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<v Speaker 1>Thirty five after the hour. Welcome back Exes and Bros.

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<v Speaker 1>Monday through Friday throughout the great state of Michigan from

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<v Speaker 1>six until nine. It went so well last time we

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<v Speaker 1>had him on, we had to dip into his knowledge again.

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<v Speaker 1>David Berman for Pro Football Network joins us to Talk NFL.

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<v Speaker 1>You can follow him on Twitter or on x at

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<v Speaker 1>David Berman b E R M AN p f N. David,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for joining us on this Wednesday. I know your

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<v Speaker 1>time is valuable because you are swamped with what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on right now, and that's a good thing. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>notice we talked about this the other day. The over

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<v Speaker 1>underwins for the Lions after winning twelve games a year

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<v Speaker 1>ago is ten and a half this year. Would you

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<v Speaker 1>take the over or the under? And why?

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and thanks for having me on. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a great introduction. Love being on. As far as the

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<v Speaker 2>over under, I would definitely take the over here. They

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<v Speaker 2>won twelve games last year. I think they're just as good,

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<v Speaker 2>if not better, this year. I think if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at the division, and I know we talked about it

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<v Speaker 2>a few weeks ago, yes, the Bears are probably better

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<v Speaker 2>than they were last year. With their quarterback and going

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<v Speaker 2>and getting some pieces. The Vikings have a rookie quarterback,

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<v Speaker 2>just like the Bears do, and I think the Packers

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<v Speaker 2>played above what they actually were last year, so I

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<v Speaker 2>think they're in the division that they're gonna win. You

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<v Speaker 2>should take the Lines to win the division. Obviously gonna

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<v Speaker 2>lay money there, so it's not just good value, but

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<v Speaker 2>I do like the over ten and a half. The

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<v Speaker 2>schedule's not tremendously hard. They have a pocket of games

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle there that'll be difficult. But I personally

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<v Speaker 2>think the Lines are the best team in the NFC,

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<v Speaker 2>or one or two of the top two teams in

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<v Speaker 2>the NFC, and I think they're gonna win eleven twelve games. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>if I was making my prediction today for the NFC,

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<v Speaker 2>I would say the road goes through Detroit. I would

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<v Speaker 2>have them as the one seed right now, with just

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<v Speaker 2>the way things are going to break down with San

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<v Speaker 2>Francisco and Philadelphia in my mind playing in toper divisions,

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<v Speaker 2>I think they have all the pieces. My one concerned

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<v Speaker 2>one and a half concerns last year in the Lions

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<v Speaker 2>was could Dan Campbell be an NFL head coach and

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<v Speaker 2>consistently take a talented team and do things with them,

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<v Speaker 2>and they did. And the other aspect of my concern

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<v Speaker 2>last year was this is just hyper Bowl. Is there's

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<v Speaker 2>the Lions, and Lions do Lions scenes, and they put

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<v Speaker 2>that to bed last year. They did you know, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a fair critique.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Bengals do Bengals things, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>wind up in the Super Bowl. So Lions. Not to

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<v Speaker 2>remind your viewers of what happened in the fourth quarter

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<v Speaker 2>of the NFC Title Game, but they weren't there, and

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<v Speaker 2>they were a quoter away from representing the NFC in

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<v Speaker 2>Vegas at the Super Bowl. And I think they're just

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<v Speaker 2>as good, if not better, this year. So I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>take I'm gonna take. I already took the over ten

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<v Speaker 2>and a half. I think they're a twelve win team,

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<v Speaker 2>just like there were last year, and I'd be surprised

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<v Speaker 2>if things would have to go wrong. And of course

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<v Speaker 2>you never know, you get your your one hit on

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<v Speaker 2>a quarterback away from being a nine win team. But

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<v Speaker 2>all things considered, I think that the best that here

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<v Speaker 2>is to take the over.

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<v Speaker 1>Ten and a half one hundred percent, with you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the label that oftentimes behooves certain organizations. Cleveland is, you

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<v Speaker 1>know you mentioned Cincinnati. Cleveland is in that conversation until

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<v Speaker 1>you can break through. That's what people feel, even though

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<v Speaker 1>players and coaches will tell you yeah, but we weren't

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<v Speaker 1>part of those teams. It doesn't matter. The fan bases

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<v Speaker 1>lived through it. But you did say something that I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of piqued my interest. You said that San Francisco

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<v Speaker 1>and Philadelphia play in tougher divisions. Give me the top,

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<v Speaker 1>give me the tough the top three toughest divisions in

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<v Speaker 1>the NFL in your mind, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think number one goes over to the AFC North, and

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think there's much debate about that. In my mind.

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<v Speaker 2>You have a division that all four teams legitimately could

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<v Speaker 2>finish five hundred to better. You know that the Steelers

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<v Speaker 2>do it every single year under Mike Tomlin. So there's that,

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<v Speaker 2>not to say that they couldn't go under five hundred.

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<v Speaker 2>You have two legit super Bowl hopeful in both more

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<v Speaker 2>who again was right there at the end to go

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<v Speaker 2>to the super Bowl was the one seed last year

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<v Speaker 2>the Bengals with a healthy Joe Burrow or a super

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<v Speaker 2>Bowl team as we saw a couple of years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>And you mentioned the Browns. The Browns have the talent

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<v Speaker 2>to go to the Super Bowl. Browns do Brown things,

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<v Speaker 2>and they don't do it. And they still have question

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<v Speaker 2>marks at quarterback. And if you were lying on last

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<v Speaker 2>year Joe Flacco taking him to the Promised Land, you

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<v Speaker 2>have a problem. But across the board, that Cleveland team

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<v Speaker 2>has talent to get there. So I mean it hasn't

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<v Speaker 2>happened yet. But if I was going to pick one

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<v Speaker 2>division for all four teams to make the playoffs, it

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<v Speaker 2>would be AFC North because they're that talented, and you

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<v Speaker 2>know somebody's gonna get injured, or somebody's gonna have an

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<v Speaker 2>off season, whether you know it's Lamar Jackson or Sean

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<v Speaker 2>Watson or Burrow again or the Steelers are to me,

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<v Speaker 2>the least talent team in that division, So one team

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<v Speaker 2>will fall off. Last year was the Bengals. But to me,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the best division in football. Number two, I was

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<v Speaker 2>prepared to answer the best one. I was thinking two

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<v Speaker 2>and three. I would probably go to the NFC West,

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<v Speaker 2>San Francisco being the defending NFC champions, Rams made the

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<v Speaker 2>playoffs last year. Seattle was right there at the end

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<v Speaker 2>last year in Arizona, is going to be better than

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<v Speaker 2>they were last year with a healthy Kyler Murray. So

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<v Speaker 2>I do like the NFC West. If I were to

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<v Speaker 2>pick a third division thinking, I'd probably choose the AC

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<v Speaker 2>East because you've got three legit playoff teams in Buffalo,

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<v Speaker 2>New York, and Miami. Again, New York will do New

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<v Speaker 2>York things, Jets or Jets. They have the talent, they

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<v Speaker 2>have the defense, and they have a three time MVP

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<v Speaker 2>candidate back there, so wouldn't stun me if all. And

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, you have the Bills who won the

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<v Speaker 2>division one hundred straight years, so it would not surprise

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<v Speaker 2>me to see three teams come out of the AFC East.

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<v Speaker 2>So those, to me, would be the three best divisions

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<v Speaker 2>in football.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a really good answer. We're talking with David Bierman

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<v Speaker 1>before Football Network here on Exis and Bros. I guess

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<v Speaker 1>I value the NFC North a little bit more as

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<v Speaker 1>I live it a little bit closer. I need to

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<v Speaker 1>open my mind a little bit more. The NFC West.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think I quite looked at it that way

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<v Speaker 1>because I see Seattle as a bit of a pushover

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<v Speaker 1>in the Rams, somewhat overachieving a year ago. But look,

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<v Speaker 1>you can make the exact same argument for some of

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<v Speaker 1>the teams in the NFC North. I wonder this when

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<v Speaker 1>you are in your conversations with players and coaches and

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<v Speaker 1>general managers in your career, what's the biggest adjustment for

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<v Speaker 1>a team when they go from being the hunter to

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<v Speaker 1>the hunted, Like the Lions will have to prepare for

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<v Speaker 1>this coming season.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's expectations because last year the Lions did

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<v Speaker 2>not have the Yes, sure they were going to be better,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were better the year before, but no one

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<v Speaker 2>expected the Lions to win twelve games and make the

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<v Speaker 2>postseason in a way that they were a quarter away

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<v Speaker 2>to winning the NFC. I think reminding your team that

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<v Speaker 2>now people are running for you, they're going to take

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<v Speaker 2>you seriously. Because you circle every game gets circle on

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<v Speaker 2>the schedule for some reason, there's seventeen games on there.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone's circling something. And for the last twenty five to

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years, the Lions were the team that's that's a W.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a W, that's a W. The Lions are no

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<v Speaker 2>longer a W. Like you look at the Lions, you're like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, that's gonna be a tough one. Might lose

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<v Speaker 2>that one. You know how many straight things giving days were,

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<v Speaker 2>You're like, all right, just pick against the Lions. You

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<v Speaker 2>know that's the easy one. It's no longer the case.

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<v Speaker 2>Not only did the Lions win twelve games plus year,

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<v Speaker 2>but we all know listeners know royally shrewed against Dallas,

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<v Speaker 2>so chop that one up to another win. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you actually look at their losses, they were in every

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<v Speaker 2>single game but two. I know they got blown out

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<v Speaker 2>in Seattle. Was it trying to remember? There were two

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<v Speaker 2>games that they were not in. They might have been

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<v Speaker 2>the Ravens game Ultimore, Right, you lost one in overtime

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<v Speaker 2>in Seattle and you got screwed by Dallas, or you're

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<v Speaker 2>the one seed and you're hosting San Francisco instead. So

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<v Speaker 2>the expectation of what there is. And I think the

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<v Speaker 2>biggest difference between this Lion's team and last year's Lions team,

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<v Speaker 2>which can only help them, is Dan Camp grew as

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<v Speaker 2>a head coach last year, so now he's no longer

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<v Speaker 2>just the guy who buys kneecaps. He's actually a legitimate

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<v Speaker 2>head coach. And I think he learned, you hope he

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<v Speaker 2>learned some lessons from now I'm just gonna go for

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<v Speaker 2>it on fourth down, just you know, Ran just gonna go, go,

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<v Speaker 2>gonna go. He will reality a little bit, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>and take some less chances and if he gets it

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<v Speaker 2>worked for them last year for the most part, I

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<v Speaker 2>think if he takes it a little bit more conservative

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<v Speaker 2>this team, that's even better.

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<v Speaker 1>Why would you do that when that's what brought you success?

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<v Speaker 1>Like I use this example all the time. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>reason certain managers and coaches and players do things. It

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<v Speaker 1>got them to where they are, and everybody needs to

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<v Speaker 1>make adjustments. Granted, but if that's who he is, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's who his team thinks he is and knows that

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<v Speaker 1>they are, and that's part of their identity, why would

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<v Speaker 1>you change.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying change completely. I'm not saying go back

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<v Speaker 2>to being, you know, an ultra concernvative coach that punts

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<v Speaker 2>when it's fourth and two from the forty five yard line.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying to you that I like the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that he's aggressive. Mike McDaniel is that way in Miami

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<v Speaker 2>where the guy has gone forward more times than the

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<v Speaker 2>team's ever done before because he's looking at the intangibles

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<v Speaker 2>of field position everything. I'm saying, don't be spiteful and

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<v Speaker 2>go for it on fourth and three from your own

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<v Speaker 2>twenty There are some ways where you can be all right,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be aggressive. I trust my team to

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<v Speaker 2>make this. I'm going to go for two because it's

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<v Speaker 2>the play that I call is better than the thirty

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<v Speaker 2>five yard extra point, and it puts us in a

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<v Speaker 2>better position. I'm fine with all that, but let's chill

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<v Speaker 2>on the whole. It's on my own twenty five yard line.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go for it on fourth down because

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<v Speaker 2>I got screwed on third down type thing like that's

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<v Speaker 2>on tilt. That's the poker version of I just had

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<v Speaker 2>a bad beat. I'm just gonna I'm gonna call this

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<v Speaker 2>next Haan no matter what I'm down on that. He's

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<v Speaker 2>smart in the way that, hey, this advances my team

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<v Speaker 2>in a better way and play the percentages and I

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<v Speaker 2>love it aggression. I love Mike mcdale's aggression. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's the new way of the NFL. But I just

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't go for it on fourth down every time. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm playing Madden on the computer, I do it

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<v Speaker 2>because it's just a video game. But you know, somewhere

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle. There's a good good media because you're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna lose a game doing that.

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<v Speaker 1>I will preface this next question with this obvious observation.

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<v Speaker 1>Any rankings are very subjective and too oftentimes we get

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<v Speaker 1>wrapped up in one position in football, and that's the

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<v Speaker 1>quarterback position. That said, NFL dot Com recently came out

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<v Speaker 1>with a top one hundred players list in which the

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<v Speaker 1>players voted, and Jared Goff was eleventh on the quarterback list.

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<v Speaker 1>Guys like CJ. Stroud, brock Purdy to a tongue of

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<v Speaker 1>Aloa are ahead of them. That's again subjective by the players.

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<v Speaker 1>Some players, I'm sure, vote with their heart more than

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<v Speaker 1>their head and vote for their buddies more than they

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<v Speaker 1>do for their adversaries. With that said, though, what does

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<v Speaker 1>Jared Goff need to prove? Considering a couple of years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>it was all about, well, you know what, he's not

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<v Speaker 1>good enough to take a team anywhere, and then the

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<v Speaker 1>last year people didn't believe in him because he had

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<v Speaker 1>quote end quote too many weapons, which doesn't appear to

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<v Speaker 1>be the case for anybody else in football. When it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to this criteria, what does he need to do

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<v Speaker 1>to be considered a top ten quarterback for those doubters

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<v Speaker 1>out there.

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<v Speaker 2>To me, he is. He can thenced me last year.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the top ten quarterback. So whatever he needs to

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<v Speaker 2>do here what he did for me. Again, this is

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<v Speaker 2>a player list. I don't know how he is with

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<v Speaker 2>the players. I don't know if the players like him

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<v Speaker 2>or don't like him. The whole argument he has too

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<v Speaker 2>many weapons. I think it's just a bunch of ball.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, they say the same thing about too well, well,

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<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't be that great if he didn't have what

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<v Speaker 2>someone has to get him the ball, Like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Tyreek Hill doesn't have the ball glued on his hands

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<v Speaker 2>when he leased the huddle, wants to get it. I

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<v Speaker 2>I think off of the top ten quarterback. Yeah, these

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<v Speaker 2>rankings or rankings are fun. It's offseason. Fidern PFN had

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<v Speaker 2>their top one hundred, which to me biased of course,

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<v Speaker 2>But pfn's top one hundred, if you want to go

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<v Speaker 2>look at it at Profootballnetwork dot com, is significantly better

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<v Speaker 2>than the NFL's version. Now, granted, it's players voting versus

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<v Speaker 2>NFL analysts on the PFN side, Like, I love Tyreek

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<v Speaker 2>Hill as best as the next one, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have them. PFN didn't have them. Number one, it was

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<v Speaker 2>great for our site since we have a Dolphins beat

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<v Speaker 2>reporter and you know, had to wake them up on

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<v Speaker 2>a Friday night to go ahead and get out there

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<v Speaker 2>and do an article on it. But at the end

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<v Speaker 2>of the day, you know, it's subjective, as you said,

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<v Speaker 2>rankings or rankings, and I would trust NFL analysts and

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<v Speaker 2>media members. I bet you if the media voted Jared

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<v Speaker 2>Goff top ten quarterback. Yeah, I don't know how much credency.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what players voted, but how much credency

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<v Speaker 2>giving to players who think about it they're on the

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<v Speaker 2>field on Sunday. There may be eighty percent of the

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<v Speaker 2>players voting may have never seen Jared Goff before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, now that's a great point, it really is. We're

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<v Speaker 1>talking with David Berman of Pro Football Network. You'll follow

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<v Speaker 1>him on Twitter on x at David Beer in PFN

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<v Speaker 1>speaking of your website, and you go to Pro Footballnetwork

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<v Speaker 1>dot com the front page as the forty nine ers

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<v Speaker 1>already facing consequences of brock Perty's looming extension with Brandon

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<v Speaker 1>Ayuk dilemma, Dallas Robinson wrote it, it's a really good

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<v Speaker 1>article on Pro Footballnetwork dot com. Where do you envision

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<v Speaker 1>are you going? Number one? And number two? How much

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<v Speaker 1>of a disturbing look? And a factor is this if

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<v Speaker 1>you want to believe or disbelieve that the Niners of

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<v Speaker 1>the class of the NFC.

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<v Speaker 2>I personally don't think I used to go anywhere, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to be a shock to many, But I

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<v Speaker 2>think the Niners are just playing games here because they

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<v Speaker 2>don't have any intention of getting rid of him. He's

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<v Speaker 2>not happy and wants the extension. They're not paying him

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<v Speaker 2>because they're eventually going to have to pay mister irrelevant

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<v Speaker 2>who's now very relevant, a whole lot of money in

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<v Speaker 2>the coming years. And they've hit the pot of gold

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<v Speaker 2>with brock Perty, but they're going to have to pay

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<v Speaker 2>the piper at some point, and they don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>pay Brandon I. You the money that all these other

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<v Speaker 2>guys are getting in rightfully. So I don't think Brandon

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<v Speaker 2>I is in the same class as the Tyreek Hill

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<v Speaker 2>and Justin Jefferson and Ceedee Lamm. That being said, they

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<v Speaker 2>have no other than him wanting to hold out and

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<v Speaker 2>all that other mumbo jumbo. They gave him a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of team that he doesn't want to go to I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's no coincidence that the New England Patriots are on

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<v Speaker 2>that list and he's like, I don't want to go there.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're just playing games with them right now.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a who's gonna blame first ten scenario, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to affect them because they're not going to be

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<v Speaker 2>as good without him. We've seen it in the past

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<v Speaker 2>when he doesn't play or in DEEPO do us the

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<v Speaker 2>play and Christian McCaffrey is already battling injuries and the

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<v Speaker 2>season hasn't started yet, and hey, your quarterback is the

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and fifty something pick in the draft.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I like Rockford, but there are question marks there.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I also want to preface it by saying that I

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<v Speaker 2>say that every single year about the San Francisco forty

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<v Speaker 2>nine ers, and every single year they shove it wreck

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<v Speaker 2>back to me and go ahead and go back to

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<v Speaker 2>the NFC title game. I just I always have a

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<v Speaker 2>hard time believing that Kyle Shanahan going to make the

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<v Speaker 2>right call. They have a superstar quarterback in the last

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<v Speaker 2>pick of the draft, and McCaffrey's going to stay healthy,

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<v Speaker 2>and the wide receivers are going to be happy. That

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<v Speaker 2>being said, they have one of the top five defenses

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<v Speaker 2>of the NFL, and those players I just mentioned are

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<v Speaker 2>all extremely talented, and Kyle Shanahan is among the best

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<v Speaker 2>regular season head coaches. And I say regular season for

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<v Speaker 2>a reason. But there are question marks there. And it's not,

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<v Speaker 2>like we mentioned in a few minutes. It's not like

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<v Speaker 2>their division is crappy, so I would I'd be very

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<v Speaker 2>careful when playing the San Francisco forty nine ers.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a good point, it really is. I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>a team that has an awful lot of talent, But

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<v Speaker 1>you wonder why they have so much inner turmoil. Why

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<v Speaker 1>is Trent Williams holding out, Aux holding out In the past,

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<v Speaker 1>Deebo Samuel has had issues. It goes back a lot deeper.

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<v Speaker 1>You wonder if it's the team wins despite the way

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<v Speaker 1>the team or the organization does business overall, is there

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<v Speaker 1>something there that just is it right? And how they

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<v Speaker 1>deal with players in general.

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<v Speaker 2>You also have to keep in mind this team traded

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<v Speaker 2>up in the draft or Trey Lance, so somehow mainly

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<v Speaker 2>another team in the NFL who trades all the way

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<v Speaker 2>up to get a quarterback who's a complete bust and

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<v Speaker 2>then goes to Super Bowls. So I don't know how

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<v Speaker 2>John Lynch wakes up in the morning. He's made multiple

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<v Speaker 2>wrong calls he had. The team consistently wins and goes

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<v Speaker 2>to Super Bowls despite the fact that they mean. Trading

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<v Speaker 2>up to the number three pick to get Trey Lance

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<v Speaker 2>is a career ender for most gms, and this guy

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<v Speaker 2>just rebounds and gets Rock Purdy as the last pick

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<v Speaker 2>of the draft. So they're doing something right by doing

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<v Speaker 2>something wrong, and I can't figure it out, which is

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<v Speaker 2>why I always say them and I'm always wrong about it.

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<v Speaker 2>But they get it done despite their relationship or lack

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<v Speaker 2>of there for the players and some really bad decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>Any other team who trades their entire draft to get

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<v Speaker 2>Trey Lance and it doesn't pan out doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 2>job two years later, and this guy's in the Super Bowl.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's plump your tires a little bit. Pro Football Network

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<v Speaker 1>dot com, what are you guys coming for those who

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<v Speaker 1>visit your outstanding website.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we got covers live coverage from three camps all

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<v Speaker 2>week long, Cincinnati, Miami, and New England. Beat writers there.

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<v Speaker 2>We also have starting this weekend fantasy football content. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to rule there. We go the content each of

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<v Speaker 2>the next four weekends leading up to Labor Day weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>We have fantasy profiles going out there. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be your home for fantasy content. They're on profooballnetwork dot

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<v Speaker 2>com and we also got season previews coming up as

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<v Speaker 2>well as wall to wall camp covering, so we'll be

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<v Speaker 2>on top of the news as it happens. They're on

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<v Speaker 2>Profooball Network.

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<v Speaker 1>Dude, it never ends for you and your staff, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's what people love most about Pro Footballnetwork dot Com

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<v Speaker 1>and following you on x as well at David Berman PFN. David,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks again, we appreciate it very much. We know you.

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<v Speaker 1>We've we've bothered you a couple of times here in

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<v Speaker 1>the last few weeks, but it's great having you on.

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<v Speaker 1>It's great getting your insight. Keep up the great work

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<v Speaker 1>and have a great weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks guys, Safe up there.