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Speaker 5: live at seven ninety Louisville dot Com a lot of
Speaker 5: talk about this Louisville basketball team as they continue their
Speaker 5: winning streak last night with a dominant win ninety eight
Speaker 5: to seventy three over SMU. It's a performance that I
Speaker 5: don't know if we should have seen it come in
Speaker 5: as far as the amount of points they scored and
Speaker 5: the records that were broke. Taekwondan single game record for
Speaker 5: three pointers made in a game broke last night by
Speaker 5: Rain Smith, who made ten of them, and then Francisco Garcia,
Speaker 5: which is kind of like a trivia question that would
Speaker 5: be good because I don't think a lot of people
Speaker 5: would guess that Cisco would be the one that has
Speaker 5: the record, but he did sixteen assists. But he doesn't
Speaker 5: have the record anymore because now it belongs to Chuckie Hepburn.
Speaker 5: So this louisvill basketball team is rolling. They're playing at
Speaker 5: a level that I really didn't know possible a month ago,
Speaker 5: and I know as a louis A fan, I'm not
Speaker 5: alone and enjoying it. So let's talk some louis of
Speaker 5: basketball with C. L.
Speaker 2: Brown.
Speaker 5: The Courier Journal cl been a few weeks since we chatted.
Speaker 5: Where the hell did this team come from? I mean,
Speaker 5: I can't imagine you would have you would have guessed
Speaker 5: that when we talked late January that this team would
Speaker 5: be in this position, not only with this record, but
Speaker 5: they look pretty damn good.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, this role that they're on right now,
Speaker 6: I don't think anyone outside of the locker room really
Speaker 6: saw coming to this extent, you know where they're winning
Speaker 6: basically every game.
Speaker 2: By double digits, even including on the road, with the
Speaker 2: exception that will win that pit. But I think it's
Speaker 2: probably been been kind of bubbling because they have played
Speaker 2: with the consistency of effort. I feel like this whole year,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, you can't really point to
Speaker 2: I don't really see a letdown game now.
Speaker 7: Maybe maybe you could say the Eastern game where where,
Speaker 7: But that was That's always a tough game coming out
Speaker 7: after Christmas break.
Speaker 2: You know, you haven't had the same practice schedule, and
Speaker 2: you've got to spend time with your family. It's everything
Speaker 2: that kind of goes with it. So you're not going
Speaker 2: to be running on all most of the time coming
Speaker 2: off of that game.
Speaker 8: So outside of that, like I hadn't really seen a
Speaker 8: spot where I was like, where's their energy, where's their effort?
Speaker 8: You know, that's been consistent with this team, and it's
Speaker 8: certainly helped translate into this nine game winning streak.
Speaker 5: There on no doubt about it, And I'm totally with you.
Speaker 5: I don't feel like there's anything they've done at any
Speaker 5: point where you can you know, if they I think
Speaker 5: if they come out just completely flat, don't look ready
Speaker 5: to play, and they're not bringing the level of energy
Speaker 5: and intensity like that would be the first time, because
Speaker 5: I think throughout the entire year they've been been pretty
Speaker 5: good at that.
Speaker 1: But but I feel like.
Speaker 5: Right around the beginning of this month when they when
Speaker 5: they played North Carolina following that ekau win, I just
Speaker 5: there was a little bit of an extra edge to them.
Speaker 5: They were a little bit more. I mean, again, I
Speaker 5: hate emphasizing that there was a flip switched because it
Speaker 5: makes it seem as if they weren't playing hard before
Speaker 5: we got to January, but something was just a little
Speaker 5: bit different, and they're now not just playing well and
Speaker 5: winning and clearly putting themselves in a great position to
Speaker 5: potentially be in the INSAA Tournament. I'm starting to kind
Speaker 5: of wonder, Okay, what is the ceiling for this team?
Speaker 5: Certainly they're not the best team in the country, and
Speaker 5: and right now with the good with the wins they
Speaker 5: have in the streak, their best win is still not
Speaker 5: you know, an elite win that's gonna stand out as
Speaker 5: a real, big, big resume type win. But I'm just
Speaker 5: thinking the way they're I'm not really thinking about the opponent.
Speaker 5: I just think with the way they're playing as far
Speaker 5: as defense, and now they've got guys playing with a
Speaker 5: ton of confidence knocking down shots.
Speaker 1: I mean, are you of.
Speaker 5: The belief that this team is And I'm sure it's
Speaker 5: a product of two things. One they're playing well and
Speaker 5: also they're taking advantage of an acc that's not as
Speaker 5: good as it once was. But you had to guess
Speaker 5: between the two, which is it more about the fact
Speaker 5: that they've just turned it up a notch or more
Speaker 5: so the competition.
Speaker 9: For sure that it's all about what U of L
Speaker 9: is doing, not necessarily the competition that they're playing, just
Speaker 9: just because I feel like they have a different level
Speaker 9: of confidence now than they had, you know, mid December,
Speaker 9: when they took some lumps.
Speaker 2: The three game losing streak, losing four out of five
Speaker 2: during that stretch, you know, with Kentucky, Duke Ovis and Oklahoma.
Speaker 2: So I think that has, if anything, that is kind
Speaker 2: of the reason behind it because they all coming into
Speaker 2: the year, they didn't really know how their roles were
Speaker 2: gonna be, you know what I mean. They didn't know
Speaker 2: how they were gonna fit with each other, They didn't
Speaker 2: know who they could depend on for X Y Z.
Speaker 2: I think we talked about the way back when when
Speaker 2: they went to the Bahamas, the Battle for Atlantis, and
Speaker 2: I look back at those three games that when I
Speaker 2: feel like Chucky Hepburn kind of emerged as the leader
Speaker 2: of the team and took more, took more of a
Speaker 2: burden in terms of the offensive production that he had,
Speaker 2: and I feel like he is the guy that sess
Speaker 2: it tone for the whole team and once that kind
Speaker 2: of pecking order worked its way out, because I still
Speaker 2: feel like I remember the Tennessee game where to me,
Speaker 2: it looked like guys were looking at each other like
Speaker 2: who's going to be the guy to step forward? You
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Tennessee had got on a little
Speaker 2: run early in that game, and it just didn't seem
Speaker 2: like anybody was. And this is not discrediting the players.
Speaker 2: It's just like they were figuring out on the fly,
Speaker 2: and we were watching it in real time as they
Speaker 2: figured it out. So but I felt like no one
Speaker 2: really knew who was going to be the guy. They
Speaker 2: were all kind of deferring to each other. But I
Speaker 2: felt like once Chucky asserted himself and they kind of
Speaker 2: everyone kind of fell into their roles and responsibilities. I
Speaker 2: feel like that that's what's helped his team to kind
Speaker 2: of takeoff. They have confidence in that now, and I
Speaker 2: dare say they have a swagger about them now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, they do. I mean I think I think you're
Speaker 5: spot on. I think they're very sure of themselves. Their
Speaker 5: roles have been identified, and even before injuries happen, they
Speaker 5: were still feeling each other out, kind of trying to
Speaker 5: get comfortable, which you really like, can't You can't do
Speaker 5: that until you get into a season and you start
Speaker 5: playing games. I mean, it's one thing to play in
Speaker 5: the offseason and play in the summer, and those games
Speaker 5: they played in the Bahamas. But yeah, I mean they've
Speaker 5: kind of just rounded into having a real identity and
Speaker 5: everybody understands their role, and they've got good balance to
Speaker 5: where if there is somebody that has an off night,
Speaker 5: which has happened recently, you got Javon Hadley going for
Speaker 5: thirty two. Rain Smith has been a guy that's ledging
Speaker 5: scoring because he's just got insanely hot. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 5: it does seem as if last night, specifically, just because
Speaker 5: of how dominant they were and the records that were broke,
Speaker 5: it seems as if they're starting to get some more
Speaker 5: attention than just you know, they're taking advantage of the
Speaker 5: a SEC. I think people are kind of realizing, hey,
Speaker 5: maybe this team actually could be somebody that could make
Speaker 5: it out of the of the first weekend of the
Speaker 5: NCAA tournament. But Seal Brown is our guest joining us
Speaker 5: here on Sports Talk seven ninety the ACC. How many
Speaker 5: teams do you do you think can get in? I mean,
Speaker 5: I think there's there's there's maybe five in the mix
Speaker 5: right now. One that is sure to get in, Duke,
Speaker 5: and then Louisville looks to be in great shape. But
Speaker 5: after that you got some bubble teams. I mean, I
Speaker 5: guess I'm asking you to predict the future here, but
Speaker 5: I mean, what's the realistic chances of this of this
Speaker 5: league getting four to five teams in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like playing space. I got three of the
Speaker 2: possible right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think if the season member right now is being Duke, Louisville, Clinton,
Speaker 2: and wake Forest would be kind of that bubble team
Speaker 2: that got in if they ended actually ended now, Carolina
Speaker 2: would probably still get in.
Speaker 1: On the right side right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're really looking looking at projecting this going forward.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have them in because I feel like they're
Speaker 2: going to lose some more. I just don't think. I
Speaker 2: don't think they have it. I don't think Hubert Davis
Speaker 2: has the right kind of roster. They have glaring holes.
Speaker 2: Their offenses is kind of behind schedule, and I think
Speaker 2: that's gonna end up being meaning that the a SEC
Speaker 2: is only going to get four teams in. And unlike
Speaker 2: past years, I mean these recent past what four seasons
Speaker 2: where the a SEC ended up with someone in the
Speaker 2: final four. I don't know that I see that this year,
Speaker 2: but I mean we'll see, you know, comes down the
Speaker 2: matchups and everything in the tournament. But I don't even
Speaker 2: think Dukes as well as they're playing right now.
Speaker 10: And it really hurts Duke because he's playing in this
Speaker 10: water down ACC isn't really going to do anything for
Speaker 10: them when they get in the postseason and have to
Speaker 10: play one.
Speaker 2: Possession games and tight games. You know, we don't know
Speaker 2: if they've learned from earlier in the year, you know,
Speaker 2: until they're back in that situation, and I'm not sure
Speaker 2: they're going to be tested like that in the ACC.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean it's a wild thing to think
Speaker 5: about because it's just it. I mean, it's a scenario
Speaker 5: I never envisioned when it comes to ACC basketball, and
Speaker 5: I think Duke has really good pieces, a lot of
Speaker 5: young talent. I think Shire went out and got specific
Speaker 5: guys from the portal that may not be big names,
Speaker 5: but man, they fit exactly what he wants. So I'm
Speaker 5: still bullish on this Duke team, but you're right, it
Speaker 5: can't be healthy for him to go through two and
Speaker 5: a half months of play where they're really not getting
Speaker 5: I mean, look, if Louisville ends up being the best
Speaker 5: team that Duke played from January on, I mean, that's
Speaker 5: as well as louis was playing right now. They weren't
Speaker 5: playing that good I mean when they played Duke. So
Speaker 5: I mean it's kind of scary. Let me throw this
Speaker 5: act you. Casey Jacobson, who does a former Stanford player
Speaker 5: who now works for Fox Sports. Duke came up during
Speaker 5: their halftime show the other night during one of the
Speaker 5: Big Ten games, and he said something that I thought,
Speaker 5: Wait a second, that's crazy, this is nonsense. But then
Speaker 5: I'm like, wait a second. As crazy as that sounds like,
Speaker 5: he may be right that Duke's kind of going through
Speaker 5: the Gonzaga stuff this year.
Speaker 1: I mean, the rest of the ACC is not.
Speaker 5: As bad as I guess, the the WCC that Gonzaga
Speaker 5: plays in, but still Duke is believed to be an
Speaker 5: elite team. But they're going to go a long time
Speaker 5: without really being challenged. I mean, you've covered the ACC
Speaker 5: for a long time, obviously with your roots in North Carolina.
Speaker 5: You know what this league has been historically in college basketball.
Speaker 5: I mean, I know I've asked you this many times
Speaker 5: in our conversations, but like, how did we get here?
Speaker 5: I know coaches retired and clearly that happens, but this
Speaker 5: is this is crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right, it is crazy.
Speaker 11: I think some of it has to do with the
Speaker 11: coaching hires that were made. You basically replaced Hall of
Speaker 11: famers with unproven and untested guys, even John Shire, you know,
Speaker 11: I mean they got to the elite a last year.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, this is so backhanded. I apologize, I
Speaker 2: like and I like Duke.
Speaker 1: But I love.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if if my guy doesn't go down, now,
Speaker 2: I'm forgetting his name to guard for Houston last year
Speaker 2: who got hurt in that game. If he doesn't go
Speaker 2: down I felt like Houston wins that game easily. It
Speaker 2: was like they played Jamal Jamal Shed yep. You know
Speaker 2: he twisted his ankle in the middle of that Sweet
Speaker 2: sixteen game and goes on a win by three. But
Speaker 2: and then they lost to in some state, an eleven seed.
Speaker 2: You know that also beat him in the ACENC tournament.
Speaker 2: So John Shires untested. Hubert Davis. You look at the
Speaker 2: course of his three seasons of Carolina. Yes, they got
Speaker 2: to the final four in the National Championship in his
Speaker 2: first year, but really the regular seasons has had three
Speaker 2: bad regular seasons. His first year wasn't good until the
Speaker 2: very end when they came on in February. The second
Speaker 2: year they missed the tournament. That year was legit. They
Speaker 2: earned the number one seed when they see regular season,
Speaker 2: and this year is another year where it's looking like
Speaker 2: bubble too. So you know, for those three red Autrey
Speaker 2: Syracuse is struggling this year. It's just, you know, no
Speaker 2: one seems to be able to get George Tech in
Speaker 2: order and back playing at a high level. Wake Forest.
Speaker 2: As much as I love Steve Forbes in his time there,
Speaker 2: they haven't been back to the tournament, you know since
Speaker 2: what was it, twenty seventeen under Danny Manning. Like all
Speaker 2: of these things happening, and of course, you know, for
Speaker 2: Tony Bennett to retire at the beginning of the season
Speaker 2: and Virginmy can't reset at that point, you know, so
Speaker 2: that this year was just going to be a wash.
Speaker 2: They didn't have a lot of talent to begin with.
Speaker 2: So all of those things happening at one time has
Speaker 2: just left this league decimated. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we're seeing all of that play out and how bad
Speaker 2: they've been in non conference play.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Louisville, you know, they did something. So
Speaker 5: in fact, Louis Louisville made a higher that made sense
Speaker 5: and was successful early on when they moved on, when
Speaker 5: they moved to Chris Mack and then obviously that ended poorly,
Speaker 5: and then they brought in Kenny Payne, and that that
Speaker 5: kind of higher that that Kenny Payne was as far
Speaker 5: as a guy that the biggest reason he was even
Speaker 5: mentioned is because of his connection to the school. You're
Speaker 5: seeing that elsewhere and I mean, I think Red Autrey,
Speaker 5: that's that's not working out really at all. I mean
Speaker 5: with Hubert Davis, I mean it's it's clearly much more
Speaker 5: successful than others have been, but for the Carolina standard,
Speaker 5: not so much Carolina's North Carolina.
Speaker 2: Uh So.
Speaker 5: I mean I think the ACC basketball programs, if they
Speaker 5: go out and get a guy that has a similar
Speaker 5: profile of Pat Kelsey when he was hired at Louisville,
Speaker 5: I feel like the resources are there to where those
Speaker 5: kind of coaches. You never know if it's going to
Speaker 5: work out or not, but they should be able to
Speaker 5: have to have some success. But I feel like these
Speaker 5: hires here in the next couple of years are going
Speaker 5: to be really vital to this league, you know, getting
Speaker 5: some credibility back. It's not just about where you stand
Speaker 5: in regards to the power leagues. I mean, this league
Speaker 5: is at a level that I never thought possible, and
Speaker 5: I'm sure I'm hopeful if this is kind of a
Speaker 5: one off as far as where they are right now.
Speaker 1: But you know, let me give you an example. I think,
Speaker 1: and I think I mentioned.
Speaker 5: This to you and Charlotte at the ACC basketball media day,
Speaker 5: like Michael Shrewsbury was a guy that I feel like
Speaker 5: that neat like that working out would have been a
Speaker 5: good sign that the ACC can get back. I mean,
Speaker 5: it's just one team, but he's somebody that took over
Speaker 5: a job at Notre Dame that I feel like, despite
Speaker 5: it being a football school, you can win there. And
Speaker 5: last year they showed signs. This year they're they're not
Speaker 5: very good. So I don't know. It just makes me
Speaker 5: sad because the league is of course, you know, and
Speaker 5: I'm sure it makes you even more sad than me
Speaker 5: because of you know, you followed it longer than I have.
Speaker 5: But I just I find myself at times, you know,
Speaker 5: hearing the the the pundits talk about bracketology that kind
Speaker 5: of stuff, and I want to be defensive, and you know, think,
Speaker 5: wait a second, you're talking about the ACC here, and
Speaker 5: then I'm like, well wait a second, you're right, Like
Speaker 5: it's it's bad yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I do think I do think Shrewsbury is
Speaker 2: ultimately gonna work out there. It definitely hurt when yea,
Speaker 2: I love them Burt in their guard went down and
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't remember how many gangs he missed,
Speaker 2: But it's tough to basically you lose your best player.
Speaker 2: Didn't have to try and compensate.
Speaker 1: It's just a second.
Speaker 2: You're already working with a thin line. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 2: thin margin of error there, notre Dame. But but to
Speaker 2: your point, you know, I think the main thing is
Speaker 2: that a lot of schools need to know there are
Speaker 2: other talented guys who didn't go to your school who
Speaker 2: would work at your school. And and you know, I'm
Speaker 2: looking dead at Carolina and Duke and Syracuse when when
Speaker 2: I say those kinds of things, I do think it's
Speaker 2: it's great when it works out when you have a
Speaker 2: Roy Williams who who loves his album Mater and and
Speaker 2: could return and keep it where you knows as a
Speaker 2: historic we've been. But taking a chance on Hubert, you know,
Speaker 2: who hadn't had any head coaching experience, I think we're
Speaker 2: seeing it. We're seeing how it plays out. It's it's
Speaker 2: It's a gamble that I don't know if it's worth taking,
Speaker 2: and I think I think the ACC is paying for
Speaker 2: that those kind of decisions right now.
Speaker 5: So Hubert Davis again did make it to a Final four,
Speaker 5: and really, I mean, he could easily have a national
Speaker 5: championship had they played a little better in that second
Speaker 5: half against Kansas, And that has value. But I mean,
Speaker 5: how are I mean not to say, you've got your
Speaker 5: your finger on the pulse of the entire North Carolina
Speaker 5: fan base, but I know you are connected there much
Speaker 5: more than most. I mean, are they even talking about
Speaker 5: like wanting a different coach. He's one of their own.
Speaker 5: I just don't feel like they would make a move.
Speaker 5: But what the hell do I know? Maybe they maybe
Speaker 5: they would like is his job in any way? Like
Speaker 5: if they missed the tournament this year, I mean, will
Speaker 5: there be talk about people wanting a change?
Speaker 2: Oh? The talk is? Are the talk started? Okay? They
Speaker 2: took over the talk, you know, in the middle of
Speaker 2: that first season, in the middle of the regular season,
Speaker 2: when they not only lost the Marquee games, they lost Biggs.
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember I was out at the game
Speaker 2: when they played Kentucky in Vegas, and uh, I can't
Speaker 2: remember the exact some of these exact stats, but it
Speaker 2: was like they got Kentucky got what they wanted in
Speaker 2: the lane. Like it was an embarrassing loss, you know.
Speaker 2: And the talk has always been early on.
Speaker 12: That he wasn't ready for the game, he wasn't ready
Speaker 12: for this position, and maybe they should have gone with
Speaker 12: even wes Miller, who had at least been a head
Speaker 12: coach before and is a Carolina guy and you know,
Speaker 12: is an up and comer. I'm not sure that wes
Speaker 12: Miller is in any conversations right now because since Annetti
Speaker 12: is is kind of brutal to watch offensively currently.
Speaker 2: But but still like the talk has been there, you know,
Speaker 2: in terms of his hubret this right is the right
Speaker 2: guy for the job. So it has picked back up.
Speaker 2: I don't think that they and a position right now
Speaker 2: where they would make a move this season, even if
Speaker 2: Carolina doesn't make the tournament. But I do think if
Speaker 2: they don't make the tournament, then it's it's, you know,
Speaker 2: a make or break season next year, for for real,
Speaker 2: with who.
Speaker 1: Do they call with Carolina if that happens, who's the
Speaker 1: phone again?
Speaker 5: And who knows? There's there could be a name at
Speaker 5: that time. That's that's you know, that's not even talked
Speaker 5: about now.
Speaker 1: But like, who do you? Who? Do you? Where do you?
Speaker 1: What direction do you think they'd go in?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, without getting too deep in the weeds here,
Speaker 2: I think there's a bit of a power struggle at
Speaker 2: Carolina right now between the board of Trustees at least
Speaker 2: some members of the board of Trustees and the athletic
Speaker 2: director of Bubby Cunningham. And if Bubba Cunningham is still around,
Speaker 2: then I would imagine they still try and keep.
Speaker 1: It in the family.
Speaker 2: Carolina guy, and you've got you know, you've got some
Speaker 2: people out there. I think Jerry Stackhouse's name would come
Speaker 2: back up, even though you know, you could look at
Speaker 2: his time at Vans and say that's a failure, But
Speaker 2: that's Mandy. You know, it's a lot tough for to
Speaker 2: get talent there and you know, get the kind of
Speaker 2: players he would have any problem getting.
Speaker 5: And he's really well respected in basketball as far as
Speaker 5: as far as the coaching fraternity.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and you know so so I'm sure, well not,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I think Bubba would still try and keep
Speaker 2: it in house. But if somehow Bubba gets forced out
Speaker 2: by the board of trustees or decides he no longer
Speaker 2: wants to deal with any of that stuff right now,
Speaker 2: then I think they would go out outside. And you know,
Speaker 2: obviously we've seen some of the top coaches who declined
Speaker 2: to move, like Scott Drew who just felt comfortable at Baylor.
Speaker 2: So Carolina might get some of that too. But obviously
Speaker 2: it's a desirable job, so I don't think they'd have
Speaker 2: too much problem getting getting somebody who was experienced, getting
Speaker 2: somebody who's approven winner to come here and take over.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think Carolina it clearly. I mean
Speaker 5: there's I think there's three jobs in college basketball that
Speaker 5: are all the best jobs in different ways, and I
Speaker 5: think that's Carolina, Kansas, and Kentucky in no particular order.
Speaker 5: I would give Kentucky the nod just because of how
Speaker 5: many different coaches have won national championships there. But clearly
Speaker 5: all three of those jobs are are phenomenal. And when
Speaker 5: when Roy stepped down a few years ago, I remember
Speaker 5: thinking to myself, like, well, it's North Carolina. So like
Speaker 5: maybe Mark Few would leave Gonzaga, it's North Carolina. Maybe
Speaker 5: Jay Wright would finally leave Villanova because you know, it's
Speaker 5: it's Carolina. So that's one of those schools that, like
Speaker 5: when it is open, you know, you could there's no
Speaker 5: name that I feel like is sort of off the radar,
Speaker 5: and you know, you could say the same thing about Duke,
Speaker 5: and they decided to kind of keep it in the family.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I just the more you mentioned Hubert, he obviously played
Speaker 5: there and he's a Carolina guy. Like, it's got to
Speaker 5: be hard for Carolina fans. They don't want to be
Speaker 5: bashing a guy that they genuinely want to be successful,
Speaker 5: more so than they would if it was a different
Speaker 5: guy coaching them who didn't play there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, man, there's.
Speaker 5: There's not I mean, can you give me some good
Speaker 5: examples in basketball at the college level where they've they've
Speaker 5: hired a guy and the biggest factor that made him
Speaker 5: a big candidate was his connection.
Speaker 1: Like, has it ever worked out anywhere?
Speaker 2: Oh? Wow, that's I would have to really do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think it has.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's some guys who lasted, you know, have
Speaker 5: have been more successful than the likes of Kinny Payne
Speaker 5: and whatnot. But like, I just feel like that's a
Speaker 5: that that's it just doesn't seem to work out.
Speaker 2: Well, let me say this about Kenny because I don't
Speaker 2: want to get I don't want this to get too lost.
Speaker 2: When you look at his resume, he did have a
Speaker 2: resume of someone who should be taking a step from
Speaker 2: assistant coach to head coach. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I mean, his years being number one assistant at Kentucky
Speaker 2: under cow, having the experience, the NBA, experience with the Knicks,
Speaker 2: like all those things, being being you know, viewed as
Speaker 2: one of the top recruiters. All of those things were
Speaker 2: supposed to, you know, equate to a successful formula for him. Now,
Speaker 2: the things that you don't really know until you see
Speaker 2: somebody take over a program is how they run it,
Speaker 2: how they run their practice, you know, all of the
Speaker 2: details that make you know, basically determines winning and losing.
Speaker 2: We didn't know all that about Kenny. We didn't know
Speaker 2: how he would deal with the media and et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera. So, you know, I mean, I still feel
Speaker 2: like that was the right hire.
Speaker 5: Oh look, let's be let's be real when that happened.
Speaker 5: I mean, I'll keep it real. When that happened. I
Speaker 5: can't think of many, if any, that were critical of
Speaker 5: it as far as like, you know, nobody knew exactly
Speaker 5: how it's going to work out, So I'm not talking
Speaker 5: about what people predicted, but when that happened, I mean,
Speaker 5: everybody said it made sense. And then you know, sometimes
Speaker 5: you know, you learn the hard way that that wasn't
Speaker 5: the right decision. So look, I it's hard for me
Speaker 5: to be super critical of heard as far as how
Speaker 5: that you know, him hiring hiring Kenny Payne, because given
Speaker 5: with the program was at the time and what the
Speaker 5: realistic options were, I would have done the exact same thing,
Speaker 5: and you know it it just didn't work out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you know, I mean the jury is
Speaker 2: still out on a lot of guys.
Speaker 13: I do feel like the jury is still out on
Speaker 13: John Shire because if you if you go by Duke standards,
Speaker 13: dupers measured him in final fourth national championships, not.
Speaker 2: Not ACC titles, not you know, seeds A SEC tournaments. Yeah,
Speaker 2: not number one recruiting classes.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: He certainly has done those things well so far, but
Speaker 2: it's gonna come down to what he does in March
Speaker 2: and April that really defines him and you know, this
Speaker 2: team is setting him up for a big fall. Estate
Speaker 2: don't come through because they might go undefeated in the
Speaker 2: ACEC regular season, you know, And so I.
Speaker 1: Think they will.
Speaker 2: They have they have a thud in the sweet sixteen,
Speaker 2: you know, like it'll be like, yeah, with the number
Speaker 2: one player, presumptive number one player, number one draft pick
Speaker 2: of the NBA, probably probable National Player of the Year
Speaker 2: as a true freshman, Like it's gonna be like, eh,
Speaker 2: I don't know if Shine working out or not, you know. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of questions with this league, A lot of questions,
Speaker 2: not a lot of uh, not a lot of light
Speaker 2: at the end of the tunnel, you know. Thinking even
Speaker 2: moving ahead for the league as a whole, I think
Speaker 2: it looks very bright and Louisville right now.
Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, but they went but they went through a
Speaker 5: dark era that none of these skills will probably ever
Speaker 5: go through. So I think that's why it's been so enjoyable,
Speaker 5: enjoyable for fans. And look, let's be real, Louisville being
Speaker 5: as bad as they were for three and a half
Speaker 5: years is a factor. One of the factors is as
Speaker 5: to why the league kind of has the reputation I mean,
Speaker 5: it's one of the many.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they when.
Speaker 5: People talk about the league falling apart in hoops in
Speaker 5: recent years, trust me, I know that Louisville is one
Speaker 5: of those programs that they're thinking of it. Cl As always,
Speaker 5: I appreciate you making time for us. Always enjoy the conversation,
Speaker 5: my man. Keep up your great work at the CJ
Speaker 5: and they we'll.
Speaker 1: Talk soon, all right, appreciating Nick.
Speaker 5: All right, take care of that. Cel Brown of the
Speaker 5: Courier Journal. Good stuff, good stuff. I always love talking
Speaker 5: college tops with cl which you know is why we
Speaker 5: went way long on that segment. And now that means
Speaker 5: I got to get to a break. But I want
Speaker 5: to react to some of the some of our conversation
Speaker 5: there and keep this thing rolling along. We're about halfway
Speaker 5: through here on a Wednesday. It's coffee and Company Fuel.
Speaker 5: Beth Thornton's on Sports Talk seven ninety all right, this
Speaker 5: is coffee and Company fuel. Beth Thornton's here on Sports
Speaker 5: Talks seven ninety five oh two. Five seventy nine hundred
Speaker 5: is the number if you want to jump in and
Speaker 5: give us a call. Text line the L and N
Speaker 5: Federal Credit Union text Line five oh two sixty five
Speaker 5: three zero seven ninety Texas. Nick, your conversation with cl
Speaker 5: reminds me that a lot of big programs that open
Speaker 5: up typically get it wrong by going after a big
Speaker 5: name rather than just trusting a guy who's been successful.
Speaker 5: Louisville doing this with Pat Kelsey should remind all other
Speaker 5: programs this is the way to go.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 5: I mean, you're well, let me back up a second here,
Speaker 5: Louisville getting Pat Kelcey and it working out really well
Speaker 5: thus far. I mean that's not I mean, I don't
Speaker 5: know if that was a real popular move at the time.
Speaker 5: And I'm not even necessarily talking about the fans like
Speaker 5: Louisville moving on from Kenny Payne and hiring a guy
Speaker 5: that you had never heard of unless you were a
Speaker 5: big time college basketball fan and you really just you know,
Speaker 5: we're following the sport more so than just the top
Speaker 5: programs in your team. So I mean, I say that
Speaker 5: to actually feel like we should be giving a little
Speaker 5: more credit to Josh Hurd, because he clearly saw something
Speaker 5: that that many other schools didn't notice and didn't value.
Speaker 5: I guess, because I could be wrong, I don't think
Speaker 5: Pat Kelsey was a candidate for any job or was
Speaker 5: being rumored to be in the mix elsewhere after having
Speaker 5: a great run at Charleston, he eventually probably would have.
Speaker 5: But you know, I don't think I don't think what
Speaker 5: Louisville's doing is something that other schools are just going
Speaker 5: to be able to go and find a Pat Kelsey,
Speaker 5: Like there's a bunch of them growing on trees. I mean,
Speaker 5: I will say this when it comes to the the
Speaker 5: bigger programs out there, Like if Virginia opens up, which
Speaker 5: it's going to by the way, it's actually already opened.
Speaker 5: So Virginia, that job's open, Miami's open, and you know,
Speaker 5: Duke probably not going to be opening unless you know,
Speaker 5: something crazy happens the rest of the way.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think Duke Duke is weird.
Speaker 5: Duke could be unsuccessful further standard, maybe even below, like
Speaker 5: I mean, maybe they do. Maybe has a few years
Speaker 5: where they're like middle of a pack in the ACC.
Speaker 5: Hard to imagine that right now, But like I just think,
Speaker 5: like coach Kate is Duke basketball, there was really no
Speaker 5: existence of the program. So I just have a hard
Speaker 5: time seeing him not having the ultimate say so in
Speaker 5: Duke basketball for as long as he wants, and I
Speaker 5: just have a hard time thinking he would ever move
Speaker 5: on from john Shire. But like North Carolina, you know,
Speaker 5: those are the kind of programs to where if they
Speaker 5: are trustworthy of their resources and what they can do,
Speaker 5: like what they can provide a coach, the vehicle essentially
Speaker 5: that they give these coaches. Then finding a guy like
Speaker 5: Pat Kelsey who hasn't just been successful, He's been very
Speaker 5: successful at two different places. Right, there's levels of success.
Speaker 5: Pat wasn't just an up and coming coach that took
Speaker 5: a Charleston program and it went the program from the
Speaker 5: seller to you know, the tournament. I mean, let's be real,
Speaker 5: Pat never has never won a tournament game. And you
Speaker 5: know that's people are gonna mention that was mentioned when
Speaker 5: he was hired. I mean, I get it. Tournament wins
Speaker 5: matter a lot. But sometimes dudes are average coaches or
Speaker 5: maybe slightly above average, and then they go on one
Speaker 5: big tournament run and it looks as if like they're
Speaker 5: superstars and it just doesn't work out that way. So
Speaker 5: tournament runs, you can't. Tournament success is valuable and you
Speaker 5: shouldn't ignore it. But like Pat Kelsty losing with Charleston
Speaker 5: and winthrom in the NCAA tournament when he's when he's
Speaker 5: playing a two and a three seed, that doesn't really
Speaker 5: tell you that he's a bad coach at all. So
Speaker 5: I guess what I'm saying is I can't think of
Speaker 5: a program that's of Louisville's caliber because honestly, there's not
Speaker 5: many of them. We're talking about the best programs in
Speaker 5: the country here, like, and again, I know Louisville's not
Speaker 5: the best, but certainly they're in that they're they're in
Speaker 5: the in the top tier. I think there's an elite
Speaker 5: tier and Louisville's in the tier right behind that, and
Speaker 5: that tier is pretty small too, So programs similar to
Speaker 5: Louisville that have that have made the kind of move
Speaker 5: because look, louisll got it wrong this past time. I
Speaker 5: still don't believe they got it wrong with MAC because
Speaker 5: I think that had potential to work, and I don't
Speaker 5: know if it would have ever worked that long term
Speaker 5: where he would have Louisville back in final fours and
Speaker 5: things like that, but I mean early on it was successful.
Speaker 5: And I think his coaching early on, specifically with you know,
Speaker 5: his first couple of teams, like that was a factor
Speaker 5: in why Louisville was having some success. So that kind
Speaker 5: of higher meaning the Mac that said Xavier that is
Speaker 5: just you know, at a good job having success.
Speaker 1: Get you mean, if you can get a one seed
Speaker 1: at a play.
Speaker 5: Like Xavier, that that Xavier can give you really everything
Speaker 5: you need. I mean Mac got a one seed and
Speaker 5: signed a top ten class in Xavier. That kind of
Speaker 5: made it seem as if he'd never leaved because he's
Speaker 5: got the resources there to where he can bring in
Speaker 5: elite talent and he can, you know, plays in a
Speaker 5: league in the Big East where you can have a
Speaker 5: number one seed. So coaches like that in the in
Speaker 5: the now, I just don't really know where they are, right, Like,
Speaker 5: there's guys out there that are successful, but I mean
Speaker 5: I think this will be an interest in case study,
Speaker 5: right Like, is there a Pat Kelsey out there meeting
Speaker 5: a guy that has been really good? And I know
Speaker 5: there's some, but like I like, for example, the guy
Speaker 5: that's at Drake Now, I mean, he's got Drake Rowland.
Speaker 5: He was a super successful coach at the D two level. Like,
Speaker 5: I think he's a really good basketball coach. I think
Speaker 5: that you know, given what he's proven to be as
Speaker 5: a coach with the resources and an elite job like
Speaker 5: a Carolina would have. I feel like he doesn't have
Speaker 5: to be a great coach, but he is and he's
Speaker 5: got those resources, So I feel like that would be
Speaker 5: a really successful fit. But I also have a hard
Speaker 5: time thinking that they would ever consider hiring a guy
Speaker 5: McCollum is his name, because you know, nobody's ever.
Speaker 1: Heard of him.
Speaker 5: So Louisville did it in a way, but it also
Speaker 5: wasn't as big of a surprise because like, had Louisville
Speaker 5: hired Pat Kelcey before they hired Kenny Payne and it
Speaker 5: went from Mac to Kelcey, that'd be weird first and foremost,
Speaker 5: but also like it would have been like, wow, that's
Speaker 5: who Louisville got because Louisville was so awful during the
Speaker 5: KP era, Like there wasn't as much of a shock
Speaker 5: as far as getting a guy like that. So other
Speaker 5: programs that are in the status of Louisville, will they
Speaker 5: have like will they be comfortable doing that, because like
Speaker 5: if you're remembered because you make a big tournament run,
Speaker 5: like if Dusty May had the regular season records that
Speaker 5: Pat Kelsey had at Charleston, but he did not make
Speaker 5: a deep run at FAU. Nobody would know who the
Speaker 5: hell he was. He would never get hired. And I'm
Speaker 5: not saying that to pick on him, Like he may
Speaker 5: be great at Michigan, I don't know. But Pat Kelsey's
Speaker 5: success at both places proved that he was a good coach.
Speaker 5: And the more you think about it, like, yeah, it's
Speaker 5: a different level, right, you got to be able to recruit.
Speaker 5: You're playing way better teams night in and night out
Speaker 5: than you do in the Colonial Athletic Conference and whatever.
Speaker 5: Winthrop's in the Big South. But again, if the resources
Speaker 5: are there, like, it should be able to work. There's
Speaker 5: no guarantees. Sometimes it's not. But yeah, I think if
Speaker 5: you're you know, you should be able to look at
Speaker 5: Louisville and what they're doing and maybe not think you
Speaker 5: can just go get that same kind of guy. But
Speaker 5: if a coach has proven to be really successful, you're
Speaker 5: and he's walking.
Speaker 1: Into a job.
Speaker 5: Especially now when you can buy players like that, I
Speaker 5: think it makes it easier. You're not having to sell
Speaker 5: us much on your individual like you know, coaching and
Speaker 5: all that, because the end of the day, money matters. Now,
Speaker 5: let's go to the phone line. Five two five seventy
Speaker 5: nine hundred is the number. Let's go to Jerry. Jerry,
Speaker 5: what's happening?
Speaker 14: I had to call in Nick. I get so tired
Speaker 14: of listening to cl make excuses for Kenny Payne. I mean,
Speaker 14: are we kidding ourselves this far down the road and
Speaker 14: he's still saying that he had a resume. I mean, well,
Speaker 14: I said it a hundred times.
Speaker 5: I think Cel's point, more so was just that at
Speaker 5: the time, Kenny, you know that was a move that
Speaker 5: that made sense to a lot of people. But you know,
Speaker 5: clearly hiring a guy with no head coaching experience, I
Speaker 5: mean it backfired in a major way.
Speaker 14: Okay, but but he said on there he had the resume.
Speaker 14: He did not have the resume. Let's get that straight.
Speaker 14: I mean, come on, he had not been a head coach,
Speaker 14: and you're gonna you're gonna handing the keys to a
Speaker 14: brand new corvette. You know you're gonna give him a
Speaker 14: top ten program. I mean, it's a joe. It's a
Speaker 14: joke for him to get on here still spouting those excuses.
Speaker 14: You know, I read all his articles last year and
Speaker 14: I got zero respect for the guy because it.
Speaker 2: Was all excuses.
Speaker 14: He always had the excuse for the gay.
Speaker 2: There was no excuses.
Speaker 14: Okay, here here. Last night was one of the best
Speaker 14: nights as a Louisville basketball fan I've had in three
Speaker 14: or four years. And I tune in and I listened
Speaker 14: to that crap. Come on, man, challenge him. He needs
Speaker 14: to be challenged. He did not have the resume. He
Speaker 14: had the resume for Austin p He had the resume
Speaker 14: for Tennessee Tech. Let them hire him.
Speaker 5: Look, Jerry, Jerry, you know look, let me let me
Speaker 5: respond because because you and I are on the same page, Kenny,
Speaker 5: I brought this up when he didn't get hired, when
Speaker 5: they hired back, and I brought it up throughout the process.
Speaker 1: Whenever he was hired.
Speaker 5: I thought it was a red flag that he would
Speaker 5: not take a pay cut, because you have to take
Speaker 5: a pay cut, like Kevin Keats. He's clearly not a
Speaker 5: great coach right now this year, and I don't know
Speaker 5: how good he is overall, But Kevin Keats took a
Speaker 5: substantial pay cut to go coach at you see Wilmington.
Speaker 5: You know why, because he bet on himself. He sacrificed
Speaker 5: because he felt like he could could he's he could
Speaker 5: succeed there and then jump up. Kenny not doing that
Speaker 5: absolutely stood out to me. You and I have had
Speaker 5: the conversation before. I didn't feel like today Cel was
Speaker 5: acting as if, you know, Kenny had a great resume.
Speaker 5: I think he was more so dismistioned. And look, let's
Speaker 5: be real, when when when Kenny was hired, I don't
Speaker 5: think being just an assistant for Cal looked as look
Speaker 5: looked the same then as it does now. Again, clearly
Speaker 5: he was just you know, I mean later we learned
Speaker 5: that even in Kentucky, Kenny wasn't doing much of anything.
Speaker 5: He was just kind of around and you know, was
Speaker 5: believed to be a relationship.
Speaker 1: Kind of guy and all that.
Speaker 5: So I don't really disagree with anything you're saying as
Speaker 5: far as Kenny Payne, but I didn't necessarily feel that
Speaker 5: like today. Like last year, I remember cl wrote an
Speaker 5: article that that insinuated that that Kenny Payne could be
Speaker 5: the next day Hurley and and I remember thinking that's
Speaker 5: really embarrassing, like that was that's that's asinine, that's insane.
Speaker 5: But like today, I don't feel like he was making
Speaker 5: excuses about Kenny. I think he was just saying that
Speaker 5: you know him at that time, being a long tenured
Speaker 5: assistant at under Cal, you know would be well. I
Speaker 5: think the reason you you, you felt the need to
Speaker 5: kind of call in and chirpist because I think c
Speaker 5: L kind of wanted to defend Kenny, when, in my opinion,
Speaker 5: I don't really think there's any defend I don't think
Speaker 5: there's anything you can you can defend about the way
Speaker 5: Kenny did every aspect of this job.
Speaker 14: Well, here's my here's my thing. I'm just gonna tell
Speaker 14: it like I feel it. Okay, you allowed him to
Speaker 14: say that again today on your show, and I'm disappointed
Speaker 14: that you didn't call him out because he said it could.
Speaker 14: Because here's the deal. One of the reasons again I
Speaker 14: listened to you, is you're the one that you're the
Speaker 14: first media guy in Louis Wille to stand up and
Speaker 14: say this is not working. But then you allow a
Speaker 14: guy to get on your show that you I don't
Speaker 14: think you're.
Speaker 5: I don't, but I don't think he did what you're
Speaker 5: saying he did. I don't think he defended Kenny Payne
Speaker 5: and acted like Kenny Payne was a good coach. The
Speaker 5: only comment he made that I that I that from
Speaker 5: what I can tell, UH got this result from you
Speaker 5: is that he said he said the word resume and
Speaker 5: that he didn't have a bad resume. I don't think
Speaker 5: he d we talked about Kenny Payne was mentioned maybe
Speaker 5: fifteen seconds in that conversation that was about twenty minutes long.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I hear you, but like if he would.
Speaker 5: Have told me Kenny Payin was good and it was
Speaker 5: a good it was a great hire, and you know,
Speaker 5: like I didn't hear any of that from cl I
Speaker 5: think you're probably basing that off of some things that
Speaker 5: were said last year when he did make excuses, which
Speaker 5: you are correct, but today that's not what the conversation was.
Speaker 14: Well, I'm gonna add it like kids, Okay, I don't
Speaker 14: enjoy the guy. You just now stated yourself that he
Speaker 14: wrote an Asonine article. Why would you have a guy
Speaker 14: on your show and allow him to talk about his
Speaker 14: resume again because.
Speaker 1: He wrote one column that I.
Speaker 14: Didn't want an Athonine article.
Speaker 5: Look, I say asinine things. I've been wrong probably a
Speaker 5: bunch of times within this segment, Like Jerry, I appreciate
Speaker 5: the call man, and good to hear from you. I
Speaker 5: know you're gonna tell us the way you feel, and
Speaker 5: I appreciate.
Speaker 1: That that's that's what this is supposed to be.
Speaker 5: But like, because I strongly disagreed with a column and
Speaker 5: I thought it was asinine that I should just never
Speaker 5: converse with somebody who I do respect as a person,
Speaker 5: and I respect him in his career and what he
Speaker 5: does as a journalist. I've I've said stupider things than
Speaker 5: then than he has, I'm sure, So like, I mean,
Speaker 5: trust me, I don't. I don't bring people on the show,
Speaker 5: uh to to talk and get their opinions because I'm
Speaker 5: of the opinion because I'm of the opinion that they've
Speaker 5: never been wrong. In fact, it makes better conversation if
Speaker 5: you're actually going back and forth with somebody and you
Speaker 5: are sharing different thoughts and having different opinions. So I
Speaker 5: get it, I'm as I mean, I get PTSD about
Speaker 5: Kenny Payne like anybody else. But I did not at
Speaker 5: all think that the conversation today with C. L. Brown
Speaker 5: was was zero point zero one percent about Kenny Paine.
Speaker 5: We were talking about other programs that have made the
Speaker 5: same in fact, I brought it up basically saying that
Speaker 5: going that route has not worked very well in recent
Speaker 5: I mean, I can't think of any example where it
Speaker 5: has worked. That's why I got brought up. And all
Speaker 5: CL did was say, is you know, when it comes
Speaker 5: to Kenny Payne at the time, you know, he did
Speaker 5: have a resume that showed that he was next in
Speaker 5: line for a job, and I didn't feel the need
Speaker 5: to cut him off and correct him because I don't
Speaker 5: think that's an insane thing to say. It's just that,
Speaker 5: you know, again, Louisville hired him because he was connected us.
Speaker 5: That was the reason why he was a candidate. He
Speaker 5: also was an assistant coach. So we need to move on.
Speaker 5: I gotta get to break will probably double these breaks
Speaker 5: up because I went way too long here. But I mean,
Speaker 5: I respect Cel Brown and there's been many things he
Speaker 5: said that I'm sure I disagreed with, but that's not
Speaker 5: how I decided, like I think in just my opinion,
Speaker 5: And he never really kind of answered or responded to
Speaker 5: me because I said it twice to him. I think
Speaker 5: Jerry a lot of what his reaction there was based
Speaker 5: off of not what CL said in the twenty minute
Speaker 5: conversation that I mean, I think he said one thing
Speaker 5: and that was it and we moved on. I think
Speaker 5: Jerry's basing it off of some things that were said
Speaker 5: last year when there were excuses made about Kenny Payne
Speaker 5: and Cel did that. I think at the time Seal
Speaker 5: genuinely believed that Kenny was going to be able to
Speaker 5: somehow get it working here.
Speaker 1: But you know that didn't happen.
Speaker 5: That was wrong, and I disagreed with his column and
Speaker 5: I had him on I believe at the time he
Speaker 5: wrote it and we talked about it. So you know, anyways,
Speaker 5: quick break, in fact, probably not super quick because we're
Speaker 5: way too late. We'll see if we can double these
Speaker 5: up here, come back and start with a fresh hour
Speaker 5: at five o'clock and hope you stick around. It's coffee
Speaker 5: and company. Feel abut Thorn's right here on Sports Talk
Speaker 5: seven ninety