Speaker 1: Hey, lovely people.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole.
Speaker 3: I know I'm Ben, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a.
Speaker 2: True crime podcast morning. The following podcast material audience.
Speaker 1: Listeners, Hey, hey, hey, what's up? How exciting?
Speaker 2: Hello? Happy spring?
Speaker 3: Yes it's oh my god, the snow's melting. Thank god.
Speaker 2: I feel like first day of spring doesn't mean much
Speaker 2: for people that live a little bit up north because
Speaker 2: we're not quite there.
Speaker 3: No, I mean I only really, like personally, only really
Speaker 3: recognize spring when I see the first Robin's that's the
Speaker 3: start of spring for me.
Speaker 2: And generally the snow is off the ground when.
Speaker 3: They're out right, yeah, usually because they're on your front
Speaker 3: lawn sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And we probably have at least like a foot and
Speaker 2: a half.
Speaker 3: Yeah about that. Yeah, so we got a waste to go.
Speaker 2: So you people that are listening that don't have any snow.
Speaker 3: Right now, I want to say a lot of bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll just leave it at that. I don't have
Speaker 2: anything nice to say.
Speaker 3: No, we're jealous. Let's just say that.
Speaker 2: So jealous. But I was even going to say even
Speaker 2: like downtown though, because we live I don't know where
Speaker 2: in our city, Prince George, we live in the Heart
Speaker 2: and like downtown has wait is almost done with their
Speaker 2: snowe oh yeah, well.
Speaker 3: Because the Heart, like it's the northern part of the city,
Speaker 3: and we have like way more elevation, so we generally
Speaker 3: are like two weeks behind downtowns Yeah, so it's just
Speaker 3: that much more winter and we get that much more
Speaker 3: snow at the beginning of the year because it snows
Speaker 3: first like two three weeks before Downtown.
Speaker 2: It's just but it's dope living up here.
Speaker 3: It is. It's cool. Okay, what we're gonna say, I
Speaker 3: was gonna to say that it's we're still a ways
Speaker 3: off from this launching, but I started working on our
Speaker 3: website the other day. Guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we've got the domain name, we've got everything
Speaker 3: set up. It's just a matter of getting the website
Speaker 3: built and out there so we can you know, launch
Speaker 3: had episodes out there, a little bit about us, or
Speaker 3: if we're going to be doing any giveaways or announcements,
Speaker 3: it can all be there. And of course our Instagram too.
Speaker 2: Did you get I don't even know what domain name you.
Speaker 3: Got, wicked ingram dot com Okay, sweet, Yeah, I just
Speaker 3: got to figure out how to link the website in
Speaker 3: that domain. But yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2: Wow, look at us.
Speaker 3: Go, we're hitting the big time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're being productive here, productivity.
Speaker 3: You have a website that means you made it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much, totally actually, And it's cool speaking of
Speaker 2: website because my my case has a bit to do
Speaker 2: with the internet. So look at that.
Speaker 3: Look at your sage boom, let's hear it. That was
Speaker 3: so your How does your case have to do with
Speaker 3: the inner webs?
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's the Dexter Killer, you.
Speaker 3: See, like mimicking the show or what?
Speaker 2: Well, just you wait, I'm going to dive in here.
Speaker 2: The event took place in Edmond and Alberta and is
Speaker 2: the tale of two men each trying to reinvent themselves,
Speaker 2: crossing paths on the Internet with the most horrifying of results.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: The murder in this case is Mark Twitchell. Twitchell, I
Speaker 2: think that's how you say his last name. He's a
Speaker 2: twenty nine year old man, or he was twenty nine
Speaker 2: at the time of the murder, obsessed with comic books,
Speaker 2: star wars, making low budget movies, and Dexter.
Speaker 3: Okay, so are you describing me so far?
Speaker 2: I know, right? Okay, because he's actually was. I didn't
Speaker 2: even put that in there, but he was into like
Speaker 2: cosplay too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're you're literally describing me?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Are You're not into making low budget movies? Oh
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm literally exporting a documentary on my laptop as
Speaker 3: we're speaking.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Oh gosh, well this is
Speaker 2: definitely not you. So he's a film school graduate with
Speaker 2: a small following among sci fi fans when he directed
Speaker 2: a fan film prequel prequel for the Star Wars franchise,
Speaker 2: with a short cameo from Jeremy Bullock. Oh way, you
Speaker 2: know who that is? Oh? I do? Who is it?
Speaker 3: Bubba Fett?
Speaker 2: Yes? I had that in brackets because I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to remember who that is. He's since passed,
Speaker 2: I think, right, Jeremy Bullock, I felt like it. That's
Speaker 2: what she said.
Speaker 3: No, I don't If he did pass it was just
Speaker 3: just this year. I'm trying to think now I got
Speaker 3: a Google.
Speaker 2: Is Okay, I don't know. Hopefully hopefully he is. And
Speaker 2: I didn't just pretend like he was, but I, like.
Speaker 3: I said, if he passed away, it was this year,
Speaker 3: and there's so much shit going on this past twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 3: I don't think he's did he pass away?
Speaker 2: We're searching it, we're researching it.
Speaker 3: Yeah he did.
Speaker 2: Okay, so Icember seventeenth, twenty Okay, so that's.
Speaker 1: Not even that long ago.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's not.
Speaker 2: Okay. Well back to Mark. Mark was married with an
Speaker 2: infant daughter and living in a ooh, living in his
Speaker 2: small home in the suburbs of Edmonton.
Speaker 3: Okay, so this isn't too far from us.
Speaker 2: No, So I'm using a tablet just to let people know.
Speaker 2: And it just like automatically zoomed in and I had
Speaker 2: to zoom out, and so yeah, smooth. I know Ben's
Speaker 2: making me try to be all like it worked.
Speaker 3: For me last time. It was awesome, and I just
Speaker 3: I recommend it. Tablet's dope.
Speaker 2: Mark Mark was accused of getting his inspiration from the
Speaker 2: TV show Dexter. I love me some Dexter.
Speaker 3: Okay, so he is kind of a copycat killer.
Speaker 2: Sort of thing. Yeah, so Dexter Morgan, for anyone out
Speaker 2: there that doesn't know, is the main character. Well, the
Speaker 2: show's on Netflix. He very much so lives a double life.
Speaker 2: He works as a forensic technician, I think it was
Speaker 2: blood stained pattern analysis.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did like blood splatter patterns and all that
Speaker 3: sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the Miami Metro Police Department by day, but
Speaker 2: by night he was off being a serial killer killing
Speaker 2: other murderers.
Speaker 3: It's a dope show.
Speaker 2: It's eight seasons, so it's like a bit of a commitment.
Speaker 2: But I am like literally obsessed with Dexter. I should
Speaker 2: watch it again. It's surprisingly I've only watched it one.
Speaker 3: We should watch it again.
Speaker 2: It's so good. So though he may have got some
Speaker 2: inspiration room Dexter, in my opinion, he was no Dexter Morgan,
Speaker 2: not at all.
Speaker 3: No, not even close. He wishes, he wishes. He's just
Speaker 3: some weenie out in Edmonton.
Speaker 2: In September of two thousand and eight, Mark decided to
Speaker 2: take his filmmaking a different direction and began buying items
Speaker 2: off the internet. The items that he purchased were such
Speaker 2: as a meat cleaver, handcuffs, steel barrel, stun baton. He
Speaker 2: made visits to Canadian Tire and Home Deeple to buy
Speaker 2: numerous rolls of duct tape, plastic gloves, gloves and drop cloths,
Speaker 2: and he rented a garage for one hundred and seventy
Speaker 2: a month in a quiet neighborhood in Edmonton's suicide.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a very big list concerning a lot
Speaker 3: of very dark, concerning items. However, if you're just into
Speaker 3: BDSM and you have a safe word, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: not that bad.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, just.
Speaker 3: Say pineapple and you're good, right, pineapple is the safe word.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In late September, he shot a short crime film
Speaker 2: film called House of Cards. Instead rented garage with some
Speaker 2: filmmaking buddies. Okay, so the script that he wrote was
Speaker 2: about a killer who lures a cheating man off an
Speaker 2: online dating website, tortures him to reveal his pass codes,
Speaker 2: and then hacks him into little bits.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, so the book? Did they actually hack
Speaker 3: someone into little bits? Was it like a real thing? Though?
Speaker 2: Can you just wait for me to like.
Speaker 3: I'm getting a little head on't I? Okay? I think
Speaker 3: I think I might have just had a little prediction.
Speaker 2: The buddies helped Mark with special effects, sets and props.
Speaker 2: Mark had asked them to make a sturdy wood table
Speaker 2: with a metal finish and a metal chair that could
Speaker 2: be bolted to the floor of the garage. If only
Speaker 2: that was all the equipment and rented garage were used for,
Speaker 2: but that would not be very exciting podcast if that
Speaker 2: was all it was used for.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 2: On October third, two thousand and eight, Mark decided to
Speaker 2: turn the script into a reality. He poses a woman
Speaker 2: named Sheena on an internet dating site and successfully lured
Speaker 2: a man to his garage. This man was named Jill's. Yeah, Jill's.
Speaker 2: I can't pronounce his last name.
Speaker 3: Names suck sometimes.
Speaker 2: Are really hard tech, wrote, I think it is. But
Speaker 2: where we're going to refer to him as Jills Jills.
Speaker 2: He followed some So Jill's followed some crazy ass directions
Speaker 2: that were provided by Shina, which I'm going to read
Speaker 2: them to you because, like, I don't know, maybe I'm
Speaker 2: just different, but I would never have been like.
Speaker 3: I'd have been like a mout Kibetshena is the alias
Speaker 3: for this killing.
Speaker 2: Shina is actually Mark Okay, Yeah, good old Mark Okay.
Speaker 2: So here are the directions. They're a little bit long,
Speaker 2: so you just have to listen. If you're coming from
Speaker 2: the north on Groat, get on Calgary Trail when you
Speaker 2: get to the south side, stop dropping things all right
Speaker 2: when you get to the south side and jump on
Speaker 2: white met white mud. Then go south on fiftieth Street,
Speaker 2: take it right on fortieth AB and after a block
Speaker 2: or two, take the very first right into the alley.
Speaker 2: It's marked by a yellow crosswalk sign, so pay attention.
Speaker 2: Then go left, pull into the only driveway on the
Speaker 2: left that isn't paved. Lol. Seriously, whoever heard of a
Speaker 2: driveway that looks like the Amazon? Whatever? It won't swallow
Speaker 2: your car. I promise there's some garbage up against the fence,
Speaker 2: like an old couch and such, but it might be
Speaker 2: gone by Friday. Who knows. Like I said, the groa
Speaker 2: will be open for you just to touch. Don't worry
Speaker 2: about neighbors thinking you're a burglar. Everyone knows there's nothing
Speaker 2: valuable in there except my car, of course.
Speaker 3: See you then, Ghina, what whatever happened to an address?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: What's up? I live on one two eight Fake Streets?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't want to give, like Mark didn't want
Speaker 2: to give the address. But I'm just like, if someone's
Speaker 2: directing me to like a sketch garage with like apparently
Speaker 2: a driveway that's like the Amazon, with like an old
Speaker 2: couch and garbage and shit like that, and it's just
Speaker 2: gonna be open to crack, Like there's no freaking way.
Speaker 3: Although, like there's a lot of people out there who
Speaker 3: do a lot of weird shit just for some tail
Speaker 3: on Tinder and stuff. So this guy's thinking I'm gonna
Speaker 3: get laid. He's probably gonna follow these directions.
Speaker 2: Well maybe that's a doe thing, but just like there
Speaker 2: is just like no way, like no way. So when
Speaker 2: Jill's arrives, he bends down under the partially raised door
Speaker 2: as directed and enters the darkened garage, Like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: is there not such things as like true crime podcasts
Speaker 2: and like true crime back then?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Apparently not, because like there's oh.
Speaker 3: Again, he just he was just confident he's gonna get
Speaker 3: some tail.
Speaker 2: I don't know. There's no reason for this.
Speaker 3: No, there's no excuse. Don't go into shady garages people.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, okay, I mean I might not get asked,
Speaker 2: get showed if the garage door was like open the
Speaker 2: whole way. I don't know why that would make it
Speaker 2: seem better. But if I'm having to bend under a
Speaker 2: partially open garage door, that's yeah, no, okay, I'm moving on.
Speaker 2: I'm moving on. Basically. As soon as he entered, he
Speaker 2: felt someone grab him from behind, obviously, and start prodding
Speaker 2: him with the stun baton. When he turned around to
Speaker 2: face his attacker, he faced a man Mark wearing a
Speaker 2: hockey mask and realized this was no date. Mark took
Speaker 2: out a gun and ordered Jill's to the ground, placing
Speaker 2: duct tape on his eyes. Jill's on the ground decided
Speaker 2: he's not going to die, or if he's going to die,
Speaker 2: he'd rather go out his own way. Yeah, fair enough,
Speaker 2: I'm like, good for you, men, let's do this. He
Speaker 2: got up, ripped the tape from his eyes, grabbed Mark's gun,
Speaker 2: only to discover that it was just a plastic gun.
Speaker 2: It was a violent struggle, but Jill's was able to
Speaker 2: get out of the garage, collapsing into the back alley.
Speaker 2: He actually collapsed in front of a couple who was
Speaker 2: out walking and asked them for help, but the couple walking,
Speaker 2: so the couple walked away, fearing that he was part
Speaker 2: of the ploy to actually get them.
Speaker 3: Oh what.
Speaker 2: They did later report the incident to the police, but
Speaker 2: not until they got home. However, Jill's was still able
Speaker 2: to get away, and this is the real kicker though,
Speaker 2: is Jills did not report this to the police. What
Speaker 2: because he was embarrassed, And I was like, oh no, oh, no,
Speaker 2: oh no, Okay, besides just being embarrassed, I think he
Speaker 2: was also like scared because he wasn't or if it
Speaker 2: was a I don't know the word, but like a
Speaker 2: planned attack for him, and then if this guy would
Speaker 2: like keep looking for him or whatever. But yeah, he
Speaker 2: didn't report this.
Speaker 3: That's fucked up. Okay, if something happens to you and
Speaker 3: you have the ability to potentially stop it happen happening
Speaker 3: to someone else, fucking take that leap and make sure
Speaker 3: you don't help this killer hurt someone else or this
Speaker 3: person assault anyone else.
Speaker 2: Because okay, and I was gonna say targeted attack. Even
Speaker 2: if it was a targeted attack on him, like you
Speaker 2: should still get the police involved, Like either way.
Speaker 3: They need to be involved, no kidding, either he's going
Speaker 3: to keep attacking you or someone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I know I didn't. I just didn't love that.
Speaker 2: That really frustrated me.
Speaker 3: It should never be embarrassing for the victim because it's
Speaker 3: never the victim's fault. It's it's you can hold like
Speaker 3: even the whole like me too, movement and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: There's people out there being all like, oh, well you
Speaker 3: were dressed in slutty clothing. Blah, Well you shouldn't be
Speaker 3: worrying that you were asking for that. Fuck that. It's
Speaker 3: not the victim's fault, and.
Speaker 2: No it isn't. It isn't. I mean he was going
Speaker 2: there expecting to just have a day trade.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So after about a week on October tenth, Mark does
Speaker 2: it again. Of course, he successively lures a second man
Speaker 2: to the garage, and this time the victim did not
Speaker 2: get away. Oh fuck, I know. His name was John
Speaker 2: Brian Atlinger. He went by Johnny, so I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: calling him Johnny. He was a thirty eight year old male,
Speaker 2: tall with wispy hair and glasses. He had a warm
Speaker 2: grin and gentle eyes. His friends and family would describe
Speaker 2: him as quiet, affectionate, and a giving man. His life
Speaker 2: had its ups and downs, but he seemed to have
Speaker 2: found a good path or good place. But in two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, he owned a tidy bachelor pad which
Speaker 2: was a short distance to where he worked night shift
Speaker 2: as an oil field equipment manufacturer, sorry at an oil
Speaker 2: field equipment manufacturing.
Speaker 3: Business typical for Albert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Johnny had many interests, but computers in the
Speaker 2: online world was definitely one of them. The Internet gave
Speaker 2: Johnny away to meet people, and he ended up making
Speaker 2: some really good friends all right on.
Speaker 3: I mean the internet has opened the world for possibilities,
Speaker 3: for connections all over the place.
Speaker 2: Totally.
Speaker 3: I've made really good friends on the internet, So.
Speaker 1: I know, weird there.
Speaker 2: It's ansom to be so careful too, Like I'm like
Speaker 2: a cautious person, So I don't know. I mean, grant you,
Speaker 2: I guess over Instagram and stuff I've made. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: can acquaintances and stuff. So that's pretty much the same thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Or with your photography, people are booking you lots
Speaker 3: that way. Yeah, just over the internet.
Speaker 2: Then you show up with the shoot. Okay, if I
Speaker 2: ever show up a shoot and I have to go
Speaker 2: under a partially open garage door, it's not happening, people.
Speaker 3: No, stay out of the garage. Yeah, just come up.
Speaker 3: We're gonna do a boudoir session in the garage. Just
Speaker 3: crawl under the darkened door that is half broken and
Speaker 3: only a foot like off the ground. Yeah, crawl under there.
Speaker 2: There's no way on October tenth, Johnny thought he was
Speaker 2: going to connect with someone new. At this point, he
Speaker 2: was seriously looking for a woman to spend the rest
Speaker 2: of his life with. However, the woman he thought was
Speaker 2: named Jen was in fact not a woman at all,
Speaker 2: but Mark.
Speaker 3: Of course, of course Mark's an asshole.
Speaker 2: I know. I don't like Mark. We don't like him. Mark,
Speaker 2: who must have learned from his experience with Jill, was
Speaker 2: able to fulfill his fantasy to turn his House of
Speaker 2: Cards script into a reality. Thankfully, Johnny had informed his
Speaker 2: friends of his plans that evening, because following his disappearance,
Speaker 2: they were crucial in speeding the case so long. So
Speaker 2: that's a good point. I'm going to dive into that
Speaker 2: a bit more. So that's some good news. It was
Speaker 2: the Friday before Thanksgiving and Johnny had called his friend
Speaker 2: Dale Smith to say he'd met a woman or woman
Speaker 2: through an Internet dating site, but the woman refused to
Speaker 2: provide Johnny with an address, rather gave him directions to
Speaker 2: a back alley garage. Dale obviously thought these directions were
Speaker 2: sketch af and he told Johnny to give him a
Speaker 2: call when he got there and to give him the
Speaker 2: address before he went into the place. Dale, having known
Speaker 2: Johnny since Alelementary School and spoke to him almost daily,
Speaker 2: said that he was that his good natured friend sounded
Speaker 2: lighthearted on the phone. That night. He told him the
Speaker 2: woman wasn't there at the garage, but instead he met
Speaker 2: a man. Johnny said it was an odd encounter. The
Speaker 2: woman or the man in the garage said he was
Speaker 2: making a movie and showed him a replica handgun. Dale
Speaker 2: figured the date was over and that his friend would
Speaker 2: go home.
Speaker 3: M hmm.
Speaker 2: But less than an hour and a half later, Dale
Speaker 2: received an email from Johnny saying she's so now I'm
Speaker 2: heading over again. Dale thinks that was the last time
Speaker 2: he had ant real contact with Johnny.
Speaker 3: Okay, I see where this is going, do you? I
Speaker 3: think I do. Anyways, there's gonna be like some emails
Speaker 3: or contact back and forth where he's actually talking to
Speaker 3: Mark clearly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which I actually think that Dexter might have
Speaker 2: done that in the shows.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure it's been so long.
Speaker 2: We got to watch it again. So Dale tried to
Speaker 2: reach Johnny throughout the weekend, as they did have plans
Speaker 2: to meet up on Sunday, but he heard nothing from
Speaker 2: his friend. He finally received an email from him on Monday,
Speaker 2: along with some other friends, saying, I've met an extraordinary
Speaker 2: woman named Jen who has offered to take me on
Speaker 2: a nice long tropical vacation. Will be staying in her
Speaker 2: winter home in Costa Rica. Phone number to follow, see
Speaker 2: you around the holidays.
Speaker 3: Johnny, Wow, that's slightly suspicious.
Speaker 2: Like a super random email.
Speaker 3: Hey yeah, Right after He's contacted his friend saying yeah,
Speaker 3: that data was supposed to go on, yet it turned
Speaker 3: out to be a dude in a shady garage with
Speaker 3: a replica handgun.
Speaker 2: Oh, this email didn't sound right to Johnny's friends. He
Speaker 2: apparently hated the heat and never signed off his emails
Speaker 2: with his name, but rather with a joke. I think
Speaker 2: that's so fun. I want to start signing my emails
Speaker 2: off with a joke.
Speaker 3: Just dad jokes all the time, Growing more.
Speaker 2: And more concerned by the day. The following Friday, so
Speaker 2: October seventeenth, Dale and a few of the of his
Speaker 2: other friends drove to Johnny's apartment and broke in through
Speaker 2: a window. What they found there was Johnny's passport, luggage,
Speaker 2: and an apartment that did not look like the resident
Speaker 2: just took off for an extended tropical vacation figures right, Yeah, exactly. Apparently.
Speaker 2: An email also went to Johnny's boss with a resignation
Speaker 2: letter saying he had found a new path. The boss
Speaker 2: asked where to send his last check, but never heard
Speaker 2: anything back, and it was like, I didn't have this
Speaker 2: in the notes, but it was reported that he was
Speaker 2: owed like fifteen hundred bucks. So I'm dang pretty sure
Speaker 2: you'd be oled fifteen hundred bucks. You're going to answer
Speaker 2: that email?
Speaker 3: I mean, what's his information? We could send him banks
Speaker 3: then he could just you know, oh, deposit it.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: Ben. At that point, Johnny was reported missing to the police,
Speaker 2: and because his friends knew of his last whareboats, the
Speaker 2: police were led right to Mark.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's like a little a little
Speaker 2: bit of just like goodness of this story, Like, yeah, there's.
Speaker 3: A little bit of like precautions that they took. It
Speaker 3: didn't save them, but at least made sure that Mark
Speaker 3: was captured, yeah, or identified.
Speaker 2: I know. I just love that they were looking out
Speaker 2: for each other, really, is what I feel like. When
Speaker 2: Mark was initially questioned, he was not suspicious to the police.
Speaker 2: He was quite cooperative and actually wouldn't shut up. He
Speaker 2: made it seem as though the garage had many things
Speaker 2: out of place that he was unknown, that was unknown
Speaker 2: to him, like almost like someone had been using it,
Speaker 2: you know, without him knowing. It wasn't until he told
Speaker 2: them he had bought a red Mazda off a stranger
Speaker 2: for forty bucks and it was parked at a friend's
Speaker 2: house that they felt they might have their guy. That
Speaker 2: red Nazda just so happened to be Johnny's and something
Speaker 2: the police were looking for the police. Oh, sorry, we're
Speaker 2: going to say something.
Speaker 3: Why would he have told them that he has Johnny's car? Like,
Speaker 3: why would he have said that?
Speaker 2: Oh? There was a reasoning why he said that. I think, well,
Speaker 2: because it was at his friend's house and the police
Speaker 2: were like also contacting the friends and stuff.
Speaker 3: Okay, so it was going to be found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think, yeah, this was okay. This was
Speaker 2: even after he was questioned in person. He sent an
Speaker 2: email I think saying this. I'm just like, I don't
Speaker 2: know he I mean, he knows that he was going
Speaker 2: to get caught. I think he was just he was
Speaker 2: he was being smart about it.
Speaker 3: I guess he was trying to cover his tracks, but
Speaker 3: he knew he was pretty much backed into a corner. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I gotcha.
Speaker 2: The police then confiscated Mark's car, which contained a laptop.
Speaker 2: A laptop in the drunk On that laptop was a
Speaker 2: document that had been previously deleted, but they recovered it
Speaker 2: and it was titled s K Confessions, which stood for
Speaker 2: serial killer Confessions.
Speaker 3: Oh, oh my god, is he really that fucking dumb?
Speaker 2: It began with the passage The story is based on
Speaker 2: true events. The names and events were altered slightly to
Speaker 2: protect the guilty. This is the story of my progression
Speaker 2: into becoming a serial killer. It detailed every moment of
Speaker 2: the victim's slaughter, from the plan to use the dating
Speaker 2: site to lure them in to the glee taken in
Speaker 2: carefully dismembering the body. It was a forty two page
Speaker 2: document and had other passages such as I grabbed his
Speaker 2: jaw with my gloved hand and moved it while making
Speaker 2: a funny noise to make it look like it was talking,
Speaker 2: and chuckled to mindself the stillness of it all.
Speaker 3: Okay, first of all, how dumb do you have to
Speaker 3: be to make the write down any.
Speaker 2: Sort of I know confession Like see Okay, I warned
Speaker 2: you as at the beginning, he is not a dexter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and second of all, how fucking pretentious are you
Speaker 3: to write your own basically biography of this sort of
Speaker 3: stuff like that? Like, what the fuck is going through
Speaker 3: this guy's head? What a tool?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like, well, here, I'll just finish this one section.
Speaker 2: He talked about cutting open the torso of the victim
Speaker 2: and watching the organ slowly collapse. Mark wrote down everything
Speaker 2: in that diary, but claimed to the police that it
Speaker 2: was only fiction. Of course, So he's like a filmmaker
Speaker 2: and he's just saying, oh, this is just like my
Speaker 2: next story or whatever, and it's not real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I doubt that.
Speaker 2: It wasn't until October thirty first that Mark was actually arrested,
Speaker 2: after police got word that Johnny's blood was found in
Speaker 2: the trunk of his car. Got him, They got him.
Speaker 2: The lead investigator of the case believe Johnny is actually
Speaker 2: a hero. By him communicating to his friends and letting
Speaker 2: them know of his whereabouts, he saved this from happening
Speaker 2: to anyone else. Mark could have remained under raider for
Speaker 2: much longer if someone didn't know of Johnny's whereaboats.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that on him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we kind of already touched on that, but that
Speaker 2: the investigators recognized it. They had told that to Johnny's mom,
Speaker 2: so I'm like, oh, the police were armed with evidence.
Speaker 2: It was noted most homicide files take up two or
Speaker 2: three three inch binders of evidence and notes and such,
Speaker 2: but they had twenty one binders on.
Speaker 3: Mark, Mark marking my boy, you fucked dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like they just had like freaking evidence coming
Speaker 2: out of the phraw. It's believed Johnny was hit over
Speaker 2: the head with the pipe shortly after entering the darkened garage,
Speaker 2: stabbed to death, and then dismembered on the table inside
Speaker 2: the garage. His body was then partially burned in a
Speaker 2: barrel and dumped down a sewer in an alley located
Speaker 2: close to Mark's parents' house. The remains in that sewer
Speaker 2: weren't actually not found until two years later, after Mark
Speaker 2: had finally disclosed their location, so the family like didn't
Speaker 2: have closure for quite some time. Really freaking jerk, no kidding.
Speaker 2: Blood was apparently everywhere, according to evidence, And I'm going
Speaker 2: to paint a little bit of a picture here for you,
Speaker 2: So I do apologize ahead of time.
Speaker 3: I just want to say, you might want to think
Speaker 3: your choice the words. I don't know if you did
Speaker 3: it on purpose. Blood was everywhere. I'm gonna paint a
Speaker 3: picture like wow.
Speaker 2: All right you okay, No, I didn't mean that. Oh gosh.
Speaker 3: Ah sorry.
Speaker 2: Blood stained the cement of the kill room seeped into
Speaker 2: the teeth and joints of the knives and saws and
Speaker 2: other butcher tools that were used to dismember Johnny reports
Speaker 2: a heavy duty carving kit was used normally used by
Speaker 2: hunters to chop up like moose and gear and stuff.
Speaker 2: Kind of like, honestly, just like reading this and when
Speaker 2: I was doing my research, like I kind of lots
Speaker 2: of times, my stomach was just like not feeling quite great.
Speaker 3: But well, I mean it sounds like this guy was
Speaker 3: going through some fucking shit.
Speaker 2: So yeah, blood was on the makeshift metal table of
Speaker 2: his alleged kill room, which is just gross because he
Speaker 2: had gotten his crew members from the House of Cards
Speaker 2: film to make that, right, so they had no idea
Speaker 2: what they were like actually making.
Speaker 3: They've literally made a butcher table for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, blood saturated the end of a copper pipe mark
Speaker 2: used to club Johnny blood was on Mark's pants, stitching
Speaker 2: of hoodie, car, computer, keyboard, hockey masks, cleaning supplies. Blood
Speaker 2: was even found on Mark's shoe and belt he was
Speaker 2: wearing at the time he was rested three weeks after
Speaker 2: the murder.
Speaker 3: So he did not clean shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have it in here SEEO dexter sloppy sloppy slough.
Speaker 3: No kidding, Decks does not leave anything behind.
Speaker 2: No, like, because I know he did the whole like
Speaker 2: plastic thing and stuff, but like clearly did a shit job.
Speaker 3: No kidding now because he's like this amateur filmmaker dude
Speaker 3: or whatever. Did he? Was there any video evidence of
Speaker 3: this found because he probably recorded.
Speaker 2: Some, not that I actually researched. I don't think he
Speaker 2: videoed it. No, I don't think he videoed it, not
Speaker 2: from anything I.
Speaker 3: Saw, because wasn't the entire purpose of him doing this
Speaker 3: was to fulfill his horror.
Speaker 2: They had whatever, they had filmed a film, and he
Speaker 2: was just his fantasy was like to replicate that, oh,
Speaker 2: to replicate it, oh like in real life. But I
Speaker 2: don't think he wasn't like filming it to put him
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 3: Okay. I thought he was like, I want to make
Speaker 3: the best horror film ever, and I'm going to do
Speaker 3: it like legit and okay.
Speaker 2: No, I think, and I think I touched on it later.
Speaker 2: But he just had a fantasy of like actually killing someone.
Speaker 3: He's a fucking tool, that's what he is.
Speaker 2: And at this point they were the police were obviously
Speaker 2: convinced that the deleted document on Mark's laptop is a
Speaker 2: true account of Johnny's murder, because remember he said that
Speaker 2: it was. Yeah, the document had also mentioned another victim, Jill's,
Speaker 2: who had mentioned earlier. This is the point where Jills
Speaker 2: does come forward. The police put out a picture of
Speaker 2: the mask they believe Mark was wearing during the attacks
Speaker 2: in hopes to find the victim, and then at this
Speaker 2: point Jill's come forward and he was there to be
Speaker 2: able to testify against Mark in court. So he did,
Speaker 2: you know, he came forward, which I think is great, Yeah.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent, But if he only came forward a
Speaker 3: little sooner, he.
Speaker 2: No, if he came forward right away, yeah, yeah. It's
Speaker 2: believed Mark's motive was purely for the experience of killing
Speaker 2: another person and to make a more authentic serial killer movie,
Speaker 2: so it was almost like research for him. Then, really,
Speaker 2: I think. Mark was found a first degree murder and
Speaker 2: sent to life in prison with no chance of parole
Speaker 2: for twenty five years.
Speaker 3: You should get more than that.
Speaker 2: I know he should never get out. Really, I didn't
Speaker 2: want to touch too much on the trial because I
Speaker 2: feel like it's kind of obvious that the right decision
Speaker 2: was made, but I did want to give an idea
Speaker 2: of the closing arguments of the trial. He's a bit wild.
Speaker 2: The crown said Mark is a man who had an
Speaker 2: elaborate plan to kill a stranger, while the defense said
Speaker 2: Mark was involved in an altercation that spun out of control.
Speaker 2: And to touch on this, Mark had admitted he posed
Speaker 2: as a woman on the internet to lure Johnny to
Speaker 2: the garage, but it was only a hoax for a
Speaker 2: movie project. Mark said Johnny became enraged when he learned
Speaker 2: he wasn't meeting a date and attacked him with a pipe,
Speaker 2: causing Mark to stab Johnny in self defense. But that pipe,
Speaker 2: that the pipe had Johnny's blood on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was just gonna say, But there's
Speaker 3: no evidence of that. The evidence is the pipe was
Speaker 3: beaten Johnny over the head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like, I don't know I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: lawyers and stuff are great, but I just couldn't imagine
Speaker 2: like the defense lawyer, Like I couldn't imagine being a
Speaker 2: lawyer and defend someone like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't. It's it's got to be a slimy
Speaker 3: kind of person to be able to do that for someone.
Speaker 2: Or they're just literally doing it for making money, right, Well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they they disconnect themselves from what's actually going on.
Speaker 3: They're just Okay, this is my job. I got to
Speaker 3: do it, and they do.
Speaker 2: It because twenty one pages of evidence or twenty one
Speaker 2: binders not pages bindersers.
Speaker 3: Man, I could not do that job. I could not
Speaker 3: defend someone that. I'd be like, I'm defending you, okay,
Speaker 3: and I get into court. He's fucking guilty. He confessed.
Speaker 3: I heard him in the back room. Here's a recording.
Speaker 3: Send him to jail.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that would be your only lawyer your
Speaker 2: case because he done worth of it.
Speaker 3: Sent someone to jail deserves it.
Speaker 2: This is really interesting too. So since Mark's been in prison,
Speaker 2: it's been reported that he purchased a TV and has
Speaker 2: caught up on every Dexter episode since he was arrested.
Speaker 2: I'm like that show should be banned from him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 2: The author who played Dexter, Michael C. Hall, was interviewed
Speaker 2: at one point about the case, stating that he didn't
Speaker 2: think Dexter supported the lifestyle of killers. He said, I
Speaker 2: would hope that people's appreciation was more than some sort
Speaker 2: of fetishization with the kill scenes. I wouldn't stop making
Speaker 2: Dexter because someone was fascinated by it. Only in that way.
Speaker 2: I try to tell myself their fixated nature would have
Speaker 2: done it one way or the other. But it seems
Speaker 2: that Dexter had something to do with it. It's horrifying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is horrifying. Well, Dexter's whole thing, though, is
Speaker 3: he has this like almost monster living in him that
Speaker 3: like has this insatiable need to kill. And so what
Speaker 3: he does is he uses that when he does have
Speaker 3: to feed it, he kills those who are killing others.
Speaker 3: So he's trying to use it for good, almost like
Speaker 3: a superhero in a way. Yeah, where he's trying to
Speaker 3: take out murderers and that's all he does. Where this
Speaker 3: guy just prayed on an innocent fucking person that is
Speaker 3: not Dexter.
Speaker 2: Remember in the House of Cards film, thing that it
Speaker 2: was like someone who was cheating on their wife, but
Speaker 2: then he didn't actually go out and get someone that
Speaker 2: was bad, Like Johnny seems like he's amazing well.
Speaker 3: And cheating on on someone. I mean, yeah, that's a
Speaker 3: bad fucking thing. Don't fucking do that. That doesn't mean
Speaker 3: you should get fucking murdered. No, I mean you should
Speaker 3: be fucking divorced and left single and that person you
Speaker 3: cheated on should move on to better things.
Speaker 2: And yeah, because Dexter, like the people were really bad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I actually think it's coming back to me. I feel
Speaker 2: like it was his dad or his stepdad or something
Speaker 2: that had known Dexter had this dark side and they
Speaker 2: had Yeah, they had made this like packed or whatever
Speaker 2: that every you're needing to fulfill your fantasy. It's like
Speaker 2: a bad person. I need to watch the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was something about how he taught them to
Speaker 3: use it as an outlet and like, yeah, if you
Speaker 3: got to do it, like do it to someone who
Speaker 3: deserves it exactly to do good in the long run.
Speaker 2: This is also ugh, I feel like.
Speaker 3: Dexter would have killed this dude. Lastly, Dexter would have
Speaker 3: killed this fucker.
Speaker 2: He totally would have one hundred percent. This other thing. Oh,
Speaker 2: I just hate I hate this too. Apparently Mark has
Speaker 2: a profile online on Canadian Inmates Connect and I had
Speaker 2: never heard of this. So this is a site that
Speaker 2: helps prisoners find pen pals on the outside. It's thirty
Speaker 2: five dollars for a yearly profile. Inmates don't have access
Speaker 2: to the Internet or email, so they mail in their application.
Speaker 2: The woman who runs the site said she hasn't refused
Speaker 2: anyone and that every Canadian inmate deserves the right to
Speaker 2: connect with the outside world, regardless of their crime. She says,
Speaker 2: their crime should define them. They're in prison and that's
Speaker 2: their punishment. They've lost their freedom, so why continue to
Speaker 2: keep punishing them?
Speaker 3: But that is giving them a little more freedom though, And.
Speaker 2: Okay, well I understand people totally fine, but not him,
Speaker 2: Like he used a profile like that to kill someone. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: I just don't think everyone should should be okay with this'.
Speaker 3: That's a there's two sides to that coin. I mean,
Speaker 3: she is right, they like some people could take advantage
Speaker 3: of that, and and sorry not take advantage, but they
Speaker 3: could use that in a good way and maybe might
Speaker 3: help rehabilitate that Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: There was stories where it was it was helpful for some.
Speaker 3: But there are other cases where it's like, yeah, he's
Speaker 3: done this exact thing in the past, take advantage of
Speaker 3: it and used it to kill someone like man, his
Speaker 3: freedom has been taken away. He shouldn't have the freedom
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: I think something like that should go through an application process,
Speaker 3: like you said, but she shouldn't just be accepting everyone.
Speaker 2: And that's some I think some people should totally be.
Speaker 2: And it was also said that what did it say
Speaker 2: that there's a clause on there? Because if something from
Speaker 2: this goes bad, like what say, if Mark like meets
Speaker 2: someone and then gets out or whatever and then kills them, Like,
Speaker 2: that's not on her.
Speaker 3: If you have to have a clause like that, maybe
Speaker 3: you should look at your fucking program and prevent that
Speaker 3: thing from happening in the first place.
Speaker 2: I know, fuck, I have it on here. I was
Speaker 2: going to say, Mark's what Mark's profile says. I'm looking
Speaker 2: for an interesting, intelligent, open minding, open minded, delightfully imperfect
Speaker 2: woman to relate to and share amusing observations with, as
Speaker 2: well as potentially a long weekend every few months if
Speaker 2: it gets there. Naturally. Also on his profile is his
Speaker 2: expected release date of twenty twenty seven, which is actually
Speaker 2: not that far away.
Speaker 3: He needs to rot for the rest of his life.
Speaker 2: But then I think that I don't know from other
Speaker 2: stuff I've read, like he's doing good in prison, so he's,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like that's only six years away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you want to do you want to create
Speaker 3: a profile on catfish? As fucker?
Speaker 2: I know, I even when I was like, when I'm
Speaker 2: presenting this, people might be like, I need a doctor him. Okay,
Speaker 2: So this is just basically the last part and I
Speaker 2: literally hate everything about this, but I'm going to say
Speaker 2: it anyway, all laid on us. Though none of Mark's
Speaker 2: films were ever released good. He went on to star
Speaker 2: on International News, a Datelight and Dateline NBC episode, and
Speaker 2: a book for what he did to Johnny, which is
Speaker 2: just kind of disgusting when you think about it. His
Speaker 2: dream was to make blockbuster films, but he became the
Speaker 2: star of his show and became famous. Anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the thing is, I mean, even us talking about
Speaker 3: him now is kind of giving him that that satisfaction,
Speaker 3: which kind of hurts. Is why we try and try
Speaker 3: and tell the perspective of the victim more so than anything. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but this guy's trash. He doesn't deserve this notoriety that
Speaker 3: he's getting.
Speaker 2: I know. And like I said it at the beginning,
Speaker 2: he was even married and had like an infant, like
Speaker 2: a child under one at the time.
Speaker 1: Jeez.
Speaker 2: So that poor little girl like growing growing up to
Speaker 2: know that your dad did something like this.
Speaker 3: It's disgusting. I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the dexter killer of Edmonton, Alberta.
Speaker 3: Ooh okay, this was like two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Eight, thousand and eight. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's already getting out, like in two thousand
Speaker 3: and seven. That's not even two nineteen years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he had it said that he had got
Speaker 2: twenty five years or had to have minimum of twenty
Speaker 2: five years. I don't know. Maybe he's just being optimistic.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe because you said that he's like doing really good,
Speaker 3: showing signs of rehabilitation, maybe they've lessened his sentence. Yeah,
Speaker 3: which I mean, if you get fucking life in jail
Speaker 3: twenty five years or whatever with no chance parole or anything,
Speaker 3: you should get that.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: It seems like every fucking case we look up or
Speaker 3: research or I listen to on other podcasts, they're like,
Speaker 3: you're going to jail for X amount of time and
Speaker 3: then not even close to that time, they're just out
Speaker 3: walking the streets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like what the fuck? But then after even a
Speaker 2: length the amount of time in prison, I don't know,
Speaker 2: we'll probably come across some cases. I think there are,
Speaker 2: like I think the majority of them don't reoffend.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna tell you right now the case that
Speaker 3: I'm researching for next week.
Speaker 2: Okay, am I gonna just eat my words right now?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this dude uh in and out in and out,
Speaker 3: in and out. Oh, let's just say that.
Speaker 2: Okay, yep, huh. I mean especially too because like this
Speaker 2: was Mark's first offense, right, so, yeah, I don't know
Speaker 2: it'd be interesting. I mean, it's not interesting at all.
Speaker 2: It's actually like horrifying. I was gonna say, to see
Speaker 2: if he does something when he gets so, but that's
Speaker 2: just a horrifying thought.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't want to see him ever get out now,
Speaker 3: but clearly he's apparently going to Yeah.
Speaker 2: Probably, but we have a bit of time before that happens, so.
Speaker 3: It's still still it's not enough time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'll put up some pictures and such on
Speaker 2: our Instagram. What do I I actually saved a ton
Speaker 2: of photos from this case, so I'm gonna have to
Speaker 2: pick what. I'll definitely put a picture of Johnny.
Speaker 3: Well, you can put up like those like kalash things
Speaker 3: where it's like a group of like a bunch of photos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could do that. Yeah, but I'll definitely put
Speaker 2: one of Johnny because I think that he was actually
Speaker 2: a really good person.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I agree.
Speaker 2: And this should not have happened to him.
Speaker 3: That's terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: Everyone, Yeah, we appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2: Are you going to give us any any hints on
Speaker 2: what your next one's going to be on?
Speaker 3: Well, the next one I will. I'll give you guys
Speaker 3: a hint. The next one's actually a recommended case from
Speaker 3: Kristin out there. Thank you Kristin, a friend of mine
Speaker 3: from like way back in the day. Awesome. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: she wrecked commended the what was it called his title again,
Speaker 3: the dating game Killer because he actually starred on that
Speaker 3: classic dating game you know where it's like Bachelor number one,
Speaker 3: what would you do on a date? And Bachelor number two?
Speaker 3: What would you like? That sort of stuff. Yeah, he
Speaker 3: actually starred on that show in the midst of his
Speaker 3: whole ordeal.
Speaker 1: Oh boy.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and that's from the States, right, it is,
Speaker 3: and it takes place back in the seventies.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, because I actually recognize or that brings a
Speaker 2: bell to me, but I didn't realize it was so
Speaker 2: long ago. Yeah, I was not born at that time.
Speaker 3: No, we were a little bit afterwards. We're eighties babies.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, that's exciting.
Speaker 3: So that's what's coming up next week. And I think
Speaker 3: you did a great job in this case. And honestly,
Speaker 3: what was this dude's name again, I'm trying to forget
Speaker 3: his names, you know what, let's not even say his name.
Speaker 3: The dude who committed these crimes. Fuck him, he's trash.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he is in the place he deserves right now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I hope he stays there for a little bit percent.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for doing a great episode, babe. It make
Speaker 3: sure you guys.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was like, what I was pointing to you
Speaker 2: to do it, stay wicked.
Speaker 3: There you go.