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Speaker 9: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 9: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 9: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK.
Speaker 9: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 9: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 9: your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good Evening, Cleveland
Speaker 9: Strangler's Best Kept Secrets revealed. A man fights for justice
Speaker 9: and closure for an ex girlfriend, an unknown survivor the
Speaker 9: first to report to authorities her brutal attack by the
Speaker 9: then nameless emerging Cleveland Strangler. Sadly, her case was suspended
Speaker 9: within four months. A year later, Anthony Sole would begin
Speaker 9: his killing spree, the infamous eleven women of Imperial Avenue,
Speaker 9: all strangled and stashed in and around his home. Why
Speaker 9: didn't Cleveland police take this woman's case serious? Did the
Speaker 9: city of Cleveland fail to comply with the federal Megan's Law?
Speaker 9: Was their community notification of a register's sex offender in
Speaker 9: the neighborhood? Is the county psychiatric.
Speaker 3: Liable for their sexual evaluation prediction which was low risk
Speaker 3: to reoffend six percent chance of reoffending and that was
Speaker 3: September two thousand and five. The Cleveland Strangler lured and
Speaker 3: attacked Vernice Croucher in June two thousand and six, and
Speaker 3: the Soul murders occurred two thousand and seven to two
Speaker 3: thousand and nine. The book that we're featuring this evening
Speaker 3: is My Sister's Keeper, The Cleveland Serial Killers Untold Story
Speaker 3: with my special guest journalist and author C. D. Newton.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for
Speaker 3: agreeing to this interview.
Speaker 6: C D.
Speaker 3: Newton.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much, Dank for covering having me on
Speaker 6: your show. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Let's I normally ask what brought
Speaker 3: you to this story, how you came to write this story,
Speaker 3: But the story itself is how you came to this story.
Speaker 3: So let's jump right into this fascinating and incredible case
Speaker 3: and story. Tell us about Vernice, sorry, talk about Let's
Speaker 3: tell us about Vernice Creucher and Hirst. Tell us a
Speaker 3: little bit about yourself to introduce your background before we
Speaker 3: talk about Bernice s Crucher and Anthony Soul in the
Speaker 3: Cleveland Strangler.
Speaker 6: Certainly by education and trade, my background is in architecture
Speaker 6: and engineering, but I always had a fascination with storytelling,
Speaker 6: so I'm also a playwright and a writer. Bernice Skrutcher
Speaker 6: and I began a relationship sometime about the spring of
Speaker 6: two thousand and four, and this tragedy occurred about a
Speaker 6: couple of years later. With regards to Reddie's Crutcher, it
Speaker 6: should be in the interest of full disclosures. She does
Speaker 6: have a problem with addiction and mental health issues, and
Speaker 6: basically those are the type of victims that Anthony Sill
Speaker 6: will target it. But what's fascinated about this particular case
Speaker 6: Bernice Crutcher. At that time, June eighteen, two thousand and six,
Speaker 6: she was lured and forced inside of an abandoned house
Speaker 6: where she was attacked by then after me so well
Speaker 6: and unfortunately, he resumed that he had killed her and
Speaker 6: abandoned her inside the house. I presumed dead, but miraculously,
Speaker 6: fifteen hours later, Britany s Puerto Rican consciousness. She staggered
Speaker 6: over to her friend's house, where he immediately called nine
Speaker 6: one one. She was rushed to the r and that's
Speaker 6: where I received the phone call. And from that day
Speaker 6: forward June nineteen, two thousand and six, then an interesting
Speaker 6: ordeal to get her justice and closure. Sadly, unbeknownst to us,
Speaker 6: four months after her attack, her case, as you mentioned,
Speaker 6: it was suspended. I believe it was due to the
Speaker 6: fact that when they didn't receive a match inside of COTUS,
Speaker 6: which is the national database of sex offenders, the case
Speaker 6: was suspended. And unfortunately that was a very terrible decision
Speaker 6: for the residents of Cleveland. And about two and a
Speaker 6: half years later after her attack, about the fall of
Speaker 6: November two thousand and nine, the bodies eleven bodies were
Speaker 6: discovering in and around Anthony soul was home, and as
Speaker 6: he continued, evidence and facts and information continued to come
Speaker 6: out of that Imperial Avenue tragedy. Bernie and I noticed
Speaker 6: some similarities with some of the other survivors in her case,
Speaker 6: and I actually showed her a dew Scrutcher, an earlier
Speaker 6: photograph of mister Sowell and asked her is this your attacker?
Speaker 6: And within a flit second she said to me, yes,
Speaker 6: that's him. So from that point four we went to
Speaker 6: the sex crime unit at Indy Victim Wood and we
Speaker 6: tried to say justice enclosure for but unfortunately constant adventure
Speaker 6: by it indifferent those have been hurt as that we've
Speaker 6: been trying to overcome in order to get her justice
Speaker 6: and closure, and we've been at as better ever since.
Speaker 6: And now we're on that third prosecutor. They try to
Speaker 6: present this case to this cold case, to him that
Speaker 6: he does have overwhelming facts and evidence to indict Anthony Sowell.
Speaker 6: And that's where we are.
Speaker 3: Now, let's go back, as you eloquently do in this book.
Speaker 3: It's incredible the access that you have obviously by being
Speaker 3: having Vernice's a girlfriend, and you meet her whole family, Wilma, Brenda,
Speaker 3: her entire family, and you bring a different face to
Speaker 3: and reality to prostitution for the same for this drug addiction.
Speaker 3: So the drug addiction driving everything and affecting everything. But
Speaker 3: still again we hear this is cliche, people with families,
Speaker 3: people with loved ones that care well. This is the
Speaker 3: most fantastic story about the reality of people that are
Speaker 3: vulnerable and have drug problems. Then, as you say, mental
Speaker 3: health issues, but as we do as you do in
Speaker 3: this book, let's go back to the attack for people
Speaker 3: to understand again the signature that you compared this with
Speaker 3: when you get the phone call after she's attacked, tell
Speaker 3: us about what you experience going to visit Vernice, and
Speaker 3: like you say, from that moment on, you're inextricably involved.
Speaker 3: But tell us about the attack and what she told
Speaker 3: you about the attack, and what did Anthony Sowell do
Speaker 3: to Vernice cruture.
Speaker 6: Well. Thirdly, once I went into the with a lot
Speaker 6: of going to the emergency room and I had look
Speaker 6: at her, that was a life autery moment. On the
Speaker 6: cover of the book, I tried to give you as
Speaker 6: just a glimpse, it's sort of lord Alt, but you
Speaker 6: can see it a before shot where Bernise is very attractive.
Speaker 6: This is before the attack. She's a very luminous, attractive
Speaker 6: female and the actor you can see that she'd suffered
Speaker 6: some injuries to her head, in her face, and when
Speaker 6: I was in the emergency room, I can tell that
Speaker 6: this was a very vicious and heinous attack. She had
Speaker 6: suffered multiple lacerations, beating, and she had a very pronounced
Speaker 6: visible white ring around her throat which I later discovered
Speaker 6: a cord was used to strangle her, which they later
Speaker 6: found in the crime scene. Now, that particular injury, little
Speaker 6: did I know, will become a signature calling card for
Speaker 6: future attacks that the later victims would also suffer strangulation.
Speaker 3: You talked, Sorry, go ahead now, I'm.
Speaker 6: Just thinking back in terms of the emotions that went
Speaker 6: through me at that point in time. It was just,
Speaker 6: like said, it was just the most horrific thing I've
Speaker 6: ever seen in my life. I had never seen a
Speaker 6: woman injured to that extent, and actually I thought that
Speaker 6: day that Bernice was not going to survive. But as
Speaker 6: I stated later, did I find out that this actually
Speaker 6: became his signature matter of attack. And then these will
Speaker 6: fit the profile of subsequent victims, women who suffer from
Speaker 6: drug addiction, prone to solicitation, and those who also have
Speaker 6: mental health issues, because these are very vulnerable moments of
Speaker 6: our society, as you mentioned. But this is where I
Speaker 6: fought the city of Cleveland County when it comes to
Speaker 6: sex offenders. Anthony saul As the September of two thousand
Speaker 6: and five, nine months before her attack, was a registered
Speaker 6: sex defender. He had just served fifteen years in prison
Speaker 6: for rape, and he moved into Impure Avenue on June
Speaker 6: of two thousand and five, which is about three miles
Speaker 6: away from where he met Bernice, on East seventy ninth
Speaker 6: Street in Cleveland's on the east side so even though
Speaker 6: he was a mystery to her, he wasn't a mystery
Speaker 6: to law enforcement. And for some strange reason, the County
Speaker 6: Psychiatric Court, as you mentioned in the introduction, when they
Speaker 6: did their evaluation on Mississau, they determine his predictability of
Speaker 6: repeating his offense again. The psychiatrist came to the conclusion
Speaker 6: that he would be a six percent chance to reoffend
Speaker 6: within five years. My research reveals that the questionnaire that
Speaker 6: was used for mister Solwell, which contains SAT questions, it's
Speaker 6: referred to as Static ninety nine. Nineteen ninety nine was
Speaker 6: a year that did some particular instrument was introduced, but
Speaker 6: the creative over a course of time roleized that it
Speaker 6: was inadequate, so they introduced a static two thousand and two.
Speaker 6: For some strange reason, the city of Cleveland was still
Speaker 6: using in two thousand and five Static ninety nine one
Speaker 6: that was determined to be flawed and inadequate, So as
Speaker 6: far as I'm concerned, they did not issue the proper
Speaker 6: In addition to the fact that in nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 6: then President William Jefferson Clinton signed into law which is
Speaker 6: called Megan's Law, the Community Notification Act which required that
Speaker 6: states and local municipalities informed communities when they registered sex
Speaker 6: offender move into their neighborhood, and often that's done through
Speaker 6: posts paid postcards which contains the regissex defender's photographs, his address,
Speaker 6: and a brief description of was his defensive sone work. Well,
Speaker 6: that was an issue for that community, for the Guard
Speaker 6: Valley area and the Mount Pleasant area. And so now
Speaker 6: you have this volatile cocktail mix. You have women who
Speaker 6: are prone to drug addiction, but then you also have
Speaker 6: these civic failures and so for a period of time
Speaker 6: between two thousand and five and two thousand and nine,
Speaker 6: those women were vulnerable. And unfortunately, the reality is the
Speaker 6: city that's want to take responsibility for it. And I
Speaker 6: think that also comes in a place that the reason
Speaker 6: why her case is not swiftly being given justice and
Speaker 6: closure because unlike some of the other survivors, Pernice actually
Speaker 6: reported gave a physical description. And here's another fasceting twist
Speaker 6: to this, because you didn't expect for the survivor and
Speaker 6: she did. She went forward provided a physical description and
Speaker 6: right on the front cover of my book, I have
Speaker 6: a digital lineup that I created the drawing of the
Speaker 6: suspect that appeared in our city's largest newspaper on June
Speaker 6: thirty of two thousand and six, So that means close
Speaker 6: to a million people actually saw Anthony Soula's description he's
Speaker 6: a registered sex defender nine months previously, but no one
Speaker 6: would bother to connect the dots. Any unfortunate reason is
Speaker 6: because the victims that were primarily attacked came from a
Speaker 6: disenfranchised community. But had there been a more as student
Speaker 6: investigation that didn't rely solely on DNA, a DNA hit,
Speaker 6: and a more thorough investigation, the chances are they would
Speaker 6: have apprehended him and those eleven women will still be
Speaker 6: alive today.
Speaker 3: Let's get back to the personal end of this which
Speaker 3: is a very very important component of this book and
Speaker 3: the most profound, I would say, in terms of impact
Speaker 3: on the reader. And that's we didn't talk about. You
Speaker 3: talked about the lacerations to Vernice's face, but tell us
Speaker 3: what he does in terms that will maim her physically
Speaker 3: and psychologically for life.
Speaker 6: Well, certainly being a female. You know, beauty, it's very
Speaker 6: important to any woman. I mean, that's their presentation, that's
Speaker 6: their strength, that's their power, that's their guy given gift, well,
Speaker 6: Antony thought I actually took that from her, and sadly,
Speaker 6: and this is a bit of a flock spoiler, the
Speaker 6: injuries result in the lost of her right eye, so
Speaker 6: now she's physically mutilated. She without her right eye, now
Speaker 6: she had to look at the world through just her
Speaker 6: left eye, and now she has these private scards and
Speaker 6: lacks of race. So psychologically the aftermath, she's been having
Speaker 6: a hard time dealing with that, and even though the
Speaker 6: wounds did begin to heal surprising really quickly within a
Speaker 6: few months, the emotional scars last a lifetime. And to
Speaker 6: add more insult to injury, the fact that she's been
Speaker 6: victimized by the criminal justice system and law enforcement where
Speaker 6: they're reluctant to give her her constitutional justice and closure.
Speaker 6: So that certainly has had a devastating impact on her
Speaker 6: mentally and emotionally. Because Renice also suffers from chronic depression,
Speaker 6: So the fact that other survivors who had not reported
Speaker 6: their case, exciving their attack at the time that they occurred,
Speaker 6: or were skipped swiftly given indictments, that's also weighed very
Speaker 6: heavily upon her psyche as well. So it's been a
Speaker 6: very try romantic ordeal for her, and it would certainly
Speaker 6: give her justice enclosure to be in that courtroom to
Speaker 6: express her outrage to him and at the same time
Speaker 6: holds the system and it's missteps accountable. It would completely
Speaker 6: change the narrative, and I think that's one of the
Speaker 6: reasons why the prosecutor this office in the city is
Speaker 6: reluctant about doing it. But be bit as it may,
Speaker 6: the law of the law, and so rule of law
Speaker 6: has to prevail instead of bias or conflict adventures, because
Speaker 6: it in fact in her life dramatically physically, mentally, and emotionally,
Speaker 6: and that healing will not take place until she has
Speaker 6: her day in court. I was there those initial months
Speaker 6: of the horrible nightmares of her relibity attack. You know,
Speaker 6: for some reason, Vernice wanted to spend her recuperation with me,
Speaker 6: so I, you know, open up my home tour allow
Speaker 6: her to have the bad room. I took the sofa
Speaker 6: for months. I would apply the necessary treatment to her wounds,
Speaker 6: change her un bloody gauzes with fresh on gauzles before
Speaker 6: I went off to work, and that transition period where
Speaker 6: I can remember vividly it was very difficult for her
Speaker 6: and so the real healing will take place as it
Speaker 6: would any rape survivor. It's when it can look they're
Speaker 6: selling in the eye and express what he did to her,
Speaker 6: how he changed her life, and simultaneously let the cystem know.
Speaker 6: When you make the steps, you also have to take responsibility.
Speaker 6: You have to be accountable as well. There's no such
Speaker 6: thing as a disposed to human beings, whether with the
Speaker 6: person that is disenfranchised of limited means of life or
Speaker 6: wall off, or an entertain or celebrity. Every person who
Speaker 6: is a victim is entitled to the proper healing process.
Speaker 6: They're entitled to justice.
Speaker 3: Let's discuss something that I imagine if somebody was criticizing this,
Speaker 3: they would come up with this one issue. And so
Speaker 3: let's deal with this contentious issue. As you explained originally,
Speaker 3: Vernice does a description accomposite drawing and is happy with
Speaker 3: it to a certain extent. She obviously traumatized and wants
Speaker 3: to get out of there, so she has enough too
Speaker 3: much patience. But she said that she was pretty happy
Speaker 3: with it, but it had far too much hair. And
Speaker 3: then you discover through your investigation what could have happened
Speaker 3: when she looked at a photo, and because of when
Speaker 3: that photo was taken, tell us about the photo controvert,
Speaker 3: she as you do explain in.
Speaker 6: The book Very good Den, I can take you ready. Well, yes,
Speaker 6: Initially in the on the front page of the October
Speaker 6: thirty first, two thousand and nine Plane Dealer, the City
Speaker 6: and I guess the nation for the first time sees
Speaker 6: a photograph of Anthony Sowell. He's a suspect, He's a
Speaker 6: wanted man. That photo describes Anthony Sowell, six feet tall,
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty five pounds. When I first showed
Speaker 6: Brennan's crutcher that photograph, she stared at it for about
Speaker 6: three minutes, dead silence. I can tell I can see
Speaker 6: the gears in her mind turning. But after she stared
Speaker 6: after inside of the foot for a while, she said
Speaker 6: to me, No, that's not him. Now, mind you. I've
Speaker 6: been reading every piece of day I can get my
Speaker 6: hands on about this gentleman, and I'm saying to myself,
Speaker 6: this got to be him, based upon what I knew
Speaker 6: transpired her attack two and a half years earlier. So
Speaker 6: I said to myself, there's got to be something wrong here.
Speaker 6: So I took to the internet, did a little more
Speaker 6: research found an earlier photograph of him, which of course
Speaker 6: I provide on the front purp of the book, the
Speaker 6: two photographs of the writer's action photographs, the f one
Speaker 6: of the far right. I showed that to her sometime later, actually,
Speaker 6: it was about February two thousand and ten, and within
Speaker 6: a split second she said to me, that's him, that's
Speaker 6: my attacker. Really excitedly, I said, Ernie, this this is
Speaker 6: the same man I showed to you and the Plane Dealer.
Speaker 6: She said, well, why is it do it so different? Well,
Speaker 6: once I pulled his psyche evaluation from September two thousand
Speaker 6: and five, I realized why he looked so differently from
Speaker 6: the front page of The Plane Dealer from the photographs
Speaker 6: that I found the earlier photographer found for the Internet.
Speaker 6: Anthony stillwell. Like many of his victims, he was also
Speaker 6: a crack addict as well as he drained heavily himself,
Speaker 6: so between the time that he was released from June
Speaker 6: of two thousand and five to the time of this Catcher,
Speaker 6: Anthony Soa actually lost nearly forty pounds. The psych evaluation
Speaker 6: described him as being six feet tall one hundred and
Speaker 6: ninety five pounds, but he was down to one hundred
Speaker 6: and fifty five pounds at the time of his catcher.
Speaker 6: What man loses forty pounds in the span of four years. Well,
Speaker 6: that was the reason why, and that explained why she
Speaker 6: couldn't place him from the front page photographs used by
Speaker 6: the playing diller as opposed to the one that I
Speaker 6: retrieved from the Internet. So then all the pieces of
Speaker 6: the puzzes came together. And that's where I also relized.
Speaker 6: Not only did she not place him because my instincts
Speaker 6: were telling me this has to be the man, But
Speaker 6: then I realized the day that I was searching for
Speaker 6: Within hours of her disappearance, Anthony Sowell and I crossed
Speaker 6: paths wow, because I told her, I said the photograph
Speaker 6: that I'm showing you, this is the man that briefly
Speaker 6: joined me at the bus shelter the evening. I was
Speaker 6: looking for you because I reached her her neighborhood about
Speaker 6: seven thirty in the evening, and I stayed precisely one
Speaker 6: thirty in the morning. I could not pull myself to
Speaker 6: leave the area because I knew something was wrong because
Speaker 6: we had just talked by phone about an hour and
Speaker 6: a half or so before. I reached her neighborhood and
Speaker 6: she didn't mention she was going anywhere. And most of
Speaker 6: the locals that I told that I am talked to
Speaker 6: and asking them had they seen her, they always telling
Speaker 6: me the same thing, Well, yeah, she's around here somewhere.
Speaker 6: And when I left at one thirty in the morning,
Speaker 6: that's when I got the call roughly about nine to
Speaker 6: nine thirty from metro Er that she had been involved
Speaker 6: in a very brutal assault and she's asking for me
Speaker 6: to come to the emergency room. And that's where all
Speaker 6: the pieces of the puzzle came together, that that man
Speaker 6: was actually leaving a crime scene, and because he didn't
Speaker 6: own a car, he took the number fourteenth of which
Speaker 6: travels up and down Kinsmen and from each seventy nine
Speaker 6: to his home. I looked it up in less than
Speaker 6: ten minutes. It goes right pat to the Impuire Avenue.
Speaker 6: And I never knew that until two and a half
Speaker 6: three years later, and then I realized this is the
Speaker 6: same man now. I provided under oak scorn Affidavid to
Speaker 6: the Premean Police Department, says crime units, to the Chief
Speaker 6: of Police, to the Prosecutor's office, to the Police Review board,
Speaker 6: and he's completely ignored it. The review board for some
Speaker 6: strange reasons just simply rubber stamped it in sufficient evidence,
Speaker 6: like are you kidding me? However, the other survivors who
Speaker 6: did not report their attacks, in some cases until years
Speaker 6: later after the bids was discovered, they received swift indictments.
Speaker 6: Why is that? The simple answer is because there's no
Speaker 6: police liability there, whereas over these case she did report it.
Speaker 6: And here's another sound fascinating to us to this story.
Speaker 6: I don't know if I'm getting ahead of myself or
Speaker 6: if he had intend to raise this question, but one
Speaker 6: of Anthony Soaud was signature moves with practically all of
Speaker 6: his victims in addition to this, well, prior to this trangulation,
Speaker 6: he would say, take off your clothes. That's how I knew.
Speaker 6: That really got my interest. And the second signature action
Speaker 6: was to take their jury. Now I'm thinking, okay, well,
Speaker 6: he knows he's going to kill Vernice, leave her body
Speaker 6: behind her course, behind his side in the abandoned house,
Speaker 6: take her first in facts, take her valuebooks and perhaps
Speaker 6: sell them upon them. Little did I know that will
Speaker 6: become his trophies of his victims. And another author by
Speaker 6: the name of Robertson Burnham. He published a book in
Speaker 6: October twenty and twelve, I believe on the Cleveland Strangler,
Speaker 6: The Shocking true Story the Treatment because the Cleveland, Cleveland Strangler.
Speaker 6: And inside his publication he has a photograph taken by
Speaker 6: the corner of some of the jury that they retrieved
Speaker 6: from Anthony Soulall's home from his bedroom George to be exact,
Speaker 6: and Lord and behold, this had to be another miracle,
Speaker 6: a blessing. Lord behold. Bernice Crusters two thousand and six,
Speaker 6: jewed her watch in her ring in this particular photograph
Speaker 6: is right among the Pure Avenue Dead Victims. Photograph the
Speaker 6: Pure Avenue Victims. Their tideline is from June two thousand
Speaker 6: and seven to the fall of two thousand and nine.
Speaker 6: There's only one explanation as to why Bernice's gray watch
Speaker 6: and her ring is inside that photograph. Anthony Sowell, the
Speaker 6: emerging Cleveland Strangler, was the one that Lord enforced her
Speaker 6: insigned that abandoned house, and he took her jury. And
Speaker 6: when he and I crossed paths, and I looked at him,
Speaker 6: and I received this very bad vibing energy from him.
Speaker 6: That's what they ex planned to me. Why he's carrying
Speaker 6: upon him a gift that I bought her, bought for
Speaker 6: her a year earlier. He's carrying it on his person.
Speaker 6: He's taking it home with him and her jury probably
Speaker 6: was the first to lace his bottom drawer, and he
Speaker 6: just started to add more jury to it at the
Speaker 6: lord and attack more victims and with heart renting Now
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead that I was going
Speaker 6: to say, what's very heart wrenching and disappointedness. Although this
Speaker 6: overwhelming facts and evidence and the photographs of her wearing
Speaker 6: the watch before it was taken. This has been submitted
Speaker 6: to the Cludion Police Department, to the sex Crime Unit,
Speaker 6: and per their own manual all new leads, they're supposed
Speaker 6: to follow up on it. Furthermore, according to Ohio constitution,
Speaker 6: It's Bill of Rights Section ten A is a section
Speaker 6: called the Rights of Victims of Crime. It clearly says
Speaker 6: that the bustiness of crime or are supposed to have
Speaker 6: access to any information that would help solve their crime.
Speaker 6: That's the law the Constitution. The fourteenth Amendment officer says
Speaker 6: no US citizens shall be deprived of their property or
Speaker 6: be denied due process. Well, I've approached the Corners numerous
Speaker 6: times through emails, phone communication, but the sex Crime Unit
Speaker 6: is trying to have discredit everything I've said. So instead
Speaker 6: of upholding rule of law, honoring and protecting her rights,
Speaker 6: they're not cooperating. So we're trying to come pursue other
Speaker 6: legal means to get her justice enclosure. Because as I mentioned,
Speaker 6: the other survivors simply provided eyewitness testimony, there is no
Speaker 6: DNA as a matter of fact, Ohio versus so well,
Speaker 6: there was no DNA on any of the eleven remains.
Speaker 6: It was simply circumstantial evidence. And Bernice CRUSH's case, as
Speaker 6: I just enumerated, there's an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence
Speaker 6: that implicate Anthony Soul as an attacker and he should,
Speaker 6: by law be indicted for attacker. On June eighteenth of
Speaker 6: two thousand and.
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Speaker 3: What happens in your book as you write is that
Speaker 3: there are many as you fight for to put this
Speaker 3: all together, to be able to put this photo in
Speaker 3: front of Vernice, to get Vernice in a in a
Speaker 3: in a certain kind of physical and psychological shape as
Speaker 3: you let her heal at your home and you encourage
Speaker 3: her to address this addiction that is gripping her life
Speaker 3: and has put her in this almost got her killed,
Speaker 3: and still it has a grip on her. You do
Speaker 3: get some cooperation from some people. You do get empathy
Speaker 3: and seems like understanding from some people. And I guess say,
Speaker 3: I understand, and I applaud you that you went everywhere
Speaker 3: you possibly could, implored people everywhere, and you included that
Speaker 3: in the media, the media contacts that seemed to be
Speaker 3: you talked about the plain dealer being very good about
Speaker 3: this story and your version and cooperating with you and
Speaker 3: Vernice and telling that story. So tell us some of
Speaker 3: the things that seemed to be optimistic and were in
Speaker 3: your favor, and then the things that seemed to be
Speaker 3: that just were dashed hopes after promises of progress and
Speaker 3: even promises of taking this to the grand jury.
Speaker 6: There was a plane dealer reported that did in twenty
Speaker 6: and twelve. We have to keep in mind that at
Speaker 6: this point the summer of twenty eleven Ohio versus so
Speaker 6: well that trial was a big buzz in the city
Speaker 6: of Cleveland and nationally, so I had republished a preview
Speaker 6: copy and apparently it must have caught the attention of
Speaker 6: a report at the plane dealer, and he did request
Speaker 6: an interview, and I believe he did download the book
Speaker 6: and he was fascinated by some of his content. And
Speaker 6: the detective, as a recall, who had charge of the case,
Speaker 6: he was promoted to sergeant in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 6: so his assistant took over the case. And so as
Speaker 6: I was pretty much doing my own investigation, playing Sherlock Holmes,
Speaker 6: I began to connect the docs. And then I also
Speaker 6: realized that I'm an eye witness because he and not
Speaker 6: cross path and he has her jury, and so the
Speaker 6: jury is in the corners. You now have a physical
Speaker 6: connection there. So and none of that's the sketch at
Speaker 6: this point in time, It's three and a half years
Speaker 6: have passed, so pretty much everybody's gotten a box the sketch.
Speaker 6: But like I said, I did a digital lineup, and
Speaker 6: you can clearly see there's a resemblance between the sketch
Speaker 6: and Anthony sell photograph, with the exception of the artists
Speaker 6: drawing too much here, But that's okay. The forensic artist
Speaker 6: son has never seen mister Solwell and will, being him
Speaker 6: African American, maybe he just assumed that he wore an
Speaker 6: app for I don't know. But the physical features are there,
Speaker 6: the resemblance is there, the circumstantial evidence is there. They
Speaker 6: have a chord that was used to scrangle her. The
Speaker 6: very first of the eleven Impuire Avenue victims. As I
Speaker 6: shared with the detective, I said, do you know that
Speaker 6: the very first one was Crystal Dojer. She disappeared a
Speaker 6: year after Bernice and she was found two and a
Speaker 6: half years later in Anthony Soul's bankyard. But I said,
Speaker 6: do you know where she lived? There is a very
Speaker 6: interesting link between her the very first one in Britney's Scrutcher.
Speaker 6: I said, that link is the abandoned house that Berney
Speaker 6: Scrutcher was lured to within the sixty nine hundred blocks
Speaker 6: of Kainston Avenue, just a few doors away is where
Speaker 6: Crystal Dojer lived. And I said, do you think that's
Speaker 6: a random coincidence? Of course not. Anthony Solwell came down
Speaker 6: to the Garden Valley estate area as dress rehearsal. This
Speaker 6: is the fact that most people don't know that was
Speaker 6: dress rehearsal before he started luring the eleven women to
Speaker 6: his home and killing them there. And fashion abody's either
Speaker 6: inside his home or in the backyard. It's started in
Speaker 6: the bankyard, I believe, with five six bodies, but Anthony
Speaker 6: Sowel ran out of room, so he started stashing it
Speaker 6: inside his home. But going back to your question, the
Speaker 6: rail light that we thought we had. After I got
Speaker 6: the news station involved, they questioned her and he said
Speaker 6: that it seems like mister Newton and Berndey Scruncher has
Speaker 6: credible evidence that her case could have prevented that tragedy.
Speaker 6: And the detective had talked it over with the then
Speaker 6: director of the Special Bureau of Investigation, and he gave
Speaker 6: the detective inscruptions for her to bring Bernice in for
Speaker 6: a lineup, and she said, which I have. I believe
Speaker 6: in chapter twelve of the book, our conversation were for word.
Speaker 6: There's a transcript, and she said that I'm on furlough,
Speaker 6: but when I get back, I'm going to have Bernice
Speaker 6: do a lineup, which of course was including mister Silwell,
Speaker 6: and she was confident that Bernie would pick out so
Speaker 6: well and that the case would go before grand jury. Now,
Speaker 6: certainly is this after at that point, I think it's
Speaker 6: about five years. At that point, we were excited, We
Speaker 6: felt that this things would go well. But someone else,
Speaker 6: while this detective who now had charged the case was away,
Speaker 6: said something completely different to the media. He told the
Speaker 6: media that Miss Crutcher was mistaken that science had cleared
Speaker 6: mister Sowell from the two thousand and six case, and
Speaker 6: that when we eventually came in later that month, there
Speaker 6: was no line up and they was pretty much telling
Speaker 6: Miss Krutcher that until we have DNA, which I think
Speaker 6: is kind of strange for them to say that knowing
Speaker 6: full well that the trial was not about DNA. It
Speaker 6: was about acclivating circumstances that got Anthony so were convicted,
Speaker 6: not DNA. So someone took it in a different direction.
Speaker 6: And she actually said to me, someone of a high
Speaker 6: paygrade is saying something different than me, and that other
Speaker 6: that someone can only be the original lead detective of
Speaker 6: release case. He now has received a couple promotions within
Speaker 6: the unit. Certainly it would be a conflict of interest
Speaker 6: if it was known he made a critical mistake and
Speaker 6: number one not showing Britney's crutcher a registered recently registered
Speaker 6: sex defender at that point it was just nine months
Speaker 6: in and he lived less than three miles away. Plus
Speaker 6: he fits the description of the sketch she provided, and
Speaker 6: had they went to his home, they would have found
Speaker 6: her jery there. The case would have been solved in
Speaker 6: June two thousand and six. Plus I would have came
Speaker 6: forward and said, yes, I crossed bath with him. I'm
Speaker 6: an eyewitness. He bought it the number fourteen east bound buds.
Speaker 6: That's the man. You have a jury. And furthermore, the
Speaker 6: last rations. Here's another thing that's fascinating about that trial.
Speaker 6: Patrolman Charles Lockey arrested so well with a backpack. Inside
Speaker 6: that backpack, one of the items were a box cutter.
Speaker 6: That explains the source of the lacerations, the razor sharp
Speaker 6: cuts on Nissa's head and face. They would have had
Speaker 6: had this case blusted wide open, had there been a
Speaker 6: more thorough investigation. And this is another reason why I
Speaker 6: really wanted to get this case down, so that police
Speaker 6: officers detect us when they hadn't in cases I know
Speaker 6: DNA especial when it comes to trial, it's pretty much
Speaker 6: slammed dunk. But any events that you don't have DNA,
Speaker 6: then there has to be a thorough investigation, especially if
Speaker 6: the community at large lives are at stake. I get
Speaker 6: the distinct depression when they rolled the dice and they
Speaker 6: didn't get a match in CODIS and they simply told
Speaker 6: us an unknown profile not in CODs. This, this would
Speaker 6: be held in abeyance until a hit in CODs was
Speaker 6: the exact word. Well, that doesn't sound like an investigation.
Speaker 6: And furthermore, you're pretty much enabling this, this unknown attacker,
Speaker 6: giving him a pass to continue to be at large
Speaker 6: until the next person gets attacked. And unfortunately, this particular
Speaker 6: heinous attacker repeated his attack over and over and over
Speaker 6: again to the tune of eleven bodies found in and
Speaker 6: outside his home. And I really believe that bernica survival
Speaker 6: is the reason why Anthony sou would change the strategy.
Speaker 6: He presumed he killed her. I mean, think about it. Technically,
Speaker 6: she was dead for fifteen hours from six pm and
Speaker 6: regained consciousness the next morning at nine pm. So he
Speaker 6: changed his strategy. Instead of learning him to the abandoned house,
Speaker 6: He'll lure to his home. He'll bury them in his backyard.
Speaker 6: That way he makes sure they'll regained consciousness and wander off.
Speaker 3: We are going to talk about another fascinating aspect of this,
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Speaker 3: which is Magdalia Roulette. Her name Lucky. But first we're
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Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 3: I just introduced to our audience another fascinating aspect of
Speaker 3: this story. Tell us about Lucky Roulette, Magdalia Roulette, and
Speaker 3: tell us how you were involved in this part of
Speaker 3: the investigation as well, And just tell us about this
Speaker 3: incredible aspect.
Speaker 6: Sure, I actually Magdalia Lucky Lucky with her nicknamed Roulette.
Speaker 6: She was a newsful acquaintance of Brineath and I I
Speaker 6: actually met Magdealia a few weeks before I met Bernice.
Speaker 6: But after I met Bernice, I really we began it's
Speaker 6: sprank up a romantic on involvement, and so Magnealia I
Speaker 6: just became casual friends. However, August of two thousand and five,
Speaker 6: everyone was reported that her body was found. Her new
Speaker 6: body was found on the train tracks which was nearly
Speaker 6: hit by a trained operator off of East seventy ninth Street.
Speaker 6: And yet if you recognize that street again, that's the
Speaker 6: same street that Bernice met her attacker on East seventy
Speaker 6: ninth Street. Now, unfortunately, her new body was also beaten
Speaker 6: and had lacerations, and two weeks later Bernice excuse me,
Speaker 6: lucky to come to her injuries so that she died.
Speaker 6: But what's interesting is she survived for two weeks, so certainly
Speaker 6: she was able to talk to her family and the
Speaker 6: authorities and provide a description of her attacker. But to
Speaker 6: this day, her case is unsolved. And I do know because,
Speaker 6: like I said, with my personal acquaintance with her, she
Speaker 6: pretty much had the same profile as Bernice Cruncher, a
Speaker 6: drug addicted female prone to solicitation. In order to support
Speaker 6: that happen. But we're not here to pass judgment. Law
Speaker 6: enforcement is here to solve cases and to prevent a
Speaker 6: harm or threat to the community. And I'll also offer
Speaker 6: help in a very compassionate way to victims. But what's
Speaker 6: fascinating is this is August two thousand and five, Anthony
Speaker 6: so Well moving into Impure Avenue. June of two thousand
Speaker 6: and five, just a couple months earlier, there had been
Speaker 6: no attacks on the women in the area, and sadly,
Speaker 6: again that case is unsolved. And like I said, ten
Speaker 6: months later, Bernie's crutcher, who's also on East seventy ninth Street,
Speaker 6: she meets her attack her and this he lures her
Speaker 6: to an abandoned house. Now what I find fascinating between
Speaker 6: Magdalia and Ernie's scruncher, as I mentioned, with their injuries.
Speaker 6: The injuries are all about the heads in their face,
Speaker 6: and again you have lacerations, and then again the victims
Speaker 6: are nude. So as I depict on the back cover before,
Speaker 6: from two thousand and five to two thousand and six,
Speaker 6: you have two cold cases, one result of the murder,
Speaker 6: the other attempted murder. And then after are the eleven
Speaker 6: murders between two thousand and seven and two thousand and nine.
Speaker 6: I'm thoroughly convinced had there been in a more astute
Speaker 6: and engaged investigation with these two cold cases, the eleven
Speaker 6: murders would have never occurred. And I'm pretty confident. I'm
Speaker 6: willing to bet the farm the description that Lucky gave
Speaker 6: in August two thousand and five before she passed away.
Speaker 6: I'm willing to bet the farm that it matches Anthony
Speaker 6: Saula's description.
Speaker 3: Wow, you talk about the missing women and you mention
Speaker 3: their names than we should. We talked about Chris, Jill Dozier,
Speaker 3: Toushuna culver And June two thousand and eight, Lshanda Long
Speaker 3: August two thousand and eight, Michelle Mason October two thousand
Speaker 3: and eight, Tanya Carmichael November two thousand and eight, Kim
Speaker 3: Smith January two thousand and nine, Nancy Cobb April two
Speaker 3: thousand and nine, Amelda Hunter April two thousand and nine,
Speaker 3: Janie Webb two June two thousand and nine, Talaysia Fortson
Speaker 3: June two thousand and nine, Dyan Turner September two thousand
Speaker 3: and nine. You talk about the trial, It's been told before,
Speaker 3: but you have a different perspective. Tell us about some
Speaker 3: of the what you write about about the trial itself.
Speaker 6: Well, certainly it was an emotional trial to have that
Speaker 6: many families there who lost loved ones, and I mean,
Speaker 6: we can't begin to put into words the emotions that
Speaker 6: had to range in that courtroom, and the very fact
Speaker 6: that Anthony Sowell when during the impact theme, I think
Speaker 6: I should have photographed him not even willing to look
Speaker 6: at the victim's families and give them the satisfaction of
Speaker 6: expressing their their heartbreak and how much he's chattered and
Speaker 6: destroyed their lives. Certainly, my heart goes out to them
Speaker 6: because I now know, with the amount of research that
Speaker 6: I've done and of course been acquainted with her niece's
Speaker 6: case inside announced that that human loss could have been
Speaker 6: prevented had there been a more like I say, engaged
Speaker 6: and compassion to the fact that how do you suspend
Speaker 6: this case when you know, looking at the extent of
Speaker 6: Bernice's injuries, this particular assailing is still out there. He's
Speaker 6: still at large, sens because you didn't get a hitten
Speaker 6: colder it should have told you that, okay, And he's
Speaker 6: an interesting twisted Bernice's break kit. She told him she
Speaker 6: had consent you with sanctious hours before. So those profiles
Speaker 6: don't belong, they don't have no relevance to the attack.
Speaker 6: But somehow the set time unity, which as far as
Speaker 6: I'm concerned to hide their mintsteps and their failures, has
Speaker 6: gone so far as to say, well, your attacker is
Speaker 6: still out at large, which is ridiculous given the fact
Speaker 6: that it's been over ten years. When you look at
Speaker 6: the hateous nature of her attack, you can tell this
Speaker 6: person has an appetitite of violence. He has to just
Speaker 6: disappeared off the face of the earth, and the evidence
Speaker 6: of that is the Impure Avenue tragedy. Now, I looked
Speaker 6: at that trial just to see if I could really
Speaker 6: make some correlation between those two thousand and seven to
Speaker 6: two thousand and nine attacks, and the evidence is there,
Speaker 6: particularly with patrolling Charles N's Lockeye officer Charles Lockeye. As
Speaker 6: I mentioned earlier, the box cutter. Here you have a strangler,
Speaker 6: but then he's carrying a box cutter. That has to
Speaker 6: be the source of the last ovation with Riney's crutcher.
Speaker 6: But then there was another witness for the state that
Speaker 6: lived with Anthony so well, his lived in girlfriend, Lorie Fraser,
Speaker 6: who was actually the mayor's niece, and she testified that
Speaker 6: there were times when mister Soul would come home with
Speaker 6: very suspicious looking wounds. And I remember specifically then assistant
Speaker 6: prosecuted Lorii Fraser on the witness stand about what time
Speaker 6: about when did you begin to notice these wounds on
Speaker 6: mister Sowell, And what she said chills up my spine.
Speaker 6: I have that in the book as well as an
Speaker 6: audio at my website cdnet dot com. She clearly testified
Speaker 6: that she's begin to notice those wounds in two thousand
Speaker 6: and six. For the discrepancy is the Imperial Avenue tragedy
Speaker 6: started with Florid Fraser occurred in June two thousand and seven,
Speaker 6: and so Laurie goes on to testify that tone, which
Speaker 6: was so Anthony Sowell said that he got those wounds
Speaker 6: from somebody inside of an abandoned house who grabbed him
Speaker 6: right away. That sufficient evidence to use in a grand
Speaker 6: jewelry for Brindie's purchase. Times when he told Lorie Fraser, well,
Speaker 6: not to worry, I killed their ass the person who
Speaker 6: granted him and signed an abandoned house. That right there
Speaker 6: has direct correlation to release two thousand and six. Attacked
Speaker 6: inside in an abandoned house. It has no relevance whatsoever
Speaker 6: to the Impure Avenue murders. And I brought that up
Speaker 6: to the prosecutor as well as the Sex Crime Unit
Speaker 6: and the officer professional standard, and again they brother stands
Speaker 6: it as insufficient evidence. But as I said it earlier,
Speaker 6: the jury didn't reach their decision not based upon DNA,
Speaker 6: but according to the trans the court transcript, aggravating circumstances
Speaker 6: an unquote far outweighed and mitigating factors beyond a reasonable
Speaker 6: down Well, there's an overwhelming abundance of aggravating circumstances in
Speaker 6: nice case. And like I said, you could actually look
Speaker 6: at that the Ohio versus so Well trial and in
Speaker 6: the case of the arresting officer and Laurie phrases statements
Speaker 6: that has a direct connection to really Scirtu's case and
Speaker 6: not the Inperior Avenue murders, and that needs to go
Speaker 6: before grand jury. And it was completely changed the narrative
Speaker 6: for what the city and the world knows about the
Speaker 6: Cleveland strangler. And I believe that's the thing, that's what
Speaker 6: the Sex Crime Unit will find. It's a conflict adventures,
Speaker 6: but the laws of law, she is in time to
Speaker 6: do justice enclosure and these facts and evidence that I'm
Speaker 6: sharing with you and your listeners need to go before
Speaker 6: grand jury. And that's what we're pushing for because, after all,
Speaker 6: there's been a lot of time discussion in the national
Speaker 6: discourse about police reforms and the criminal justice system. As
Speaker 6: long as there are cases like mine out there, and
Speaker 6: I'm sure there's probably thousands of them out there that
Speaker 6: have been silent having given the light of day, it
Speaker 6: undermines our confidence and our trust in this system. You
Speaker 6: can't just have press conferences and say well, we're doing
Speaker 6: the best we can and things are looking better and
Speaker 6: things are doing well when citizens and residents actually know
Speaker 6: the truth. These are just pr spinds. These are just
Speaker 6: still good messages that you're feeding to the public. Whereas
Speaker 6: in reality we know the status quo prevails, and that
Speaker 6: when there are cases that are show a conplint of
Speaker 6: interest or biased towards protecting officers misconduct, that no, we
Speaker 6: can't have confidence and trust. We're going to respect I'm sorry, hello,
Speaker 6: we still there, Yes, absolutely, so for us to have
Speaker 6: confidence and trusts, all we're asking for is accountability and integrity,
Speaker 6: the facts of the evidence that they're she's in time
Speaker 6: to do justice, enclosure and in addition to the circumstances
Speaker 6: around her case, that officer as well as Lorie Fraser's statements,
Speaker 6: which now is public record in her court transfer. Excuse
Speaker 6: in court transfer they haven't the right bearing in her case.
Speaker 6: That person that anthemusilla said that, well, I killed their
Speaker 6: ass that attacked me inside of an abandoned house. That's
Speaker 6: not another than Bernice Crutcher, if not another victim and
Speaker 6: another abandoned house. That whod's case is just a forgotten
Speaker 6: code case.
Speaker 3: You make a good case for them trying to avoid liability.
Speaker 3: We've seen that and a few cases, especially recently. When
Speaker 3: you look at the price that you said that this
Speaker 3: investigation was seven hundred thousand dollars to the county, and
Speaker 3: that's probably not everything included. Do you think maybe it's
Speaker 3: that she wasn't included an eleven initially, that the photo
Speaker 3: her initially not being identifying Anthony's. Was there a time
Speaker 3: when she misidentified a photo of Anthony Sowell.
Speaker 6: Well, as far as the investigation goes, she provided a
Speaker 6: sketch to the forensic artist. As I said it earlier,
Speaker 6: I did show her after Anthony Souel was they discovered
Speaker 6: the bodies at his home. He was a wanted man.
Speaker 6: But this is two and a half years later the
Speaker 6: attack occurred in Junior two thousand and six. He was
Speaker 6: a wanted man as of October thirty first, two thousand
Speaker 6: and nine, only two and a half years later, so
Speaker 6: she couldn't place him from the photograph that they had
Speaker 6: on the front page of the Playing Dealer. But if
Speaker 6: we back up as a September two thousand and five,
Speaker 6: the court Psychiatric Clinic, even though the evaluation was way
Speaker 6: off the mark when it said it was a six
Speaker 6: percent chance to reoffend, that evaluation was way off the mark,
Speaker 6: they still had his photograph, his address on record, because
Speaker 6: after all, he's now a register and sex offender and
Speaker 6: Anthony Solwell knows that. So the Sex Prime Unit they
Speaker 6: also had to know that. And I to this day
Speaker 6: do not understand why they did not, and let me repeat,
Speaker 6: they did not show Bernice Cruncher Anthony so was registered
Speaker 6: sex offender photograph from September to two thousand and five.
Speaker 6: I found an earlier photograph before he lost the weight,
Speaker 6: before he lost the forty pounds, and right away she
Speaker 6: made the connection. And it's my understanding from reading the
Speaker 6: other two other authors that did their story on the
Speaker 6: Anthony Sowell they also described the officers also had the
Speaker 6: same problem between the photograph they had on record and
Speaker 6: the man standing before them, because he had lost a
Speaker 6: substantial amount of weight. Anyone lose forty pounds, they're going
Speaker 6: to look physically different. But once again, a registered sex offender,
Speaker 6: all of his information is in a database. They had
Speaker 6: access to it, which also means that that photograph, it's
Speaker 6: a matter of record. This is a sex crime unit.
Speaker 6: Why they did not show her a photograph was a
Speaker 6: serious critical misstep. And given the fact that he's new
Speaker 6: to the area, because that's one thing Bernice Crutcher said,
Speaker 6: Now she's nearly a twenty year resident of Garden Valley,
Speaker 6: and this is where good detective work comes in. So
Speaker 6: that means practically an active living in that area for
Speaker 6: nearly twenty years, you know practically everyone in the area,
Speaker 6: all the locals. She reported, I've never seen this guy before.
Speaker 6: That should have tipped him off. He's new to the area.
Speaker 6: She also said, he's on foot, so he's within walking
Speaker 6: distance a jury to five mile radius. And the fact
Speaker 6: that this was a sexual assault that she had a
Speaker 6: lesend right away. Less check our regilar sex offenders within
Speaker 6: three to five miles and who feeds the description of
Speaker 6: an African American male with a mustache and small facial
Speaker 6: beard that would have legend in the Anthnue Silver who
Speaker 6: had just moved in June of two thousand and five
Speaker 6: in the area. Six feet tall, mustache, facial beard, registered
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Speaker 3: Absolutely, now throughout this you make mistake. Throughout this, you
Speaker 3: stay solidly behind Vernice creature, and you say that then,
Speaker 3: really the trials and tribulations that she goes through trying
Speaker 3: to kick this addiction, she has some hurdles as well,
Speaker 3: as you talk about, is some incarceration in there, even
Speaker 3: though she is progressing in her treatment incredibly. And then
Speaker 3: you show the very success and the change and the
Speaker 3: difference that your help and her conviction to try to
Speaker 3: get kick this addiction. Finally at least it pays off.
Speaker 3: And you describe that when she goes to the police,
Speaker 3: he's finally set up that meeting that seems optimistic. You
Speaker 3: think that there's going to this may lead to the
Speaker 3: grand jury that and yet they tell her that the
Speaker 3: DNA is not important or a pardon me is the
Speaker 3: important thing, like you say, despite them not having any
Speaker 3: of that at the trial, and this is a super
Speaker 3: emotional setback for Vernice at that time, I know we're
Speaker 3: going backwards, but that was a big setback for Vernice.
Speaker 3: She comes out there crying, she's hysterical. That's a big setback.
Speaker 3: And it's a setback for you as well, because they've
Speaker 3: led you along, it seems for a fair amount of
Speaker 3: time with this, haven't they.
Speaker 6: Yes, they have, yes, So certainly for her because primedic
Speaker 6: with her, she thought she was going to have just
Speaker 6: as enclosure as if it was finally within her reach.
Speaker 6: And to tell someone you're going to have a lineup
Speaker 6: and we're confident you're going to pick out this effect
Speaker 6: that you've identified, and this is going to a grand jury,
Speaker 6: and of course grand jury means indagment. But like I said,
Speaker 6: this is now the assistant detective who's taking over the case.
Speaker 6: The lead detective has gone on to receive multiple promotions,
Speaker 6: so he if he's if he's doing well within the unit,
Speaker 6: and he's very ambitition he's moving up in the ranks.
Speaker 6: This is the last thing he wants to be known
Speaker 6: or associated with that. Actually, you, your failures are in missteps,
Speaker 6: your lack of communication and a thorough investigation is what
Speaker 6: enabled to Cleveland strangler. He doesn't want that to be
Speaker 6: associated with him. So she said to me point blank,
Speaker 6: and I really didn't grasp it at the time that
Speaker 6: she said it to me. Somewhat of a higher pay
Speaker 6: grade is saying something different than me. But if I
Speaker 6: had this information several years ago, she would be up
Speaker 6: in upstairs in the courtroom with the other victims excuse me,
Speaker 6: the other some vibors. Rather so now it becomes a
Speaker 6: matter of politics. And I think that this is another
Speaker 6: reason why I wrote the book and why I want
Speaker 6: to get this story up, because they really served as
Speaker 6: a cautionary tale. When you have missteps such as this,
Speaker 6: it results in a community tragedy. And now the victim
Speaker 6: comes forward, Now we can get a real test, a
Speaker 6: real test of integrity and accountability and trust and confidence
Speaker 6: in our law enforcement and our criminal justice system. I mean,
Speaker 6: let's be real. Prosecutors, assistant prosecutors and detectives and the police.
Speaker 6: They have a working relationship their colleagues in order to
Speaker 6: build cases against defendants. So now if your colleagues who
Speaker 6: you have a close knit relationship with if they have
Speaker 6: if they're being accused of some sort of misconduct, what
Speaker 6: do you do. Do you stand up for the victim
Speaker 6: and their rights or do you side with this long
Speaker 6: standing colleague you have a working relationship with. That's the
Speaker 6: narrative that would have changed have r in THEE. Cruster's
Speaker 6: case been brought into the corporal and it still can
Speaker 6: be and until we actually I'm sorry, go ahead, no,
Speaker 6: I was just gonna say, until we actually allow cases
Speaker 6: like this to see the light of day and receive
Speaker 6: the proper justice enclosure, then we really not being genuine
Speaker 6: about police reforms and criminal justice reforms. I mean, this
Speaker 6: case code case really speaks to an abuse of power
Speaker 6: and authority. When I approached the assistant prosecutor and I
Speaker 6: said to him, I've told him about the facts and
Speaker 6: evidence of case after we received such a very heart
Speaker 6: breaking disappointment when we left the Crime Sex Crime Unit Act.
Speaker 6: He told me, well, we had to retrieve her freak
Speaker 6: kit and you're gonna have to wait sixty days until
Speaker 6: we get the results. Now. Little did I know he
Speaker 6: already had the two survivors that I mentioned earlier, who
Speaker 6: reported their attack five minus or so, what after the
Speaker 6: bidens were discovery and in one case like a year
Speaker 6: and a half, So that really isn't a prerequisite in
Speaker 6: order to get an indictment. He knew that, but he
Speaker 6: didn't tell me that. So this leads me to think that, well,
Speaker 6: what's the difference between bernicas the survivor and these other
Speaker 6: two that receive indictment within days? And who has no
Speaker 6: rape kit? Miami? Though one was raped by Anthony Sowell,
Speaker 6: but because she reported it a year and eight months later,
Speaker 6: certainly there's no rape kid So he's only charged for
Speaker 6: colonia saw attempted murder and kidnapping. So they could do
Speaker 6: the same with Bernice. But the difference between Bernica and
Speaker 6: survivor and the other two survivors, as I said earlier,
Speaker 6: no police liability. I find it very difficult to accept
Speaker 6: the fact that I submit a police complaint, but that
Speaker 6: then prosecutor gives the same detective a prestigious law Enforcement
Speaker 6: of the Year award. Now I submit a complaint, a
Speaker 6: very detailed complaint about pretty much abscrection of justice, a
Speaker 6: cover up. However, Anice left the sex time unit promised
Speaker 6: one thing a line up grand jury, and she gets
Speaker 6: something completely different, and that complaint was just versely dismissed.
Speaker 6: But then the prosecutor turns around a short time later
Speaker 6: and this same detective receives a prestigious law enforcement at
Speaker 6: the year award. How could that be? He pretty much
Speaker 6: contradicted glowing words that she handed her cases with such
Speaker 6: compassion and empathy and with diligent and so many other
Speaker 6: outstanding and glowing words. But my complaints specifically detailed completely
Speaker 6: the opposite based upon the experience that we had. So again,
Speaker 6: you can't have the community stand one thing and yet
Speaker 6: law enforcement and their partner at the prosecutors are since
Speaker 6: that's been entirely different.
Speaker 3: You write in your book that the police told the
Speaker 3: families of the eleven reported missing women, or at least
Speaker 3: some of them that you spoke with, and you have
Speaker 3: this report in your book, they said, don't worry your
Speaker 3: loved one, she'll return in a few days after getting high.
Speaker 3: Go back home. Yeah, just to lend some credibility to
Speaker 3: your liability in that, very much like the Dahmer case.
Speaker 3: People wanted to know how that many people could go missing,
Speaker 3: and then they did their investigation with us as well.
Speaker 3: You talk about the community demanded answers and things were
Speaker 3: supposed to change, and that's what the sex crime Unit
Speaker 3: was supposed to be. And then so at least that's
Speaker 3: what was reported that there was going to be a
Speaker 3: dramatic change in the way things the way rape victims
Speaker 3: statements were handled and missing persons cases were handled. There
Speaker 3: was supposed to be a change.
Speaker 6: Wasn't there yet? The American mission they had come out
Speaker 6: I believe with March at twenty eleven with a nine
Speaker 6: hundred page reforms and changes, and I do believe that
Speaker 6: going forward they probably have implemented a lot of those changes,
Speaker 6: not all because the press has reported that they're still
Speaker 6: in progressy trying to make those next their changes be
Speaker 6: more sensitive to the family members and to take them seriously.
Speaker 6: Plus we're also under the US Department of Justice consent
Speaker 6: decree as of May fifteenth, twenty fifteenth, which also requires
Speaker 6: dramatic changes and how they approach missing persons cases. But
Speaker 6: what's unique about Pernice case is this goes back before
Speaker 6: the imperi Avenue tragity, and for some years it was
Speaker 6: dormant because, like I said, the case was suspended. So
Speaker 6: this is one of those situations where this is coming
Speaker 6: back to haunt them and they don't want it to.
Speaker 6: And as far as I concerned, this cold case actually
Speaker 6: puts the Cleveland Consent Decree and the Mayorage Commission for
Speaker 6: Missing Persons in the sense crime investigation to the test,
Speaker 6: and it's a very challenging one for them, I'll lamit.
Speaker 6: That's like I said, it brings the life that these
Speaker 6: were the mistakes that you made before you had these
Speaker 6: revisions and reforms. But be that as it may, you
Speaker 6: can't deny her lawfully what she's entitled to justice enclosure. Yes,
Speaker 6: it's it's probably painful. And like I said, you you
Speaker 6: have to recognize too, this particular detective, the lead detective.
Speaker 6: I mean, if you look at where he is now
Speaker 6: compared to where he was in two thousand and six,
Speaker 6: he's had a rapid rise within a police division from
Speaker 6: ordinary detective to now he is over especially Bureau of Investigations,
Speaker 6: which includes multiple on divisions under him, which he includes
Speaker 6: the sex crime unit. So certainly, uh, he doesn't want
Speaker 6: this flying ointment with its sting career right now. But
Speaker 6: we do we g give into personal preference careers, pensions,
Speaker 6: awards or does rule of law for vail. And that's
Speaker 6: what it comes down to, and that's what the narrative
Speaker 6: is about about this go cause.
Speaker 3: You chronicle the entire fight that you have and it's
Speaker 3: a long one, and you also talk about the case
Speaker 3: of Vanessa Gay. Tell us about Vanessa Gay, the similarities
Speaker 3: and why you thought her case sounded familiar and why
Speaker 3: she wasn't included in any of this. What were the
Speaker 3: circumstances that excluded Vanessa Gay from this investigation?
Speaker 6: It seemed I'm not sure if you had the right
Speaker 6: the vivor. Vanessa Gay was a survivor attacked by Anthony
Speaker 6: so in April of two thousand and eight. Right, so
Speaker 6: she she was she she was before then judged Timothy
Speaker 6: McGuinty in February two thousand and ten for a probation violation,
Speaker 6: and there she sees the opportunity to expressed that she
Speaker 6: was attacked by Anthony Silwell in April of two thousand
Speaker 6: and eight. Now, the comparison that I made between Vanessa
Speaker 6: Kay and Bernice Crutcher is really it's just it's interesting
Speaker 6: and it's also mind boggling. One within days because then
Speaker 6: Judge Timothy mcinthe's recommendation to then Prosecutor William Mason, she
Speaker 6: received indictments. Now, when you look at the fact that
Speaker 6: she called into the police station in April of two
Speaker 6: thousand and eight that she was attacked by so at
Speaker 6: his own they recommended that she come in and make
Speaker 6: an official police report, but she was afraid to do
Speaker 6: it because I think she had some previous uh judge
Speaker 6: chargers of offenses, So she was afraid to come forward
Speaker 6: and she didn't until a year and eight months later
Speaker 6: when she was before then Judge Timothy mcginje. Now what
Speaker 6: fascinated to me is why did did he believe her
Speaker 6: without any physical evidence, and why did she receive such
Speaker 6: swift indictments against Anthony Silwall that did not include rape
Speaker 6: although he raced her. As I said that earlier, that
Speaker 6: the indictments were for felonious assault, attempted murder and kidnapping.
Speaker 6: But this is simply based on her eyewitness testimony and
Speaker 6: she served as a witness for the stake. Now, Vernice
Speaker 6: Crutcher had an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence, but they
Speaker 6: refused to hear from her and give her the same
Speaker 6: justice enclosure. And like I said. The only reason that
Speaker 6: that stands out right away is Vanessa Gay had not
Speaker 6: reported to the police for the cruncher did so Vanessa
Speaker 6: Gay in her situation, sure she can be a survivor
Speaker 6: because now I had a draw. She's not really saying that, well,
Speaker 6: I told the authorities. I handed them Anthony Sowell. But
Speaker 6: now that's different with Gladys Wade, who was attacked December
Speaker 6: of two thousand and if you recall, she and Anthony
Speaker 6: so are both now at the police station. But because
Speaker 6: of some arrangement they had with a straight release within
Speaker 6: two days, Anthony Sila was released and they really don't
Speaker 6: believe her, although she has all the physical evidence, the scratches,
Speaker 6: the evidence of the bruises, and so I think tell
Speaker 6: some some lines that well, she was just some girl.
Speaker 6: He was, I think having a girlfriend or a woman
Speaker 6: he met and they were having sex and things got
Speaker 6: in hand and she stole something from him. That's the
Speaker 6: reason why she find out on the roof and drop
Speaker 6: to the ground. And so they released him. But little
Speaker 6: did they know he already had five bodies bear in
Speaker 6: his backyard and he would go on to kill six
Speaker 6: more until they called him. And I told we're two
Speaker 6: thousand and nine. So when you take a coastal look
Speaker 6: as the survivors and that trial, you really see some
Speaker 6: serious discrepancies, inconsistencies, double standards, and it just sort of
Speaker 6: really undermines the process that if prosecutors and the authorities
Speaker 6: want a slat things, or I wouldn't say slam pot,
Speaker 6: perhaps manipulate the process where reduces their liability or their culpability,
Speaker 6: then they can do that. They have done that, and
Speaker 6: it gives the appearance to the community, Okay, well we've
Speaker 6: done the right thing. We've got this man off this street.
Speaker 6: Of one size justice fit's all. Because I find it
Speaker 6: really odd that then Prosecutor William Mason publicly said in
Speaker 6: the meat in the press, there's just no way that
Speaker 6: the bodies at the Imperial of An found on the
Speaker 6: Imperier Avenue are all the victims. There has to be
Speaker 6: some more more out there well for these question is
Speaker 6: one And if you recall in the books, on August
Speaker 6: twenty seven, twenty twelve, I submitted a letter to Prosecutor Mason,
Speaker 6: and in that letter I mentioned the challenges that I
Speaker 6: was having with the sex crime unit. They even mentioned
Speaker 6: Ernissa's detective by name. Now he had just for a
Speaker 6: few months earlier, given her that prestigious law Enforcement of
Speaker 6: the Year award. Okay, see that as a man. But
Speaker 6: I mentioned in that letter, I said, and I quote,
Speaker 6: there's a possibility that Bernice crushes jewelry is right among
Speaker 6: the impure Avenue victims. Do you know? Three weeks later,
Speaker 6: the middle of September, out of nowhere, Prosecutor Mason announced
Speaker 6: his resignation that he was stepping down, and their interim
Speaker 6: prosecutor was Timothy McGuinty, the same one the Vanessa Gay
Speaker 6: who mentioned that Anthony soul Will attacked her and he
Speaker 6: believed her, and he recommended her case to then prosecutor.
Speaker 6: With a Mason, it just rereaks with me a system
Speaker 6: of politics, and I don't know, it just leaves a
Speaker 6: bad tation in your mouth. Put it lightly you.
Speaker 3: Talk about let me get this straight. You see none
Speaker 3: of the ligatures, not the belt, the electrical chords, the
Speaker 3: socks or strips of blos used to strangle loveing women.
Speaker 6: That's true. Was it?
Speaker 3: This was not tested for DNA evidence.
Speaker 6: I believe it was, but it only came back the
Speaker 6: DNA of the victims and The same was also true
Speaker 6: with Verdi the court because they found the cord once
Speaker 6: they located the abandoned house, they tested it and it
Speaker 6: only yielded for niece's DNA, And the same thing was
Speaker 6: with the Imperi Avenue victims. But although that is that
Speaker 6: that may be the case, the jury was still convinced
Speaker 6: and then the access of DNA the aggravated circumstances still
Speaker 6: pointed towards Anthony shoul and I find it also fascinating.
Speaker 6: Although I communicated with the other assistant prosecutor at that
Speaker 6: time was our Richard Bombeck. He and I had email
Speaker 6: communications for him to tell me, well, we have to
Speaker 6: run a DNA test on the cord that was used
Speaker 6: to stranger her and her rat kid. Where if you
Speaker 6: already know you have two survivors who serve in as
Speaker 6: witness with a stake. They had no DNA confirmation, but
Speaker 6: yet their eyewitnesses for the state excuse me, so why
Speaker 6: the inconsistency? So once again, because these ladies didn't come
Speaker 6: forward at the time of the attack, and this wasn't
Speaker 6: some time later, and again just removed any police culpability
Speaker 6: or liability. And like I said, it's right, Ontario.
Speaker 3: Is there any talk? I mean, you don't write about
Speaker 3: it in the book, but it would seem that, just
Speaker 3: from my experience and I think other couple of people's experiences,
Speaker 3: that they would see a journalist, a person writing a book,
Speaker 3: someone intimately involved with Vernice s Creucher as having a
Speaker 3: conflict of interest or having other motivations that they would
Speaker 3: either mistrust or just try to stay far away from,
Speaker 3: thinking that the all media acts the same, or anyone
Speaker 3: motivated with the book would act the same despite your
Speaker 3: logical reason for being involved with this. Was there any Again,
Speaker 3: they didn't mention it to you. I didn't read in
Speaker 3: the book that they mentioned that too specific specifically. But
Speaker 3: did you feel any of that when encountering these people
Speaker 3: that they were they were trying to to please you
Speaker 3: or to have you believe that they were cooperative and
Speaker 3: that there might be some hope in having it you
Speaker 3: achieve what you were demanding. But did it seem like
Speaker 3: they didn't appreciate what they might think as your interference
Speaker 3: in this?
Speaker 6: Well, I think initially, well, when I came forward with
Speaker 6: the shared this information. Well, Ferniethus, the detective that took
Speaker 6: charge of the case, being the fact that she was
Speaker 6: you know, she's a woman. Initially, she's really sympathized, sympathized
Speaker 6: with Berna, and she was on board. Like I said,
Speaker 6: she had talked with someone outside the unit who was
Speaker 6: a director and the plan was for Reals to come
Speaker 6: in to do a lineup, and she was confident that
Speaker 6: would go before grand jury. But after Cleveland nineteen News
Speaker 6: aired the story, I really believe that someone else, which
Speaker 6: was probably her originally detective who now, like I said,
Speaker 6: has received a couple promotions. I think he was a
Speaker 6: captain at that time. It's a conflict defensis for him,
Speaker 6: so he pretty much steered it in a different direction.
Speaker 6: He pretty much discredited the our account. He even went
Speaker 6: to a far As War concert to engage his slander
Speaker 6: because he told another author that my book had no
Speaker 6: merit and that what Rinie Schirscher was saying was not true. Wow. So,
Speaker 6: but at that time, we hadn't discovered the jury yet,
Speaker 6: because those particular officers hadn't published a book until the
Speaker 6: following year. The following the next year, and so when
Speaker 6: I found it, when I came across the coroner's photographs
Speaker 6: and I saw her jury on money and pure Avenue victims.
Speaker 6: There we had it. And what's fascinating too is the
Speaker 6: chiefs of then Chief of Police did send me a
Speaker 6: letter and in part he said, until we actually have
Speaker 6: physical evidence linking the two of them, then the case
Speaker 6: will go before a prosecutor. Well, that following year we
Speaker 6: did get that physical evidence the jury which I had
Speaker 6: thought he probably had sold or gave away or something.
Speaker 6: He actually collected it and it was there. But I think,
Speaker 6: like I said, it really comes down to a bit
Speaker 6: of embarrassment conflict of interest because it raises the question.
Speaker 6: This lead detective was promoted while the body count was increasing.
Speaker 6: His first promotion to sergeant was two thousand and eight.
Speaker 6: The Imperial Avenue murder started in two thousand and seven
Speaker 6: with Crista Dosia, actually a neighbor of any Scrutcher, who
Speaker 6: wasn't discovered until two and a half years later. So
Speaker 6: the body count was increasing, and simultaneously he was moving
Speaker 6: up the ranks within the end the unit. So that
Speaker 6: presents a bit of an authority issue for them. But
Speaker 6: again I emphasized take the politics out of it. For
Speaker 6: these was beat within inches of her life. The interest
Speaker 6: of death door by law, and morally speaking, she's entitled
Speaker 6: as a brutally beaten great survivor justice enclosure. The other
Speaker 6: survivors were given that was just a fraction in compassion
Speaker 6: to the amount of fact and evidence in her case,
Speaker 6: they were given just as enclosure. She's incited to that
Speaker 6: as well.
Speaker 3: You wrote, Anthony Sowel in prison in twenty twelve, what
Speaker 3: was yes tell us about that? How productive was that?
Speaker 3: What did you learn from the correspondence tell us about
Speaker 3: his reaction to contacting him?
Speaker 6: That that was a very weird and unusual experience. That
Speaker 6: was an act of desperation because I was getting nowhere
Speaker 6: with the prosecutor's office and the sex crime geting. So
Speaker 6: I was hoping that, hoping against hope, that he would
Speaker 6: have a change of mind and heart and would be
Speaker 6: willing to come forward about this particular attack that he
Speaker 6: knows he was he was never charged for, and I
Speaker 6: do believe initially he did kind of slip up and
Speaker 6: covertly give me a confessional admission to his involvement with
Speaker 6: this June eighteen, two thousand and six attack, because he
Speaker 6: said to me in one of our opening noncommunications, but
Speaker 6: with prison email. Uh, mister Newton, you're fishing, and ericantly
Speaker 6: he said to me, and you're not very good at it.
Speaker 6: I don't need you, you need me signed death row,
Speaker 6: So well have a nice tact. Now, as far as
Speaker 6: I concern, that's tangible evidence. Who are graduated to consider?
Speaker 6: Why is it convicted serial killer telling me or telling
Speaker 6: this man? After he specifically said were you involved with
Speaker 6: this June eighteen, two thousand and six attack and scientists
Speaker 6: abandoned house within the sixty nine hundred blocks, he has
Speaker 6: an avenue and for him to give that response, he's
Speaker 6: arrogantly saying, I know what you're after. I don't need you,
Speaker 6: you need me. And then another corresponds, he says to
Speaker 6: me in so many words that until I hear or
Speaker 6: see something that interests me, I'm just not gonna give
Speaker 6: it to you now. A deserning brand you remember, I'm
Speaker 6: sure can read between the lines and say this arrogant self,
Speaker 6: this self granded, eying grande iss a man knows he
Speaker 6: did this, but because he's still has this miniacal sense
Speaker 6: of control and manipulation, he still wants to control his
Speaker 6: victims while he's in prison on death row. But he's
Speaker 6: letting me know in so many words, I know what
Speaker 6: you're after. You need me, I don't need you. And
Speaker 6: indirectly as far as a concern, that is a covert
Speaker 6: confession to his involvement to his attack on Brittany's crutcher.
Speaker 6: And then that also matches up with as I said earlier,
Speaker 6: with Lori Fraser. She did say in that drial, he
Speaker 6: told me the wounds which were probably defensive wounds from
Speaker 6: a his victim that he's attacking, is trying to fight
Speaker 6: him off. He did say, I was insigned in an
Speaker 6: abandoned house. I had a physical exchange with someone. Not
Speaker 6: to worry I killed there. As in the quote, you
Speaker 6: put all of these pieces of the puzzle together, you
Speaker 6: have Anthony Sowell from the sketch, the jury, the arrested
Speaker 6: with the box cutter, Lori Fraser's statement, the the his
Speaker 6: comment that he made to me in our prison email exchange,
Speaker 6: plus my eyewitness account. I know because I looked at him,
Speaker 6: but two to three minutes before he boarded a bus,
Speaker 6: I wasn't there to kiss the bus. I was just
Speaker 6: simply sitting there because it was at an intersection. I
Speaker 6: was waiting for Pernice to resurface. I know that was him.
Speaker 6: So you take all of this in his totality, you
Speaker 6: have a case, and as far as I'm concern, it's
Speaker 6: even stronger. It's much more error tight and solid than
Speaker 6: the other survivors. Yes, there's no DNA here, but again
Speaker 6: there was no DNA on the remains of the eleven
Speaker 6: i Puire Avenue und victims because their bids was so
Speaker 6: badly decomposed. And the survivors they didn't have physical evidence either.
Speaker 6: But the jury looked at the facts and the evidence
Speaker 6: and they came to the right conclusion. I'm sure if
Speaker 6: our knew Prosecutor Michael O'Malley, who gave the campaign promises
Speaker 6: that he would restore integrity, trust and confidence in the
Speaker 6: office of kyu Hooly County on Practicut, his office if
Speaker 6: the active the deducted a campaign promise and took an
Speaker 6: honest look at the body of evidence, that he can
Speaker 6: only come to one conclusion. Anthony saw what was her attacker.
Speaker 6: He should be induided And as a matter of fact,
Speaker 6: I sent him a competity on the publication. So he
Speaker 6: has it all. He has it be for him.
Speaker 3: Now, you have tried to reach out to all kinds
Speaker 3: of people, with this to the Federal Bureau of Investigation
Speaker 3: in Ohio. And like you say, you're you're still continuing
Speaker 3: and still optimistic to bring to get Vernice her justice.
Speaker 3: This is an incredible story. What about Vernice? What's how
Speaker 3: she doing? What's her status today?
Speaker 6: It could be better? This, This is really taking this
Speaker 6: toll on her because, like I said, she she has
Speaker 6: received false promises that didn't pan out, and she was
Speaker 6: already prone to depression, which is which is the reason
Speaker 6: for the self medication throughout Cessen's abuse. So the fact
Speaker 6: that this is drawn out so long, and it's taken
Speaker 6: some horrific twists and turns, it has to be good
Speaker 6: for her. Her psyche ed Wallace, you know, battling her addiction.
Speaker 6: I've had to deal with the relax getting it back
Speaker 6: into on the program. But be that as it may,
Speaker 6: she still wants I mean, do not be mistaken. She
Speaker 6: still wants justice, enclosure, She wants to be able to
Speaker 6: stand in that courtroom and expressed to mister Sowell the
Speaker 6: impact that this living nightmare has had on her life.
Speaker 6: And as far as I'm concerned, this is bigger than
Speaker 6: she and I and we both understand that. You know,
Speaker 6: there's probably other victims out there that are going through
Speaker 6: the same ordeal, and they may not have to be
Speaker 6: the type of trying to be with the impure Avenue murders,
Speaker 6: but just other victims who are finding it difficult trying
Speaker 6: to work within the system to get the justice and
Speaker 6: the closure they deserve. And so I'm hoping that this
Speaker 6: would also inspire others when they read the account to
Speaker 6: keep fighting. Yes, I've been turned away practically all the
Speaker 6: prestigious civil rights attorneys in Cleveland. I do have another
Speaker 6: agency looking into it, do a High Crime Victims Justice Center.
Speaker 6: They're looking into a case and it's looking very promising
Speaker 6: that they're going to pursue it on her behalf. And
Speaker 6: I'm also keeping the option open to approached to the
Speaker 6: NAACP again now that we have new evidence. But again,
Speaker 6: I really want to see better relations between the police
Speaker 6: department and the community. And one way to do it
Speaker 6: is to make sure that there is integrity and how
Speaker 6: these cases are processed, coming out with fresh conferences saying
Speaker 6: that well, we have reforms and we've changed this, we've
Speaker 6: modified this, we have a new consent to free in place.
Speaker 6: That's all finding good, but we need to make sure
Speaker 6: that it's implemented, that it's given real world applications, so
Speaker 6: that when people's ordinary people like ourselves come in, we
Speaker 6: should not have to have a high powered law firm
Speaker 6: behind us or a longstanding civil rights institution to get
Speaker 6: justice and closure. The prosecutor is the people's attorney. There
Speaker 6: needs to be a consistency. If you tell these survirus
Speaker 6: what DNA is not required, then why do you want
Speaker 6: to turn around and require from her and victims' rights
Speaker 6: which are the law. They should be put first and
Speaker 6: foremost over some detective or police officer's career or reputation.
Speaker 6: And I think that's where the tough call is for officials.
Speaker 6: But once again, if you really want the community, they
Speaker 6: have the integrity, excusing, the confidence and the trust in
Speaker 6: law enforcement and the criminal just assistant, you have to
Speaker 6: make those tough calls. Otherwise you have it. Where we
Speaker 6: are now, the relations are very strained.
Speaker 3: It is a cautionary tale. And I want to thank
Speaker 3: you very much for coming on and talking about my
Speaker 3: sister's keeper, the Cleveland serial killer untold story. Thank you
Speaker 3: very much. CD Newton. What is your website for people
Speaker 3: to look at this and other information? And maybe able
Speaker 3: to contact you or make comments tell.
Speaker 6: Us hey, I appreciate you asking. My website is c D.
Speaker 6: Catch Dog Newton n ew t u o N dot com.
Speaker 6: I'm also on social media Twitter and Instagram. I could
Speaker 6: be reached that mister C. D. Newton, that's Mr no
Speaker 6: period C D. Newton, Instagram and Twitter. You can follow
Speaker 6: me there. Within a couple of days, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 6: gonna make a special offer for your listeners. Well, they'll
Speaker 6: be able to download a free copy that'll be just
Speaker 6: for a couple of days so that they can become
Speaker 6: engaged in the story and perhaps want to read some
Speaker 6: of the various accounts and take the story in for
Speaker 6: themselves directly. But I also want to encourage your listeners
Speaker 6: if you're convinced based upon the facts and the evidence
Speaker 6: that I've mentioned, and of course after reviewing it at
Speaker 6: my website and person in book, if you would like
Speaker 6: to help us in our pursuit for justice inclosure, you
Speaker 6: can call Prosecutor Michael Emley at this number two one
Speaker 6: six four four three seven eight zero zero that's two
Speaker 6: one six four four three seven eight zero zero and
Speaker 6: simply say justice Enclosure for Renie's Crutcher.
Speaker 3: I wanna thank you very much. C. D. Newton, best
Speaker 3: of luck and uh congratulations on an incredible book and
Speaker 3: a very very very noble cause. I wanna thank you
Speaker 3: very much. You have a great evening.
Speaker 6: Thank you, Dan. Good Night, you two, thank you very much.
Speaker 6: Good night, good night,