Speaker 1: What is up?
Speaker 2: Fellowsikos. I have the distinct pleasure of being joined for
this episode by s Barangini, who covers the NBA at
Large for The Athletic. He's one of the co hosts
of the NBA Daily over there. He also does stuff
for Raptors Republic. He's done stuff for Bleacher Report. He
done a lot of stuff, does it well. One of
my favorite people to talk to about hoops. So I
was able to grab him for our annual campfire s.
Speaker 1: How the heck are you doing? What up? Dude? I
don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm like reeling over you know, last nights. I don't
know when this drops. Last night's games against you know,
Steph Curry going crazy dropping fifty two yo kids, dropping
sixty one and a loss. The Westbrook experience, it was
just it was such a perfect, perfect night at basketball.
It makes you excited for the playoffs in a couple
of weeks.
Speaker 2: The Russell Westbrook experience colliding with the Minnesota Timberwolves experience
is just that is you know, in like, that's just
it's terrifying. It was My adrenaline was going, I have
no rooting interest in this, and I'm like, my heart
was pumping it was. That was an insane game. Steph
of course was insane, but like that entire sequence to close,
not the Timberwolves. One of those teams or both those
teams might come up. In this podcast, we're doing a
twenty twenty five NBA Playoffs pressure Index. Basically, S and
I are going to take turns just drafting teams that
we think have the most at stake entering the postseason.
Before we get started, I thought this was an interesting
first full circle. The first time you came on the pod,
we talked about teams that might be stuck in the middle.
Last year we did which rebuilding teams have the brightest future,
and now we've leaned into the playoff team. So I
feel like we've just over the past three years now
during our annual confat we have covered pretty much every
level that there is of like the competitive landscape.
Speaker 3: In year I don't even remember what we decided on
as the most best rebuild.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that by any chance? I think it was.
I think it was the Rockets. Yeah, okay, so we
did well. We didn't do that bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's actually fun fact and my Mike was
not plugged in for that episode that was on YouTube,
our most watched full length episode of So there you go.
You're a celebrity. The people want, the people want s.
We bring in s. You are the guests, though, So
I don't know if you want to get any general
criteria off your chest with how you approach this, otherwise
the floor will be yours for the first overall pick.
Speaker 3: So I think pressure for me generally, and shout out
to my guy Chris Bouchet shout out slim Gyms.
Speaker 1: Not sponsored, but they he sent.
Speaker 3: I actually used to have a little slim Gym thing
here on this desk because he sent me a great
shout out to slim Gym.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever had a slim Jym.
Speaker 2: Have you had a slim when I was younger, I
don't I feel that like.
Speaker 1: A hot rod hovering. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: So pressure for me in this situation was it's like
a combination of age, right, Older rosters technically tend to
have more pressure and just expectations. So those are the
two things that kind of cross intersect for me, and
I think the number one team should I go first?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, my number one team in terms of pressure
is probably gonna be the Golden State Warriors.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was not expecting that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: So, Look, they have been awesome since Jimmy Butler has
been there. It was like sixteen and four in their
first twenty games. They've become a top ten defense, a
top ten offense.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 3: Oka see is the massive, massive team here, and I
think we can talk about them eventually in terms of
pressure and their expectations and everything like that.
Speaker 1: There is a level of pressure there.
Speaker 3: But I think when you look at the age of
that roster, with Jimmy being I don't know, thirty six,
thirty seven years old, dre and Steph being around that
age as well, they don't have that many opportunities to compete.
And you don't know if this year, this version of
this team, this version of the players that they have
in Jimmy and Steph and Draymond, are going to be
the same version that you get next season. So you
have to maximize this window as much as possible. Sure,
you can convince yourself that, hey, you have a a
couple of years of a competitive window, but to me,
this is sort of the opportunity to do so. And
maybe they've caught lightning in a bottle and kind of
catch a team. Can they catch the thunder? I don't
know that remains to be seen, but you sort of
want a proof of concept here, and if they can
make a deep playoff run, I think it incentivizes them
to just continue on this path and like, you know,
keep rolling with this core.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's why I said the Warriors, I.
Speaker 3: Think just age is one of those things, and there's
no real path for them to improve the roster outside
of this unless they want to let Jonathan Kaminga walk
and figure out other ways to like sign you know,
different players and fill out their rotation that way.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's my spiel on the words.
Speaker 2: That might be the single biggest pressure point for them too.
As you mentioned Jonathan Kaminga is if it wasn't necessarily
clean before Jimmy Butler, now you add Jimmy Butler to
the equation, and the stuff that Jonathan Kaminga does best
is I don't want to say it's less valuable, but
there's gonna be less of Like you need him to
be more of just a cutter, a shooter, a defender,
a rebounder rather than someone who's featured on offense, And
I really don't think that's one of mine and Grant's
like biggest disagreements on this podcast is the ceiling of
Jonathan Kaminga. I just haven't seen it for long enough
that he can play such role. And what's interesting is
I guess I didn't even consider them because I looked
at it as like, well, what would their reaction be?
Kind of how I approached this, like what happens if
they lose?
Speaker 1: Right? Like what would they do?
Speaker 2: But now that you mentioned the Kamena part of it,
it's like, yeah, what would they do? Like do you
look at well they revisit you know, we talked about
hypothetically like do you dangle Jimmy Butler to get Kevin
Durant right moving Jonathan Kaminga in.
Speaker 1: A sign in trade?
Speaker 2: Or is a team like the Nets gonna actually have
interest to give him an offer sheet He's probably like
the Warriors. Jonathan Kamena dynamic is just so this pre
dates Jimmy Butler is just so bizarre.
Speaker 3: Well, it's because Joe lacub is a big, big believer
in Jonathan Kaminga and so anytime there's been an opportunity
to potentially trade him, or if there's a moment in
time where they have found some sort of agreement or
I guess a moment where they can sign him or
extend him. There has been at least from one side
or the other, a sort of disagreement on that number
and that term. And Joe Lacob is a big part
of that because he's a huge, huge, Jonathan kaminga believer.
How does that change this summer? That's part of it,
because he also has, to your point, not fit with
Jimmy Butler, and.
Speaker 1: Those numbers are bad.
Speaker 3: It's very bad, and it's duplicative a little bit in
terms of the areas and spaces that they want to
operate in.
Speaker 1: I think that's one question.
Speaker 3: I don't mean to make it be like Jonathan kaminga
is the biggest pressure point of this postseason. I just
think the Warriors in general have an immense amount of
pressure to prove that this blueprint works for them in
the postseason. I think they can be successful in doing that,
but there is still that pressure to kind of get
it done and make some noise in the playoffs to
make this kind of experiment worthwhile.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you are right, just because there's always urgency because
you're Steph Curry. But when you trade for Jimmy Butler,
like two guys in their mid thirties, Draymond makes three,
you're right, like even if you kind of tinker with
this roster, like what are you short of doing something nuclear?
Speaker 1: Like what are you actually going to be able to do?
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think when's the last time, I mean
since twenty twenty two, which really wasn't that long ago, Like,
when's the last time we sat here and said, like
I wouldn't pick the Warriors to beat OKAC, and I
wouldn't necessarily pick them against every other team, but like,
I think they have a real chance against every single
other team right now, And so you could argue that
type of title equity, like that's not a short even
if Steph was thirty one like that.
Speaker 3: Also, it's like you need to prove that you can
be in those conversations. If they get to a series
against OKAC and it's a sweep, you lose in five games,
I think that's cause for concern.
Speaker 1: I think that's pressure.
Speaker 3: But if it's a competitive six or seven games, you
feel like you threw your best punch, you just fell short,
and you're like, all right, we can regroup. If we
have a full season of these guys next year, we
can you know, kind of give them a run for
their money.
Speaker 1: It's also about.
Speaker 3: The way they lose would be part of the pressure
here compared to maybe some of these other teams of
how far they actually get.
Speaker 2: I'll move on to my first pick, which Chris was
also Grant wanted me to let everybody know that it
was also his first pick.
Speaker 1: Okay, the Milwaukee Bucks.
Speaker 2: In theory, the Damon Goglillard deep vein thrombosis, the blood
clot it does give them cover because I would personally
be surprised if he plays again this year. And you
could look at it and say, all right, we've had
two postseasons with the Dame and Giannis Era and they've
played exactly zero postseason minutes together. Then at that point,
so there's sort of the inkling of well, this just
needs more time. When Damian Lillard is as old as
he is, like, you don't get to just say that.
And you also did already make kind of a big decision.
It's not even kind of a huge decision by pivoting
off of Chris Middleton and bringing in Kyle Kuzma, and
now your brook Lopez entering free agency. You can trade
one up to one first round pick this summer. You
have some wiggle room under the luxury tax, but that's
immediately gone if you resign brook Lopez. So if you
bow out in the playoffs, it'll be expected, I think,
given like the current setup in Milwaukee. But like, what
are you supposed to do for do you just run
it back and say, like naa, like we need to
give this group more time. I don't know, like brook
Lopez getting older, Gianna's getting older, Dame getting older. I
don't know that you could sit there and do that
and something that's it's not flying under the radar, but
we're just not thinking about it yet. Like you probably
can't keep Gary Trent Junior oratory in prints at this point.
Speaker 1: And what if Kevin Porter junior for them.
Speaker 2: Basketball wise, has done enough to opt out, you're not
going to really probably be able to keep him either,
So they become reliant And that's just how it works
when you're a team that's this expensive. I don't know
what they're like, what opportunities will be available for them
to improve this roster or even like keep the supporting
cast at the same level that it is right now,
and so it's weird because they're under pressure. Like if
you get it probably gets harder to bring back brook
Lopez and run it back if you get bounced in
the first round, even if you don't have Dame.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they get
bounced in the first round. I think more than anything,
this is a pressure meter on Giannis and kind of
his expectations for this team, also his threshold for being
able to lose another first round or maybe second round
series and and kind of flame out. In that regard,
there's there's a level of they tried to get younger.
I don't necessarily understand the Chris Middleton trade as much
as I think there's there's a purpose to it in
terms of getting younger. But they tried to get younger.
That was their incentive. Even the Kevin Porter junior acquisition.
That's another aspect of them trying to get a little
bit younger to inject some sort of youth into this team.
I think that's one of their biggest issues is they
don't have and like A J. Johnson, by the way,
I know we weren't probably finding talking about the Wizards,
but he's he's doing some cool stuff. And Washington did
not get the opport to play in Milwaukee whatsoever. And
I don't know if it's a developmental thing. I don't
know if it's a process of finding prospects and giving
them the opportunity. But it just doesn't seem like they've
been able to replenish that asset pool in any meaningful way,
and that's put them in this very precarious position. I
had them and it second as sort of my pressure
meter thing, just because of the situation. The reason I
had them second was the Dame thing. It's like, does
that provide them the cushion to say, hey, we can
run it back next year, try again, and we'll just
see how it goes.
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 3: Also, Bobby Porters like him missing twenty. He'll be back
by the time they play the playoffs. But just generally
that aspect of it is sort of like, Okay, maybe
maybe discount the way that they are thinking of the
pressure of this Bucks team in the postseason.
Speaker 1: Should I should I give you my second pick?
Speaker 2: Well, just to respond to where you were saying, I
just sort of wonder Like you talk about them replenishing
their pool, it's like if they lose Gary krant Junior, yeah,
they're we're like specifically like, well you better hope, Like
Ryan Rollins has played well for them, They've gotten good
minutes from aj Green, Like are those guys just ready?
And like if Kyle Kuzma is going to continue to
shoot the way that he has for I guess years
at this point, Like you can't just say, oh, losing
Torrian Prints doesn't matter. So there's and honestly, I'm open
to the idea of like, okay, let's if you could
keep it all together. I'd be open to that idea.
I would still love to see this team be under
like rather than Adriene Griffin, rather than Doc Rivers. I
really wanted to see Giannison Dame with more of an
offensive innovator in there. So I don't even know if
I'm saying fire Doc Rivers. It would be like, can
we get like more of an innovated offensive architect. I
think Terry Stotts was at least to be supposed to
be part of that at one point for them, So
maybe there's something there. I will say, because this is
invariably gonna come up when you're talking about the pressure index.
If I am the bucks, I am not moving Giannison
tentto Kumbo unless he asks for it.
Speaker 1: Because you're not.
Speaker 2: Your picks are kind of so spread out like a
bunch of there's no Yeah, you can get a lot
of stuff for Yannis, but you can't reacquire like the
rights to all of your draft picks, and so that
minimizes the It's not like Phoenix can look at one
team right now and say, oh, they have control over
three of our draft picks, Like Milwaukee doesn't get the
point there and say that. And so I think I
honestly I would bet on Yannis, Like I would be
fairly surprised if it reached sort of a breaking point
this summer of all summers. That feels like we're maybe
a year ahead of it, but that still is like
part of their pressure index.
Speaker 1: For sure. He's averaging thirty two, twelve and six. So
is that good? It's pretty damn good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I think it's crazy to think about the
the I don't know, four or five years that Yiannis
has had and the way that it's ended every single year,
And so I could see the pressure of that actually
changing and snowballing to the point where it is him
wanting to be out this summer. Like I don't know
it like it does feel like we're trending towards that direction,
and the way this stuff snows makes me feel like
we're just this is the type of NBA we're in.
Like Daron Fox last year, it was like okay, like
maybe we could see a world you know, contract extension maybe,
and then it just happened and it was like, okay. Now,
even with the Ja Morant situation, you just hear murmurs,
whispers here and there, people talking from the outside like, oh,
could he be available? Guarantee you in the next year
somehow we're gonna be start start talking about Ja Morant
trades and that's.
Speaker 1: That might even be.
Speaker 2: That might even be a long like timeline, like it
might happened within like a couple months, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it just I don't know.
Speaker 3: The Yannis thing has been for what it's worth, It's
been brought up so many times over the last four
or five years, right like, oh, will he ask out
or is this the opportunity? You know, there were teams
gearing up the Raptors were a team that was gearing
up in twenty twenty to go Afterman free agency before
he inked that contract extension. Like, there's been moments in
time where people thought Yiannis would be available and he
hasn't been. So maybe he's the exception to the rule here.
But I just I don't know. Maybe this is the
final straw that broke the camel's back.
Speaker 2: They've you know what it is, They've always been able
to do something when it felt like they were reaching
an inflection point. And now you look at them and say, what,
how could you move Dame and get better? I don't
know that you can necessarily do that, So that will
be the And maybe and by the way, what happens
if they just go on this wildly deep playoff run
without Damian Lillard? Yeah, that would be like another weird
be like, oh, we're just gonna integrate him and we'll
be fine. I think it's probably the default stance, but
that would just be weird for everybody. Right if the
Bucks just end up in the conference finals and Damian
Lillard' is not a part of it.
Speaker 3: Look right now they're facing the Knicks. Do you even
without Dame do they have a chance? Giannis goes absolutely crazy?
Speaker 1: Is that pick them to win that series?
Speaker 2: But I have on record many times as saying, like,
there's a chance that the Knicks are just like really
the fourth, fifth or sixth best team in the East
when it comes to a playoff setting. Yeah, so it
wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker 1: And that was a series.
Speaker 2: Like I mean, imagine thing they go in the conference finals,
they put up a fight against like Cleveland or something
like that would just be that'd be bizarre, or it
would be whoever they have to face, how the bracket
shakes out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it would be.
Speaker 3: And like, when you have a player like Giannis, this
is sort of similar to the Nugget situation, although I
think the Nuggets are much more well equipped to actually
make a run. When you have a player like Giannis,
you always have a chance in a series. And so
like you put them up against the Knicks, who I
think are a better team than the Bucks this season,
for sure, they have a chance. You put them up
against Boston, It's gonna be tough for them to guard Giannis.
It's just can aj Green shoot forty five percent from
three for sixteen games in a row and can Gary
Trent Junior do the same thing?
Speaker 1: And I don't know, can Dame come back in the
second round? I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's just there's so many what ifs to the Bucks
scenario of how they do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, they just since winning the title, they've just
been It was kind of like, remember, Okac makes the
finals and then they go through all those just injuries,
Grant Westbrook obaka, it.
Speaker 1: Was back and forth, right yeah, Grant one years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I think, wasn't it was Middleton after
the Bucks one. Then it's been y honest the past
two years, and then now it's Dame. It's just it sucks.
Speaker 3: Day missed the year too, right, or they missed the
postseason in one of them. I can't remember exactly what
it was.
Speaker 2: We Dame's first postseason was last year? Right, Yeah, it
wasn't the one who was Yeah, who do you have
as your second?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: This is this is actually very interesting too. Wow, this
is an awesome Chris Bouchet picture.
Speaker 2: It's funny because no one's ever going to see this
aside from you. And so that was that was I
was was hoping you would at least get.
Speaker 1: A kick out that's awesome, man, this is tough.
Speaker 3: I was actually gonna go with Milwaukee, so this is
I'm kind of open now to a range of different,
you know, kind of options here. I kind of feel
like I want to go Memphis just because we're in
the car. Yeah, let's talk about the Memphis Grizzlies, who
are sliding.
Speaker 1: I've lost four in a row.
Speaker 3: They have this new head coach and Twamas Salo, who
they clearly are like prepping to be the guy for
them moving forward. Losing against Golden State in the fashion
that they lost where it was like the first half
they looked dejected.
Speaker 1: They didn't.
Speaker 3: They just looked like they were late to every rebound,
late to every rotation, just felt like they were getting
out hustled and Steph was going crazy on them. And
then to kind of claw back into that game and
still eventually lose to Steph. It feels like they're just
like short of being a very very good team in
the West, even at full strength. And so I know
they're missing Brandon Clark. He's a big part of their
kind of line up fluidity and everything like that. But
you should be able to kind of keep things afloat
here and they haven't been able to do that at all.
Their defense has fallen off a cliff. I think if
you asked me two months ago, I would have had
Jaron Jackson Junior as defensive player of the Year. But
he has been part of the problem here with the
fouling and everything that he's done on that side, with
with just getting out of games and not being able
to play and finish games because the foul trouble. And
ultimately this team of this mishmash roster of guys who
like are either very very good offensively or very very
good defensively, and there's no in between. Missing some of
that lineup fluidity of a Brandon Clark could be the
make or break of this team being able to go far.
Roundabout way of saying, this team has immense amounts of
pressure because of the jamarant situation, because of the fact
that there's so much I guess uncertainty heading into the postseason,
and it feels like they're falling. And so you know,
two months ago, you were looking at this team as
a second or a third seed, having home court advantage
in a postseason series, maybe potentially playing a team that
they could beat, and now they might be in a
situation where they play okay, see or they play I
don't know, the Lakers or the Nuggets, and it's like, damn,
you are a first round out and that's tough. That's
very tough coming off the season that they had where
they won I don't know, twenty five games or whatever
it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for so long year they were the only
team that was in the top five of both offense
and defense. And it ends up just there. I'd be
with you, they were my second team. And I actually
think the John Morant they can't really start before that
because you can't make trades. The John Morant trade rumor
Milam convinced is going to start this season, and I
don't even know if it's gonna because he doesn't want
to be there as much as they I really think
need to look at it and say, well, what they
want to do offensively? Like is he the guy to
get them there? I think John Morant is fantastic. I
don't think they've ever surrounded him with enough shooting overall,
but like the results in the half court have been
for the most part, just I mean, like in the
regular season. Yeah, there was a point where the stuff
that they were running. I think Nate Larroche was the
guy who was like responsible, they said, even though it
felt like Islo was brought in first, Wasn't it Like
that reporting from ESPN was bizarre And it sort of
leads me into the Grizzlies front office here, like they
deserve to be under a microscope totally way they handle
the coaching stuff, and they've just they've made they made
bad moves with Smart and then you have to give
up a pick to get off him. But then the
other thing is just like they've also kind of done
nothing to like how long have we been waiting for
them to get like a properly sized wing with some
boss Soliday?
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It could have been like since Rudy Gay at this point.
It feels like I thought it was gonna be Nia
Williams at one point. I'm not gonna lie, so that's
my fault there. But like, if they even want to
make a bigger move, because I'm convinced their postseason is
just gonna end or whoever they face in the first round,
I'm picking the other team like flat out, and if
they end early, okay, Like they still have a bunch
of assets, but like they don't have a ton of
salary matching tools unless you're going into the Jaron Jackson Junior,
John Moran or Desmond Baine. I think Jared Jackson Junior
is probably the most important player on this team moving forward.
So are you gonna move Bain? Can you move John
Moran and get better? Like, yes, you have Brandon Clark's salary.
You'll have John Contra on the book, so you could
still make like i'll call the medium sized moves.
Speaker 1: Isn't that enough for this team?
Speaker 2: It can even get it done because they weren't. They
were like quibbling over picks with Dori and Phinney Smith,
who probably wasn't even perfect for what they needed, but
would have made them better, I would argue, at least
for the postseason. Uh, they're under a ton of pressure
because it's just like there's a lot of talent here.
They're deep, But I just don't know if I mean,
now we have to ask whether they could be good
enough defensively, but I think that it could be good
enough on offense.
Speaker 3: This is interesting because it just as you were talking,
I kind of just thought about it. But like them
being so chaotic heading into the postseason and they're being
so much uncertainty with jaw, the coaching staff, the defense,
all of that. Would that actually be less pressure now
because they know there's so much uncertainty and it's like,
all right, the pressure is off because we are expecting
to flame out here and then we have to regroup
in the summer and figure things out. Is that is
there sort of an inverse effect here between pressure and
expectations because of what's happened over the last week.
Speaker 2: I wonder if that would correlate to Okay, the front
office is maybe like not on the hot seat because
even if you bet, like if you have to fix
things over the offseason, if that's still entail making like
pretty significant moves or to the roster, yeah so, and
but that it does get that you just made me
because something else. What happens if they just outperform expectations
in the playoffs?
Speaker 1: Is it right?
Speaker 2: Well, let's just move forward with isl here and we're
gonna I guess like you trying, Yeah on the table
where Memphis kind of just runs it back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could. Look, they have to pay Jaron Jackson Jr.
That's again priority number one. And there also is the
Santi Aldama question, who I think has been very good
for them. Uh, and so they have to either pay
him or not pay him. And if they didn't pay him,
the why didn't they move him? That's a different question.
But like that's another thing that they have to hurdle.
They are not going to pay the tax. They're not
going to go over the tax for this team. It
just doesn't seem like it's something the Grizzlies mo o
is has ever been really, so that's part of the equation.
And yeah, maybe it is trading one of their core
three guys to upgrade roster in some sort of way,
But that always feels like the last string effort, right
like that, that feels like the last thing you do
before you end up making these massive, massive changes to
the team, like the Bucks. We just talked about them
with the whole Giannis and Dame thing. Like trading Chris
Middleton was a big, big deal this team. He was
like a massive part, a pillar of the organization for years,
and trading him just felt like one domino that was
going to proceed, you know, the little tiny domino to
the big domino of something happening. You know, the meme
I know, you know the name. Yeah, that's that's what
it kind of feels like for the Bucks. Maybe that's
what this firing is for the Grizzlies of Taylor Jenkins.
You kind of knock off that domino of like you're
just firing this coach who's been part of this group
for I don't know five seasons now. That probably leads
to making wholesale changes to this entire roster. But yeah,
that's why there's pressure. I agree with you, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I get Look, they could still just
do stuff on the margins and maybe better too, Like
there's if you attach first round pick to some salary.
I just don't know, like they would be a fun
KD team, but you are. You're not getting to that
money without giving up a band.
Speaker 3: Fifty's gonna be tough to get to without trading, right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they were my number two team, which means
I will pivot to my number three team here, but
it's our number four team overall, my second pick. I
was still debating with this. I'm gonna go with the
Houston Rockets, and I interesting there they are operating with
a level of found money just because like they are
better than anyone expected.
Speaker 1: But if they follow the way of.
Speaker 2: The Orlando Magic where they got into the playoffs last
year and what happened against the Caps, they lost exactly
how we knew that the Magic were gonna lost, Like
pal Bankara was really good, but like the offense just
didn't have the juice, So we looked at them over
the offseason. I got way too excited over the KCP
signing because I thought it portended more from them.
Speaker 1: They did Diddley.
Speaker 2: Squat after that. Really, aside from your talent retention, if
you're Houston, people are expecting you to kind of lose
much in the same way where it's okay, like your
second chance offense and your transition offense isn't going to
be able to carry you in the playoffs. And when
you get into the half court, all right, you have
Jalen Green, you have Shanegun, you have Fred van Fleet.
You're still hovering around the bottom ten and half court
efficiency this year, so it's just like that's going to
be a problem in the playoffs. And if you then
lose while struggling on offense, you have to make changes.
And there doesn't need to be a rush to say
give up everything for KD go get Devin Booker. At
the same time you have paid Jaalen Green, You've paid
sh shng gun. Jabari Smith and Tarry Easton are both
extension eligible this summer, and then you got to start
thinking about like, oh, Cam Whitmore and a'm and Thompson
are Almosuden extensionaledgeble next summer. So this roster is it's fun,
it's young, they have a ton of optionality. I'm not
writing if they lose in the first round in five games,
I don't think that that makes this season a failure.
But you have to take the information of how unless
you make it to the conference finals, you have to
look at how you lose in one of the first
two rounds and say, okay, like what do we do
to address this issue? Because yes, you're young, but you
are going to get progressively more expensive even if you
stay the name.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is a cause for concern of
maybe being too reactionary based on what you see in
the postseason two and I hope the Rockets don't do that.
There is pressure on their individual players of like, okay,
how will Jalen Green look in a postseason setting? Can
he get his game off. Can he be March and
April Jalen green Well in this case, you know, he
was actually pretty great in January and December two, But
generally can he be the positive version of himself or
is he going to resort to the shot chucking, inefficient
version of himself that we've seen as well. I think
there's also a big question for Albert and Shangun, and
you know team's going to be trying to target him defensively.
I think he's improved on the defensive end, but there's
pressure to see if he can be your guy as
a back line defender for a team that's trying to
buy for a championship. That's another question moving forward with
the team. Amen Thompson, I think he will. He's an
extremely smart and talented problem solver. The fact that he's
shooting twenty five percent from three and still finds a
way to be super impactful offensively. You mentioned the transition
stuff that's that's a huge part of his game. If
that drives up, how is he able to put his
impact on this game on the offensive end, because like,
that's another question you have to address so individually, there's
questions for all of these young guys that the Rockets
are building with. I think that's a fair question. I
think that's fair amount of pressure. And to your point,
if these guys, like if Jalen Green has a really
really bad first round series, how does that change their
value in the offseason, because now you're looking at them like, oh, well,
because things it's very fickle like that, right, It could
go from you know, right now we're saying, well, yes,
Jalen Green plus picks and maybe Jabari Smith Junior, etc.
Speaker 1: Etc.
Speaker 3: Could get you in the room for a Devin Booker
or Kevin Durant, especially if it's the Suns picks.
Speaker 1: Right, sure, yeah, but.
Speaker 3: But that might change if Jalen Green shoots twenty five
percent from the field for like four games.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be here for the discourse of that.
It's not gonnat well, I think what's also so I
actually agree with what you're kind of saying that continuity
can in some ways be like the great market inefficiency.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also.
Speaker 2: Given the way, like when you know what's kind of
going on with the second apron and how teams are
scared of it, it's gonna function as a like a
really hard cap.
Speaker 1: It's a hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it kind of already is when you
looked at some of the stuff that's happened, like the
windows are shorter, and it feels like there's more urgency,
like to make the most of if you think that
you have it. And with the Rockets, they have a
ton of different avenues to explore, where if you just
pick up Fred van Fleet's team option, that's like forty
plus million dollars that you can move in a singular
player and you have the draft equity to say, well,
we don't have to cut our young core to do
something so long as we're willing to you know, foot
the bill for not everyone at all at once, but like
Shangou Green and whoever we use with the van Fleet salary,
I think what adds to the pressure is that whoever
you the player.
Speaker 1: We think they need, and again maybe.
Speaker 2: They prove us wrong during the playoffs, but the player
we think they need in all likelihood they come in
and there's going to be a marginalization of I would
say Shangoon or Jalen Green as a result of that,
because if you get yeah, kd is plug and play,
Devin book are ultra scalable, but you want the ball
in those guys's hands as well, and like you know,
Shangoon and Green, that's not like the part of their
games where they just excel is like, let's have them
off the ball a boat load, and so then it
gets it.
Speaker 1: Also, just wanted to mention Emao O Doka.
Speaker 3: It's not like he's some like offensive whiz where he's
running like it's very like self reliant offense. Let's iso
let's find mismatches. And that, to your point, I think
makes the Rockets struggle offensively in the half court a lot.
So you incorporate Katie, you incorporate Booker. It's sorry, go ahead, that's.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's really it though, And so then
you have to get in the discussion of well, then
which of the youngsters that we paid are we moving?
And I think a lot of people would just say, oh,
it's not gonna be Shanggoon. And it's like, well, what
if Yannis becomes available right with Houston, are you not
gonna go after No, You're gonna go after Yannis and
then do him and Shanguon and Aman Thompson makes sense
on the same roster. Defensively, you could be a monster
and you'll grab a ton of rebounds, but like, no,
there's just no. So they're fascinating and it's maybe pressure
could be the wrong word, but I do think that
there's a chance, more so than any other team that
we've talked about, because we've mentioned like, oh, maybe Memphis
futzes and fiddles on the margins, maybe the Bucks just
run it back because of the Dame thing. I think
Houston set up to where the postseason will define their
off season more so than maybe any other team that
we've discussed so far.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's ultimately fair.
Speaker 3: I think they are one of those teams that's gonna
look at the postseason as information on their young guys
and see if that information is something that they like
and that in itself can be a level of pressure. Okay,
I'm actually surprised we've got to this level and haven't
meant in this team. Honestly, I'm pretty surprised.
Speaker 2: I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm gonna go ahead and say, Okay, se
has pressure and it's crazy one thing, Yeah, thank you,
go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's I think, and it's it does a
disservice to the sun thunder to just like to say
that they're still operating with found money or could do whatever. Right,
You're the best team in the league in an all
time defense and the MVB favorite. Like there's thank you,
thank you for bringing them up.
Speaker 3: Look they they I was actually man, I was very,
very tempted to list them as my second pick. And
the reason I did it was because the Grizzlies uncertainty
and whatnot. But the Thunder should be should have a
lot of pressure. Like historically every single number you look at.
This is one of the best regular season teams of
all time, one of the best defenses of all time.
I think they're the best net rating of all time.
I don't know it's either them or the ninety six Bulls.
It kind of flip flops back and forth every game.
They are on pace to win seventy games. We'll see
if that eventually happens. I'm not sure they're also even
if they win sixty nine. They're one of the most
historic teams. Their Eastern Conference record is what twenty three
and one something crazy like that. They also just dominate
teams on every level, and they have an MVP level
player and Shay is likely going to win MVP it
seems like that's gonna happen. There's pressure in the fact that,
like last year, they lost in the second round to
the Mavericks, when most people thought that, like they are
going to make a conference finals run. They won the conference.
They should have made a conference finals run. I think
that was a disappointing end. But people chalked it up
to age, People chalked it up to experience, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 1: I don't think that excuse is.
Speaker 3: Here this season, even though they still are young, even
though they still have that age factor.
Speaker 1: Because we talk about pressure.
Speaker 3: They got to pay Jaylen Williams this summer, They got
to pay Chet Holmgren eventually, I think it's this summer
as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, so now you're locked into that core. And yes,
that could give you some fluidity to try and make
moves around the margin. With Loudort's salary and Aaron Wiggins
is blossoming and his contract is extremely team friendly. All
that type of stuff is valid and true. But you're
eventually gonna have to pay Case and Wallace, and you
just paid Alex Caruso and Hartenstein's money comes off the
books in like a year or something.
Speaker 1: Like that option on year three.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so you're kind of put in a situation
where you do have that like contractual pressure too to
keep this team and have them win. And if they
don't make the finals, and that's it, like that's the level.
It's not a conference finals run. That would be a disappointment.
If they don't make the finals, that is a disappointing
season for the Thunder, who have had a historic season
for all intents and purposes, every single number you look at,
they're having a historical season. There's pressure in that. There's
inherent pressure in everything that they have to do in
the next I don't know, month and a half to
try to get to the finals.
Speaker 2: I think you can make the case that if we
were to do this from a player perspective, that Jaln
Williams could be under the single most amount of pressure
of any player entering the postseason, because I think if
you're the Thunder, let's say they lose in the conference
finals or something, but you believe that and like the
defense is gonna hold up in the playoffs. There we
don't even have a car, Like there's no scenario in
which the Thunder just get the doors, get blown off them.
If they lose, it's probably gonna be what happened last year,
where the non Shay offense just wasn't good enough even
with Shay on the court. That's going to come down to,
especially because of chet Holgrim's injury this year, like his
role hasn't really broadened as much. That'll then invariably come
back to Jallen Williams his extension, like you mentioned, and
you can sit there as the thunder and say like, no, like,
we still believe that he is going to be that guy,
So we're gonna sit tight let him develop. And I
think he's closer to that than not. And I think
some of the stuff about the non SGA minutes has
been overblown this year as they've gotten quote unquote healthier,
because they've still had people missed a bunch of time.
You have the equivalent of a top five offense when
at least two of Shay or Isaiah Hartensteiner on the
court without say yeah, and so the non Shay minutes
become even less important during the playoffs because there's gonna
be fewer of them, and so you're kind of just
counting on these guys. If teams throw the kitchen sink
at Shay, who's the guy that needs to go get
the shot, sometimes from scratch or maybe set up others.
It'll probably be Jaylen Williams more than not, And I
do think he's capable of rising to that occasion up,
but like you just need the thunder are so good
that if he doesn't, if there's any misstep, even if
it's even if he has a fantastic first two rounds
and then like falls apart in the conference finals. Again,
not a prediction. That's going to be a discussion for
whether you view that as fair or not. And I
think you including them here is just a sign of
respect for the level of which they're operating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that this team will make it to
the NBA Finals. And to your point, of all the
issues that they have, I actually really believe in the
Chett Hartenstein minutes generally, especially since they've played over the
last like month and a half, they especially without Shay
on the floor, have been dominating in those minutes. And
it's a matter of like, Okay, hart and Stein is
a great passer, good screener and home run. Is this
like massive target for Hartenstein to hit on cuts? He's
also a great shooter, So it just provides some tons
of versatility, et cetera, et cetera. Maybe that's a source
of offense for them in the postseason outside of SGA
and so you can find I just think there's so
many solutions on this Thunder team that I think they
should make the finals, and there's pressure inherently in that
aspect of it if they lose to I don't know
the Nuggets, or if they lose, because I really don't
think anyone in the West is as good as them.
Speaker 2: So there's not a team that if they lost to
in the West you'd feel comfortable saying, God get it.
Speaker 3: The only team I would feel ten percent confident in
or at least okay with is the Nuggets because Nikola
Jokic is the best player in the world, and if
he just had as what he did last night, where
he goes forty ten and ten through an entire postseason
series and no chet, no heart and Stein, none of
those guys can stop them. Okay, tip your hat, all good,
we'll come back next year. We'll have a better series.
That's I think the best case scenario for a non
finals run for the Thunder also would say, like, if
they made it to the finals and it's somehow Cleveland.
On the other side, if they didn't beat the Calves,
that would be disappointing for me. I think that would you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I might have more respect for the Calves than you.
Speaker 1: I hear you. I do too.
Speaker 3: Look, I don't want to make it seem like I'm
discrediting the Calves, but like, it would make me feel
better if they went to the finals lost against Boston
in a competitive ish series, you know what I mean?
That to me is more of a successful year than
going to the finals against the Calves, who don't have
or maybe equal in terms of the playoff experience. Donovan
Mitchell obviously has tons of his playoff experience, but like, no,
none of those guys have had finals experience.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that would be just.
Speaker 2: I mean, like the thunder guys haven't either.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know it's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so the only thing I have. I
can't envision anyone in the West. I'm with you beating
Okac four times and seven tries. I think I would
default to the Nuggets, like, oh, I get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like had.
Speaker 2: The Mavericks not treated Luca like maybe they'll mix up.
I talk about there and I had at the beginning
of the year, and this was probably like everyone's default pick.
I had Boston over Okac in the finals. The only
aspect I'm rethinking about that is whether I would still
have Boston winning because Okac is just I think they've
answered pretty much every concern that I had about them,
and they did so, by the way, while getting less
than stellar collective availability when you look at how much
time Chet Holmgren and ISAIAHS. Hartenstein missed both at the
same time but then separately as well. So, yeah, do
you think cause you mentioned this about Memphis, and does
the uncertainty kind of help them take like take away
from the pressure. Do you think that okay, see, just
having the ability to make whatever move that they like,
they can create their own trade market, that is, your
own adventure assets. Does that like winnow down the pressure
at all because it's all right, like they did this,
well they can just go out and fix that by
getting player X, or does it like I guess it
might depend on if it is because j dub or
even Chet struggles like it increases the stakes because of
oh that was our second or third best player that
was having the biggest problem.
Speaker 3: I should say, I think this is all external pressure.
I think internally they feel no pressure at all, and
the exam.
Speaker 2: Press he's gonna go to the postseason talking about like breadth,
We've only had our breath.
Speaker 3: It's like time for not exactly look we we we
on the Athletic Nbaday that we talked to. I think
it was Sam amc who we were talking about, like, okay,
see's expectations and whatnot, and he was quick to address that.
It's not just Mark Dagnall who's like tempering expectations. It
is something from the higher ups on the Thunder saying we, yes,
of course we're awesome and we're having a great season,
but like this is only step one in the process
or step two in the process of us getting to
that point where we need to get to. So they
internally it doesn't feel like they have that level of
pressure on themselves. I think externally that's where the pressure
comes from, where it's like, Okay, you have someone to
answer to if you don't make the finals. I think
that's a very very fair expectation to have for this team,
and it's respect to your point, it's a deep desire
for this team to want to make it to the finals.
I love watching Okay, see, they're probably one of my
favorite teams in the league. Watching them do what they've
done this year has been a joy. You just want
to see it through. You want to be right about
the fact that they've been this historic.
Speaker 2: I think you found the sweet spot for them, where
if you would put them number one or two, it
might have felt like a little overreaction because what you
mentioned about the internal pressure not being as high, by
the way, not the only reason he stills his job,
but just generally speaking, if you're an executive in the NBA,
what Sam Presty has done to temper expectation, that's great
for job security. So I would eleven of ten recommend
that for all other front offices. And then in Chicago,
the different type of job security is like, well, we
don't have our plan yet, we're still mapping it.
Speaker 1: In Yeah, we're still figuring out yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So but I think you found the sweet spot for them.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: My third pick is going to be the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to Okay.
Speaker 2: They are, I mean the Carl Anthony Towns trade, like
it wasn't nearly as shocking as Luca Dnch's trade, but
like that's a trade that I'm still going to be
thinking about a half decade from now. The timing of
it was weird, the like the process from the Wolves's end,
where I think everyone kind of assumed, even though they've
said the exact contrary, like, oh, this is because they
think Randall's gonna opt out and they just want that
money off the books. And maybe, but like Julius Randall
has very clearly been their second most important player this season,
so you can't just say, well, if he leaves, like
between age eighty nine, Mike Conley and whatever Jade McDaniels
has done, plus Rob Dilling and nas reed like we're
gonna be fine. And oh hey, by the way, like
naz Reid can opt out of his contract and Nikil
Alexander Walker is a free agent.
Speaker 1: We know what the cap space landscape is.
Speaker 2: You and I there's really one team that's gonna have
a meaningful cap space and so you shouldn't be in
danger of losing any of those guys. What if you
decide you need to keep Randall and then it's could
like your wiggle room beneath the Aprons. Now, a lot
of that will evaporate if you have to give Like
if if Julius Randall ns Reed both pick up their
player options and maybe you're able to extend them off
that that'll buy you some wiggle rooms to Okay, maybe
we can keep Nikile Alexander Walker. Our tax bills like
way more reasonable than it will have been this season.
We're not a second Apron team. But like, if Naz
Reed ops out and you're thinking that the Nets or
maybe the Pistons carbout space or somebody is a threat
to give him twenty twenty five million dollars a year,
you're gonna have to make tough decisions. And we talked
about this off air before we got started. Let's not
forget about the actual basketball of it all, where it's
they are getting up for big games. Have there's only
three teams with a better net rating against top ten
teams this year. Somehow, the Minnesota Timberwolves still have a
losing record in those games. And then on the flip
side of the equation, I know they've played more crunch
time minutes, their winning percentage in clut situations is lower
than that of.
Speaker 1: The Washington Wizards.
Speaker 2: This team makes no fucking sense and I will never
quit them because I'm so high on what their peak
could be. But they have like pressure from both sides
of the coin, where it's okay if you do well,
like are.
Speaker 1: You gonna are you gonna keep this group together?
Speaker 2: And then if you don't, like you can't just let it,
like what are you going to do to get better?
Like what you don't have first round picks to trade
aside from Detroit's pick this year, And then it's They've
been mentioned tangentially in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes, and I
think he'd be really interesting there because I think it's
clear maybe Dillingham eventually gets there, like with Conley getting
older edwards, like again, maybe he eventually gets there, Like
they just don't have an A plus playmaker on this
team right now. So if you get Kevin Durant, he
doesn't give you that, but he like eclipses the need
for it a little bit. But like, are you gonna
give up? Like it's not just gonna be Randall and
Filler salary, Like you're gonna have.
Speaker 1: To give up?
Speaker 2: I would say, like Jade McDaniels and or Rob Dillingham.
And then if Randall's not a part of it, are
you willing to give up Rudy Gobert in a trade
like that? Would Phoenix even have interest?
Speaker 1: They are?
Speaker 2: The pressure's just it's real. I think with new ownership
coming in that'll matter too. I think you can make
case that they're even higher on this list. The only
reason I wouldn't put them higher the standings are what
they are at this point, and so I do believe
they have a very high pinnacle. I just think we've
seen enough to be skeptic as like, well, I don't
expect them to sustain this peak over the course of
four playoff series at this point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dan, honestly, we are so on point with Minnesota,
Like I completely in line with basically everything you said.
So I don't have any notes, but I will say
I listen to the Dane Moore podcast or like a
snippet that he drops, he covers the Minnesota Timbers.
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, that's one of our shout there, so they
do so could work.
Speaker 3: So he did like a twelve minute breakdown of what
would happen contractually between Naseri and Nikhil Alexander Walker, Julius Randall,
and basically the gist is they would only be able
to keep two of the three. You know, any sort
of situation you kind of look at, they're probably gonna
end up keeping two of the three, which means you
lose talent, which means you're hoping that.
Speaker 1: And I actually think they've done a.
Speaker 3: Pretty good job with this draft class, like Rob Dillingham,
Clark been interesting, Terrence Shannon also an interesting player, Like
you can see these guys stepping into bigger roles. Even
josh Mine not honestly has some moments where you're like, oh,
this is an interesting player. I could see their young
crop of players filling in rotation spots pretty quickly for them.
So that's a positive side to this thing that I
think I want to harp on because I think maybe
that alleviates some of the pressure of we have to
replace all of these guys immediately. I do think in
the near future, if they don't go to Kevin Durant route,
they're probably going to end up going the youth development.
Let's go younger and figure out a core that fits
around Anthony Edwards a little bit more route. How that
looks for the Rudy Goberts of the roster, the Julius
Randalls or the roster. The Mike Conley's are the roster.
That's a different question. But to your point about pressure,
this is the most confusing team in the NBA by far,
one of the most confusing teams that I've watched. One
night you watch them, you're like, this is like they
have the peak of a Western Conference finals team. Hey,
they could you know, this is the level that they
can reach. And then the other night, you know they'll
lose to like the Brooklyn Nets or the Charlotte Hornets,
and you're like, what is going on with this Timberwolves team?
But like you, I can't give up on him. I
really really enjoy it. And maybe that's the magnetism of
Anthony Edwards and just how good he is and like
the level that he can get to when he's in
no give a fuck mood, like he just doesn't give
a fuck about anything and he just goes off. But
it's just very confusing roster. And also the new ownership
situation makes me vitalized. Yeah, just finalized today, makes me
like they will go out and do something, because that's
what new owners do, and it just be funny if
it's a Kevin Durant thing because that's what happened in Phoenix,
you know, and we know how that's ended up.
Speaker 2: But yeah, what so I have a twofold question for you. First,
what would be because the whole keeping two of those
three guys like that makes sense, but I think if
that's all you do, what would be the like how
far in the playoffs do they have to go for.
Speaker 1: That to be okay?
Speaker 2: For even or even for them to say we're just
gonna run it back as is for something like what
would be is it getting out of just the first round?
That's just wonder Oh no, like they need to win
two series? It a competitive second round series?
Speaker 3: What would you view as like the yeah, probably probably
the second round competitive series? And again it shit, it
depends on how this playoff.
Speaker 2: Right, If you're facing Okay see in round two, like, yeah,
that's good luck.
Speaker 3: But like let's say they face Houston in round one
and beat Houston in round one and you're like, Okay,
that was a good series, but you know, Houston's younger
than us, They're they're still learning.
Speaker 1: That's not like our our level.
Speaker 3: Who are we facing now we face Denver or Golden State,
and in that series, you you kind of give yourself
a very very good chance to win and if you
fall short. I think that's okay. I think that's the
level that I'd be. Okay if I'm Minnesota, I am not.
I can't remember if you are. I am not the
biggest Julius Randall believer when it comes to postseason basketball.
Speaker 1: I think the last do they do those?
Speaker 2: Does such a thing exist?
Speaker 3: I have no idea, but like you saw it last
night against Denver, where there's moments where it's like, okay,
he'll throw a cross court pass and it easily gets intercepted,
or like he'll have an opportunity to drive the basketball
just terrified passes it Nikil Alexander Walker in the corner,
and it's like these are the moments where Karl Anthony
Towns past that hurdle. Like I think it was a
huge moment for him. It was like an inflection point
in his career last year in the postseason versus Denver. Yes,
he had a bad series against against the Mavericks, but
against Denver it felt like he figured out, Okay, this
is how you play postseason basketball. That does not happen
for Julius Randall yet.
Speaker 2: No, and yeah, you don't have the spacing around him
either to believe that like total live drible decision making
will ever be more like, yeah, he could make some
good passes, the physicality on his dries and ability to
draw fouls, but yeah, you're never gonna weed out like
you need. I think Pristine's spacing around him like at
minimum to weed out like some of the stuff that
you're already talking about. And that was kind of my
second question to you is just anecdotally, and this is
tough to answer without knowing how the playoffs unfold. If
you're in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes, I will say, let's
make one optimistic point. Let's say Julius Randa will opt
in and either Phoenix is taking him or you're finding
a third team that will take on that expiring money. Sure,
you still need another sizeable salary. Are you including like
if this is like, are you including Jada McDaniels. I
guess is my point? If it's getting you what will
be age thirty seven? Kevin duran ors that just if
you're the Wolves, is that a non starter?
Speaker 3: Let me just see what the Wolf's payroll is, because like,
is there any other way for us to do it
without McDaniels.
Speaker 1: That's that would be my question back to you.
Speaker 2: Well, I think so there is, but like the most
convenient way actually might be is like can you flip
did the Suns want a big would you flip Rudy
gober And do you prefer to have like Kevin Durant,
J Mack and Nad Reed or you prefer to have
Kevin Durrant and Rudy gober And, Like it would be
it would be an interesting thought exercise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and Gobert is getting up there
in age, so you kind of start to question if
like the next two years of his contract and he's
you know, he has thirty six point five million dollars
next year, thirty eight million dollar player option next the
year after that, and it's like, how is that gonna
look on your roster moving forward? Maybe you do want
to get ahead of that and trade that contract. So
that's that's fair, But then you have to replace Ruddy
Gobert's defensive talents, and like, ultimately he does provide a
massive level of room protection. I was looking at their
lineup data yesterday just as we were watching the game,
and he's basically in every single lineup that's positive for
them because he wins a huge amount of their minutes
on the defensive end. So how do you replace that
with Randall and Nasried and maybe Kevin Durant And you
fall into the to the situation of like, are you
Phoenix at that point? Are you just a different version
of the Phoenix Suns where you don't have the rim
protection and defensive ability. That's you have to ask that
same question if you trade McDaniels. So it's like, I
don't know, I don't know what the value proposition there is.
You could also trade de Vincenzo and maybe get there
with like the Terrence Shannons of the world and hope
you can get kind of like just say Randall plus prospects,
here you go.
Speaker 2: But I wonder, I'd like, I wonder there would have
to be having a third team that really wants like
a Dillingham in that situation would be my guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But or maybe Phoenix.
Speaker 2: Is trading Devin Booker as well, and they're.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, maybe they're just like done, they want to restart.
I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think they are the course
to your point for the Kevin Durant sweepstakes. Also, like,
why why not if you're if you're in this situation,
why not try to go for Devin Booker?
Speaker 2: Like what, well, there's no way, Like do they have
the assets for Devin Booker?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that's true, that's true. You're right. I'm
getting ahead of myself here.
Speaker 2: Dude, who is your This will be your fourth team?
Speaker 1: Right right? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, how about the team that traded for Karl Anthony
Towns in the New York Knicks.
Speaker 2: Oh, how was debating whether they were going to make
my list. I'm excited to talk about them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So, like, obviously have been very very impressive offensively this year,
missing Jalen Brunson over the last couple of weeks. O
g Anobe has been awesome in that time, but like
generally not the defensive team that you would want or
hope to be. They have not been able to beat
any real good teams, like.
Speaker 1: Against the under of the year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like it's very clear they're not at
the level that they expected they'd beat. That being said,
watching the Wolves over the last two or three years.
It does feel like there is an adjustment period for
Karl Anthony Towns when he's kind of having to adapt
to a new environment. You saw that with how he
learned how to play with Rudy Gobert, and now I
think it's sort of adapting back to either being the
full time center for the Knicks or incorporating Mitchell Robinson
into this situation and having those double big lineups be
a bigger part of your core. So I think there's
not as much pressure because I always thought of this
year as a feel out process for this Knicks team
that made so many wholesale changes between the Bridges trade
and trading for Karl Anthony Towns, like a week before
training camp, or it wasn't even a week before training camp,
it felt like a day or two before training camp
doing that and doing the Bridges trade. It felt like
there was so much change that it felt like this
season was just going to be a feel out process.
I never really believed that they were going to be
the championship contenders that they could be this year. I
thought it was going to be a process for them
to get to that level. I don't know what your
your thoughts are on the expectations generally with the Knicks.
But I think that's why I don't have them higher
on this list in terms of the pressure. There is
pressure because it's New York and let's say they play
against Milwaukee and maybe lose a first round series, or
go against Boston and they just get smoked in the
second round, like they lose in like five games. That
to me feels like a disappointment for Knicks fans, knowing
the expectations, knowing how all in they've gone with the
Bridges in cat trade. But yeah, what's your thoughts on
expectations versus pressure for this next team?
Speaker 2: So I think you mentioned something that doesn't get talked
about enough and is probably for the most part, the
fairest way to look at it. That because these change,
like even the og Ananobi trade, Like this was the
first training camp, but you're going to have to go
through with og Ananobi, and there was more than enough time.
You got Mchael Bridges, he got acclimated. There was no
time after Karl Anthony Towns trade, And so I think
it's fair to look at it and say you can't
expect Yes, I know, windows in the NBA are short now.
You can't expect this just to manifest into you know,
a final finals or even making with Cleveland Boston existing
the way they are this year, if you don't make
the Eastern Conference finals, technically speaking, that's not a failure,
I think, And some of the other things that like
probably are glossed over. Does Jalen Brunson sign the extension
that he does if you don't get mcal Bridges, you
had Jalen Brunson on one of the NBA's best contracts,
and now are gonna continue to have him in one
of the NBA best contracts after he made all NBA teams.
Speaker 1: That never happens.
Speaker 2: And then I think you can also point to if
mcal Bridges is then going to sign his extension this summer,
which will be below market if he does, relative to
what he would get, would he be a free agent
even in the current cap landscape. Those are all wins
that stack up. I think two things though again this
might be the right spot. But if you were to
make a case for them to be higher, they played
all of their best trade chips. Those are just those
are off the table, and so you don't that's not
those are not decisions you make and then say like okay,
like we need three years, Like that increases the urgency
by default. And I think the other thing is they've
put pressure on themselves by being borderline hopeless against the
league's best team. Because if if you now look at
the Knicks and say, let's just use the and we're
recording this before they play Cleveland on Wednesday night, so
maybe they're coming off a win against Cleveland, but it's
it's April like, so I don't like, I don't really
know what to read into that. But if you think
that they're that far away from the Cleveland Boston like
forget about okay, see look at your own conference Cleveland
and Boston. If you think they're that far away from them,
they don't just have the ability to go out and
make a move that would then bridge what you view
as a big gap. And so I think it could
go either way. I'm interested to see more. You mentioned
the Robinson Towns minutes. They've actually been really bad defensively,
and like the few like possessions that I've seen with
them together, I think they're still sub one hundred for
this season. It's something you can go to. I ultimately
think and this is again I want to see it
happen in the playoffs. Karl Anthony Towns at center for
them is not going to work unless they're able to
get like another player on the level defensively not maybe
not as good, but does a lot of the same
things that og Annobi can do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I thought Bridges could be that, but
that he just hasn't believe.
Speaker 2: Like but you all, the problem is you also need him.
So it's like you have og McHale and they made
a big deal about this wing stop. I know Josh
Hart guards up, but it's just like it needs to
be better than Josh Hart and that's ultimately what where
I'm at. And you don't have the assets to go
get that player while also keeping these other players that
you need. And I think the Brunson Towns pairing is
also a part of that, because if you remove Brunson
from the equation, maybe that changed a little bit. But
your offense is never going to be as great as
it is. To see ogn andob driving attacking more did
over Bridges. Jalen Brunson is like the guy against dead
stop defenses, Like that's that's where you're gonna go and
that's the player you need. So that's where I'm at now,
And to say that is kind of uneasy. I guess
if you're a Nickson and they can disagree, that's fine.
I'm with you that I think there's real pressure there
because of the asset equity they gave up, because it's
New York, because they're supposed to be contenders, but you're
also they are still in, as you called it, like
the feeling out process. That the problem is is let's
just say they decide like, oh this doesn't work, like
how do you get better while keeping this corn place?
And the answer is you really can't, like they have.
I think as of right now, they're slated to be
like five or eight million beneath the second apron. And
it's okay, great, you're losing pressures that you is expiring money,
like who is the salary you're moving if you're trying
to make something happen. Mitchell Robinson's value, I would say,
is mercurial at best as an expiring contract. So I
just don't like like the best, like who is the
realistically I'm not even this more of a like a
rhetorical question, who's the best player the New York Knicks
could trade for without giving up Towns, oh Jiannoonoby Bridges
or bruntson.
Speaker 1: I have no idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like you're looking at like a Douce McBride.
Plus I don't know whatever amount of picks that they
I don't even know if they haven't.
Speaker 2: Like practically they have that they have that Washington.
Speaker 3: Pick and yeah, yeah, so like that and what does
that get you in today's NBA?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I have no idea what kind of player, probably like
a Dante de Vincenzo level player, which is it's just
it's funny, that's sort of kind of the type of
player that they need in terms of the shooting and
floor spacing aspect. I think that's part of I mean, look,
their offense has been great, but you can always use
more if you're leaning into that identity of like we're
just going to maul you on the offensive end and
just be this juggernaut. But they haven't, and I think
like offensively, they've been so good in moments and they
clearly have an identity there with Brunson and Cat, but
is that going to be enough in a postseason setting
against some of the best teams in the NBA. It's
just that easy of a question, like that's and like
is it enough to so will you to two games?
Three games? You know, three wins?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't necessarily see it at all.
Speaker 2: I don't either. And this comes to the caveat though,
like I don't know, I probably wouldn't feel better about them,
Like this to me has nothing really to do with
the Cat trade, Like I don't know how much better
I feel about the Knicks because first of all, Mitchell
Rominson missed so much time.
Speaker 1: Who was your center?
Speaker 2: Like it was a Chewa and Randall. And then the
other thing is I think people lose sight of this
with the Phoenix Sun stuff like the Bradley Beal trade. Okay,
maybe you shouldn't have made it to no trade clauses
damning their cardinal sin was not negotiating harder in the
Kevin Durant trade totally. If this goes belly up for
the Knicks, the cardinal sin will be that they gave
up all that stuff for a player who will probably
never make an All Star team, or I think you
could say this season he has been their fourth best
player for the entire season. If you want to go third, okay, fine,
But like you have a case that Og has been
more valuable to then I would say he has been
more valuable to the Knicks. And then we know what
Towns was doing really up until recently, and then of
course runs in so that will that'll, that'll be an
interesting thing to look back on. So I'm not even
saying that the Town's trade was a mistake because I
don't believe in him at center with the current setup,
I'm not even necessarily saying that mckeal bridge is a
mistake yet we haven't seen it. But like that's part
of why the pressure is here is you did give
up and you turned over so much of your roster.
It's kind of they're at the point where if they
have a disappointing playoffs, the most likely changes Tom Thibodeaux
probably goes.
Speaker 3: I was actually gonna ask you, do you think there's
pressure on Tibbs this postseason?
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I do think the Knicks, especially when you've
watched like some of their fourth quarter offense or their
moments in crunch time. I think you can look at
this team and with the Grizzlies, I didn't look at
them and say, you put give me the name that
you put in there is gonna do a better job
than Taylor Jenkins has done with this team. I think
you can say with the Knicks at least, even though
their offense is so good, I think you can look
at it and believe that it might be more dynamic
or maybe they play more aggressive defense, like under a
different head coach, to where like, oh, that's how Confee
Town should be used because he's played so much drop
this year. Again, I'm not even saying that's the right answer,
but he feels like if we're looking at anyone like
associated with this team under the most pressure this summer,
this postseason, I think it's probably TIBs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Yeah, that makes sense. And also it's
like maybe that's the change that can actually redefine the
identity of this team a little bit. Like sometimes it
is a coaching change. Look at Cleveland with Kenny Atkinson,
like it was enough for them to propel themselves to
a different thing. If you can bring a whiz onto
this roster, someone who might have some new, fresh ideas,
it might actually change things for this next team.
Speaker 2: It's a great analog sort of like Tom Thibodeau. They
found their JB. Bickerstaff a chapper on them into the
really good days. But like they need a different head coach.
That Taylor Jenkins might be available, rumor has it, who knows, Yeah,
then there you go, uh my fourth team. This is
I think out a sign of respect. But there has
to be pressure here. The Celtics. They're in taxes and payroll.
They're about to cost over half a million dollars next year.
They have new ownership with Bill Chisholm at the helm,
although he owns fifty one percent of this for franchise.
Apparently Wick is going to stay. I just want to
know I X grant this, Like did he get it
in writing that he's gonna be the team governor? Because
we know how that turns out with Mark Cuban if
you don't. But I think, like if you bow out,
but Cleveland's so good that I think if you lose
in the Eastern Conference finals, it's fine, But is it?
And it's just like if we know new ownership likes
to put their stamp on the team, we know how
expensive they are moving forward. Their twenty thirty two draft
pick is already going to be frozen. Do they want
to also do that to their twenty thirty three draft pick,
and that puts so much pressure on them to remain
out of the Apron moving forward. I do ultimately think
that we're probably a year away from like Boston making
a major overhaul. But if you don't go as like to,
I would say, to at least a game seven of
the Eastern Conference Finals, I could see, like Al Horford's
a free agent, Porzingis is entering the final year of
his deal, the Drew Holliday contract. Depending on how he
plays in the playoffs, that doesn't look like it's aging
all that well. It just wouldn't shock me if, Okay,
the defending Jamps didn't make it to a game seven in.
Speaker 1: The Eastern Conference Finals.
Speaker 2: If they don't make it to the Eastern Conference Finals,
that's a different discussion, especially especially in this East.
Speaker 1: I will say, I know, yeah.
Speaker 2: So, like they're a team that just there has to
be pressure there. They're the reigning champs and they're so good.
But like what we've talked about, the second Apron tangentially
a couple times this podcast, that is putting a clock
on these windows. And I think Boston is going to
be a fascinating gauge for how long are teams willing
to keep like the most expensive version of themselves together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've already heard them sort of explain that, Like
it the second Apron isn't the financial issue. It's not
the paying the tax. It's the team building stuff that
actually limits them in terms of like changing their roster
and making it harder. Which it's a fair point, like
you really can't do much once you're a second Apron team,
and especially if you're a repeater. It's just like it's
so limiting to how you can build out this roster,
and so you look at ways to improve after they
win championships, like there's there's no real way to do that.
And Horford's getting older, Porzingis isn't a reliable like in
terms of injuries. You never know what kind of player
you're getting consistently. Drew Holliday is getting older. There's a
lot of questions there with that roster. So I agree
there is a pressure there. I probably would have picked
the Celtics here. I think that's that's like a fine
place to put them, because when you win a championship,
there is inherently a little bit less pressure for you
to win again. But to your point with the second
apron stuff, it does add that heightened level. This is
is this my final team?
Speaker 2: This is the final team.
Speaker 3: I have two teams and maybe you'll take one of them.
So I'm hoping we kind of even out here as
it works out. But I think I'm gonna go with
the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like they have to be yeah, obligatory inclusions,
and honestly, I kind of feel like I've probably could
have had them a little bit higher, just because, look,
it's clear that they have lost a few rotation players
of the last couple of years with KCP Bruce Brown, right,
and that's like really heightened.
Speaker 3: Everybody talks about that aspect of things. But I think
the Jamal Murray contract, them signing him to that contract,
and he's played a lot better in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: Wholeheartedly.
Speaker 3: You look at his numbers, playing very, very good basketball
when he's been able to play. But you look at
that and the Michael Porter junior contract, and you think of, like, Okay,
what is the next step for this team? If they
flame out in the playoffs, you know, you have to
try to continue to build a contender around Nikola Jokic.
How can you do that when these guys are I
would say, probably negative assets on their contracts. Would you
agree that like a Murray and Porter Junior, I don't know,
at best borderline negative.
Speaker 2: I think at best it's like Murray's had like he's
been good for like what three months now or whatever
it's been. But there's always just the level of up
and down. And it's the same thing with Michael Porter Junior,
who I've called he's the streakiest all time shooter and
like yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, So like that adds the level of pressure.
Speaker 3: Of like, Okay, well, what are you going to do
if you lose in the second round to the Timberwolves
or the Lakers or whoever. That inherently adds a little
level of pressure for you. But it's also like you
have Jokic, you always have that safety blanket of like
we can build a team around this guy and retool
and figure things out. We also have that margin of
error of having the best player in the world on
our roster. But I do think there's pressure with that.
I think there's pressure with that aspect, and like you
can you can bring up the conversation of oh, Yokic
would never leave Denver Jokic would There's no interest in.
Speaker 1: That, and sure that probably is true.
Speaker 3: But from a team building perspective, how are you going
to improve this roster if it's clear after this postseason
that they're not good enough to go against Okay see
or maybe the Lakers who are rising in their own way,
that's a question you have to ask.
Speaker 2: So Denver pressure, yeah, and I think, look, I've tried
to view it through the lens of it feels like
they can go another year because they can pretty easily
stay out of the second apron with this group. But
like when you have Christian Brown being extension eligible and
also just you can't under it. This is just about
the cron keys. But I would say pretty much any
ownership regime, how much luxury tax do they actually want
to pay? Like we're looking at it, Yeah, you want
to stay out of the second apron. This is something
I missed on because of how punitive is when it
comes to your transactional flexibility. There are also just ownerships
that don't want to pay this much money. The field
would be contenders, and so I would say they're certainly
under pressure. It's just like if they want to because
the criticism I think will be levied at the front
office ownership more than anyone else. Like they have the
ability to stay together without getting way more expensive than
they were. This like it's the next season that you're
worried about when you have a new deal. For I
think that's when Gordon's extension kicks in, right or but
you're definitely Brown his new deal will be kicking in.
Peyton Watson is going to be extension eligible, So they
have those decisions coming up, and so I think it
puts a ton of pressure in just when you have
It's sort of similar to like if the thunder weren't
even all time great, but they were first in the
West and you have no worse than the second best
place you're in the NBA right now, that likely and
like there's going to be pressure there. You have nicolea
Jokic enter like in his thirties, Like you're you're just
under pressure to win because how much longer is this
going to last? You also have to ask yourself and
it goes for like Aaron Gordon's getting older, and if
you don't think you're gonna pay, like we both know
you and I fast forward to twenty twenty six, twenty
twenty seven, are all four of Jokich, Murray Porter Junior,
and Aaron Gordon.
Speaker 1: On this team? Unlikely? Very very unlikely.
Speaker 2: So like, yeah, there's that's the definite urgency. They're just
a team where because they lack like pitch, they don't
have a second round pick to trade. I just don't
like what would be the move because you mentioned it
with if you were to start dangling Murray and Michael
Porter Junior, I think he would most likely be underwhelmed
in what you're going.
Speaker 1: To get yeah back for them.
Speaker 2: And I still think, look, Murray's just too important to
this basketball team, Like that's why he got the contract
because there's no one else who like who on this roster.
Can you even like envision doing what he does on
the offensive end, I'm.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Jalen Pickett is not doing that. No, yea, he.
Speaker 2: Will screen and you will feel it. But like that's so, yeah,
they're under a ton of pressure. I just I guess
it's I and this is the right spot to have
them because I would have picked them because I would
have felt obligated if you didn't Yeah, it's just like, Okay, well,
what are they gonna do? I feel like they're like
the Knicks. Doesn't it feel like they would fire Michael
Malone before or do you think they would trade MPJ
before doing that?
Speaker 3: It also depends on like what comes about in the market,
like if if what if? Kevin Durant Again, everybody with
Kevin Durant is like the thing you throw at every problem,
you know, the flex tape issue.
Speaker 2: To be fair, like Denver's not the team you normally
see people want to go to, But Kevin Durant's like
the level of basketball sicco. Whereas he was trying to
find like the best running made or basketball fit. I
could see him saying, I want to play with Jokic.
Go figure that out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can see it.
Speaker 3: I mean like, I just think who would even be
available if there was a situation where you could trade
Porter Junior or Murray or both. That's sort of like
I don't know what, Yeah, what do you get.
Speaker 1: In your view? What is this team's biggest need? I
think it's the other thing.
Speaker 3: I I man, there's there's a lot of like defensive
point of attack things, but I don't think you necessarily
need a star to fill that void. You just need
more complimentary players that can do it and also knock
down shots. Yeah, KCP was sort of the idealized version
of it. Christian Brown is doing it to a good level,
but you need just more of those types of players.
So it's how do you find that guy? How do
you find Like is it just through the draft? Is
it just through finding players who can do that more
frequently for you? Because I don't know, I'm not necessarily
sure what the answer to that is, Like is it
just a draft or is it just trading for a
guy who maybe you maybe you turn Michael Porter Junior
into two guys, two guys who aren't as good or
aren't as talented, but maybe fill the need you have
more frequently. But then you bring up the three point
rate issue and is like one of their most important
maybe the most important three point shooter, And so I
don't know, it's a tricky situation.
Speaker 2: I will say he's the name I come back to
because I agree with like their defensive needs and then
like the offense with the three point stuff. If you
trade Jamal Murray to like address any one of those like, well,
then it's Okay, like shock creation, like outside of Jokich,
where are we going with Porter? It's it'll be tough.
But I think if, especially if you're gonna attach the
one first round pick you can trade, I ken envision, Okay,
we at least get someone who approximates seventy five percent
of mpj's off ball gravity, and then we broke them
up into two players, and maybe one of them is
a defensive upgrade over Michael Porter Junior. But you're like,
that's the other conundrum is it's easy to say they
need to do something, and it's like we could point
to maybe players, but they're all gonna be imperfect because
they don't have the type of assets where you're gonna
get the the entire package in one guy. And so
if you do trade a large salary, it feels like
you're gonna be breaking it up into like two players.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I'm like just looking at the standings right now,
trying to think of like play or destinations or things
that might work. I can't really think of any team
that might want to offload guys, Like maybe Portland. That's
a that's sort of an interesting team, Like what if
Portland's like, hey, please, take Jeremy Grant and we will
give you a prospect or another wing matist, Steibel will.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, I'm just kind of riffing here,
but like that's the type of trade that I could
see where it's like you get these defensive minded players.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know.
Speaker 2: What's funny is that Portland has two players that I
think would be perfect for the Nuggets if it was
Danny avviy or Toomanti Kamara, and Denver just doesn't have
the assets to I don't think they don't. They can't
even get the dialogue started. So yeah, I'm with you there.
My final pick, I'm curious as to how you feel
about this one. I'm going to go with the Indiana Pacers.
I am on record many times our subscribers will probably annoyed.
I'm saying it again. I think the Pacers are the
third most dangerous team in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: I think their ability to play fast and physical, and
then they have what I call functional depth to where
depth in the regular season can be overvalued in a
playoff context. I don't think theirs is I look at
that rotation and I go all right, Like, yeah, I
don't know how much you can play Obi top and
in the postseason who's been good this year, But like
that's kind of it. Like if you need to play
Ben Shepherd in the playoffs, you can do it. TJ McConnell. Sure.
But while I think that this is not a team
that will overreact, which is why I have them where
they do. Miles Turner is a free agent and you're
not cheap anymore. This is a team that we know
is not going to pay the tax and so as
of right now, without Miles Turner on the books, they
have one point seven million dollars in tax base next year,
So like, uh, what is gonna what is gonna happen
like with that? And actually that number might be I'm sorry,
I misread that they have about twenty million dollars in
tax base.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's a little bit. There's little bit.
Speaker 2: Miles Turner is just going to get if if if
that's what happens, okay, well then you've made no changes
right and you have no flexibility to get You're gonna
shed payroll elsewhere. I come back to, like, based off
how the playoffs unfold, I know a lot of people
have called the I want to say this very quickly,
I'm sorry the Obi Topindo catches too much shit in
the sense that teams do not squeeze their players to
the extent a lot of people think they should or do.
Look at Patrick Williams in Chicago this past summer. Look
at like Nick who was giving Nick Klasston one hundred
million dollars Like these are like good useful players where
they missed if you were viewing it as trade filler,
that's too many years, Like teams don't want this multi
year filler. He's been good for them though, and the
way that he gets up and down the floor can
shoot it. So but if you're gonna start to cut south,
I think Myles Turner, even though he's waxed and waned
a little bit defensively this year, I think you have
to keep him because I just don't know what this
team does at center without it. Maybe you go towards
more of a rim running guy, but then you still
have to go and afford that guy or find the
right player for that. Are you moving Obi Toppin and
is it you know, if you're salary dumping him, Like
what are you attaching that are you looking at, well,
is it time to move off of the extension eligible Bennedictmathrin?
How do they feel about Jarres Walker? Do they kind
of try and toe the middle ground? It's well TJ.
McConnell doesn't make that much seven percent of the salary
cap for a backup point guard. We could probably just
send him somewhere. This team is gonna this team could
make the conference finals. Again, They're gonna undergo changes just
because we know they're not going to pay the tax.
Speaker 1: So I think the pressure is twofold.
Speaker 2: You need to make the most of this court while
you have it, because they are top ten in offense
and defense for the past fifty games.
Speaker 1: That's a huge sample size.
Speaker 2: And then two it's just what, well, now you kind
of have to figure out, like who actually is indispensable
to your your medium term future.
Speaker 3: Let's call it if I'm Boston or Cleveland. This is
gonna be the most annoying second round team to play
because you just look at them and you're like, man,
they're gonna run all the time.
Speaker 1: They are actually pretty good defensively.
Speaker 3: Now. I think SACOM's a big part of that. At
when they've had Andrew Nemhard, Nie Smith and Siakam on
the floor, They've been like one of the best defenses
in the NBA lineup wise, And I wonder this is
one of those teams that I think actually might have
kicked the kicked the can around for like a Cam
Johnson during the trade deadline, where they were looking at
maybe getting an upgrade at the wing and like, let's
try to give this a shot again going for a
deep run. I could see them making some sort of
trade like that where we don't want to pay Ben Matherin.
We might want to be out of the Ben Matherin situation,
or we might want to consolidate Ben Matherin, Obi Toppin
and Nie Smith and get like a viable starting three
that's like very very good, like a Cam Johnson or
someone else that might be out there. So like I
could see them making that sort of move in the summer.
At the same time, I would be surprised if Miles
Turner gets paid more than what he is getting paid
right now, like nineteen point eight, nineteen point nine. I
think it's probably in that range. So I imagine resign
them if they have that twenty million dollars in like
tax room, right. I think they re sign them, they
get them to a place where it's comfortable, and then
they try to upgrade elsewhere when it comes to the
you know, the kind of three spot for this team,
and hope that that's the way that they upgrade. To
your point about pressure, I don't know if there's postseason
pressure as much as there is pressure of like, hey,
how far can we push one of these Caves and
Celtics teams, Like can we take Cleveland to seven games?
Can we beat Cleveland? Can we instead of getting swept
by the Celtics? Can we take two games off them?
Can we take three games off them? Can we really
push them this time? I think that's the type of.
Speaker 1: Pressure that they have. I'm interested.
Speaker 3: I'm intrigued that you said Indiana because I would have
said Cleveland just because of the fact that they've had
a really great season and yes, they're young, but I
think there's inherently, sort of like what you mentioned with Houston,
there's inherently some pressure individually for some of those players
to prove it in these moments. Darius Garland, you know,
obviously Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, like those guys have
had inconsistent moments in the playoffs, and you're at a
position where it's like, Okay, you've got to see if
these guys can actually do it when the lights are brightest.
No pun intended to the Jared Allen thing, but like
that's why there's a level of pressure for them for
me over Indiana. But I can now see it from
the Pacers side of things too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the reason I didn't pick them is I think
that their pressure feels more isolated to Evan Mobley, where
sort of, hey, what you've shown that you can do
this season, right, But he's actually he's been first team
All NBA for me, I think for our past two
award shows. It was at least the most recent one.
But like, if he can't do it in the play
if he struggles in the same way he did like previously,
it becomes a different discussion. But I look at them
and it's Okay, they're expensive, but they're not in danger
of going to the second apron next year necessarily. So
I just feel like, look at all their best guys
are under contract, two of them, just three of them,
excuse me, just extended. It feels like we're another year
away from that, but look, when you're this good, we're
better than the Boston Celtics this year, there's of course, like.
Speaker 1: Actually pressure there. Yeah, no, I agree, and like that's
why it's weird to pick.
Speaker 3: I think Indiana is more intriguing heading into the summer
just because of some of the cap stuff that you mentioned.
Speaker 1: But I could see them making an upgrade.
Speaker 3: I could really see them saying like, hey, we have
some pick flexibility. I believe other than the Indiana first
that got traded to Toronto, they basically have all of
their picks moving forward, and now they have sort of
these assets that they can play with in a Ben
Matheren in a top and maybe Nie Smith, you know,
some of the other guys like Ben Shephard and whatnot.
Like that's sort of an intriguing package. If there is
a player that gets.
Speaker 1: Kind of maybe that's the Michael Porter junior team. I
just thought of that, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I was thinking about this because Cam Johnson was
brought up a lot for them to trade them on.
Speaker 1: Like, are either of those guys what this team needs? Yeah?
Maybe not, maybe not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like they need to be in sort
of like Herb Jones territory if he was, right, Like
that's the type where like Jade McDaniels if he became
available in Minnesota, and like I'm trying to go through
just like wing defenders who I think could like amble
their way onto the market, and so.
Speaker 1: Like the stopper right right, and so just because Andrew M.
Speaker 2: Harkton do it, he's just not big enough. And then
like Shephard again, like even if he could do it,
is he big enough?
Speaker 1: Aaron E.
Speaker 2: Smith?
Speaker 1: Is he big enough? They're all like six' five and, under, Right.
Speaker 2: And it's just like that's even if Bennec matther was big,
Enough like that's just not his. Game. Mhm SO i,
mean like unless you, THINK i don't think he's had
a lot better highs this. Year LIKE i don't Think
Garris walker is going.
Speaker 1: To be that player.
Speaker 3: Either he's been, fun but he feels more of like
a tweener than a guy who's going to be like
stopping guys at the point of attack. CONSISTENTLY i don't
think he's more like a help side rim protector who's
gonna be crazy active on the.
Speaker 2: Boards but, yeah do you think there'd be merit to
wrap up on? Them of if like maybe they just
don't want to Pay turner and it would be in
theory cheaper to get more of like a like a
rim protecting rim.
Speaker 1: Runner is their merit to?
Speaker 2: That thinking of, like, well let's also like have a
different type of you, know like sort of what a
Healthy Isaiah jackson could be for this, team but maybe
a better version would you rather? See do you think
it's more important to like preserve like the style of
play That Miles turner can give, you or might it
be worth it to change up kind of the look
of your front court and go with like AND i
know we've seen LIKE i, Mean Thomas, bryant's Like Tony,
Bradley like you haven't really gotten great insight into, what let's,
say a better version Of Isaiah jackson would look like
as your primary.
Speaker 1: FIVE i don't know.
Speaker 2: Who is out there of that realm that's that's Chamber Miles,
Turner like Maybe Brook lopez won't be as expensive As Miles.
Speaker 1: Turner that'd be, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like what's what's the player out there that could kind
of be that that change up? Center and ALSO i would,
say like When pascal got traded, THERE i think one
of the things that he mentioned, Was, HEY i love
the fact That i'm playing with a big man Like
Miles turner who can spread the. Floor it makes, it you,
know so they that feels like it's part of the
package here of the type of team they want to
be and of the type of team the players want
them to.
Speaker 1: Be BUT i don't, know like who's out? There Would
Nick claxton be.
Speaker 2: A?
Speaker 1: GUY i don't, KNOW.
Speaker 2: I mean man you talk, about but that like he
might be their best wing defender at that, point, Right, LIKE.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: Know it all comes down to like the type of
big that gets becomes available in the summer and like
a HEALTHY rw, Three but that's that doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: Sure basically, yeah eight and anybody want to get it
on that they want them at one? Point, yeah yeah.
S that was a lot of.
Speaker 2: Fun thank you so much for going through that exercise with.
ME i think it was instructive ahead of the. Playoffs
are you just able to tell our subscribers where they
can find you and all the fantastic work that you.
Speaker 3: Do, yeah you will be more interested in My Raptors
republic videos next season once the team is actually good
and potentially.
Speaker 1: Competitive and that's the number one defense you're just. Derailing you're,
Right you're.
Speaker 3: Right, hey they're going to be a pretty good defense
next season. TWO i will bet on, it but, yeah you.
Can you can check out the podcast at The ATHLETIC Nba.
Speaker 1: Daily we hosted. Daily that's part of the podcast, name
as you can. See BUT i appreciate you having me
on then as, always thanks so.
Speaker 2: Much you can find the links to all this and
stuff in our podcast at. Description he's a fantastic follow
on the, socials like posting videos or just thoughts of
the games he's, watching so highly recommend at just S
Darren andi is on the. Screen it'll also be in
the podcast YouTube. Description thank you so. Much service was
fun as, always and rest a. SHORT i will be
pestering you again in the.
Speaker 1: Future gre