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Speaker 1: What is up?

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Speaker 2: Fellowsikos. I have the distinct pleasure of being joined for

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this episode by s Barangini, who covers the NBA at

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Large for The Athletic. He's one of the co hosts

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of the NBA Daily over there. He also does stuff

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for Raptors Republic. He's done stuff for Bleacher Report. He

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done a lot of stuff, does it well. One of

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my favorite people to talk to about hoops. So I

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was able to grab him for our annual campfire s.

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Speaker 1: How the heck are you doing? What up? Dude? I

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don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'm like reeling over you know, last nights. I don't

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know when this drops. Last night's games against you know,

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Steph Curry going crazy dropping fifty two yo kids, dropping

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sixty one and a loss. The Westbrook experience, it was

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just it was such a perfect, perfect night at basketball.

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It makes you excited for the playoffs in a couple

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of weeks.

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Speaker 2: The Russell Westbrook experience colliding with the Minnesota Timberwolves experience

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is just that is you know, in like, that's just

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it's terrifying. It was My adrenaline was going, I have

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no rooting interest in this, and I'm like, my heart

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was pumping it was. That was an insane game. Steph

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of course was insane, but like that entire sequence to close,

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not the Timberwolves. One of those teams or both those

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teams might come up. In this podcast, we're doing a

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twenty twenty five NBA Playoffs pressure Index. Basically, S and

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I are going to take turns just drafting teams that

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we think have the most at stake entering the postseason.

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Before we get started, I thought this was an interesting

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first full circle. The first time you came on the pod,

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we talked about teams that might be stuck in the middle.

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Last year we did which rebuilding teams have the brightest future,

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and now we've leaned into the playoff team. So I

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feel like we've just over the past three years now

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during our annual confat we have covered pretty much every

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level that there is of like the competitive landscape.

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Speaker 3: In year I don't even remember what we decided on

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as the most best rebuild.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that by any chance? I think it was.

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I think it was the Rockets. Yeah, okay, so we

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did well. We didn't do that bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's actually fun fact and my Mike was

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not plugged in for that episode that was on YouTube,

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our most watched full length episode of So there you go.

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You're a celebrity. The people want, the people want s.

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We bring in s. You are the guests, though, So

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I don't know if you want to get any general

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criteria off your chest with how you approach this, otherwise

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the floor will be yours for the first overall pick.

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Speaker 3: So I think pressure for me generally, and shout out

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to my guy Chris Bouchet shout out slim Gyms.

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Speaker 1: Not sponsored, but they he sent.

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Speaker 3: I actually used to have a little slim Gym thing

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here on this desk because he sent me a great

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shout out to slim Gym.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever had a slim Jym.

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Speaker 2: Have you had a slim when I was younger, I

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don't I feel that like.

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Speaker 1: A hot rod hovering. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

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Speaker 3: So pressure for me in this situation was it's like

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a combination of age, right, Older rosters technically tend to

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have more pressure and just expectations. So those are the

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two things that kind of cross intersect for me, and

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I think the number one team should I go first?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, my number one team in terms of pressure

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is probably gonna be the Golden State Warriors.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I was not expecting that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 3: So, Look, they have been awesome since Jimmy Butler has

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been there. It was like sixteen and four in their

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first twenty games. They've become a top ten defense, a

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top ten offense.

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Speaker 1: Again.

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Speaker 3: Oka see is the massive, massive team here, and I

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think we can talk about them eventually in terms of

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pressure and their expectations and everything like that.

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Speaker 1: There is a level of pressure there.

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Speaker 3: But I think when you look at the age of

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that roster, with Jimmy being I don't know, thirty six,

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thirty seven years old, dre and Steph being around that

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age as well, they don't have that many opportunities to compete.

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And you don't know if this year, this version of

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this team, this version of the players that they have

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in Jimmy and Steph and Draymond, are going to be

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the same version that you get next season. So you

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have to maximize this window as much as possible. Sure,

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you can convince yourself that, hey, you have a a

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couple of years of a competitive window, but to me,

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this is sort of the opportunity to do so. And

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maybe they've caught lightning in a bottle and kind of

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catch a team. Can they catch the thunder? I don't

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know that remains to be seen, but you sort of

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want a proof of concept here, and if they can

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make a deep playoff run, I think it incentivizes them

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to just continue on this path and like, you know,

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keep rolling with this core.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's why I said the Warriors, I.

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Speaker 3: Think just age is one of those things, and there's

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no real path for them to improve the roster outside

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of this unless they want to let Jonathan Kaminga walk

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and figure out other ways to like sign you know,

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different players and fill out their rotation that way.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's my spiel on the words.

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Speaker 2: That might be the single biggest pressure point for them too.

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As you mentioned Jonathan Kaminga is if it wasn't necessarily

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clean before Jimmy Butler, now you add Jimmy Butler to

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the equation, and the stuff that Jonathan Kaminga does best

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is I don't want to say it's less valuable, but

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there's gonna be less of Like you need him to

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be more of just a cutter, a shooter, a defender,

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a rebounder rather than someone who's featured on offense, And

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I really don't think that's one of mine and Grant's

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like biggest disagreements on this podcast is the ceiling of

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Jonathan Kaminga. I just haven't seen it for long enough

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that he can play such role. And what's interesting is

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I guess I didn't even consider them because I looked

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at it as like, well, what would their reaction be?

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Kind of how I approached this, like what happens if

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they lose?

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Speaker 1: Right? Like what would they do?

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Speaker 2: But now that you mentioned the Kamena part of it,

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it's like, yeah, what would they do? Like do you

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look at well they revisit you know, we talked about

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hypothetically like do you dangle Jimmy Butler to get Kevin

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Durant right moving Jonathan Kaminga in.

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Speaker 1: A sign in trade?

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Speaker 2: Or is a team like the Nets gonna actually have

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interest to give him an offer sheet He's probably like

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the Warriors. Jonathan Kamena dynamic is just so this pre

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dates Jimmy Butler is just so bizarre.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's because Joe lacub is a big, big believer

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in Jonathan Kaminga and so anytime there's been an opportunity

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to potentially trade him, or if there's a moment in

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time where they have found some sort of agreement or

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I guess a moment where they can sign him or

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extend him. There has been at least from one side

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or the other, a sort of disagreement on that number

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and that term. And Joe Lacob is a big part

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of that because he's a huge, huge, Jonathan kaminga believer.

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How does that change this summer? That's part of it,

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because he also has, to your point, not fit with

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Jimmy Butler, and.

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Speaker 1: Those numbers are bad.

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Speaker 3: It's very bad, and it's duplicative a little bit in

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terms of the areas and spaces that they want to

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operate in.

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Speaker 1: I think that's one question.

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Speaker 3: I don't mean to make it be like Jonathan kaminga

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is the biggest pressure point of this postseason. I just

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think the Warriors in general have an immense amount of

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pressure to prove that this blueprint works for them in

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the postseason. I think they can be successful in doing that,

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but there is still that pressure to kind of get

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it done and make some noise in the playoffs to

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make this kind of experiment worthwhile.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you are right, just because there's always urgency because

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you're Steph Curry. But when you trade for Jimmy Butler,

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like two guys in their mid thirties, Draymond makes three,

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you're right, like even if you kind of tinker with

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this roster, like what are you short of doing something nuclear?

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Speaker 1: Like what are you actually going to be able to do?

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I think when's the last time, I mean

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since twenty twenty two, which really wasn't that long ago, Like,

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when's the last time we sat here and said, like

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I wouldn't pick the Warriors to beat OKAC, and I

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wouldn't necessarily pick them against every other team, but like,

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I think they have a real chance against every single

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other team right now, And so you could argue that

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type of title equity, like that's not a short even

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if Steph was thirty one like that.

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Speaker 3: Also, it's like you need to prove that you can

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be in those conversations. If they get to a series

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against OKAC and it's a sweep, you lose in five games,

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I think that's cause for concern.

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Speaker 1: I think that's pressure.

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Speaker 3: But if it's a competitive six or seven games, you

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feel like you threw your best punch, you just fell short,

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and you're like, all right, we can regroup. If we

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have a full season of these guys next year, we

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can you know, kind of give them a run for

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their money.

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Speaker 1: It's also about.

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Speaker 3: The way they lose would be part of the pressure

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here compared to maybe some of these other teams of

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how far they actually get.

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Speaker 2: I'll move on to my first pick, which Chris was

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also Grant wanted me to let everybody know that it

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was also his first pick.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the Milwaukee Bucks.

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Speaker 2: In theory, the Damon Goglillard deep vein thrombosis, the blood

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clot it does give them cover because I would personally

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be surprised if he plays again this year. And you

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could look at it and say, all right, we've had

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two postseasons with the Dame and Giannis Era and they've

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played exactly zero postseason minutes together. Then at that point,

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so there's sort of the inkling of well, this just

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needs more time. When Damian Lillard is as old as

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he is, like, you don't get to just say that.

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And you also did already make kind of a big decision.

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It's not even kind of a huge decision by pivoting

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off of Chris Middleton and bringing in Kyle Kuzma, and

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now your brook Lopez entering free agency. You can trade

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one up to one first round pick this summer. You

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have some wiggle room under the luxury tax, but that's

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immediately gone if you resign brook Lopez. So if you

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bow out in the playoffs, it'll be expected, I think,

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given like the current setup in Milwaukee. But like, what

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are you supposed to do for do you just run

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it back and say, like naa, like we need to

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give this group more time. I don't know, like brook

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Lopez getting older, Gianna's getting older, Dame getting older. I

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don't know that you could sit there and do that

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and something that's it's not flying under the radar, but

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we're just not thinking about it yet. Like you probably

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can't keep Gary Trent Junior oratory in prints at this point.

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Speaker 1: And what if Kevin Porter junior for them.

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Speaker 2: Basketball wise, has done enough to opt out, you're not

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going to really probably be able to keep him either,

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So they become reliant And that's just how it works

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when you're a team that's this expensive. I don't know

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what they're like, what opportunities will be available for them

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to improve this roster or even like keep the supporting

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cast at the same level that it is right now,

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and so it's weird because they're under pressure. Like if

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you get it probably gets harder to bring back brook

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Lopez and run it back if you get bounced in

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the first round, even if you don't have Dame.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they get

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bounced in the first round. I think more than anything,

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this is a pressure meter on Giannis and kind of

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his expectations for this team, also his threshold for being

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able to lose another first round or maybe second round

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series and and kind of flame out. In that regard,

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there's there's a level of they tried to get younger.

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I don't necessarily understand the Chris Middleton trade as much

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as I think there's there's a purpose to it in

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terms of getting younger. But they tried to get younger.

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That was their incentive. Even the Kevin Porter junior acquisition.

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That's another aspect of them trying to get a little

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bit younger to inject some sort of youth into this team.

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I think that's one of their biggest issues is they

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don't have and like A J. Johnson, by the way,

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I know we weren't probably finding talking about the Wizards,

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but he's he's doing some cool stuff. And Washington did

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not get the opport to play in Milwaukee whatsoever. And

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I don't know if it's a developmental thing. I don't

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know if it's a process of finding prospects and giving

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them the opportunity. But it just doesn't seem like they've

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been able to replenish that asset pool in any meaningful way,

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and that's put them in this very precarious position. I

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had them and it second as sort of my pressure

254
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meter thing, just because of the situation. The reason I

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had them second was the Dame thing. It's like, does

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that provide them the cushion to say, hey, we can

257
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run it back next year, try again, and we'll just

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see how it goes.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Also, Bobby Porters like him missing twenty. He'll be back

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by the time they play the playoffs. But just generally

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that aspect of it is sort of like, Okay, maybe

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maybe discount the way that they are thinking of the

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pressure of this Bucks team in the postseason.

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Speaker 1: Should I should I give you my second pick?

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Speaker 2: Well, just to respond to where you were saying, I

267
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just sort of wonder Like you talk about them replenishing

268
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their pool, it's like if they lose Gary krant Junior, yeah,

269
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they're we're like specifically like, well you better hope, Like

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Ryan Rollins has played well for them, They've gotten good

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minutes from aj Green, Like are those guys just ready?

272
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And like if Kyle Kuzma is going to continue to

273
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shoot the way that he has for I guess years

274
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at this point, Like you can't just say, oh, losing

275
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Torrian Prints doesn't matter. So there's and honestly, I'm open

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to the idea of like, okay, let's if you could

277
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keep it all together. I'd be open to that idea.

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I would still love to see this team be under

279
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like rather than Adriene Griffin, rather than Doc Rivers. I

280
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really wanted to see Giannison Dame with more of an

281
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offensive innovator in there. So I don't even know if

282
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I'm saying fire Doc Rivers. It would be like, can

283
00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:39,639
we get like more of an innovated offensive architect. I

284
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think Terry Stotts was at least to be supposed to

285
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be part of that at one point for them, So

286
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maybe there's something there. I will say, because this is

287
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invariably gonna come up when you're talking about the pressure index.

288
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If I am the bucks, I am not moving Giannison

289
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tentto Kumbo unless he asks for it.

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Speaker 1: Because you're not.

291
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Speaker 2: Your picks are kind of so spread out like a

292
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bunch of there's no Yeah, you can get a lot

293
00:13:00,639 --> 00:13:04,399
of stuff for Yannis, but you can't reacquire like the

294
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rights to all of your draft picks, and so that

295
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minimizes the It's not like Phoenix can look at one

296
00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:11,840
team right now and say, oh, they have control over

297
00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:14,399
three of our draft picks, Like Milwaukee doesn't get the

298
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,919
point there and say that. And so I think I

299
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,279
honestly I would bet on Yannis, Like I would be

300
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fairly surprised if it reached sort of a breaking point

301
00:13:21,919 --> 00:13:24,919
this summer of all summers. That feels like we're maybe

302
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,679
a year ahead of it, but that still is like

303
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,159
part of their pressure index.

304
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,039
Speaker 1: For sure. He's averaging thirty two, twelve and six. So

305
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:34,519
is that good? It's pretty damn good.

306
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I think it's crazy to think about the

307
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,279
the I don't know, four or five years that Yiannis

308
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,320
has had and the way that it's ended every single year,

309
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And so I could see the pressure of that actually

310
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changing and snowballing to the point where it is him

311
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,399
wanting to be out this summer. Like I don't know

312
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,080
it like it does feel like we're trending towards that direction,

313
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and the way this stuff snows makes me feel like

314
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,440
we're just this is the type of NBA we're in.

315
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:06,360
Like Daron Fox last year, it was like okay, like

316
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,879
maybe we could see a world you know, contract extension maybe,

317
00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:12,039
and then it just happened and it was like, okay. Now,

318
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,399
even with the Ja Morant situation, you just hear murmurs,

319
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,519
whispers here and there, people talking from the outside like, oh,

320
00:14:18,519 --> 00:14:21,360
could he be available? Guarantee you in the next year

321
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,279
somehow we're gonna be start start talking about Ja Morant

322
00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:26,399
trades and that's.

323
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Speaker 1: That might even be.

324
00:14:27,519 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 2: That might even be a long like timeline, like it

325
00:14:29,799 --> 00:14:32,399
might happened within like a couple months, right, Yeah.

326
00:14:32,159 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 1: So it just I don't know.

327
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Speaker 3: The Yannis thing has been for what it's worth, It's

328
00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:39,200
been brought up so many times over the last four

329
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,519
or five years, right like, oh, will he ask out

330
00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:44,120
or is this the opportunity? You know, there were teams

331
00:14:44,159 --> 00:14:46,120
gearing up the Raptors were a team that was gearing

332
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,919
up in twenty twenty to go Afterman free agency before

333
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,559
he inked that contract extension. Like, there's been moments in

334
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,000
time where people thought Yiannis would be available and he

335
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,799
hasn't been. So maybe he's the exception to the rule here.

336
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But I just I don't know. Maybe this is the

337
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,240
final straw that broke the camel's back.

338
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Speaker 2: They've you know what it is, They've always been able

339
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,240
to do something when it felt like they were reaching

340
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an inflection point. And now you look at them and say, what,

341
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,240
how could you move Dame and get better? I don't

342
00:15:14,279 --> 00:15:16,240
know that you can necessarily do that, So that will

343
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,320
be the And maybe and by the way, what happens

344
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,679
if they just go on this wildly deep playoff run

345
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,120
without Damian Lillard? Yeah, that would be like another weird

346
00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:25,840
be like, oh, we're just gonna integrate him and we'll

347
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,919
be fine. I think it's probably the default stance, but

348
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that would just be weird for everybody. Right if the

349
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Bucks just end up in the conference finals and Damian

350
00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:33,399
Lillard' is not a part of it.

351
00:15:33,559 --> 00:15:37,399
Speaker 3: Look right now they're facing the Knicks. Do you even

352
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,440
without Dame do they have a chance? Giannis goes absolutely crazy?

353
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Speaker 1: Is that pick them to win that series?

354
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Speaker 2: But I have on record many times as saying, like,

355
00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:51,440
there's a chance that the Knicks are just like really

356
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,399
the fourth, fifth or sixth best team in the East

357
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,879
when it comes to a playoff setting. Yeah, so it

358
00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:56,919
wouldn't surprise me.

359
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Speaker 1: And that was a series.

360
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Speaker 2: Like I mean, imagine thing they go in the conference finals,

361
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,639
they put up a fight against like Cleveland or something

362
00:16:02,679 --> 00:16:04,440
like that would just be that'd be bizarre, or it

363
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,320
would be whoever they have to face, how the bracket

364
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:06,840
shakes out.

365
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it would be.

366
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 3: And like, when you have a player like Giannis, this

367
00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:13,960
is sort of similar to the Nugget situation, although I

368
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,320
think the Nuggets are much more well equipped to actually

369
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,399
make a run. When you have a player like Giannis,

370
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,080
you always have a chance in a series. And so

371
00:16:21,799 --> 00:16:23,960
like you put them up against the Knicks, who I

372
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,519
think are a better team than the Bucks this season,

373
00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:29,360
for sure, they have a chance. You put them up

374
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,960
against Boston, It's gonna be tough for them to guard Giannis.

375
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,919
It's just can aj Green shoot forty five percent from

376
00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:40,039
three for sixteen games in a row and can Gary

377
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:41,559
Trent Junior do the same thing?

378
00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 1: And I don't know, can Dame come back in the

379
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:44,279
second round? I don't know.

380
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,639
Speaker 3: It's just there's so many what ifs to the Bucks

381
00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:49,159
scenario of how they do it.

382
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, they just since winning the title, they've just

383
00:16:52,759 --> 00:16:55,279
been It was kind of like, remember, Okac makes the

384
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,279
finals and then they go through all those just injuries,

385
00:16:58,559 --> 00:17:00,639
Grant Westbrook obaka, it.

386
00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 1: Was back and forth, right yeah, Grant one years?

387
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I think, wasn't it was Middleton after

388
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,599
the Bucks one. Then it's been y honest the past

389
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,200
two years, and then now it's Dame. It's just it sucks.

390
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,200
Speaker 3: Day missed the year too, right, or they missed the

391
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,359
postseason in one of them. I can't remember exactly what

392
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:15,640
it was.

393
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,279
Speaker 2: We Dame's first postseason was last year? Right, Yeah, it

394
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,759
wasn't the one who was Yeah, who do you have

395
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:24,599
as your second?

396
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:25,599
Speaker 1: Okay?

397
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,920
Speaker 3: This is this is actually very interesting too. Wow, this

398
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,400
is an awesome Chris Bouchet picture.

399
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,480
Speaker 2: It's funny because no one's ever going to see this

400
00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:34,440
aside from you. And so that was that was I

401
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,000
was was hoping you would at least get.

402
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,079
Speaker 1: A kick out that's awesome, man, this is tough.

403
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 3: I was actually gonna go with Milwaukee, so this is

404
00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:45,519
I'm kind of open now to a range of different,

405
00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:49,640
you know, kind of options here. I kind of feel

406
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,039
like I want to go Memphis just because we're in

407
00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:54,720
the car. Yeah, let's talk about the Memphis Grizzlies, who

408
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:55,319
are sliding.

409
00:17:55,759 --> 00:17:56,839
Speaker 1: I've lost four in a row.

410
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,680
Speaker 3: They have this new head coach and Twamas Salo, who

411
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,640
they clearly are like prepping to be the guy for

412
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,920
them moving forward. Losing against Golden State in the fashion

413
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,960
that they lost where it was like the first half

414
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:11,960
they looked dejected.

415
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:12,759
Speaker 1: They didn't.

416
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:15,039
Speaker 3: They just looked like they were late to every rebound,

417
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,400
late to every rotation, just felt like they were getting

418
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,640
out hustled and Steph was going crazy on them. And

419
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,400
then to kind of claw back into that game and

420
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,839
still eventually lose to Steph. It feels like they're just

421
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,160
like short of being a very very good team in

422
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,920
the West, even at full strength. And so I know

423
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,000
they're missing Brandon Clark. He's a big part of their

424
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,359
kind of line up fluidity and everything like that. But

425
00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:41,680
you should be able to kind of keep things afloat

426
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:44,160
here and they haven't been able to do that at all.

427
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,279
Their defense has fallen off a cliff. I think if

428
00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:48,880
you asked me two months ago, I would have had

429
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,359
Jaron Jackson Junior as defensive player of the Year. But

430
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,960
he has been part of the problem here with the

431
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,519
fouling and everything that he's done on that side, with

432
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,720
with just getting out of games and not being able

433
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:01,480
to play and finish games because the foul trouble. And

434
00:19:01,759 --> 00:19:06,319
ultimately this team of this mishmash roster of guys who

435
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,559
like are either very very good offensively or very very

436
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:15,359
good defensively, and there's no in between. Missing some of

437
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,519
that lineup fluidity of a Brandon Clark could be the

438
00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:21,319
make or break of this team being able to go far.

439
00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:24,680
Roundabout way of saying, this team has immense amounts of

440
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,359
pressure because of the jamarant situation, because of the fact

441
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,960
that there's so much I guess uncertainty heading into the postseason,

442
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,119
and it feels like they're falling. And so you know,

443
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,000
two months ago, you were looking at this team as

444
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,640
a second or a third seed, having home court advantage

445
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,519
in a postseason series, maybe potentially playing a team that

446
00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:44,759
they could beat, and now they might be in a

447
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,759
situation where they play okay, see or they play I

448
00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:50,920
don't know, the Lakers or the Nuggets, and it's like, damn,

449
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,279
you are a first round out and that's tough. That's

450
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,240
very tough coming off the season that they had where

451
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,119
they won I don't know, twenty five games or whatever

452
00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:58,440
it was.

453
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for so long year they were the only

454
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,680
team that was in the top five of both offense

455
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,599
and defense. And it ends up just there. I'd be

456
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,519
with you, they were my second team. And I actually

457
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:10,519
think the John Morant they can't really start before that

458
00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:13,440
because you can't make trades. The John Morant trade rumor

459
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,240
Milam convinced is going to start this season, and I

460
00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:17,039
don't even know if it's gonna because he doesn't want

461
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:19,079
to be there as much as they I really think

462
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,359
need to look at it and say, well, what they

463
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,200
want to do offensively? Like is he the guy to

464
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:25,720
get them there? I think John Morant is fantastic. I

465
00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:28,880
don't think they've ever surrounded him with enough shooting overall,

466
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,599
but like the results in the half court have been

467
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,200
for the most part, just I mean, like in the

468
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,240
regular season. Yeah, there was a point where the stuff

469
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:37,960
that they were running. I think Nate Larroche was the

470
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,920
guy who was like responsible, they said, even though it

471
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,720
felt like Islo was brought in first, Wasn't it Like

472
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,200
that reporting from ESPN was bizarre And it sort of

473
00:20:45,279 --> 00:20:47,920
leads me into the Grizzlies front office here, like they

474
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,720
deserve to be under a microscope totally way they handle

475
00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:53,960
the coaching stuff, and they've just they've made they made

476
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,559
bad moves with Smart and then you have to give

477
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,240
up a pick to get off him. But then the

478
00:20:57,279 --> 00:20:59,079
other thing is just like they've also kind of done

479
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,599
nothing to like how long have we been waiting for

480
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,720
them to get like a properly sized wing with some

481
00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:06,640
boss Soliday?

482
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:08,599
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, it was.

483
00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:10,599
Speaker 2: It could have been like since Rudy Gay at this point.

484
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,240
It feels like I thought it was gonna be Nia

485
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,400
Williams at one point. I'm not gonna lie, so that's

486
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,920
my fault there. But like, if they even want to

487
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,279
make a bigger move, because I'm convinced their postseason is

488
00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:21,160
just gonna end or whoever they face in the first round,

489
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,279
I'm picking the other team like flat out, and if

490
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:26,839
they end early, okay, Like they still have a bunch

491
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,440
of assets, but like they don't have a ton of

492
00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:34,200
salary matching tools unless you're going into the Jaron Jackson Junior,

493
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,319
John Moran or Desmond Baine. I think Jared Jackson Junior

494
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,440
is probably the most important player on this team moving forward.

495
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,079
So are you gonna move Bain? Can you move John

496
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,240
Moran and get better? Like, yes, you have Brandon Clark's salary.

497
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,759
You'll have John Contra on the book, so you could

498
00:21:47,799 --> 00:21:50,759
still make like i'll call the medium sized moves.

499
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,559
Speaker 1: Isn't that enough for this team?

500
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 2: It can even get it done because they weren't. They

501
00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:58,000
were like quibbling over picks with Dori and Phinney Smith,

502
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,440
who probably wasn't even perfect for what they needed, but

503
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,640
would have made them better, I would argue, at least

504
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,519
for the postseason. Uh, they're under a ton of pressure

505
00:22:05,599 --> 00:22:07,880
because it's just like there's a lot of talent here.

506
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,559
They're deep, But I just don't know if I mean,

507
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:11,960
now we have to ask whether they could be good

508
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,720
enough defensively, but I think that it could be good

509
00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:15,519
enough on offense.

510
00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 3: This is interesting because it just as you were talking,

511
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,759
I kind of just thought about it. But like them

512
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,599
being so chaotic heading into the postseason and they're being

513
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,680
so much uncertainty with jaw, the coaching staff, the defense,

514
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:33,400
all of that. Would that actually be less pressure now

515
00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:36,599
because they know there's so much uncertainty and it's like,

516
00:22:36,599 --> 00:22:39,880
all right, the pressure is off because we are expecting

517
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:42,880
to flame out here and then we have to regroup

518
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,880
in the summer and figure things out. Is that is

519
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,680
there sort of an inverse effect here between pressure and

520
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,200
expectations because of what's happened over the last week.

521
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 2: I wonder if that would correlate to Okay, the front

522
00:22:54,759 --> 00:22:57,039
office is maybe like not on the hot seat because

523
00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:58,960
even if you bet, like if you have to fix

524
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,359
things over the offseason, if that's still entail making like

525
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,359
pretty significant moves or to the roster, yeah so, and

526
00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:08,920
but that it does get that you just made me

527
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,200
because something else. What happens if they just outperform expectations

528
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:12,839
in the playoffs?

529
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: Is it right?

530
00:23:13,519 --> 00:23:15,799
Speaker 2: Well, let's just move forward with isl here and we're

531
00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:19,880
gonna I guess like you trying, Yeah on the table

532
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,559
where Memphis kind of just runs it back.

533
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could. Look, they have to pay Jaron Jackson Jr.

534
00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:29,480
That's again priority number one. And there also is the

535
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,680
Santi Aldama question, who I think has been very good

536
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,079
for them. Uh, and so they have to either pay

537
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,279
him or not pay him. And if they didn't pay him,

538
00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:38,319
the why didn't they move him? That's a different question.

539
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,920
But like that's another thing that they have to hurdle.

540
00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:43,720
They are not going to pay the tax. They're not

541
00:23:43,759 --> 00:23:45,799
going to go over the tax for this team. It

542
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,960
just doesn't seem like it's something the Grizzlies mo o

543
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,440
is has ever been really, so that's part of the equation.

544
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:56,480
And yeah, maybe it is trading one of their core

545
00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:01,200
three guys to upgrade roster in some sort of way,

546
00:24:01,319 --> 00:24:04,119
But that always feels like the last string effort, right

547
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,640
like that, that feels like the last thing you do

548
00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:10,720
before you end up making these massive, massive changes to

549
00:24:10,759 --> 00:24:13,680
the team, like the Bucks. We just talked about them

550
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,480
with the whole Giannis and Dame thing. Like trading Chris

551
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,400
Middleton was a big, big deal this team. He was

552
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,200
like a massive part, a pillar of the organization for years,

553
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,599
and trading him just felt like one domino that was

554
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,160
going to proceed, you know, the little tiny domino to

555
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,359
the big domino of something happening. You know, the meme

556
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,160
I know, you know the name. Yeah, that's that's what

557
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,960
it kind of feels like for the Bucks. Maybe that's

558
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,839
what this firing is for the Grizzlies of Taylor Jenkins.

559
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,440
You kind of knock off that domino of like you're

560
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:46,559
just firing this coach who's been part of this group

561
00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:50,119
for I don't know five seasons now. That probably leads

562
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,359
to making wholesale changes to this entire roster. But yeah,

563
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,359
that's why there's pressure. I agree with you, that makes sense.

564
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I get Look, they could still just

565
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,039
do stuff on the margins and maybe better too, Like

566
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:03,000
there's if you attach first round pick to some salary.

567
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,079
I just don't know, like they would be a fun

568
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,039
KD team, but you are. You're not getting to that

569
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,680
money without giving up a band.

570
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 3: Fifty's gonna be tough to get to without trading, right.

571
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, they were my number two team, which means

572
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,720
I will pivot to my number three team here, but

573
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:21,480
it's our number four team overall, my second pick. I

574
00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:23,759
was still debating with this. I'm gonna go with the

575
00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:28,480
Houston Rockets, and I interesting there they are operating with

576
00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:31,279
a level of found money just because like they are

577
00:25:31,319 --> 00:25:32,880
better than anyone expected.

578
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: But if they follow the way of.

579
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 2: The Orlando Magic where they got into the playoffs last

580
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,480
year and what happened against the Caps, they lost exactly

581
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,359
how we knew that the Magic were gonna lost, Like

582
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,039
pal Bankara was really good, but like the offense just

583
00:25:46,039 --> 00:25:47,880
didn't have the juice, So we looked at them over

584
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,599
the offseason. I got way too excited over the KCP

585
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,160
signing because I thought it portended more from them.

586
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:54,559
Speaker 1: They did Diddley.

587
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,279
Speaker 2: Squat after that. Really, aside from your talent retention, if

588
00:25:58,279 --> 00:26:01,400
you're Houston, people are expecting you to kind of lose

589
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,240
much in the same way where it's okay, like your

590
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:05,759
second chance offense and your transition offense isn't going to

591
00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:07,319
be able to carry you in the playoffs. And when

592
00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:09,200
you get into the half court, all right, you have

593
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:11,799
Jalen Green, you have Shanegun, you have Fred van Fleet.

594
00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:14,240
You're still hovering around the bottom ten and half court

595
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,000
efficiency this year, so it's just like that's going to

596
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,440
be a problem in the playoffs. And if you then

597
00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:22,160
lose while struggling on offense, you have to make changes.

598
00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:24,480
And there doesn't need to be a rush to say

599
00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:27,799
give up everything for KD go get Devin Booker. At

600
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:30,680
the same time you have paid Jaalen Green, You've paid

601
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:33,799
sh shng gun. Jabari Smith and Tarry Easton are both

602
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:36,920
extension eligible this summer, and then you got to start

603
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,680
thinking about like, oh, Cam Whitmore and a'm and Thompson

604
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,559
are Almosuden extensionaledgeble next summer. So this roster is it's fun,

605
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,799
it's young, they have a ton of optionality. I'm not

606
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,519
writing if they lose in the first round in five games,

607
00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:50,759
I don't think that that makes this season a failure.

608
00:26:51,079 --> 00:26:53,880
But you have to take the information of how unless

609
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,279
you make it to the conference finals, you have to

610
00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:58,359
look at how you lose in one of the first

611
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,759
two rounds and say, okay, like what do we do

612
00:27:01,839 --> 00:27:04,559
to address this issue? Because yes, you're young, but you

613
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,200
are going to get progressively more expensive even if you

614
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:07,880
stay the name.

615
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:13,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is a cause for concern of

616
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,440
maybe being too reactionary based on what you see in

617
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,559
the postseason two and I hope the Rockets don't do that.

618
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,119
There is pressure on their individual players of like, okay,

619
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,359
how will Jalen Green look in a postseason setting? Can

620
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,799
he get his game off. Can he be March and

621
00:27:28,839 --> 00:27:31,519
April Jalen green Well in this case, you know, he

622
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:34,319
was actually pretty great in January and December two, But

623
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,519
generally can he be the positive version of himself or

624
00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:40,799
is he going to resort to the shot chucking, inefficient

625
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,279
version of himself that we've seen as well. I think

626
00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:45,680
there's also a big question for Albert and Shangun, and

627
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,960
you know team's going to be trying to target him defensively.

628
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:50,319
I think he's improved on the defensive end, but there's

629
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,119
pressure to see if he can be your guy as

630
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,000
a back line defender for a team that's trying to

631
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,680
buy for a championship. That's another question moving forward with

632
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,680
the team. Amen Thompson, I think he will. He's an

633
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:07,200
extremely smart and talented problem solver. The fact that he's

634
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,119
shooting twenty five percent from three and still finds a

635
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,559
way to be super impactful offensively. You mentioned the transition

636
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,359
stuff that's that's a huge part of his game. If

637
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,920
that drives up, how is he able to put his

638
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,480
impact on this game on the offensive end, because like,

639
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,039
that's another question you have to address so individually, there's

640
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,200
questions for all of these young guys that the Rockets

641
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,880
are building with. I think that's a fair question. I

642
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,000
think that's fair amount of pressure. And to your point,

643
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,079
if these guys, like if Jalen Green has a really

644
00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:39,119
really bad first round series, how does that change their

645
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,960
value in the offseason, because now you're looking at them like, oh, well,

646
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,319
because things it's very fickle like that, right, It could

647
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:48,039
go from you know, right now we're saying, well, yes,

648
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:51,279
Jalen Green plus picks and maybe Jabari Smith Junior, etc.

649
00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: Etc.

650
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: Could get you in the room for a Devin Booker

651
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,720
or Kevin Durant, especially if it's the Suns picks.

652
00:28:56,839 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: Right, sure, yeah, but.

653
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: But that might change if Jalen Green shoots twenty five

654
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,279
percent from the field for like four games.

655
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:09,039
Speaker 2: I don't want to be here for the discourse of that.

656
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,799
It's not gonnat well, I think what's also so I

657
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,759
actually agree with what you're kind of saying that continuity

658
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,119
can in some ways be like the great market inefficiency.

659
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also.

660
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:21,079
Speaker 2: Given the way, like when you know what's kind of

661
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:22,960
going on with the second apron and how teams are

662
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,319
scared of it, it's gonna function as a like a

663
00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:26,160
really hard cap.

664
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:26,599
Speaker 1: It's a hard.

665
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it kind of already is when you

666
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,640
looked at some of the stuff that's happened, like the

667
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,720
windows are shorter, and it feels like there's more urgency,

668
00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:37,240
like to make the most of if you think that

669
00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:39,640
you have it. And with the Rockets, they have a

670
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,079
ton of different avenues to explore, where if you just

671
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:45,000
pick up Fred van Fleet's team option, that's like forty

672
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:47,240
plus million dollars that you can move in a singular

673
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:49,920
player and you have the draft equity to say, well,

674
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,559
we don't have to cut our young core to do

675
00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:53,920
something so long as we're willing to you know, foot

676
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,519
the bill for not everyone at all at once, but like

677
00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:00,160
Shangou Green and whoever we use with the van Fleet salary,

678
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:04,480
I think what adds to the pressure is that whoever

679
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:05,480
you the player.

680
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: We think they need, and again maybe.

681
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: They prove us wrong during the playoffs, but the player

682
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,720
we think they need in all likelihood they come in

683
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,079
and there's going to be a marginalization of I would

684
00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:19,319
say Shangoon or Jalen Green as a result of that,

685
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:21,519
because if you get yeah, kd is plug and play,

686
00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:24,440
Devin book are ultra scalable, but you want the ball

687
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,839
in those guys's hands as well, and like you know,

688
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:29,240
Shangoon and Green, that's not like the part of their

689
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,240
games where they just excel is like, let's have them

690
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:33,720
off the ball a boat load, and so then it

691
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:34,640
gets it.

692
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: Also, just wanted to mention Emao O Doka.

693
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: It's not like he's some like offensive whiz where he's

694
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,160
running like it's very like self reliant offense. Let's iso

695
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:46,000
let's find mismatches. And that, to your point, I think

696
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:49,079
makes the Rockets struggle offensively in the half court a lot.

697
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,160
So you incorporate Katie, you incorporate Booker. It's sorry, go ahead, that's.

698
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's really it though, And so then

699
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,200
you have to get in the discussion of well, then

700
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,079
which of the youngsters that we paid are we moving?

701
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,160
And I think a lot of people would just say, oh,

702
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,559
it's not gonna be Shanggoon. And it's like, well, what

703
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:07,519
if Yannis becomes available right with Houston, are you not

704
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:10,319
gonna go after No, You're gonna go after Yannis and

705
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:13,279
then do him and Shanguon and Aman Thompson makes sense

706
00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:16,559
on the same roster. Defensively, you could be a monster

707
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,759
and you'll grab a ton of rebounds, but like, no,

708
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,359
there's just no. So they're fascinating and it's maybe pressure

709
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,400
could be the wrong word, but I do think that

710
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:28,359
there's a chance, more so than any other team that

711
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,359
we've talked about, because we've mentioned like, oh, maybe Memphis

712
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,000
futzes and fiddles on the margins, maybe the Bucks just

713
00:31:34,079 --> 00:31:36,039
run it back because of the Dame thing. I think

714
00:31:36,079 --> 00:31:39,079
Houston set up to where the postseason will define their

715
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,559
off season more so than maybe any other team that

716
00:31:41,559 --> 00:31:42,480
we've discussed so far.

717
00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's ultimately fair.

718
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,079
Speaker 3: I think they are one of those teams that's gonna

719
00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:50,920
look at the postseason as information on their young guys

720
00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:53,519
and see if that information is something that they like

721
00:31:53,759 --> 00:31:57,160
and that in itself can be a level of pressure. Okay,

722
00:31:57,559 --> 00:31:59,759
I'm actually surprised we've got to this level and haven't

723
00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:03,559
meant in this team. Honestly, I'm pretty surprised.

724
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: I'm excited.

725
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,079
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm gonna go ahead and say, Okay, se

726
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:11,720
has pressure and it's crazy one thing, Yeah, thank you,

727
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:12,079
go ahead.

728
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's I think, and it's it does a

729
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,519
disservice to the sun thunder to just like to say

730
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:20,160
that they're still operating with found money or could do whatever. Right,

731
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,000
You're the best team in the league in an all

732
00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:25,519
time defense and the MVB favorite. Like there's thank you,

733
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:26,759
thank you for bringing them up.

734
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: Look they they I was actually man, I was very,

735
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:32,799
very tempted to list them as my second pick. And

736
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,559
the reason I did it was because the Grizzlies uncertainty

737
00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:38,839
and whatnot. But the Thunder should be should have a

738
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:44,000
lot of pressure. Like historically every single number you look at.

739
00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:46,920
This is one of the best regular season teams of

740
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,920
all time, one of the best defenses of all time.

741
00:32:49,359 --> 00:32:51,400
I think they're the best net rating of all time.

742
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,799
I don't know it's either them or the ninety six Bulls.

743
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,880
It kind of flip flops back and forth every game.

744
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,000
They are on pace to win seventy games. We'll see

745
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:03,200
if that eventually happens. I'm not sure they're also even

746
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,119
if they win sixty nine. They're one of the most

747
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,319
historic teams. Their Eastern Conference record is what twenty three

748
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,599
and one something crazy like that. They also just dominate

749
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,119
teams on every level, and they have an MVP level

750
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:18,480
player and Shay is likely going to win MVP it

751
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:23,039
seems like that's gonna happen. There's pressure in the fact that,

752
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,680
like last year, they lost in the second round to

753
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,160
the Mavericks, when most people thought that, like they are

754
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,759
going to make a conference finals run. They won the conference.

755
00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:33,680
They should have made a conference finals run. I think

756
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,680
that was a disappointing end. But people chalked it up

757
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,240
to age, People chalked it up to experience, et cetera,

758
00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:39,720
et cetera.

759
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: I don't think that excuse is.

760
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,319
Speaker 3: Here this season, even though they still are young, even

761
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:46,920
though they still have that age factor.

762
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: Because we talk about pressure.

763
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,759
Speaker 3: They got to pay Jaylen Williams this summer, They got

764
00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:53,279
to pay Chet Holmgren eventually, I think it's this summer

765
00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:54,720
as well.

766
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

767
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: Right, so now you're locked into that core. And yes,

768
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,720
that could give you some fluidity to try and make

769
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:04,119
moves around the margin. With Loudort's salary and Aaron Wiggins

770
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,200
is blossoming and his contract is extremely team friendly. All

771
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,880
that type of stuff is valid and true. But you're

772
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,280
eventually gonna have to pay Case and Wallace, and you

773
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,440
just paid Alex Caruso and Hartenstein's money comes off the

774
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,039
books in like a year or something.

775
00:34:17,079 --> 00:34:18,639
Speaker 1: Like that option on year three.

776
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,039
Speaker 3: So yeah, so you're kind of put in a situation

777
00:34:22,079 --> 00:34:25,920
where you do have that like contractual pressure too to

778
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:29,360
keep this team and have them win. And if they

779
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,599
don't make the finals, and that's it, like that's the level.

780
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:36,639
It's not a conference finals run. That would be a disappointment.

781
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,400
If they don't make the finals, that is a disappointing

782
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,519
season for the Thunder, who have had a historic season

783
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,079
for all intents and purposes, every single number you look at,

784
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,320
they're having a historical season. There's pressure in that. There's

785
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,239
inherent pressure in everything that they have to do in

786
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,800
the next I don't know, month and a half to

787
00:34:56,119 --> 00:34:57,320
try to get to the finals.

788
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,199
Speaker 2: I think you can make the case that if we

789
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:01,800
were to do this from a player perspective, that Jaln

790
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,320
Williams could be under the single most amount of pressure

791
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,239
of any player entering the postseason, because I think if

792
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,440
you're the Thunder, let's say they lose in the conference

793
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,239
finals or something, but you believe that and like the

794
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,199
defense is gonna hold up in the playoffs. There we

795
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:16,760
don't even have a car, Like there's no scenario in

796
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,760
which the Thunder just get the doors, get blown off them.

797
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,199
If they lose, it's probably gonna be what happened last year,

798
00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:25,400
where the non Shay offense just wasn't good enough even

799
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,320
with Shay on the court. That's going to come down to,

800
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,679
especially because of chet Holgrim's injury this year, like his

801
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,400
role hasn't really broadened as much. That'll then invariably come

802
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,639
back to Jallen Williams his extension, like you mentioned, and

803
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:39,599
you can sit there as the thunder and say like, no, like,

804
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:42,159
we still believe that he is going to be that guy,

805
00:35:42,199 --> 00:35:44,760
So we're gonna sit tight let him develop. And I

806
00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:48,000
think he's closer to that than not. And I think

807
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:51,000
some of the stuff about the non SGA minutes has

808
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:54,360
been overblown this year as they've gotten quote unquote healthier,

809
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,280
because they've still had people missed a bunch of time.

810
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,880
You have the equivalent of a top five offense when

811
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,440
at least two of Shay or Isaiah Hartensteiner on the

812
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,280
court without say yeah, and so the non Shay minutes

813
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,480
become even less important during the playoffs because there's gonna

814
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,599
be fewer of them, and so you're kind of just

815
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,239
counting on these guys. If teams throw the kitchen sink

816
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,920
at Shay, who's the guy that needs to go get

817
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,320
the shot, sometimes from scratch or maybe set up others.

818
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,679
It'll probably be Jaylen Williams more than not, And I

819
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,079
do think he's capable of rising to that occasion up,

820
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,079
but like you just need the thunder are so good

821
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:29,239
that if he doesn't, if there's any misstep, even if

822
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,719
it's even if he has a fantastic first two rounds

823
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:34,960
and then like falls apart in the conference finals. Again,

824
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,199
not a prediction. That's going to be a discussion for

825
00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:41,079
whether you view that as fair or not. And I

826
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:44,320
think you including them here is just a sign of

827
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,960
respect for the level of which they're operating.

828
00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:50,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that this team will make it to

829
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:53,880
the NBA Finals. And to your point, of all the

830
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:55,880
issues that they have, I actually really believe in the

831
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,559
Chett Hartenstein minutes generally, especially since they've played over the

832
00:36:59,639 --> 00:37:02,480
last like month and a half, they especially without Shay

833
00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:05,840
on the floor, have been dominating in those minutes. And

834
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:08,679
it's a matter of like, Okay, hart and Stein is

835
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,119
a great passer, good screener and home run. Is this

836
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,440
like massive target for Hartenstein to hit on cuts? He's

837
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,440
also a great shooter, So it just provides some tons

838
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,400
of versatility, et cetera, et cetera. Maybe that's a source

839
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,119
of offense for them in the postseason outside of SGA

840
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:27,199
and so you can find I just think there's so

841
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,559
many solutions on this Thunder team that I think they

842
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,360
should make the finals, and there's pressure inherently in that

843
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:38,960
aspect of it if they lose to I don't know

844
00:37:39,079 --> 00:37:42,239
the Nuggets, or if they lose, because I really don't

845
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,440
think anyone in the West is as good as them.

846
00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: So there's not a team that if they lost to

847
00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:49,000
in the West you'd feel comfortable saying, God get it.

848
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,639
Speaker 3: The only team I would feel ten percent confident in

849
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:56,760
or at least okay with is the Nuggets because Nikola

850
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,480
Jokic is the best player in the world, and if

851
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,039
he just had as what he did last night, where

852
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:05,800
he goes forty ten and ten through an entire postseason

853
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,039
series and no chet, no heart and Stein, none of

854
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:12,400
those guys can stop them. Okay, tip your hat, all good,

855
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,400
we'll come back next year. We'll have a better series.

856
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,039
That's I think the best case scenario for a non

857
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:22,440
finals run for the Thunder also would say, like, if

858
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:25,000
they made it to the finals and it's somehow Cleveland.

859
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,840
On the other side, if they didn't beat the Calves,

860
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:30,800
that would be disappointing for me. I think that would you.

861
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I might have more respect for the Calves than you.

862
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,119
Speaker 1: I hear you. I do too.

863
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 3: Look, I don't want to make it seem like I'm

864
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,679
discrediting the Calves, but like, it would make me feel

865
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,840
better if they went to the finals lost against Boston

866
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,800
in a competitive ish series, you know what I mean?

867
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,119
That to me is more of a successful year than

868
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,320
going to the finals against the Calves, who don't have

869
00:38:55,079 --> 00:38:57,559
or maybe equal in terms of the playoff experience. Donovan

870
00:38:57,559 --> 00:39:00,559
Mitchell obviously has tons of his playoff experience, but like, no,

871
00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:02,599
none of those guys have had finals experience.

872
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that would be just.

873
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:06,679
Speaker 2: I mean, like the thunder guys haven't either.

874
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,639
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know it's true.

875
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so the only thing I have. I

876
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:14,159
can't envision anyone in the West. I'm with you beating

877
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,760
Okac four times and seven tries. I think I would

878
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,519
default to the Nuggets, like, oh, I get it.

879
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like had.

880
00:39:20,119 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: The Mavericks not treated Luca like maybe they'll mix up.

881
00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:25,920
I talk about there and I had at the beginning

882
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,920
of the year, and this was probably like everyone's default pick.

883
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,559
I had Boston over Okac in the finals. The only

884
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:34,280
aspect I'm rethinking about that is whether I would still

885
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,280
have Boston winning because Okac is just I think they've

886
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,960
answered pretty much every concern that I had about them,

887
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,400
and they did so, by the way, while getting less

888
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,920
than stellar collective availability when you look at how much

889
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,440
time Chet Holmgren and ISAIAHS. Hartenstein missed both at the

890
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,239
same time but then separately as well. So, yeah, do

891
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,360
you think cause you mentioned this about Memphis, and does

892
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,079
the uncertainty kind of help them take like take away

893
00:39:58,119 --> 00:40:01,519
from the pressure. Do you think that okay, see, just

894
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:05,000
having the ability to make whatever move that they like,

895
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:07,559
they can create their own trade market, that is, your

896
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:12,119
own adventure assets. Does that like winnow down the pressure

897
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:13,880
at all because it's all right, like they did this,

898
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,719
well they can just go out and fix that by

899
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,079
getting player X, or does it like I guess it

900
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:21,280
might depend on if it is because j dub or

901
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,559
even Chet struggles like it increases the stakes because of

902
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:26,800
oh that was our second or third best player that

903
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,280
was having the biggest problem.

904
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 3: I should say, I think this is all external pressure.

905
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,360
I think internally they feel no pressure at all, and

906
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:34,920
the exam.

907
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,039
Speaker 2: Press he's gonna go to the postseason talking about like breadth,

908
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:38,000
We've only had our breath.

909
00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:42,039
Speaker 3: It's like time for not exactly look we we we

910
00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:44,360
on the Athletic Nbaday that we talked to. I think

911
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,679
it was Sam amc who we were talking about, like, okay,

912
00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:49,840
see's expectations and whatnot, and he was quick to address that.

913
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,360
It's not just Mark Dagnall who's like tempering expectations. It

914
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,519
is something from the higher ups on the Thunder saying we, yes,

915
00:40:58,599 --> 00:41:00,920
of course we're awesome and we're having a great season,

916
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:04,119
but like this is only step one in the process

917
00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:06,960
or step two in the process of us getting to

918
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,880
that point where we need to get to. So they

919
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,440
internally it doesn't feel like they have that level of

920
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,840
pressure on themselves. I think externally that's where the pressure

921
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,119
comes from, where it's like, Okay, you have someone to

922
00:41:20,199 --> 00:41:22,719
answer to if you don't make the finals. I think

923
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,159
that's a very very fair expectation to have for this team,

924
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,159
and it's respect to your point, it's a deep desire

925
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,519
for this team to want to make it to the finals.

926
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:34,320
I love watching Okay, see, they're probably one of my

927
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,280
favorite teams in the league. Watching them do what they've

928
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,239
done this year has been a joy. You just want

929
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,960
to see it through. You want to be right about

930
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,480
the fact that they've been this historic.

931
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: I think you found the sweet spot for them, where

932
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,400
if you would put them number one or two, it

933
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,360
might have felt like a little overreaction because what you

934
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,039
mentioned about the internal pressure not being as high, by

935
00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:54,079
the way, not the only reason he stills his job,

936
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:57,239
but just generally speaking, if you're an executive in the NBA,

937
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,000
what Sam Presty has done to temper expectation, that's great

938
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:02,960
for job security. So I would eleven of ten recommend

939
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:05,960
that for all other front offices. And then in Chicago,

940
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,760
the different type of job security is like, well, we

941
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,320
don't have our plan yet, we're still mapping it.

942
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: In Yeah, we're still figuring out yeah. Yeah.

943
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 2: So but I think you found the sweet spot for them.

944
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: Uh.

945
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: My third pick is going to be the Minnesota Timberwolves.

946
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to Okay.

947
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,559
Speaker 2: They are, I mean the Carl Anthony Towns trade, like

948
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,440
it wasn't nearly as shocking as Luca Dnch's trade, but

949
00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:28,199
like that's a trade that I'm still going to be

950
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:30,719
thinking about a half decade from now. The timing of

951
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,519
it was weird, the like the process from the Wolves's end,

952
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,320
where I think everyone kind of assumed, even though they've

953
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,760
said the exact contrary, like, oh, this is because they

954
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,559
think Randall's gonna opt out and they just want that

955
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:46,119
money off the books. And maybe, but like Julius Randall

956
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:51,079
has very clearly been their second most important player this season,

957
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,400
so you can't just say, well, if he leaves, like

958
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,440
between age eighty nine, Mike Conley and whatever Jade McDaniels

959
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,440
has done, plus Rob Dilling and nas reed like we're

960
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,679
gonna be fine. And oh hey, by the way, like

961
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,199
naz Reid can opt out of his contract and Nikil

962
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:08,679
Alexander Walker is a free agent.

963
00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:11,199
Speaker 1: We know what the cap space landscape is.

964
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 2: You and I there's really one team that's gonna have

965
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,039
a meaningful cap space and so you shouldn't be in

966
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:17,199
danger of losing any of those guys. What if you

967
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,280
decide you need to keep Randall and then it's could

968
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:23,239
like your wiggle room beneath the Aprons. Now, a lot

969
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,960
of that will evaporate if you have to give Like

970
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,599
if if Julius Randall ns Reed both pick up their

971
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:30,760
player options and maybe you're able to extend them off

972
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,119
that that'll buy you some wiggle rooms to Okay, maybe

973
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:35,960
we can keep Nikile Alexander Walker. Our tax bills like

974
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:38,000
way more reasonable than it will have been this season.

975
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,039
We're not a second Apron team. But like, if Naz

976
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:43,320
Reed ops out and you're thinking that the Nets or

977
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,760
maybe the Pistons carbout space or somebody is a threat

978
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,880
to give him twenty twenty five million dollars a year,

979
00:43:49,639 --> 00:43:52,599
you're gonna have to make tough decisions. And we talked

980
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:54,960
about this off air before we got started. Let's not

981
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,559
forget about the actual basketball of it all, where it's

982
00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:01,239
they are getting up for big games. Have there's only

983
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,559
three teams with a better net rating against top ten

984
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:07,039
teams this year. Somehow, the Minnesota Timberwolves still have a

985
00:44:07,039 --> 00:44:09,960
losing record in those games. And then on the flip

986
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,559
side of the equation, I know they've played more crunch

987
00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:16,440
time minutes, their winning percentage in clut situations is lower

988
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:16,920
than that of.

989
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 1: The Washington Wizards.

990
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,079
Speaker 2: This team makes no fucking sense and I will never

991
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:24,000
quit them because I'm so high on what their peak

992
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,000
could be. But they have like pressure from both sides

993
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,480
of the coin, where it's okay if you do well,

994
00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:30,559
like are.

995
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: You gonna are you gonna keep this group together?

996
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 2: And then if you don't, like you can't just let it,

997
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:37,360
like what are you going to do to get better?

998
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,280
Like what you don't have first round picks to trade

999
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,559
aside from Detroit's pick this year, And then it's They've

1000
00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:45,519
been mentioned tangentially in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes, and I

1001
00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:47,440
think he'd be really interesting there because I think it's

1002
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,079
clear maybe Dillingham eventually gets there, like with Conley getting

1003
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:54,159
older edwards, like again, maybe he eventually gets there, Like

1004
00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:56,559
they just don't have an A plus playmaker on this

1005
00:44:56,599 --> 00:44:58,480
team right now. So if you get Kevin Durant, he

1006
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,119
doesn't give you that, but he like eclipses the need

1007
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,760
for it a little bit. But like, are you gonna

1008
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,800
give up? Like it's not just gonna be Randall and

1009
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,440
Filler salary, Like you're gonna have.

1010
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:08,039
Speaker 1: To give up?

1011
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 2: I would say, like Jade McDaniels and or Rob Dillingham.

1012
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,760
And then if Randall's not a part of it, are

1013
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,159
you willing to give up Rudy Gobert in a trade

1014
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:17,840
like that? Would Phoenix even have interest?

1015
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:19,159
Speaker 1: They are?

1016
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,639
Speaker 2: The pressure's just it's real. I think with new ownership

1017
00:45:22,679 --> 00:45:24,800
coming in that'll matter too. I think you can make

1018
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,599
case that they're even higher on this list. The only

1019
00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:29,599
reason I wouldn't put them higher the standings are what

1020
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:32,199
they are at this point, and so I do believe

1021
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,519
they have a very high pinnacle. I just think we've

1022
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:36,559
seen enough to be skeptic as like, well, I don't

1023
00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:39,280
expect them to sustain this peak over the course of

1024
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:40,880
four playoff series at this point.

1025
00:45:41,159 --> 00:45:45,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dan, honestly, we are so on point with Minnesota,

1026
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,599
Like I completely in line with basically everything you said.

1027
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:51,800
So I don't have any notes, but I will say

1028
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:55,559
I listen to the Dane Moore podcast or like a

1029
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:57,519
snippet that he drops, he covers the Minnesota Timbers.

1030
00:45:57,519 --> 00:45:59,639
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, that's one of our shout there, so they

1031
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:00,480
do so could work.

1032
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,119
Speaker 3: So he did like a twelve minute breakdown of what

1033
00:46:04,159 --> 00:46:08,639
would happen contractually between Naseri and Nikhil Alexander Walker, Julius Randall,

1034
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,320
and basically the gist is they would only be able

1035
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,039
to keep two of the three. You know, any sort

1036
00:46:15,079 --> 00:46:17,440
of situation you kind of look at, they're probably gonna

1037
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:18,960
end up keeping two of the three, which means you

1038
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,880
lose talent, which means you're hoping that.

1039
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: And I actually think they've done a.

1040
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 3: Pretty good job with this draft class, like Rob Dillingham,

1041
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,800
Clark been interesting, Terrence Shannon also an interesting player, Like

1042
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,800
you can see these guys stepping into bigger roles. Even

1043
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,280
josh Mine not honestly has some moments where you're like, oh,

1044
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,639
this is an interesting player. I could see their young

1045
00:46:38,679 --> 00:46:42,760
crop of players filling in rotation spots pretty quickly for them.

1046
00:46:43,159 --> 00:46:45,320
So that's a positive side to this thing that I

1047
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,639
think I want to harp on because I think maybe

1048
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:50,800
that alleviates some of the pressure of we have to

1049
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,159
replace all of these guys immediately. I do think in

1050
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,960
the near future, if they don't go to Kevin Durant route,

1051
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,559
they're probably going to end up going the youth development.

1052
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:03,519
Let's go younger and figure out a core that fits

1053
00:47:03,559 --> 00:47:07,000
around Anthony Edwards a little bit more route. How that

1054
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:09,480
looks for the Rudy Goberts of the roster, the Julius

1055
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:11,360
Randalls or the roster. The Mike Conley's are the roster.

1056
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,239
That's a different question. But to your point about pressure,

1057
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,519
this is the most confusing team in the NBA by far,

1058
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,000
one of the most confusing teams that I've watched. One

1059
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:21,760
night you watch them, you're like, this is like they

1060
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,000
have the peak of a Western Conference finals team. Hey,

1061
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,800
they could you know, this is the level that they

1062
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,800
can reach. And then the other night, you know they'll

1063
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,320
lose to like the Brooklyn Nets or the Charlotte Hornets,

1064
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,320
and you're like, what is going on with this Timberwolves team?

1065
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,480
But like you, I can't give up on him. I

1066
00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:40,039
really really enjoy it. And maybe that's the magnetism of

1067
00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:42,599
Anthony Edwards and just how good he is and like

1068
00:47:42,679 --> 00:47:45,159
the level that he can get to when he's in

1069
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,159
no give a fuck mood, like he just doesn't give

1070
00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:50,880
a fuck about anything and he just goes off. But

1071
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,079
it's just very confusing roster. And also the new ownership

1072
00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:59,840
situation makes me vitalized. Yeah, just finalized today, makes me

1073
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,639
like they will go out and do something, because that's

1074
00:48:02,679 --> 00:48:06,880
what new owners do, and it just be funny if

1075
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,400
it's a Kevin Durant thing because that's what happened in Phoenix,

1076
00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:12,400
you know, and we know how that's ended up.

1077
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,519
Speaker 2: But yeah, what so I have a twofold question for you. First,

1078
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:18,719
what would be because the whole keeping two of those

1079
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,480
three guys like that makes sense, but I think if

1080
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:23,360
that's all you do, what would be the like how

1081
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,039
far in the playoffs do they have to go for.

1082
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: That to be okay?

1083
00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 2: For even or even for them to say we're just

1084
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,480
gonna run it back as is for something like what

1085
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:32,559
would be is it getting out of just the first round?

1086
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,960
That's just wonder Oh no, like they need to win

1087
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,599
two series? It a competitive second round series?

1088
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 3: What would you view as like the yeah, probably probably

1089
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,360
the second round competitive series? And again it shit, it

1090
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:45,639
depends on how this playoff.

1091
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 2: Right, If you're facing Okay see in round two, like, yeah,

1092
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:49,400
that's good luck.

1093
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 3: But like let's say they face Houston in round one

1094
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,360
and beat Houston in round one and you're like, Okay,

1095
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,639
that was a good series, but you know, Houston's younger

1096
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,199
than us, They're they're still learning.

1097
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: That's not like our our level.

1098
00:49:01,159 --> 00:49:04,679
Speaker 3: Who are we facing now we face Denver or Golden State,

1099
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,360
and in that series, you you kind of give yourself

1100
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,679
a very very good chance to win and if you

1101
00:49:09,679 --> 00:49:11,840
fall short. I think that's okay. I think that's the

1102
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,920
level that I'd be. Okay if I'm Minnesota, I am not.

1103
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,840
I can't remember if you are. I am not the

1104
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,159
biggest Julius Randall believer when it comes to postseason basketball.

1105
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: I think the last do they do those?

1106
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,039
Speaker 2: Does such a thing exist?

1107
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,119
Speaker 3: I have no idea, but like you saw it last

1108
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,760
night against Denver, where there's moments where it's like, okay,

1109
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,519
he'll throw a cross court pass and it easily gets intercepted,

1110
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:44,360
or like he'll have an opportunity to drive the basketball

1111
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:47,760
just terrified passes it Nikil Alexander Walker in the corner,

1112
00:49:48,039 --> 00:49:51,760
and it's like these are the moments where Karl Anthony

1113
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,440
Towns past that hurdle. Like I think it was a

1114
00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:57,599
huge moment for him. It was like an inflection point

1115
00:49:57,599 --> 00:50:00,880
in his career last year in the postseason versus Denver. Yes,

1116
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,119
he had a bad series against against the Mavericks, but

1117
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,480
against Denver it felt like he figured out, Okay, this

1118
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,239
is how you play postseason basketball. That does not happen

1119
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:11,559
for Julius Randall yet.

1120
00:50:11,679 --> 00:50:14,559
Speaker 2: No, and yeah, you don't have the spacing around him

1121
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:17,079
either to believe that like total live drible decision making

1122
00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:18,840
will ever be more like, yeah, he could make some

1123
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:21,480
good passes, the physicality on his dries and ability to

1124
00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:24,119
draw fouls, but yeah, you're never gonna weed out like

1125
00:50:24,159 --> 00:50:26,519
you need. I think Pristine's spacing around him like at

1126
00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:29,000
minimum to weed out like some of the stuff that

1127
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,239
you're already talking about. And that was kind of my

1128
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,320
second question to you is just anecdotally, and this is

1129
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,840
tough to answer without knowing how the playoffs unfold. If

1130
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,719
you're in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes, I will say, let's

1131
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,320
make one optimistic point. Let's say Julius Randa will opt

1132
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,800
in and either Phoenix is taking him or you're finding

1133
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,239
a third team that will take on that expiring money. Sure,

1134
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,559
you still need another sizeable salary. Are you including like

1135
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:54,320
if this is like, are you including Jada McDaniels. I

1136
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,159
guess is my point? If it's getting you what will

1137
00:50:57,199 --> 00:50:59,280
be age thirty seven? Kevin duran ors that just if

1138
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,400
you're the Wolves, is that a non starter?

1139
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 3: Let me just see what the Wolf's payroll is, because like,

1140
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,199
is there any other way for us to do it

1141
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:07,239
without McDaniels.

1142
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,199
Speaker 1: That's that would be my question back to you.

1143
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: Well, I think so there is, but like the most

1144
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,039
convenient way actually might be is like can you flip

1145
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:17,880
did the Suns want a big would you flip Rudy

1146
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,920
gober And do you prefer to have like Kevin Durant,

1147
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,679
J Mack and Nad Reed or you prefer to have

1148
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,360
Kevin Durrant and Rudy gober And, Like it would be

1149
00:51:26,679 --> 00:51:28,400
it would be an interesting thought exercise.

1150
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and Gobert is getting up there

1151
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:32,920
in age, so you kind of start to question if

1152
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,360
like the next two years of his contract and he's

1153
00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:37,800
you know, he has thirty six point five million dollars

1154
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,320
next year, thirty eight million dollar player option next the

1155
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,239
year after that, and it's like, how is that gonna

1156
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,519
look on your roster moving forward? Maybe you do want

1157
00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:47,440
to get ahead of that and trade that contract. So

1158
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,440
that's that's fair, But then you have to replace Ruddy

1159
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:56,639
Gobert's defensive talents, and like, ultimately he does provide a

1160
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,000
massive level of room protection. I was looking at their

1161
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,880
lineup data yesterday just as we were watching the game,

1162
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,880
and he's basically in every single lineup that's positive for

1163
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,760
them because he wins a huge amount of their minutes

1164
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,360
on the defensive end. So how do you replace that

1165
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,440
with Randall and Nasried and maybe Kevin Durant And you

1166
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,639
fall into the to the situation of like, are you

1167
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,840
Phoenix at that point? Are you just a different version

1168
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,679
of the Phoenix Suns where you don't have the rim

1169
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,920
protection and defensive ability. That's you have to ask that

1170
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,960
same question if you trade McDaniels. So it's like, I

1171
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,559
don't know, I don't know what the value proposition there is.

1172
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:35,119
You could also trade de Vincenzo and maybe get there

1173
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,199
with like the Terrence Shannons of the world and hope

1174
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,400
you can get kind of like just say Randall plus prospects,

1175
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:43,000
here you go.

1176
00:52:44,119 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 2: But I wonder, I'd like, I wonder there would have

1177
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,039
to be having a third team that really wants like

1178
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:50,719
a Dillingham in that situation would be my guess.

1179
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, But or maybe Phoenix.

1180
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: Is trading Devin Booker as well, and they're.

1181
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:57,599
Speaker 1: Yeah right, maybe they're just like done, they want to restart.

1182
00:52:57,639 --> 00:52:58,000
I don't know.

1183
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think they are the course

1184
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:03,559
to your point for the Kevin Durant sweepstakes. Also, like,

1185
00:53:03,639 --> 00:53:06,159
why why not if you're if you're in this situation,

1186
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,199
why not try to go for Devin Booker?

1187
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,199
Speaker 2: Like what, well, there's no way, Like do they have

1188
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:12,480
the assets for Devin Booker?

1189
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that's true, that's true. You're right. I'm

1190
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:15,920
getting ahead of myself here.

1191
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:18,599
Speaker 2: Dude, who is your This will be your fourth team?

1192
00:53:18,679 --> 00:53:20,199
Speaker 1: Right right? Yeah? Yeah?

1193
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:24,039
Speaker 3: Okay, how about the team that traded for Karl Anthony

1194
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:25,480
Towns in the New York Knicks.

1195
00:53:25,679 --> 00:53:27,679
Speaker 2: Oh, how was debating whether they were going to make

1196
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,480
my list. I'm excited to talk about them.

1197
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1198
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 3: So, like, obviously have been very very impressive offensively this year,

1199
00:53:35,679 --> 00:53:38,519
missing Jalen Brunson over the last couple of weeks. O

1200
00:53:38,639 --> 00:53:41,840
g Anobe has been awesome in that time, but like

1201
00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:46,039
generally not the defensive team that you would want or

1202
00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:49,599
hope to be. They have not been able to beat

1203
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,639
any real good teams, like.

1204
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:54,119
Speaker 1: Against the under of the year.

1205
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like it's very clear they're not at

1206
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,800
the level that they expected they'd beat. That being said,

1207
00:54:03,119 --> 00:54:05,599
watching the Wolves over the last two or three years.

1208
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,920
It does feel like there is an adjustment period for

1209
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,880
Karl Anthony Towns when he's kind of having to adapt

1210
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,440
to a new environment. You saw that with how he

1211
00:54:14,519 --> 00:54:17,000
learned how to play with Rudy Gobert, and now I

1212
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,559
think it's sort of adapting back to either being the

1213
00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:23,239
full time center for the Knicks or incorporating Mitchell Robinson

1214
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,960
into this situation and having those double big lineups be

1215
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,719
a bigger part of your core. So I think there's

1216
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,159
not as much pressure because I always thought of this

1217
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,440
year as a feel out process for this Knicks team

1218
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,159
that made so many wholesale changes between the Bridges trade

1219
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,840
and trading for Karl Anthony Towns, like a week before

1220
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,599
training camp, or it wasn't even a week before training camp,

1221
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:47,960
it felt like a day or two before training camp

1222
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,039
doing that and doing the Bridges trade. It felt like

1223
00:54:52,039 --> 00:54:53,880
there was so much change that it felt like this

1224
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,599
season was just going to be a feel out process.

1225
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,760
I never really believed that they were going to be

1226
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,000
the championship contenders that they could be this year. I

1227
00:55:02,039 --> 00:55:03,719
thought it was going to be a process for them

1228
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,239
to get to that level. I don't know what your

1229
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,440
your thoughts are on the expectations generally with the Knicks.

1230
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,559
But I think that's why I don't have them higher

1231
00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:14,800
on this list in terms of the pressure. There is

1232
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,119
pressure because it's New York and let's say they play

1233
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:21,079
against Milwaukee and maybe lose a first round series, or

1234
00:55:21,599 --> 00:55:24,360
go against Boston and they just get smoked in the

1235
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,519
second round, like they lose in like five games. That

1236
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,599
to me feels like a disappointment for Knicks fans, knowing

1237
00:55:30,639 --> 00:55:33,800
the expectations, knowing how all in they've gone with the

1238
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,159
Bridges in cat trade. But yeah, what's your thoughts on

1239
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:39,119
expectations versus pressure for this next team?

1240
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,599
Speaker 2: So I think you mentioned something that doesn't get talked

1241
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:44,119
about enough and is probably for the most part, the

1242
00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:46,760
fairest way to look at it. That because these change,

1243
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,559
like even the og Ananobi trade, Like this was the

1244
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:51,199
first training camp, but you're going to have to go

1245
00:55:51,199 --> 00:55:53,320
through with og Ananobi, and there was more than enough time.

1246
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,880
You got Mchael Bridges, he got acclimated. There was no

1247
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,880
time after Karl Anthony Towns trade, And so I think

1248
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,880
it's fair to look at it and say you can't

1249
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,440
expect Yes, I know, windows in the NBA are short now.

1250
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,719
You can't expect this just to manifest into you know,

1251
00:56:06,639 --> 00:56:10,800
a final finals or even making with Cleveland Boston existing

1252
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,159
the way they are this year, if you don't make

1253
00:56:12,159 --> 00:56:15,519
the Eastern Conference finals, technically speaking, that's not a failure,

1254
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,760
I think, And some of the other things that like

1255
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,800
probably are glossed over. Does Jalen Brunson sign the extension

1256
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,079
that he does if you don't get mcal Bridges, you

1257
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:27,320
had Jalen Brunson on one of the NBA's best contracts,

1258
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,400
and now are gonna continue to have him in one

1259
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,880
of the NBA best contracts after he made all NBA teams.

1260
00:56:33,119 --> 00:56:34,159
Speaker 1: That never happens.

1261
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 2: And then I think you can also point to if

1262
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,920
mcal Bridges is then going to sign his extension this summer,

1263
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:41,880
which will be below market if he does, relative to

1264
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,119
what he would get, would he be a free agent

1265
00:56:44,199 --> 00:56:47,239
even in the current cap landscape. Those are all wins

1266
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,159
that stack up. I think two things though again this

1267
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:51,800
might be the right spot. But if you were to

1268
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,719
make a case for them to be higher, they played

1269
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,239
all of their best trade chips. Those are just those

1270
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,880
are off the table, and so you don't that's not

1271
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,840
those are not decisions you make and then say like okay,

1272
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,719
like we need three years, Like that increases the urgency

1273
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,400
by default. And I think the other thing is they've

1274
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,480
put pressure on themselves by being borderline hopeless against the

1275
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:16,800
league's best team. Because if if you now look at

1276
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,039
the Knicks and say, let's just use the and we're

1277
00:57:19,079 --> 00:57:22,079
recording this before they play Cleveland on Wednesday night, so

1278
00:57:22,119 --> 00:57:25,280
maybe they're coming off a win against Cleveland, but it's

1279
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,760
it's April like, so I don't like, I don't really

1280
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,880
know what to read into that. But if you think

1281
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,199
that they're that far away from the Cleveland Boston like

1282
00:57:34,239 --> 00:57:36,400
forget about okay, see look at your own conference Cleveland

1283
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,199
and Boston. If you think they're that far away from them,

1284
00:57:39,639 --> 00:57:42,079
they don't just have the ability to go out and

1285
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:44,880
make a move that would then bridge what you view

1286
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,519
as a big gap. And so I think it could

1287
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:49,639
go either way. I'm interested to see more. You mentioned

1288
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:53,079
the Robinson Towns minutes. They've actually been really bad defensively,

1289
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:55,360
and like the few like possessions that I've seen with

1290
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,239
them together, I think they're still sub one hundred for

1291
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,880
this season. It's something you can go to. I ultimately

1292
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:02,840
think and this is again I want to see it

1293
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,519
happen in the playoffs. Karl Anthony Towns at center for

1294
00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:09,840
them is not going to work unless they're able to

1295
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:14,320
get like another player on the level defensively not maybe

1296
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,039
not as good, but does a lot of the same

1297
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:17,760
things that og Annobi can do.

1298
00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I thought Bridges could be that, but

1299
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:21,920
that he just hasn't believe.

1300
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,159
Speaker 2: Like but you all, the problem is you also need him.

1301
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,039
So it's like you have og McHale and they made

1302
00:58:26,039 --> 00:58:27,840
a big deal about this wing stop. I know Josh

1303
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,239
Hart guards up, but it's just like it needs to

1304
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,360
be better than Josh Hart and that's ultimately what where

1305
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,480
I'm at. And you don't have the assets to go

1306
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:39,320
get that player while also keeping these other players that

1307
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,679
you need. And I think the Brunson Towns pairing is

1308
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:44,119
also a part of that, because if you remove Brunson

1309
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:46,400
from the equation, maybe that changed a little bit. But

1310
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,719
your offense is never going to be as great as

1311
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,519
it is. To see ogn andob driving attacking more did

1312
00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:55,000
over Bridges. Jalen Brunson is like the guy against dead

1313
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,679
stop defenses, Like that's that's where you're gonna go and

1314
00:58:57,719 --> 00:59:00,320
that's the player you need. So that's where I'm at now,

1315
00:59:00,599 --> 00:59:02,719
And to say that is kind of uneasy. I guess

1316
00:59:02,719 --> 00:59:05,000
if you're a Nickson and they can disagree, that's fine.

1317
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,559
I'm with you that I think there's real pressure there

1318
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:09,639
because of the asset equity they gave up, because it's

1319
00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:12,639
New York, because they're supposed to be contenders, but you're

1320
00:59:12,679 --> 00:59:14,559
also they are still in, as you called it, like

1321
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:17,360
the feeling out process. That the problem is is let's

1322
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,559
just say they decide like, oh this doesn't work, like

1323
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,400
how do you get better while keeping this corn place?

1324
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,519
And the answer is you really can't, like they have.

1325
00:59:25,079 --> 00:59:26,679
I think as of right now, they're slated to be

1326
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,119
like five or eight million beneath the second apron. And

1327
00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:33,559
it's okay, great, you're losing pressures that you is expiring money,

1328
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,840
like who is the salary you're moving if you're trying

1329
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,880
to make something happen. Mitchell Robinson's value, I would say,

1330
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,239
is mercurial at best as an expiring contract. So I

1331
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,440
just don't like like the best, like who is the

1332
00:59:45,559 --> 00:59:47,679
realistically I'm not even this more of a like a

1333
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,079
rhetorical question, who's the best player the New York Knicks

1334
00:59:51,079 --> 00:59:54,239
could trade for without giving up Towns, oh Jiannoonoby Bridges

1335
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:54,719
or bruntson.

1336
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

1337
00:59:56,519 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like you're looking at like a Douce McBride.

1338
00:59:59,519 --> 01:00:02,280
Plus I don't know whatever amount of picks that they

1339
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,800
I don't even know if they haven't.

1340
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 2: Like practically they have that they have that Washington.

1341
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 3: Pick and yeah, yeah, so like that and what does

1342
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:11,840
that get you in today's NBA?

1343
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:12,239
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1344
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 3: I have no idea what kind of player, probably like

1345
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,880
a Dante de Vincenzo level player, which is it's just

1346
01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:21,840
it's funny, that's sort of kind of the type of

1347
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,719
player that they need in terms of the shooting and

1348
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:27,320
floor spacing aspect. I think that's part of I mean, look,

1349
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,079
their offense has been great, but you can always use

1350
01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:32,639
more if you're leaning into that identity of like we're

1351
01:00:32,679 --> 01:00:35,800
just going to maul you on the offensive end and

1352
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,639
just be this juggernaut. But they haven't, and I think

1353
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:44,719
like offensively, they've been so good in moments and they

1354
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,719
clearly have an identity there with Brunson and Cat, but

1355
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,400
is that going to be enough in a postseason setting

1356
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:56,320
against some of the best teams in the NBA. It's

1357
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,039
just that easy of a question, like that's and like

1358
01:00:59,199 --> 01:01:01,440
is it enough to so will you to two games?

1359
01:01:01,559 --> 01:01:04,079
Three games? You know, three wins?

1360
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't necessarily see it at all.

1361
01:01:07,039 --> 01:01:09,199
Speaker 2: I don't either. And this comes to the caveat though,

1362
01:01:09,239 --> 01:01:11,400
like I don't know, I probably wouldn't feel better about them,

1363
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,599
Like this to me has nothing really to do with

1364
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:15,280
the Cat trade, Like I don't know how much better

1365
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,239
I feel about the Knicks because first of all, Mitchell

1366
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:18,239
Rominson missed so much time.

1367
01:01:18,239 --> 01:01:19,119
Speaker 1: Who was your center?

1368
01:01:19,519 --> 01:01:21,639
Speaker 2: Like it was a Chewa and Randall. And then the

1369
01:01:21,679 --> 01:01:23,519
other thing is I think people lose sight of this

1370
01:01:23,559 --> 01:01:26,880
with the Phoenix Sun stuff like the Bradley Beal trade. Okay,

1371
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,639
maybe you shouldn't have made it to no trade clauses

1372
01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:32,679
damning their cardinal sin was not negotiating harder in the

1373
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,559
Kevin Durant trade totally. If this goes belly up for

1374
01:01:35,599 --> 01:01:39,199
the Knicks, the cardinal sin will be that they gave

1375
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,039
up all that stuff for a player who will probably

1376
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:44,119
never make an All Star team, or I think you

1377
01:01:44,159 --> 01:01:47,199
could say this season he has been their fourth best

1378
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:50,280
player for the entire season. If you want to go third, okay, fine,

1379
01:01:50,679 --> 01:01:52,599
But like you have a case that Og has been

1380
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:54,679
more valuable to then I would say he has been

1381
01:01:54,679 --> 01:01:56,599
more valuable to the Knicks. And then we know what

1382
01:01:56,679 --> 01:01:59,760
Towns was doing really up until recently, and then of

1383
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,559
course runs in so that will that'll, that'll be an

1384
01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:04,480
interesting thing to look back on. So I'm not even

1385
01:02:04,519 --> 01:02:07,079
saying that the Town's trade was a mistake because I

1386
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:09,239
don't believe in him at center with the current setup,

1387
01:02:09,519 --> 01:02:11,199
I'm not even necessarily saying that mckeal bridge is a

1388
01:02:11,199 --> 01:02:13,239
mistake yet we haven't seen it. But like that's part

1389
01:02:13,239 --> 01:02:14,840
of why the pressure is here is you did give

1390
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,079
up and you turned over so much of your roster.

1391
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:18,960
It's kind of they're at the point where if they

1392
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,159
have a disappointing playoffs, the most likely changes Tom Thibodeaux

1393
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:22,679
probably goes.

1394
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 3: I was actually gonna ask you, do you think there's

1395
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,320
pressure on Tibbs this postseason?

1396
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,199
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I do think the Knicks, especially when you've

1397
01:02:29,199 --> 01:02:31,159
watched like some of their fourth quarter offense or their

1398
01:02:31,199 --> 01:02:33,719
moments in crunch time. I think you can look at

1399
01:02:33,719 --> 01:02:35,880
this team and with the Grizzlies, I didn't look at

1400
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,559
them and say, you put give me the name that

1401
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:40,559
you put in there is gonna do a better job

1402
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,119
than Taylor Jenkins has done with this team. I think

1403
01:02:44,159 --> 01:02:46,159
you can say with the Knicks at least, even though

1404
01:02:46,199 --> 01:02:48,440
their offense is so good, I think you can look

1405
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,519
at it and believe that it might be more dynamic

1406
01:02:50,639 --> 01:02:53,320
or maybe they play more aggressive defense, like under a

1407
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,440
different head coach, to where like, oh, that's how Confee

1408
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,760
Town should be used because he's played so much drop

1409
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,559
this year. Again, I'm not even saying that's the right answer,

1410
01:03:00,559 --> 01:03:03,400
but he feels like if we're looking at anyone like

1411
01:03:03,519 --> 01:03:05,880
associated with this team under the most pressure this summer,

1412
01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:08,239
this postseason, I think it's probably TIBs.

1413
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:11,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Yeah, that makes sense. And also it's

1414
01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:15,480
like maybe that's the change that can actually redefine the

1415
01:03:15,519 --> 01:03:17,880
identity of this team a little bit. Like sometimes it

1416
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,199
is a coaching change. Look at Cleveland with Kenny Atkinson,

1417
01:03:20,239 --> 01:03:22,599
like it was enough for them to propel themselves to

1418
01:03:23,039 --> 01:03:26,360
a different thing. If you can bring a whiz onto

1419
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,800
this roster, someone who might have some new, fresh ideas,

1420
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:30,920
it might actually change things for this next team.

1421
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,039
Speaker 2: It's a great analog sort of like Tom Thibodeau. They

1422
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,559
found their JB. Bickerstaff a chapper on them into the

1423
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:38,440
really good days. But like they need a different head coach.

1424
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,599
That Taylor Jenkins might be available, rumor has it, who knows, Yeah,

1425
01:03:41,719 --> 01:03:44,400
then there you go, uh my fourth team. This is

1426
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:46,280
I think out a sign of respect. But there has

1427
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,800
to be pressure here. The Celtics. They're in taxes and payroll.

1428
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,199
They're about to cost over half a million dollars next year.

1429
01:03:53,519 --> 01:03:56,719
They have new ownership with Bill Chisholm at the helm,

1430
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,239
although he owns fifty one percent of this for franchise.

1431
01:03:59,239 --> 01:04:01,559
Apparently Wick is going to stay. I just want to

1432
01:04:01,599 --> 01:04:03,440
know I X grant this, Like did he get it

1433
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,480
in writing that he's gonna be the team governor? Because

1434
01:04:05,519 --> 01:04:07,239
we know how that turns out with Mark Cuban if

1435
01:04:07,239 --> 01:04:10,159
you don't. But I think, like if you bow out,

1436
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,239
but Cleveland's so good that I think if you lose

1437
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,079
in the Eastern Conference finals, it's fine, But is it?

1438
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,280
And it's just like if we know new ownership likes

1439
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,320
to put their stamp on the team, we know how

1440
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,840
expensive they are moving forward. Their twenty thirty two draft

1441
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,119
pick is already going to be frozen. Do they want

1442
01:04:25,159 --> 01:04:28,000
to also do that to their twenty thirty three draft pick,

1443
01:04:28,039 --> 01:04:29,760
and that puts so much pressure on them to remain

1444
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,719
out of the Apron moving forward. I do ultimately think

1445
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:36,760
that we're probably a year away from like Boston making

1446
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,280
a major overhaul. But if you don't go as like to,

1447
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,320
I would say, to at least a game seven of

1448
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:45,440
the Eastern Conference Finals, I could see, like Al Horford's

1449
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,679
a free agent, Porzingis is entering the final year of

1450
01:04:47,719 --> 01:04:50,320
his deal, the Drew Holliday contract. Depending on how he

1451
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,800
plays in the playoffs, that doesn't look like it's aging

1452
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:56,280
all that well. It just wouldn't shock me if, Okay,

1453
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,639
the defending Jamps didn't make it to a game seven in.

1454
01:04:58,639 --> 01:04:59,639
Speaker 1: The Eastern Conference Finals.

1455
01:05:00,519 --> 01:05:02,159
Speaker 2: If they don't make it to the Eastern Conference Finals,

1456
01:05:02,159 --> 01:05:05,039
that's a different discussion, especially especially in this East.

1457
01:05:05,239 --> 01:05:07,239
Speaker 1: I will say, I know, yeah.

1458
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,159
Speaker 2: So, like they're a team that just there has to

1459
01:05:09,199 --> 01:05:11,360
be pressure there. They're the reigning champs and they're so good.

1460
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,719
But like what we've talked about, the second Apron tangentially

1461
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,440
a couple times this podcast, that is putting a clock

1462
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:20,480
on these windows. And I think Boston is going to

1463
01:05:20,519 --> 01:05:23,480
be a fascinating gauge for how long are teams willing

1464
01:05:23,519 --> 01:05:26,480
to keep like the most expensive version of themselves together.

1465
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've already heard them sort of explain that, Like

1466
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,599
it the second Apron isn't the financial issue. It's not

1467
01:05:32,639 --> 01:05:36,079
the paying the tax. It's the team building stuff that

1468
01:05:36,159 --> 01:05:39,199
actually limits them in terms of like changing their roster

1469
01:05:39,239 --> 01:05:41,239
and making it harder. Which it's a fair point, like

1470
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,000
you really can't do much once you're a second Apron team,

1471
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:46,519
and especially if you're a repeater. It's just like it's

1472
01:05:46,599 --> 01:05:49,000
so limiting to how you can build out this roster,

1473
01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:52,440
and so you look at ways to improve after they

1474
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,480
win championships, like there's there's no real way to do that.

1475
01:05:55,519 --> 01:05:58,159
And Horford's getting older, Porzingis isn't a reliable like in

1476
01:05:58,239 --> 01:06:00,679
terms of injuries. You never know what kind of player

1477
01:06:00,679 --> 01:06:03,800
you're getting consistently. Drew Holliday is getting older. There's a

1478
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:05,679
lot of questions there with that roster. So I agree

1479
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:07,639
there is a pressure there. I probably would have picked

1480
01:06:07,639 --> 01:06:10,480
the Celtics here. I think that's that's like a fine

1481
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:12,880
place to put them, because when you win a championship,

1482
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,400
there is inherently a little bit less pressure for you

1483
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,239
to win again. But to your point with the second

1484
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:23,039
apron stuff, it does add that heightened level. This is

1485
01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:24,079
is this my final team?

1486
01:06:24,199 --> 01:06:25,639
Speaker 2: This is the final team.

1487
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 3: I have two teams and maybe you'll take one of them.

1488
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:32,599
So I'm hoping we kind of even out here as

1489
01:06:32,599 --> 01:06:34,639
it works out. But I think I'm gonna go with

1490
01:06:34,719 --> 01:06:35,880
the Denver Nuggets.

1491
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:42,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like they have to be yeah, obligatory inclusions,

1492
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,000
and honestly, I kind of feel like I've probably could

1493
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,639
have had them a little bit higher, just because, look,

1494
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,400
it's clear that they have lost a few rotation players

1495
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,760
of the last couple of years with KCP Bruce Brown, right,

1496
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:55,920
and that's like really heightened.

1497
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 3: Everybody talks about that aspect of things. But I think

1498
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:02,039
the Jamal Murray contract, them signing him to that contract,

1499
01:07:02,039 --> 01:07:04,119
and he's played a lot better in twenty twenty five.

1500
01:07:04,159 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: Wholeheartedly.

1501
01:07:05,119 --> 01:07:07,559
Speaker 3: You look at his numbers, playing very, very good basketball

1502
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:10,440
when he's been able to play. But you look at

1503
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:14,320
that and the Michael Porter junior contract, and you think of, like, Okay,

1504
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,280
what is the next step for this team? If they

1505
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,679
flame out in the playoffs, you know, you have to

1506
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,639
try to continue to build a contender around Nikola Jokic.

1507
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,039
How can you do that when these guys are I

1508
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:28,880
would say, probably negative assets on their contracts. Would you

1509
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,280
agree that like a Murray and Porter Junior, I don't know,

1510
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,559
at best borderline negative.

1511
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:37,159
Speaker 2: I think at best it's like Murray's had like he's

1512
01:07:37,159 --> 01:07:39,119
been good for like what three months now or whatever

1513
01:07:39,159 --> 01:07:41,360
it's been. But there's always just the level of up

1514
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,199
and down. And it's the same thing with Michael Porter Junior,

1515
01:07:43,199 --> 01:07:46,239
who I've called he's the streakiest all time shooter and

1516
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:47,400
like yeah, it's.

1517
01:07:47,199 --> 01:07:51,079
Speaker 1: Like yeah, So like that adds the level of pressure.

1518
01:07:50,679 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 3: Of like, Okay, well, what are you going to do

1519
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:54,840
if you lose in the second round to the Timberwolves

1520
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:59,880
or the Lakers or whoever. That inherently adds a little

1521
01:08:00,039 --> 01:08:01,880
level of pressure for you. But it's also like you

1522
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:06,079
have Jokic, you always have that safety blanket of like

1523
01:08:06,159 --> 01:08:09,119
we can build a team around this guy and retool

1524
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,760
and figure things out. We also have that margin of

1525
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:13,519
error of having the best player in the world on

1526
01:08:13,519 --> 01:08:16,159
our roster. But I do think there's pressure with that.

1527
01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,479
I think there's pressure with that aspect, and like you

1528
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,000
can you can bring up the conversation of oh, Yokic

1529
01:08:21,039 --> 01:08:24,439
would never leave Denver Jokic would There's no interest in.

1530
01:08:24,359 --> 01:08:26,520
Speaker 1: That, and sure that probably is true.

1531
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 3: But from a team building perspective, how are you going

1532
01:08:30,079 --> 01:08:34,079
to improve this roster if it's clear after this postseason

1533
01:08:34,119 --> 01:08:36,600
that they're not good enough to go against Okay see

1534
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:40,439
or maybe the Lakers who are rising in their own way,

1535
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:42,560
that's a question you have to ask.

1536
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 2: So Denver pressure, yeah, and I think, look, I've tried

1537
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,399
to view it through the lens of it feels like

1538
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:51,079
they can go another year because they can pretty easily

1539
01:08:51,119 --> 01:08:54,000
stay out of the second apron with this group. But

1540
01:08:54,079 --> 01:08:57,680
like when you have Christian Brown being extension eligible and

1541
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,560
also just you can't under it. This is just about

1542
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:02,760
the cron keys. But I would say pretty much any

1543
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:06,279
ownership regime, how much luxury tax do they actually want

1544
01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:07,680
to pay? Like we're looking at it, Yeah, you want

1545
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,520
to stay out of the second apron. This is something

1546
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,680
I missed on because of how punitive is when it

1547
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:15,279
comes to your transactional flexibility. There are also just ownerships

1548
01:09:15,319 --> 01:09:18,039
that don't want to pay this much money. The field

1549
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,279
would be contenders, and so I would say they're certainly

1550
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,439
under pressure. It's just like if they want to because

1551
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,960
the criticism I think will be levied at the front

1552
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,000
office ownership more than anyone else. Like they have the

1553
01:09:30,039 --> 01:09:33,479
ability to stay together without getting way more expensive than

1554
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,920
they were. This like it's the next season that you're

1555
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,239
worried about when you have a new deal. For I

1556
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:40,840
think that's when Gordon's extension kicks in, right or but

1557
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,520
you're definitely Brown his new deal will be kicking in.

1558
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,319
Peyton Watson is going to be extension eligible, So they

1559
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:50,319
have those decisions coming up, and so I think it

1560
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:51,720
puts a ton of pressure in just when you have

1561
01:09:52,199 --> 01:09:55,039
It's sort of similar to like if the thunder weren't

1562
01:09:55,159 --> 01:09:57,119
even all time great, but they were first in the

1563
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:59,800
West and you have no worse than the second best

1564
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:01,359
place you're in the NBA right now, that likely and

1565
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:03,520
like there's going to be pressure there. You have nicolea

1566
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,039
Jokic enter like in his thirties, Like you're you're just

1567
01:10:07,119 --> 01:10:09,640
under pressure to win because how much longer is this

1568
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:11,600
going to last? You also have to ask yourself and

1569
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,039
it goes for like Aaron Gordon's getting older, and if

1570
01:10:14,079 --> 01:10:16,319
you don't think you're gonna pay, like we both know

1571
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:19,359
you and I fast forward to twenty twenty six, twenty

1572
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,960
twenty seven, are all four of Jokich, Murray Porter Junior,

1573
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:23,880
and Aaron Gordon.

1574
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,119
Speaker 1: On this team? Unlikely? Very very unlikely.

1575
01:10:26,159 --> 01:10:28,520
Speaker 2: So like, yeah, there's that's the definite urgency. They're just

1576
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:32,279
a team where because they lack like pitch, they don't

1577
01:10:32,319 --> 01:10:34,439
have a second round pick to trade. I just don't

1578
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,960
like what would be the move because you mentioned it

1579
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,359
with if you were to start dangling Murray and Michael

1580
01:10:40,359 --> 01:10:43,439
Porter Junior, I think he would most likely be underwhelmed

1581
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:44,600
in what you're going.

1582
01:10:44,359 --> 01:10:46,079
Speaker 1: To get yeah back for them.

1583
01:10:46,079 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 2: And I still think, look, Murray's just too important to

1584
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,279
this basketball team, Like that's why he got the contract

1585
01:10:51,359 --> 01:10:54,800
because there's no one else who like who on this roster.

1586
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:56,920
Can you even like envision doing what he does on

1587
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:58,039
the offensive end, I'm.

1588
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 1: Sorry, Jalen Pickett is not doing that. No, yea, he.

1589
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 2: Will screen and you will feel it. But like that's so, yeah,

1590
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:05,760
they're under a ton of pressure. I just I guess

1591
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,119
it's I and this is the right spot to have

1592
01:11:08,159 --> 01:11:09,960
them because I would have picked them because I would

1593
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:13,079
have felt obligated if you didn't Yeah, it's just like, Okay, well,

1594
01:11:13,119 --> 01:11:14,800
what are they gonna do? I feel like they're like

1595
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,079
the Knicks. Doesn't it feel like they would fire Michael

1596
01:11:17,119 --> 01:11:20,000
Malone before or do you think they would trade MPJ

1597
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:21,319
before doing that?

1598
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,239
Speaker 3: It also depends on like what comes about in the market,

1599
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:29,800
like if if what if? Kevin Durant Again, everybody with

1600
01:11:30,039 --> 01:11:33,560
Kevin Durant is like the thing you throw at every problem,

1601
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,479
you know, the flex tape issue.

1602
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,119
Speaker 2: To be fair, like Denver's not the team you normally

1603
01:11:38,119 --> 01:11:40,479
see people want to go to, But Kevin Durant's like

1604
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:42,880
the level of basketball sicco. Whereas he was trying to

1605
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,640
find like the best running made or basketball fit. I

1606
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,439
could see him saying, I want to play with Jokic.

1607
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:49,840
Go figure that out.

1608
01:11:50,039 --> 01:11:51,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can see it.

1609
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,239
Speaker 3: I mean like, I just think who would even be

1610
01:11:54,279 --> 01:11:57,439
available if there was a situation where you could trade

1611
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:01,640
Porter Junior or Murray or both. That's sort of like

1612
01:12:02,199 --> 01:12:04,319
I don't know what, Yeah, what do you get.

1613
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:07,359
Speaker 1: In your view? What is this team's biggest need? I

1614
01:12:07,359 --> 01:12:08,199
think it's the other thing.

1615
01:12:08,359 --> 01:12:12,199
Speaker 3: I I man, there's there's a lot of like defensive

1616
01:12:12,359 --> 01:12:14,920
point of attack things, but I don't think you necessarily

1617
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:18,079
need a star to fill that void. You just need

1618
01:12:18,119 --> 01:12:21,319
more complimentary players that can do it and also knock

1619
01:12:21,399 --> 01:12:24,760
down shots. Yeah, KCP was sort of the idealized version

1620
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,079
of it. Christian Brown is doing it to a good level,

1621
01:12:27,079 --> 01:12:29,680
but you need just more of those types of players.

1622
01:12:30,079 --> 01:12:31,960
So it's how do you find that guy? How do

1623
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,439
you find Like is it just through the draft? Is

1624
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:37,159
it just through finding players who can do that more

1625
01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:41,439
frequently for you? Because I don't know, I'm not necessarily

1626
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:43,319
sure what the answer to that is, Like is it

1627
01:12:43,399 --> 01:12:45,359
just a draft or is it just trading for a

1628
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:49,159
guy who maybe you maybe you turn Michael Porter Junior

1629
01:12:49,199 --> 01:12:52,319
into two guys, two guys who aren't as good or

1630
01:12:52,399 --> 01:12:55,039
aren't as talented, but maybe fill the need you have

1631
01:12:55,159 --> 01:12:57,720
more frequently. But then you bring up the three point

1632
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:00,520
rate issue and is like one of their most important

1633
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,600
maybe the most important three point shooter, And so I

1634
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:05,119
don't know, it's a tricky situation.

1635
01:13:05,359 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 2: I will say he's the name I come back to

1636
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,039
because I agree with like their defensive needs and then

1637
01:13:10,159 --> 01:13:12,000
like the offense with the three point stuff. If you

1638
01:13:12,079 --> 01:13:15,720
trade Jamal Murray to like address any one of those like, well,

1639
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,800
then it's Okay, like shock creation, like outside of Jokich,

1640
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,640
where are we going with Porter? It's it'll be tough.

1641
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:23,560
But I think if, especially if you're gonna attach the

1642
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,600
one first round pick you can trade, I ken envision, Okay,

1643
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,520
we at least get someone who approximates seventy five percent

1644
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,159
of mpj's off ball gravity, and then we broke them

1645
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:36,119
up into two players, and maybe one of them is

1646
01:13:36,119 --> 01:13:39,039
a defensive upgrade over Michael Porter Junior. But you're like,

1647
01:13:39,079 --> 01:13:41,359
that's the other conundrum is it's easy to say they

1648
01:13:41,399 --> 01:13:44,119
need to do something, and it's like we could point

1649
01:13:44,119 --> 01:13:47,199
to maybe players, but they're all gonna be imperfect because

1650
01:13:47,199 --> 01:13:48,760
they don't have the type of assets where you're gonna

1651
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:51,399
get the the entire package in one guy. And so

1652
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:53,479
if you do trade a large salary, it feels like

1653
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:55,880
you're gonna be breaking it up into like two players.

1654
01:13:56,199 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1655
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 3: And I'm like just looking at the standings right now,

1656
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:01,680
trying to think of like play or destinations or things

1657
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,359
that might work. I can't really think of any team

1658
01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:08,239
that might want to offload guys, Like maybe Portland. That's

1659
01:14:08,279 --> 01:14:10,159
a that's sort of an interesting team, Like what if

1660
01:14:10,199 --> 01:14:14,399
Portland's like, hey, please, take Jeremy Grant and we will

1661
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,520
give you a prospect or another wing matist, Steibel will.

1662
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1663
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, I'm just kind of riffing here,

1664
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:24,039
but like that's the type of trade that I could

1665
01:14:24,039 --> 01:14:26,880
see where it's like you get these defensive minded players.

1666
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know.

1667
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 2: What's funny is that Portland has two players that I

1668
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:31,640
think would be perfect for the Nuggets if it was

1669
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,920
Danny avviy or Toomanti Kamara, and Denver just doesn't have

1670
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,520
the assets to I don't think they don't. They can't

1671
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,279
even get the dialogue started. So yeah, I'm with you there.

1672
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,479
My final pick, I'm curious as to how you feel

1673
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:47,399
about this one. I'm going to go with the Indiana Pacers.

1674
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,079
I am on record many times our subscribers will probably annoyed.

1675
01:14:52,079 --> 01:14:54,039
I'm saying it again. I think the Pacers are the

1676
01:14:54,039 --> 01:14:56,479
third most dangerous team in the Eastern Conference.

1677
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:57,039
Speaker 1: I agree.

1678
01:14:57,039 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 2: I think their ability to play fast and physical, and

1679
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:02,319
then they have what I call functional depth to where

1680
01:15:03,039 --> 01:15:05,439
depth in the regular season can be overvalued in a

1681
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:08,399
playoff context. I don't think theirs is I look at

1682
01:15:08,399 --> 01:15:10,520
that rotation and I go all right, Like, yeah, I

1683
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,520
don't know how much you can play Obi top and

1684
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,800
in the postseason who's been good this year, But like

1685
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:16,560
that's kind of it. Like if you need to play

1686
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:20,039
Ben Shepherd in the playoffs, you can do it. TJ McConnell. Sure.

1687
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,840
But while I think that this is not a team

1688
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,079
that will overreact, which is why I have them where

1689
01:15:25,079 --> 01:15:28,319
they do. Miles Turner is a free agent and you're

1690
01:15:28,319 --> 01:15:30,560
not cheap anymore. This is a team that we know

1691
01:15:31,239 --> 01:15:34,399
is not going to pay the tax and so as

1692
01:15:34,399 --> 01:15:37,680
of right now, without Miles Turner on the books, they

1693
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:41,640
have one point seven million dollars in tax base next year,

1694
01:15:42,039 --> 01:15:45,960
So like, uh, what is gonna what is gonna happen

1695
01:15:46,399 --> 01:15:48,840
like with that? And actually that number might be I'm sorry,

1696
01:15:49,119 --> 01:15:52,000
I misread that they have about twenty million dollars in

1697
01:15:52,079 --> 01:15:52,640
tax base.

1698
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's a little bit. There's little bit.

1699
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,520
Speaker 2: Miles Turner is just going to get if if if

1700
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:00,960
that's what happens, okay, well then you've made no changes

1701
01:16:01,119 --> 01:16:02,800
right and you have no flexibility to get You're gonna

1702
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:07,239
shed payroll elsewhere. I come back to, like, based off

1703
01:16:07,239 --> 01:16:09,399
how the playoffs unfold, I know a lot of people

1704
01:16:09,399 --> 01:16:11,680
have called the I want to say this very quickly,

1705
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,399
I'm sorry the Obi Topindo catches too much shit in

1706
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,920
the sense that teams do not squeeze their players to

1707
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:20,439
the extent a lot of people think they should or do.

1708
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,960
Look at Patrick Williams in Chicago this past summer. Look

1709
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,760
at like Nick who was giving Nick Klasston one hundred

1710
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,239
million dollars Like these are like good useful players where

1711
01:16:30,279 --> 01:16:32,439
they missed if you were viewing it as trade filler,

1712
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,079
that's too many years, Like teams don't want this multi

1713
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:38,000
year filler. He's been good for them though, and the

1714
01:16:38,039 --> 01:16:39,920
way that he gets up and down the floor can

1715
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:44,680
shoot it. So but if you're gonna start to cut south,

1716
01:16:45,039 --> 01:16:47,199
I think Myles Turner, even though he's waxed and waned

1717
01:16:47,239 --> 01:16:49,800
a little bit defensively this year, I think you have

1718
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:51,520
to keep him because I just don't know what this

1719
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,920
team does at center without it. Maybe you go towards

1720
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,199
more of a rim running guy, but then you still

1721
01:16:56,199 --> 01:16:57,960
have to go and afford that guy or find the

1722
01:16:58,039 --> 01:17:01,920
right player for that. Are you moving Obi Toppin and

1723
01:17:02,039 --> 01:17:04,000
is it you know, if you're salary dumping him, Like

1724
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:06,199
what are you attaching that are you looking at, well,

1725
01:17:06,239 --> 01:17:09,199
is it time to move off of the extension eligible Bennedictmathrin?

1726
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,319
How do they feel about Jarres Walker? Do they kind

1727
01:17:12,319 --> 01:17:14,239
of try and toe the middle ground? It's well TJ.

1728
01:17:14,359 --> 01:17:17,439
McConnell doesn't make that much seven percent of the salary

1729
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:19,119
cap for a backup point guard. We could probably just

1730
01:17:19,159 --> 01:17:22,239
send him somewhere. This team is gonna this team could

1731
01:17:22,239 --> 01:17:24,760
make the conference finals. Again, They're gonna undergo changes just

1732
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:26,680
because we know they're not going to pay the tax.

1733
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:28,319
Speaker 1: So I think the pressure is twofold.

1734
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,560
Speaker 2: You need to make the most of this court while

1735
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,720
you have it, because they are top ten in offense

1736
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:34,359
and defense for the past fifty games.

1737
01:17:34,399 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 1: That's a huge sample size.

1738
01:17:36,079 --> 01:17:38,279
Speaker 2: And then two it's just what, well, now you kind

1739
01:17:38,279 --> 01:17:40,560
of have to figure out, like who actually is indispensable

1740
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,279
to your your medium term future.

1741
01:17:42,319 --> 01:17:47,640
Speaker 3: Let's call it if I'm Boston or Cleveland. This is

1742
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:50,520
gonna be the most annoying second round team to play

1743
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:53,640
because you just look at them and you're like, man,

1744
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:55,600
they're gonna run all the time.

1745
01:17:56,079 --> 01:17:58,079
Speaker 1: They are actually pretty good defensively.

1746
01:17:58,119 --> 01:18:00,279
Speaker 3: Now. I think SACOM's a big part of that. At

1747
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:03,520
when they've had Andrew Nemhard, Nie Smith and Siakam on

1748
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,600
the floor, They've been like one of the best defenses

1749
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:10,319
in the NBA lineup wise, And I wonder this is

1750
01:18:10,359 --> 01:18:13,039
one of those teams that I think actually might have

1751
01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:15,680
kicked the kicked the can around for like a Cam

1752
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:19,279
Johnson during the trade deadline, where they were looking at

1753
01:18:19,279 --> 01:18:21,680
maybe getting an upgrade at the wing and like, let's

1754
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,760
try to give this a shot again going for a

1755
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:27,119
deep run. I could see them making some sort of

1756
01:18:27,159 --> 01:18:30,600
trade like that where we don't want to pay Ben Matherin.

1757
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,720
We might want to be out of the Ben Matherin situation,

1758
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,760
or we might want to consolidate Ben Matherin, Obi Toppin

1759
01:18:38,039 --> 01:18:41,840
and Nie Smith and get like a viable starting three

1760
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:44,560
that's like very very good, like a Cam Johnson or

1761
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:46,600
someone else that might be out there. So like I

1762
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:48,760
could see them making that sort of move in the summer.

1763
01:18:49,119 --> 01:18:51,560
At the same time, I would be surprised if Miles

1764
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:53,800
Turner gets paid more than what he is getting paid

1765
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:57,000
right now, like nineteen point eight, nineteen point nine. I

1766
01:18:57,039 --> 01:19:00,479
think it's probably in that range. So I imagine resign

1767
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,640
them if they have that twenty million dollars in like

1768
01:19:03,159 --> 01:19:06,159
tax room, right. I think they re sign them, they

1769
01:19:06,159 --> 01:19:08,439
get them to a place where it's comfortable, and then

1770
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:11,239
they try to upgrade elsewhere when it comes to the

1771
01:19:11,319 --> 01:19:13,800
you know, the kind of three spot for this team,

1772
01:19:14,119 --> 01:19:15,960
and hope that that's the way that they upgrade. To

1773
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,960
your point about pressure, I don't know if there's postseason

1774
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,520
pressure as much as there is pressure of like, hey,

1775
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,199
how far can we push one of these Caves and

1776
01:19:24,239 --> 01:19:27,479
Celtics teams, Like can we take Cleveland to seven games?

1777
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:31,000
Can we beat Cleveland? Can we instead of getting swept

1778
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,720
by the Celtics? Can we take two games off them?

1779
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:35,359
Can we take three games off them? Can we really

1780
01:19:35,359 --> 01:19:37,720
push them this time? I think that's the type of.

1781
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 1: Pressure that they have. I'm interested.

1782
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 3: I'm intrigued that you said Indiana because I would have

1783
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:44,039
said Cleveland just because of the fact that they've had

1784
01:19:44,039 --> 01:19:47,159
a really great season and yes, they're young, but I

1785
01:19:47,159 --> 01:19:49,880
think there's inherently, sort of like what you mentioned with Houston,

1786
01:19:50,079 --> 01:19:53,520
there's inherently some pressure individually for some of those players

1787
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,840
to prove it in these moments. Darius Garland, you know,

1788
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:59,600
obviously Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, like those guys have

1789
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:04,640
had inconsistent moments in the playoffs, and you're at a

1790
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:06,359
position where it's like, Okay, you've got to see if

1791
01:20:06,399 --> 01:20:09,079
these guys can actually do it when the lights are brightest.

1792
01:20:09,119 --> 01:20:11,039
No pun intended to the Jared Allen thing, but like

1793
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,199
that's why there's a level of pressure for them for

1794
01:20:14,359 --> 01:20:16,520
me over Indiana. But I can now see it from

1795
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,000
the Pacers side of things too.

1796
01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:20,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, the reason I didn't pick them is I think

1797
01:20:20,119 --> 01:20:23,119
that their pressure feels more isolated to Evan Mobley, where

1798
01:20:23,199 --> 01:20:25,439
sort of, hey, what you've shown that you can do

1799
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:28,399
this season, right, But he's actually he's been first team

1800
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:30,399
All NBA for me, I think for our past two

1801
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:32,439
award shows. It was at least the most recent one.

1802
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,000
But like, if he can't do it in the play

1803
01:20:34,039 --> 01:20:37,159
if he struggles in the same way he did like previously,

1804
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:39,319
it becomes a different discussion. But I look at them

1805
01:20:39,319 --> 01:20:41,239
and it's Okay, they're expensive, but they're not in danger

1806
01:20:41,279 --> 01:20:43,640
of going to the second apron next year necessarily. So

1807
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:46,159
I just feel like, look at all their best guys

1808
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:48,359
are under contract, two of them, just three of them,

1809
01:20:48,359 --> 01:20:51,000
excuse me, just extended. It feels like we're another year

1810
01:20:51,039 --> 01:20:53,680
away from that, but look, when you're this good, we're

1811
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,159
better than the Boston Celtics this year, there's of course, like.

1812
01:20:56,199 --> 01:20:59,119
Speaker 1: Actually pressure there. Yeah, no, I agree, and like that's

1813
01:20:59,159 --> 01:21:00,439
why it's weird to pick.

1814
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:03,720
Speaker 3: I think Indiana is more intriguing heading into the summer

1815
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:05,520
just because of some of the cap stuff that you mentioned.

1816
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 1: But I could see them making an upgrade.

1817
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,079
Speaker 3: I could really see them saying like, hey, we have

1818
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:13,439
some pick flexibility. I believe other than the Indiana first

1819
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:15,319
that got traded to Toronto, they basically have all of

1820
01:21:15,319 --> 01:21:18,720
their picks moving forward, and now they have sort of

1821
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:20,680
these assets that they can play with in a Ben

1822
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:24,079
Matheren in a top and maybe Nie Smith, you know,

1823
01:21:24,119 --> 01:21:25,960
some of the other guys like Ben Shephard and whatnot.

1824
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,520
Like that's sort of an intriguing package. If there is

1825
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:31,000
a player that gets.

1826
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:34,520
Speaker 1: Kind of maybe that's the Michael Porter junior team. I

1827
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:35,600
just thought of that, you.

1828
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,640
Speaker 2: Know, I was thinking about this because Cam Johnson was

1829
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:38,920
brought up a lot for them to trade them on.

1830
01:21:39,279 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 1: Like, are either of those guys what this team needs? Yeah?

1831
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:42,760
Maybe not, maybe not.

1832
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like they need to be in sort

1833
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,640
of like Herb Jones territory if he was, right, Like

1834
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:49,840
that's the type where like Jade McDaniels if he became

1835
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,279
available in Minnesota, and like I'm trying to go through

1836
01:21:52,399 --> 01:21:55,119
just like wing defenders who I think could like amble

1837
01:21:55,159 --> 01:21:56,720
their way onto the market, and so.

1838
01:21:57,199 --> 01:22:00,600
Speaker 1: Like the stopper right right, and so just because Andrew M.

1839
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:03,119
Speaker 2: Harkton do it, he's just not big enough. And then

1840
01:22:03,199 --> 01:22:04,960
like Shephard again, like even if he could do it,

1841
01:22:05,079 --> 01:22:05,720
is he big enough?

1842
01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 1: Aaron E.

1843
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 2: Smith?

1844
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: Is he big enough? They're all like six' five and, under, Right.

1845
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 2: And it's just like that's even if Bennec matther was big,

1846
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,319
Enough like that's just not his. Game. Mhm SO i,

1847
01:22:15,399 --> 01:22:17,720
mean like unless you, THINK i don't think he's had

1848
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:19,319
a lot better highs this. Year LIKE i don't Think

1849
01:22:19,359 --> 01:22:20,399
Garris walker is going.

1850
01:22:20,319 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 1: To be that player.

1851
01:22:21,239 --> 01:22:23,600
Speaker 3: Either he's been, fun but he feels more of like

1852
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,000
a tweener than a guy who's going to be like

1853
01:22:26,319 --> 01:22:29,039
stopping guys at the point of attack. CONSISTENTLY i don't

1854
01:22:29,079 --> 01:22:31,680
think he's more like a help side rim protector who's

1855
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:32,840
gonna be crazy active on the.

1856
01:22:33,239 --> 01:22:35,680
Speaker 2: Boards but, yeah do you think there'd be merit to

1857
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,159
wrap up on? Them of if like maybe they just

1858
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:40,399
don't want to Pay turner and it would be in

1859
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:42,520
theory cheaper to get more of like a like a

1860
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,079
rim protecting rim.

1861
01:22:44,199 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 1: Runner is their merit to?

1862
01:22:46,039 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 2: That thinking of, like, well let's also like have a

1863
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:49,680
different type of you, know like sort of what a

1864
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,600
Healthy Isaiah jackson could be for this, team but maybe

1865
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,159
a better version would you rather? See do you think

1866
01:22:55,199 --> 01:22:58,000
it's more important to like preserve like the style of

1867
01:22:58,079 --> 01:23:01,119
play That Miles turner can give, you or might it

1868
01:23:01,199 --> 01:23:02,920
be worth it to change up kind of the look

1869
01:23:03,399 --> 01:23:04,960
of your front court and go with like AND i

1870
01:23:05,039 --> 01:23:08,159
know we've seen LIKE i, Mean Thomas, bryant's Like Tony,

1871
01:23:08,199 --> 01:23:11,079
Bradley like you haven't really gotten great insight into, what let's,

1872
01:23:11,079 --> 01:23:13,079
say a better version Of Isaiah jackson would look like

1873
01:23:13,159 --> 01:23:13,840
as your primary.

1874
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:15,560
Speaker 1: FIVE i don't know.

1875
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 2: Who is out there of that realm that's that's Chamber Miles,

1876
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,600
Turner like Maybe Brook lopez won't be as expensive As Miles.

1877
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:24,079
Speaker 1: Turner that'd be, yeah, Yeah.

1878
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,479
Speaker 3: Like what's what's the player out there that could kind

1879
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:30,239
of be that that change up? Center and ALSO i would,

1880
01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:32,680
say like When pascal got traded, THERE i think one

1881
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:35,000
of the things that he mentioned, Was, HEY i love

1882
01:23:35,039 --> 01:23:36,560
the fact That i'm playing with a big man Like

1883
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:38,680
Miles turner who can spread the. Floor it makes, it you,

1884
01:23:39,319 --> 01:23:42,119
know so they that feels like it's part of the

1885
01:23:42,279 --> 01:23:44,640
package here of the type of team they want to

1886
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:46,600
be and of the type of team the players want

1887
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:46,880
them to.

1888
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,039
Speaker 1: Be BUT i don't, know like who's out? There Would

1889
01:23:49,079 --> 01:23:50,079
Nick claxton be.

1890
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 2: A?

1891
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 1: GUY i don't, KNOW.

1892
01:23:53,199 --> 01:23:55,399
Speaker 2: I mean man you talk, about but that like he

1893
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:57,720
might be their best wing defender at that, point, Right, LIKE.

1894
01:23:59,359 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 1: I don't.

1895
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:02,319
Speaker 3: Know it all comes down to like the type of

1896
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:06,560
big that gets becomes available in the summer and like

1897
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,399
a HEALTHY rw, Three but that's that doesn't exist.

1898
01:24:10,239 --> 01:24:14,319
Speaker 1: Sure basically, yeah eight and anybody want to get it

1899
01:24:14,359 --> 01:24:17,439
on that they want them at one? Point, yeah yeah.

1900
01:24:18,119 --> 01:24:19,159
S that was a lot of.

1901
01:24:19,199 --> 01:24:21,039
Speaker 2: Fun thank you so much for going through that exercise with.

1902
01:24:21,119 --> 01:24:22,960
ME i think it was instructive ahead of the. Playoffs

1903
01:24:23,039 --> 01:24:25,560
are you just able to tell our subscribers where they

1904
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,720
can find you and all the fantastic work that you.

1905
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 3: Do, yeah you will be more interested in My Raptors

1906
01:24:32,079 --> 01:24:35,600
republic videos next season once the team is actually good

1907
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:36,800
and potentially.

1908
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:40,119
Speaker 1: Competitive and that's the number one defense you're just. Derailing you're,

1909
01:24:40,199 --> 01:24:40,600
Right you're.

1910
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 3: Right, hey they're going to be a pretty good defense

1911
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:45,079
next season. TWO i will bet on, it but, yeah you.

1912
01:24:45,119 --> 01:24:48,239
Can you can check out the podcast at The ATHLETIC Nba.

1913
01:24:48,319 --> 01:24:51,399
Speaker 1: Daily we hosted. Daily that's part of the podcast, name

1914
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:54,039
as you can. See BUT i appreciate you having me

1915
01:24:54,119 --> 01:24:55,600
on then as, always thanks so.

1916
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:57,479
Speaker 2: Much you can find the links to all this and

1917
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:00,319
stuff in our podcast at. Description he's a fantastic follow

1918
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:03,079
on the, socials like posting videos or just thoughts of

1919
01:25:03,119 --> 01:25:06,239
the games he's, watching so highly recommend at just S

1920
01:25:06,359 --> 01:25:08,319
Darren andi is on the. Screen it'll also be in

1921
01:25:08,399 --> 01:25:11,560
the podcast YouTube. Description thank you so. Much service was

1922
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:13,279
fun as, always and rest a. SHORT i will be

1923
01:25:13,399 --> 01:25:14,520
pestering you again in the.

1924
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 1: Future gre