WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:02.640 All right, Thomas, welcome back to the Jay Burden Show. 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:04.759 How are you doing. I'm well, thank you man. 3 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:08.439 It's always a pleasure, and I'm very pleased you invited 4 00:00:08.439 --> 00:00:10.160 me to participate once again. 5 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:12.320 Yeah, thank you so much for coming out. 6 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:14.759 I always enjoy our conversations, and this one's I'm I 7 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:18.120 guess I'm particularly interested in this topic. So what I 8 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:20.760 want to talk to you today is, essentially, you've described 9 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:24.320 yourself as a right Hegelian, and so I think a 10 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:28.039 lot of people on the right associate Hegel very much 11 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:31.320 with kind of like Marxist thought. But before we get 12 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:34.039 into that, could you give just a brief description of 13 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:37.119 who Hagel was and why he was important. 14 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:42.119 I mean, Hegel was if anybody who just got, you know, 15 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.880 any kind of rude. I don't know what universities basically 16 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:47.000 teach in terms of philosophy these days, like what their 17 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:51.119 introductory curriculum was, and even twenty thirty years ago. I 18 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:54.039 went to a Jesuit college in the big city, which 19 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:56.399 might seem weird to people, you know, one to my 20 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:02.000 own confessional heritage, but I it's where I went to 21 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:05.439 Loyally University, and there they had a peculiar emphasis on 22 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:10.439 uh on on political philosophy, you know, and they uh, 23 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:14.280 they they're in those days, their philosophy and political science 24 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:16.840 department were very theory based and did not have a 25 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.560 Jesuit or liberal orientation. That maybe different now, but in 26 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:22.319 any event, so even then, I didn't I didn't have 27 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:25.079 a great grasp of of what they you know, of 28 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:27.840 what kind of big ten colleges taught people in terms 29 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.959 of philosophy. But what I've gleaned just kind of from 30 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:37.040 you know, perusing you know, the syllabi of philosophy courses 31 00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:39.439 and things, and from what people have told me kind 32 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:43.599 of young and old, you know, they they they kind 33 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:47.159 of present the distinction between continental philosophy and analytic philosophy, 34 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:52.680 you know, somewhat derisively, I think. Okay, but that doesn't 35 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:54.079 need to be the case. You know, there's no there's 36 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:59.200 nothing inherently punitive about describing continental philosophy in contrast, uh 37 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:03.239 you know, uh rationalist and puricism and things like that 38 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:07.000 and and what have you. And and there's more, there's 39 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:11.479 there's more. There's more interrelatedness in terms of intellectual foundation 40 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:15.319 than most people will allow. But if if you want 41 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:18.800 to know who the true father of philosophy is as 42 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:24.159 we perceive it, it's Hegel, okay, and uh, the degree 43 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:30.039 of what German idealism kind of created, the basically European 44 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:32.400 philosophy is all in all in dialogue with Aristotle and 45 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:37.039 German idealism. Okay, that's a little bit outside the scope. 46 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:39.680 And I'm not any kind of expert on Aristotle. I 47 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:41.599 mean most of what I know of Aristotle, I mean obviously, 48 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:43.759 like I've read you know, the Nico Mackey and ethics 49 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.240 and the politics and things, and I studied that extensively. 50 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:53.199 But I don't have fluency in Greek, so that's one barrier. 51 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:55.960 But also I mean my my kind of area of 52 00:02:56.520 --> 00:03:01.479 focus is uh, you know, the modern era, so I 53 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:04.240 I mostly I mostly came to the Aristotle in the 54 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:08.000 classics as well as the pre Socratics, you know, through uh, 55 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:13.919 through thinkers like uh Schopenhauer, Niche to Hegel, Turke Guard, 56 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:17.599 you know, people like this. But in any event, to 57 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:23.879 bring it back continal philosophy, I mean today it's your 58 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:26.280 philosophy is uh, it doesn't need to be this way, 59 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:30.159 but traditional philosophy is somewhat dead. Although I'd argue that 60 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:33.719 a lot of a lot of a lot of kind 61 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:39.120 of neurosciences, you know, like neuroscience and things specifically like 62 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:44.759 the you know, the science of of mind versus uh, 63 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:47.159 you know, just to study of the physical brain. I 64 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:51.400 mean that that very much, that very much spills over 65 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.319 into in in into the territory of philosophy oka inevitably, 66 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.439 and it ends up having a philosophical discussion in kind 67 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:01.639 of conventional terms, whether the intention or not, some of 68 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:05.800 you do find you do find condinal continental philosophy insinuated 69 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:10.879 into modern academic discourse. But it's it's in somewhat accidental ways, Okay. 70 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.319 But at the same time, there's a there's a lot written, 71 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:19.079 uh in critical capacities, positively and negatively about philosophy. You know, 72 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:22.959 there's a huge amount of stuff published in that and 73 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:24.680 which is good. I mean, it's good people are still 74 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:28.560 reading these things. It's unfortunate again that there's not a 75 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:32.160 lot of original work. That's that's uh, that kind of 76 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:38.040 unqualifiably you know, calls of self philosophy. But the but regardless, 77 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:40.800 you know, all all all that all that scholarship that 78 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:44.560 I just described, it's all, it's all, it's all basically 79 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:48.079 in dialogue with Hey, okay, in some and into some 80 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:51.959 degree or another. Okay. So I mean that's whether people 81 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:56.240 realize it or not. Anybody who's kind of intellectually engaged 82 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.519 with with these sorts of thought, paradigms and and in 83 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:04.360 this kind of this kind of intellectual history and heritage, 84 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:07.959 you know, they're they're engaged with Hegel when if they 85 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:10.839 if they if they haven't studied, if they haven't studied 86 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:15.639 the original uh source documents by the man himself, if 87 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:17.759 they were, if they were to do so, they they'd 88 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.439 come to realize that, oh wow, you know I I 89 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:22.720 you know, they they recognize the concepts that they've been 90 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:25.920 in dialogue with pretty much for the the entirety of 91 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:30.519 their you know, sort of academic career. So that's that's 92 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:36.600 something to keep in mind. And more concrete terms, the 93 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:39.680 twentieth century was the Hegelian century, you'll gain a very 94 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:45.160 real sense. But for peculiar and peculiar capacities. I can't 95 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:51.279 remember who it was, and uh, I don't think it's 96 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.800 early on set dementia. It's just that I my memory 97 00:05:54.800 --> 00:06:00.160 fails me sometimes with with uh with names, but uh, 98 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:05.639 it may have been Louis Fernand Sealin, you know, uh 99 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:10.639 the French, uh the the kind of the kind of French, uh, 100 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:15.839 transgressive philosophic novelist. It might have been him, but I 101 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.680 if I'm wrong, I mean some some will correct me 102 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:22.720 in the comments or whatever. Said, Uh that the Battle 103 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:25.439 of Stalingrad, with where right and left he Gallien's met, 104 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.000 you know, to settle their differences once and for all. 105 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:32.160 And I mean he was there. That was the intended 106 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.839 That is kind of Gallows humor, but it actually was correct. Okay, 107 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:42.639 And uh, the uh there's a peculiar thing in in 108 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:47.600 Marxism because you know, dialectical materialism turns Gelienism on its head. 109 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:51.160 You know, it's I think of I think of it 110 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:53.199 as I think of the relationship of Marx to uh 111 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:56.399 to Hegel's kind of like the relationship of Karl Schmidt 112 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:58.519 to Hobbes. Okay, and people are familiar with both Len 113 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:02.360 of Snammer. I'm going with it. But Marxism really kind 114 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:05.639 of rejected the core it kind of presented. It adopted 115 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:13.040 a Hegelian methodology in a sense, but that postulated, uh, 116 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:19.120 the opposite cause as the as the prime moving force 117 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:23.519 of history, which is really strange and it's further complicated 118 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.879 by the fact that originally the quote left Hegelians were 119 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:30.680 guys like David Strauss with these kind of liberal theologians, 120 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:35.160 you know, who who were very much concerned with, you know, 121 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:38.480 removing a reference to the who. And they they viewed 122 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.879 kind of the you know, they viewed their opposition, you know, 123 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.759 kind of the Prussian UH apologies for the Prussian state. 124 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:48.160 You know, they viewed them, you know, as as uh 125 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.639 as basically appealing the to the absolute you know, and 126 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.639 to the UH and the and the biblical authority and 127 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:57.399 you know, and supernatural causes in order to kind of 128 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:00.759 shut down arguments that you know, forced them to kind 129 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:04.199 of rationalize why they they posited that, you know, the state, 130 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:07.720 you know, represented the kind of concrete zenith of an 131 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.920 ideal that you know, brought about by you know, centuries 132 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:13.560 of dialectic. But these the big guys like Strauss, I 133 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:15.319 mean he was he was like he was liberal and 134 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.040 like you know, the kind of the nineteenth century sense, Okay, 135 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:21.560 like he wasn't you know, and he had he had 136 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:24.639 heterodopts views of Christ and things. But you know, these 137 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:26.800 guys had nothing in kind with Marxist or anything. So 138 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:29.560 then later they you know, so when Marxism kind of 139 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.759 came into its own, you know, and became this huge 140 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:37.879 animating force and this kind of you know, incredibly powerful movement. 141 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.559 You know, Marxists became viewed as the quote left to Galiens, 142 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:43.919 and these guys extrass became referred to as the quote 143 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:47.159 young Hegelians. So I mean, this is all very convoluted, 144 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:52.120 but I guess my point is that in a very 145 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.759 strange way, like like like Marxism is kind of a 146 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:57.799 peculiar I mean, a right a Gallian with you, Marxism 147 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:01.519 is kind of this like deviant offshoot of the dialectical 148 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:08.320 process itself. That's like purposefully that purposefully contrarian. But nevertheless, 149 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:12.159 you know, owes its origins to the dialectical process that 150 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.600 you know is the is the is the prime moving 151 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:20.759 agent of history. You know, Marxists themselves, like calling them 152 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.120 quote left Tagilians is peculiar because again, you know, they 153 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:27.039 they cite, uh, you know, they cite you know, dialectal 154 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:30.639 materialism and and you know, these these kind of determinative 155 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:34.840 you know physical literally like determinative physical processes of labor 156 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:38.480 and production and technics. You know, in manage relationship to 157 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.600 these things as as being what you know shapes man's 158 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:45.600 conceptual horizon as well as driving the historical process. So 159 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:49.440 I mean it's very it's very very strange. But the 160 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:53.679 uh so essentially, if you if you're if you're a 161 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:58.440 traditionalist Tagelian, you know, in in terms of UH, you know, 162 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:03.240 you're you're you're centered on the absolute. You know it's 163 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:07.279 the source of ultimate reality and uh, you know, you 164 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:12.879 basically accept like Hegel's postulates about the nature of mind 165 00:10:14.919 --> 00:10:18.759 versus the nature of concrete reality, and you know, the 166 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:25.159 interplay between uh both uh domains and if you you know, 167 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.440 accept that, uh, you know, if if you accept UH, 168 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.039 if you accept the perspective that uh, you know, the 169 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:37.440 dialogical process ultimately uh you know, ultimately perfects uh perfects 170 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:44.080 uh its progress towards uh the ideal that is uh 171 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:49.919 inspires it in the first place. You know that that 172 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:52.960 if you accept that perspective, by default, you're kind of 173 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:56.679 you're considered a right Hegelian. I mean, I can I 174 00:10:57.159 --> 00:11:01.440 refer to myself that way, because I mean, I'm not 175 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:04.799 I think the right left paradigm doesn't hold a whole 176 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:06.559 lot of meaning in the twenty first century. But that 177 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:12.759 but but just for in the interest of coherence and 178 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:15.960 and uh, you know, uh, in clarity, I mean that 179 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:20.639 people understand we're talking about in familiar terms when we 180 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:22.960 say right versus left, because if nothing else, that describes 181 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:26.600 basically a series of you know, a set of values 182 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:29.759 and preferences, you know, ethical, aesthetic, and otherwise in a 183 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:33.279 certain historical perspective. So I mean, I don't run from 184 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:34.960 it when people, you know, say that I'm a right 185 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.519 wing but you know, it's not I don't have some 186 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:41.039 I don't have some discrete kind of take on hegel 187 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:45.639 It's that I'm literally a right wing writer and revisionist 188 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.399 who's also a Hegelian. So and kind of by default 189 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:51.799 because I don't ascribe to this, you know, I don't 190 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:56.120 describe to this kind of critical theology perspective of people 191 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:59.759 like Strauss, not Leo Straus, David Strauss for the clarity, 192 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:02.480 you know, and I and obviously I'm not any kind 193 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:05.720 of Marxist like by default, you know, I that makes 194 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:08.159 me a quote right Hegelian as well. So that's I 195 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.720 realized I was long winded, But it's it's a dense topic. No, 196 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:12.320 not at all. 197 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:14.360 So for the sake of clarity, do you think you 198 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.799 could do kind of like a quick kind of verbal 199 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:21.600 ven diagram of right and left wing Hegelians? So for instance, 200 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.320 like what is what do they share and where do 201 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:26.600 they I guess differ? I think I I obviously I 202 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.639 could tell in the last UH, I guess your your 203 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:31.720 your last kind of series of statements, but it might 204 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:34.120 be easier to just kind of get it out explicitly 205 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:36.159 and kind of quickly so people can follow along. 206 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.399 If that makes sense. Yeah, well, I mean the left 207 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:42.399 he Gaelians if we're talking about Marxist again, you know, 208 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:46.039 their their their their view is is that the prime 209 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:50.480 the primary move on in history is is UH is 210 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:55.639 productive force determinism Okay, literally a material processes and man's 211 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:59.879 relationship to these processes, you know, in the ongoing and 212 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:03.080 then the ongoing struggle to you know, kind of release 213 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.000 man from labor and UH the subsequent interplay you know 214 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:12.639 between UH owners and wavers and you know, UH and 215 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.600 and and label and labor and capital itself and how 216 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:20.480 technology impacts these things. That that is literally you know 217 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:27.519 the what what what what facilitates the historical process? Okay? 218 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:33.039 In contrast, you know, right Hegelians or traditional Hegelians, you know, 219 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:37.480 again like they they they believe that uh, you know, 220 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:42.200 they believe very very fundamentally in the absolute. You know, 221 00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:47.559 they believe that processes of mind are uh is the 222 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:49.840 is you know, is the prime move on in history 223 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:56.519 and the dialectical processes intrinsic to mind in uh in 224 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:03.279 service of and uh in relationship to the ideal is 225 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:09.200 what is? What is what you know, facilitates the historical 226 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:14.679 process and and is what allows man to to comprehend 227 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:19.559 it conceptually. Okay, so these are these are these are 228 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:24.159 radically opposing viewpoints. And again I it's uh, it's a 229 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:29.399 peculiar kind of fact of of history and and kind 230 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:34.799 of uh of a of the limits of language. Again 231 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:40.919 that that that that Marxists uh became identified as you know, 232 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:46.759 left Hegelians when reality they basically reject Heyl's paradigm outright. 233 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:51.519 And you know, again, like I said, the initial the 234 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:54.759 initial kind of descent dissenter Hegelians of the left were 235 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:58.320 were people like David Strauss, and you know, people who 236 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:01.639 people who were God centric in a way, because most 237 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.840 of them are theologians, including Strauss himself, that's obviously what 238 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:09.240 he's known for. But they they had a very critical 239 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:15.159 view of of reference to the to the absolute in 240 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:22.360 uh in uh in historical processes because they believe that 241 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:24.840 it was you know, just a way again of of 242 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.279 kind of the way of winning arguments for like, a 243 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:33.919 better way to describe it without without having to resort to, 244 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:40.039 you know, the rigorous process of uh of uh truly 245 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:43.879 rationalizing their perspective. That's not to say they went quite 246 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:46.519 as far as these like Charlatan's, like Carl Popper or 247 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.360 something who you know, invoked the scientific method as some 248 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:54.840 kind of as is, some kind of end all process 249 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.679 by which history can be interpreted and you know, of 250 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:00.320 of which like you know, values must be subject if 251 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:02.919 they were to be if they were to be accepted 252 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.440 as correct or valid. I mean it's I was nothing 253 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:08.279 like that, nothing crankish, but it it did very much 254 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:12.759 owe to you know, kind of the the the bias 255 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.919 towards materialism of the of the nineteenth century. And I 256 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.120 mean that can't be that can't be denied. So I 257 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.440 mean that's in very basic terms, that's the way to 258 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:25.519 that's the way to understand it. 259 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:29.200 It's odd because I noticed that kind of like that 260 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:34.720 thread of left wing Hegelianism and kind of the conversation 261 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:36.399 of people you'd even think who were be kind of 262 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:37.039 opposed to it. 263 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:37.320 Right. 264 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:40.279 So, actually, just a few hours before I typed this 265 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:43.919 up for you, I was I was coming back from 266 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:46.960 you know, the backwoods of northern Maine, you know where 267 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.799 I I have a friend up there, and I ended 268 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:53.399 up you know, taking a variety of you know, planes, trains, 269 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.840 and then I drove the last few hours with a 270 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.080 friend and uh, it was interesting because I talked with 271 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.480 her and she's a you know, a similar confessional history 272 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:03.960 to you and I, but it's kind of been absorbed 273 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:08.400 into like the the d C laptop class, right, And 274 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:10.920 so it's odd because we were talking and the topic 275 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:16.200 of historiography came up, and she was, despite being you know, 276 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:17.759 you know, I'm a kind of a Calvinist tradition, was 277 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:22.920 absolutely and totally convinced that essentially the world operated purely 278 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:25.480 along the lines of you know, dialectical materialism. And I 279 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.960 was kind of just I was a little bit shocked 280 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:30.240 by that, not because I hadn't heard the ideas before, right, 281 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.920 but just it was a very odd I guess like 282 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.319 it was very an odd preconception for someone to have, 283 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:38.200 you know, with a certain background and with a certain 284 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:41.599 set of ideas. And to me it's it's odd too, 285 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:44.839 because on one hand, it's like it's like what you said, right, Like, 286 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:49.119 on one hand, Hegel is you know, kind of dense 287 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:51.319 and difficult to read, and not many people actually like 288 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.000 engage with him directly. But at the same time, he 289 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:56.359 does kind of form the bedrock of so much of 290 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:58.440 kind of second order political discussion. 291 00:17:58.720 --> 00:17:59.839 I think that it makes any sense. 292 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:02.759 And so it's interesting to me because I had been 293 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:04.880 and maybe this is being raised by kind of like 294 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:09.400 you know, baby Boom or neo con types, you know 295 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:13.000 very much. It was like, oh, like Hegel's what marxistory, 296 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.400 you know, Like you don't you don't like Hegel. You're 297 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.440 not supposed to read Hegel because Hegelianism is essentially like 298 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:24.839 the bedrock of like Pinko comedies, right, and so sorry, carry. 299 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:29.119 On, No, it's it's very weird, and I I think 300 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:32.279 part of that's a purposeful misunderstanding by some people because 301 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.079 again they've got content for continental philosophy because they view 302 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.680 it as they view it as a at worst, like 303 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:44.319 a kind of a kind of primitive mysticism. And at best, 304 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:46.680 they you know, they view it as kind of intellectual 305 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:50.599 gobbly book. I mean, both of which are profoundly ignorant viewpoints. 306 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:53.759 But I mean, amer there isn't an an intellectual strain 307 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:55.720 in America, like not not in the way that like 308 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:58.920 these kinds of like Midwood npr Leans was claim, you 309 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:02.480 know who, because like they're they're the most they're the 310 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:07.160 most uh kind of pitiable like strivers, like Midwoods of all. 311 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:10.400 But you know, they fancy themselves as educated. But I 312 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:16.200 mean genuinely if uh, Americans really don't you know, even 313 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:18.440 like a lot of like even like a lot of 314 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:20.960 churchmen I respect, like in my own confessional heritage. You know, 315 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.519 they'll read institutes the Christian religion, you know, and uh, 316 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:28.440 they'll Readerristotle and they'll read the Scripture obviously, but beyond that, 317 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:33.160 they they don't they don't really read philosophy. And you know, 318 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:36.799 you get guys to uh, you know, you get guys 319 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:42.920 like I are theorists and things, uh and uh and 320 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:47.240 kind of political sociologists and things. I realized these days 321 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:48.920 those disciplines are like a joke in terms of the 322 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.559 people they attract, but during the Cold War they were not. 323 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.119 And you still have some You still have some guys 324 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:58.559 who are pretty prominently situated in those disciplines, who are 325 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.039 serious people, but you know, they they kind of purposely 326 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.480 avoid uh, reference to Kana philosophy because it's viewed as 327 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.680 like this full power or like something to be you know, 328 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:11.880 some something to be shunned, or at least, you know, 329 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:18.079 not not referred to within you know, within uh, within 330 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.279 the four corners of their of their research. So there's 331 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:24.319 that and uh and yeah, but I mean beyond that, 332 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.279 it's just it's just a strange thing that you know, 333 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.160 like I said that Hegil became so identified with the 334 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.599 left because I mean, again it's the I mean, this 335 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:36.640 is something that this itself is like a Hegelian process, 336 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.359 I mean, which just kind of fascinating. But you know, anybody, 337 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:41.960 I know that a lot of younger guys read Carl Schmidt, 338 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.960 and that's great, because Schmid's very important, Okay, and uh, 339 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:48.799 I think he's uh, particularly because I mean it's because 340 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.240 like I was a lawyer, I I've I've got a 341 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.559 bias for inductive reasoning. So Schmidt I find him kind 342 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.119 of relatable in conceptual terms. That's kind of the way 343 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.480 my mind work anyway, and attacking problems. But you know, 344 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:09.640 anybody who anybody who's read him extensively, particularly written almost 345 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:13.119 of the Earth, and you know, understands his kind of 346 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:17.480 scept of political theology and also as a deep understanding 347 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:20.240 of lebah than by Hobbes. You know, the relays. Again, 348 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.400 the relationship of Marx to Hagel was very, very very 349 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:28.079 much like the relationship of Schmidt to Hobbs. Okay, Schmidt 350 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:34.200 basically rejects all of Hobbes's ontological postulates and uh in 351 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.720 turns uh it turns it on his head. Yet he 352 00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:44.640 retains uh. He he retains and is totally in agreement 353 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:49.559 with you know, Hobbes's view of uh, of whatsoever and 354 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:53.319 authority represents, particularly in symbolic psychological terms. It's really kind 355 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:58.839 of fascinating. Like obviously, Schmidt was a far more he 356 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:01.880 was a far more rigorous thing than Karl Marx and 357 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:03.880 Mars marsh is a weird thinker. That's part of it. 358 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:05.559 And so the angles, I think angles is a bit 359 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:10.720 more discipline. But these guys weren't They were not economists, 360 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:13.680 and Marxism is not economics. That's why, I mean, obviously 361 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.680 don't really find them anymore other than these some some 362 00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:19.519 like weird fossils. It probably Berkeley or whatever. But you know, 363 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:22.319 throughout the entirety of the Cold War, you know, you 364 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.079 had in economics departments at big universities, you had like 365 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.400 and Marxist economists, Like Marxism is not economics. It's this 366 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:34.440 weird theory of uh. It's it's this weird sociological theory, 367 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.519 and it's this uh and this kind of brand theory 368 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.000 of reductionist theory of history. You know that that that 369 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.119 that that relies upon postulates that that are kind of 370 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.480 self referencing and uh, a kind of a kind of 371 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:53.119 speculative deduction, you know, about the human condition and the 372 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:57.039 modern age. But it's just the claim that it's the 373 00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:00.000 claim that it's some kind of like economic methodology is 374 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:01.759 absurd because it's not at all. 375 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.759 Well, I very much agree with you. And it's interesting, 376 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.160 right because being a younger guy kind of interested in 377 00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:10.119 these things, you're kind of drinking from a fire hose, 378 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:11.920 right Like, in order to kind of catch up to 379 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.680 the conversation, you have to read quite a lot pretty quickly, 380 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:20.880 and It's interesting because Marxists describe themselves as kind of, 381 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.200 like you said, like economic and scientific, and look like 382 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:26.160 I have a certain amount of econ background. I don't 383 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:29.000 stay up at night thinking about econ, but you know, 384 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:32.240 I've read a decent amount of it, sure and fair enough. 385 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:35.319 Maybe econ isn't a true hard science. That's a separate conversation. 386 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.319 But you read Marx and it's it's very much like 387 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.839 you said. You know, it's kind of this like self referential, 388 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.160 like I guess, like not like logic puzzle, but kind 389 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.400 of like thought experiment. You know, that seems to be 390 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:51.240 particularly attractive to a certain type of person. And that 391 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:53.359 doesn't mean that there's nothing in Marx that Marx was like, 392 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.720 you know, a mouth breathing moron, you know, but it 393 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.240 is nowhere near as I guess like scientific or I 394 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.799 guess like not rationalistic, but I guess like uh, experimental, 395 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:05.559 as it kind of presents itself. 396 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:08.119 Well yeah, and then itself is an conceptual bias. It's 397 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.880 like it's like Carrie Molis said, and I think about 398 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.720 carry Malis a lot, owing of course to the COVID 399 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:19.000 situation and other things, But you know, like Molas pointed 400 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:22.480 out like it's you know, the one of the big 401 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:26.759 uh of the big lies or big blind spots rather 402 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.920 uh in some people's cases, of the nint than twentieth 403 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.559 centuries with this idea that like that that quote unquote 404 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:36.680 science is something you believe in or that or that 405 00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:39.400 it's like or that it's this uh or there's this 406 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.440 value leading perspective, or that you know, it's it's some 407 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:47.880 kind of like absolute means of revealing some some sort 408 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.359 of higher truth, like all sciences is a methodology. It's 409 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:54.119 not something you believe in, you know, like you don't. 410 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.839 It's like saying you like believe in metallurgy or something, 411 00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:00.440 you know, like it all it's this idea. That's one 412 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:02.119 of the things. That's one of the reasons why like 413 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.559 when I hear these people, whether it's these bizarre freaks 414 00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:08.319 in public life or whether it's kind of Midwain and 415 00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:12.759 Foltament consumers, you're talking about quote trust the science, It's like, 416 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:16.039 that's that's kind of that, that's kind of that, that's 417 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:19.160 kind of cranked nineteenth century thinking, like you won't think 418 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.200 that way anymore, you know, you're not really part of 419 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:23.759 the conversation if as it were if you think in 420 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:27.039 those terms, And that's that's one of the reasons. Yeah, 421 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:31.839 that that's one of the reason is Marxism, uh and 422 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:36.559 and Leninism later on, even until the nineteen eighties, it 423 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.880 was senreally obsessed with talking about you know how it's 424 00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:43.039 postulates are quote scientific, I mean, like even if that 425 00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:46.119 was the case, Like, so what I mean, like I 426 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.519 you know, I that that means nothing, you know, like 427 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.000 unless unless your goal is like build a bridge or 428 00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:56.960 to like you know, fire a you know, or invent gunpowder, 429 00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:58.960 or like make an automobile run, or like launch a 430 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:02.319 rocket into space. Like it means it means nothing to 431 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.839 me if you're quote involking a science, you know, like, 432 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:06.319 I mean, what does that even mean? Like in a 433 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:10.720 political in political ethical capacity, you know, like nobody, nobody 434 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:11.359 can explain that. 435 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:14.839 Well, it's actually it's part of the reason that I 436 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:18.519 have a and I realized this doesn't mean much coming 437 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:20.920 from a you know, an anonymous twenty three year old 438 00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.400 on the internet, but I kind of have an objection 439 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:27.359 with the idea of political science for that reason. Yeah, right, 440 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.960 the ruling men is not necessarily scientific in the same 441 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:33.400 way that ruling a bridge is right, Like, Okay, there 442 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.079 are some societies that are better than. 443 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.680 Others on certain objective factors. 444 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:38.839 But the idea that like, oh well, if we just 445 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.559 add you know, three percent of this or three percent 446 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:44.759 of that, we will increase kind of like happiness by 447 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:47.279 a factor of five. Something done like that. And the 448 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:49.720 reason I say this is because I have a somewhat 449 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.039 strained relationship with a with a friend of mine who 450 00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:56.559 is kind of a like a CIA or not a CIA. 451 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.400 He's a State Department spook, essentially political scientist, and it's 452 00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:04.079 always interesting talking to him because he will quite often 453 00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:05.759 and I say this as someone like this is not 454 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:08.680 a moral claim on his personal character. It's just kind 455 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.000 of a claim on how he talks, right, but if 456 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.359 it will oftentimes like refer to things like human rights 457 00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:16.960 and kind of objective terms like the idea that you 458 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.240 can kind of measure something is is like odd and 459 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.440 subjective as that. And don't get me wrong, like if 460 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.599 you gave me a choice between living in America and 461 00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:26.559 you know, North Korea, that's a pretty easy choice and 462 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.519 maybe you can say, okay, that's human rights. 463 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:29.720 So I'm not trying to be. 464 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:31.799 Some as reductive as that, but it is odd this 465 00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.279 idea that like, well we can kind of use subjective 466 00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:38.480 measurements and kind of turn these into numbers and plug 467 00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:39.559 them into spreadsheets. 468 00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:42.279 Well, it's also you can't have it both ways, like 469 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:46.599 quote human rights only. Yes, it's a natural law claim. 470 00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:50.400 But the people who advance, who invoke it and aimed 471 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.880 to advance it, reject natural law postulates, you know. So 472 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.960 it's like, yeah, so it's like what are you talking about? 473 00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:57.640 You know, like what what does it quote? 474 00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:57.839 Right? 475 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:00.559 Then? You know, like it doesn't it doesn't make any sense, 476 00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:04.759 you know, and it and yeah, this idea that uh, 477 00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:08.920 I agree with Douglas McGregor that the and other I mean, 478 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.160 I I agree with friend is Yagi frankly, but I 479 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:14.960 mean in terms of in terms of people who are uh, 480 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.039 in terms of contemporary polemicists, you know, who have been 481 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.480 insinuated into the regime and now are critical of it. 482 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.759 It's not it's not some crank idea or conspiratorial to 483 00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:30.319 point out that the regime today, it's it always more 484 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:32.720 to people like Trotzky, and then it does John Locke 485 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.880 or Thomas Payne. Yeah, and especially the state the state 486 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.680 of art is positively deranged. You know, like there really 487 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:42.279 is these kind of it's it's these people who who 488 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:47.039 come off like these kinds of diluted, disengaged at baratrics 489 00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:48.960 in the final days of the Soviet Union, who are 490 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.319 just like invoking this kind of gobbled book language that 491 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.880 didn't move anybody anymore, and that seemed like outdated even 492 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.359 even as they were uttering it, you know, like uh 493 00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:00.720 like sitting down and saying like, you know, you're gonna 494 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.960 slate this society for annihilation and you're gonna sanction these people, 495 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.519 and you're gonna do this, and you're gonna move this 496 00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:09.599 population around. And it's like, you know, because quote unquote, 497 00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:12.839 you know, human rights demand it, and you know, we're 498 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:17.440 progressing towards some towards some telluric utopia that is gonna 499 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:20.119 be you know, facilitated once we make men more governable 500 00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:23.200 and suited to government like that. That's a bizarre idea 501 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.880 in all kinds of ways and doesn't really make any sense, 502 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.839 But it's also that's that's that's that's an idea that 503 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.920 belongs to nineteen twenty. You know, it's a century out 504 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:33.720 of date, you know, and that's what the reasons this 505 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.200 people sound so weird and like I pointed out to 506 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.319 these types before I spend some time in Washington, d C. 507 00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.960 You know, around like two thousand and five, and that 508 00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.599 was kind of at the zenith of the second sort 509 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.319 of neocon renaissance. I point this out to people like 510 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.480 over cocktails, so we're very insinuating in that culture. And 511 00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:54.839 it's like it didn't compute, Like it give me some 512 00:29:54.920 --> 00:29:57.759 kind of like moronic look, pause, and then like keep going. 513 00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:01.319 You know, it's like you can't. It's like in cool 514 00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:03.559 and look, but some men you just can't reach. Like 515 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:05.400 I'm not just sing your friend is like this. I mean, 516 00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.160 I speculate the's a lot more as a lot more depth. 517 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.079 Otherwise somebody like you wouldn't associate with them. But but yeah, 518 00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.400 it's true. It's bit's bizarre. It's like there's not it's uh, 519 00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:16.240 it's like these people have been kind of trained. They're 520 00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:19.279 kind of like trained seal they're kind of like trained parrots, 521 00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:21.799 but they're not they don't have any they don't have 522 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:24.519 any meaningful understanding of the words that they utter. You know, 523 00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:27.000 it's like these things aren't even platitudes, you know, it's 524 00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:30.400 like they don't they couldn't. They couldn't. They're not capable 525 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:32.920 of unpacking what the actual meaning is of these things. 526 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:35.000 You know. It's just they've kind of committed it to 527 00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:38.319 memory and and by repeating it over and over, you know, 528 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.359 like a script like that's that's kinda helped them get 529 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.319 insinuated into whatever sort of career role they want. And 530 00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:47.680 it's really that simple and that simple minded, I think. 531 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:50.640 Well, and to me, I feel like there's few better, 532 00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:53.519 like crystallized versions of this. This is one of those famous, 533 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:55.279 at least I think, like kind of famous moment in 534 00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:58.880 American politics, right, And it's that interview of Madison Albright 535 00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.680 and what five six or the reporter says, well, okay, 536 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:05.920 is it true that you know, half a million Iraqi 537 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.039 children died. She's like, oh, yeah, well it is. 538 00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:10.920 And the reporter asks was it worth it? 539 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.480 And she just stone cold looks in the care and says, yes, 540 00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:15.839 it was worth it, you know, And that's that's kind 541 00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.599 of psychotic, right. The idea that you're in the pursuit 542 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.200 of human rights, which is, you know, like we've said before, 543 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.119 is kind of ill defined, but you would assume that 544 00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:27.799 child murder is probably something a human rights centric regime 545 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:29.319 would not continence, right. 546 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:32.319 No, it's also yeah, and it's also too. I mean 547 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:36.599 what I will say about the Soviet Union was strange 548 00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:38.400 in all kinds of ways. But one of the reasons 549 00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.519 it was dangerous. Like I'm not some I was I'm 550 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.200 not some arch cold warrior type, you know, in terms 551 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.119 of my historical respective I'm not sitting here something like 552 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.079 oh you know, Ivan was so dangerous. But I mean 553 00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:52.880 the Soviet Union was. It was quite. It was a 554 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.799 highly lethal superpower and the tremendous power projects and capability. 555 00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:02.799 But even it's it's the apparatriics who are situated in 556 00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:08.079 in in in in powerful roles. They were fundamentally serious guys, 557 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:13.720 and there was a remarkable consistency to them. I mean, yeah, okay, 558 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.680 they're Marcist. Leninism is nonsense and it's characterized by gobbledy 559 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:20.200 doesn't really mean anything. But they had a very very 560 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:23.240 deep understanding of their own perspective. Like in addition to 561 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.400 it being just like a very bad person. To your point, 562 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:27.759 Madelan Albright was was like an she was like a 563 00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.920 fucking moron, you know, Like these people are like they 564 00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:36.480 it's incredible. They're the kind of obtuse, ignorance of these people, 565 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:39.880 you know, like somebody like her, like like to your point, 566 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:41.599 Like she didn't even she didn't even realize like what's 567 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:43.359 wrong with that statement? Like I don't I don't even 568 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:45.279 mean like an ethical moral terms. I mean, she didn't 569 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.920 even realize like what the inconsistency is. It's like, you know, 570 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:49.920 it's like you said, it's like so you so you 571 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.480 annihilated half a million people, you know, many of whom 572 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.960 were minor children and the elderly to advance you know, 573 00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.279 human rights and we beat suffering. They're like not and 574 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.799 be like oh yes, of course, like doesn't compute, like 575 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.880 what's wrong with that? You know? That's and you know, 576 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:06.920 I've made the point before. I'm sure people get tired 577 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:08.279 of it because it seems like I'm just like some 578 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:11.160 like angry old guy like beating it at a horse. 579 00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:15.440 But the agree to with the government became totally bizarre, crazy, 580 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.720 freakish and clownish, like very suddenly, and like in nine 581 00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:23.359 ninety three, it was jarring, you know, and it's like I, 582 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:25.400 I mean, I guess I was always waiting in the wings, 583 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:28.880 and it was just necessity that dictated that you know 584 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:32.640 you have, uh, you have a serious regime in place, 585 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:35.599 because when when there was when there truly was a 586 00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:40.119 possibility of armageddon that was kind of always uh in 587 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:44.359 in the wings, and about every decade, you know, uh, 588 00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:49.519 strategic conditions kind of broke dout or the the uh 589 00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.400 kind of the the balance of uh the kind of 590 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:57.440 containing balance broke down, and about every decade you know, 591 00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:01.559 uh like fifty three, sixty two, seventy three, and eighty three, 592 00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:04.240 you know, and uh and the world really did come 593 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:07.799 close uh to nuclear war. I mean you can't, you can't. 594 00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:10.960 You can't have literal clowns like battling Ober eight and 595 00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:14.760 like you know, these piggy kind of the perverts like 596 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:18.400 like Bill Clinton and in executive roles if if you know, 597 00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:23.760 you're if at any moment, uh, you know, the civilization 598 00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:28.119 might be under threat owing to nuclear in new general 599 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:32.079 nuclear war. So I I I it makes sense that 600 00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:35.760 that happened, because you know, the the regime is that 601 00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:38.280 it existed since nineteen thirty three essentially put itself out 602 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.840 of business. Okay, But the rapidity with which these fools 603 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:47.119 were were kind of catapulted into into prominent roles like 604 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.039 I found it shocking then, and I still kind of 605 00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:55.400 find it surprising. But yeah, the uh it's particularly and 606 00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:58.679 that's what's weird, I mean, especially with the State Department. 607 00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:00.760 Is is the worst of I mean, the because the 608 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:03.840 kind of the most the most abjectly cretinus of all 609 00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:07.400 the of any kind of branch of the regime as 610 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:13.079 far as I can tell. But uh, it's the weird disconnect, 611 00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.159 is that. I mean, like, like I pointed out, if 612 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:20.159 people uh you know, for better or worse, and people's 613 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.639 motivations certainly not pure and arguing on neither side of 614 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:30.679 this issue. But until uh, until the Clinton administration, there 615 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:34.360 was there there was a real tension between uh you know, 616 00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:38.320 people uh in the established may to oppose military action 617 00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:41.079 kind of categorically you know, and people at like a 618 00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:47.320 hoggish perspective after the Cold War. I mean, part of 619 00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:50.000 this was because the military establishment like had to find 620 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.679 a reason to continue to exist, you know, so they 621 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.880 kind of they kind of availed themselves under Clinton. Is 622 00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:58.880 like the the kind of the kind of corpse the 623 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:01.760 kind of corpse menu facts, your division of woke capital 624 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:05.480 as at were. But the degree to which these people, 625 00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:10.360 the degree of which uh, there the degree to these 626 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.000 like regime oyal people think nothing of the fact, just 627 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:17.000 kind of like endless, unprovoked military violence against the world's populations. 628 00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:20.320 It's totally insane and said to your point, it's sociopathic, 629 00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:25.760 you know, like uh, these people, uh, they'll they'll they'll 630 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.559 fly in like trembling rages if you suggest that, you know, 631 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:31.480 maybe like man on man, sodomy is not you know, 632 00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:35.760 like a sacrament, but uh they think nothing of yeah, 633 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.800 like killing half a million kids or like you know, 634 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:42.880 uh they're slating you know, the Russian Federation and as people 635 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:48.440 for destruction or uh you know, or are waging is 636 00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:51.440 like a perennial war on on darhl Islam, you know, 637 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:57.119 owing to some uh owing to some u uncraditional fealty 638 00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:01.000 to uh a Zionist apartheid state. Like it's is totally insane. 639 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:04.079 And but I mean again, it's like you Michael Jones 640 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.480 is always saying, you know, it's moralities and all or 641 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:10.719 nothing proposition. You can't like abandon reason and say like, oh, 642 00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:13.159 you know, like abortion is great, like you know, sodomy's 643 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:15.360 a sacrament, you know, and and embrace kind all these 644 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.119 like sociopathic h perspectives. But then retain some kind of 645 00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:22.760 like you know, respect for human life or or some 646 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.960 sort of h or some sort of aversion to you know, 647 00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:28.880 murdering your fellow man for you know, no good reason. 648 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:31.599 So I didn't mean to turn that into a polemical rant. 649 00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.280 But no, no, not at all. 650 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:37.400 And it's interesting to me because and this kind of 651 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.360 neatly ties back in with our discussion like why I 652 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.960 kind of reject like the the hyper materialist view of history. 653 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:48.079 And you see this coming both from kind of traditional 654 00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:50.400 left wingers and also from a lot of people and 655 00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:53.679 kind of like the libertarian sphere, you know, where a 656 00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:55.599 lot of guys on our side of things kind of 657 00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:58.599 pass through it. Yeah, but it's this idea that you 658 00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.840 kind of look around at. Let's just say them, you know. 659 00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:03.679 Whoever them is. 660 00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:05.199 You can kind of plug in your own to them, 661 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.920 and you're like, well, okay, like why are they doing this? 662 00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:11.719 You know, cause there's certain things that just don't make sense. 663 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:16.039 And if your perspective is limited to pure materialism, right, 664 00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:19.079 like people in power do what they do to increase 665 00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.679 their own I guess, like monetary gain, you kind of 666 00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:26.119 come up a little bit short. You're like, well, okay, why, 667 00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:28.000 you know, because like people like Bill Gates, right, like 668 00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:29.920 he gives away a lot of money, and he has 669 00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:31.719 more money than he can really spend, but why does 670 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:35.280 he keep doing things? It's probably not to make more money, 671 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:36.800 you know. And you kind of come around to, well, 672 00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:41.960 they must be possessed, either ideologically or maybe like on 673 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.719 some other level. Right, But there really is this kind 674 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:46.719 of like I don't know what to describe it, but 675 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:53.760 this like kind of disturbing ideological like genocidal surety, right, 676 00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:57.519 this idea that like I know exactly how to remake man, 677 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:00.199 you know, to create a new, a new time type 678 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.719 of person who can be kind of governed better. And 679 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.039 if it's five hundred thousand children, if it's you know, 680 00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.000 the destruction of the world economy, it's, well it doesn't matter, right, 681 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.239 We'll get there eventually. And to me, I don't know 682 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:12.800 what you call that, but I see it in I 683 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.639 guess a lot of kind of like the the upper 684 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:18.280 class and like the striving class now and maybe it's 685 00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:20.840 a human constant. I'm not sure, but it does seem 686 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:24.360 very odd. And the way you describe the like, I guess, 687 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:29.159 like the the reorganizing of kind of like the US 688 00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:32.079 government along very like non serious lines. To me, it 689 00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.079 just at a certain level. I still have a hard 690 00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:37.960 time believing that you can be kind of ahead of 691 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:41.360 state and so disconnected from reality. But maybe that's a 692 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:42.119 little bit naive. 693 00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:47.039 Well, I mean, there's there, There is even the deep state, 694 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.480 isn't isn't just a you know, a kind of crazy 695 00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.559 Donald Trump concept or some talking point. I mean, it's 696 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.800 like a real thing, and it's and it's not even 697 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.480 it's not even necessarily always insidious. I mean, it's it's 698 00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:02.920 it's just a function of the managerial regime. You know, 699 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:07.440 you can't you can't have any modern government, you know, 700 00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:11.880 from I mean from the twentieth century onward. Really you 701 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:17.840 know that you can't, like government can't function without without 702 00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:23.039 without discrete cadres of experts. And there's also choke points 703 00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:26.360 where the means the road in terms of functional policy, 704 00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:30.960 wherein you know, there's not it's just not possible for 705 00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:33.800 one man to be, you know, at the helm of 706 00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.840 these things, or or for some you know, or for 707 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.760 some quorum of elected official dumb you know, to you know, 708 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.039 to be to be directly to be directly managing these 709 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.480 these functions. I mean that that's just the way it is. 710 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:51.920 You know that it's a sociological and structural reality. So 711 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:57.119 I mean there's that, but it's also the uh, you know, 712 00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:58.559 if you're gonna have a if you're gonna have a 713 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:01.039 media driven culture, and if you're gonna if you're gonna 714 00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:03.960 be committed to this kind of bizarre social engineering project, 715 00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.719 you know, you're gonna you're gonna basically have like a 716 00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:10.639 two tiered kind of kind of elite You're gonna have 717 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:11.840 like the you know, you're gonna have kind of like 718 00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:15.159 the public relations department, you know, which is uh you know, 719 00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:17.400 which is the people who hold formal office, and you're 720 00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:20.679 gonna have like the actual function areas you know who 721 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:25.800 uh who uh who run the government. Yeah, I made 722 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:29.320 the point before that. I mean places like the Russian 723 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.400 Federation and be able to look at China, they're not 724 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:37.079 particularly free societies, they're not particularly well run societies in 725 00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:39.400 a lot of ways, but they are transparent. Like the 726 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:43.159 Russian Federation, there's not guys like Medvedev and mister Putin, 727 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.559 uh you know, behind the scenes kind of running the 728 00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:49.519 government while you have these like bizarre actors and and 729 00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:52.000 kind of like career pr guys like you know who 730 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:54.400 they pretend or like, you know, running the country, you know, 731 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:57.440 like only America and the uko's that and you know 732 00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:58.960 and kind of like some of the some of the 733 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:02.039 some of them were prominent use states. But even that 734 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:05.159 even uh, I mean, the Estalia Buonize Republic has no 735 00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:08.039 sovereignty because I mean, it's it's under proan occupation. But 736 00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:12.920 the German Chancellor is basically the head of government. You know, 737 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.079 it's not it's not that's not a fake or something, 738 00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:19.440 but so yeah, I mean it's it's there's that you're 739 00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:21.400 I mean that that's how things can continue to function. 740 00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:26.760 It's but it's also the uh, you know. A key 741 00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:28.920 thing to understand too, is I mean, like I said, 742 00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:34.239 there's a the uh, the Westphalian state is going to 743 00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:36.480 continue to exist for some time, although I believe it's 744 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:42.039 on its way out. But the government is structured since 745 00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:45.360 nineteen thirty three. I mean again, it's not it's not 746 00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:47.840 really tailored to do anything. I mean, it's tailor to 747 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:49.760 do two things. I mean, it's it's tailored to take 748 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:54.960 on these kinds of mass social engineering projects, which in 749 00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:58.360 the case of of this country, it's it's an incredibly 750 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:03.639 destructive uh prospects considering what its goals are, you know, 751 00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:10.360 which is basically to eradicate any organic uh sources of 752 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:15.840 identity and and and communitarian association and all of that. 753 00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.880 But uh, you know, the other thing is it's it's 754 00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:22.000 basically tailored to fight the Cold War and not much else, 755 00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:26.400 you know what I mean. That's that's uh, this touches 756 00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:30.320 and concerns everything, including this, the kind of recent COVID foolishness. 757 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.119 You know. Uh, it's you you've got this, You've got 758 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.880 you've got this, You've got this regime that no longer 759 00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:40.079 has a raise on debt for us. So it's it's 760 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:43.079 just perpetually kind of seeking out, you know, confabulating you know, 761 00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:48.679 quote unquote emergencies to manage you know, because uh, it's 762 00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.159 not uh it's not really structured to do anything else, 763 00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:53.159 you know. I mean, so that that's an important thing 764 00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:55.199 to consider too, in terms of the in terms of 765 00:43:55.239 --> 00:43:59.760 the kind of peculiar dysfunction of uh, of our regime 766 00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:04.039 or not ours, but the regime you know, within the 767 00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:09.599 the country in which we live. It's just uh, you know, 768 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:16.960 and it's I think, uh, there is a U in 769 00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:22.639 terms of why people abide it's it's it's violence figurative 770 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:28.360 and literal. I think, uh, you know, considering that Americans 771 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:33.880 aren't particularly intellectually inclined, and they don't, uh, they don't 772 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:40.519 seek out answers the historical uh questions in quagmires in 773 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:46.360 any meaningful way. I mean, well most people don't. But 774 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:48.800 what they do is, uh, you know one of the 775 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:53.000 reasons this but the people like bizarre about the Supreme Court. Yeah, 776 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:56.039 I made the point before that. Uh, it's it's bizarre 777 00:44:56.119 --> 00:44:58.760 that that Americans view as this kind of like rabbinic council, 778 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:01.960 you know, like I people really do, I mean in 779 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.599 will Carl Schmidt Agan, you know, they really do view government, 780 00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:08.519 particularly you know in America where you know, you're in 781 00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:12.320 this kind of where where the people are regime loyal 782 00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:17.639 or are these kind of you know, a historical dirastinated 783 00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:22.559 people who we don't really understand, uh, you know, the 784 00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:26.400 source of morals and authority and things they really do 785 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.159 vi the government, you know, is that it is their 786 00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:30.599 standing for God, you know, in the Supreme Court. Really 787 00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:32.639 is this kind of like high pre this kind of 788 00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:36.119 like you know, high Council of rabbis or priests or something, 789 00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:39.320 and you know it's declaratory judgments. You know, really are 790 00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:43.480 really do have the really give the force of like 791 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:46.000 a hadith or something, and you know, they really do 792 00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:49.000 view you know, government like government actions as as a 793 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:52.159 literally miraculous occurrence. And they really do view you know, 794 00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:56.880 like official to them as as uh as some there's 795 00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.760 some kind of entity like that the warrants you're you're 796 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.840 kind kind of like, uh like you're kind of like 797 00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:06.119 odd Fieldy. I mean, I that guy that's complete. It's 798 00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.360 a completely alien concept to me, like because I'm so 799 00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:12.800 great or so smart, but because I the idea that anybody, 800 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:18.920 even I mean I realized, like human psychology is highly symbolic. 801 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:23.440 But you know the fact that anybody could uh anybody 802 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:25.880 could look at the at that that the current regime 803 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:30.639 is anything other than this kind of bizarre failing, you know, 804 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.199 entirely worldly apparatus is kind of incredible to me. But 805 00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:38.239 I you know, then again, I'm not really I'm not 806 00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:41.519 really I'm not really a normal kind of citizen, you know, 807 00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:45.119 and I'm not really insinuated into things like that. You know, 808 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.000 It's not like I work a ninety five job or something, 809 00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:48.840 or like I got kids in public school. You know, 810 00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:51.519 it's not you know, it's not like I. You know, 811 00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:54.800 it's not like I, uh, I've got you know, some 812 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.880 sort of steak in in in the in the system, 813 00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:00.320 because I really know, you know. 814 00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:04.360 But it's to me, it reminds me of that I 815 00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:06.039 can't remember if this is in the first or the 816 00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.599 second conversation we had. Maybe it was the first one 817 00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.920 what about Protestantism, But it reminds me very much of 818 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:13.079 kind of the idea. 819 00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:15.000 That, you know, your relationship with. 820 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:19.719 God is your kind of template for your relationship with 821 00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:24.960 with authority. Right, And so I I realized when talking 822 00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:27.760 about a rabbinic council, this is somewhat a delicate conversation 823 00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:29.880 for you two. Yeah, right, But I think that we 824 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:34.960 can track the difference in kind of theological I guess, 825 00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.639 like persuasion, and also like relationship with government, you know. 826 00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:41.920 And I say this even as like someone who realizes 827 00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:44.159 that the vast majority of people probably don't think very 828 00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.800 much about theology at all, you know, even if they 829 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:51.039 kind of don't necessarily have an explicit relationship with God. 830 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.199 I think that there is kind of like a concept 831 00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.079 of your highest authority, they integrate with. 832 00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.320 No, that's what I That's what I meant. And when 833 00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:01.000 I when I say that, like when I said, all 834 00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:04.440 political authorities conceptually theological, Like I don't mean that you're 835 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.480 average man or a woman in the street. You know, 836 00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:09.960 is is thinking about this and in heavy terms like 837 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:14.199 I mean, in symbolic psychological terms, instinctively that's you know what, 838 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.840 that's where their mind goes, and that that's why they 839 00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:21.360 respond to official them the way that they do. That's 840 00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:24.000 a constant and that's uh, you know, like I said, 841 00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:28.159 that's kind of what Schmid took from Hobbs while turning 842 00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:32.280 his is ontological while turning his ontology like on his head. 843 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:36.960 But yeah, you're you're you're right. It's just uh, I mean, 844 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:40.320 it's just weird to It's just but I mean, I guess, 845 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:46.519 you know, in some ways, uh, in some the people 846 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.760 are pretty mailable. And you know, I think the kind 847 00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:54.320 of the kind of uh, the kind of mediocre middle 848 00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:58.360 you know, kind of as it were, they at least 849 00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:01.519 in this country is frankly, I only I don't what 850 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:05.920 the Germans would call mentioned material is not particularly quality here. 851 00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:10.000 You know, though those people can be those people can 852 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:14.159 be molded pretty pretty effectively, you know. But at the 853 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:18.719 same time, you know, uh, in my lifetime and in 854 00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:21.480 earnest in the last you know, ten years, you know, 855 00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:25.719 people the people who are not susceptible to that uh 856 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:28.519 sort of social engineering. You know, the people who are 857 00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:33.920 capable of of of of a sovereign existence, you know, 858 00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:37.119 the terms around younger talking about such things. You know, 859 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:41.760 a sovereign person. You know, people like us and like 860 00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:44.880 you and myself included, Like you know, people have become 861 00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:48.679 you know, radicalized, and they've you know, been motivated to 862 00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:51.760 seceed as much as possible from the regime and do 863 00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:54.199 whatever they can within the law, because we don't advocate 864 00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:57.199 breaking the law, you know, to expedite its demise. And 865 00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:00.559 uh that means that that mean is that the kind 866 00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:04.079 of uh, the kind of racial immune system, if you will, 867 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:08.599 is like still intact, okay, because in America you're never 868 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:10.840 gonna you're never gonna get some raw majority of people 869 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:15.800 who you know, who who who respond in in in 870 00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:20.880 healthy terms like spiritually and ethically, I mean to uh, 871 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:26.639 you know, to uh two to uh you know, evil 872 00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:31.920 and overreached by official them. You're just not you know it. Uh, 873 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:37.760 you've got uh, you've got mostly a nation you're not. Yeah, 874 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.039 you got mostly the country natural slaves and you know, 875 00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:42.280 people who in spiritual terms are a bunch of frightened 876 00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:47.760 old women. I mean but and I mean again, like 877 00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:50.559 in in pretty much every society, Like like I said, 878 00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:54.280 there's kind of like a mediocre middle But I think 879 00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:58.159 it's characteristic of the late modern age more than and 880 00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:00.440 it's not it's not some universal constant, like I don't 881 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:03.840 believe that. I don't believe in Boric Athens like that 882 00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:06.480 was the case. I know in I know that in Uh, 883 00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:08.960 I know that in the Kingdom of Prussia, things weren't 884 00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:14.800 like that. And I don't believe that. You know, like 885 00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:18.360 Napoleon and Cromwell and Muhammad, they you know, they they 886 00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:25.000 certainly had quality human material to draw upon in relative terms. 887 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:30.000 So it's interesting you bring up you bring up natural slaves, right, 888 00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:32.320 which there there's a certain amount of Aristotle in that, right, 889 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:34.519 But yeah, to me, it's there's kind of one of 890 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:39.039 the core lies of modernity, right, is essentially that the 891 00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:42.400 liberation will make men great, right, they know, if we 892 00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:44.840 could just you know, cast off the social bonds, you know, 893 00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:47.280 kind of like cast off what you owe and what 894 00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:49.760 you're owed, you know, like we will, we will essentially 895 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:50.880 transcend kind. 896 00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:53.480 Of like the limits of humanity, right. 897 00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:55.480 And I feel like what we've seen, especially in the 898 00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:57.880 twenty first century and likely you know just as well 899 00:51:57.880 --> 00:51:59.719 in the twentieth, right, is that that's it. That is 900 00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:03.000 funn mentally a lie. Right, Like from a certain perspective, 901 00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:05.280 you know, you and I have have more options than 902 00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.320 almost any other person on the planet, right, Like you 903 00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:09.760 could from a certain level, you could consume as much 904 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:11.599 as you want. You know, you could do things that 905 00:52:11.599 --> 00:52:13.400 you would have been thrown in jail for, you know, 906 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:16.360 even thirty five years ago, right with that next to 907 00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:18.880 no consequences, you know, at least legal consequences. 908 00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:19.199 Right. 909 00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:23.320 But at the same we've we've we've created this this 910 00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:28.280 population that's essentially stuck in this like bizarre public ritual 911 00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:33.239 of essentially having some like horrible figure dangled in front 912 00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:36.960 of your face, you know, like Trump putin you know, 913 00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:40.440 Kyle Rittenhouse and then being assured like, oh, but you're safe, 914 00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.320 We've got you, you know, like the Master essentially will 915 00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:45.880 protect you from the bad thing, you know, And it's 916 00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:49.360 this weird bizarre like slavish ritual that you see just 917 00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:51.920 every three months, repeat over and over again. 918 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.199 Well yeah, and that's why, like that's that's one of 919 00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:58.239 the things that's there's all kinds of dishonest. First of all, 920 00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:00.599 it makes makes a no sense in this country house 921 00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:04.000 just just just arbitrarily, like slavery is declared to be 922 00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:06.639 the most evil thing ever to exist. Yeah, that's like 923 00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:10.760 a totally random thing to focus on, you know, Like, uh, 924 00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:13.079 they'd be like they'd be like a five hundred years 925 00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:15.960 from now. Uh, you know, like some government and the 926 00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:19.840 orient just like declaring that, you know, abortion on demand 927 00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:21.760 with the most evil thing ever to exist. Like don't 928 00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:23.480 get me wrong, it isn't moral evil, but it's like 929 00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:25.719 how random would it be? Is just like focus on that, 930 00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:29.400 you know, I mean, slavery precedes a written language in 931 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.599 the fossil record. It's like, oh, okay, that's that's kind 932 00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:36.159 of a few like universal constants and human societies. You know. 933 00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.400 It's but it's like, you know, the reason the reason 934 00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:43.320 it endured is because again it is a natural state 935 00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:46.880 for a great many people. You know, this wasn't slavery 936 00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:48.920 was not this case. So these kinds of like robust, 937 00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:52.880 uh specimens like Spartacus, like being like shackled against their 938 00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:55.559 will and like at every opportunity them trying to you know, 939 00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:58.719 like uh you know, like break free of bondage. It 940 00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.360 was people where that was like there natural lot in part, 941 00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:03.719 you know, not just owning the social conditions and accident 942 00:54:03.719 --> 00:54:06.559 the fate like that's they weren't capable of much else, 943 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:10.360 you know, I mean like it uh one plus two, 944 00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:13.679 It's like, what what does America do with? Uh? One 945 00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:15.559 of the most protesque things about this country is that 946 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:19.360 it's like obsessed with prison and like it what what 947 00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:21.360 what does America do with a huge number of the 948 00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:25.039 of of of its population assented from channel slave? It 949 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:27.360 like locks them in prison. So it's like, so these 950 00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:29.559 guys are better off in prison than then than they 951 00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:32.519 were slaves. Like really like that. So it's not even 952 00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:34.599 as if the regime doesn't even live up to its 953 00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.280 own purported uh you know values in terms of what 954 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:40.400 are the attempts to what are the attempts to take 955 00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:42.280 on in terms of a medial measures, I mean not 956 00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:45.559 not that it should not not that such measures are 957 00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:49.679 necessary as in ethical terms obviously, but you understand what 958 00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:52.239 I mean it's uh. 959 00:54:51.880 --> 00:54:56.280 That reminds me so a mentor of mine who you 960 00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:59.000 two would have an interesting conversation because he's down his 961 00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:00.719 own revision this rabbit hole. 962 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:00.960 Right. 963 00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:03.920 But I went to go visit him, and at the 964 00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:06.039 time he was living in a small town in Louisiana, 965 00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:09.119 and there's a place called Donaldville, Louisiana, which is in 966 00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:13.519 no way notable whatsoever. We were driving through Donaldville and 967 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:16.679 we look around and he's talking and it's it's very 968 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:19.599 much kind of like the descendants of chattel slaves, right, Yeah, 969 00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:23.679 me saying like, legitimately, look at how these people live, right. 970 00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:29.440 The nice houses in town are old sharecropper houses, right, 971 00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:31.719 those are the nicest places in town. And he's like, 972 00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:36.079 look like, materially are these people bet are off? And 973 00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:37.719 so my point is not like if you gave me 974 00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:39.559 a you know, said like, all right, well, would you 975 00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:42.280 sign on as a chattel slave? As ridiculous as that 976 00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:44.360 is a concept, I wouldn't write. So I'm not saying 977 00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:46.800 like I'd be the first in line. But you look 978 00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:49.960 at it and you're like, well, okay, like from material perspectives, 979 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:52.239 like is this better? And I'm not even getting into 980 00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:54.079 the moral conditions, you know, because I would argue that 981 00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:57.320 those are sick like unarguably worse. But you look at 982 00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:00.719 that and like maybe maybe Aristotle is right, know, maybe 983 00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:03.519 there is just like a type of person who that 984 00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:05.679 is what they're kind of destined for. 985 00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:09.079 I guess, well, yeah, and that's why that's why the ideal. 986 00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:14.639 What I mean, that's a big contribution. I mean it's 987 00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:18.039 I mean, I'm not a big I'm not in it 988 00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:20.719 Chian at all, but and I think most of I 989 00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:24.360 think most of what's valuable in him was what a was, 990 00:56:25.480 --> 00:56:29.320 you know, stuff that was stated better by Chopenhauer, but 991 00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:36.480 Ernest Younger uh kind of perfected you know, uh, Nietzsche's 992 00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.280 idea of the sovereign individual who's neither master nor slave. 993 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:43.039 I mean that conceptually that's really important, you know, especially 994 00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:48.559 especially for the for the white race. That should be 995 00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:54.639 that should be the ideal in Hegelian terms, I mean, 996 00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:59.119 like that that should be viewed as what what we're 997 00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:05.320 doing is a is a is uh? You know that 998 00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:08.360 that that that's the ambition of our of our dialectic 999 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:13.960 as well as of our concrete activity, you know, and uh, 1000 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:17.280 in everything we do and make that point of people 1001 00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:20.320 again and again, and obviously we won't we won't be 1002 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.960 here to witness that. But you know what we do, 1003 00:57:23.320 --> 00:57:25.239 what we do get word of sentence, in my opinion, 1004 00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:29.440 includes our in in a very real sense, our our, 1005 00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:34.599 our memory and you know, uh, our racial memory. I 1006 00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:36.920 mean this, this, this pop I don't want to get 1007 00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:41.599 too esoteric and metaphysical, but that's why this pops up 1008 00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:43.920 again and again in my science fiction series, okay, because 1009 00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:48.280 I very much believe in this, and for the record, 1010 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:53.480 I believe this will be increasingly substantiated by by by 1011 00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:57.800 the scientific method as well too. But so my point 1012 00:57:57.880 --> 00:57:59.679 is that even people who don't particularly have a strong 1013 00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:02.840 story sense and nonetheless realize the correctness of our position. 1014 00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:09.360 You know, you you do perennially participate in history, you know, 1015 00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:13.559 before and after you're dead, Okay, and in basic terms, 1016 00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:18.639 and that's one of the reasons why you know, uh, 1017 00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:23.119 historical existence is so fundamentally important, okay, if you want 1018 00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:25.719 to look at it that way. So in the preservation 1019 00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:27.880 of historical existence. 1020 00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:30.679 So interesting you bring that up because I think it 1021 00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:34.360 was episode sixteen of my show. I talked with the 1022 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:36.800 guy named Heroic Well, and he's he's a really interesting guy. 1023 00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:41.000 He's an extremely uh, extremely knowledgeable kinesiologist. 1024 00:58:41.079 --> 00:58:42.480 I believe so exercise science. 1025 00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:45.320 And he was basically saying that science has effectively got 1026 00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:47.360 to that point with something as simple as kind of 1027 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:51.239 like your your your weight in your like physical capacity, 1028 00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:55.000 that that is both directly genetically linked in the sense 1029 00:58:55.039 --> 00:58:58.079 that like, okay, well, if if your dad's athletic, you're 1030 00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:00.719 you're more likely to be athletic. But it's also linked 1031 00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:03.960 on the level of essentially like the actions you particularly take. 1032 00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.079 So for instance, right doesn't matter if you have the 1033 00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:08.159 greatest genetics in the world, if you're a fat slob, 1034 00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:11.000 your children are more likely to be a fat slob, 1035 00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:13.039 even if they don't know you. So essentially kind of 1036 00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:15.239 like the actions you take. And obviously, like I'm not 1037 00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:17.679 a materialist. I think science and a lot of a 1038 00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:20.519 lot of situations just kind of like fake and boring. 1039 00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:22.480 But the point is that's a very kind of like 1040 00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:27.519 technical I guess, like a technical proof of what you 1041 00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:30.079 just said that is like materially true. 1042 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:35.639 Yeah, yeah, epigenetic memory that yeah, And I want to 1043 00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:39.320 I want to write more about that and a dedicated capacity, 1044 00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:43.920 but it you know, I I I came with you. 1045 00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:47.559 I think it was like Carl Jung and Jaspers. I'm 1046 00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:49.960 not any kind of Youngian, but there's some things that 1047 00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:55.000 he was onto that people once dismissed as is crankish 1048 00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:59.559 or crazy what that they've been revealed to have real merit. 1049 01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:04.159 All right, Thomas, welcome back to the Jay Burdens Show. 1050 01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:04.679 How are you doing. 1051 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:06.880 I'm okay, how are you? Thanks for hosting me. 1052 01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:08.960 I'm doing well. I'm glad to have you back. 1053 01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:13.400 So specifically, I brought you on the show for a reason, 1054 01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:15.480 and that's because I wanted to talk with you about 1055 01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:19.960 South Africa. I again, like I've said before, you know 1056 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:21.960 you have a wealth of knowledge, but I always like 1057 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:23.360 to talk to you about the things I haven't heard 1058 01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:25.280 you talk to other people about, at least you know, 1059 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:28.159 not in depth. So if you could kind of explain 1060 01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:32.599 why South Africa is, you know, a topic worthy of conversation. 1061 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:38.320 There's a few reasons. I mean, obviously it it featured 1062 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:40.880 kind of front and center in terms of people civic 1063 01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:46.000 consciousness in the nineteen eighties for a few reasons. So 1064 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:52.119 if aver became a lightning rod of for mobilization by 1065 01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:55.880 hostile elements, you know, people on the left, I mean, oh, 1066 01:00:55.920 --> 01:00:58.960 in Sundry, because it was viewed as kind of the 1067 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:01.880 distilled less and so of of you know, of an 1068 01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:06.239 evil government owing to the fact that it's its internal 1069 01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:12.639 situation was singularly characterized by race, you know, quite literally, 1070 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.639 and uh, it was a rare example of a post 1071 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:20.119 Nuremberg regime other than Israel. But Israel is a complicated 1072 01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:23.719 case for reasons that are kind of outside the scope 1073 01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:28.239 that we're talking about here. But other than Israel, South 1074 01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:32.360 Abrica was really the only kind of openly racialized society 1075 01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:36.920 as a matter of law, I mean, okay. South Ambrica 1076 01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:41.679 literally had a legal regime that defined that define what 1077 01:01:41.719 --> 01:01:44.440 we'd consider to be equal protection and do process rights 1078 01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:51.000 according to racial uh criteria, And there was this whole 1079 01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:53.960 byzantine geography of of you know that dealt with race 1080 01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:57.599 and how and how race was categorized and you know, 1081 01:01:58.239 --> 01:02:00.119 how it was done. So it was a combination and 1082 01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:05.960 of a biological criteria and physical morphology as well as 1083 01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:12.440 social criteria that we're uh that that relied upon, you know, 1084 01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:14.760 the testimony of people who knew the person any question, 1085 01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:17.679 which sounds really really strange, Okay, but we're getting a 1086 01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:19.320 little bit ahead of ourselves. But just what I'm talking 1087 01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:21.880 about is quite literally. In South Africa, there's like mixed 1088 01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:25.039 race people whose racial status as in terms of the 1089 01:02:25.159 --> 01:02:28.119 jury categories like could be changed. They could be changed 1090 01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:30.000 a matter of law from a black person to a 1091 01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:32.599 white person. You know, if you're if you, if you 1092 01:02:32.679 --> 01:02:34.800 if you quote acted white, you know, if you if 1093 01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:37.800 you were accepted in a white community like things like this. Okay, 1094 01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:40.400 this is this was very strange. And I'm not putting 1095 01:02:40.440 --> 01:02:45.360 shade on the on the Boor regime because I in 1096 01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:50.360 the epoch, uh, they were they were trying to they 1097 01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:52.159 were they were trying to craft a system that was 1098 01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:57.480 workable and that at least, you know, approach objectivity. But yeah, 1099 01:02:57.800 --> 01:03:00.159 it's a very strange way to approach race. Okay, by 1100 01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:03.800 like contemporary metrics, I don't mean, you know, like woke metrics, 1101 01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:05.440 I mean that you know, like you can just release 1102 01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:07.960 race and things like morphology and stuff. Okay, Like it's 1103 01:03:08.079 --> 01:03:11.039 it's far more deep in that, it's far more nuanced. 1104 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:14.639 There's a metaphysical aspect I don't mean and I don't 1105 01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:16.199 I don't I don't mean that in like an area 1106 01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:18.719 kind of you know, mystical way. But it's just not 1107 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:21.519 it's not something that lends itself to that kind of 1108 01:03:21.559 --> 01:03:25.159 inflexible categorization to JR. Because there's there's there's limitations still 1109 01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:28.079 a law. The law is not this. It's not this 1110 01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:30.400 tool that you know, has this kind of wide number 1111 01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:32.880 of it that that can just kind of identify and 1112 01:03:32.920 --> 01:03:36.119 solve social problems O cases not and so every it's 1113 01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:38.679 kind of a prime example of that. So they ever 1114 01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:43.039 go also, I mean, obviously, uh, you know the uh 1115 01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:48.159 as as uh Marxist as Marxist Leninism a traditional sort 1116 01:03:48.159 --> 01:03:53.360 in Europe, like lost momentum. The Third World, uh, you 1117 01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:55.920 know the quote colored world is it was called in 1118 01:03:56.039 --> 01:03:59.400 less delicate times became more important. I mean not just 1119 01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:02.760 because that was the primary battleground between uh, you know, 1120 01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:06.119 NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Politically, you know, who would 1121 01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:09.280 come to dominate the Third World, because you know, the uh, 1122 01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:13.719 the one of the things that ended the Cold War was, uh, 1123 01:04:14.199 --> 01:04:15.760 was that it came to be clear that, you know, 1124 01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:19.280 the the Third World was gonna model itself after the 1125 01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:23.079 after the West. Okay, but it took until the end 1126 01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:26.280 of the twentieth century from that process to fully develop. 1127 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:29.199 You know, people the world lay in literal ruins after 1128 01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:32.039 the Second World War, but also politically it wasn't clear 1129 01:04:32.199 --> 01:04:35.039 like what kind of form you know, the huge there's 1130 01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:37.840 about a third of the planet had been under uh 1131 01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:41.039 you know, direct European dominion, okay, and even that which 1132 01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:45.800 wasn't was still emulating those states that were so a 1133 01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:48.320 huge aspect of the Cold War. You know, once the 1134 01:04:48.400 --> 01:04:51.760 once kind of nuclear parody set in, especially was okay, 1135 01:04:51.880 --> 01:04:55.239 like you know, with which way is the Third World 1136 01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:59.880 going to go? So, you know, decolonization and you know 1137 01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:02.960 the quote anti imperialist movement, you know this this became 1138 01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:06.480 that this kind of aside from the geostrategic imperatives there 1139 01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:09.280 in it kind of it kind of insinuated new life 1140 01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:11.679 in into the in into the into the in the 1141 01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:16.360 revolutionary communism. But South Africa was a unique state because 1142 01:05:16.360 --> 01:05:19.280 South Africa had been a colonial state of the UK. 1143 01:05:19.880 --> 01:05:24.280 But before that it was it was settled by free Protestants. 1144 01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:26.400 Like quite literally, there's a reason why the Orange Free 1145 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:30.519 State was the Orange Free State. You know, it was 1146 01:05:30.840 --> 01:05:33.360 you know, it's not that the boors are are and 1147 01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:37.840 we're a population where where you know, Uh, Netherlands culture, 1148 01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:41.480 Dutch culture is the dominant like linguistic and cultural modality. 1149 01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:45.559 But uh, you know that there's English, there's Scots, there's Huguenots. 1150 01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:48.679 You know, there's all kinds of dissenter Protestants, uh who 1151 01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:51.679 found their way to South Africa because they wouldn't be persecuted. 1152 01:05:52.119 --> 01:05:53.400 You know, it was and it was a place that 1153 01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:56.800 you know until the until the end of the nineteenth century, 1154 01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:00.760 you know, no no European power had claimed you know. 1155 01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:02.639 So if you were too, if you were a Calvinist, 1156 01:06:02.679 --> 01:06:05.079 you know, the centered Protestant, you know, and and you 1157 01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:07.119 wanted to you wanted to find a place we could 1158 01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:09.840 live among white people who shared your faith, you know, 1159 01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:11.559 and you you wanted to make sure you weren't going 1160 01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:13.679 to be availed. You know a French king or a 1161 01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:17.800 who would you know, who would who would who would 1162 01:06:17.800 --> 01:06:21.239 just assume, you know, massacre you for being heretics or 1163 01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:24.519 you know, a British monarch that would you know kind 1164 01:06:24.519 --> 01:06:28.199 of uh, you know, try and try and turn the 1165 01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:31.320 territory you settle into a commercial colony. You know that 1166 01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:33.639 that that's that's what you unique about South Araba too. 1167 01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:38.199 And you know there's a. There's there's two terrible wars 1168 01:06:38.199 --> 01:06:41.159 fought between the Boors and and and and the British Crown. 1169 01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:43.880 You know, when the British Crown developed designs on it 1170 01:06:43.960 --> 01:06:47.320 owing the you know, various things like mining rights and 1171 01:06:47.480 --> 01:06:50.360 you know, access to access to territory and the cape. 1172 01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:54.000 Obviously it's always as views forded significance, but point being, 1173 01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:58.880 ultimately when uh, you know, the the South Africa was 1174 01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:01.920 not like Angola, not even like Rhodesia. It was its 1175 01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:04.159 own thing, you know. You have you had a population 1176 01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:07.880 of white people. Who's one of the reasons I think 1177 01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:11.079 their cause is important to people like us is because 1178 01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:14.320 they are they are white Calvinists and and who hailed 1179 01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:17.159 from you know, diverse backgrounds in northern Europe, you know, 1180 01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:20.000 and they they arrived in Africa for a lot of 1181 01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:23.199 the same reasons our our ancestors arrived here, you know, 1182 01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:27.000 and their experience was very different than that of you know, 1183 01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:30.639 that Portuguese and Golands or you know, the Anglo Saxon 1184 01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:35.679 people in Rhodesia, and those people found common cause later on, 1185 01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:38.480 you know, and Ian Smith talked about that and his 1186 01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:41.119 his autobiography. For those that don't know, Ian Smith was 1187 01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:43.559 the last Prime Minister of Rhodesia, and he was h 1188 01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:46.760 He was not a particularly exciting guy. He wasn't some 1189 01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:49.679 firebrand order, but he was. He was. He was. He 1190 01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:51.920 was a great leader in his own right in my opinion, okay, 1191 01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:54.599 but he was. He was kind of a typically pragmatic, 1192 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:57.679 you know, like Anglo type. But I don't want to 1193 01:07:57.719 --> 01:08:01.880 digress too much. But that's that's why South Africa is complicated. 1194 01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:04.880 And also what we'll get into is we deep dive too. 1195 01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:08.719 You know, South Africa is mischaracterized that it continues to 1196 01:08:08.719 --> 01:08:10.880 be kind of today because people talked about it in 1197 01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:13.920 the in in America and unless in Europe like it 1198 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:15.880 was the American South or something like. There was just 1199 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.359 quote you know, these black people and these white people, 1200 01:08:18.840 --> 01:08:20.479 you know, like Clive Derby Lewis, And we'll get a 1201 01:08:20.479 --> 01:08:22.319 little bit into him too, who in my opinion as 1202 01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:25.199 a real hero. I think using Tera Blanche is a 1203 01:08:25.199 --> 01:08:28.880 real clown, okay, and a very negative person. And it's 1204 01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:34.600 unfortunate that people identify identify, you know, white resistance with 1205 01:08:34.720 --> 01:08:38.359 him and not men like Lewis. But like Lewis said, 1206 01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:40.760 you know, there's not there's not there's not quote black 1207 01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:43.600 South Africa. You know, there's dozens of tribes in South 1208 01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:47.520 Africa who don't pretticularly get along, speak different languages, you know, 1209 01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:51.319 who even have different morphological characteristics, to the point you 1210 01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:53.079 could say they're not even the same, you know race. 1211 01:08:53.840 --> 01:08:56.600 So this idea that like Nelson Mandela is the leader, 1212 01:08:56.640 --> 01:08:58.279 was the leader of the black people, and there was 1213 01:08:58.319 --> 01:09:00.800 these millions of black people who are you know, being 1214 01:09:01.039 --> 01:09:05.560 being oppressed. That's not the case, you know, go ahead. 1215 01:09:05.920 --> 01:09:07.640 It's interesting you bring that up because there are a 1216 01:09:07.640 --> 01:09:10.479 few guys in our circles from South Africa. Right, There's 1217 01:09:10.520 --> 01:09:13.159 Marl Bane, there's Conscious Caricle, and they're good guys, right, 1218 01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:15.199 they're really they're involved with afri Forum and a couple 1219 01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:18.600 other like boor advocacy groups. But it's interesting because they 1220 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:21.640 they bring that up. Actually, mister Patriarch, another guy on 1221 01:09:21.680 --> 01:09:23.279 this side of things, he's been quiet for a while, 1222 01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:25.720 but he's he's also lives in South Africa, and they 1223 01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:28.479 bring that up. They're like, look like the idea that 1224 01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:31.039 Americans come in and kind of view this through the 1225 01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:35.880 lens of nineteen fifty eight Mississippi stupid, you know, look 1226 01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:39.119 like the primary violence in the last in the last 1227 01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:42.680 like you know, big round of of you know, semi 1228 01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:47.039 regular race riots that sweeps through that sweeps through South Africa. 1229 01:09:47.079 --> 01:09:50.800 It was primarily, you know, essentially a couple of different 1230 01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:52.159 tribes I think it was the Zulus and one of 1231 01:09:52.199 --> 01:09:55.600 the others against Indians, you know, brought in under the 1232 01:09:55.640 --> 01:09:58.920 crown and against colors. And colors is not a slur 1233 01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:03.880 in this context to specific group of essentially like and 1234 01:10:03.920 --> 01:10:07.039 I don't remember correctly, it's like mixed white black and 1235 01:10:07.039 --> 01:10:09.479 then also as yes, yeah. 1236 01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:12.600 Gape colored or mainly in a large part, but yeah, 1237 01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:15.760 and it's periodically the Zulus and the Boards have found 1238 01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:19.000 themselves not just you know, allied in government, but basically 1239 01:10:19.079 --> 01:10:22.079 pursuing common objectives. And you know, one of one of 1240 01:10:22.079 --> 01:10:23.840 the one of the one of the one of the 1241 01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:27.479 reasons why Mandela you know, sat out a political courses. 1242 01:10:27.880 --> 01:10:29.760 He was as much trying he was as much trying 1243 01:10:29.760 --> 01:10:32.600 to rook tribes hostle to his own traditionally as he 1244 01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:35.880 was the white power structure. Okay. And you know the 1245 01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:38.800 way to look at uh, you know, it's like it's 1246 01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:41.880 like it's like Derby Lewis said, you know, like we 1247 01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:44.439 we he's speaking of himself and his own people. He's like, 1248 01:10:44.439 --> 01:10:47.399 we're the white tribe here, you know, and that's uh, 1249 01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:50.319 that's not just that purballe. That's very true and. 1250 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:53.720 Well and it's interesting too because even and that was 1251 01:10:53.720 --> 01:10:56.359 actually one of the things that I noticed in uh 1252 01:10:56.399 --> 01:10:59.960 so we're we're both referencing, uh, at least I'm referenced 1253 01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:02.279 and interview Thomas sent me which i'll i'll include in 1254 01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:04.960 the show notes to this where essentially, uh, you know, 1255 01:11:04.960 --> 01:11:09.359 Clyde Daviles Lewis uh gave a talk for to I'm 1256 01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:12.239 trying to summarize him while being you know, you too friendly. Essentially, 1257 01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:15.359 he was a he was a political He committed or 1258 01:11:15.439 --> 01:11:18.439 was involved in a in a political assassination. Uh that 1259 01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:21.600 we can get into later. But it's interesting because he said, 1260 01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:25.560 you know, in his perspective, you know, you were a 1261 01:11:25.720 --> 01:11:28.960 South African essentially, if South Africa was your first priority. 1262 01:11:29.199 --> 01:11:30.520 It's an ationalist in that sentence. 1263 01:11:30.920 --> 01:11:33.760 And that's interesting because that's kind of contrary to a 1264 01:11:33.760 --> 01:11:35.760 lot of the at least from what I what I 1265 01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:40.399 read as like internacene fighting between essentially like Anglo South African. 1266 01:11:40.520 --> 01:11:43.399 So and then the bores, you know, they're a different stock. 1267 01:11:43.439 --> 01:11:46.760 They're different people, different language, different school system, and obviously 1268 01:11:46.760 --> 01:11:48.479 you can see how that would create you know, certain 1269 01:11:48.560 --> 01:11:51.079 levels of you know, discord between the two communities. 1270 01:11:52.119 --> 01:11:55.159 There was efforts and Lewis is an interesting guy, I'm 1271 01:11:55.199 --> 01:11:57.560 one of the things because his background was Anglo like 1272 01:11:57.600 --> 01:12:02.399 he was Catholic, he converted to UH, he converted to 1273 01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:06.720 UH prost andism, but he his background was Anglo and 1274 01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:09.920 he he he, he had obviously he identified very much 1275 01:12:09.920 --> 01:12:13.520 with the Borer Cause and the National Party, particularly as 1276 01:12:13.600 --> 01:12:18.920 the internal situation became uh more critical. They they very 1277 01:12:18.960 --> 01:12:21.800 much tried to you know, generate a kind of bigger 1278 01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:25.199 tense sensibility among whites, you know, Anglo descended whites as 1279 01:12:25.279 --> 01:12:28.520 well as the Bores, and to some degree that was successful, 1280 01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:30.720 but never as much as they wanted to be. But 1281 01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:34.279 there were two individuals like Lewis, who you know was 1282 01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:38.920 was Anglo by background. Who who uh you know, who 1283 01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:42.479 identified one hundred percent with the Borer Cause, like on 1284 01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:46.359 David Irving's website in nineteen eighty seven or so, he 1285 01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:49.600 when he visited South Africa, like he he was pelling 1286 01:12:49.640 --> 01:12:52.600 around with Clive Derby Lewis and he It's really interesting 1287 01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:56.479 because he like in that moment, you know, Uh, that 1288 01:12:56.600 --> 01:12:59.760 was just a few years before uh, you know, real 1289 01:13:00.279 --> 01:13:05.600 the real kind of crisis uh set in. But they 1290 01:13:05.960 --> 01:13:08.279 you know, obviously they're both guys I have a lot 1291 01:13:08.319 --> 01:13:10.119 of esteem for and I had no idea until really 1292 01:13:10.159 --> 01:13:14.399 recently they were even acquainted. But but yeah, the uh, 1293 01:13:14.960 --> 01:13:19.279 it's it's a complex issue how different white populations related. 1294 01:13:19.399 --> 01:13:23.319 But the uh, you know in the Rhodesians, the and Goland, 1295 01:13:23.319 --> 01:13:25.760 it became very tight at the Portuguese and Goland it's 1296 01:13:25.760 --> 01:13:28.199 being very tight out as part of that oh, the O, 1297 01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:32.000 the ODA, the Bush War wherein the those that don't 1298 01:13:32.039 --> 01:13:34.359 know the fifty thousand Cuban Army troops ended up on 1299 01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:38.399 the ground and Gola and post Vietnam, Uh, that was 1300 01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:43.239 that was a major coldor battle theater for reasons it 1301 01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:48.479 should be fairly obvious. But the uh, the South African whites, 1302 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:52.760 the Boars, they were never quite able to capture that 1303 01:13:53.159 --> 01:13:56.520 that same sort of amicability as existed between the Rhodesians 1304 01:13:56.560 --> 01:14:01.520 and and the Portuguese. But you know, some guys who 1305 01:14:01.600 --> 01:14:06.800 live there, you know, within our within our faction, could 1306 01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:10.600 describe that better than I could. But it's important, Yeah, 1307 01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:11.920 I mean, the main point I was trying to drive 1308 01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:16.359 home about ethnos versus a biological race is you know, 1309 01:14:16.520 --> 01:14:19.079 just what you said in a reference to Derby Lewis's interview, 1310 01:14:19.199 --> 01:14:22.520 and that, you know, being the fact that there's not 1311 01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:25.840 South Africa is not like America. There's not it. There's 1312 01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:28.399 not it. There's not a basically homogenous black population. And 1313 01:14:28.520 --> 01:14:32.239 black black folk in America are actually quite homogenous. You know, 1314 01:14:32.319 --> 01:14:36.760 they're they they their ancestry generally. Uh, it can can 1315 01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:39.439 be traced to you know, a handful of places. You know, 1316 01:14:39.479 --> 01:14:42.000 it's not it's it's not there. They're not They're not 1317 01:14:42.079 --> 01:14:46.399 just super diverse population. Okay, Uh, South Africa, however, I 1318 01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:49.239 mean again, there's there's there's there's literally dozens of tribes 1319 01:14:49.279 --> 01:14:53.079 that have you know, that have discrete cultural practices, speak 1320 01:14:53.119 --> 01:14:55.520 different languages, you know, do not see eye to eye 1321 01:14:55.600 --> 01:15:00.800 on basic matters of of pritical concern and things. So 1322 01:15:00.960 --> 01:15:03.439 it's you know, I mean, you can you can argue 1323 01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:07.359 against apartheid for various reasons. But yeah, this trying to 1324 01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:11.119 trying to try to pretend as if it's like the 1325 01:15:11.159 --> 01:15:14.359 American situation is off base. However, again, like I did 1326 01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:16.359 say a minute ago though the Bores are more like 1327 01:15:16.520 --> 01:15:19.920 us than most people on this planet. Okay, I mean 1328 01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:23.800 I they they're they're even more like us, I would 1329 01:15:23.880 --> 01:15:27.359 argue than than than Ulster Protestants who are also like us. 1330 01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:27.880 You know. 1331 01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:30.680 I I find it kind of weird articularly and I'm 1332 01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:32.720 not trashing like white nationalists, but when I when I 1333 01:15:32.760 --> 01:15:35.119 do'n to white nationalists who you know, they identify with 1334 01:15:35.239 --> 01:15:38.760 like Russia or something or like Orthodoxy, and it's like, look, man, 1335 01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:41.159 like if you're if you're at the center and you're 1336 01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:44.479 white and uh, you know you speak English because you 1337 01:15:44.520 --> 01:15:47.279 know your forebears did like your people kind of in 1338 01:15:47.399 --> 01:15:50.119 terms of diaspora are in places like Ulster and in 1339 01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:52.720 places like South Africa. You know, they're not They're not 1340 01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:56.720 Romanian and Russian guys, you know, like you know who 1341 01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:00.520 get into like orthodox aso Terraica. Just nothing wrong with 1342 01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:03.000 that or that's your culture, but it's it's it is 1343 01:16:03.079 --> 01:16:08.760 weird for Anglo uh dissenters to identify with that kind 1344 01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:10.279 of thing. I mean, I guess people do because they 1345 01:16:10.279 --> 01:16:12.439 think it's like exotic and cool or something. But I 1346 01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:15.319 you know, so I always I was considered to South 1347 01:16:15.319 --> 01:16:18.880 they ever got to be important. And you know, again 1348 01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:22.920 during the UH, during the Cold War, particular the final phase, 1349 01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:26.159 it became a critical ally, you know. And that's why 1350 01:16:26.319 --> 01:16:28.760 one of the reasons I don't want to get into 1351 01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:31.199 a big Reagan debate because I always find myself, I mean, 1352 01:16:31.239 --> 01:16:33.119 people really like Reagan to this day and I don't 1353 01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:37.319 particularly however, I I I I I do stand by 1354 01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:42.039 my statements that his his national security cabinet was second 1355 01:16:42.079 --> 01:16:45.439 to none in terms of the talent they're in and uh, 1356 01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:48.560 within the boundary rationality of the Cold War they were doing, 1357 01:16:49.199 --> 01:16:53.640 they had a remarkable grand strategy, Okay, and uh that's 1358 01:16:54.520 --> 01:16:58.319 uh Reagan Reygan refused to uh, I mean, Congress you know, 1359 01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:01.600 sanctioned South Africa and all kinds of ways. But you know, Reagan, 1360 01:17:02.239 --> 01:17:05.760 Ray Reigan refused to allow that to bleed into the 1361 01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:09.560 executive branch. And you know, he always he always, he 1362 01:17:09.800 --> 01:17:12.600 and his cabinet, particularly during his first term, you know, 1363 01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:15.199 viewed South Africa as an essential hedge, which it was, 1364 01:17:15.319 --> 01:17:18.319 and they were. They were in active combat against Warsaw 1365 01:17:18.399 --> 01:17:24.600 Pact and Cuban elements. Okay, So obviously, uh, if Africa 1366 01:17:24.720 --> 01:17:28.439 had if Africa had gone communists, that would have tipped 1367 01:17:28.479 --> 01:17:32.760 the balance in basic ways geostrategically. And I've made the 1368 01:17:32.800 --> 01:17:35.279 point before and again I don't want to go too 1369 01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:40.800 far on such a tangent, but in military terms, America, uh, 1370 01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:44.720 in during the detal era was losing the Cold War. Okay, 1371 01:17:44.720 --> 01:17:48.960 politically it was not. But uh, the military, the political 1372 01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:54.159 and the military. Uh the aspect of of of of 1373 01:17:54.279 --> 01:17:58.600 power political affairs converge, but they're not synonymous, okay. And 1374 01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:01.359 America would have had a very serious problem on its 1375 01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:06.199 hands if if uh, you know, if if if Marcus 1376 01:18:06.279 --> 01:18:08.520 leninisn't had swept to Africa, you know, it's swept Latin 1377 01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:12.560 America south of Mexico, and you know, and this would 1378 01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:16.239 have America would have found itself basically a garrison state, okay, 1379 01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:21.279 amidst an essentially hostile world. And that that's that's the 1380 01:18:21.319 --> 01:18:24.199 way to understand the Radi administration, especially the first term. 1381 01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:27.600 That's why I understand why, uh, there was a lot 1382 01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:30.319 of support for South Africa, even in even even in 1383 01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:34.800 basically neo conservative circles. Okay, yeah, you know this, it 1384 01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:36.760 was just kind of across the board understood that this 1385 01:18:36.920 --> 01:18:40.840 was necessary. So that's why South Africa has you know, well, 1386 01:18:40.880 --> 01:18:45.600 you know has uh like loomed large in the public consiousness. 1387 01:18:45.880 --> 01:18:47.520 There's even like a stupid like one of those like 1388 01:18:47.640 --> 01:18:51.439 lethal weapon movies like it. I mean they came out 1389 01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:53.359 in eighty eight already nine. Like the bad guys in 1390 01:18:53.399 --> 01:18:55.720 it are literally the South Africans who like run around 1391 01:18:55.880 --> 01:18:58.000 like doing all these evil things. I move, this is ridiculous. 1392 01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:01.520 I mean, Hollywood's always been propagana the oriented, but it 1393 01:19:01.600 --> 01:19:03.720 was very on the nose, and you know, that kind 1394 01:19:03.760 --> 01:19:07.119 of garbage was was ubiquitous. But you know the reason 1395 01:19:07.199 --> 01:19:11.960 why the reason why I like mainstream Republicans, uh supported 1396 01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:16.159 the Board Republic it was not because I for the 1397 01:19:16.199 --> 01:19:17.920 reasons why I like people like you and I like 1398 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.560 find common clause with Africanners. Okay, it was it was 1399 01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:24.399 very it was very much. It was very much. You know, 1400 01:19:25.479 --> 01:19:28.800 it was it was an extremely related to Grant strategy 1401 01:19:29.079 --> 01:19:31.640 in the final phase of the Cold War. But and 1402 01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:36.279 plus two, I will say Africanners are remarkable people and 1403 01:19:36.399 --> 01:19:39.039 for a population as small as they are, they've had 1404 01:19:39.079 --> 01:19:41.560 a huge impact and I mean they continue to today. 1405 01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:43.439 Like whether you will ever hate Elon Musk, he's an 1406 01:19:43.479 --> 01:19:48.000 incredibly accomplished guy, and they're they're just remarkable people, you know, 1407 01:19:48.279 --> 01:19:52.119 and uh they like like our like our ancestors did 1408 01:19:52.279 --> 01:19:55.720 they they they carved civilization out of a hostile wilderness, 1409 01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:58.479 you know, truly hostile wilderness, you know, I mean even 1410 01:19:58.800 --> 01:20:00.479 in some ways, even more so than America. 1411 01:20:01.319 --> 01:20:01.479 You know. 1412 01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:07.000 So yeah, I uh, you know, the aside in the 1413 01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:11.439 political uh intrigues and things and aside in the world 1414 01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:15.439 situation making South Africa more important than a small country 1415 01:20:15.520 --> 01:20:19.039 like that might be. You know, they have like like 1416 01:20:19.720 --> 01:20:23.560 you know, the African or people uh are have made 1417 01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:26.720 had an outside impact and again they continue to you know, 1418 01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:29.800 so they really are, uh, they really are a remarkable 1419 01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:31.199 a remarkable population. 1420 01:20:32.199 --> 01:20:33.800 So that's that's well said. 1421 01:20:34.039 --> 01:20:37.800 So to me, if we're talking about you know, South 1422 01:20:37.840 --> 01:20:41.600 Africa and kind of their importance over over the twentieth century, 1423 01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:43.600 the first thing that kind of I guess springs to 1424 01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:47.159 my mind is kind of leading up to the start 1425 01:20:47.319 --> 01:20:51.000 of you know, the twentieth century and kind of the 1426 01:20:51.640 --> 01:20:57.439 machinations that played between ah between Germany and the UK 1427 01:20:58.239 --> 01:21:01.279 as it relates to South afric So, can you explain 1428 01:21:01.359 --> 01:21:04.760 how that kind of diplomatic situation, like what happened there 1429 01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:05.960 and why that matters. 1430 01:21:06.079 --> 01:21:11.159 Well, the city strangely, and this this actually is important. 1431 01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:13.720 It's not just some stupid thing that some court of 1432 01:21:13.800 --> 01:21:18.239 Storian came up with. The collision course of uh of 1433 01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:20.760 the kaiser Reich and the United Kingdom. A lot of 1434 01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:25.199 that ohed to basic enmity between the Kaiser and between 1435 01:21:25.279 --> 01:21:27.880 King George that became more and more intense. You know, 1436 01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:32.840 they were these guys King George and the Kaiser like 1437 01:21:33.199 --> 01:21:36.359 they looked almost identical. You know, they had you know, 1438 01:21:36.399 --> 01:21:39.680 they had uh they were related, you know, but they 1439 01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:42.640 they were cousins, but they look like they could be brothers. Okay, 1440 01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:44.560 And so there's just kind of this there's kind of 1441 01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:46.439 like this manikey and weirdness to the fact that they 1442 01:21:46.479 --> 01:21:49.439 came to hate one another. That's not I mean, obviously 1443 01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:52.359 there was there was complex reasons why the relationship between 1444 01:21:52.399 --> 01:21:56.520 London and Berlin, like WINSTI South not, most of which 1445 01:21:56.560 --> 01:22:03.000 are not particularly rational, Okay, but uh, wil Helm felt 1446 01:22:03.039 --> 01:22:05.680 constantly slighted by London and will Elm was actually a 1447 01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:09.159 pretty ugly character. There's a reason why Adolf Hitler denied 1448 01:22:09.199 --> 01:22:12.880 him a state funeral when he died. Okay, he just 1449 01:22:13.039 --> 01:22:16.680 was not he was not a good man and any 1450 01:22:16.880 --> 01:22:19.840 in any sense to the term. Okay, but neither was 1451 01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:25.600 King George. But there was this this kind of in 1452 01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:31.960 those days, particularly because uh, you know, uh the Kaiser 1453 01:22:32.159 --> 01:22:33.840 was was the head of state as well as uh 1454 01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:36.680 you know, the the chance was the head of government, 1455 01:22:36.760 --> 01:22:40.039 but he was accountable to the Kayser and uh, the 1456 01:22:40.199 --> 01:22:42.880 UK to this day like the royals holds sway in 1457 01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:44.560 a way that's weird in the in the in the 1458 01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:47.159 modern era, you know. So the kind of the kind 1459 01:22:47.159 --> 01:22:50.119 of preferences and animosities of of the Kaiser and the 1460 01:22:50.199 --> 01:22:55.680 King respectively had like loomed large over politics in a 1461 01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:59.840 way that can't be said for other states. And when 1462 01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:04.560 uh in the course of uh, in the course of 1463 01:23:06.159 --> 01:23:09.399 the Second Boer War, Paul Krueger, who's this kind of 1464 01:23:09.479 --> 01:23:18.239 dashing uh a boor uh partisan he uh he pulled 1465 01:23:18.279 --> 01:23:23.439 off h a major operation against uh British forces, and 1466 01:23:23.680 --> 01:23:29.640 uh Wilhelm uh Wilhelm sentiment telegram congratulating him, you know, 1467 01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:33.399 essentially on on on defeating the British Empire, you know, 1468 01:23:33.479 --> 01:23:37.800 in his own small way, and uh, some people at 1469 01:23:37.840 --> 01:23:42.399 Christopher Clark, he's a guy he writes primarily about you know, 1470 01:23:42.479 --> 01:23:45.239 the history of Germany. But uh he's he's written pretty 1471 01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:48.479 extensively on the Great War, and he cites that is 1472 01:23:48.760 --> 01:23:50.640 is being kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. 1473 01:23:50.720 --> 01:23:55.119 And in terms of you know, uh relations between Berlin 1474 01:23:55.199 --> 01:24:02.760 and London deteriorating into conditions of genuine animal wherein you know, 1475 01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:06.920 war became somewhat inevitable when it had it with catalysts emerged. 1476 01:24:08.199 --> 01:24:11.199 So there's that. And despite what people, you know, people 1477 01:24:11.279 --> 01:24:13.720 never people don't think of Germany as an imperial power 1478 01:24:13.840 --> 01:24:18.000 in the nineteenth century sense, but it was to some degree. 1479 01:24:18.359 --> 01:24:23.039 And in what's now Namibia that was German Africa, okay, 1480 01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:26.279 and uh so, I mean Germany did have a toe 1481 01:24:26.359 --> 01:24:31.119 hold in in Subzhan Africa, and uh like Herman Gerring's 1482 01:24:31.159 --> 01:24:34.800 family actually made part of their fortune in Africa, all right, 1483 01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:39.319 But uh so there was uh you know, Germany had 1484 01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:47.199 had Germany's uh cultural sphere of influence touched and concerned 1485 01:24:47.239 --> 01:24:49.960 white people in Africa too. Okay, it was not it 1486 01:24:50.079 --> 01:24:52.279 was not just the French and uh and and and 1487 01:24:52.880 --> 01:24:57.960 and in the Anglo Saxons and the the Portuguese, so 1488 01:24:58.159 --> 01:25:01.600 the the the African can to identified very strong with Germany. 1489 01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:04.119 I mean not just because they're culturally Dutch and large part, 1490 01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:09.000 you know, but they they had uh you know, German 1491 01:25:09.079 --> 01:25:12.239 Protestants and and and Dutch calvin ITTs are different, but 1492 01:25:12.560 --> 01:25:16.840 uh they are both you know, dissenters. Okay, and uh 1493 01:25:17.640 --> 01:25:20.279 there was a basic uh you know, there was a 1494 01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:24.760 basic Uh there's a basic affinity between uh Protestant Germany 1495 01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:29.600 and uh and the Afrikaners. So I mean that there's 1496 01:25:29.640 --> 01:25:34.239 that too when uh the uh, the German uh view 1497 01:25:34.319 --> 01:25:36.239 of the British is kind of this bully power that 1498 01:25:36.880 --> 01:25:39.880 you know, insisted on that it had a mandate to dominate, 1499 01:25:40.119 --> 01:25:43.159 you know, the dominate the planet, as you know in 1500 01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:47.199 in key theaters. Yeah, it was it was unwilling to 1501 01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:49.239 allow Uh, it was. 1502 01:25:49.279 --> 01:25:49.439 It was. 1503 01:25:49.439 --> 01:25:52.279 It was unwilling to allow any other power, any other 1504 01:25:52.359 --> 01:25:54.840 any other European power, to pursue the same course. And 1505 01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:57.399 not only they didn't even and and and addians all 1506 01:25:57.439 --> 01:26:00.279 the injury, like the British says this kind of obnoxious world. 1507 01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:03.159 Can't you know, they didn't just characterize this in terms 1508 01:26:03.199 --> 01:26:06.600 of a realistic policy course wherein they you know, they 1509 01:26:06.680 --> 01:26:08.279 had to look out for their own best interests and 1510 01:26:08.319 --> 01:26:11.600 that other people, so it you know, as opposed to uh, 1511 01:26:11.640 --> 01:26:14.800 you know, the Germans always had a you know, political 1512 01:26:14.840 --> 01:26:19.279 identity as well as uh, you know, cultural ethics and 1513 01:26:19.760 --> 01:26:21.920 you know what they viewed as uh as the role 1514 01:26:21.960 --> 01:26:24.439 of loyalty they're in. I mean always had always had 1515 01:26:24.439 --> 01:26:28.840 an ethno racial characteristic that was prominent, which is correct, 1516 01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:31.399 you know, and and and the British too, and I'm 1517 01:26:31.399 --> 01:26:33.920 not talking about English people and talking about their regime. 1518 01:26:34.600 --> 01:26:37.199 You know, always always disdained that, you know, and and 1519 01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:40.600 kind of stupid and and condescending ways. And you know, 1520 01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:45.800 just this there was something of a Velton Shawn's Creek 1521 01:26:45.880 --> 01:26:49.000 did come to exist somewhat between the UK and Germany. 1522 01:26:49.079 --> 01:26:53.560 I mean different from obviously you know uh that uh 1523 01:26:54.239 --> 01:26:57.159 of a you know between Christians and Jews, or between 1524 01:26:57.159 --> 01:27:01.319 you know German uh National Socialists and and in Russell Bolsheviks. 1525 01:27:01.359 --> 01:27:04.800 But nevertheless, there was a there was an aspect of 1526 01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:08.199 of of of open political warfare that came to characterize 1527 01:27:09.079 --> 01:27:11.359 angle German relations. And I will add and I mean 1528 01:27:11.479 --> 01:27:15.479 people can sellings is a conceptual bias that basically was 1529 01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:18.840 the UK's fault. Okay, because I don't think I can 1530 01:27:18.880 --> 01:27:22.920 be denied pretty much at every turn in the modern era, 1531 01:27:23.199 --> 01:27:28.000 the Germans tried to cultivate the British and they the 1532 01:27:28.079 --> 01:27:31.119 British always sued for war, you know. I mean if 1533 01:27:31.159 --> 01:27:33.399 it's if you sue for war one hundred percent of 1534 01:27:33.479 --> 01:27:36.680 the time, I mean that you're you're not You're not 1535 01:27:37.119 --> 01:27:39.720 you're not you're not a reasonable Uh, you're not a 1536 01:27:39.760 --> 01:27:44.279 reasonable act Okay. I mean that that's that's got a 1537 01:27:44.319 --> 01:27:48.720 parallel today. And you know the way America behaves in 1538 01:27:48.760 --> 01:27:50.720 places like Ukraine. You know, if you're if if your 1539 01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:52.640 end game is to find a way to go to 1540 01:27:52.800 --> 01:27:57.199 war and people can't reason with you, okay, and you're 1541 01:27:57.239 --> 01:28:00.199 not you're not acting in good faith, you know. So 1542 01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:02.079 there's that but that. 1543 01:28:03.560 --> 01:28:03.880 You know that. 1544 01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:07.520 That's kind of the that's kind of the relationship between 1545 01:28:07.680 --> 01:28:12.119 uh what became the Boar Republic, you know, and and 1546 01:28:12.359 --> 01:28:14.239 and and prior to that, you know, the the kind 1547 01:28:14.279 --> 01:28:17.680 of the Afrikaner population and and the German Empire and 1548 01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:22.000 leaving the German Reich. And as you'll notice, even though 1549 01:28:22.039 --> 01:28:23.840 I've got something I say about Turret Blanche the a 1550 01:28:24.079 --> 01:28:26.000 w B, I I've got a lot of respect for 1551 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:30.760 and uh and and and those people they you know, 1552 01:28:30.840 --> 01:28:33.840 they still they they openly, uh they openly you know, 1553 01:28:33.920 --> 01:28:35.239 fly the swastika and stuff. 1554 01:28:35.399 --> 01:28:35.520 You know. 1555 01:28:35.640 --> 01:28:38.039 They then they've they've got no qualmas about that or 1556 01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:41.439 or anything, you know, so they and and that's good, 1557 01:28:41.720 --> 01:28:44.600 you know, they that's what they should do. But so 1558 01:28:44.720 --> 01:28:47.880 that yeah, they such that the such that the Boors 1559 01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:51.439 identify with anybody, you know, that they identify with Germany 1560 01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:54.319 very strongly. All right. 1561 01:28:54.600 --> 01:28:59.359 So, uh, if we're talking about kind of my interaction 1562 01:29:00.199 --> 01:29:02.439 with South Africa, it's kind of this and you kind 1563 01:29:02.439 --> 01:29:05.079 of hinted at it. It seemed like for a lot 1564 01:29:05.119 --> 01:29:07.520 of people who kind of came of age during the eighties, 1565 01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:12.520 so you know, kind of my parents' generation, South Africa 1566 01:29:12.600 --> 01:29:15.079 was kind of one of the like laundry list of 1567 01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:18.560 kind of just like social ills that all good people 1568 01:29:18.680 --> 01:29:21.079 felt a certain way on. You know, it was like well, 1569 01:29:21.199 --> 01:29:26.199 nuclear disarmament, peace in Ireland, you know, and South Africa. 1570 01:29:26.319 --> 01:29:27.880 You know, it's kind of like rattled off in a 1571 01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:30.680 list like that. So can you maybe like go into 1572 01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:33.199 that a little bit? Just like your experience growing up 1573 01:29:33.279 --> 01:29:35.239 during the time was very much kind of one of 1574 01:29:35.279 --> 01:29:39.920 the the like I guess, like unadulterated goods in heavy 1575 01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:42.439 scare quotes of kind of like polite society. 1576 01:29:43.640 --> 01:29:47.520 Well, yeah, and like I said, it was it it Uh. 1577 01:29:49.880 --> 01:29:52.720 You know, the Cold War became very fixated on narratives. Okay, 1578 01:29:53.159 --> 01:29:56.359 so it's a combination of you know, and back in 1579 01:29:56.399 --> 01:29:58.079 those days. I always make the point again and again, 1580 01:29:58.159 --> 01:30:01.399 how bizarre it is that the military I'm not talking 1581 01:30:01.399 --> 01:30:04.600 about Gronston enlisted people. I'm talking about the brass. I 1582 01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:06.479 can't ecess how bizarre it is in the twenty that 1583 01:30:06.720 --> 01:30:09.800 as of today, like the military is like woke incorporated, 1584 01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:14.600 like homicide division, you know, like it uh, because the 1585 01:30:14.680 --> 01:30:18.039 Pentagon and uh and and the precursors to the Woke 1586 01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:23.159 were totally at odds in the past, like intractably so 1587 01:30:23.399 --> 01:30:27.000 and then and uh, they endured until the Clinton administration. Okay, 1588 01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:29.079 and there was there was there was something of a 1589 01:30:29.199 --> 01:30:33.279 verial culter comp against the Pentagon by by the Clinton regime, 1590 01:30:33.760 --> 01:30:37.239 which is why you know, people like these these you know, 1591 01:30:37.359 --> 01:30:40.800 these these these these clowns and these lunatics like Wesley Clark, 1592 01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:43.399 you know, the kind of the first woke general emerged. 1593 01:30:43.479 --> 01:30:46.760 But there's a few different layers to it. In the eighties. 1594 01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:49.760 You know, like I said, you know it uh the 1595 01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:54.600 uh the uh the social justice types. Uh they're they're 1596 01:30:54.720 --> 01:30:56.680 they're always looking for some kind of like bumper sticker, 1597 01:30:56.800 --> 01:31:01.760 cause the uh the truly uh you know, the kind 1598 01:31:01.760 --> 01:31:08.000 of radical uh uh post sixty eight uh communists in America, 1599 01:31:08.399 --> 01:31:10.840 you know, who would become very anti Stalinist but claimed 1600 01:31:10.840 --> 01:31:12.560 that you know, that's why they all identified with MAO 1601 01:31:12.680 --> 01:31:15.680 and you know they identified strongly with uh, with North 1602 01:31:15.760 --> 01:31:19.159 Vietnam when the war was raging. You know, they their 1603 01:31:19.239 --> 01:31:22.439 whole thing you know was uh, they're you know, they 1604 01:31:22.439 --> 01:31:24.960 were Trotsky and through co were kind of their patron saints. 1605 01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:28.640 So they were constantly making the claim that like see 1606 01:31:28.760 --> 01:31:31.640 like South Africa's that's still essence in capitalism and capitalism 1607 01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:35.600 has been intrinsically patriarchal and racist, but also the traditional 1608 01:31:35.720 --> 01:31:42.439 Marxist Leninists you know, uh who uh who had fallen 1609 01:31:42.600 --> 01:31:44.960 very much out of favor. But you know, I'm talking 1610 01:31:44.960 --> 01:31:48.039 about the CP Communist Party USA guys, you know, and 1611 01:31:48.119 --> 01:31:53.079 they're like Gus Hall, they they they South Africa was 1612 01:31:53.119 --> 01:31:55.960 in their gun sites too, because their their troops, you know, 1613 01:31:56.079 --> 01:31:57.840 well where they're talking about, you know, D D r 1614 01:31:57.920 --> 01:32:01.079 and Soviet advisors on the ground, the actual Cuban army, 1615 01:32:01.439 --> 01:32:03.000 you know, they were they were they were in active 1616 01:32:03.079 --> 01:32:06.319 combat with the South African Defense Forces and yeah, that 1617 01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:10.199 was they they they emphasized it for the reasons. But 1618 01:32:10.359 --> 01:32:12.159 you know, of course they were saying like you know, well, 1619 01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:15.439 you know this is you know, South Africa was racialized 1620 01:32:15.479 --> 01:32:17.399 because you know that that's the best way of oppressing 1621 01:32:17.399 --> 01:32:21.760 the proletariat there, like white and black. You know, but uh, 1622 01:32:22.439 --> 01:32:24.920 you know that, and yeah, it's important. They it's it's 1623 01:32:25.079 --> 01:32:27.119 it's it's insightful that you raise the issue in Northern 1624 01:32:27.199 --> 01:32:29.600 Ireland too, because yeah, that was part of the that 1625 01:32:29.720 --> 01:32:32.319 was part of the package. You know, like you you 1626 01:32:32.600 --> 01:32:34.720 you you were a bad person if you didn't support 1627 01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:37.800 the Fenians and in Northern Ireland, you know, you were 1628 01:32:37.840 --> 01:32:40.920 a bad person if if you sympathize with with white 1629 01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:44.319 South Africa. You know, just there was a kind of 1630 01:32:44.319 --> 01:32:47.359 like virtue signaling really large by people who weren't particularly thoughtful. 1631 01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:50.119 And yeah, it on top of that, there was the 1632 01:32:50.239 --> 01:32:52.399 you know, the like I said, the Cold War, dynamic 1633 01:32:53.640 --> 01:32:56.000 and diverse factions of the left. You know, it had 1634 01:32:56.079 --> 01:32:58.479 something for all of them in order to kind of 1635 01:32:58.600 --> 01:33:01.119 argue their case. And in the eighties I was getting 1636 01:33:01.159 --> 01:33:05.079 increasingly difficult for them. Okay, however, like the eighties is 1637 01:33:05.079 --> 01:33:07.479 what I'm the eighties and nineties or nothing like today. 1638 01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:11.479 But I mean, the social engineering regime was well under way. 1639 01:33:11.760 --> 01:33:13.760 And the idea that quote racism is you know, the 1640 01:33:13.840 --> 01:33:17.159 worst thing is is is you know this grave moral 1641 01:33:17.279 --> 01:33:22.079 defect you know, uh that that that that always to 1642 01:33:22.359 --> 01:33:27.239 you know, uh, a moral deformity in the Western minding character. 1643 01:33:27.720 --> 01:33:30.000 You know this this loomed really large, and this was 1644 01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:33.239 kind of like Danny about Okay, so if you could 1645 01:33:33.279 --> 01:33:34.720 find you know, if you could point, if you could 1646 01:33:34.720 --> 01:33:37.399 point to a real world example of you know, apartheid 1647 01:33:37.520 --> 01:33:40.399 quote racism, that became your kind of exhibited a like 1648 01:33:40.479 --> 01:33:43.119 indict the West. Okay. And obviously doesn't mean like a 1649 01:33:43.199 --> 01:33:45.920 thinking person be like that. That's that's ridiculous, that's trash. 1650 01:33:46.399 --> 01:33:48.239 But we're not talking about thinking people, you know, we're 1651 01:33:48.279 --> 01:33:51.840 talking about we're talking about we're talking about basically middle 1652 01:33:51.840 --> 01:33:54.359 class people who are chasing cloud. So they just take 1653 01:33:54.399 --> 01:33:56.840 on ideas because they want to feel good about themselves 1654 01:33:56.880 --> 01:33:59.680 and they think that that's what you know, sophisticated people 1655 01:33:59.760 --> 01:34:04.039 do it really is that simple. But in the case, 1656 01:34:04.159 --> 01:34:06.439 like I said, in the case of guys who the 1657 01:34:07.000 --> 01:34:10.159 minority of the the American left, guys like Hobsbaum was, 1658 01:34:10.520 --> 01:34:12.640 and guys like Sartro was frankly you know when he 1659 01:34:12.800 --> 01:34:16.479 was alive, who were still pro Soviet And I mean 1660 01:34:16.520 --> 01:34:18.279 they they were very much a minority on the last, 1661 01:34:18.319 --> 01:34:20.960 but they were a vocal minority, you know, like I said, 1662 01:34:21.039 --> 01:34:23.680 they they they held out South Africa. I think, you know, 1663 01:34:23.960 --> 01:34:25.720 like see this is the future of America, you know, 1664 01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:28.359 like you have an increasingly colored America on this like 1665 01:34:28.399 --> 01:34:33.159 white oppressor class that racializes everybody's conceptual horizon, you know, 1666 01:34:33.239 --> 01:34:35.319 in order to in order to oppress the proletariat and 1667 01:34:35.399 --> 01:34:38.159 prevent you know, the the advent of socialism, you know. 1668 01:34:38.520 --> 01:34:40.439 And then you just had like a typical like you 1669 01:34:40.560 --> 01:34:43.680 had a typical like you know new Left uh crazies 1670 01:34:44.680 --> 01:34:47.199 who were kind of the dominant voice in in uh 1671 01:34:47.479 --> 01:34:51.000 in academic uh Marxism. But then you also had just 1672 01:34:51.199 --> 01:34:53.079 like you know, you had you had just you had 1673 01:34:53.079 --> 01:34:55.880 just kind of like them, the like the Midwood slabs 1674 01:34:55.880 --> 01:34:59.359 who just like Bandwagon. So I mean that's why it, uh, 1675 01:35:00.600 --> 01:35:02.239 I mean, I had kind of a weird experience growing 1676 01:35:02.319 --> 01:35:04.279 up because like I, I grew up in what I 1677 01:35:04.399 --> 01:35:07.239 hate this term, and I'm not because it's something I'm 1678 01:35:07.279 --> 01:35:09.680 cloud chasing or something absolutely not. I'm just being honest. 1679 01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:12.039 I grew up in what people call it super zip. Okay, 1680 01:35:12.720 --> 01:35:14.279 but it was a bunch. It was a bunch of 1681 01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:16.800 it was. It was a bunch of Jewish people, like 1682 01:35:16.960 --> 01:35:20.079 rich Catholic people and like ten or fifty percent like rich, 1683 01:35:20.199 --> 01:35:22.920 like Asian and like Hindu immigrants. So it's like I 1684 01:35:22.960 --> 01:35:26.159 didn't I me and my family like didn't fit in 1685 01:35:26.239 --> 01:35:28.439 with these people. Okay. We went to the Pirespe church, 1686 01:35:28.560 --> 01:35:31.199 like the next town over. My dad was an okie 1687 01:35:31.239 --> 01:35:34.199 guy who ended up going to Harvard and made it, 1688 01:35:34.720 --> 01:35:37.319 you know, very much in life. But you know he 1689 01:35:37.640 --> 01:35:39.880 he was a cold warrior, like literally that was his job. 1690 01:35:40.399 --> 01:35:40.520 You know. 1691 01:35:40.640 --> 01:35:43.479 My mom was a My mom was like a doctor's 1692 01:35:43.560 --> 01:35:46.399 daughter from La you know, like and she was she'd 1693 01:35:46.439 --> 01:35:48.840 been a rich kid. So my folks are people who 1694 01:35:49.640 --> 01:35:52.079 whatever their faults, they were many My folks were not 1695 01:35:52.279 --> 01:35:55.399 you know, proto woke and like my folks basically looked 1696 01:35:55.399 --> 01:35:57.000 down on their neighbors. Would tell me like these people 1697 01:35:57.000 --> 01:36:00.199 are idious, you know, So like I I wasn't kind 1698 01:36:00.199 --> 01:36:02.079 of a different environment. It's not like folks like hard 1699 01:36:02.159 --> 01:36:05.159 right people, because by today's standard they might be viewed 1700 01:36:05.159 --> 01:36:06.920 that way, but for the time they weren't, you know, 1701 01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:09.399 but they were just kind of like regular like presby Republicans. 1702 01:36:09.680 --> 01:36:11.800 But they basically simulated to me, like, look, you're gonna 1703 01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:14.119 hear fucked up things in school, like our neighbors are 1704 01:36:14.199 --> 01:36:17.119 like goofy immigrants and people who you know have agendas, 1705 01:36:17.159 --> 01:36:20.319 so just like be aware of it, you know. I 1706 01:36:20.359 --> 01:36:22.479 mean they said that without saying it if you follow me, 1707 01:36:23.279 --> 01:36:25.319 So I mean I was kind of like a critical 1708 01:36:25.359 --> 01:36:27.920 eye about this. So that's why I don't totally relate 1709 01:36:27.960 --> 01:36:29.920 with people like oh but you know, growing up you 1710 01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:31.560 have no choice, you have to think this way. And 1711 01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:33.239 I'm like, what do you mean? Then I realized, like 1712 01:36:33.359 --> 01:36:36.600 most people would kind of like random America. They're they're 1713 01:36:37.439 --> 01:36:40.159 they live around people like them, at least in basic terms, 1714 01:36:40.239 --> 01:36:43.319 like I did not. Okay, So I maybe that's why 1715 01:36:43.439 --> 01:36:45.640 it was like easier for me to get over those things. 1716 01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:47.840 It's not as I'm smarter than anybody, you're have like 1717 01:36:47.920 --> 01:36:53.319 better insight or something. But yeah, point being, I even 1718 01:36:53.399 --> 01:36:55.520 before I was you know, before I was mature enough, 1719 01:36:55.680 --> 01:36:57.880 you know, as like a later teenager to think you know, 1720 01:36:58.319 --> 01:37:01.600 in more developed conceptual terms, even as like a kid. 1721 01:37:01.640 --> 01:37:03.680 When I was like twelve years old, I realized, like, 1722 01:37:03.840 --> 01:37:05.680 what's being said about sale area, It doesn't really make 1723 01:37:05.680 --> 01:37:08.800 any sense, you know what I mean? Like so, but yeah, 1724 01:37:09.079 --> 01:37:10.000 it was ubiquitous. 1725 01:37:11.760 --> 01:37:14.880 So again speaking in the language of kind of the 1726 01:37:15.039 --> 01:37:20.279 like the you know, the the like I'm sure I 1727 01:37:20.319 --> 01:37:21.680 don't know if the correct term is is but the 1728 01:37:21.800 --> 01:37:25.920 kind of like the fuzzy you know, like never explicitly 1729 01:37:26.000 --> 01:37:30.319 stated a kind of version of events. What kind of 1730 01:37:30.560 --> 01:37:33.439 happened with you know again heavy scare quotes is essentially 1731 01:37:33.520 --> 01:37:39.199 like all right, uh, apartheid was ended, you know, the 1732 01:37:39.640 --> 01:37:43.680 Truth and Reconciliation Committee set out to make everything fair 1733 01:37:44.199 --> 01:37:48.119 and correct and deal with everyone, you know, honestly. And 1734 01:37:48.199 --> 01:37:52.600 then South Africa magically became you know, essentially a European democracy. 1735 01:37:53.279 --> 01:37:57.159 And it's odd to me because obviously that's fundamentally untrue. 1736 01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:00.239 But what's interesting is to me, at least one of 1737 01:38:00.279 --> 01:38:04.640 the first areas, it became very apparent that whatever, if 1738 01:38:04.680 --> 01:38:07.159 you want to say, the Nuremberg regime, the managerial regime, 1739 01:38:07.920 --> 01:38:12.079 that they were kind of failing, and not in the 1740 01:38:12.119 --> 01:38:14.479 sense that like, oh, they're losing their power immediately, but 1741 01:38:14.640 --> 01:38:17.000 just like the things that they want to do they 1742 01:38:17.079 --> 01:38:19.479 do not have the power to do. To me, seems 1743 01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:22.680 to be South Africa, like it kind of seemed relatively 1744 01:38:22.760 --> 01:38:25.000 quickly that things were not going well, you know, and 1745 01:38:25.039 --> 01:38:27.399 now we've got to the point where it's very very 1746 01:38:27.520 --> 01:38:30.079 apparently not going well well. And so it's kind of 1747 01:38:30.199 --> 01:38:33.560 like the promises of you know, nineties liberalism. It's like, oh, 1748 01:38:33.640 --> 01:38:37.319 we we beat the Ruskies, we achieved you know, reconciliation 1749 01:38:37.439 --> 01:38:40.680 in South Africa, and now we've done it. We did everything, 1750 01:38:41.039 --> 01:38:43.800 you know, and very quickly both of those promises kind 1751 01:38:43.840 --> 01:38:44.720 of started to ring hollow. 1752 01:38:44.760 --> 01:38:45.560 Do you see what I'm saying? 1753 01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:48.640 Yeah, well, I've got to insinuate something. And most people 1754 01:38:48.680 --> 01:38:54.399 don't know about this In America, what really people are like, 1755 01:38:54.439 --> 01:38:56.600 how do sell? They ever fall? And our shopping fired? 1756 01:38:56.800 --> 01:39:01.199 Shots were fired, and there was a there was this 1757 01:39:01.279 --> 01:39:04.399 horrible footage and it aired on CNN at the time. 1758 01:39:05.880 --> 01:39:07.920 What are the Bantu stands for? People that don't know? 1759 01:39:09.520 --> 01:39:13.239 From about the Botha regime onward in the seventies, the 1760 01:39:13.359 --> 01:39:17.399 idea was that South Africa was what what they're gonna 1761 01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:19.920 do is they were basically gonna they were gonna transfer 1762 01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:25.439 populations to tribal areas called Bantu stands, where within these 1763 01:39:25.560 --> 01:39:29.159 territories they would be basically homogeneous. Okay. So this is 1764 01:39:29.159 --> 01:39:33.319 a way of like affording sovereignty and you know, uh 1765 01:39:33.960 --> 01:39:36.960 management of their own affairs to the indigenous element. Okay. 1766 01:39:37.479 --> 01:39:40.079 And there's a number of these quotes quote unlet Bantu stands, 1767 01:39:41.359 --> 01:39:46.880 one of which was uh. Both with that Swanna okay. 1768 01:39:47.560 --> 01:39:52.439 And both with that Swanna had a president that Now 1769 01:39:52.520 --> 01:39:54.720 these these band new stands were recognized as sovereign states 1770 01:39:54.760 --> 01:39:56.560 by South Africa, but the rest of the world claimed 1771 01:39:56.560 --> 01:40:00.479 that they were illegitimate, okay, and then they were just 1772 01:40:00.560 --> 01:40:05.319 contrivances of of of of pretoria. That was not entirely true. 1773 01:40:05.600 --> 01:40:09.000 And and both with that Swanna specifically, the regime there 1774 01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:11.640 did not want to join the Union of South Africa. 1775 01:40:11.960 --> 01:40:15.079 They wanted to remain sovereign. There's an element on the 1776 01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:21.199 ground that was highly radicalized and Marxist Leninist symb of 1777 01:40:21.279 --> 01:40:26.399 these something of a civil unrest developed between the government 1778 01:40:26.479 --> 01:40:31.079 there and this element on the ground and the AWB 1779 01:40:31.199 --> 01:40:35.079 under Terra Blanche. They invaded quite literally to support that 1780 01:40:35.159 --> 01:40:38.520 both with that Swanna regime, and they acted like real cowboys, 1781 01:40:38.880 --> 01:40:41.399 and they started throwing shots at a bunch of these 1782 01:40:42.199 --> 01:40:45.960 protesters and stuff. They ended up trading fire with the 1783 01:40:46.039 --> 01:40:51.119 police there, and this car was pulled over where these 1784 01:40:51.159 --> 01:40:55.239 awb Africaner dudes who'd been wounded, and they put their 1785 01:40:55.279 --> 01:40:57.640 hands of the surrender and a black cop went over 1786 01:40:57.800 --> 01:40:59.159 one by one he shot each of them in the 1787 01:40:59.239 --> 01:41:01.159 head and just killed them like you executed them on 1788 01:41:01.239 --> 01:41:04.680 the spot. So Tera Blanche then said basically like this 1789 01:41:04.800 --> 01:41:07.640 is a race war, like we're at war. And uh, 1790 01:41:10.319 --> 01:41:13.920 kudos to the South African Defense Forces because a guy 1791 01:41:13.960 --> 01:41:17.920 in their general staff. Uh he is the founder of 1792 01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:20.319 what was called the africaner volks Front, you know. So, 1793 01:41:20.359 --> 01:41:22.159 I mean he was very much like for his people. 1794 01:41:22.239 --> 01:41:25.079 He wasn't some liberal, but he basically was able to 1795 01:41:25.119 --> 01:41:28.960 defuse the situation and prevent like open slaughter between whites 1796 01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:32.199 and blacks from you know, jumping off from both with 1797 01:41:32.239 --> 01:41:37.199 that Swanna like across you know, the entire republic. But 1798 01:41:38.079 --> 01:41:39.920 you know, South America was very much like on the 1799 01:41:39.960 --> 01:41:42.199 cost of a bloody race war. Okay, I mean it 1800 01:41:42.319 --> 01:41:45.680 wasn't like it wasn't the case where like a bunch 1801 01:41:45.720 --> 01:41:49.439 of dopey fucking idiots like uh, you know, like at 1802 01:41:49.439 --> 01:41:51.840 the EU today, like they just say, you know, we're 1803 01:41:51.920 --> 01:41:54.079 like just like, oh, let's have a reinbonation because we're 1804 01:41:54.079 --> 01:41:56.000 being told to vote that way. It's like, what are 1805 01:41:56.000 --> 01:41:58.560 we gonna do. We're gonna werena, We're gonna go all 1806 01:41:58.640 --> 01:42:00.560 in and like you know fight some and those race 1807 01:42:00.640 --> 01:42:03.439 war you know in in in on the Cape. I 1808 01:42:03.520 --> 01:42:07.119 mean that that uh, but so they average better war. 1809 01:42:07.239 --> 01:42:10.520 Literally for twenty years they've been fighting the Cuban fucking army, Okay. 1810 01:42:10.560 --> 01:42:13.640 I mean it's like it's at some point like war 1811 01:42:14.479 --> 01:42:17.720 weariness sets in. They were states that was totally mobilized, 1812 01:42:18.199 --> 01:42:20.840 you know, like even like every man uh served in 1813 01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:23.159 the SADF and then he was you know I active 1814 01:42:23.199 --> 01:42:26.359 reserve status for decades after, you know. I mean it's 1815 01:42:26.439 --> 01:42:29.920 like they something had to give, you know, and it's 1816 01:42:29.960 --> 01:42:34.239 some So I mean that's what uh that that's babsy 1817 01:42:34.319 --> 01:42:37.000 what happened. But like I said, that footage of uh, 1818 01:42:37.880 --> 01:42:40.399 that footage of those that footage of those those guys 1819 01:42:40.479 --> 01:42:43.439 being executed in the street, like literally that's like been 1820 01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:45.720 very quickly memory hold. I'm sure you could find it now, 1821 01:42:46.279 --> 01:42:51.159 but it's like that story ran you know, uh there 1822 01:42:51.279 --> 01:42:54.159 was you know, uh like ninety three, ninety four, like 1823 01:42:54.239 --> 01:42:56.239 the nightly news was. You know, they were relaying like 1824 01:42:56.279 --> 01:42:57.920 at any moment, you know, South there is going to 1825 01:42:57.960 --> 01:43:02.039 develop into race war, but then very quickly, uh you 1826 01:43:02.119 --> 01:43:03.760 know that was that was a memory hole. It was 1827 01:43:03.800 --> 01:43:05.560 just like never talked about again. I mean to your 1828 01:43:05.640 --> 01:43:08.159 point because the narratives like, oh, this is the end 1829 01:43:08.199 --> 01:43:10.119 of history and like now there's just no more quote 1830 01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:14.159 racism in South Afgo, but very very disastrous situation, you know, 1831 01:43:14.199 --> 01:43:18.800 and obviously later on too, boors have been uh availed 1832 01:43:19.520 --> 01:43:21.960 a tremendous amount of violence. You know, everybody knows about 1833 01:43:21.960 --> 01:43:24.319 the farm killings and stuff. I don't want to I 1834 01:43:24.359 --> 01:43:25.840 don't want to go down like a just like a 1835 01:43:25.960 --> 01:43:29.720 list of atrocities or something. Okay. I not not because 1836 01:43:29.720 --> 01:43:32.560 I'm like afraid to talk about upsetting things or because 1837 01:43:32.600 --> 01:43:35.319 i want to like hide that stuff obviously, but people 1838 01:43:35.359 --> 01:43:37.359 can see that on their own, and I it's frankly, 1839 01:43:37.399 --> 01:43:39.680 it's it's oppressing to delve into it. But every everybody, 1840 01:43:40.039 --> 01:43:42.600 everybody thinks critically it knows the history, like knows the 1841 01:43:42.640 --> 01:43:45.560 reality these things. But that's bit. See what happened and 1842 01:43:45.640 --> 01:43:49.119 what was keeping what was keeping South the Africa alive? Uh? 1843 01:43:49.800 --> 01:43:51.800 What was the Cold War? Okay, I mean that's what 1844 01:43:53.199 --> 01:43:55.279 That's what it was. I did agree to which I 1845 01:43:55.319 --> 01:43:58.960 November ninth, nineteen eighty nine. Everything changed. They can't be overstated, 1846 01:43:59.119 --> 01:44:04.000 okay it uh I can't emphasize that enough to people 1847 01:44:04.079 --> 01:44:07.039 like it. It changed, It changed everything you know in 1848 01:44:07.159 --> 01:44:09.920 the it's you know different, not just in terms of 1849 01:44:09.960 --> 01:44:14.039 relations between states and power, political affairs between you know 1850 01:44:14.199 --> 01:44:16.880 states and between a like like blocks, and but I 1851 01:44:16.920 --> 01:44:19.760 mean the internal situation of states, including the United States, 1852 01:44:19.840 --> 01:44:23.279 like changed totally. I mean it so that there's it's 1853 01:44:23.279 --> 01:44:26.840 all of those things. But I you know, I uh I, 1854 01:44:27.399 --> 01:44:28.880 I'll go back to you in a minute to resonant 1855 01:44:28.880 --> 01:44:33.199 speaking for a long time, but if uh we we 1856 01:44:33.359 --> 01:44:36.079 we've got we've got a big tent in our in 1857 01:44:36.159 --> 01:44:38.199 our fiction and you know, in our in our kind 1858 01:44:38.199 --> 01:44:42.600 of resistance community. And that's and that's great. Okay, However, 1859 01:44:42.680 --> 01:44:44.359 if if you're like us, when I says like you 1860 01:44:44.439 --> 01:44:48.479 and myself, you know, people, there's a reason I emphasize, 1861 01:44:48.520 --> 01:44:50.720 you know, pros and Ulster as well as you know, 1862 01:44:51.399 --> 01:44:56.439 uh the uh, the uh, the boar, uh, the white 1863 01:44:56.479 --> 01:44:59.680 tribe in South Amerga because you know, like I said, 1864 01:44:59.720 --> 01:45:03.680 the experience is peculiar in ways that are about good 1865 01:45:03.720 --> 01:45:06.640 and bad, but you know, it's paralleled in places like 1866 01:45:06.760 --> 01:45:10.000 Northern Ireland and to an even greater degree in South Africa. 1867 01:45:10.159 --> 01:45:14.039 So not not only should we sympathize with these people 1868 01:45:14.159 --> 01:45:17.560 and and hold them in our hearts and in our 1869 01:45:17.720 --> 01:45:20.680 thoughts and prayers, but uh, there's also things that we 1870 01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:23.840 can extrap away from the situations respectively, you know. So 1871 01:45:23.960 --> 01:45:26.600 that's that's why I said that AFG is important, you know, 1872 01:45:26.680 --> 01:45:31.199 and not but STU Africaners generally a run apologetic people. 1873 01:45:31.279 --> 01:45:33.640 You know, they're probably who they are, and they don't like, 1874 01:45:33.800 --> 01:45:35.840 they don't care. They don't care if losers want to 1875 01:45:35.840 --> 01:45:37.680 put shade on them, because like why why would they? 1876 01:45:37.880 --> 01:45:39.640 You know what I mean? That's that's I want people 1877 01:45:39.680 --> 01:45:42.720 to adopt that attitude. You know, you people gotta people 1878 01:45:42.720 --> 01:45:45.039 gotta get over this, like social pressure like this, what 1879 01:45:45.119 --> 01:45:47.399 will the neighbors think? Bullshit? Okay, Like I'm not saying 1880 01:45:47.439 --> 01:45:49.199 everyone needs to live a life like me or something, 1881 01:45:49.319 --> 01:45:52.520 but you know, you people have to stop, you know, 1882 01:45:52.560 --> 01:45:54.600 this stuff like apologizing for being a right wing or 1883 01:45:54.640 --> 01:45:56.359 like thinking there's something like weird or wrong with it. 1884 01:45:56.520 --> 01:45:58.239 It's like the the people who hate you, we are 1885 01:45:58.239 --> 01:46:00.199 in the weirdos and the devians, you know. I mean, 1886 01:46:00.279 --> 01:46:03.079 like that's so that you know aver cons, you know, 1887 01:46:03.640 --> 01:46:05.520 they're they're admirable in a lot of ways, you know, 1888 01:46:05.600 --> 01:46:07.520 And that's that's that's kind of why I guess I 1889 01:46:07.600 --> 01:46:10.039 emphasize them and their situation a lot more than some 1890 01:46:10.159 --> 01:46:11.479 people might think it. 1891 01:46:11.600 --> 01:46:17.880 Well, I definitely share your admiration. And actually, uh and 1892 01:46:18.239 --> 01:46:20.439 I can. I will link this because this is one 1893 01:46:20.479 --> 01:46:24.840 of the I'm sure this may be different generation to generation, 1894 01:46:25.000 --> 01:46:28.520 but for me, they're kind of things on the Internet 1895 01:46:28.600 --> 01:46:30.800 that I can remember changing my life. You know, Like 1896 01:46:30.880 --> 01:46:32.840 some people like, oh, I remember where I was when, 1897 01:46:33.680 --> 01:46:35.720 you know, when when Kennedy was shot or something like that, 1898 01:46:35.760 --> 01:46:37.720 and that that's kind of a universal experience to one 1899 01:46:37.760 --> 01:46:42.079 degree or another. But to me, I remember, And this 1900 01:46:42.279 --> 01:46:45.119 is a conscious caricle. I'll link the episode I'm talking about. 1901 01:46:45.119 --> 01:46:46.720 I can't remember off the top of my head, but 1902 01:46:46.840 --> 01:46:49.359 he was talking with another guy in AFRO for him, 1903 01:46:50.199 --> 01:46:54.000 and they're basically saying like Okay, why don't you leave 1904 01:46:54.600 --> 01:46:58.199 because it's a bore. Not only are you legally discriminated against, 1905 01:46:58.399 --> 01:47:00.119 not just are people are rude to you, but it 1906 01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:03.119 is materially harder for you to get into college, to 1907 01:47:03.199 --> 01:47:05.119 get a job, to own a business for a variety 1908 01:47:05.159 --> 01:47:07.359 of reasons. You know that someone who's more educated can 1909 01:47:07.399 --> 01:47:10.600 explain to you, and not to mention that, but there 1910 01:47:10.680 --> 01:47:15.359 is a there is a active campaign to murder bores, right, 1911 01:47:15.439 --> 01:47:18.199 especially literally farmers, right, which is what bore means. But 1912 01:47:18.359 --> 01:47:21.600 essentially why South African farmers are being killed? Now, do 1913 01:47:21.760 --> 01:47:24.000 I mean that that it's like a full on you know, 1914 01:47:24.079 --> 01:47:27.560 like Soviet style genocide. No, but there is ethnic cleansing going. 1915 01:47:27.439 --> 01:47:28.520 On, yeah, definitely. 1916 01:47:29.479 --> 01:47:31.319 And what he basically said is he's like, look like, 1917 01:47:32.720 --> 01:47:35.560 what do you get if you run away? Like really, like, 1918 01:47:35.640 --> 01:47:37.720 what do you get? You go to somewhere else? It's 1919 01:47:37.760 --> 01:47:41.279 maybe a little bit better, but whatever, the thing, the entropy, 1920 01:47:41.560 --> 01:47:43.159 you know, the evil force in the world that is 1921 01:47:43.279 --> 01:47:45.640 making your home worse is going. 1922 01:47:45.560 --> 01:47:46.279 To find you there. 1923 01:47:46.880 --> 01:47:48.479 And so what he basically said is and he used 1924 01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:52.720 an analogy from the Boer War, right, which is, okay, well, 1925 01:47:52.720 --> 01:47:55.680 why do you dig a trench when you dig a trench, 1926 01:47:55.960 --> 01:47:57.840 and sometimes you have to fall back to dig a trench, 1927 01:47:57.920 --> 01:47:59.560 but you dig a trench, you have some more to fight. 1928 01:48:00.199 --> 01:48:02.840 And he basically said, look like this this place is 1929 01:48:02.920 --> 01:48:05.279 my home, you know, are my ancestors have been here 1930 01:48:05.479 --> 01:48:07.840 for you know, essentially as long as the US has 1931 01:48:07.880 --> 01:48:10.680 been settled, right, And he's like, look, look, I'm not 1932 01:48:10.800 --> 01:48:13.560 going to throw that away from my own personal comfort 1933 01:48:13.640 --> 01:48:15.399 because the things that I like about the place that 1934 01:48:15.479 --> 01:48:20.159 I lived, things that make it worth defending, are there 1935 01:48:20.279 --> 01:48:22.960 because someone essentially put in the blood, sweat and tears 1936 01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:25.680 to put it there. And so he basically said, he's like, look, look, 1937 01:48:25.680 --> 01:48:28.000 I'm not going to give up my home. And to me, 1938 01:48:28.119 --> 01:48:29.840 this was particularly impactful because I was kind of in 1939 01:48:29.880 --> 01:48:32.359 a situation where I was I had just moved away 1940 01:48:32.479 --> 01:48:34.880 from my small town to a bigger city to essentially 1941 01:48:35.199 --> 01:48:37.279 make more money. I was kind of looking around her 1942 01:48:37.279 --> 01:48:38.680 like what the hell am I doing? You know, like, 1943 01:48:38.760 --> 01:48:40.560 really like, if I have these beliefs, if I have 1944 01:48:40.680 --> 01:48:42.319 whatever you want to call them, you know, right wing 1945 01:48:42.600 --> 01:48:44.920 or normal, as I have kind of you know, prefer 1946 01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:47.960 to call them like that kind of requires a certain 1947 01:48:48.000 --> 01:48:51.119 amount of personal sacrifice, and to me, I've always admired 1948 01:48:51.119 --> 01:48:54.560 the africaners for that because they are they are not living. 1949 01:48:54.319 --> 01:48:55.039 An easy life. 1950 01:48:55.479 --> 01:48:58.039 You know, they could very easily move to the Netherlands, 1951 01:48:58.239 --> 01:48:59.760 you know, most sympathetic culture. 1952 01:49:00.199 --> 01:49:02.399 Yeah, it's also something I want to point out, and 1953 01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:04.640 I mean sinding like this in my fiction a lot, 1954 01:49:04.720 --> 01:49:06.600 because it seems to be a better platform for it 1955 01:49:06.640 --> 01:49:11.159 because it is somewhat abstract. But you know, in addition 1956 01:49:11.239 --> 01:49:13.000 to the ethical issue, like, yeah, you don't just like 1957 01:49:13.119 --> 01:49:15.000 up and run away from your home. Like one of 1958 01:49:15.039 --> 01:49:16.359 the points I always make to people. One of the 1959 01:49:16.399 --> 01:49:20.720 reasons America has problems this idea that if there's a 1960 01:49:20.840 --> 01:49:24.000 war or a depression, you just up and run away 1961 01:49:24.039 --> 01:49:26.920 to America from your home. Like people who just drop 1962 01:49:27.039 --> 01:49:30.279 everything and turn their back on their family, their culture, 1963 01:49:30.319 --> 01:49:33.960 their language, their heritage. Those are weird people, and often 1964 01:49:34.199 --> 01:49:36.920 they've got something really wrong with them. Okay, So I 1965 01:49:37.000 --> 01:49:39.960 mean this idea that like, oh, there's a war in Syria, 1966 01:49:40.359 --> 01:49:42.479 everybody should empty out of the country and move to 1967 01:49:42.560 --> 01:49:45.479 America as you know, refugees or as a people who 1968 01:49:45.479 --> 01:49:48.840 need asylum. Like, yeah, that's a coward's move and a 1969 01:49:48.920 --> 01:49:51.760 fool's errand, and it means you don't actually stand for anything. 1970 01:49:51.840 --> 01:49:54.399 You don't care about what counts. But also you know, 1971 01:49:54.560 --> 01:49:57.479 maybe it's because maybe maybe you have to be older 1972 01:49:57.520 --> 01:50:00.840 to recognize this, or maybe it's just you know, like 1973 01:50:00.920 --> 01:50:04.680 like Heideger pointed out when he when he dealt with consciousness, 1974 01:50:04.720 --> 01:50:06.239 and this is becoming more and more of the four 1975 01:50:06.520 --> 01:50:10.039 is having you know, a scientific basis, you know, epigenetic 1976 01:50:10.119 --> 01:50:13.960 epigenetic memory and things like you really are kind of 1977 01:50:13.960 --> 01:50:18.399 the progeny of generations before, okay, and there's this kind 1978 01:50:18.439 --> 01:50:21.279 of shared consciousness that you know, it's not heritable like 1979 01:50:21.359 --> 01:50:26.000 your eye color, your hair color, but it is heritable. Okay. 1980 01:50:26.239 --> 01:50:29.680 So I mean that's what endures after you die. Okay, 1981 01:50:29.800 --> 01:50:31.760 that's what's perennial. You know, that's what it is to 1982 01:50:31.760 --> 01:50:34.479 live historically just saying like, yeah, I'm just gonna like 1983 01:50:34.520 --> 01:50:37.600 cut off my culture and you know, alienate myself from 1984 01:50:37.680 --> 01:50:40.319 history and just become you know, this kind of anonymous 1985 01:50:40.399 --> 01:50:43.600 person in this geography of nowhere. Like it's kind of 1986 01:50:43.640 --> 01:50:47.560 a way of like committing homicide against yourself metaphysically, Okay, 1987 01:50:47.680 --> 01:50:50.800 I mean, like it's and against like your entire lineage. 1988 01:50:50.960 --> 01:50:52.880 I mean it uh, if it was just you would 1989 01:50:52.880 --> 01:50:55.920 be a suicide. But it you know, there's something there's 1990 01:50:55.960 --> 01:50:58.199 something wrong with people who think that way. And also 1991 01:50:58.279 --> 01:51:00.800 it's just more pragmatically just getting this point will turn 1992 01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:03.640 over you. People tell me that, like because they say 1993 01:51:03.680 --> 01:51:06.279 they you like, Chicago's in a hell hole. It's like, well, 1994 01:51:06.359 --> 01:51:08.600 I'm from here, man, and like to your point, what 1995 01:51:08.640 --> 01:51:09.840 am I gonna do. I'm just gonna like run to 1996 01:51:09.920 --> 01:51:12.119 some random town or like I don't know anybody, I 1997 01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:14.359 don't fit in with people. I'm not really familiar with 1998 01:51:14.439 --> 01:51:16.760 the customs, you know, like like why would I do that? 1999 01:51:16.840 --> 01:51:18.279 Like why would that be better? So it could be 2000 01:51:18.319 --> 01:51:20.760 some weird old guy who's like, yeah, there's no you know, 2001 01:51:20.840 --> 01:51:23.119 there's there's no you know, there's no stupid immigrants around 2002 01:51:23.199 --> 01:51:25.079 and no black people. It's like, Okay, that's dope. But 2003 01:51:25.199 --> 01:51:27.760 like I sit in my house and be happy that 2004 01:51:27.840 --> 01:51:31.600 there's not like you know, like like like like these 2005 01:51:31.680 --> 01:51:35.079 problem populations around whatever, Like that's not That's like an 2006 01:51:35.079 --> 01:51:38.960 autistic way figuratively and literally of like looking at life 2007 01:51:39.039 --> 01:51:41.199 and and and the circumstances we find ourselves in. 2008 01:51:41.479 --> 01:51:44.880 Yeah, go ahead, Well and to me, look, I'm I'm 2009 01:51:44.920 --> 01:51:47.800 no catholic, but I think that you know, you don't 2010 01:51:47.840 --> 01:51:49.720 have to be to kind of recognize the genius in 2011 01:51:49.800 --> 01:51:55.760 Dante and his circle for userers and sodomites, you know, 2012 01:51:55.800 --> 01:51:59.520 people who essentially produce money, you know, out of money 2013 01:51:59.640 --> 01:52:01.960 for its sake, and people who essentially you know, have 2014 01:52:02.079 --> 01:52:04.600 sex for sex's sake, you know, in the Catholic understanding. 2015 01:52:05.119 --> 01:52:07.680 But what he basically describes them as doing is kind 2016 01:52:07.720 --> 01:52:11.640 of like endlessly tilling a desert, right, like doing the 2017 01:52:11.720 --> 01:52:15.319 work without reaping anything. And to me, there's this kind 2018 01:52:15.359 --> 01:52:19.640 of analogy between that and this like weird listless cosmopolitan 2019 01:52:19.760 --> 01:52:21.880 you know kind of I will go to anywhere as 2020 01:52:21.920 --> 01:52:24.560 long as they have a Starbucks, right, which is like 2021 01:52:24.640 --> 01:52:28.159 these people are just so odd and disconnected from kind 2022 01:52:28.199 --> 01:52:31.319 of like the things that make you, the things that 2023 01:52:31.399 --> 01:52:33.600 make you human, you know. And part of that is 2024 01:52:33.680 --> 01:52:35.720 like a place in a community, and you can't just 2025 01:52:35.960 --> 01:52:38.359 move that and have it be the same, you know, 2026 01:52:38.399 --> 01:52:41.560 it is tied to a place, and to me, it 2027 01:52:41.640 --> 01:52:43.119 all goes back to this big distinction. 2028 01:52:43.640 --> 01:52:43.760 You know. 2029 01:52:43.840 --> 01:52:46.439 There there's a you know, some British conservative wrote a 2030 01:52:47.199 --> 01:52:50.239 you know, a typically tepid article about this, right, but 2031 01:52:50.319 --> 01:52:52.000 he essentially broke it down to like, well, are you 2032 01:52:52.079 --> 01:52:54.960 as somewhere or in anywhere type of person, you know, 2033 01:52:55.000 --> 01:52:57.560 and that's that's a fundamental difference. And to me, these 2034 01:52:57.600 --> 01:52:59.560 people are like and I'm sure you may you may 2035 01:52:59.560 --> 01:53:01.880 have met these people, but there's there's like a growing 2036 01:53:02.039 --> 01:53:04.800 tide of you know, millennials and gen z who are 2037 01:53:05.239 --> 01:53:08.439 you know, actively anti natalist, you know, the idea that like, 2038 01:53:08.520 --> 01:53:11.399 oh my my bloodline dies with me. And to me, 2039 01:53:11.479 --> 01:53:15.159 it's this weird, odd, like radically selfish way of living 2040 01:53:15.600 --> 01:53:18.319 where the ultimate goal of your life is essentially to 2041 01:53:18.479 --> 01:53:22.239 like increase your like u tols of pleasure, you know, 2042 01:53:22.279 --> 01:53:24.920 and the idea that you could be called called to 2043 01:53:25.079 --> 01:53:27.600 give anything of yourself, you know, to a people, to 2044 01:53:27.720 --> 01:53:30.439 a place, you know, to even your own lineage. It's 2045 01:53:30.520 --> 01:53:31.600 just incomprehensible and. 2046 01:53:31.600 --> 01:53:34.960 I think it speaks to Yeah, it's also weirdly self defeating, 2047 01:53:35.439 --> 01:53:37.239 like it's kind of like, yeah, in addition to it 2048 01:53:37.439 --> 01:53:40.359 being like kind of you know, it's it's like it's 2049 01:53:40.399 --> 01:53:42.960 a you know, it's like sociopathic in in in the 2050 01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:45.479 way that dullards off and are. But I mean, even 2051 01:53:45.479 --> 01:53:48.079 if you're basically a shitty person, it's like an own goal, 2052 01:53:48.600 --> 01:53:50.960 you know, Like it's like Okay, so you're gonna you're 2053 01:53:51.000 --> 01:53:53.359 just gonna remove yourself from history. It's like that means 2054 01:53:53.399 --> 01:53:55.279 you like don't matter, you know what I mean. It's 2055 01:53:55.319 --> 01:53:57.239 like that means like you have to speaking anything, and 2056 01:53:57.319 --> 01:53:59.239 it's a it means you're basically like you're you're kind 2057 01:53:59.239 --> 01:54:01.279 of like a punk, you know. It's like you're you're 2058 01:54:01.399 --> 01:54:03.439 you're one of the expendables, You're one of the nobody's 2059 01:54:03.760 --> 01:54:06.720 because it's like, you know, other lineages are gonna exist perennially, 2060 01:54:07.479 --> 01:54:10.640 and yeah, pretty much everybody, Well I think this, you know, 2061 01:54:10.760 --> 01:54:12.119 I don't want to go too far a field, but 2062 01:54:12.439 --> 01:54:14.319 some of I think that's what some of what understood, 2063 01:54:14.399 --> 01:54:16.920 like the COVID nonsense, Like people have some idea in 2064 01:54:16.960 --> 01:54:19.479 this country, like they're not gonna die, like they really do, 2065 01:54:19.920 --> 01:54:22.319 like subconstantly, they can't come to terms with dying and 2066 01:54:22.399 --> 01:54:23.880 so they just like for ten they're never it's never 2067 01:54:23.920 --> 01:54:26.239 gonna happen. So it's like, so I think some of 2068 01:54:26.279 --> 01:54:28.920 these people they are like they figure like they can't 2069 01:54:28.960 --> 01:54:30.960 accept that so that they just can't they can't envision 2070 01:54:31.000 --> 01:54:33.640 a future without them, So it doesn't register that like, well, 2071 01:54:33.720 --> 01:54:35.920 I'm not gonna be here very long, you know, and 2072 01:54:36.000 --> 01:54:38.359 I'm a part of something that's perennial, you know, and 2073 01:54:38.399 --> 01:54:40.319 I've got to make sure that that's in place before 2074 01:54:40.359 --> 01:54:42.479 i go. They're just like, oh, I'm never gonna get die, 2075 01:54:42.520 --> 01:54:44.720 So why wouldn't want kids? They cost money? And then 2076 01:54:44.760 --> 01:54:46.720 I can't go out and do fun things. Like it 2077 01:54:46.760 --> 01:54:49.479 doesn't it doesn't compute that, like they're gonna die soon, 2078 01:54:49.560 --> 01:54:53.079 because nobody lives very long, you know, like like eighty 2079 01:54:53.159 --> 01:54:55.720 or ninety years actually is not a long time. There's 2080 01:54:55.720 --> 01:54:58.479 freaking parrots that live longer than that nine average, you know, 2081 01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:00.479 like humans. That's what I'm not a big fan of 2082 01:55:00.560 --> 01:55:03.000 toll kind I'm like a Frank Kerbert guy, you know, 2083 01:55:03.079 --> 01:55:06.000 in toll Kinds books, like the races, you know, like 2084 01:55:06.079 --> 01:55:09.479 the elves and like the and the the dwarfs and stuff, 2085 01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:12.560 like all these races live like thousands of years. But man, like, 2086 01:55:12.680 --> 01:55:15.640 is this incredibly short lived being? Like that's actually true, 2087 01:55:15.800 --> 01:55:19.359 Like for it's it's weird that humans basically are or 2088 01:55:19.439 --> 01:55:21.359 like you know, they they they've got everything on the 2089 01:55:21.399 --> 01:55:24.880 animal kingdom in every sense, but like but as a species, 2090 01:55:24.960 --> 01:55:26.800 like people are only here for like the blink of 2091 01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:30.800 an eye, you know, So it's you're in some basic way, 2092 01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:34.359 you're you're like unable to live life as an adult 2093 01:55:34.439 --> 01:55:36.600 man or an adult lady. If your notion is I 2094 01:55:36.720 --> 01:55:39.359 never want kids, It's like, well, okay, man, but before 2095 01:55:39.399 --> 01:55:40.760 you know it, you're gonna be an old person and 2096 01:55:40.800 --> 01:55:43.199 you're gonna die. You're not gonna stay some like perpetual 2097 01:55:43.239 --> 01:55:46.680 adolessent forever, you know, like it, you know, and it's 2098 01:55:46.760 --> 01:55:49.560 like they can't handle it, you know, so it's uh, 2099 01:55:50.840 --> 01:55:52.960 you know I I I really believe that, And that's 2100 01:55:53.039 --> 01:55:55.000 why this that's why I like when the government claims 2101 01:55:55.039 --> 01:55:58.239 the seasonal few the seasonal flu is like a global emergency. 2102 01:55:58.640 --> 01:56:00.880 Like people like freak out because on some level, but 2103 01:56:01.560 --> 01:56:05.279 it forces them to confront reality. They're like, well, yeah, 2104 01:56:05.319 --> 01:56:06.279 you could die at any time. 2105 01:56:06.479 --> 01:56:06.640 You know. 2106 01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:10.760 It's I mean, yeah, you're absolutely right, but it's also 2107 01:56:10.880 --> 01:56:14.079 too like yeah, I but it's also too there is 2108 01:56:14.119 --> 01:56:15.800 an upshot to that. I mean, I realize people like 2109 01:56:15.840 --> 01:56:17.600 I'm gonna lead this. I'm kind of like a mean person, 2110 01:56:17.840 --> 01:56:21.119 but like like these like these like like these these 2111 01:56:21.159 --> 01:56:23.760 freak to talk about. You know, they're like ugly people 2112 01:56:23.800 --> 01:56:27.079 inside and out. And I don't sit around hating people 2113 01:56:27.239 --> 01:56:30.279 or want bad things, damnited people. But if these people 2114 01:56:30.319 --> 01:56:32.640 want to remove themselves from history, I've got no problem 2115 01:56:32.680 --> 01:56:35.119 with that. I don't want these people around in five 2116 01:56:35.199 --> 01:56:37.199 hundred years, you know what I mean. So it's like, 2117 01:56:37.479 --> 01:56:39.840 go ahead, you know. I mean, it's unfortunate that they're 2118 01:56:39.840 --> 01:56:41.680 able to poison the culture well the way they are, 2119 01:56:41.800 --> 01:56:44.600 but it's you know, we they're they're not our people, man, 2120 01:56:44.680 --> 01:56:48.199 They're they're they're they're really really damaged people, and we 2121 01:56:48.239 --> 01:56:50.000 don't we don't want them, we don't need them. So 2122 01:56:50.279 --> 01:56:52.560 li' like that right? 2123 01:56:52.880 --> 01:56:55.159 To me? It it reminds me of and I've only 2124 01:56:55.199 --> 01:56:58.479 read the intro to the book, but it's, uh, it's 2125 01:56:58.720 --> 01:56:59.640 it's unkilling. 2126 01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:02.399 I think it's David Mark, David. 2127 01:57:02.239 --> 01:57:04.439 Gross that gu's a big fraud. 2128 01:57:04.479 --> 01:57:07.279 But yeah, go ahead, so fair enough, right, And I 2129 01:57:07.359 --> 01:57:09.760 haven't actually read the book because I wasn't really interested 2130 01:57:09.800 --> 01:57:13.479 in the book, but his intro to it is he 2131 01:57:13.600 --> 01:57:16.319 makes a compelling argument, and what he basically says is, 2132 01:57:16.359 --> 01:57:20.840 look like people have become radically like I guess, like 2133 01:57:21.640 --> 01:57:25.640 detached from birth and death. So he's basically saying, like, 2134 01:57:25.720 --> 01:57:27.680 look like, if you can imagine kind of an average 2135 01:57:27.840 --> 01:57:30.159 human over the last however long of you know, of 2136 01:57:30.279 --> 01:57:32.520 human history, that's difficult to say. But he's like, look 2137 01:57:32.600 --> 01:57:35.000 like that existence was one in which you came into 2138 01:57:35.079 --> 01:57:38.159 contact with birth and death on a fairly regular basis. Right, 2139 01:57:38.560 --> 01:57:41.479 You had animals, You had a multi generational family, and 2140 01:57:41.640 --> 01:57:44.000 so you know what, like obviously you didn't just live 2141 01:57:44.079 --> 01:57:45.880 as kind of a you know, a nuclear family with 2142 01:57:45.960 --> 01:57:48.159 mom and dad and your grandparents. If they die, they 2143 01:57:48.239 --> 01:57:51.439 die in a home somewhere. Right, Well, your grandparents, if 2144 01:57:51.479 --> 01:57:53.800 they died, they died in your house. You probably had 2145 01:57:53.840 --> 01:57:56.800 siblings who died, and so death was a like a 2146 01:57:57.319 --> 01:57:59.760 prescient reality in your life. You know, it wasn't something 2147 01:57:59.800 --> 01:58:02.479 to be kind of like pushed to the side. And 2148 01:58:02.560 --> 01:58:05.159 it's interesting because you're right, he may be a fraud, 2149 01:58:05.439 --> 01:58:07.439 but I have a I have a one of my 2150 01:58:07.520 --> 01:58:10.560 best my best friend. His family, in addition to owning 2151 01:58:10.600 --> 01:58:12.880 a cattle ranch, also runs you know, a small town 2152 01:58:12.960 --> 01:58:15.920 funeral home. Oh wow, and what they talk about because 2153 01:58:15.920 --> 01:58:19.680 it's because it's multigenerational, right, And yeah, yeah, and he's 2154 01:58:19.720 --> 01:58:22.239 got his his grandfather, who has you know, been running 2155 01:58:22.279 --> 01:58:24.479 it since the fifties, who's now, you know, eighty five, 2156 01:58:25.079 --> 01:58:28.159 And he's talking about the difference of how people react 2157 01:58:28.199 --> 01:58:30.439 to death, Like, no one wants an open casket, No 2158 01:58:30.520 --> 01:58:33.319 one wants to see a dead body. Everyone just wants there, 2159 01:58:33.520 --> 01:58:36.399 you know. Once Grandma cremated, stuck in to earn and 2160 01:58:36.479 --> 01:58:38.520 he's like, look like it's kind of killing the business 2161 01:58:38.600 --> 01:58:42.479 of funeral homes because people are so radically like derascinated 2162 01:58:42.520 --> 01:58:44.720 they can't even be bothered to essentially show up to 2163 01:58:44.720 --> 01:58:47.640 their dad's funeral, you know, because that's not only an imposition, 2164 01:58:47.760 --> 01:58:50.359 but that requires you to kind of acknowledge mortality. 2165 01:58:52.000 --> 01:58:56.359 Yeah, no, exactly. What's also that's part of why I 2166 01:58:56.479 --> 01:58:58.760 believe in it. Yeah, gros Grossman's to jig go off, 2167 01:58:58.760 --> 01:59:01.000 but he was right about that. But I'll also point out, 2168 01:59:01.039 --> 01:59:04.520 you know, women used to die constantly in childbirth and 2169 01:59:04.680 --> 01:59:07.840 bring bring you know, because it's it's really I mean, 2170 01:59:08.359 --> 01:59:09.680 if you think about it, I want I don't want 2171 01:59:09.680 --> 01:59:12.159 to upset people or be or be crass about it, 2172 01:59:12.279 --> 01:59:14.279 but it's really incredibly you know, like a woman giving 2173 01:59:14.359 --> 01:59:16.600 birth to a baby naturalill that like terrors her body 2174 01:59:16.640 --> 01:59:19.600 apart and uh finishally, you know, if you don't have 2175 01:59:19.640 --> 01:59:22.600 modern medicine and things, it's like sharads are probably like 2176 01:59:22.720 --> 01:59:25.279 fifty to fifty you know. So, I mean it's like 2177 01:59:25.720 --> 01:59:29.079 you become a woman, like you basically grow up when 2178 01:59:29.079 --> 01:59:30.880 you come to terms with the fact you're gonna die. 2179 01:59:30.960 --> 01:59:32.760 And if you're a man, that usually comes from the hunt, 2180 01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:34.680 or it comes from you know, going to war, or 2181 01:59:34.720 --> 01:59:36.640 it comes from some kind of rite of passage, like 2182 01:59:36.800 --> 01:59:38.680 nature makes you a woman because that's when you are 2183 01:59:38.720 --> 01:59:41.359 able to get pregnant. But it's like, so every lady 2184 01:59:41.399 --> 01:59:43.680 who survived, you know, when she got pregnant as a 2185 01:59:43.720 --> 01:59:46.680 teenage girl, you know, she was very aware, like when 2186 01:59:46.720 --> 01:59:48.239 this child comes out of me, you might tear me 2187 01:59:48.279 --> 01:59:50.640 apart and kill me. I just bleed out, you know. 2188 01:59:51.439 --> 01:59:53.000 So if you live through it, it's like that's part 2189 01:59:53.039 --> 01:59:56.840 of how you become an adult, you know. And and yeah, 2190 01:59:56.960 --> 01:59:58.920 coming one of the things that under likes marriage, you 2191 01:59:58.960 --> 02:00:03.000 know obviously is bare is is can't be extricated from 2192 02:00:03.000 --> 02:00:03.960 the procreative function. 2193 02:00:05.239 --> 02:00:05.399 You know. 2194 02:00:05.479 --> 02:00:08.119 That's that's kind of when you become an adult, you know, 2195 02:00:08.159 --> 02:00:10.479 when you come to view yourself as a as a parent, 2196 02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:12.760 and also kind to terms with your point you know, 2197 02:00:12.880 --> 02:00:14.720 like life and death. You know, that's one of the 2198 02:00:14.760 --> 02:00:16.920 reasons who like the gay subculture. I mean, there's a 2199 02:00:16.960 --> 02:00:20.800 lot there that it's you know, that is that is psychosocial. 2200 02:00:20.920 --> 02:00:23.760 It's not simply about sexuality. And part of it is 2201 02:00:23.920 --> 02:00:26.720 it's about like never never becoming an adult. You know. 2202 02:00:27.119 --> 02:00:29.239 It's about like never looking at women as anything other 2203 02:00:29.319 --> 02:00:31.640 than your moni and never looking at them as you know, uh, 2204 02:00:33.079 --> 02:00:35.680 romantic partners. You know. It's about never like acting like 2205 02:00:35.720 --> 02:00:36.279 a grown man. 2206 02:00:36.640 --> 02:00:36.760 You know. 2207 02:00:36.840 --> 02:00:38.800 It's about like never accepting that you know you're gonna 2208 02:00:38.800 --> 02:00:41.119 get old, you know. I mean that's all these things 2209 02:00:41.159 --> 02:00:42.439 are bound up together. You know. 2210 02:00:43.159 --> 02:00:46.159 Well, I think you see that in and essentially like 2211 02:00:46.239 --> 02:00:47.920 a lot of like tender right, and a lot of 2212 02:00:48.000 --> 02:00:52.119 heterosexual dating apps essentially stole there, not stole there because 2213 02:00:52.560 --> 02:00:54.680 it was it was deliberately in the same company in 2214 02:00:54.760 --> 02:00:57.800 many cases, basically stole their model from the gay community. 2215 02:00:58.199 --> 02:00:58.279 Right. 2216 02:00:58.399 --> 02:01:00.840 It's like hypergamy, you know, like kind of like wheeling 2217 02:01:00.880 --> 02:01:04.640 and dealing through sexual interactions, and it is it is 2218 02:01:04.840 --> 02:01:09.199 profoundly it is adolescent in the idea that like if 2219 02:01:09.239 --> 02:01:11.760 you're talking about like you kind of become a man, 2220 02:01:11.840 --> 02:01:14.560 you become a woman, you know, through this kind of 2221 02:01:14.680 --> 02:01:17.560 like dangerous act you know, first, you know, being married 2222 02:01:17.600 --> 02:01:19.640 and then you know later childbirth right is it immensely 2223 02:01:19.720 --> 02:01:23.560 physically risky, right, Like you kind of become, you ascend 2224 02:01:24.119 --> 02:01:27.159 kind of like through you know, the stages of life 2225 02:01:27.279 --> 02:01:30.399 by essentially adopting more and more kind of ties to 2226 02:01:30.520 --> 02:01:31.720 your community into others. 2227 02:01:32.119 --> 02:01:34.439 Well, yeah, and think about it like this too, And 2228 02:01:35.399 --> 02:01:37.359 it's it's it's it's good, it's important. It's good you 2229 02:01:37.439 --> 02:01:39.199 raise that point. I mean, I'm a lot older than you, 2230 02:01:39.520 --> 02:01:42.680 so I it might not impact you as much, but 2231 02:01:42.840 --> 02:01:44.720 it When I hear people in my age, like people 2232 02:01:44.720 --> 02:01:46.800 in four to fifties talk about quote dating, I'm like, 2233 02:01:46.840 --> 02:01:48.439 what are you talking about? You wanted the senior prom? 2234 02:01:48.960 --> 02:01:49.079 You know. 2235 02:01:49.159 --> 02:01:51.119 It's like I, if I wanted a wife, if I'd 2236 02:01:51.119 --> 02:01:53.159 start like living around for you know, a lady a 2237 02:01:53.159 --> 02:01:55.159 little bit younger than me, because I'm I'm an old guy, 2238 02:01:55.319 --> 02:01:57.439 I'd be looking for a lady who's like thirty thirty five, 2239 02:01:57.840 --> 02:01:59.680 you know, who could still get pregnant. But if I 2240 02:02:00.119 --> 02:02:02.399 you know, I, I've got no business hanging around girls 2241 02:02:02.479 --> 02:02:05.479 unless i'm women rather, I mean I and unless I'm 2242 02:02:05.520 --> 02:02:08.359 looking for a wife, Like what we're gonna want to date? To? 2243 02:02:08.399 --> 02:02:11.000 The movies? Like what we're gonna go to the senior 2244 02:02:11.079 --> 02:02:13.319 prom like, I don't know, you don't talk about quote 2245 02:02:13.359 --> 02:02:15.640 nute dating when you're forty six years old. You know, 2246 02:02:15.840 --> 02:02:17.199 like if you're going if if if you want to 2247 02:02:17.239 --> 02:02:19.159 get married, that's great, you know, that's how you should do. 2248 02:02:19.279 --> 02:02:22.239 But then you're looking for a wife, you know, it's 2249 02:02:22.359 --> 02:02:24.439 you're you're not You're not quote unquote dating like that. 2250 02:02:24.560 --> 02:02:26.760 That's how you do when you're seventeen years old, you know, 2251 02:02:26.800 --> 02:02:27.039 when you. 2252 02:02:27.159 --> 02:02:28.920 Like, yeah you get to take dad's car out for 2253 02:02:29.039 --> 02:02:29.399 the weekend. 2254 02:02:29.479 --> 02:02:31.399 Yeah, you get used. Yeah, it's like how you learn 2255 02:02:31.439 --> 02:02:33.199 how to talk to girls and not be a goof 2256 02:02:33.279 --> 02:02:35.199 and like you know and in some girls like learn 2257 02:02:35.279 --> 02:02:37.600 to like not be freaked out by men, like yeah, okay, 2258 02:02:37.680 --> 02:02:40.239 it's like you're not you know, yeah, yeah, it's not 2259 02:02:40.680 --> 02:02:42.439 I'm not just I'm not just being some jig off 2260 02:02:42.600 --> 02:02:46.039 like you know, English language snob like that that actually 2261 02:02:46.119 --> 02:02:48.439 is really really perverse to hear people talk that way, 2262 02:02:48.560 --> 02:02:50.960 you know, like at uh and yeah, well it's also 2263 02:02:51.079 --> 02:02:54.640 too like that's why that's why the government pushes homosexuality 2264 02:02:54.680 --> 02:02:56.359 so much. I mean, part of it's because they're constantly 2265 02:02:56.439 --> 02:02:59.800 looking for like, you know, metaphorical solvents you know, to 2266 02:03:00.479 --> 02:03:02.840 you know, to kind of break the bonds that are 2267 02:03:03.680 --> 02:03:06.920 organically occurring between people socially for the purpose of you know, 2268 02:03:07.039 --> 02:03:13.000 engineering their behavior and and eradicating cultural modalities that you know, 2269 02:03:13.079 --> 02:03:16.399 people be as authoritative. But it's also uh that that's 2270 02:03:16.399 --> 02:03:18.760 considered like the ideal, like like men and women wally 2271 02:03:18.800 --> 02:03:20.399 get together because it's like some kind of like sex 2272 02:03:20.479 --> 02:03:23.319 consumer choice. There's nothing to do with family. He's nothing 2273 02:03:23.319 --> 02:03:25.880 to do with pregnancy. Like I remember telling my guy, 2274 02:03:25.880 --> 02:03:28.279 I actually liked your generation. I don't bash like zoomers 2275 02:03:28.279 --> 02:03:31.199 and millennials, but this one guy, he's not like in 2276 02:03:31.279 --> 02:03:34.640 our He's not in our he's not in our circles. 2277 02:03:34.640 --> 02:03:37.560 He's just like a dude, I know. And uh, you 2278 02:03:37.640 --> 02:03:41.119 know he was uh he was. He was freaked out 2279 02:03:41.199 --> 02:03:44.239 about uh like a pregnancy scare. And I told him, like, look, man, 2280 02:03:44.319 --> 02:03:47.359 I'm like, if you've got no BIS basic I told 2281 02:03:47.399 --> 02:03:49.119 him basically, you know, ms, you've got no biss having 2282 02:03:49.159 --> 02:03:50.920 sex with a girl. If you're worried about getting are pregnant, 2283 02:03:51.000 --> 02:03:52.840 that's what happens and you have sex with women. And 2284 02:03:52.960 --> 02:03:55.680 he like, actually, like I was saying crazy things, you know, 2285 02:03:55.760 --> 02:03:57.359 like he did. He like he was silent, but I 2286 02:03:57.399 --> 02:03:59.239 could tell by look in his face, so like he's thinking, Wow, 2287 02:03:59.279 --> 02:04:01.039 this this old guy. It's like some muktaes or some 2288 02:04:01.119 --> 02:04:05.760 like Holy Ruler. It's like it's like, so it's like 2289 02:04:05.880 --> 02:04:08.039 nuts to you that, like, you know, you shouldn't have 2290 02:04:08.079 --> 02:04:10.039 sex with girls that you don't that you aren't okay 2291 02:04:10.079 --> 02:04:11.520 with getting pregnant. It's like, well, what do you think 2292 02:04:11.600 --> 02:04:12.279 sexy is a man? 2293 02:04:12.600 --> 02:04:12.720 You know? 2294 02:04:12.840 --> 02:04:15.039 I mean, like what why do you think it exists? 2295 02:04:15.560 --> 02:04:15.840 You know what? 2296 02:04:17.119 --> 02:04:19.640 It's so odd to me because going back to kind 2297 02:04:19.680 --> 02:04:21.560 of what we were talking about, how like so many people, 2298 02:04:21.760 --> 02:04:23.760 you know, specifically South Africa, but also in this case, 2299 02:04:23.840 --> 02:04:25.920 kind of don't really think of things. They just kind 2300 02:04:25.960 --> 02:04:30.640 of like absorb, you know, broader cultural ideas. I really 2301 02:04:30.720 --> 02:04:32.880 do feel bad for people. And I'm sure you've seen 2302 02:04:32.960 --> 02:04:37.439 people like this who essentially kind of think that their 2303 02:04:37.720 --> 02:04:40.479 early twenties are going to go on forever. And you know, 2304 02:04:40.520 --> 02:04:42.560 I think this is especially apparent with women, but I 2305 02:04:42.600 --> 02:04:44.920 think we're deluding ourselves if this hasn't happened to men too. 2306 02:04:45.199 --> 02:04:49.680 Oh definitely, essentially just you know, live hard, you know, 2307 02:04:49.760 --> 02:04:51.640 have a three digit body count, and then are wondering 2308 02:04:51.680 --> 02:04:54.159 why they can't settle down and be normal at thirty eight, 2309 02:04:54.279 --> 02:04:56.800 and you're like, well, did you think this was all 2310 02:04:56.840 --> 02:04:57.119 a game? 2311 02:04:57.640 --> 02:04:59.479 Right? Like your life is your life. And the idea 2312 02:04:59.520 --> 02:05:00.199 that like, oh, you. 2313 02:05:00.239 --> 02:05:04.479 Can just waste ten years doing you know, essentially nothing 2314 02:05:04.680 --> 02:05:07.039 and have that be you know, it's a choice you 2315 02:05:07.520 --> 02:05:08.439 are kind of untouched by. 2316 02:05:08.479 --> 02:05:10.520 It's very odd to me, and look, I get it, 2317 02:05:10.600 --> 02:05:11.479 I'm twenty three. 2318 02:05:11.800 --> 02:05:14.119 Ten years is a whole lot of my life proportionally, 2319 02:05:14.640 --> 02:05:17.359 you know, but still like there's this weird idea that 2320 02:05:17.399 --> 02:05:20.279 you can essentially not you personally, but you know, like 2321 02:05:20.359 --> 02:05:23.560 the cultural you can kind of just like do whatever 2322 02:05:23.680 --> 02:05:26.279 you want and grow up later and just keep pushing 2323 02:05:26.359 --> 02:05:26.760 that back. 2324 02:05:27.319 --> 02:05:29.960 No, it's totally nuts. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. It 2325 02:05:30.000 --> 02:05:32.159 does impact men. It impacts men in different ways, but 2326 02:05:32.199 --> 02:05:34.840 they're they're just as bad as females. Like you're gonna 2327 02:05:34.840 --> 02:05:37.520 have ambanishing females. I mean anything but a white Knight 2328 02:05:37.560 --> 02:05:40.039 if anything. Like, it's weird people in my generatingal Coudert 2329 02:05:40.039 --> 02:05:41.359 tell me I much some kind of savage for the 2330 02:05:41.359 --> 02:05:43.720 way it talk to and about women. But then like 2331 02:05:43.800 --> 02:05:46.239 these internet goes like You're it's like, no, I'm just 2332 02:05:46.319 --> 02:05:48.760 saying like women aren't any better or any worse than men, 2333 02:05:48.840 --> 02:05:50.319 And if you got an act men with women, you're 2334 02:05:50.319 --> 02:05:53.000 being a loser, you know, like it, they're just different 2335 02:05:53.199 --> 02:05:55.199 and like men are just as bad women maturity, just 2336 02:05:55.239 --> 02:05:57.079 in a different way because men and women are different. 2337 02:05:57.199 --> 02:06:01.000 But but yeah, I'm also in my I guess you know. 2338 02:06:01.039 --> 02:06:02.640 I made this point again and again, and I'm I'm 2339 02:06:02.640 --> 02:06:05.199 just talking shit, I'm really serious. Like the worst time 2340 02:06:05.239 --> 02:06:07.279 in my life was as a teenager and a guy 2341 02:06:07.319 --> 02:06:08.960 in his early twenties. I didn't know what the hell 2342 02:06:08.960 --> 02:06:11.880 I was doing. I was, I was, I was scared 2343 02:06:11.920 --> 02:06:14.600 all the time. I you know, like everything was like 2344 02:06:14.680 --> 02:06:16.640 a mess. You know, like being a guy in his 2345 02:06:16.760 --> 02:06:19.000 forties is pretty dope, assuming like you've got your health 2346 02:06:19.039 --> 02:06:21.479 and like you're not sitting in prison or something. You know, 2347 02:06:21.640 --> 02:06:23.960 like you like like things have become easier and like 2348 02:06:24.000 --> 02:06:26.239 people like respect you more, and you know, there's just 2349 02:06:26.319 --> 02:06:28.039 like more and more options and you actually have like 2350 02:06:28.119 --> 02:06:30.680 equity and things, you know, like figuratively and literally. So 2351 02:06:30.680 --> 02:06:32.840 you know, I always worried about money and stuff, I mean, 2352 02:06:32.880 --> 02:06:34.920 and so like I I wouldn't I wouldn't go back 2353 02:06:34.920 --> 02:06:38.039 to being nineteen years old for a billion dollars. Okay, 2354 02:06:38.159 --> 02:06:40.920 So when I hear guys my age, you know, saying like, man, 2355 02:06:41.079 --> 02:06:43.520 like I can't even I don't even like think about 2356 02:06:43.560 --> 02:06:45.680 high school because I, you know, nothing could ever touch that. 2357 02:06:45.920 --> 02:06:48.479 It's like, bro, when you were like seventeen and and 2358 02:06:48.880 --> 02:06:51.239 like getting de mariage of home monitors, that was like 2359 02:06:51.359 --> 02:06:54.079 the best time in your life. Really, man, It's like 2360 02:06:54.159 --> 02:06:56.319 what it's like, what kind of horrible life did you 2361 02:06:56.399 --> 02:06:56.840 have after that? 2362 02:06:57.640 --> 02:06:57.800 You know? 2363 02:06:57.880 --> 02:07:00.880 I mean, and it's I I can't I I came 2364 02:07:00.960 --> 02:07:03.800 with phantom man. But it's like I said, I believe 2365 02:07:04.239 --> 02:07:06.680 firmly it's fact to what you were saying when I 2366 02:07:06.800 --> 02:07:10.680 raise about people being unwilling to accept accept mortality, Like, I, 2367 02:07:11.039 --> 02:07:13.760 you know, I really believe that maybe I'm an outlier. 2368 02:07:13.760 --> 02:07:15.640 I maybe most people have like this awesome time as 2369 02:07:15.680 --> 02:07:19.039 a teenager. I didn't nobody I knew, did I mean? 2370 02:07:19.159 --> 02:07:20.720 I I don't know? 2371 02:07:20.960 --> 02:07:23.279 Okay, but no, I'm with you on that. 2372 02:07:23.439 --> 02:07:26.520 Like, look like it was a it's an important part 2373 02:07:26.560 --> 02:07:28.359 of life in the sense that you can't really jump 2374 02:07:28.479 --> 02:07:30.359 from being a child to a full grown adult like 2375 02:07:30.439 --> 02:07:31.119 it's necessary. 2376 02:07:31.199 --> 02:07:33.720 But oh yeah, I mean I think it's not like 2377 02:07:33.760 --> 02:07:33.920 it was. 2378 02:07:33.960 --> 02:07:34.439 Yeah, yeah. 2379 02:07:34.520 --> 02:07:34.720 Yeah. 2380 02:07:35.479 --> 02:07:37.039 I mean I think a lot of what I look 2381 02:07:37.119 --> 02:07:38.960 back on it, and I think this is necessary. It's 2382 02:07:39.000 --> 02:07:42.840 just kind of a mix of like profound embarrassment, especially 2383 02:07:42.880 --> 02:07:44.800 if you're interested in anything. 2384 02:07:44.680 --> 02:07:47.840 Like mildly like political or philosophical. Yeah, you look back 2385 02:07:47.840 --> 02:07:48.560 at me, like what what? 2386 02:07:49.520 --> 02:07:50.840 It's like, I think for a lot of guys in 2387 02:07:50.920 --> 02:07:52.760 these side of things, that's when you kind of hit 2388 02:07:52.880 --> 02:07:55.720 the first cull to sack for young right wing guys, 2389 02:07:56.119 --> 02:08:00.720 which is like, uh, like wait, I'm I'm a Republican 2390 02:08:00.840 --> 02:08:04.720 but slightly more libertarian. Yeah, so I won't even touch 2391 02:08:04.800 --> 02:08:07.720 social issues, so you can't call me racist, right right, 2392 02:08:08.600 --> 02:08:10.079 and so like I look back at that, I'm like, god, 2393 02:08:10.159 --> 02:08:13.119 dear god like and so. But my point is that 2394 02:08:13.359 --> 02:08:15.000 not that like, oh wow, let's all laugh at me 2395 02:08:15.079 --> 02:08:16.960 for being an embarrassing seventeen year old, but look like 2396 02:08:17.039 --> 02:08:19.439 that's that's a stage in your life, and the idea 2397 02:08:19.520 --> 02:08:23.680 that like you you peak at seventeen is just it's 2398 02:08:23.720 --> 02:08:24.680 a little bit embarrassing. 2399 02:08:24.720 --> 02:08:24.840 You know. 2400 02:08:24.960 --> 02:08:27.880 It almost tells you more about the person saying it 2401 02:08:28.079 --> 02:08:29.159 than it does anything else. 2402 02:08:29.600 --> 02:08:32.199 Well yeah, and it's like I yeah, man, And it's like, 2403 02:08:32.239 --> 02:08:33.560 I mean I can see it if if you're a 2404 02:08:33.640 --> 02:08:35.760 limited guy. And I mean I'm not saying that. He mean, 2405 02:08:35.840 --> 02:08:37.840 let's say there's some guys were limited and like they 2406 02:08:37.880 --> 02:08:39.680 were like great athletes, but they're not great enough to 2407 02:08:39.760 --> 02:08:42.319 like make the NFL okay. And it's like if you're 2408 02:08:42.319 --> 02:08:44.680 a limited guy and you've got like a great throwing arm, 2409 02:08:44.880 --> 02:08:46.640 but other than that, there's not a lot going for you, 2410 02:08:47.159 --> 02:08:48.760 and so like, you know, you're like you're like you're 2411 02:08:48.840 --> 02:08:50.800 like the king of some like freaking you know, highly 2412 02:08:50.840 --> 02:08:53.479 competitive like high school where they got a great football program, 2413 02:08:53.760 --> 02:08:55.760 and then like after that, you know, you literally work 2414 02:08:55.840 --> 02:08:58.119 some shit job. And it's like I can understand a 2415 02:08:58.159 --> 02:09:00.840 guy like that, like's looking into his you know, cocktail 2416 02:09:00.920 --> 02:09:03.159 and saying like, man, like what went wrong? Like when 2417 02:09:03.159 --> 02:09:07.079 I when I see guys like you know who who 2418 02:09:07.159 --> 02:09:09.560 are of like above average intelligence, you know, and have 2419 02:09:09.760 --> 02:09:12.319 objectively like good jobs, you know, and they got like 2420 02:09:12.399 --> 02:09:14.840 wives and kids, It's like, bro, like what are you 2421 02:09:14.920 --> 02:09:17.520 talking about? You know what I mean? It's uh, it's 2422 02:09:17.560 --> 02:09:21.159 really it's almost it's almost kind of like low key sociopathic, 2423 02:09:21.760 --> 02:09:23.960 you know, like it's I can't find value in anything 2424 02:09:24.000 --> 02:09:25.640 other than you know, when I when I get my 2425 02:09:25.720 --> 02:09:27.760 rocks off all the time and you know be yeah 2426 02:09:28.000 --> 02:09:31.319 like act you know, act like uh you know, like 2427 02:09:31.479 --> 02:09:34.439 like live like uh, live like a degenerate. But chalk 2428 02:09:34.479 --> 02:09:36.600 it out to youthful discretion, you know. It's yeah, it's 2429 02:09:36.640 --> 02:09:40.119 really it's really disturbing. I mean, like I said, maybe 2430 02:09:40.159 --> 02:09:42.119 I was just like a I don't think I was 2431 02:09:42.159 --> 02:09:44.560 like any cooler or bigger or like as you know, 2432 02:09:44.880 --> 02:09:47.359 any cooler or uncool than like anybody else. But I, 2433 02:09:47.600 --> 02:09:49.680 like I said, man like, I don't I don't look 2434 02:09:49.720 --> 02:09:51.199 back on my youth. It's like, oh that was hell, 2435 02:09:51.319 --> 02:09:53.000 but it's like, man like, it was probably about the 2436 02:09:53.119 --> 02:09:57.199 most like unfun like uncool like part of my life. Man, 2437 02:09:57.279 --> 02:09:59.399 And like, you know, that's why I'm away saying like 2438 02:10:00.159 --> 02:10:01.880 that's why I don't bash young people. It's not just 2439 02:10:01.920 --> 02:10:04.640 because that's fake and fucking like g A T y. 2440 02:10:04.840 --> 02:10:07.119 It's it's it's it's because like being a young person 2441 02:10:07.199 --> 02:10:09.520 actually is not easy, and being my age is a 2442 02:10:09.560 --> 02:10:12.359 lot easier. I mean, yeah, grant, I'm like a single man. 2443 02:10:12.439 --> 02:10:13.720 You know, it's not like I'm looking after a bunch 2444 02:10:13.720 --> 02:10:15.159 of kids. It's not like I got a wife who 2445 02:10:15.319 --> 02:10:18.000 you know, has got has got problems I've got to 2446 02:10:18.039 --> 02:10:20.520 attend to but it, you know, being being you know, 2447 02:10:20.600 --> 02:10:23.079 being like seventeen to twenty five years old is not easy, man, 2448 02:10:23.720 --> 02:10:25.359 you know, and I I'm the first a mint. I've 2449 02:10:25.359 --> 02:10:27.359 got it. I've got it easier than a lot of people, Okay, 2450 02:10:27.439 --> 02:10:29.479 and I definitely have it easier than young guys today. 2451 02:10:30.000 --> 02:10:31.760 You know, I don't recited that, but uh,