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<v Speaker 1>Thirty two in the morning Kevin Gordon and for Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas fifty five KRC the Talk Station. If you checked

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<v Speaker 1>out my Facebook page this morning, you'll notice that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to have my next guest, vicrum Mansharamani. He is

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<v Speaker 1>an economist and author and has written an interesting book,

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<v Speaker 1>The Making of a Generalist Independent Thinker Finds Unconventional Success

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<v Speaker 1>in an Uncertain World, and then another book that he wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>A Thinking for Yourself. Welcome to the program, Vic Crum

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<v Speaker 1>is certainly appreciated. And I hope I pronounced your name properly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's perfect, Kevin, yep, Vikram monstremoney, So thank you

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<v Speaker 2>for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, my pleasure. I guess I want to talk a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit quickly if you don't mind. You ran for

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<v Speaker 1>what the second district congressional seat in New Hampshire, and

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<v Speaker 1>the primary was this past two day, correct and you unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>and I watched a couple of the comments or a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of the questions that were asked during one of

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<v Speaker 1>the debates. I guess wm u R I think and

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<v Speaker 1>I thought this guy's this guy's on fire. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>sorry that that didn't work out. Well, I'm sure. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure you are as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Look yeah, look, I mean these things, as you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of different variables. Unfortunately, New Hampshire has

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<v Speaker 2>a very late primary, right we're the last in the

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<v Speaker 2>nation primary, and it's a Tuesday, after a week after

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<v Speaker 2>Labor Day. And for better or worse, New Hampshire is

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<v Speaker 2>also a state where tourists come and overcome our state

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<v Speaker 2>during the summer months, and so no one really pays

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<v Speaker 2>attention until the eleventh hour. And so after Labor Day

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<v Speaker 2>is where the sprint happens. We have multiple debates and

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<v Speaker 2>people pay attention. And despite that, you know, there were

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<v Speaker 2>three major candidates in this race, and the three of us,

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<v Speaker 2>the three of us in aggregate, I think, secured less

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<v Speaker 2>than seventy five or eighty percent. Yeah, that means twenty

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<v Speaker 2>percent just scattered among people that no one really knew about,

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<v Speaker 2>possibly random and even here's an interesting kicker. Roughly, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was almost ten percent of those who

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<v Speaker 2>came in to vote for the governor's race didn't even

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<v Speaker 2>fill in a CD two candidate left it blank.

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<v Speaker 3>So and by the way, and so a six out.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's just say it was more than six thousand people

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<v Speaker 2>that left it blank and I came in second by

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<v Speaker 2>a margin about five thousand some odd votes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's just incredible. And what now, correct me if

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wrong? Apparently I am wrong. I thought New Hampshire

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<v Speaker 1>primary was one of the first ones in the nation.

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<v Speaker 3>It is for the presidency, for the.

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<v Speaker 1>President, so they split the primaries.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, oh wow in.

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<v Speaker 2>The nation president The first in the nation presidential primary

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<v Speaker 2>took place in January. Uh huh. And then for the

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<v Speaker 2>state primary, which is for you know, state offices as

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<v Speaker 2>well as the two federal offices Senate and or Congress.

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<v Speaker 2>If there is a set this this cycle, that happens

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<v Speaker 2>to be no Senate seat that's up, but there are

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<v Speaker 2>the two congressional seats that were part of that process,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as the governor's race, so as well as

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<v Speaker 2>all state offices.

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<v Speaker 1>That seems like a double expense for the poll workers,

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<v Speaker 1>the you know, all the network or the networking that

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<v Speaker 1>goes into that and the mechanics of that. That almost

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<v Speaker 1>seems a little duplication of efforts.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I don't know if that.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's true because let me tell you,

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<v Speaker 2>being in New Hampshire during the first in the nation

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<v Speaker 2>presidential primary process.

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<v Speaker 3>There is a huge value for being first in the nation.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean, look, every presidential candidate descends on this,

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<v Speaker 2>All of the media, national media descend on New Hampshire.

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<v Speaker 3>There are civic.

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<v Speaker 2>Engagement at a level you probably wouldn't see elsewhere in

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<v Speaker 2>the in the country.

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<v Speaker 3>Frankly town halls.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I guess the local candidates would get pushed

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<v Speaker 1>out as far as news coverage and stuff like that

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<v Speaker 1>so much.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So I think,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, look, there's is it ideal?

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<v Speaker 2>No, But I will tell you the first in the

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<v Speaker 2>nation process for the presidential stuff is a wonderful thing

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<v Speaker 2>for the state of New Hampshire. It's a wonderful thing

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<v Speaker 2>for America because look, Kevin, I will tell you I

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<v Speaker 2>had multiple presidential candidates in my living room, where my

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<v Speaker 2>children get to ask questions, our neighbors get to ask questions,

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<v Speaker 2>and there is no pomp or circumstance. It is one

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<v Speaker 2>on one, real conversations with candidates. And New Hampshire does

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<v Speaker 2>a great job of sniffing out, you know, real candidates

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<v Speaker 2>versus those that are a little.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't that amazing that that you know that is one

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<v Speaker 1>of those facets of our political process that is just

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<v Speaker 1>so unique to us and as actually unique to New Hampshire.

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<v Speaker 1>That yeah, that is really cool. Hey, we need to

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<v Speaker 1>take a quick break. It's away our clock works and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be right back if you can hang with us.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest is Vikrum Charlemani and we're talking about his

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<v Speaker 1>book and some interesting thoughts that he has in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of thinking for yourself, as well as his latest book,

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<v Speaker 1>Being a Generalist, The Making of a Generalist. So anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll pick this up on the other side of the break.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Kevin Gordon in for Brian Thomas fifty five KR

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<v Speaker 1>see the talk station.

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<v Speaker 2>This is fifty five KRC, an iHeartRadio station.

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<v Speaker 1>Man, if you were so forty one in the morning,

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<v Speaker 1>Kevin Gordon in for Brian Thomas fifty five care see

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<v Speaker 1>the talk station. I guess is vic man Charromani. He

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<v Speaker 1>is an economist and author lecturer at Harvard School. Being

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<v Speaker 1>a lecturer there just a wealth of knowledge and if

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<v Speaker 1>you got to check out his website and I will

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<v Speaker 1>post that on my Facebook page as well as we'll

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<v Speaker 1>have a link on it to our from our website

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<v Speaker 1>here at fich five KR. See, I'm fascinating. You know

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<v Speaker 1>your first book, Thinking for Yourself, I think is what

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<v Speaker 1>caught my attention when you came on my radar screen

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<v Speaker 1>because I read a couple of articles by you. And

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<v Speaker 1>how does that fit with the latest book being a

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<v Speaker 1>general This almost seems like the two don't mesh? Or

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<v Speaker 1>am I missing something?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Look I would, I would go back even further to

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<v Speaker 2>my original, my first book.

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<v Speaker 3>So I've got three books out there. The first book

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<v Speaker 3>is about.

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<v Speaker 2>Financial bubbles, and I'll quickly connect the dots between the

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<v Speaker 2>financial bubble book, the book Thinking for Yourself and it's

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<v Speaker 2>called Think for Yourself, and then this latest book to Jennalist.

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<v Speaker 2>When I found Kevin very simply was when I studied

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<v Speaker 2>financial bubbles. It turned out that actually, while many economists

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<v Speaker 2>would say you can't see a financial bubble, what I

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<v Speaker 2>found was that if you use multiple lenses to evaluate it,

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<v Speaker 2>that you could in fact probabilistically figure out whether you

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<v Speaker 2>were more likely or not to be in a bubble.

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<v Speaker 2>And the way I did that is I said, not

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<v Speaker 2>just economics, you got to look at psychology, you got

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<v Speaker 2>to look at politics, you gotta look at herd behavior.

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<v Speaker 3>You got to figure out FOMO.

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<v Speaker 2>And then when I applied that multi lens thinking logic

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<v Speaker 2>to the world of strategy, personal decision making, and corporate

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<v Speaker 2>decision making, what I found was actually it also worked.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to be able to connect dots in a

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<v Speaker 2>world where everyone is focused on generating dots. And I

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<v Speaker 2>found this true in medicine. I found it true in

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<v Speaker 2>personal finance as well as large corporate decisions and government actions.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, you have to look through not only an

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<v Speaker 2>economic lens, but also a geopolitical lens. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>understand what's happening with technology, you have to understand what's

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<v Speaker 2>happening in energy, you have to understand what's happening with

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<v Speaker 2>individual psychology, culture, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of the big picture effect, not just concentrating on

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<v Speaker 1>a particular focus. And then, as you mentioned, the herd mentality,

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<v Speaker 1>which is extremely dangerous, especially when you start looking at

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<v Speaker 1>some of the investments and that type of thing that

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<v Speaker 1>people were moving into. Well, whenever you've seen these bubbles,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it was the dot com bust in the nineties

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<v Speaker 1>and then the housing market in the late or two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and eight thereabouts. In twenty twenty, lindsight you say, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>here were the warning signs? Well, the warning signs were there,

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<v Speaker 1>you just chose to ignore them.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's right.

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<v Speaker 2>And so just to quickly finish up there, ken the

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<v Speaker 2>generalist book, the one that's called the Making of a Generalist,

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<v Speaker 2>is in fact that right, which is what is a generalist.

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<v Speaker 2>A generalist is someone who prioritizes breadth of experience over

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<v Speaker 2>depth of expertise.

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<v Speaker 3>And the logic here is dots, using.

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<v Speaker 2>Multiple perspectives, multiple disciplines or lenses is actually helpful to

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<v Speaker 2>navigate uncertainty. So it's sort of a contrarian lodge. Everyone

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<v Speaker 2>gets taught, develop your expertise, your niche, and get deep

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, learn something more than anyone else knows. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to suggest that actually that's not helpful. That's

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<v Speaker 2>not helpful, particularly in a time of artificial intelligence and technology.

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<v Speaker 3>What you want is.

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<v Speaker 2>To be able to connect dots across these areas of expertise.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know when you vic monscharm romani is my

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<v Speaker 1>guess the you know when you talk about that in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of drilling down on just a particular data points

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<v Speaker 1>or this is where you see where in I guess

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<v Speaker 1>government or in regulations that they believe that they are

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<v Speaker 1>almost like the center of the universe, and that everything

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<v Speaker 1>evolves around them, whether it be the Federal Highways Traffic

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<v Speaker 1>Safety Administration or the EPA or CDC or whatever. They

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<v Speaker 1>don't seem to think outside of their area and see

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<v Speaker 1>how whatever these ramifications will be out in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>And I've seen some people talk in terms of what

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<v Speaker 1>they should do with the federal government is instead of

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<v Speaker 1>having all of these departments in Washington, maybe move them out. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>how about the Department of Agriculture be out where agriculture is?

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<v Speaker 1>You know that's right?

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, look, I agree with you, completely, completely agree him.

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<v Speaker 2>Look it's not just and I'll broaden it. Look, it's

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<v Speaker 2>this idea that.

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<v Speaker 3>Experts know best.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that actually there are people behind a guest who

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<v Speaker 2>should tell all of us in the real world what

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<v Speaker 2>to do. Like that is an offensive concept to me.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually think a lot of us have knowledge and insight,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know what, who knows better about me and

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<v Speaker 2>my family than me and my family? No one can

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<v Speaker 2>be Literally, I think I am the most informed person

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<v Speaker 2>on that, and therefore having experts of any sort tell

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<v Speaker 2>us how to do things is at some level offensive, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean again, we'll go back to the pandemic. I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote this and think for yourself. You know, what was

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<v Speaker 2>the cost? Actually I wrote it about think for yourself later.

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<v Speaker 2>What was the cost of people missing mammograms or missing

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<v Speaker 2>dental appointments that was not factored into the public health

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<v Speaker 2>decision making process. Now, maybe you could argue it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>need to be, but there was a cost.

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<v Speaker 3>It was not zero.

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<v Speaker 2>People missing a mammogram led to probably having more cancer

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<v Speaker 2>and probably more death than any public health official even

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<v Speaker 2>factored into their process.

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<v Speaker 1>Or even wanted to talk about.

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<v Speaker 3>It, or even wanted to talk about.

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<v Speaker 2>So they just talk about all we have to lock down,

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<v Speaker 2>we have to do But that's okay, Fine, you can argue,

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<v Speaker 2>and I would I'm not sure I would agree that

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<v Speaker 2>there were benefits, but you for sure have to accept

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<v Speaker 2>that there were costs. And this gets to your point,

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<v Speaker 2>which is the expert class and embodied in some bureaucratic

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<v Speaker 2>institutions that you have three letter agencies. In that way,

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<v Speaker 2>that expert class feels that they know better than the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of us, and that is what Thing for yourself

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<v Speaker 2>is the opposite of that book was written to say

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<v Speaker 2>all of us know enough to be able to make

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<v Speaker 2>our own decisions. All these experts live in silos. They

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<v Speaker 2>don't understand the big picture. Only you can understand the

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<v Speaker 2>big picture of your own decisions.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my wife, from time to time will make the comment,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it appears as though our best and brightest

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<v Speaker 1>ain't so best and bright sometimes.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's right, that's right, that's exactly right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, look, it's funny.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason I used the title for that book called

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<v Speaker 2>Thing for Yourself, which is the image I had, was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and my mother never really did this, but

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<v Speaker 2>you can imagine a mother sort of slapping, you.

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<v Speaker 3>Know, not in a violent way.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, Wait a minute, now, it's sort of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>telling a child stop this and think for yourself, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>don't just follow her behavior, don't just do these things.

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<v Speaker 3>Are stupid.

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<v Speaker 2>If you know something is stupid, actually, don't do it

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<v Speaker 2>because someone told you to.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if Billy jumps off the cliff, would you jump

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<v Speaker 1>off the cliffs whole?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's freezing cold outside, go stick your tongue on

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<v Speaker 2>the flagpole.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah no, don't show.

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<v Speaker 3>That, Like, don't do that. That's stupid.

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<v Speaker 2>But yet, somehow, as we grow into adults, we start

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<v Speaker 2>listening rather than to the cool kid. We start listening

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<v Speaker 2>to the quote unquote expert who frankly doesn't understand the

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<v Speaker 2>world the way they pretend to.

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<v Speaker 1>No, and and and it's and it's obvious by a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the decisions and a lot of things that

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<v Speaker 1>you see. It's it's you come and away scratching your head.

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<v Speaker 1>And especially you know, having a background of economics and

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<v Speaker 1>I am I am a recovering accountant, so I have

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<v Speaker 1>a tendency of delving out to the numbers way too often.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it it. You know, things have to make

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<v Speaker 1>sense to me. They have to pass the smell test.

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<v Speaker 1>And so yeah, yep, exactly, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's important to that. I mean, look, I do

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<v Speaker 2>I do a lot of global work too, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>important to think globally. It's important across industries, silos, think

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<v Speaker 2>about geopolitics, economics, local technology developments.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's you have to connect dots.

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<v Speaker 2>We live in a world where too many people focus

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<v Speaker 2>on generating dots. We need to connect dots. That is

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<v Speaker 2>the way to navigate uncertainty.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. My guest has been back vicram manshar Ramani. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>how can people get ahold of your books to go

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<v Speaker 1>to your website or yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well look they're available everywhere. Books are sold on Comazon,

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<v Speaker 2>Barnes and Noble e. But the website is just my

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<v Speaker 2>last name Monshuramani dot com. It's m A N s

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<v Speaker 2>h A r A m A n I dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't thank you enough for spending time with us

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<v Speaker 1>today on such short notice. I certainly appreciate you. Have

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<v Speaker 1>a great day and all.

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<v Speaker 3>About us to you perfect thanks very much. Caning?

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<v Speaker 1>All right, take care. Let's say we need to step

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<v Speaker 1>out here real quick. I'm Kevin Gordon in for Brian Thomas,

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five kr SE the talk station fifty five KRC

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<v Speaker 1>dot com.