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No purchase necessary void, We're prohibited by law 24 00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:00.000 eighteen plus terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 25 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:14.760 Block Padian, you are now listening to True Murder, The 26 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:18.359 most shocking killers in true crime History and the authors 27 00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:24.760 that have written about them, Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. 28 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:29.439 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 29 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:33.719 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 30 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:47.239 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This 31 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:50.040 is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, 32 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.799 The most shocking killers in true crime history and the 33 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.400 authors that have written about them. It took almost ten 34 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.239 years for investigators to arrest two men for the brutal 35 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.239 murders of seven and workers at a fast food restaurant 36 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:06.159 in suburban Chicago. The tragic events captured headlines throughout the 37 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:09.800 nation for weeks. When arrests finally were made, the evidence 38 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:10.479 against one of the. 39 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:14.520 Alleged killers was virtually irrefutable. His DNA was on chicken 40 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:17.759 bones recovered from a trash bin at Brown's Chicken and Pasta. 41 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:21.439 Investigators contended that he ate pieces of chicken before shooting 42 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.599 the victims the so called last meal. His partial palm 43 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:28.400 print was on a soiled paper napkin inside a trash bin. 44 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:32.159 He confessed on videotape. Describing how he got caught up 45 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:35.360 in the moment as he slit the throat of one victim, 46 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:37.960 and he bragged about his role in the crime to 47 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.840 two young women. If ever, someone deserved a death sentence, 48 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:45.800 the Browns Chicken Killer certainly would qualify. The Last Meal 49 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.479 is the story of a horrific crime. It is also 50 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:51.560 the riveting account of how a team of defense attorneys 51 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:54.039 fought to show how their client did not commit the 52 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:58.199 killings and what happened if that failed to save him 53 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:02.400 from the death sentence. My book, the book this scevening 54 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.159 that we're going to be talking about, is the Last 55 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:08.199 Meal Defending an accused mass murder with my special guest, 56 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.919 Dennis Sheher. Welcome to the program, and thank you to 57 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:11.879 a Green dis interview. 58 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.080 Dennis shere Dan, thank you so much. I appreciate the 59 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:16.719 opportunity to talk about the Last Meal. 60 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:23.159 Thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Now 61 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.360 you start off with your book initially pretty well with 62 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:34.840 a gentleman named Manny Castro. And but before we do that, 63 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:37.759 let's first off set the let's get the setting for 64 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:42.000 our story. Here. Where is Palantine, Illinois and what kind 65 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.159 of community is it? 66 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:48.039 Okay. Pillotine is a suburb of Chicago in the north 67 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:52.960 northwest part of the community, guessing population forty to fifty. 68 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:59.439 It's a a middle class suburb, a place where people 69 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:02.439 who would be leave in Chicago for whatever reason might settle. 70 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:07.360 Back in nineteen ninety three when this killing took place, 71 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:12.280 the town would be experiencing some growing pains, and it 72 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:14.199 had a police force. It was a fairly good sized 73 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:17.399 police force, but had never dealt with anything quite like 74 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:22.199 the Brown's Chicken and Pasta murders. So what happened was 75 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:27.920 that Brown's Chicken and Pasta was a restaurant that people 76 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:32.600 would go to for an inexpensive family meal basically chicken 77 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:37.879 meal with French fries, coleslaw, other kinds of amenities. It 78 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:42.240 would have soft drinks and coffee. And on January the eighth, 79 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:46.519 nineteen ninety three, which is a Friday night, there were 80 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.800 probably a few customers in at close to closing time, 81 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:56.360 which would be nine pm, and after the restaurant closed, 82 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:03.600 police said one or two men came in. Individuals came 83 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:08.000 in ordered what I described in the book as the 84 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:11.240 Last Meal, which also became the title for the book, 85 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:17.120 and then after apparently eating a portion of it, carried 86 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:21.600 out the crime, and all seven workers that included the 87 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:27.399 two owners, Lynn and Richard Enenfeld, were murdered. Two of 88 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:31.639 them were shot to death in a cooler, and five 89 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.040 bodies were found in a freezer. They had all been 90 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.680 shot in the head. In addition, two of the victims 91 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:43.199 had stab wounds. Young man whose name was Michael Castro, 92 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:47.279 was stabbed post mortem, the medical examiner said in the 93 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:53.040 abdomen and Lynn Enenfeld, the wife of Richard, had her 94 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:57.439 throat slit. But what killed her, the medical examiner said 95 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:01.120 for sure, was the head wound. All this took place, 96 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:06.959 the police estimated sometime after nine pm, and probably before ten. 97 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:13.199 The bodies were not discovered until the next morning, at 98 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:17.319 about three am. Rather, and at that point it became 99 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:20.959 a huge, huge story in Chicago and elsewhere. Not only 100 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:24.800 were the Palatine police involved, but you had FBI, you 101 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:30.319 had police officers, you had officers from other communities surrounding 102 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.439 a palatine, and a task force was formed to try 103 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:41.920 to find the killers who massacred these seven people's back. 104 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:43.519 Whether you want me to go at this point, I 105 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:45.879 could tell you the score, but let's interrupt and go 106 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:46.920 ahead and ask some questions. 107 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:49.680 Okay, sorry, let's go back just a little bit, because 108 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:52.079 the way you did start it was that you had 109 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:56.000 a gentleman named Manny Castro. You spoke about one of 110 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:59.839 the victims, Michael Castro, because this is how this terrible 111 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:04.079 story was first or the terrible crime was first discovered. 112 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:06.439 So talk about the family a little bit, because you 113 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.879 did do some You did get a lot of information 114 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.079 about Michael Castro, and you do set the stage that way. 115 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:14.839 Go back and tell us about the horror of the 116 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.639 actual victims family discovering this. 117 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:22.680 The Castros lived in Pelatine, and Michael, who was I 118 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:25.199 think a junior in high school, was a part time 119 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:28.959 worker at the Browns Chicken and Pasta restaurant, and he 120 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:33.879 had said goodbye to his father over the phone on 121 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:36.079 a Friday, told him to be home on time, which 122 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:41.040 typically would be about ten PM. And Manny, who worked 123 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:45.680 in a silk screen business and had been up early 124 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:50.519 that morning, went to bed about ten ten thirty. His 125 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:54.560 wife woke him up shortly after eleven and said Michael 126 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:58.079 was not home. Many didn't make much of it at 127 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:00.759 that point, but he decided because his way was concerned 128 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.480 that he would drive up to the restaurant and see 129 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:07.480 if he could find his son. He drove to the 130 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.759 Brown's Chicken and Pasta restaurant and discovered that the building 131 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:15.560 was pretty much shut down. His son's car was parked 132 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:17.680 in the parking lot, along with a few other cars, 133 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:20.639 but there was no activity. He got out of the car, 134 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:23.800 looked around, went up to the doors, shook the doors 135 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:27.720 to see if, by chance anything anyone might be in 136 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:31.079 the building. He could not see any activity inside the building. 137 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:37.799 Went back home said, couldn't find Michael. His wife became 138 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:40.879 increasingly concerned, so they called the police and said, you know, 139 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:42.799 we'd like to know where our son is. He was 140 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.320 supposed to be home by now. He worked at this restaurant. 141 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.120 We have no idea where he was or where he 142 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:50.879 is rather and the police said, well, we don't take 143 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:55.559 missing person reports for twenty four hours, but we'll get 144 00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:00.440 the word at Manny and his wife went back up 145 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:05.320 to the restaurant again, looked around, still know Michael. Becoming 146 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:09.039 increasingly concerned, they called the police again the officer an 147 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:14.360 officer was dispatched to the scene. The castros saw him there. 148 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.399 He looked around, he checked the doors. All the doors, 149 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.320 two doors were customer doors, and then there were a 150 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:23.679 couple of doors in the back of the building that 151 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:27.440 employees might use. All of them were his, according to 152 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:27.879 the officer. 153 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:28.320 Locked. 154 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:32.360 And the officer said to the Castros, don't worry about it. 155 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:36.080 He's probably out. Michael's probably out with his friends, you 156 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.600 know how a teenagers are. He'll be home. Everything will 157 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:44.000 be fine. And the Castros went home, and of course 158 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:49.840 there was no Michael. So now Manny was becoming very concerned, 159 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.279 and he called the police again and said, look, I 160 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.879 don't want people to tell me everything's okay. I've got 161 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:59.879 problems here. I don't know where my son is. His 162 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.759 Harris parked in the parking lot of the restaurant, and 163 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:09.480 something's got to happen. So a Palatine police officer was 164 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.960 dispatched to the Castro home. He took a police report 165 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:18.399 that described Michael's appearance and what he did for a living, 166 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.200 where he went to school, all those things. And as 167 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:24.799 the officer was filling out this so called missing person's report, 168 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:28.120 he could see that Manny and his wife were not 169 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.639 taking that too lightly, and they were very much concerned. 170 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:35.519 So he said, look, I'll take a run up. The 171 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.399 officer said, I'll take a run up to the restaurant 172 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:40.039 again and take a look around. And as he left, 173 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:43.240 Manny said, I'm going with you, and his wife said 174 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:47.399 I'm coming to They followed the cruiser police cruiser up 175 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.679 to the restaurant and by the time they got there, 176 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:53.559 the officer was out of the patrol car and was 177 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:59.320 again walking around checking the doors. He checked the customer 178 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:03.639 doors there they were locked. He checked one door that 179 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:07.000 was used by the employees. It was locked. He went 180 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.720 around to the other side of the building, pulled on 181 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.399 another door and it was not locked. It came open. 182 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:18.440 At that point, Manny was right behind the officer. The 183 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.919 officer peered inside with his flashlight and could see something 184 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:26.480 was a miss. Manny tried to follow him. It follow 185 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.080 him in because he saw a coat on top of 186 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:34.759 a metal cabinet and he said, that's my son's coat, 187 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:37.559 and the officer said, you can't come in here. And 188 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.720 the officer then walked into the inside the building with 189 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.840 his flashlight discovered a door ajar in what looked like 190 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.000 a hand and a foot outside of it. When he 191 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:54.159 propped open that door, he saw five victims He couldn't 192 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:55.840 tell how many there were. He couldn't tell if they 193 00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:59.440 were all dead, they were all mixed together, but there 194 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:02.320 was blood all over the place, and he could tell 195 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:05.240 that there had been some shooting. He then, of course, 196 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:10.639 just called for backup. Other officers arrived, They went through 197 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:15.879 the building, and the process discovered two more victims in 198 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.120 a separate cooler. And that's how it all. 199 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:25.679 Began right now. So now we've covered this, how they 200 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:29.919 were discovered in this in this restaurant, in this freezer 201 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:32.879 in the back. What was the initial idea of this, 202 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:38.159 the initial idea of police thinking the motive for this crime, 203 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:42.320 and what was the media speculation initially and the media's 204 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.000 reaction initially when this story broke. 205 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.279 Well, the story obviously it was a huge story here. 206 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.879 I think. I think what the police were believing was 207 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:58.720 that this after looking at cash register receipts and cash 208 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:03.840 drawers and some other things, they began to believe that 209 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:08.000 this had been a robbery and that the browbery had 210 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:12.799 gone bad. There was an investigator who was a fingerprint 211 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:18.679 specialist who was inside the building with another investigator and 212 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:23.919 they discovered in a trash receptacle what looked like the 213 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:27.440 remains of chicken dinner all the other There were two 214 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:31.159 receptacles in the building. One of them was clean, the 215 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.759 other was not. It looked as though the employees had 216 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:37.559 done some cleanup before this all took place, this killing 217 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.519 took place, but there was this garbage in the bottom 218 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:46.039 of this receptacle, and they waited a couple of days 219 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.200 to deal with it. But when they pulled it out, 220 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.000 they were able to see that it contained pieces of chicken, 221 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:59.159 French fries, some coal, saw a soft drink container, a 222 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:01.559 star stick, and it looked as though some of the 223 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:06.200 chicken had been eaten. And they then pulled the cash 224 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.759 register tapes and discovered that although the restaurant had closed 225 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.320 at nine pm, about seven minutes later there was one 226 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:18.279 more meal sold, the so called last meal, again the 227 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:23.480 title of this book, And they didn't know exactly what 228 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:27.759 that was going to produce, But the woman who found 229 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.600 all this evidence was smart enough at least the prosecutors 230 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.600 said to bag it and make sure it was protected, 231 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:39.279 and eventually it was two of those pieces of chicken 232 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:45.919 that yielded the DNA that then was ultimately used to 233 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:51.559 accuse our client. One of the two men who went 234 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.120 on trial for the murders of having committed the masker. 235 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.320 Now, what was the difference in the state of DNA 236 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.919 analysis in nineteen ninety three when these murders occurred, and 237 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:07.919 you say that you talked about the officer having the 238 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:13.279 foresight to bag this information. What was the in comparison 239 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:15.639 to ten years later when they went to trial or 240 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:19.600 more years later, What was the difference in just tell 241 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.679 us the analysis itself. What was the limitations as opposed 242 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:24.759 to ten years later. 243 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:28.639 Well, I'm not a DNA expert, but basically the difference 244 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:34.720 was that they had the procedure for extracting DNA had 245 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.679 not been refined to the point that it could be 246 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.720 lifted off of a piece of chicken or a chicken bone. 247 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:45.559 There was an investor, There was a nationally known crime 248 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:49.240 scene guy who came into Chicago some time after the 249 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:53.039 killings took place to help look at all the evidence 250 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:56.159 and see what was there, and he recommended that the 251 00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:03.320 Palatine police ship some chicken pieces and the plastic stir 252 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:06.519 that was found in that garbage to an outfit on 253 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:10.840 the West coast for analysis. Those pieces were sent there. 254 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.480 An analysis was done for DNA, but unfortunately nothing of 255 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.519 any significance could be yielded because the procedure wasn't good 256 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.720 enough yet, and so the bone that they thought might 257 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:28.080 most likely have the DNA on it was actually destroyed 258 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:32.360 in the testing process as was a stir. Those pieces 259 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:35.799 were gone. So what happened was that they had all 260 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:39.840 those other chickens still fill in hand, and over the 261 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:45.120 next five six seven years, the process for analyzing DNA 262 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.159 was improved dramatically, and now they could go back and 263 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:53.919 extract from another piece of chicken DNA that they thought 264 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.639 might belong to the killer, and that's what they did. Now, 265 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.240 this would have been in nineteen ninety eight, and immediately 266 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:05.720 they started testing everybody they could think of, including people 267 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:07.960 who were on the crime scene, cops who were there, 268 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.880 any suspects they might have considered, to see if the 269 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.319 DNA matched, and it did not. It did not match anyone. 270 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:20.640 Now, how did the police proceed? You were we're talking 271 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.640 about five years later, so obviously we're speaking about that 272 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.680 the thing didn't get solved right away. But what were 273 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.839 the was there no forensic evidence other than what you 274 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:35.640 talked about the fingerprint fingerprinting that was done? What made 275 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:40.440 this case take so long to get to this other point, 276 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:42.559 And what did they do in the interim? What happened 277 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:43.279 in the first couple? 278 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.400 Wait, the Lucky landslide. You can get lucky just about anywhere. 279 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.079 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 280 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:52.960 weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here 281 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.039 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 282 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.559 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 283 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:00.920 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 284 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:02.160 and start getting lucky. 285 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.839 Play for free at Lucky landslides dot com. Are you 286 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:09.599 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 287 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.519 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 288 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:14.440 For years. 289 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:15.759 How did the police proceed with this? 290 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:21.240 They they looked at everyone. They looked at any possible suspect. 291 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.640 They looked nationally at other murders that might be similar 292 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:28.200 to this one. They looked at all the employees who 293 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.680 had worked at Brown's Chicken. They looked at other persons 294 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.000 who had been involved in violent crimes in the Chicago 295 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.880 area during that period of time. And they did extensive 296 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.759 dossier's on a number of these people. But nothing, Nothing 297 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:47.880 came out. The palm print that was discovered also was 298 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.920 on a napkin in that trash receptacle, but it was 299 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.720 almost like a smudge, and no one was sure at first. 300 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.599 The fingerprint experts were not sure at first exactly what 301 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.359 that was, and only through some enhancements that were done 302 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.880 was it determined that it was a partial pomprint. So 303 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:12.880 they had now by nineteen ninety eight, DNA that had 304 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.160 been extracted that might match the killers and a partial, 305 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:20.720 very small, partial pomprint that might also match the killer. 306 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.920 But in that period from nineteen ninety three January of 307 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:30.359 ninety three until that time, there had been substantial criticism 308 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:34.920 of the effort to locate find these killers. There had 309 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.319 been an independent group that had analyzed all the work 310 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.960 that had been done by the police and had been 311 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:43.759 very critical of it would have been done. So you 312 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:47.359 had not only this unsolved crime, but you had some 313 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.640 people taking potshots at the cops saying, look, you didn't 314 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.720 do what you were supposed to do. You messed up 315 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:55.680 some evidence inside the building, there were too many people 316 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.640 in there. There were all kinds of questions raised. There 317 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:02.160 was another group that came int defended the police effort. 318 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.000 The Chief of police in Palatine hired a former FBI 319 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.319 agent to come in and kind of reorganized the investigation, 320 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.799 and he was responsible for the initial testing that was 321 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:21.240 done on suspects and others for DNA. But for all 322 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:25.440 intents and purposes, through the nineties late nineties, this crime 323 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:29.519 was going no place. They had no suspects that made 324 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.960 any sense, They had no one who's DNA match, They 325 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.799 had no witnesses who really had seen what was going on. 326 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:41.319 No one was coming forward. It was dead now. 327 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:45.400 In early nineteen ninety eight, Jim Bell, who was fired 328 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:50.359 the former FBI agent that he spoke about, began focusing 329 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:52.599 on a teenage girl who had worked at the restaurant 330 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.160 at the time of the murders. Her name was Casey Sanders. 331 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.559 Why did Bell focus on her? What did she help 332 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:00.359 to shape to Bell? 333 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:07.279 Actually, Bell talked to all went back and basically redid 334 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.240 the investigation and the interviews that had been done. Within 335 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:14.079 months after the killings, he talked to all the former employees, 336 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:18.960 including our client, and one of those was this Casey Sander, 337 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:25.119 and Sander began to tell a story about her boyfriend, 338 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:29.920 whose name was Todd Wakefield, being involved in the Browns 339 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.920 Chicken case, Casey worked for the restaurant. She was not 340 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:36.279 on duty, of course, that night, but she did go 341 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:41.480 into the restaurant, excuse me, earlier in the day and 342 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:46.759 picked up a check. And so she's telling Bell and 343 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:52.440 his people that her boyfriend was involved in this case. Well, 344 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.880 they started concentrating on him, and he was I think 345 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.240 it was pretty clever because basically what he was doing 346 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.839 was both giving them information that kind of tantalized them 347 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:08.079 and then denying it. As he was talking about all this, 348 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.759 he then focused. He then caused them to focus another 349 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:16.720 young man whose name was John and I'm forgetting his 350 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:21.839 last name at this point, but anyway, they interviewed the 351 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:26.279 second young man and he started telling a story that 352 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:31.039 was somewhat dream oriented and somewhat factual, and after four 353 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:34.599 or five interviews, he finally told the story of what 354 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:39.519 he said transpired in the restaurant. What he told was 355 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.400 very close to the actual facts of the case as 356 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:46.759 the police understood them. And so Bell became very interested 357 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:53.680 in going after this man, and he actually went to 358 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:59.119 the prosecutors and said, we should arrest both these guys 359 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.839 filed in his buddy. But the prosecutor said, we've tested 360 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:08.480 both of them for DNA. Their DNA does not match. 361 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.799 They did not test for the pombred because they didn't 362 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.279 think that was nearly as important. So there was no 363 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:19.480 physical evidence connecting either of these guys to the crime. 364 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.000 So at that point the prosecutor said, we're not going 365 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:28.839 anywhere with this. The main suspect they had at that 366 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:34.359 point was released and they were back to ground zero. 367 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.799 And that's the way it remained for the next three 368 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:40.279 years until two thousand and two. 369 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.640 Now, there was another gentleman named William King. He was 370 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.519 a cop on the original task force. And something happens 371 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:51.319 in March two thousand and two with a woman named 372 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:56.720 Melissa Oberly tell us about that exchange with police. 373 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:03.319 Melissa was, I'm guessing now in her late twenties. She 374 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:10.279 had grown up in Palatine. She had a friend, Anne Lockett, 375 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:14.319 who she hadn't talked with for some time. But and 376 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:19.039 in March of two thousand and two called Melissa and said, 377 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.200 I've got some information I need to give to somebody. 378 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.799 Do you know anyone in the Pelatine police department? And 379 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.839 she described for Melita what she knew, and what she 380 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.400 knew she claimed was who had actually committed the Browns 381 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:39.880 Chicken in Pasta murders, and she gave a couple of names. 382 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:42.359 Melissa called a friend of hers who was on the 383 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:47.880 police force. He in turn talked with Bill King, who 384 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:52.039 was still one of two officers assigned to the Brown's 385 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:55.200 Chicken in Pasta case. King had been there on the 386 00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:58.400 night that the murders took place. He had helped take 387 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:04.160 the bodies out of the and put them on blankets 388 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:06.640 that they could be used could be used to transport 389 00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.759 them to the corner's office. He was intimately involved in 390 00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:12.359 this from the very get go. When he heard this 391 00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:18.240 information that was passed on to him, he placed a 392 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:21.319 call to Ann Lockett and in the car and it 393 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:24.759 arranged to see her, went out with one of one 394 00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:29.200 of his other officers and they interviewed Anne, and in 395 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:34.359 the process of her telling what she knew, she disclosed 396 00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:37.759 the piece of information that had never been disclosed publicly 397 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.960 by the police, and that was that one of the victims, 398 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:46.599 whose name was Rico sawas a young seventeen year old worker, 399 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.880 had vomited French fries and remains of those French fries 400 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.599 were on the front of his t shirt, and that 401 00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:58.039