Speaker 1: We're Tame Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hellok,
and welcome back to another edition of the PSO. I
am the team, You're Tilo, Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm here
with the low and you'r til Lorenzo. Mark has my
lovely husband. It is my lovely husband's birthday.
Speaker 2: The birthday, thank you, uh and you've been wonderful. You
made me cake, you made me ice cream and uh yeah,
and cinnamon buns for buns for breakfast.
Speaker 1: You know, very busy.
Speaker 2: I got lovely cards from everybody, including the cat, each.
Speaker 1: Cat and McCart. It is also the birthday of actor
tab Hunter. Yes, yes, yes, I was an RB boyd
tab Hunter. Our cat who was named after him, is
sitting right in front of us.
Speaker 2: No one love tab Hunter. Actually I love both tap Hunters.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, I know I always say it's going to
be a short one, but I do think it's going
to be a short one. This is our second podcast
of the week. We promised on Monday that we would
get a second one else.
Speaker 2: And we're thinking about having more than one. We can't
promise anything.
Speaker 1: But we'll see getting into that. We always try, We
always try any or nothing, but tryers. Okay. So actually
on Wednesday I said to Lorenzo, I was like, I
don't know. We told everyone we were going to do
a second podcast, but I don't have any topics for
this week aside from and just like that. And then
I said we could go and see Superman the night
before and give our thoughts on that, because the thing
is in our line of work, you know, being independent
bloggers and that sort of thing. If there's any no
one ever asks or advice anymore, because no one's trying
to do a blog, no one's launching blogs in twenty
twenty five. But back in the day when people used
to ask advice for us, I used to always say,
you know, find out what you're as close to an
expert on and write about that or talk about that.
And so when it came time to come up with
topics for this week, I was like, well, there's that
whole line about you know what, could you stand up
in front of a TED and give a TED talk
without any you know, any preparation. And definitely Superman is
one of those things where it's like, yeah, I could
get up and talk about for forty five minutes about
that guy. I won't, but I will offer my thoughts
on the film, you know, as someone who is a long, long,
long time fan of the character and understands him pretty well.
And of course we're going to talk about and just
like that our favorite show are My God, that show.
All right, let's talk about Superman.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: First off, I'm aware that you know we're gay, mostly
fashion bloggers, so you know not our audience isn't necessarily
prime to sit and listen to an entire discussion about
a superhero movie, but we'll try and keep it.
Speaker 2: Into However, can I just say what I thought about it?
Because mine is quick? Quick? Yeah, absolutely and short. I
don't know anything about Superman, but I actually I've always
enjoyed the movies, especially the first one. I call it
the first one with Christopher Ree because I think it
was a beautiful movie. Uh and he was so perfect
for the for to play Superman anyway, and this one
was good too. I actually enjoyed it very much. I
think they're both amazing. David what's his last name again?
Corn sweat right and Rachel Brosselhan. I've always loved Rachel Brosselhan. Uh.
When she did.
Speaker 1: A show Uh, a marvelous missus masel Oh.
Speaker 2: Way before that, when she was she did that show
I can't remember the one in Washington camp Oh heut
of Cards, Yeah, I think so Okay, Yeah, anyway, she
was amazing. Uh And I actually said some on Twitter
back then and she replied and she thanked me because
I thought she would she was gonna hit big because
she was really good and she is. I think she's
a great actor anyway. So and she's perfect for the role.
I think the little I know about the character, I
thought it was very good. I think he's a perfect Superman.
Loved the dog. My god, the dog I had no
idea about. I knew nothing about the dog. You had
to explain to me the whole thing with the dog.
I thought it was interesting. I was, you know, pay
attention to everything, enjoying every minute of it. And Nicholas Ho,
I mean, my god, he's also fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So that's my take someone who doesn't know anything
about Superman. I really enjoyed and was entertained by the
whole thing.
Speaker 1: As someone who knows everything about so I was also entertained.
I don't think it's a perfect film. But then again,
I don't think there is such a thing as a
perfect superhero film, right. I don't think there's such a
thing as a perfect film generally. But superhero films, just
by nature or the genre, they are going to wind
up becoming formulaic. It's almost impossible for them not to
be formulaic. So it is a as a genre. It's
a very enjoyable film genre, but it rarely leads to masterpieces.
It rarely leads to like tremendous feats of acting and filmmaking.
It's just not that sort of thing. I think what's
fun about Superman this film is that James Gunn he
really thought about the influences on that character. He thought
about the way the public reacts to that character, and
then he tried to put that in the film. He
tried to put certain aspects of that into the film.
I'm not really making sense here, my point being, pardon me.
There are aspects of the film that feel very much
like picking up a DC comic in the middle of
a storyline. It just there's all this stuff going on
that just is not explain to you at all. You
just sort of have to go with it. Similarly, there's
very much a sort of Saturday Morning cartoon vibe to
this film. I don't want to suggest that it's dumbed down.
I don't think it's dumbed down at all in fact,
but James got really, really thought about what do we
expect out of superhero in our movies? What do we
want them to do, what do we want them to say,
what do we want them to look like? And I
feel like a lot of this film is him answering
a bunch of other films, or responding to a bunch
of other films about superheroes. I feel like he made
deliberate choices so that this film was not going to
look like other films or be like other films. Don't
get me wrong, Especially in the third act of the movie,
it's pure superhero slop. I mean, it's just people flying around,
punching things, and it's a lot of digital effects, and
you know, it's every climax of every superhero movie in
the last twenty years. Will say that to me was
the one disappointing aspect of the film is that in
the end it's just a big, punch him up kind
of thing. And I mean it's Superman. Of course he's
going to go around flying and punching things. If I'm
complaining about that, I don't get Superman. I just feel
that the first two thirds of the film are I
mean I actually sat there going, huh, he's really trying
to do something here, isn't he Like it's not It's
not a Marvel film. It doesn't feel like a Marvel
film at all, And it doesn't feel like prior DC
films because the energy is so different. When you look
at like the Henry Cavill Man of Steel Batman versus
Superman Justice League films, the take on that character was.
I mean, I always had a problem with it. It
was morose and ponderous and overly serious, and Cavell as
beautiful as Henry cavill is. He basically looks like a
blow up doll, and I never really liked him in
that suit. I just was like, well, that's he just
looks Carl done a marble and I don't that to me,
that isn't what makes Superman Superman. When you think of
Christopher Reed, you think of the humanity and that yeah, yeah,
you think of the humanity and that characterization, and you
think of he wasn't a marble statue. He grinned, and
he he got frustrated, and he got embarrassed, and you
know he was, you know, sexually attracted to lost and
Christopher Reid put all that that in the performance, and
Henry Cavill did not. It was a very wooden and
he was asked to I mean, this is not a
comment on Henry Cavill's talent, but he was asked to
do a certain version of Superman. In that version, was
this sort of messianic marble statue very uninteresting to watch.
Speaker 2: He's also not that talented.
Speaker 1: The thing about David corn Sweat's version is that it's
it's very much the man in Superman. You won't You've
never seen a version of Superman get so beat up.
He gets beat the ship beating at him all the
time in this movie because he is not some untouchable god.
He also loses his temper. There is a really spectacular
scene with Lois in the beginning of the movie where
she interviews him and he expects they view to be
friendly and it's not, and he gets very frustrated with
her and they wind up having an argument and You've
never again, you've never seen a Lois and Clark like
this on screen before. What's interesting is it's the choices
that Gun made as to where he was going to
start the story and everything. For instance, the Lois and
Clark relationship is at a point where that we've never
seen before on screen. It is three months into their relationship.
He's already told him he's Superman, but they haven't said
they love each other yet, and that's a really fertile
dramatic period for those characters that has not been explored on.
Speaker 2: Oh, Wilscnett. I actually was going to ask you about
that because I'm watching the movie and I'm like, oh,
they're in a relationship. I had no idea that it
was going to start with together, like you know the
scene in the office when she's pretending that she doesn't Yeah, yeah,
very professional, and then when she visits him, I mean
he visits her.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I should say we probably
should have started off by saying this is a non
spoiler review. We're just talking about minor stuff. I'm not
going to get into all the no no's. There's some
Easter eggs and there's some there's a cameo or two,
and I'm not going to get into any of that.
But yeah, so the Clark and Lowis relationship is kind
of interesting because they're clearly hot for each other, but
they're not in love yet, and that, like I said,
that's really fertile ground because you get a point where
she's questioning whether or not this is really going to
have a per you know, and that sort of thing.
So it was an interesting take on those characters. I
think they had a really fascinating discussion about journalistic ethics,
which again you've never seen them do in a Superman story.
And as a nerd I used to get in arguments
only message for Hims twenty five years ago because I
used to say that I was like, Lois and Clark
are two of the least ethical journalists in fiction because
they make up their interviews or they don't. They don't
tell people that they know their interview subject in interesting.
So they had that discussion. So that was fun. As
you've noted, Crypto so much fun. The dogh God ridiculous,
just like the baby Yoda of the DC universe. They
did a great job gone speaking as a as a
nerd expert, he made some choices that aren't exactly like
the comics. He made a choice about Superman's origins. It's
a big twist. I'm not going to get into it. Yeah,
but we can't talk about it.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about it. But I wasn't
sure if he was in the comic books.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying that it is not in the
comic books, and I think the the nerds are going
to have a problem with it. I mean I did.
I did wrestle with it, uh huh, and but ultimately
I was like, you know what, it doesn't change anything
about the character. It changes something about his origins, but
it doesn't change the character at all. So and it
allowed them to reaffirm something at the end of the film,
which was very nice. And I won't get into that either.
But the whole thing about the the images that he
was looking at in the Fortress Solitude at the end
of the movie was Yeah, it was very beautiful, beautiful,
and it it I'm not going to give it away,
but it does. It underlines a very important point about Superman,
and they really got that. The thing is the Zack
Snyder films were So I'm gonna keep talking. While Lorenzo
goes to turn off the air conditioner, which just kicked in.
I just believe in in transparency and podcasting. Sorry if
you can hear that noise in the background. The thing
about Zack Snyder's take on him on Superman was that
he was very obsessed with the the the alien ness
of this character, the fact that he came from this
other planet and he was like this messianic figure. And
James Gunn is not interested in that at all. First
of all, we never see Krypton. There's no origin on
Krypton or anything like that. We never see them put
a aby in a rocket, none of that stuff he
was waiting for. He skiffs all of it, and it's refreshing.
It's very refreshing. The movie starts off three years into
Superman's career. Everybody knows who he is, he's been around
for a while, nothing needs to be introduced, and honestly,
I think all superhero films should start like that. The
quote unquote origin story has been so.
Speaker 2: Total so many times. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I mean, when it's a character that the public doesn't know, well, yeah, okay,
you need to explain certain things, but you do not
need to explain Superman or Batman or Spider Man or
Captain America, anybody not anymore. So I did like that.
Nicholas Holt got to say, there have been a lot
of great Lex luthors, Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor is one
of the all time greats. But I gotta say that's
the best Lex Luthor I've ever seen on screen. He
was despicable.
Speaker 2: Yes, I wanted to kill him, Yes, And it felt
very villainish, you know, like very cartoonish. Just loved it, Yes,
very very comic book.
Speaker 1: I agree. In the first third of the film, they
really load a lot of shit on Superman. And it's
not that it gets dark, but it just sort of
gets like, oh, hell's our hero going to get out
of this? Like they're just piling a lot of bad
stuff on the character. And I was sitting there thinking that.
I was like, oh right, I forgot. That's That's kind
of James Gun's thing is that he really puts his
heroes through the ringer so that when they get that moment,
it's a fist pump moment. It's a total fist pump moment.
And when Luthor gets that, I'm not going to give
it away, but of course Luthor gets defeated and when
Luthor gets defeated, it is a total fist pump moment,
crowd pleasing moment, everybody burst out laughing. So he's good
at that. Gun is very good at creating these sort
of these these very basic good versus evil storylines that
you wind up getting extremely invested in because he knows
how to create likable, entertaining heroes when you think of
like Guardians of the Galaxy and Chris Pratt and that
whole crew, But he also knows how to create the
most despicable that like people that you just cannot wait
to see destroyed. And Nicholas Holt was great. I mean,
every Lex Luthor hates Superman, but I don't think I've
ever seen Alex Lutha that hated Superman as much as
this guy hated Superman.
Speaker 2: Some of his line talking about how much he hates
him and all that, it was just beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he gives a monologue at the end where I'm like, well, damn,
that's one of the all time great villain monologues. Yeah,
he's really really good and also breath taking only beautiful
in this Oh my god. I mean, his skin is
like he has no pores, but what.
Speaker 2: I love about him is that he can do anything,
like the what is the Mad Max or whatever movie? Mad?
Speaker 1: Oh right, right, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he was also crazy. He can do anything.
I just love him. He's so good.
Speaker 1: But his suits were in this film. I mean, he
just was impeccably outfitted. And of course David Corinth Jesus
Christ the legs on that boy. It's hard to focus
on the boys cakes man. Oh my god, I'm like, Jesus,
look at that. Yeah, it's hard. He's very cute, he's
he's likable, he's full of personality, and he's really and
that is so important. And that is what Henry Cavill's
Superman really lacked. It was like you just you couldn't
fall in love with that guy. It was very hard to.
Speaker 2: The thing that the three of them have been promoting
the movie like crazy, I'm on TikTok and Instagram. They're
you know, they're doing all kinds of videos and this stuff.
And they're so funny together.
Speaker 1: They're cute together. Yeah, very smart to three of them. Yeah,
now getting away from those three who are all great,
and like I said, that is the best Lex Luthor
of all time. And I would say this is the
second best Clark and Lomis of all time, the first
being Christopher Rieven Margot Kidder. To me, those are no
one ever did it better than those two, but these
two come close. I think they and they have potential
that there are more Superman films, and I can't imagine
there wouldn't be after this. There's real potential there. Because
that's the other thing about this film. It's so overstuffed,
and that is a criticism. There's too much in it.
Gun just threw so much into it that at times
I would never claim that this script is complex in
a way you know it's not right, but it is.
There's a lot of plot, there's a lot going on.
There are a lot of people introduced into it. I
don't think he does a very good job of introducing
a lot of them. The thing is, I sat there
and I knew every Easter Egg, every reference. And I
even said to you when we walked out, I was like,
did you get some of that?
Speaker 2: No? I mean I actually asked you, who's this guy?
Speaker 1: Right? But he doesn't.
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't want to spoil anything, but yeah,
when we walked up, you know, I said, by the way,
who's that guy?
Speaker 1: Right? There was a I mean, it's Metamorpho. It's Anthony
Kerrigan's character. A big part of the plot hangs on
his belief or whatever. And I know who he is
because of the comics, but they never explained that it is,
and they never explained his motivations or anything. And that's
kind of the other thing is that, as a Superman
fan of decades and decades and decades, it's wonderful to
get everybody who works at the Daily Planet on screen.
But you didn't know who any of those people were,
did you. Aside from Lewis and Jimmy, you had no
idea who any of those other people were.
Speaker 2: I kind of knew the photographer or whatever, that's Jimmy. Yeah,
I kind of knew him, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: They were putting in like Steve Lombard and Kat Grant
and Perry White, and I don't expect everyone to know
those names, but they were not introduced as characters. They
were just and then they you know, they were in
the film, like they all got on that spaceship together
with Lois and everything. But I'm like, damn, I know
who these people are, but they have not said who
these people are. So it's an overstuffed film, but it
is a lot of fun, I have to admit, and
it is amotional, not you know, obviously I'm not going
to oversell it. But when it's a triumph, when he triumphs,
you feel it. It's a total fist pump moment.
Speaker 2: So I guess because he gets punched so many times
so much, I guess you know you're route you feel it, Yeah,
and then when it happens you of course you get
excited about Yeah, I wanted to kill everybody.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the bad guys are really bad. I like
the engineer.
Speaker 2: I was like, why are they still standing up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, They'm all killed, the bad guys. You just want
them all dead at the end. And then I think
the one thing I did want to shout out are
and I'm sorry I don't have the cast page in
front of me. The actors that Gun cast as Superman's
adoptive parents, the Kents. Listen. I'm a city boy. I
can't claim to know exactly what rural farm life is like.
But to me, I was like, that's the first time
I find this casting belief, Like they look like farmers,
they look like people who would live in the middle
of Kansas. They sounded like farmers, like they just they
were correct. As I said to you. In Man of Steel,
the Henry Cavill film, his parents were played by Kevin
Costner and Diane Lane. I mean, they were beautiful people
with incredible bone structure. And sure, that's fine. I'm not
saying you can't have that out in rural amera. But
they gave him two parents. Actually, what I loved about
the casting was when you put him next to those
two people, it's very clear they're his adoptive parents, whereas
with Kevin Costner and Diane Lane, they could have played
Henry Cavill's biological parents.
Speaker 2: Also likely that in this version they're they're not playing
them as dumb people. You know, they're just you know,
they're yeah, they're they're they're following the news, they know
everything what's going on. Said, I mean, like you have
a tendency.
Speaker 1: To like dumb down rural people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but no, they're just they know what's going on.
Speaker 1: I loved it. Their farm looked like a farm, not
like some Norman Rockwell painting. It just looked, you know,
there's like an interstate going by. Uh, it's just I
think Gun thought about all of this about how do
I correct or respond to other versions of this story.
Like I said, that interview scene with Clark and Lewis,
it's just a response to the rather iconic Christopher Reeve
Marco Kidner interviews scene in Superman the movie. Ask because
that scene was so romantic and charming, and this scene
they wind up having an argument and almost breaking up.
It's it's very interesting how he looks at the iconography
of Superman and tries to address it and modernize it
without ever losing sight of who that character is. And
I don't think he does. The whole point of Superman
is that he is good, and that's the entire message
of the movie. This guy is good and we should
trust him because he's good.
Speaker 2: What did you think of the costume?
Speaker 1: Oh, I liked it. It's a different take. It's it
has a more of a uniform take than a I
absolutely hated the Cavil costume because it looked like it
was spray painted on him. It was so tight and
shiny and squeaky looking, and this looks like that's true
actual clothing. Done did not. He didn't want a messianic
figure carved out of marble. He wanted a dude. He
wanted a guy. So his clothes have wrinkles in them,
and it's a little loose fitting and everything. I actually
really really like it. It doesn't have to be some
skin tight spandex outfit. And I love the proportions on
the trunks because that has always been something that is
just very hard to get right on screen, even even
Christopher Reeves version of the Really, I don't think they
look all that good. This is more like they're like trunks.
They're not like a speedo, they're not like underwear. They're
more like boy shorts. And I actually think that's more
flattering and more interesting than walking around in a pair
of speedos over your pants, which never made sense to me. No,
I like the costume. I liked how they simplified the s.
I don't particularly need all that texture that they put
on modern superhero costumes. But again, they're trying to get
away from that whole spandex thing from the seventies and
the eighties.
Speaker 2: Can I imagine or the shade of the red that
they use, it was a little dark or maybe I
don't know.
Speaker 1: I just like I think the blue is brighter. It's
a lot brighter than Henry Cavill's blue, and it probably
sets off the red differently.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing is that his costume gets dirty
all the time this film. Yes, he does get the
crap beat out of him. Anyway, I think we've you know,
is there anything else you want to add? I loved it.
I don't think it's perfect, but it's the best DC
film since the first wonder Woman film.
Speaker 2: Well, I have a question for you before we in here,
did you think the director had in mind when he
made the film the whole thing about Superman coming from
another place and sort of like the immigrant thing type
of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is in the film, they talk
about him being an immigrant, they talk about his origins
and what it means, and they do play around with
some of on like anti immigrant rhetoric in the storyline.
You know, the film is receiving a lot of bullshit
culture war stuff this week, because you know, everything is
part of the culture war now, and I think, you know,
Gunn actually drummed up a little bit of that because
he talked about it in interviews about Superman being an
immigrant and about this being a pro immigrant story. I
just don't have anything to add to that. I don't
think the film was we should Actually there is a
couple stuff. There is a global conflict that is at
the center of the story. There was a conflict between
two countries, and it is very, very nearly impossible not
to see you know, an Israel Gaza sort of, even
though they try their best to sort of their two
fictional countries. But as you noted, and this is you know,
you sometimes get into this with superhero movies. It's not
so great where it's just like, if you want to show,
you know, people who really need Superman, then show brown people,
you know what I mean. Like, there's just a little
bit too much of brown people looking up at the
heavens and Superman come save us. And I get it,
I get what he was going for, but there's something
very there's like a colonialist sort of condescension in those scenes.
Speaker 2: The close ups were a little too much, I agree,
but yeah, I even noticed it, and I'm like the
little boy, Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, brown people in the desert begging for Superman
to come and save them. And I'm like, okay, I
mean I get it, and you've got to root this
stuff in a believable world. And I don't mind that
he was making right, you know, I don't mind that
at all. I just feel like sometimes the whole a
dusty brown face looking up to the heavens for you know,
their superhero to come. That's not the greatest trope in
the world to be bringing into this. Like I said,
not a perfect film, but a smart one, an interesting
take on the character. Yes, he's an immigrant, and they
make that very clear. And but I don't feel that
the film. I don't feel the film is heavily political.
I just don't. I didn't get that sense that there
was political commentary being made here. There was stuff about
conflict and war and you know the the reasons behind
these things. But that's superhero comics generally is about good
versus evil, and I think that's that's.
Speaker 2: The way to go in a way with with movies
like that. I mean, you can't always make the movies
about you know, airplanes and trains and saving people, you know,
like in the city. I mean you have to expand
a little and by that, you know, you start you
have to start saving people from all the countries and
doing all the things.
Speaker 1: I get one of the things I loved is that,
and I thought it was funny and it was subtle.
He didn't overdo it, but he made it clear that
this is a world in which this shit happens. So
there's a scene where two characters are having a very
very serious conversation at night, and outside the window is
this massive battle between superheroes and some massive space creature
going on, and it has nothing to do with the scene,
and it's just like, oh, well, that's just something that happens.
Now in this world. There's there's superheroes battle in the sky,
and people kind of pay attention to it, but they really,
you know, that's just it's sort of like living in
Tokyo when Godzilla was you know, it's just if you
live in Metropolis, you're sort of used to seeing these things,
and they don't overstate it. And for me, a lot
of that was very clever. Because it's a self contained film,
they don't set up any other storylines or anything like that,
but they give you enough of a world for you
to understand there's a lot going on here, and they
could they could go anywhere with any of this, So
it sets up a universe, but in a very open
ended way, there's only three other superheroes in the film,
and they only have small parts. But basically except for
mister Terrific, who lives up to his name, he has
some really fantastic scenes. And I'm glad because that's not
a really well known character, and I'm glad that he
got those moments. But the point is that this is
just a world where there's all this For all we know,
Wonder Woman's already out there, Batman's already in Gotham City.
It's just it's painted in such broad strokes, but it
lets you know that, yes, this is a pre existing
world full of superheroes. Anyway, that's it, right, Yeah, Yeah,
thumbs up on this. If you have any enjoyment of
these kinds of films, then yes, I would absolutely recommend it. It's,
like I said, the best DC film probably since Wonder Woman. Yeah, well,
there hasn't been many good DC films, and there hasn't
actually been any good Marvel films for a really long
time either, So this does feel like a breath of
fresh air. Like it or not. Superheroes are not going anywhere.
Those films are not going anywhere. They make way too
much money. So the best we can hope for is
good ones, interesting ones, non formulaic ones, and I feel
like Man of Steel, I mean, Superman actually gets hot done.
All right, shall we take a break and come back
and yell at Cary Bradshaw, Yeah, all right, we'll be
right back.
Speaker 2: We're back.
Speaker 1: Tab Hunter just yawned and made a little sound. I
don't know if you're going to pick it up on
the mic, but it's so cute.
Speaker 2: He wanted to say that we're back.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He is the whiniest little boy prize all the time.
Speaker 2: He's wonderful.
Speaker 1: He is Oh he's rolling over now, Okay, so and
just like that whatever I mean, I just spoke about
thirty minutes about the Superman. I really don't feel like
talking about the stupidest show now.
Speaker 2: The thing is that I mentioned that to you last
night as we were watching the episode, that you know,
the conversation now on on social media is not good
at about the show. People are really hating everything. Nothing
makes sense, and they just hate how the characters are acting,
and you know they just yeah, I mean, in the beginning,
it was a few people talking about it, but now
I feel like a lot more people were size of
the show, even though they say I'm gonna keep watching,
but they all hate what was even.
Speaker 1: Work up to the level of hate watching. Yeah, it's
just not interesting. So this whole thing, this whole episode
was about a party at Carrie's house and it was
to cheer up Charlotte. And I mean, what was the point.
What was the point of this episode? What was the
point of it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's no no, no, I mean the
whole thing with the writer downstairs, you know, the whole
thing with him thinking that her writing is amazing. I mean,
that's so not real.
Speaker 1: It's so cringe where they were like, oh my god, Carrie,
it's the most amazing opening sentence I've ever read. And
I'm like, no, it's not.
Speaker 2: First of all, that's the thing. They just use a
character to to tell carry about how wonderful she Yeah, exactly,
Like like, first of all, they introduced this guy as
an asshole.
Speaker 1: But now amazing thing he's ever met.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's smoking a pipe the hell I.
Speaker 1: Don't care about. But it's just what does that have
to do with it? I know, it's just like what
else the bitch eating crackers mode? Yeah, that's that's the thing.
I mean God, how interesting would it have been if
he had come to her and said, listen, I don't
think it's right right right, Like that would have been
interesting right now. But it's amazing, amazing the most flow.
So first of all, if you're reading the first chapter,
you're not really getting the hook of any The best
you can get is is the language working? Is your
sentence structure working? But you can't give that kind of
critique on one chapter blah blah book.
Speaker 2: I mean Miranda's steak on the chapter with more real
than them when she said, well I didn't get to
read much.
Speaker 1: You know that scene?
Speaker 2: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: Again, are they trying to make carry into an asshole?
I don't do you really not see the way she
went after Miranda.
Speaker 2: Right delusion of now, I just felt.
Speaker 1: Like I miss Miranda. I'm the Miranda who would have said,
you know, shut the fuck up, like who would have
gone back at her and said, why are you talking
to me this way? They used to have the best fights,
the two of them, best scripted fight.
Speaker 2: Now she's tiptoeing around Carrie all the time.
Speaker 1: Everybody's tiptoeing around Carrie all the time, And I'm like, why.
Speaker 2: Why Branda would not behave the way she behaved with
the whole the whole episode.
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, we're all over the map, he know.
All I can think of is the time that Miranda
gave a toast at Charlotte's engagement dinner or rehearsal dinner,
and at the toast accidentally caught on fire. Yeah, and
she screamed, and she turned to Carrie and said, Okay,
I've shown I've shown emotion in public. I'm ready to
go home now. To me, that's Miranda, right. So Miranda
like trying to get everyone to sing. Girls just want
to have I'm like, who the hell is this person
trying to get all her girlfriends to come up and sing?
And I'm like, okay, first off, who are you? Secondly,
have you met Carrie and Charlotte because they're not going
to do that. Why are you having these characters after
this way? Like Lissa's son just going on and on
singing like that's listen, I didn't and then Charlotte's daughter
acting like a jackass.
Speaker 2: I mean, the whole thing is like, why why are
we paying attention to these things?
Speaker 1: They never developed these characters, so suddenly, you know, Lisa
Todd Wexley's son. I guess they're implying that he's gay
or something like he's at theater queen. Oh, it's fine.
I don't care. But and it was a lot of
time devoted to a kid that we haven't spent any
time exactly.
Speaker 2: I'm like, why is he singing NonStop?
Speaker 1: Like there were three songs? Yeah, I'm all right, this.
Speaker 2: Kid never opened his mouth. So now we're listening to
him sing and.
Speaker 1: We're watching like, oh, Carrie's I mean, Charlotte's co workers,
they they are they going in on a gift? Oh?
I only glat Candy? Who are you? You're on the
way background people? I don't know you? Why am I
supposed to care about it?
Speaker 2: There's you know, I'm watching the episode and I have
I get a little bit of a hope here. Okay, fine,
they're gonna develop, you know, uh, those carrots a little more.
I mean, you know, like but no, I mean the
whole thing with oh my god, the mother the coming
from Italy, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: She has an accent?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: And then she's from Buffalo, and then occasionally she doesn't
have an accent? Like, what are you trying to do
with this?
Speaker 2: Character.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you just can't, Like, they just wanted Patty
Lapone and Sarah Jessica Parker having lunch together in a
restaurant because you know, they're two like iconic New.
Speaker 2: York, so they need to have a scene together, and like.
Speaker 1: Nothing about it made sense.
Speaker 2: Why are they having lunch?
Speaker 1: They just met, They just met. Harrie's like, we love
your son, And I'm like, are there any scenes of
Carrie talking directly to that guy? Because yeah, what it's
just dolls, paper dog, just moving little dolls around. Nothing
makes any sense. None of the characters look or sound
like the characters from the previous season, you know, series.
It's just I don't know, there's nothing satisfying about watching
this show to mean nothing at all. I'm finishing out
this season, but I will not be doing it next year.
Speaker 2: And the thing is that they will come back because
these people are delusional. They have They refuse to to
accept the criticism. Uh you know that you see out there.
Speaker 1: Does everyone's hate watching it? That's the thing.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. Yeah, people are watching it. That's all
they care. Yeah, they don't care if you don't like
the show. Uh, they always come back with some sort
of excuse why. You know, the characters behaved a certain way,
but they all I don't understand anybody like Sema, my god,
the woman suddainly has no money for anything.
Speaker 1: Right and her eyes, you know, she can't afford it.
You know what, what none of that makes sense? Come on,
she's not poor. No, she's not poor. She lost her
job or her career, but she and she had that
type of work like if you were a high powered
realtor in Manhattan. She's not unemployed like she would immediately
start working again. Everything about that storyline is dumb as hell.
And I didn't mind the flirtation with the gardener, but
then when it became real, I'm like, no, I don't
buy this at all. I don't really see her with
that guy. I just don't see it.
Speaker 2: And he's a garden All of a sudden, he's a friend.
Now he's in the kitchen having conversations with him.
Speaker 1: What I mean what they're not allowed to talk to
the help. I mean he's a professional working you know. Yeah,
that doesn't bother me. I don't care about that.
Speaker 2: But he's a friend now in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what, I just don't get it. I just don't
see a lot of spark there. I guess they wanted
her to have a young guy. They wanted her to,
you know, someone who's a little you know, outside her
norm or whatever. We've seen the kind of men she dates.
So but I don't know. I don't think he's like
everybody else in this show. I don't think he's interesting,
like none of you.
Speaker 2: No money is interesting and nobody's interesting. Yeah everything he's like,
I don't care about this. Why why are we spending
that much time here? I mean always, I know that.
Speaker 1: I got to say she looked amazing though her her hair, makeup,
and costumes gorgeous. But I don't get this character like
we have. Her son on the show had like one
line the entire season. But for some reason, we're going
to spend time on his mother.
Speaker 2: And he looks like she's staying for well she said
she was, yeah, so, which means that we will have
another episode.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just okay. So, now Anthony has a
storyline because his future mother in law doesn't like him,
and I mean, I guess it's just whatever. What else?
And Charlotte is allowed to talk about Harry's oh cancer. Now,
actually that line that it was fine.
Speaker 2: That was the only time that I was like, this,
this is good. When he says, you know, it's not
fair that I asked you to not mention that I
have cancer to your friends. Right that that scene was great.
I was like, all right, this is good, that's what
we want.
Speaker 1: But now everything that led to that scene was and
there was the whole thing Mark. You know, Carrie lied
to Miranda about her dog having cancer, and then Dolly
brought CBD treats for the and everybody in this scenario
was acting like an idiot. Every single person's acting dumb,
and you're I'm supposed to believe you're all sophisticated, intelligent
New Yorkers. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Yeah, I first of all, I don't get it.
I know so many New Yorkers and none of none
of them behave like that. None of it.
Speaker 1: I know adults, and none of them behave like that. Yeah,
I don't know. Going back to that thing with Miranda
and Carrie almost having a fight but not having a fight,
I don't understand what they're trying to do there. I
guess Carrie feels an attraction to this guy but doesn't
want to pursue and oh and that's the other thing,
the way they talk about Aiden.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well at one point she says, well, Aiden and I
have twenty years together. I'm like, no, you don't, No,
you don't. You had like a year together and then
twenty years apart, right, that's not a twenty year relationship.
And then now there was this really weird moment where
Anthony says at the party to Carrie, if it comes up,
I was never married, and she said neither was I,
And I'm what, Yeah, what the hell does that mean?
First off, who's asking about whether you were married, Carrie?
And why would you lie about that? They really want
to put the entire big relationship. Oh yeah, they just
it doesn't work, like you spent six seasons of a
show and two movies obsessing over that relationship. Like I
get that she's moved on, Like okay, she's a widow
and she's moved on. But they seem to want to
like write it out as some sort of mistake and
that Aiden was always the only one I love and
why did you do that? Why did you have to
do that? I get that Chrisnoth as problematic and he's
been canceled, and I understand it, and believe me, that
relationship was never a healthy one on screen. But you
can't just write it off like that with no explanation
to the to the audience and expect the audience to
be on board. You had us every step of the
way on this relationship. We struggled with you for years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you're in this mansion because of his.
Speaker 1: Money, actually exactly. Yeah, So it's very weird how they
never mentioned Big. You would never know that Carrie was
married for twenty years. You would never know it because
she doesn't act like someone who was.
Speaker 2: Well, he's gonna text her.
Speaker 1: From beyond from the grave. Yeah, just no, this show
has to be written off. I'm sorry. We're going to
finish it out. I think there's four more episodes.
Speaker 2: Or something like that. They're definitely coming back, there's no doubt.
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. But I watch it, I
will not be now. It insults my intelligence. Yes, and
these are not the characters. These are just not the
characters that I followed for all those years.
Speaker 2: And they're destroying all my memories of they actually are
thinking of that scene with Miranda's setting her toast on
fire accidentally while she was trying to and it's such
a funny scene, and she said, I showed an emotion
and I need to go home now.
Speaker 1: And then we see her like trying to get them
all to sing karay okiu. I'm like, who is this
bullshit bage? Oh bullshit bagels exactly?
Speaker 2: Come on, I mean so many great no now.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, Carrie, you're the greatest writer ever. I know,
I know you Please. They just made her so unlikable.
Speaker 2: It, yeah, I don't understand. They're just there. It feel
it feels like they're they're they're telling certain stories and
using these characters to play them, you know what I mean.
Like it just they create these moments and then like
all right, let's let's have Carrie say that, Let's have
Miranda say that. Yeah, like, oh, play that even though
it makes no sense.
Speaker 1: And just as another comparison, one of the funniest episodes
of the series of the original series was when they
all went to Atlantic City for Charlotte's birthday. Right, Oh
my god, so this is you know, you can't help
but make these comparisons because you're having another birthday party
for Charlotte, except this one is lame and I don't
know who any of these people are, and the other
one was actually really really funny, and there was all
this character stuff that you know, unpacked in that episode.
I believe that was the episode where where Samantha broke
up with Richard. I don't remember where sure were the
pearl Pong and she had to walk up all those
flights of side. Oh my god, it's been a pearl punk.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. There is no everything is so shallow,
there is no no like, there's.
Speaker 1: Nothing funny, there's nothing thought provoking, there's nothing interesting. Characters
don't from week to week like all right, at least
Todd Wexley's father died last week. Did she even have
a line this week? Did she? I mean, I think
she had a line about her annoying son and that
was that's it. That's that's her entire arc.
Speaker 2: No, it's just what husband there.
Speaker 1: For office? Like what happened to that? No, let's have
an entire thirty minutes about this stupid damn party, which
I don't even like any it's party and I don't know,
all right, I think we should wrap this.
Speaker 2: Up thick of it. I mean, yeah, I mean that
that's pretty much it. They're not much to say, but
it's interesting to see. Like I said, uh, people talking
about it in a very negative way now, but they
still watch it, so and that's all they can.
Speaker 1: I think it probably has one more season left. I
think the wheels have come off it, and I think
generally most people who watch it understand it's not a
good show. I think for the first couple of seasons
we were kind of hoping, you know, get its act together.
But this is the act. This is the show they
want to put out, and it really sucks. So yeah, done,
and as you said, they're they're coming close to ruining.
I think when this season is done, I need to
go and have a nice little sex industry rewatch. I
haven't really watched that series in.
Speaker 2: The years, and I do want to say, if you
go back, it's it's a very problematic show.
Speaker 1: I mean there are certain yeah years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to say that everything is perfect.
It is, and especially if you watch now, but it
was very it was creative, it was interesting.
Speaker 1: It asked questions. Yes, people in that show act like
recognizable adults with real problems and real fears and concerns
and that's not what this show is. It's people in mansions.
Speaker 2: And if you watch Sex and the City, I mean,
things make sense. This is what people that age, you know,
go through. Now you have an opportunity here to show
people you know in their age doing interesting things, have
interesting discussion about things that they go through. But no,
they just have these very very very shallow lives, you know,
worrying about silly bullshit things, you know. And they're all
are wealthy a ton of money, and worry about silly things.
So yeah, there's nothing there.
Speaker 1: I'm nothing there, all right, and I'm tapped out. M
Do you have anything else you want to add? Well,
that's it, all right. Two podcasts in one week. Yeah, Hey,
we'll be back next week with whatever cross the Rise
across our Desks, which will probably be one another episode
of End. Just like that. Until then, take care of yourself,
love you mean it. Bye bye. Include Advancing Link and
Advancing Week in Advance Tak to a Brasier Field to
extension