WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Oh is it show die?

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<v Speaker 2>People say good money to see this movie.

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<v Speaker 3>When they go out to a theater, they want cloth, sodas, pop,

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<v Speaker 3>popcorn and no monsters.

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<v Speaker 4>In the protection booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.

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<v Speaker 5>Run it off. I stared death in the face and

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<v Speaker 5>for the first time I saw my true self, my son,

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<v Speaker 5>they are play we are?

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<v Speaker 1>Why do you hunt?

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<v Speaker 5>My father?

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<v Speaker 6>What's evil into the world?

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<v Speaker 2>I'd take it out?

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<v Speaker 7>Which shall.

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<v Speaker 6>Power is about?

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<v Speaker 2>Swift? Tell me how about this hunter?

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<v Speaker 6>What's you're on his list?

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<v Speaker 3>There's only one way off?

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<v Speaker 1>Who's next?

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<v Speaker 5>If we?

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<v Speaker 1>If we will?

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<v Speaker 2>If in places? Who you really are? And you would

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<v Speaker 2>call me a blitzend?

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<v Speaker 5>You are exactly like our father, just another man on

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<v Speaker 5>tam or drown.

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<v Speaker 6>There is an animal in Juana pass.

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<v Speaker 3>Don't you want to know why? Oh wait, they're right.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White.

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<v Speaker 2>Joining me, of course, is mister Chris Tashue.

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<v Speaker 4>I prefer to be known as Craven Morehead.

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<v Speaker 2>Also on this episode is the one and only father Malone.

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<v Speaker 6>My grandmother died and then I never saw her again.

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<v Speaker 2>On this episode, it's a very special crossover with the

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<v Speaker 2>Culture Cast and Midnight Viewing. We were talking about Craven

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<v Speaker 2>the Hunter. I am Craven some Craven from twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 2>directed by JC Chandor written by a whole bunch of people.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we've got Richard wank And and the art markham

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<v Speaker 2>ampersand Matt Holloway all taken a swipe with this script.

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<v Speaker 2>It is all about Craven, the titular Craven serge A

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<v Speaker 2>craven Off aka Craven the Hunter, and his complex relationship

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<v Speaker 2>with his ruthless father, Nikolai Cravenoff, who's played by the

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<v Speaker 2>one only Russell Crowe. Mcamuel, Yeah and yeah, just how

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<v Speaker 2>he became Craven through magic and all kinds of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>We will be spoiling this film, So if you don't

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<v Speaker 2>want anything ruin, please turn off the podcast and come

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<v Speaker 2>back after you've gone to the theater. Maybe rent to

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<v Speaker 2>this on video and we will still be here. So, Chris,

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<v Speaker 2>what did you think of Craven the Hunter.

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<v Speaker 4>I am so disappointed that you guys made me watch

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<v Speaker 4>this movie. This is one of the most unintelligible pieces

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<v Speaker 4>of shit I have seen in a very long time.

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<v Speaker 4>If you've if you've kept up with the news and

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<v Speaker 4>the information that's been coming out about the movies leading

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<v Speaker 4>up to its release. This is the last Spider Verse

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<v Speaker 4>Sony movie. That's it. There's nothing else. This is the

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<v Speaker 4>last one, and good fucking riddance. Because this movie is

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<v Speaker 4>borderline unintelligible, if it's not just completely unintelligible. I don't

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<v Speaker 4>understand why Aaron Taylor Johnson is in this movie other

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<v Speaker 4>than if it was the Dakota Johnson of it. All words,

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<v Speaker 4>I need money, I like money, Give me money, and

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<v Speaker 4>I'll play Craven because I can't imagine he read this

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<v Speaker 4>script and went, Wow, what scenes fealing I'm gonna be doing?

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<v Speaker 4>Is Craven the Hunter. I was not surprised that it

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<v Speaker 4>was quite terrible. However, I will say, on the scale

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<v Speaker 4>of things, it somehow still manages to be better than

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<v Speaker 4>Madam Webb. That is damning it with the faintest of

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<v Speaker 4>faint craze. But for me, this movie was at times

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<v Speaker 4>laughably bad. I can't believe that the movie was two

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<v Speaker 4>fucking hours long on top of everything else, as if

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<v Speaker 4>we needed to be bombarded with two hours of this nonsense.

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<v Speaker 4>But I did not enjoy it. It was a slog

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<v Speaker 4>in my opening statements. If Aaron Taylor Johnson is in

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<v Speaker 4>fact cast as James Bond, that's all I'm gonna say,

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<v Speaker 4>because I'm not looking forward to that. If that is

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<v Speaker 4>in fact going to end, beat the case. There's my

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<v Speaker 4>early opening salvo. And as they say, manifesto about Craven

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<v Speaker 4>the Hunter, what about you, Father Malone?

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<v Speaker 6>I liked it. Of the Sony spinoff movies that aren't

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<v Speaker 6>directly Spider Man movies, I think it's the best of them.

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<v Speaker 6>I enjoyed it more than any of the Venom movies

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<v Speaker 6>three of those fuckers, certainly more than Madame Webb. What

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<v Speaker 6>else did we have? They did one more? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>It's Mormon time.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, this was way more fun than this movie. Yes,

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<v Speaker 4>oh yes, yeah. If you like this, you once took

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<v Speaker 4>itself way too seriously.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, I agree?

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<v Speaker 6>And I appreciated that about it, because Morbius took itself

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<v Speaker 6>just as seriously. It's just that it was fucking terrible,

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<v Speaker 6>and if any joy you got from that movie was

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<v Speaker 6>making fun of it, this is a more complete story.

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<v Speaker 2>Look.

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<v Speaker 6>My problems with this movie are as a fan of

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<v Speaker 6>Marvel comics who remember Craven being one thing a villain,

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<v Speaker 6>and a pretty good villain at that to turning him

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<v Speaker 6>directly into a fucking superhero, because the story is effectively

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<v Speaker 6>the same.

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<v Speaker 2>Here.

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<v Speaker 6>We get Craven, we get the look they retconned him

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<v Speaker 6>in the early eighties JM. Demitaeus and he took over Craven.

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<v Speaker 6>He wret coond of a lot of the Russian heritage

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<v Speaker 6>and stuff. We get Craven, we get his dad, we

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<v Speaker 6>get his brother, who is the chameleon, who is the

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<v Speaker 6>first Spider Man villain. We get a lot of what's

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<v Speaker 6>really right about Craven, but at the same time he's

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<v Speaker 6>noble and doing all the right things. The problem with

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<v Speaker 6>these Sinister six type spinoff movies that they've been attempting

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<v Speaker 6>is that they never give us the actual fucking villain

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<v Speaker 6>as a character. But compared to all the venoms and

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<v Speaker 6>the morbiuses and stuff, as a story of a family

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<v Speaker 6>and this weird superhero kind of world that they're plucked into.

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<v Speaker 6>I enjoyed it. There was a definite hero villain story

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<v Speaker 6>going on. I like characters. I don't know what to

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<v Speaker 6>tell you. I liked that they had Calypso in here,

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<v Speaker 6>who's his love interest from the comics. And I actually

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<v Speaker 6>think they did her character better than they did in

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<v Speaker 6>the comics. I don't think it was great. I think

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<v Speaker 6>this movie needed to come out six years ago and

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<v Speaker 6>then there would have been some hope for the Sony universe.

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<v Speaker 6>Then it would have felt like they were building towards something.

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<v Speaker 6>I think there's a lot of superfluous stuff in this movie.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't think it's the best by any means. This

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<v Speaker 6>is not a great movie, but comparatively speaking, had a

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<v Speaker 6>good time.

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<v Speaker 4>I will say you've said it, and I've said it before,

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<v Speaker 4>and I think Mike will probably equit as well. The

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<v Speaker 4>fact that these movies are coming out in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 4>four is wild to me. These movies feel like they

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<v Speaker 4>should have been coming out in the mid tens, if

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<v Speaker 4>not the late two thousands. Like this style of making

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<v Speaker 4>superhero movies is not a thing anymore, and I hope

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<v Speaker 4>they realize it because they're not getting any further with

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<v Speaker 4>any of this.

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<v Speaker 6>Sony is like country music. It's almost ten years behind

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<v Speaker 6>the times, Like country gets poppy eventually. Now country is

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<v Speaker 6>getting a bit hip hoppy and it's always a little tenure.

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<v Speaker 6>So Sony's just, oh, we figured out actually how to

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<v Speaker 6>do a superhero movie too late.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've been hearing that this is doing so well

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<v Speaker 2>that they might actually continue the Spider verse that they're

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<v Speaker 2>trying to do over here. I would say this might

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<v Speaker 2>be the best of the lot for me, and that

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<v Speaker 2>includes the Spider Man movies, because I fucking hated those things. Man,

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<v Speaker 2>oh God, could not stand those and I'm so glad

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<v Speaker 2>that they're not coming out with any more of those.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care what happened to Peter Parker's parents. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't care about the Sinister six.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh you're talking about the Andrew Garfield stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, because that's all part of this, right, This

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<v Speaker 2>is all Sony Like. That was Sony's oh we're going

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<v Speaker 2>we got to make a Spider Man movie or else

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<v Speaker 2>we'll lose the.

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<v Speaker 4>Right time part of the MCU.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Sony verse.

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<v Speaker 6>It is the Sony verse, Mike, But I think, but

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<v Speaker 6>it is the mc Once the MCU got a hold

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<v Speaker 6>of Spider Man, I think Sony was doing a wait

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<v Speaker 6>and see kind of thing. By then, they had released

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<v Speaker 6>Andrew Garfield, and I think they thought they were going

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<v Speaker 6>to have a trading situation where they were going to

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<v Speaker 6>get Tom harl Holland every other movie instead of five

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<v Speaker 6>movies in a row for Marvel.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, which would be fine. It is just so

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<v Speaker 2>strange to go about this through the villains rather than

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<v Speaker 2>through the heroes and put together this whole collection of villains,

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<v Speaker 2>because you're right, it's odd that Craven is a hero

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<v Speaker 2>in this, and I don't know what's going to suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>turn him into a villain other than his intense fear

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<v Speaker 2>of spiders.

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<v Speaker 4>I suppose, yeah, that was spiders that look like men.

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<v Speaker 6>That's an next logical step of his prenatory fear that

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<v Speaker 6>is somehow genetically passed down by his insane mother.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, the fear that his mother had is the same

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<v Speaker 2>fear that he has too, which okay, But yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't mind this one at all. If anything, I was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I can see myself watching this again, no problem. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like those first two Venom films, especially the first one.

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't go back to Kurmage, but the first Venom

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<v Speaker 2>film I've watched quite a few times. I think this

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<v Speaker 2>is Heads and Shoulders above Madame Webb. That was just

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<v Speaker 2>the shit show. Horrible acting, horrible everything, just the way

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<v Speaker 2>that the whole story was put together was really bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Still don't know why it needed to be a period

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<v Speaker 2>piece other than that Madame Webb is super old in

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<v Speaker 2>the Convicts and we need to just set this back

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<v Speaker 2>in that free Peter Parker being born eighties kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but yeah, I've enjoyed it. I was

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<v Speaker 2>really glad to see Alessandro Nivola. I kept watching him

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<v Speaker 2>through the whole movie, going is that Pollax Troy? That

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<v Speaker 2>looks like Pollax Troy and just that low talking that

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<v Speaker 2>he did as Alexi's whatever rhino. I was like, Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this is pretty cool. The Foreigner, I don't know. He

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<v Speaker 2>was just more of an annoyance to me than anything.

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<v Speaker 2>But was it no kay villain? And I was glad

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<v Speaker 2>when he died. I applauded when he died.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, they needed the foreigner. See what we're talking about

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<v Speaker 6>here is Sony owning everything that came out of the

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<v Speaker 6>Spider Man books. Basically, if it originated there, they get

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<v Speaker 6>to use it. Unfortunately, there's only like one decent hero

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<v Speaker 6>to emerge from Spider Man, and that's fucking Spider Man.

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<v Speaker 6>So they're left with these villains. And I think it's

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<v Speaker 6>a good idea to give us these spinoff I want

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<v Speaker 6>to see a Sinaster six movie. And it's really easy

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<v Speaker 6>to do that. You just make a villain worse than them.

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<v Speaker 6>Bob's your uncle. But they have to be villains to

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<v Speaker 6>begin with, or what's the fucking point of this, because

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<v Speaker 6>we're not gonna buy the turn when they have to

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<v Speaker 6>finally turn against Spider Man, they're gonna have to concoc

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<v Speaker 6>some bullshit like they're fucking mystically controlled or some nonsense.

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<v Speaker 6>But I can't see this Craven, no matter how badly

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<v Speaker 6>he fears whatever, going after Spider Man the way he

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<v Speaker 6>does in the books.

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<v Speaker 4>They reminded me a lot of the Scorpion King. When

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<v Speaker 4>I watched that movie, I'm like, how is he the

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<v Speaker 4>bad guy? And the Mummy returns. When we were walking

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<v Speaker 4>out of the movie theater, we saw the poster for

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<v Speaker 4>the movie and it says villains aren't born there made.

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<v Speaker 4>And yes, Craven is a villain, but not in this movie.

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<v Speaker 4>Craven is a villa, but not in this telling of

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<v Speaker 4>the story. The worst sin of this movie is the

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<v Speaker 4>fact that it does not understand the character of Craven

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<v Speaker 4>at all. It has taken the character of Craven and

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<v Speaker 4>done something to him that I think is Wolverine esque,

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<v Speaker 4>is what it feels like, Oh, we don't have access

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<v Speaker 4>to Wolverine, so we'll just make a Wolverine movie with

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<v Speaker 4>how Wolverine. And that's what it reminded me of, Like

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<v Speaker 4>an R rated like Logan essentially, but you know if

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<v Speaker 4>Logan was made by less capable people, though I'm not

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<v Speaker 4>sure I would put James Mangold in a camp of

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<v Speaker 4>capable people, given the amazing work he turned in with

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<v Speaker 4>such classics like Dial of Destiny.

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<v Speaker 6>It's better than X Men Origin's Wolverine.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, yeah, that's.

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<v Speaker 4>That is the damningest of faint praise.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, it's still a better movie than that.

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<v Speaker 4>I agree with you there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would actually wouldn't mind seeing a sequel to

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<v Speaker 2>this to see how Craven goes after his brother. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was glad the way that they slow built Chameleon.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean they handed it too. Is at one point

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<v Speaker 2>when he's singing like Tony Bennett and his dad's oh

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<v Speaker 2>he's a chameleon, and I was like, okay, the whole

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<v Speaker 2>Russian thing, and I'm so glad that they were like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, these kids were raised in America, so it

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't have to be Aaron Taylor Johnson putting on his

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<v Speaker 2>whole Socovian accent.

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<v Speaker 4>Is it a Quicksilver again?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. I was just like, please, no, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't need that, because Age of Ultron, for me is

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<v Speaker 2>one of the worst Marvel films that has been made,

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<v Speaker 2>just because they didn't understand what the hell to do

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<v Speaker 2>with that thing. But once he started to speak with

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<v Speaker 2>an American accent, I was like, oh, thank god, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>much happier.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and speaking to the James Bond of it all,

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<v Speaker 6>whenever his name got mentioned, I thought that's a terrible idea. Honestly,

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<v Speaker 6>watching this movie, I thought, oh no, I get it.

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<v Speaker 6>I think I could see him as it. Yeah, same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I said the exact same thing with Chris yesterday, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when he's all dappered up and in London he's got

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<v Speaker 2>a brother's jacket on. I'm just like, look at this

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<v Speaker 2>dapper motherfucker. This guy could be Bond.

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<v Speaker 6>And you mentioned like the family thing where they build

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<v Speaker 6>in that we get the chameleon by the end. I

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<v Speaker 6>would like a sequel that did feel natural. I enjoyed

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<v Speaker 6>the dynamics in this family, all the while dealing with

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<v Speaker 6>the external threat, which is ostensibly Navola as the Rhino.

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<v Speaker 6>The effects for Rhino are a little bit ropey, not

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<v Speaker 6>that great during that final sequence, but I gotta say

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<v Speaker 6>it reminded me that as a child, I religiously watched

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<v Speaker 6>that Spider Man cartoon. That's the Spider Man, that's where

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<v Speaker 6>that where that song came from, and the Rhino was

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<v Speaker 6>always my favorite character. I just thought he was the

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<v Speaker 6>fucking coolest. So I like that we got him and

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<v Speaker 6>it wasn't a giant fucking robot with Paul Jabbadi inside him.

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<v Speaker 2>Doing a horrible Russian accent in.

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<v Speaker 6>That role whoa over the top, over the planet.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. It was interesting that they name checked Miles Warren

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<v Speaker 2>and I was just like, oh, man, I know that name.

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<v Speaker 2>And it took me a little while to realize that

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<v Speaker 2>he was the Jackal, and I was like, oh fuck,

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<v Speaker 2>are they going to build in the clone story to

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<v Speaker 2>this thing? I hope not, because that's probably the worst

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<v Speaker 2>thing that ever happened to Spider Man was the whole

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<v Speaker 2>idea of him Riley, Oh yeah, Ben Riley. And because

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<v Speaker 2>there's more than just him, right, aren't there more? Clones

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<v Speaker 2>of Spider Man. Oh Jesus.

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<v Speaker 6>But I gotta say teasing the Jackal was pretty cool

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<v Speaker 6>at having him be like a genetic splicing kind of

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<v Speaker 6>a guy, because, let's face it, most of Spider Man's

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<v Speaker 6>villains are based on animals, so we might as well

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<v Speaker 6>have someone pulling all those strings.

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<v Speaker 2>But also, is so much better that Rhino is a

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<v Speaker 2>genetic thing. And I like the whole the medicine that

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<v Speaker 2>keeps him from transforming and talking about pain that it

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<v Speaker 2>causes when he transforms a little bit smarter than the

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<v Speaker 2>original Rhino, who I think was what just he got

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<v Speaker 2>stuck in the suit. Something happened and he's never going

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<v Speaker 2>to leave that suit. And I'm like, man, that.

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<v Speaker 6>Suit's gotta stink exactly like black masks. Yes, there is

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<v Speaker 6>shirt gall at that point.

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<v Speaker 4>When it came to Alessandro Navola, who I think he's

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<v Speaker 4>a great actor. Jurassic Park three, Come on. He also

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<v Speaker 4>played Michael Imperioli's father in The Many Saints of Newark,

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00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:24.960
<v Speaker 4>the Soprano's prequel. He's good. I wish they gave him

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<v Speaker 4>more to do because it seems like they gave most

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<v Speaker 4>of everything to Russell Crowe.

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<v Speaker 6>It's Russell Crowe and everything to do.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, like Russell crow is it just mirrored? Does it

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<v Speaker 4>feel like we've gotten a glut of things with Russell

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<v Speaker 4>Crowe in them all of a sudden.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Oh yeah, glad either two noes.

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<v Speaker 4>There's that Netflix movie where he's like a psycho like

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<v Speaker 4>driver that's supposedly pretty good. And then he was in

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<v Speaker 4>the Exorcism, and then he was in that was the Exorcism,

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00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:01.960
<v Speaker 4>and then the other one was The Excers Post Extorsis,

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00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.160
<v Speaker 4>which was a hoot by the way, which is great. Yeah,

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00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:06.519
<v Speaker 4>The Pope's Exorcist was a lot of fun. I'm super

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<v Speaker 4>excited to see a sequel to that movie. Russell krop

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00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:13.000
<v Speaker 4>steals the show. And that's too bad because again, to

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<v Speaker 4>go back to what I was saying earlier, like Aaron

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<v Speaker 4>Taylor Johnson is just one of those actors I don't get.

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<v Speaker 4>I haven't understood it since Godzilla. I got it when

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<v Speaker 4>he was playing kick Ass. He was in Shanghai Knights

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<v Speaker 4>as Charlie Chaplin many moons ago, like many moons ago. Yeah,

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00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:34.720
<v Speaker 4>he played child Charlie Chaplin in Shanghai Knights. That was

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<v Speaker 4>like one of his first acting roles. He was like

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<v Speaker 4>a child. I just for me, he's like Sam Worthington

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<v Speaker 4>and Joel Kinneman.

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<v Speaker 6>Like Joel Kinneman. Do not compare them to that other f.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay has this Sam Worthington, Jay Courtney.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I get those two being lumped into the same category.

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<v Speaker 6>And I see Aaron Taylor Johnson, depending on the role,

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00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:56.359
<v Speaker 6>falling into that as well. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 6>you mentioned a couple where he's good, and I think

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<v Speaker 6>he's really good here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think he's really good in Bullet Train.

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<v Speaker 2>I really like him in that one. I'm curious to

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<v Speaker 2>see him in this Nosferato. He's supposed to be in

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00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.960
<v Speaker 2>that as well. And he was okay in The King's

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<v Speaker 2>Men as well. King's Man Sorry, and apparently he was

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<v Speaker 2>in Tenant, but I have pretty much no memory of

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00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.519
<v Speaker 2>that movie, which I'm really glad for because that was

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<v Speaker 2>so awful.

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<v Speaker 6>Can I mention one weird thing in this movie? The

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<v Speaker 6>movie starts with a prison break sequence, and like in

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<v Speaker 6>a Gulac, but.

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<v Speaker 2>I kept waiting for what's his name from the Crimson Commando.

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<v Speaker 2>I kept thinking of the prison break scene in Black Widow.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just like, oh.

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<v Speaker 6>Right, But while the production logos are going and what

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<v Speaker 6>is effectively the credit sequence the theme music from The

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<v Speaker 6>Hunt for Red October.

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<v Speaker 2>Is plus Yes, thank you. Andrew was like what is

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<v Speaker 2>that music? And I was like, and sleep shall bring

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<v Speaker 2>new holes.

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<v Speaker 6>I was an usher at a movie theater playing The

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<v Speaker 6>Hunt for Red ac I know that music. Intimately, that's

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<v Speaker 6>a wonderful.

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<v Speaker 2>Wonder in the end of the movie. Yeah, oh yeah,

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00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:05.279
<v Speaker 2>it's so good. And yeah when that music comes up. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a great movie to clean the theater too.

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<v Speaker 6>Absolutely, it was so this movie starts and I'm like what, No,

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<v Speaker 6>and yet I get it. It's like a it's a

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<v Speaker 6>Columbia or Sony property, so they can get away with it.

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<v Speaker 6>But could just use the Russian national anth just use

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<v Speaker 6>any dunt. That was weird. It was a weird way

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<v Speaker 6>to start.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I had

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<v Speaker 2>totally forgotten about it. But yes, as soon as that

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<v Speaker 2>music started, I was like, I know this, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I anders what is this? This is familiar to me? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that was wild.

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<v Speaker 3>And yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I just kept thinking of all the prison break movies,

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<v Speaker 2>but especially thinking of Black Widow breaking her father out

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<v Speaker 2>of prison. I was just like, is he in that

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00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.160
<v Speaker 2>same jail or because there was also a prison break

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<v Speaker 2>in one of the Mission Impossibles that I think was

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<v Speaker 2>also in a Russian prison, and I was like, all right,

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00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.519
<v Speaker 2>waiting for okay, open this door, open up this door.

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<v Speaker 2>But instead, as soon as he starts like crawling around

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<v Speaker 2>on the walls, I was like, Oh, okay, this guy.

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00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:12.799
<v Speaker 2>It's not just strength, it's also this crawling and jumping ability.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. I guess that stuff that Calypso gives him

385
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<v Speaker 2>as almost like super soldier serum.

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<v Speaker 4>So clearly defined where his superpower is in this movie, right.

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00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:26.440
<v Speaker 6>I think they seem pretty defined. Actually, he doesn't necessarily

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<v Speaker 6>commune with animals, but he has their powers and can

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00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:33.880
<v Speaker 6>catch their drift. He's also super strength and super agility.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very bastmaster. I kept waiting for There's one part

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<v Speaker 2>where the hawk is tapping on the glass window and

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<v Speaker 2>I was just like, Oh, he's going to see through

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<v Speaker 2>the hawk's eyes, but no, he doesn't.

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<v Speaker 6>In the comic, that serum that Calypso gives him is

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<v Speaker 6>basically like a super soldier serum like the Wakandan herb,

396
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.839
<v Speaker 6>but here they use it like resurrection juice. Yeah, and

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00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.240
<v Speaker 6>it has a side effect of the strength and the

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00:20:59.240 --> 00:20:59.960
<v Speaker 6>connection to name.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I found it interesting the way that they did

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00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.039
<v Speaker 2>the opening and then going back in time and showing

401
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.200
<v Speaker 2>his original story and speaking of Russell Crowe, there are

402
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.240
<v Speaker 2>a couple of times, like when the lion attacks him

403
00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:16.799
<v Speaker 2>and is carrying him across the savannah, there's a shot

404
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:20.160
<v Speaker 2>where his hand is hanging and it's like brushing all

405
00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.039
<v Speaker 2>of this, all this fauna, and I just kept thinking

406
00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.160
<v Speaker 2>of that shot of Russell Crowe when he's touching the

407
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:28.119
<v Speaker 2>heads of the stalks of wheat, and I was like,

408
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:30.799
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if they're doing this as a little homage

409
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<v Speaker 2>to Russell Crowe. I had, Yeah, a little gladiator.

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00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.480
<v Speaker 6>Violence in this movie. There's a particular sequence where he's

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<v Speaker 6>taking out all of Rhino's men in the forest, which

412
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:46.680
<v Speaker 6>is incredibly bloody and fantastic. Honestly, it's a very rambo

413
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.440
<v Speaker 6>section of this movie. And not to hammer this, but

414
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<v Speaker 6>we're gonna have him acting this way, but we're not

415
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.279
<v Speaker 6>going to make him a villa, make him just can't

416
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.519
<v Speaker 6>you just give him like a diet danger diabolic kind

417
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:02.319
<v Speaker 6>of thing where he just gets off breaking the rules, Like,

418
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:05.799
<v Speaker 6>just make him wanted for something other than doing something noble,

419
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<v Speaker 6>because when we start this movie, he's got a list

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<v Speaker 6>like he's Green Arrow or something like taking out like

421
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.559
<v Speaker 6>all these criminals. Basically, what they've done is turn Craven

422
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.440
<v Speaker 6>the Hunter into Craven the Punisher.

423
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:20.559
<v Speaker 4>Here's dexter adjacent. He only kills bad people.

424
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:21.000
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

425
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.359
<v Speaker 2>I was actually thinking of the Punisher because I didn't

426
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:27.920
<v Speaker 2>dive into this area of the mythos. But when the

427
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:31.039
<v Speaker 2>foreigners like, oh, he killed my mentor and he holds

428
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.039
<v Speaker 2>up a copy just happens to have a copy of

429
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:36.599
<v Speaker 2>The Daily Bugle with him and it's what Hunter kills

430
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.039
<v Speaker 2>Hitman or something, and I was like, who is that?

431
00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Is that the Punisher? Who could that be? So I

432
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.039
<v Speaker 2>didn't go back into the Wikipedia to find that one out.

433
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.240
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that one's lost on me too. But oh, thank

434
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.279
<v Speaker 6>god we got the Daily Bugle and every one of

435
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:55.640
<v Speaker 6>these God, oh don't forget this is a Spider Man movie, folks.

436
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:58.039
<v Speaker 4>At least they didn't have baby spider Man.

437
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:02.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this one felt them most in universe with those

438
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.359
<v Speaker 2>Andrew Garfields to me as far as oh there could

439
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.519
<v Speaker 2>be a Spider Man in this universe.

440
00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.319
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, this one felt the most realized of any of them.

441
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.319
<v Speaker 6>It seemed to know where it stood in relation to

442
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.599
<v Speaker 6>the other movies and what it had to give, whereas

443
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.160
<v Speaker 6>Venom it seemed and I think that from what I read,

444
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.839
<v Speaker 6>the producers were always like, this is standalone stuff. Yes,

445
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.559
<v Speaker 6>it shows the universe, but not really. I don't think

446
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.680
<v Speaker 6>they were ever looking to build anything on anything with

447
00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:31.559
<v Speaker 6>those other movies. They were hoping with Morbius, but Jesus

448
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:35.000
<v Speaker 6>Christ would a fiasco, and then Madam Weaponist.

449
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:40.200
<v Speaker 4>Spider Noir the TV show. Sorry, Nicholas Cage, I'm looking

450
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:43.880
<v Speaker 4>forward to it, but it's part of this. That's technically

451
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:46.359
<v Speaker 4>the last entry in all of this, because that's coming

452
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.000
<v Speaker 4>out I think next year.

453
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:50.559
<v Speaker 6>I believe that's part of Into the Spider Verse.

454
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:53.640
<v Speaker 4>Right, Well, technically so is this isn't it?

455
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:54.279
<v Speaker 1>No?

456
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.880
<v Speaker 6>But into the Spider Verse sort of stands outside of

457
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.880
<v Speaker 6>everything because all of the different franchises can be found

458
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:01.759
<v Speaker 6>than there. So that's its own deal.

459
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.759
<v Speaker 4>I don't fucking know anymore. How's that given the MCU

460
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:09.279
<v Speaker 4>of it all, they wanted all, they wanted all to

461
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:10.839
<v Speaker 4>be part of everything all the time.

462
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.119
<v Speaker 6>They wanted their own universe where they kept all the profits,

463
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:17.480
<v Speaker 6>and they wanted Marvel to do all the work for them.

464
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.079
<v Speaker 6>I mean that was the deal, right. Initially they put

465
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.759
<v Speaker 6>up all the financing and Marvel got five percent of

466
00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:27.000
<v Speaker 6>the gross and kept the merchandising. And then in twenty

467
00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:30.640
<v Speaker 6>nineteen when they had to renegotiate, Marvel wanted fifty percent

468
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.839
<v Speaker 6>of the gross. And that's when Sony was like, fuck you,

469
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:36.880
<v Speaker 6>we'll make our own Spider Man movies now, and Tom

470
00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:39.680
<v Speaker 6>Holland brought them back to the table. And then now

471
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.559
<v Speaker 6>what happens is Marvel pays for twenty five percent of

472
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.039
<v Speaker 6>the production budget and takes twenty five percent of the

473
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:47.839
<v Speaker 6>profit and has kept the merchandising rights.

474
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:48.920
<v Speaker 4>It's pretty smart.

475
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:51.519
<v Speaker 2>Remember when they made a Cloak and Dagger? What was

476
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that a TV show?

477
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:53.799
<v Speaker 4>And Humans TV show?

478
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:55.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I sure remember that one.

479
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:58.200
<v Speaker 4>And then they literally referenced it in fucking Doctor Strange

480
00:24:58.200 --> 00:24:59.039
<v Speaker 4>of all things.

481
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.279
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, remember that New Mutants movie.

482
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:06.440
<v Speaker 4>Really mine, this is in that same vein, right, It's

483
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.519
<v Speaker 4>just like it's a weird anomaly that stands out as

484
00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:11.960
<v Speaker 4>its own thing when we're like the look, I have

485
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:14.799
<v Speaker 4>my issues with the MCU, but for fuck's sake, this

486
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:19.720
<v Speaker 4>makes the problems that the MCU is having look minor comparatively.

487
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:20.960
<v Speaker 6>I agree with you, Mike. I'll go one further. I

488
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.200
<v Speaker 6>think this one actually could have fallen. If you were

489
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.200
<v Speaker 6>to tell me this was part of the MCU, I

490
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.079
<v Speaker 6>would buy it and was wondering how they were going

491
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:31.759
<v Speaker 6>to tie it in. We've all got superhero fatigue these days,

492
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.400
<v Speaker 6>and the problem with it, the reason we have it.

493
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.039
<v Speaker 6>We're all fucking pointing our fingers at Marvel. It's really

494
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 6>because of fucking Sony releasing poor effort after poor effort,

495
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:45.279
<v Speaker 6>along with DC not knowing what the fuck they're doing

496
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.200
<v Speaker 6>over there. And on top of that, we had twentieth

497
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.200
<v Speaker 6>Century Fox fucking shit up at least until what twenty

498
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.240
<v Speaker 6>twelve or so. Oh god, yeah, yeah, obviously we're gonna

499
00:25:55.240 --> 00:25:57.079
<v Speaker 6>burn out. They just keep giving us bullshit.

500
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:00.440
<v Speaker 2>No, you're one hundred percent right, because they were so

501
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.000
<v Speaker 2>many clunkers amongst all of those in the last twelve

502
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:09.960
<v Speaker 2>fifteen years, it's been really fucking rough. Maybe the Suicide

503
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Squad is the one that I appreciate from that, and

504
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.400
<v Speaker 2>that's probably because of fucking James Gunn where it just

505
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.000
<v Speaker 2>becomes a Guardians of the Galaxy on Earth type of thing,

506
00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.960
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it's I don't know, I could see this

507
00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:26.920
<v Speaker 2>fitting into the regular MCU because I was of the

508
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.559
<v Speaker 2>opinion that this kind of fits with their style a

509
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:34.359
<v Speaker 2>lot more. And I could see now this Craven, I

510
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.839
<v Speaker 2>would actually see him teaming up with Tom Holland rather

511
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:40.720
<v Speaker 2>than going against him. But yeah, I agree that this

512
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:45.240
<v Speaker 2>is more of a quality than Sony has given us

513
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:47.480
<v Speaker 2>in a long damn time when it comes to these,

514
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.720
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, way better than some of those fucking X

515
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:51.039
<v Speaker 2>Men movies that they're doing.

516
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:51.519
<v Speaker 6>For a while.

517
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:54.440
<v Speaker 2>They're x Men two one of the best, but x

518
00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Men three one of the worst. They just vacillated like crazy.

519
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:00.640
<v Speaker 2>It was like being throttled whenever you went to see

520
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:02.119
<v Speaker 2>one of those X Men films.

521
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:05.839
<v Speaker 4>I could see this being a Netflix thing. That's what

522
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.839
<v Speaker 4>I can see this being. To mention, like Father Malone,

523
00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:11.599
<v Speaker 4>you already mentioned The Punisher, that was a Netflix thing

524
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.359
<v Speaker 4>technically part of the MCU. It was it's its own thing,

525
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.079
<v Speaker 4>but it's part of the MCU. There's a lot of

526
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:22.000
<v Speaker 4>violence in Gore in that. I do not disagree with

527
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.400
<v Speaker 4>you all. In terms of this version of Craven working

528
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:28.400
<v Speaker 4>in the MCU. I think he would work just fine,

529
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.799
<v Speaker 4>given that they have to figure out a way to

530
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:33.319
<v Speaker 4>make Deadpool work at this point, and I don't think

531
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.000
<v Speaker 4>that this character is any more or less hard to

532
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:38.880
<v Speaker 4>handle or get a wrangle on than Deadpool would be

533
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:40.880
<v Speaker 4>to put in the MCU. I don't think he's gonna

534
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.319
<v Speaker 4>be in the MCU, but I don't think that they're

535
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:45.519
<v Speaker 4>gonna do anything with Craven in the MCU. Anyways.

536
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:49.960
<v Speaker 2>It's going to be real awkward when the Scarlet Witch

537
00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:55.079
<v Speaker 2>sees Craven and as, you look just like my dead brother, right,

538
00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:58.920
<v Speaker 2>And it's going to be real awkward if we ever

539
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:03.279
<v Speaker 2>see Paul Gmio in that mechanical suit, because Craven's going

540
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:05.839
<v Speaker 2>to be like, didn't I fight you already? Weren't you

541
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:09.279
<v Speaker 2>a mutant before or some sort of genetic hybrid.

542
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.240
<v Speaker 6>And on his way to the afterlife, Nikolai cravenof might

543
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:14.640
<v Speaker 6>run into Zeus.

544
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.279
<v Speaker 2>Exactly and be like, you look just like Craven's dad.

545
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.000
<v Speaker 6>The stars were so many they seemed to overlap.

546
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:27.400
<v Speaker 4>I guess my question to y'all is given that this

547
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 4>is the end of the Sony Spider Verse as it

548
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.359
<v Speaker 4>were in terms of theatrical releases, and you've already touched

549
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:36.400
<v Speaker 4>on it a little bit. Mike. This in the top third,

550
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:39.519
<v Speaker 4>and if it is in the top third, is that

551
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.279
<v Speaker 4>just because everything else is so bad as well? This

552
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:45.319
<v Speaker 4>movie didn't have very far to go, it'd be better

553
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 4>than everything else, Madam Webb. Is an affront to most

554
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:52.319
<v Speaker 4>cinematic good taste. The Venom movies. You're gonna your mile

555
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.799
<v Speaker 4>edge will vary. I would go as far as to say,

556
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:56.759
<v Speaker 4>I think I enjoyed all of the Vena movies more

557
00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.759
<v Speaker 4>than I enjoyed this movie. But for me, is this

558
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:03.079
<v Speaker 4>good on its own? Or is it just good because

559
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:05.119
<v Speaker 4>everything else that we've seen up to this point has

560
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:07.759
<v Speaker 4>been so mediocre to outright bad.

561
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:09.759
<v Speaker 6>I liked it on its own?

562
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, I think I'm there. I think I'm there

563
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.559
<v Speaker 2>with you. Like I said, I can really see myself

564
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:19.319
<v Speaker 2>watching this again. I can see this going onto my

565
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.519
<v Speaker 2>wife's plex playlist that she just repeats constantly and being like, Okay,

566
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm alright with this a lot more than things like

567
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:30.839
<v Speaker 2>you already mentioned Aaron Taylor Johnson and Godzilla that one

568
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:34.519
<v Speaker 2>ooh man, oh man. That was That's a rough one.

569
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

570
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.599
<v Speaker 4>I just he for me is an actor that I'm

571
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:43.039
<v Speaker 4>just not super into in what he does. It just

572
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:46.119
<v Speaker 4>kind of always falls flat. And when they when they

573
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:48.319
<v Speaker 4>announced that he was going to be Craven, I was like, okay,

574
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.759
<v Speaker 4>like all right, Like he's already played a character in

575
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.519
<v Speaker 4>the MCU. We couldn't have found somebody else to play Craven,

576
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:58.839
<v Speaker 4>And clearly the MCU has no interest in doing anything

577
00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:02.759
<v Speaker 4>with Craven. So that's probably for me, the biggest shame

578
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 4>is that we may never get Craven in the actual

579
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:10.720
<v Speaker 4>MCU the way he should because to both of y'all's points,

580
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:13.680
<v Speaker 4>he's a huge part of the Spider Man mythos. He's

581
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:15.799
<v Speaker 4>constantly hunting Spider Man.

582
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.599
<v Speaker 6>And his brother the Chameleon, was the first villain in

583
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:20.079
<v Speaker 6>Spider Man one.

584
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.319
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So for me, it's just it's almost like they

585
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:25.039
<v Speaker 4>let the cat out of the bag, like they should

586
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 4>have let the MCU do Craven, just like they probably

587
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:29.680
<v Speaker 4>should have let the MCU do Venom.

588
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:32.519
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, but they're going to eventually, that's the thing. Eventually

589
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:35.559
<v Speaker 6>we'll just somehow get all the right back and then

590
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:39.599
<v Speaker 6>we'll get the other versions, including I'm now looking forward

591
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.680
<v Speaker 6>to the MCU's version of Craven because we're going to

592
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:46.200
<v Speaker 6>get the fucking psychopath Hunter who is all braggadoccio and

593
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:49.680
<v Speaker 6>will hunt anything as just to prove that he can

594
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.759
<v Speaker 6>fucking do it, including villains, including heroes, including women, children

595
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:54.799
<v Speaker 6>who cares.

596
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the thing is I picture Craven as a

597
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:03.200
<v Speaker 2>much more blood thirsty, crazy guy, and this one I'm like,

598
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.519
<v Speaker 2>oh no, he seems like a preing, nice dude. And

599
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:08.240
<v Speaker 2>especially the way he's protecting the animals and stuff, I

600
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.319
<v Speaker 2>was like, Oh yeah, if this guy is just all

601
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:12.920
<v Speaker 2>about taking down poachers, let's do it.

602
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:16.920
<v Speaker 6>I'm here for it, and let's stop across the board.

603
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.039
<v Speaker 6>Do not tease a comic accurate outfit that you're going

604
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:25.319
<v Speaker 6>to show us for two seconds. Stop doing, because that's

605
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:27.920
<v Speaker 6>how what the entire time I kept thinking, like, when

606
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:29.680
<v Speaker 6>they announced that he was coming, I'm like, they're gonna

607
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:31.599
<v Speaker 6>do a Craven movie. Are they going to put him

608
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.920
<v Speaker 6>in that fucking vest? Because that could be weird? And

609
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:36.759
<v Speaker 6>then at the end of this movie, I'm like, yeah,

610
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 6>I like it. Go I want to see him running

611
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:39.440
<v Speaker 6>around in that shit.

612
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:43.640
<v Speaker 4>And they did the same thing that Fox did with Wolverine.

613
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.559
<v Speaker 4>They were like, oh, it would look dumb. It's like

614
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.000
<v Speaker 4>what a No, people popped like crazy and dead pull

615
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:53.640
<v Speaker 4>Wolverine for when Wolverine put his like mask, the yellow suit. Yeah,

616
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.400
<v Speaker 4>people went ape shit for that. Hey, I'm sorry, but

617
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 4>if you're going to have him on your poster wearing it,

618
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:00.640
<v Speaker 4>you can't just show it in the last thirty seconds

619
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:03.480
<v Speaker 4>of the movie. That's pretty lame. Like all the advertising

620
00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:07.319
<v Speaker 4>has him in that in the iconic lion vest and

621
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:09.640
<v Speaker 4>it's oh, we're just gonna show him sitting in his

622
00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.759
<v Speaker 4>throne at the end of the movie. Okay, that felt

623
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.400
<v Speaker 4>so unearned, and the movie was like, see he's craven.

624
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:15.599
<v Speaker 5>Now.

625
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:17.480
<v Speaker 4>No, I don't think so.

626
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:19.759
<v Speaker 6>I think it was totally earned. I'm just mad that

627
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:22.599
<v Speaker 6>they keep doing that in all the bullshit movies, and

628
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.759
<v Speaker 6>then when they finally get one right, I'm like, oh, no,

629
00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:27.720
<v Speaker 6>I don't ever get to see him do that. I

630
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.200
<v Speaker 6>don't ever see him running around and throwing a spear

631
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.200
<v Speaker 6>in the middle of New York City with the fucking

632
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.240
<v Speaker 6>lion vest on. Mm hmm, come on, now.

633
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:36.880
<v Speaker 4>That's the thing.

634
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:37.200
<v Speaker 3>For me.

635
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.279
<v Speaker 4>I would have preferred it to be more accurate to

636
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:42.359
<v Speaker 4>the comic book. But again, then you, I guess you

637
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:46.000
<v Speaker 4>run into the issue up it looking and seeming silly.

638
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:48.400
<v Speaker 6>The thing that all the fans were clamoring for that.

639
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:51.640
<v Speaker 6>Craven's most famous book occurred in the middle of the

640
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:55.440
<v Speaker 6>nineteen eighties, and that's Craven's Last Hunt, where he has

641
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.279
<v Speaker 6>determined that he will go all out to kill Spider

642
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:01.440
<v Speaker 6>Man and he believes he does it. He buries Spider

643
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:06.359
<v Speaker 6>Man in this concrete coffin, and then having completed his task,

644
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:09.279
<v Speaker 6>he goes and kills himself, and then that's the end

645
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:12.480
<v Speaker 6>of Craven as a character. I don't know why fans

646
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.799
<v Speaker 6>were hoping that would be this ad amtmation. It seems

647
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:18.799
<v Speaker 6>a little self defeating. I want to see that story.

648
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:21.319
<v Speaker 6>And if they had known that this was going to

649
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:23.559
<v Speaker 6>be the last, then I would have suggested that they

650
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.039
<v Speaker 6>go for it, but clearly they thought they were going

651
00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:28.519
<v Speaker 6>to continue. Nevertheless, that does leave the door open for

652
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.319
<v Speaker 6>the Marvel Universe to do that story. They could do

653
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 6>Craven as a one off and have him be a

654
00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:36.200
<v Speaker 6>villain who ends up killing himself. I'd be totally satisfied

655
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:36.480
<v Speaker 6>with that.

656
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:39.920
<v Speaker 2>He killed Spider Man. You mean Spider Man's dead?

657
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:42.720
<v Speaker 6>He is many years now?

658
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow? Is his clone still alive?

659
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:46.079
<v Speaker 5>No?

660
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.759
<v Speaker 6>But we got Miles, Yes, we need to have Miles Morales.

661
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Thank goodness.

662
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:53.359
<v Speaker 4>With a movie like this and so many of these

663
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:58.640
<v Speaker 4>other non MCU but Marvel things, they are fighting an

664
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:03.359
<v Speaker 4>uphill battle because the MCU, for the longest time, set

665
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.319
<v Speaker 4>the bar very high and was essentially like the high

666
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:09.480
<v Speaker 4>water mark of these kinds of things. Now that the

667
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.159
<v Speaker 4>MCU has faltered a little bit and it's going back

668
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.360
<v Speaker 4>on the way that they've done things, I look at

669
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:20.519
<v Speaker 4>something like this and think to myself, Okay, so you

670
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:25.440
<v Speaker 4>did this. You just made this movie, underperformed, You're not

671
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:28.639
<v Speaker 4>doing anything else with it, Like, why did we do

672
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:31.599
<v Speaker 4>this in the first place. It's just for the continuation

673
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:33.960
<v Speaker 4>of the rights. It's just to hold down the right,

674
00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:37.199
<v Speaker 4>I'm assuming is what it seems like, because again, nobody

675
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 4>was clamoring for a Craven movie, just like nobody was

676
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.440
<v Speaker 4>clamoring for a aunt May movie that they had talked

677
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:45.840
<v Speaker 4>about making for the longest time. Remember that was one

678
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:47.199
<v Speaker 4>of the things that they were like, we're gonna make

679
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:52.159
<v Speaker 4>a movie about aunt May. And it's like why did Yeah,

680
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:54.800
<v Speaker 4>they sure said that's gonna happen. It's who wanted that?

681
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:57.880
<v Speaker 4>And look to your point, father Malone, I would say,

682
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:03.039
<v Speaker 4>in terms of villains, Batman has the best villains in DC,

683
00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:06.039
<v Speaker 4>and I think Spider Man has the best villains in Marvel.

684
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:07.760
<v Speaker 6>Is that right?

685
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:10.480
<v Speaker 4>Do you think I think he's If he doesn't have

686
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:11.960
<v Speaker 4>the best, he's up near the top.

687
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:14.679
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I think he might be right. Spider Man does

688
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:16.880
<v Speaker 6>have the most outrageous Rose Gallery.

689
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:24.480
<v Speaker 4>Electro, Venom, Carnage, Scorpion, Craven, Unasure, technically.

690
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.400
<v Speaker 6>Octopus Octopus behind I.

691
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:32.719
<v Speaker 4>Mean the Green Goblin alone. The Fantastic Four has Doctor

692
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:35.840
<v Speaker 4>Doom and they have their people, and Wolverine and the

693
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:38.119
<v Speaker 4>X Men have Magneto and their people. But I think,

694
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:40.079
<v Speaker 4>for me, when I think of Spider Man, I think

695
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:43.639
<v Speaker 4>of Spider Man's like the Sinister Six, like his rogues

696
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:48.480
<v Speaker 4>gallery of villains reminds me of the best of Batman's villains,

697
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:52.199
<v Speaker 4>and like to both of y'all's points, like, I don't

698
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.280
<v Speaker 4>think doing a Sinister Six thing was a bad idea.

699
00:35:56.119 --> 00:35:58.079
<v Speaker 4>I think they probably should have just done that, though,

700
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:02.400
<v Speaker 4>as opposed to trying to make this Sideways universe its

701
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:04.719
<v Speaker 4>own thing and then we'll make a Sinister Six movie,

702
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:06.760
<v Speaker 4>which is what I was assuming the plan was here

703
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.320
<v Speaker 4>in all this was to make a movie that had

704
00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:14.880
<v Speaker 4>Madame Web and Venom and carnage and more bious and

705
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.320
<v Speaker 4>craven and all them together in a movie. That's what

706
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.400
<v Speaker 4>I'm assuming that this was eventually building towards. We are

707
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:23.280
<v Speaker 4>not getting that now, so we will never know what

708
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:27.239
<v Speaker 4>they were going for. But it for me is just again,

709
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:30.159
<v Speaker 4>it almost feels like it failed in spite of the

710
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.039
<v Speaker 4>fact that it was trying to do something different from

711
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:35.000
<v Speaker 4>the MCU. But because the MCU has set the watermarks

712
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:39.840
<v Speaker 4>so high, we all expect quality, and when it's this

713
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:43.480
<v Speaker 4>differential of quality between the two, you can't help us

714
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.800
<v Speaker 4>just look at this and go like, why did we

715
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:48.079
<v Speaker 4>even make this? Why are we not just letting the

716
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:48.920
<v Speaker 4>MCU do this.

717
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:52.519
<v Speaker 6>What's crazy is that they all tried to ape the MCU,

718
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:55.800
<v Speaker 6>or to go so far in the other direction that

719
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:59.880
<v Speaker 6>it became unintelligible. They had a chance here, because they

720
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:03.519
<v Speaker 6>were locked into only doing villains to tell an entirely

721
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.960
<v Speaker 6>different kind of comic book story on screen that we

722
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:11.360
<v Speaker 6>could have gotten behind villainous behavior, or they could have

723
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.760
<v Speaker 6>made horror movies or thrillers with these. They could have

724
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.800
<v Speaker 6>gone in any direction they wanted as far afield from

725
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:20.519
<v Speaker 6>what Marvel was doing as possible and just make good

726
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:24.639
<v Speaker 6>movies of those, and it would have invigorated the genre. Instead,

727
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:27.719
<v Speaker 6>we just got carbon copies of carbon copies.

728
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, remember the way that they shoehorned Vulture into the

729
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:36.119
<v Speaker 2>end of Morbius in that scene. It also is very

730
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.480
<v Speaker 2>telling with this movie because I used that run p

731
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:41.599
<v Speaker 2>app to see if there's extra scenes no extra scenes

732
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:43.480
<v Speaker 2>in this movie, and I was like, Oh, did they

733
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:46.400
<v Speaker 2>know that this was the end? I don't think they did,

734
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.599
<v Speaker 2>but it felt very odd that they weren't going to

735
00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:52.400
<v Speaker 2>use those mid and post credits as any sort of

736
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:56.639
<v Speaker 2>setup for play. Don Yes, the green goblin that looked

737
00:37:56.679 --> 00:37:58.480
<v Speaker 2>like you had an unfortunate disease.

738
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:03.199
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that's what we want from that character, right, give

739
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:05.840
<v Speaker 6>us a goblin face or give us a helmet, don't

740
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.360
<v Speaker 6>try and fuck around in between.

741
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm just looking at all the members of the Sinister

742
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.039
<v Speaker 2>Six and all of the different incarnations. It's pretty remarkable.

743
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.159
<v Speaker 2>But you're right, Chris, there are a lot of great

744
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:21.239
<v Speaker 2>villains for Spider Man to go against. Just looking at

745
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:26.360
<v Speaker 2>the later recruits with like Beetle and Shocker and Grim

746
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:31.159
<v Speaker 2>Reaper and Lizard and Living Brain. There's a ton of

747
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:33.960
<v Speaker 2>great people that he could go against at any time.

748
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.679
<v Speaker 2>Evidently Craven was going to be the backup villain for

749
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:42.559
<v Speaker 2>Mysterio and Spider Man Far from Home, but they were

750
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.960
<v Speaker 2>denied the right to use the character. Ultimately, they tried

751
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:47.800
<v Speaker 2>to use him again some other time and were told

752
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:50.679
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't use him. It still doesn't make any sense

753
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:54.599
<v Speaker 2>that they used Electro in that last Spider Man movie,

754
00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:57.639
<v Speaker 2>because he doesn't know who Peter Parker is, or doesn't

755
00:38:57.639 --> 00:38:59.840
<v Speaker 2>know that Spider Man is Peter Parker, at least according

756
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:01.559
<v Speaker 2>to their own fucking movie.

757
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:04.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, there was a lot of problems with the timelines

758
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.480
<v Speaker 6>in that movie and the melding of the different world.

759
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:10.119
<v Speaker 6>I think they did a pretty good job considering all

760
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:12.280
<v Speaker 6>of the different balls they had to get into the air.

761
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:14.880
<v Speaker 6>But yeah, a lot to be desired. Maybe work on

762
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:19.320
<v Speaker 6>that script another six months, right, another two three passes,

763
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:22.440
<v Speaker 6>which seems to be a common refrain when we talk

764
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:26.440
<v Speaker 6>about these newer films, especially things like Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice or

765
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:29.039
<v Speaker 6>some of the other ones that we've said, you waited

766
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.239
<v Speaker 6>this long, Why didn't you wait just a little bit

767
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:34.719
<v Speaker 6>longer and make it better. Yeah, they've waited twenty thirty

768
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:36.800
<v Speaker 6>years in some cases, and they're like, okay, and now

769
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:39.400
<v Speaker 6>here's the release date, go make the movie. Like yeah,

770
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:42.920
<v Speaker 6>why is the money dependent on that date? What kind

771
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.039
<v Speaker 6>of outdated system is that the problem?

772
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:45.280
<v Speaker 5>Now?

773
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.000
<v Speaker 6>The system is just now fully broken where we can

774
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:50.679
<v Speaker 6>see all of the flaws, and it gives me a

775
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:53.639
<v Speaker 6>bit of heart that I feel a bit heartened in

776
00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:56.719
<v Speaker 6>that James Gunn has been hammering over and over again,

777
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:58.920
<v Speaker 6>we're not starting the movie until the script is ready.

778
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.360
<v Speaker 6>That's great, Please do that, but make sure the script

779
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:03.360
<v Speaker 6>is actually good.

780
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:07.119
<v Speaker 4>I will say, though, now that this is over, now

781
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:11.840
<v Speaker 4>that this Spider Versus done, where do they go from here?

782
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:15.599
<v Speaker 4>Do they just does Sony just give the rights back

783
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:19.239
<v Speaker 4>to Marvel and say, here you go, Mia Kolpa, we

784
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:21.840
<v Speaker 4>fucked around and found out long enough. Maybe you guys

785
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.360
<v Speaker 4>can have the rights back and we'll just sell it

786
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.000
<v Speaker 4>to you for large sums of money, like they should

787
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 4>have just done long ago, as opposed to effectively getting

788
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.559
<v Speaker 4>egg on their face with six movies. That's the thing

789
00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:35.199
<v Speaker 4>I don't understand here. As much as I appreciate that

790
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.679
<v Speaker 4>y'all enjoyed this movie broadly, this movie is getting poorly

791
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:42.440
<v Speaker 4>reviewed broadly. This movie is making no money broadly, this

792
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:46.079
<v Speaker 4>movie is a failure in terms of box office, in

793
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:48.880
<v Speaker 4>terms of the financial side of it. Just speaking financially,

794
00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:52.159
<v Speaker 4>none of these movies have been successful other than the

795
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:56.039
<v Speaker 4>Venom movie. That's what I don't understand here. The sunk

796
00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:59.519
<v Speaker 4>cost fallacy is a thing. Stop putting more money into

797
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:05.480
<v Speaker 4>the fucking at some point. It's weird to me. Venom

798
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 4>is a movie that I understand why it got two sequels.

799
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:13.039
<v Speaker 4>It got two sequels because it made money. I don't

800
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:15.679
<v Speaker 4>understand why they made Madame Web and Morbius and this

801
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:21.159
<v Speaker 4>movie because they ultimately serve no purpose. Morbius goes nowhere

802
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:25.599
<v Speaker 4>and frankly all it does is convolute the multiverse more.

803
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.360
<v Speaker 4>And Madame Web again, I'm not sure what the point

804
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.079
<v Speaker 4>of that movie was other than to pay for a

805
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:35.239
<v Speaker 4>home in Malibu for Dakota Johnson. I'm assuming as if

806
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.920
<v Speaker 4>she needs the money, given that her parents are both

807
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.960
<v Speaker 4>insanely wealthy and also actors of note in their own right.

808
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:45.800
<v Speaker 4>I just don't understand what they were trying to accomplish

809
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.800
<v Speaker 4>here without Spider Man. I think, to y'all's point, maybe

810
00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:51.039
<v Speaker 4>it was a maybe we'll get Spider Man at some

811
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.440
<v Speaker 4>point and Marvel will play ball with us, and we'll

812
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:56.599
<v Speaker 4>get the opportunity to use Spider Man in our movies

813
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:58.480
<v Speaker 4>at some point. But yeah, you had to make good

814
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:01.079
<v Speaker 4>movies for Marvel to give you the opportunity to have

815
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:05.679
<v Speaker 4>Spider Man, and they never did. And what's crazy to

816
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:09.559
<v Speaker 4>me is JC Chandor has made some pretty great movies.

817
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:12.280
<v Speaker 4>A Most Violent Year is quite good, Margin Cole is

818
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:16.039
<v Speaker 4>quite good. Those are quite good movies. This is for

819
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:20.360
<v Speaker 4>JC Chandor. This is a lesser movie in his filmography

820
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:23.280
<v Speaker 4>on top of everything else. But what's weird to me

821
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:25.880
<v Speaker 4>is I just don't understand why they kept making these

822
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:29.159
<v Speaker 4>movies when they saw that they weren't being successful. And

823
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:32.960
<v Speaker 4>to further point, if they saw they weren't being successful,

824
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:35.679
<v Speaker 4>why did they keep making them unless it was solely

825
00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:38.719
<v Speaker 4>and purely to just be like, we want to keep

826
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.559
<v Speaker 4>the rights to this, and so we will.

827
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:43.880
<v Speaker 2>You asked where Sony's going to go with this afterwards,

828
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.039
<v Speaker 2>and I think they're going to go back and hire

829
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Sam Raimi and have him do his fourth Spider Man

830
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:56.320
<v Speaker 2>film with Tommy maguire. I think that's a good opportunity. Otherwise, yeah,

831
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:58.400
<v Speaker 2>they might just hand it all back and be like, Okay,

832
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:02.159
<v Speaker 2>it's Tom Holland from sure out until he decides to

833
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:06.559
<v Speaker 2>retire from this role, which would be a really bad thing.

834
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:09.519
<v Speaker 2>I think Robert Downey Junior is having buyer's remorse with

835
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:11.679
<v Speaker 2>his like, oh, I'm not going to be Iron Man

836
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:15.320
<v Speaker 2>anymore coming back and doing Doom. But at the same time,

837
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:18.960
<v Speaker 2>they probably had an army of dump trucks to just

838
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:22.119
<v Speaker 2>back up and pour some money on him, because I

839
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:27.039
<v Speaker 2>think they know just losing Downey, losing for Evans like

840
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:30.400
<v Speaker 2>those were major blows. They really shouldn't have been. A

841
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:32.679
<v Speaker 2>smart studio would have been able to pick up and

842
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.440
<v Speaker 2>carry on from there, but I think the lack of

843
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.199
<v Speaker 2>those two characters had really sent them in a tailspin.

844
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.039
<v Speaker 4>They did too good of a job and making those

845
00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:43.920
<v Speaker 4>characters compelling, and they didn't do a good enough job

846
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.559
<v Speaker 4>and making other characters compelling. I know Father Malone's a

847
00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:50.079
<v Speaker 4>huge fan of Captain America. I am a massive fan

848
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:52.199
<v Speaker 4>of some of the other characters in the MCU, but

849
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:56.960
<v Speaker 4>I'm fans of the MCU interpretations. Not necessarily. The comic

850
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:00.679
<v Speaker 4>books and the movie interpretation of ant Man are vast different,

851
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:03.840
<v Speaker 4>but Iron Man and Captain America very similar to the

852
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.840
<v Speaker 4>comic books very much what you would expect if you

853
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:09.079
<v Speaker 4>read the comic books, at least of a certain time

854
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:11.920
<v Speaker 4>in a place. And I think that there's some of

855
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:16.599
<v Speaker 4>the consistency that the MCU had was tied to the

856
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:20.360
<v Speaker 4>consistency of the actors involved. And I'm not saying that

857
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.159
<v Speaker 4>people are lesser or better than Chris Evans and Robert

858
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:26.199
<v Speaker 4>Downey Junior, but Chris Evans and Robert Downey Junior elevate

859
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:28.679
<v Speaker 4>the shit out of anything that they're in, almost just

860
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.119
<v Speaker 4>by the sheer fact of them being in it. Maybe

861
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:35.199
<v Speaker 4>not doo little, but not everything can be making you

862
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:37.519
<v Speaker 4>so much money you never have to work again, and

863
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:39.679
<v Speaker 4>are only working because you want to, not because you

864
00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:40.119
<v Speaker 4>have to.

865
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:43.360
<v Speaker 6>I think it's obvious they thought that they were going

866
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.800
<v Speaker 6>to be trading back and forth with Tom Holland, and

867
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:48.760
<v Speaker 6>that they were hitting these characters, and then after a

868
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:51.079
<v Speaker 6>while Tom Holland would be able to interact with their

869
00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:54.280
<v Speaker 6>villains the way he was interacting with the regular MCU villains.

870
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:56.280
<v Speaker 6>I think they just planned a whole bunch of movies

871
00:44:56.599 --> 00:44:59.639
<v Speaker 6>just willing nilly and put them into production without any

872
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:04.039
<v Speaker 6>sort of thought beyond that, figuring that when Tom Holland

873
00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:07.280
<v Speaker 6>was involved. The Marvel people would be involved in one

874
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:10.000
<v Speaker 6>way or another, and they their movies would be elevated.

875
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:12.280
<v Speaker 6>So I think that's why all of them are out there.

876
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:14.800
<v Speaker 6>I think going forward, I think you're right, Mike. I

877
00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.920
<v Speaker 6>think we're going to get either another Andrew Garfield or

878
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:20.320
<v Speaker 6>another Toby MacGuire movie. And I think the way that's

879
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:22.599
<v Speaker 6>going to happen is they're going to multiverse Tom Holland

880
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:25.599
<v Speaker 6>over to get us back into those movies, and that'll

881
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:28.440
<v Speaker 6>be like Marvel repaying their favor, if not an entire

882
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:32.599
<v Speaker 6>three or two, like a duo of Spider Man in

883
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:35.280
<v Speaker 6>a movie. I think that movie's on the way, and

884
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:38.800
<v Speaker 6>then I think we'll get like standalone either Peter Parker

885
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:39.679
<v Speaker 6>or Peter Parker.

886
00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:43.559
<v Speaker 2>The thing I like about the Spider Man movies and

887
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:48.719
<v Speaker 2>the Spider Man stories is that they're New York centric. Yes,

888
00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:52.920
<v Speaker 2>we've had Tom Holland going over seas and going to Washington, DC,

889
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:56.719
<v Speaker 2>like they're taking place outside of New York City. But

890
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:59.159
<v Speaker 2>I like that they're so New York centric and they're

891
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:03.400
<v Speaker 2>smaller stories that it doesn't have to be the world

892
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:06.719
<v Speaker 2>is going to be destroyed by a magical blue beam

893
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.960
<v Speaker 2>that shoots out of someplace or beams down from someplace

894
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:12.400
<v Speaker 2>save that stuff for the Avengers, and they do, and

895
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:14.599
<v Speaker 2>I think that's really smart. And I think that's one

896
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.079
<v Speaker 2>of the problems I've been having more with the DC

897
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:21.159
<v Speaker 2>movies is that everything seems to be the world could end.

898
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:25.079
<v Speaker 2>Like Batman's stories are smart, especially the Chris Nolan Batman,

899
00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:28.280
<v Speaker 2>where it's it's just taking place here in Gotham, it's

900
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.360
<v Speaker 2>not affecting the entire world. But then you get Superman

901
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:35.039
<v Speaker 2>and those are like, oh, I'm going to destroy all

902
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:38.360
<v Speaker 2>of Metropolis plus three quarters of the earth that feels

903
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.400
<v Speaker 2>like and he's spinning around, you know, And that's Superman.

904
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.199
<v Speaker 2>He's a god. He can do whatever he wants. But

905
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:45.639
<v Speaker 2>Spider Man's not a god. And I like that these

906
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:49.760
<v Speaker 2>are such smaller stories where it's like a person versus

907
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.559
<v Speaker 2>a villain or two. You get in trouble and it's three,

908
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:55.039
<v Speaker 2>but a person versus a villain or two that he

909
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.679
<v Speaker 2>can defeat, but it takes a whole lot for him

910
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:58.119
<v Speaker 2>to do that.

911
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:03.159
<v Speaker 6>Ultimately, Spider is a street level hero for Marvel, and

912
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.320
<v Speaker 6>that's what we like about him. That's why we like Punisher,

913
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:07.599
<v Speaker 6>that's why we like Daredevil. We like these guys on

914
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:12.199
<v Speaker 6>the street doing minor work that regular people can't but

915
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.840
<v Speaker 6>isn't necessarily the entire island of Manhattan is going to explode.

916
00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:19.920
<v Speaker 6>And I think that's what everyone needs to start focusing

917
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:23.800
<v Speaker 6>on with these superhero movies is lower the stakes, make

918
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:27.039
<v Speaker 6>the stakes more personal. Somehow. That always works for me,

919
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:30.119
<v Speaker 6>and particularly that works in Spider Man. That's what's always work.

920
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:33.239
<v Speaker 6>Those are emotional stories about a young man and the

921
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:36.920
<v Speaker 6>crazy world he lives in, in his interpersonal relationships and stuff. Weirdly,

922
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:39.719
<v Speaker 6>they carried that ethos here to the Craven movie.

923
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, even though he was globhopping quite a bit, like

924
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:47.880
<v Speaker 2>back and forth between Siberia and London, A ton By

925
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:49.159
<v Speaker 2>and Ghana.

926
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:54.280
<v Speaker 4>Yes, they just didn't want Craven to be a villain. No,

927
00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:57.039
<v Speaker 4>they wanted him because they don't have Spider Man.

928
00:47:57.360 --> 00:47:59.360
<v Speaker 6>Right, and I think by now they figured out we're

929
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.760
<v Speaker 6>not getting man. He's not going to be interacting with

930
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:05.239
<v Speaker 6>our villains. Let's try and spin this and make it good.

931
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:06.480
<v Speaker 6>But it was too little, too late.

932
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:09.159
<v Speaker 4>And not only is it too little too late, at

933
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:12.920
<v Speaker 4>the end of the day, they should have put something

934
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.079
<v Speaker 4>in place to secure the opportunity to have Spider Man

935
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:18.679
<v Speaker 4>long before they were like, well, just wait and see,

936
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:21.800
<v Speaker 4>and you fucked around and found out like big time.

937
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:24.599
<v Speaker 4>Because again, that's why I go back to they just

938
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.800
<v Speaker 4>kept making these movies and doubling and tripling and quadrupling

939
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:29.360
<v Speaker 4>down on them, and it's at what point are we

940
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:32.440
<v Speaker 4>just going to stop and stop making these goddamn movies?

941
00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:35.960
<v Speaker 4>Finally now apparently when again I think to y'all's point, like,

942
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.400
<v Speaker 4>for as much as I didn't like Craven, I will

943
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:41.159
<v Speaker 4>concede it's better than pretty much anything else I've seen

944
00:48:41.199 --> 00:48:45.000
<v Speaker 4>in the Sony versus, other than the Venom movies, which

945
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:46.639
<v Speaker 4>are their own thing, at least for me.

946
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:47.679
<v Speaker 6>Anyways.

947
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:51.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they just kept setting that plate going around like

948
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:54.239
<v Speaker 2>all right, everybody's got the rolls, everyone's got salad or

949
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:57.360
<v Speaker 2>coming to the main courses, coming up. Peter Parker was

950
00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:00.199
<v Speaker 2>supposed to bring it. Where's this Peter Parker guy? No

951
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:04.760
<v Speaker 2>turkey on Thanksgiving? Sorry, guys, the whole meal is now ruined.

952
00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:09.840
<v Speaker 6>And Peter Parker's usually good at those males. So oh yeah, yeah,

953
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:11.480
<v Speaker 6>it's definitely damming and.

954
00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:19.960
<v Speaker 2>And male slap the green Goblin's hand. Yeah, from my

955
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:22.519
<v Speaker 2>mouth to God's ear, I hope that's what.

956
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:24.519
<v Speaker 4>Honest to God, that's what I hope too. I hope

957
00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:26.719
<v Speaker 4>that they'd give him the opportunity to do a fourth

958
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:29.119
<v Speaker 4>movie the right way and just do it, like who

959
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:32.800
<v Speaker 4>cares at this point, Like people were clearly into Toby

960
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:36.000
<v Speaker 4>maguire coming back as Spider Man. It wasn't just us,

961
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:39.559
<v Speaker 4>like millennials and gen xers, like everybody was into it.

962
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:42.320
<v Speaker 4>So again, I don't know why Sony doesn't want to

963
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:44.440
<v Speaker 4>play ball with Marvel. Shut the fuck up, give him

964
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:46.280
<v Speaker 4>the fucking rights, and let's just be done with it.

965
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:49.039
<v Speaker 4>You guys suck at making Spider Man movies. You just

966
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:52.840
<v Speaker 4>do because you can't even make Spider Man movies. That's

967
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:54.719
<v Speaker 4>why they suck at making Spider Man movies, because they

968
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:58.119
<v Speaker 4>have yet to actually make a motherfucking Spider Man movie.

969
00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:01.519
<v Speaker 4>They've just been like gingly related and we'll mention Spider

970
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:05.679
<v Speaker 4>Man's name. Wow, that's fun. Does that embarrass you as

971
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.320
<v Speaker 4>much as I'm embarrassed for you, because I'm embarrassed for

972
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:11.480
<v Speaker 4>Sony when they're like, ah, spider Man, get it, and

973
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.960
<v Speaker 4>we know we've heard of Spider Man, like we're aware

974
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.719
<v Speaker 4>of Spider Man, very clearly aware of spider Man.

975
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:18.079
<v Speaker 1>Thank you?

976
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:21.679
<v Speaker 2>Are you aware of my boyfriend spider Man? He lives

977
00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:26.679
<v Speaker 2>in Canada, so bizarre to me. All right, let's wrap

978
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:29.800
<v Speaker 2>up this discussion of craving the Hunter by going around

979
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the room here father alone, Where can people hear more

980
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:33.800
<v Speaker 2>of you?

981
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:37.760
<v Speaker 6>Sir? Go over to weirding Way Media and where you'll

982
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:41.159
<v Speaker 6>find my show Midnight Viewing, where these two gentlemen are

983
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.519
<v Speaker 6>co hosts for our horror anthology podcast. We're taking a

984
00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:47.320
<v Speaker 6>look at Tales from the dark Side. But Midnight Viewing

985
00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:50.440
<v Speaker 6>is also a current show. I do a weekly round

986
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:53.920
<v Speaker 6>up show, and there's also a show about anthology movies

987
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.719
<v Speaker 6>in general. That's all under the Midnight Viewing banner. I

988
00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:57.960
<v Speaker 6>suggest you all't go there.

989
00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:01.400
<v Speaker 2>By them alone almost puts me into shame with the

990
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:04.679
<v Speaker 2>amount of work that he does, which is heads and

991
00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:08.880
<v Speaker 2>tails above what Chris Dashy does, which is clearly next

992
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.920
<v Speaker 2>to nothing. Chris, tell the fine people what you're working

993
00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:12.800
<v Speaker 2>on these days?

994
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:16.039
<v Speaker 4>Essentially nothing. I've been working on myself the last five months,

995
00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:20.000
<v Speaker 4>and I occasionally post audio diversions over at weirdingwaymedia dot com,

996
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:22.960
<v Speaker 4>where you're probably listening to this, and if you aren't

997
00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:25.360
<v Speaker 4>listening to it, there, go to Weirdingwaymedia dot com and

998
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.480
<v Speaker 4>check out the twenty plus shows that we have on

999
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:32.039
<v Speaker 4>the network, including the Projection Booths, Midnight Viewing, adestv ladies,

1000
00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:35.079
<v Speaker 4>whole host of things that you can find over weirdingwaymedia

1001
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:35.679
<v Speaker 4>dot com.

1002
00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:38.800
<v Speaker 2>What about you, Mike, Chris, You're being very falsely modest.

1003
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Chris works on a ton of stuff, usually with me,

1004
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:43.599
<v Speaker 2>sometimes with father alone, and sometimes on his own or

1005
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:45.800
<v Speaker 2>with other folks, so you can always check out some

1006
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:48.360
<v Speaker 2>of the things that we work on, such as The

1007
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:52.199
<v Speaker 2>Shabby Detective. You had another podcast, The Life and Times

1008
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:55.760
<v Speaker 2>of Captain Barney Miller, as well as, yes, the Projection Booth,

1009
00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:58.679
<v Speaker 2>where Chris occasionally shows up. We just had him recently

1010
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:02.159
<v Speaker 2>on an episode I'll about Kamikaze eighty nine, which was

1011
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:04.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of fun and I'm excited for people to

1012
00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:07.360
<v Speaker 2>hear that one. So yeah, come on over to Weirdway

1013
00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:10.239
<v Speaker 2>Media dot com to hear all that. Please make a

1014
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:13.400
<v Speaker 2>donation if you donate to my patreon or Chris's Patreon,

1015
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:16.079
<v Speaker 2>you can get at the ten dollars leveling up. You

1016
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:19.039
<v Speaker 2>can get copies of ranking on Bond, which is our

1017
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:23.239
<v Speaker 2>monthly James Bond podcast, and father Malone has a Patreon

1018
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:27.519
<v Speaker 2>as well, which is patreon dot com. Slash bother alone

1019
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:31.119
<v Speaker 2>perfect makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks guys,

1020
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:32.679
<v Speaker 2>and thanks everybody for listening.

1021
00:52:47.400 --> 00:53:00.480
<v Speaker 3>Call me, that's my name, wad you here's my okay

1022
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:04.119
<v Speaker 3>a balld me a love gun.

1023
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Just the other day.

1024
00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:17.079
<v Speaker 7>And I aim at your way and on you have

1025
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:22.920
<v Speaker 7>to hide and on me to run outside.

1026
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:30.920
<v Speaker 3>Got you in the sight of my guns the first

1027
00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:39.440
<v Speaker 3>time person standing on the street. I said, it's to myself.

1028
00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:43.119
<v Speaker 7>Ooh, ain't she street?

1029
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:47.599
<v Speaker 1>I got maud of THET gunloaded.

1030
00:53:48.679 --> 00:53:54.239
<v Speaker 3>With the ferguson kissing and when I pulled the trigger.

1031
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Down, donna be no old listen.

1032
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:06.039
<v Speaker 1>And on hide. They don't used to run on side.

1033
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:42.719
<v Speaker 1>That's the site of my O. Go well, they don't

1034
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:48.880
<v Speaker 1>need hide, they don't need to run outside.

1035
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:52.280
<v Speaker 2>That's you on the site of my.

1036
00:54:54.239 --> 00:55:00.719
<v Speaker 1>Girl. I'm the big man, n about it. I can

1037
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:02.039
<v Speaker 1>imagine one of that de