Speaker 1: Oh is it show die?
Speaker 2: People say good money to see this movie.
Speaker 3: When they go out to a theater, they want cloth, sodas, pop,
Speaker 3: popcorn and no monsters.
Speaker 4: In the protection booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 5: Run it off. I stared death in the face and
Speaker 5: for the first time I saw my true self, my son,
Speaker 5: they are play we are?
Speaker 1: Why do you hunt?
Speaker 5: My father?
Speaker 6: What's evil into the world?
Speaker 2: I'd take it out?
Speaker 7: Which shall.
Speaker 6: Power is about?
Speaker 2: Swift? Tell me how about this hunter?
Speaker 6: What's you're on his list?
Speaker 3: There's only one way off?
Speaker 1: Who's next?
Speaker 5: If we?
Speaker 1: If we will?
Speaker 2: If in places? Who you really are? And you would
Speaker 2: call me a blitzend?
Speaker 5: You are exactly like our father, just another man on
Speaker 5: tam or drown.
Speaker 6: There is an animal in Juana pass.
Speaker 3: Don't you want to know why? Oh wait, they're right.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White.
Speaker 2: Joining me, of course, is mister Chris Tashue.
Speaker 4: I prefer to be known as Craven Morehead.
Speaker 2: Also on this episode is the one and only father Malone.
Speaker 6: My grandmother died and then I never saw her again.
Speaker 2: On this episode, it's a very special crossover with the
Speaker 2: Culture Cast and Midnight Viewing. We were talking about Craven
Speaker 2: the Hunter. I am Craven some Craven from twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: directed by JC Chandor written by a whole bunch of people.
Speaker 2: Here we've got Richard wank And and the art markham
Speaker 2: ampersand Matt Holloway all taken a swipe with this script.
Speaker 2: It is all about Craven, the titular Craven serge A
Speaker 2: craven Off aka Craven the Hunter, and his complex relationship
Speaker 2: with his ruthless father, Nikolai Cravenoff, who's played by the
Speaker 2: one only Russell Crowe. Mcamuel, Yeah and yeah, just how
Speaker 2: he became Craven through magic and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: We will be spoiling this film, So if you don't
Speaker 2: want anything ruin, please turn off the podcast and come
Speaker 2: back after you've gone to the theater. Maybe rent to
Speaker 2: this on video and we will still be here. So, Chris,
Speaker 2: what did you think of Craven the Hunter.
Speaker 4: I am so disappointed that you guys made me watch
Speaker 4: this movie. This is one of the most unintelligible pieces
Speaker 4: of shit I have seen in a very long time.
Speaker 4: If you've if you've kept up with the news and
Speaker 4: the information that's been coming out about the movies leading
Speaker 4: up to its release. This is the last Spider Verse
Speaker 4: Sony movie. That's it. There's nothing else. This is the
Speaker 4: last one, and good fucking riddance. Because this movie is
Speaker 4: borderline unintelligible, if it's not just completely unintelligible. I don't
Speaker 4: understand why Aaron Taylor Johnson is in this movie other
Speaker 4: than if it was the Dakota Johnson of it. All words,
Speaker 4: I need money, I like money, Give me money, and
Speaker 4: I'll play Craven because I can't imagine he read this
Speaker 4: script and went, Wow, what scenes fealing I'm gonna be doing?
Speaker 4: Is Craven the Hunter. I was not surprised that it
Speaker 4: was quite terrible. However, I will say, on the scale
Speaker 4: of things, it somehow still manages to be better than
Speaker 4: Madam Webb. That is damning it with the faintest of
Speaker 4: faint craze. But for me, this movie was at times
Speaker 4: laughably bad. I can't believe that the movie was two
Speaker 4: fucking hours long on top of everything else, as if
Speaker 4: we needed to be bombarded with two hours of this nonsense.
Speaker 4: But I did not enjoy it. It was a slog
Speaker 4: in my opening statements. If Aaron Taylor Johnson is in
Speaker 4: fact cast as James Bond, that's all I'm gonna say,
Speaker 4: because I'm not looking forward to that. If that is
Speaker 4: in fact going to end, beat the case. There's my
Speaker 4: early opening salvo. And as they say, manifesto about Craven
Speaker 4: the Hunter, what about you, Father Malone?
Speaker 6: I liked it. Of the Sony spinoff movies that aren't
Speaker 6: directly Spider Man movies, I think it's the best of them.
Speaker 6: I enjoyed it more than any of the Venom movies
Speaker 6: three of those fuckers, certainly more than Madame Webb. What
Speaker 6: else did we have? They did one more? Right?
Speaker 2: It's Mormon time.
Speaker 4: Okay, this was way more fun than this movie. Yes,
Speaker 4: oh yes, yeah. If you like this, you once took
Speaker 4: itself way too seriously.
Speaker 2: Right, I agree?
Speaker 6: And I appreciated that about it, because Morbius took itself
Speaker 6: just as seriously. It's just that it was fucking terrible,
Speaker 6: and if any joy you got from that movie was
Speaker 6: making fun of it, this is a more complete story.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 6: My problems with this movie are as a fan of
Speaker 6: Marvel comics who remember Craven being one thing a villain,
Speaker 6: and a pretty good villain at that to turning him
Speaker 6: directly into a fucking superhero, because the story is effectively
Speaker 6: the same.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 6: We get Craven, we get the look they retconned him
Speaker 6: in the early eighties JM. Demitaeus and he took over Craven.
Speaker 6: He wret coond of a lot of the Russian heritage
Speaker 6: and stuff. We get Craven, we get his dad, we
Speaker 6: get his brother, who is the chameleon, who is the
Speaker 6: first Spider Man villain. We get a lot of what's
Speaker 6: really right about Craven, but at the same time he's
Speaker 6: noble and doing all the right things. The problem with
Speaker 6: these Sinister six type spinoff movies that they've been attempting
Speaker 6: is that they never give us the actual fucking villain
Speaker 6: as a character. But compared to all the venoms and
Speaker 6: the morbiuses and stuff, as a story of a family
Speaker 6: and this weird superhero kind of world that they're plucked into.
Speaker 6: I enjoyed it. There was a definite hero villain story
Speaker 6: going on. I like characters. I don't know what to
Speaker 6: tell you. I liked that they had Calypso in here,
Speaker 6: who's his love interest from the comics. And I actually
Speaker 6: think they did her character better than they did in
Speaker 6: the comics. I don't think it was great. I think
Speaker 6: this movie needed to come out six years ago and
Speaker 6: then there would have been some hope for the Sony universe.
Speaker 6: Then it would have felt like they were building towards something.
Speaker 6: I think there's a lot of superfluous stuff in this movie.
Speaker 6: I don't think it's the best by any means. This
Speaker 6: is not a great movie, but comparatively speaking, had a
Speaker 6: good time.
Speaker 4: I will say you've said it, and I've said it before,
Speaker 4: and I think Mike will probably equit as well. The
Speaker 4: fact that these movies are coming out in twenty twenty
Speaker 4: four is wild to me. These movies feel like they
Speaker 4: should have been coming out in the mid tens, if
Speaker 4: not the late two thousands. Like this style of making
Speaker 4: superhero movies is not a thing anymore, and I hope
Speaker 4: they realize it because they're not getting any further with
Speaker 4: any of this.
Speaker 6: Sony is like country music. It's almost ten years behind
Speaker 6: the times, Like country gets poppy eventually. Now country is
Speaker 6: getting a bit hip hoppy and it's always a little tenure.
Speaker 6: So Sony's just, oh, we figured out actually how to
Speaker 6: do a superhero movie too late.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been hearing that this is doing so well
Speaker 2: that they might actually continue the Spider verse that they're
Speaker 2: trying to do over here. I would say this might
Speaker 2: be the best of the lot for me, and that
Speaker 2: includes the Spider Man movies, because I fucking hated those things. Man,
Speaker 2: oh God, could not stand those and I'm so glad
Speaker 2: that they're not coming out with any more of those.
Speaker 2: I don't care what happened to Peter Parker's parents. I
Speaker 2: don't care about the Sinister six.
Speaker 4: Oh you're talking about the Andrew Garfield stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, because that's all part of this, right, This
Speaker 2: is all Sony Like. That was Sony's oh we're going
Speaker 2: we got to make a Spider Man movie or else
Speaker 2: we'll lose the.
Speaker 4: Right time part of the MCU.
Speaker 2: This is the Sony verse.
Speaker 6: It is the Sony verse, Mike, But I think, but
Speaker 6: it is the mc Once the MCU got a hold
Speaker 6: of Spider Man, I think Sony was doing a wait
Speaker 6: and see kind of thing. By then, they had released
Speaker 6: Andrew Garfield, and I think they thought they were going
Speaker 6: to have a trading situation where they were going to
Speaker 6: get Tom harl Holland every other movie instead of five
Speaker 6: movies in a row for Marvel.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, which would be fine. It is just so
Speaker 2: strange to go about this through the villains rather than
Speaker 2: through the heroes and put together this whole collection of villains,
Speaker 2: because you're right, it's odd that Craven is a hero
Speaker 2: in this, and I don't know what's going to suddenly
Speaker 2: turn him into a villain other than his intense fear
Speaker 2: of spiders.
Speaker 4: I suppose, yeah, that was spiders that look like men.
Speaker 6: That's an next logical step of his prenatory fear that
Speaker 6: is somehow genetically passed down by his insane mother.
Speaker 2: Yes, the fear that his mother had is the same
Speaker 2: fear that he has too, which okay, But yeah, I
Speaker 2: didn't mind this one at all. If anything, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I can see myself watching this again, no problem. It's
Speaker 2: like those first two Venom films, especially the first one.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go back to Kurmage, but the first Venom
Speaker 2: film I've watched quite a few times. I think this
Speaker 2: is Heads and Shoulders above Madame Webb. That was just
Speaker 2: the shit show. Horrible acting, horrible everything, just the way
Speaker 2: that the whole story was put together was really bad.
Speaker 2: Still don't know why it needed to be a period
Speaker 2: piece other than that Madame Webb is super old in
Speaker 2: the Convicts and we need to just set this back
Speaker 2: in that free Peter Parker being born eighties kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but yeah, I've enjoyed it. I was
Speaker 2: really glad to see Alessandro Nivola. I kept watching him
Speaker 2: through the whole movie, going is that Pollax Troy? That
Speaker 2: looks like Pollax Troy and just that low talking that
Speaker 2: he did as Alexi's whatever rhino. I was like, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is pretty cool. The Foreigner, I don't know. He
Speaker 2: was just more of an annoyance to me than anything.
Speaker 2: But was it no kay villain? And I was glad
Speaker 2: when he died. I applauded when he died.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they needed the foreigner. See what we're talking about
Speaker 6: here is Sony owning everything that came out of the
Speaker 6: Spider Man books. Basically, if it originated there, they get
Speaker 6: to use it. Unfortunately, there's only like one decent hero
Speaker 6: to emerge from Spider Man, and that's fucking Spider Man.
Speaker 6: So they're left with these villains. And I think it's
Speaker 6: a good idea to give us these spinoff I want
Speaker 6: to see a Sinaster six movie. And it's really easy
Speaker 6: to do that. You just make a villain worse than them.
Speaker 6: Bob's your uncle. But they have to be villains to
Speaker 6: begin with, or what's the fucking point of this, because
Speaker 6: we're not gonna buy the turn when they have to
Speaker 6: finally turn against Spider Man, they're gonna have to concoc
Speaker 6: some bullshit like they're fucking mystically controlled or some nonsense.
Speaker 6: But I can't see this Craven, no matter how badly
Speaker 6: he fears whatever, going after Spider Man the way he
Speaker 6: does in the books.
Speaker 4: They reminded me a lot of the Scorpion King. When
Speaker 4: I watched that movie, I'm like, how is he the
Speaker 4: bad guy? And the Mummy returns. When we were walking
Speaker 4: out of the movie theater, we saw the poster for
Speaker 4: the movie and it says villains aren't born there made.
Speaker 4: And yes, Craven is a villain, but not in this movie.
Speaker 4: Craven is a villa, but not in this telling of
Speaker 4: the story. The worst sin of this movie is the
Speaker 4: fact that it does not understand the character of Craven
Speaker 4: at all. It has taken the character of Craven and
Speaker 4: done something to him that I think is Wolverine esque,
Speaker 4: is what it feels like, Oh, we don't have access
Speaker 4: to Wolverine, so we'll just make a Wolverine movie with
Speaker 4: how Wolverine. And that's what it reminded me of, Like
Speaker 4: an R rated like Logan essentially, but you know if
Speaker 4: Logan was made by less capable people, though I'm not
Speaker 4: sure I would put James Mangold in a camp of
Speaker 4: capable people, given the amazing work he turned in with
Speaker 4: such classics like Dial of Destiny.
Speaker 6: It's better than X Men Origin's Wolverine.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, yeah, that's.
Speaker 4: That is the damningest of faint praise.
Speaker 6: Well, it's still a better movie than that.
Speaker 4: I agree with you there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would actually wouldn't mind seeing a sequel to
Speaker 2: this to see how Craven goes after his brother. And
Speaker 2: I was glad the way that they slow built Chameleon.
Speaker 2: I mean they handed it too. Is at one point
Speaker 2: when he's singing like Tony Bennett and his dad's oh
Speaker 2: he's a chameleon, and I was like, okay, the whole
Speaker 2: Russian thing, and I'm so glad that they were like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, these kids were raised in America, so it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be Aaron Taylor Johnson putting on his
Speaker 2: whole Socovian accent.
Speaker 4: Is it a Quicksilver again?
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I was just like, please, no, I
Speaker 2: don't need that, because Age of Ultron, for me is
Speaker 2: one of the worst Marvel films that has been made,
Speaker 2: just because they didn't understand what the hell to do
Speaker 2: with that thing. But once he started to speak with
Speaker 2: an American accent, I was like, oh, thank god, I'm
Speaker 2: much happier.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and speaking to the James Bond of it all,
Speaker 6: whenever his name got mentioned, I thought that's a terrible idea. Honestly,
Speaker 6: watching this movie, I thought, oh no, I get it.
Speaker 6: I think I could see him as it. Yeah, same thing.
Speaker 2: I said the exact same thing with Chris yesterday, especially
Speaker 2: when he's all dappered up and in London he's got
Speaker 2: a brother's jacket on. I'm just like, look at this
Speaker 2: dapper motherfucker. This guy could be Bond.
Speaker 6: And you mentioned like the family thing where they build
Speaker 6: in that we get the chameleon by the end. I
Speaker 6: would like a sequel that did feel natural. I enjoyed
Speaker 6: the dynamics in this family, all the while dealing with
Speaker 6: the external threat, which is ostensibly Navola as the Rhino.
Speaker 6: The effects for Rhino are a little bit ropey, not
Speaker 6: that great during that final sequence, but I gotta say
Speaker 6: it reminded me that as a child, I religiously watched
Speaker 6: that Spider Man cartoon. That's the Spider Man, that's where
Speaker 6: that where that song came from, and the Rhino was
Speaker 6: always my favorite character. I just thought he was the
Speaker 6: fucking coolest. So I like that we got him and
Speaker 6: it wasn't a giant fucking robot with Paul Jabbadi inside him.
Speaker 2: Doing a horrible Russian accent in.
Speaker 6: That role whoa over the top, over the planet.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was interesting that they name checked Miles Warren
Speaker 2: and I was just like, oh, man, I know that name.
Speaker 2: And it took me a little while to realize that
Speaker 2: he was the Jackal, and I was like, oh fuck,
Speaker 2: are they going to build in the clone story to
Speaker 2: this thing? I hope not, because that's probably the worst
Speaker 2: thing that ever happened to Spider Man was the whole
Speaker 2: idea of him Riley, Oh yeah, Ben Riley. And because
Speaker 2: there's more than just him, right, aren't there more? Clones
Speaker 2: of Spider Man. Oh Jesus.
Speaker 6: But I gotta say teasing the Jackal was pretty cool
Speaker 6: at having him be like a genetic splicing kind of
Speaker 6: a guy, because, let's face it, most of Spider Man's
Speaker 6: villains are based on animals, so we might as well
Speaker 6: have someone pulling all those strings.
Speaker 2: But also, is so much better that Rhino is a
Speaker 2: genetic thing. And I like the whole the medicine that
Speaker 2: keeps him from transforming and talking about pain that it
Speaker 2: causes when he transforms a little bit smarter than the
Speaker 2: original Rhino, who I think was what just he got
Speaker 2: stuck in the suit. Something happened and he's never going
Speaker 2: to leave that suit. And I'm like, man, that.
Speaker 6: Suit's gotta stink exactly like black masks. Yes, there is
Speaker 6: shirt gall at that point.
Speaker 4: When it came to Alessandro Navola, who I think he's
Speaker 4: a great actor. Jurassic Park three, Come on. He also
Speaker 4: played Michael Imperioli's father in The Many Saints of Newark,
Speaker 4: the Soprano's prequel. He's good. I wish they gave him
Speaker 4: more to do because it seems like they gave most
Speaker 4: of everything to Russell Crowe.
Speaker 6: It's Russell Crowe and everything to do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like Russell crow is it just mirrored? Does it
Speaker 4: feel like we've gotten a glut of things with Russell
Speaker 4: Crowe in them all of a sudden.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh yeah, glad either two noes.
Speaker 4: There's that Netflix movie where he's like a psycho like
Speaker 4: driver that's supposedly pretty good. And then he was in
Speaker 4: the Exorcism, and then he was in that was the Exorcism,
Speaker 4: and then the other one was The Excers Post Extorsis,
Speaker 4: which was a hoot by the way, which is great. Yeah,
Speaker 4: The Pope's Exorcist was a lot of fun. I'm super
Speaker 4: excited to see a sequel to that movie. Russell krop
Speaker 4: steals the show. And that's too bad because again, to
Speaker 4: go back to what I was saying earlier, like Aaron
Speaker 4: Taylor Johnson is just one of those actors I don't get.
Speaker 4: I haven't understood it since Godzilla. I got it when
Speaker 4: he was playing kick Ass. He was in Shanghai Knights
Speaker 4: as Charlie Chaplin many moons ago, like many moons ago. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he played child Charlie Chaplin in Shanghai Knights. That was
Speaker 4: like one of his first acting roles. He was like
Speaker 4: a child. I just for me, he's like Sam Worthington
Speaker 4: and Joel Kinneman.
Speaker 6: Like Joel Kinneman. Do not compare them to that other f.
Speaker 4: Okay has this Sam Worthington, Jay Courtney.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I get those two being lumped into the same category.
Speaker 6: And I see Aaron Taylor Johnson, depending on the role,
Speaker 6: falling into that as well. But at the same time,
Speaker 6: you mentioned a couple where he's good, and I think
Speaker 6: he's really good here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think he's really good in Bullet Train.
Speaker 2: I really like him in that one. I'm curious to
Speaker 2: see him in this Nosferato. He's supposed to be in
Speaker 2: that as well. And he was okay in The King's
Speaker 2: Men as well. King's Man Sorry, and apparently he was
Speaker 2: in Tenant, but I have pretty much no memory of
Speaker 2: that movie, which I'm really glad for because that was
Speaker 2: so awful.
Speaker 6: Can I mention one weird thing in this movie? The
Speaker 6: movie starts with a prison break sequence, and like in
Speaker 6: a Gulac, but.
Speaker 2: I kept waiting for what's his name from the Crimson Commando.
Speaker 2: I kept thinking of the prison break scene in Black Widow.
Speaker 2: I was just like, oh.
Speaker 6: Right, But while the production logos are going and what
Speaker 6: is effectively the credit sequence the theme music from The
Speaker 6: Hunt for Red October.
Speaker 2: Is plus Yes, thank you. Andrew was like what is
Speaker 2: that music? And I was like, and sleep shall bring
Speaker 2: new holes.
Speaker 6: I was an usher at a movie theater playing The
Speaker 6: Hunt for Red ac I know that music. Intimately, that's
Speaker 6: a wonderful.
Speaker 2: Wonder in the end of the movie. Yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: it's so good. And yeah when that music comes up. Oh,
Speaker 2: it was a great movie to clean the theater too.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, it was so this movie starts and I'm like what, No,
Speaker 6: and yet I get it. It's like a it's a
Speaker 6: Columbia or Sony property, so they can get away with it.
Speaker 6: But could just use the Russian national anth just use
Speaker 6: any dunt. That was weird. It was a weird way
Speaker 6: to start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I had
Speaker 2: totally forgotten about it. But yes, as soon as that
Speaker 2: music started, I was like, I know this, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I anders what is this? This is familiar to me? Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was wild.
Speaker 3: And yeah.
Speaker 2: I just kept thinking of all the prison break movies,
Speaker 2: but especially thinking of Black Widow breaking her father out
Speaker 2: of prison. I was just like, is he in that
Speaker 2: same jail or because there was also a prison break
Speaker 2: in one of the Mission Impossibles that I think was
Speaker 2: also in a Russian prison, and I was like, all right,
Speaker 2: waiting for okay, open this door, open up this door.
Speaker 2: But instead, as soon as he starts like crawling around
Speaker 2: on the walls, I was like, Oh, okay, this guy.
Speaker 2: It's not just strength, it's also this crawling and jumping ability.
Speaker 2: All right. I guess that stuff that Calypso gives him
Speaker 2: as almost like super soldier serum.
Speaker 4: So clearly defined where his superpower is in this movie, right.
Speaker 6: I think they seem pretty defined. Actually, he doesn't necessarily
Speaker 6: commune with animals, but he has their powers and can
Speaker 6: catch their drift. He's also super strength and super agility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very bastmaster. I kept waiting for There's one part
Speaker 2: where the hawk is tapping on the glass window and
Speaker 2: I was just like, Oh, he's going to see through
Speaker 2: the hawk's eyes, but no, he doesn't.
Speaker 6: In the comic, that serum that Calypso gives him is
Speaker 6: basically like a super soldier serum like the Wakandan herb,
Speaker 6: but here they use it like resurrection juice. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: it has a side effect of the strength and the
Speaker 6: connection to name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I found it interesting the way that they did
Speaker 2: the opening and then going back in time and showing
Speaker 2: his original story and speaking of Russell Crowe, there are
Speaker 2: a couple of times, like when the lion attacks him
Speaker 2: and is carrying him across the savannah, there's a shot
Speaker 2: where his hand is hanging and it's like brushing all
Speaker 2: of this, all this fauna, and I just kept thinking
Speaker 2: of that shot of Russell Crowe when he's touching the
Speaker 2: heads of the stalks of wheat, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I wonder if they're doing this as a little homage
Speaker 2: to Russell Crowe. I had, Yeah, a little gladiator.
Speaker 6: Violence in this movie. There's a particular sequence where he's
Speaker 6: taking out all of Rhino's men in the forest, which
Speaker 6: is incredibly bloody and fantastic. Honestly, it's a very rambo
Speaker 6: section of this movie. And not to hammer this, but
Speaker 6: we're gonna have him acting this way, but we're not
Speaker 6: going to make him a villa, make him just can't
Speaker 6: you just give him like a diet danger diabolic kind
Speaker 6: of thing where he just gets off breaking the rules, Like,
Speaker 6: just make him wanted for something other than doing something noble,
Speaker 6: because when we start this movie, he's got a list
Speaker 6: like he's Green Arrow or something like taking out like
Speaker 6: all these criminals. Basically, what they've done is turn Craven
Speaker 6: the Hunter into Craven the Punisher.
Speaker 4: Here's dexter adjacent. He only kills bad people.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking of the Punisher because I didn't
Speaker 2: dive into this area of the mythos. But when the
Speaker 2: foreigners like, oh, he killed my mentor and he holds
Speaker 2: up a copy just happens to have a copy of
Speaker 2: The Daily Bugle with him and it's what Hunter kills
Speaker 2: Hitman or something, and I was like, who is that?
Speaker 2: Is that the Punisher? Who could that be? So I
Speaker 2: didn't go back into the Wikipedia to find that one out.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that one's lost on me too. But oh, thank
Speaker 6: god we got the Daily Bugle and every one of
Speaker 6: these God, oh don't forget this is a Spider Man movie, folks.
Speaker 4: At least they didn't have baby spider Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one felt them most in universe with those
Speaker 2: Andrew Garfields to me as far as oh there could
Speaker 2: be a Spider Man in this universe.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this one felt the most realized of any of them.
Speaker 6: It seemed to know where it stood in relation to
Speaker 6: the other movies and what it had to give, whereas
Speaker 6: Venom it seemed and I think that from what I read,
Speaker 6: the producers were always like, this is standalone stuff. Yes,
Speaker 6: it shows the universe, but not really. I don't think
Speaker 6: they were ever looking to build anything on anything with
Speaker 6: those other movies. They were hoping with Morbius, but Jesus
Speaker 6: Christ would a fiasco, and then Madam Weaponist.
Speaker 4: Spider Noir the TV show. Sorry, Nicholas Cage, I'm looking
Speaker 4: forward to it, but it's part of this. That's technically
Speaker 4: the last entry in all of this, because that's coming
Speaker 4: out I think next year.
Speaker 6: I believe that's part of Into the Spider Verse.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, technically so is this isn't it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 6: But into the Spider Verse sort of stands outside of
Speaker 6: everything because all of the different franchises can be found
Speaker 6: than there. So that's its own deal.
Speaker 4: I don't fucking know anymore. How's that given the MCU
Speaker 4: of it all, they wanted all, they wanted all to
Speaker 4: be part of everything all the time.
Speaker 6: They wanted their own universe where they kept all the profits,
Speaker 6: and they wanted Marvel to do all the work for them.
Speaker 6: I mean that was the deal, right. Initially they put
Speaker 6: up all the financing and Marvel got five percent of
Speaker 6: the gross and kept the merchandising. And then in twenty
Speaker 6: nineteen when they had to renegotiate, Marvel wanted fifty percent
Speaker 6: of the gross. And that's when Sony was like, fuck you,
Speaker 6: we'll make our own Spider Man movies now, and Tom
Speaker 6: Holland brought them back to the table. And then now
Speaker 6: what happens is Marvel pays for twenty five percent of
Speaker 6: the production budget and takes twenty five percent of the
Speaker 6: profit and has kept the merchandising rights.
Speaker 4: It's pretty smart.
Speaker 2: Remember when they made a Cloak and Dagger? What was
Speaker 2: that a TV show?
Speaker 4: And Humans TV show?
Speaker 2: Oh, I sure remember that one.
Speaker 4: And then they literally referenced it in fucking Doctor Strange
Speaker 4: of all things.
Speaker 6: Yeah, remember that New Mutants movie.
Speaker 4: Really mine, this is in that same vein, right, It's
Speaker 4: just like it's a weird anomaly that stands out as
Speaker 4: its own thing when we're like the look, I have
Speaker 4: my issues with the MCU, but for fuck's sake, this
Speaker 4: makes the problems that the MCU is having look minor comparatively.
Speaker 6: I agree with you, Mike. I'll go one further. I
Speaker 6: think this one actually could have fallen. If you were
Speaker 6: to tell me this was part of the MCU, I
Speaker 6: would buy it and was wondering how they were going
Speaker 6: to tie it in. We've all got superhero fatigue these days,
Speaker 6: and the problem with it, the reason we have it.
Speaker 6: We're all fucking pointing our fingers at Marvel. It's really
Speaker 6: because of fucking Sony releasing poor effort after poor effort,
Speaker 6: along with DC not knowing what the fuck they're doing
Speaker 6: over there. And on top of that, we had twentieth
Speaker 6: Century Fox fucking shit up at least until what twenty
Speaker 6: twelve or so. Oh god, yeah, yeah, obviously we're gonna
Speaker 6: burn out. They just keep giving us bullshit.
Speaker 2: No, you're one hundred percent right, because they were so
Speaker 2: many clunkers amongst all of those in the last twelve
Speaker 2: fifteen years, it's been really fucking rough. Maybe the Suicide
Speaker 2: Squad is the one that I appreciate from that, and
Speaker 2: that's probably because of fucking James Gunn where it just
Speaker 2: becomes a Guardians of the Galaxy on Earth type of thing,
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's I don't know, I could see this
Speaker 2: fitting into the regular MCU because I was of the
Speaker 2: opinion that this kind of fits with their style a
Speaker 2: lot more. And I could see now this Craven, I
Speaker 2: would actually see him teaming up with Tom Holland rather
Speaker 2: than going against him. But yeah, I agree that this
Speaker 2: is more of a quality than Sony has given us
Speaker 2: in a long damn time when it comes to these,
Speaker 2: and yeah, way better than some of those fucking X
Speaker 2: Men movies that they're doing.
Speaker 6: For a while.
Speaker 2: They're x Men two one of the best, but x
Speaker 2: Men three one of the worst. They just vacillated like crazy.
Speaker 2: It was like being throttled whenever you went to see
Speaker 2: one of those X Men films.
Speaker 4: I could see this being a Netflix thing. That's what
Speaker 4: I can see this being. To mention, like Father Malone,
Speaker 4: you already mentioned The Punisher, that was a Netflix thing
Speaker 4: technically part of the MCU. It was it's its own thing,
Speaker 4: but it's part of the MCU. There's a lot of
Speaker 4: violence in Gore in that. I do not disagree with
Speaker 4: you all. In terms of this version of Craven working
Speaker 4: in the MCU. I think he would work just fine,
Speaker 4: given that they have to figure out a way to
Speaker 4: make Deadpool work at this point, and I don't think
Speaker 4: that this character is any more or less hard to
Speaker 4: handle or get a wrangle on than Deadpool would be
Speaker 4: to put in the MCU. I don't think he's gonna
Speaker 4: be in the MCU, but I don't think that they're
Speaker 4: gonna do anything with Craven in the MCU. Anyways.
Speaker 2: It's going to be real awkward when the Scarlet Witch
Speaker 2: sees Craven and as, you look just like my dead brother, right,
Speaker 2: And it's going to be real awkward if we ever
Speaker 2: see Paul Gmio in that mechanical suit, because Craven's going
Speaker 2: to be like, didn't I fight you already? Weren't you
Speaker 2: a mutant before or some sort of genetic hybrid.
Speaker 6: And on his way to the afterlife, Nikolai cravenof might
Speaker 6: run into Zeus.
Speaker 2: Exactly and be like, you look just like Craven's dad.
Speaker 6: The stars were so many they seemed to overlap.
Speaker 4: I guess my question to y'all is given that this
Speaker 4: is the end of the Sony Spider Verse as it
Speaker 4: were in terms of theatrical releases, and you've already touched
Speaker 4: on it a little bit. Mike. This in the top third,
Speaker 4: and if it is in the top third, is that
Speaker 4: just because everything else is so bad as well? This
Speaker 4: movie didn't have very far to go, it'd be better
Speaker 4: than everything else, Madam Webb. Is an affront to most
Speaker 4: cinematic good taste. The Venom movies. You're gonna your mile
Speaker 4: edge will vary. I would go as far as to say,
Speaker 4: I think I enjoyed all of the Vena movies more
Speaker 4: than I enjoyed this movie. But for me, is this
Speaker 4: good on its own? Or is it just good because
Speaker 4: everything else that we've seen up to this point has
Speaker 4: been so mediocre to outright bad.
Speaker 6: I liked it on its own?
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I think I'm there. I think I'm there
Speaker 2: with you. Like I said, I can really see myself
Speaker 2: watching this again. I can see this going onto my
Speaker 2: wife's plex playlist that she just repeats constantly and being like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm alright with this a lot more than things like
Speaker 2: you already mentioned Aaron Taylor Johnson and Godzilla that one
Speaker 2: ooh man, oh man. That was That's a rough one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I just he for me is an actor that I'm
Speaker 4: just not super into in what he does. It just
Speaker 4: kind of always falls flat. And when they when they
Speaker 4: announced that he was going to be Craven, I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: like all right, Like he's already played a character in
Speaker 4: the MCU. We couldn't have found somebody else to play Craven,
Speaker 4: And clearly the MCU has no interest in doing anything
Speaker 4: with Craven. So that's probably for me, the biggest shame
Speaker 4: is that we may never get Craven in the actual
Speaker 4: MCU the way he should because to both of y'all's points,
Speaker 4: he's a huge part of the Spider Man mythos. He's
Speaker 4: constantly hunting Spider Man.
Speaker 6: And his brother the Chameleon, was the first villain in
Speaker 6: Spider Man one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So for me, it's just it's almost like they
Speaker 4: let the cat out of the bag, like they should
Speaker 4: have let the MCU do Craven, just like they probably
Speaker 4: should have let the MCU do Venom.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but they're going to eventually, that's the thing. Eventually
Speaker 6: we'll just somehow get all the right back and then
Speaker 6: we'll get the other versions, including I'm now looking forward
Speaker 6: to the MCU's version of Craven because we're going to
Speaker 6: get the fucking psychopath Hunter who is all braggadoccio and
Speaker 6: will hunt anything as just to prove that he can
Speaker 6: fucking do it, including villains, including heroes, including women, children
Speaker 6: who cares.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing is I picture Craven as a
Speaker 2: much more blood thirsty, crazy guy, and this one I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh no, he seems like a preing, nice dude. And
Speaker 2: especially the way he's protecting the animals and stuff, I
Speaker 2: was like, Oh yeah, if this guy is just all
Speaker 2: about taking down poachers, let's do it.
Speaker 6: I'm here for it, and let's stop across the board.
Speaker 6: Do not tease a comic accurate outfit that you're going
Speaker 6: to show us for two seconds. Stop doing, because that's
Speaker 6: how what the entire time I kept thinking, like, when
Speaker 6: they announced that he was coming, I'm like, they're gonna
Speaker 6: do a Craven movie. Are they going to put him
Speaker 6: in that fucking vest? Because that could be weird? And
Speaker 6: then at the end of this movie, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 6: I like it. Go I want to see him running
Speaker 6: around in that shit.
Speaker 4: And they did the same thing that Fox did with Wolverine.
Speaker 4: They were like, oh, it would look dumb. It's like
Speaker 4: what a No, people popped like crazy and dead pull
Speaker 4: Wolverine for when Wolverine put his like mask, the yellow suit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: people went ape shit for that. Hey, I'm sorry, but
Speaker 4: if you're going to have him on your poster wearing it,
Speaker 4: you can't just show it in the last thirty seconds
Speaker 4: of the movie. That's pretty lame. Like all the advertising
Speaker 4: has him in that in the iconic lion vest and
Speaker 4: it's oh, we're just gonna show him sitting in his
Speaker 4: throne at the end of the movie. Okay, that felt
Speaker 4: so unearned, and the movie was like, see he's craven.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: No, I don't think so.
Speaker 6: I think it was totally earned. I'm just mad that
Speaker 6: they keep doing that in all the bullshit movies, and
Speaker 6: then when they finally get one right, I'm like, oh, no,
Speaker 6: I don't ever get to see him do that. I
Speaker 6: don't ever see him running around and throwing a spear
Speaker 6: in the middle of New York City with the fucking
Speaker 6: lion vest on. Mm hmm, come on, now.
Speaker 4: That's the thing.
Speaker 3: For me.
Speaker 4: I would have preferred it to be more accurate to
Speaker 4: the comic book. But again, then you, I guess you
Speaker 4: run into the issue up it looking and seeming silly.
Speaker 6: The thing that all the fans were clamoring for that.
Speaker 6: Craven's most famous book occurred in the middle of the
Speaker 6: nineteen eighties, and that's Craven's Last Hunt, where he has
Speaker 6: determined that he will go all out to kill Spider
Speaker 6: Man and he believes he does it. He buries Spider
Speaker 6: Man in this concrete coffin, and then having completed his task,
Speaker 6: he goes and kills himself, and then that's the end
Speaker 6: of Craven as a character. I don't know why fans
Speaker 6: were hoping that would be this ad amtmation. It seems
Speaker 6: a little self defeating. I want to see that story.
Speaker 6: And if they had known that this was going to
Speaker 6: be the last, then I would have suggested that they
Speaker 6: go for it, but clearly they thought they were going
Speaker 6: to continue. Nevertheless, that does leave the door open for
Speaker 6: the Marvel Universe to do that story. They could do
Speaker 6: Craven as a one off and have him be a
Speaker 6: villain who ends up killing himself. I'd be totally satisfied
Speaker 6: with that.
Speaker 2: He killed Spider Man. You mean Spider Man's dead?
Speaker 6: He is many years now?
Speaker 2: Oh wow? Is his clone still alive?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: But we got Miles, Yes, we need to have Miles Morales.
Speaker 2: Thank goodness.
Speaker 4: With a movie like this and so many of these
Speaker 4: other non MCU but Marvel things, they are fighting an
Speaker 4: uphill battle because the MCU, for the longest time, set
Speaker 4: the bar very high and was essentially like the high
Speaker 4: water mark of these kinds of things. Now that the
Speaker 4: MCU has faltered a little bit and it's going back
Speaker 4: on the way that they've done things, I look at
Speaker 4: something like this and think to myself, Okay, so you
Speaker 4: did this. You just made this movie, underperformed, You're not
Speaker 4: doing anything else with it, Like, why did we do
Speaker 4: this in the first place. It's just for the continuation
Speaker 4: of the rights. It's just to hold down the right,
Speaker 4: I'm assuming is what it seems like, because again, nobody
Speaker 4: was clamoring for a Craven movie, just like nobody was
Speaker 4: clamoring for a aunt May movie that they had talked
Speaker 4: about making for the longest time. Remember that was one
Speaker 4: of the things that they were like, we're gonna make
Speaker 4: a movie about aunt May. And it's like why did Yeah,
Speaker 4: they sure said that's gonna happen. It's who wanted that?
Speaker 4: And look to your point, father Malone, I would say,
Speaker 4: in terms of villains, Batman has the best villains in DC,
Speaker 4: and I think Spider Man has the best villains in Marvel.
Speaker 6: Is that right?
Speaker 4: Do you think I think he's If he doesn't have
Speaker 4: the best, he's up near the top.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think he might be right. Spider Man does
Speaker 6: have the most outrageous Rose Gallery.
Speaker 4: Electro, Venom, Carnage, Scorpion, Craven, Unasure, technically.
Speaker 6: Octopus Octopus behind I.
Speaker 4: Mean the Green Goblin alone. The Fantastic Four has Doctor
Speaker 4: Doom and they have their people, and Wolverine and the
Speaker 4: X Men have Magneto and their people. But I think,
Speaker 4: for me, when I think of Spider Man, I think
Speaker 4: of Spider Man's like the Sinister Six, like his rogues
Speaker 4: gallery of villains reminds me of the best of Batman's villains,
Speaker 4: and like to both of y'all's points, like, I don't
Speaker 4: think doing a Sinister Six thing was a bad idea.
Speaker 4: I think they probably should have just done that, though,
Speaker 4: as opposed to trying to make this Sideways universe its
Speaker 4: own thing and then we'll make a Sinister Six movie,
Speaker 4: which is what I was assuming the plan was here
Speaker 4: in all this was to make a movie that had
Speaker 4: Madame Web and Venom and carnage and more bious and
Speaker 4: craven and all them together in a movie. That's what
Speaker 4: I'm assuming that this was eventually building towards. We are
Speaker 4: not getting that now, so we will never know what
Speaker 4: they were going for. But it for me is just again,
Speaker 4: it almost feels like it failed in spite of the
Speaker 4: fact that it was trying to do something different from
Speaker 4: the MCU. But because the MCU has set the watermarks
Speaker 4: so high, we all expect quality, and when it's this
Speaker 4: differential of quality between the two, you can't help us
Speaker 4: just look at this and go like, why did we
Speaker 4: even make this? Why are we not just letting the
Speaker 4: MCU do this.
Speaker 6: What's crazy is that they all tried to ape the MCU,
Speaker 6: or to go so far in the other direction that
Speaker 6: it became unintelligible. They had a chance here, because they
Speaker 6: were locked into only doing villains to tell an entirely
Speaker 6: different kind of comic book story on screen that we
Speaker 6: could have gotten behind villainous behavior, or they could have
Speaker 6: made horror movies or thrillers with these. They could have
Speaker 6: gone in any direction they wanted as far afield from
Speaker 6: what Marvel was doing as possible and just make good
Speaker 6: movies of those, and it would have invigorated the genre. Instead,
Speaker 6: we just got carbon copies of carbon copies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, remember the way that they shoehorned Vulture into the
Speaker 2: end of Morbius in that scene. It also is very
Speaker 2: telling with this movie because I used that run p
Speaker 2: app to see if there's extra scenes no extra scenes
Speaker 2: in this movie, and I was like, Oh, did they
Speaker 2: know that this was the end? I don't think they did,
Speaker 2: but it felt very odd that they weren't going to
Speaker 2: use those mid and post credits as any sort of
Speaker 2: setup for play. Don Yes, the green goblin that looked
Speaker 2: like you had an unfortunate disease.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what we want from that character, right, give
Speaker 6: us a goblin face or give us a helmet, don't
Speaker 6: try and fuck around in between.
Speaker 2: I'm just looking at all the members of the Sinister
Speaker 2: Six and all of the different incarnations. It's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2: But you're right, Chris, there are a lot of great
Speaker 2: villains for Spider Man to go against. Just looking at
Speaker 2: the later recruits with like Beetle and Shocker and Grim
Speaker 2: Reaper and Lizard and Living Brain. There's a ton of
Speaker 2: great people that he could go against at any time.
Speaker 2: Evidently Craven was going to be the backup villain for
Speaker 2: Mysterio and Spider Man Far from Home, but they were
Speaker 2: denied the right to use the character. Ultimately, they tried
Speaker 2: to use him again some other time and were told
Speaker 2: they couldn't use him. It still doesn't make any sense
Speaker 2: that they used Electro in that last Spider Man movie,
Speaker 2: because he doesn't know who Peter Parker is, or doesn't
Speaker 2: know that Spider Man is Peter Parker, at least according
Speaker 2: to their own fucking movie.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there was a lot of problems with the timelines
Speaker 6: in that movie and the melding of the different world.
Speaker 6: I think they did a pretty good job considering all
Speaker 6: of the different balls they had to get into the air.
Speaker 6: But yeah, a lot to be desired. Maybe work on
Speaker 6: that script another six months, right, another two three passes,
Speaker 6: which seems to be a common refrain when we talk
Speaker 6: about these newer films, especially things like Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice or
Speaker 6: some of the other ones that we've said, you waited
Speaker 6: this long, Why didn't you wait just a little bit
Speaker 6: longer and make it better. Yeah, they've waited twenty thirty
Speaker 6: years in some cases, and they're like, okay, and now
Speaker 6: here's the release date, go make the movie. Like yeah,
Speaker 6: why is the money dependent on that date? What kind
Speaker 6: of outdated system is that the problem?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 6: The system is just now fully broken where we can
Speaker 6: see all of the flaws, and it gives me a
Speaker 6: bit of heart that I feel a bit heartened in
Speaker 6: that James Gunn has been hammering over and over again,
Speaker 6: we're not starting the movie until the script is ready.
Speaker 6: That's great, Please do that, but make sure the script
Speaker 6: is actually good.
Speaker 4: I will say, though, now that this is over, now
Speaker 4: that this Spider Versus done, where do they go from here?
Speaker 4: Do they just does Sony just give the rights back
Speaker 4: to Marvel and say, here you go, Mia Kolpa, we
Speaker 4: fucked around and found out long enough. Maybe you guys
Speaker 4: can have the rights back and we'll just sell it
Speaker 4: to you for large sums of money, like they should
Speaker 4: have just done long ago, as opposed to effectively getting
Speaker 4: egg on their face with six movies. That's the thing
Speaker 4: I don't understand here. As much as I appreciate that
Speaker 4: y'all enjoyed this movie broadly, this movie is getting poorly
Speaker 4: reviewed broadly. This movie is making no money broadly, this
Speaker 4: movie is a failure in terms of box office, in
Speaker 4: terms of the financial side of it. Just speaking financially,
Speaker 4: none of these movies have been successful other than the
Speaker 4: Venom movie. That's what I don't understand here. The sunk
Speaker 4: cost fallacy is a thing. Stop putting more money into
Speaker 4: the fucking at some point. It's weird to me. Venom
Speaker 4: is a movie that I understand why it got two sequels.
Speaker 4: It got two sequels because it made money. I don't
Speaker 4: understand why they made Madame Web and Morbius and this
Speaker 4: movie because they ultimately serve no purpose. Morbius goes nowhere
Speaker 4: and frankly all it does is convolute the multiverse more.
Speaker 4: And Madame Web again, I'm not sure what the point
Speaker 4: of that movie was other than to pay for a
Speaker 4: home in Malibu for Dakota Johnson. I'm assuming as if
Speaker 4: she needs the money, given that her parents are both
Speaker 4: insanely wealthy and also actors of note in their own right.
Speaker 4: I just don't understand what they were trying to accomplish
Speaker 4: here without Spider Man. I think, to y'all's point, maybe
Speaker 4: it was a maybe we'll get Spider Man at some
Speaker 4: point and Marvel will play ball with us, and we'll
Speaker 4: get the opportunity to use Spider Man in our movies
Speaker 4: at some point. But yeah, you had to make good
Speaker 4: movies for Marvel to give you the opportunity to have
Speaker 4: Spider Man, and they never did. And what's crazy to
Speaker 4: me is JC Chandor has made some pretty great movies.
Speaker 4: A Most Violent Year is quite good, Margin Cole is
Speaker 4: quite good. Those are quite good movies. This is for
Speaker 4: JC Chandor. This is a lesser movie in his filmography
Speaker 4: on top of everything else. But what's weird to me
Speaker 4: is I just don't understand why they kept making these
Speaker 4: movies when they saw that they weren't being successful. And
Speaker 4: to further point, if they saw they weren't being successful,
Speaker 4: why did they keep making them unless it was solely
Speaker 4: and purely to just be like, we want to keep
Speaker 4: the rights to this, and so we will.
Speaker 2: You asked where Sony's going to go with this afterwards,
Speaker 2: and I think they're going to go back and hire
Speaker 2: Sam Raimi and have him do his fourth Spider Man
Speaker 2: film with Tommy maguire. I think that's a good opportunity. Otherwise, yeah,
Speaker 2: they might just hand it all back and be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: it's Tom Holland from sure out until he decides to
Speaker 2: retire from this role, which would be a really bad thing.
Speaker 2: I think Robert Downey Junior is having buyer's remorse with
Speaker 2: his like, oh, I'm not going to be Iron Man
Speaker 2: anymore coming back and doing Doom. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: they probably had an army of dump trucks to just
Speaker 2: back up and pour some money on him, because I
Speaker 2: think they know just losing Downey, losing for Evans like
Speaker 2: those were major blows. They really shouldn't have been. A
Speaker 2: smart studio would have been able to pick up and
Speaker 2: carry on from there, but I think the lack of
Speaker 2: those two characters had really sent them in a tailspin.
Speaker 4: They did too good of a job and making those
Speaker 4: characters compelling, and they didn't do a good enough job
Speaker 4: and making other characters compelling. I know Father Malone's a
Speaker 4: huge fan of Captain America. I am a massive fan
Speaker 4: of some of the other characters in the MCU, but
Speaker 4: I'm fans of the MCU interpretations. Not necessarily. The comic
Speaker 4: books and the movie interpretation of ant Man are vast different,
Speaker 4: but Iron Man and Captain America very similar to the
Speaker 4: comic books very much what you would expect if you
Speaker 4: read the comic books, at least of a certain time
Speaker 4: in a place. And I think that there's some of
Speaker 4: the consistency that the MCU had was tied to the
Speaker 4: consistency of the actors involved. And I'm not saying that
Speaker 4: people are lesser or better than Chris Evans and Robert
Speaker 4: Downey Junior, but Chris Evans and Robert Downey Junior elevate
Speaker 4: the shit out of anything that they're in, almost just
Speaker 4: by the sheer fact of them being in it. Maybe
Speaker 4: not doo little, but not everything can be making you
Speaker 4: so much money you never have to work again, and
Speaker 4: are only working because you want to, not because you
Speaker 4: have to.
Speaker 6: I think it's obvious they thought that they were going
Speaker 6: to be trading back and forth with Tom Holland, and
Speaker 6: that they were hitting these characters, and then after a
Speaker 6: while Tom Holland would be able to interact with their
Speaker 6: villains the way he was interacting with the regular MCU villains.
Speaker 6: I think they just planned a whole bunch of movies
Speaker 6: just willing nilly and put them into production without any
Speaker 6: sort of thought beyond that, figuring that when Tom Holland
Speaker 6: was involved. The Marvel people would be involved in one
Speaker 6: way or another, and they their movies would be elevated.
Speaker 6: So I think that's why all of them are out there.
Speaker 6: I think going forward, I think you're right, Mike. I
Speaker 6: think we're going to get either another Andrew Garfield or
Speaker 6: another Toby MacGuire movie. And I think the way that's
Speaker 6: going to happen is they're going to multiverse Tom Holland
Speaker 6: over to get us back into those movies, and that'll
Speaker 6: be like Marvel repaying their favor, if not an entire
Speaker 6: three or two, like a duo of Spider Man in
Speaker 6: a movie. I think that movie's on the way, and
Speaker 6: then I think we'll get like standalone either Peter Parker
Speaker 6: or Peter Parker.
Speaker 2: The thing I like about the Spider Man movies and
Speaker 2: the Spider Man stories is that they're New York centric. Yes,
Speaker 2: we've had Tom Holland going over seas and going to Washington, DC,
Speaker 2: like they're taking place outside of New York City. But
Speaker 2: I like that they're so New York centric and they're
Speaker 2: smaller stories that it doesn't have to be the world
Speaker 2: is going to be destroyed by a magical blue beam
Speaker 2: that shoots out of someplace or beams down from someplace
Speaker 2: save that stuff for the Avengers, and they do, and
Speaker 2: I think that's really smart. And I think that's one
Speaker 2: of the problems I've been having more with the DC
Speaker 2: movies is that everything seems to be the world could end.
Speaker 2: Like Batman's stories are smart, especially the Chris Nolan Batman,
Speaker 2: where it's it's just taking place here in Gotham, it's
Speaker 2: not affecting the entire world. But then you get Superman
Speaker 2: and those are like, oh, I'm going to destroy all
Speaker 2: of Metropolis plus three quarters of the earth that feels
Speaker 2: like and he's spinning around, you know, And that's Superman.
Speaker 2: He's a god. He can do whatever he wants. But
Speaker 2: Spider Man's not a god. And I like that these
Speaker 2: are such smaller stories where it's like a person versus
Speaker 2: a villain or two. You get in trouble and it's three,
Speaker 2: but a person versus a villain or two that he
Speaker 2: can defeat, but it takes a whole lot for him
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 6: Ultimately, Spider is a street level hero for Marvel, and
Speaker 6: that's what we like about him. That's why we like Punisher,
Speaker 6: that's why we like Daredevil. We like these guys on
Speaker 6: the street doing minor work that regular people can't but
Speaker 6: isn't necessarily the entire island of Manhattan is going to explode.
Speaker 6: And I think that's what everyone needs to start focusing
Speaker 6: on with these superhero movies is lower the stakes, make
Speaker 6: the stakes more personal. Somehow. That always works for me,
Speaker 6: and particularly that works in Spider Man. That's what's always work.
Speaker 6: Those are emotional stories about a young man and the
Speaker 6: crazy world he lives in, in his interpersonal relationships and stuff. Weirdly,
Speaker 6: they carried that ethos here to the Craven movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though he was globhopping quite a bit, like
Speaker 2: back and forth between Siberia and London, A ton By
Speaker 2: and Ghana.
Speaker 4: Yes, they just didn't want Craven to be a villain. No,
Speaker 4: they wanted him because they don't have Spider Man.
Speaker 6: Right, and I think by now they figured out we're
Speaker 6: not getting man. He's not going to be interacting with
Speaker 6: our villains. Let's try and spin this and make it good.
Speaker 6: But it was too little, too late.
Speaker 4: And not only is it too little too late, at
Speaker 4: the end of the day, they should have put something
Speaker 4: in place to secure the opportunity to have Spider Man
Speaker 4: long before they were like, well, just wait and see,
Speaker 4: and you fucked around and found out like big time.
Speaker 4: Because again, that's why I go back to they just
Speaker 4: kept making these movies and doubling and tripling and quadrupling
Speaker 4: down on them, and it's at what point are we
Speaker 4: just going to stop and stop making these goddamn movies?
Speaker 4: Finally now apparently when again I think to y'all's point, like,
Speaker 4: for as much as I didn't like Craven, I will
Speaker 4: concede it's better than pretty much anything else I've seen
Speaker 4: in the Sony versus, other than the Venom movies, which
Speaker 4: are their own thing, at least for me.
Speaker 6: Anyways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just kept setting that plate going around like
Speaker 2: all right, everybody's got the rolls, everyone's got salad or
Speaker 2: coming to the main courses, coming up. Peter Parker was
Speaker 2: supposed to bring it. Where's this Peter Parker guy? No
Speaker 2: turkey on Thanksgiving? Sorry, guys, the whole meal is now ruined.
Speaker 6: And Peter Parker's usually good at those males. So oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: it's definitely damming and.
Speaker 2: And male slap the green Goblin's hand. Yeah, from my
Speaker 2: mouth to God's ear, I hope that's what.
Speaker 4: Honest to God, that's what I hope too. I hope
Speaker 4: that they'd give him the opportunity to do a fourth
Speaker 4: movie the right way and just do it, like who
Speaker 4: cares at this point, Like people were clearly into Toby
Speaker 4: maguire coming back as Spider Man. It wasn't just us,
Speaker 4: like millennials and gen xers, like everybody was into it.
Speaker 4: So again, I don't know why Sony doesn't want to
Speaker 4: play ball with Marvel. Shut the fuck up, give him
Speaker 4: the fucking rights, and let's just be done with it.
Speaker 4: You guys suck at making Spider Man movies. You just
Speaker 4: do because you can't even make Spider Man movies. That's
Speaker 4: why they suck at making Spider Man movies, because they
Speaker 4: have yet to actually make a motherfucking Spider Man movie.
Speaker 4: They've just been like gingly related and we'll mention Spider
Speaker 4: Man's name. Wow, that's fun. Does that embarrass you as
Speaker 4: much as I'm embarrassed for you, because I'm embarrassed for
Speaker 4: Sony when they're like, ah, spider Man, get it, and
Speaker 4: we know we've heard of Spider Man, like we're aware
Speaker 4: of Spider Man, very clearly aware of spider Man.
Speaker 1: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Are you aware of my boyfriend spider Man? He lives
Speaker 2: in Canada, so bizarre to me. All right, let's wrap
Speaker 2: up this discussion of craving the Hunter by going around
Speaker 2: the room here father alone, Where can people hear more
Speaker 2: of you?
Speaker 6: Sir? Go over to weirding Way Media and where you'll
Speaker 6: find my show Midnight Viewing, where these two gentlemen are
Speaker 6: co hosts for our horror anthology podcast. We're taking a
Speaker 6: look at Tales from the dark Side. But Midnight Viewing
Speaker 6: is also a current show. I do a weekly round
Speaker 6: up show, and there's also a show about anthology movies
Speaker 6: in general. That's all under the Midnight Viewing banner. I
Speaker 6: suggest you all't go there.
Speaker 2: By them alone almost puts me into shame with the
Speaker 2: amount of work that he does, which is heads and
Speaker 2: tails above what Chris Dashy does, which is clearly next
Speaker 2: to nothing. Chris, tell the fine people what you're working
Speaker 2: on these days?
Speaker 4: Essentially nothing. I've been working on myself the last five months,
Speaker 4: and I occasionally post audio diversions over at weirdingwaymedia dot com,
Speaker 4: where you're probably listening to this, and if you aren't
Speaker 4: listening to it, there, go to Weirdingwaymedia dot com and
Speaker 4: check out the twenty plus shows that we have on
Speaker 4: the network, including the Projection Booths, Midnight Viewing, adestv ladies,
Speaker 4: whole host of things that you can find over weirdingwaymedia
Speaker 4: dot com.
Speaker 2: What about you, Mike, Chris, You're being very falsely modest.
Speaker 2: Chris works on a ton of stuff, usually with me,
Speaker 2: sometimes with father alone, and sometimes on his own or
Speaker 2: with other folks, so you can always check out some
Speaker 2: of the things that we work on, such as The
Speaker 2: Shabby Detective. You had another podcast, The Life and Times
Speaker 2: of Captain Barney Miller, as well as, yes, the Projection Booth,
Speaker 2: where Chris occasionally shows up. We just had him recently
Speaker 2: on an episode I'll about Kamikaze eighty nine, which was
Speaker 2: a lot of fun and I'm excited for people to
Speaker 2: hear that one. So yeah, come on over to Weirdway
Speaker 2: Media dot com to hear all that. Please make a
Speaker 2: donation if you donate to my patreon or Chris's Patreon,
Speaker 2: you can get at the ten dollars leveling up. You
Speaker 2: can get copies of ranking on Bond, which is our
Speaker 2: monthly James Bond podcast, and father Malone has a Patreon
Speaker 2: as well, which is patreon dot com. Slash bother alone
Speaker 2: perfect makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks guys,
Speaker 2: and thanks everybody for listening.
Speaker 3: Call me, that's my name, wad you here's my okay
Speaker 3: a balld me a love gun.
Speaker 1: Just the other day.
Speaker 7: And I aim at your way and on you have
Speaker 7: to hide and on me to run outside.
Speaker 3: Got you in the sight of my guns the first
Speaker 3: time person standing on the street. I said, it's to myself.
Speaker 7: Ooh, ain't she street?
Speaker 1: I got maud of THET gunloaded.
Speaker 3: With the ferguson kissing and when I pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: Down, donna be no old listen.
Speaker 1: And on hide. They don't used to run on side.
Speaker 1: That's the site of my O. Go well, they don't
Speaker 1: need hide, they don't need to run outside.
Speaker 2: That's you on the site of my.
Speaker 1: Girl. I'm the big man, n about it. I can
Speaker 1: imagine one of that de