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<v Speaker 1>This is Dan Capless and welcome to today's online podcast edition

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<v Speaker 1>of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to give

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<v Speaker 1>us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,

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<v Speaker 1>and to subscribe, download, and listen to the show every

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<v Speaker 1>single day on your favorite podcast platform.

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<v Speaker 2>George Brockler filling in for Dan, the man Caplis who's

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<v Speaker 2>in a courtroom right now crushing it on behalf of

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<v Speaker 2>his client in front of a jury somewhere. This whole week,

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<v Speaker 2>We've got a bunch of guests filling in. I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>thankful to go first so that i don't have to

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<v Speaker 2>be measured against the people that came before me. Dev

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<v Speaker 2>Flora's coming in tomorrow with or without a point zero

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<v Speaker 2>eight blood alcohol level. No one knows at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a joke. And then of course there's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be hiding and all that's coming in here. I understand

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<v Speaker 2>that she and Chrissy Burton Brown are going to do

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<v Speaker 2>a show together. Oh yeah, and they're coming in as furries.

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<v Speaker 2>I made that up.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's true at all. We've had

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<v Speaker 2>some great texts here, and you can keep the text

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<v Speaker 2>going as well. At five seven seven three nine text Dan,

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<v Speaker 2>that's how it gets here. Great questions, and I promised

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<v Speaker 2>to get to these, but we've got to take somebody

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<v Speaker 2>super awesome right now. Now Listen, if you were paying

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<v Speaker 2>any attention at all to what was starting to take

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<v Speaker 2>place on the Denver media, they were trying to catch

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<v Speaker 2>up to the Colorado Springs media last week, which was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to catch up with something that had been building

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<v Speaker 2>in that is this. The current mayor's a guy named

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<v Speaker 2>Yemi Mobilati. He won an election, a hotly contested election

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<v Speaker 2>against a guy named Wayne Williams, back in May of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three. Now, in the final couple weeks leading

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<v Speaker 2>up to that election, there was arguably a race based

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<v Speaker 2>event that took place. Somebody burned across in front of

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<v Speaker 2>a Yemy sign. There was a racial epithet put on

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<v Speaker 2>the Yemi sign and it became a bit of a

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<v Speaker 2>talking point. Well, of course, Colorado Springs PD and the

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<v Speaker 2>FBI get involved. Fast forward, good grief, like eighteen months

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<v Speaker 2>and in November three people got indicted, at least two

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<v Speaker 2>of them black folks, and that matters. I'd say African American,

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<v Speaker 2>but I don't know where they're from. That matters because

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<v Speaker 2>it turns out that this was an effort by them

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<v Speaker 2>to help Yemy get elected. In the fact, there had

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<v Speaker 2>been some evidence of communications that had taken place between

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<v Speaker 2>the main bad guy, who's a convicted killer by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>an assaulter of police officers, and the mayor. And then

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<v Speaker 2>there was a story that came out on the Daily

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<v Speaker 2>Wire from an unnamed FBI official that accused Yemy Mobilatti

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<v Speaker 2>of not only communicating with this person, but coming in

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<v Speaker 2>and lying to the FBI about it. Now, there had

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<v Speaker 2>been a weird series of non statement statements made by

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<v Speaker 2>people not Yemy over the past couple few weeks. I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote a column about it, saying, man, the mayor owes

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<v Speaker 2>some explanation, and sure enough lacks. Last week, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was a Thursday or Friday, he fires up a

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<v Speaker 2>little Facebook live action and in what I would describe

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<v Speaker 2>as akin to almost a hostage video of sorts, he

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<v Speaker 2>makes a series of statements and here's one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>I double clicked on it. Is it doing so?

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<v Speaker 3>Space bar oh Unequivocally, I fully and truthfully cooperated throughout

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<v Speaker 3>this investigation. I had no knowledge, warning, or involvement in

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<v Speaker 3>this crime.

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<v Speaker 2>I did not lie to the FBI.

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<v Speaker 3>I voluntarily provided all requested communication without a subpoena, and

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<v Speaker 3>I received and will be releasing a document from the

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<v Speaker 3>Department of Justice that reads that I was quote identified

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<v Speaker 3>by law enforcement as a victim all potential victim during

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<v Speaker 3>the investigation of the criminal case end of quote.

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<v Speaker 2>With his reaction to that and further conversation. Is a friend.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a big man. If you've never seen him, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a big guy. I could play for the Nuggets, at

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<v Speaker 2>least at a younger age. He's the guy that ran

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<v Speaker 2>against Yemmy back in twenty twenty three. Former Secretary of State,

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<v Speaker 2>former County Commissioner Wayne Williams. Wayne, thanks for joining.

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<v Speaker 4>Us, George, thanks for having me on. And despite my

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<v Speaker 4>letter in basketball from Warren County High School, the Nuggets

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<v Speaker 4>have never contacted me. So let me just dispelled that rumor.

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<v Speaker 4>At least there are.

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<v Speaker 2>Times this season where I thought you could have been

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<v Speaker 2>of some value. Yeah, we missed Aaron Gordon. I thought

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<v Speaker 2>maybe we put in the ww's in there, the WW

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<v Speaker 2>get him in there, get it going. Wayne, you probably

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<v Speaker 2>watched this entire thing, and we have several clips that

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<v Speaker 2>are here. Give me your reaction, So I.

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<v Speaker 4>Think one of the let me react a series of things.

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<v Speaker 4>So first when it happened, was shocked, mortified, and I

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<v Speaker 4>knew that my campaign had nothing to do with it,

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<v Speaker 4>and was hopeful that, you know, people would focus on

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<v Speaker 4>the actual issues and instead, what they did manage to

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<v Speaker 4>do is distract from the campaigns in a negative way.

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<v Speaker 4>And of course the information that it came out from

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<v Speaker 4>someone else's supporters, not mine, doesn't take place until the

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<v Speaker 4>way after the election occurs. It is absolutely wrong to

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<v Speaker 4>do things like this and predict, and I'm glad that

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<v Speaker 4>ultimately it was investigated. The curious thing for me, George,

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know how you know, you've been more on

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<v Speaker 4>the criminal prosecution side. I've never been contacted by the

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<v Speaker 4>FBI or the Department of Justice, even though i was

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<v Speaker 4>the intended victim of the crime, and I've never gotten

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<v Speaker 4>a letter. But having said that, you know, when the

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<v Speaker 4>story appeared in the Daily Wire, a number of folks

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<v Speaker 4>contacted me.

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<v Speaker 1>And.

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<v Speaker 4>My response was first on the indictment that was there,

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<v Speaker 4>that this was you know, this is what law enforcement

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<v Speaker 4>was supposed to do. So I committed those involved. When

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<v Speaker 4>the report occurred from the Daily Wire, Ultimately, after waiting

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<v Speaker 4>to see how it responded to, I contacted Merimobolatti and

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<v Speaker 4>encouraged him to respond to the allegation, and I was

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<v Speaker 4>pleased that eventually he did. You know, as you know,

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<v Speaker 4>lawyers often tell people don't say anything. But there's a

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<v Speaker 4>different role when you were in public office, and so

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<v Speaker 4>your ability to say, well, the lawyers say not to

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<v Speaker 4>say anything isn't doesn't carry the day in the way

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<v Speaker 4>that it does for a private citizen.

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<v Speaker 2>So well, let's talk about that. We're talking with Wayne Williams.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a candidate for Colorado Springs mayor against Yummy.

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<v Speaker 2>And let's sort of drug into this a couple things. One,

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<v Speaker 2>you're right, if anybody was a victim of this, an

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<v Speaker 2>intended victim, it was you and your campaign. And I

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<v Speaker 2>just found it bizarre when Mayor Mobilatti takes to whatever

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<v Speaker 2>he took to say I'm a victim of a hate crime.

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<v Speaker 2>One what hate crime because it wasn't a real crime.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, you probably remember this early on back in May,

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<v Speaker 2>when he's asked about this, he throws out at the

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<v Speaker 2>time and nothing of a statement, says, we don't even

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<v Speaker 2>know if this is a hoax, and I'm like, that

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<v Speaker 2>hits a little close to home for a guy who's

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<v Speaker 2>got contact with the dudes that ultimately pulled off this hoax.

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<v Speaker 2>But the other one is when you said he ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>comes forward and we're very pleased with that, and I

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<v Speaker 2>give him credit for finally coming forward, but it's that

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately part and your explanation that hey, this was on

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<v Speaker 2>the advice of council. I don't buy it. And here's

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<v Speaker 2>why I don't buy it. The guy did have statements

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<v Speaker 2>released about this case. It's just he didn't address this

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<v Speaker 2>issue of lying to the FBI right like. He comes

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<v Speaker 2>out out and says I fully cooperated and this was

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<v Speaker 2>a horrible thing. So he is commenting on the case,

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<v Speaker 2>it just takes him weeks to get to the point

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<v Speaker 2>of saying I did not lie. You're an attorney, Wayne,

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<v Speaker 2>and I get you don't do what I do. But

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<v Speaker 2>you're an attorney. In what universe is saying to your client,

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<v Speaker 2>do not deny the thing you're being accused of publicly.

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<v Speaker 2>You can talk about the case, but don't deny it.

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<v Speaker 2>Where does that make sense?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think it does, particularly for a public official.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's why my encouragement was that he addressed the

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<v Speaker 4>issue squarely, which, as you pointed out, he eventually did.

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<v Speaker 4>I wish you'd done it sooner. I think it would

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<v Speaker 4>have dispelled the story more quickly. And at this point

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<v Speaker 4>what we have is an unsourced or unnamed accusation and

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<v Speaker 4>a named denial, and the hearsay evidence loses in my book. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>if things were different, or if things become different later,

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<v Speaker 4>that's a different story. But for now, the marriage done

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<v Speaker 4>what he should have done initially, which is to address

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<v Speaker 4>the issue and to do it unequivocably. He didn't say

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<v Speaker 4>I was mostly truthful or something else like that. He

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<v Speaker 4>said he did not lie, He communicated truthfully, and he

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<v Speaker 4>didn't know in advance.

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<v Speaker 5>Of what was going on.

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<v Speaker 4>I remember the exact wording, and so for me, right

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<v Speaker 4>this was the necessary responses should have taken place earlier,

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<v Speaker 4>and he's fairly new to public office and so doesn't always.

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<v Speaker 4>Perhaps you may not have had that conversation with counsel

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<v Speaker 4>to say, hey, I need to be forthcoming. I can't

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<v Speaker 4>just say no comment, or I can't just say I cooperated.

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<v Speaker 4>And I of course don't know what was said was

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<v Speaker 4>he and council, but That's why I reached out to

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<v Speaker 4>him and I did it. I sent a text to

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<v Speaker 4>him first before I sent it out, because I always

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<v Speaker 4>think it's a little disingenuous one of public when someone

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<v Speaker 4>says I am calling on so and so to do this,

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<v Speaker 4>and you're going, well, did you actually call it? Did

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<v Speaker 4>you actually come?

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<v Speaker 2>And you did and you did it?

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<v Speaker 6>Because I thought.

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<v Speaker 4>That's the right way to approach it.

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<v Speaker 5>It is.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me ask you this last question before I know.

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<v Speaker 2>You got to get back to your life. There's a pot,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a chance here to do something called a Foyer

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<v Speaker 2>Request Freedom of Information Act. It is super tough on

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<v Speaker 2>a case that involves a guy who's considered a third party,

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<v Speaker 2>a non suspect or non defendant, and that's the mayor

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<v Speaker 2>right now, but he could request the reports and the

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<v Speaker 2>statements that he made and make them public under FOYA.

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<v Speaker 2>He has the ability to do that because he's that guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think you should?

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<v Speaker 4>You know, I would have to look at it more, George,

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<v Speaker 4>because I'm not sure how all of that works in

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<v Speaker 4>the midst of a criminal investigation. Because I definitely want

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<v Speaker 4>these three individuals, all of one of them already been

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<v Speaker 4>convicted of murder, but to the extent that a jury

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<v Speaker 4>finds them guilty. I want to make sure I don't

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<v Speaker 4>do anything to jeopardize that prosecution, So i'd have to.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, you're the prosecutor, you're the expert.

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<v Speaker 5>Is that.

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<v Speaker 4>Is that something that could impair an investigation? And I

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<v Speaker 4>ask you that because I don't know. That's not my

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<v Speaker 4>area of law.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like Wayne Williams is calling upon Yemmy to

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<v Speaker 2>do a Floyer request release, So so I echo your sentiments.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm kidding. That is not at all what Wayne said.

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<v Speaker 2>It was much more measured than that. But when we

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<v Speaker 2>come back, that's how I'm going to announce it. Wayne

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<v Speaker 2>William's former Secretary of State, County commissioner, candidate for mayor

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<v Speaker 2>and all around good guy man. Thanks for taking time

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<v Speaker 2>out of your data chat with us, George.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks and thanks for for also what you said publicly

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<v Speaker 4>early on too, because I think coming from someone with

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<v Speaker 4>your prosecutorial expertise, and the people of the new Judicial

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<v Speaker 4>District are going to start out with an awesome DA

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<v Speaker 4>to begin with, and let's just hope they continue from there.

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<v Speaker 2>Wayne, thank you for that, and thanks for leaving open

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<v Speaker 2>the door that I'll end poorly, but thank you for

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<v Speaker 2>that all. Wayne Williams right here with George Brockler. Listen,

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<v Speaker 2>do me a favorite call in? What did you hear that?

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<v Speaker 2>We got some more clips to play of yummy and

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<v Speaker 2>we'll do it. Do you believe him? Do you think

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<v Speaker 2>that there's more ode here? Or was this it? You're satisfied?

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<v Speaker 7>Move on?

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing to see here? Text at five seven, seven three

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<v Speaker 2>nine call it eight five five four zero five eighty

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<v Speaker 2>two fifty five eight five five four zero five eight

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<v Speaker 2>two five five. George Brockler filling in for Dan Caple's

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<v Speaker 2>on the Dan Capla Show.

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<v Speaker 7>And now back to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>George Rogler back in for the big man. Dan Kaplis

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<v Speaker 2>in trial right now doing the good work on behalf

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<v Speaker 2>of his client. My thanks to Wayne Williams, former Secretary

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<v Speaker 2>of State and candidate for mayor of Colorado Springs. He

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<v Speaker 2>lost out to Yemi Mobilati. He was the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>the person that we were talking about here for this

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<v Speaker 2>event that I don't want to have to describe again,

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<v Speaker 2>but I just want to say that the description of

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<v Speaker 2>what he gave is the basis for why he delayed

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<v Speaker 2>in coming forward and saying I did not lie a

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<v Speaker 2>couple things, and I really love that Wayne took time

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<v Speaker 2>out of his day to talk to us. At one

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<v Speaker 2>point in this clip that I played the mayor where

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<v Speaker 2>he says, I have an official document from the Department

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<v Speaker 2>of Justice, he does. It is a form letter that

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<v Speaker 2>is sent out to every potential victim in a case

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<v Speaker 2>in which they're not really sure what's going on. It

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<v Speaker 2>is sent out like that. He held it up on

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<v Speaker 2>this Facebook live thing to have people take a look

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<v Speaker 2>at it. And it doesn't prove a thing. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>the Department of Justice declaring him to be a victim.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not him actually being a victim. But as I

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<v Speaker 2>watched this, and I watched it twice because I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure I heard all this stuff, I do

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<v Speaker 2>not understand the explanation. The explanation for the delay was well,

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<v Speaker 2>I had to wait to speak with my attorney and

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<v Speaker 2>I had to hear back from the US Attorney's office.

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<v Speaker 2>That just can't be true. It can't be true because

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<v Speaker 2>he already had comments about the allegations and the case

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<v Speaker 2>in the public stream from his deputy chief of staff

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<v Speaker 2>and from some other thing that got put out through

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<v Speaker 2>social media or something where he talked about the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that he fully cooperated. What's the difference between I fully

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<v Speaker 2>cooperated and I didn't lie to the FBI? One is

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<v Speaker 2>very specific, and that's the denial we needed, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think we were entitled to. But if you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>comment on I fully cooperated, why couldn't you say that?

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't buy it. I don't buy it. But

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<v Speaker 2>here's the thing, and this is the pressure that we

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<v Speaker 2>should bring to bear on the mayor of the second

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<v Speaker 2>largest city in the state of Colorado, and that is

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<v Speaker 2>given your weird, tortured delay in coming forward with a

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<v Speaker 2>denial that anybody would have made. I'm talking me too.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, if someone said, hey, Brockler words, you lied

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<v Speaker 2>to the FBI, I would have said, there's no chance

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<v Speaker 2>I lied to the FBI. And the only way I

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<v Speaker 2>don't make that statement is if I'm worried that someone's

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<v Speaker 2>going to find out that I lied to the FBI.

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<v Speaker 2>So now the question is how do we get to

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<v Speaker 2>the truth of it. Now I can take the mayor

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<v Speaker 2>at his word, but given how weird and protracted this is,

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<v Speaker 2>he has an arrow in his quiver, and that's called FOYA,

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<v Speaker 2>and he can make a request on the FBI because

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<v Speaker 2>he is this third party person. You and I could

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<v Speaker 2>make a request, probably going to end up in a

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<v Speaker 2>dumpster somewhere, right, but he could make a request and

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<v Speaker 2>ask for the inn, even if they had to redact

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<v Speaker 2>it out as to some other people, we could at

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<v Speaker 2>least see what communications he had. We could at least

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<v Speaker 2>see from that whether or not. In response to the

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<v Speaker 2>question did you have contact with this guy? He was honest.

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<v Speaker 2>Why wouldn't he do that? It's just weird. And by

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<v Speaker 2>the way, Facebook Live, give me a break man, call

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<v Speaker 2>a press conference. Look people dead in the eye, including

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<v Speaker 2>the reporters, and say now, question me, ask me questions.

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<v Speaker 2>When you're on Facebook Live. You ain't taken any questions.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't even take like text in questions or any

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<v Speaker 2>of the happy bubbles that pop up, the little emojis.

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<v Speaker 2>None of that guy made the quick hostage to video.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a denial and then he cut loose. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not gonna thank him for it, and I appreciate him

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<v Speaker 2>coming for I'm not going to thank him for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Face the media, Where is your sit down interview with

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<v Speaker 2>Kyle Clark? Speaking of that, I'm pretty sure it was

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<v Speaker 2>Jenna Griswold's PR team that advised, don't actually deny it,

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<v Speaker 2>try to hide that information from the public, like that's

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<v Speaker 2>in the playbook these days. Final thing, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>tell you a little bit of a breaking news. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's a little bit of a breaking news, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's a big deal. It also touches on New York

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<v Speaker 2>because you know what they do in New York. Later

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<v Speaker 2>on something called the Heisman Trophy Award. Travis Hunter is

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<v Speaker 2>officially one of three finalists that's going to go there. Disappointingly,

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<v Speaker 2>Shador Sanders did not make it. I gotta believe he

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<v Speaker 2>was number four. I'm making that up. But the other

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<v Speaker 2>two are cam Ward from Miami, yan Fest and Ashton.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's based on my discussion with Ryan off

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<v Speaker 2>Air and and he's giving me the squint Ashton, Johnty

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<v Speaker 2>good Night from Boise State running back Yeah, and then

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<v Speaker 2>Oregon quarterback Dylan Gabriel as well. But I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>got to be it's got to be our buddy Hunter. Listen,

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<v Speaker 2>when we come back, we're going to be joined by

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<v Speaker 2>Miranda Devine. Check for the accent. She is from the

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<v Speaker 2>deepest rurallest part of Mississippi. You'll hear it in her

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<v Speaker 2>voice next year. George Broclare on The Dan Kaplass Show.

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<v Speaker 7>You're listening to The Dan Kaplis Show podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Georg Brocker back in for the Dan Capliss. So much

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<v Speaker 2>going on in the news, it's kind of hard to

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<v Speaker 2>stay on top of it. We're going to try to

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<v Speaker 2>actually get out in front of it. As you may recall,

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<v Speaker 2>a guy named Joe Biden, who was well he's the

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<v Speaker 2>President of the United States at the moment, granted a

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<v Speaker 2>pardon to his son, and there was a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>turmoil and gnashing of teeth over that, and rightly so,

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<v Speaker 2>I've got a piece in the Denver in Colorado Springs

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<v Speaker 2>Gazette right now talking about that. But then all of

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<v Speaker 2>a sudden engendered a bunch of other questions about, well,

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<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, that's just the pardon for now, what

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<v Speaker 2>could possibly come next. I am thrilled to get to

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<v Speaker 2>talk to her live on the phone. You don't need

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<v Speaker 2>a Fifth Amendment for this, Miranda advisement. It's Miranda Devine.

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<v Speaker 2>She has two big books, The Laptop from Hell, which

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and then the follow on the big guy.

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<v Speaker 2>This is right up her ally. She seems to know

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<v Speaker 2>everything about the Bidens, probably at about the same time

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<v Speaker 2>they do. Miranda Devine, thanks for joining us.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh thanks for having me, George. Good to do with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to have you on. I told people before you

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<v Speaker 2>got on you probably didn't hear this that, based on

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<v Speaker 2>the accent, I thought you hailed from the most rural

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<v Speaker 2>parts of Mississippi.

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<v Speaker 5>True, you're a.

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<v Speaker 6>Queen's New York. That's a queen's excent.

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<v Speaker 2>Perfect. Listen, as you follow this, you've seen the same

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<v Speaker 2>things I had, but you just have better access to

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<v Speaker 2>information than anybody else out there. What is the potential

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<v Speaker 2>here that this guy, and by this guy, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>the President is going to exercise his very broad pardon

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<v Speaker 2>powers to try to grab up a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>other people who could end up being prosecuted under a

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<v Speaker 2>Pambondi Department of Justice.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, I think just judging from his past conduct and

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<v Speaker 6>then his pardoning of his son Hunter and giving him

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<v Speaker 6>this extraordinary, unprecedented eleven year pardon for any crimes that

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<v Speaker 6>he may have committed at any time, you know, during

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<v Speaker 6>those eleven years, I think we can expect that he's

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<v Speaker 6>going to be doing much more of that to protect

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<v Speaker 6>the family, and so definitely Jim Biden, his brother, who

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<v Speaker 6>has been under investigation of his own separate from Hunter.

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<v Speaker 6>Jim Biden was also involved with Hunter in a lot

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<v Speaker 6>of the China grift, so it would make sense since

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<v Speaker 6>Joe Biden wants to hide his own involvement in the

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<v Speaker 6>family influenced peddling scheme. Hence Hunter's broad ranging long pardon.

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<v Speaker 6>I think we'll see a similar results for Jim Biden

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<v Speaker 6>possibly other family members, because you know, the Republicans in

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<v Speaker 6>the House who were investigating the I's had something like

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<v Speaker 6>a dozen different family members who had received money from

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<v Speaker 6>China and Russia and Ukraine. Hunter had sort of through cutouts,

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<v Speaker 6>got it funneled through to various family members. So along

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<v Speaker 6>with that, we also hear that the White House has

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<v Speaker 6>been working on having other broad ranging presidential pardons for

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<v Speaker 6>people who haven't been indicted for anything, and that includes

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<v Speaker 6>Anthony Fauci and Adam Schiff, the Russia Gate hoaxer, General

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<v Speaker 6>Mark Millie, Ali, Alexander majorcus So. I think Jack Smith

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<v Speaker 6>has been mentioned as well, So anybody who might have

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<v Speaker 6>come in conflict with Donald Trump who is responsible for

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<v Speaker 6>the law fare or the Russia hoax or any of

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<v Speaker 6>the other monstrosities that occurred against him. I think he's

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<v Speaker 6>feeling guilty because you only accept a pardon if you're guilty,

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<v Speaker 6>and is an admission of guilt. So it will, I think,

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<v Speaker 6>be rash and stupid of them. It just gives Donald

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<v Speaker 6>Trump a least a rumdoers.

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking to Miranda Divine, author of the Laptop from

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<v Speaker 2>Hell and the Big Guy, as well as someone who

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<v Speaker 2>I just took a look on X. You have hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>of thousands of people that get the benefit of these

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<v Speaker 2>insights every day. That is impressive when you look at this,

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<v Speaker 2>and it could be a sum of column A, some

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<v Speaker 2>of column be thing Randa, but you know, when you

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<v Speaker 2>look at the motivations for him to grant these broad

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<v Speaker 2>sweeping pardons, how much of it, in your mind, is

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<v Speaker 2>to protect them from what Biden may think is some

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<v Speaker 2>unjustified use of prosecutorial authority, and how much of it

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<v Speaker 2>is to protect them from having their arms twisted into

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<v Speaker 2>giving up evidence against him or someone else that could

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<v Speaker 2>get to him exactly.

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<v Speaker 6>I think that this is really a self preservation move

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<v Speaker 6>for Joe Biden, because he was the big guy. He

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<v Speaker 6>was the central figure in this influence peddling operation that

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<v Speaker 6>his family was running during his vice presidency, in that

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<v Speaker 6>they reaped millions of dollars from the countries where Joe

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<v Speaker 6>Biden was given carriage to be sort of the number

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<v Speaker 6>one American man. He was the most powerful person in

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<v Speaker 6>the world in Ukraine and Russia and China and so on,

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<v Speaker 6>because Barack Obama had outsourced foreign policy to him at largely.

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<v Speaker 6>So I think that he knows that he's in trouble.

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<v Speaker 6>He may give himself a pardon, although he may just

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<v Speaker 6>rest on his laurels. And you know, giving himself a

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<v Speaker 6>pardon is really an admission of guil for himself that

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<v Speaker 6>goes against everything he's ever told us about himself. That

420
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.240
<v Speaker 6>he knows nothing about his son Hunters with his business dealings,

421
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:03.279
<v Speaker 6>and then he's not in business, which he's done, and

422
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:05.680
<v Speaker 6>then he changed the story too he didn't make any

423
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:10.680
<v Speaker 6>money from his son's business. But I do think that

424
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:15.000
<v Speaker 6>he will try to do whatever he can to protect himself.

425
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:19.440
<v Speaker 6>But remember he's now eighty one. Was he eighty two?

426
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:25.039
<v Speaker 6>And we had the special counsel Robert her say that, well, yes,

427
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:27.559
<v Speaker 6>you know there was good evidence that he was guilty

428
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:34.039
<v Speaker 6>of improperly storing classified documents, but that they wouldn't be

429
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:39.039
<v Speaker 6>recommending charges because he thought that any DC jury would

430
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:42.279
<v Speaker 6>not convict because they would see him as an elderly

431
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:46.119
<v Speaker 6>man with a poor memory. So he's not getting any younger,

432
00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:49.240
<v Speaker 6>and I don't think his cognitive abilities are improving. So

433
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.400
<v Speaker 6>by the time I guess he figures by the time

434
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.160
<v Speaker 6>any trial would happen, after all the delays that I'm

435
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.640
<v Speaker 6>sure his lawyers would put up, he'd be far gone.

436
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 6>So I don't think he's really in any trouble, but

437
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:08.079
<v Speaker 6>the rest of them are probably afraid that it's something.

438
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.160
<v Speaker 6>I don't think Donald Trump is on a retribution binge.

439
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.240
<v Speaker 6>I think he's got his hands full with all the

440
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:18.119
<v Speaker 6>problems around the world. He now has two more problems added,

441
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:23.240
<v Speaker 6>Syria and South Korea and so and he has to

442
00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:26.440
<v Speaker 6>clean up the Justice Department, he has to clean up

443
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:30.119
<v Speaker 6>the FBI and the CIA, and also to port all

444
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.319
<v Speaker 6>those illegal migrants, So he's pretty busy. I don't think

445
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:35.960
<v Speaker 6>he's the type of person that's going to focus too

446
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:41.559
<v Speaker 6>much on the past and vengeance, but certainly if there

447
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.640
<v Speaker 6>are investigations, whether in Congress or the Department of Justice

448
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:50.240
<v Speaker 6>that are legitimate and lawful, and they uncover evidence against

449
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.680
<v Speaker 6>some of these people, I'm sure that the Department of

450
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:57.359
<v Speaker 6>Justice will pursue that vigorously. Might be lawfair, it will

451
00:25:57.400 --> 00:25:58.000
<v Speaker 6>be lawful.

452
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:01.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it would have been more likely that President

453
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.279
<v Speaker 2>Trump would have pardoned Hunter himself, as if to use

454
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.640
<v Speaker 2>that as a platform to say, I'm I'm just tired

455
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>of all of this nonsense going on, and I'm going

456
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.119
<v Speaker 2>to take that. I think it was more likely he

457
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.240
<v Speaker 2>would do that than pursuing these other people. But here's

458
00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:18.680
<v Speaker 2>something interesting. There is within the United States Department of

459
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.839
<v Speaker 2>Justice an Office of the Pardon Attorney, and there's a

460
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.240
<v Speaker 2>website and you can look this thing up and on

461
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:28.079
<v Speaker 2>it they have frequently asked questions, And here's a question

462
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.920
<v Speaker 2>that is I didn't realize these would be frequently asked questions,

463
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.640
<v Speaker 2>But here it is, can the president pardon someone before

464
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.400
<v Speaker 2>they are indicted, convicted, or sentenced for a federal offense

465
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:40.880
<v Speaker 2>against the United States. Here's what DOJ says. It would

466
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:44.400
<v Speaker 2>be highly unusual, but there have been a few cases

467
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:46.480
<v Speaker 2>where people who had not been charged with a crime

468
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:50.599
<v Speaker 2>were pardoned, including President Gerald Ford's pardon of President Richard

469
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:54.599
<v Speaker 2>Nixon after Watergate. Now I've read the text of that pardon, Miranda,

470
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.839
<v Speaker 2>and the last paragraph is somewhat similar in terms of

471
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.480
<v Speaker 2>the language against the crimes against the United State, dates

472
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:02.799
<v Speaker 2>that he may have committed, and all that other stuff.

473
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:05.319
<v Speaker 2>What do you see is the distinction between what Gerald

474
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Ford did back in seventy four and what Biden did

475
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:10.440
<v Speaker 2>some fifty years later.

476
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.400
<v Speaker 6>I think it's near identical. Both unprecedented. Well, you know,

477
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:19.039
<v Speaker 6>the Nixon one was certainly unpresident at the time. What

478
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:23.200
<v Speaker 6>unprecedented about this Hunter Biden pardon is just the length

479
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.480
<v Speaker 6>of time, because the Nixon pardon just lasted for the

480
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.839
<v Speaker 6>four years of his presidency, or went back four years anyway.

481
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:36.720
<v Speaker 6>And for you know, Hunter, it goes back to January first,

482
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 6>twenty fourteen, which of course is when the Ukraine Grift started.

483
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.799
<v Speaker 6>When you know, in February of twenty fourteen was the

484
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:49.200
<v Speaker 6>May Done Revolution, and after that Joe Biden marched in

485
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 6>and took over. I mean, he was the Grand Puba

486
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:54.359
<v Speaker 6>in Ukraine.

487
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:55.680
<v Speaker 2>He was the.

488
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:56.720
<v Speaker 6>Representative of America.

489
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:57.119
<v Speaker 5>Aaron.

490
00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:01.559
<v Speaker 6>Ukraine very much depended on about the West for money.

491
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:04.839
<v Speaker 6>They were completely broke, and so Joe Biden used to

492
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:07.200
<v Speaker 6>go in there and fly into Kiev all the time

493
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.039
<v Speaker 6>and lecture them about corruption is a cancer, he would say.

494
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:14.559
<v Speaker 6>And they all knew that his son was sitting on

495
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:18.640
<v Speaker 6>the board of the most corrupt company in Ukraine, which

496
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.720
<v Speaker 6>is saying something, and was getting in a million dollars

497
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.960
<v Speaker 6>a year for it, despite having zero skills, he didn't

498
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:31.319
<v Speaker 6>speak the language. He never even went to Ukraine, so

499
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:33.680
<v Speaker 6>this was just money for jam It was money to

500
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:35.640
<v Speaker 6>curry favor with his father.

501
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Miranda Devine, I could talk to you for the rest

502
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.359
<v Speaker 2>of the hour, frankly, but it turns out I cannot

503
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:43.759
<v Speaker 2>talk to you for the rest of the hour. Author

504
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.400
<v Speaker 2>of Laptop from Hell and The Big Guy, which I

505
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 2>am pleased to see there is an audible version of

506
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:52.319
<v Speaker 2>this book because for a guy like me, I drive

507
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.319
<v Speaker 2>so much, it is great to be able to listen

508
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.279
<v Speaker 2>to this. Thank you so much for being on the

509
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Dan Kepler Show.

510
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:59.240
<v Speaker 6>Oh thanks so much, George.

511
00:28:59.240 --> 00:28:59.880
<v Speaker 5>Great to be with you.

512
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Great to be with you too. Good luck in Mississippi. Hey,

513
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:05.559
<v Speaker 2>when we come back, we're gonna I can't believe how

514
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.599
<v Speaker 2>quickly two hours goes Man. I used to be doing

515
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Speaker 2>four and this would we would just be hitting this

516
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:13.240
<v Speaker 2>right like we would just be hitting our stride. Two

517
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:15.119
<v Speaker 2>hours not enough time. We're going to come back with

518
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:17.079
<v Speaker 2>a guy named Frank Cauley to talk about something near

519
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:19.920
<v Speaker 2>and dear to my heart. It's Colorado Gives Day coming up,

520
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:21.559
<v Speaker 2>and this guy's got a story. I want you to

521
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.200
<v Speaker 2>listen to stick around. George Brockler on the Dan Capla Show.

522
00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Talk to you in a.

523
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:29.119
<v Speaker 7>Minute, and now back to the Dan Kaplas Show podcast.

524
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:32.759
<v Speaker 2>George Brockler back in for Dan Capla's final segment of

525
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:34.519
<v Speaker 2>the show. It goes so quickly. I would love to

526
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:37.039
<v Speaker 2>give our next guest a whole hour to talk about this.

527
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.039
<v Speaker 2>Colorado Gives Day is upon us. There is a cause

528
00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:42.559
<v Speaker 2>that is near and dear to my heart is called

529
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:46.599
<v Speaker 2>the Homebuilder's Foundation. Proud to sit on the board of that.

530
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.039
<v Speaker 2>But I want to bring up if I can right now, Frank,

531
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.279
<v Speaker 2>Callie Frank, I wish I could give you more than

532
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.279
<v Speaker 2>a handful of minutes to tell your story and pitch

533
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.240
<v Speaker 2>Homebuilders Foundation because it matters to me. My son has

534
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:59.839
<v Speaker 2>muscular dystrophe and Homebuilders Foundation made a huge change for

535
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:01.039
<v Speaker 2>the positive in his life.

536
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:04.240
<v Speaker 5>But tell us your story, well, thank you, Georgie, and

537
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.079
<v Speaker 5>I'll take as much time as I can get. I

538
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:12.240
<v Speaker 5>appreciate the opportunity. I'm in a physical disability. I have

539
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:16.759
<v Speaker 5>a disease called inclusion body myocytis. In twenty twenty one,

540
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:20.000
<v Speaker 5>It's an extremely rare muscle disease. I was diagnosed with

541
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:25.279
<v Speaker 5>this and you know, it's a progressive disease that impacts

542
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.039
<v Speaker 5>my skull of the muscle structure. So I lost the

543
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:31.920
<v Speaker 5>use of my legs and I'm losing use of my

544
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:34.960
<v Speaker 5>arms as we speak. And what Home Builders Foundation did

545
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.680
<v Speaker 5>for us, we knew that this was going to happen,

546
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:39.839
<v Speaker 5>and like my doctor said, you're not going to die

547
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:41.720
<v Speaker 5>from this disease, which you're going to die with it,

548
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:44.400
<v Speaker 5>so we tried to stay ahead of it. We were

549
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 5>looking to modify our home. We decided to we needed

550
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.680
<v Speaker 5>to get a new produgive house, so we bought a

551
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.480
<v Speaker 5>house out here in Kasserbuck that had been modified before.

552
00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.759
<v Speaker 5>And then I lost my job on top of everything else.

553
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.400
<v Speaker 5>And to make a long story incredibly short, the modifications

554
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:07.480
<v Speaker 5>that were done to our home originally were done for

555
00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:11.880
<v Speaker 5>a lady that I never met, but she was significantly

556
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.079
<v Speaker 5>smaller than I am. I'm six to four, about two fifty,

557
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:17.880
<v Speaker 5>and so we contacted home Builders Foundation and what they

558
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.839
<v Speaker 5>do is they came out and they made no cost

559
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 5>to me as a client, some modifications to the home

560
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:32.720
<v Speaker 5>that honestly, as you know, George, they've completely changed my life. Ramps,

561
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:38.440
<v Speaker 5>grab bars, you know, just little things like thresholds, you know,

562
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.440
<v Speaker 5>and they do things like scare lift and bathroom modifications

563
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:46.039
<v Speaker 5>and all of these things allow people with physical disabilities

564
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:51.640
<v Speaker 5>in their families to live safely and to live independently.

565
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:53.880
<v Speaker 5>And it's just it's life changing, Georgia.

566
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:57.200
<v Speaker 2>It's world expanding too. It's like it gives you back

567
00:31:57.759 --> 00:31:59.640
<v Speaker 2>a freedom that you don't have. I mean, I don't

568
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:01.480
<v Speaker 2>think people get this. I mean, my son's in a

569
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:05.160
<v Speaker 2>wheelchair and that is a single stare is it could

570
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.839
<v Speaker 2>be a forty foot high wall. I mean, it's just

571
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:10.559
<v Speaker 2>a barrier to your ability to exist.

572
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:14.440
<v Speaker 5>Before it was diagnosed, since I was going through this process,

573
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.200
<v Speaker 5>you know, just a little crack in a sidewalk, George,

574
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.359
<v Speaker 5>I sell countless times just just walking and you know,

575
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:25.440
<v Speaker 5>you're you're right, even a curve. I can't do curbs.

576
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:30.119
<v Speaker 5>I can't do anything anymore. And honestly, it changes your

577
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:33.359
<v Speaker 5>whole outlook on everything you do. And so to have

578
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 5>a wheelchair ramp or a threshold or you know those

579
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.240
<v Speaker 5>kinds of things, it just it makes you feel like

580
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:42.079
<v Speaker 5>you're part of society. Again.

581
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.039
<v Speaker 2>These are folks who hail from really every I mean

582
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>you can count me as one of them. But these

583
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:50.960
<v Speaker 2>are people from the home building business who just give

584
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:54.119
<v Speaker 2>and give and give, and they ask for nothing in return,

585
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:57.319
<v Speaker 2>and they end up finding people like Frank Cawley, like

586
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:01.200
<v Speaker 2>my son, and they say, let us help you find

587
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.160
<v Speaker 2>a way to get some dignity back, to get some

588
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 2>autonomy back, and to live with greater freedom. And so,

589
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:09.640
<v Speaker 2>if you're looking to do something for Colorado Gives Day,

590
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:13.720
<v Speaker 2>you can't do much better than Homebuilders Foundation. Go to

591
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:17.279
<v Speaker 2>Colorado Gives Day, HbF Denver, look up HbF Denver. Frank,

592
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:19.880
<v Speaker 2>any parting words there, I got a few seconds for you.

593
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:22.400
<v Speaker 5>Well, I just want to point out that this is

594
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:24.799
<v Speaker 5>not a fly by night organization, no way, been around

595
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:27.880
<v Speaker 5>for ever. Since nineteen ninety three, they've done over two

596
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:32.839
<v Speaker 5>hundred to two three hundred individuals have been impacted positively,

597
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:36.640
<v Speaker 5>and most importantly, it helps people disabilities. But as you know,

598
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 5>George would also helps start family because cuss reavers need

599
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.240
<v Speaker 5>this help as much or more in some cases than

600
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.000
<v Speaker 5>those of us with disability. So it's just a life

601
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:49.319
<v Speaker 5>changing organization that helps people every single minute of every

602
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:51.920
<v Speaker 5>single day. And I can't I can't say enough to

603
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.359
<v Speaker 5>thinks about them about their work.

604
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Same God, bless you, Frank. Thanks for making time for

605
00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:56.240
<v Speaker 2>us tonight.

606
00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:58.400
<v Speaker 5>Thank you for the time, George, I appreciate the chance.

607
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:00.799
<v Speaker 2>Thanks her. That's Homebuilders Foundation and check it out at

608
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Colorado Gibbs Day HbF Denver. Listen, I can't believe we've

609
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:09.440
<v Speaker 2>run out of time, Ryan, this is crazy. Tomorrow filling

610
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:11.719
<v Speaker 2>into this very seat, it'll probably be a little taller

611
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.760
<v Speaker 2>is deb Flora. Of course. Flora is Italian for feet.

612
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Last point of personal privilege. Thank you to Kelly, thank

613
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.360
<v Speaker 2>you to Ryan, Thanks for Dan for the chance. And

614
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.840
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow big big birthday for the Brocler household. Thank you,

615
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.360
<v Speaker 2>and happy birthday to Amanda. She is the first bestest

616
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.960
<v Speaker 2>thing I think that I ever did. Happy birthday, a man.

617
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to see you again. George Brockler filling

618
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:36.239
<v Speaker 2>in Dan Caplis