Speaker 1: Hello friends, and welcome back to the rabbit Hole. I'm
your host Danny, and today we have the pleasure of
having Andy Hunt on the podcast. He is the host
of the YouTube channel Control Alt History, which covers mysteries,
government covered ups, the esoteric, and the unexplained. He does
deep dives into odd things that just really don't add up. Today,
we're going to talk about the Challenger explosion. Did the
astronauts actually die? A lot of you have requested this
from me. He has already covered this, so I asked
him to come on the podcast and explain to it
was this whole thing fake? And also how does this
connect to the Iran contra scandal? Because it does. Hi, Andy,
thank you so much for coming on the rabbit Hole.
I'm really excited to talk about this Challenger thing. I
don't even know what to call it, like a scandal, mystery.
Speaker 2: I guess you could call it a conspiracy, but yeah,
I think is probably a good word.
Speaker 1: You run a YouTube channel, why? Okay? Yeah, I have
a question. Actually, why do you only do it on
YouTube and not also put it as a podcast.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've actually had a couple of people
ask me to do that. And I mean a lot
of it's just kind of like a time thing. Yeah,
I mean, it's just more work to I, you know,
just even struggle with like posting on social media.
Speaker 1: That's really funny that you say that, because like I
was told that I should start posting on YouTube, and
I was like, gosh, that's so much more work.
Speaker 2: I know, it's like posted on Rumble, post it on YouTube,
post it on Spotify. Do social media just only so
many hours in the day, so I understand. And plus
a lot of my videos, you know, they're kind of
like visual, like I show a lot of like newspaper
articles and things like that that kind of dot document
what I'm talking about, So.
Speaker 1: That makes sense.
Speaker 2: You can't really see that on Spotify. But yeah, I've
actually had requests to do it on just upload it because
some people say they do like to just listen to
the audio.
Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't. I didn't think that people would watch
the videos, and then they do, and so I was like, okay,
well there you go. Yeah, so I have not dove
into the Challenger explosion at all. So I'm really excited
for you to explain this entire thing because it has
been requested several times by so many people, and so
I'm just gonna let you take it away, and I
will ask questions as they come up, because I will
have lots of questions.
Speaker 2: I always okay, yeah, yeah, all right. So yeah, I
mean everybody obviously probably knows the Challenger explosion. It was
probably the defining event of the nineteen eighties. Happened in
nineteen eighty six January nineteen eighty six, and uh, you know,
there's seven astronauts who were supposedly on board who died
and then like this didn't come out and for about
twenty some years, I think it was around like two
thousand and nine. It was just like a series of
random Internet message board posts where people found basically like
doppelgames like lookalikes for each one of the astronauts. In
a lot of cases they had the exact same name.
In every case, like the age matched up, where if
you just added twenty years to the Challenger astronauts age,
that added up to the person that was found. And
a lot of people had just like really you know,
obscure names like Richard Scobi, which is a very you know,
obscure last name, and there was a Dick Scobi who
was on the Challenger flight and a Dick Scoby who
was found it looks exactly like I mean, a couple
of them are.
Speaker 1: Like they didn't even find that hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a couple were close, but like some of
them are just identical. Then Dick Scoby want is just identical.
There's like a Judith Resnik, which again is a pretty
odd name, and so, you know, people just kind of
pointed this out and it was like, well, i mean,
obviously the Space Shuttle exploded. I don't think that's in
quite you know, there's video of it and everything, but
the question is, what were these astronauts actually on board
or you know, it was the whole thing a show,
And uh so that's like a pretty won't like you
see a lot of that on like social media, and
there's a lot of videos out there about it. It
was a big deal when it was first found.
Speaker 1: It's well then everybody, like everybody's watching this all around
the world, right in the US because the teacher was
on board, right, Yeah, they had like all the all
the students in like schools were watching this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the big thing. She was the first
civilian in space, so she was the first person who
wasn't like, you know, a military background or you know,
a professional like that. So they actually had a big,
like nationwide contest where people submitted, you know, reasons why
they should I guess, or there was like a questionnaire
to fill out something like that, and she was actually
just chosen out of everyone. I actually find it pretty
suspicious because you know her name. There were supposedly just
thousands upon thousands upon thousands. Her name is Krista mccauliffe. Okay,
And there's a guy who was governor of Virginia whose
name is Terry mccauliffe, and he was like, he ran
Hillary Clinton's campaign. He's really in tight with the Clintons. Yep.
And uh so her it's just kind of a weird.
It's an odd last name. She has a husband who
he like he has a military background as well.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you that if like she's got
a family member that's in the military exact.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he graduated from Virginia Military Academy. He's a judge.
You can find pictures. I think his name is Stephen mccaulliff.
He's a judge now in New hamp I think it
was New Ham. Sure, you can find pictures of him
with the Clintons and Joe Biden, so it's kind of
a connected family. And so I found it a little
odd that of all the people, she just happened to
be the person who was you know, chosen at random.
And but yeah, you're exactly right. Like the whole thing
was just really publicized a lot because she was the
first civilian in space, and you know, there's all these
things with her training, all these features on her and everything.
And then when the when the actual mission happened, pretty
much every you know, school in the nation brought out
TVs and you know, kids watched it and then the
specially exploded and you know it was, like I said,
it's kind of considered the defining moment of the eighties
and so yeah, and it took about over twenty years,
So that's that's you know. Another thing that's kind of
weird is like people say, oh, this is such a
big thing, like there's no way they could have kept
it a secret. But this was twenty years until anyone
uncovered just and you know, the guys were using the
same name, they look alike. Yeah, and you know it's
not like it just people spotted this, right away.
Speaker 1: It's so for it to well, and we didn't have
the Internet, so like it was easy to find people, right,
so they probably thought that they could hide them easier.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, the Internet just made everything so different. But yeah,
without the Internet, you could easily easily hide people, Oh god,
so easily. Yeah, yeah, I mean even back then, you know,
like people just things happened and people just forgot about them,
you know, you know a week later they move on
to something else. If you asked a year later, if
you asked anyone at random what the names of the
Challenger astronauts were, probably of them would have no idea.
You know, they remember the Challenger, but yeah, I would
remember the names. Now you can just google it. But
back then, you know, most people would not remember.
Speaker 1: So and like, yeah, love for them, that's another thing,
like why would you look for them?
Speaker 2: Right exactly?
Speaker 1: That all you've like all of sudden have been found, right.
Speaker 2: Uh. There was one actually that kind of hasn't been found.
It was Greg Jarvis and he's kind of a mystery.
He has not been found yet. The thing has kind
of died out. It was it was a really big
deal for like right when it was discovered because It's
interesting because you can find the original like internet thread,
the message board thread when this was first discovered, and
initially it was just one person finding there. They just
found one person. Yeah, like this is really weird. Like
there's this person who looks exactly like the Challenger Asternat
who died twenty years ago, and he's got the exact
same name. If you're like, yeah, that's really weird. And
then somebody else searched for one of the other astronauts
and found another one, like wait, here's another guy. And
then someone's like, okay, these two are potentially still alive.
What about the others, And then they found you know,
these doppel games and look alikes for everyone, and like
two of them have brothers who looked just absolutely identical.
That was kind of the cover story for your potential
cover story was Oh no, no, no, it's this brother. This
guy is a brother and that's why he looks identical
and same age and everything. But I did a video
about this, and I kinda talked a bit about like
why they would, because you know, that's that's a good question,
is like, well, if they did something this, if somebody
was behind doing something this massive and faking these desks
and maybe even blowing the space shel up on purpose,
Like why would you why would you do that? What
would be the motive? You know, it's such kind of
an odd thing to do. And uh So in my video,
I kind of speculated that it could have been sort
of tight end with Iran Contra, which Iran Contra was
like this this massive, massive scandal in the eighties. Most
people have probably heard of it, but I mean it
involved the highest level of power in the government, George Bush,
potentially even Reagan, all these CIA people. Naturally, I mean
it was yeah, it was of course, yeah, that surprise there,
and I mean it was just it's just crazy how
massive Iron Contra was. And a month before the Challenger
crash happened, there was a crash of a US military
flight in Gander, Canada, Okay, And so that's like Newfoundland,
so it's kind of on the far east side of Canada.
And this was a transport plane that was transporting soldiers
back from they were on a mission in the Middle East.
The plane crashed in Canada on its way back to
one hundred and fifty US soldiers died and the crash,
it's the worst air disaster in the history of the
US military. Wow, And no one's ever even heard of it,
you know, no one remembers it. It happened exactly one
month before the Challenger crash happened and the plane crashing Gander.
Is this absolutely just gigantic mystery, just this huge, huge mystery.
You know. The official story was that it was ice
on the wings that caused it, but there were multiple
eyewitnesses who said the plane just exploded in mid air.
There were these like suspicious crates that were loaded onto
the plane because it was in it was in the
Middle East, so it departed from Egypt, Cairo, Egypt because
the mission that these people were on were guarding what
they regarding the border between Israel and Egypt. It was
a peacekeeping mission, and so they were guarding this border
and like making sure, you know, fights and things like
that didn't break out. And then on their way they
were you know, deployed over there for like six seven months.
On their way back, got on a plane in Egypt,
flew to Canada. When it took in the Atlanta and
Canada refueled, took off from Canada, and like twenty seconds
after it took off, crashed and everybody on board died,
and uh so there's kind of like one of the
controversies with it is like, well, what exactly were these
people up to in the Middle East? Was it really
just like a peacekeeping mission, because you know, Iran's right
over there, and so there was a lot of like
speculation that they were actually involved in like the whole
Iranian Contra drug drug situation, and this plan was blown
up to you know, get rid of some witnesses or
get rid of some people because the whole Iran Contra
thing wasn't It didn't come out until nineteen like late
nineteen eighty six, and this plane crash happened in nineteen
eighty five. And Iran Contra though, the thing that eventually
became known as Iran Contra that had been going on
since like nineteen eighty one or two, like it went on.
Speaker 1: People didn't know that this was happening yet, so they're
like still trying to keep it under wraps exactly. But
also you said something really interesting to me because like
I was in the military and I flew on planes
and when I was in and you you said that
the plane crashed like twenty seconds after it took off
like it took off and then instantly like it would
have had to blow up to kill those people, because
you take off, you can land right right back, like
even if your landing gear is not working, like you
can just like scoot that thing right across. You're gonna
be fine.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, and I might be wrong on that twenty
second number, but like it.
Speaker 1: Happens, like but still you're not that far off the ground,
like you can I know that.
Speaker 2: Thing, I know. Yeah, there was all this evidence that
it was broken, that it was blown up, like, uh,
they're like the people on board were found with all
this carbon monoxide in their lungs, which indicated that there
was an explosion and they inhaled the smoke as opposed
to the plane just lost control and air and then
crashed into the ground, right because the impact would have
killed them. They wouldn't have you know, breathed after dying
in the impact bus the cabin, you know, the other
thing of the cabin was filled with smoke and they
inhaled that. Yeah, they were like charred bodies found in
areas that weren't you know, burnt at all on the ground,
and so that indicates too that they were charred in
the air and they fell down. So there's all these
I mean, it's a whole massive mystery. But yeah, it
was the worst air disaster in the US military history.
And like none of the family members believed the official story.
They were making all this noise about like what the
hell happened, Like you find out, like we don't believe
this story. The government's covering something up and making all
this noise. There was a ton of media coverage initially,
like after it happened, because it was, you know, such
a tragic thing. It was just right, just a day
or two they're flying home for Christmas, so it's just
like a day or two before Christmas. You know, they
were all American soldiers, and uh so it was a
big deal, like right after it happened, and then a
lot of media coverage, newspaper articles, magazine articles, all that,
and then what happened was like a you know, about
a month later, the Challenger explodes and everyone just forgets
about the Gander crash. You know, it just totally pushed
it off the front page. They were like congressional investigations
into those got totally buried by the Challenger investigation and
the Challenger crash, like you know, it just totally. So
I talked about the movie Wagged the Dog. I don't
know if you're familiar with I haven't seen the movie. Yeah,
but the movie is about like a president's facing a
sex scandal right before the re election, right before the election,
and so what he decides to do is declare a
fake war on a foreign country to divert the media
attention towards this war as opposed to the media focusing
on his sex scandal. So he's basically like creating this
you know, big elaborate story to push his sex sex
scandal down in the news because especially back then, like
we talked about, like before the Internet, you know, there
was only newspapers and magazines and you know, nightly news
broadcasts and you can only cover so many articles in
the you know magazine that's one hundred fifty pages.
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton actually did that with his sex scandal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is there is, Like, yes, this I.
Speaker 1: Mean I think it works for multiple instances because Bill
Clinton actually actually did that with Monica Lewinsky.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I mean the exact literally the exact same thing.
Because I did a video just about the movie Wag
the Dog, and I called it the most important movie
of all time.
Speaker 1: I watched this video, and I like, I still have
not watched Like I have not watched the movie. I
need to go watch it. I need to just go
watch the movie right, Like I just need to like
take the time to do it right.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's crazy how how often I think
like that. You can, like it's pretty blatant that it
happens in real life. And I think there's a lot
of instances like this Challenger thing that very well could
be you know, instances like that where they're planned out
to hog up a bunch of media attention and divert
attention away from some other scandal or some other story
that you know, the people behind them do not want
the media and the public to focus on, right, because
it's always usually public pressure or like media attention that
really busts, like a scandal open and you make ensures
that it doesn't just fizzle out and talked about for
a day or two and then disappears. And uh so
that's why what I kind of like speculated about the Challenger.
You know, it's like if it was done on purpose,
like why would you know you just blow up a
space shuttle. I speculated, like, well, you know, since it
because the media coverage of the Challenger exploding was like
unlike any event in the history of mankind, Like it
was on the cover of every magazine. There was a huge,
huge investigation into what happened, and there were like a
million different explanations at one point.
Speaker 1: And there's all this scandal following it, right because like, Okay,
so I'm actually working on an Nostradamis episode which kind
of has no connection to this. It does actually, so
he may or may not have predicted this Challenger explosion,
but there was all this scandal after the Challenger that
like the military contractors messed something up and there was
like oh rings or something rings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that was the story that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like this blows up and you're like, okay, what
an o ring? And don't get me wrong, they're important,
but like one thing caused the whole ship to blow up.
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, it seems really hard to believe, but yeah,
I guess it was just so it was like unseasonally
cold in Florida on that day, Like you can kind
of see them like icicles forming on the outside of
the shuttle and everything. But but I think that was Yeah, they.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't make these o rings like able twist stand that
because once you get into space, right, they would like
it's cold. Yeah yeah, So it doesn't make any sense. Okay,
Florida might have been cold that day, but they're going
up into space where it's cold.
Speaker 2: It's very cold. Yeah, okay, I no, it's weird. And
it was weird because there were just so many explanations afterwards,
and like this person or this company or this person
was to blame. No, this person was to blame, No,
this person was. So it just the whole media coverage
of like what caused it, it just dragged out forever. There
was something called the Mitchell Uh I think that I
might have the name wrong, but it was like the
Warren Commission. Oh yeah, And it was like the Warren
Commission always yeah yeah, And you know a bunch of
important people were, you know, on the commission, and they
investigated it and did this whole thing, and there were
all these media updates and press conferences and so it
really did just hog media coverage forever. And I mean,
no one has ever even heard of the Gander crash,
which you know, is wild to me because like I said,
two hundred and fifty US soldiers died in it, and.
Speaker 1: Under like what was happening in the days following the
Challenger crash, Like everyone's focused on this, right, Like what
other things were they like sneaking and like doing behind
the scenes because they're like, oh, nobody's paying attention to
us right now, so let's go ahead and do all
these weird things.
Speaker 2: Yeah past some legislation. Yeah, I know, yeah, it's it's crazy.
So so that was kind of what I speculated. And
I also did a video on the moon trips back
in the oh yeah, sixties and seventies, kind of wondering
there was a great video in like a similar vein
as the Challenger one, because you know, there's always been
a big controversy over where the moon landing's legit or
were they faked?
Speaker 1: Do you think they were legit?
Speaker 2: I would lean towards no. No.
Speaker 1: Why why is your opinion?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Because I know, I like obviously know my opinion, and
I know a lot of people's opinions because people love
to share it, but I'm curious about yours.
Speaker 2: Well, So there's a couple of really interesting statistics about
moon trips, and I talk about. One of the absolute
most fascinating one to me is the Moon is I
think it's two hundred forty one thousand miles from the Earth.
I think that's the number if I recall correctly. And
from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy two, we made
that two hundred and forty thousand trip mile mile trip
six times. It happen six times into three years. Forty
thousand miles. Yeah, Allegedly, since nineteen seventy two, the farthest
that anyone has been into space is about two hundred miles,
So you're talking one to one thousand of the distance
that we traveled three times from nineteen sixty nine to
nineteen seventy two. In those fifty plus years, no one
has gone one one thousand, and to me, the interesting
thing about that is it's not just NASA, you know,
because there's all these other space programs. Japan has a
space program, China has a space program, Russia has a
big space program. There's all these private companies, you know,
SpaceX and whatever, the Jeff Bezos, Blue Thunder or Blue Origin.
You know, there's all these space companies. You would think
somebody would do whatever the whatever it takes to go
back to the Moon for the first time in fifty years.
You got all this money, I mean, every single.
Speaker 1: Everybody putting money into it.
Speaker 2: Right absolutely, and every you know, I mean, Russia would
absolutely love to, you know, stick it to the United States,
and they're China, stick to the United States go back
to the Moon when we supposedly can't anymore.
Speaker 1: And they came home and they destroyed all the blueprints.
They're like, we're done, We're never going back there. Right
Then all of a sudden, they're like, let's just destroy
everything because we're never gonna want to go back there
ever ever. Right, wait a second. I have two theories
about this. Either we went to the Moon and we
found something really horrific and they came back kind of
like Antarctico, how like we can't agree on anything, but
we agree on Antarchsica, and everybody's like, okay, we're not
going to talk about that. Nobody's allowed to go there,
only scientists, right, Like every nation agrees on that. It's
like they came home they were like, let's get everybody
together and we're gonna agree as a world that we're
never going back, which is not the case. Everyone talks about, oh,
we're going to go back to the moon, well or
we never went in the first place.
Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, it's one of the two. Yeah, that
makes the most sense. But what was interesting was, uh
so I kind of talked about that in the video,
how weird it was that, you know, no one's been
one one thousands of the distance that we went six
times back then. But what I talked about that I
found interesting. And there's a writer his name is Dave McGowan.
He's a pretty well known writer. Yeah, so he would
did like a web series about the moon landings that's
really really good. And what he kind of talks about
and that is how every moon landing over that three
year stretch just happened to really coincide with like a
really major event in the Vietnam War and like a
really controversial thing that was going on with the Vietnam War. Interesting,
and so like you know, the Vietnam War was just
total insanity, Like I mean, it's just crazy the stuff
that was going on. And uh so, a lot of times,
like you know, and and it's like every instance of
a moonship there were seven moon tips because there was
also a Paul thirteen that didn't make it there, right,
Yeah it went yeah, but yeah, and every one.
Speaker 1: Did it go up and then explode or it exploded.
Speaker 2: On well it was in because it was the it
was the movie. There was in it was somewhere in space.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, I get confused between that one and
the Challenger, and like one of them exploded right away,
one of them didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Challenger exploded right away.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm like, there's too many shuttles
to keep druggings.
Speaker 2: And but yeah, it's really interesting because all seven of
the moon trips they coincide with like really controversial events
that were going on in Vietnam. And there were even
people at the time, like back in the late sixties
early seventies when the moon trips happened that we're saying,
like all these moon trips are is just bread and circus.
All it is is just a way to distract people,
like right, and because they were like you talk about
the Challenger having a lot of media coverage, freaking the
moon trips were just ridiculous, especially the first one. You know,
the first one was just unlike any media coverage event ever.
Speaker 1: Like how like everybody's talking about that, right, you go
to like a dinner party and people like, oh about
that moon landing though, Yeah, like that's like the thing
to talk, not.
Speaker 2: Talking about Vietnam War and people dying. And yeah, because
one of the crazy things about the Vietnam Wars, there's
like this program, it was called the Phoenix Program, which
is like this brutal, brutal program where US soldiers were
trained to like torture people for like prisoners for information.
And it was like a psychological thing where even they
were like instructed to like dismember bodies and put them
on display to like terrify people into not helping the enemy.
I mean, it's a whole complicated thing, but a lot
of the couple of the moon trips coincide with these
like really important because the Phoenix program was unknown for
a long time and then this couple people and it
came out and were like, you wouldn't believe the type
of thing we were being trained to do over there, like.
Speaker 1: It's connected to Ultra and like.
Speaker 2: I imagine it is. Yeah, I mean it'd almost have
to be.
Speaker 1: There's something about it that I recognize, but I can't
put my finger on it.
Speaker 2: I bet it yeah, yeah, I can almost guarantee it was.
But uh yeah, and then like the Phoenix program thing,
if you read about it, it's just absolutely horrible the
type of stuff that people were being trained to do.
I believe it, and I think, I mean, you would
almost have to be like mk ultra or messed up
in the mind to actually do, you know, like just
dismembering someone. Well, they're a lot like that's tame compared
to some of the other stuff, Like it's really bad.
And uh and so, but a lot of the Moon trip,
like three of the Moon trips just coincide almost perfectly
with these big revelations about the Phoenix program because the
Phoenix program was totally unknown, and then like you know,
the information just kind of started trickling out and people
started coming forward and talking about being involved in it. Yeah,
and and like every time some like big revelation about
the Phoenix program happened, just so happened that there was
a Moon trip like right away, and it you know,
hogged up the media attention and and the whole Phoenix program.
I mean it eventually became known, But I mean that
could have you know, all the information about the Phoenix
program came out right at the start of the war.
You know, it could have just ended the war because
it's just brutal. What what some of the soldiers were
up to.
Speaker 1: Okay, excuse my ignorance. I don't know a whole lot
about the Vietnam War because I've had a lot of
research into World War Two, but not Vietnam. Yeah, so
why were we even there, Like, what was the point
of being in Vietnam?
Speaker 2: Communism? Yeah, supposedly, like to stop communism. The country was
divided in the northern and half northern and southern halves.
Half was communist, half wasn't. And yeah, I mean, I mean,
I think the real reason was drugs. You know there was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, drugs or oil.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, And so that's kind of the the
actual reason. You know, it seems it seems to be
the actual reason. But yeah, the official reason is how
we know, stopping communism. And then Russia, you know, had
Soviet Union, had people they supported, we had people they
we supported, and of course, yeah, and dragged on forever,
like you know, dragged on for almost a decade, and
I mean issues.
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons they killed jfk Is because
he didn't want to go to Vietnam. There's other reasons too,
but that was one of the reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, supposedly that he wanted to pull the troops
out and kind of end it right away, and they
didn't want that.
Speaker 1: So then what happened in nineteen seventy two that stopped
the Moon projects, Like.
Speaker 2: I mean supposedly it was scheduled. Supposedly it was scheduled.
So supposedly I think it was Apollo eighteen was always
scheduled as like the final Moon trip. That's what they claim.
Speaker 1: At least that makes sense.
Speaker 2: And then in the Vietnam War, I mean, the Vietnam
War basically ended. It didn't officially end for another few years,
but there was a peace agreement signed like literally a
month after the final apolloition. It was like a couple
of weeks. Yeah, it was right in nineteen seventy two,
and I like the still kind of kept people over there,
but started bringing a ton of people home, and then.
Speaker 1: Like like slowed down the war until it like, yeah,
come to a conclusion, unlike the Afghanistan situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, where they're.
Speaker 1: Just like we're all leaving right now, goodbye. Whoa Okay,
like we need to calm down. So I okay, that
makes sense. There's gonna be some reason that all a
Suddeny're like, oh, we don't need to go to the
Moon anymore, like.
Speaker 2: We're yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said, they supposedly
claimed that, you know, Paula eighteen was going to be
the last one. But I mean it's weird how literally
this peace agreement was signed two weeks after the final
Moon trip, like just almost instantly.
Speaker 1: So there, Now, what do you think about these Like
I think it's like private people that are like, we're
about to go to the Moon for the first time.
People are saying that you're saying the quiet part out loud.
Speaker 2: I know, Yeah, it's weird. I mean, like I said,
the weirdest thing about it is that I find is
just there's all these you know, smart people and rich
people and people like organizations like NASA with so much money,
and no one has been anywhere freaking near the Moon
for over fifty years, like not even like I said,
like one one thousandth of the distance that we need to.
Speaker 1: Travel, and how long has SpaceX been working on this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, I don't even really
follow the moon stuff all that, like the space stuff
and everything. I don't even really follow plus like you know,
space is it's weird. Not because like with the AI,
I mean, faking a moon trip would be the easiest thing. Yeah, ever,
you know you can fake that so easily.
Speaker 1: So when I see videos where people are like I
lose a phone call, Like I actually, this happens to me.
Outside of my house. There's like this like little it's
like this little goalie that I have to go through
to get into town. And every single time I go
into this little goalie, it I lose. I drop a
call every single time. Like I live literally the whole
rest of the trip. It's totally fine. I live twenty
minutes outside of town, so like it takes me a
minute ticket there. Well, I lose my call every single time. Well,
you're telling me that we had a phone call. All
the way to the moon is two hundred plus miles away.
Speaker 2: A thousand yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Like and we're we're just in the nineteen sixties, we're
making those phone calls.
Speaker 2: I know, it's it's hard to believe. Yeah, there's that
pretty well done picture. Like Richard Nixon, he's on like
a you know old school quartered phone. So yeah, it's
pretty ridiculous. But yeah, I mean just just the whole
like synchronicity with the line, the timing lining up the
Vietnam Wars is really interesting. And we another interesting thing
about the moon trips. We've only been to the Moon
with Richard Nixon as our president.
Speaker 1: Hm hmm.
Speaker 2: Every single one of the trips happened with him as
the president. Never been up there this guy anyone else. Yeah.
And Richard Nixon, you know, he's always kinda known as
a pretty slick, pretty uh tricky fellow.
Speaker 1: Tricky dick is what they call him, right, Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so what is you cover? All kinds of
different things? I asked you to come on and talk
about this particular topic, but there's a million topics that
you cover. What is one? I don' want to ask
your favorite because I hate when people ask me that
question because it's hard to pick, But like, what is
one that like really stands out to you?
Speaker 2: Oh? Boy? Well, I really like the Howard Hughes stuff,
But yeah, I don't know much about it.
Speaker 1: I don't know much about it at all, so I'd
love to hear it was fascinating.
Speaker 2: I mean, it really is fascinating. It's like the ultimate mystery,
the ultimate conspiracy, Like it blows everything else out of
the water, blows the JFK assassination out of the water,
like everything, like how you stuff is crazy Because so
he was like you know, during like the nineteen forties,
the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties, he was like Elon
Musk crossed with Leonardo DiCaprio crossed with like Bill Gates.
He was one of the richest people on earth.
Speaker 1: How did he get rich?
Speaker 2: He so his father actually invented a drill bit and
he patented the drill bit. And these drill bits were
the best drill bits out there. They were basically required
to drill into like really hard rock, and so they.
Speaker 1: Didn't actually do anything. He just inherited the money.
Speaker 2: He just inherited, well, he inherited the company, and he
grew the company. And and yeah, because he grew the company.
And I mean eventually there was like huge tool company,
Hughes Aerospace, He had like seven different huge medical foundation.
Like he had all these companies.
Speaker 3: Wow, h for the girls, right yeah, yeah, yeah, and
so he I mean he dated if you if you
go to his Wikipedia page.
Speaker 2: It lists out like every famous actress he dated during
that decade or so, and it's like everyone. I mean,
it's every A list actress. And yeah, I mean he was.
They were doing all this advanced work with like lasers,
because they had another company, Huge Aerospace, which was really
involved with like a lot of cutting edge like going
back to space, like kind of space technology. There were
the massive government contractor they're involved in like lasers, which
was like the really major thing back then. But anyway,
all throughout the nineteen forties, you know, he was just everywhere.
He flew around the world multiple times, and he set
a world speed record for flying around the world. So
he was like an avid flyer. He was a scratch golfer,
and he was a like borderline good enough to become
a professional golfer. And he was just always in the news,
always dating every women. And then in about nineteen fifty
five or so, he just vanished off the face of
the earth and he was never once seen in public
until nineteen until he died in nineteen seventy two. So
for the last seventeen years of his life, he was
never seen in public once.
Speaker 1: Don't trust all that. I don't trust him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so he went from constantly being on the
cover of magazines. I mean like when he set the
world speed record flying around the world, they threw this
big ticker to parade in New York City for him,
and thousands of people showed up, and he's you know,
waving and everything, just always photographed with every you know,
A list actress. Because he bought a movie studio. I mean,
it's just crazy all the stuff that he did. But
he bought a movie studio too, and so he bought
this studio, Rko Pictures, and he started making movies. He
made like the original Scarface movie, the al Pacino movie
from the seventies was based on they made a Scarface
back in you know, the nineteen thirties or so, and
so yeah, I mean he was just like I said,
he was like Leonardo DiCaprio crossed with Elon Musk a
cross with like Bill Gates. He was doing everything, everything,
and he was always in the news. And then like
nineteen fifty five vanished off the face of the earth. Wow,
and was wild. That's the big Yeah. I mean it
was claimed that it It's interesting because like initially it
was claimed that, oh, well, he got married. So there
was this actress, Jean Peters was her name. He married her, right,
there's a lot of mystery surrounding this marriage of theirs.
It's really strange. But they were never once photographed in
public together and never once appeared in public together or
anything like that.
Speaker 1: Was she like a well known actress at the time she.
Speaker 2: Was, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think she was like
super well known, but she was an actress, okay, And
so yeah, like right around that time he got married
to her. And initially the story was, oh, well, you know,
he's so happy in marriage and he you know, gave
up the lifestyle of going out in public, and so
that's why nobody ever saw him.
Speaker 1: I feel it feels like a drastic change from like
you're doing all these things, you're being photographed in all
these places, and all of a sudden you're like, I'm
married now, I'm never leaving my house again.
Speaker 2: Like oh yeah, I mean it's it's really And then
the story became like, oh, he's just really bashful, like
he's shy, you know, he just doesn't like publicity. I know,
I know. There's even a book written about him during
that time. It's called The bashful billionaire just about how
he you know's it's scary and it's crazy because there's
things like where he had to appear before there was
this big, big case invall because he also owned an
air I mean, it's just crazy, but he also owned
an airline. He owned TWA Airlines, which was like the
biggest airline at the.
Speaker 4: Time, and I know, it is just nuts, but there
there was like this kind of takeover attempt where this
group of bankers wanted to take over TWA or actually
they did kind of take it over, and then they
sued him because they claimed because he not only owned
the airline, but he.
Speaker 2: Owned the company that was making the planes that they bought,
you know, because he was aircraft.
Speaker 5: Company was making I know, yeah, And so they they
sued him, and he was being sued by this team
that took over TWA for like seventy I think it
was seventy million dollars okay, and a lot of money
especially back then, like tons of money.
Speaker 2: And so he had to appear in court. He went
to like the Supreme Court I think he had. He
was ordered to appear and the judge said, like, if
you don't, if he doesn't appear, and like his lawyers
would say, oh, well he'll, you know, just give a
statement or he doesn't want to appear, and they just said, okay,
the just said if he doesn't appear, they're going to
win by default and he's going to have to pay
this money. Oh man. He still didn't appear, and he
paid it.
Speaker 1: He was he was killed, absolutely, yeah, he killed that guy,
and then that he he died seventeen years later. That
I'm surprised I keep him a lie for that long well,
like like fictitiously alive for that long.
Speaker 2: Well. I think they kind of had to because it
was just such a massive empire and there were so
many people who were making just tons of money off
of it. I mean there's like if you look like
the people who are involved with the Howard Hughes Empire,
like super duper powerful people, like people who were you know,
like directors in the CIA and like FBI and all.
Speaker 1: These who took over after he died.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it was just it's kind of a
murky thing. There's one guy in particular who ran it
for a while. His name was Bob Mayhew, and he's
just a fascinating guy that that whole era like around
then was like just full of just really really interesting guys.
But this Bob Mayhew was a former FBI agent and
then he opened up what he called like a cutout agency,
which is basically, if the FBI or the CIA or
you know, some government organization has a job that they
want to get done, but they don't want to be
involved themselves because it involves some legal stuff, they go
to cutout agencies and they say, okay, we'll hire you
to and then they can you know, they're absolved of
being responsible, you know. And then if they're questioned about, oh,
did you you know we're involved in this, as they
know because they hired somebody else to do it. So
he hired up yeah, exactly. And so he started up
a company named Robert A. Mayhew and associates. So Rama
or Ama, and it was said that Bob Mayhew was
the guy that Easton hunt and Mission Impossible was based on.
Speaker 1: I I've read about this guy or I've mentioned him
in an episode. I didn't go deep into him, but
I like he was He's important.
Speaker 2: He's really important. Well, he was pretty heavily involved in
JFK assassination too. Apparently hmmm, yeah, because he had he
was kind of like the liaison between the government and
the underworld. That's that's what it kind of seems like.
So he had all these connections with like Johnny Roselli
and like Sam g and Khanna and a bunch of
like the really major big time gangsters from that era.
And then so because like Bob Mayhew was really involved
in the plot to kill Fidel Castro as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I read about it in a book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be that because he was the one
they went to and said, Okay, we want to put
together a team to take out Castro, and then he
reached out to you know, the mafia, and they kind
of put together a team. And but yeah, he uh
jfk Castro. And then he just happened to be the
guy who take took over the Howard Hughes Empire. And
then he worked with this team. They were called the
Mormon Mafia, and these were seven Mormon guys who no
one really knew anything about, and they were the only people,
it was said, they were the only people who ever
saw Howard Hughes during these final seventeen years of his life.
Because Bob Mayhew was running the Howard Hughes Empire. He
never met Howard Hughes a single time. They never met
him a single time. Yes, I mean, it's it's so
weird when you look back on it now, it's like, wow,
this is so obvious, Like how did people?
Speaker 1: It makes you wonder what he did to get murdered,
Like was he gonna pull out from like like contracting
with the government or something. Was he gonna like something?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean what's interesting is there's another video
I did that kind of got me into the Howard
Hughes thing, and it's about this document called the Gemstone File.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: The Gemstone File is this document from it was written
in like the mid nineteen seventies, but it kind of
covers the era from like the nineteen forties up until
like the late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies, And so
what the Gemstone File. It talks a lot about the
Howard Hughes disappearance, like that's one of the main he
talks about the JFK assassination. Basically, it was this Gemstone
File was a document written by a guy who claimed
he was like majorly connected to some very rich, powerful
people who would feed him information about the true story
of what was going on in the world, and so
he would kind of relay that information and put it
into this this thing that he called the Gemstone File,
and supposedly this guy who wrote it was also he
was he could create, He learned a way to create
artificial gemstones and lab and these gemstones that he would create,
these diamonds basically that he would create, were like the
utmost quality, like they're really way better than everything else.
And the Howard Hughes Empire was really heavily into lasers
at the time, and so one of the really main
components of lasers and laser beams is diamonds. You need
diamond you need really cure diamonds. And so he started
working with the Hues Organization, and that's how he met
a lot of really high up people in the huge
organization who started telling him like, hey, something really weird
is going on here.
Speaker 1: Without it, he is, it feels scientology of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Well they're.
Speaker 1: Like, Okay, you're gone now, but you're not dead yet.
Well is convenient for us?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. There's there's a number of like really rich, billionaire,
powerful people who've kind of vanished it's kind of I
have a list of a few I was thinking about
making a video just kind of a compilation of billionaires
who haven't been seeing in like thirty years. It's there's
a couple like that. It's weird.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing like when they do that with
like like uh artists and like actors and people that
are making them a lot of money, like Tupac right
or like like Tupac one of the and I did
like a whole series on like fake deaks like Elvis
Michael Jackson like that. You have these people that are
like making them a lot of money, and so they're like, well,
how can we make more money off them if we
kill them? Yeah, and we make like we make their
music more valuable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But going back to the Gemstone file, then, so
what the guy wrote his name is Bruce Roberts. But
what he talks about with the Howard Hughes thing, what
he says happened was that Howard Hughes was kidnapped and
his empire was taken over by this guy Aristotle on
Nassas and Aristotle Asses is the guy who married Jackie
Kennedy after JFK died, and yeah, and Aristotle on I mean,
this whole era is like full of these really fascinating people.
Aristotle on Asses is like he might be the most
fascinating one. Like he is. He lived on a private
island in the Mediterranean Sea, just this amazing, amazing island.
He owned the biggest yacht in the world, just dated
all these women and then then married Jackie Kennedy. And
then so what the gem Stunt file says is what
him marrying Jackie Kennedy was was it was almost like
a flex because he was behind the jfk assassination because
JFK was how Onassis made all his money. He was
opium and so if JFK wanted to pull out of
you know, Vietnam, it would have cost a Nassas a
lot of money. So he had him killed. And then
I guess, I mean, the Gymson file claims it's an
old mafia rule where if somebody screws you on a deal,
because apparently on Nassas and Kennedy had a deal where
you know, they would allowed to happen, and then Kennedy
screwed him over on the deal and welched on it.
And so apparently it's an old mafia rule where if
a guy Welch was on a deal, you kill him
and you take his girl. So that's what because Oasis
they claim is like really he was like the head
of them wafia, like the world wide head of the mafia,
the most powerful guy, and so that anyway, they claimed
that what happened with the Howard Hughes Empire was that
Onassas took it over. He kidnapped Howard Hughes. He became
basically the front guy for the huge organization, and he
kept him as the Gymstone file claims Aristotle nass kept
him as a prisoner on his island. Wow, Yeah, for
like decade, for like a decade, which is crazy because
they needed they needed to keep him around in case
like the whole thing blew up and people demanded to say, hey,
we have to see evidence that Howard Hughes is alive.
He kept him as a prisoner, kept him alive.
Speaker 1: It's not a time for that would have been like
when he was called for in front of the judge,
like for the court case that he didn't show up for,
Like that would have been the time for them to
be like, look he's still but yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you would have spilled
the beans and told everything or But what's funny is
like the whole this whole thing with Howard Hughes and
on asses, it really mirrors the plot of a Bond movie. Boy,
I think it's uh, Edmonds are Forever. I believe it's
that one because that has to do because then, like
later in life, one of the straight just aspects of
the Howard Hughes thing is he moved to Las Vegas.
Howard Hughes quote unquote moved to Las Vegas. This was
in the seventies, so this was the point where no
one had seen in him for you know, fifteen years.
But supposedly Howard Hughes moved to Las Vegas and he
just started buying up every casino in Vegas. And so
you know, most likely what it was was he was
being used as a front for like mobsters buying it up.
But yeah, well yeah that too. But yeah, there's a
there's a Bond movie where there's a Las Vegas billionaire
named Willard White, so you know, the same initials, and
he's kidnapped by Blofeld who's the main bad guy, and
blowfelt has all these similarities with a Nassis. Blowfold also
lives on a private island. He has this really high
tech yacht fleet. On Nassis had this high tech yacht fleet.
They were both oil man like. They got a lot
of similarities. And then and then yeah, it is weird.
And then like you know, there's always been rumors that
like Ian Fleming actually here he wasn't in my sixth
agent like he but there's rumors that like because he
was so high up, it's a you know, well connected spy.
He based the plots of the Bond movies on like
what was actually going on in the world, right, and
so oh yeah, oh yeah. And then the guy there's
this guy, Cubby Broccoli, Albert Broccoli. He was the producer
of the Bond movies. He was a close friend to
Howard Hughes for a long time as well before he disappeared.
So there's like kind of these connections. And really like
the plot of the Diamonds Are Forever, I mean, it
just mirrors the Gemstone File. It's it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: That's so odd. Yeah, I mean everything's so odd. I
feel like we keep finding odd things.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, especially that era, like the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: Like they were getting away with everything during that time,
the sixties, the seventies, like even into the eighties a
little bit, like they were really it was the Internet
really screwed them.
Speaker 2: Up, it did. Yeah, but then they.
Speaker 1: Also like kind of screwed themselves up with like COVID,
Like they brought so many people into the conspiracy world
with COVID right now, Yeah, you guys really stumbled, didn't you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, That's kind of what I focus on on
my channel because I feel like there's just so many
stories from like the seventies and the eighties and the
sixties that like happened, and then they just kind of
got forgotten about because there wasn't an Internet to kind
of dissect them or talk about them more.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, there was was, you know, news broadcasts and even
back theniel like CNN only started broadcasting in like nineteen
seventy nine, I think it was or nineteen eighty. So
even like in the seventies, there was a half hour
news broadcast at night. That was it. There wasn't a
twenty four hour news channel, right.
Speaker 1: What I was gonna say is like twenty four hour
news channels did not exist like you did. Not have
access and you didn't have access to world news either,
no coming in real time as they are now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, it's nuts and uh yeah, basically magazines,
newspapers and a half hour news broadcast every night, and
that was like it. So there's so many like just
really bizarre things that happened back then that have kind
of been forgotten about. And I like, you know, just
kind of finding obscure things like that to kind of
focus on on my channel. And you know, I'll do
big things like moon landings and things like that occasionally,
but I liked the little obscure ones as well.
Speaker 1: So I do too think like the big the big
things bring people in, but they stay for the little things,
the things that, like you won't you want to think
to look into or like to look up. Oh totally yeah, yeah,
I call them. I call them little conspiracies because like
in my mind, I'm like, you got the big ones
and then you got the little ones, and the little
ones are not like smaller, yeah, less known.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean what's crazy is how many, how how
they're all connected? Yes, all the same people popping up
like that Bob Mayhew I was talking about that guy.
Speaker 1: Is in everything. I swear I know him from something
and it's not what you're talking about. It's something completely different.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah he was. He's got a crazy story.
There's so many other other people like that too, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's wild. So where can people find you?
Speaker 2: Uh well, primarily YouTube, so control alt history, like control
all delete control histories and the channel, and then I'm
on Instagram and Twitter as well, and on Rumble, but
I not the best about posting on there as of
right now that I'm on Patreon as well, so yeah,
YouTube just kind of yeah, yeah, all the major ones.
Speaker 1: Perfect, go on. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, this is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot and so I really appreciate it.
I like, I like not knowing everything, especially when I'm
talking to something. I'm like, oh yes, like tell me
so much about that, like I want to. Oh yeah,
So I really appreciate it. Thanks so much. We'll have
you back for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to come back until next week.
Speaker 1: My friends, stay skeptical and we will see you all then. Hey. Friends.
The rabbit Hole is an independent podcast, written, posted, and
produced by me Danny Mercy. Special thanks to Lindsay for
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