WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.040 There is a consorttion of banks that's looking at launching 2 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:04.799 like top seven currencies, a stable points on a blockchain. 3 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:07.240 There's a tremendous amount of innovation that's going on in 4 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:10.720 tokenized deposit and can tokenize deposits become an inner bank 5 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:11.679 settlement mechanism. 6 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:13.960 Being in the crypto industry and building from the stable 7 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:16.039 coin standpoint, I think you have a head start, so 8 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:18.879 hopefully your product wins here and you know, with the 9 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:20.000 collaboration of the. 10 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:21.760 Crypto industry, that's what I'm betting on. 11 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:29.679 This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is 12 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:32.759 a great crypto platform that makes it easy to buy, sell, 13 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:37.679 and stake crypto assets. Uphold has over three hundred plus cryptocurrencies, 14 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.600 including bitcoin in all the top all coins, and they 15 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:45.159 offer a crypto staking on over nineteen crypto assets. I've 16 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:47.679 been a user of the platform for many years. They 17 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.920 are safe and reliable, they don't commingle or lend out 18 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:54.320 your crypto funds, and they are one hundred percent reserve. 19 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.479 You can review their transparency report. Uphold also offers an 20 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:01.320 amazing rewards program where you can earn up the five 21 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:05.000 point two five percent on stable coins. This rewards program 22 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:08.079 also allows you to get twenty four hour early access 23 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:11.359 to new tokens that they list, and to participate, you 24 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:13.840 just simply have to open the app once per month, 25 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:16.959 deposit fifty dollars once per month, and trade fifty dollars 26 00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:19.599 once per month. And the stable coins that they support 27 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:22.480 includes Ripples, r l USD. You can earn up to 28 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.719 five percent on that stable coin and five point two 29 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:29.159 five percent on USBC. So if you'd like to learn 30 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:31.799 more about Uphold and all the great services they offer, 31 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.799 visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into 32 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:38.599 the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and 33 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:41.719 joining me is Kevin Latinity, who is the CEO of 34 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:44.680 Borderliss XYZ. Kevin. Great to have you back on. 35 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:46.879 Hey, Thanks Tony, it's great to be on the show. 36 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:48.319 It's always great to see you, Kevin. 37 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.719 Some big announcements coming out from Borderalists, and in addition, 38 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:54.519 I want to get your take on what's happening with 39 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.239 the stable coin market. There's been some big updates around 40 00:01:57.319 --> 00:01:59.400 black Rock and much more. Let's kick it off with 41 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.760 the big news run Borderalist Benchmark tell us about this launch. 42 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:07.319 We are We are super excited about this. The more 43 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:12.039 that we've been spending time with non crypto native companies, 44 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:18.000 so you know, the traditional PSPs, larger corporates, the FinTechs, 45 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.280 et cetera, et cetera, and we've been spreading, you know, 46 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:24.919 the good word of the gospel of stable coins right, better, faster, cheaper, 47 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:29.199 et cetera. One thing that has become really clear is 48 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:34.159 that there isn't a great benchmark for the FX rates 49 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:37.159 and stable coins. If I think about traditional efs, I 50 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:39.560 can go to Bloomberg. If I think about crypto, I 51 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:41.280 can go to coin market Cap. But there's all these 52 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:43.800 different data sources about what is the price of an asset. 53 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:45.840 But if I think about the rates in the stable 54 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:49.800 coin world, that doesn't exist. And the larger and larger 55 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:53.280 FinTechs we've been talking to, they ask an incredibly good question, 56 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:57.039 which is our stable coins actually cheaper than traditional fiat 57 00:02:57.120 --> 00:02:59.199 rails right. And there's a lot of people on the 58 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.560 camp that say raw, raw stable coins better, faster, cheaper 59 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:05.400 all day long. I don't think that's quite true. If 60 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:09.199 you look at markets like ust Europe, Swift settles, T zero, 61 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.039 it's the most traded effects pair in the world. Those 62 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.960 spreads are incredibly tight, et cetera, et cetera. But if 63 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.719 you look at like South Africa to Brazil, for sure, 64 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:21.280 stable coins are a giant cost savings there. Right. But 65 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:24.319 the question is like, how do we actually answer that 66 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:28.080 fundamental question? And you can go to an exchange, right, 67 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.520 you could look on binance, or you can look somewhere else. 68 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:32.639 You can go to an orchestrator. You can go to 69 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:35.439 a bit so, a yellow Car, a trace Finance, and 70 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:39.000 a Venia honey Coin someone like that, but you only 71 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:42.319 get to see their rates. And what we feel like 72 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.479 the industry is missing is this credibly neutral benchmark that 73 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:48.000 is able to aggregate across all these different pockets of 74 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:51.319 liquidity and say, Okay, this is the mean, this is 75 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:55.439 the median, this is the standard deviation, this is the minims, 76 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:58.360 this is the byside, this is the cell side, et cetera. 77 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:02.280 And what we realized is that we have a very 78 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:07.199 interesting connectivity because our core product is connecting PSPs orchestrators, 79 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:10.560 et cetera, into a whole network of global counterparties for 80 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:13.599 on and off ramps, that we're actually seeing all these 81 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:16.839 different transactions and all these transactions being you're saying all 82 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.879 this different FX rates data in neur real time across 83 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:23.480 seventy different countries from dozens of different providers, and we've said, 84 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.199 wait a minute, maybe we should make this data available 85 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.639 to everybody. And that's the genesis of the borderless benchmark. 86 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:34.560 So already live that that borderless doxygs list benchmark. You 87 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:37.199 can go and this is super early. I will caveat 88 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:41.879 with that. We're big in you know, building public. I 89 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:44.439 will tell you it's our beta version. Alex will tell 90 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:47.199 you it's the zero point zero zero zero zero zero 91 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.040 zero zero zero one. You know, it's not pulling from 92 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:51.600 all the data and the network yet, it's pulling from 93 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:53.680 maybe ten percent of the data, and over the next 94 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.560 few months we're going to make it twenty percent, sixty percent, 95 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:01.519 et cetera, et cetera. We really want to encourage as 96 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:03.759 many people who want to be part of the benchmark 97 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:07.519 to contribute their data and their rates, and we've got 98 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:10.079 a process for that on the website where group will participate. 99 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:13.240 But that's the fundamental question, right is what is the 100 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:17.040 FX rate? What is USDC to BRL, what is USDT 101 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.240 t K. Yes, that's not answerable. Now, finally, with the 102 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.160 Border's benchmark, people have a place where they can go. 103 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:25.759 The basic version of this is completely free. It's on 104 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.600 the website. Anyone can go click on it, see the data, 105 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:30.839 see the spread, start to get an understanding of what's 106 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:33.800 going on. And then for borderless customers, we're going to 107 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.439 build a lot more of this data into the intelligence 108 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.120 layer of the platform and be able to understand, Oh, 109 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.160 what is the USDC price versus the USDBT price and 110 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:44.240 what corridors do I have an advantage for using this 111 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:47.319 stable over that stable? Are there differences and rates biaus 112 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:50.680 of liquidity between different chains, all those sorts of things. 113 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:53.079 You know, what about business payments versus consumer payments? What 114 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.759 about first party versus third party? Right, not every provider 115 00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.800 does third party payments. If I need third party payments, 116 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.160 how does that change the depth of liquidity and therefore 117 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:05.959 the FS price answers to all these questions is what 118 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.720 we're trying to brent to solve for. And you know, 119 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:10.839 we've got a few early folks that have taken a 120 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:13.360 look at it, from some of the largest payments companies 121 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.879 in the world that I've said, this is incredible, and 122 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.240 we need to show this to like three teams internally 123 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:21.279 right away, so we're pretty jazzed. But this, to us 124 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:25.879 is that incredibly neutral, community driven effort to say, not 125 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.519 stable coin provider one versus two, like let's go battle 126 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:32.759 over FX rates, but stable cooin industry. As we try 127 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.240 to bring on flows from TRADFI and PSPs and corporates 128 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:38.720 and banks, we've got to be able to give them 129 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:42.079 these basic building blocks that they're used to getting from 130 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.240 traditional payment rails, and this is our first step. But 131 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:50.879 trying to kind of coalesce community center of mass by 132 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:52.519 providing all this data in one place. 133 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.560 Kevin, that's really profound. I kid you not. Last week 134 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:57.959 I was talking to someone about this the FX markets 135 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:01.720 and how stable coins can make it better with the 136 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.959 instant settlement and the real time transactions and the blockchain. 137 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:09.000 But to your point, this facet of the infrastructure is missing, 138 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:11.800 and I feel having this data out there will help 139 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:14.959 boost adoption and stable coins because people need to know 140 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.720 all these things you mentioned, but there's no central place 141 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:20.639 to get it. But you have this solution now. 142 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:23.519 We've started it right, I would hardly say it's the 143 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:26.959 solution we are you know, about ten percent of the 144 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:29.720 bordless network. Data is now being incorporated that will grow. 145 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.800 But we've started a place to have this and our 146 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:38.319 ask to the rest of our industry is come help us. Right, 147 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:41.879 this isn't a borderless thing. This is a stable coin 148 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.959 industry wide thing, right, and we're just we're the connector 149 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.079 here that is already in so many of these different 150 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:51.199 conversations that we're able to be a distribution channel for 151 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:54.160 all this information. So please, you know, come contribute to 152 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:56.839 the benchmark. Let us help you distribute all that out, 153 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.000 you know, into the PSP's corporates and orchestra in the world, 154 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:04.800 and let's create a very very real stable coin FX 155 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:08.639 benchmark that can answer these sorts of questions for the 156 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.959 Fortune fifties, for the largest banks, for the largest payments 157 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.040 companies on planet Earth, and get them to adopt stable points. 158 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:19.079 Because if that happens, the tide that will rise from 159 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:22.120 that is going to make everybody who's contributing to this 160 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:23.879 industry so so much more about. 161 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.600 I love that you're open to collaboration and working with 162 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.000 the rest of the industry to get more data as 163 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.559 well and make it you know, you just have more 164 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:36.559 points of views and plugins of information and that it's free. 165 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:42.759 That's that's awesome, that it's creating open access and dumb question, 166 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.480 do you have to talk to the likes of a 167 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:48.679 Circle or a Tether or not necessarily you just need 168 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:50.519 to work with the payment companies and the banks and 169 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:51.120 so forth. 170 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:53.559 We're more focus on the payment companies and the banks 171 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:56.480 and so forth. You know, obviously we would love community 172 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:59.120 support from the likes of Circle and Tether and others. 173 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.799 I'm sure they have a lot of very interesting data 174 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:03.840 that can be contributed to the benchmark that would help 175 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:06.720 us all make something a much much stronger product and 176 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:10.559 therefore bring a lot more folks into our industry. But 177 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.360 ultimately we're starting with kind of the banks and payments 178 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:16.720 companies and those folks. And I'm a big believer that 179 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:21.120 that open networks always win. That's what we're trying to do. 180 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:26.519 We're trying to not necessarily create and own something for 181 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.639 our benefit. We're trying to be the community organizers of 182 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.919 something for everyone's benefit. 183 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.120 You know, Kevin, this reminds me, and you can correct 184 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:35.759 me if I'm wrong here, but it reminds me of 185 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.200 some of the indexes and the products and aggregate data 186 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:41.879 that Bloomberg and the S and P Global and these 187 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:44.799 folks have created for trad fi assets. Is it kind 188 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:45.679 of akin to that. 189 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.240 A one hundred percent agree. You know, when when we 190 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:51.279 think about what is an FX rate, kind of bloom 191 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:54.960 Bloomberg mid Market spot rates come to mind as an 192 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.759 index and the benchmark of what FX rate data should be. 193 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.200 And maybe, you know, one day they internalize this and 194 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:04.879 they own the fx rates benchmark, and we will have 195 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:07.799 failed as an open network. But I think that this 196 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:12.200 information is so powerful and growing the stable coin industry 197 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:17.440 that it can't be internalized by a gatekeeper. It's got 198 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:19.960 to be coalesced as a community effort with data from 199 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.279 all sorts of different people and then made available to 200 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.399 the world. And that's kind of why we're taking this 201 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:28.080 open network approach. And you know, maybe will be proved wrong. 202 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:30.240 Maybe someone like a Bloomberg will come in and put 203 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:32.679 it behind a two hundred thousand dollars a year subscription 204 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:36.840 and you know, try to own the data versus making 205 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:39.360 it available to the community. But we'd like to think 206 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:45.279 that the crypto ethos of builders and a decentralization is 207 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:47.519 strong enough that if we're going to have a stable 208 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:51.360 coin related benchmark. It should be a credibly neutral, open 209 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:55.519 standard versus Yeah, one corporate company's walled garden. 210 00:10:56.360 --> 00:10:58.960 Oh absolutely, And I do think you have a head 211 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:02.320 start obviously, being in the crypto industry and building from 212 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.600 the stable cooin standpoint. And I don't know if these 213 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.159 folks are I think they're still trying to find their 214 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:08.440 way in the market, but I think you have a 215 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:12.200 head start, so hopefully your product wins here, and you know, 216 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:14.200 with the collaboration of the crypto. 217 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:17.039 Industry, I don't think Borderless beats Bloomberg by any way, 218 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.720 shape or form, but I think the stable coin community 219 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:23.360 can beat Bloomberg. Yeah, and that's what I'm betting on absolutely. 220 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.759 In regards to innovations that are happening in the stable 221 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:29.399 coin space, you know, there's folks creating stable coins for 222 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:34.120 the Euro and other disease and you may have already 223 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:37.559 addressed this indirectly, but will this product be able to 224 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.279 capture that as well? So let's say eventually there's a 225 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:44.879 digital I don't know, yen or something whatever, and people are, 226 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.559 you know, going between a US dollar back stable coin 227 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.240 and a digital yen. Will this platform be able to 228 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.360 track all that exactly. 229 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.399 So, right now, we're starting with USDC and USDT, and 230 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.919 we're trapping both of those tokens against a bunch of 231 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:03.960 primarily emerging market VA currencies. Right, USDC against USD is 232 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:11.399 not necessarily super interesting. But USDC and USDT against like BRL, MXM, AESZRE, 233 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.039 Argentinian paysos like those are the very interesting things condition 234 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.840 with like APAC currencies as well that are coming. And 235 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:21.919 then we want to start to add more stable points, right, 236 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:23.600 we want to start to look at like okay, USDG 237 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:27.519 and a USD. And as we're in this expansionary environment 238 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:30.720 post genius app, you know, what does that look like 239 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.440 for the corporate white label tokens as well? Right, if 240 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.919 there's an Amazon USD, what does that look like compared 241 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.840 to USDC or to USDT. That's really the core of 242 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:41.559 credible neutrality. And then we want to get into the 243 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.559 euro stable point pairs. We want to get into the 244 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:47.039 other stable point pairs. You know, my my goal, if 245 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:49.879 I could wish for anything, you know, five years from now, 246 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:55.879 is to have this open, credibly neutral layer that's able 247 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:59.840 to ingest data from all of these different fragmented market 248 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.679 participants and give the treasury team at you know the 249 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:09.639 world's largest companies, one single source where they can go 250 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:14.240 and they can do real, live rate comparisons across their 251 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:19.080 entire treasury program, find cost optimizations and make very compelling 252 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.360 arguments back to the CFO that says, hey, this is 253 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:26.320 you know, the Bloomberg Fiat mid market rate superimposed on 254 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:29.360 top of the stable point market data. And when we're 255 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:32.120 managing our US Euro treasuries, we should keep doing that 256 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.919 the way we've been doing it. But when we want 257 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:35.919 to go and deploy capital to the market's A, B 258 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.200 and C, we're actually going to achieve twelve basis point 259 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.759 average cost savings, which at our scale saves US millions 260 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:45.159 of dollars. And now that's the argument to go and 261 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.200 use stable coins versus oh they're trendy. I see our 262 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:51.960 competitors do it like actually giving that power to those 263 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.519 treasury teams to go take the business arguments, quantify it, 264 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:58.320 and take it to the CFO where he looks at 265 00:13:58.360 --> 00:13:59.919 it or she looks at it and says, oh, wow, 266 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.399 well this is a no brainer. We're about to say 267 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.519 three four million dollars a year, go do it? Are 268 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:07.279 you able to tell us some of the names of 269 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:09.080 the folks that you're going to be pulling this data from. 270 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:10.960 I know some of this stuff might be under NDA 271 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.399 and you probably can't, but I have to ask let 272 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:19.320 me answer your question indirectly. So the data that we're 273 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:23.720 showing is all anonymized for a lot of reasons NDAs 274 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:26.840 other things of that nature. But we do make the 275 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:32.480 Borderless network members public on our website Borderless likexpizing slash ecosystem, 276 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:34.879 and you can see all the different auto off proadors 277 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:36.720 that we're connected to. You can see this like global 278 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:39.720 map of the rails coverage and currency coverages and things 279 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.320 like that. So while I can't directly answer your question, 280 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.080 if you go and you look at who is on 281 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.120 Borderless's network, Borderless's network feeds the benchmark and you can 282 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.279 get you know, some indirect sense of where this is 283 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.039 coming from. 284 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:56.720 Got it? Yeah, that makes sense. So folks go check 285 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:00.279 out Bordalless's partners thest. 286 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.480 That'll give you some sets of it. Oh for sure, 287 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.679 not every partner is there. It's about ten percent. Like 288 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:08.240 I said, it will grow more and more and we 289 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.799 will add more partners as well. So not only will 290 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:14.279 more partners be included, but also we'll have new partners 291 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:17.600 that are joining. So this is you know, there's an 292 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.080 old saying in kind of startup world, which is, if 293 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.759 you're not embarrassed by your product launch, you didn't launch 294 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:28.960 it early enough. I think I am decently embarrassed by 295 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.039 how kind of like raw and basic this is. So 296 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.080 I think it's the wrong time to put this out 297 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:35.200 in the world and then ask people to help us 298 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:35.559 make it. 299 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:39.159 Absolutely and how real time is the data? Is there 300 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.000 any lag on that front? 301 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:47.679 We snapshots the rates across the network providers on an 302 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:51.000 hourly basis, and then we cash that and then we 303 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:53.120 turn that into more of like a daily rage. So 304 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:55.440 right now we have the last thirty days of data available. 305 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.080 That's what we really wanted to launch with, was like 306 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.480 a month of historical information of the very least, so 307 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:02.440 you could start to see some trends. Sure, and it's 308 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:04.720 interesting because you can see days where the buy cell 309 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:08.039 spread widens, days of titans. You can see volatility increase 310 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:10.559 and decrease even with a month's worth of data. It's 311 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:15.159 actually quite interesting at this point, and you know, part 312 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.559 of part of what's important to us is trying to 313 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.159 figure out. I'm not going to show you three thousand 314 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:24.080 different data points at some point hour by hour. So 315 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:27.039 for you know, maybe last seven days and last thirty days, 316 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:30.440 we'll show you hourly snapshots, and then for older history 317 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.120 we'll compress it to like a daily average or something 318 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.559 like that, so that you're also not overwhelmed by the 319 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:37.919 volume of data. And then part of what we're thinking 320 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.360 about is, Okay, if that's the approachable answer, which I 321 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:43.159 think it is, then what does it look like for 322 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:46.360 like analysts and you know, other folks who want to 323 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:51.399 go deeper. How do we balance consumer friendly and approachable 324 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.759 on one side with then maybe some sort of like 325 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.840 an expert mode or analyst mode on the other side 326 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.759 that lets you add a lot more reporting that lets 327 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.440 you out data more granularly. How do we give you 328 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.319 API access to the benchmarks that you can really pull 329 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.559 this into your in house you know, data analytics suites. 330 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:10.559 And there's a ton that we want to do with 331 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.880 this that we think would really benefit the industry. 332 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:17.200 It's exciting, man, and I think certainly a core part 333 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.400 of the infrastructure that's needed for stable coin adoption. I 334 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:22.960 love it. You know, while I am not involved in 335 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.960 FX at all, or you know, any of these things 336 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.880 I am really fascinated by. It's like, I want to 337 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.880 look at the data and see what's what's moving, what's happening, 338 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.000 and even you know, aligned at with maybe geopolitical things 339 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.400 that are happening and how that affects markets. 340 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:42.640 I think, you know, we are not an analyst company. 341 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.759 We are a technology infrastructure company. But I would love 342 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.359 to see some market analysts and others kind of partner 343 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.480 with us on this benchmark and start to be able 344 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.359 to look at wait a minute, this was the real 345 00:17:55.400 --> 00:18:01.240 time impact on USDC. Something else ff rates when Trump 346 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.960 announced the China tariffs as an example, right, like, what 347 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.720 did that do to the dollar? And specifically you know 348 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.039 we have fs stuff around this, but what did it 349 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.720 do to the stable coins that are dollar backed compared 350 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.279 to all these other global currencies? And I think this 351 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.000 could feed a ton of interesting insights and research and 352 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.640 things of that nature. And I hope that there's some 353 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.720 very talented researchers who end up using this and creating 354 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:25.640 these insights because I would love to see them. 355 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.240 Absolutely great stuff, man. And you know, on the other 356 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.759 side of the business, how are things going with talking 357 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.960 to different folks about adopting stable coins. Obviously we're talking 358 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:39.240 posts Genius Act being signed into law. You know, it 359 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:41.039 takes time for certain things to be implemented. But how 360 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:44.200 are folks feeling about stable coins? I think historically the 361 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.400 biggest challenge with stable coins has been regulatory risk, and 362 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.599 some of that certainly exists. 363 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.680 Right. Some of the conversations that we've had with people 364 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:54.680 are great. The regulatory climate under this administration is very favorable. 365 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:58.279 But what will the regulatory climate look like under the 366 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:03.000 next administration? And if these people heavily adopt stable coins 367 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.160 and the next administration is unfavorable, does that put a 368 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:09.680 target on their back three four years from now that 369 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:12.359 they're going to regret. So there is still a little 370 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.359 bit of regulatory uncertainty, I would say from people that 371 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.160 we talked to, But by and large, this is the 372 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:20.680 unlock that people have been waiting for. Right The banks 373 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:23.160 that we're talking to were thinking about bank consortiums they 374 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.839 issue stable coins. The large corporates that we're talking to 375 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.079 were thinking about how can they issue a stable coin 376 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.200 into their own existing user base, distribution base, you know, 377 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.000 B to B vendor supplier base, et cetera. A lot 378 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:38.359 of the large FinTechs are talking about how do they 379 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.640 leverage stable coins and lights Bark had a phenomenal partner 380 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.279 summit last week and as part of that they had 381 00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:50.160 a bunch of you know, major fintech CEOs, including the 382 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:53.519 CEO of Sofi, and he was talking about the stable 383 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.039 coin that Sofi wants to launch. Right, so we're going 384 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.519 to see this giant explosion of more and more stable coins, 385 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.680 and that's all Genius Act based. Genius Act is that 386 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:09.039 regulatory unlocked along with the new SEC policies or kind 387 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.480 of the new SEC leadership with kind of Gensler stepping 388 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:16.480 out and FDIC in Federal Reserve leadership saying okay, you 389 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.480 know the bank regulators are okay with stable coins. Genius 390 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.720 Act gives you a compliant issuance framework and the SEC 391 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.799 isn't going to randomly decide that everything on a blockchain 392 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:26.640 is the security and come tabon with the wells noticed 393 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.720 and those three things combining are starting to enable people 394 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.160 like so Far to very credibly say we're looking at 395 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.519 a stable coin and there's a ton of plans that 396 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:37.559 we have for what we want to do with it, 397 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.079 and that that is really cool. 398 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.839 Yeah, it's exciting, man. Certainly folks are more optimistic. They 399 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.559 want to build, people want to innovate, and Kevin just 400 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.720 on Thursday, I think just yesterday, black Rock announced they're 401 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.480