Speaker 1: Welcome to the Reality Realm with your hosts, Irene Allen
and Mark Johnson. Good evening everyone, morning, afternoon, whatever time
zone you're in. Welcome to the Reality Realm with Irene
Allen and myself, Mark Johnson. Irene, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm fine?
Speaker 1: More Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Oh that's good. Then we're both good.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the end of the show. Thanks everybody. Betraying guy.
Oh no, no, no, no, we don't get off that easy.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, how.
Speaker 1: Was your going so far?
Speaker 2: That's my week? Wet, I'm more wet and it's been
bloom and wet here.
Speaker 1: Mark here too. We're giving the remnants of that tropical
storm that hit Florida coming up the coast.
Speaker 2: Lots of flooding, Oh you all, But will we getting
the remnants of I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, another storm that comes around, you know, And
when our storm passes through, it's going to come around
over Greenland and Iceland and then drop down on your side.
That's right.
Speaker 2: But when it drops down here, apparently we're going to
get hot weather. If I'm not mistaken. If I'm not mistaken, anyway,
they'd say that the sun is going to come out
next week yay. Well, yeah, happy happy times. Rock spicking is.
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, cheeky devil. I was talking. I was
talking about me. Oh you again, frightening.
Speaker 2: Do you know you've got Roman feet?
Speaker 1: I have Roman feet, You got Roman feet.
Speaker 2: I've got Egyptian feet, long and slim. You've got a
couple of plates to meet there.
Speaker 1: Darling, they're not that bad.
Speaker 2: I saw them.
Speaker 1: Why, but you know I'm only US size ten, US
size ten.
Speaker 2: What's that making in the UK?
Speaker 1: My? Here it's by inches, so it's ten inches ten inches?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's ten inches. Speak See isn't it.
Speaker 1: Like twelve or fourteen? Means? Are big feet? Water ski
on those? I've done that before. I have barefoot water skied,
which is unusual, to say the least that I always
crashed and burned.
Speaker 2: Did okay? You didn't know? You didn't want?
Speaker 1: No? Did not have.
Speaker 2: Speed, did you? Darling?
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 2: You didn't get up enough speed?
Speaker 1: Oh? The boat had enough speed. It's just that if
you're not in the right position, the next thing you know,
you're doing a forward face plant straight into the water
at high speed.
Speaker 2: Well you're wearing bunchie smugglers. What never mind? Only the
English would know what that means.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2: So I can't do anything about this. I have a dog.
She's twenty years old. She's blind, she's deaf, Pipper. She
has cancer. But she eats like a pig and still
finds her way right through the house from here to
the utility room to get her food twice a day.
And but she's had a couple of fits lately, and
I have to have her clothes. So if you hear
a yapping, oh, it's not yapping, just a single bark
goes off every now and then, that's her call in me.
Speaker 1: I think I'm hearing Gurdie in the next room.
Speaker 2: No, that's not gurdy only it sound like snoring.
Speaker 1: Now it was like a yap, that's Pepper. Oh, she
sounds so far away. Sounds like she was in the
next room instead of in there with you. No she's not.
Speaker 2: She is in the next room. She's in the snark.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Well, Pepper's cute.
Speaker 2: I like Pepper, and I can't have her too far
away from me, you see, because well she gets insecure. Now.
Speaker 1: Yes, I can imagine when you're blind and deaf and yeah,
on your last you need constant reassurance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, people would said to me, well, why
don't you put it down. She's not in pain, all right,
She's only just started fitting last week for the first time.
But then again, I think she might be because she overheated.
Could be we had did have a hot day, a
hot night, and that's when sheared through the fit. So
she's blind and she's deaf. There's a lot of other
blind and deaf people and animals that get on in
this world without having to be put down.
Speaker 1: As long as she's not suffering, then when she gets
lots of love, then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she'll let me know when she's finished, when she's
when she's ready, when she's had enough, she let me know,
and that will be it. Then we'll think about doing something.
And so then not Pepper is Pepper. You know she
can still sniff. She can sniff out a crisp on
the floor blind as she is from the next room,
she can find her ways straight to it. You drop
something on the floor, she will smell it and she
can find it. She doesn't have to hunt for it.
She just goes for it.
Speaker 1: Well that's it. You know, the dogs with their sense
of smells. She may be blind in depth, but that
sense of smells there and we'll stop. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: She's only a little jack Russell, you know, she's she's
no bother at all. It's just ah, it's just a
shame that she gets so insecure with her blindness. I
was going to put something in their hangar coat or
something on the back of the door, because then she'd
think it's me standing there. You stare at it for
the next couple of hours.
Speaker 1: Well, else you would see it was a hazy outline.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, yeah, I think you could see out of
one of our eyes slightly out the corner. That's what
the vet seems to think.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's it. Our eyes, well they're white. Oh anyway, anyway,
as twenty years of happiness and love, she's had her
own way.
Speaker 1: That is what is important.
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, okay, So come on in what's today's
show about?
Speaker 1: Well, you wanted to talk about folklore, which is fascinating,
especially since over there in the UK you have lots
of different local folklore.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, there's folk law all around the world,
but you put all that around the world into this
one little country and we're still beat it. By having more.
I'm sure of it.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering why that is, because, yes, there is
folklore of strange creatures or ghosts or or spirits or whatever,
you know, in every country in the world, and the
United States certainly has its fair share, but yes, for
for Great Britain and Ireland, there's definitely a lot more,
lot of interesting folk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and strange thing about it, you know, each area
of these islands have got their own folklore, they've got
their own legend, they've got their own medical beast or whatever.
But other places have something simil like the shot a
black dog, right, mm hmm. There's versions of the black
dog all over the islands, but they're just known by
different names.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I've heard of the black dog. Now is
it more like a dog or a wolf?
Speaker 2: Or let me give you a couple of a couple
of different stories. All right, Okay, okay, one moment, I've
just got I wrote it down, so I've got to
have a look because I'll forget their names. There's so
many different names. H can you hear me?
Speaker 1: Yes? Right?
Speaker 2: The bar guest right now, that's a phantom black dog
and it prays on lone travelers Okay, it's also an
omen of death and if anybody notable passes on the bar,
guess can peer followed by all the dogs of the area,
barking and howling as if they're in a funeral procession procession.
So that's above, guest, right.
Speaker 1: Let me let me ask. Let me ask a question
on that. Dive into a little bit of these as
we go down the road. It says, praise on people. Yeah,
in what way? I mean, have people been attacked?
Speaker 2: Appears more to lone travelers, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh, so it appears to but it's not like it's
actually attacked anybody.
Speaker 2: Well not well, I don't know. I've not seen one yet. Uh,
this is another one I wrote down, and there was
another one. Can't find it now.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love your organizational ability.
Speaker 2: These I'm absolutely hopeless.
Speaker 1: All I'm always having to find things for you.
Speaker 2: I know on my computer as well. Oh I've lost it,
but you've got You've got the shock as well that
that can be seen often around cemeteries crossroads and they
say that it gods maybe a hidden treasure mm hmm
there or another you know, So there's a shock.
Speaker 1: There is a version in the US. But I'll bring
it up later because it's a whole nother topic in
and of itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that? Then? I know you're going to bring
up later, but now I want to know.
Speaker 1: No, let's talk about other stuff first, uk first, then
we'll deal with Americans.
Speaker 2: This one. I found it the gay trash, right, the
gay trash, which is another black dog. Okay, Well, it's
more a shag far a shag. Don't get me wrong here,
I'm not being rude right now. It's nothing to do
with shagging or shag. Is that all getting myself in deep?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 2: Are shag shagging.
Speaker 1: The British audiences. Well, we'll take it that way. Americans
have no clue.
Speaker 2: Okay, good God, that's good. You know I'm tidy, scruffy,
scruffy looking things. It's a black dog and it shape shifts.
Speaker 1: Okay, shape shifts into white to.
Speaker 2: Other animals, other animals, and again it plays on travelers
and leads them into danger. Huh that, But once in
a while it can, if it likes the person, put
them back on the right road to where they're traveling.
And this thing has blood and red eyes. Mass things
over here got red eyes. I don't know why they've
got red eyes, but they have got red eyes. This
one's got red eyes like burning coals.
Speaker 1: Is the gar trash, you know, And let's let's go
into that a little bit too. So with these types
of creatures that people see, either it's a version of
an animal we already know, but there's something strange about it, Like.
Speaker 2: The guide trash, it will transform into other animals like holes,
the goat of cat, things like that. But it always
does try to lead people astray. They lost people, people
that have lost their way, just gets some deeper into
it and into danger, you know what I mean. Notice
about all of these things, Mark, it's all about lost people.
I'm leading them into danger.
Speaker 1: Well, that will lead me into something else that's very
famous over in the UK. That's missing. What's the will
of the wisp?
Speaker 2: Well, the wisp it's also known as fairy fire. I've
seen in marshes and bogs like that. Some call it cosey. Yeah, yeah,
that's what that's what it is. Some people call them
call candles and everything. They're eerie lights. And of course
travelers that see them, they follow them, don't they You're gonna,
aren't you if you're if you're brave of course you're
gonna follow. You see a weird light, you're gonna go
and have a look to see what it's about. And
that sometimes brings them into the book where it results
in death for them.
Speaker 1: There's a connection with all of these. There's a lot
of a lot of the different folklore have this connection.
And the one thing that strikes me the most is
how it all seems to be related to the the
as Barry Fitzgerald used to call the shay or the
fairy lore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, with some people, right, they pull them ghost
or fairies, sprites, elemental land spirits of some court sort
or another. But what gets me is, like I said,
they always pick on a loan travelers or lead them
into an area of danger. Okay, but occasionally you will
get one one of these dogs or whatever they are,
lead the person, if they like the person, lead them
back onto the correct road. I stop it too, I'm
sorry about this. Okay, we're going into a bundle here.
Speaker 1: Okay, get there.
Speaker 2: Right, And occasionally, if they like you, they will put
you back on the right vote. See, bring you luck
in some way, you know, show you where very treasure
is or something like that.
Speaker 1: But see, that's exactly like what's related to the fairy
lore is just and it goes into a lot of
these different types of elemental entity, spirits, whatever you want
to call them, which have They're not good or evil,
they just are and some can be very mischievous in
a negative way. Some can be very helpful. Yeah. So
when it says it takes a liking to you, Oh,
you know, are we dealing with you know, just like humans,
there's more than one and some are better than others. Yeah,
a full summer summer swat so I mean, but it's
interesting how Yeah, and when they when they target people,
people who are alone, of course those are the easy targets.
It's hard to manifest. I think for these things in
front of a group. It's easier to go one on
one with someone because of course, a they're easier to
manipulate and they have no protection. They don't have the
backing of a group with them.
Speaker 2: That's true. But let me tell you this one, this
one I love, the apple tree Man.
Speaker 1: It's called I've never heard of that one.
Speaker 2: Well, he's the he's given this name, the apple tree
Man because he is the spirit of the old, oldest
apple tree in the orchard. Okay, this truth and this
oldest apple tree is the uh is in charge or
this this this apple tree man is in charge or
the fertility of the whole of the orchard, so Richard survives.
And the this is found in Devon and corn Moore
places like that where they make cider, and the way
they even I don't know. I'm almost certain maybe today
they still follow the tradition of going into the orchard
and why sailing.
Speaker 1: Oh, by sailing, they go in the orchard and do
what what sailing? I don't understand.
Speaker 2: You don't know what a sailing is? No, okay, It's
where they go into an orchard and they recite incantations
to the apple tree man, or they sing him songs,
and they take a glass asideer or a bottle side
of something and pour it on the roots of the
oldest sapple tree I have. The apple tree man is
happy with this, all right, he can you will get
a super bumper booster a crop of apples. One man
about one hundred years ago he actually honored the apple
tree man by was sailing on his own to him,
and the apple tree man rewarded him by revealing to
him the location of hidden treasure. So I'm going on
was sailing man. Huh, I'm going, and when you come
over next, we're both go was sailing okayil together, we'll.
Speaker 1: Go hopefully we find some treasure.
Speaker 2: Hopefully the apple tree man. I've got an apple tree
down the garden. I wonder if I got an apple
tree man in that, I'll have to go? What's sailing
to it? When't I?
Speaker 1: Well, look at the similarities with leading you to treasure. Okay,
isn't that this very similar to leprechauns. If you catch
a leprechaun, it's forced to take you to its hidden gold.
Speaker 2: Now I've got to get to the end of the
rainbow before you get the gold.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well I've been there before, and trust me, yep,
I've been to the end of the rainbow. Yep. It's uh.
After a big rainstorm one time and I the sun
had just come out and I was driving and there
was this beautiful rainbow. But what happened is when it
came down to the ground because the ground was all wet,
the rainbow literally ran along the ground up to my car.
And because you know, it's all about reflection of light
with the moisture in the atmosphere causing the rainbows. It
stayed with my car and paced me for a couple
of miles. And uh, I was literally at the end
of the rainbow in my crappy, little beat up yellow truck.
And that's about as close to the gold color as
you can to get.
Speaker 2: You didn't find the pot of gold?
Speaker 1: Well, I guess maybe it's a metaphor, because certainly there
was no pot of gold there. I go, A pile
of something maybe, but not a pot of gold.
Speaker 2: Okay, So bogguts a book us. Yeah, I think I
got a bugger in this house because the kids call
it nobl in the goblin. Yes, yeah, you've heard a
nobl in the goblin in my house, aren't you.
Speaker 1: Yes, I have, although I have to admit as an
uneducated American thatans yeah I do, yes. But the bogert
is I'd never heard of that until like the Harry
Potter book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, a bogget usually lives around farms, okay, And
they can be naughty by pinching the farmer's tools or
turning the milk of the animal's sour and things like that. Okay,
And if a family wants to move out of that farm,
and go and live somewhere else that bogget will follow them.
Speaker 1: Hmm.
Speaker 2: And that's maybe why I got my bugget here, because
there's a farm at the back. And what they do
is they live in or around farms.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Well, you know you're you're on that valley
with that huge pasture and the cows and everything, so
your property backs right up to that farm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and nobbling the goblin can be a pain. He
can actually be a pain, you know the things he's
done in this house. Anyway, there it's famous bogget who
actually not all of them live around farms and houses
and things. There was a famous boggot lives in a
cave and some live in marshes. And these are more
dangerous bogets. They like to kidnap people or be violence.
So whereas the ones around the houses and the farm
stairs and everything are more mischievous, the ones in the
caves are more out in the remote areas like the
marshes and swamps and things like that, they can be
right vindictive little twats.
Speaker 1: Again, it still mirrors a lot of what I've heard
about the fairy lore, because you know, most Americans think
they've been Walt disnified as I call them. You know,
they think of fairies like tinker Bell, little tiny magical
creatures with wings flying around, and that's not at all
their traditional the description of fairies, which are more like short,
troll like creatures that could be very nasty. Some can
be nice to you, others are mischievous, or they can
be outright hostile and they leave people astray. They have
what's called fairy traps. Yeah, and or there's like these
mounds or areas fairy raths.
Speaker 2: That's that I get. Yeah, you know, like in this
place you get you get ring of mushrooms, or you
get ring of daisies. The case straight away. Don't step
on that about the fairies a living.
Speaker 3: You know, mm hmm, it's no, no, it's just it's
just when we start talking about folklore, and a lot
of these always.
Speaker 2: Were meant to take babies, one name, put a placement
in their place.
Speaker 1: That was the old superstition. Yes, like people were afraid
if their baby started acting different than they were used
to or whatnot, they'd be afraid that the fairies came
and replaced their baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got a feel like that over here, right
Knockers knockers are like a goblin two. They're in Cornwall
and Devon and they live in the tin mines and
they're very helpful if the miners give them a bite,
the last bite of their pasty. If you don't know
what a pasty is, is something that was made by
the wives. I think originated from the wives trying to
make a wholesome meal for their husbands and things, and
were down all day for hours and hours in the
tin mine. They were going to keep them full, so
they you know, they used meat and potatoes and pastry
and everything they make this massive, great, big pasty. Well,
the last bite of the past is should be given
to the knocker. Okay, now, if that's the case, they
can be very nice, and they were. The knocking comes
when they when there is any chance of danger or
a collapse of a mine, the knockers will knock on
the walls to warn the miners to get out. But
if if they don't give them the last bite of
their pasty, then their tools could go missing, other mischievous
things start happening. So that's the knockers, and that's the
story of the knockers in Cornwall and Devon.
Speaker 1: Right well, the Knockers is also known as Tommy Knockers too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the same thing to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well a lot of people over here have heard
of Tommy Knockers. And you know that was very big also,
and well sch mythology. Yeah, with the Welsh miners. And
then when a lot of them came over here and
started working in the mines, they stopped they talked about
the Tommy Knockers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one's a horrible one. This is one. You
reminded me of this one when you said about children. Okay,
I'm going missing and things. It's black Annis and this
a nice anis a n n I s she's a hag. Yeah,
she's a hag. And she lives in a cave in
Leicestershire in the Dane Hills. And that's that the cave.
She's got a big old oak tree that's growing right
at the entrance to the cave and where she lives.
And with this oak tree she turns the skins of
young children that she kills. At night, she ventures out
looking for more children to harvest, right, and she would
reach her inside windows and smatched small children and babies.
And now because of that, it's said that the cottages
in the area are purposely built with smaller windows to
keep her out, and they use herbs around the windows,
or used herbs around the windows and animal skins to
keep her out so she couldn't reach in. But when
she grounds, she grinds her teeth and hows and that
sound can be heard for miles. She knew WICKI bitch,
that's one bitch man.
Speaker 1: Well what does she do with the tan skins?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think anyone's hung around to
find out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the funny thing about folk glor is
because when you start to look at it, yeah, try
to put some logic to it in terms of why
something does what it does. I mean again, we're dealing
with either a folklore just you know, stories that took
on life of their own over time, scary ghost storage
change changes, or like with the fairy lore, what I
feel are real elemental type of entities. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you look at the churches in the UK and everything,
and look up in the you see all these grow
test faces and things, you know, even in Notre Dame
Cathedral high up this grotesque the gargoyles, the gargoyles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're meant to scare away demons or evil spirits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this very thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I wish it would have scared away a
couple of my exes. I should have had some gargoyles around.
Speaker 2: My I thought they were one night.
Speaker 1: Well they turned out to be. Yeah, but you know,
I know what I.
Speaker 2: Saw them as well. I've got one living next door.
Speaker 1: I thought that was more of a troll.
Speaker 2: Oh, it is a troll. It's definitely a troll. Anyway,
let's get into a ghost one now, should I White ladies?
White lady or white ladies.
Speaker 1: Very popular even over here, very very popular.
Speaker 2: And they are always shrouded in tragedy, you know, either
accidental dead, broken heart where lovers lost and left them,
a murder or suicide something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes the white dress that they wear is
considered like a wedding gown some woman who killed herself
on her wedding night or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they're often seen. It's usually around the area
where they died, but they can be seen on lonely roads,
in forests, castles and towers, cemetery cemeteries too. Yeah. It's
one of the most common ghosts in England and the
most commonest of the lot is am Boleyn Henry the
Eight's wife, and she gets about in quite a few places.
She haunts, all.
Speaker 1: Right, or they what they say is Amberley in Amberlin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well this is that there's so many of them,
you know. But apparently Amberley's halls here, there and everywhere.
You know, I know about ten places she's meant to,
but that you know, others people people just don't know
the stories behind the other ones that they see. They're
all lost to history. Their names and the reasons why
they die. They get lost to history, which is a shame.
Amberley she's famous, and you know, you see a white
lady half the time. People are going to put it
down to amberleyon because she's the star of the show
and she.
Speaker 1: Always has to be somebody famous.
Speaker 2: It's when I see a property up darling, you know,
if I was to say, oh, I got Amberlin halting there,
she stayed here in year short all yeah, you know,
and that's she stayed here, and she's slept in that
bed upstairs that goes the press of my house.
Speaker 1: There you go other than your your your butt post.
Speaker 2: Normal ghost and it goes down, doesn't it? If there
are nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like your butt poking ghost.
Speaker 2: Oh god, well I think that's nobbling, the goblin that
keeps poking the butt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got mine when I was brushing my tears.
Speaker 2: Have mine the other day. Just yes, Nobling the goblin
is a butt post. But but poker. Oh well then
that doesn't sound too good, does it when we say
it like that. Yeah, they apologize for anybody that takes
that is being rude. I'm sorry. It should be mine,
isn't it. It's not mine?
Speaker 1: Oh lordy, lordy. Well there's other more famous ones, like
you know you have Banshee.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've got uh it's red caps. What's the
other one? Oh god, isn't it Jack sprint Dole. What's
his name, springheel Jack.
Speaker 1: Spring heel Jack. Yes, I've heard of spring wheel Jack Jack.
Speaker 2: He's a phantom from the Victorian London. He used to
He's tall and he's thin, and he's got clawed hands,
eyes of red, balls of fire and where's the black cloak.
Speaker 1: There's those red eyes again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very energetic. It'd be great in the Olympics
if it's just around today anyway. Here they say he
could breathe out blue and white flames. So he does that,
I don't know. Yeah, he'd love to terrify people on
the streets of London, especially coachmen, so that they would
crash their coaches. And he would literally follow and scare
young women in the dark streets of the city.
Speaker 1: Hmmm.
Speaker 2: And it flee it, flee the scene, little devil. He
would flee the scene, laughing as he jumped over the
walls and run over rooftops. No one ever found Jack,
which is strange really, because you know, it's like another Jack,
isn't it. Then I found either Jack the Ripper. Yeah,
in times I wonder if there's any link there.
Speaker 1: Well, no, Well, the problem is Jack the Ripper was
at least a real serial killer, and then spring hilled
Jack is more folklore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's folklore. Now, but where does folklore stop?
Speaker 1: Well again, it all depends. I mean I sometimes a
place will get a reputation that's completely unfounded, and then
people keep adding to the stories and stories which I've investigated.
There's one place here in New Jersey that they made
a big deal about called Clinton Road, which is this
kind of stretch of desolate road. Mark you're Morris County, Uh,
and it goes over the state border and drops down
into Upper Greenwood Lake and getting in towards New York,
didn't you. Yeah, I made a little documentary on it
many years ago, and you know, with interviewing locals who
live there, I debunked the whole thing as just being
stories made up or past events that were misinterpreted, like
they said there was supposed to be KK members or
all satan Is out in the woods these people in
white robes.
Speaker 2: Turned out they were always in the woods around the cemeteries.
Speaker 1: Well, it turned out that there used to be a
nudist camp up there, and people would park their cars
and they couldn't walk up nudes, so they wore their
white robes going up into the camp.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. They may have put the room around and
stop people doing a bit of voyeurism.
Speaker 1: Well what happened is we have a magazine called Weird
New Jersey here that posts all these weird things about
New Jersey, and they've done so many articles on that
road and it just keeps building the folklore when there's
nothing there. Now. Other people talk about supply phantom cars
that come out of nowhere and chase you and chase
you out of the area. Well, what it is, it's
locals who are either getting a thrill or they're trying
to get all the lookie lose to get the hell
out of there because they, you know, they're tired of
all the people coming up and and ghost hunting or
trying to look for stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would get on the nerves.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I'm going to talk about a couple of
things we have over here that are very similar. When
you're talking about the I can't even pronounce the name
with the phantom dogs or the shape changing dogs. There
is a old Native American legend that unfortunately has just
blown up in pop culture right now that there's a
million TikTok videos on it right now called skin walkers.
Oh yeah, Now, for those who don't know, I mean
a skinwalker originally.
Speaker 2: A fairly new legends, aren't they.
Speaker 1: No, they're a few well define yeah, they go back, well,
they can go back hundreds of years, but a lot
of them, you know, are still happening today among and
they're very much believed among Native American tribes, especially in
the Southwest. The Navajo and the Hope and the Utes,
they all had they all had versions of skinwalkers, which
basically a skin walker is supposed to be an evil
sorcerer or like a medicine man that is evil, goes
to the dark side, performs black magic, makes people sick.
I mean, in Navajo culture, you don't even mention them,
you don't talk about them, and they certainly don't talk
about to outsiders about them because even talking about it
could like attract one to you, and they cause illness
and death. And but that's the thing is the skinwalker
name comes from the fact that they can supposedly shape
shift into different animals, most famously coyote or deer, something
along those lines. But now it's taken on this mythology
that people are out all looking for skinwalkers, you know everywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, there's even a thing on the television
over here, the Hunt the skin Walkers something like that.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah, and they only
call it that because of supposedly a legend with the
Utes and the Navajo were disputing owning that territory, and
they went to war several times, and supposedly the Navajo
cursed this area of land and people supposedly they said
there's skin walkers there. But there's a contradiction because now
people think, oh, we skinwalkers, this mythical being, shape shifting being,
not realizing it's based on a human being, a human
who's who's getting into dark powers and dark magic. Now
it's now it's this mythical creature that people seem to
think they can find anywhere, and they call it a
skin walker. It's like, see how things folklore can take
on a life of its own and morph into something
completely different than the original stories. And that's that's where
I look at in the UK and the fairy lore,
that there's versions of that, like you said, all around
the world, icelandic elves. Elves are the big thing in Iceland, Norway,
the trolls. Trolls are the big thing in the Middle
East Muslim countries. It's the gin. They're all elemental types
of creatures or beings that can be mischievous, dangerous, or
helpful depending on what you're encountering.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, as for the Tommy Knockers, here's what I find
fascinating because I did an investigation once in an old
cave system on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: That was very good because, yeah, the evidence that I
caught there made no sense to me because there's no
record of anybody dying in that cave. I mean it
goes way back. I was back about one thousand feet
or more in this cave system. It's a it's a
tourist spot in Colorado outside of Colorado Springs Manitou Springs,
and you could take tours and they have it lit
and with walkways and whatnot. But there there is a
spot getting towards the very back of the cave, at
least the part that's open to the public. Yeah, you
have to kind of stoop down at one point to
get through this little tube tunnel to get out, and
it opens up into a larger chamber. Yeah, and that
is where most of the activity was said to be.
You know, we we got the cave privately for an
to do an investigation. Nobody else was there except our
one guide handler who worked for the museum, and again,
nobody's ever died there. And yet we caught not only
EVPs galore, one very menacing, one saying get out, but
we also heard voices, we heard like screams in the distance,
We felt things, and on video I caught light anomalies
and it's very much like what you were talking about.
The fairy lights, willow wisp the balls of light that
people can see out in the woods, and they follow them,
and no matter how much you follow them, you can't
get to them. They keep moving farther away and leading,
almost like they're leading you. And yet I filmed lights,
and these weren't just orbs, although I caught some orbs
that I know were not dust. The air was clean
down there. There was no dust, It was pure rock.
And there's no insects down there.
Speaker 2: I saw, I saw the film that you've done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a sterile part of the cave, so there's
no insects. So in the cracks of the rocks, all
of a sudden, these bright lights would appear for several
seconds and then disappear, and then appear and reappear in
different areas. Yeah, heard a loud like a growl or grunt.
So it makes me again, my logical brain is trying
to figure out nobody died there. There's no human spirits.
The Native Americans in the area did not go into
the cave, and they sure didn't go that deep. And
what could be there? What is really there? And I
go back to the folklore of the Tommy Knockers or
these elemental types of spirits. There's a lot of stories
of caves and old minds having all this kind of activity.
So what if there is something that lives underground, something
we consider paranormal because most times we can't see it
with our eyes. It does things that defy you know,
science and reality, and yet we're able to record it.
We're able to record audio, sometimes video, and these things exist.
There is this guy I follow on YouTube. He has
a channel called Exploring Abandoned Minds and he's just a
pure splunker. He just goes into old California Nevada mines
and explores them and films them. And he's not a
paranormal guy in anyway. And yet in about two or
three of these minds, he went into this one especially,
he was way back in and all of a sudden,
these whispered voices were all around him, and then they
got louder. It was like three or four people having
a hushed conversation right next to him. And he finally said, oh,
that's it, I'm out of here, and he caught out.
And so what is that about? It's fascinating to me.
I really find it fascinating. And I think a lot
of these stories and myths and legends have to deal
with these very real types of elemental entities, creatures whatever
you want to call them, that interact with people, and
of course everyone has a different version of it, but
they're all related in some way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, very true. Well, you remember that dre
in my head? I told you about where I was
in an underground cave system and there was I was
watching from behind this. Uh, I don't know what I wanted.
I'd say it was like a wall ducting, you know,
I was. I was watching these like troll like beans
eating people. And I had that dream what futy odd
years ago, and I can still remember it now as
clear as a day. It was absolutely just you know,
I can still remember what they looked like, people hanging
up and you know I was only a keep when
I dreamt at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know when you remember a dream that clearly
for years.
Speaker 2: After, especially me because I remote few.
Speaker 1: Well, because it's not a dream, because we all dream,
and we all either can't remember it when we wake up,
or we remember it for a few minutes and then
it's gone unless you write it down immediately. But then
there are those dreams that are so vivid and they
stick with you your entire life. I've had dreams going
all the way back childhood and in my teens, very
vivid memories. At least one of them I thought was
a past life memory, and it still sticks with me today.
Every little detail sticks with me, or even like having
a vision. I had a very symbolic dream in high
school that has stuck with me. I'm sixty years old
now and I still remember that dream in vivid detail.
But it was a symbolic dream about my path moving
forward in the future, pulling away from old belief systems
and moving towards on a new path. And it's fascinating.
I mean, it's what the human mind does, what other
forces are doing, and what you saw in that dream,
it coincides with There's a lot of these. Uh. There's
a few authors out there that pretty much read there.
They write books and they regurgitate stories about people who
go missing. David polides and is missing for one one
books Steph Young, who's kind of a copycat. Uh, we
had her on the show. Well, I've read her books
and yeah, she's she's like in fact, even David Polid's
and her had a.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's between them all.
Speaker 1: Well, in any case, there were a lot of stories
that they talk about where people are in these caves
or they get lured in these caves and they see
these beings. There's one story I remember where somebody was
like on a on a ledge there was a little chasm,
and I'm.
Speaker 2: Sorry, but I can't see how anyone can have copyright
on that because that's happening all over the world and
it has been happening in foundreds of years, I know,
and that's a lot of the fun floor.
Speaker 1: Well I know that, but you know, yeah, I've had
my own run in with David, so you know it's
I don't care what I'll say, what I think, But anyway,
the you know, there's a story of somebody who had
gone into a cave or whatnot, and then they saw
on the other side of this little chasm there was
a ledge and there was several of these tall white
beings that were standing there and they seemed to be
beckoning for that person to come, and the person just
felt extreme dread and got out of there. And there
are the stories of people supposedly being disappearing and maybe
that's what happens to him. They're being eaten or who
knows what. But your dream goes right along with what
some people have reported or experienced.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was very uch, not six years ago, maybe more.
Speaker 1: I mean again, there's so much folklore though that revolves
around people being led astray, Yeah, being killed or eaten trolls.
Speaker 2: Like, there's so gory. Isn't it absolutely gory? The other one, well,
I suppose if it wasn't gory, then you know no
one had taken in notice, really would they?
Speaker 1: It's like Stun telling him fire stories. The scarier the better,
and people will.
Speaker 2: But can I tell you what about red Caps? Yes,
I didn't know these little devils even existed until today.
Red caps right now? They live along the English Scottish border, okay,
and they're like a little evil goblin and they inhabit
ruined castles and towers. And thank god they're up there
and not down there, because it's got a hell of
a lot of ruined castles down in Wales. Just we've
got our own goblins in them as well. But they've
literally got a history of foul deeds and murder. M
they do like to murder. They lay it away. They
lay away for lone traveler. You know, they can't get
the words out now. They lay waiting for loans to
walk along the ball or come in the actual borderlands themselves.
Speaker 1: Similar to the dogs. Now, are you saying cat like
feline or no?
Speaker 2: These are goblins, okay, evil goblins, red red caps. They're
called capsa caps because of their hats red.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, got it, got it, got it.
Speaker 2: Go right now. They got razor sharp teeth and fingernails
like eagles, tonnels. They got fiery red eyes, and they
wear iron boots for some reason. You know, this is
another thing, iron boots. They said, if you want to
keep the evil fairies and things outside your house, make
sure you put an iron nail or an iron cross
on the door. They don't like iron, but these little
devils they wear iron boots. They got dirty, long tangled
hair that hangs down their backs, all right, and they
carry a pike staff. You know what pike staff?
Speaker 1: Ah? Yes, yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2: Anyway, they attacked the victims with that, and then they
dipped their hats in the blood of their victims. And
that's why they called red caps.
Speaker 1: Hm.
Speaker 2: The horrible levels. Yeah, and talking about things in castles
like God brings this that and the other can be
that photograph I took Glenn Stephen Castle.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah with your son and the wind. Well,
there was the one with your son in the window
and it looks like there is this woman superimposed over
him standing there. And then but yeah, when the the
picture of the outside of the castle and you could
see the high window up there, and there was something
in that window and there's no floor up there, so
nobody can yeah yeah, and it was looking out and
it had I mean when I zoomed in on it
and cropped it, you could see this weird creature with
a tail, yeah, sitting there looking out the window at you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like.
Speaker 1: When we went to what's that castle? We went to
oh kid, welly.
Speaker 2: Sorry I got chocolate in my mouth castle.
Speaker 1: And you're not sharing with the group?
Speaker 2: Wait chocola don Yeah?
Speaker 1: So kid Willy Castle. The remember when you you stood outside,
you looked in that turret window and then you just
you couldn't even speak. You just motioned to me like
there's something in there. And that's when I pointed the
camera in there and caught that shadow moving all across
the wall and there's nothing in there, nobody, nothing that
could have caused that shadow. Yeah, oh god, I want
to come back. I want to go so bad, come back.
Speaker 2: And explore the legends of the United Kingdom.
Speaker 1: Yes, I definitely would love to do that, like to
get out out of Wales a little bit more and
get out to some of these areas and explore. Love
to go to Scotland.
Speaker 2: I got a hell of a lot up there. Yeah,
so yeah, that's what you want to do when we come.
Come over at some point and we'll go what could
you call them? Not gobbling hunting?
Speaker 1: Well, monster hunting.
Speaker 2: They're not really monsters are they investigating?
Speaker 1: You know, just look into they go.
Speaker 2: I don't say fairy hunting either.
Speaker 1: There's week there's one more famous folks or from Britain
we haven't discussed yet. Okay. The big black cats, oh yeah,
almost like panthers.
Speaker 2: Were they seen all over the place, you know, there
was one in Wyre I think it's Wales, which was
seen by a policeman early hours of the morning.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: They've been seen down on the moors, our dart Moor
and places like that. And someone was telling me years
ago that he was tucked by he kept peaks and
something pulled one of his big balls over the wall.
It had to be something big and strong to pull
it over the wall and kill it. Yeah, take it
off like it was a rabbit. It's yeah.
Speaker 1: But those sightings are all over the UK. And here's
what's funny is now we have panthers or mountain lions
here in the US game. They're they're everywhere, and they're brown.
Speaker 2: But then natural, aren't they. It's not the reason why
we've got them over here is because back in the
seventies it was the thing to have your own tiger
or your own crocodile and things like that. In fact,
I had a boyfriend who had a crocodile in the bar.
He kept it in the bath until it got too big,
and then he had to give it to the zoo.
But then in the seventies they brought out licensing, and
it was very expensive to license these exotic creatures that
people kept as pets, so they let them go.
Speaker 1: So you think a lot of these these stories of
the black panther could be like released. Somebody had a
panther cub or or whatever.
Speaker 2: A couple of panthers and they've bred and you.
Speaker 1: Know, black panthers, not black leopards, but there's there's no
black panthers. No. The reason I was telling that story
is because they're not supposed to exist, and I've seen
not one, but two at the same time. When I
was a kid, I was twelve years old, I think
maybe even younger than that. My family we lived in California.
We did a vacation in Death Valley one year, which
is beautiful but desolate, and you definitely don't want to
be there in the summer because it can gets up
to one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty degrees.
But we were hiking and we were going through. We
were in this canyon, so there was these steep walls
on either side, and then at one point we saw
way up the canyon wall, I would say, about one
hundred feet above us, on a ledge. There were two
panthers walking around on this ledge. You could see the tails,
you could see they were big, and they weren't laying there.
They were actually kind of walking around and moving. And
as a kid, I'm looking at this and I'm fascinated
by it. And of course, you know, the parents nobody
ever believed us, but I normally saw it, but my
cousins saw it as well. And yet they're not supposed
to exist. And in Death Valley there's hardly any wildlife.
There's certainly not much there that could sustain a large
animal like a like a panther or a cat. But
these are pure black. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know whether there's a black panthers, black leopards
or black or what they are. You know, some of
them are even tanned color. But they're just called big
cats over here. Yeah, because they're not natural. They're not
natural to this country. No, But then are you know
in Russia and places like that. Yeah, yeah, much have
I made their way across I don't know.
Speaker 1: Could be people brought them or somehow. You know, sometimes
there are creatures that are in areas where they're not
supposed to be and they show up there, and a
lot of it like down in down on the Florida Everglades.
They're having issues now where they're getting these big anacondas,
the big snakes.
Speaker 2: I don't like, Yeah, but like them supposed to.
Speaker 1: They're you know, they're mostly down in South America or
in Asia. But what happened was people had them as
pets and when they got too big, would release them
into the wild while they started thriving in the wild.
So now they have them there. Even the old, the
old folklore mythology here in New York City, they talked
about alligators in the sewer because people used to get
baby alligators, Like you said, these these exotic animals, and
when they started getting too big and dangerous, they they
let them go in the sewers. I mean, I think
they even made a movie about that once, of alligators
in the sewers. So who knows. Uh, It's it's funny
how folklore real life things can take on a life
of their own. Some are never proven, but you know,
the mythology is strong and can last for hundreds of years.
Speaker 2: True.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we could do we could do another
episode talking about more of these creatures, because we just
barely scratched the surface. We just we mostly talked about
the UK, but uh, everywhere here in the US and
South America and the islands and every where there are
these these creatures. So but anyway, we'll have to save
that for the next show because we have run out
of time.
Speaker 2: Oh oh no, I can go and see to Pepper.
Speaker 1: Time lies when you're having fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it does, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Well, until next time. I have a subject I'm already
have in mind I want to talk about next time.
Speaker 2: Let no, no, no no, Let people look forward to
the subject.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about interdimensional stuff, different realities,
alternate realities, all these types of things. So we we've
touched on before. But yeah, we'll do a whole show
on it. So that's what I want to talk about
next time, so people can look forward to that. So
in the meantime, thank you everyone for tuning into another
episode of The Reality Realm here on the Paranormal UK
Radio Network. We forgot to say that in the beginning,
and uh you.
Speaker 2: You did because you made a boo boo. I did
you always say you know I used to make a booboo?
This used to make a boo boo.
Speaker 1: I'm human, I know you will you on the other hand, well.
Speaker 2: Let's still under zabate darling.
Speaker 1: Well and where can people find us?
Speaker 2: Everywhere?
Speaker 1: People everywhere, wherever podcasts can be found. So everyone, thanks
for tuning in. We will see you all next week.
Be good humans and have a good one by bye.