Speaker 1: You're listening to Bigfoot Society, and I'm Jeremiah Byron. In
Speaker 1: this show, we go beyond the campfire stories to bring
Speaker 1: you first hand encounters from people who say they've seen
Speaker 1: something impossible. From backwoods trails and remote mountain haulers to
Speaker 1: quiet farms and crowded highways. The stories come from everywhere,
Speaker 1: and each one leaves us with more questions than answers.
Speaker 2: These are the.
Speaker 1: Voices of the people who've lived it. To settle in,
Speaker 1: because today you'll hear another account that just might change
Speaker 1: the way you see the woods forever. So stay with us,
Speaker 1: all right, big the Society. You've got the privilege of
Speaker 1: talking to mister Jack Bowers today. Jack is an individual
Speaker 1: who likes to refer to himself as a collector of
Speaker 1: Bigfoot stories from out in the great state of Washington.
Speaker 1: And welcome to the show, Jack. How are you doing today?
Speaker 3: Doing fine? Doing fine?
Speaker 2: Thank you absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know I'm a big fan of You've had a
Speaker 1: few episodes over on the Salish Sasquatch Channel. We're good
Speaker 1: friends to that channel over here. Your love love those
Speaker 1: guys Jonathan and Sarah Brown, great great people. But you
Speaker 1: know you've reached out and we got connected, and it's
Speaker 1: a privilege to have you on the show today to
Speaker 1: have a conversation about what you have collected over the
Speaker 1: years with your stories. But you know, let's start with
Speaker 1: this Jack. Is there something that first got you into
Speaker 1: the subject. Do you remember when you first started getting
Speaker 1: into bigfoot in your life?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, very much so. My aunt spokes lived in
Speaker 3: Fort Bragg, California, and they had an experience with Bigfoot,
Speaker 3: mister Bigfoot on their property where the animal and I
Speaker 3: refer to them as animal. I don't know if we've
Speaker 3: made that connection exactly yet, but anyway, it poked his
Speaker 3: head right in the screen door and they were about
Speaker 3: two feet away from it, and they shared that with me.
Speaker 3: That was hook enough. I've been on it ever since.
Speaker 3: And that is nineteen sixty two, so we go back
Speaker 3: a bit.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. So that incident was I mean pre
Speaker 1: Patterson Gimlin film by about seven years.
Speaker 3: Yes, or five years, sorry, five years. I want to
Speaker 3: get into that and talk about it a little bit.
Speaker 3: It's because it's kind of interesting. It was, if you
Speaker 3: don't mind. It was nineteen fifty eight when Jerry Cruz,
Speaker 3: who was a bulldozer operator in California, in that near
Speaker 3: area run across the set of footprints in the dust
Speaker 3: after I think he was walking the grade after he bulldozed,
Speaker 3: or it was the first thing in the morning or
Speaker 3: some such. Anyway, he came across the footprints and they
Speaker 3: intrigued him enough. He had no idea what they were,
Speaker 3: just like a lot of us, and he got ahold
Speaker 3: of the gentleman from the He was another guy with
Speaker 3: a journalist at the Humboldt Times and the Buff Creek Times.
Speaker 3: His name was Andrew Gizzoli, and he came out there,
Speaker 3: took pictures, wrote up an article on it. And that
Speaker 3: was nineteen fifty eight, and so that kind of started
Speaker 3: the local interest anyway in Bigfoot. And by the way,
Speaker 3: that was the year that Jeff Meldrum was born. And
Speaker 3: I hate to see his passion because he's he was
Speaker 3: a superb individual.
Speaker 2: He really was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, rest in peace, definitely, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yep, absolutely. In nineteen sixty two, still, I mean, there
Speaker 3: was an occasional story with leak out and around, but nobody,
Speaker 3: nobody had really took it to heart, you might say,
Speaker 3: matter of fact. Really, in fact, it hasn't been until
Speaker 3: the last few years that and some of the some
Speaker 3: of the TV programs and movies and whatnot, really have
Speaker 3: launched into a more complete dissertation, you might say, of
Speaker 3: what's going on in the Bigfoot community. They've been there
Speaker 3: all along. They've been there in antiquity, probably much longer
Speaker 3: than you and I have been part of the scene.
Speaker 3: So in any event, my in laws lived in Fort Bragg, California,
Speaker 3: and that's right on the coast, real coast of the coast.
Speaker 3: Matter of fact, careful you you'll get your face washed
Speaker 3: right there. But anyway, and they looked out of town
Speaker 3: a little bit, and their names Bud and Angie Jenkins
Speaker 3: and her brother Bud kind of shared the same house
Speaker 3: from time to time because Bud and Bob would team
Speaker 3: up on trucking adventures of sorts, hauling preate and went on,
Speaker 3: and so to make things work, Bobby come over and
Speaker 3: spend the night, and they'd get up together and go anyway,
Speaker 3: it was in February of sixty two that Angie had
Speaker 3: to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night,
Speaker 3: about three o'clock I guess it was, she says, and
Speaker 3: got up. I was heading for the bathroom. She happened
Speaker 3: to look out the living room door, I mean window rather,
Speaker 3: and she saw something towering above their six foot fence,
Speaker 3: and she thought it was a bear, and so she
Speaker 3: didn't want that cred or whatever it was in her garden.
Speaker 3: And she went back to.
Speaker 4: The bedroom and told Bud, get up, get the shotgunners
Speaker 4: a bear in my in my garden and in course
Speaker 4: of the vegetable garden, a little bit of everything.
Speaker 3: And so he's kind of groggy and everything's just he
Speaker 3: was sound asleep when he woke him up, and he
Speaker 3: wanted to know where the shotgun was. Well, she had
Speaker 3: moved it for one reason or another. So he's in
Speaker 3: there fumbling around looking for the shotgun. In the meantime, Bob,
Speaker 3: who was on the couch in the front room, woke up,
Speaker 3: and she expressed her interest in having that animal run
Speaker 3: out of her garden. And he said, I'll just run
Speaker 3: out here and yell at it, screamed at it, whatever
Speaker 3: it takes, and it'll be gone and we'll be okay.
Speaker 3: So he went through the front door and out down
Speaker 3: the side of the house in the meantime. In the meantime,
Speaker 3: Bud came out and he says, I got the shotgun
Speaker 3: where's the shells? And she says, I don't know. I
Speaker 3: put him somewhere and sounds like home to me. But anyway,
Speaker 3: the upshot is he says, well, where's Bob? And then
Speaker 3: she says, he went down the out around the back.
Speaker 3: He's going to yell at that bear, get rid of
Speaker 3: it and scare it off or whatever. And so they
Speaker 3: both walked up to the door. There was a there
Speaker 3: was the main door and then the screen door, and
Speaker 3: they pushed the screen door, well the other doors open.
Speaker 3: She puts the screen door open, and they both looked
Speaker 3: down the sidewalk on the side of the house and
Speaker 3: here comes Bob literally on his hands and knees, kind
Speaker 3: of almost lower than that, if you can imagine, He's
Speaker 3: crawling up the sidewalk, and right behind him, literally right
Speaker 3: behind him, is this animal towering over him and just
Speaker 3: walking along watching them, watching Bob crawl along, and Bud
Speaker 3: and Angie they went into kind of a shock. They
Speaker 3: didn't know what to do. Bob crawled into the house
Speaker 3: and they're trying to shut the door, and they couldn't
Speaker 3: get the door shut, and the animal would be and
Speaker 3: there's a reason for that animal had was right there
Speaker 3: at the door, bent over and looking at him from
Speaker 3: two feet maybe three at the most. I mean they're
Speaker 3: right on top of each other. Two of them are
Speaker 3: trying to get the door shut, and Bigfoot standing and
Speaker 3: are looking at him. And they said it had a
Speaker 3: very interesting look on its face. It had that look
Speaker 3: of pure curiosity and not anything of an aggravating or
Speaker 3: a caustic whatever look to it. Anyway, it had to
Speaker 3: bend over to look inside. An average door is seventy
Speaker 3: eight inches, and so so you take seventy eight inches
Speaker 3: and it still had to bend over to look in.
Speaker 3: I'm sure we're talking about an eighth foot specimen and
Speaker 3: that type of thing. Anyway, the upshot of the whole
Speaker 3: thing was that, thank you, they couldn't shut the screen
Speaker 3: door because because mister Bigfoot had hands on the sill
Speaker 3: and it was banging, the door frame was banging on
Speaker 3: the hand the screen door frame, and they couldn't get
Speaker 3: the door shut, and so without thinking, they backed up
Speaker 3: a little bit and shut the main door. It did shut.
Speaker 3: They're understanding there in shock, and the animal walked off,
Speaker 3: And I hope nobody gets all excited excited. I'm eighty
Speaker 3: years old enough I want to call it an animal,
Speaker 3: will I mean, I know that there's some talk about
Speaker 3: relic common it's and I'll buy that. I don't I
Speaker 3: don't have a problem with all that. But my general
Speaker 3: frame of reference is an animal. So anyway, the upshot
Speaker 3: is it wandered off back down the sidewalk side of
Speaker 3: the house, and the angie called the police right away
Speaker 3: from from Fort Bragg, and they didn't get out there
Speaker 3: until about four o'clock or better. And there's footprints, they
Speaker 3: cast the footprints and everything else of that nature. And
Speaker 3: there was a print on the on the door frame,
Speaker 3: post or whatever you would want to call it, and
Speaker 3: they left that there because the critter had his hands
Speaker 3: in the dirt somewhere on the line and left a
Speaker 3: dirty mark on the door. And that marked from heel
Speaker 3: to the tip of the fingers was eleven and a
Speaker 3: half inches. That's that's that's a big span. And anyway,
Speaker 3: Bob finally got his wits about him, but he couldn't
Speaker 3: hold a cup of coffee, they said, for about half
Speaker 3: an hour. He was just shaken so bad. And it
Speaker 3: happened fast enough for button Anchie himself. But they didn't
Speaker 3: know what to think about it. They know at that time.
Speaker 3: I doubt if there's very very few people who were
Speaker 3: versed in anything as it regards to big pot. But
Speaker 3: in any event, the sheriff came out, they cast the
Speaker 3: prints and that type of thing, and was apparently had
Speaker 3: been raining. That's February and on the seaquelst like that.
Speaker 3: It didn't have to rain very much to to dampen
Speaker 3: things up because the snow and not the snow, but
Speaker 3: the ocean currents are bringing it in all the time,
Speaker 3: especially that time of year. But most of the casting
Speaker 3: didn't The footprints didn't last all that long, and they
Speaker 3: weren't thinking in terms of keeping. It was the Sheriff's
Speaker 3: department and wanted the cast, so they did that, took
Speaker 3: the took the report and and all that, this, that
Speaker 3: and the other thing, and they finally got settled down
Speaker 3: and back to a normal routine. And within two weeks
Speaker 3: they noticed and this goes on where other other parts
Speaker 3: of the story are not told, but within a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks they had other incident there where where Bud
Speaker 3: would go out to the chicken coop and they kept
Speaker 3: a bag of a big bag of dog food there
Speaker 3: and they kept the chickens, of course, and the chicken feed,
Speaker 3: and a two by four rail along the inside wall.
Speaker 3: They had a egg carton and when the egg carton
Speaker 3: they would put the eggs in there every day or
Speaker 3: every other day, and when the egg carton got filled
Speaker 3: up or closal full, they'd bring it in the house
Speaker 3: and put a new fresh carton out there. Well, they
Speaker 3: he'd gone out there and fed the dog one day
Speaker 3: and there was half a dozen eggs in there, and
Speaker 3: he left him. The next morning when he went out
Speaker 3: to do it again, there were no eggs, and it
Speaker 3: was it was clean. In other words, there was no
Speaker 3: broken shells, nothing of that sort at all. It was
Speaker 3: just they were just gone, disappeared. Well, at the same time,
Speaker 3: he had a large forty to fifty pound bag of
Speaker 3: dog pud there and it went from almost full down
Speaker 3: to about half full overnight, and that type of thing.
Speaker 3: So they it occurred to and there was no mess.
Speaker 3: You know, if the bear were to have gotten in
Speaker 3: that or something of that nature, it would have been
Speaker 3: a mess, and just how those animals are anyway, But
Speaker 3: this was gone. And then they realized that mister Bigfoot
Speaker 3: was coming back from time to time and helping himself,
Speaker 3: and they just decided when and she would be alone
Speaker 3: for two or three days at her time, Angie. So
Speaker 3: they decided that that was not a good place for them,
Speaker 3: and they and they moved and so that that left
Speaker 3: that out. In the meantime, mister edwards from Ashland, Oregon,
Speaker 3: which is north from there, of course, and he had
Speaker 3: heard about this. And I don't know how how he
Speaker 3: actually had heard about it. I'm still kind of up
Speaker 3: in the air on that one, but that he was
Speaker 3: a an art professor of sorts, and he got wind
Speaker 3: of it, and and and very he was very interested
Speaker 3: in all things big. But and he came down and
Speaker 3: drew h drew up a sketch of what where the
Speaker 3: animal would have set and where this that and the
Speaker 3: other thing. And he traced the literal tracing of the
Speaker 3: handprint on the on the door sill or the post,
Speaker 3: one of the two right in there, and uh, and
Speaker 3: measured it and all that kind of stuff. And I
Speaker 3: would love to get my hands on that, on that print,
Speaker 3: but Cliff Barrickman has I don't think he's got the
Speaker 3: original by mistake, and he may have. I have seen
Speaker 3: I've seen a print down there, but I don't know
Speaker 3: that it's the original or if it was just a
Speaker 3: drawing off a drawing. So but in any event, uh,
Speaker 3: and then and then a person, a normal person's hand
Speaker 3: was overlaid on the print, so they can get a
Speaker 3: good comparison. Very interesting, Okay, very interesting.
Speaker 1: So that this makes yeah, because I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I've heard I've heard this somewhere, so that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So it may be called out in the NABC museum,
Speaker 1: you're saying, but I also found this was in the news.
Speaker 1: This is a pretty big deal. I was in the
Speaker 1: Madeira Tribune, and I'll have the link to that article
Speaker 1: in the show notes for this episode. And I've been
Speaker 1: reading the article along while you've been telling the story,
Speaker 1: and I mean, yeah, they they pretty much got what
Speaker 1: happened in that article. Yeah, it's just it's a fascinating story.
Speaker 1: And I'm not surprised that that puts you down the
Speaker 1: road to more Bigfoot for sure.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Well, at the time, we lived in Federal Way, Washington,
Speaker 3: which is it wasn't much of a community between Seattle
Speaker 3: and Tacoma and bud Nanjie had their daughter. My aunt
Speaker 3: lived up in that area, des Moines, and they came
Speaker 3: up to see her within a day or two and
Speaker 3: shared the story with their daughter, and at the same
Speaker 3: time it was intriguing enough for to them obviously that
Speaker 3: they came over to our home in Fedderway and we
Speaker 3: all sat there and I think I was sixteen or
Speaker 3: seventeen at the time, and to be sixteen or seventeen
Speaker 3: again anyway at the time, and they shared the story
Speaker 3: and there was no equivocating it was. It was what
Speaker 3: it was. It was. It was an honest portrayal of
Speaker 3: the events of that night and court, which is interesting
Speaker 3: to me because I started out on the positive. I
Speaker 3: never had a negative thought about whether it was or wasn't.
Speaker 3: My aunt's fokes came up, they explained what was going on,
Speaker 3: the whole story. They later all out there and there
Speaker 3: was no place it out. I mean, it was there.
Speaker 3: It was what it was. And I know that there's
Speaker 3: people that they'll get all excited and say, well, it's
Speaker 3: just a hoax or something different, or who knows what,
Speaker 3: and okay, God bless them, they can believe what they
Speaker 3: want to believe. But I know these folks well up
Speaker 3: until they're passing, well enough to know that they weren't
Speaker 3: playing games with this event, and so that adds a
Speaker 3: little predility credulity to what I understand. And like I said,
Speaker 3: I started out positive. I never doubted the fact from
Speaker 3: that point on because I'd never heard about it before
Speaker 3: that there was such a critter and he was real,
Speaker 3: and that he was out there. Now, there wasn't a
Speaker 3: lot of mubviously, at least so far as we were concerned.
Speaker 3: But at least I started on the positive and not
Speaker 3: on the negative side of that. So that's been a
Speaker 3: help for me as I go along. I can disregard
Speaker 3: any number of accounts over the years that I've heard
Speaker 3: and that are over dramatic. You can just kind of
Speaker 3: tell that things have been added and everything. And I'm
Speaker 3: not picking on other people, that's their business. But my
Speaker 3: dad and I used to hunt together a lot, and
Speaker 3: when we hunt, when we were hunting, if it was
Speaker 3: if the animal was such and such, we didn't embellish
Speaker 3: that it was such and such, it was so tall,
Speaker 3: so big, this that and the other thing. And we
Speaker 3: had elected a long long time ago just to tell
Speaker 3: the truth exactly way it was. And that's how we
Speaker 3: were quite frankly, that's how I lived my own life now,
Speaker 3: and so I don't have to I don't have to apologize.
Speaker 3: Somebody says, well, that's not right, this is this is
Speaker 3: how it was. That's not the.
Speaker 2: Case, right, you know how it is?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, And you have a sense of being
Speaker 3: able to read right through other things. But anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 1: So Jack, you're you're around sixteen seventeen at this time,
Speaker 1: and it really affects you. Did it affect you in
Speaker 1: the way where you started to go out looking for
Speaker 1: yourself or you just started noticing more and more people
Speaker 1: telling their bigfoot stories.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, well there wasn't a lot of big foot
Speaker 3: stories out there. It wasn't there was. I was not
Speaker 3: in a physical position, you know, lived close to the
Speaker 3: woods or something like that, or had that type of thing.
Speaker 3: Matter of fact, anytime I would relay that story, and
Speaker 3: I was in high school, of course I would relate
Speaker 3: that story. They would do to me the same thing
Speaker 3: they're doing to any number of books today. They figure
Speaker 3: it was just all cow squeezings, you know, nothing, nothing real,
Speaker 3: and so you can only get to go so far
Speaker 3: with that, and you and you stop talking about it
Speaker 3: because it doesn't do any good. And I think that
Speaker 3: most of us realize you're in the big Foot community.
Speaker 3: That that's which has happened across the board. There's been
Speaker 3: so many situations that people get tired of being called
Speaker 3: liars or hoaxers or any number of other things, or
Speaker 3: maybe insane. I might get that anyway, insane, So we
Speaker 3: just clam up. Well, here I am in high school
Speaker 3: and working my way through there, and I'm chasing girls
Speaker 3: just like every other red blooded American boy and going
Speaker 3: through the motions there. And so I just put it
Speaker 3: on the back burner for a while, and time to
Speaker 3: time a story would come up and I would I
Speaker 3: would read about it, think about it, but they're pretty
Speaker 3: thin out there. I have wondered about other situations there
Speaker 3: as far as big Foot was concerned. Let me get
Speaker 3: into it this way. Jerry Cruz was was the bulldozer
Speaker 3: operator in California up on the I think it was
Speaker 3: in the Bluff Creek area, and that's where he first
Speaker 3: found the footprint, Like I mentioned before, and and and
Speaker 3: uh what's his name? Andrew Giaroli kind of uh uh
Speaker 3: designed around it as verbiage. There a big thoat and
Speaker 3: it just kind of snowball from there. As as a name.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering if h Roger Patterson, of the of that fame,
Speaker 3: if he didn't come in contact with somebody or heard
Speaker 3: about or something the connection between my relatives and Bigfoot,
Speaker 3: and if you followed it up on that, because I
Speaker 3: know it was keenly interested in anything big butt, but
Speaker 3: I don't know if that was. Excuse me that my
Speaker 3: our episode in sixty two had anything to do with
Speaker 3: his interest in sixty seven. So that and of course
Speaker 3: they're all dead now, well.
Speaker 2: Except for Bob came on.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Roger Patterson passed away pretty early.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he had other other things going. But anyway,
Speaker 3: so you get the idea that, well, I've always been
Speaker 3: curious about it, and I wish somebody was around where
Speaker 3: I could talk to him, say where did you come
Speaker 3: up with this? Right, and would be able to fill
Speaker 3: in those blanks, But they'll never be filled so far
Speaker 3: as I know. But anyway, and that's is what it is,
Speaker 3: what it is. So anyway, so nineteen fifty eight and
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty two was our my family's incident with that
Speaker 3: particular critter, and they never talked about it after that,
Speaker 3: although my near aunt her Angie's daughter and I were well,
Speaker 3: she was eleven years older than I was at the time,
Speaker 3: and her and my uncle Hawley, they would talk about this,
Speaker 3: they get together, but they never went outside the family.
Speaker 3: They kept it kind of in the family area. And
Speaker 3: even up to her death, her just a year or
Speaker 3: so ago, they never never equivocated at all. It is
Speaker 3: what it is, and they talked about it, and there's
Speaker 3: a certain amount of family pride, you might say, in
Speaker 3: the fact that it even happened to them or with
Speaker 3: them anyway. So with that, they come up five years later,
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven as a Bob Gimblin Roger Patterson event
Speaker 3: Creek thing and the film and all that kind of stuff. Well,
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty seven, I had just got home from Vietnam, Okay,
Speaker 3: and I'm kind of unwinding my mind. From that time on,
Speaker 3: did a lot of hunting, did a lot of climbing
Speaker 3: in the hills. Still Bigfoot was not on my agenda. Actually,
Speaker 3: it was just hunting and fishing and all that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff. And I was out of the service by
Speaker 3: the way. I came home and that was it. And
Speaker 3: then at the same time I started dating this crazy
Speaker 3: lady that I'm married. We've been together now fifty seven years.
Speaker 3: So anyway, so my interests, I don't know if you
Speaker 3: can follow that, but my interest was off in one
Speaker 3: in another direction, and I can't remember where it was.
Speaker 3: That all along I would catch a news paper article
Speaker 3: or some glimpse of something that was going on in
Speaker 3: the big fifth community, and they were kind of uh tight,
Speaker 3: you might say, they weren't out there just spreading the news,
Speaker 3: and even if they did, nobody would believe anyway most
Speaker 3: of the time. So that was all of that. But
Speaker 3: then I started reading by Green and Steenbergh, Cramps, vnder Nagel,
Speaker 3: all those people. I started absorbing the books that they
Speaker 3: had out, and their and their newspaper articles. All of
Speaker 3: that started to backfill what what I already knew a
Speaker 3: little bit. And and then as I went along then
Speaker 3: I would hear other stories, other situations that would kind
Speaker 3: of buoy up my my area of understanding or lack
Speaker 3: of excuse me, and all of that. So and so
Speaker 3: the last I'd say, ten to fifteen years now again
Speaker 3: I'm I'm almost what I think I got some big
Speaker 3: foot bur in my throat the last fifteen years or so,
Speaker 3: the interesting Bigfoot has bossomed and gone. That's gone kind
Speaker 3: of wild. Quite frankly, I wonder about some of that, well,
Speaker 3: where it's coming from, and who's filling in some gaps.
Speaker 3: And I have heard of, like you have heard of
Speaker 3: these incidences from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific and
Speaker 3: the Gulf and the Canadian border beyond, and now they're
Speaker 3: starting to you hear it all over the place, and
Speaker 3: you see very reputable incidences in situations, some not so reputable,
Speaker 3: I'm sure, but that type of thing. And I'm hearing
Speaker 3: all about this, and I'm reading all about it, and
Speaker 3: as we go along here, I'm filling in the gaps.
Speaker 3: There was the other gentleman we don't talk about very much,
Speaker 3: mostly because he's passed away as well. It's Harry Truman
Speaker 3: of Mount Saint Helen's fame.
Speaker 1: And can we make a quick just real quick, because
Speaker 1: it's going to confuse some people that don't know what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Not the president, right, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: not the president.
Speaker 3: Harry Truman was a name that this gentleman had and
Speaker 3: he was a character. Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, I think
Speaker 3: quite frankly, he had a number of notables come up
Speaker 3: to his Spirit Lake Lodge. But whether the president himself
Speaker 3: ever made it, I don't know. But Harry Truman was
Speaker 3: a different It was a person of a different, different
Speaker 3: sort lately and many once. And he the visual of
Speaker 3: who he was matched the the the rumors of who
Speaker 3: he was as well. He's one of those two guys
Speaker 3: get one would overlay the other very nicely. We grew up.
Speaker 3: My wife and I and the kids. We'd drew book
Speaker 3: to Spirit Lake one time and he he was outside,
Speaker 3: we're talking, man. He would he gruff, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3: He'd almost stare you down. What are you doing here?
Speaker 3: Kind of a thing? I said, well, is this Spare Lake?
Speaker 3: Yes it is, you know. And he would go through
Speaker 3: those that kind of thing until you said, if you
Speaker 3: got a little store up here, we could buy some
Speaker 3: ice cream or something. He melt, oh yeah, I could.
Speaker 3: He wanted to. He wanted the money to come through.
Speaker 3: But there's a book. I think it's called Harry. I'd
Speaker 3: have to look up the name of the book again.
Speaker 3: Tell us about that. And his his experience is with Bigfoot,
Speaker 3: and he had them, but he wouldn't. He didn't put
Speaker 3: him out there too much, except for a few people
Speaker 3: that he trusted, and Harry was all forever in the
Speaker 3: back country, take his horses and they'd go for a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks and be gone, and he would take
Speaker 3: outsiders with him. They're paying the bill, so he would.
Speaker 3: He would go with them and different things. And from
Speaker 3: time to time you'd hear him or you'd hear about
Speaker 3: him mentioning Bigfoot, the big Harry guy, whatever you want
Speaker 3: to call him. As far as I'm out saying, Helen's
Speaker 3: and everything, and he never had any that I'm aware of,
Speaker 3: anything negative to pass along. I think we've created our
Speaker 3: own negativity when it comes to Bigfoot in the main,
Speaker 3: I don't you take eight foot twelve, six hundred pounds animal.
Speaker 3: And if he wanted to be violent toward us all
Speaker 3: the time or as a normal thing, we would have
Speaker 3: to wage war. There'd be no way around it. But
Speaker 3: it's only when we put them in in some strange
Speaker 3: positions they want to protect your family or they don't
Speaker 3: want us in a particular area, that I think that
Speaker 3: they expose themselves to us in such a way that
Speaker 3: the design is that we will leave. And those places
Speaker 3: are getting smaller and smaller and harder and harder. We're
Speaker 3: putting the pressure on them, not vice versa.
Speaker 2: Oh, I agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: I do want to go back to mister Truman for
Speaker 1: a minute, just to chat a little bit about that.
Speaker 1: So a lot of people know about Harry Truman. They'll
Speaker 1: probably have heard about him because he didn't leave his
Speaker 1: home leading up to the Mount Saint Helens eruption on
Speaker 1: May eighteen, nineteen eighty and he was actually unfortunately the
Speaker 1: pyroclastic flow overtook his lodge and he was buried and
Speaker 1: lost his life.
Speaker 3: Correct yep, yep, six hundred feet deep they say.
Speaker 2: That, and his cats right absolutely.
Speaker 3: When he he I think I think psychologically, of course,
Speaker 3: he loved the mountain and where he lived. The mountain
Speaker 3: protected him from outside sources, outside situations. He had had
Speaker 3: a I don't want to call it a checkered pass.
Speaker 3: That's not fair for me to say that. But he
Speaker 3: was involved with all kinds of different things that you
Speaker 3: and I would say, wow, I can't do that, But
Speaker 3: that's what he did. And he was a matter of
Speaker 3: survival and he kind of you might say, he wrapped
Speaker 3: the mountain or on him. When you thought about Mount
Speaker 3: Saint Helens, it was Harry Crewman when he was a
Speaker 3: character to finish that story, by the way, after we
Speaker 3: talked to him a little bit and everything else like that.
Speaker 3: I'm still I was younger. That's forty five years ago,
Speaker 3: or actually more than that, forty by six seven years ago,
Speaker 3: when I was there before the mountain picked its stets
Speaker 3: up and that type of thing. And we were just
Speaker 3: up on a on a trip out there, poking around
Speaker 3: and see what we could see. My wife and I
Speaker 3: have a hobby. We turned the wheels on that car.
Speaker 3: We're gone all the time. We poked down down logging roads,
Speaker 3: up in corners, everywhere we can go. We dated that
Speaker 3: way for Pete's sakes, Let's go for a drive. And
Speaker 3: we would do that and not come back till late
Speaker 3: at night, and wherever we went, and that was our
Speaker 3: that was how we did think. So when we had
Speaker 3: our kids, we would just put him in the car
Speaker 3: when they were young, of course, and off we'd go.
Speaker 3: And we got up to the lake there and everything,
Speaker 3: and I asked, Harry, I says, I says, is there
Speaker 3: a way for me to go from here back to
Speaker 3: Randall without going on the main road. He looked at
Speaker 3: me with a twinkle in his eye, says, just keep
Speaker 3: going down that road right over there. And I thought
Speaker 3: at the time, I don't recall it, there's a road
Speaker 3: right over there, but sure not, there was. It was
Speaker 3: a it was a logging grade where they you know,
Speaker 3: they scalped out a bit of a road, and I thought.
Speaker 3: We got down in there for a few miles, and
Speaker 3: I told myself that Grascow has got me so turned around,
Speaker 3: I'll never get out of here. I was, and he did.
Speaker 3: That was a wark for him. But I told him
Speaker 3: I found it. I found a grade down through there,
Speaker 3: and you kept going and I dropped down the one
Speaker 3: and I mean over to another, and pretty soon I
Speaker 3: did make it to Randle, and that was forty five
Speaker 3: miles away. I made it down through there, down the
Speaker 3: Ryan Lake. I don't know if you ever heard of Ryan Lake.
Speaker 3: It's it's a bit famous itself. But anyway, all the
Speaker 3: way down I made out of there. But I didn't
Speaker 3: go back for a second shot at it, I'll tell
Speaker 3: you that. And we had little dots in two ten
Speaker 3: and they're low, and I was a prod to debt.
Speaker 3: I'd get down here and get all hung up and
Speaker 3: couldn't get out. And that made me a little bit nervous.
Speaker 3: I have a family, you.
Speaker 1: Know, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got the kids with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely yeah. And anyway, that was interesting and I
Speaker 3: at the time, I consider him not a friend, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: after the fact, I decided, you know, he's passed away,
Speaker 3: and my guns be by guns. And he did what
Speaker 3: he wanted to do, and and uh, you know I
Speaker 3: considered a treasure, yes, and dealings with him at all.
Speaker 1: So it's so cool to be able to think of,
Speaker 1: you know, having a connection with an individual like that
Speaker 1: from us kind of full history. Do you remember any
Speaker 1: of those Bigfoot stories that Harry would would talk about, No.
Speaker 3: I don't. His his daughter, well, it was his stepdaughter
Speaker 3: that wrote up the book. It's called Harry Kerry Truman
Speaker 3: or something. It's easy to find, all right, and she
Speaker 3: wrote about it, but I don't. And and she spent
Speaker 3: summers out at Spirit Lake and everything else like that.
Speaker 3: It was. That's an intriguing book all by itself, but
Speaker 3: I don't think she wanted to get too deep into
Speaker 3: that part of it. First of all, I'm not sure
Speaker 3: certain that she knew. I'm reasonably sure she didn't know
Speaker 3: the nuance of the things that Harry went through. But
Speaker 3: he did have he did have clients literally, clients come
Speaker 3: up and go hunting, clients come up and do this,
Speaker 3: that and the other thing. And the Bigfoot was mentioned
Speaker 3: in it from time to time. So it's not a
Speaker 3: it wasn't a secret. It was just kind of kept
Speaker 3: on the low, you know what I mean. And it
Speaker 3: didn't push that issue, and she didn't know enough to
Speaker 3: go too deep into it either.
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, Yeah, the critter.
Speaker 3: Was there and he never he never once that I'm
Speaker 3: aware of, at least in the writings and in the
Speaker 3: people around them, discounted that at all. It was it
Speaker 3: was a real thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mount Saint Helen's is such an interesting thing when it
Speaker 1: comes to bigfoot because the whole area is totally wild
Speaker 1: with Bigfoot accounts and interactions. You always have it brought
Speaker 1: up though, how after the mountain blew, you know, you
Speaker 1: have these stories about like, oh, they were the Bigfoot,
Speaker 1: were found hurt and they came for help and they
Speaker 1: were helicopters off. But you can never talk to the
Speaker 1: people that actually have the reports, right, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: Well, I have a theory on that that is my
Speaker 3: life is as good as the next guys. But it's
Speaker 3: a theory. First of all, I was around people who
Speaker 3: went in on the helicopters to pick up people, okay,
Speaker 3: and after the right after the Mountain Blue, and which
Speaker 3: was quite an event in itself, But they they went
Speaker 3: around out uh what do you call it? The helicopters
Speaker 3: went around. They were looking for survivors. They were looking
Speaker 3: for this, that and the other thing. And there were
Speaker 3: animals that they would get and pile and everything else
Speaker 3: like that. And the story goes, and I have no
Speaker 3: reason to doubt it, and I'll tell you why in
Speaker 3: a minute. But the story goes that there was a
Speaker 3: guy or two that was told to guard a particular
Speaker 3: I don't know if there's a whole pile of them
Speaker 3: or a number of whatever it was. They had a
Speaker 3: tarp over at the top of it and they say,
Speaker 3: don't ever say anything to anybody. This will cost you
Speaker 3: if you do. And that was one of the that
Speaker 3: was one of the more interesting things, what I And
Speaker 3: so after the fact, nobody would say anything until now,
Speaker 3: all these years later, the the find points of that
Speaker 3: particular story kind of get washed away, and you're not
Speaker 3: sure which way to go with it. Personally, I believe
Speaker 3: every john and tittle of that particular story because I
Speaker 3: heard it when it was fresh and and remember those
Speaker 3: kind of things. At the same time, they when they
Speaker 3: were whatever it was was underneath that canvas, was was
Speaker 3: they were, They were bigfoot period, end of the subject.
Speaker 3: But they were also picked up and they were brought
Speaker 3: to somewhere over to eastern Washington somewhere, and I believe
Speaker 3: it was they didn't want those carcasses laying around out
Speaker 3: there for people to get and get the idea, even
Speaker 3: having a casual understanding, the big Book might actually be real.
Speaker 3: So all of that, all of that gets into that
Speaker 3: matrix of thought process and everything else like that there's
Speaker 3: there today as we sit here and talk. There are
Speaker 3: any number of people who will swear that, first of all,
Speaker 3: there's no big flight. That's their business. I don't care
Speaker 3: what they think. But there's also a body of thought
Speaker 3: that there's been no carcasses ever, nothing, none of them
Speaker 3: ever been killed, none of them ever been had their
Speaker 3: hands on Well, I happen to know of just by reading.
Speaker 3: I happen to know of anywhere from four to six
Speaker 3: different accounts where where people have killed them, or they
Speaker 3: have been killed from other purposes and and had their
Speaker 3: hands on the carcass. Well, it's pretty hard. It's pretty
Speaker 3: hard to discredit that if in fact, you've had your
Speaker 3: hand on the carcass, if you've actually been there and
Speaker 3: seen it and touched it, moved body parts around, it's
Speaker 3: pretty hard to discount that. I think. I think, when
Speaker 3: it comes to truth, the arbiture of truth is not
Speaker 3: our government, and I don't want to. I love my country,
Speaker 3: I love the patriot but I think I think they
Speaker 3: oftentimes go off in directions that they would be far
Speaker 3: better off just to say, yeah, we we we located
Speaker 3: six of these or whatever a big foot that were
Speaker 3: killed during the blash at Mount Saint Helens, or this
Speaker 3: guy run over to one with the truck and all
Speaker 3: that kind. Why don't they just be on us transport transparent?
Speaker 3: What is the game? You know? And I've got theories
Speaker 3: on that too, but I believe it all it is.
Speaker 3: I don't want to. I don't want to go down
Speaker 3: trails that I can't I can't back up. It really
Speaker 3: drives me nuts. Jack.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you've heard a few stories about bigfoot
Speaker 1: that have been killed and the person has actually had
Speaker 1: the hand on the creature. Are those stories that you'd
Speaker 1: be able to share it all.
Speaker 3: Or a little bit? A little bit on The one
Speaker 3: that fascinates me the most is some young guy and
Speaker 3: it was not it was I don't know if it
Speaker 3: was Green's book or Krantz or who but the or
Speaker 3: maybe it was just an article. I can't remember that
Speaker 3: part with apologies to your listeners, but this I do remember. Well,
Speaker 3: there's two one of Daniel Boone for beeat's sakes, but
Speaker 3: and I'll get into that in a minute real quick.
Speaker 3: Like what the other is a young lady in Canada
Speaker 3: that would shoot a moose occasionally and give it to
Speaker 3: a native village. Think it was his excuse to go poach.
Speaker 3: That's my that's my reading of what was going somewhere.
Speaker 3: I don't think he'd appreciate the count saying that. But
Speaker 3: one time he shot a moose and the moose took
Speaker 3: off and he didn't get it on the first shot,
Speaker 3: and that type of thing. So anyway, so he tracked
Speaker 3: it down. He's falling the blood trail, going through the
Speaker 3: motions and he gets up. He's wandering through and he
Speaker 3: looks up in front of him, and there's a moves
Speaker 3: and it looks like he hasn't got down yet. So
Speaker 3: he pulled the trigger on it one more time and
Speaker 3: down it went and that was the end of that.
Speaker 3: He walks up on it. It wasn't a moose. It
Speaker 3: was a bigfoot on the mooseh and he it kind
Speaker 3: of overwhelmed obviously would overwhelm you a little. But he
Speaker 3: he looked over every part of that animal. He looked
Speaker 3: at the feet, he looked at the hands, he looked
Speaker 3: at the head. He pushed things around. It was it
Speaker 3: was dead as a mackerel, and he wanted to know
Speaker 3: more about it, but he had second thoughts about telling
Speaker 3: anybody about that until years later, of course. And but anyway,
Speaker 3: because he didn't want to get in trouble. He's after
Speaker 3: poach and you're not going to go through those motions.
Speaker 3: And I tell myself a thousand times over it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this guy made a big mistake. Yeah. So yeah, So
Speaker 3: you think about that and just the fact that you
Speaker 3: could walk up on one uh uh some and put
Speaker 3: your hands on the carcass itself and tell yourself, this
Speaker 3: is what the story the native stories are all about.
Speaker 3: This is this is the critter we've been hearing about
Speaker 3: talking about. You know, I'm here, I have I've killed it,
Speaker 3: and I'm you know, I'm not I'm not condoning or
Speaker 3: condemning either way. It was it was happening, and I
Speaker 3: think that fantastic, just just a shame, you know, those
Speaker 3: things happen. There's a there's another one at a miner's
Speaker 3: camp that they actually took a picture of it. Everybody says, now,
Speaker 3: that's this, that's the other thing. They're not such and such.
Speaker 3: But they actually had a cameraman came and this is
Speaker 3: an eighteen I'm an hazard I guess in the middle
Speaker 3: to the late eighteen hundreds, okay, and the guy came
Speaker 3: out through this when the photography was in its infancy.
Speaker 3: But the owner of the mining camp had the guy
Speaker 3: come out. Apparently the bigfoot had been fishing on the
Speaker 3: on the river system that was close to the camp
Speaker 3: and he got killed. They shot it apparently. And you
Speaker 3: know these right now, these are all foggy kind of stories.
Speaker 3: You really can't put your hand your head around, and
Speaker 3: it just drives me nuts. But anyway, they actually took
Speaker 3: a number of pictures and they had the guy that
Speaker 3: guys snuck one of the pictures out after the fact,
Speaker 3: and he wasn't supposed to take it, but he had
Speaker 3: it out and it was it was printed up, and
Speaker 3: of course everybody says, no, that's just it's just a
Speaker 3: bunch of garbage. That's a bear, that's nothing, this, that
Speaker 3: and the other thing. So it leaves it up to
Speaker 3: it leaves it up to those of us who are
Speaker 3: a little more discerning to say, you know, a bear
Speaker 3: wouldn't look like that bear. This isn't right, that isn't right,
Speaker 3: whatever the case is. So it has to be something different.
Speaker 3: And the only only thing different that would fit the
Speaker 3: the matrix of what you're looking at is a big fight.
Speaker 3: So anyway, that's that kind of thing. And of course
Speaker 3: you can look at the Daniel Boone thing, which I
Speaker 3: thought was extremely fascinating. That's another another issue. And had
Speaker 3: the Daniel Boone himself I've been here, he would have
Speaker 3: lost his son because that big slam.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, that's a classic story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a class And why would he lie
Speaker 3: about something like that? If he didn't lie about other things,
Speaker 3: why would he lie about this? You know? And that
Speaker 3: wasn't Apparently that wasn't the character of the man to
Speaker 3: begin with. That wasn't his way of doing business. So uh,
Speaker 3: you know, he drives me nuts. So anyway, anyway, anyway, Uh,
Speaker 3: let's see. You know, like I say, I've been collecting
Speaker 3: stories forever and pretty I like to think I'm fairly
Speaker 3: discerning when I talk to people about their incidence, and
Speaker 3: I kind of catch them off guard a lot of times,
Speaker 3: and I don't think it rings true. And you have
Speaker 3: a sense that I don't dismiss the person or the
Speaker 3: story out of the hand, but I just don't pass
Speaker 3: it along and keep it to myself. And they've be
Speaker 3: done with it. But let's see, where do you want
Speaker 3: to go?
Speaker 1: Well, I got a question for you here. So you
Speaker 1: had mentioned that, you know, you've heard so many things
Speaker 1: over the years, and as you said a few times,
Speaker 1: you know, some of them don't really come up to snuff.
Speaker 1: But some of them you're like, Okay, this feels legit.
Speaker 1: Are there any that really stick out in your mind
Speaker 1: that you're like, Wow, this account, there's something about this
Speaker 1: account that is one good to go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll give you one. I'll give you one. I've
Speaker 3: got a friend whose son and the son is now.
Speaker 3: I got to be close to fifty anyway, and he
Speaker 3: and his partner hunting partner. If you if you take
Speaker 3: a map of the park, we call it the park,
Speaker 3: it's Mountain International Park. What part of the country you're from, by.
Speaker 2: Jeremia, I'm from Central Iowa.
Speaker 1: I've been out to Oregon a few times, and I
Speaker 1: know exactly what you're talking about when you say right here, yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I wanted to put it in perspective. But
Speaker 3: if you take them if you took the map of
Speaker 3: the Mountain International Park and you drew a line from
Speaker 3: the north west corner to the southwest corner, there is
Speaker 3: that is all timberland, just on the edge of the park,
Speaker 3: and so the park itself becomes a sanctuary for anything
Speaker 3: that's in and around it, Okay, outside of outside of
Speaker 3: in the timberlands there. I used to hunt that a
Speaker 3: lot when I was a kid, and that's been a
Speaker 3: thousand years ago. When I was a kid, one hundred
Speaker 3: that was eight thousands and thousands and thousands of acres
Speaker 3: And for the most part, you walked in, you didn't
Speaker 3: get the ride. You didn't get to ride in in
Speaker 3: a truck. For a few years you did and then
Speaker 3: they close that off. But anyways, so it was itself
Speaker 3: a sanctuary for these animals. And during the elk seed,
Speaker 3: during and elk season that the lumberunt timber cunt companies
Speaker 3: rather wouldn't let people go in there on anything with wheels.
Speaker 3: You had to walk, and they didn't want you overnight. Well,
Speaker 3: now that's very limiting. There's just one patch of ground
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty thousand acres. You're not going to
Speaker 3: cover much of that on foot in the course of
Speaker 3: one day and didn't have to be back out again.
Speaker 3: So that was what was going on. And there was
Speaker 3: an area there close to the park about mid stream
Speaker 3: on that map north and south that the Mawich River,
Speaker 3: the pew all Up River, and in between them the
Speaker 3: Russian Water. It came off the glacier. I don't know
Speaker 3: what they called it a river or a creek, but
Speaker 3: it was a pretty good go and it came out
Speaker 3: through a flat and and that's where the elk would
Speaker 3: hang out, the deer would hang out, and during that
Speaker 3: time of that type of year or time of year
Speaker 3: either and we would we would start at three in
Speaker 3: the morning and walk in or hunt like pools and
Speaker 3: didn't come out in the dark every time. I almost
Speaker 3: lost my life going through those motions once. But anyway,
Speaker 3: and in doing that, some of the guys would pack
Speaker 3: in a light, tense and sleeping bag and a little
Speaker 3: bit of food and they would they would make a
Speaker 3: night of it, and they weren't supposed to, but it
Speaker 3: did anyway. And this, uh, this one gentleman who whom
Speaker 3: I know very well because I've known his I know
Speaker 3: I've known his dad for Oh I write at fifty
Speaker 3: years that fact, it might be fifty years, come think
Speaker 3: of it. Anyway, they were in there and there's the
Speaker 3: ground cover in that particular area is waist high or better.
Speaker 3: And this large flat had algers in it and whatnot,
Speaker 3: and you could see pretty good through there. But at
Speaker 3: that in the evening, when this gentleman went out, he said,
Speaker 3: I'm going to go out and take a look around.
Speaker 3: I don't think the season was actually open until the
Speaker 3: next morning, but he wanted to go take a look
Speaker 3: around and see if the elk were in the area,
Speaker 3: what was going on and this, that and the other thing.
Speaker 3: So he took awful and left his partner back at
Speaker 3: what they would call their campsite, and he's walking up
Speaker 3: this trail through there. We used to call it the
Speaker 3: water spur because when the old railroads logging railroads ran
Speaker 3: up through there, they had to get water for their
Speaker 3: for the engines and whatnot. When that was done right
Speaker 3: there anyway, But it's all grown up. So he's walking
Speaker 3: along and the ground fog was such that it's hard
Speaker 3: to see, and in the evening and and everything else
Speaker 3: like that. So he's poking around, not paying a lot
Speaker 3: of attention to anything other than elk that, looking for
Speaker 3: elk rather, and he's looking down, he's looking for tracks
Speaker 3: of this, that and the other thing. He looks up
Speaker 3: and about seventy five yards away here is bigfoot standing here,
Speaker 3: both just a bowld as a sunrise and with I
Speaker 3: think both of them were a little bit surprised. But
Speaker 3: the big foot never never moved a muscle and looked
Speaker 3: right at him. And this gentleman he put raised the rifle,
Speaker 3: put the crosshairs right on the head, and he he
Speaker 3: could have shot. It would have been easy enough, and
Speaker 3: it was a three hundred Winchester, so it would have
Speaker 3: went down like a like a sack of crap. Quite frankly,
Speaker 3: but anyway, he he looked at it, and he says,
Speaker 3: it was just too too human too. It was out
Speaker 3: of his range of thought, and and he didn't know
Speaker 3: what to think. So so he lowered his rifle and
Speaker 3: he turned around to leave, and he made a few steps,
Speaker 3: and and then he said to himself, this is stupid
Speaker 3: turning my back on this thing. And he turned and
Speaker 3: it was all of the eight foot tall variety, which
Speaker 3: is pretty common. Anyway, he turned around and it was
Speaker 3: not there, and it had just disappeared. And I don't
Speaker 3: I don't believe, and I let other people have their thoughts.
Speaker 3: I don't believe that they just disappear in that context.
Speaker 3: They'll drop down, they'll step behind a stamp, they'll, depending
Speaker 3: on where that they can, do all kinds of things
Speaker 3: to not be seen. And they moved fast enough that
Speaker 3: in the few steps that this other other guy made
Speaker 3: to get away, if big Butt had made that corresponding
Speaker 3: steps in the other direction, other direction, left or right,
Speaker 3: you wouldn't have seen him either. I mean, I've I've
Speaker 3: stood right there and watched bull out practically disappear in
Speaker 3: the same in the same situation, and deer and bear
Speaker 3: and everything else I've I've hunted the deer bear come
Speaker 3: out and got all of them, and I'm very familiar
Speaker 3: with what they are capable of doing. And they will
Speaker 3: shut it will surprise you, absolutely surprise you to know
Speaker 3: what they what they could do. Anybody's hunting, any any
Speaker 3: kind of hunting at all for very long, will come
Speaker 3: up with situations. Yet, uh, they they have to. They
Speaker 3: don't know what to think. You know, we didn't just
Speaker 3: disappeared to daperize. You know, he's took three steps in
Speaker 3: one trink or roup down in a hole. Now, there's
Speaker 3: other all kinds of stories out there where these critters
Speaker 3: are dropped down into a hole completely and you did
Speaker 3: see them at all, but it wasn't because it disappeared,
Speaker 3: because it went out of site. And there's there's a
Speaker 3: whole different genre. I thought on that one as well.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, that's a whole a whole different chat you
Speaker 1: could have. Can they camouflage? Can they just drop down
Speaker 1: a hole like you said, I mean you can go there.
Speaker 1: A lot of stories have a lot of different ways
Speaker 1: of looking at it. For sure that that's a wild
Speaker 1: account of that happening. And Mountaineer National Park, So have
Speaker 1: you heard.
Speaker 3: Of the International Park is full of that type of thing.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, not just that one, all of it in
Speaker 3: the park, outside of the park, around the park, around
Speaker 3: the eastern side of it, it's more open, but there's
Speaker 3: as many or more sightings over there as there is
Speaker 3: anywhere else. And it just happens to be that it's
Speaker 3: more of a sanctuary because the park has no spiritual
Speaker 3: thing going on. It just it's left alone. With the
Speaker 3: exception of I don't know how many millions of people
Speaker 3: literally drive in and out of the park, but they
Speaker 3: stay right on the road. They don't go very far.
Speaker 3: There's a handful of people that are actually better than that.
Speaker 3: They go up and down trails. But even those places,
Speaker 3: there's any number of places that are just still wilderness.
Speaker 3: You can get lost on a city park area or
Speaker 3: a square block and some of that kind of stuff
Speaker 3: where you know, you never know anyway.
Speaker 1: Have you heard anything that's happened on the west side
Speaker 1: of the park over by Ashford, Washington, Well.
Speaker 3: That's part of this. Ashford is very rich. The busy
Speaker 3: wild is runs. There's a creek and a road system
Speaker 3: that runs right up to Ashford going that'd be west
Speaker 3: to east and then the Mineral and Ashford Mineral, Ashford
Speaker 3: and LB are all kind of a triplex in that
Speaker 3: same area within a eight to ten mile air circle. Okay,
Speaker 3: and there's forever stories about about those. I don't have
Speaker 3: to I have to, well, I knew a gall that
Speaker 3: was graduated two years ahead of me. Both my wife
Speaker 3: and I graduated from Federalay High School right after we
Speaker 3: got off the arc. I think sixty you get the
Speaker 3: idea sixty four, sixty four and sixty six. But anyway,
Speaker 3: and she I think she got she graduated sixty two.
Speaker 3: She had a little home, had a little home business
Speaker 3: there right in the Ashford area, right on the highway.
Speaker 3: And I think it was her or a neighbor friend
Speaker 3: of hers that they were actually habituating Bigfoot for a while,
Speaker 3: So that that's an ongoing thing. Mineral, the next town over,
Speaker 3: they've they've seen those any number of times. I've not
Speaker 3: actually talk to anybody's that was close enough to an
Speaker 3: actual account there that that I can fill in details
Speaker 3: other than they're forever saying, well, I've got a friend
Speaker 3: that's you know, the next town over would be south
Speaker 3: would be Morton. You've heard of Morton. I would assume.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because that the Highway twelfth quarter, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean that's their story upon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, anyway, my buddy's got thirty
Speaker 3: some acres up what we call Summit Creek right at
Speaker 3: the top there, and he's there from time to time
Speaker 3: he goes. He uses it for firewood and camping what
Speaker 3: but he doesn't live there because snows too deep in
Speaker 3: there in the winter and kind of and it's kind
Speaker 3: of isolated a little bit. But anyway, they've had a
Speaker 3: right on the edge of his property across the road,
Speaker 3: then right down into it a place they called storm
Speaker 3: Cane Mountain on the other side, and that's and that's
Speaker 3: not terribly common, but it certainly isn't income uncommon. Rather,
Speaker 3: they're in there. All of that country is tied to
Speaker 3: all of the rest of the country. There, there's the
Speaker 3: fingers of that. Very few places that are other than
Speaker 3: town itself wouldn't support a big put And then you
Speaker 3: go to board. Now this next not this weekend, but
Speaker 3: the following weekend, we're having a big foot round you
Speaker 3: kind of a thing squatch watch, I think they call it.
Speaker 3: And out of Brandle and I'll be a speaker there
Speaker 3: and so this is a good tune up for that. Anyway,
Speaker 3: I'll be speaker there along with Sarah and John and
Speaker 3: course and a whole bunch of those guys from that area.
Speaker 3: But right right, I know of I counted it up
Speaker 3: the other day, fifteen or sixteen different accounts from there.
Speaker 3: For on the west side, west end of that Highway
Speaker 3: twelve up to up to the start of the pass
Speaker 3: is less than forty miles, and I've kind of a
Speaker 3: fifteen or sixteen different accounts that I'm aware of in
Speaker 3: that area. Anywhere you go, once you start, once you
Speaker 3: crack that nut, you find that there's all kinds of
Speaker 3: stuff going on.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I mean, and the Browns have a fantastic
Speaker 1: documentary about Highway twelve. I know you're in that one
Speaker 1: as well, right, yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm the ugly guy with the mustard colored coat anyway,
Speaker 3: and I take my take my ugliness with a certain
Speaker 3: amount of pride. I mean, I'm eighty years old. Where
Speaker 3: to get it worked hard for that?
Speaker 1: There you go, Jack, I've got one more question for you,
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for spending so much time
Speaker 1: with us today. I hear a lot about from the
Speaker 1: Packwood area. Is that really as active as people will say?
Speaker 2: Do you think?
Speaker 3: Or more so? Wow? Well that we for twenty one years.
Speaker 3: My wife and I went, like I say, we're always
Speaker 3: out and we bought a piece of property three miles
Speaker 3: west of Packwood and so we lived there. We built
Speaker 3: an off grade home buyers in an isolated place on
Speaker 3: Forest Road twenty Do you ever get up that direction?
Speaker 3: It's it's not the home today that it wasn't when
Speaker 3: we built it. You know, people don't take care of
Speaker 3: things the same. But anyway, and that the world we
Speaker 3: lived on them At thirteen miles, I'll give you this story.
Speaker 3: We were at thirteen miles to the top, and the
Speaker 3: top is at Jackpot Lake is forty five hundred feet.
Speaker 3: There's a lake up there, same level as as White Pass,
Speaker 3: and it's up and down at rugged country. I had
Speaker 3: been in there and I hunted in there. I was
Speaker 3: a bow hunter for thirty years and we hunted all
Speaker 3: of that country all the time. Did we ever see
Speaker 3: that big clip? No? Was I ever run out of
Speaker 3: the country, because I think there was one. Absolutely, there's
Speaker 3: places within I just walk from my home and I'd
Speaker 3: be up on a ridge line and going hunting in there,
Speaker 3: and something would stop. I've never been stopped by a
Speaker 3: bear or a cougar. Those things don't bother me. I
Speaker 3: just keep it going. But something stopped me a couple
Speaker 3: of times on that one. And then farther up on
Speaker 3: the ridge, my wife and I both were on a
Speaker 3: trail that we it was common to us, and we
Speaker 3: got part of the way up there, and we looked
Speaker 3: at each other and said, we don't belong here, and
Speaker 3: we left. And but the next time up we can
Speaker 3: go right on through up at the lake when there's
Speaker 3: a pot whole lake called jackpot at the very top
Speaker 3: I was telling you about. I had my canoe out
Speaker 3: there back when I could use it. Don't get old
Speaker 3: if you can help it. And if you do get old,
Speaker 3: stay young with it, will you? Anyway? The eppshot is
Speaker 3: I'm on the leg. There was not a sound, There's
Speaker 3: not a puff of wind. There was not a bug
Speaker 3: or a bird or nothing. And I'm trying to fish,
Speaker 3: and I'm a fly fisherman, and I'm thinking this, you know,
Speaker 3: this is this spooky Today It was getting towards the evening,
Speaker 3: and I like the evening fishing anyway, And all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, for no reason, this tree, and I don't
Speaker 3: know how big it was, but I figured it had
Speaker 3: to be six eight ten inches diameter anyway to make
Speaker 3: that kind of noise when it fell. And we're in
Speaker 3: the tall timber. We're in a patch of timber that
Speaker 3: is pristine. And so I thought to myself, so why
Speaker 3: don't you take your canoe up to the other end
Speaker 3: of the lake where you can see what happened. So
Speaker 3: I'm paddling along. I get right up there to the shore,
Speaker 3: and I'm looking up to the timber up there, and
Speaker 3: it was reasonably clear. There was no wind. There was
Speaker 3: no reason for that tree to just up and fall
Speaker 3: over dead, And and I had that saying you don't
Speaker 3: belong here feeling. I turned the canoe and I went home.
Speaker 3: That happened and another story that here and this this
Speaker 3: is as true as the gospel, and it reminds me, well, anyway, uh,
Speaker 3: this this gentleman who hunted all the hills around there,
Speaker 3: I ended his physical prowess. He was able to do
Speaker 3: what he wanted to do and go where he wanted
Speaker 3: to do. Some of those things I could do at
Speaker 3: the time went not near like he could do anyway.
Speaker 3: He was up beyond the lake, and the only way
Speaker 3: to get out is to come back down the same
Speaker 3: road he went in thirteen miles long, and he came
Speaker 3: up to a place and out in front, he's coming back.
Speaker 3: He's trying to come back and looks in the road
Speaker 3: in front, and there's a big foot stand right in
Speaker 3: a road. And he was maybe seventy five eighty yards
Speaker 3: who knows, I don't know what it was close enough
Speaker 3: that he could see everything he needed to see. And
Speaker 3: the animal was just standing there, bellering, just he had
Speaker 3: something in his hand and he would go back and forth,
Speaker 3: and he's like, I don't think he would be beating
Speaker 3: on his chest, but he was irritated and yelling and
Speaker 3: screaming and everything. It scared this guy so bad. He
Speaker 3: didn't know whether he's going to get either or not,
Speaker 3: just sitting there in the car. And so after a while,
Speaker 3: I think the big puts kind of settled down a
Speaker 3: little bit and realized that he was in the road
Speaker 3: and he didn't want to be there. And the animals
Speaker 3: carrying something apart, okay, And when he was done it
Speaker 3: was he left it on the ground. It went over
Speaker 3: the bank, the animal went over the bank, down through
Speaker 3: the steaming, down through the timber and everything. And so
Speaker 3: finally the guy says, I got to go home. The
Speaker 3: only way go home s keep going. So he drove up.
Speaker 3: He stopped right there where the animal had crossed the
Speaker 3: road because he wanted. He opened the door enough to
Speaker 3: look down to see what what what the animal had
Speaker 3: in his hand, And it happened to be a feminine napkin.
Speaker 3: And for some reason that well, I think I think
Speaker 3: we guess the reason. But it had enraged him or
Speaker 3: drove him nuts of some sort, and he went crazy
Speaker 3: on there. But the guy that then he finally he
Speaker 3: finally got out of there, went home, and talking to
Speaker 3: him later, he says, that's one place I will never
Speaker 3: go again. I'm not hunting there. And he'd hunter all
Speaker 3: the country and you wouldn't. He would not go. He
Speaker 3: wouldn't take a chance. My thinking on that, too, though,
Speaker 3: is where can you go that you're not going to
Speaker 3: run into eventually run into something like that. I don't
Speaker 3: deal with that. I just I would go ahead and go,
Speaker 3: but I would keep my head on a swivel. I
Speaker 3: know that, you know, and not because and not because
Speaker 3: I think that you're inherently dangerous. They are, respect in
Speaker 3: one respect, they're huge. You talk about eight an eight
Speaker 3: foot something that weighs six hundred pounds and then literally
Speaker 3: tear your head off. Well if if that was what
Speaker 3: they wanted to do. But all that I think, all
Speaker 3: they really want to do is, you know, make a
Speaker 3: little space, leave me alone. And I look at it
Speaker 3: from that perspective. I have been in so many places
Speaker 3: even as we're talking, and different situations are coming up
Speaker 3: in my mind that I've talked to people about places
Speaker 3: and and uh and then and then you have people
Speaker 3: that have had those experiences, and they won't they won't
Speaker 3: go beyond the fact that I'm pretty sure I saw
Speaker 3: one and that's where they stopped. They won't into the
Speaker 3: details because there's too many people out there ready to
Speaker 3: pick apart their their story and none of us like that.
Speaker 3: I finally, I just get numbed over to it. I figure,
Speaker 3: he does the picture. You's got to be a big foot,
Speaker 3: all the clear ones dark.
Speaker 1: There you go especially today with Yeah, I get it,
Speaker 1: I get Jack, What what a conversation? I mean, You've
Speaker 1: got a lifetime of listening to people share their encounters
Speaker 1: and thank you for sharing some of those today and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, stuff that is very interesting from one side
Speaker 1: of the Washington to the other. And thank you for
Speaker 1: coming on the show. I hope you're uh randall goes
Speaker 1: well for you. That's coming up in a few weeks
Speaker 1: the uh, I believe.
Speaker 3: It's weekend, two weeks too week.
Speaker 1: Yep Sasquatch beyond the footprint And if if this is
Speaker 1: out afterwards, people need to make sure they go next
Speaker 1: year too, because it's I mean, it's going to be
Speaker 1: a great festival from what it looks like, a lot
Speaker 1: of good people there.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, but I think so we're looking we're
Speaker 3: looking forward to there will be near enough time to
Speaker 3: share all the stories.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah absolutely, yea, but yeah, Jack, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2: And we'll have to keep in touch. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't believe yet or you'll sign yourself off. Whatever
Speaker 3: you need to do. I need to get your phone
Speaker 3: number because I want to call you right back for
Speaker 3: something else. Can I do that? Oh?
Speaker 1: Actually, how about this. I'm going to go ahead and
Speaker 1: stop the recording and then we'll continue to chat. Okay, Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you for listening to this episode. Of the Bigfoot
Speaker 1: Society Podcast. Every encounter we share reminds us that the
Speaker 1: world is bigger and stranger than we think, and that
Speaker 1: the truth is often hiding just beyond the tree line.
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