WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.320 --> 00:00:04.639 This is Peter Wood, the author of Bath America and Rage. 2 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:22.079 You're listening to All the Wright Radio with Depay. 3 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:21.960 And welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the radio show 4 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.239 that you tell us you like so much, which has 5 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:26.719 been around more than a decade, A Call to Rights 6 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.800 with me, your host Steve Kadon Al the Wrights talks 7 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:32.719 about many things about our constitution of Bill of Rights, 8 00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:37.119 American exceptionalism as we delve into so many of these topics, 9 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:39.280 but the main theme of the radio show has and 10 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:42.200 always will continue to be this always refuse to be 11 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:45.719 a victim, because a victim is simply someone with no options. 12 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:49.920 Always fight back legally and responsibly. And today, ladies and 13 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.640 gentle I'm gonna we move down this particular archive of 14 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:55.560 the cul to Rights Radio Show a brand new edition. 15 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:59.119 Today in just one moment, be introducing our special guest today, 16 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:02.759 Peter Wood, author of a brand new Encounter Books book 17 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:07.599 entitled Wrath America and Rage. Peter Wood as President of 18 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:10.040 the National Association of Scholars, an author of the new 19 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:13.560 book Wrath America in Rage, as well as last year's 20 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:18.359 acclaimed sixteen twenty a critical response to the sixteen nineteen project. 21 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.840 A former professor of anthropology and college provost, he's the 22 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:27.159 author of several books about American culture, including Diversity, The 23 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:29.719 Invention of a Concept, and A be in the Mouth 24 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.159 Anger in America Now. He joins us here on the 25 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:35.280 Call the Rights radio show as we talk about the 26 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:38.519 brand new book, and some of the backstory reads like this, 27 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:43.400 Anger now dominates American politics, But it wasn't always so Happy. 28 00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:46.480 Days are here Again was FDR's campaign song in nineteen 29 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:51.719 thirty two. By contrast, candidate Kamala Harris's twenty twenty campaign 30 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:56.319 song work that Let them Get mad, they Gonna hate anyway. 31 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:59.000 Both in left and the right now some in anger 32 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.439 is the main way to motivate their supporters. After the election, 33 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:06.200 both sides became even more indignant. The left accuses the 34 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:09.520 right of insurrection and the right accuses the left of fraud. 35 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:12.439 This is a book about how we got here, about 36 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.159 how America changed from a nation that could be roused 37 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:19.240 to anger but preferred self control, to a nation permanently 38 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.919 dialed to eleven with that Peter Wood, good afternoon, and 39 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:25.479 welcome to a call to write hard. 40 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:27.159 Good afternoon, and thank you for having me. 41 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.319 It's is thinct pleasure, sir, and reading your book. I 42 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:33.159 find this most interesting, as we recommend many of the 43 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:35.719 books that we get from these great authors to go 44 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.159 to the top of the call the wright's bookshelf. But 45 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:40.759 in simplicity, if you don't mind going back in the 46 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.599 time tunnel here, describe to us a bit about a 47 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.599 previous book called to be in the Mouth, and describe 48 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:48.520 to the audience, and of course we encourage them to 49 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:51.439 get a copy of it. What then, was the main 50 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:53.520 theme of that particular book and how does it also 51 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:56.560 translate and relate to today's topic about wrath. 52 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.319 Well, that book came about as the result of a 53 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.680 book before that titled Diversity, the Invention of the Concept. 54 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:08.039 While I was working on Diversity, I began to run 55 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.120 into a lot of people who seemed to be really 56 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:14.319 angry that I was having trouble figuring out what they 57 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:18.479 were angry over. They just seemed to be angry for 58 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:23.599 anger's sake. So I pulled on that tread for a 59 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:28.919 while and began to delve into the psychological literature and 60 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:32.560 historical literature. And what I came up with, which is 61 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:35.360 the substance of the book, was that there had been 62 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:40.560 a kind of sea change in the American temperament. For centuries, 63 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:45.479 Americans had urged on each other and attempted to maintain 64 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.360 in their own lives a pretty strong ethic of self control. 65 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.439 The angry person was often seen as foolish, or at 66 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.719 least the person who got angry too often, or stayed 67 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:00.960 angry too long, or became angry too frequently, and that 68 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:06.199 individual then began to experience a lot of social friction. 69 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:12.520 So there were genuine sanctions against being too angry that 70 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:16.759 began to change after World War II. Two sort of 71 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:23.279 benchmark things were the growing popularity of Freudian psychoanalysis, which 72 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:27.000 informed people that boddling up their anger was going to 73 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.079 come back at them in the form of neurosis. And 74 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:34.240 another thing about the same time was the importation of 75 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:39.519 European existentialism, which was teaching that the authentic life is 76 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.240 one in which you were led by your passions, with 77 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.199 anger in particular. Well, these things kind of came together 78 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:50.319 in the nineteen fifties, not a time we usually think 79 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:55.560 of as especially angry, but there was an angry fringe, 80 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:58.759 mainly on the coasts. But it was the sort of 81 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:03.399 thing that gave rise to who For example, the very 82 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:07.160 popular book A Catcher in the Rye, which is about 83 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.439 a pissed off young man who wanders around New York 84 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.759 for a few days, calling everybody he meets. The phony 85 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:17.000 turns out at the end of the book that he's 86 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.600 actually talking to his shrink, and so you get both 87 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:25.439 the existentialist anger and the psychoanalytic anger wrapped up in 88 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:27.959 what was one of the most popular books of his time. 89 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:32.319 This is also the era in which figures like Alan 90 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:38.319 Ginsberg or writing poems in which they denounced in really 91 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:42.560 vulgar language their hatred of America. Being angry was a 92 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:47.160 style suited the beat generation, who is also catching on 93 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.680 in other places. It turned out that anger was almost 94 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:56.439 the perfect match to the emerging protest movements. Well, of course, 95 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:01.600 you've been protest movements way before that. Only the anger 96 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:05.839 that could be summoned to bring real energy to a 97 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:12.319 protest movement had a kind of validation in the opinion 98 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:16.839 of the cultural elite. So all this is brewing in 99 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.720 the nineteen fifties. I'm not going to try to retell 100 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:23.639 a whole story since, but broke out in big ways 101 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.360 in the nineteen sixties and then just grew and grew 102 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.839 and grew, and that's what the book is about. It 103 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:33.600 was written in the middle of Bush's presidency when a 104 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:37.040 new version of this new anger, as I call it, proud, 105 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:42.560 self righteous anger, flamboyant anger, had gripped the imagination of 106 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:47.720 the American political left. So we suddenly had this cultural 107 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:50.720 phenomenon translated into politics. 108 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:53.000 Very interesting. I want to let our remind our audience 109 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:55.279 out there. Special guest today is always here on the 110 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.240 Cull to Rights radio show, but today indeed Ladies and Amazon, 111 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.519 and I think goes right to the core of some 112 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:02.839 of the basic problems that I think are rampant across 113 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:05.480 America and maybe all the places around the world. Our 114 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:07.800 special guest is Peter Wood, the president of the National 115 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.639 Association of Scholars, an author of the book I'm holding 116 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:13.680 in my hands here, a brand new Encounter Books book 117 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.800 entitled Wrath America in Rage. He joins us from his 118 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.399 offices in New York City. Peter just described to us, 119 00:07:21.399 --> 00:07:23.720 in case people may not really have a firm grip 120 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:27.120 on this, you're an anthropologist by training. What's interesting and 121 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:29.879 looking at how social things happened between different people and 122 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:32.720 cultures and where we all came from way back in 123 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:34.920 the Cosmic soup. But I wonder if you could just 124 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.199 give us a simple explanation in your opinion of what 125 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.480 the difference is between anger and wrath, and from what 126 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:44.199 I'm reading in your book, obviously anger can transmute to 127 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:46.120 the concept of wrath. Talk a little bit about that 128 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.319 if you will. Well. 129 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:51.240 I say early on in the book that the difference 130 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:55.680 between anger and wrath is anger says, ah, how dare you? 131 00:07:56.199 --> 00:08:00.480 And wrath says I'm going to obliterate you. The difference 132 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.079 is partly one of intensity, but it's also partly one 133 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:08.639 of whether you are entertaining a hope for reconciliation at 134 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.480 the end of this. Anger, even when it's red hot, 135 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.120 usually expects there's going to come a time when I'm 136 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.240 no longer angry, that we will settle things one way 137 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:22.680 or the other. Raff no longer expects that. It just 138 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:27.040 says you have gone so far that I have no 139 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:31.439 choice now but to do whatever I can to obliterate you, 140 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:38.080 just to take you out. That sometimes results in literal obliteration. 141 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:42.759 People shoot each other, that they do terrible things. I 142 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:45.480 think in the political realm it means we can no 143 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:49.879 longer compromise. There's no ground here for us to find 144 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:53.320 a common ground at all. And to that end, it's 145 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:57.399 a winner take all situation that I think describes where 146 00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:00.720 we are in America right now. The Left and I 147 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:04.519 see no place at all in which they can reasonably meet. 148 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:08.960 The people who call for a middle ground seem kind 149 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:12.279 of weak and foolish that they don't truly understand what 150 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:17.200 either side is saying. There is no real compromise between 151 00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:22.679 communism and the free market. There's no real middle ground 152 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:25.320 between the fighting that we're going to be a nation 153 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:30.399 with borders or a nation without borders. That's the place 154 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:34.600 where we vended up. And it's clearly not just conceptual difference. 155 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:39.919 These are passionately felt. The differences deep and powerful resentments 156 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.919 on both sides, and out of those resentments them's a 157 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:49.320 willingness to set aside the usual restrictions on how we 158 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:51.279 behave towards people we disagree with. 159 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:54.360 Well, Peter, I think this book again should be in 160 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:57.639 every college curriculum and maybe even down into the high 161 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:00.320 school level, because this is where I think all this 162 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:03.480 education needs to or the whole story that needs to 163 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.840 be told here, even maybe even in younger ages need 164 00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:09.559 to understand this. And even if this book was maybe 165 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:13.559 written for a more mature audience age wise, wouldn't you agree. 166 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:15.600 I mean, this should be taught. And I have to 167 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.639 ask you this as a professor, have you taught this 168 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.279 specific subject as a topic in a classroom situation? And 169 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:24.960 forgive me if I'm not picking up on that, but 170 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.159 from an anthropologist view, has that been one of your 171 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.000 classes that you actually teach this very subject of wrath? 172 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:35.720 You know it has not. By the time I got 173 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:40.080 seriously interested in this topic, I was already on my 174 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:43.159 way out of higher education. I spent twenty five years 175 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:47.799 in the classroom, and I since moved over into the 176 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:50.840 nonprofit world. I do to kind of work now, which 177 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.679 prease me. I am no longer having to worry about 178 00:10:54.759 --> 00:11:00.879 being canceled by administrators or fellow back the members who 179 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:04.399 dislike what I have to say. So, while you're talking 180 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:08.519 to a free spirit here, I like, have not had 181 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:11.960 too many opportunities to go back in front of students, 182 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.799 simply because I'm now known to be outside the reservation. 183 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:20.240 Yes, sir, talk to us about this. I mean, in 184 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.559 your book, the many questions that you provide us. But 185 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:24.799 I like to go deeper than that, because when you 186 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.200 read these books, you know, I pick up some main 187 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:29.120 themes out of every author that I get, and that's 188 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:31.639 what I think every author tries to do. Maybe not 189 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.639 every single point, but some, you know, resonate better with me. 190 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:36.519 But concept here, I want to talk about this new 191 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:38.960 anger and if you could define that a little better 192 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.399 for this audience, because I find that most fascinating that 193 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:44.120 anger was anger. But let's say in World War Two, 194 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:47.240 when they was anger, how do we describe now today 195 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:50.320 in our you know, post Trumpian world here with Biden 196 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:53.480 in charge and the Democratic Party here in this country. 197 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:55.519 And I'm not trying to attack them, I mean, how 198 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.559 would you then describe the definition of new anger and 199 00:11:58.559 --> 00:11:59.960 how does it differentiate from the old? 200 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:04.519 Well, the simplest way to defind new anger is that 201 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:10.440 it's show off anger. The anger of times past always 202 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:15.759 had about a certain holding back, a degree of reservation 203 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:19.960 or even slight shame that being angry men, I'm no 204 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:24.480 longer in control. But with what I call new anger, 205 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:30.720 that element of hesitation is completely gone. People are celebrating 206 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:35.519 their anger. They see it as empowering, as authentic, as 207 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.080 bringing them applause, So you can perform anger now with 208 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:43.519 the expectation that at least some of the people around 209 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:49.279 you will clap and cheer. That is something new in America. 210 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:53.919 On That kind of anger in which you win the 211 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:59.320 support of your friends and try to take the breath 212 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:04.440 away from you or pose a competitive sport of anger 213 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:09.200 is what America has come to now. That might not 214 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:15.240 sound to listeners as something that is especially new. If not, 215 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:19.200 then I'd suggest a spending a few hours and going 216 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:25.360 back and looking at movies of the pre nineteen fifties era. 217 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:29.879 Think of Gary Cooper at High Noon, or any number 218 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:35.080 of movies in which the lead character suffers insults and 219 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:41.559 assaults but pulls himself back, refooses to engage until he's 220 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.159 just pushed the limit, and then he'll react, but in 221 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:49.720 a controlled way. That's gone. That's no longer our image 222 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:54.240 of the hero or the protagonist. Now we go for 223 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:59.200 the person who comes out guns blazing from the very start. 224 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:05.320 This is a change in American temperament. It doesn't come 225 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.080 automatically or overnight. That is, people have to be raised 226 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:15.039 to expect that expressive anger is a virtue, not advice, 227 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.960 and we have spent a couple of generations now teaching 228 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:24.200 children to express themselves rather than to hold back their feelings. 229 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:29.080 We are reaping the reward of that kind of social 230 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:33.159 valuation of our emotions. If you think anger is what 231 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.679 you need to do in order to be a full 232 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.320 grown up person, you're probably going to get a lot 233 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.320 more anger in your social life. And that's where we 234 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:42.679 are well anger. 235 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:45.000 Obviously, from the physiological side, I mean you and I 236 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.960 would both agree, and I'm sure every person listening to 237 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:50.279 this particular show, anger is never good for your health anyway. 238 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:52.279 I mean, there's never any doctor that I've ever met, 239 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.879 and I don't think you would doubt this that having 240 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:57.759 anger in your system and theoretically do what called a stroke, 241 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:00.360 heart attack and all that. We know that. But again, 242 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:02.799 ladies and gentlemen, Peter Wood is our very special guest here. 243 00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:04.799 Great to have him here talking about a subject that 244 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.960 really needs, in my opinion, Peter, to be taught at 245 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:10.320 the mid levels and highest levels. And I think maybe 246 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:12.840 through this particular program and what we find in your book, 247 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.840 a brand new book from Encounter Books, Ladies and gentlemen, 248 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:18.519 you can get that book where the good books are 249 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:21.600 sold in counterbooks dot com. He's where this is archive 250 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:24.639 the book entitled Wrath American Raged. But I want to 251 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:26.399 go on to something here. You can tend here that 252 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.840 some wrath you believe is justified. And I'm reading this 253 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.519 the popular will of Americans, this is what you're saying, 254 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:36.279 has been thwarted by a combination of career as deletes, 255 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:40.440 progressive ideologues, an unprincipled press, and a business class more 256 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:44.840 tuned to global opportunities than to domestic flourishing. Flourishing, that's 257 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.759 powerful stuff, my friend, and I would have to agree 258 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:50.200 with you. I would find it hard for anybody unless 259 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:53.240 they're living in a cave, to really disagree with many 260 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:55.440 of the things that you just stated. Please please continue 261 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.039 and describe in detail how you believe some wrath is 262 00:15:59.120 --> 00:15:59.960 also justified. 263 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.840 Well, I have written this book in a more political 264 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:10.399 mode than any of my other scholarly work. I'm engaged myself, 265 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.720 and that I found mischief that was part of the 266 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:20.639 twenty twenty election very upsetting, but even more upsetting that 267 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:25.120 we couldn't talk about it without being accused of being 268 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:29.279 complicit in the Big Lie or something like that. So 269 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:34.720 whatever evidence there was that the balloting was not completely 270 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.519 on the up and up. I couldn't even be talked about, 271 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:43.720 and that shutting down of public discussion me was a 272 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.399 critical factor, and thinking I was no longer going to 273 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.639 be the loose observer, I was going to be some 274 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:55.919 kind of participant in this. Then came the January sixth 275 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:02.480 riot in the capital, promptly hired by the mainstream press 276 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:07.920 to be an insurrection with the Democrats and one voice 277 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:12.000 declaring that yes, this was an attempt to overthrow the government, 278 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:17.119 which made no immediate sense or any long term sense either, 279 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.200 that if someone's being to overthrow the government, that it 280 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:22.559 would at least show up with weapons and a plan, 281 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.160 rather than an unruly crowd that wandered around and snapped 282 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.680 selfies and in a few cases got into shoving matches. 283 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.960 There was no real violence to speak of, except violence 284 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.319 perpetrated by the capital police. And yet for all of this, 285 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:46.319 we saw people thrown into prison for nine, ten eleven months, 286 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:52.680 oftentimes without serious charges against them, and then manhandled and 287 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.519 brutally treated in prison. That didn't sound like America to me. 288 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.240 And this, of course comes on top of a whole 289 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.559 lot of other things that have been occurring in the 290 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:08.200 country that are upset many millions of people. I'm not 291 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.079 going to say they're just Trump voters who got upset 292 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.880 by this. I think a lot of this felt deeply 293 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:18.160 grieved about how to pull out from Afghanistan was handled, 294 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.599 or deeply grieved about what's happened on our southern border, 295 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:27.440 the unleashing of inflation, and a kind of heedless attempt 296 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.440 to rejigger all our elections in the future by allowing 297 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:35.160 the kinds of things that occurred in twenty twenty to 298 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:41.000 be imposed across the whole country by the will of Congress. Well, 299 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:43.559 that hasn't happened yet, but not for lack of trying. 300 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.240 These things add up to a sense, I believe among 301 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.319 kinds of people I'm talking to about it, that we 302 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.480 no longer have a self governed country, as the consent 303 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:01.839 of the people who have a government has been overridden 304 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.279 by an elite that is much more interested in meaning 305 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:11.279 and paining power for itself. And that these are matters 306 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:17.160 that I think rightly induced a sense of almost despair 307 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.279 among people. That's been modified somewhat by the results of 308 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:26.079 the elections in Virginia and some other places in the 309 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:32.079 last month. But we are Nonetheless, I'd say at a 310 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:37.079 stage feeling that something terrible has happened to our ability 311 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:40.640 to be a self governed country and that something must 312 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:41.480 be done about that. 313 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:42.599 Now. 314 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:47.680 That's more or less the psychological position or the state 315 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:49.960 that I'm in when I wrote the book, and she 316 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:55.240 continues to be foremost, how I think we are based 317 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.480 as a country now with the prospects of going forward, 318 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:05.880 we have, in my view, a deeply incompetent president, one 319 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:13.759 who probably is suffering from psychological prayalty and worse, along 320 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.079 with this kind of shadow government behind him which is 321 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:23.559 using his peril of state opportunity to impose all sorts 322 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:29.200 of rules by a mere pot rather than by the 323 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.000 actual couldn't agreement. 324 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:33.920 Pat, Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think as 325 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:35.480 we move forward in the interview here, we only have 326 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.599 a few more minutes with you today, but this is 327 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:39.759 fascinating to me, and I'd like to spend more time 328 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:41.720 with you in the future around this in a different format, 329 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:44.000 but that we can talk about that privately. But for 330 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.880 the people listening today, I just want to remind everybody 331 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:51.000 our producer here, Richard Dugan Station CAZy SBA in Plus 332 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.319 ninety and Santa Barbara, California appreciate his time and helping 333 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.599 making this all happen. But for all of you out 334 00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:58.160 there in the Call to Rights audience, these are the 335 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.599 things that they would be asking if they were doing 336 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.720 this in a live format on the air. This is 337 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:05.559 pre recorded. Ladies and gentlemen. You know, you write a 338 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.240 response to the sixteen nineteen project, and I just wanted 339 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:10.519 to see, you know, shame on people that they don't 340 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:13.000 know too much about this, but not so much shame 341 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.319 that they can't learn. Give us the main tenant that 342 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.319 you disagree with in the sixteen nineteen project, because I 343 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.640 think this has you know, we could spend hours talking 344 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.279 with you about this and your response. Of course, as 345 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:26.039 the opposite side of the equation, what's the biggest offensive 346 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:28.160 thing that you find in the sixteen nineteen project that 347 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.279 the listeners would weally need to know about. 348 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.039 Well, if I had to say just one thing, I 349 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:38.000 would say the sixteen nineteen project paints a false picture 350 00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:45.240 of American history by treating slavery absolutely central to every 351 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:50.400 development that has ever occurred, political, economic, religious, or otherwise. 352 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.799 But if you want to take it down to basic facts, 353 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.319 slavery didn't begin in Virginia in sixteen nineteen. It was 354 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.920 a world wide institution before that. It happens that there 355 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:06.799 was no slavery in Virginia, and slaves brought there by 356 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:11.559 parrots in that year actually were set free. They served 357 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.680 as indentured servants and then were given their own freedom 358 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.440 and went on to integrate with the rest of the 359 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.480 people in Jamestown. Because the sixteen nineteen Project claims that 360 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:27.319 the American Revolution was fought by the Patriots in order 361 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:32.359 to sustain these the institution of slavery, there's not a 362 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:37.119 shred of historical evidence that supports that claim. That's preposterous. 363 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.880 At the New York Times, Nicole Hannah Jones not only 364 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:47.799 laid it out in her original one hundred page statement 365 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:50.440 in the New York Times magazine, but has now produced 366 00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:53.359 a six hundred page book in which she repeats it. 367 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.519 So there's no backing down on the part of these people. 368 00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:01.160 They also claim, for example, that Abraham Lincoln fought the 369 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:06.240 Revolutionary War for racist reasons, he wanted to exile American 370 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.440 blacks abroad, and that the More was fought really for 371 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:14.480 the purpose of segregation and exclusion. He says, or she 372 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:19.759 says that the Blacks have fought all their battles alone 373 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.720 over the course of centuries. That too, is preposterous. Abolitionist 374 00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:27.720 movement was largely a white one, the civil rights movement 375 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:32.799 was thoroughly integrated, and so on. In many cases, the 376 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.599 sixteen nineteen project is a kind of long, long list 377 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:43.079 of falsehood's errors, not accidental, but deliberate, because they're there 378 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:48.960 to support a direct political line to the idea that 379 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.759 Nicole Hannah Jones wants to see billions of dollars in 380 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.640 reparations paid the Blacks, and she needs to soften up 381 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.559 the American public of this strong sense of guilt to 382 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.480 achieve this political goal. So it's a con it's the 383 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.400 effort to trick people into believing something is true, which 384 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:11.480 is the thought true. 385 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:13.720 Well, I'm glad that people like yourself out there, Peter, 386 00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:15.319 and on this radio show, just to give you a 387 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.799 little back background, for fifteen years, we've been talking with 388 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.720 the audience, not at the audience, about American exceptionals or 389 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.000 constitutional bull of rights, and always stressing to this audience 390 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:27.960 that we are a constitutional republic and not just to 391 00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:31.640 continue to hear the blather of democracy, democracy, democracy and 392 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:33.839 I'm sure with what I understand from what I've read 393 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:35.359 in your book, and I think I can get the 394 00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:39.000 picture that you be obviously more right side conservative towards 395 00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.079 the Constitution and the rule of law. My big fear here, 396 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:43.720 and I just wanted you to comment on this as 397 00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:45.359 we close out the show in just about a few 398 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:47.880 minutes here, But you're always welcome back here, sir in 399 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.519 the live version where we can get the callers involved too. 400 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.960 Is that this I'm concerned and not worried about groups 401 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:57.599