1 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon 3 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:12,519 to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,719 want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,239 my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,600 go to dpeakclendarshow dot com, make sure you hit the 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,719 smartphone or tablet, And again, thank you so much for 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,280 your support. News Talk eleven ten ninety nine three WBT 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,759 and on Tuesdays at noon, we start the show off 11 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:38,679 with chatting with Andrew Dunn, who is the publisher of 12 00:00:38,679 --> 00:00:42,759 long Leaf Politics and a contributing columnist to The Charlotte Observer. Andrew, 13 00:00:42,759 --> 00:00:43,439 how are you, sir? 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,399 Speaker 2: I'm fantastic. Happy mechtach Day to you as well. 15 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,079 Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I did not get you anything, but 16 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,359 nor do I expect anything from you either, So we're 17 00:00:53,359 --> 00:00:55,960 even on that score. Are you going down to any 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:01,920 of the any of the festivities or celebrations. 19 00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: In and on it? 20 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: Okay, we expect a full report then next week. They 21 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,760 always do it at like noon, and I like, I 22 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:09,159 can never go because I'm on air, you know. 23 00:01:09,719 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: So uh, Tusky work. 24 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so all right, Well, uh, I'm sorry about 25 00:01:15,519 --> 00:01:19,319 your defeat at the City council last night. Did not 26 00:01:19,519 --> 00:01:22,280 get the city council post that you had applied for? 27 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,799 Did you? Did you like your chances going into the 28 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:25,560 council meeting? 29 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: No, I didn't like my chances at all. You know, 30 00:01:29,519 --> 00:01:31,799 I knew going in it was a super long shot, 31 00:01:31,879 --> 00:01:35,200 but no hard feelings. And you know, I'm happy that 32 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:36,519 I took part in the process. 33 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,599 Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you learn anything about the process. 34 00:01:40,879 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I saw. I'm actually just getting to 35 00:01:44,079 --> 00:01:47,799 watch the meeting from last night now, you know, like you, 36 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,079 I have a job as well that keeps me from 37 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,519 from going to early afternoon meetings. And I guess they 38 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,159 voted in secret and then just revealed the results at 39 00:01:57,159 --> 00:02:00,159 the meeting. I don't it's it's a convoluted process. I 40 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,400 think the City of Charlotte could use a little bit 41 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,359 more transparency. 42 00:02:03,599 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: Oh well, yes, on many fronts, absolutely, I agree. Yeah, 43 00:02:08,319 --> 00:02:10,759 I don't like this. Uh. And this has been sort 44 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,520 of referred to over the years as the Charlotte Way 45 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,599 where there was an old county commissioner, very controversial Bill James, 46 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,560 and he used to call uh he said Charlotte suffered 47 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:26,560 from dysfunctional civility where they would do a lot of 48 00:02:26,599 --> 00:02:28,800 this stuff behind closed doors and then come out with 49 00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:32,000 a united front kind of a vote or an announcement, 50 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,120 so you would never hear the arguments or know which 51 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,240 way the votes, you know, split in the closed sessions, 52 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,199 and they would come out and just make an announcement 53 00:02:40,199 --> 00:02:42,120 to make it seem like they're all on the same page, 54 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,800 you know, and that's not the case. 55 00:02:45,199 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: I don't think that's how how our government is supposed 56 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:48,479 to work. 57 00:02:49,039 --> 00:02:51,719 Speaker 1: No, it's supposed to be messy. That's what a democracy 58 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:52,800 is all about, I thought. 59 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 2: So. 60 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently the mayor had to split the tie because 61 00:02:58,319 --> 00:03:01,280 tark Bakari vacate the seat took the job up in 62 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,560 the Trump administration. So it was a five to five split. 63 00:03:05,039 --> 00:03:11,479 And that's interesting because it kind of crystallizes the voting 64 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,919 blocks generally, not on all issues, but on the city 65 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:20,199 council where you've got dimple edgemere to Juanna Brown, Renee Johnson, 66 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,199 Victoria Watlington. That's sort of one camp. I feel like 67 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,159 Ed Driggs Republican, the only Republican on the council until 68 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,719 last night that he he probably had to go along 69 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:37,319 with all of the endorsements that Chrystal Bocari had racked up, right, 70 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,520 like the local GOP, she had state lawmakers, So there 71 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,919 may have been some pressure not overt but you know, 72 00:03:45,199 --> 00:03:48,439 you could definitely see where the wind is blowing within 73 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,039 the GOP on who they wanted, and it wasn't Edwin Peacock. 74 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: Right, And you know, to be honest, I've known the 75 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,400 Bocaris and Edwin Peacock for a long time. I think 76 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:02,840 they both would have done a great job. So yeah, 77 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:06,719 at this point, you know, I'm in supportive of that one. 78 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, well yeah and so and he's a perfectly 79 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,960 capable council member. He was a council member, ran for 80 00:04:14,039 --> 00:04:17,600 mayor a couple of times, and so and he says 81 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,120 he's not going to run for the seat again, just 82 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,079 like you said you wouldn't. And I think a lot 83 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,959 of council members preferred that they didn't want somebody who 84 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,199 was going to be in there to then run for reelection, 85 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,920 because that's kind of what they've done in the past. 86 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,519 They always they always say, we don't want somebody that's 87 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,879 looking to run in the election itself. Just a placeholder 88 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,160 until the voters can have their say. So I get it, 89 00:04:36,959 --> 00:04:40,040 but again, sorry for your loss, Andrew Dunn. 90 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. 91 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: Yes, all right. Well it's interesting though, because you had 92 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,839 this other piece, a very lengthy piece at long Leave 93 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,720 Politics that that spoke to me in a way because 94 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,399 I have gotten involved in my neighborhood HOA and and 95 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:57,120 you actually say some stuff in here that I try 96 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,680 to tell my fellow neighbors in the ho which is 97 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,759 this is political, like we are engaged in politics. You 98 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,600 may not have viewed it like that when you first 99 00:05:06,639 --> 00:05:09,959 signed up, but this is a level of politics. There. 100 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,279 There's like fourteen thousand hoas across America, so or no, no, 101 00:05:14,399 --> 00:05:17,639 fourteen thousand across the state of North Carolina. So it 102 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,040 is by far the largest sort of elected body if 103 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:24,040 you just look at all of the membership combined. So 104 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,240 this is governance. And you point out in this in 105 00:05:28,319 --> 00:05:32,240 this piece politics is the same at every level. So 106 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:33,639 what do you mean by that? 107 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:38,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, you know, people like to think of politics 108 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,720 as something that you know, happens in Raleigh or happens 109 00:05:41,759 --> 00:05:44,240 you know, at the government center. But you know, really 110 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,800 all that politics is is how groups of people make 111 00:05:47,879 --> 00:05:53,120 decisions together. And you know, I've been involved in campaigns 112 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:56,319 and elections and covering government at all sorts of different 113 00:05:56,399 --> 00:06:00,680 levels for years, and there's really not all that much 114 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:06,120 difference in the pettiness and the you know, divisiveness, the factions, 115 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,199 you know, whether you're running for governor or running for 116 00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:12,519 HOA president. And you know, I was, you know, marginally 117 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,680 involved in a swim club board election here in my 118 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,759 neighborhood over the past couple of weeks and just got 119 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,480 me thinking, you know, there were just so many parallels 120 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,959 to what we see at the state and national level. 121 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,639 Speaker 1: Well, you do mention the the hot topic in virtually 122 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,639 all hoas with court the pickleball players versus the tennis players, 123 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,519 although in my neighborhood we've got some we've got some 124 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,800 pickle versus pickle action going on too there. You know, 125 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,879 there's a disagreement about some of the rules and reserving 126 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,759 court space and stuff, and so like you end but 127 00:06:49,879 --> 00:06:53,519 it's true, like you end up in these political situations 128 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,600 where you're trying to you know, work out compromises and solutions. 129 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,639 You also mentioned I've said this for years too. You 130 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,959 mentioned something along the lines I felt like you were 131 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,800 speaking my language when you said that so much of 132 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,360 politics is personal relationships. And I've told people this for years. 133 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,680 You don't understand if you're not like following politics or 134 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:19,120 in politics. So many things come down to just petty grievances, slights. 135 00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:22,240 They forgot my name, they didn't invite me to something, 136 00:07:22,399 --> 00:07:27,199 and then like this whole rift develops between these two 137 00:07:27,319 --> 00:07:31,000 candidates or offices or something, and it's it really is 138 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,439 sometimes that silly. 139 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,279 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. You know. The biggest parallel that I saw 140 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,959 was having to do with arguing over the rules of 141 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,279 the election. So you know, our swim club board is 142 00:07:45,319 --> 00:07:48,519 governed by a charter or what have you. It's got 143 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,639 their bylaws, and so there were proxy ballots, you know, 144 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,000 you could consider them absentee ballots, and there was all 145 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,839 sorts of bickering over what ballots would count, what ballots 146 00:07:58,839 --> 00:08:01,519 wouldn't count. And you know, I've been covering extensively the 147 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:05,720 Jefferson Griffin election challenge, and I just couldn't help but 148 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,279 see them as one and the same. 149 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:11,879 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, what's the postmark or there hanging chads on 150 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:16,480 the proxy votes to swim club. You said also that 151 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,959 people don't crave power as much as they want recognition, 152 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:27,160 gratitude and deference. And it's so much of this stuff, 153 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:29,639 whether it's at the HOA level or all the way up. 154 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,680 I mean, you see it with Joe Biden too, right, 155 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:36,200 the crafting of a narrative around legacy. They want to 156 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,919 have made a difference. People want. It's why you know, 157 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:42,519 they take charge of certain projects to you know, build 158 00:08:42,519 --> 00:08:46,720 buildings or amenities or you know, set the economy right 159 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,519 or whatever. They want to be known, you know, for 160 00:08:49,639 --> 00:08:55,000 posterity for something that they did. And you say, power 161 00:08:55,039 --> 00:08:59,720 also does not flow through formal channels. It flows through familiarity, 162 00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:04,320 and a lot of people just don't get engaged and 163 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,240 that's probably at all levels. And then you know they 164 00:09:08,279 --> 00:09:11,720 complain about the way things are, but they don't they 165 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,399 don't engage except to complain like on a Facebook group. 166 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. And you know, the way 167 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,320 I think about it is, you know, there's always conversations, 168 00:09:22,519 --> 00:09:25,200 especially around people who've been in office for years and 169 00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:27,320 years and years, like why did you know, why is 170 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,559 it so important to them? Why don't they just retire? 171 00:09:29,639 --> 00:09:32,279 Why don't they just make way for somebody else? But 172 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,080 you know, you have to think through it at the 173 00:09:35,159 --> 00:09:38,440 personal level. You know a lot of these folks, you know, 174 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,200 they are well meaning in general, and they are trying 175 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,320 to craft that legacy, like you were saying, and it's 176 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,279 hard not to take it personally. You know, if somebody 177 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,600 is challenging you and saying you're doing a bad job, 178 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,240 you know, it just becomes intensely personal. And that's why 179 00:09:54,279 --> 00:09:56,080 you fight so hard to stay in office. 180 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: So did you win the swim club election? Were you 181 00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:00,000 running for the swim club? 182 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: I was not running, Thank goodness. I don't know if 183 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:04,519 I have the stomach for that. 184 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: You'll serve on city council, but you won't serve on 185 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,960 the swim club board. Your that's your line. Okay, that's 186 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,120 fair enough, And I also thought it was good advice. 187 00:10:15,159 --> 00:10:17,080 At the very end, you said the whole system runs 188 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,960 on the people who show up, and that is absolutely true. 189 00:10:21,039 --> 00:10:23,320 And I've told people in the neighborhood also that if 190 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,720 you if good competent people do not step up and 191 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:30,399 volunteer as you did for city council, we will be 192 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:35,200 governed by bad incompetent people. So like there needs to 193 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,039 be some recognition of that. Yes, it's a it's a 194 00:10:38,039 --> 00:10:42,240 devotion of your time. Yes, it's a sacrifice, but good 195 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,279 competent people need to do it because otherwise the results 196 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:51,519 are are not optimal. So absolutely long Leaf Politics. Longleafpol 197 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,759 dot com is the website. Andrew Dunn is the publisher 198 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,279 of long Leaf Politics. You can also read his work 199 00:10:57,279 --> 00:11:00,159 at The Charlotte Observer in the op ed section. And Drew, 200 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,799 good to talk with you. Happy Mecdec Day. And we'll 201 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:05,840 see you next week or no, next week is Memorial Day? Right, 202 00:11:06,039 --> 00:11:07,080 next week's Memorial Day? 203 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 2: I think, Oh, Monday is Memorial Monday. I can still 204 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:10,759 come on Tuesday. 205 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, Tuesday. Sorry, I forgot what day it is. Okay, yeah, Tuesday. 206 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,480 We'll talk to you Tuesday. All right, thanks Andrew Dunn, 207 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,480 appreciate it. That's Andrew from long Leave Politics. It is Tuesday. Yeah, 208 00:11:22,519 --> 00:11:24,440 I don't know why I thought it was Monday. Here's 209 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,039 a great idea. How about making an escape to a 210 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,600 really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina? Just 211 00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:33,159 a quick drive up the mountain and cabins of Asheville 212 00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:37,080 is your connection. 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Bokhari took a job up in DC for 237 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,600 the Trump administration, and a bunch of people had submitted applications, 238 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,039 including Andrew Dunn, to serve on the city council, just 239 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,159 for the remainder of the unexpired term, which is only 240 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:25,240 about five or six months, because the elections in November 241 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,120 and then the new council members get sworn in in December, 242 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,960 so it wasn't there's not a lot of time left, 243 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,919 and so a lot of people had pitched themselves as 244 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,279 just a placeholder, not somebody who was going to be 245 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,279 running for the seat, which my guess is, and I 246 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,799 don't know if she has announced or not, but my 247 00:13:44,919 --> 00:13:48,320 guess is that one of the applicants tark Bookari's wife, Christa, 248 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,559 who we spoke with about a week ago, I suspect 249 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,039 she wants to run for that seat. So that's part 250 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,600 of it. I think the other part of it is 251 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:02,159 that she is, you know, Tarc Bookari's wife, and Tarc 252 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,399 Bacary you know, I don't know if there are people 253 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,399 on the Charlotte City Council that don't like him and 254 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,080 took it out on her. Yeah. So, and also Tarc 255 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:18,120 Bacary was at the center of this h you know, 256 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,440 this fight over the vests, the bulletproof vests for law 257 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:25,360 enforcement officers last year that then prompted the text message 258 00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:28,519 exchanges with the chief of police and Tark Bacari. And 259 00:14:28,559 --> 00:14:32,159 then the Charlotte City Council just paid out the police 260 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:37,000 chief three hundred thousand dollars really for no reason. And 261 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,360 so now they're trying to deflect away from that scandal. 262 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,399 So having Christo Bacari on the council with you when 263 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,360 you're trying to deflect away from that scandal, that's probably 264 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:51,960 not ideal, let's say. And so when you look at 265 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,000 the way the vote broke down, it was the Mayor 266 00:14:54,039 --> 00:14:59,600 pro tem Dante Anderson, Malcolm Graham, Lawana Slack Mayfield, James Mitchell, 267 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,960 and Marjorie Molina. That was the block of five that 268 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,759 voted for Edwin Peacock, who perfectly qualified for the post. 269 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:11,759 He was a Charlotte City councilman. He was the last 270 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:16,720 at large city councilman of a Republican persuasion ever elected 271 00:15:17,559 --> 00:15:23,279 back in what two thousand and seven, So he yeah, 272 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:25,440 that's the last time a Republican has won an at 273 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:29,240 large seat on Charlotte City Council. He was it. He 274 00:15:29,279 --> 00:15:34,840 then ran for mayor twice, he lost, and so they 275 00:15:34,919 --> 00:15:37,679 named him. So it's been a while since he's been 276 00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:42,080 in city Hall, but you know, he does have familiarity 277 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,120 with the post, as did one of the other applicants, 278 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,759 Andy Doolan, also a former city council member, So there 279 00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:50,840 was talk that he might be the pick. But I 280 00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:52,679 look at the way the votes broke down, and when 281 00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:55,039 you have a five to five split, obviously they were 282 00:15:55,039 --> 00:16:00,840 whipping votes right because any like had any one of 283 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,720 the other five dimple Ajmera Tijuana Brown, At Driggs, Rene Johnson, 284 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:10,639 Victoria Watlington had that block splintered and voted. If one 285 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:13,759 of them had voted for like Andy Doolin or anybody 286 00:16:13,799 --> 00:16:16,320 else Andrew Dunn, if they had voted for any other applicant, 287 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:22,000 then you would have had the majority of the vote 288 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,519 going to Edwin Peacock initially, So obviously there was some 289 00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:30,919 coordination going on among the council members. Like the extent 290 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,720 of the coordination, who is involved, I don't know. But 291 00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:35,519 when I see a five to five split like this 292 00:16:35,679 --> 00:16:40,440 for just two candidates and you know one of them 293 00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:44,399 has four Democrats and one Republican, like that's that is 294 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,919 indicative of this power struggle that is occurring inside Charlotte's 295 00:16:48,919 --> 00:16:52,320 City Council. And because nine of the eleven members of Democrats, 296 00:16:52,759 --> 00:16:55,120 they keep all of that stuff sort of behind the 297 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,240 curtains because they don't want to damage the Democrat brand. 298 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,399 So they have these fights over text messages or phone 299 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,640 calls or you know, face to face, but out of 300 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,880 the public view. They don't really get into this stuff 301 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,200 in public. That's one of the problems with having a 302 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,359 body that is dominated by one political party like this. 303 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:20,799 So congratulations to Edwin Peacock on his appointment. We'll see 304 00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:23,200 how it goes, all right, If you're listening to this show, 305 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,799 you know I try to keep up with all sorts 306 00:17:24,799 --> 00:17:26,839 of current events, and I know you do too, and 307 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,359 you've probably heard me say, get your news from multiple sources. 308 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:31,079 Speaker 2: Why. 309 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: Well, because it's how you detect media bias, which is 310 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,279 why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an 311 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,759 app and it's a website and it combines news from 312 00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:42,960 around the world in one place, so you can compare 313 00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:46,119 coverage and verify information. You could check it out at 314 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,680 check dot ground, dot news slash pete. I put the 315 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,880 link in the podcast description too. I started using ground 316 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,599 News a few months ago and more recently chose to 317 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,559 work with them as an affiliate because it lets me 318 00:17:58,599 --> 00:18:02,440 see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The 319 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,519 blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by 320 00:18:05,519 --> 00:18:09,359 the left and the right. See for yourself. Check dot ground, 321 00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:13,240 dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll 322 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,440 get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage 323 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,920 plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription 324 00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:22,720 then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports 325 00:18:22,759 --> 00:18:26,039 ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. 326 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,880 So today is Mechdeck Day. Mecklenburg Declaration Mecklenberg Declaration of Independence. 327 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,319 May twentieth, That's why it's on our flag in North 328 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,920 Carolina marks the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the 329 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:45,480 Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence or the mech Deck for short 330 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,759 reading this piece over at the Charlotte Ledger by Tony 331 00:18:50,839 --> 00:18:57,200 Mescia and Christina Balling. The references to Charlotte. When you 332 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,400 see seventeen seventy five, if you see the name Captain Jack, 333 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:09,119 that's another one. Uh, James Jack, Captain James Jack. There's 334 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,519 a pilsner at Old Neck Brewery called the Captain Jack Pilsner. 335 00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:15,680 That's what that's. That's all in reference to the Mecklenberg 336 00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:20,000 Declaration of Independence, which depending on So you know, this 337 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,480 is where I get into trouble because to acknowledge a 338 00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:25,440 controversy means I'm taking a side, even though I have 339 00:19:25,519 --> 00:19:32,680 said that we should lean into this. This uh, this legend. 340 00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:36,960 It is the thing of legend because there's no physical 341 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,400 proof because the document doesn't exist. It burned in a fire. 342 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,559 And people who believe it, they say the all, there's 343 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,920 enough circumstantial evidence to lead you to believe that it 344 00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:51,839 did exist, it did happen. There are people who disagree. 345 00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:56,599 They say this was a faulty memory of old people 346 00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:00,599 decades after the fact, and uh, they're you know, they're 347 00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:05,680 trying to besmirch the legacy of Thomas Jefferson, so simply 348 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,359 going over And I feel the need to point this 349 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,839 out because every time I do this, every single year, 350 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,599 I get people yelling at me about you need to 351 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,319 just accept the historical thing where they say I'm an 352 00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:20,559 idiot and you're just lying or whatever. I'm giving you 353 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,400 that I'm laying out the controversy for you to decide. 354 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,599 My position has been for years, for years, and it 355 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,039 changed when I first came to Charlotte in nineteen ninety 356 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,640 nine and heard about the mech Deck got the book 357 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,559 chain of Errors, was reading through it and all that, 358 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,519 and at the time it was not fully embraced as 359 00:20:44,839 --> 00:20:47,319 the event that it is now. I mean there's now 360 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:52,799 a we have a like party going on in Charlotte 361 00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:55,079 today that never used to happen. I mean I shouldn't 362 00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:57,160 say never used to happen. There. There would be like 363 00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:00,799 some small gatherings and stuff, but it's because a bigger thing, 364 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,640 and it should because, as I have said four years, 365 00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:07,920 when the truth, when the when the legend becomes truth, 366 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,880 you print the legend right and Charlotte neat should lean 367 00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:16,960 into this and make it their thing. It ties us 368 00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:21,400 to history. It unites us in a common vision. There's 369 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,400 so there's a lot of good to be had from it. 370 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,400 So it's been a hotly debated topic though for roughly 371 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:37,799 two hundred years. Okay, so this is this is not 372 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,279 me I've been accused of, like, oh, just trying to 373 00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:42,960 stir the pod to make myself relevant. I think somebody 374 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,079 said once it's like, yeah, talking about two hundred fifty 375 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,519 year old document doesn't make one relevant. But the debate 376 00:21:51,599 --> 00:21:56,519 has existed. The debate over Mecklenburg's role in America's founding 377 00:21:56,599 --> 00:21:59,680 is so old that even Jefferson and Adams weighed in 378 00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:04,160 on it. Now, keep in mind at the time when 379 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,440 they weighed in on this, Jefferson and Adams they used 380 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,920 to be friends. Then they became bitter enemies for a 381 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,359 very very long time. And then I think, if memory 382 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:20,000 serves correctly, John's wife, Abigail, like said, you need to 383 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:22,119 reach out and you guys need to you need to 384 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,880 mend defenses here in your old age. And so they 385 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,680 started writing letters and such, and that's when you know, 386 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Adams wrote this letter to Jefferson like, hey, I found 387 00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:35,200 this newspaper article here talking about the Meckelberg Declaration of 388 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,920 Independence a full year before you wrote yours. What's up 389 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:38,240 with that? 390 00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:38,519 Speaker 2: Tom? 391 00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: Did you steal it? Like? That's that was the nature 392 00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:43,880 of the letter, you know, And of course Jefferson's like, 393 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,599 that's spurious, that's probably like in an old English accent 394 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,440 or something, but very angry at it. And and so 395 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,079 there isn't any physical copy of the declaration of independence. 396 00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:59,039 But you have these people who were alive at the time, 397 00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:03,880 who years later then gave an account of what they 398 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,759 said happened two hundred and fifty years ago today, which 399 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:12,240 was that they drafted a declaration of independence. They gave 400 00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:14,839 it to Captain James Jack and he rode his horse 401 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,519 all the way up to Philadelphia to the side of 402 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:26,000 the convention and he was like, hey, Mecklenburg County, you 403 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:31,039 know we're declaring independence. Check us out, and here's our 404 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:33,240 declaration of independence. Now. I don't know if there was 405 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:35,519 a copy that got lost up there. Maybe there was 406 00:23:35,559 --> 00:23:38,279 a fire up there too, I don't know. They I 407 00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:40,400 believe they said at the time that it was premature, 408 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:44,200 so they would not look at it. Now last year, 409 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:49,519 I think it was last year, or maybe it was. Yeah, No, 410 00:23:49,559 --> 00:23:54,119 I think it was last year. I had gone up 411 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,759 to New York to visit the folks over the summer, 412 00:23:59,599 --> 00:24:05,000 and we stopped halfway, and we picked different places to 413 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,240 stop when we drive it, and we picked Chambersburg. I 414 00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:11,759 did not pick Chambersburg, I forget. Who is my brother 415 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:13,559 and his family or my wife? I forget. But it 416 00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:17,400 was like halfway, so we stopped there and we're walking 417 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,240 around the little downtown area and I look up and 418 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:26,039 there's a sign and it says the John Jack Tavern. 419 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,160 On this site stood the John Jack Tavern, operated by 420 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,920 the family of James Jack, courier of the Mecklenburg Declaration 421 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,759 of Independence. The tavern was used from seventeen eighty four 422 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,799 until seventeen ninety four as a courthouse and jail for 423 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:50,359 Franklin County. Side note, I think that we should start 424 00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:57,519 having court in taverns again. I think this is what No, 425 00:24:57,599 --> 00:25:00,759 I'm just kidding, although it would it would for some 426 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:06,839 interesting reality TV. So they have a plaque to James 427 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:13,640 Jack citing the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania, 428 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:21,319 Franklin County, Pennsylvania. Did I say Virginia earlier? Is Pennsylvania. 429 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,319 When the legend becomes truth, you print the legend. And 430 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,079 this is a good legend for Charlotte. All right, So 431 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,640 spring is here a time of renewal and celebrations. You've 432 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,839 got graduations, weddings, anniversaries and especial days for mom and dad. 433 00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,519 Your family's making memories that are going to last a lifetime. 434 00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:41,319 But let me ask you, are all of those treasured 435 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:44,000 moments from days gone by? Are they hidden away on 436 00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:49,279 old VCR tapes, eight millimeter films, photos slides? Are they preserved? 437 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,079 Because over time, these precious memories can fade and deteriorate, 438 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,920 losing the magic of yesterday. At Creative Video, they help 439 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,440 you protect what matters most. Their expert team digit ties 440 00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:04,160 your cherished family moments and transfers them onto a USB drive, 441 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,599 freezing them in time so they can be enjoyed for 442 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,119 generations to come. I urge you do not wait until 443 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,000 it's too late this spring, celebrate your past. Visit Creative 444 00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:16,880 Video today and let them preserve your legacy with the 445 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,799 love and care that it deserves. Creative Video Preserving Family 446 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,279 Memories since nineteen ninety seven. Located in mint Hill, just 447 00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:27,400 off four eighty five mail orders are accepted to get 448 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,519 all the details that create a video dot com according 449 00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:35,880 to mechdeck dot org. And do believe the K goes 450 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,200 in there. I know some people write it without the K, 451 00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:45,200 but the K belongs mech deck, but no K on 452 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,240 the end of it. It's I don't make the language 453 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,880 rules here people. Anyway, between seventeen seventy five and eighteen nineteen, 454 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,880 the Mecklumberg Declaration of Independence was remembered and celebrated in 455 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,559 Mecklinberg County and to some extent in North Carolina, but 456 00:26:57,599 --> 00:27:00,359 no one outside of the state new or care much 457 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,559 about it. Only the declaration was remembered, and of the 458 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,319 United States Declaration, only that was remembered, And there was 459 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:13,079 no mention of the twenty one Resolves during this period, 460 00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:17,559 because there was another document called the Mecklenburg Resolves, which 461 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,799 was written up like I think ten days later or 462 00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:24,200 something like that, or it came out shortly after. And 463 00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:27,039 so the argument has been that you would draft the 464 00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:30,440 declaration first and then you would do the resolves after. 465 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,480 Now that's what supporters say. Detractors skeptics. They say that 466 00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:44,200 the people who forty years after the fact are asked 467 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,599 to recount whether or not this thing did occur. The 468 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,079 document was drafted, is it legit, did it actually happen? 469 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,839 And the eyewitness accounts that were given again forty years 470 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,960 after the fact, that they confused or conflated the resolves 471 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,039 with the Mecklamberg Declaration, so they called it a declaration, 472 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,640 but they were actually thinking about the results. So that 473 00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:13,160 was the disagreement. The people had been busy building a 474 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,279 new country and had paid little attention to their history. However, 475 00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:18,839 by eighteen nineteen thirty six years after the end of 476 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,480 the war, people were beginning to be interested in the 477 00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:24,519 history of the revolution. A debate arose as to whether 478 00:28:24,559 --> 00:28:27,720 the revolution was started in Virginia or in New England. 479 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,440 The North Carolina Assembly entered the discussion by asking doctor 480 00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:36,799 Joseph McNitt Alexander to go through the papers of his father, 481 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,759 the late John McNitt Alexander, who was the secretary of 482 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,640 the May twentieth meeting, and write up the story of 483 00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:47,400 the mech Deeck. He did so, and his report was 484 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,599 printed in the Raleigh Register on April thirtieth, eighteen nineteen. 485 00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:56,359 That would have been the end of it, except that 486 00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,960 former President John Adams saw a copy of that report 487 00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:04,880 and then sent it over to Thomas Jefferson, implying that 488 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,480 Jefferson had copied words and phrases from the Mech Deck 489 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,519 for his own July fourth, seventeen seventy six declaration of independence. 490 00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,000 Jefferson responded at length, saying that he thought the mech 491 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,480 Deck spurious and that he was an unbeliever in the document. 492 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,519 This exchange was a private correspondence known only to those 493 00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:28,279 two men. Again, the Mech Deck would have remained an 494 00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:33,720 interesting footnote in history, except that Jefferson's letter was then 495 00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:40,480 published after his death and thereby publicized. Jefferson's condemnation had 496 00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:43,599 to be answered, and so the North Carolina General Assembly 497 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000 appointed a committee to gather all of the documentary evidence 498 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,640 available and publish an official North Carolina state pamphlet on 499 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,880 the subject in eighteen thirty one. Since then, there have 500 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,880 been twelve books published on the subject, maybe more by 501 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,160 now lists, magazine and newspaper articles, and chapters in more 502 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,079 general history books. Again, according to the Mecklenburg County this 503 00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:15,920 is James Williams at the Mecklenburg Historical Association. He said 504 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,839 today there is a difference of opinion as to the 505 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,079 authenticity of the text of the Mech Deck. Many prominent 506 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,480 historians assert that the Mech Deck is spurious and they 507 00:30:24,519 --> 00:30:28,400 remain unbelievers, but others judge that a preponderance of evidence 508 00:30:28,519 --> 00:30:35,640 confirms the stated facts, and I say, lean into it, Charlotte. 509 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:40,480 This is a uniquely Charlotte kind of a story. So 510 00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:46,160 keep the legend, keep the facts, make the case, do 511 00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:52,160 the panel discussions, you know, debate the controversies, all of that, absolutely, 512 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,920 but own the mech Deck. So I'm glad to see 513 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,880 that the celebrations are getting bigger, and there's one today 514 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,720 actually going on right now. All right, that'll do it 515 00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:06,400 for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I 516 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,519 could not do the show without your support and the 517 00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:11,640 support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, so 518 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,759 if you'd like, please support them too and tell them 519 00:31:13,799 --> 00:31:15,759 you heard it here. You can also become a patron 520 00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:20,079 at my Patreon page or go to thepetecleanershow dot com. Again, 521 00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:22,839 thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything 522 00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:27,440 while I'm gone.