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Speaker 1: I've been thinking we need to talk to him about it.

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Speaker 2: He might not listen to me, but yeah, as good

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a time as any.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'll give it a go if he ever takes

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those ear forms out. Vaping is harmful to your child's health.

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Nicotine addiction can affect their concentration, sleep, and moods. They're

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much more likely to smoke when they're older, too, So

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take a deep breath and talk to them today. Get

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the facts about vaping and nicotine. Visit HSE dot I

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E forward slash vaping from the HSE.

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Speaker 2: Mum.

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Speaker 3: Why did they call it Scottish cheese?

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Speaker 4: It's cottage cheese, honey, And I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: Did the dogs in other countries speak different languages?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I think so.

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Speaker 4: When when we get there, well, we've got to fix

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the car first, but there's someone coming.

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Speaker 3: To help us. Is it the man from Geneva.

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Speaker 2: Not Geneva, he's from a Viva. Oh there's a van now.

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Speaker 5: For car insurance with breakdown rescue, it takes a Viva

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Visit a Viva dote to say fifteen percent acceptance criteria,

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terms and conditions apply. Minimum premium of three hundred and

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ten year old fifteen percent discount applies to new policies BottomLine.

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See Aviva dot I E for details. Car insurance is

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underwritten by a Viva Insurance Ireland DOC. A Viva Direct

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Arland Limited is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

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Speaker 6: Meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly flattening,

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wing big down in a force. Man, it gonna cause

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a tree fall, letting five thousand miles away.

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Speaker 2: Man, nobody seen, nobody else you know, mean no man

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the plug You follow a little story and you got

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directed collect that man. Don't like a dang on pan

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man matter man?

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Speaker 7: All right, Hey everyone, this is a little bit different

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than a normal episode. And so what I've done is

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cut together three other interviews I've done with prominent gun tubers,

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two a guys, not all on that topic. But these

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are faces and names. You will know. Some of these

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are quite old, right, Like I think the oldest is

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two or three years now. My episode with Brass Facts

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then Focused Trip was a little bit later, and the

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hop one wasn't too long ago. So check them out.

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Obviously you can find them elsewhere. But in addition to

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compiling them in one place, I also edited them.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 7: I made the audio sound better. It's something I've gotten

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more competent it. So back to normally scheduled programming next.

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This is a convenient way to get all that content

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in one place. And if you're new, obviously let me know.

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Glad to see you. And if there's anyone else you

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want to talk, want me to talk to, tell me

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who done in the comments? All right, thanks guys, appreciate it.

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All right, brass facts Brock, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: How you doing, man, I'm doing well. Thanks for having

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me on.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm excited to have you on.

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Speaker 2: It.

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Speaker 7: A funny story this. I reached out to you on Discord.

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I mean this well over a year ago and completely

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forgot about it didn't work out. I've been digging through

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your Discord group looking to sell some gear and I

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was like, oh, shoot, you shout to Broc. I should

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I should follow up on that because you did a

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video that was quite interesting about geopolitics. But hypothetically, my

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audience may not have heard you, heard of you, So

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could you describe kind of who you are and what

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you do for them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I guess YouTube's my third string activity. I

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started life as a political scientist and then that didn't

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really work out, so I got an engineering degree. Right

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about that time, I decided, you know what I'm gonna

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I need to share my opinion about gun gear autism

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and made a gun YouTube channel and then kind of,

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you know, the rest is history, as they say. But

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my first love, so to speak, as cringy as that sounds, well,

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it's probably video games. But I guess my second love

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would be I really like geopolitics and international relations. I

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really just that's kind of what I wanted to do.

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I didn't work out for me, but you know, you

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see spurts of it emerge on my my channel every

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once in a while.

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Speaker 7: So is that something you were you were drawn to

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as a kid, or is there some kind of inciting

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incident there.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's to a degree. I

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think it's kind of like that male desire. Did they

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just see an F sixteen and they're like, hell yeah,

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and uh, you know, uh, to a degree, A lot

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of dudes kind of just end up being drawn to that.

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And I guess I'm drawn to that just a little

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bit more than than most. But I've never gotten into

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a conversation like this with someone and that they haven't

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been interested in it. So yeah, there's no there's no

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specific moment we're kind of it mattered for me. I

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think I think I saw to kind of maybe give

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you less of a politician's answer. I think at some

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point I saw somebody, you know, explain something in geopolitical

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terms instead of just like the human factor of you know,

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why did George Bush and Beta rock Well w m

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D right, but then explain the actual, you know, behind

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the scenes version of that. And that was very eye opening, interesting,

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whatever you want to call.

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Speaker 7: Well definitely And you know I watched a video that

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you put out two weeks ago. This is really the

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genesis of this talk, and it was called when the

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United States Comes Home. And you know, I've primarily watched

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your stuff just because you know, I also have a

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dash of the gun autism, right, and I saw that

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that really firked up my ears. I was like, oh, shoot,

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like this is this is the language that I speak,

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and your your way of framing that as you know,

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kind of on a on a more human level than

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just basic you know, ours versus d politics. It's something

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that I'm really interested in, and you know, I sort

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of came to that through you know, more explicit political thinkers,

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you know, like Machiavelli, you know, basically looking at like, okay, well,

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what how do humans organize themselves? And obviously the kind

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of you know, meat and potatoes of politics certainly matters

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to a certain degree, you know, but if you're interested in, okay, well,

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how do these creatures called humans organize themselves? I think

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that's a much more interesting conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting thing, and maybe we can kind

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of dive into that in a bit. But if you

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meet an individual, they're going to act as an individual.

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But a lot of the genesis of political science and

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ir international relations is kind of this, this underlying assumption

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that humans, at the end of the day, when you

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view them as you know, from a far enough lens

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as a group, tend to act in a very similar

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or repeatable manner to a degree.

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Speaker 7: Well, that's what's interesting, right if I went to business school, unfortunately,

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and you hear about this Pareto principle, right, the eighty

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twenty rule. But what you don't realize as the Parreto

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and a number of other thinkers right developed that idea

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further to how you know that that same principle of

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you know, statistical analysis of you know, a business or

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kind of like workers on a factory floor. It kind

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of works when we look at again human society. So

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in your video you bring up this idea of geopolitical realism,

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and you know, political realism, which is obviously kissing cousins.

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It traces its lineage right to mock uability, and it's

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this idea of dealing with the world as it is

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versus how we would like it to be. So do

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you think that, one, first, that my definition of geopolitical

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realism is even close to right? And two do you

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think that that's different from sort of an ideological conception

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of how the world works? Uh?

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Speaker 2: Who that's a start out with a banger. Yeah, I

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think to a degree. I mean there's always everyone approaches

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it from a slightly different angle, right. My approach is

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very much a just a practical sense what can be

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learned from geopolitics. I don't truly believe that geopolitics has

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all the or not geopolitics, sorry, political science and specifically

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realist political ideology has all the answers, but it does

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at minimum a lot of our world leaders subscribe to

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this ideology. And you know the way of that way

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of viewing the world, so I can understand how they think.

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It kind of helps me understand why certain things can happen,

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I think fundamentally. Yeah, it's it's it's useful to kind

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of view the world that way.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 2: We always made jokes in polyside class, laughing at the

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collectivists or not collectivists, the the the more. Oh I

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forgot what the term is, but kind of individuous libertarian type,

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not necessarily libertarian, but but those that are like, oh, yeah,

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the human because I don't know how much your audience knows,

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but the realist school of thought is very much more.

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You know, they black box a lot of scenarios, right,

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like the country is a singular unit, all that stuff,

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and then you know, these guys come along and it's

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always like, oh, humans have individual choice and all that,

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and so it's always fun to laugh about that. What

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was the second question before I completely got off and two?

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Speaker 7: Oh, well, I was just gonna say, you know, do

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you view realism as an ideology or something kind of different?

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But I guess you answered that by referring it to

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as an ideology.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's it's I mean, in theory it

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could be an absolute truth, but we'll, we'll, we'll will

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never really know, right. You know, there's so many holes

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in all of the theories that you can really only

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view them as an ideology, right.

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Speaker 7: Well true, And I think that that's actually another another

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point to look at, right is that you know, viewing

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an ideology, it is fundamentally a model of reality, you know,

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and by virtue of being a model, it is imperfect.

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And I think that you know, you've probably read more

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you know, political science than I have, but you get

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to very goofy places if you decide, you know, I

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have found, you know, the one true rule for how

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all people work at all times, you know. And I

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think that it's it's it's important to temper this.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, I think your favorite I said, I

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think you said you read a lot of Meerscheimer. I

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think one of my favorite quotes from him is, you know,

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this guy's on top of the ir realist world, and

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he says, the best theory is only correct sixty percent

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of the time, and most theories are not the best

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theories or ideologies or whatever. I think that really illustrates it, right,

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These are good useful tools that we have to kind

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of view this world because humans need a story, a

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way to view the world, and it does do a

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lot in a lot of scenarios. But yeah, if it

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gets very dangerous very quickly, if you refuse to view

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the world in any other way, and don't you know,

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acknowledge to yourself that these are fundamentally human constructed theories

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to explain why we do the things we do.

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Speaker 7: All right, It's descriptive, not prescriptive. And I think that's

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a that's an important you know, if you were a

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hypothetical person evaluating hypothetical thinker, that's a very good way

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to look at someone and say, Okay, he's humble enough

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to admit that this has limited application, you know, and

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I think that that is a rare thing. So in

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your video, and it was quite a good one. Now

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I'll be sure to link it. One of the things

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that you bring up is this idea of the security dilemma.

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So do you want to explain what that term means

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and then maybe we can go into it a little

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bit from there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, let's see. How do I so maybe a

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slight detour before I jump into that. A thing that

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I had to really struggle with making that video for starters.

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It is all mostly from memory. But the second part

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was like, how do I explain something to an audience

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without belittling their intelligence, but also without just blasting way

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over their head and going into a shitloaded detail. So

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that was so I got a lot of flack on

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that video from both sides of the coin. It's like, ah,

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this is so basic as to be useless, or you

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didn't you know, I don't know what the hell you're

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talking about. But yeah, the security dilemma is essentially this

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assumption about how the world works at a geopolitical mass scale,

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but it also does apply to you know, day to

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day life if you want to kind of push it

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that way. But it's in a I'll take the Meersheimer

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version of the security dilemma. It's this fear of the unknown,

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of your opposition that drives you to do certain things. Right,

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that's the ten thousand foot overview. But if you kind

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of zoom in a little bit more, the security dilemma

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specifically is, you know, hypothetically, I'm build building up the

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strength on in my country because I don't want to die, right,

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because that's a thing that happens in the world. If

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you have no military, you'll get taken over, and another

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country does the same thing us without being able to

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read that other person's mind and having any way to

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truly trust them that there are no systems in place

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for that. Will see his very large build up of

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the military, even if it's only defensive nature, and get

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nervous myself, and then you know, my side of the

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table starts building up my military, and then his side

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of the table starts building up the military. I start

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viewing his intentions that were purely defensive nature as a

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prospect for build up, and this kind of ping pong

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is back and forth until you get what essentially is

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an arms race or something to that effect. Now, there

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are different ways to kind of, you know, apply this

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to the real world, but the big fundamental issue that

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kind of makes the security the dilemma spicy is that

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in a lot of times throughout human history, offense was

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favored over defense. So you get this thing where you

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can't trust the enemy and you don't know their intentions,

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and you see this build up, and then you add

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the final piece to the pie of the security dilemma,

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and that is offense is very much favored over defense.

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So you get a lot of preemptive action. It kind

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of leads to a situation where war seems to happen

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when no one actually wants war to happen. Ooh, it

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wasn't the best explanation, but.

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Speaker 7: No, I think you did it. And one of the

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things that flows from that is that idea that it's

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actually very difficult to say who started a war. You know,

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you hear a lot in and I think a lot

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of it is sort of posturing for international opinion, right,

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But it's an idea of like, oh, you know, they

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struck us first. But if you look at kind of

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an older understanding of this, it's like, well, he did

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you really right? There's it's like what you said, there's

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a build up before, there's some posturing. You know, there's

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kind of both. In many cases, both societies kind of

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get on a war footing. And so it's like watching

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a fist fight, right, you see two guys square up,

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you know, they just maybe start saying things toward each other,

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and then one of them throws a punch and it's like, okay,

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from like a go to jail perspective, yes he started

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the fight, Okay, but did he really right? This was

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sort of a usual thing, and I think that that's

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that's something to bear in mind as well when we

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come to that question of like can you ever really

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get rid of conflict? You know, because a lot of

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what we're talking about is based on this idea that

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you know, they're sort of inbuilt facets to human organization,

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human nature, and at least from my perspective, it seems like,

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you know, as awful as conflict is, as awful as

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war is, it's sort of fundamental to humans, right. I

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don't think we can ever get around that. And I

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think that the security dilemma and that idea of offensive realism,

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sometimes it is logical to take the first swing. I

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think it kind of prevents us from ember getting around conflict.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And for those in the audience that might want

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to read more into this, security dilemma is a play

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on the prisoner's dilemma, and the prisoner's dilemma is a

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thought experiment to illustrate why when two entities are benefited

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from working together. Right, So, the in the geopolitical sense,

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it's not going to war, why they end up going

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to war, But in the prisoner's dilemma, it's two prisoners

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that are you know, they work together on a crime

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and now they're being arrested, and if they neither of

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them tell on each other, don't go to jail. But

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the risk of going to jail. Just just look it up.

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It's a it's a thought experiment, and it kind of

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explains at a very basic level what exactly the security

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dilema is.

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Speaker 7: But I think that that's interesting as well, you know,

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because obviously you're in the in the preparedness space, and

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you know, one of the things that I think is

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is interesting about that space, and we'll go back to

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the topic at hand, is that you sort of have

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kind of two expectations, right, and one is much more

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popular than the other. And it's this sort of kind

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of like unspecified vision of Mad Max, right where it's

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like something bad will happen and it will turn into

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you know, like the Hobbsey and all versus all you know,

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to just be like raiders wearing like leather and eating

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people's faces. And you know, when you when you look

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at a situation, you know where there is scarce resources, right,

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what we call an economic scarcity, and there are people

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who have kind of aims confer to one another conflict

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certainly arises, but again, right, at least when we kind

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of like map this out, it's generally a logical decision, right,

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Very few people are these kind of like absolute psychopaths.

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And so I'm curious, do you see that kind of like, yeah,

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a prisoner's dilemma situation. Do you see that in a

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you know, in not like a hypothetical like loss of

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rule of law or do you think it only applies

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to these large kind of like institutions.

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Speaker 2: So there, Yeah, sorry, it's it's a much more complicated

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question to answer in that dynamic because a lot of

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what so, the prisoner's dilemma is a very insulated you

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know example, and the security dilemma kind of makes all,

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like I said, black boxes a lot of stuff where

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it assumes these countries are single entities and they're operating

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on very linear kind of paths. When as soon as

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you start bringing humans in, you begin to see the

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pitfalls of these these hyper simplified theories. Right, So I think, yeah,

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you could absolutely come up with a scenario where, especially

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if you get a little more flexible with definitions, where yeah,

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there are certain scenarios where humans don't fundamentally just want

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to be left alone to do their own thing. But

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in a post collapse, and you don't even need to

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go as hardcore as mad Max. Post collapse, you can

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go to you know, temporary loss of rule of law,

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partial loss of rule of law. You can even go

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to just minor civil unrest. And we've seen some of

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that where you know, on one hand, we have the

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fundamental truth that people generally want to be left alone,

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but competing interests, competing desires, and then you know, sprinkle

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in some you know, four horsemens of the apocalypse of frustration,

359
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you know, class inequality, and you get a bunch of

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people just fundamentally doing things.

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Speaker 7: That are bad or against each other. Right, fair enough.

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So the next point I want to bring up is

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you mentioned in this that part of the reason for

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this kind of desire to you know, desire to kind

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of instigate a conflict, is it effectively the consequences for

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losing the game of power are quite severe. So one,

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what would you say that those consequences are And is

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that something that has kind of changed recently or are

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those you know, roughly the same over time.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming we're talking back at the geopolitical level, right.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, sorry, I that was a brief digression. Now

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we're back to what we're actually supposed to be talking

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about instead of some random question that popped into my head.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no worries, No worries. I just want to be

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making sure I don't go off on a diet drive

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on the wrong thing. Yeah. I mean you can kind

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of look at history, you can. You can, I mean,

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you can even look at current events to what happens

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to countries that aren't adequately prepared and the circumstance kind

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of comes together and they get invaded and then they

381
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can just get destroyed.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: I think in recent history we kind of look over

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certain countries that have lost war, you know, to such

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an extreme level that they get you know, uh, completely defeated, right,

386
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you know, this partial defeat and complete defeat, And sometimes

387
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it paints the wrong image. Right, America was very generous

388
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in the countries she defeated in World War Two. But

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you only need to dial back history and realize how

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many countries that no longer exist. And you know, it's

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going to depend from person to person and how nationalistic

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you are, how much you care about your culture, so

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on and so forth. But at least from my perspective,

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you know, beyond the innate desire for reproduction and the

395
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fact that you're you know, your civilization is being wiped

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out essentially, there's also you know, cultural stuff. You know,

397
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I'm very proud of, you know, my culture. I'm very

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proud of my history. I'm very proud of so and so.

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I will die eventually, but that will remain. But if

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your country that's destroyed, completely annihilated, you are potentially, depending

401
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on how well history is kept and how generous you're

402
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the state that defeated you is, you may either see

403
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that history completely erased, modified to be more flattering towards them,

404
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or completely altered, you name it. Right, So, I think

405
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that's probably one of the worst things that could ever

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happen to a culture.

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Speaker 7: Well, and I think that you you know, you see

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that even in you know, what was what some thinkers

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had planned for Germany, right, you know, the the extremes

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of right, the Morgenthau Plan, which is this idea that

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you know, Germany would never be allowed to be a

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people at all, you know, they'd be reduced to a

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subsistence to agriculture. And obviously that dude was nuts and

414
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you know, whatever you say about Neede notification, that didn't

415
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happen or even on the ancient scale, right with the

416
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I mean like tribal warfare, right, this idea that you know,

417
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everyone would be killed, right, the women would be taken away,

418
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you know, some people would be taken as slaves, and

419
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effectively one group would completely erase another. You know. The

420
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example I always go back to on this is is

421
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a book called Scalp Dance, right, which is sort of

422
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a chronicle of you know, the wars with the Plains Indians,

423
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and that was sort of this mutual war of destruction, right,

424
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there were these horrible massacres on both sides where effectively,

425
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you know, it wasn't like what we would like Napoleonic War.

426
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It's like, okay, well you know you've lost, so the

427
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general gives you, gives me a sword. You know, we

428
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exchange you know, sort of a salute, and then I

429
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give you your sword back because you were an honest guy,

430
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and you know, we signed some papers. It was basically, okay,

431
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you've lost. Now if I find your village just gone,

432
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you know, so there's nothing left. And obviously, you know,

433
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I don't want to go back to that that's a

434
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bad thing, but that is sort of the kind of

435
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like programming in the back of your brain to avoid

436
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,039
losing it all costs, right, is to avoid that sort

437
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of like genetic erasure.

438
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and who knows if we're ever going to go

439
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back to that. Think humanity has gotten better about not

440
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completely annihilating cultures from the history books to a degree,

441
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,680
I think, So it's hard to say if we're ever

442
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going to have another you know, American you know, Indians

443
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versus the Western colonizers situation where they just get completely blasted,

444
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you know, for the lack of a better term, or

445
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you know, I mean Poland eventually came out of it.

446
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But Poland's kind of the to a degree, it's not

447
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a joke of history, but a good example of a

448
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country that on paper is fundamentally very powerful but keeps

449
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kind of getting the shaft for you know, fifty to

450
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one hundred year increments.

451
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Speaker 7: Yeah, they're very There are very few worse positions to

452
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be and than Poland. In the last two hundred and

453
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fifty years, they've really got that. They really good. Yeah. Yeah.

454
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So one of the other things you mentioned is this

455
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idea of ed Jamah. Can you explain what you mean

456
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when you say that phrase. Yeah.

457
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Speaker 2: So, in geopolitic geopolitics, typically stuff is divided into major powers,

458
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minor powers, and then occasionally regional powers, and that that

459
00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:09,279
distinction is essentially right, like I don't know if you've

460
00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:11,680
ever played Hearts of Iron, Right, there's some overpowered countries

461
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,079
in some underpowered countries, and then there's some really overpowered countries.

462
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And you know, I think everyone fundamentally understands it, right,

463
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:25,880
A Germany or a UK or France is fundamentally just

464
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a you know, from a military standpoint, which is what

465
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a lot of geopolics geopolitics care about, is fundamentally just

466
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a quote unquote better nation than a Grease or a

467
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:40,119
you know, Denmark. Right. So those would be the you know,

468
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the distinctions between a minor power and a you know,

469
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major power. And then you get to something like potentially

470
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like a regional power, which is the kind of an

471
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extension of that where it's able, you know, the major

472
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powers in the regions aren't just competing, but one of

473
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them is able to kind of get to a point

474
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where it is the dominant power of that region. An

475
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,200
important thing with a regional major power is it's still struggling,

476
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,640
you know, it still has got to contend with the

477
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,039
fact that all the other major powers are going to

478
00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:11,920
pounce on top of it and kill the shit out

479
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,920
of it should they ever mistake a misstep, you know,

480
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:16,440
become weak whatever.

481
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:16,839
Speaker 7: I mean.

482
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,039
Speaker 2: Look at look what happened to so many other nations

483
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,839
like Spain, the amount of times people tried the dogpile

484
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,440
on Britain, China, to sort of a lesser degree, a

485
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:30,279
lot of the levant nations. And when you get to

486
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,200
something like called a hedgemon, or at least a regional hedgemon,

487
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:38,200
is when that that major power, regional major power, you know,

488
00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:40,200
did a line of cocaine, and now that thing is

489
00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:44,400
so powerful that it not only can you know, dominate

490
00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:46,720
its own region, but it's so powerful that it can

491
00:25:46,799 --> 00:25:48,519
you know, it's like the cartoon where it's got one

492
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,279
hand on the like one person and then puts the

493
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:53,400
hand on the other person. It has now become so

494
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,559
powerful it can handle its own region and not be

495
00:25:56,759 --> 00:25:59,279
worried about being destroyed by its own region and begin

496
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:03,440
influence seeing other regions. Right, And that's a very useful

497
00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:06,039
thing to have as a state, because it means well,

498
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,839
I can't die to my own region, but I can

499
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,880
also dibble, dabble and mess around with other regions, such

500
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,000
as those other regions never get strong enough to contest

501
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,119
me here at this region. And that is a very

502
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,440
powerful thing to have because it means, you know, your

503
00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:22,799
longevity is secured. And then we get to the what

504
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:26,240
is what some people, you know, obviously very debatable, get

505
00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:29,839
to what America is, and it's a global hedgemon. Everyone

506
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,880
everywhere is America's backyard, functionally speaking, more or less. Right,

507
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,119
there's some areas where America is more powerful, some were

508
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,559
areas where America is less powerful. But America doesn't need

509
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,160
to be worried about, you know, South America invading it.

510
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,480
It doesn't need to be worried about Canada invading it,

511
00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:47,200
partially because we're allies, partially because that would not be

512
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:50,079
a fair fight for anyone involved. But we're also so

513
00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:53,960
powerful that we are influencing multiple regions in the world

514
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,720
to our liking, so on and so forth, and you get,

515
00:26:56,759 --> 00:26:57,519
you know, hedgemont.

516
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 7: So I think that that's a really interesting way to

517
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:04,640
describe it. It is something that you know, has become

518
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,240
popular in my circle as well. They use the term

519
00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:10,759
the global American empire right to kind of describe that.

520
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,799
And I think one of the ways you can see

521
00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:17,440
it is in cultural terms, right, American culture is everywhere.

522
00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:21,200
You know, our kind of tastes are reflected the world over.

523
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,319
So what are some ways in which you know America

524
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,519
has sort of established itself as an empire? Say, I'm

525
00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:30,119
not convinced you know that America is an empire? How

526
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:30,839
would you convince me?

527
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:35,599
Speaker 2: I mean, starting with what you you just said. You know,

528
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,720
the realists won't like this nearly as much. But America's

529
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,799
winning or has has won the culture war per se, right,

530
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:49,039
because that term means something nowadays. But like you said, America,

531
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,799
American culture is has become most of the world's culture. Now,

532
00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:57,119
you might say, you know, Japan's Japan, you know Britain's Britain,

533
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,400
but we've influenced them in such a way that it's

534
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,039
not even considered anymore. So on that vein alone, America

535
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,000
is already dominant, right, But then you can get, you know,

536
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,759
to keep it in a realist vein, you can get

537
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:16,279
in kind of a military perspective of America being dominant. Now,

538
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,160
I think people are going to keep looking for the

539
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,960
situations where America is not dominant, and there's always small

540
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,960
little idy bitty bits that you can find anywhere. But

541
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,440
you can play a game of what geo guests are

542
00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:30,000
and just put a pin on a random point on

543
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:32,279
a map, and chances are you're within missile range of

544
00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:35,519
an American base or you're within striking distance of an

545
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:38,519
aircraft carrier strike group within twenty four hours. Right from

546
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:42,640
that perspective, From the hard power perspective, America is there,

547
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,960
and you can kind of meld those two together, soft

548
00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:49,599
power and hard power to get just really something that

549
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,400
we haven't seen ever in human history. Right, Like we

550
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:55,880
talk about the amount of times the Gulf of Four

551
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,920
Moves has been, you know, under attacked by regional powers

552
00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:01,759
in the area, which always are going to have a

553
00:29:01,839 --> 00:29:04,200
home field advantage, and then a couple days later America

554
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,200
shows up and that's not a problem anymore. But the

555
00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:09,839
soft power aspects combined with that military power, you know,

556
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,920
a country just take gets the worst earthquake in human history,

557
00:29:13,359 --> 00:29:16,400
and America is able to show up with a force

558
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,200
to kind of provide humanitarian aid on a level that's

559
00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:22,519
never been seen before. Right, No one else has that

560
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,359
level of funding, willpower, and ability to just drop like

561
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,599
something like war's amount of funding per day just on

562
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,559
a whim out of goodwill. So there's so many aspects.

563
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,920
It's hard to actually answer that question in a lot

564
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,720
of ways because it's so self evident that it becomes

565
00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:42,519
hard to describe. Well.

566
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 7: And there's an infographic it's gone around the internet for

567
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,359
a long time, and it's a map of the world.

568
00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:51,799
It's a heat map, right, and it shows the distribution

569
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,200
of Roman currency, right, So obviously it's around the Mediterranean,

570
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,480
you know, everywhere in the Empire, but as far away

571
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,160
as you know, China, India, you know, they're kind of

572
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,400
like the west coast of Africa, East coast, west coast.

573
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,000
I get it mixed up the other side of Africa.

574
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,880
And what's interesting in that is you see also the

575
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,319
the commercial aspect, right that you're you're one hundred percent

576
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,440
right about the soft power that is culture, you know,

577
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,799
the hard power. I feel like it is incontrovertible, right,

578
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,279
It's like who else has twelve aircraft carriers? But I

579
00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:22,880
think that there's something too as well, which is like,

580
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:28,480
you know, until relatively recently, the American dollar was accept

581
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:31,559
it was accepted everywhere, you know, with with notable exceptions.

582
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,799
And I think that you know, being that kind of

583
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,079
like you know that the economic powerhouse, the cultural powerhouse,

584
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,599
and the military powerhouse. I mean, okay, maybe you don't

585
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,799
like the term hedgemon, but it's pretty hard to argue

586
00:30:44,839 --> 00:30:48,000
that America is the biggest dog on the or the

587
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,119
biggest kid on the playground.

588
00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:53,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's important not to get emotionally invested

589
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:55,559
in some of these terms because I think people view

590
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,039
this like good guy, bad guy, or you know, like

591
00:30:58,119 --> 00:31:01,759
a like a narrative in a you know, when when

592
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:06,400
you say America American ooh, sorry, drinking some soda, so

593
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,759
I've gotten some burps. When you say America is a

594
00:31:09,799 --> 00:31:11,759
world hedgemon, I mean that that's kind of more of

595
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:13,960
an objective fact. It's not like I'm rooting for them

596
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:15,759
or I'm not rooting for them, though you know, I

597
00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:18,839
obviously have my own personal preferences. Or when you say

598
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,319
American culture is universal, you know that that might be

599
00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:23,880
a good thing, that might be a bad thing, but

600
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:27,119
an important thing. With political science and any science, you know,

601
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:29,880
some scientists might be upset that I just called political

602
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,519
science and actual science but you know it's important to

603
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:36,200
view it, you know, objectively from a third party, thirty

604
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:40,519
party perspective, because data to be gained there, right, And

605
00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:41,119
this is.

606
00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 7: Why I started this off with this idea of you know,

607
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,559
we're dealing with what is not what what is what

608
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,839
we believe ought to be? You know, you and I

609
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,640
are not saying here and we're you know, sitting here like, yes,

610
00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:54,799
you know, America should rule every inch of this planet.

611
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:58,640
And actually I got into this with some more shall

612
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,079
we say, some more baby boomers. I wrote a piece

613
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:03,960
for The Blaze and I mentioned this idea of America

614
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,000
as an empire, and I was I was treated to

615
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,440
this this kind of emotional response is like, no, America

616
00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:11,839
is not an empire or republic. I'm like, okay, that's

617
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,119
not what I meant. You know, it's not what I meant.

618
00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:16,279
And I think that it's a It's glad that you

619
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:19,119
brought that up to kind of take this away from

620
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,519
you know, the emotional frame you know this is this

621
00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:24,119
does not mean empire in the Star Wars sense, right.

622
00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:31,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, American empire is very different from historical empires,

623
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,279
Like there is American land isn't like physically ruled over land.

624
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:39,880
Isn't significantly larger than it's ever been, and in fact,

625
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,359
it's it's gotten smaller in a lot of ways. But

626
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,440
it's a very it's something we haven't really seen before.

627
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:51,359
It's it's it's the conjunction of a build American just

628
00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:56,319
extreme military might combined with an economic system that we

629
00:32:56,559 --> 00:33:00,279
make very strong strides to keep operational good or bad,

630
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,039
combined with the American soft you know, cultural reach that

631
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,079
is also just by as like a side effect, kind

632
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:10,839
of spread out everywhere. Is it literally an empire? No,

633
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,960
it's not an empire. America doesn't literally rule the world.

634
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:17,079
No one thinks America literally rules the world. But it's

635
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:19,480
the closest we've ever, you know, been to something like this.

636
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,759
So empire is used because the English language is imprecise

637
00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:23,960
and it gets the point across.

638
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 7: So what is the term rules based international order mean

639
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:30,960
and how is it relevant to this conversation?

640
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a I mean that that's a very

641
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,079
long topics. I'll try to keep it very dense and

642
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:41,519
dense and concise, concise, and in order to understand what

643
00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:44,599
rules in international rations, you kind of have to approach

644
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,799
it from a philosophical point of view of before major

645
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,599
powers are before you know, hedgemon and regional powers existed

646
00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:56,799
in that there technically are no rules, right you wind

647
00:33:56,839 --> 00:33:58,799
the clock back far enough. And I'm not talking like

648
00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:01,680
you know, Stone ages or something like that, though technically

649
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,519
would apply then to.

650
00:34:03,119 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 7: Somebody's dragging Hannibal before the Hague, right, yeah.

651
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's no systems, there's no rules back then,

652
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,559
and I think you know, most people might be thinking

653
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:17,400
about the UN, but it's it's even simpler than that, right, Like,

654
00:34:17,559 --> 00:34:20,800
if let's just pick a generic country, right, if Japan

655
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:25,079
invades Korea in the sixteen hundreds, fifteen nine, whatever, not

656
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,480
that they did. But you know, if country A invades

657
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:32,599
country be, you know what's the ramification. There are no

658
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,519
ramifications other than country C being like ooh, it's my

659
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:37,719
time to strike. But that's not rules, right, that's just

660
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:42,079
opportunistic stuff. So there really aren't any rules in the

661
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,239
international system because there's no one to enforce the rules,

662
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,960
and all that really happens is you know, action and

663
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:53,559
then you know reaction, and then action reaction, action reaction.

664
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 7: So for a lot of.

665
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 2: Human history, we kind of use this phrase that international

666
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,320
politics or in geopolitican is a thing or system of anarchy,

667
00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:05,480
not in the sense that you know, everyone's going around

668
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:08,360
mad Max style, but in the sense that there is

669
00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:12,480
no system in place to punish bad behavior other than

670
00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:14,559
if a country wants to do that, but then there's

671
00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:17,079
probably likely other reasons. So that gets us to the

672
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,599
you know, rules in the international system. How do you

673
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,760
have rules in the international system? Well, for a while

674
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,440
there there really was no way other than you know,

675
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:29,400
countries coming together and agreeing to certain things. Right, how

676
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:33,559
warfare should be fought was a big one. But funnily,

677
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,119
at the end of the day, there wasn't there. You know,

678
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,400
the rule breaker was was rewarded.

679
00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:39,639
Speaker 4: Right.

680
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: You know, if you have a rule about fighting war

681
00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:44,320
in a very humane way and then you come out

682
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,360
of the gate and you fight the most brutal war

683
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,639
in existence, you have a head start because wow, you

684
00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:51,719
didn't give a shit about those rules and your enemies did. Right.

685
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,639
There is no higher power to enforce these rules right

686
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:57,880
in the same way where you and me, as you know,

687
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,079
citizens of a country say what you want about it,

688
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:03,519
there is a monopoly of violence in that country. And

689
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:06,519
if we break the rules as outlined, we get our

690
00:36:06,519 --> 00:36:12,079
peep slaped hard with bullets. So that gets us to

691
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:15,960
international relations. What is that higher power? Well, turns out

692
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,039
it's America right now. America has done its best effort

693
00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:23,559
to kind of codify these rules and something that's a

694
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:26,360
little more fair and a little less you know, authoritarian.

695
00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:29,000
And we have stuff like the Brenton Woods Institutions. We

696
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:31,440
have you know, the UN as a whole where a

697
00:36:31,519 --> 00:36:33,719
lot of you know, countries come together and agree upon

698
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,280
what those rules might be. But at the end of

699
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,719
the day, you know, the jokes about the UN are

700
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,840
based on some degree of fact. It is ultimately backed

701
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,719
up by the United States and her allies and mostly

702
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,679
just the United States of like, hey, if you do

703
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,400
something bad, we're gonna punish you. And we see that, right,

704
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,119
you do something bad, sanctions, you do something bad. Sanctions,

705
00:36:54,199 --> 00:36:56,440
you do something bad. Oh my god, that country just

706
00:36:56,519 --> 00:36:59,880
got more funding than the you know, the last forty

707
00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:02,639
years of American funding combined, right, Like, you know, that's

708
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,599
that's what it looks like. That's what rules in the

709
00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:05,679
international scene look like.

710
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 7: Well, I think one of the things that is, and

711
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,239
this is perhaps question we will get we will get

712
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,039
too later. But the questions I wonder, is does that

713
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:17,800
you know, because I think that you're you're right that

714
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,920
that order that you know, rules based order is basically

715
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:26,119
America in France? Right, is that that does that order

716
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:29,840
outlast the American Empire? You know, which I realized that

717
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,880
opening up a whole can of worms. We can maybe

718
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,840
get into later. But I do think that's an interesting question,

719
00:37:35,039 --> 00:37:38,559
like have we managed to create something longer lasting than ourselves?

720
00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:42,039
Speaker 2: Depends on who you ask, right, It depends on who

721
00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:44,840
you ask. Like some people will argue that, you know,

722
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:49,679
the the Western the Western ideology, the Western way of life,

723
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,639
the Western way of thinking, you know, secular thing, all

724
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,880
that stuff, you know, has surpassed America, and if America

725
00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:59,000
got thanos snapped out of existence, that other countries in

726
00:37:59,039 --> 00:38:02,559
the world would keep that. And there's certainly some strong

727
00:38:04,119 --> 00:38:06,320
argumentation for that. I think that the strongest version of

728
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,599
that has been like democratic peace theory, right, democratic nations

729
00:38:09,639 --> 00:38:12,079
don't fight other democratic nations because the people get pissed

730
00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:14,800
off when you do that, because they're so interconnected. And

731
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,639
then there's arguments, you know that globalization be utter extreme,

732
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,360
you know, at like the granual level, granul level. Well,

733
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,960
I can't talk. Interconnection of the economies of different countries

734
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,320
has made it so war that we've seen in the

735
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,679
past could never happen again, and that that globalization is

736
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,039
kind of an American ideal. So even without America, globalization

737
00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:40,199
has the potential to persist and prevent you know, a

738
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,440
return to you know, a pre America world. You know,

739
00:38:43,559 --> 00:38:47,239
not literally pre America, but pre global hedge amount America.

740
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,960
So there's a lot of argumentation that, yeah, yeah, America

741
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:57,400
isn't required into this anymore because America is everyone's got

742
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,519
a little American in them too. You know, it sounds

743
00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:03,239
kind of stupid, but yeah, like people agree of most

744
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,599
of the world has come to agree on the system

745
00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:08,440
being valid, so it doesn't need America to kind of

746
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,280
perpetuate it. But then there's the more realist perspective of, no,

747
00:39:12,519 --> 00:39:16,199
this is as cool as this is. The only reason

748
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,360
this is going on is because there's a guy with

749
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,039
a really big stick running around and every time you

750
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:24,719
break the rules in her eyes, you get hit with

751
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,840
the stick, and that's what's keeping everything going. So yeah,

752
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,559
it depends on who you ask on if it's going

753
00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:31,800
to outlast America or not.

754
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 7: Well, well, Brock I think you need to All you

755
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,000
need to do is take a look at my profile

756
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:40,559
picture and you can probably get my general outlook on

757
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:42,199
the Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

758
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 2: Most realistic are of the opinion that maybe not complete

759
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,960
collapse of the system, but a return to like a

760
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:53,320
multipolar world of sort, which probably is going to have

761
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,280
a lot of similarities with the world we live in,

762
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:59,960
but also not right, certain systems are propped up by America.

763
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, it seems to be that the chat has fundamentally misunderstood.

764
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:07,880
You were naming two sides of an argument, not saying

765
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,360
two things in complete contradiction that you believe. So we're

766
00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:14,119
just sing the death of nuance in real time in

767
00:40:14,199 --> 00:40:14,519
the chat.

768
00:40:14,599 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The first thing I talked about is

769
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,920
generally considered a liberal point of view, and not liberal

770
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,920
in the sense of American liberalism, right, not that liberalism,

771
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,440
but like geopolitical liberalism, which is very ideas based, and

772
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,079
you know, as I described, right, that's that's political science liberalism.

773
00:40:36,159 --> 00:40:40,039
They believe it's kind of surpassed the state in some ways.

774
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,599
And then you know what the version two, where you know,

775
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,480
the system can't keep going because the the gen the

776
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:49,599
thing that's keeping the system going is going to die,

777
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,760
right America or potentially will die, And that's kind of

778
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:53,960
the more realist point of view.

779
00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 7: So, uh, why do you think that first world countries,

780
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,679
particularly you know, countries involved in NATO are are and

781
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,840
obviously this trend that I guess is kind of reversed

782
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,440
in the last two years to a prominent real world happening,

783
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,840
but have historically spent very little on their own defense.

784
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:22,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's how what's the simplest way to

785
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,760
put it, I mean, why would they write? You know,

786
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,239
militaries are comically expensive. It's one of the most expensive historically,

787
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,840
it's one of the most expensive things five percent of GDP,

788
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,599
ten percent of GDP. And then the reality is you

789
00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:38,840
kind of need to train with that military. Militaries are

790
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,840
very expensive. And then the hilarious thing about militaries is

791
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,920
they kind of just atrophy. Right, if you don't keep

792
00:41:45,079 --> 00:41:47,920
investing into your military with R and D training and more,

793
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:51,880
you're going to have a really crappy military. You know,

794
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:55,719
look to current events for that one. Right, The military

795
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,880
is a consistent investment and if you don't use that military,

796
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,840
you know, retroactively, you look back at it and you're

797
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,480
like Wow, those last thirty years of military spending were pointless. Right,

798
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:09,480
That could have been spent towards hyper you know, charging

799
00:42:09,559 --> 00:42:12,119
my economy, That could have been spent on humanitarian stuff,

800
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:14,920
That could have been spent on you know, progressive things, right,

801
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,119
like less taxes, you know, medical or whatever.

802
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 7: Right.

803
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: But historically you have to have a military. It was

804
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:25,119
non negotiable. But what if you exist in a system

805
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:27,719
where you know, there's a couple, you know, a couple

806
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,440
half dozen bases in Germany with the biggest military of

807
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,360
all time, like in that base, what why bother building

808
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:39,480
a military your military like the full deployment strength of Denmark, Sweden,

809
00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:43,559
It's almost nothing by comparison if this military shows up.

810
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,480
So these countries are very much incentivized not to do

811
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,920
that because frankly, why would they. Right, they're not going

812
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,079
to be the lynchpin in the defense of the nation.

813
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,119
Now I'm not saying they don't have a military, but

814
00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:57,639
they're not going as hard as they might would if

815
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,719
you know, all the European nations were responsible solely for

816
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:01,760
their own survival.

817
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 7: Well, I think also if they were at all worried

818
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,559
that other European nations would sort of come knocking, right,

819
00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:12,880
like the idea that I don't know, Denmark would invade

820
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,599
Sweden in current year, it's almost laughable to say it, right,

821
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:17,559
No one's actually concerned about that anymore.

822
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, the more interesting version of that is, you know,

823
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,360
Germany versus France versus you know, England, right, these were

824
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,519
the countries that have never happened before. I don't I

825
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:32,760
don't think that's purely hypothetical. But these countries have historically

826
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,800
been not the best of homies, and you know, we

827
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,280
would think they would be militarizing against each other, but

828
00:43:39,559 --> 00:43:42,000
fundamentally they've they've all been kind of put on the

829
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:45,000
same page, at least in the short term, right or

830
00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:48,960
not short term. It's been decently long. But at this time,

831
00:43:49,039 --> 00:43:50,920
you know, they're all homies, that they're not afraid of

832
00:43:51,079 --> 00:43:54,400
them attacking each other. And there's also that collective aspect.

833
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,239
Even if there was an America, you know, NATO slash

834
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,159
EU is a very large conglomerate of military power. Someone

835
00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:06,360
would have to be really stupid to attack at this time.

836
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 7: So we've sort of obliquely referenced the idea that the

837
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,519
US Empire kind of could or is in the process

838
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,280
of you know, losing its status as a global hedgemon.

839
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,039
Do you see this as something that's happening. Do you

840
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:25,840
see this as sort of an inevitable occurrence in any empire,

841
00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:27,639
or do you think that America is just going to

842
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,159
kind of keep sailing as you know, the ruler of

843
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:30,519
the world.

844
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: I mean, you you got to kind of approach this

845
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,239
from two points of view. I think historically looking back

846
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,159
will know the answer. But right now we don't really

847
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,440
know the answer. So we kind of have that we

848
00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:45,719
can kind of throw some stuff at the wall and

849
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,360
kind of, you know, guess to that effect. From the perspective,

850
00:44:49,679 --> 00:44:55,880
like perception based, America is absolutely losing ground big time. Right.

851
00:44:56,159 --> 00:45:00,440
You mentioned Europe not spending any you know anything. They're

852
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,880
starting to spend stuff now, right, They're starting to build

853
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,079
up their militaries and that in small part, you know,

854
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:07,960
it's not all of it, but a small part of

855
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,519
that is loss of trust that America is going to send,

856
00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:14,920
you know, ten plus divisions over the ocean, you know,

857
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,000
if something bad happens in Europe to the point where

858
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:19,880
that's needed. Right, some of that is based on the

859
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,760
fear that America won't be there. Look at Japan. Japan

860
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,760
is very very happy to not have a military, right,

861
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,320
It's been very useful for them to have a micro

862
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:33,400
military relative to their economy size, especially now right Japan's

863
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,679
not doing so hot economically, you know, over the last

864
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,239
like thirty years or so, so you know, they'd love

865
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,960
to not have the military. But what are we observing.

866
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,639
We're observing the exact opposite. When I was over there,

867
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:51,159
I think the Shinto abe was, you know, doing slowly

868
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,039
at first, and then more and more and more, pushing towards,

869
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,559
you know, re militarization, pushing towards overturning the part of

870
00:45:58,599 --> 00:46:01,000
the constitution that prevents them, you know, from having a

871
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:05,440
military creatively reinterpreting the constitution. Why would they go through

872
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:08,679
all this effort if you know America is going to

873
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,159
be there to save them. Well, some of it is hedging, right,

874
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:13,719
They're like, well, we're not one hundred percent sure if

875
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,760
America is going to be there now. It's worth noting

876
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,119
none of these militaries are at like ten percent GDP

877
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,000
growth rate at this time, so I would argue most

878
00:46:21,039 --> 00:46:22,760
of them still think America is going to be there.

879
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,000
But you don't go all in on a single thing.

880
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,960
So perception wise. Oh and then of course you look

881
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,880
at look at look at how America is perceived in

882
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,880
the world. We're perceived like shit, relatively speaking. So even

883
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,559
on a you know, a ground level, America's you know,

884
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:40,360
influence and strength and whatever you want to call it,

885
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:43,679
is being perceived is way less than it's ever been,

886
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,719
maybe even even though we have a shipload of military

887
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,519
victories under our belt. So from the perception, you know,

888
00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:52,679
the perception point of view, yeah, we're losing ground big time,

889
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,239
right and then okay, not to get into that, but

890
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:58,000
very lightly touching on it, there are other countries in

891
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:01,360
the world that are gaining ground. And at least from

892
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,280
my perspective, I view this whole thing as a zero

893
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,679
sum game. If country A gains ground, it means country

894
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,440
B has to lose ground. And we're seeing a couple

895
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,000
of countries in the world really gaining some ground, at

896
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:17,440
least perception wise. Once again, well, and a harder question.

897
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,840
Oh sorry, gun no, no, I'm glad you brought up

898
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,519
that point zero sum game. It was on the tip

899
00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:23,000
of my tongue, but sorry, back to you. What you

900
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:26,719
to finish that thought? Yeah, then the much harder question

901
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,360
because it actually you know, means putting your foot down.

902
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,920
Is America actually losing physical not physical but like is

903
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,079
it losing ground as its ability to be the world hedgemon.

904
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,000
Now that's a really tough tough question to answer. On

905
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:44,079
one hand, No, we're we're still turbo powerful, right, like

906
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,840
we could wipe the floor with any nation in the world.

907
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:49,159
In fact, you know, the current war that's going on

908
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,639
illustrates that, right. Like everyone thought Russia was something that

909
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,840
could take on all of Europe, turns out probably not right.

910
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,800
But the flip side is, we know America is still

911
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,760
very capable in you know, direct warfare. They're like a

912
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,360
lot of people that don't study the the Iraq War

913
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,360
from a military history standpoint, don't really understand this. But

914
00:48:11,519 --> 00:48:14,599
it was both of them, the Gulf and the Iraqi

915
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:19,760
Freedom were just landslide victories by proportions that don't can't

916
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,599
just be explained by we got bigger, better planes, right.

917
00:48:24,199 --> 00:48:27,400
It wasn't just that, right, And these wars have completely

918
00:48:27,519 --> 00:48:31,079
overturned how modern countries fight wars. The answer in the

919
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:34,920
past was always mass was the quality, right, you need mass,

920
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,840
and these wars completely flip that on its head. And

921
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,039
it's like it's not about mass anymore. And it turns

922
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:42,559
out America is functionally the only country in the world

923
00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:45,599
that has that ability to fight this new modern style

924
00:48:45,679 --> 00:48:49,239
of war under its belt. Now, you know, there's tons

925
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,440
of argumentations of Iraq was shit, blh blah blah blah blah,

926
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,239
but I think we've seen, like you know, even winning

927
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,880
against even winning in an overmatch scenario is much harder

928
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,039
than you'd imagine. So from that perspective, no, America is

929
00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:05,400
doing doing swell. We're doing we're doing quite great. But

930
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,119
then you look at the zero some game perspective, zero

931
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,840
some game perspective, and it does seem like we're weaker.

932
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,840
Right there are other countries that are getting stronger, our

933
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,679
economies not doing as hot as it, you know, used

934
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,599
to We're not. We're still winning, but we're not winning

935
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:24,320
as fast as we used to be winning. And that

936
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,719
gap seems to be closing. So I don't think anyone's

937
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,760
going to be like America is not a hedgemon anymore,

938
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,559
but it's starting to seem likely that we probably won't

939
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:34,719
make it. Definitely not to the end of the century,

940
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,320
but what about you know, to the halfway century. Point

941
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:40,719
hard to say, but it's it's not looking not looking great, right,

942
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,400
There's no real answer here, right, Like I would be

943
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,400
making a lot of money as a political scientif as

944
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,360
that I could come up with a really good answer here, right,

945
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:48,480
But no one really knows.

946
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 7: Well, there's an idea in economics, right that the amount

947
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,800
doesn't matter. It's all about your trends, you know. That

948
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,360
really is that it's the direction the lines are going

949
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,039
that that matters more than any one data point. And

950
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:00,440
I think that you know, you're view of it as

951
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,360
a zero sum game is astute. And again, I just

952
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,679
want to reiterate this for the umptyque time that I'm

953
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,079
not saying that out of some kind of like deep

954
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:12,280
seated hatred of America. You know, I'm not like sitting

955
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,679
here saying like, oh, I can't wait till there are

956
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,639
tanks rolling down, you know, at Washington Avenue or something.

957
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,599
But I think it's important to temper this all with

958
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:26,480
the realization that America is a country and there's no

959
00:50:26,639 --> 00:50:30,800
one country that wins forever, right eventually, you know, and

960
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:34,920
who knows it maybe fifty years, it maybe three hundred years. Yeah,

961
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,559
you're no longer on top and I think, given kind

962
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:41,920
of current trends, that seems to be in the cards

963
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,360
at some point in the future. And I think that

964
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:46,960
one of the things that's important about this is that

965
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,079
to a certain degree, perception becomes reality. Right. You know,

966
00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:55,199
there's this dumb idea from forty k Right, there's this

967
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,880
race of aliens, and you know that their will put

968
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,360
together is so strong that if they believe something, it

969
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,719
becomes true. Right, if they believe that painting something red

970
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,519
makes it go faster, if you get enough of them together,

971
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:10,199
it actually works, right. And that's a stupid example.

972
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,679
Speaker 2: But again, do they put like decals on their cars?

973
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 7: It's literally that. And so what you see again is

974
00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:23,079
you know the classic example, right of the prison guard

975
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,960
with a gun and there's thirty prisoners and he's got

976
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:32,159
ten shots in his gun, and so if they rush him, right,

977
00:51:32,559 --> 00:51:34,599
at least some of those guys are going to get whacked,

978
00:51:35,519 --> 00:51:39,360
but he can't get everyone. And obviously, you know, that's

979
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,679
not exactly how international relations goes. It's not like, you know,

980
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,239
someone says, I don't want to use the dollar anymore,

981
00:51:45,639 --> 00:51:48,599
and we just nuke them, you know, at least I

982
00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:51,760
don't think that's how it works, but nonetheless there is

983
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,400
this kind of as you set up incentives right to

984
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:58,400
leave the US system, people react to that. And I

985
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,199
think that's what you've you've seen with the kind of

986
00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:04,000
and obviously bricks has not been quite what it is

987
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:07,679
cracked up to be. But nonetheless, the idea that bricks

988
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,559
is being floated and seriously considered tells us I think

989
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:14,880
how world leaders are feeling.

990
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: If you see what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, it was.

991
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:22,079
It's almost at least how I view bricks. It's it's

992
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:24,079
more of just like a hey, this is a thing

993
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,039
right where we're pushing back on the soft out power front.

994
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,639
It's like, what what's up right America? Like, please let

995
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,679
us have more at the at the dinner table, you know,

996
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,119
not in that tone, but you know, countries do this

997
00:52:36,199 --> 00:52:38,559
all the time. They possure, they possure back and forth.

998
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,199
I don't think, at least personally, not yet, I don't

999
00:52:41,199 --> 00:52:44,320
really think bricks is a serious thing per se.

1000
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,159
Speaker 7: So this was a this is a really interesting discussion.

1001
00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:52,639
Thank you for sort of outlining you know, your sister's

1002
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:55,280
thought here. But I want to bring this back to

1003
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:58,159
kind of your bread and butter, right, which is preparedness.

1004
00:52:58,199 --> 00:53:01,199
The two a stuff. How do you view you know,

1005
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,559
what you've just said, How does that affect your your

1006
00:53:04,639 --> 00:53:07,960
kind of preparation for disaster, your beliefs about you know

1007
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,320
that sort of thing. Are they related?

1008
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, to a degree. Maybe I'm gonna go slightly slightly

1009
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,760
off tangent here since I'm reading some of the comments,

1010
00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:19,800
but I think it's an important It's like reading the news,

1011
00:53:20,599 --> 00:53:23,320
but like a more expanded version of that. Like me

1012
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:27,320
viewing geopolitics is distinctly in a lot of ways detached

1013
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,719
from my day to day life, right like you know, uh,

1014
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,320
I'm not. I might be before America, you know, being

1015
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,000
a world hedgemon, I might not be for America being

1016
00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:41,639
a global hedgemon. But I think it's fundamentally important to understand,

1017
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:45,360
you know, what that means and implications of certain things

1018
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,679
because you can kind of understand why certain things are

1019
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,639
happening in the world. And a big reason why I

1020
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,000
made that video on a channel that has nothing to

1021
00:53:54,079 --> 00:53:57,480
do with geopolitics is I think it's important to understand

1022
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,920
vectors for change our life, right in our life, to

1023
00:54:02,039 --> 00:54:04,159
big change, right, not just little ady bit change, but

1024
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,119
big change. This has the potential to be one of

1025
00:54:07,199 --> 00:54:10,519
the the American retrenchment. Whether you like it or not,

1026
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,559
completely irrelevant, does not matter. It will change your way

1027
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:18,039
of life massively. So it's important to understand what the vector,

1028
00:54:18,119 --> 00:54:20,639
you know, why it exists the way it does nowadays,

1029
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,559
and what some vectors might be for that to occur.

1030
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:27,119
And if you can recognize those themes, well, you are

1031
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,400
in a lot of in a much better position than

1032
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:34,280
ninety nine percent of Americans to recognize situations well before

1033
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,480
they happen. Right. You know, some people might see Japan

1034
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:41,840
completely removing their their you know, the limitations on the

1035
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,440
constitution and really gearing up, or we might see some

1036
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:48,760
American bases being removed from certain parts of the world.

1037
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,400
Most people are going to be like, yeah, about about time,

1038
00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:54,360
And maybe it is about time, But if you're informed

1039
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,960
on the subject, that's a huge red flag for oh

1040
00:54:57,119 --> 00:55:01,280
my gosh, the people in power are consciously thinking about retrenchment,

1041
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,760
and at some point that may click, that may just

1042
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,840
completely click over world perception wise, and in a very

1043
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,760
short timeframe, we can see a vastly different change to

1044
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,880
our day to day life. And I think it's important

1045
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,599
to a minimum be mentally prepared for that, right, that's

1046
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:19,039
an important thing to do in life. Even if you

1047
00:55:19,039 --> 00:55:22,079
don't do any physical prepared being mentally prepared for things

1048
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,760
helps you not be blindsided into default into normalcy bias.

1049
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,880
So that's kind of how I view, at least geopolitics.

1050
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,800
It's also fun to talk about, right, you know, no,

1051
00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:32,920
fifty percent of this stuff is going to be wrong, but.

1052
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,039
Speaker 7: You know, oh yeah, because it's it goes back to

1053
00:55:35,079 --> 00:55:37,760
that point about the best mental model is sixty percent, right,

1054
00:55:38,159 --> 00:55:40,039
you know, it's like you'd hope to be at least

1055
00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:42,119
close to the top of that. Well, I think about

1056
00:55:42,119 --> 00:55:45,320
it with the COVID stuff because regardless of your opinions

1057
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:50,159
on COVID particularly, it did really change things. And you know,

1058
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,480
it's kind of a news junkie. I was watching, you know,

1059
00:55:53,559 --> 00:55:55,719
and like I think it would have been like the

1060
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,559
year before it hit, like twenty nineteen, the end of

1061
00:55:58,599 --> 00:56:01,679
that year, December, right, Yeah, watching the videos that I

1062
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,400
think all of us saw out of China.

1063
00:56:04,039 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 2: You know, it's not everyone interestingly, but yeah, like some

1064
00:56:07,079 --> 00:56:11,000
people didn't, so they have very very different perspectives on

1065
00:56:11,119 --> 00:56:13,559
COVID than I think. From what I'm guessing here, you

1066
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,280
or I had the perspective.

1067
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,519
Speaker 7: Of COVID right, well, definitely, and so at least for

1068
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:20,519
those first couple months, like before anyone else was noticing,

1069
00:56:21,079 --> 00:56:22,840
it was kind of this soft like wait a minute,

1070
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,360
like is this it? You know, there's this thing happening

1071
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,000
in China that no one's talking about. And that means

1072
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:30,039
that when it finally came around, you know, when everyone

1073
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:32,320
else is losing their mind, you're like, Okay, well, I

1074
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,239
mean it's probably bad, but at least I'm emotionally prepared

1075
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:37,679
for the end of the world, which.

1076
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 2: Is certainly something.

1077
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:39,079
Speaker 5: Now.

1078
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a really interesting thing you brought up.

1079
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,880
It's not geopolitics, but for those that were actively watching

1080
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,800
world events, you know, COVID started for us in about

1081
00:56:48,119 --> 00:56:51,639
November December roughly speaking of that timeframe, and you're watching

1082
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:54,119
the cases out of China and it looks and you know,

1083
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:56,599
everyone's gonna be like, yeah, COVID's a cough whatever, shut up.

1084
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,880
Back then, we didn't have good information.

1085
00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:01,079
Speaker 7: We knew nothing, We knew nothing.

1086
00:57:01,119 --> 00:57:03,079
Speaker 2: All we knew was that China was getting bent over

1087
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,000
raw because they were in ill equipped to handle this stuff,

1088
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,679
and their solution was welding people into buildings. So you

1089
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,000
know when when people are being welded into buildings like

1090
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:13,480
that's a what like, you know, everyone.

1091
00:57:13,199 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 7: You look at that and you're like, well, logically, that

1092
00:57:15,199 --> 00:57:16,360
has to be really bad.

1093
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:16,639
Speaker 2: You know.

1094
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,119
Speaker 7: I wouldn't do that unless it was literally like the

1095
00:57:19,239 --> 00:57:20,320
Rainbow six virus.

1096
00:57:21,039 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looked terrifying. And then I'm like, oh god.

1097
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,039
And then you know, within circles, we're talking about like,

1098
00:57:26,079 --> 00:57:28,800
how do we deal with this thing? It's respiratory and nature.

1099
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:31,000
I'm talking to some doctors like this is how you

1100
00:57:31,079 --> 00:57:33,159
can handle with over the shelf stuff, this is how

1101
00:57:33,199 --> 00:57:35,519
you build a clean room. Like I bought some of

1102
00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:38,440
these things, and then oh god, January came around and

1103
00:57:38,639 --> 00:57:40,679
that little COVID tracker that was on like I think

1104
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,280
John Hopkins or whatever with rgis one dot in America,

1105
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,480
two dots in America, and it's like it's over right,

1106
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:51,239
it's here now. Turned out, Yeah, okay, didn't end up

1107
00:57:51,239 --> 00:57:53,880
being that big of a deal, but you know, relatively speaking,

1108
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,840
it's still one of the biggest events in our lifetime.

1109
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,119
But you know, not to thegree most people thought. And

1110
00:57:59,239 --> 00:58:01,960
I think that's an inch analog, right, I could have

1111
00:58:02,119 --> 00:58:05,039
very you know, you know, add an extra zero to

1112
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:07,320
the mortality rate of this thing, and things could have

1113
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,760
been vastly different and no one really knew at the time.

1114
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,440
And I kind of view it the same way with

1115
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,000
you know, looking at geopolitics, it's good to understand this stuff.

1116
00:58:16,239 --> 00:58:18,639
Good chance it's going to be like COVID where it's like, ah, okay,

1117
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,519
psych I overreacted, But it's good to keep your ear

1118
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:24,039
to the ground and.

1119
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 7: Definitely brought we're running out of time. If people want

1120
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,280
to find more of your work, what's a good way

1121
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:29,880
for them to do that.

1122
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 2: I mean, my name's brass facts. You put it into

1123
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,159
into YouTube and then the dog with the night vision

1124
00:58:37,199 --> 00:58:39,960
goggle shows up and you can click on it. Admittedly,

1125
00:58:40,039 --> 00:58:42,360
though most of it is not going to be like

1126
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,719
this conversation. In fact, the vast majority of it it's

1127
00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:48,000
not going to be like this conversation. I focus mostly

1128
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:53,119
on like gun reviews, gear reviews, and then philosophy of use,

1129
00:58:53,159 --> 00:58:55,239
of how to use something that in a prepared context

1130
00:58:55,639 --> 00:59:00,599
to a extreme autistic degree. But yeah, if you want

1131
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:01,639
to check that stuff.

1132
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:05,119
Speaker 7: Out, well, definitely, and I highly recommend your stuff. I

1133
00:59:05,199 --> 00:59:07,800
really have to blame you for an astonishing number of

1134
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,400
poor financial decisions. You made me buy an acog and

1135
00:59:11,519 --> 00:59:12,800
I will never recover from it.

1136
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 2: But I can't wait till you buy an elcam.

1137
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:20,599
Speaker 7: Don't talk to me about it anyway. If you guys

1138
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:24,000
want to find my stuff, this podcast available on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1139
00:59:24,119 --> 00:59:26,639
anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can also check out

1140
00:59:26,679 --> 00:59:30,239
my substack and my sponsor Axios Remote Fitness of Coaching

1141
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,400
if you're interested in preparing yourself for unfamiliar times. Jd

1142
00:59:34,559 --> 00:59:38,360
the owner, personal friend of mine, absolute physical specimen, genuinely

1143
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,039
frightening human being. He's pretty good at it. He can

1144
00:59:41,199 --> 00:59:44,280
help you get that set up. And again, Brox, thank

1145
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,920
you so much for your time. Thanks for having me

1146
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,480
and everyone at home. Remember keep your head up, but

1147
00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:53,639
I can't last forever. Good night, all right, focus trip,

1148
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,440
Welcome to the j burd and show how you doing.

1149
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,719
Speaker 2: Man, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me own sir.

1150
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm glad to have you on. This is my

1151
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:05,119
roughly quarterly adventure into gun tube. So obviously you know

1152
01:00:05,239 --> 01:00:07,119
I know what you do. I'm a fan of your work,

1153
01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:09,719
but some of my audience might not be familiar with you. So,

1154
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,239
so who are you and what do you do on

1155
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:11,719
the Internet.

1156
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I appreciate it.

1157
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 4: Man.

1158
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,519
Speaker 6: Focus Trip I run the Focus Trip YouTube channel. I'm

1159
01:00:17,559 --> 01:00:20,760
also a contributor on thegun dot Deals channel. I also

1160
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,800
own Focus Shooting LLC. Most of what I focus on

1161
01:00:24,239 --> 01:00:29,760
is gun content reviews. Recently been doing some semi controversial

1162
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,199
live streams as well. Yeah, basically make content that interests

1163
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,360
me in the gun space, if you will.

1164
01:00:37,599 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 7: Yeah. So, I've followed your work for a while, and

1165
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,880
really what I find valuable in it is that you

1166
01:00:44,039 --> 01:00:48,840
take a very different attitude towards product review than show

1167
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,679
we say a lot of your compatriots. So I'm curious, right,

1168
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,280
could you tell me, you know, how you approach reviewing

1169
01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:00,320
a product and maybe contrast that to what's more popular. Yeah.

1170
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 6: So, if you watch my channel like five years ago,

1171
01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:07,079
maybe even six or seven years ago, at this point,

1172
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,679
the old content's really bad, really crappy content. Didn't exactly

1173
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,719
know what I was doing. I was just having fun

1174
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:17,000
with guns and basically posting it online, which is fine

1175
01:01:17,239 --> 01:01:20,280
for you know, like very low tier content. But as

1176
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,719
I got better, as I kind of knew what I

1177
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,119
liked more and liked less and developed higher standards for

1178
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,800
actually reviewing product, and you know understanding what I liked

1179
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:33,800
about a product, didn't like about a product, and what

1180
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:37,239
I thought was a waste of money. My emphasis changed

1181
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:42,400
from essentially shooting something and talking about it to very

1182
01:01:42,599 --> 01:01:45,519
critically looking at a product, what it does well, what

1183
01:01:45,639 --> 01:01:49,199
it does poorly, and does this actually provide benefit to

1184
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:54,320
the end user. Now, a lot of my compatriots in

1185
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,400
the tow a space online or at least the gun

1186
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,480
review space let's see it say they focus mostly on

1187
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,440
selling product. They emphasize the pros of a product, what

1188
01:02:06,599 --> 01:02:12,360
it does well. Very rarely is there an analytical look

1189
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:16,400
at what something does, especially compared to other products that

1190
01:02:16,519 --> 01:02:18,920
may or may not be better. And we'll get into

1191
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,840
this later. I'm sure about the consumerism side on it,

1192
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:26,519
and how it's all designed to push more and more product.

1193
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:31,039
Whereas most these people rely on companies to get more

1194
01:02:31,119 --> 01:02:33,280
product to keep the reviews coming, a lot of them

1195
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:37,840
get early access to product. I try to not stand

1196
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,119
with companies, but stand in between companies and the end user,

1197
01:02:42,119 --> 01:02:44,960
because I don't believe that these companies, just for the

1198
01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:48,559
mere fact that they exist and produce a product, deserve

1199
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:52,960
access to my viewer's wallets. Right where a lot of

1200
01:02:53,239 --> 01:02:56,679
my fellow gun tobers appear to be happy to sell

1201
01:02:56,679 --> 01:02:58,079
out their audience for a couple bucks.

1202
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,039
Speaker 7: It's an interesting, interesting thing you bring up there because

1203
01:03:04,199 --> 01:03:06,239
and I feel like this is something that you gain

1204
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,039
with enough experience, Right, You've been around the block a

1205
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:11,320
few times, and you start to notice this kind of

1206
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,400
like cyclical pattern, right, which is new product comes out

1207
01:03:16,519 --> 01:03:20,280
and even actually, in many cases before it's released to

1208
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,719
the public, there's this kind of like interior ring of

1209
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,639
media figures who get access to it right before anyone else.

1210
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,239
They drop a review the day that it becomes available

1211
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,039
to the public. They all say it's amazing and it

1212
01:03:34,159 --> 01:03:36,599
is the hot thing, right, you need to get it,

1213
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,960
and if you don't, you're gay and lame and everyone's

1214
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,159
going to make fun of you. And then two months

1215
01:03:42,239 --> 01:03:44,679
pass and everyone's forgotten about that old thing, and the

1216
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,960
cycle continues. And so you see that happen enough times

1217
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,360
and you start to look around and you're like, wait

1218
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,960
a minute, what's going on here? And yeah, so maybe

1219
01:03:55,159 --> 01:03:59,800
could you speak to the way that companies tend to

1220
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,320
that tend to interact with kind of firearms influencers.

1221
01:04:03,599 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 6: Oh, one hundred percent. So the cyclical nature of This

1222
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:12,639
goes way deeper than just new product. Get excited for

1223
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,519
new product. Forget about that product, We're onto the next thing.

1224
01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:20,079
If you look at it, there's waves of different styles

1225
01:04:20,159 --> 01:04:25,360
of products like red dots, lpbos, you know, magnifiers, prisms,

1226
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,840
lever guns, revolvers are hot again for some reason, all

1227
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,440
sorts of different cycles. But you see the same faces

1228
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,639
repeated over and over and over again. Because these actors

1229
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:45,159
are reliable for the companies. They have the appearance of

1230
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,360
being unbiased. Some of the time, they have the appearance

1231
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,760
of being objective, right, But at the end of the day,

1232
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:55,159
the reason why they are still on these companies short

1233
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:59,880
list of influencers is because they're reliable money generators.

1234
01:05:00,119 --> 01:05:00,199
Speaker 2: Right.

1235
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,159
Speaker 6: For example, a few times when I was accepting products

1236
01:05:05,199 --> 01:05:08,719
for review, I would have something negative and then I

1237
01:05:08,719 --> 01:05:10,880
would post a video about it. I would get an

1238
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,239
angry email, and then it would be like, Okay, well, hey,

1239
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,079
we can't send you any more product if you're going

1240
01:05:15,159 --> 01:05:18,599
to act like this, and it's like are you threatening me?

1241
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,320
You know, it's like I guess I don't want product

1242
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:23,960
from you at this point. So a lot of the

1243
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,800
times you see the same faces because they make reliably

1244
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:31,320
high quality videos with generic talking points. They'll say it's

1245
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,920
great and amazing, and then two months later, new product

1246
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:37,480
comes out and then they're saying the exact same things

1247
01:05:37,519 --> 01:05:39,679
about that product, and it's like, well, hey, what about

1248
01:05:39,679 --> 01:05:41,760
that thing you just reviewed? And they're like what, what

1249
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,159
do you mean. It's almost like there's a short term

1250
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,960
memory that a lot of these people have, and you'll

1251
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,480
see it. There's more of an awareness of it at

1252
01:05:49,519 --> 01:05:52,800
this point, since people like me and others have been

1253
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:54,840
calling it out, and I mean people like not in

1254
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:56,599
Fancy if you look back, he's been calling it out

1255
01:05:56,599 --> 01:05:59,320
for a decade now, which is why he's been ostracized

1256
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:03,000
from the larger gun community, if you will. But people

1257
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,679
who get review guns, who are on short lists tend

1258
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,320
to behave in a specific way towards these companies. And

1259
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,679
you'll even hear rhetoric like this on podcasts where people say, hey,

1260
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,719
you know, if you ever have an issue with your product,

1261
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:17,800
you got to take it to the company first and

1262
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,559
give them a chance to fix it before you go

1263
01:06:19,679 --> 01:06:23,119
public with an issue. And my approach is the opposite

1264
01:06:23,159 --> 01:06:25,159
of that. If there's an issue with the product, you

1265
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:28,599
need to inform potential buyers of that, like right away,

1266
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:30,639
because people are going to be buying that in the interim,

1267
01:06:30,719 --> 01:06:34,639
and I don't believe that companies have a lot of

1268
01:06:34,719 --> 01:06:37,519
them anyways, don't have a great financial incentive to actually

1269
01:06:37,599 --> 01:06:40,679
fix issues. It's much cheaper, it's much faster just to

1270
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,280
throw an issue under the bridge and then move on

1271
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:44,440
to your next big thing.

1272
01:06:44,639 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 5: Right.

1273
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,239
Speaker 7: Well, it's especially interesting because you've seen that kind of

1274
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:55,079
like should we say, like shoddy consumer practices go much

1275
01:06:55,239 --> 01:06:58,960
farther up the chain than you would expect, right, Like,

1276
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:00,599
I hate to say it, but you buy a low

1277
01:07:00,719 --> 01:07:03,920
end product, to the bottom of the barrel price, you

1278
01:07:04,039 --> 01:07:06,920
kind of assume that, right, it's not great. But you know,

1279
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,599
I bought a seventy dollars Amazon red Dot for my

1280
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,119
t X twenty two because it's a twenty two and

1281
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:17,119
if it breaks, I kind of know what I'm getting. Right,

1282
01:07:17,159 --> 01:07:20,320
It's a Chinese company that probably doesn't exist a week

1283
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:24,159
after I bunch. But when you see that to companies

1284
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:28,960
that you know, not only charge a premium for their product,

1285
01:07:29,199 --> 01:07:33,119
but also you know, go around to governments and say, hey,

1286
01:07:33,199 --> 01:07:36,480
look at my new, my new you know, whiz bang product.

1287
01:07:36,599 --> 01:07:39,679
It's the best ever. And take that same attitude to it.

1288
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,119
It's a revealing I'll put it that way.

1289
01:07:45,199 --> 01:07:46,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.

1290
01:07:46,199 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 6: I mean, if we want to talk about companies that

1291
01:07:50,239 --> 01:07:54,440
government contracts with without somehow putting out a decent product,

1292
01:07:54,519 --> 01:07:56,159
I mean, like sig I.

1293
01:07:56,199 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 7: Was about to say, you could figure who I was

1294
01:07:57,840 --> 01:07:58,559
talking about.

1295
01:07:59,039 --> 01:08:00,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's just ridiculous.

1296
01:08:00,679 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 6: It's like, okay, so you got you know, hundreds of

1297
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:05,360
millions or I don't even know if the contracts are

1298
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,000
up to a billion yet, but just so much money

1299
01:08:08,079 --> 01:08:11,840
for these different products. Surely it's not killing people in

1300
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,599
the you know, by accident, you know, not intentionally killing people.

1301
01:08:15,679 --> 01:08:19,279
It's injuring their own users, right, I think actually talking

1302
01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:22,560
about Sake, I think yesterday or today they lost a

1303
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,800
lawsuit against somebody for eleven million dollars for it going

1304
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,880
off in somebody's holster again, So I mean there's litigation

1305
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,640
to back this stuff up that these companies. And what's

1306
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,560
funny is too, like ten plus years ago when the

1307
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,960
three twenty was coming out, you had the same wave

1308
01:08:39,079 --> 01:08:42,960
of positive reviews, everybody loving it, everybody that's saying it

1309
01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:45,000
was the best thing ever. And then you know, your

1310
01:08:45,159 --> 01:08:47,560
reports trickle out here and there, and then ten years

1311
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,000
later everybody's like, actually, it was a terrible gun all along,

1312
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:51,800
bad design from the start.

1313
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,039
Speaker 7: So I'll put in a little bit of backstory on

1314
01:08:55,199 --> 01:08:58,159
this because you know, while you and I are are

1315
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,399
you know, incorrigible gun off, my audience is not, at

1316
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:07,039
least primarily basically, what happened is six Hour, not the

1317
01:09:07,119 --> 01:09:11,359
German one, an American company with a similar name, release

1318
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:13,640
this this new gun, right, it's gonna be the best

1319
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,319
thing ever. It had some admittedly innovative features that you know,

1320
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:22,159
we won't need to get into, but very very quickly

1321
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,119
upon coming out to the market, it revealed a charming

1322
01:09:25,239 --> 01:09:28,600
new quirk where it would just go off in a holster,

1323
01:09:29,079 --> 01:09:31,920
which is a focused trip. You could back be up

1324
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:37,199
on this suboptimal for a gut and okay, fair enough,

1325
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:39,840
a new product comes to market that's you know, and

1326
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,119
it's bad. That happens quite often. But what was really

1327
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:47,560
suspicious is despite it being bad, and not just bad

1328
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,560
as in sometimes it would go off. But even if

1329
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,279
you have a perfectly working version of this gun, it's

1330
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:56,520
not very good. Like it's fine, but it's certainly not

1331
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:02,159
worth the downside. All of a sudden magically, different nations,

1332
01:10:02,279 --> 01:10:05,800
different you know, police organizations all started adopting it, uh,

1333
01:10:06,359 --> 01:10:09,079
including right the US military, And you know, there are

1334
01:10:09,079 --> 01:10:12,199
people who go deep into the specifics of this, uh,

1335
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:17,560
but it seems extremely likely, uh that SIG's Hour basically

1336
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,920
paid off people so that they would be selected because

1337
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:23,800
they did not meet any of the criteria by which

1338
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,640
the you know, the relevant guns were selected. And so obviously,

1339
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,920
you know, scummy companies are scummy companies. But my point is, right,

1340
01:10:30,319 --> 01:10:33,479
these products are not or these problems right with consumer

1341
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,920
practices are not just limited to the kind of like

1342
01:10:37,319 --> 01:10:40,159
bottom of the barrel, you know, like fly by Night companies.

1343
01:10:40,239 --> 01:10:41,039
It's kind of endemic.

1344
01:10:42,239 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 6: Somehow, the more government contracts you have, the less you

1345
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:52,159
care about quality control. Now, talking about SIG and their

1346
01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:56,479
government contracts, you know, there's Aukham's razor, right, everybody knows

1347
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,439
what that is. But I have another concept called Okham's

1348
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,359
retard and that is what the government operates on when

1349
01:11:02,399 --> 01:11:05,840
picking out handguns or rifles or anything. Whatever the most

1350
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,760
retarded decision could be, that's the one that they're going

1351
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,279
to make. So going with the three twenty was absolutely

1352
01:11:11,359 --> 01:11:15,199
a combination of bribery, and back door shananigans, and you

1353
01:11:15,359 --> 01:11:18,039
ended up with a subpar handgun that people have been

1354
01:11:18,279 --> 01:11:22,319
trying to get away from now. So yeah, that whole

1355
01:11:22,359 --> 01:11:24,880
situation is just an absolute mess.

1356
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 7: So yeah, I also want to return to the reviewer

1357
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,319
side of it, right, because look, I was a little

1358
01:11:34,399 --> 01:11:36,560
bit I was a little bit young for gamer Gate

1359
01:11:37,239 --> 01:11:40,039
wasn't really on the internet then, but I sort of

1360
01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:43,399
became aware of it in college. I've told this story.

1361
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,199
My audience has heard it, you know, so many times

1362
01:11:45,199 --> 01:11:49,199
they're rolling their eyes. But I went to college and

1363
01:11:49,359 --> 01:11:52,279
took a class called game theory, which I naively assumed

1364
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,840
was was like economic game theory, right, Prisoner's dilemma and

1365
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,520
all that. It turns out that it was the critical

1366
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,880
theory of video games, which means I just got an

1367
01:12:02,039 --> 01:12:05,079
entire crash course from a three hundred pounds feminist about

1368
01:12:05,079 --> 01:12:07,600
gamer Gate and got to pay for it. And so

1369
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:09,520
point is right. The reason I bring that up is

1370
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,000
to say that that was an industry where you saw

1371
01:12:12,079 --> 01:12:15,479
a similar problem, right, where there were journalists who were

1372
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:20,279
being paid to deliver unbiased information who had a financial

1373
01:12:21,079 --> 01:12:26,199
should we say, a financial stake right in companies or products.

1374
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:28,840
And so I'm curious. Right, you mentioned earlier that people

1375
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:30,880
are more aware of it. I mean, do you think

1376
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,479
that there is sort of a gamer gate esque situation

1377
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:34,760
in the firearms community.

1378
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:41,359
Speaker 6: It will never be to the same level because game

1379
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,520
journalists are the lowest of the low, right, So in

1380
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,760
the tiers of journalists, right, they're all peons, but game

1381
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,079
journalists are like shoot on site, right, the worst of

1382
01:12:51,159 --> 01:12:53,159
the worst. If you're a game journalist, I'm sorry that

1383
01:12:53,239 --> 01:12:56,159
you exist. For the most part, in the firearms community,

1384
01:12:56,359 --> 01:13:01,159
you actually do have some standards. So for instance, recently,

1385
01:13:01,279 --> 01:13:05,279
TFBTV was doing a video on the new magpole slash

1386
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:10,279
zev folding pistol thing in the jig. Right, the entire

1387
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:14,600
comment section is calling them out for how poor of

1388
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:17,680
a fluff piece video, Like it's obvious, it's just the

1389
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:22,439
most biased, ridiculous puff piece ever imagined. Like it was

1390
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,319
painful to watch. And so this sort of thing is

1391
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,600
is very noticed in the gun community. I think partially

1392
01:13:29,199 --> 01:13:36,560
because it's a more storied industry. It has more prestige,

1393
01:13:37,199 --> 01:13:39,199
if you will, It has a lot of history there,

1394
01:13:40,359 --> 01:13:42,079
a lot of the writers there, a lot of the

1395
01:13:42,159 --> 01:13:45,159
companies do hold themselves to slightly higher standards. So I

1396
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:47,039
don't think you're ever going to get a Gamergate type

1397
01:13:47,079 --> 01:13:50,279
situation where you know, you suddenly find out that people

1398
01:13:50,319 --> 01:13:54,039
are getting paid to do certain things and whatnot. That's

1399
01:13:54,159 --> 01:13:56,159
kind of an open secret. But even a company like

1400
01:13:56,239 --> 01:14:00,319
TFBTV that doesn't accept money, that is very clear in

1401
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,319
their literature and behind the scenes and whatnot, they do

1402
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:09,359
accept early access and flights and soy monetary incentive isn't

1403
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,800
just money. There's a lot more to it. It's access,

1404
01:14:13,079 --> 01:14:15,319
it's all this other stuff that you lose when you

1405
01:14:15,399 --> 01:14:16,319
go against the grain.

1406
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's an interesting thing to talk about, right

1407
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:24,840
that oftentimes the quid, the quid pro quo isn't even

1408
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,520
like a you know, a bag of cash with a

1409
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:31,159
dollar sign written on it. You know, it is exactly

1410
01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:34,000
what you said. It's the combination of you know, because

1411
01:14:34,039 --> 01:14:36,760
of the way the internet works, right you, you were

1412
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,199
incentivized to be the first out with something, and if

1413
01:14:40,239 --> 01:14:42,399
you lose out and all of a sudden you're trailing

1414
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:45,760
two weeks behind, you've lost the algorithm. And so it

1415
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:48,239
seems like from the outside looking in, companies can kind

1416
01:14:48,279 --> 01:14:49,600
of use that and hold.

1417
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:50,159
Speaker 2: That over your head.

1418
01:14:52,119 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 6: So a lot of guys that are new to the

1419
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:58,359
firearms industry, specifically content creation. I get these messages all

1420
01:14:58,399 --> 01:15:01,039
the time of how do I get access, how do

1421
01:15:01,159 --> 01:15:01,560
I start?

1422
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:02,239
Speaker 2: How do I do this?

1423
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 6: And it really sucks to tell them that you kind

1424
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,680
of don't want it. Because nowadays, if you watch a

1425
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,840
day one gun review, you're gonna notice the like to

1426
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:16,840
dislike ratio is way worse. The comment section is full

1427
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:19,960
of like shill, shill, shill, shill, shill, right, and then

1428
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,239
people like hey, I'll wait for the you know, the

1429
01:15:22,319 --> 01:15:24,880
brass facts review or I'll wait for this review because

1430
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,159
they know that, yeah, it's going to be two weeks late,

1431
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:29,279
a month late, but they know that they're going to

1432
01:15:29,319 --> 01:15:33,800
get actual, like good information, right versus these corporate puff pieces.

1433
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,720
Which is why I think, or all of the gun

1434
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:40,119
industry's many faults, it is in a much better space

1435
01:15:40,199 --> 01:15:43,000
than a lot of these other industries. And it's because

1436
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:47,520
for whatever reason, again, the gun people, myself included, are

1437
01:15:48,119 --> 01:15:51,279
more apt to call these people out right. Something that

1438
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,960
I used to be a part of is more car

1439
01:15:54,199 --> 01:15:58,399
centric stuff and computer centric stuff as well. The computer

1440
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:02,479
space is actually also really good about calling out companies

1441
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:07,640
for different poor behavior. For instance, MSI was essentially bribing

1442
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,000
people or holding things above people's heads for negative reviews.

1443
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:15,359
So that is something that other industries also do well,

1444
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,800
and the gun industry is not the worst at but

1445
01:16:19,239 --> 01:16:22,520
it is something that definitely still is there and that

1446
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,439
people need to be aware of. But by and large,

1447
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,800
if you're kind of autistic about it like we are,

1448
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:28,800
like you're gonna notice it. You're gonna know who the

1449
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,199
players are, who's going to put out the day one reviews,

1450
01:16:31,239 --> 01:16:34,520
who's gonna get early access and fight to keep that access,

1451
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,119
because I'll be honest, a lot of these guys are

1452
01:16:37,159 --> 01:16:39,399
only relevant because they have a day one review that

1453
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:41,960
some normy is going to click on. Right, So even

1454
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,159
if nobody watches the rest of their content, if they

1455
01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:46,199
get a video out early enough, you know, they'll get

1456
01:16:46,199 --> 01:16:48,399
a couple hundred thousand views off of that, and that's

1457
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:50,960
what they sustain for the you know, four or five

1458
01:16:51,119 --> 01:16:52,600
major product launches in a year.

1459
01:16:54,119 --> 01:16:57,039
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's an interesting point. One of the things that

1460
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:04,199
I have noticed, uh, and this is especially apparent since COVID,

1461
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:09,840
is the impact that social media has had on gun culture,

1462
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:14,039
right because as someone who grew up in this and

1463
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,119
don't get me wrong, they're pros and cons to this.

1464
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,880
It's gotten way way bigger, right, and the emergence of

1465
01:17:20,159 --> 01:17:21,479
I don't know what you would call it, but like

1466
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:25,840
hype culture, drop culture, which I don't understand. I deleted

1467
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,239
my Instagram in twenty twenty, so I don't get it,

1468
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:32,720
and I feel like an old man. But that's a

1469
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:36,239
very new, I mean relatively speaking, development, because when I

1470
01:17:36,319 --> 01:17:39,800
grew up, right, gun culture was you know, some crazy

1471
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:42,439
baby boomer at a gun show, sitting out in the

1472
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:46,079
parking lot, you know, passing out. You know, what's something

1473
01:17:46,119 --> 01:17:49,199
that is either definitely or at least possibly going to

1474
01:17:49,239 --> 01:17:52,039
get you on a government watch list, or ranting about Waco.

1475
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,279
And it was insane. It was fun, right, but it

1476
01:17:55,359 --> 01:17:58,159
was a very niche thing. And so I'm curious, right,

1477
01:17:58,239 --> 01:18:00,640
what have you have you seen in your time in

1478
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,239
this kind of part of culture. How was social media

1479
01:18:04,319 --> 01:18:04,840
affecting it?

1480
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:05,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1481
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:10,039
Speaker 6: No, social media absolutely is responsible for a lot of

1482
01:18:10,159 --> 01:18:13,439
the good and bad growth in the gun industry. So

1483
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,159
my family was never super into guns. My dad was

1484
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:19,359
in the military. I have a couple brothers in the military,

1485
01:18:19,399 --> 01:18:22,560
but we never like owned a lot of guns or

1486
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,760
went shooting all the time. I really only ever went

1487
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,760
a couple times before I was eighteen, with like my

1488
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:31,239
brother or something like that. But popular media, I think

1489
01:18:31,399 --> 01:18:35,039
Modern Warfare one and two, and of course subsequent games

1490
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:37,640
as well were huge for that sort of things because

1491
01:18:38,239 --> 01:18:40,520
ever since you know, two thousand and nine and whenever

1492
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,119
Modern Warfare two came out, the ACR has been my

1493
01:18:43,199 --> 01:18:45,960
favorite rifle. Then you know, fifteen years later, hey, I've

1494
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:46,880
owned four of them.

1495
01:18:47,039 --> 01:18:48,079
Speaker 2: Not a great gun, but I've.

1496
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,760
Speaker 7: Owned Okay, you can't make fun of me for having

1497
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,880
an LCN if you have had four acrs. We have

1498
01:18:54,039 --> 01:18:56,600
both made horrible emotional decisions.

1499
01:18:57,079 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 6: I acknowledge that the ACR is bad, though I'm still

1500
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:02,279
loved it.

1501
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,560
Speaker 7: It's deep in the closet. I have not admitted at it.

1502
01:19:06,079 --> 01:19:06,640
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the thing.

1503
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,159
Speaker 6: I like, you can I there is that culture right about.

1504
01:19:10,319 --> 01:19:12,279
You see something in a video game and then you

1505
01:19:12,359 --> 01:19:15,039
click on a Grantham video that shows off like I

1506
01:19:15,079 --> 01:19:16,560
think he just did a video a couple weeks ago

1507
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:19,319
on the whatever the new? Is it like black Ops

1508
01:19:19,359 --> 01:19:21,319
six or something? That's a crazy thing to say, isn't

1509
01:19:21,319 --> 01:19:24,600
it black Ops six? Anyways, So you see something in

1510
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,479
popular media and then kids now they have access to

1511
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:30,840
all of this information and all of this high quality content,

1512
01:19:32,159 --> 01:19:34,920
at least in terms of looks. So if somebody wants

1513
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,680
to see, hey, you know, I remember PUBG was big

1514
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,000
for this too, because there was like pubg videos of like,

1515
01:19:41,119 --> 01:19:43,359
you know, something bouncing off of a frying pan, and

1516
01:19:43,399 --> 01:19:46,319
then that video would have like fifteen million views or something, right,

1517
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,359
somebody basically recreating something in real life that you would

1518
01:19:49,359 --> 01:19:51,960
see in a video game. So I think social media

1519
01:19:52,039 --> 01:19:55,680
absolutely has brought guns to a younger generation because I

1520
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:59,800
do remember what you're saying about a gun show was

1521
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,720
a essentially the average age might be seventy years old

1522
01:20:03,279 --> 01:20:05,840
on the inside of a gun show, right, And now

1523
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,079
if you walk into your local gun store in a

1524
01:20:08,399 --> 01:20:11,960
you know, at least mildly populated area, maybe that's come

1525
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:13,800
all the way down to like thirty five as the

1526
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:16,319
average age. You know, you still got your boomers, of course,

1527
01:20:16,359 --> 01:20:19,199
but man, I know a lot of eighteen to twenty

1528
01:20:19,239 --> 01:20:21,560
five year olds who are getting into guns, and like

1529
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,720
my audience, I think forty percent is under twenty five

1530
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,279
or twenty five and under. So it is a huge

1531
01:20:28,319 --> 01:20:30,880
demographic for young people, which is fantastic.

1532
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:31,359
Speaker 2: That's great.

1533
01:20:31,359 --> 01:20:33,159
Speaker 6: They're coming into this space. They want to be part

1534
01:20:33,199 --> 01:20:36,960
of it. The downside is that they're young people, right.

1535
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,399
You know, I'm only twenty nine years old, so I don't.

1536
01:20:39,279 --> 01:20:40,199
Speaker 2: Look down on people.

1537
01:20:40,319 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 6: But you know that this type of culture that the

1538
01:20:43,079 --> 01:20:45,680
hype culture. You know, oh gosh, I got this in

1539
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:50,720
Flecktarn Camo, right, or like Noveski and like they're having

1540
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:55,560
like naked models for a gun launcher something like that,

1541
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:58,359
and it's like, okay, that's like marketing from like nineteen

1542
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,239
ninety four, you know, on like a beer calendar.

1543
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:01,560
Speaker 2: Or something like that.

1544
01:21:02,199 --> 01:21:06,079
Speaker 6: But you have this weird amalgamation of hyper young people

1545
01:21:06,199 --> 01:21:09,920
who love the hype beast culture. They like the drops

1546
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,039
a limited run you got to buy bye Bye. Now,

1547
01:21:12,159 --> 01:21:14,760
I have buddies who are in the shoe thing, and

1548
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,560
that's what shoe culture is about. It's all about limited

1549
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,239
run drops, getting that colorway that only comes around like

1550
01:21:21,319 --> 01:21:23,159
once a decade or something like that, and then you

1551
01:21:23,359 --> 01:21:26,760
resell it, right, And so I think it's it's a

1552
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:28,880
good thing, right because you're getting a lot of people

1553
01:21:29,079 --> 01:21:32,039
into the industry. But at the same time, with those

1554
01:21:32,079 --> 01:21:35,439
people coming in, it's also they're not hyper mature, you know,

1555
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:38,680
they're hype beast not hyper mature, and so they are

1556
01:21:39,039 --> 01:21:43,520
very consumery and they're also very low effort. So it's

1557
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,760
not like us necessarily, I don't want to speak for you,

1558
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,720
but like I'm like, hey, the Secondmendment very important, the

1559
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,520
original intention of it, you know, that needs to be protected,

1560
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:53,880
that needs to be propagated. And then a lot of

1561
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:55,920
these new guys are basically like, I don't know, man,

1562
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,439
guns are cool, you know, and that's as far as it.

1563
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:01,760
Speaker 2: Goes for them, right, Yeah, I definitely see that.

1564
01:22:02,119 --> 01:22:06,640
Speaker 7: I mean in the YouTube space as well. Right, it's

1565
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,319
pretty easy to see the kind of different tiers of this,

1566
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,279
right where it's like there's the kind of like very

1567
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:16,239
surface level and look, this stuff is really important, you know,

1568
01:22:16,279 --> 01:22:19,600
it gets people interested in it. That's like I'm going

1569
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,840
to shoot X with Y, you know, like substitute. It's

1570
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:25,640
like mad lips, right, substitute your favorite you know, object

1571
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:28,560
and combination of kinetic forces, right, And that's pretty much it.

1572
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:30,680
And that's like there's not a lot of information to

1573
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,560
be had, you know, It's it's entertaining, right as popcorn whatever.

1574
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:35,720
I don't book grudge it to anyone. And as you

1575
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:38,159
get kind of like further and further in until you've

1576
01:22:38,199 --> 01:22:40,640
reached the stage where you're like, well, if this channel

1577
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:43,119
has more than five thousand subscribers, and I can actually

1578
01:22:43,239 --> 01:22:45,680
hear the guy talking over the massive fan in this

1579
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:49,159
machine shop not interested, you know, which is obviously like, Okay,

1580
01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:52,119
you've probably over rarefied your taste. But I think it's

1581
01:22:52,159 --> 01:22:54,239
a it's a more healthy spot because you know, one

1582
01:22:54,239 --> 01:22:56,640
of the things I really remember in the kind of

1583
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,479
like mid two thousands was just how far how hard

1584
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:02,800
it was to get any sort of information whatsoever. And

1585
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,079
so I remember, like you get my grandpa's house like

1586
01:23:05,199 --> 01:23:08,159
thumbing through like soldier of Fortune magazine from before I

1587
01:23:08,359 --> 01:23:11,520
was born, and like, I don't know, like guns and AMMO,

1588
01:23:12,039 --> 01:23:14,680
it'd be like, well, I guess, I guess the best

1589
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,680
gun there is is a Kimber forty five. And I'm

1590
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:19,680
eight years old, you know. Where it's like you just

1591
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:21,000
don't have reputable information.

1592
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 6: M Yeah, And that's definitely changed. And like you said,

1593
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,319
I think it's important for all those facets to be

1594
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:35,560
in place, right, because you almost have the the normy too,

1595
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:40,359
like prepared citizen pipeline, if you will. Right, So there's

1596
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:43,000
this super low level propaganda that might not even be

1597
01:23:43,199 --> 01:23:47,039
like strictly pro to A propaganda or pro gun propaganda,

1598
01:23:47,119 --> 01:23:50,159
being you know, like movies and video games, TV shows

1599
01:23:50,199 --> 01:23:53,680
and whatnot that might tangentially get a few percentage points

1600
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:57,399
of people interested in guns. And then you have your

1601
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,680
your normy slop content, right, which is like, hey, are

1602
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:04,840
these boobies? These fake boobies? What to do is like

1603
01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:07,800
will a twenty two go through these? Basically like you said, right,

1604
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:10,680
we'll ex penetrate wire whatever it happens to be. You

1605
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,119
have the more high level, which is like a little

1606
01:24:13,119 --> 01:24:16,439
bit more entertaining, a little more information focused. And then

1607
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,039
like the next step up is like the hyper like Okay,

1608
01:24:19,079 --> 01:24:21,520
we're starting a militia, we're prepared citizens, and we're doing

1609
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,079
that right, and as long as there's a pipeline there

1610
01:24:25,279 --> 01:24:27,520
to get people into like the more pro to A

1611
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:31,159
side of it, I in general am fine with the

1612
01:24:31,399 --> 01:24:35,079
entertainment style content, but I also don't want that to

1613
01:24:35,399 --> 01:24:37,960
just be the only thing, and that's where people stop.

1614
01:24:38,279 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 7: Right. Well, my favorite dark pastime is so YouTube shorts abomination.

1615
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:50,720
I'm mad that it exists. However, have you ever been

1616
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,760
down the rabbit hole of ghetto YouTube? Shorts exactly as

1617
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:55,760
regards firearms.

1618
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:01,159
Speaker 6: It's the worst I know can do this, and it's

1619
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:06,800
the one step above actual ghetto YouTube content. But there's

1620
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,399
enough of it there where you could make a react

1621
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:14,560
style video once a week. It was very entertaining. It

1622
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:18,520
would get a lot of views, and it's just it's

1623
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:21,439
essentially like this is gonna. I don't think I can

1624
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:23,600
say this, but it's like going to the zoo.

1625
01:25:24,359 --> 01:25:25,600
Speaker 7: It's like David attenb.

1626
01:25:27,239 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, you look inside, you laugh, and then you leave.

1627
01:25:30,079 --> 01:25:32,720
But in this case, you're the tour guide, right, so

1628
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:36,479
you're just bringing your audience through this zoo. Everybody points

1629
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:38,560
and laughs, and then you come back next week.

1630
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:38,760
Speaker 7: Right.

1631
01:25:39,239 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 6: That content, that's like it's still low level content, but

1632
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:45,359
that would be so easy to monetize, right, because it's

1633
01:25:45,399 --> 01:25:46,560
so painful you watch this.

1634
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 2: I know.

1635
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 6: There was the one clip floating around where the guy

1636
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:52,840
like shoots his floor with an ar and then he

1637
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,800
explains how he's doing it, and then he does it again,

1638
01:25:56,079 --> 01:25:56,520
and it's like.

1639
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 7: Off camera shot his floor in the apartment.

1640
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:04,560
Speaker 6: Right, and then you do it again. All right, people,

1641
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:09,279
This it's it's amazing content, true, is one of the

1642
01:26:09,359 --> 01:26:10,319
things of all time.

1643
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 7: One of the other great sub genres is uh aspiring

1644
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:19,680
young astrophysicists shooting off full auto glocks in residential neighborhoods

1645
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:22,279
and then posting it on the internet with their face.

1646
01:26:23,159 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 6: My one is the one where they combine those super

1647
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:29,159
cheap tracer rounds so it looks like a light show

1648
01:26:29,279 --> 01:26:29,840
is going off.

1649
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:33,199
Speaker 7: You know, they just spray it into a lake in

1650
01:26:33,279 --> 01:26:34,399
the middle of the neighborhood.

1651
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:38,560
Speaker 6: I believe this was unintentional, but in one of those

1652
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:41,760
shorts that I've seen, the audio comes off and it's

1653
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,880
like unintelligible. You know, it's talking that has these subtitles

1654
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,560
and they're speaking, but the subtitles are just unintelligible.

1655
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 2: And I don't know that.

1656
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,119
Speaker 6: Just that it doesn't know what they're saying. I don't

1657
01:26:55,119 --> 01:26:56,359
know if there's any generator but.

1658
01:26:57,119 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 7: YouTube AI, No, that's that's like one of the one

1659
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:06,600
of the And honestly, this is why I met up

1660
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:09,600
with another guy who's been on my podcast a couple

1661
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,319
of times, went out, you know, shot guns, had a

1662
01:27:11,359 --> 01:27:15,079
good time and we were talking about the absolute horror

1663
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:19,199
that is shooting at public ranges. Right. You know, I'm

1664
01:27:19,279 --> 01:27:21,600
lucky enough now to have you know, multiple pieces of property,

1665
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:22,680
I can go on and shoot at it.

1666
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:23,359
Speaker 2: It's great.

1667
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,960
Speaker 7: But in the town that I went to college in, right,

1668
01:27:27,039 --> 01:27:28,880
it was kind of a small rural town, big state

1669
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:31,039
school in the middle of it. There was a free

1670
01:27:31,079 --> 01:27:37,359
shooting range and it was just chaos, pure chaos at

1671
01:27:37,399 --> 01:27:41,920
all times, all genres. And the last time I ever

1672
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,520
went there, there was a big It was an engineering school, right,

1673
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,319
so there was a big Chinese population, and there was

1674
01:27:48,399 --> 01:27:51,199
this Chinese kid there first showed up with one of

1675
01:27:51,239 --> 01:27:54,159
those kind of like gamer twenty two rifles they used

1676
01:27:54,199 --> 01:27:56,800
for like Olympic sports or whatever, not that interesting. So

1677
01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:58,640
I'm shooting, you know, I got my target in front

1678
01:27:58,640 --> 01:27:59,880
of me, and I hear this.

1679
01:28:00,119 --> 01:28:01,600
Speaker 2: Just deafening boom.

1680
01:28:02,399 --> 01:28:04,279
Speaker 7: I look over and this kid has pulled out this

1681
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:07,640
like massive nickel plated revolver, and I'm like, well, that's

1682
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:10,840
that's disturbing. And then what I realize is more disturbing

1683
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:13,439
is he has not brought a target. He is shooting

1684
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:17,640
at my target, and he is three to four lanes

1685
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:22,399
down from me, And the misses start to get closer

1686
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:25,159
and closer, right, Like the first one is like low

1687
01:28:25,359 --> 01:28:28,000
a foot in front of the target than like six

1688
01:28:28,079 --> 01:28:30,159
feet in front of the target, and I'm like just

1689
01:28:30,279 --> 01:28:33,159
watching this triangle shrink and I was like, all right,

1690
01:28:33,319 --> 01:28:35,319
I'm gone, I'm never coming back. That was the last

1691
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:37,960
moment I went to a public range. And I'll put

1692
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,199
it this way, that is not an atypical story. So

1693
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:42,840
I'm curious, right, do you do you shoot on private land?

1694
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:44,359
Have you had similar horror stories?

1695
01:28:45,159 --> 01:28:48,039
Speaker 6: So in Washington where I live, I was there for

1696
01:28:48,159 --> 01:28:51,239
twenty seven years before they basically tried to shut down

1697
01:28:51,279 --> 01:28:54,800
my business. But there are there's so much public land

1698
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,319
in western Washington and even eastern Washington when I was

1699
01:28:57,319 --> 01:28:59,920
going to college there that you can basically kind of

1700
01:29:00,319 --> 01:29:04,079
find a place within thirty minutes. Like I had Capital Forest,

1701
01:29:04,239 --> 01:29:06,600
I had some old rock quarries that I used to

1702
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:12,079
shoot at, so they were public spaces, but maybe once

1703
01:29:12,159 --> 01:29:14,439
every couple months, as somebody who shot all the time,

1704
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:16,359
I would run into somebody else, but usually it's not

1705
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:20,399
a big deal. Out here in South Dakota, there's no

1706
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,479
public land, so I have to drive three hours to

1707
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:27,560
go to the National Grasslands in Pier and there's one

1708
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:30,800
public range about an hour and a half from me

1709
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:36,880
that I do go to somewhat often. And in South

1710
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:42,039
Dakota fortunately, especially rural South Dakota, there's almost never anybody

1711
01:29:42,119 --> 01:29:46,680
there at its beautiful lanes, no trash, you know, and

1712
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:49,119
it's your own space too, because there's basically berms in

1713
01:29:49,199 --> 01:29:52,640
between each set. So I think there's a twenty five set,

1714
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:55,199
a fifty set, and then two one hundred yard lanes

1715
01:29:55,199 --> 01:29:57,479
where you can essentially it's like fifty feet wide one

1716
01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:59,439
hundred feet wide on some of the bigger ones, so

1717
01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:01,880
you can kind of do whatever you want. So, I mean,

1718
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:04,039
I've talked to cops out there because they'll stop you

1719
01:30:04,119 --> 01:30:05,800
and like, hey, you know, how's it going. They'll just

1720
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:08,520
chat with you. And for me, it's like I'm always

1721
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:13,000
having SBRs. I have suppressors, I have binaries or FRTs

1722
01:30:13,079 --> 01:30:16,199
out there, So I do get the odd look every

1723
01:30:16,279 --> 01:30:18,880
now and again, especially when you're like kit it up,

1724
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,079
you know, with a camera sitting next to you and

1725
01:30:21,119 --> 01:30:23,880
people are driving by and they're like, what's this retard doing?

1726
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:25,199
Speaker 2: And yeah.

1727
01:30:25,479 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 6: So, I mean, my interactions out here in South Dakota

1728
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,840
very pleasant. But if I were near a big city,

1729
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,000
I think I would have a very different set of

1730
01:30:36,119 --> 01:30:39,720
experiences with the clientele of these free ranges. I have

1731
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:42,000
heard all the horror stories, so it is quite fun

1732
01:30:42,079 --> 01:30:42,680
to think about that.

1733
01:30:43,399 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, see, I had a slightly different problem. I just

1734
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:53,159
had like crazy Chinese expats and then like rednecks, which

1735
01:30:53,239 --> 01:30:55,439
is its own separate variety of an issue. But it's

1736
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:57,239
actually it's funny bring that up. I knew you were

1737
01:30:57,239 --> 01:30:59,800
in the Pacific Northwest just from write the geography of it.

1738
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:02,960
I went up there for the first time in my

1739
01:31:03,159 --> 01:31:05,560
entire life a few weeks ago for a conference, and

1740
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,520
that is a beautiful area of the country, ruled by

1741
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:12,640
the worst people in the world. Deeply sorry about that,

1742
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:16,800
but I understand the appeal. It's it's genuinely beautiful out there.

1743
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,279
Speaker 6: No, it is the most beautiful place Western Washington, White Pass,

1744
01:31:21,359 --> 01:31:23,079
no quality, all that stuff. If you ever get the

1745
01:31:23,159 --> 01:31:26,359
chance to drive that during winter time, check out what's

1746
01:31:26,399 --> 01:31:28,880
that place Levenworth, which was like an old German town

1747
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:33,319
up there, Absolutely beautiful, but can't stand the people, so

1748
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:35,600
absolutely ruins the experience.

1749
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:35,760
Speaker 7: All.

1750
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:38,399
Speaker 6: I like a lot of places like I mean, California's gorgeous, right,

1751
01:31:38,399 --> 01:31:41,039
everybody would love to live in California, great weather, great beaches.

1752
01:31:41,079 --> 01:31:41,920
Can't stand the people.

1753
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:48,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm I'm actually here's here's my thing with that area,

1754
01:31:49,359 --> 01:31:53,159
and it's uh, I've only been to Portland. Right the

1755
01:31:53,279 --> 01:31:57,800
way people described Portland, I was expecting mogadichu right like

1756
01:31:57,920 --> 01:31:59,960
I was. I was expecting it to be unlivable.

1757
01:32:00,399 --> 01:32:01,159
Speaker 6: Well, wered you wrong?

1758
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:02,600
Speaker 2: Why would you over it?

1759
01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:04,640
Speaker 7: Yeah? I went over like the whole city. I was

1760
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:06,159
there for a couple of days. You didn't have much

1761
01:32:06,159 --> 01:32:08,840
to do it. Don't get me wrong, it's not great.

1762
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:12,199
But what tips it over from just being like a dirty,

1763
01:32:12,279 --> 01:32:15,319
crappy city with a punch with a ton of homeless people,

1764
01:32:15,319 --> 01:32:16,920
which I hate to say it is not a rare

1765
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:21,840
thing anymore, is the Pacific Northwest. Lib Tart is a

1766
01:32:22,039 --> 01:32:26,000
very specific breed. And it made sense because I have

1767
01:32:26,199 --> 01:32:29,159
been to other places that felt like they were dressing

1768
01:32:29,279 --> 01:32:31,920
up as that, like that's what they aspired to be.

1769
01:32:32,359 --> 01:32:33,039
Speaker 2: And I felt like I.

1770
01:32:33,079 --> 01:32:34,840
Speaker 7: Saw the original. I was like, oh, this is who

1771
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:37,119
you're copying, and there's somehow even worse.

1772
01:32:37,279 --> 01:32:39,279
Speaker 2: Somebody else is just a cheap knockoff.

1773
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:40,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.

1774
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:44,039
Speaker 6: I have to drive into Portland every week for an

1775
01:32:44,119 --> 01:32:46,720
outside sales job that I had, so I am very

1776
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:49,239
familiar with the downtown areas in there. You know, I

1777
01:32:49,279 --> 01:32:51,079
would I would like walk the Capitol at night and

1778
01:32:51,159 --> 01:32:52,920
do stupid stuff like that with my friends, and it

1779
01:32:53,039 --> 01:32:55,920
was a we probably didn't realize how stupid that was

1780
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,239
at the time of nineteen nineteen, walking around just just

1781
01:32:59,319 --> 01:33:02,119
homeless people like surrounding you everywhere, and like, oh, this

1782
01:33:02,279 --> 01:33:03,960
is it's like going to the zoo again. Probably don't

1783
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:06,680
do this. It's bad, it's not moral. But at the

1784
01:33:06,720 --> 01:33:08,159
time it was like entertaining, you know.

1785
01:33:09,119 --> 01:33:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it was twenty nine. I'm like, okay, no,

1786
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:12,960
this is just really sad, you know.

1787
01:33:14,319 --> 01:33:17,159
Speaker 7: Yeah. The UH I had a similar experience. I lived

1788
01:33:17,199 --> 01:33:20,159
in kind of one of these like crumbling urban centers

1789
01:33:20,199 --> 01:33:24,760
in the UH in the American South, and UH there

1790
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:28,920
was this there was this old theater, like really really old,

1791
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:33,680
like you know, maybe twenty uh like twenty screen theater

1792
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:37,199
that had been boarded up on all sides, but the

1793
01:33:37,399 --> 01:33:41,479
upper windows had been like smashed out, and every night

1794
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:43,760
when I lived there, it was like a zombie movie.

1795
01:33:44,199 --> 01:33:46,600
Like it would get dark and you'd see movement and

1796
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:50,279
people would just start like pouring out of this theater.

1797
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:52,680
And it was like one of the creepiest things ever

1798
01:33:53,039 --> 01:33:54,560
because like you you would kind of do the math.

1799
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:57,680
You're like, that's like it's probably like seventy eighty people

1800
01:33:58,319 --> 01:34:01,000
just in there, like in the dark, cold day, And

1801
01:34:01,279 --> 01:34:03,159
uh yeah, I'm very happy to live in a place

1802
01:34:03,199 --> 01:34:04,720
where there are no homeless people. Now.

1803
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny you say that.

1804
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:09,079
Speaker 6: It's like it's twenty six out here in South Dakota

1805
01:34:09,119 --> 01:34:10,399
now and I live in a town of like seven

1806
01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:14,640
hundred people, So there is actually zero homeless people here

1807
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:17,640
because homeless people cannot survive here.

1808
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:21,039
Speaker 7: That's the advantage of living in the far north. It

1809
01:34:21,159 --> 01:34:22,000
gets too cold.

1810
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:25,920
Speaker 6: Well yeah, and there's there's no big city for forty miles, right,

1811
01:34:26,039 --> 01:34:29,159
so there's like there's literally nowhere for them to go

1812
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:33,079
well out of you That's what lot about that, isn't there.

1813
01:34:33,119 --> 01:34:35,760
It's like there's no chance to be homeless, so therefore,

1814
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:40,039
you know, like people people have to find a way

1815
01:34:40,079 --> 01:34:41,479
to not be homeless, so they end up not.

1816
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:48,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's an interesting, interesting thought process. Yeah, yeah, it's uh,

1817
01:34:50,159 --> 01:34:52,439
I definitely don't miss it having you know, lived in

1818
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:54,920
a bigger city for a for a portion of my life.

1819
01:34:55,199 --> 01:34:56,800
You know, if you have the same interest that we do,

1820
01:34:57,239 --> 01:34:59,439
you just realize, why do I live in a place

1821
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:01,399
where every thing I want to do is illegal and

1822
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:05,039
everyone hates me, you know, right, Yeah, it's a pretty

1823
01:35:05,039 --> 01:35:05,920
easy trade to make.

1824
01:35:07,119 --> 01:35:09,680
Speaker 6: And so like the move to South Dakota was like,

1825
01:35:10,399 --> 01:35:11,319
people are nice.

1826
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:12,640
Speaker 2: Everybody waves at you.

1827
01:35:13,239 --> 01:35:15,560
Speaker 6: Like a year and a living year. People are like, oh, yeah,

1828
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:18,079
you're the new guy. You live over there on Second Street,

1829
01:35:18,079 --> 01:35:20,399
you know, or whatever it is, because they recognize you

1830
01:35:20,399 --> 01:35:22,039
because you haven't been there for thirty years.

1831
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:22,840
Speaker 2: Right.

1832
01:35:23,399 --> 01:35:26,319
Speaker 6: It's just so such a different dynamic and a different

1833
01:35:26,399 --> 01:35:29,640
type of person in the rural farmlands, you know, than

1834
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:32,840
like these people who do actually hate you, right, and

1835
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:34,600
especially as you know, I have a wife, I have

1836
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:38,359
three kids now, three little kids. I'm just never living

1837
01:35:38,399 --> 01:35:41,720
around people who I don't trust. It's just not worth it,

1838
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:43,760
you know, to so what I don't have a twenty

1839
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,239
four hour gas station five minutes away, you know. That's

1840
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:49,880
that's the main downside. Life isn't as convenient, but it's

1841
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:50,760
one hundred times better.

1842
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:53,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a really interesting point. You know. It's something

1843
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,239
I talk about a lot about a lot about on

1844
01:35:56,359 --> 01:35:59,960
this show, right, is that like, yeah, sure, like they're

1845
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:03,159
there's no free lunch. You're gonna have to give something up,

1846
01:36:03,279 --> 01:36:07,039
which actually weirdly enough, is something true both in your

1847
01:36:07,079 --> 01:36:10,439
living arrangements and your choice in firearms and firearms accessories, right,

1848
01:36:11,079 --> 01:36:14,039
which is like, at a certain point, like you can't

1849
01:36:14,119 --> 01:36:16,199
have it all, you know, you have to make some

1850
01:36:16,319 --> 01:36:19,000
sacrifices and having you know, lived in a point in

1851
01:36:19,079 --> 01:36:21,199
my life where I was, you know, working a good

1852
01:36:21,279 --> 01:36:24,720
job in a cool area with lots of things to

1853
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:27,640
do and to buy, but also living in a place

1854
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:31,319
where there's like a you know, decrepit movie theater full

1855
01:36:31,359 --> 01:36:34,239
of like one hundred crazy meth heads, and everything got

1856
01:36:34,319 --> 01:36:37,439
stolen and I'd walk outside and see human poop everywhere.

1857
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:40,359
You're like, you know what, maybe I don't care about

1858
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:42,479
a fresh market on my block. You know, maybe there

1859
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:43,520
are other things in life.

1860
01:36:44,119 --> 01:36:46,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's something more important than this. I don't know

1861
01:36:46,359 --> 01:36:49,520
if this is healthy for anyone to live like this, Oh.

1862
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:51,800
Speaker 7: One hundred person. I mean, look like you go there

1863
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:55,279
and you see the people there, They're not healthy. So obviously,

1864
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:57,479
you know, you and I could probably talk about, you know,

1865
01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:00,479
cities for a long time. I genuinely hate most cities

1866
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:02,640
in America. But you know, one of the things that

1867
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:05,399
I think would be useful for for my audience, who

1868
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:09,479
isn't necessarily super interested gun stuff. So let's say you know,

1869
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:11,920
you're a guy, you're out of school, you've got a

1870
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:14,399
decent job, no experience with guns.

1871
01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:18,239
Speaker 2: Where do you start, right? If you're in that situation, well,

1872
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:20,039
you see, you.

1873
01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:23,800
Speaker 6: Start with a five thousand dollars night's armament and you

1874
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:25,840
call it a day. Then you strap on like a

1875
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:29,079
two hundred dollars Strike Eagle Vortex Strike Eagle, and you're

1876
01:37:29,159 --> 01:37:29,479
good to.

1877
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 2: Go one hundred percent.

1878
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:35,279
Speaker 6: Look, the most important, the best advice that I give

1879
01:37:35,319 --> 01:37:39,960
to people is please do not ask me about other platforms.

1880
01:37:40,079 --> 01:37:42,359
It's going to be an AR fifteen. You're going to

1881
01:37:42,399 --> 01:37:45,159
buy an AR fifteen. If you have a little bit

1882
01:37:45,199 --> 01:37:48,279
of money, you can start with a bottom of the

1883
01:37:48,319 --> 01:37:52,239
barrel PSA. It might work for a couple thousand rounds

1884
01:37:52,279 --> 01:37:54,560
and you'll probably end up upgrading some parts. But that's

1885
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:58,079
a good learning experience. I wouldn't recommend it as a

1886
01:37:59,119 --> 01:38:01,039
I'm never going to train with this and I'm going

1887
01:38:01,119 --> 01:38:03,960
to defend or you know, depend on it to defend

1888
01:38:04,039 --> 01:38:05,720
my life with the life of my loved ones with.

1889
01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:08,279
But if you just need something to start with, it's

1890
01:38:08,319 --> 01:38:10,399
a good start and you can upgrade if you have

1891
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:12,520
a little bit more money, I think there are better

1892
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:16,359
brands out there. BCM gets thrown around a lot, but

1893
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:19,079
there are some smaller builders out there as well that

1894
01:38:19,279 --> 01:38:22,600
will put together a really high quality AR fifteen for you.

1895
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:25,319
I've heard really good things about like Munition Works and

1896
01:38:25,399 --> 01:38:28,920
bare Arms, who essentially use off the shelf parts, but

1897
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:32,239
the assembly is very important and there are people that

1898
01:38:32,399 --> 01:38:34,359
do it really well. And so if you have a

1899
01:38:34,399 --> 01:38:37,880
little bit more money that BCM, some of these other

1900
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:39,600
guys are going to do a really, really good job

1901
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:39,840
for that.

1902
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:43,520
Speaker 7: So I'm curious, does that mean that your first your

1903
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:45,199
first purchase is a rifle.

1904
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:50,159
Speaker 6: Well, it depends, I guess. I guess it depends on

1905
01:38:50,239 --> 01:38:54,319
where you live. Most people would should start with a handgun.

1906
01:38:54,399 --> 01:38:57,800
Handguns are more difficult, they're less useful, but you can

1907
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:02,239
carry them everywhere. So if that is your primary concern, yeah,

1908
01:39:02,319 --> 01:39:06,359
start with a handgun. Now, when it comes to handguns,

1909
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:11,640
obviously glock is the big one. I don't particularly love clocks,

1910
01:39:12,239 --> 01:39:15,279
but if you want something that's reliable and that you

1911
01:39:15,359 --> 01:39:17,880
can train with and get better with, a glock is

1912
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:20,239
a great way to start. You can also go an

1913
01:39:20,319 --> 01:39:23,600
M and P two point zero fantastic option be a

1914
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:28,079
Walther PDPs, great option, CZ's great options. You don't need

1915
01:39:28,159 --> 01:39:32,319
anything fancy. You can find fantastic handguns for in between

1916
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:35,359
four and five hundred dollars that are gonna dependably and

1917
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:38,279
reliably get the job done. But most of what I

1918
01:39:38,359 --> 01:39:41,960
do is rifles because I hate handguns. I hate shooting handguns.

1919
01:39:42,359 --> 01:39:44,359
It's just something I'm forced to do because it's a

1920
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:45,159
necessary skill.

1921
01:39:45,239 --> 01:39:46,560
Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, you.

1922
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:50,159
Speaker 7: Sound you sound exactly like my uh, one of my

1923
01:39:50,279 --> 01:39:54,279
main shooting buddies who has been dragged kicking and screaming

1924
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:58,079
to be even semi competent at shooting a pistol because

1925
01:39:58,119 --> 01:40:01,920
he hates it. I enjoy. I certainly get your point.

1926
01:40:02,039 --> 01:40:06,720
It is, by every objective standard, a worse weapon. Really.

1927
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:09,600
The only advantage is I could put this in a pocket,

1928
01:40:10,119 --> 01:40:12,640
and you know, even in an eleven to five is

1929
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:15,640
show we say, somewhat inconvenient to fit under your coat.

1930
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:19,680
Speaker 2: Suboptimal inside of your pants for sure. Now.

1931
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:23,199
Speaker 6: Yeah, so if your audience isn't familiar handguns, they just

1932
01:40:23,359 --> 01:40:31,079
require a lot more time and intentionality to get good with. Essentially,

1933
01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:34,680
so they're not easy to control the recoil, especially if

1934
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:38,159
you're somebody with reduced to strength. Whereas with almost any rifle,

1935
01:40:38,239 --> 01:40:40,800
you can basically just point in the direction, pull the trigger.

1936
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:44,960
You'll figure it out very easily. But handguns do take

1937
01:40:45,239 --> 01:40:51,680
a lot more intentional training, time, energy, and unfortunately money

1938
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:53,319
to get good with because you're going to end up

1939
01:40:53,319 --> 01:40:54,960
spending if you want to actually get good, You're going

1940
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:56,560
to spend a lot of time dry firing, and you're

1941
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:58,399
going to spend a lot of time on the ammunition.

1942
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:05,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's an interesting point, right, But buying a gun

1943
01:41:06,039 --> 01:41:10,840
is sort of similar to the actual, like listed price

1944
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:14,359
of a house, right, which is like it's a significant portion,

1945
01:41:15,039 --> 01:41:17,840
but that is not your final total, right, Like you

1946
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:18,840
need to budget for all.

1947
01:41:20,199 --> 01:41:21,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say it's like the down payment on

1948
01:41:21,880 --> 01:41:22,239
a house.

1949
01:41:22,399 --> 01:41:26,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly right, Like that is a component, right, and

1950
01:41:26,399 --> 01:41:29,279
it's important, but you know, so many people I think

1951
01:41:29,319 --> 01:41:32,039
it kind of like obsessed with a certain dollar amount

1952
01:41:32,119 --> 01:41:34,520
as like all you're going to spend and there's no way,

1953
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:36,439
there's no two ways about it, right, it is at

1954
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:39,239
a certain point, it's expensive. It's going to cost you money.

1955
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:43,640
Now do you need to spend you know insert x,

1956
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:47,359
you know incredibly overpriced you know, gun price, like no,

1957
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:50,760
you don't something you know, cheap and cheerful work. But

1958
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:52,800
I mean I think that you know, if you're not

1959
01:41:53,199 --> 01:41:56,199
already interested in guns, like if it doesn't tickle your autism,

1960
01:41:56,840 --> 01:41:59,119
it's just a useful skill to have, right, Like you

1961
01:41:59,119 --> 01:42:01,680
should be dangerous, you should be capable, and that's something

1962
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:03,960
that can be done. It just requires a little bit

1963
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:08,399
of work, right, It's a it's an extremely perishable skill

1964
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:11,399
and if you're not you know, constantly brushing up on it,

1965
01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:12,960
it's going to go away quickly.

1966
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:17,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, one hundred percent. Again, it's just one of those

1967
01:42:17,800 --> 01:42:22,640
things that budgeting is important, right, especially if you're somebody

1968
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:25,159
onlimited funds like most of us are, so you're probably

1969
01:42:25,199 --> 01:42:28,079
not going to go out there and you know, spend

1970
01:42:28,239 --> 01:42:31,560
three thousand dollars on your STI or whatever they call

1971
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:35,039
it now. Or you know, most people, unfortunately with the

1972
01:42:35,079 --> 01:42:40,359
consumerism thing, having the item is hot and sexy. That's

1973
01:42:40,399 --> 01:42:41,960
what they want to have and show off and take

1974
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:44,279
pictures of it, and then they're like, oh, a case

1975
01:42:44,319 --> 01:42:46,760
of ammo is you know, two hundred and fifty bucks,

1976
01:42:47,239 --> 01:42:50,199
that's way too much money, right, Or they just don't

1977
01:42:50,239 --> 01:42:53,279
have the time to go out and train, so it

1978
01:42:53,399 --> 01:42:54,960
really does come down to being able to put in

1979
01:42:55,039 --> 01:42:57,800
the effort. Now, fortunately, dry fire is free, and if

1980
01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:00,000
your audience doess no what dry fire, that's basically practice

1981
01:43:00,039 --> 01:43:04,159
seeing weapon manipulations with no ammunition, So like finding your sites,

1982
01:43:04,279 --> 01:43:06,720
pulling the trigger, reloading, you can do all of that

1983
01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:10,800
stuff without ever firing a single round, but recoil control

1984
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:14,199
and actually like using it in live fire is super important.

1985
01:43:14,319 --> 01:43:16,840
But you can fortunately kind of mitigate some of those

1986
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:19,800
costs by spending fifteen twenty minutes a day dry firing

1987
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:20,520
doing stuff like that.

1988
01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:25,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's definitely something you know, I've I've seen

1989
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:29,600
in my own kind of progression, right because look, we've

1990
01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:32,680
talked about the kind of like rampant consumerism you need

1991
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:34,840
to buy this or you'll die kind of stuff. But

1992
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:38,159
there are things that are just objectively better, right, Like

1993
01:43:38,279 --> 01:43:42,119
it is, shooting a handgun with an optic is for

1994
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,239
pretty much everyone. Once you get used to it, going

1995
01:43:45,319 --> 01:43:48,199
to make you better. But it's a very difficult thing

1996
01:43:48,319 --> 01:43:50,680
to do right, at least as you're picking it up right,

1997
01:43:51,319 --> 01:43:53,920
And so that process of just like it sounds stupid,

1998
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:56,960
but getting your reps in right, going through the motions,

1999
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:00,720
figuring out how to do it is free. You get

2000
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:03,119
to make you know, gun noises and point a gun

2001
01:44:03,159 --> 01:44:04,760
at yourself in the mirror. That could be kind of fun,

2002
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:07,880
but you actually do get a genuine skill out of it,

2003
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:10,279
and you can take something that you know, ordinarily people

2004
01:44:10,279 --> 01:44:12,439
would say, oh, it takes you this many hours to do,

2005
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:15,359
which could cost you a lot of money, or you know,

2006
01:44:15,439 --> 01:44:18,359
you can just run the reps yourself and basically skip

2007
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:19,960
the front half of that learning curve.

2008
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:21,159
Speaker 2: Right, Like, it's not.

2009
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:24,800
Speaker 7: Super entertaining, you know, it's not like the cool thing

2010
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:27,279
you want to take photos of and potus on social media.

2011
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:30,399
But if your end goal is actually getting better at

2012
01:44:30,439 --> 01:44:33,560
the skill, that's how you do it well.

2013
01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:37,119
Speaker 6: Right, In some ways, it's like working out, right, So

2014
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:41,359
if you work out once a month, once every six months,

2015
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:45,960
you're going to have exactly zero progress. But if like me,

2016
01:44:46,119 --> 01:44:48,520
you're working out, you know, four times a week at least,

2017
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:50,359
and you're trying to get a five hundred pound deadlift,

2018
01:44:50,359 --> 01:44:52,520
a four hundred pound squad and a three hundred pound bench,

2019
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:54,359
well you're going to have to put in some work,

2020
01:44:54,399 --> 01:44:56,319
and you're gonna have to be not only just put

2021
01:44:56,399 --> 01:44:58,840
in the work, but be intentional when you're doing it

2022
01:44:58,920 --> 01:45:01,560
to have goals. You know, for shooting, if you want

2023
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:04,199
to use that analogy timer works really well, so you

2024
01:45:04,279 --> 01:45:06,960
can actually measure how fast you are, you know, take

2025
01:45:07,039 --> 01:45:09,960
note of how your hits are, use smaller targets, shoot

2026
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:12,159
a further distances, all that sort of stuff to kind

2027
01:45:12,199 --> 01:45:15,760
of stretch your capabilities if you will. You know, it's

2028
01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:17,800
just it's like a lot of things. You know, if

2029
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:19,960
you want to get good at performance driving, well, guess what,

2030
01:45:20,079 --> 01:45:22,039
you're going to have to spend some time on the

2031
01:45:22,119 --> 01:45:24,000
track and spend some money. You're gonna have to get fuel,

2032
01:45:24,039 --> 01:45:25,640
You're gonna have to get tires, do all this sort

2033
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:29,119
of stuff. So I think that it is very important,

2034
01:45:29,199 --> 01:45:31,159
especially for all of us here in America, that we

2035
01:45:31,239 --> 01:45:34,920
actually not only have these rights, but exercise them and

2036
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:39,399
get good with them so that you know, because again

2037
01:45:39,479 --> 01:45:41,600
you can own the things, you can buy the things,

2038
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:44,000
but if you don't have the skills to back it

2039
01:45:44,119 --> 01:45:46,319
up or to actually use them an application, you're just

2040
01:45:46,399 --> 01:45:48,520
going to be a high value loot drop for somebody

2041
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:49,800
else who has put in the work.

2042
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:53,960
Speaker 7: We at a certain point, right like when when lefties say,

2043
01:45:54,279 --> 01:45:58,399
you know, people treat guns like fetishes or magic objects

2044
01:45:59,199 --> 01:46:02,159
in many cases not actually that wrong, Like people kind

2045
01:46:02,159 --> 01:46:04,800
of treat them like dream catchers, right where it's like

2046
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:06,880
I'll put this under my bed and it will protect

2047
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:09,600
me from the evil eye. You know, which is this?

2048
01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:12,479
This like will simply by owning it, it has granted

2049
01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:15,960
me protection. And yeah, that's not true, right, It's a

2050
01:46:16,079 --> 01:46:18,800
it's a tool with a skill associated with it. I mean,

2051
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:21,520
it's like saying, well, I own boxing gloves, therefore I'm

2052
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:24,560
gonna fight Mike Tyson or not current Mike Tyson the

2053
01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:31,359
like currently you probably have a pretty decent chance anyway,

2054
01:46:32,079 --> 01:46:35,239
not to make fun of the elderly. But it is right,

2055
01:46:35,319 --> 01:46:36,359
like it actually there's.

2056
01:46:38,159 --> 01:46:39,079
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

2057
01:46:40,119 --> 01:46:41,720
Speaker 7: I like how we as a country we're like, yeah,

2058
01:46:42,039 --> 01:46:44,239
it's too mean to make Biden be the president, put

2059
01:46:44,319 --> 01:46:46,399
Mike Tyson in the ring and make him suffer. I

2060
01:46:46,439 --> 01:46:49,399
think this country is just addicted to making old people suffer.

2061
01:46:50,760 --> 01:46:53,399
Speaker 6: Well, if you want to talk about like a form

2062
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:58,079
of degeneracy is when our decadence is when the entertainment

2063
01:46:58,239 --> 01:47:04,840
becomes so it has to become wild and just insane

2064
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:08,680
in so many different ways for to actually like impress people.

2065
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:11,720
I suppose you know, like boxing is too boring now,

2066
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:14,800
so now we're gonna do mma. We're gonna increase the violence.

2067
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:16,840
And if it's boxing, it needs to be a spectacle

2068
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:20,319
of some famous person beating up another famous like we

2069
01:47:20,359 --> 01:47:22,479
have to we have to combine things together. Right, So

2070
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:25,439
I'm gonna have a movie star box a TikTok star

2071
01:47:25,560 --> 01:47:27,680
and that's gonna be it because a regular boxing match

2072
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:29,760
is no longer exciting enough for us.

2073
01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:30,000
Speaker 2: Right.

2074
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:33,880
Speaker 7: Well, look, as uh, maybe this is a situation I

2075
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:36,680
should not comment on. Is the number one fan of

2076
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:41,600
the police Activity YouTube channel? Uh so, but no, I

2077
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:43,640
get your point, right, I'm actually just talking with my

2078
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:47,359
wife about this. Uh because and this is gonna be

2079
01:47:47,439 --> 01:47:50,119
difficult to say for the sake of YouTube, uh because

2080
01:47:50,159 --> 01:47:51,920
it's a little bit untowarded. But one of the weird

2081
01:47:52,199 --> 01:47:56,319
trends in movies, right is, you know, ever since Game

2082
01:47:56,359 --> 01:47:59,039
of Thrones, the like edgy cool thing you could do

2083
01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:01,600
right to sh that you were really out there. So

2084
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:04,039
first it was like full frontal nudity, then it was

2085
01:48:04,119 --> 01:48:06,680
full frontal mail nudity, and that was like a progressive thing,

2086
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:09,159
like oh, we're you know, abolishing the nudity gap in

2087
01:48:09,199 --> 01:48:13,520
a movie like the recent one. And again, forgive me

2088
01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:15,199
for saying this. Understand it's a little bit untowor it,

2089
01:48:15,239 --> 01:48:18,079
but it's it's relevant to the conversation. Is that, you know,

2090
01:48:18,119 --> 01:48:19,720
there's this movie that came out, it's called like Salt

2091
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:22,399
Burn or something, and there've been a kind of like

2092
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:25,880
a couple of copycat films which you've basically been showing

2093
01:48:26,239 --> 01:48:29,680
like a forcible male sodomy right on screen, like, oh,

2094
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:32,720
that's the that's the thing, right, And you see that

2095
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:35,319
even over the course of my life right there, like wow,

2096
01:48:35,800 --> 01:48:37,920
you know, Game of Thrones is so shocking and edgy.

2097
01:48:38,399 --> 01:48:40,279
Two you know, ten years later, it's like, well, in

2098
01:48:40,399 --> 01:48:43,880
order to get that same visceral reaction from people, you

2099
01:48:44,079 --> 01:48:47,359
have to like really really jack up, you know, the

2100
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:50,359
amount of shock value to it. And so, like we

2101
01:48:50,439 --> 01:48:53,359
were talking earlier about, you know, like the downsides of

2102
01:48:53,439 --> 01:48:55,520
living in the city, and you know, one of the

2103
01:48:55,560 --> 01:48:57,920
things that I noticed that I didn't really like about

2104
01:48:57,960 --> 01:49:01,560
myself living in a city is that I got incredibly

2105
01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:08,159
callous to like just human suffering. Right, Like I saw

2106
01:49:08,319 --> 01:49:10,920
like a horrible say, but like I saw a guy

2107
01:49:11,159 --> 01:49:13,279
overdose and die in front of my apartment, and I

2108
01:49:13,399 --> 01:49:15,560
just walked past it. I mean, like to be fair

2109
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:19,319
that the ambulance was there, he was very visibly already dead.

2110
01:49:19,359 --> 01:49:21,680
It's not like I could do anything right, But like

2111
01:49:22,039 --> 01:49:23,359
looking back on that, I was like, I don't like

2112
01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:25,840
how that just didn't affect me at the time. And

2113
01:49:26,079 --> 01:49:28,039
you know, some of that people do to themselves, right,

2114
01:49:28,159 --> 01:49:31,439
like with media or entertainment, but another part of its environmental,

2115
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:33,520
and like I don't know, one of the things is

2116
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:37,880
like that instinct is in you for a good reason, right,

2117
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:40,560
and just deadening it on this kind of like meaningless

2118
01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:42,880
stimulus is probably not good for you or good for your.

2119
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:45,159
Speaker 2: Soul one hundred percent.

2120
01:49:45,239 --> 01:49:49,359
Speaker 6: I mean culturally, we have become desensitized to so much

2121
01:49:50,319 --> 01:49:54,119
like like you said, like with the progression of degeneracy

2122
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:58,840
in media, with the you know, quote unquote TikTok what's

2123
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:02,319
it called brain rot that's out there where there needs

2124
01:50:02,399 --> 01:50:06,439
to be a constant dopamine hit, and if there's any

2125
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:08,840
sort of negative emotions, we just suppress it and walk

2126
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:09,239
by it.

2127
01:50:09,359 --> 01:50:09,760
Speaker 2: Basically.

2128
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:13,319
Speaker 6: Funnily enough, I've heard similar stories to what you just

2129
01:50:13,319 --> 01:50:15,840
said of people living in cities and they'll be a

2130
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:18,560
helpless guy odd on the ground and it's like do

2131
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:20,920
I help him and get stabbed with a needle, or

2132
01:50:21,079 --> 01:50:23,399
do I just walk on by? Do I call the cops?

2133
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:25,760
And then a lot of people choose just to do

2134
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:30,680
nothing in that situation, right, And it's it's a dangerous situation,

2135
01:50:30,840 --> 01:50:32,399
but it's also at the same time it's like, well,

2136
01:50:32,520 --> 01:50:34,279
we're both human beings. We should try and help each

2137
01:50:34,279 --> 01:50:36,840
other out, surely, but society's gotten to a point where

2138
01:50:38,359 --> 01:50:40,359
it sounds callous to say, but it's like it's almost

2139
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:43,600
not worth helping out our fellow man. For the ramifications

2140
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:45,640
like if we do something wrong, if we injure somebody,

2141
01:50:46,079 --> 01:50:48,279
you know, it comes back on us. The easiest thing

2142
01:50:48,399 --> 01:50:49,039
is to do nothing.

2143
01:50:49,760 --> 01:50:52,239
Speaker 7: Well, that's the whole like Daniel Penny thing, right, you

2144
01:50:52,319 --> 01:50:54,920
know he restrained the guy who's flipping out on the

2145
01:50:54,960 --> 01:50:57,600
subway trying to hurt people, and I mean he's he's

2146
01:50:57,640 --> 01:51:00,920
on trial for murder, right, you know, And you see

2147
01:51:00,960 --> 01:51:02,720
that happen a couple of times, and you're like, all right,

2148
01:51:03,119 --> 01:51:05,880
not today. You know, I'm not going to help anyone out.

2149
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:07,239
And like what you were talking about living in a

2150
01:51:07,279 --> 01:51:10,479
small town is you live among people where you are

2151
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:13,720
one hundred percent sure that will never happen for let's

2152
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:15,039
just say a multitude of reasons.

2153
01:51:17,159 --> 01:51:19,479
Speaker 2: Right. Well, yeah, it's funny.

2154
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:22,960
Speaker 6: You know, there's like bikes and whatnot outside of our

2155
01:51:23,239 --> 01:51:25,560
you know, there's like one apartment complex in my little

2156
01:51:25,560 --> 01:51:28,560
bi in my little town and there's you know, like kids,

2157
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:31,319
bikes and everything just laying on the outfront. And that's

2158
01:51:31,359 --> 01:51:35,399
because there are no bike thieves out here, right, It's

2159
01:51:35,479 --> 01:51:37,319
just what it is.

2160
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:37,560
Speaker 2: Right.

2161
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:39,680
Speaker 6: So, you know, I'm at church at a place that

2162
01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:41,600
we haven't been going for very long, and my kids

2163
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:43,680
are running around and they're like four and two, right,

2164
01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:46,720
and I don't feel any sort of like, uh, where

2165
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:48,119
my kids go. They're not on my side. I can't

2166
01:51:48,119 --> 01:51:49,479
see them, you know what's going on. It's like, no,

2167
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:51,319
they're just over there playing with like ten other kids.

2168
01:51:51,319 --> 01:51:52,079
Speaker 2: It's fine. Who cares.

2169
01:51:52,760 --> 01:51:55,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, that kind of high trust society. You can't put

2170
01:51:55,279 --> 01:51:57,720
a price tag on it, right, No, not at all.

2171
01:51:58,319 --> 01:52:02,119
Speaker 6: Well, and it's funny because, yeah, in the old days,

2172
01:52:02,119 --> 01:52:05,279
in a high trust society, whinter time was coming, you

2173
01:52:05,840 --> 01:52:10,199
cannot be ostracized from the group, right. That is essentially

2174
01:52:10,239 --> 01:52:12,720
a death sentence to be ostracized from the group. And like,

2175
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:15,119
you know, the fifteen hundreds or something during winter time, Right,

2176
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:17,600
you get kicked out of your village, and it's like, okay, well,

2177
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:20,319
now we just starve and die horribly over the next

2178
01:52:20,359 --> 01:52:23,439
couple of weeks, it's gonna be fantastic. So there's kind

2179
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:27,079
of a not a social contract, but there's a an

2180
01:52:27,239 --> 01:52:30,840
underlying understanding that we all depend on each other and

2181
01:52:31,119 --> 01:52:33,039
what one of us does affects the others, and we

2182
01:52:33,159 --> 01:52:35,640
need to not break each other's trust, right, because otherwise

2183
01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:40,000
we are going to be excommunicated and have serious negative consequences,

2184
01:52:40,039 --> 01:52:43,920
where now there's almost no consequences. Right, So you can

2185
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:46,640
go out, be as degenerate as you want, get kicked

2186
01:52:46,640 --> 01:52:48,399
out of bars, and then just do it the next night,

2187
01:52:48,479 --> 01:52:49,039
the next town.

2188
01:52:49,359 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 2: Right.

2189
01:52:50,399 --> 01:52:52,960
Speaker 7: Well, the way it's a one hundred percent correct. And

2190
01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:56,279
I think one of the things that and this I'll

2191
01:52:56,359 --> 01:52:59,880
trigger our shall we say more kind of like conservative

2192
01:53:00,279 --> 01:53:03,520
or libertarian friends by saying this, right, is that you know,

2193
01:53:03,560 --> 01:53:07,880
when we talk about freedom, that's a term that has

2194
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:11,159
a lot of definitions, right, And the kind of freedom

2195
01:53:11,239 --> 01:53:14,880
that basically runs you know, freedom is you know, my

2196
01:53:15,079 --> 01:53:19,479
ability to fulfill myself in any way whatsoever with no

2197
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:23,159
like moral limitation. Right, like whatever, you know, combination of

2198
01:53:23,239 --> 01:53:27,960
stimuli and stacked genitalia. I choose that's good because I

2199
01:53:28,039 --> 01:53:32,439
consent to it. Well, one, how free does that make you?

2200
01:53:33,079 --> 01:53:36,840
And two that really destroys the ability of people to

2201
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:40,399
have a kind of, you know, a more restrained form

2202
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:43,279
of freedom, right, which is like, okay, your ability to

2203
01:53:43,399 --> 01:53:47,039
do that destroys my freedom to walk around in a

2204
01:53:47,079 --> 01:53:50,399
safe neighborhood, right, or my freedom to you know, let

2205
01:53:50,479 --> 01:53:52,960
my kids out at that right because you know, you

2206
01:53:53,159 --> 01:53:56,439
are doing things that make you feel good but have

2207
01:53:56,520 --> 01:53:59,520
a massive knock on effect on others. And so you know,

2208
01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:01,760
I do get a little bit frustrated with the kind

2209
01:54:01,800 --> 01:54:07,279
of like the language around freedom because in many cases

2210
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:10,479
they're they're saying something in very good faith they mean,

2211
01:54:10,920 --> 01:54:13,479
but oftentimes they don't understand that. Like, if you take

2212
01:54:13,600 --> 01:54:16,840
that tow its logical conclusion, you don't get people like you.

2213
01:54:16,840 --> 01:54:20,239
You get people like Portland, or you get people like

2214
01:54:20,439 --> 01:54:22,439
you know, New York and anyway, this is maybe a

2215
01:54:22,479 --> 01:54:25,399
discussion for another time, but yeah, it's something I It's

2216
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:26,920
something I think about a lot as I just kind

2217
01:54:26,920 --> 01:54:30,159
of chin stroke on the internet, but focused for I.

2218
01:54:30,199 --> 01:54:32,079
Speaker 6: Do want to touch on that right before we get

2219
01:54:32,119 --> 01:54:35,039
off here. So I'm a Christian. So one Peter two

2220
01:54:35,119 --> 01:54:37,920
sixteen is a great one for this. Anytime somebody brings

2221
01:54:38,039 --> 01:54:40,920
up the concept of freedom and it essentially says as

2222
01:54:41,079 --> 01:54:44,319
free yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice.

2223
01:54:45,319 --> 01:54:47,680
And that's what a lot of people say when they

2224
01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:50,319
mean freedom, like the more degenerate side. So I should

2225
01:54:50,359 --> 01:54:52,720
be free to be as evil as I want to be.

2226
01:54:52,760 --> 01:54:56,239
And it's like, well, you're evil, unfortunately affects the rest

2227
01:54:56,319 --> 01:54:58,239
of us. So we're we're gonna put a stop to

2228
01:54:58,319 --> 01:54:59,319
that now if you don't mind.

2229
01:55:00,159 --> 01:55:04,640
Speaker 7: Well, this is something that like, look, I'm I'm not Lutheran,

2230
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:08,239
but I've read some luther right, And when he talks

2231
01:55:08,319 --> 01:55:11,760
about you know, when he talks about crime and punishment

2232
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:15,119
and forgiveness, right, he basically says that there are kind

2233
01:55:15,159 --> 01:55:18,760
of like four levels of forgiveness. You know. The worst

2234
01:55:19,119 --> 01:55:23,159
is basically to you know, to hate someone personally and

2235
01:55:23,319 --> 01:55:23,880
just let it go.

2236
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:24,880
Speaker 2: Right.

2237
01:55:25,199 --> 01:55:27,159
Speaker 7: Then it kind of goes up from there of you know,

2238
01:55:27,399 --> 01:55:30,479
forgiving them personally. But the ultimate form of that is

2239
01:55:30,560 --> 01:55:34,199
to both you know, personally forgive someone and then also

2240
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:36,840
turn them into the authorities and have them face the

2241
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:39,359
full force of the law. And the reason is because

2242
01:55:39,359 --> 01:55:41,840
one like that kind of like sense of hatred and

2243
01:55:41,880 --> 01:55:45,800
revenge is personally poisoning to you. But also because it

2244
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:49,479
is good for both society but also that person to

2245
01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:53,399
be punished. Right, that's the right and ordered nature of things.

2246
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:57,239
And you know this idea that you know, the way

2247
01:55:57,399 --> 01:55:59,840
to be you know, good and kind and nice to

2248
01:56:00,039 --> 01:56:02,319
people is to let them do whatever they want to,

2249
01:56:02,399 --> 01:56:04,800
Let them just smoke crack in the street all day,

2250
01:56:04,920 --> 01:56:07,720
because it would be mean to ask them not not to.

2251
01:56:08,199 --> 01:56:10,960
I mean, it's very clearly produces an awful society. I

2252
01:56:11,000 --> 01:56:12,479
don't feel like this is an argument we need to

2253
01:56:12,640 --> 01:56:13,399
deal with anymore.

2254
01:56:13,439 --> 01:56:14,960
Speaker 6: You don't even have to because it's like, Okay, let

2255
01:56:15,000 --> 01:56:16,600
the guy smoke crack. It's like, yeah, but he has

2256
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:18,319
a wife and kids at home that he's leaving, so

2257
01:56:18,399 --> 01:56:19,640
maybe he shouldn't be able to do that.

2258
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:23,119
Speaker 7: You know, Yes, his his turt.

2259
01:56:23,279 --> 01:56:23,399
Speaker 2: You know.

2260
01:56:23,520 --> 01:56:25,239
Speaker 6: Maybe you're sleeping around with other women. You know, I

2261
01:56:25,279 --> 01:56:27,000
don't I don't know if that's you know, applicable to

2262
01:56:27,039 --> 01:56:28,079
anything going on right now.

2263
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:30,079
Speaker 7: But maybe you're on a breeding fetish.

2264
01:56:30,760 --> 01:56:34,079
Speaker 6: Uh yeah, again, maybe your actions have consequences that lead

2265
01:56:34,159 --> 01:56:36,880
to multiple broken homes and maybe we shouldn't do that.

2266
01:56:37,039 --> 01:56:39,920
Maybe that's going to lead to a half dozen kids

2267
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:42,560
not growing up with a father and then whatever. You know,

2268
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:44,600
we can look at the statistics, right, we can pull

2269
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:47,159
up the statistics and see how fatherless kids do compared

2270
01:56:47,159 --> 01:56:47,920
to their counterparts.

2271
01:56:48,159 --> 01:56:50,399
Speaker 2: It's not great, well.

2272
01:56:50,319 --> 01:56:52,920
Speaker 7: One percent, man, But honestly, dude, thank you so much

2273
01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:55,399
for coming out. This was a much better conversation than

2274
01:56:55,439 --> 01:56:58,119
I thought it would be. Uh again, I know you

2275
01:56:58,199 --> 01:57:00,800
mentioned it before, but where could people more of your stuff?

2276
01:57:01,520 --> 01:57:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? So on YouTube.

2277
01:57:03,079 --> 01:57:06,920
Speaker 6: Focus Trip and gun Dot Deals are the two channels

2278
01:57:07,119 --> 01:57:09,960
of which I upload content too. And then my company,

2279
01:57:10,159 --> 01:57:12,039
which you don't need to check out nothing zims soock

2280
01:57:12,119 --> 01:57:14,880
it's a hypebeast company, but that is Focus Shooting LLC.

2281
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:20,279
Speaker 7: Again, highly recommend his video reviews. He's one hundred percent

2282
01:57:20,359 --> 01:57:23,079
wrong about the LC Inspector, the best optic to ever

2283
01:57:23,159 --> 01:57:25,920
be created. I can mute you so you can't respond

2284
01:57:25,960 --> 01:57:29,680
to that, but nonetheless his YouTube channel is very good.

2285
01:57:29,880 --> 01:57:32,319
Highly recommend it. As far as my stuff, The Jay

2286
01:57:32,359 --> 01:57:35,760
Burden Show is available on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you

2287
01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:37,760
listen to podcasts. If you want to support us, you

2288
01:57:37,800 --> 01:57:40,199
can either do that directly through the links in the description,

2289
01:57:40,720 --> 01:57:43,600
or check out our sponsor, Axios Remote Fitness and Coaching

2290
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:46,880
if you want to also be a well muscled chad

2291
01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:50,359
who can deadlift five hundred pounds Axios Remote Fitness and Coaching.

2292
01:57:50,520 --> 01:57:53,000
Best way to do it again, Focus Trip. I appreciate it,

2293
01:57:53,079 --> 01:57:55,199
and to everyone at home, keep your head up. Well,

2294
01:57:55,239 --> 01:57:58,439
I can't last forever. Good night, Welcome to Jay Burden Show.

2295
01:57:58,479 --> 01:57:58,880
How you doing?

2296
01:57:58,920 --> 01:57:59,960
Speaker 2: Man? Doing very good?

2297
01:58:01,479 --> 01:58:05,079
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. I've had a

2298
01:58:05,159 --> 01:58:08,039
few guys from the gun tube side of thing on

2299
01:58:08,279 --> 01:58:11,920
my podcast and been a fan of your channel for

2300
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:14,479
a while. I think you and I share a similar

2301
01:58:15,239 --> 01:58:18,720
I don't say proclivity, but maybe mental disease. That is

2302
01:58:18,840 --> 01:58:22,840
an affection for Ruger P series pistols, and so I

2303
01:58:22,880 --> 01:58:24,840
think I found whenever you did that video three four

2304
01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:28,000
years ago, and I've been watching ever since. But obviously

2305
01:58:28,079 --> 01:58:30,880
I'm familiar with your work, but my audience might not be.

2306
01:58:31,119 --> 01:58:33,640
So who are you and what do you do? So?

2307
01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:36,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have a YouTube channel all about guns. It's

2308
01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:39,239
just called pop Now. You used to be called hopliphile,

2309
01:58:39,279 --> 01:58:42,319
which is a really esoteric insight joke that everybody assumes

2310
01:58:42,319 --> 01:58:45,760
it's a dog whistle for something, but it's not. It's

2311
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:48,640
also possible to spell, so just look up hop and

2312
01:58:48,680 --> 01:58:50,479
then keep scrolling soil you see something with a gun

2313
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:50,680
in it.

2314
01:58:51,199 --> 01:58:52,199
Speaker 2: But yeah, I like I do.

2315
01:58:53,359 --> 01:58:56,439
Speaker 4: I think I do basically everything. Like I enjoy every

2316
01:58:56,520 --> 01:59:00,640
aspect of firearms and like the gun community. I like

2317
01:59:01,039 --> 01:59:04,319
current done history, so I always like to know what's

2318
01:59:04,399 --> 01:59:06,439
coming out. I like to review new products. I like

2319
01:59:06,479 --> 01:59:08,079
to do high end stuff like night vision, and I

2320
01:59:08,159 --> 01:59:11,199
also love old stuff. I like the history of where

2321
01:59:11,279 --> 01:59:13,399
we came from, so I have like, you know, old

2322
01:59:13,399 --> 01:59:18,159
pistol reviews like the Regardview series and yeah, tactical gear.

2323
01:59:18,520 --> 01:59:20,800
I don't know, I like everything about it. I think

2324
01:59:21,319 --> 01:59:23,880
it's all one you know, it's all one hobby to me.

2325
01:59:23,960 --> 01:59:27,720
I don't really see the distinction between you know, new

2326
01:59:27,800 --> 01:59:31,000
products coming out and old products from twenty thirty years ago,

2327
01:59:31,119 --> 01:59:34,560
because something that's coming out tomorrow is eventually going to

2328
01:59:34,560 --> 01:59:39,239
be twenty years old, and it's like it's.

2329
01:59:38,840 --> 01:59:41,399
Speaker 2: Valuable to know where it all comes from.

2330
01:59:41,479 --> 01:59:44,760
Speaker 4: So yeah, my channel is insanely eclectic, and luckily I

2331
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:47,319
am able to put together an audience of all these

2332
01:59:47,359 --> 01:59:51,239
different groups of people who will enjoy some videos and

2333
01:59:51,319 --> 01:59:52,279
tolerate other videos.

2334
01:59:53,520 --> 01:59:56,039
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's sort of an interesting thing, you see. You

2335
01:59:56,119 --> 01:59:59,520
see somewhat similar dynamic in other sort of like hyper

2336
01:59:59,640 --> 02:00:02,119
technic hobbies that cars are the same way, where you

2337
02:00:02,159 --> 02:00:03,880
have like the guys who are just care all they

2338
02:00:03,880 --> 02:00:06,880
care about is like the new thing with big numbers, right, like, oh,

2339
02:00:06,960 --> 02:00:09,760
the new Mustang has x percent more horsepower than the

2340
02:00:09,800 --> 02:00:12,319
old one. But then also you have the guys who

2341
02:00:12,359 --> 02:00:14,560
are into weird eclectic stuff, and there's every sort of

2342
02:00:14,760 --> 02:00:19,319
micro niche and uh, look like guns are tools, they're practical.

2343
02:00:19,560 --> 02:00:22,920
There's a certain bare minimum level of functionality you need

2344
02:00:24,039 --> 02:00:26,319
to be considered something you can bet your life on.

2345
02:00:27,359 --> 02:00:30,640
But like many people, you sort of reach that floor

2346
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:33,520
relatively quickly. You know you've got the one rifle, the

2347
02:00:33,600 --> 02:00:36,479
one handgun, and then the next question is like, okay,

2348
02:00:36,520 --> 02:00:39,319
what do I do after this? And while certainly you

2349
02:00:39,399 --> 02:00:42,800
see those people who sort of make like endless variations

2350
02:00:42,840 --> 02:00:46,079
on the same couple things, after that point it's kind

2351
02:00:46,119 --> 02:00:47,520
of like, well, what are you into?

2352
02:00:48,159 --> 02:00:48,319
Speaker 2: You know?

2353
02:00:48,600 --> 02:00:53,000
Speaker 7: And obviously late nineties service pistols, I guess they're a

2354
02:00:53,079 --> 02:00:54,479
pretty popular destination.

2355
02:00:55,840 --> 02:00:58,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is, I guess I can understand the perspective

2356
02:00:58,720 --> 02:01:01,039
of somebody who's like, I'm really interested in the newest,

2357
02:01:01,079 --> 02:01:04,159
cutting edge stuff, Like why would they care about, you know,

2358
02:01:04,239 --> 02:01:06,560
a Rigord p series it's discontinued, Like sure, maybe you

2359
02:01:06,640 --> 02:01:08,720
can find one cheap in a pawn shop and that

2360
02:01:08,880 --> 02:01:10,399
might make it a bit of a relevant thing where

2361
02:01:10,439 --> 02:01:12,439
you're like, I'm really hard up for cash and I

2362
02:01:12,520 --> 02:01:15,119
need a good pistol. Then you start looking into sort

2363
02:01:15,119 --> 02:01:16,840
of the you know, the cheap classics you can find

2364
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:18,600
on the pawnshop shelf. But for the most part I

2365
02:01:18,640 --> 02:01:21,800
get it, Like, as somebody be completely uninterested in old

2366
02:01:21,840 --> 02:01:27,560
handguns and old firearms history, that's okay to a certain extent.

2367
02:01:27,760 --> 02:01:30,039
There are people who are so disinterested in the history

2368
02:01:30,079 --> 02:01:34,119
of the industry or firearms technology or whatever that they

2369
02:01:34,199 --> 02:01:36,439
just are lacking context and they'll, you know, they'll be like,

2370
02:01:36,520 --> 02:01:40,920
oh my gosh, one X prism sites. Primary Arms came

2371
02:01:41,000 --> 02:01:42,920
out with this whole series of one X you know,

2372
02:01:43,039 --> 02:01:45,840
essentially non magnified prism optics, which is an uncommon thing

2373
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:48,119
to see, and everybody was like, Wow, this is a

2374
02:01:48,199 --> 02:01:49,479
revolutionary game chaker.

2375
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:51,880
Speaker 2: It's not a new thing. I have one.

2376
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:55,520
Speaker 4: I'm working on a video loophold made that twenty five

2377
02:01:55,640 --> 02:01:58,840
years ago, and it wasn't popular then because it wasn't

2378
02:01:59,439 --> 02:02:01,439
it's not a good idea, you know, it's not really

2379
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:03,880
a good optic for most people. So it's like everything's

2380
02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:06,880
been tried before. If someone is really trying to sell

2381
02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:10,560
you on like brand new technology, be skeptical because it's

2382
02:02:10,640 --> 02:02:14,520
probably old technology that was unpopular for a while. So

2383
02:02:15,720 --> 02:02:18,479
I would suggest that anybody who's really really into guns

2384
02:02:18,479 --> 02:02:20,399
should at least look back a couple of years to

2385
02:02:20,479 --> 02:02:23,399
see how things have actually changed and improved. But if

2386
02:02:23,439 --> 02:02:25,720
you're not interested in the fifty you know, fifty year

2387
02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:30,000
time span, that's understandable. What's completely insane to me is

2388
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:32,279
people who are only interested in the retro stuff, because

2389
02:02:32,279 --> 02:02:33,039
I'm like, it's retro.

2390
02:02:33,079 --> 02:02:34,199
Speaker 2: You know what's retro?

2391
02:02:34,359 --> 02:02:37,640
Speaker 4: It's it's it's the golden age of your childhood. So

2392
02:02:38,319 --> 02:02:40,520
I will admit that my keen interest is in the

2393
02:02:40,600 --> 02:02:42,279
nineties because I was a kid in the nineties and

2394
02:02:42,319 --> 02:02:45,720
I would see all the stuff in media, But obviously

2395
02:02:45,760 --> 02:02:47,520
I didn't get to buy or shoot guns because I.

2396
02:02:47,560 --> 02:02:48,439
Speaker 2: Was a poor child.

2397
02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:53,199
Speaker 4: But anybody who's like really interested in history, you know,

2398
02:02:54,199 --> 02:02:56,079
g Watt is now becoming a retro. So there are

2399
02:02:56,079 --> 02:02:57,880
people who are fixated on the g WAT and they're like,

2400
02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:02,279
I love this historical firearm new ars, gross mlock, that's gross.

2401
02:03:02,800 --> 02:03:05,920
But it's like, well, quadrail, there was I'm sure at

2402
02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:08,199
a time at which people were like, ew, quadrail gross,

2403
02:03:08,319 --> 02:03:09,479
Like what why do you need that?

2404
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:12,840
Speaker 2: What's wrong with the plastic? Yeah, my climow works great, exactly.

2405
02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:16,399
Speaker 4: So if you like the history of firearms, I think

2406
02:03:16,399 --> 02:03:18,199
you should be into the whole history of firearms.

2407
02:03:18,239 --> 02:03:22,399
Speaker 7: That's my yeah, And I think that to your point

2408
02:03:22,479 --> 02:03:26,239
about the historical context. One of the things that I

2409
02:03:26,359 --> 02:03:31,359
appreciate about your work, and this is actually the thing

2410
02:03:31,439 --> 02:03:36,079
that drove me out of because look, they're sort of

2411
02:03:36,239 --> 02:03:40,560
like the dark trifecta of male interests the cars, guns,

2412
02:03:40,640 --> 02:03:43,479
and watches, and if you have all three you just

2413
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:45,600
have no money. Your life is ruined. So you have

2414
02:03:45,640 --> 02:03:48,439
to kind of pick like one to two legs that

2415
02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:51,319
you can you can sort of spend time on. And

2416
02:03:51,680 --> 02:03:54,399
you know, someone who grew up around guns, it was

2417
02:03:54,439 --> 02:03:56,680
something that was in my life but not a primary interest.

2418
02:03:57,119 --> 02:03:59,760
And the thing that really drove me away from cars

2419
02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:04,039
is hobby was honestly, social media completely ruined it because

2420
02:04:04,079 --> 02:04:08,079
one there's a finite number of cars past a certain era, right,

2421
02:04:08,119 --> 02:04:10,239
they don't make any more two thousand and six Niece

2422
02:04:10,319 --> 02:04:13,600
on three fifty's ease. And once the whole thing became

2423
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:16,119
sort of a hype game, right, like what can you

2424
02:04:16,279 --> 02:04:20,000
do to attract attention, it kind of ruined the fun

2425
02:04:20,039 --> 02:04:23,680
of it. Whereas the thing that I admire about your

2426
02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:26,640
work and the thing that sort of attracted to attracted

2427
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:29,840
me to it relatively early is obviously there's very much

2428
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:33,159
a gun hype culture. I'm not on Instagram, haven't been

2429
02:04:33,199 --> 02:04:37,199
in years, but even five years ago there was the

2430
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:43,000
should we say, very esthetics focused version of gun culture,

2431
02:04:43,079 --> 02:04:46,840
where honestly, it has no more relevance to the actual

2432
02:04:46,920 --> 02:04:49,560
mechanics of the product itself. It's it's sort of a prop,

2433
02:04:50,159 --> 02:04:52,960
right in the same way that you know, I don't

2434
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:55,680
know anything about fashion, but streetwear was in you know,

2435
02:04:55,760 --> 02:04:58,560
twenty eighteen to twenty twenty, right, it was a series

2436
02:04:58,640 --> 02:05:02,640
of branded item you could photo, your photograph yourself next

2437
02:05:02,720 --> 02:05:07,279
to sort of increase your like online. I guess like

2438
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:09,479
clout would be the term the kids use.

2439
02:05:10,119 --> 02:05:11,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that certainly makes sense.

2440
02:05:11,920 --> 02:05:15,800
Speaker 4: There is an aspect of what we'd call it, like

2441
02:05:16,079 --> 02:05:19,439
conspicuous consumption or something. I remember something that I learned

2442
02:05:19,479 --> 02:05:21,520
when I was in college because I have a degree

2443
02:05:21,600 --> 02:05:25,279
in Japanese nonsense. But one of the things that I

2444
02:05:25,279 --> 02:05:29,119
always thought was really interesting was that during period of

2445
02:05:29,239 --> 02:05:31,279
time in Japan bling was the Ado period, so like

2446
02:05:31,359 --> 02:05:33,239
the eighteen hundreds ish I'll probably get this all wrong

2447
02:05:33,279 --> 02:05:36,359
because that's more than ten years ago, but there were

2448
02:05:36,399 --> 02:05:38,880
austerity measures in place, and so it's like nobody can

2449
02:05:38,960 --> 02:05:42,279
be seen to be flaunting wealth, but certain things were

2450
02:05:42,439 --> 02:05:45,399
not regulated, and so you would have like a little

2451
02:05:45,880 --> 02:05:49,279
cigar or like a tobacco pouch and you could have

2452
02:05:49,399 --> 02:05:51,680
a little bead on there, and the bad would be

2453
02:05:51,760 --> 02:05:55,359
of just exquisite craftsmanship, and it would signal to other

2454
02:05:55,439 --> 02:05:57,399
people that, like, you have a lot of money. So

2455
02:05:57,520 --> 02:06:01,399
it's like, even in an environment where austerity are enforced strictly,

2456
02:06:01,840 --> 02:06:04,159
people still find a way to show to flash some

2457
02:06:04,239 --> 02:06:06,840
cash in public, right, and social media is going to

2458
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:08,479
be that same way. So when you look at like

2459
02:06:08,560 --> 02:06:12,239
an AR fifteen, there's really cheap entry level AR fifteens,

2460
02:06:12,239 --> 02:06:14,199
which could just be trash blasters or you know, a

2461
02:06:14,279 --> 02:06:16,880
defensive firearm for somebody without a lot of money. Then

2462
02:06:16,920 --> 02:06:19,399
there's the mid range of stuff, which is like high end,

2463
02:06:19,960 --> 02:06:22,760
serious duty grade firearms, but you can spend as much

2464
02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:24,840
money as you want, where you get into stuff that

2465
02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:27,760
I would consider like a luxury firearm, sort of like

2466
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:30,159
a luxury watch. Like you can spend four thousand dollars

2467
02:06:30,239 --> 02:06:34,920
on an Novesci. Is a Nobeski rifle more than twice

2468
02:06:34,960 --> 02:06:37,880
as good as a BCM. No, it's probably a little

2469
02:06:37,920 --> 02:06:40,600
worse than a BCM, but it costs way more. And

2470
02:06:40,680 --> 02:06:43,119
people see that logo and they see that paint job,

2471
02:06:43,199 --> 02:06:45,640
and they're like, damn, that guy has money. And I

2472
02:06:45,920 --> 02:06:47,760
sometimes I will admit, like when I put on the

2473
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:49,920
body armor in the helmet and the night vision, I'm like, dude,

2474
02:06:49,960 --> 02:06:53,359
I'm wearing twenty grand right now, Holy crap, this is awesome.

2475
02:06:54,880 --> 02:06:56,199
Speaker 2: I try not to do that too much.

2476
02:06:56,720 --> 02:06:58,680
Speaker 7: L can owner so I to go, h.

2477
02:07:00,279 --> 02:07:02,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and people then there's other people that are a

2478
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:05,479
little more sensible who will be like, why would I

2479
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:08,000
ever pay six hundred dollars for a scope? My whole

2480
02:07:08,079 --> 02:07:12,039
rifle only costs eight hundred dollars. You're like, yeah, I

2481
02:07:12,119 --> 02:07:14,960
can see that perspective, but I can also I can

2482
02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:17,880
also remember some like old advice you would get from hunters,

2483
02:07:17,960 --> 02:07:19,600
like if you go on Snipers High or something these

2484
02:07:19,600 --> 02:07:21,720
old forums, they'd be like, your scope needs to cost

2485
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:23,800
at least as much as your right If you're going

2486
02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:25,479
to get a good piece of glass, it's got to

2487
02:07:25,520 --> 02:07:28,840
cost at least as much as the gun. So these

2488
02:07:28,920 --> 02:07:31,119
attitudes change over time, and they also changed, you know,

2489
02:07:31,239 --> 02:07:33,520
depending on where you are in the community, and some

2490
02:07:33,640 --> 02:07:35,880
people perceive value in different ways. So one of my

2491
02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:39,119
favorite online memes is somebody with a Daniel defense rifle.

2492
02:07:39,119 --> 02:07:42,000
It's a two thousand dollars rifle, very good duty grade,

2493
02:07:42,039 --> 02:07:45,640
high end AR, and they care a lot about their ar.

2494
02:07:45,760 --> 02:07:48,520
They really want it to be good, high quality. They

2495
02:07:48,600 --> 02:07:50,600
probably don't mind showing off the cost of it a

2496
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:53,239
little bit as well. But then when it comes to optics,

2497
02:07:53,319 --> 02:07:55,159
they just don't know. They don't know what the difference

2498
02:07:55,199 --> 02:07:57,640
is between different scope companies or different types of scope,

2499
02:07:57,640 --> 02:07:59,279
and so they just slap a two hundred dollars four

2500
02:07:59,359 --> 02:08:01,960
tech strike e on top because to them, the optic

2501
02:08:02,119 --> 02:08:04,880
is just it doesn't interest them. They've never been told

2502
02:08:04,920 --> 02:08:07,199
about the you know, the hype of it. If they

2503
02:08:07,239 --> 02:08:09,399
were a little more well educated, they might as well

2504
02:08:09,479 --> 02:08:13,000
just buy that Elcan money probably not really a thing

2505
02:08:13,079 --> 02:08:15,720
for them if they're buying Daniel Defense rifles just casually.

2506
02:08:16,680 --> 02:08:18,840
They just don't realize that there is a whole world

2507
02:08:18,920 --> 02:08:21,399
out there of Elcan stops and if they knew, they

2508
02:08:21,439 --> 02:08:23,039
would not be put in a strike you go on

2509
02:08:23,119 --> 02:08:24,560
top of their precious Daniel Defense.

2510
02:08:25,439 --> 02:08:27,680
Speaker 7: Well, I feel like the area you see this the

2511
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:33,039
most in it is twenty eleven's for the non autistically

2512
02:08:33,119 --> 02:08:38,199
inclined double stack. Nineteen eleven's widely variable price. And when

2513
02:08:38,199 --> 02:08:42,319
I'm talking widely variable, I mean five hundred to two,

2514
02:08:43,000 --> 02:08:45,439
as you said earlier, as many thousands as you want

2515
02:08:45,479 --> 02:08:50,199
to give someone, and obviously you have the extreme diminishing

2516
02:08:50,279 --> 02:08:52,119
returns right where it's like, okay, this is a cool

2517
02:08:52,159 --> 02:08:54,399
thing to have. You know, I like nice handguns as

2518
02:08:54,439 --> 02:08:57,880
much as the next guy. But at a certain point

2519
02:08:58,199 --> 02:09:00,760
you reflex it, right like okay, hey, yeah, you got

2520
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:03,920
the one that you had done exactly how you wanted it,

2521
02:09:04,039 --> 02:09:06,319
and it's very clearly like this, you know, kind of

2522
02:09:06,359 --> 02:09:10,039
like transformer abomination of like sharp curves and different finishes,

2523
02:09:10,079 --> 02:09:12,720
and it's like, okay, there's nothing wrong with it, but

2524
02:09:13,479 --> 02:09:15,880
let's not delude ourselves. Why we're here. You know, you

2525
02:09:16,000 --> 02:09:19,199
want to see you want to be seen to be wealthy.

2526
02:09:19,840 --> 02:09:22,479
And to your point about the the Edo period and

2527
02:09:22,880 --> 02:09:25,960
tobacco boxes, which I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're

2528
02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:28,439
completely right and all the details there and we will

2529
02:09:28,479 --> 02:09:31,640
be corrected later. But this is something you even read

2530
02:09:31,680 --> 02:09:34,039
about with the Greeks, right, there were again all of

2531
02:09:34,119 --> 02:09:36,640
these sort of sumptuary laws, as I think that the

2532
02:09:36,760 --> 02:09:39,199
term in British common law right where it's like, okay,

2533
02:09:39,279 --> 02:09:41,119
we need to put some sort of check on this,

2534
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:43,960
because it is if we don't want an immense amount

2535
02:09:44,000 --> 02:09:50,880
of resources going to flexing. And again, life finds a way, right,

2536
02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:54,159
there will be some way to sort of artificially or

2537
02:09:54,479 --> 02:10:00,000
non artificially organically reinforce that hierarchy. And it's funny to say,

2538
02:10:00,039 --> 02:10:03,119
see it over and over and over again, because if

2539
02:10:03,119 --> 02:10:06,560
you've been interested in any hobby whatsoever where there is

2540
02:10:06,720 --> 02:10:11,720
gear involved, there's immediately gear snobbery. And it's kind of

2541
02:10:11,760 --> 02:10:16,520
interesting because one of the things that I appreciate in

2542
02:10:16,600 --> 02:10:19,600
the analysis for you from you and Brock is this

2543
02:10:19,760 --> 02:10:27,640
idea that look, not necessarily obviously, there are things that

2544
02:10:27,720 --> 02:10:30,560
are too cheap to be usable, things that are too

2545
02:10:30,640 --> 02:10:33,600
expensive to be usable, But what matters more, right is

2546
02:10:33,600 --> 02:10:36,720
effectively where do you find yourself on that trade off curve?

2547
02:10:37,239 --> 02:10:37,359
Speaker 6: Right?

2548
02:10:37,439 --> 02:10:39,840
Speaker 7: Like, you can buy as much capability as you want,

2549
02:10:40,399 --> 02:10:42,239
assuming you have the bank account to balance it up.

2550
02:10:43,399 --> 02:10:47,359
The question is one, can you use it? Do you

2551
02:10:47,560 --> 02:10:51,760
need it? And is there a better option? And look

2552
02:10:51,880 --> 02:10:54,800
like I got an equally useless finance degree, right, I

2553
02:10:54,920 --> 02:10:58,560
learned absolutely nothing because it was COVID and nobody learned

2554
02:10:58,600 --> 02:11:03,560
anything but the idea of effectively there is no solution.

2555
02:11:03,880 --> 02:11:06,680
You're simply making trade off some kind of a multi

2556
02:11:06,760 --> 02:11:09,479
variable equation. It's something I see in guns all the time.

2557
02:11:10,199 --> 02:11:14,199
Like I'm sure you're aware of the current obsession with

2558
02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:18,199
like three to fifteen scopes. It's a little bit pass

2559
02:11:18,239 --> 02:11:21,399
a now, but it's this idea of well, a one

2560
02:11:21,479 --> 02:11:24,279
to sex LPBO is good, and if that must be good,

2561
02:11:24,680 --> 02:11:28,560
surely a one to eight or one to ten obviously

2562
02:11:28,840 --> 02:11:33,880
two to four x better. Therefore, and obviously a one

2563
02:11:34,119 --> 02:11:36,560
x is basically a two x, which is basically a

2564
02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:39,920
three X. And you see the scope creep literally, and

2565
02:11:40,680 --> 02:11:42,840
all of a sudden we've reinvented the sort of like

2566
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:45,960
forum joke rifles of the twenty tens, where it's a

2567
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:49,159
quad rail with every slot filled up with some random garbage.

2568
02:11:49,680 --> 02:11:52,520
And I think that that's another sort of interesting kind

2569
02:11:52,520 --> 02:11:53,920
of human foible you see in this.

2570
02:11:55,640 --> 02:11:59,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is a lot of Yeah scope group's a

2571
02:11:59,399 --> 02:12:01,680
good term four, But there's also just the cyclical nature

2572
02:12:01,720 --> 02:12:05,039
of trends, you know. That's like you can see this happening.

2573
02:12:05,319 --> 02:12:07,760
The discussion will shift every couple of weeks on gun

2574
02:12:07,840 --> 02:12:10,560
Twitter or gun Instagram or whatever community that you happen

2575
02:12:10,600 --> 02:12:16,359
to be on. But somebody will rediscover a coogs. They'll

2576
02:12:16,399 --> 02:12:17,960
be like, you know what, actually, the a COG is

2577
02:12:18,039 --> 02:12:19,640
still the best optic you know, And you're like, no,

2578
02:12:19,720 --> 02:12:22,880
well that okay, maybe it is, Maybe it isn't. The

2579
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:25,800
fact of the matter is it's it's been a beloved

2580
02:12:25,840 --> 02:12:28,359
optic since it was introduced in nineteen eighty seven. It's

2581
02:12:28,479 --> 02:12:30,640
it's incredible, it's been around for a very, very long time.

2582
02:12:30,720 --> 02:12:32,680
How many times have we gone through this cycle, you know,

2583
02:12:32,880 --> 02:12:35,520
kind of like mass effect for You're like, you're young,

2584
02:12:35,680 --> 02:12:37,840
You've only been doing this for a handful of years.

2585
02:12:37,840 --> 02:12:39,439
I've been doing this for ten years, or people been

2586
02:12:39,479 --> 02:12:42,399
doing this for forty years, and they're probably well beyond

2587
02:12:42,439 --> 02:12:44,399
the point of rolling their eyes that the well, actually

2588
02:12:44,439 --> 02:12:46,960
A cogs are still good argument because they've probably have

2589
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:49,560
seen it every five years since nineteen eighty seven, and

2590
02:12:49,600 --> 02:12:53,560
they're like ridiculous. And those generally come from people who

2591
02:12:53,640 --> 02:12:56,479
are either they've had the A cog all along and

2592
02:12:56,560 --> 02:12:58,760
they're sick of seeing all these trends pass them by,

2593
02:12:58,880 --> 02:13:00,560
and they're like, hey, wait a second, you guys, my

2594
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:02,640
optic is still good. And they're correct, their optic is

2595
02:13:02,680 --> 02:13:05,760
still good, but no one ever has the self restraint

2596
02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:08,560
to say, you know, this is still an option. Instead,

2597
02:13:08,560 --> 02:13:09,880
they got to be like, no, this is still the

2598
02:13:09,960 --> 02:13:13,399
only way to do it conveniently. The way I'm doing

2599
02:13:13,479 --> 02:13:15,000
it is still the only way to do it, and

2600
02:13:15,039 --> 02:13:17,239
you guys are all the same. But yeah, you do

2601
02:13:17,359 --> 02:13:22,920
get that constant espialation of like, well one to six lpdo.

2602
02:13:23,039 --> 02:13:24,279
But then I'm still going to put a red dot

2603
02:13:24,319 --> 02:13:25,960
on top because I want to use I want to

2604
02:13:26,039 --> 02:13:29,359
use it for you know, close range shooting and potentially

2605
02:13:29,399 --> 02:13:31,199
pacidating with night vision. Well, as long as I got

2606
02:13:31,239 --> 02:13:32,439
that red doll in there, I don't need the one

2607
02:13:32,560 --> 02:13:34,359
X on the LPVO anymore. Someone as will go to

2608
02:13:34,399 --> 02:13:37,840
a two to ten, Well, yeah, two is basically three

2609
02:13:37,920 --> 02:13:39,640
and ten is basically fifteen, So let's go ahead and

2610
02:13:39,720 --> 02:13:42,800
just go to a three to fifteen. Well, four to sixteen,

2611
02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:44,399
that's a little bit more, and those scopes have some

2612
02:13:44,479 --> 02:13:48,720
other advantages, So yeah, it can just keep theory crafting

2613
02:13:48,760 --> 02:13:51,000
your way into almost any setup that you want.

2614
02:13:51,920 --> 02:13:54,880
Speaker 7: Well, And I think another relevant factor is sort of

2615
02:13:54,960 --> 02:13:59,479
the impact of the sort of like ever changing face

2616
02:13:59,520 --> 02:14:02,800
of social media, which is, in order to make content,

2617
02:14:03,359 --> 02:14:06,199
you need to constantly have new things to talk about.

2618
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:10,720
And the problem is, you know, you mentioned optimization, and

2619
02:14:10,880 --> 02:14:14,239
obviously you can always fine tune those variables, but if

2620
02:14:14,279 --> 02:14:17,039
you're a normal person, right, you have like one or

2621
02:14:17,079 --> 02:14:18,640
two systems to optimize.

2622
02:14:18,920 --> 02:14:19,039
Speaker 4: Right.

2623
02:14:19,079 --> 02:14:21,119
Speaker 7: I realize system is a weighted word if we're talking

2624
02:14:21,159 --> 02:14:25,359
about guns, but let's let's go with it. How long

2625
02:14:25,439 --> 02:14:28,119
can you really draw that process out for I mean,

2626
02:14:28,199 --> 02:14:31,119
like someone like you and I years, you know, just

2627
02:14:31,159 --> 02:14:33,920
by constantly changing things. But if your genuine goal was

2628
02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:36,479
just to figure out, like what is the best one

2629
02:14:36,560 --> 02:14:40,920
time financial purchase for me, there's only so much discussion.

2630
02:14:41,399 --> 02:14:43,920
But in a world where like we need more Reddit posts,

2631
02:14:44,000 --> 02:14:46,000
we need more videos, And I say this is someone

2632
02:14:46,039 --> 02:14:49,119
who himself releases a lot of content right, So I

2633
02:14:49,199 --> 02:14:52,119
recognize the sort of hypocrisy in it, but it seems

2634
02:14:52,159 --> 02:14:54,840
as if that mixed with that desire to sort of

2635
02:14:54,960 --> 02:14:59,119
signal status, creates this kind of like ever tightening spiral

2636
02:14:59,359 --> 02:15:03,000
of need new things to be what everyone is talking about.

2637
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:03,960
And can you see what I'm getting at.

2638
02:15:04,680 --> 02:15:07,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's also a disconnect that I see between guys

2639
02:15:07,800 --> 02:15:13,159
who treating firearms as a part of their other hobby

2640
02:15:13,239 --> 02:15:14,640
or pursuit. There's a lot of like the guys who

2641
02:15:14,680 --> 02:15:18,720
are into the miniman thing, you know, or you're just

2642
02:15:19,039 --> 02:15:21,119
like really focused on defensive shooting, and they're like, why

2643
02:15:21,119 --> 02:15:22,439
do you need all this stuff? You know, like nobody

2644
02:15:22,479 --> 02:15:26,239
needs anything. Man, Like, you need a block forty three

2645
02:15:26,520 --> 02:15:29,520
probably at a maximum, and you'll be good to go

2646
02:15:29,840 --> 02:15:32,119
because it's going to cover all your use cases, which

2647
02:15:32,199 --> 02:15:35,600
is having a defensive firearm every day in your regular life.

2648
02:15:36,720 --> 02:15:39,600
But if you're really interested in escalating that to you know,

2649
02:15:39,680 --> 02:15:41,319
a different level of preparedness, if you're one of these

2650
02:15:41,359 --> 02:15:43,600
minutman guys, then you do want to have you know,

2651
02:15:43,640 --> 02:15:47,279
a nice gestureak setup or plate carrier helmet, a nice

2652
02:15:47,359 --> 02:15:50,279
rifle well set up. You don't need more than two

2653
02:15:50,560 --> 02:15:54,560
for three firearms maximum. So for you, it would be

2654
02:15:54,840 --> 02:15:59,319
totally acceptable to say, why do I need to keep

2655
02:15:59,399 --> 02:16:01,840
chasing this? And the answer is you don't. Like you

2656
02:16:01,960 --> 02:16:04,720
can make one workable setup and then stop worrying about it,

2657
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:08,640
because concern over optimization is a bit of a fool's

2658
02:16:08,680 --> 02:16:12,960
errand everything has trade offs, and the only issue is

2659
02:16:12,960 --> 02:16:15,760
if you're if you are not strong willed enough to

2660
02:16:15,880 --> 02:16:18,920
disregard the trade offs. You know, you see someone's like, well,

2661
02:16:18,920 --> 02:16:21,760
I have more magnification than you. You're dang, my scope sucks.

2662
02:16:22,239 --> 02:16:22,880
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't.

2663
02:16:23,239 --> 02:16:25,359
Speaker 4: They have more magnification than you. Trust me, there's a

2664
02:16:25,399 --> 02:16:26,960
trade off. They made a trade off to get that.

2665
02:16:27,439 --> 02:16:29,560
You're still fine with what you got. So if you

2666
02:16:29,720 --> 02:16:33,120
truly aren't actually that into firearms, then go ahead and

2667
02:16:33,200 --> 02:16:35,440
get your one gun, set it up the way that

2668
02:16:35,559 --> 02:16:37,799
it works for you, and then you know, use it

2669
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:42,120
and become proficient in it. But most of the people

2670
02:16:42,120 --> 02:16:44,200
who are doing this and we're watching these videos and

2671
02:16:44,239 --> 02:16:47,280
making these posts are more into firearms in that they

2672
02:16:47,399 --> 02:16:49,319
enjoyed a hobby. Same with car guys. It's like, if

2673
02:16:49,360 --> 02:16:54,079
you really don't care about cars, you're not like watching

2674
02:16:54,120 --> 02:16:57,639
every episode of regular car reviews because you just have

2675
02:16:57,719 --> 02:16:59,920
your commuter vehicle, and it's like, that's the only.

2676
02:16:59,799 --> 02:17:00,280
Speaker 2: Car you need.

2677
02:17:00,399 --> 02:17:03,920
Speaker 4: Dean versa is exactly what you will need exactly. If

2678
02:17:04,000 --> 02:17:07,920
you're watching regular car reviews, then you're into cars more generally,

2679
02:17:07,959 --> 02:17:10,040
and that doesn't mean that every single car review video

2680
02:17:10,120 --> 02:17:12,120
you see is a commandment for you to go purchase

2681
02:17:12,200 --> 02:17:15,600
that car. Sameting with guns, you know, if you're interested

2682
02:17:15,680 --> 02:17:19,440
in guns, I watch a ton of gun YouTube. I

2683
02:17:19,520 --> 02:17:22,000
don't immediately buy every single product. I don't immediately tear

2684
02:17:22,040 --> 02:17:23,920
my stuff apart every time I see any video. I

2685
02:17:24,120 --> 02:17:26,120
like to just know what's out there and have that

2686
02:17:26,239 --> 02:17:27,920
knowledge in the back of my mind because at some

2687
02:17:28,000 --> 02:17:29,639
point I will be buying a new scope to try it,

2688
02:17:30,399 --> 02:17:32,280
and there are a lot of people doing that, and

2689
02:17:32,399 --> 02:17:38,719
so I think railing against the received consumers nature. There

2690
02:17:38,799 --> 02:17:41,840
is absolutely a consumer's kind of aspect to it, but

2691
02:17:43,239 --> 02:17:45,239
for the most part, it's like this is just information

2692
02:17:45,360 --> 02:17:48,840
that you can take or leave. You don't have to

2693
02:17:48,959 --> 02:17:51,600
be buying everything that you see on YouTube. You don't

2694
02:17:51,639 --> 02:17:53,159
have to be trying to keep up with guys who

2695
02:17:53,200 --> 02:17:55,000
do this for a living. You know, for everything is

2696
02:17:55,040 --> 02:17:59,120
a tax right off. If you're just into guns, you

2697
02:17:59,159 --> 02:18:01,280
can just watch the video, So you enjoyed them, you

2698
02:18:01,360 --> 02:18:02,520
know that that is possible?

2699
02:18:03,520 --> 02:18:05,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think that that Yeah, I mean it

2700
02:18:05,079 --> 02:18:07,879
reminds me very much of the and I'll forget the

2701
02:18:07,959 --> 02:18:09,840
number on this was it? But is it the nothing

2702
02:18:09,920 --> 02:18:13,000
fancy second type of cool right where it's like, look

2703
02:18:13,120 --> 02:18:17,079
like you can just like things. That's entirely you were

2704
02:18:17,120 --> 02:18:20,360
allowed to say. I think it's just neat, you know.

2705
02:18:20,440 --> 02:18:22,360
And as the owner of, should we say, a rather

2706
02:18:22,520 --> 02:18:27,600
unfortunate amount of inherited converted black powder Old West guns, right,

2707
02:18:27,680 --> 02:18:31,879
it's like, I'm under no allusion to whatsoever that a

2708
02:18:32,319 --> 02:18:36,120
Italian made dubiously converted Walker cult revolver. Is it all

2709
02:18:36,239 --> 02:18:40,200
a practical thing to own? But it's kind of cool, right,

2710
02:18:40,239 --> 02:18:43,040
It's just it's a neat thing to have. And I

2711
02:18:43,120 --> 02:18:45,520
think that one of the sort of interesting things about

2712
02:18:45,920 --> 02:18:50,680
the gunsphere as a consumer but still an outsider, right,

2713
02:18:50,799 --> 02:18:53,200
Like I don't know a lot of these people. But

2714
02:18:53,479 --> 02:18:56,399
is the the sort of blurred line between do I

2715
02:18:56,639 --> 02:18:59,159
like this or am is this something I am buying?

2716
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:04,399
And maybe and will debate how how sincere this argument is,

2717
02:19:04,440 --> 02:19:07,520
but to prepare for something, right, because those are that's

2718
02:19:07,520 --> 02:19:09,600
sort of a line that's blurred, right, because obviously there

2719
02:19:09,639 --> 02:19:12,479
are things that are incredibly practical, right, Like you don't

2720
02:19:12,600 --> 02:19:16,920
really own, you know, level four plates because you know

2721
02:19:17,079 --> 02:19:19,559
you're collecting them. I mean, I'm sure that guy exists.

2722
02:19:19,879 --> 02:19:21,399
I don't know if I really want to meet them,

2723
02:19:21,479 --> 02:19:23,079
but I'm sure that there's one of them out there.

2724
02:19:24,040 --> 02:19:28,799
It's a certain degree at risk calculation, and uh, with

2725
02:19:28,959 --> 02:19:31,000
some other things, I think it gets a little bit blurry.

2726
02:19:31,200 --> 02:19:33,959
And maybe that's just how do I justify this extremely

2727
02:19:34,239 --> 02:19:38,000
absurdly expensive purchase, which you know, fair enough, but it

2728
02:19:38,120 --> 02:19:40,559
is an interesting thing to uh, to sort of, I

2729
02:19:40,600 --> 02:19:43,959
guess observe. So one of the other things I wanted

2730
02:19:44,000 --> 02:19:49,319
to talk with you about is the evolution of gun culture. Now,

2731
02:19:49,360 --> 02:19:52,600
a certain amount of this is generational, right, boomer bashing

2732
02:19:52,719 --> 02:19:55,280
is sort of the internet's favorite favorite pastime one that

2733
02:19:55,360 --> 02:19:58,319
I want to engage in. But as someone who sort

2734
02:19:58,319 --> 02:20:02,360
of came into gun culture early in the sort of

2735
02:20:02,399 --> 02:20:05,360
twenty and tens, I joked earlier like in the in

2736
02:20:05,479 --> 02:20:09,559
the transition from the quad rail to kimod Era. You know,

2737
02:20:09,680 --> 02:20:12,799
it's anyone who was there will know exactly what I'm

2738
02:20:12,840 --> 02:20:16,520
talking about, But it was fundamentally a very different group

2739
02:20:16,559 --> 02:20:18,920
of people now part of it. It was forum based.

2740
02:20:19,200 --> 02:20:22,559
That's different than social media, both good and ill. It

2741
02:20:22,639 --> 02:20:26,200
was much more based in print journalism. But I'm curious, right,

2742
02:20:26,280 --> 02:20:30,280
when did you come into gun culture and what changes

2743
02:20:30,440 --> 02:20:32,399
you've seen since you sort of started here.

2744
02:20:33,200 --> 02:20:35,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I started getting I started really focusing on

2745
02:20:35,799 --> 02:20:39,120
and paying attention to guns and gun culture probably in

2746
02:20:39,159 --> 02:20:41,120
two thousand and eight or two thousand and nine, I

2747
02:20:41,200 --> 02:20:44,719
was in college. But I didn't really start actually getting

2748
02:20:44,760 --> 02:20:48,360
into shooting until I graduated, got my first real job,

2749
02:20:48,840 --> 02:20:50,200
and all of a sudden I had money. It's like,

2750
02:20:50,280 --> 02:20:53,239
oh man, I can actually finally afford to buy a firearm.

2751
02:20:54,280 --> 02:20:57,520
So yeah, not until maybe like twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen

2752
02:20:57,639 --> 02:20:59,840
is when I actually started shooting and really getting into

2753
02:21:02,079 --> 02:21:05,760
you know, the more the defensive shooting aspect of it.

2754
02:21:05,799 --> 02:21:07,879
You know, my got my first handgun, got my concealed

2755
02:21:07,920 --> 02:21:10,319
carry license, started practicing shooting handgun drills a lot. I

2756
02:21:10,440 --> 02:21:13,079
used to be almost exclusively a handgun guy, and I

2757
02:21:13,159 --> 02:21:17,200
didn't really care. I didn't really think about rifles as

2758
02:21:17,280 --> 02:21:19,360
anything other than kind.

2759
02:21:19,280 --> 02:21:20,079
Speaker 2: Of a curiosity.

2760
02:21:20,680 --> 02:21:23,719
Speaker 4: So like all my all my first ar bills were

2761
02:21:24,120 --> 02:21:26,799
embarrassing Reddit teer meme cringe where I was like, I'm

2762
02:21:26,799 --> 02:21:30,079
gonna build something so cursed it'll ruin somebody's day. Uh,

2763
02:21:30,239 --> 02:21:32,840
And that's that still happens out there, but that's not

2764
02:21:32,879 --> 02:21:34,200
as common as it used to be. A lot more

2765
02:21:34,200 --> 02:21:36,559
common people just like I'm gonna make something so stupid

2766
02:21:36,559 --> 02:21:39,040
it'll trigger people. You're like, well, you're really only playing yourself,

2767
02:21:40,040 --> 02:21:42,719
as Paul Cogan says, you're working yourself into a shoe

2768
02:21:42,840 --> 02:21:43,440
while you're doing that.

2769
02:21:44,719 --> 02:21:46,719
Speaker 7: Jokes on them. I spent one hundred ye, yeah.

2770
02:21:46,520 --> 02:21:48,799
Speaker 2: Exactly, jumb Yeah.

2771
02:21:48,799 --> 02:21:52,079
Speaker 4: I always call it it's a it's farming for performative outrage.

2772
02:21:52,120 --> 02:21:53,600
You know, you want to post something on Reddit and

2773
02:21:53,600 --> 02:21:55,280
then someone's gonna be like, oh my gosh, that's bruin

2774
02:21:55,360 --> 02:21:55,639
my day.

2775
02:21:55,799 --> 02:21:55,959
Speaker 2: Oh.

2776
02:21:56,639 --> 02:21:59,000
Speaker 4: They don't mean that. It didn't affect their day at all.

2777
02:21:59,120 --> 02:22:01,799
They probably chuckled slightly and hit the upvote, so them

2778
02:22:01,920 --> 02:22:03,639
saying ruined their day, and you're like, h I ruined

2779
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:06,639
that guy's day. Now you're all just playing a weird

2780
02:22:06,680 --> 02:22:11,360
little kabooki theater thing. But yeah, So I started initially

2781
02:22:11,440 --> 02:22:14,000
just getting into handguns, and since I kind of like

2782
02:22:14,360 --> 02:22:18,040
historical stuff and the trout in the nineties, got into

2783
02:22:18,360 --> 02:22:22,719
old pistol or older pistons. But yeah, I just kept

2784
02:22:22,760 --> 02:22:25,120
my interests kept escalating. I started getting into, you know,

2785
02:22:25,200 --> 02:22:29,639
the gear side of it, the rifles as well, and

2786
02:22:29,719 --> 02:22:31,639
then yeah, eventually, I think, if you spend enough money

2787
02:22:31,639 --> 02:22:34,000
in enough time in the industry, eventually will become involved

2788
02:22:34,040 --> 02:22:36,239
in the industry. So that's when I got I got

2789
02:22:36,280 --> 02:22:39,760
picked up by TFBTV in twenty nineteen, I want to say,

2790
02:22:40,000 --> 02:22:42,000
started going to shows and then meeting people, and at

2791
02:22:42,000 --> 02:22:44,239
that point it's it's too late. You're just way way

2792
02:22:44,399 --> 02:22:46,440
too deep, way past the event horizon of.

2793
02:22:48,399 --> 02:22:52,360
Speaker 2: Industry. Like culture, I would say, yeah, culture wise.

2794
02:22:52,120 --> 02:22:54,079
Speaker 4: I was involved from like two thousand and eight to

2795
02:22:54,360 --> 02:22:58,200
twenty nineteen, very much an outsider, interested in the industry,

2796
02:22:58,239 --> 02:23:01,479
following the industry, reading the discussions, watching all the videos

2797
02:23:01,520 --> 02:23:04,399
on YouTube and everything. There wasn't until maybe about twenty

2798
02:23:04,440 --> 02:23:06,920
twenty when I started attending industry events and meeting people

2799
02:23:06,959 --> 02:23:10,959
actually inside the industry that I, you know, fell to

2800
02:23:11,079 --> 02:23:12,239
that even deeper level.

2801
02:23:13,639 --> 02:23:18,479
Speaker 7: Two things. One again as an outside observer. One of

2802
02:23:18,559 --> 02:23:23,719
the funniest gaps to me is people who are enough

2803
02:23:23,760 --> 02:23:25,959
of a hobbyist to say, oh, I want to go

2804
02:23:26,079 --> 02:23:28,559
to this trade show to see all the cool new stuff.

2805
02:23:29,200 --> 02:23:31,239
And the other group, which is people who have ever

2806
02:23:31,360 --> 02:23:34,479
been to a trade show. We're like, no, you don't.

2807
02:23:35,360 --> 02:23:38,200
And obviously if you know people, it's certainly different. But

2808
02:23:38,680 --> 02:23:41,600
there's a I won't say who, but there is a

2809
02:23:43,159 --> 02:23:46,079
recurring guest on the channel who works for a should

2810
02:23:46,079 --> 02:23:49,559
we say a legacy American manufacturer. And I never know

2811
02:23:49,639 --> 02:23:52,280
when shot show is, but I can always tell Shot

2812
02:23:52,360 --> 02:23:57,280
Show because he's miserable. He's just absolutely looking for a

2813
02:23:57,360 --> 02:23:59,840
way out. And obviously that's different if you're a reporter,

2814
02:24:00,159 --> 02:24:02,280
you know, if you're there to look at interesting stuff,

2815
02:24:02,399 --> 02:24:04,079
or if you're stuck in a booth for you know,

2816
02:24:04,200 --> 02:24:05,159
fourteen hours a day.

2817
02:24:05,159 --> 02:24:06,719
Speaker 2: I can even mentioned, Yeah.

2818
02:24:06,559 --> 02:24:09,159
Speaker 4: I would say I enjoy a shot show. It's still

2819
02:24:09,159 --> 02:24:11,840
a really hard week. I mean, it's all we also,

2820
02:24:12,079 --> 02:24:14,120
at least when the TFBTV crew goes to shot show,

2821
02:24:14,159 --> 02:24:17,040
we're doing more work than almost anybody else on the

2822
02:24:17,120 --> 02:24:19,280
media side. Still not as much as the guys who

2823
02:24:19,319 --> 02:24:20,879
have to put up the booth two days before and

2824
02:24:20,959 --> 02:24:23,639
take it down two days after. And I mean they're working,

2825
02:24:24,680 --> 02:24:28,239
they're actually working a real job. We're doing a fairly

2826
02:24:28,319 --> 02:24:32,920
high effort media job. Still it's not the same party

2827
02:24:32,959 --> 02:24:34,719
experience as it is for a lot of people attending.

2828
02:24:35,680 --> 02:24:38,760
Speaker 7: Well, see you mentioned earlier the two thousand and eight

2829
02:24:38,760 --> 02:24:42,000
to twenty fourteen timeframe, which means, I assume you remember

2830
02:24:43,000 --> 02:24:47,840
the great twenty two shortage, right, just an absolutely inexplicable event.

2831
02:24:49,200 --> 02:24:51,040
So if you could, I guess this is something that's

2832
02:24:51,559 --> 02:24:53,559
memorable to people like you and I, but that might

2833
02:24:53,680 --> 02:24:56,799
not be to my audience per se. So do you

2834
02:24:56,840 --> 02:24:58,399
want to just speak to a little bit that kind

2835
02:24:58,399 --> 02:25:00,760
of not to get too political, but like the post

2836
02:25:00,840 --> 02:25:03,680
Obama gun culture because it was a very a very

2837
02:25:03,760 --> 02:25:05,239
specific I guess air to it.

2838
02:25:06,399 --> 02:25:09,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's these all these different like eras, and so

2839
02:25:10,280 --> 02:25:14,639
as I was getting into guns in general, that was

2840
02:25:14,760 --> 02:25:17,159
as like, for example, the AR market was really starting

2841
02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:19,760
to explode, and I remember the first channel that I

2842
02:25:19,840 --> 02:25:24,600
watched extensively was nothing fancy, And I remember watching all

2843
02:25:24,639 --> 02:25:27,879
of his videos at that time. In the right around

2844
02:25:27,920 --> 02:25:32,120
twenty ten, when Obama was first elected, guns were sounding

2845
02:25:32,200 --> 02:25:35,559
like crazy, and ars had semi recently come off the

2846
02:25:35,600 --> 02:25:38,280
assault weapons band assaultits ban sunset in two thousand and four,

2847
02:25:38,360 --> 02:25:39,920
and so all of a sudden you could get all

2848
02:25:39,959 --> 02:25:43,319
these assault features again, which really is just normal features

2849
02:25:43,360 --> 02:25:47,680
on a rifle. Rifles were sometimes banned during the Assault

2850
02:25:47,680 --> 02:25:50,559
Went's Band. They were banned based on just the name

2851
02:25:50,639 --> 02:25:53,319
of the gun in very rare cases, but that was

2852
02:25:53,360 --> 02:25:55,280
such a difficult thing to do and keep up with that.

2853
02:25:55,360 --> 02:25:57,399
A lot of the band was just based on features.

2854
02:25:57,440 --> 02:25:58,760
And so what you do is you say we want

2855
02:25:58,799 --> 02:26:00,600
to ban every single air fifth team. Well, there's an

2856
02:26:00,639 --> 02:26:02,799
infinite number of manufacturers, because a new one could just

2857
02:26:02,840 --> 02:26:04,600
pop up and say this is not the Air fifteen,

2858
02:26:04,680 --> 02:26:06,719
this is the a X fifteen.

2859
02:26:07,360 --> 02:26:08,040
Speaker 2: You didn't ban that.

2860
02:26:08,479 --> 02:26:10,719
Speaker 4: So instead you say, okay, we're going to ban flash hiers,

2861
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:13,079
we're going to ban bayonet lugs, we're gonna ban high

2862
02:26:13,079 --> 02:26:17,559
capacity detachable magazines. So when that expires, all of a sudden,

2863
02:26:17,600 --> 02:26:20,440
the ar market is accessible again. And it took a

2864
02:26:20,479 --> 02:26:22,079
couple of years to catch up. But when I first

2865
02:26:22,079 --> 02:26:24,479
started watching that fancy I remember he would be reviewing

2866
02:26:25,879 --> 02:26:28,959
entry level ars that cost like twelve hundred bucks, and

2867
02:26:29,040 --> 02:26:32,079
that's in two thousand and ten money, and then he

2868
02:26:32,120 --> 02:26:34,440
would be talking about like aks. And there was also

2869
02:26:34,479 --> 02:26:37,840
a big military surplus thing around that time where you

2870
02:26:37,879 --> 02:26:40,719
could get like you could buy four Mosen Negants for

2871
02:26:40,760 --> 02:26:42,680
one hundred bucks ship straight to your door if you

2872
02:26:42,719 --> 02:26:44,559
had to see an our license, which is a curioid

2873
02:26:44,600 --> 02:26:48,559
relic license for collecting antique firearms, and like that's that.

2874
02:26:49,840 --> 02:26:52,000
The money side of it really did have a huge

2875
02:26:52,040 --> 02:26:54,079
impact on what people were into and what people were

2876
02:26:54,079 --> 02:26:57,360
talking about. And then you know, I think people have

2877
02:26:57,440 --> 02:26:59,959
described Barack Obama as the best gun salesman of all time.

2878
02:27:00,239 --> 02:27:03,159
People certainly thought he was going to at least attempt

2879
02:27:03,280 --> 02:27:05,959
to reenact in assault weapons band. They never pulled that off.

2880
02:27:07,040 --> 02:27:10,360
But the gun industry during the Obama years was white hot.

2881
02:27:11,479 --> 02:27:15,479
I mean absolutely, selling record numbers year over year over year.

2882
02:27:16,760 --> 02:27:20,479
And that is another piece of interesting like gun industry

2883
02:27:20,680 --> 02:27:23,600
history that people don't necessarily know if they're on the

2884
02:27:23,639 --> 02:27:28,159
outside looking in. That people didn't expect Donald Trump to

2885
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:31,479
get elected in twenty sixteen, so there was a massive

2886
02:27:31,559 --> 02:27:34,680
investment to you know, we're going to invest in more

2887
02:27:34,760 --> 02:27:36,920
manufacturing and we're going to take loans out, and we're

2888
02:27:36,959 --> 02:27:40,120
going to continue cranking guns and selling record numbers of

2889
02:27:40,159 --> 02:27:45,719
guns year over year during the Hillary Clinton administration and

2890
02:27:45,760 --> 02:27:49,040
then that didn't happen and it was a blood bath.

2891
02:27:49,319 --> 02:27:51,399
And right now we're in blood bath too, Like the

2892
02:27:51,479 --> 02:27:54,079
industry is just creatoring again, So yeah, it is. You know,

2893
02:27:55,040 --> 02:27:58,959
a lot of gun buying is politically motivated. People buy

2894
02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:00,799
stuff based on fear, like I'm worried I'm not gonna

2895
02:28:00,840 --> 02:28:01,719
be able to get this anymore.

2896
02:28:01,799 --> 02:28:02,280
Speaker 2: Same thing with.

2897
02:28:03,799 --> 02:28:06,159
Speaker 4: OVID rolls around and everybody's buying toilet paper. You know,

2898
02:28:06,520 --> 02:28:08,600
is if you hear a weird little rumor, you might

2899
02:28:08,680 --> 02:28:10,440
just think, like, I maybe I should get on this.

2900
02:28:12,040 --> 02:28:14,680
Speaker 7: Well, and to speak to that, because I turned twenty

2901
02:28:14,760 --> 02:28:17,520
one during the middle of the whole COVID thing, and

2902
02:28:18,520 --> 02:28:22,440
buying a gun is just impossible, literally impossible, and so

2903
02:28:23,120 --> 02:28:24,879
I ended up with what turned out to be a

2904
02:28:24,959 --> 02:28:27,879
really horrible life choice. This is how I ended up

2905
02:28:27,879 --> 02:28:30,559
being a cz fag is the only thing I could

2906
02:28:30,600 --> 02:28:33,120
ie was a CZ eighty two, which is kind of

2907
02:28:33,120 --> 02:28:35,479
a cool gun, right, It's sort of like a fancy macrov.

2908
02:28:36,479 --> 02:28:38,159
I've told this story of foreign air, so I won't

2909
02:28:38,159 --> 02:28:40,079
regale you with it. The only gun I've ever used

2910
02:28:40,079 --> 02:28:43,159
in a defensive context and it worked, So you know,

2911
02:28:43,399 --> 02:28:46,520
props to that two hundred dollars piece of complot garbage.

2912
02:28:47,280 --> 02:28:50,879
But you very much see those those trends where there's

2913
02:28:50,879 --> 02:28:53,280
sort of this external thing like, obviously we're sort of

2914
02:28:53,319 --> 02:28:55,799
past it, but you know, the big AMMO shortage from

2915
02:28:55,840 --> 02:29:01,280
COVID and immediately afterwards that absolute justmbshell. That is the

2916
02:29:01,360 --> 02:29:05,159
ak market right post sort of Russia sanctions, where there's

2917
02:29:05,200 --> 02:29:07,920
sort of this this push and pull where something happens

2918
02:29:08,079 --> 02:29:11,440
creates a shock and then the industry reacts. It's sort

2919
02:29:11,479 --> 02:29:15,120
of this bizarre I guess lack Like, let's be honest,

2920
02:29:15,360 --> 02:29:18,440
it seems as if, from my vantage point, the reasons

2921
02:29:18,520 --> 02:29:22,239
that that thermals are so cool to have now is

2922
02:29:22,559 --> 02:29:26,479
everyone has seen that somewhat harrowing footage of guys getting

2923
02:29:26,840 --> 02:29:31,000
wasted with thermals from Ukraine. Now, obviously that also creates

2924
02:29:31,000 --> 02:29:33,760
a scarcity because every thermal in the world that's worth

2925
02:29:33,799 --> 02:29:37,559
anything has been shipped to Ukraine. So that also creates

2926
02:29:37,600 --> 02:29:40,239
that sort of like that scarcity and that I mean,

2927
02:29:40,280 --> 02:29:43,159
honestly hype we were talking about earlier. But it's sort

2928
02:29:43,159 --> 02:29:46,520
of an interesting microcosm of culture more generally, right, this

2929
02:29:46,639 --> 02:29:51,120
sort of pattern of decision made two years later, what

2930
02:29:51,239 --> 02:29:53,760
has it resulted in? This is actually a question I

2931
02:29:53,840 --> 02:29:56,799
don't know the answer to because I was thinking, like, well,

2932
02:29:56,840 --> 02:30:00,479
what was after this sort of grete twenty two shortage,

2933
02:30:00,719 --> 02:30:03,479
and in my mental timeline, the very next thing is

2934
02:30:03,559 --> 02:30:07,079
the zombie craze, which I was sort of too young

2935
02:30:07,200 --> 02:30:10,040
to really understood where it came from. It was just

2936
02:30:10,879 --> 02:30:13,959
something that existed. But these show I always think is

2937
02:30:14,040 --> 02:30:17,440
the like the green Tip, not that green tip, but

2938
02:30:17,520 --> 02:30:21,639
the Hornity Vmax or zmax, right, the special zombie bullets.

2939
02:30:22,159 --> 02:30:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2940
02:30:22,360 --> 02:30:25,040
Speaker 4: I can't remember the exactly crazy stuff timeline on that,

2941
02:30:26,440 --> 02:30:28,920
so I believe if I remember correctly, the twenty two

2942
02:30:28,959 --> 02:30:31,719
shortage was like one of the weird major things that happened.

2943
02:30:31,760 --> 02:30:35,399
I think after that was the Sandy Hook shortage. After

2944
02:30:35,479 --> 02:30:37,879
the Sandy Hook shooting, there was a massive shortage of

2945
02:30:37,959 --> 02:30:40,399
firearms and ammunition. That's when I was buying my first

2946
02:30:40,440 --> 02:30:43,360
hand gun, and I had done a lot of research

2947
02:30:43,479 --> 02:30:45,360
for what I wanted to be my first handgun, my

2948
02:30:45,399 --> 02:30:46,799
first carry gun that I was going to learn to

2949
02:30:46,840 --> 02:30:48,959
shoot on. And I was also trying to save some

2950
02:30:49,000 --> 02:30:52,200
money because I was still relatively freshly employed and still

2951
02:30:52,200 --> 02:30:52,920
pretty much broke.

2952
02:30:54,719 --> 02:30:55,319
Speaker 2: But I couldn't.

2953
02:30:55,360 --> 02:30:57,440
Speaker 4: There was nothing. There was nothing on the shelves at all.

2954
02:30:57,520 --> 02:30:59,760
So I ended up with my like third choice, which

2955
02:30:59,799 --> 02:31:02,319
is a Generation three Block nineteen and now I'm a

2956
02:31:02,399 --> 02:31:05,000
massive I will always be a block fag basically forever.

2957
02:31:05,760 --> 02:31:07,319
Speaker 2: So it is yeah, funny, how look.

2958
02:31:07,239 --> 02:31:10,040
Speaker 7: You made a much better desperation choice than I did.

2959
02:31:10,399 --> 02:31:12,200
Speaker 4: But I basically I end up I had to stretch

2960
02:31:12,280 --> 02:31:13,799
my budget more than I wanted to, you know. I

2961
02:31:13,879 --> 02:31:17,840
think my first choice is a SR nine C, which

2962
02:31:17,840 --> 02:31:19,719
would have been probably like one hundred and fifty Twitter

2963
02:31:19,760 --> 02:31:22,799
bucks cheaper than the Block nineteen at that point, but

2964
02:31:23,319 --> 02:31:26,440
they were just gone, you know. So, Yeah, it's weird

2965
02:31:26,479 --> 02:31:27,280
how that stuff happens.

2966
02:31:27,319 --> 02:31:27,920
Speaker 2: And then zombie.

2967
02:31:27,920 --> 02:31:30,799
Speaker 4: I feel like zombie craze was happening throughout that entire

2968
02:31:30,920 --> 02:31:35,079
time from my perspective, maybe I'm wrong. I feel like

2969
02:31:35,120 --> 02:31:37,799
the whole zombie craze was kicked off by the Zombie

2970
02:31:37,840 --> 02:31:42,040
Survival Guide, the book by Max Brooks Nick Max Brooks,

2971
02:31:43,920 --> 02:31:48,559
which is just an awful, awful book. It's full of

2972
02:31:48,920 --> 02:31:53,959
completely nonsensical firearms advice coming from a guy who probably

2973
02:31:54,680 --> 02:31:55,559
didn't even google it.

2974
02:31:55,680 --> 02:31:56,680
Speaker 2: He probably just assumed.

2975
02:31:58,000 --> 02:32:02,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think that was patient zero to coin

2976
02:32:02,159 --> 02:32:05,159
phrase that it started all the obsession with the movies

2977
02:32:05,200 --> 02:32:06,760
and games and this whole.

2978
02:32:08,639 --> 02:32:12,120
Speaker 2: There's still this. This might dox me if someone has

2979
02:32:12,159 --> 02:32:12,719
seen this truck.

2980
02:32:12,799 --> 02:32:18,520
Speaker 4: But in my hometown there is still a lifted second

2981
02:32:18,639 --> 02:32:22,440
gen Chevy Tahoe with all the Zombie Zombie Survival or

2982
02:32:22,520 --> 02:32:25,079
Zombie Response Team stickers all over it, and it's got

2983
02:32:25,159 --> 02:32:27,200
like the big sticker on the windows is med kid

2984
02:32:27,239 --> 02:32:28,239
inside break glass.

2985
02:32:28,360 --> 02:32:30,520
Speaker 2: Like that was something people were doing for a while.

2986
02:32:30,559 --> 02:32:33,159
Speaker 4: They were like, if you need to break my window

2987
02:32:33,239 --> 02:32:37,079
to get my med kid in an emergency, do it, brother, No,

2988
02:32:37,520 --> 02:32:38,760
So that was a good time.

2989
02:32:39,360 --> 02:32:40,040
Speaker 7: Funny story.

2990
02:32:40,799 --> 02:32:42,079
Speaker 2: Whoever that guy is.

2991
02:32:42,559 --> 02:32:44,559
Speaker 7: I think there's at least one of them in every

2992
02:32:44,639 --> 02:32:46,600
small town because.

2993
02:32:47,600 --> 02:32:50,000
Speaker 2: It's a distributed network. They've got a lot of coverage yet,

2994
02:32:50,520 --> 02:32:51,159
and some of them.

2995
02:32:51,079 --> 02:32:53,840
Speaker 7: Are like Japanese soldiers out in the jungle where it's

2996
02:32:53,879 --> 02:32:56,040
like they're top. The war is over. It's been thirty

2997
02:32:56,120 --> 02:32:58,120
years and they're still just ready to go.

2998
02:32:58,680 --> 02:33:00,760
Speaker 4: They're like, hey man, we're not doing zombies anymore. And

2999
02:33:00,799 --> 02:33:02,079
they're like, what are you talking about.

3000
02:33:03,319 --> 02:33:06,239
Speaker 7: But you know, wife gets a flat tire, you know,

3001
02:33:06,399 --> 02:33:09,239
use the space saver or whatever, you know, near kind

3002
02:33:09,239 --> 02:33:12,079
of a rough area of town, so you know, aware

3003
02:33:12,159 --> 02:33:13,719
of the surroundings, will put it that way. So I'm,

3004
02:33:13,760 --> 02:33:16,079
you know, in the process of changing the tire and

3005
02:33:16,200 --> 02:33:18,399
i look over my shoulder and I see this like

3006
02:33:18,680 --> 02:33:21,639
it looks like the boomer wojack, like tall white socks,

3007
02:33:21,920 --> 02:33:27,200
everything just tilted forward, sprinting towards me, and and look

3008
02:33:27,360 --> 02:33:33,079
like he's necessarily fit the profile of who I would

3009
02:33:33,120 --> 02:33:35,200
be worried about. But still it's a large man kind

3010
02:33:35,239 --> 02:33:37,920
of running towards you, and so I sort of, you know,

3011
02:33:38,120 --> 02:33:40,879
get up, kind of prepared for some sort of altercation.

3012
02:33:41,280 --> 02:33:43,559
And he is out of breath with one of those

3013
02:33:43,680 --> 02:33:46,360
like you know, those giant like off road jeep jacks.

3014
02:33:46,760 --> 02:33:48,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the hijacker lifts.

3015
02:33:48,440 --> 02:33:51,799
Speaker 7: Spray painted lime green to get my wife's two thousand

3016
02:33:51,840 --> 02:33:55,200
and nine Volkswagen Rabbit off the ground, and he is

3017
02:33:55,719 --> 02:33:58,479
having the time of his life in front of I

3018
02:33:58,600 --> 02:34:02,760
realize the zombie response cheap right, which looks exactly how

3019
02:34:02,840 --> 02:34:05,840
you think it does. And I just made that guy's day.

3020
02:34:05,840 --> 02:34:07,959
I was like, all right, dude, obviously you are much

3021
02:34:08,000 --> 02:34:10,399
more prepared for this than I am, so i'll, you know,

3022
02:34:10,520 --> 02:34:13,159
I'll let you do it. But yeah, those guys are

3023
02:34:13,879 --> 02:34:15,760
it's sort of as a weird. It was like the

3024
02:34:15,959 --> 02:34:18,399
less I don't want to say less serious, because let's

3025
02:34:18,440 --> 02:34:20,239
be honest, a lot of these guys weren't exactly our

3026
02:34:20,760 --> 02:34:22,399
our best and brightest, but it was sort of like

3027
02:34:22,479 --> 02:34:25,680
the redheaded stepchild of the prepper movement. You know, it

3028
02:34:25,799 --> 02:34:28,760
sort of splintered off where it's like you're preparing for

3029
02:34:29,239 --> 02:34:31,959
I guess something, and maybe if this gets you to

3030
02:34:32,079 --> 02:34:35,319
do something that you may use later in life, it's

3031
02:34:35,360 --> 02:34:37,239
a net positive. But it wasn't this kind of like

3032
02:34:37,360 --> 02:34:40,079
bizarre I guess, kind of like culd sack of like

3033
02:34:40,520 --> 02:34:43,120
gun culture, prepper culture, and then also like a certain

3034
02:34:43,159 --> 02:34:44,360
era on the internet too.

3035
02:34:45,239 --> 02:34:47,440
Speaker 4: I think it was it was a level of irony

3036
02:34:47,479 --> 02:34:50,520
that allowed people to do something that they they maybe

3037
02:34:50,559 --> 02:34:52,639
they just felt like inside they wanted to do, like

3038
02:34:52,879 --> 02:34:56,360
they probably felt good about being generally prepared, but they

3039
02:34:56,399 --> 02:34:58,120
could sort of couch it in this sort of like, ah,

3040
02:34:58,200 --> 02:34:59,600
you know, it's just a it's just a funny bit

3041
02:34:59,639 --> 02:35:01,639
that I'm doing. And you know, Zombie's rival isn't that funny?

3042
02:35:02,079 --> 02:35:02,239
Speaker 7: You know.

3043
02:35:03,360 --> 02:35:06,280
Speaker 4: I suspect, like you know the Doomsday Preppers show where

3044
02:35:06,319 --> 02:35:09,680
they they they trop people out and they essentially cumulate

3045
02:35:09,760 --> 02:35:12,600
them on TV for their weird beliefs. I don't think

3046
02:35:12,639 --> 02:35:15,000
you could do that same thing with the Zombie Survival guys,

3047
02:35:15,200 --> 02:35:17,559
because they would just be too fun and the show

3048
02:35:17,600 --> 02:35:20,399
wouldn't have the same impact. I mean, maybe they're on

3049
02:35:20,440 --> 02:35:22,559
The Doctor Preppers. Yeah, like they're in on the joke

3050
02:35:22,680 --> 02:35:24,959
and you're like, but they're still doing exactly the same thing.

3051
02:35:25,040 --> 02:35:27,920
They're still stocking rice and beans and cases of the

3052
02:35:27,959 --> 02:35:30,040
twenty two long rifle because it bounces surrounded the skull

3053
02:35:30,520 --> 02:35:31,399
and destroys the brain.

3054
02:35:31,479 --> 02:35:33,079
Speaker 2: And that's as you all know, what was supposed to do.

3055
02:35:33,159 --> 02:35:37,159
It believer and big believer. He propagated that that mint.

3056
02:35:37,239 --> 02:35:39,719
Speaker 4: He also said the best survival firearm was the M

3057
02:35:39,799 --> 02:35:42,719
one car being because it's it's lightweight, reliable, and the

3058
02:35:42,760 --> 02:35:45,159
ammunition is powerful enough. And you're like, where do you

3059
02:35:45,200 --> 02:35:46,959
where's this thirty carbing anbul coming from?

3060
02:35:47,079 --> 02:35:47,280
Speaker 7: Dude?

3061
02:35:48,319 --> 02:35:50,959
Speaker 4: And he also said you should never use a crow bar.

3062
02:35:51,040 --> 02:35:53,079
I remember he was anti crowbar, I think, because he's like,

3063
02:35:53,120 --> 02:35:54,399
it'll just get stuck in the skull.

3064
02:35:56,280 --> 02:35:57,799
Speaker 2: Okay, you hit him on the other side.

3065
02:35:57,840 --> 02:36:01,520
Speaker 7: Then I don't know, man, this isn't rocket science. Yeah,

3066
02:36:01,559 --> 02:36:04,399
I remember. And this was even as a kid because

3067
02:36:04,399 --> 02:36:08,920
I this, I have a very very vivid memory of

3068
02:36:09,079 --> 02:36:12,719
having that book confiscated from me at school because obviously

3069
02:36:12,760 --> 02:36:15,120
it had you know, very kind of violent drawings in it,

3070
02:36:15,159 --> 02:36:17,479
which is like a teenager, you're like, this is awesome.

3071
02:36:18,040 --> 02:36:22,200
There's a dude stomping some guy's brains out, and you know,

3072
02:36:22,440 --> 02:36:26,200
a very reasonable, concerned teacher was like, hey, Bud sitting

3073
02:36:26,239 --> 02:36:29,000
in the back of class drawing pictures of people getting

3074
02:36:29,040 --> 02:36:31,319
curb stomped. This is a red flag.

3075
02:36:31,840 --> 02:36:34,120
Speaker 2: But French coat collar flipped up around your ears.

3076
02:36:34,879 --> 02:36:36,879
Speaker 7: See ow to private school, so we had uniforms. But

3077
02:36:37,680 --> 02:36:39,639
point is the thing I always remembered, and even as

3078
02:36:39,680 --> 02:36:41,799
a kid, I was like, this is cope was there

3079
02:36:41,840 --> 02:36:44,120
was a section in that book on body type and

3080
02:36:44,200 --> 02:36:46,600
he's like, yeah, the best body type for survival is

3081
02:36:46,639 --> 02:36:50,159
being fat, So really being fat is an advantage. And

3082
02:36:50,280 --> 02:36:52,399
even as a kid, I was like this is Are

3083
02:36:52,440 --> 02:36:54,959
we still talking about zombies or is this you proving

3084
02:36:55,040 --> 02:36:56,079
a point to someone?

3085
02:36:56,479 --> 02:36:56,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

3086
02:36:57,879 --> 02:36:58,399
Speaker 2: Well, then.

3087
02:37:00,000 --> 02:37:01,559
Speaker 4: Bombie Land comes out and they're doing all their like

3088
02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:03,559
the rules to survival, and one of their main rules

3089
02:37:03,600 --> 02:37:05,680
is cardio and I was like, yeah, that's probably that's

3090
02:37:05,840 --> 02:37:08,520
probably the smartest thing in any zombie movie ever. It's

3091
02:37:08,559 --> 02:37:10,319
like you need to be able to run really fast.

3092
02:37:10,440 --> 02:37:13,200
That movie also has rave zobbies, so maybe maybe Max

3093
02:37:13,280 --> 02:37:17,159
Brooks's zombies were the slow type. Yeah, I think I

3094
02:37:17,239 --> 02:37:19,559
got that book. Yeah, the classic zombie. I think I

3095
02:37:19,639 --> 02:37:22,280
got that book at like like a bookstore at a

3096
02:37:22,360 --> 02:37:25,200
midnight event. Was like, hey, you know, young people, come

3097
02:37:25,239 --> 02:37:27,239
on down to this midnight event instead of going off

3098
02:37:27,280 --> 02:37:30,239
and partying or whatever. And then I think that book

3099
02:37:30,319 --> 02:37:31,680
was like brand new at the time, and so we

3100
02:37:31,840 --> 02:37:33,879
Roisie Miller on the bookstore, like, you know, look at

3101
02:37:33,879 --> 02:37:35,639
it books and card games.

3102
02:37:35,440 --> 02:37:36,719
Speaker 2: And stuff like that, and I picked them up.

3103
02:37:36,719 --> 02:37:39,120
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, man, look through and I read a

3104
02:37:39,159 --> 02:37:41,040
handful of pages and I was like, I'm buying this

3105
02:37:41,319 --> 02:37:44,319
for sure, and I read it eventually I read the

3106
02:37:44,479 --> 02:37:46,280
entire thing. Was like, no, wait a second, I have

3107
02:37:46,399 --> 02:37:47,319
a lot of bones.

3108
02:37:47,079 --> 02:37:47,799
Speaker 2: To pick with this guy.

3109
02:37:50,120 --> 02:37:54,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, I remember, And again it was very much kind

3110
02:37:54,079 --> 02:37:56,440
of like of the age, but all of those kind

3111
02:37:56,479 --> 02:38:01,360
of zombie properties. I feel like we're filled with fudlore

3112
02:38:01,479 --> 02:38:04,879
mostly applies to guns, but just the craziest collection of

3113
02:38:05,639 --> 02:38:09,639
bizarre urban legends kind of combined together in one like

3114
02:38:09,760 --> 02:38:12,280
I remember, and maybe it was Zombie survival Guides or

3115
02:38:12,360 --> 02:38:16,040
World War Z those are those books are basically merged

3116
02:38:16,079 --> 02:38:18,280
into one thing in my brain, so I'm not entirely

3117
02:38:18,360 --> 02:38:18,799
sure where.

3118
02:38:19,239 --> 02:38:21,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, World War Z was the was the novel about

3119
02:38:22,399 --> 02:38:25,760
the fictional zombie apocalypse. Zombie Survival Guide was written, wasn't it.

3120
02:38:26,840 --> 02:38:28,520
I think so, yeah, And it tells the story of

3121
02:38:28,639 --> 02:38:33,120
like the reconstruction of humanity afterwards, whereas Zombie Survival Guide,

3122
02:38:33,120 --> 02:38:34,879
I think was really presented as if it was a

3123
02:38:34,959 --> 02:38:37,840
serious document like that in the world of World War Z,

3124
02:38:38,000 --> 02:38:40,200
the Zombie Survival Guide exists and is like printed and

3125
02:38:40,239 --> 02:38:42,799
handed around, like if you're in that world, you've you've

3126
02:38:42,920 --> 02:38:44,000
definitely been familiar with this.

3127
02:38:44,079 --> 02:38:45,719
Speaker 2: It is your bible in this in the world of

3128
02:38:45,760 --> 02:38:46,280
World War Z.

3129
02:38:46,399 --> 02:38:49,600
Speaker 7: I think, but this was definitely World War Z because

3130
02:38:49,639 --> 02:38:53,600
I remember his grand the authors how we beat the

3131
02:38:53,719 --> 02:38:57,760
zombie hordes. It was basically just taken straight from Napoleonic warfare.

3132
02:38:57,840 --> 02:39:00,920
It was like, yeah, we just have guys standing a box.

3133
02:39:01,040 --> 02:39:04,479
Speaker 4: And riplemented a box formation, and they have this custom

3134
02:39:04,520 --> 02:39:06,399
gun that they made where every bullet is a is

3135
02:39:06,760 --> 02:39:09,959
exploding incendiary, and it's like, yeah, they just they just

3136
02:39:10,239 --> 02:39:13,239
stand there, they have ranks and they just shoot zombies

3137
02:39:13,280 --> 02:39:15,079
in the head with these these I think they're called

3138
02:39:15,159 --> 02:39:16,040
cherry pie bullets.

3139
02:39:17,559 --> 02:39:20,639
Speaker 7: Oh man, it's all right, fair enough, it's entertaining. I'll

3140
02:39:20,680 --> 02:39:20,920
take it.

3141
02:39:21,120 --> 02:39:24,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's World Wars is a fun zombie story. The

3142
02:39:24,200 --> 02:39:28,159
Zombie Surpival Guide is uh, just to pack lize.

3143
02:39:30,120 --> 02:39:33,120
Speaker 7: Well, that's honestly something I kind of miss because okay,

3144
02:39:33,840 --> 02:39:38,879
here's a here's a rant. Millennials and gen z love

3145
02:39:39,040 --> 02:39:43,040
to talk about fudlore making fun of baby boomers, and

3146
02:39:43,200 --> 02:39:46,479
yet they have done literally the exact same thing, just

3147
02:39:46,600 --> 02:39:50,559
with a slightly newer set of myths, like like nothing

3148
02:39:50,639 --> 02:39:53,639
has changed, time is a flat circle. All we've done

3149
02:39:53,760 --> 02:39:55,879
is found a new group of old men to make

3150
02:39:55,959 --> 02:39:59,319
fun of and propagate the exact because I mean, I'm

3151
02:39:59,360 --> 02:40:02,799
sure you can think the same sort of like modern Internet.

3152
02:40:03,639 --> 02:40:06,799
I guess what would you say, like like rules of thumb, right,

3153
02:40:06,840 --> 02:40:11,399
they're just equally as wrong. And it drives me nuts

3154
02:40:11,440 --> 02:40:14,239
because you mentioned much earlier than discussion the sort of

3155
02:40:14,319 --> 02:40:18,520
like uh like Reddit performative outrage. But you see the

3156
02:40:18,639 --> 02:40:20,440
exact same thing that they are these sort of like

3157
02:40:20,840 --> 02:40:23,600
unwritten rules that you just are not even unwritten. The

3158
02:40:23,719 --> 02:40:26,479
rules you don't violate, and you will induce a massive

3159
02:40:26,600 --> 02:40:29,000
chimp out if even for a very good reason you

3160
02:40:29,120 --> 02:40:33,200
sort of like bend or modify them. Like the easiest

3161
02:40:33,239 --> 02:40:35,760
example to hand is the is the Reddit finger. Right,

3162
02:40:35,840 --> 02:40:40,040
They're like very performatively, like sticking your finger like ludicrously

3163
02:40:40,159 --> 02:40:42,120
far away from the trigger just so you can be

3164
02:40:42,280 --> 02:40:44,920
one of the cool, good guys who knows about safety.

3165
02:40:45,159 --> 02:40:48,520
And obviously that's you know, that's something else. But at

3166
02:40:48,559 --> 02:40:52,399
the same time it drives me nuts that whole conversation

3167
02:40:52,879 --> 02:40:54,959
because again it's like we have not moved on, like

3168
02:40:55,040 --> 02:40:57,879
this exact same thing still happens. I'm sure you can

3169
02:40:57,959 --> 02:40:59,440
think of a couple examples of that, kind of like

3170
02:40:59,559 --> 02:41:00,840
modern flood law. Right.

3171
02:41:01,520 --> 02:41:04,959
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, nothing's spring to mind immediately, but I have.

3172
02:41:05,239 --> 02:41:07,399
I've definitely noticed that when I go back and read

3173
02:41:07,479 --> 02:41:11,280
like old magazines. That's something I've started liketing recently is

3174
02:41:11,319 --> 02:41:14,239
trying to learn or trying to find information about old stuff.

3175
02:41:15,520 --> 02:41:18,360
It's it's difficult just to begin with, but there's also

3176
02:41:18,520 --> 02:41:23,319
the aspect of how was this received the time or

3177
02:41:23,360 --> 02:41:26,200
how is it perceived at the time. So I'm interested

3178
02:41:26,319 --> 02:41:29,079
not just in just basic facts about guns, like what

3179
02:41:29,280 --> 02:41:31,239
year did it come out, because that's often hard to

3180
02:41:31,280 --> 02:41:33,079
figure out, but also like what do people actually think

3181
02:41:33,079 --> 02:41:35,520
about this? And what I've learned is that nothing changes

3182
02:41:35,639 --> 02:41:40,079
that then thirty years ago as now there were shill

3183
02:41:40,319 --> 02:41:43,000
articles and there were real reviewers, like you can read

3184
02:41:43,680 --> 02:41:47,559
reviews of a gun that is now historically recognized as

3185
02:41:47,600 --> 02:41:49,959
being dogshit, like the Cold Double Eagle, for example.

3186
02:41:50,200 --> 02:41:50,639
Speaker 2: I go back.

3187
02:41:50,639 --> 02:41:53,360
Speaker 4: I have a bunch of magazines from the era with articles,

3188
02:41:53,760 --> 02:41:55,360
and in some of them you can tell the guys

3189
02:41:55,440 --> 02:41:57,799
like a serious probably a pretty good shooter, a very

3190
02:41:57,879 --> 02:42:00,000
serious reviewer, and he's pointing out all of the philosophy

3191
02:42:00,120 --> 02:42:03,360
gun and another one the guy's just like, whoa cool

3192
02:42:03,479 --> 02:42:05,120
new gun. This is the best thing. And you're like,

3193
02:42:05,239 --> 02:42:09,680
that's just thirty five year old magazine slot content. It's

3194
02:42:09,760 --> 02:42:12,040
literally no different. So people are like, everything's just like,

3195
02:42:12,719 --> 02:42:15,200
you know, just an advertisement, just third party advertising.

3196
02:42:15,280 --> 02:42:15,879
Speaker 2: It's just slot.

3197
02:42:15,959 --> 02:42:18,079
Speaker 4: You're like, everything has always just been slot man, Like

3198
02:42:18,440 --> 02:42:22,120
the nuggets, the diamonds, and the rough will always exist,

3199
02:42:22,479 --> 02:42:24,600
They're always going to be there, But the mainstream is

3200
02:42:24,680 --> 02:42:25,120
just going to be.

3201
02:42:25,120 --> 02:42:27,040
Speaker 2: People who are like, oh, this is awesome, it's cool,

3202
02:42:27,040 --> 02:42:27,399
it's new.

3203
02:42:28,959 --> 02:42:31,639
Speaker 7: Well, I feel like you see the same thing. I

3204
02:42:32,319 --> 02:42:34,319
spent a lot of time on forums as a kid,

3205
02:42:35,280 --> 02:42:38,239
learned a lot about a lot of things. For instance,

3206
02:42:38,319 --> 02:42:40,639
learn how to swear from random forums, which is a

3207
02:42:40,760 --> 02:42:43,959
very cool thing to pick up at nine. But point is,

3208
02:42:44,879 --> 02:42:46,959
there is this sort of like rose tinted glasses of

3209
02:42:47,040 --> 02:42:50,520
looking back and only remembering just the best information. Right,

3210
02:42:50,600 --> 02:42:52,520
the thing that you found was exactly what you needed.

3211
02:42:52,799 --> 02:42:55,360
But if you're sorting chronologically, like you're digging for something

3212
02:42:55,440 --> 02:42:58,040
kind of specific and like a eighty to one hundred

3213
02:42:58,079 --> 02:43:01,840
post thread, you realize, no, again, this was just as

3214
02:43:01,959 --> 02:43:04,840
much garbage. It's just slightly easier to search a garbage,

3215
02:43:04,959 --> 02:43:07,159
which I'll admit is an advantage. Right, It's why I

3216
02:43:07,239 --> 02:43:10,760
keep going back to those forums. But people treated those

3217
02:43:10,959 --> 02:43:12,520
exactly like red you know.

3218
02:43:12,760 --> 02:43:16,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can find flame wars between two fifty five

3219
02:43:16,280 --> 02:43:18,920
year old men who are just like and they're doing

3220
02:43:19,000 --> 02:43:21,360
the same Reddit thing. They're like the point by point

3221
02:43:21,399 --> 02:43:24,559
rebuttal of the post, like you called me. You called

3222
02:43:24,600 --> 02:43:26,159
me this, like I didn't call you. That's like, well

3223
02:43:26,159 --> 02:43:28,040
you implied, Well I didn't imply anything, And you're like

3224
02:43:28,680 --> 02:43:30,879
the thread is about like what's the ballistic coefficient of

3225
02:43:30,959 --> 02:43:34,639
a cartridge? You know, And it's just two retired guys

3226
02:43:34,840 --> 02:43:37,879
just like sniping at each other as if it was redded.

3227
02:43:38,760 --> 02:43:41,520
Speaker 7: My favorite nothing this is a very specific one. But

3228
02:43:41,639 --> 02:43:44,959
there's a couple of really early six or five Grendel

3229
02:43:45,079 --> 02:43:50,719
threads on Sniper's Hide that are just pure rage on

3230
02:43:50,920 --> 02:43:53,120
all sides. It's just like a war of all against

3231
02:43:53,200 --> 02:43:56,719
all debating completely irrelevant points. And my favorite one, I

3232
02:43:56,719 --> 02:43:59,600
wish I could find it, but it's the classic listing

3233
02:43:59,680 --> 02:44:03,280
out which logical fallacies you have used in response to

3234
02:44:03,440 --> 02:44:06,879
as you've said, a very niche discussion of like ballistic

3235
02:44:06,959 --> 02:44:10,360
coefficients of like what was then a largely experimental round.

3236
02:44:10,440 --> 02:44:12,319
And it's like, you know what, the Internet never changes.

3237
02:44:12,399 --> 02:44:13,959
It's just a constant.

3238
02:44:15,040 --> 02:44:18,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, the enthusiasts are are nuts. There is a lot

3239
02:44:18,959 --> 02:44:22,040
of like yeah, secret hidden juicee details on there, Like

3240
02:44:22,120 --> 02:44:26,159
I always search ar fifteen dot com orcom anytime I'm

3241
02:44:26,159 --> 02:44:29,440
trying to find, you know, the historical record, like what

3242
02:44:29,520 --> 02:44:32,360
do people think about this at the time, which takes

3243
02:44:32,399 --> 02:44:34,799
a lot of searching. Consiner it's busted now. But what

3244
02:44:34,879 --> 02:44:38,360
I've also figured out is that it's really tough to

3245
02:44:39,239 --> 02:44:41,520
trust people's memory of what happened because a lot of

3246
02:44:41,559 --> 02:44:44,079
people don't remember years particularly well. I mean, we had

3247
02:44:44,159 --> 02:44:47,440
we had a hard time. We talked about Sandy Hook earlier.

3248
02:44:47,479 --> 02:44:49,079
I don't remember what you're that if you asked me,

3249
02:44:49,120 --> 02:44:51,639
I'd say twenty twelve. That I might be wrong, So

3250
02:44:51,840 --> 02:44:52,120
it's like.

3251
02:44:53,719 --> 02:44:56,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, let's go with that, because I also don't remember.

3252
02:44:56,479 --> 02:44:59,479
Speaker 4: Yeah or twenty maybe it's twenty fourteen. But you see

3253
02:44:59,520 --> 02:45:01,680
on like forums or you ask people, or I receive

3254
02:45:01,719 --> 02:45:03,319
comments from this all the time where they're like I

3255
02:45:03,559 --> 02:45:06,040
was there, you know, Like I will have comments with

3256
02:45:06,079 --> 02:45:07,639
people being like I had one of these back in

3257
02:45:07,680 --> 02:45:09,879
nineteen seventy six, and I'm like, that company didn't exist

3258
02:45:09,959 --> 02:45:12,239
until nineteen eighty nine, So what is it that you

3259
02:45:12,360 --> 02:45:16,639
think you remember? Like you're confused, I'm sorry, sir. Like

3260
02:45:17,079 --> 02:45:19,639
the historical record may be off slightly, but it's not

3261
02:45:19,760 --> 02:45:22,600
off by that much. So you have you remember or

3262
02:45:22,680 --> 02:45:24,719
you've constructed a memory that it's just untrue and you

3263
02:45:24,719 --> 02:45:27,520
can find all that stuff there. So just because it'saw

3264
02:45:27,559 --> 02:45:29,680
on arc common doesn't mean it's true. Though most of

3265
02:45:29,680 --> 02:45:33,440
the time, most of the time, Rfcom's pretty good well.

3266
02:45:33,479 --> 02:45:35,600
Speaker 7: And that's sort of the sad thing about you know,

3267
02:45:35,639 --> 02:45:37,600
whether you want to call it like dead Internet theory

3268
02:45:37,680 --> 02:45:40,200
or whatever. But you mentioned earlier the Internet getting more

3269
02:45:40,239 --> 02:45:44,000
and more broken, is it? In regardless of your area

3270
02:45:44,360 --> 02:45:47,280
of interest. If you dig deep enough, you'll very quickly

3271
02:45:47,360 --> 02:45:51,399
realize you've you've sort of like gone into the geologic table,

3272
02:45:51,639 --> 02:45:54,079
but too far back, like it's just bedrock. You know,

3273
02:45:54,159 --> 02:45:57,280
it's gone. And it is sort of a sad thing

3274
02:45:57,399 --> 02:45:59,520
because and again this is very much the kind of

3275
02:45:59,600 --> 02:46:03,040
rose cul glasses, but I remember the time which if

3276
02:46:03,120 --> 02:46:06,040
you wanted to find something, it was almost undoubtedly there.

3277
02:46:06,559 --> 02:46:08,959
And to have something not just not have a record

3278
02:46:09,000 --> 02:46:11,120
of it, right, we don't know, but to be like, oh,

3279
02:46:11,280 --> 02:46:14,399
we did know like three years ago, but they stopped

3280
02:46:14,440 --> 02:46:18,319
paying for the domain, so it's all gone. Is It's

3281
02:46:18,360 --> 02:46:20,200
sort of a haunting thing when you're looking for something

3282
02:46:20,239 --> 02:46:21,920
and it's just like, oh, it's just a ghost now.

3283
02:46:22,879 --> 02:46:23,079
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3284
02:46:23,079 --> 02:46:27,159
Speaker 4: And I don't I don't usually try this, maybe it's possible.

3285
02:46:27,719 --> 02:46:30,559
I use like the Internet archive a lot to find

3286
02:46:30,639 --> 02:46:32,319
old versions of stuff, but like my favorite is to

3287
02:46:32,360 --> 02:46:34,600
find old versions of manufacturer websites. You know, you go

3288
02:46:34,680 --> 02:46:36,440
to the you go to EOTECH's website, you go to

3289
02:46:36,520 --> 02:46:39,680
their red dots page or their you know, reflex sites

3290
02:46:39,719 --> 02:46:41,879
page or whatever. They've probably done a pretty good job

3291
02:46:41,920 --> 02:46:44,559
of keeping that link consistent and they just update that page.

3292
02:46:44,680 --> 02:46:47,879
So the URL if you put it into the wayback machine,

3293
02:46:48,600 --> 02:46:51,680
go back fifteen years, it's gonna be a page, an

3294
02:46:51,680 --> 02:46:54,520
active page on our website with products or fifteen years ago.

3295
02:46:54,959 --> 02:46:56,399
So like you can learn a lot of stuff there.

3296
02:46:56,479 --> 02:46:59,319
But like you used to be able to google something

3297
02:46:59,440 --> 02:47:02,079
or just certain whatever MetaCrawler or whatever your search engine

3298
02:47:02,120 --> 02:47:06,559
of choice was, and you'd get pages of and crafted

3299
02:47:07,680 --> 02:47:10,200
enthusiast content essentially, like there were used to be. Like

3300
02:47:11,360 --> 02:47:12,760
I remember when I was a kid, you could go

3301
02:47:13,000 --> 02:47:16,799
Google Perfect Dark and there were like a dozen fan websites,

3302
02:47:16,920 --> 02:47:20,079
just homemade websites, angel Fire, GeoCities, whatever, all these little

3303
02:47:20,120 --> 02:47:25,000
like niche hosting services, and people would like have secrets,

3304
02:47:25,040 --> 02:47:27,120
they have screenshots. They'd be like, here's the secret on

3305
02:47:27,159 --> 02:47:28,840
this level, here's you know how to beat this level. Here,

3306
02:47:28,879 --> 02:47:30,399
just had to get this achievement or whatever, like and

3307
02:47:31,360 --> 02:47:34,120
unlocked cheek coats and goldennye or something. I don't know

3308
02:47:34,159 --> 02:47:37,239
if those websites exist. I assume they don't because they

3309
02:47:37,319 --> 02:47:40,760
were on weird fly by night hosting services that either

3310
02:47:40,799 --> 02:47:42,879
don't exist anymore or somebody stopped paying for them, so

3311
02:47:42,959 --> 02:47:46,200
the website's probably gone. They may be on the Internet archive,

3312
02:47:46,319 --> 02:47:47,840
but I don't know. How to find them because I

3313
02:47:47,879 --> 02:47:53,680
don't remember what the specific you know, GeoCities dot pd zefanpage,

3314
02:47:53,760 --> 02:47:56,799
dot joy or whatever like some weird at url I

3315
02:47:56,840 --> 02:48:00,360
can't remember. Then let him write them down, Like a

3316
02:48:00,399 --> 02:48:03,079
lot of this stuff would would be cool to see again,

3317
02:48:03,239 --> 02:48:04,920
but we're never gonna see it again.

3318
02:48:06,120 --> 02:48:10,040
Speaker 7: Well, and I think that the trend, I mean, over

3319
02:48:10,079 --> 02:48:14,680
the entire life of the Internet has been towards consolidation, right,

3320
02:48:14,719 --> 02:48:17,920
and when when with that consolidation comes that sort of

3321
02:48:18,040 --> 02:48:20,799
like massification where you know, much like the sort of

3322
02:48:20,920 --> 02:48:24,639
like really bizarre like Chinese movies that you see every

3323
02:48:24,639 --> 02:48:26,040
once in a while, where it's like this is a

3324
02:48:26,120 --> 02:48:31,120
movie made for forty percent of the globe, so it's

3325
02:48:31,159 --> 02:48:35,000
not really about anything. It has no cultural touchstones. It's

3326
02:48:35,040 --> 02:48:39,000
sort of just generalized entertainment, right, you can imagine being

3327
02:48:39,040 --> 02:48:42,239
like almost industrially produced. But there's been a similar thing

3328
02:48:42,399 --> 02:48:45,840
with any one of these these sort of interests, you know,

3329
02:48:46,040 --> 02:48:48,639
these hobbies where you know, as it goes kind of

3330
02:48:48,719 --> 02:48:51,520
higher and higher up the food chain gets to bigger

3331
02:48:51,600 --> 02:48:55,559
and bigger as kind of like aggregation sites, the sort

3332
02:48:55,600 --> 02:48:57,879
of specifics about like okay, well, let's say you're in

3333
02:48:57,879 --> 02:49:00,559
a form of a thousand people, obviously there's a pyramid

3334
02:49:00,920 --> 02:49:03,879
ninety percent lurkers, so we save one hundred active users

3335
02:49:04,120 --> 02:49:07,600
half of them are stupid. Some means you've got fifty people. Okay,

3336
02:49:07,920 --> 02:49:10,360
those are fifty people that you may not know them personally,

3337
02:49:10,479 --> 02:49:13,280
but that's well under Dunbar's number. Right, that's a group

3338
02:49:13,319 --> 02:49:15,840
of people you can sort of weigh their opinions on anything.

3339
02:49:16,399 --> 02:49:20,399
Whereas okay, now you're on you know, let's just say

3340
02:49:20,479 --> 02:49:23,600
the AR fifteen. Do you say boards on Reddit? I

3341
02:49:23,600 --> 02:49:27,239
don't use Reddit enough to know the terminology subreddit. That's

3342
02:49:27,280 --> 02:49:29,479
the right word, subred. I probably could have figured that

3343
02:49:29,520 --> 02:49:30,920
out if I thought a little bit about it. But

3344
02:49:31,920 --> 02:49:36,079
that's a one completely open to public, and two how

3345
02:49:36,120 --> 02:49:39,959
many users are on that? I assume tens of thousands yep.

3346
02:49:40,120 --> 02:49:43,559
And so if you're interested in something very very specific,

3347
02:49:43,799 --> 02:49:47,680
not just you know, the whole big topic, what your

3348
02:49:47,719 --> 02:49:51,719
ability to find that information quickly is largely gone. And

3349
02:49:51,840 --> 02:49:54,639
I mean regardless of whatever your hobby is, you sort

3350
02:49:54,680 --> 02:49:57,040
of see the same thing that as it gets more popular,

3351
02:49:57,479 --> 02:50:00,319
there's certainly benefits to that, but you sort of lose

3352
02:50:00,399 --> 02:50:03,000
the resolution, right, It becomes more and more difficult to

3353
02:50:03,079 --> 02:50:07,799
find the specific information, and uh, obviously, you know, it's

3354
02:50:07,840 --> 02:50:10,239
kind of social media has passed me by, and there

3355
02:50:10,280 --> 02:50:12,520
are new and scary forms of technology that I don't

3356
02:50:12,600 --> 02:50:16,360
understand that that trend just kind of continues apace. Like

3357
02:50:16,479 --> 02:50:18,520
the moment I realized I was old is when I

3358
02:50:18,559 --> 02:50:23,479
started seeing gun asmr tiktoks re uploaded to YouTube, and

3359
02:50:23,600 --> 02:50:27,000
I was like, I not only don't understand, none of those.

3360
02:50:26,840 --> 02:50:27,799
Speaker 2: Sports are in the Bible.

3361
02:50:28,440 --> 02:50:32,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly when King James wrote the Bible, you never

3362
02:50:32,319 --> 02:50:33,799
said any of those and so, uh.

3363
02:50:35,440 --> 02:50:36,000
Speaker 2: But sorry that.

3364
02:50:38,559 --> 02:50:41,159
Speaker 7: Yeah, fair enough. Well, dude, this is I guess sort

3365
02:50:41,200 --> 02:50:44,559
of a more morbid note to end things on. But

3366
02:50:45,000 --> 02:50:47,959
work fast approaching time. If people want to find you

3367
02:50:48,040 --> 02:50:49,399
and your work, what's a good way for them to

3368
02:50:49,479 --> 02:50:49,639
do that?

3369
02:50:50,680 --> 02:50:50,799
Speaker 2: Uh?

3370
02:50:51,639 --> 02:50:54,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, your best bet is to go to go to

3371
02:50:54,360 --> 02:50:57,520
YouTube and search Hop night Vision, because that'll that'll drill

3372
02:50:57,600 --> 02:50:59,680
it down pretty far. If you just search Hop, you're

3373
02:50:59,680 --> 02:51:03,200
gonna this weird like animated kids show channel about a

3374
02:51:03,280 --> 02:51:04,719
rabbit that's.

3375
02:51:04,559 --> 02:51:07,399
Speaker 7: Not I assumed. I assumed that's what the dog whistle

3376
02:51:07,520 --> 02:51:09,399
was for. This was like a secret furry thing.

3377
02:51:09,600 --> 02:51:13,360
Speaker 4: Oh no, I wish that'd be a lot a lot

3378
02:51:13,760 --> 02:51:17,920
more well accepted among the aforementioned separated.

3379
02:51:18,000 --> 02:51:21,120
Speaker 7: That being a Marathon fag exactly.

3380
02:51:21,559 --> 02:51:27,000
Speaker 4: Like, Uh, I'm still embarrassed. I don't have a Macintosh

3381
02:51:27,079 --> 02:51:29,920
copy of Marathon too, the PC box and it's square,

3382
02:51:29,959 --> 02:51:32,399
it's not triangular, so it really does look out of place.

3383
02:51:32,479 --> 02:51:33,920
Speaker 2: So I am a fake Marathon fan.

3384
02:51:34,559 --> 02:51:38,280
Speaker 7: See this is exactly I mean, speaking of kids not

3385
02:51:38,399 --> 02:51:44,360
understanding yesterday's technology effectively, Golden Eye, I can get. I

3386
02:51:44,440 --> 02:51:47,159
was a little before my time, but I've got it. Marathon.

3387
02:51:48,360 --> 02:51:50,639
I felt like I was like like they were asking

3388
02:51:50,719 --> 02:51:53,000
me to speak Mandard. I was like, what are these controls?

3389
02:51:53,120 --> 02:51:55,879
What am I doing? And so I gave up.

3390
02:51:57,559 --> 02:52:00,159
Speaker 4: Impenetrable would be a good way to describe it. I'm

3391
02:52:00,440 --> 02:52:05,239
absolutely adore Marathon. It's a fantastic game, and people try

3392
02:52:05,319 --> 02:52:07,360
to compare it to Doom, which is its biggest contemporary,

3393
02:52:07,559 --> 02:52:09,760
and it just doesn't compare to Doom because Doom has

3394
02:52:09,920 --> 02:52:13,000
no story. Marathon has all a story. Doom has phenomenal

3395
02:52:13,040 --> 02:52:17,760
gameplay and level design. Marathon has perfunctory gameplay and mixed

3396
02:52:17,799 --> 02:52:19,920
level design. Some levels are okay, a lot of them

3397
02:52:19,920 --> 02:52:25,440
are not great. So playing Marathon is hotile like it

3398
02:52:25,559 --> 02:52:27,680
is even if you play on an easy difficulty, it's

3399
02:52:27,680 --> 02:52:30,760
still it just doesn't doesn't feel right, Whereas I feel

3400
02:52:30,799 --> 02:52:32,680
like almost anybody could play Doom, even with the old

3401
02:52:32,680 --> 02:52:35,680
school Doom controls, and be like this is fluid and awesome.

3402
02:52:35,879 --> 02:52:36,079
Speaker 2: You know.

3403
02:52:36,399 --> 02:52:39,680
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's it's not that you had to be there,

3404
02:52:40,200 --> 02:52:41,760
it's just that you have to look. You have to

3405
02:52:41,799 --> 02:52:44,520
look well beyond the presentation and the and the surface

3406
02:52:44,600 --> 02:52:49,520
level aspects of the game. And I don't like remakes,

3407
02:52:50,799 --> 02:52:54,799
but I think Marathon maybe could use a remake, not

3408
02:52:54,920 --> 02:52:57,479
this weird extraction shooter nonsense that they're that they're probably

3409
02:52:57,520 --> 02:52:58,799
going to fail to come out with anyway.

3410
02:52:58,879 --> 02:53:03,360
Speaker 7: So yeah, yeah, it's sort of an interesting point. And

3411
02:53:03,479 --> 02:53:06,719
not to drag us back into deep esoteric Internet waters,

3412
02:53:06,760 --> 02:53:09,159
but to your point about barriered entry, it was sort

3413
02:53:09,200 --> 02:53:11,559
of the same thing, you know, in an earlier era

3414
02:53:11,680 --> 02:53:15,040
of the Internet, when both actually getting on the Internet

3415
02:53:15,200 --> 02:53:18,719
was a difficult thing to do, relatively speaking, and also

3416
02:53:18,840 --> 02:53:22,639
to both get to and contribute to a discussion around

3417
02:53:22,680 --> 02:53:25,360
a topic required some effort. Like don't get me wrong,

3418
02:53:25,600 --> 02:53:27,959
as you said earlier, there was still plenty of garbage

3419
02:53:28,000 --> 02:53:30,559
out there, but it was sort of a filtering mechanism

3420
02:53:30,639 --> 02:53:33,200
on the front end to keep out at least some

3421
02:53:33,600 --> 02:53:35,360
amount of nonsense that you see.

3422
02:53:35,440 --> 02:53:35,559
Speaker 4: Now.

3423
02:53:36,000 --> 02:53:39,000
Speaker 7: I know it's sort of an interesting thing, your comparison

3424
02:53:39,120 --> 02:53:46,799
from Doom to Marathon. It's completely off topic, sort of

3425
02:53:46,920 --> 02:53:51,319
my exact feelings about the Dark Messiah games or sorry,

3426
02:53:51,360 --> 02:53:54,600
the hears of Mike and Magic games and the Elder

3427
02:53:54,639 --> 02:53:57,120
Scrolls games. But this is a conversation for another time.

3428
02:53:57,319 --> 02:54:00,760
That if fifty percent of my audience is introt in guns,

3429
02:54:01,159 --> 02:54:04,600
zero percent is interested in my opinion on early two

3430
02:54:04,680 --> 02:54:08,959
thousands computer RPG games. But anyway, I'll be sure to

3431
02:54:09,280 --> 02:54:11,360
link your stuff in the description. It was a good

3432
02:54:11,360 --> 02:54:12,000
conversation man.

3433
02:54:12,040 --> 02:54:14,319
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on, Sylany, Thanks for having me.

3434
02:54:15,239 --> 02:54:17,280
Speaker 7: If you like my stuff, the best way to support

3435
02:54:17,319 --> 02:54:21,840
it is to find me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere

3436
02:54:21,959 --> 02:54:24,399
you listen to podcasts. If you want to support us,

3437
02:54:24,479 --> 02:54:28,799
Axios Remote and Fish Fish, I'll edit that out. Axios

3438
02:54:28,920 --> 02:54:32,319
Remote Fitness and Coaching is our sponsor. Sure to check

3439
02:54:32,319 --> 02:54:36,840
them out. JD is an absolute animal, intimidating human being

3440
02:54:37,079 --> 02:54:39,440
and you wouldn't want to make him angry again. Hop

3441
02:54:39,559 --> 02:54:41,879
I appreciate it, and everyone keep your head up. I

3442
02:54:41,959 --> 02:54:42,639
can't last forever.

3443
02:54:42,760 --> 02:55:08,479
Speaker 6: Good night, that's isogail art A programs,