WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Our first idea with this panel, which is who is

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<v Speaker 1>a villain?

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<v Speaker 2>Who is a bad guy in this situation of the apodos?

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<v Speaker 2>How can we wrap our heads around why people made

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<v Speaker 2>the choices that they make in the setting and the

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<v Speaker 2>world that we're in.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Something that is really something that we really have to

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<v Speaker 3>think about is when you don't have a future, or

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<v Speaker 3>your future is really unknown, it's really it can be

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<v Speaker 3>really hard to find a purpose that isn't just revenge

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<v Speaker 3>based on all the different things that have happened, because

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<v Speaker 3>you're gonna the apocalypse, so your bodies and brains are

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<v Speaker 3>gonna be just trying to survive the whole time.

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<v Speaker 4>And then the maybe you can have ethically involved trolley problem,

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<v Speaker 4>which I think is the central idea that they created

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<v Speaker 4>this game and into ut your apartment about a trollet department,

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<v Speaker 4>have a whole bunch of people you could say, or

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<v Speaker 4>one person, who do you say?

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<v Speaker 1>What do you do?

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<v Speaker 4>I think that's what created is popular. What makes it

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<v Speaker 4>in the Dura debate since the first game, you've always

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<v Speaker 4>asked it exact question, was Joel right or is Joel

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<v Speaker 4>of philintagonist? It's a really powerful debate to have we

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<v Speaker 4>have the advantage of having that debate from our position

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<v Speaker 4>in society that more or less works. It's imperfect and

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<v Speaker 4>full of problems, but it works. Their entire universe and

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<v Speaker 4>the apocalypse. Like Britney saying their future is unknown, they

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<v Speaker 4>could get infected in the next six seconds. They effected,

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<v Speaker 4>could pop out of nowhere and all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 4>your distance is over. There's a really powerful lens to

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<v Speaker 4>look at it to make these kinds of questions of

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<v Speaker 4>how can someone possibly be.

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<v Speaker 5>Expected to decide.

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<v Speaker 1>So in thinking of the narrative of.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know morality like that's also part of the

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<v Speaker 2>question too, right, which is in this world setting where so.

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<v Speaker 1>Much violence is not just normalized.

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<v Speaker 2>But required and also in some ways I'm sure like dignified, respected, idolized,

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<v Speaker 2>that's all is something we have to call into question.

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<v Speaker 2>We think about the lengths that Abby goes to, that

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<v Speaker 2>Joel goes.

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<v Speaker 1>To, that Melli goes to.

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<v Speaker 2>Is we also have to take any consideration that, especially

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<v Speaker 2>Brawby and Mellie, that they are people that were born

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<v Speaker 2>within this context of like Hoover violence and they don't

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<v Speaker 2>really know. I don't know about Abby, but definitely Ellie

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't know before time, right, I mean that's part of

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<v Speaker 2>the central character. She is born via kind of zombie

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<v Speaker 2>bying situation, so she yeah, and so we think about

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<v Speaker 2>it from that perspective. You know, I don't know, like

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<v Speaker 2>the normalization of violence in the psychology, that there's a

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<v Speaker 2>morality there that by us kind of judging any of

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<v Speaker 2>these characters may based on the morality of our world,

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<v Speaker 2>is doing them a major disservice. But we do that

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, you know, when I work with real

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<v Speaker 2>clients to the part of families where there's.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of violence, or there's a lot of criminal behavior,

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<v Speaker 1>or there's a lot of aggression.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, part of we have to take into consideration

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<v Speaker 2>are those components and not just like I think having

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<v Speaker 2>to the components is I think the head idea of this,

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<v Speaker 2>which is people hate her, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the second season she is the bad guy

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<v Speaker 1>because she's so.

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<v Speaker 2>Myopic in her views, like going after Joel, who we

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<v Speaker 2>love because we know the whole story, right Ali, because

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<v Speaker 2>we know.

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<v Speaker 1>The whole story.

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<v Speaker 2>But with someone like Abby, she's coming from a background

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<v Speaker 2>where all.

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<v Speaker 1>That stuff is very normalized.

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<v Speaker 2>So one that's a part of her morality that we

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<v Speaker 2>have to take into consideration, and then also two back,

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<v Speaker 2>when you live in a world where there are so

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<v Speaker 2>few connections, where there's so much scarcity when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to everything, but also.

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<v Speaker 1>Your support system or a family who you love.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think so her winning that revenge for her dad,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, also connects to me with my Joel made

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<v Speaker 2>the decision he made at the end of the first

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<v Speaker 2>season with Ellie. You know Ellie is meaningful to him. Ellie,

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<v Speaker 2>it is that scarcely mindset around your support system and

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<v Speaker 2>people that matter to you and so, and that's not

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<v Speaker 2>even talking about how Joel already lost the daughter and

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<v Speaker 2>how is also probably having a trauma reaction in that

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<v Speaker 2>moment where I don't even know how much of Joel

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<v Speaker 2>is thinking. Yeah, Like, I think there's a part of

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<v Speaker 2>Joel that punched forward in that moment, and that's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're seeing in the same way that it's your Abby

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<v Speaker 2>and Ellie also have that sort of like fight her

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<v Speaker 2>warrior part that shows up and takes over in these

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<v Speaker 2>moments where they are all at different times rampaging.

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<v Speaker 1>For lack of a better way of putting it, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like I don't think Joel could have made

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<v Speaker 3>a d another decision.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how I feel about it.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like, yeah, he he had finally had a

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<v Speaker 3>purpose again, and he finally had the chance to be

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<v Speaker 3>connected to someone else that you really cared about. And

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like in that moment, in those moments where

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<v Speaker 3>he cause he's off high like he is in his

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<v Speaker 3>fight part, he's not taking ten seconds to have a

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<v Speaker 3>thoughtful decision about am I gonna.

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<v Speaker 1>Kill all these people?

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<v Speaker 2>And you can't take ten seconds when you're in that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of setting where you're going in like the exact

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<v Speaker 2>I think where mumor all.

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<v Speaker 1>Fight and white. You can't think very hard before someone's

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<v Speaker 1>coming at you.

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<v Speaker 2>You gonna find a math like it's all instantaneous responses exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I really feel like Joel, there wasn't something

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<v Speaker 3>else that Joel could have done. I really I really

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<v Speaker 3>believed that about Joel. Was it the right decision? I

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<v Speaker 3>I think that was the only decision for Joel.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and.

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<v Speaker 5>Exactly he was.

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<v Speaker 4>He's shut down to it because the idea of connecting

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<v Speaker 4>to another version is a burden.

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<v Speaker 5>It's not until he sees her as a daughter that.

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<v Speaker 4>Something changes and awakens in him and reactivates the burdens

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<v Speaker 4>I played this game before I became a dad and

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<v Speaker 4>I have.

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<v Speaker 5>Two little girls. Uh so yeah, who.

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<v Speaker 4>My my wife and I showed her this and she

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<v Speaker 4>didn't play the game when I was like, first episode

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<v Speaker 4>is straight up steam for seeing the game like, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>just gonna warn you, you're gonna get wrecked.

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<v Speaker 5>I guess gonna rerecor you, and then.

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<v Speaker 4>Still wrecked me and thinking about it still rough, like

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<v Speaker 4>especially being a dad and girls like I don't think

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<v Speaker 4>Joel had another decision. I think Brandy is right and

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<v Speaker 4>Handa is right. Du could Joel have done something different?

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<v Speaker 4>Taking Joel in context, no, was he right nowtally?

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<v Speaker 6>Morally? Of course not.

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<v Speaker 4>However, who's to say there's no the The really in

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<v Speaker 4>writing of this game is that it's a chance. It's

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<v Speaker 4>a chance, but the only way to make this possible

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<v Speaker 4>cure maybe is to destroy the hopes and get one

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<v Speaker 4>chance to maybe save everybody.

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<v Speaker 5>But how many medical.

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<v Speaker 1>Trials have worked?

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<v Speaker 5>How many who?

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<v Speaker 2>Not?

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<v Speaker 4>Nobody considers that factor into it, but we're led to

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<v Speaker 4>that's the exam and that Triller problem. This couldn't save everybody,

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<v Speaker 4>but Joel has to lose again in a way that

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<v Speaker 4>he can't, and he went offline and his pipe part.

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<v Speaker 4>His dad cart took him back on it had been

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<v Speaker 4>him off and why he kept him Ellie walled up

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<v Speaker 4>cause he's got this teenage daughter.

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<v Speaker 5>He's seeing it.

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<v Speaker 4>He like, nope, nope, nope, shut down, shut down, freeze

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<v Speaker 4>that out. Can't do it this world.

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<v Speaker 5>She's gonna die. I can't connect to that. No, say

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<v Speaker 5>shut down and then go over the clicks.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I also think, like thinking back in on

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<v Speaker 2>that when someone has been shut down in a part

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<v Speaker 2>of themselves. With Joel is the very vulnerable, soft, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>squishy part of him, and so I think, yeah, once

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<v Speaker 2>he reopens up to Ellie and decides like I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Gonna feel something for her.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that just that of course plays a huge

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<v Speaker 2>part in that decision where now I can't lose another daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't take that, I can't handle that. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if he's I don't think he's thinking all that consciously,

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<v Speaker 2>but I do think him opening up to her right

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<v Speaker 2>before that also is a huge part in him going

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<v Speaker 2>after it.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I think it also carries into season too,

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<v Speaker 1>where they're having so much trouble relationally.

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<v Speaker 4>And.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of that is like, yeah, she I think she

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<v Speaker 2>is feeling well. Once she's suspicious, she can smell the.

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<v Speaker 1>Whole shittle yas all over him.

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<v Speaker 2>And then two, I can't imagine she doesn't feel tremendous

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<v Speaker 2>weight on her about being Joel of God, you know

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<v Speaker 2>they're not. They never really figured it out that dynamic.

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<v Speaker 2>They weren't really supposed to have a dynamic. And then

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden they're in the town, in a

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<v Speaker 2>community like it's kind of regular Smagnore in a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of waves that.

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<v Speaker 1>She's never been exposed to.

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<v Speaker 2>He hasn't been a part of in twenty some years,

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<v Speaker 2>and I do feel like he kind of I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think intentionally, but he does throw an expectation on her

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<v Speaker 2>to be something for him that I.

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<v Speaker 1>Do believe even though she wants it. It also stresses her ound.

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<v Speaker 4>You got the personal stresses around, like she's had to

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<v Speaker 4>wall off every work since losing her friend, and you

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<v Speaker 4>realize that each chance she took brings her close to

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<v Speaker 4>the people just because she wants her pain which is

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<v Speaker 4>intall over her and takes her out of her survival

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<v Speaker 4>most that she feels an't necessary, which is necessary to

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<v Speaker 4>get their world to be locked in died in suspicious

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<v Speaker 4>because the next person made view your assets that they

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<v Speaker 4>needed to survive. And at that point, I if we

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<v Speaker 4>all take an honest look at ourselves, how long would

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<v Speaker 4>you go hungry before you stole fo Yeah, I don't

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<v Speaker 4>even take your head.

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<v Speaker 2>Not long?

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<v Speaker 4>Right for those of their parents, how long are your

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<v Speaker 4>children gonna go hungry before you start making some extreme

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<v Speaker 4>decisions finding a different place in your head to go to?

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<v Speaker 5>I know, I mean it's not long those little girls,

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<v Speaker 5>Bryan hungry? Sorry about your real survivor?

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<v Speaker 6>Sorry, like a holler by, you have to come a

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<v Speaker 6>little closer to us.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's a mic in the back are here?

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<v Speaker 5>The question about Bill and Frans sol.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, Bill and Frank?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, cause it shows also a big topic of

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<v Speaker 2>we're not supposed to be by ourselves, right, we need

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<v Speaker 2>other people, whether we like it or not, whether we

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<v Speaker 2>want to or not. And and also we get very

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<v Speaker 2>protective around that and and shut down and act stand offish,

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<v Speaker 2>and well is it Bill or Frank who's the one

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<v Speaker 2>that loves the house? O? Bill, He's like a great

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<v Speaker 2>example of being that, like, I don't need anybody, And

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<v Speaker 2>I think we see that in his pre apocalypse time too,

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<v Speaker 2>like that's a that is a protective part of him,

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<v Speaker 2>but he's very comfortable and that's a persona that he's

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<v Speaker 2>worked up to, and so I do so like I

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<v Speaker 2>think those show in all, all in all, does a

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<v Speaker 2>really good job of showing how people just protect themselves

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<v Speaker 2>against like loneliness, against wanting things that they That's a

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<v Speaker 2>big part of this too, is how can you let

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<v Speaker 2>yourself want things in this kind of scenario, this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of setting. And then if you can't want things, if

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<v Speaker 2>you can't hope, if you can't dream, then why not

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<v Speaker 2>follow your impulses?

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<v Speaker 1>Why not take revenge?

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<v Speaker 5>You know?

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<v Speaker 1>Like what am I worried about getting get environment at

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<v Speaker 1>my job because I want a murder.

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<v Speaker 2>Rampage about like what not in finding a partner, having kids?

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<v Speaker 2>Like there's so little that you can hold on to

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<v Speaker 2>in this world that something like revenge and going full

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<v Speaker 2>loan into that does give you purpose, does give you

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<v Speaker 2>a sense of self and identity. It's not a healthy one, right,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think like that's the course, especially the second season,

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<v Speaker 2>is just training that identity from Joel to Adding to

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<v Speaker 2>La And where does it stop.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it will stop the situation like

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<v Speaker 1>this where there aren't really any.

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<v Speaker 2>Existential consequences or like hope consequences.

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<v Speaker 1>Like dream future planning consequences to do making those choices.

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<v Speaker 2>The canny can you build up like down there there

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<v Speaker 2>there you have an area.

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<v Speaker 5>In society whose incidents and.

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<v Speaker 7>That means in ass how does the narratives your flu

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<v Speaker 7>societies and own biases and comes in traditional hero And

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<v Speaker 7>then I.

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<v Speaker 5>Think it does a brilliant job of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well.

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<v Speaker 4>The Last of Us was my favorite game ever until

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<v Speaker 4>Lessons two came out. You know a lot of people

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<v Speaker 4>got mad because.

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<v Speaker 5>They you know, they frinched Gol, like, how there are

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<v Speaker 5>you rich? See?

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<v Speaker 4>Uh, the male protagonist character that everybody's attached.

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<v Speaker 5>To, how dare you? The neck bears got really angry.

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<v Speaker 4>But it was really in writing to open up what

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<v Speaker 4>the story was really about, which was watching.

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<v Speaker 5>Ellie's true Elliot was.

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<v Speaker 4>Always your character, not job, and watching that dynamic flip

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<v Speaker 4>where you force the audience to flip perspective. You would

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<v Speaker 4>in the game you would have to play as Abby

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<v Speaker 4>for maybe sixty percent of the game, so you don't

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<v Speaker 4>just get the story with one character. You have to

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<v Speaker 4>explore the perspectives of all sides of it. And it

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<v Speaker 4>is powerful to realize that just because one person sees

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<v Speaker 4>something one way, it doesn't meet the other does. And uh,

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<v Speaker 4>even some therapies for one group therapy in particular, they

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<v Speaker 4>mentioned our last panel psychodone is kind of its cost

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<v Speaker 4>the time a little bit.

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<v Speaker 5>But they have one.

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<v Speaker 4>Exercise where they literally have you sit in a groupment

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<v Speaker 4>and you picked out the person who most reminds you

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<v Speaker 4>of the antagonist of the sea. But then the director

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<v Speaker 4>the areas will make you flip, so you have to

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<v Speaker 4>play from their perspective, so you connect and empathize with

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<v Speaker 4>whatever was that creating that person's reactions. In order to

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<v Speaker 4>reproduce it in yourself, must advertize with so flipping that

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<v Speaker 4>dynamic is is huge and it's powerful.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm excited what they're gonna do with is the show?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I think it's a I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a be a challenge to us of how honestly

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<v Speaker 2>ecocentric it can be. Like that's a lot of part

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<v Speaker 2>of our biasses as well, in that I know why

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing what I'm doing, so I must I have.

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<v Speaker 1>A good reason.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like when I A good example of this on

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<v Speaker 2>like Psycone one is when you're driving a traffic I.

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<v Speaker 5>Know why I'm cutting people off because I'm late, and

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<v Speaker 5>I have good.

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<v Speaker 2>Persons to be active like a jerk when i'm driving,

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<v Speaker 2>But you're coming off, how dare you? It's because you're

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<v Speaker 2>a bad person. It's because you don't think about other people,

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<v Speaker 2>because I don't know why they're doing what they're really

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<v Speaker 2>but I know why I am. And so with this too,

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<v Speaker 2>I it ch challenges that highest we can have from

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<v Speaker 2>like an US than ego centric perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I know why I'm killing everybody. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>why Joel's killing everybody, but I can't kill everybody. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think actually, what says a lot about maybe the fact.

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<v Speaker 2>That Joel's in therapy in season two and he has

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<v Speaker 2>worked on a lot of stuff, is that when he

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<v Speaker 2>spoiler does in the very beginning of season two, he

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<v Speaker 2>is inviting it right, like he's he kind of has

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<v Speaker 2>this face of like it finally caught me, like he

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<v Speaker 2>recognizes that he is not the hero, but not in

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<v Speaker 2>some ways it's very self deprecating.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think a lot of ways it's just him

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<v Speaker 1>being very honest, which is I am the.

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<v Speaker 2>Villain of a lot of people's stories, and so this

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<v Speaker 2>girl coming after me and killing me is not She's

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<v Speaker 2>not wrong. I hate obviously, I don't want to happen

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<v Speaker 2>from Ellie, And I think what hurts Ellie and I

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<v Speaker 2>think you're about to talk about, Hannah, is that Ellie

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<v Speaker 2>is also a teenager, which just pumps up the egocentricism

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<v Speaker 2>of I'm right, you're wrong, that person's bad, that person's

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<v Speaker 2>not bad. Like if anyone knows any teenagers, or if

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<v Speaker 2>you've ever been a teenager, and we all know how

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<v Speaker 2>we can get very rigid and very binary about everything.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we see that, like in the social media

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<v Speaker 2>of like how on TikTok everyone has an opinion, everyone's

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00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.640
<v Speaker 2>like thiring morally on her high horse. And I do

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00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.079
<v Speaker 2>think that's an evolution of this idea that I know

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<v Speaker 2>why I'm doing it, you know, and I'm gonna judge

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<v Speaker 2>you because you're doing someone differently instead of trying to

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<v Speaker 2>be in.

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<v Speaker 1>Their own shoes.

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<v Speaker 3>But I don't know if you wanna talk about yeah, La, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I was just gonna say that bringing up that she's

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<v Speaker 3>a teenager also not just the rigidity, but also the

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00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.519
<v Speaker 3>black and white picking, which is pretty similar. But really

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<v Speaker 3>we're really seeing the teenage part of Eli in most

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<v Speaker 3>of the second season, Like I really feel like there

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't Ali didn't really have that much gross in the

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<v Speaker 3>second season. She really is stuck in this. Abby is

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<v Speaker 3>the villain. Abby is the person that I have to

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<v Speaker 3>get to real mad or what I in my grief.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, instead of being instead of being sad and

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<v Speaker 3>grieving who I lost, I am going after someone else

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<v Speaker 3>and that's all that matters, and that's all that I

347
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.680
<v Speaker 3>can focus on because I think also in another way,

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<v Speaker 3>with Ellie.

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00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:28.359
<v Speaker 1>Sh that's what she saw Joel do.

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<v Speaker 3>So also why would we expect that Ellie is not

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<v Speaker 3>gonna go after go after something in the same way

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<v Speaker 3>that she saw.

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00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Joel do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And in some way that's a way for her to

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<v Speaker 1>feeling even close closer than him and aligned with Joel,

356
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<v Speaker 1>is that this is I'm gonna.

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<v Speaker 2>Attack just the way that Joel would because I'm Joel's

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<v Speaker 2>daughter and it's almost like this and honor in him

359
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:55.160
<v Speaker 2>by acting like him, and then also by taking revenge

360
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.960
<v Speaker 2>in his name and not really thinking it all the

361
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<v Speaker 2>way through, Like I think you do see her for

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<v Speaker 2>me to be not just the role thing, but also

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00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:07.079
<v Speaker 2>falling in love, like getting her love reciprocated by her

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00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.720
<v Speaker 2>best friend. All that stuff's going on, Like she's in

365
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:14.160
<v Speaker 2>the moment and and she's not really thinking at all

366
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.599
<v Speaker 2>until we see the very end when she spoiler again

367
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.119
<v Speaker 2>kills that character that's pregnant. I think that's something when

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00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:23.200
<v Speaker 2>you see what we call him the viz like an

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<v Speaker 2>ego death kind of rock bottom moment where she's like,

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00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:30.680
<v Speaker 2>maybe I maybe I am also but back, like this

371
00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.279
<v Speaker 2>is starting to hit a wall where it's not fitting

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<v Speaker 2>the story of creating in my head about who I am,

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<v Speaker 2>about why I'm doing this, and it's really obviously challenges her.

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<v Speaker 2>We see her kind of have and moves from breakdown

375
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<v Speaker 2>in that moment because she is realizing the thing that's

376
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<v Speaker 2>hard for us to realize, which is that, oh, maybe

377
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:51.880
<v Speaker 2>this is more complicated than I thought it was, which

378
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<v Speaker 2>is really hard, Like once again for like a teenager

379
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<v Speaker 2>to be is able to grass depending on their maturity love.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like Ellie raised in the military thing. I

381
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:02.759
<v Speaker 1>don't know how it all she.

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00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:09.160
<v Speaker 4>Is habby Ellie Sorry, ELA's twenty two, Sorry I met Eli, Sorry,

383
00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:10.960
<v Speaker 4>Ely's twenty two, eh.

384
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:12.839
<v Speaker 1>I's nineteen or sixteen?

385
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:15.559
<v Speaker 5>Oh, Ellie, it's twenty two.

386
00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, anyway, do you have a question?

387
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:26.279
<v Speaker 7>Yes's you see what's in Holly Operator.

388
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:30.039
<v Speaker 1>Now.

389
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:32.440
<v Speaker 2>The therapy scene in the first episode of sixty two

390
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:33.119
<v Speaker 2>is wild.

391
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean, one says she's drove, which is kind of

392
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.160
<v Speaker 1>nuts I can imagine, but.

393
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Also the cluster mess that is the dual relationship idea.

394
00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:49.319
<v Speaker 2>So in therapy, one of the ethical ten commandments is

395
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.799
<v Speaker 2>like dual relationships, like I can't be your friend and

396
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.559
<v Speaker 2>your therapist or your like neighbor and therapist, except for

397
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.920
<v Speaker 2>in situations like this, like they's able to use in school.

398
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.240
<v Speaker 2>It's like if you're in a small town and you're

399
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.559
<v Speaker 2>the only therapist, you might not be able to avoid

400
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:07.240
<v Speaker 2>make someone's name working their therapist. So there's some ep

401
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.279
<v Speaker 2>ethical exceptions to that, and I think it would probify

402
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:12.240
<v Speaker 2>if you take up the drinking part of it and

403
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:15.640
<v Speaker 2>all the other parts them having kind of like a

404
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.119
<v Speaker 2>messier dim It makes sense from that.

405
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:26.079
<v Speaker 4>Perspective you got an ethical boundaries, wouldn't reply because at

406
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.480
<v Speaker 4>the small town or other and be bhood and resource.

407
00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:30.400
<v Speaker 5>But It's Gales.

408
00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:36.200
<v Speaker 4>Scenes were amazing about it, and I really liked her

409
00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:40.839
<v Speaker 4>modeling how sitting with Joel and telling him the hard

410
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:47.200
<v Speaker 4>truth annoying flipping. The acting was brilliant, really a brilliancause

411
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.079
<v Speaker 4>she was like, there, I said, it was hard, I'm

412
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.519
<v Speaker 4>hate look what I did.

413
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:54.400
<v Speaker 2>She just.

414
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.880
<v Speaker 4>Flipped right back, got it in front of the This

415
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:02.000
<v Speaker 4>is what happens when you say the hard thing. Nothing

416
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:08.559
<v Speaker 4>what happened, but Joe can't tolerate it even then that

417
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.960
<v Speaker 4>Joel tells the truth and you can see he's shutting down,

418
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:13.599
<v Speaker 4>shutting down, shutting down, yep, which is exactly what I

419
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.480
<v Speaker 4>WI am like if we do it is not ready

420
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:19.279
<v Speaker 4>to share that momen know me what he knows. The

421
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.599
<v Speaker 4>shame and guilty carriers that that part of him that

422
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.640
<v Speaker 4>wanted to refect the daughter showed up, and also they

423
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:25.440
<v Speaker 4>doomed everyone.

424
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.519
<v Speaker 5>That's kind of a lot. It's a lot to carry it.

425
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.440
<v Speaker 5>He doesn't even tell Elliot that year until his last

426
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:39.519
<v Speaker 5>night of her, but seeing her call Joe out and see.

427
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.079
<v Speaker 8>Who I thought?

428
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:43.559
<v Speaker 4>That was a brilliantly redual pair of his character. With

429
00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:48.880
<v Speaker 4>the added publications of I trade therapy.

430
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.839
<v Speaker 2>For me in this and which only movie well, and

431
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.319
<v Speaker 2>also the dual relationship, which is I am your therapist

432
00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.160
<v Speaker 2>and I wanted to fold my uncle.

433
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.279
<v Speaker 1>Detachment, and also you killed my husband.

434
00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:07.839
<v Speaker 2>And even though I and she does a great job

435
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:09.519
<v Speaker 2>of naming mat like she's really trying.

436
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I can see where hers as is a therapist, is really.

437
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Trying to stay ethical in a wild, wild wild context.

438
00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:22.359
<v Speaker 1>And maybe her drinking is her trying to.

439
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Be duel, Like I'm gonna go out as a freak

440
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.160
<v Speaker 2>on this guy that I see today, So maybe if

441
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:27.640
<v Speaker 2>I take.

442
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.720
<v Speaker 1>A little end job, I won't be a raging viewer

443
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:35.400
<v Speaker 1>when I see him. And how ess actually with.

444
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Joel in the back that he operates from such a

445
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:40.920
<v Speaker 2>place of shame it is, it is like an impossible

446
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.359
<v Speaker 2>situation that they're in together, Like I think they would

447
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:45.119
<v Speaker 2>do it, Like if you're saying men like best as

448
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.480
<v Speaker 2>they can considering living in resource, but to have to

449
00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:51.119
<v Speaker 2>event sit in front of me and vulnerable in front

450
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.960
<v Speaker 2>of your therapist that you know also might have me

451
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.599
<v Speaker 2>with you for the same reason that you feel bad

452
00:23:57.640 --> 00:23:59.359
<v Speaker 2>about yourself and the things I have to work on,

453
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Like that's it impossible, That's such an impossible circumstance.

454
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Any think she tries having it and as good as

455
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.039
<v Speaker 1>you can, and.

456
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.079
<v Speaker 2>You probably would have to name more on your own

457
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:15.559
<v Speaker 2>self just close a lot more of your emotions maybe

458
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.440
<v Speaker 2>in that space, like it would be a mess here

459
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:20.759
<v Speaker 2>dynamic because you couldn't be as detached and as cool

460
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.200
<v Speaker 2>and calm and collected and unbiased.

461
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:27.680
<v Speaker 1>You just can't. And so her naming it was good

462
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 1>and it.

463
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Was hard a lot because I was like, Oh, I

464
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.319
<v Speaker 2>don't know how you've been doing.

465
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:35.400
<v Speaker 3>Differently about necessarily Yeah, I feel like it would be

466
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.640
<v Speaker 3>wild to be a Gale's shoes, like when I like

467
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:42.799
<v Speaker 3>even the idea of her being a therapist during that time, and.

468
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.359
<v Speaker 1>Just think, And it made me think a little bit about.

469
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:49.680
<v Speaker 3>The pandemic and what it was like to be a

470
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.480
<v Speaker 3>therapist during the pandemic when you're experiencing the same things

471
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 3>as your clients are experiencing, And how my relationship changed

472
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:00.680
<v Speaker 3>with some of my clients in a good way, not

473
00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.160
<v Speaker 3>in a bad way, but it would changed. It changed

474
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:06.920
<v Speaker 3>because they could see my apartment. It changed because we

475
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:08.759
<v Speaker 3>were most sad about the same thing. Like it was

476
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:10.759
<v Speaker 3>a little bit it was a little bit different in

477
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.480
<v Speaker 3>a and but also it was a good way to

478
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:15.240
<v Speaker 3>have a connection. So I don't even know if I

479
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:17.599
<v Speaker 3>what I would do. I don't even know if I

480
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.720
<v Speaker 3>would tell anybody I was a therapist, like, like just

481
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.000
<v Speaker 3>because I feel like I really don't. Yeah, it would

482
00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:24.559
<v Speaker 3>just be wild.

483
00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:25.359
<v Speaker 1>It would be wild.

484
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.559
<v Speaker 3>I think eventually I'd want to help people just because

485
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:30.039
<v Speaker 3>that's who I am. But but yeah, that was just

486
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:31.119
<v Speaker 3>something I wanted to burn out.

487
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:33.559
<v Speaker 5>And it's the skill you're having the moorsal mee. So

488
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:35.960
<v Speaker 5>you're gonna keep doing it in front of a way

489
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:36.200
<v Speaker 5>to do it.

490
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I s getting to be during the strong time,

491
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.200
<v Speaker 2>so it's probably like sign up, sign up.

492
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:43.960
<v Speaker 5>But then I how we got more qustions?

493
00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:46.039
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, a lot.

494
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:55.000
<v Speaker 1>The Free construt SA said, how did the new agreements

495
00:25:55.039 --> 00:26:03.240
<v Speaker 1>both been constructive and unimating force? I don't know. It's

496
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 1>a I'm thinking, I promise.

497
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:10.680
<v Speaker 4>I think they show revisit that absolutely a destructive force,

498
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:15.000
<v Speaker 4>but they also show it as the internal connection to

499
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.759
<v Speaker 4>a love lost in a very powerful real way, or

500
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.079
<v Speaker 4>where they're surrounded so much. Why lost and the only

501
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.799
<v Speaker 4>things that ground you back to your humanity are the

502
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:25.680
<v Speaker 4>connections to the things that make you feel like you

503
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:31.400
<v Speaker 4>and in extreme circumstances like wars or other things, whether

504
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:33.440
<v Speaker 4>people carry around the pictures of their loved one or

505
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.640
<v Speaker 4>their girlfriend or whoever, knowing that there is somewhere for

506
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.599
<v Speaker 4>me to find my way back to myself. It's only

507
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:43.599
<v Speaker 4>again the best record stories like or the readings, for example,

508
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.000
<v Speaker 4>where we get an example of someone going back and

509
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:47.759
<v Speaker 4>realizing that.

510
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:51.519
<v Speaker 5>Not only is home not the same because life we

511
00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.599
<v Speaker 5>don't about you, but you're not the same.

512
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:58.519
<v Speaker 4>And seeing the impact that proto was amazing, but also

513
00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:01.759
<v Speaker 4>seeing in this story that people, even in the sucustance,

514
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:04.400
<v Speaker 4>they don't nothing is going back to.

515
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.079
<v Speaker 5>Be the same. Ever again, they still keep connections cause

516
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:08.799
<v Speaker 5>the what they lost.

517
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:12.960
<v Speaker 4>Joe KEEPS's watch, but Eli pieps watched. Ellie keeps Joey's gone,

518
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.960
<v Speaker 4>Elias stays connected to Joel, Joe Stay's connected to his daughter.

519
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.200
<v Speaker 4>Joel and his brother's stay connected. People still get married

520
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.720
<v Speaker 4>Bill and Frankville are other questions, like we see oils

521
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.920
<v Speaker 4>of examples of people staying connected to humanity.

522
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.920
<v Speaker 5>The story is called Elasted the Boss for a.

523
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:35.119
<v Speaker 2>Reason, and I say agree, I think that's also where

524
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:36.920
<v Speaker 2>the real I don't know, like are we going on

525
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:39.680
<v Speaker 2>ram pages because we don't wanna feel our agree? So

526
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:42.880
<v Speaker 2>if I have an active mission, I don't have to.

527
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:45.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't have time to be sad kind of have

528
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.559
<v Speaker 2>the space to be sad. I get to just pop

529
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.880
<v Speaker 2>off and that's something I can focus on, which is why,

530
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:54.200
<v Speaker 2>like I think you do see those narratives continuing cause

531
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:54.759
<v Speaker 2>people like.

532
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.400
<v Speaker 1>People now don't know how to agree.

533
00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.240
<v Speaker 2>You probably can you imagine that even an art start right,

534
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:04.440
<v Speaker 2>it's like ongoing traumatic grief and being able to like absorb.

535
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:04.920
<v Speaker 1>That a whole time.

536
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Like, so people can't do that in the best of

537
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.839
<v Speaker 2>circumstances a lot of a lot a lot of the time,

538
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.200
<v Speaker 2>and so in this one, I.

539
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Don't even know it. Bed fascinating.

540
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Like generations, if like their generations of this society continue,

541
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.440
<v Speaker 2>what they might start to do to grief in terms

542
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:27.519
<v Speaker 2>of rituals uh leaning ceremony, Like their relationship to grief

543
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:31.200
<v Speaker 2>is gonna have to be you really change because so

544
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:32.680
<v Speaker 2>much of their society.

545
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Now is dictated by grief and grieving the life that was,

546
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:38.680
<v Speaker 1>the life that will believe all that stuff?

547
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:41.440
<v Speaker 5>Question, Oh yeah, I.

548
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:44.519
<v Speaker 2>Won't.

549
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:47.920
<v Speaker 5>I don't care since when I'll go I'll go close.

550
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:53.319
<v Speaker 8>I mean, so you know that ear and stuff in

551
00:28:53.519 --> 00:29:01.400
<v Speaker 8>se game early? Are you going, sous most?

552
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

553
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:05.240
<v Speaker 5>Where else?

554
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:10.079
<v Speaker 3>I uh, she was gone.

555
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:20.519
<v Speaker 5>Fo ah, yeah.

556
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:23.119
<v Speaker 1>Where was?

557
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:30.200
<v Speaker 5>I feel like the most care and you're you're interest.

558
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:34.640
<v Speaker 2>A fool.

559
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 1>Say the last part again, m fool fool. I'm sorry,

560
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:42.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm having a hard time with the last part.

561
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:46.359
<v Speaker 5>The uh uh the dry right, Elli bikes your brothers

562
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:46.799
<v Speaker 5>all the time?

563
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:48.359
<v Speaker 1>First that I be I kind of have a one

564
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:49.279
<v Speaker 1>of the non missions.

565
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you got any of what you're interesting in the game.

566
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:55.599
<v Speaker 4>What the show is probably gonna take you no seasons

567
00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:59.759
<v Speaker 4>to get to, right, at least the long game is

568
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:03.400
<v Speaker 4>see you see a lot more growth out of Aby

569
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.519
<v Speaker 4>in the game than you do have. It takes a

570
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:08.559
<v Speaker 4>long time, and even at the end, I don't know

571
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:13.839
<v Speaker 4>that Allie until the beach team. Maybe after they have

572
00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:16.839
<v Speaker 4>their fight. Yeah, I don't even in school and.

573
00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:28.000
<v Speaker 9>He s at moment you can find m d right

574
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:31.519
<v Speaker 9>and going home and finding Deva out there, yeah, maybe.

575
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:35.240
<v Speaker 5>Alone the biggest year's.

576
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:39.759
<v Speaker 4>Right, I think if I'm remembering that the game, right,

577
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.359
<v Speaker 4>was it is it left that picks up Abby or

578
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:50.759
<v Speaker 4>does it every w you Camembert right, that's right, cause

579
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:52.920
<v Speaker 4>if the growth is Abby's trying to get to the left.

580
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:55.960
<v Speaker 5>It's also there with her right. Yeah, so you see

581
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:56.839
<v Speaker 5>love grows.

582
00:30:56.839 --> 00:30:58.720
<v Speaker 4>So they don't their mirror images of each other, but

583
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:00.960
<v Speaker 4>they're moving in the opposite directions.

584
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:05.039
<v Speaker 5>Kind of like Bill and Joel, like they started kind

585
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:05.160
<v Speaker 5>of the.

586
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:07.759
<v Speaker 4>Same places where they go in totally different directions. This

587
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.279
<v Speaker 4>game is full of mirrors of the people having the

588
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.400
<v Speaker 4>opportunity to look at how you'll like you go if

589
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.839
<v Speaker 4>you like connection back and Abbie, let's go up her

590
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.480
<v Speaker 4>and stops trying to fight Ellie long again. I don't

591
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:24.839
<v Speaker 4>know the start of the start of the game maybe,

592
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.400
<v Speaker 4>but she's being hunted by Ellie now who does not

593
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:33.079
<v Speaker 4>grow until that fight at the beach in Santa Mounta

594
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:36.160
<v Speaker 4>are releases. It's a really powerful story to look at

595
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.680
<v Speaker 4>that example. It's a great point that they are total

596
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:43.359
<v Speaker 4>mirrors of each other. You're seeing that poison that the raging.

597
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:48.359
<v Speaker 1>Comes you, will you have a goot? Spend more minutes?

598
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:50.720
<v Speaker 2>And there are any other questions I just wanna make

599
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:55.559
<v Speaker 2>sure maybe rooms anywhere s thoughts or questions, Okay, I

600
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.079
<v Speaker 2>don't know, trying to think if there are any other

601
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.000
<v Speaker 2>points wanted to articulate.

602
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:00.960
<v Speaker 1>There's I want to say about grief.

603
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:03.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, there was something that I wanted to say

604
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:06.839
<v Speaker 3>more about grief. I think something else that we see

605
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.400
<v Speaker 3>in a world like this is that grief doesn't feel

606
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:14.119
<v Speaker 3>like action, anger, revenge.

607
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.200
<v Speaker 1>That feels like action, That feels like something that I

608
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:17.519
<v Speaker 1>can do.

609
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:19.599
<v Speaker 3>And I think when people are so shut down, it's

610
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.839
<v Speaker 3>so overwhelmed, they'll lean into something that feels like, at

611
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:26.680
<v Speaker 3>least I'm doing something about this. At least I'm fighting.

612
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.519
<v Speaker 3>At least I'm doing something. And so I think that's

613
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:33.279
<v Speaker 3>another way that people pull back from their grief and

614
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 3>go into more action brand and things that they're doing.

615
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.680
<v Speaker 3>Like I'll give you an example from a client that

616
00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:41.400
<v Speaker 3>I've had before.

617
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:44.079
<v Speaker 1>So I have couples, right, So I work with couples

618
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:44.720
<v Speaker 1>and families.

619
00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:48.799
<v Speaker 3>I have a couple people that will, after maybe like

620
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:51.599
<v Speaker 3>five or six sessions, let's send me an email and

621
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:53.920
<v Speaker 3>say they're just gonna date each other for a little while.

622
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.000
<v Speaker 3>They're not gonna do couples that are banning Moore. They're

623
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:57.960
<v Speaker 3>just gonna date them. They're gonna date each.

624
00:32:57.799 --> 00:32:58.680
<v Speaker 5>Other for a little while.

625
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:03.160
<v Speaker 3>And that's when those examples of they can't be in it.

626
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:05.920
<v Speaker 3>They're not ready to be in it, they're not ready

627
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.559
<v Speaker 3>to look at the things they have to look at.

628
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.359
<v Speaker 3>Because again, like I said in the Thunderbolts panels that

629
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:11.319
<v Speaker 3>we did earlier.

630
00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:13.279
<v Speaker 1>The only way to trauma is through.

631
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.319
<v Speaker 2>And so wanted to do on the dating is like

632
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:21.440
<v Speaker 2>a restart act oriented And I also say too, and

633
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, I kind of like a get a moment

634
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:26.599
<v Speaker 2>from watching traina side oh so ready too that I

635
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.119
<v Speaker 2>think is very unclear about maybe even talking about the

636
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Abby thing and only thing too is how much we

637
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:36.920
<v Speaker 2>romanticize the idea of closure. That's something I see all

638
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.640
<v Speaker 2>the time working with regular stringular people as clients, and

639
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.559
<v Speaker 2>how we idealize and romanticize this idea of a closure.

640
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Once I do this thing, once I kill Jewel, I

641
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.000
<v Speaker 2>won't feel like the sinner. And I think for even

642
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:58.200
<v Speaker 2>like someone like Abby Ellie's that the next wave is

643
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:01.279
<v Speaker 2>kind of almost trauma with another and this kind of

644
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:02.920
<v Speaker 2>next existential.

645
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Breakdown is, oh, I did this thing that I've put

646
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:06.039
<v Speaker 1>all my time and.

647
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Energy in and I don't necessarily feel any different or

648
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.079
<v Speaker 2>better or the feelings of having or feel here or

649
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:18.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe now that the mission is over all I have less.

650
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Now are the ways that I feel.

651
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.039
<v Speaker 2>And something I try to encourage everyone I work with

652
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:29.079
<v Speaker 2>and also myself is the sneaky seduction, the temptation of

653
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:32.360
<v Speaker 2>this idea of closure and that I just have to

654
00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:35.159
<v Speaker 2>do this thing, or I have to have this talk

655
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.960
<v Speaker 2>with my ex, or I have to finally have this

656
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:40.960
<v Speaker 2>out with my dad. And then once I do that thing,

657
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:43.880
<v Speaker 2>I will just oo. I'll mean light is a federal

658
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.719
<v Speaker 2>I'll have no problem. So I'll was totally self factualized.

659
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Then I could move on with my life because also

660
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:52.760
<v Speaker 2>I think what is sad about the LA thing, for example,

661
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:55.360
<v Speaker 2>and like relations with Dina, the fact that DNA is.

662
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Pregnant, is that there is.

663
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Another patch to take and the all and like build

664
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.199
<v Speaker 2>a life that is positive, that could need something to

665
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:09.599
<v Speaker 2>her and that has the future right and the story

666
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:12.039
<v Speaker 2>that it seems like Elie has is I can't start.

667
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:15.480
<v Speaker 1>That life until I've closed this chapter.

668
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Until I've killed all people I gotta kill, and I

669
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:22.280
<v Speaker 2>work with people have been the same idea with themselves

670
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:22.719
<v Speaker 2>all the time.

671
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.719
<v Speaker 1>If I can't, I can't move forward until this thing

672
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:26.239
<v Speaker 1>has happened.

673
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:30.679
<v Speaker 2>And how much that limits our life Honestly, you can

674
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:34.320
<v Speaker 2>limits our perspective. And then also it keeps us it

675
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.480
<v Speaker 2>keeps our development in the hands of usually other people,

676
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and other things like we're not empowering ourselves, like I

677
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:43.880
<v Speaker 2>can make a choice no matter what. And with someone

678
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.400
<v Speaker 2>in like Ella's positions and adding too, like I can

679
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:50.320
<v Speaker 2>only feel this way as I get this certain reaction

680
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.719
<v Speaker 2>or this certain oundcom that and bovet other people and

681
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.719
<v Speaker 2>all the delomers who actually aren't in my control. And

682
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:00.159
<v Speaker 2>how disempowering that is, even in these situations where it

683
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:03.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't look as powering because they're making so much, so

684
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:05.760
<v Speaker 2>many choices, it makings to be acting and being so

685
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:11.360
<v Speaker 2>like powerful and dangerous and whatever it's it like. It

686
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.079
<v Speaker 2>is a Jefson, It is a commersonal and ideas that.

687
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.880
<v Speaker 4>I really encourage your people to sit up and not

688
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:21.119
<v Speaker 4>be able to stop the universe. The universe continues to

689
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.400
<v Speaker 4>move on and the innutrians of all times. Your story

690
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:26.840
<v Speaker 4>is not the most to work onstor but it's really

691
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:30.119
<v Speaker 4>hard to tell yourself that I feel this way so

692
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:31.159
<v Speaker 4>I deserve justice.

693
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:34.559
<v Speaker 5>But the way this story shows all the layers and

694
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:38.039
<v Speaker 5>complications and the costs of limiting your focus to that.

695
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:40.920
<v Speaker 4>I love, love, love to talk back at again because

696
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:45.800
<v Speaker 4>literally director understood the uh assign what she was saying.

697
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:48.679
<v Speaker 5>We show at Ella every opportunity.

698
00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:51.000
<v Speaker 4>Ellie has an opportunity to take an offering from this

699
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.599
<v Speaker 4>path and have a better life like we see the

700
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:58.239
<v Speaker 4>Bill and Frank, like we see being a offering from

701
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.079
<v Speaker 4>over and over again. I love being scared of her,

702
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.000
<v Speaker 4>but she's such an import of oil. It continuing to

703
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.599
<v Speaker 4>like I'll respond to this darkness, but it's not going

704
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:09.840
<v Speaker 4>to take you. And you see it over and over

705
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.679
<v Speaker 4>and my Jo's brother's name is maybe you.

706
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:16.519
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm king Tommy Tony Tony to thank you Tommy.

707
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:18.639
<v Speaker 4>You see, Tony and his wife were like, it's boring

708
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:21.639
<v Speaker 4>that darkness the way like, but we can't keep doing this,

709
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.559
<v Speaker 4>like we have to just set our mission and hold

710
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:28.480
<v Speaker 4>to it that it's to move like ful, all.

711
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:30.480
<v Speaker 5>These bad things happen are happening all the time. I

712
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:31.719
<v Speaker 5>don't know which one's works.

713
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.519
<v Speaker 4>Things would neither do nor bad, but thinking makes them so.

714
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:37.920
<v Speaker 4>It's remains true to see if in the story over

715
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.239
<v Speaker 4>and over that if you march, you lost in your harea,

716
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:43.679
<v Speaker 4>her will get stuck in a mold.

717
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.440
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't suit you to do and suit at that moment,

718
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.280
<v Speaker 5>but if you don't recognize the moment has changed you.

719
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:53.320
<v Speaker 2>To say stuff, yeah, even just recognizing that we always

720
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:57.840
<v Speaker 2>can make the choice to move on, like the objective

721
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.599
<v Speaker 2>choice like that as the bull it's not as easy

722
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 2>as like I'm just gonna move on, cause we think

723
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:04.920
<v Speaker 2>that moving on is I won't have these feelings and

724
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.280
<v Speaker 2>or I won't have this trauma and that's like going

725
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:10.920
<v Speaker 2>back to the closure I do. But it's insensing like

726
00:38:11.079 --> 00:38:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I can act as if I'm moving on and what

727
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:14.679
<v Speaker 2>does that look like?

728
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.960
<v Speaker 1>And you're like, you're saying, like do you not? In

729
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:17.960
<v Speaker 1>the second season, she's.

730
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Getting all these opportunities to go different around even Jesse.

731
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Jesse's like the active parts of the news.

732
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Like we don't have to do this, like you can

733
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:30.599
<v Speaker 2>just I don't know, do something else. And she's like, no, no, no,

734
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I can't move on from this. And it's a sad

735
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:36.119
<v Speaker 2>thing to realize, like we all can have the opportunity

736
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:39.440
<v Speaker 2>to like choose to may getive a choice, choose to

737
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:42.760
<v Speaker 2>move on and choose to work on why we feel

738
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:43.280
<v Speaker 2>like we can't.

739
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:47.280
<v Speaker 1>So we only have I think a few more minutes.

740
00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:53.199
<v Speaker 1>Any other last points you want to make, any other last.

741
00:38:53.079 --> 00:39:02.280
<v Speaker 4>Questions, Let's say a short answer, what's your life, Benjamin?

742
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:03.480
<v Speaker 1>How dare you?

743
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:05.599
<v Speaker 2>I think if I want anyone to come boys from

744
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:07.559
<v Speaker 2>this is that I don't think there is a writer.

745
00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:14.480
<v Speaker 5>It's their heads. Did you ever about apples? Is the

746
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:19.079
<v Speaker 5>people you all? In context? What's your writers? A different class?

747
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.840
<v Speaker 5>Was your right in order context? But think it's one

748
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:26.280
<v Speaker 5>of those in larger contexts such a complicated Russian less

749
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:27.199
<v Speaker 5>and such a mean you're.

750
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:31.599
<v Speaker 1>In the property. Well, if you enjoyed what you heard today,

751
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Like I said, we have.

752
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:36.440
<v Speaker 2>A podcast, Comfort Psychology, you can fight us anywhere Spotify,

753
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts anywhere. And we've been going on how we're

754
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.239
<v Speaker 2>on our if season or were We just released an

755
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:47.800
<v Speaker 2>episode on Big Fish, Moonstruck, Thunderbolts like the cover, Like

756
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:50.880
<v Speaker 2>every genre, we don't just do superhero fakes.

757
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:52.679
<v Speaker 1>We don't just do sci fi stuff.

758
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:53.639
<v Speaker 5>We do everything.

759
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:55.679
<v Speaker 1>And so if you found this interesting and you wanna

760
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:57.519
<v Speaker 1>learn more, please find us everywhere.

761
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:00.599
<v Speaker 2>We're also on Instagram, Facebook, and take tack apop from

762
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Psychology and yeah, if anyone want to set any cancels, however,

763
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:07.440
<v Speaker 2>pen w the trough or capstack or capstick, especially if

764
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:09.400
<v Speaker 2>you ask a question you want to reward you.

765
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Alright, thank you everyone for showing us. Maybe