WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:05.440 It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBSY, Boston's Radio. 2 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:10.320 Well, welcome back everyone, Thanks very much, Carol, and we 3 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:13.320 moved to the second hour tonight, nine o'clock and we're 4 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:17.559 going to talk with Boston City Councilor Ed Flynn. For 5 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:21.399 a long time council of Flynn has talking about some 6 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:25.239 ethics reform at the Boston City Council. I'm suggesting there 7 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:29.199 should be ethics reform throughout Boston City Hall. Ed Flynn, 8 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:30.679 welcome back to Nightside. How are you. 9 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:33.399 I'm doing well, Dan, It's great to be with you. 10 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:35.759 It's great to be with your listening audience as well. 11 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:36.479 Well. 12 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:41.960 I really appreciate the way you have conducted yourself over 13 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:44.560 over your career and of course over your when your 14 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:50.600 dad was mayor. This we've got some we've had some problems. 15 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:56.200 This is the second city councilor that has really, I 16 00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:00.399 think disgraced the council. And we're talking about Boston City 17 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:05.480 Councilor Tania Fernandez Anderson. It was interesting The Globe today, 18 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.879 I think described her in their front page article as 19 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:15.280 an embattled counselor. And I just think that that's an interesting, 20 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:21.920 uh choice of adjective to describe the situation that she 21 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.319 finds herself in. I mean she she apparently has agreed, 22 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:32.239 has has agreed to plead guilty. She's not been sentenced yet, 23 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:34.840 but she could be facing up to a year and 24 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:39.439 a day in jail under the under the agreement. That 25 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:43.280 should not reflect on other members of the City Council, 26 00:01:43.560 --> 00:01:45.680 but it does. Would you agree? 27 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.719 And Dan, I definitely agree. It should not reflect on us, 28 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:54.400 but it certainly does. And I was at three events 29 00:01:54.519 --> 00:02:00.319 last night and people coming up to me and asking 30 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:03.359 me about the case, and they were saying, well, Ed, 31 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:06.280 what is the city Council going to do about it? 32 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:11.159 You know, we don't want the status quo? Ed, what 33 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:15.680 changes are you making? How are you going to improve 34 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:18.479 the ethics on the city council. This is a poor 35 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:22.000 reflection on the city of Boston, the residents of Boston, 36 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:25.039 Dan so ys to answer you directly, It's a reflection 37 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:28.520 on every residence of the City of Boston, whether we 38 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:30.840 like it or not. It is a reflection on us, 39 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:33.120 especially elected officials as well. 40 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:37.719 So what can be done? When you think about ethics, 41 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:42.960 you sort of draw the line between ethics and a 42 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:52.479 criminal act and Obviously the councilor, Tanya Fernandez Anderson was 43 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:57.199 indicted and now she has pled guilty, apparently to this 44 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:03.759 sort of payoff system where she gave she gave a raise, 45 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:07.719 as I understand the charge to a relative, but with 46 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.680 the understanding that part of that thirteen thousand dollars raise 47 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:14.759 that she gave to the relative would be kicked back. 48 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:18.680 My question is why are city councilors employing relatives. 49 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:23.919 Well, they're not allowed to dan by law. She hired 50 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:28.639 her a relative anyway, and maybe the relative didn't have 51 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:32.759 the same last name. I don't know exactly what the 52 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:37.319 circumstance was. It's going back several years. But by law, 53 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.199 you're not able to hire your relative. 54 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:42.319 How did they define relative? In other words, obviously a 55 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:45.560 member of your immediate family as a relative. What about 56 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:48.400 if I'm your brother in law and I need a job. 57 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.719 Am I a relative as your brother in law? 58 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:54.400 I believe so. I believe that would disqualify you from 59 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:59.000 working for a city councilor who is a member of 60 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:01.159 the family, whether it's a brother in law or sister 61 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:05.319 in law. But I think that would preclude you from 62 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:07.159 working in a city council's office. 63 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:11.919 So how how is that then at this point without 64 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:15.159 the ethics reform that I guess you're looking for, how 65 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.720 is that monitored? Or who's in charge? I mean you 66 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.199 see someone in their office and there they have a 67 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:29.680 different last name. Uh, and are they supposed to prove it? 68 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:31.959 Who has the burden of proof? Is the burden of 69 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:36.839 proof on the the counselor that that they have not 70 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:40.759 had any relatives on their staff? How does how does 71 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:42.759 that work? I mean, how does that happen? I guess 72 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:43.480 is what I'm saying. 73 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:49.759 Well, it's not. It's not necessarily monitored as as strictly 74 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:53.959 as as it could be. And you know when an 75 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.680 elected official does. When the elected official is sworn in, 76 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:03.360 they signed documents saying that they would not hire relatives, 77 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.839 and they understand what the rules are. And if you 78 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:11.839 have a different last name, you know, it can be 79 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:13.680 challenging to prove otherwise. 80 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:16.800 No, I've never been an elected official, and god knows 81 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.279 the people of Massachusetts, I'm sure would be appalled at 82 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.519 the possibility of me being an elected official in Massachusetts. 83 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:24.560 But I would think from a point of view of 84 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:28.759 an elected official, it would be good to have an 85 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:33.439 ethical rule because as long as you had that ethical rule, 86 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:37.000 you can say to some cousin who says, jeez, i'm 87 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:39.519 kind of hitting on tough times here, I wouldn't mind. 88 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:41.439 They're doing a little work for you if you could 89 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.439 find me a spot on your staff. 90 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:45.040 Right. 91 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:51.879 It gives the elected official not only the obligation, but 92 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.240 it kind of gives them the ability to say to 93 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:57.560 that relative, gee, you know I was up to me. 94 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:01.079 But it's a different story. But I'm precluded by by 95 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:04.839 I assume it's as simple it's a city council regulation 96 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:08.399 that does that, or is that a City of Boston regulation. 97 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:16.000 That the city council regulation? A city councilor cannot hire 98 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:19.399 someone from their immediate family and I do know that's 99 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:21.319 sister in law or brother in law. 100 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:24.839 Okay, So how long has that been on the books? 101 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:28.120 Is if that's on the books, it should be enforced. 102 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.720 Was that I assume there must have been a time 103 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:32.519 when that wasn't on the books. 104 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:37.839 Yeah, it's been on the books for a while, and 105 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:41.360 it is. It has been enforced in the past under 106 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:48.040 various scenarios. But each city councilor knows clearly that that's 107 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:50.240 against the rule, and you cannot do that. 108 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:52.959 Okay, let's do this. We'll take a break. I want 109 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:54.839 to come back and talk about it. And I also 110 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:58.600 want to talk this particular counselor. And I don't want 111 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:03.000 to dance on anyone's grave. But she's been very controversial 112 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:07.279 even today at the at city Hall. I watched some 113 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:11.319 of the reporting on the local news to and she 114 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:15.959 doesn't seem at all ashamed of this. She was very 115 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:20.319 overtly arrogant to some of the reporters. She picked which 116 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:25.000 reporters she would talk to. She hasn't actually announced she's 117 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.839 announced an intention to resign, but she hasn't given a 118 00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:33.279 date by which she will resigned. Do you when I 119 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.040 get back, I want to ask you about that. And again, 120 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.680 I'm not looking to, you know, kick someone when they're down. 121 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.120 That's not my style. But I was kind of appalled 122 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:46.040 by the demeanor that she appeared to strike. I was 123 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:49.040 watching some of the newscast tonight and it seemed to 124 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:54.879 me inconsistent with with her situation, with her circumstance. If 125 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.560 you get my drift, we'll come back with Boston City 126 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.279 Councilor Ed Flynn, And I'd also like to hear from 127 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.079 residents not only of Boston, but in the surrounding area. 128 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.160 I don't think it's too much to ask elected officials 129 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:10.759 that they don't put their own relatives on the payroll. Uh. 130 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:15.879 And it's also not too much to ask elected officials, 131 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.759 UH if they do ever elective or anyone in the payroll, 132 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.160 don't give them a raise and then expect to get 133 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.040 a kickback in cash in a bathroom, which is what 134 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:32.799 Fernandez Anderson I believe has has played guilty to. That's 135 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.919 that was the primary allegation for which he was indicted. 136 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:39.559 We'll talk with Ed Flynn and you if you'd like 137 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:42.440 six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven, 138 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.639 nine thirty And if you are a Boston resident, you 139 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:47.919 know Ed Flynn's done a good job for the city 140 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:50.159 of Boston. Wouldn't be a bad idea to give us 141 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.480 a call and uh and give him a pat on 142 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:55.600 the back, because frankly, we need more Ed Flynn's in 143 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.559 the Boston City Council. In my humble opinion, more people 144 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.759 like Ed Flynn, longtime Boston residents who are there for 145 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.039 the right reason. Back on night said, right after. 146 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:09.519 This, it's Night Side Boston's news radio. 147 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:17.080 We're talking with Boston City Councilor Ed Flynn, and we've we've, 148 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:23.919 we've you know, uh, the I was watching. I don't 149 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:26.440 know if you saw any of her demeanor today the 150 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.440 city councilor who is now you know facing apparently is 151 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.039 going to plead guilty, has signed an agreement to plead guilty, 152 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:37.840 and it's facing actual jail time for you know, what 153 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:43.399 you would say is a fairly craven exercise of not 154 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:49.120 only authority over a subordinate but also, you know, something 155 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:51.240 that a politician should not be doing. I mean, she 156 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:54.360 should have, she should not. She does not necessarily need 157 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:59.120 to know all the rules and regulations of the Boston 158 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:02.120 City councilor the What she did was wrong in my opinion, 159 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:07.759 and she walked around there today like she almost had 160 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.720 something to be proud of. Did you did you watch 161 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:14.440 any of that today play out outside of the chamber 162 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:15.919 or no. I don't want to put you on the 163 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.679 spot here, but I just want to find out if 164 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:21.720 what I saw on television you may have seen yourself. 165 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:26.159 Dan, I didn't see any of it. I didn't see 166 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:27.919 any of any of it play out. I didn't see 167 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.720 the television stations. I did hear about it, but I 168 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:33.519 didn't witness it myself. 169 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:36.120 Okay, last last question before we get to start to 170 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.600 get the phone calls. Do you know when she's going 171 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:41.720 to resign? Is she just going to hang in there 172 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:44.120 as long as she can until the court date. 173 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:50.960 No, I think she's going to resign in the immediate future. 174 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:55.200 I would I would expect that she would resign in 175 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:59.159 the next seven days, although she hasn't committed. 176 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.320 Twenty things is I think that in order to have 177 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:06.039 a special election in that district, if she can hang on, 178 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:11.200 I think to like May seventh or something like that, 179 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:13.600 then there would be no special election, and even when 180 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:16.000 she vacates the seat, the people in that district would 181 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.919 not have representation. You're I'm sure you're aware of that 182 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:21.639 loophole in the law. They would not have a special 183 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:25.799 election that close to an election because it would be 184 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.840 a lot of money to have somebody serve for two 185 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:30.919 or three months. That's apparently the underlying reason for that. 186 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.320 Yeah, that's accurate, Dan. So I think she would have 187 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.720 to resign by mid mid May for there to be 188 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.759 a special election, and then so there would be literally 189 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:49.519 two elections in that short period of time. So it'd 190 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:54.159 be basically like July and August and then September and November. 191 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:58.039 So what other reforms ethics reforms are you proposing and 192 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.440 what sort of reaction are you getting from it? Colleagues, 193 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:04.200 give us some examples that people will understand that, in 194 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:06.399 your opinion, need to be adopted by the city council. 195 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:13.039 Well, Dan, several months ago, I proposed having a standalone 196 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.639 ethics committee like the State House does. The mass House 197 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:21.960 of Representatives has a ethics committee. I would want one 198 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:25.600 for the Boston City Council. I propose this, and my 199 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:31.759 colleagues voted it down for various reasons. But I think 200 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:35.799 it's time for us to revisit that. And maybe it 201 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.440 would not be just city council is on the ethics 202 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:45.320 committee itself. Maybe it might be people throughout the city, 203 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:52.039 maybe some type of college professors or ethics professors or 204 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.159 business people. But I do think we need some type 205 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.559 of committee that would hold city councilors accountable. That was 206 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:04.639 voted down, but I'm I'm going forward with it again. 207 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:12.120 Maybe a different type of opportunity for us to do that. 208 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.000 How close was the vote when when it came? What 209 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:17.960 was the vote? Do you remember? 210 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:18.559 No? 211 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:21.399 I don't, but I don't believe it was close. My 212 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:26.440 colleagues advocated against it. They didn't think it was necessary 213 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.000 for various reasons. In one of the reasons was they 214 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:35.399 didn't want city councilors holding other city councilors, you know, 215 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:39.200 responsible or accountable. 216 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.159 But you would you just addressed that if you could, 217 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:45.759 they could put together a committee. I have, you know, 218 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.399 a couple of former judges. There are retired judges who 219 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:54.480 who are always you know, involved in sort of these things, mediations, arbitration. 220 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.440 They could be easy to put together a five member 221 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:01.039 committee which would which would not meet very often, and 222 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:04.080 I suspect they would probably do it at for for 223 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:06.759 no cost, and that a lot of the judges would 224 00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:09.879 be willing to give back some time. I suspect a 225 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:12.320 couple of judges, a couple of lawyers or whatever, maybe 226 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.759 a citizen representative. I think that there's a lot of 227 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:18.360 ways to do that so that none of the councilors 228 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.639 are put in the position where they have to stand 229 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:23.519 in judgment or sit in judgment of their colleagues. 230 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:25.039 Yeah, right, I agree. 231 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.320 I think that's a great, a great avenue to pursue. 232 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:32.000 And that's that's something I would like to pursue. And 233 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.279 the other the other couple of options besides having an 234 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:39.519 ethics committee, which I desperately think we need to, but 235 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:45.399 i'd also like city councilors in the mayor, but focused 236 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:49.519 on the city councilors to release their state in federal taxes. 237 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:54.600 I think I think that's important and maybe over the 238 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:59.639 over the past five years. And we also dan have 239 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:06.480 to to file a form a financial interest form Statement 240 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:10.399 of financial interest in that form is yearly. It goes 241 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.440 to the city clerk and we signed it under the 242 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:18.960 pains and penalties of perjury. But I think we also 243 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:23.200 we also should be sending that document as well to 244 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.399 the mass State Ethics Committee, not just to the city clerk. 245 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.200 And I think that form should be public. 246 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:30.559 It is. 247 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.639 It is public now if you if you go into 248 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.559 the city clerk in person and request it. But I 249 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:40.639 do think any state or reason why you want it. 250 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.799 But I do think that type of form should be 251 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.720 should be public inaccessible as well. 252 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.559 In this day and age of you know, the Internet 253 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:54.039 and UH and computers and AI. No reason why because 254 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.240 at that point obviously the you know, they probably can 255 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.200 play all sorts of games well you've got to file 256 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.159 a Freedom of the Nation request and then you have 257 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:05.240 to pay ten dollars a page, and they that's that's 258 00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:09.799 many ways in which people get frustrated when they're trying 259 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.120 to figure out what's going on. I agree with you. 260 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.480 It should. It just should be made public and there 261 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.559 for everyone, for all the world to say. Simple, simple 262 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:19.879 as that. And I want to take a break, and 263 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.679 I want to hear what people think. The lines are 264 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.440 full at six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty. 265 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:28.480 We got Jack, Bob and Ron there and I got 266 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.440 a couple of lines at six one, seven, nine three, one, 267 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.159 ten thirty. We'll be back on night side right after 268 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:35.720 the news at the bottom of the era. My guess 269 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:39.879 is Boston City Councilor Ed Flynn. His dad was mayor 270 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.559 of this city for about ten years from nineteen eighty 271 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:47.240 three to on nineteen ninety three. Uh did a great 272 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.679 job as mayor. Just you know, I thought one of 273 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:55.639 the series of great mayors in Boston. UH and UH. 274 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:58.759 And Ed is following in his footsteps. As you probably know, 275 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.360 Ed served in the US Navy for over twenty years, 276 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.599 and then he's following in the footsteps of his father 277 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.279 as a Boston City councilor family that gives a lot 278 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.279 of genuine service, genuine service, not self service, but genuine 279 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:17.880 service to residents in Boston. We'll be back on Nightside 280 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:18.519 right after this. 281 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.680 It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio. 282 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.519 My guess Boston City council Ed Flynn, councilor. Let's get 283 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:32.400 some phone calls, see what people think about this. This 284 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.240 is this is a stunning fall from grace for a 285 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:41.359 Boston City councilor who actually came here from another part 286 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:48.160 of the world. And I don't know, maybe maybe somehow 287 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:55.640 Someway didn't understand what the standards of in this country are. 288 00:17:55.799 --> 00:18:00.160 But boy, she disgraced herself, and she disgraced the city 289 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.279 council and disgrace the city of Boston. Let me go next. First, 290 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:05.799 Jack is a Newton Hey, Jack, welcome you. Next on 291 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.279 night Side, you're on with Boston City councilor Ed Flynn. 292 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:13.480 Hi, how do you do, Jack Porter or pleasure to 293 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:15.200 talk to you. I think I have. 294 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:16.960 On this. 295 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.839 Yeah, thank you. I handle on this as a sociologist, 296 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:27.200 uh mental health stress. I know that people in the 297 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:31.759 Cape Verde and community. I've talked to psychologists there. They 298 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:35.920 have a lot of stress. In one case where you 299 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:40.839 know sister guys in childbirth and cavebrity. Another one, a 300 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:44.960 brother you know dies in an accident. If you told 301 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.759 me that, you know, death and is very prominent. And 302 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.279 that's one stress. The other is if you're a woman, 303 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.960 if you're a woman of color, if you're a single 304 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:57.920 woman of color, there's going to be you know, more 305 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.079 stress on you. So you need to have mental health. 306 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:05.640 Part of your bill that you want to introduce is 307 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:09.640 mental health. It's not an excuse, though you're right, you 308 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:10.519 can't excuse. 309 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:10.839 I don't know. 310 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.359 I think Professor Dershwitz wrote this book called the excuse defense. 311 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.160 That's because you have this doesn't mean you can get 312 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.680 away with breaking the law. You still have to be punished. 313 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:26.799 But I think we have to understand distresses that Dominican 314 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:32.240 uh death for American women and capability and women I'm 315 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:36.119 talking about, I mean Wilkinson member, she also built the 316 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.240 law term that. 317 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:41.079 Was the state senator who stuff who stuff pictures of 318 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.880 dead presidents in her in her bra on camera. If 319 00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:46.440 I'm not mistaken, she was under a lot of stress. 320 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.680 Do you think that that that's a factor here. 321 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:56.480 You're asking me or ed Flynn. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. 322 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.880 Counsel Jack, I don't know. I don't want to dismiss 323 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:04.599 that outright. I just don't know the answer to it. 324 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:09.319 I do know what what what I do. What I 325 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:15.720 know about is, you know, she she entered the guilty 326 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:20.359 play today and she she accepted or she's going to 327 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.319 accept responsibility. I think there will be some type of 328 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:29.319 commitment to federal prison. But I could not speak about 329 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:33.480 mental health related issues at all. I'm sorry. I don't 330 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.559 have a I really don't have an answer or an 331 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:37.400 opinion on that. 332 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:40.599 You know, Jack, I think you I think you're painting 333 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.559 with a broad brush. I really do. I think that 334 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:47.160 there's a lot of people in different groups, different groups, men, women, 335 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.000 older folks. There are folks who are more your age 336 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:54.839 and my age who are are seeing the sunset of 337 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.839 their lives approaching, and some of them, you know, are 338 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:01.200 facing financial problems. I mean, a lot of people have stress. 339 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.559 It doesn't justify doing you're familiar with what this city 340 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.559 councilor has admitted to doing. I assume you're familiar with 341 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:13.000 the case. I'm not gonna yeah, yeah, right, that's what 342 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.519 I'm saying, I mean, this is this is not someone 343 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:21.480 who understress blew up and yelled inappropriate words during a 344 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:25.160 city council hearing. This is someone who engaged in what 345 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.799 would be considered to be a pretty craven act. I mean, 346 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:32.240 giving money to a raised to a relative who shouldn't 347 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:33.160 be on the payroll. 348 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:36.039 See how angry she is. You can see that it's 349 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:42.079 just not normal behavior. Cal lend her actions not normal. 350 00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:45.920 The woman that that that that crashed the car. Yeah, 351 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:50.119 well again, I don't know. I think that there were 352 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:54.359 plenty of people of Cape Verdian extraction and and and 353 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.000 all sorts of groups of minority and majority who conduct 354 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.640 themselves very well. I mean, we could turn around and 355 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.440 we could we could say, look at the stress that 356 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:06.359 Harvey Weinstein was under. The Hollywood producer. 357 00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:07.359 Maybe he was. 358 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:10.440 Maybe, you know, Jack, you can't. You can't use stress 359 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:11.920 for every person who breaks the wall. 360 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.400 I know that I agree with Hill. They should bear. 361 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:20.079 And I'm saying it's a factor to understand what is happening. 362 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.799 You know, stress on baseball players, the stress on people 363 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.960 who are in politics, one of the factors is that 364 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:31.720 they are women and a minority. It doesn't mean I'm. 365 00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:34.000 Feeling stress right now, Jack is a talk show host. 366 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.920 Because they think you're getting angry at me, Jack, I'm 367 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:42.240 feeling stress. I need to get to a counselist. Oh yeah, okay, Jack, 368 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.519 I appreciate that point of view. Very thoughtful. As always, 369 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:47.799 we you and I might see it a little differently, 370 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.400 But thank you for your call. Have a good mine. 371 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:53.519 Let's keep thank you, Jack, Let's keep rolling. He're going 372 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.720 to go to Bob and Walpole. Bob, you got any 373 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:57.319 stress you'd like to let us know about. 374 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:03.279 Yeah, look, work, what's the maximum sentence that she can reserve? 375 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.359 I don't know what the maximum sentence is. I will 376 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:13.359 tell you that apparently the US Attorney's Office is apparently 377 00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:17.480 going to recommend a year and a day in custody 378 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:22.200 and the three years of supervised probation upon release. You 379 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.359 got to turn that radio down, Barb. We got a 380 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.759 lot of noise in the background. I don't know if 381 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:28.119 that's going to cause your stress. 382 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.640 Okay, I shut off the radio. But here's my thing. 383 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:38.839 She knew exactly what she was doing. Why do they 384 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.960 always get off almost scott free? Why don't they get 385 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:46.480 the maximum sentence? She knew on purpose. 386 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:47.079 Yeah. 387 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.200 Well, well, first of all, it's part of a plean 388 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:55.119 a plea negotiation. Uh. And the the U. S. Attorney's 389 00:23:55.200 --> 00:24:00.559 Office probably takes into consideration a lot of factors. The 390 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.880 fact that she did this while in a public in 391 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:11.359 elected public office, that works against her, frankly, because the 392 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:13.720 argument is that she would have betrayed the trust not 393 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:19.400 only of all the City of Boston residents, but also 394 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.720 the people who elected her. Think she was elected twice 395 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.400 to the council, maybe three times, Ed, you would know 396 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:28.680 that better than she's been elected twice or three. 397 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:31.319 Times, I believe to him twice twice. 398 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.640 Okay, go ahead, Bob. I interrupted you to go ahead 399 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:34.799 and made your act. Go ahead, Bob. 400 00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.839 But you know, listen, she know what she was doing. 401 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:40.400