WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.160 Oh he is, folks, it show die. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.599 People say good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.519 When they go out to a theater, they want clothed, sodas, 4 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:15.960 hot popcorn in no monsters. 5 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.519 In the Projection Booth, everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.960 Got it off? 7 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.840 Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth. 8 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:45.359 I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, it is 9 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:48.560 the return of Clark Collis. He wrote You've got read 10 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.079 on You all about the making of Shawn of the Dead. 11 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:55.520 Now he's back with a incredibly ambitious book called Screaming 12 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:59.880 and Conjuring, The Resurrection and Unstoppable Rise of the Modern Horror. 13 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:04.159 It is a trip through the horror genre for the 14 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:08.840 last say twenty five years, that sweet spot between when 15 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:12.400 Scream came out and then the Conjuring movie started, and 16 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:16.799 a whole lot more. It is a just wild ride 17 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.719 that he takes you on. Goes before Scream, of course, 18 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.519 and goes after the Conjuring movies, and talks about a 19 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.200 whole lot of stuff that as you hear this interview, 20 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:27.439 your mind will just start racing with all of the 21 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:31.560 other titles that came out during that wonderful time. Thank 22 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:34.359 you so much for listening. Definitely pick up Screaming and 23 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:38.319 Conjuring and I hope you enjoy this interview. Clark Collis, 24 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:40.120 thank you so much for coming back on the show. 25 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:42.480 I always appreciate talking with you. I had such a 26 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.519 fun time talking about You've got read on you and 27 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:48.799 am super excited to talk about Screaming and Conjuring. So 28 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.319 when I saw the title of the book, wasn't exactly 29 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.359 share what it was about, but I kind of had 30 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.519 an inkling how did you approach this topic and what 31 00:01:58.719 --> 00:01:59.680 inspired this book. 32 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:04.359 So it is a book that is essentially a history 33 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.640 of the modern horror movie, which starts with Scream in 34 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:12.960 nineteen ninety six and ends with The Conjuring in twenty thirteen, 35 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.680 although there is an epilogue that sort of canters through 36 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:21.199 the last ten years, which proved to be a pretty 37 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:25.639 busy ten years. I just felt it was a period 38 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.879 of time in horror that hadn't really been covered before 39 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:35.400 in this particular way. I look at essentially the different 40 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:39.639 waves of horror that arrived during that time. So obviously 41 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:45.000 following Scream, you had a lot of horror teen slashes essentially, 42 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:49.479 and then that was followed by both the short lived 43 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.719 craze for j horror and the rather longer lived crazes 44 00:02:53.919 --> 00:03:01.759 for remaking every horror movie ever made, and also what 45 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:06.759 became known as the torture porn sort of period. Plus 46 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:12.960 you had the French extreme, you had influences from abroad. 47 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:17.319 From abroad, essentially the book is very US and to 48 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.159 some degree UK focus, but primarily US. And then that 49 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:27.960 also led to this started the sort of supernatural, both 50 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:31.879 fan footage, the enthusiasm for fan footage movies and for 51 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:37.719 supernatural horror, which began with paranormal activity and then insidious 52 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:41.680 and then ultimately the conjuring. And I think there had 53 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:45.439 been books about the screen franchise, for example, and torture 54 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.719 porn and Jay horror, and I just thought it would 55 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:52.479 be interesting to me certainly, and hopefully the readers weave 56 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:56.560 together a tale. I could see the story in my mind, 57 00:03:56.639 --> 00:04:01.479 the way that one wave or one batch of filmmakers 58 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:06.280 inspired the next sort of positive legal negatively, So you 59 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:12.719 have scream inspiring all the team slashers. But then you know, 60 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:14.879 after two or three years of that, you had the 61 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:18.800 onslaught of as I said, quote unquote, torture porn movies, 62 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:23.920 which to some degree was the reaction to that Rob Zombie, 63 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:25.839 and he was like, I was never going to make 64 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.600 a Screamer, I Know what you did last Summer, or 65 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:31.800 an Urban Legends. It was always going to be My 66 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.160 influences were always going to be from the seventies, essentially. 67 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.439 Then he went on to make House one Thousand Corpses 68 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:42.279 and The Devil's Reject, so that was in my mind. Originally. 69 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:46.120 I pitched my wonderful publisher, Matthew at nineteen eighty four Publishing, 70 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:50.079 doing a book that kind of described the creation of 71 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.240 ten or so franchises from the period, because studying it 72 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.000 was Scream in nineteen ninety six. You do have this 73 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:04.240 new wave of franchises because the previous franchises of the eighties, 74 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:08.759 Your Halloween's and your A Night We're in Elm Streets 75 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:12.600 had run out of gas a bit by the mid 76 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.519 nineties and then were replaced by Scream, I Know what 77 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:21.639 you did last Summer saw obviously hostel and then leading 78 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.759 into paranormal activity and insidious and the conjuring. So I 79 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:31.120 suggested picking ten franchises and looking at that, Matthew made 80 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:34.680 the student observation that's all well and good, but if 81 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:38.720 somebody doesn't, for example, the Saw movies, and that's the 82 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:41.639 whole chapter that just gonna skip. So maybe it would 83 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:44.160 be best to make it a little bit more palatable 84 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:48.000 to those people too, to weave the weave all the 85 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.079 stories together, which which I think he was one hundred 86 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:52.600 percent rider, and I'm happy with the way that it 87 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:53.160 turned out. 88 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:56.560 I'm surprised you survived writing a book like this because 89 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:59.720 it just seems to continue to go down the rabbit 90 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:04.079 hole every single page I turn or flip through virtually 91 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:08.519 these days. But it was just amazing to have you 92 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:11.040 talking about screaming. Then you kind of dip back into like, well, 93 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.120 here's more about Wes Craven, and here's more about John Carpenter. 94 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:17.439 Here's more about Slashers, and just build and build and build, 95 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:20.120 and just take me through this. And you are such 96 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:23.600 a good host to take me through this entire journey. 97 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:27.959 The tension was I wanted it to be comprehensive, but 98 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.199 I also didn't want to basically just be a list 99 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:33.959 of movies. I do not tell the story of every 100 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:36.920 horror movie during this period, but I do have a 101 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:41.600 stab at telling the stories behind the most popular, the 102 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:47.879 most influential, and on occasion just stories that used me 103 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:52.000 to tell. Like I didn't intend to devote a section 104 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.279 to the film Dracula two thousand, of which I had 105 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:57.439 no memory whatsoever, to be honest with you, even though 106 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:00.439 it was quite a popular film. But then I interviewed 107 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:05.199 and interviewed the lovely and very talented Patrick Lacier, who 108 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:08.639 was Weds Craven's long time editor but also directed a 109 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.720 bunch of films, including it was the second film actually, 110 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.319 Dracula two thousand, and he related the story of how 111 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:20.800 in I guess February two thousand Bob Weinstein, and Bob 112 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:23.399 Weinstein said, Okay, I want you to make a punk 113 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:25.959 call Dracula the two thousand. This is Bob Weinstein, obviously 114 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:29.319 the brother of Harvey Weinstein and also the head of 115 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.839 Dimension Films. He said, I want you to would you 116 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:36.079 be interested in making punk call Dracula two thousands in February, 117 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.959 but it has to be out by December of that year, 118 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:44.720 so he had nine months to do it, and even films, 119 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.800 films are made within a nine month period, but it's 120 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:50.959 usually means that at the start of that nine month 121 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:53.079 period they at least have a script or some notion 122 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:54.920 of what this film is going to be about. And 123 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:57.560 even then it's a hell of a race. And Patrick 124 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.800 walked me through that experience, and then I was like, 125 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:03.279 I've got all this of material. It's a fascinating story. 126 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:06.439 And even though you know, I think it's not a film, 127 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:08.000 a lot of people remember, I kind of want to 128 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.199 stick that in. The funny ending to that story is 129 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:14.959 that Bob Weinstein was obsessed to the idea that it 130 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.040 had to come out in two thousand because it was 131 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:20.480 called Dracula two thousand. But it being two thousand is 132 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.879 not really essential to the film. It's not like all 133 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:27.680 that many people saying Dracula is alive in the year 134 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.360 two thousand and that doesn't really happen all that much. 135 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.960 And so in foreign territories it was actually released in 136 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:36.720 two thousand and one, and in those territories it was 137 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.919 retitled Dracula two thousand and one, which seemed like a 138 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:42.879 very easy fix. To be honest with you. 139 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:45.720 I was surprised at just how many people you talked 140 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:47.519 to for this. When do you have any account of 141 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:49.639 how many interviews you had to do for this? 142 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:56.600 I interviewed about fifty people specifically for this book. I 143 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.000 spent eighteen years as a senior writer at Entertainment Weekly magazine, 144 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:02.600 and during that period, because it was a period where 145 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.240 we really started going online, I had the opportunity to 146 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:10.200 interview all sorts of people about all sorts of horror 147 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:13.320 folks about their films, and so some of it was 148 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:17.240 old material. The strange thing was sometimes I'd be like, Ah, 149 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:21.720 I wish I'd spoken to such and such about this film, 150 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:23.639 and then I would just do a search of my 151 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:26.840 documents on my computer and realize that I had indeed 152 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.759 spoken to such and such about that film. Everyone in 153 00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:33.080 Entertainment Weekly was speaking to a lot of people. During 154 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:37.519 the two thousands, I did about fifty reviews specifically for 155 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:40.600 the book, and then I have no idea, probably included 156 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:47.679 quotes from fifty more people that I'd interviewed before. And then, frankly, 157 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:51.120 I was in London and I went to the BFI, 158 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:54.919 the British Film Institute, and they've got a wonderful library 159 00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:00.120 and they have two rows of band Fangoria magazines. So 160 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.399 I spent two months at the BFI London going through 161 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:07.759 every issue of Fangoria from that period. And it really 162 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:12.159 I've always loved fangoria, but I have to say, boy, 163 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:16.360 like they really covered horror. I mean they and continue 164 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:20.519 to do. But like I would like, there are so 165 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:24.279 many films that, like I say, people might not remember 166 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:27.879 that they would have devoted a story to the production, 167 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:30.960 then another article and a different issue maybe to the effects. 168 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.879 And yeah, that was a glory, that was a pretty 169 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.399 that was a pretty fun couple of months. But it 170 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.799 took a long time to crank through seventeen years worth 171 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.960 of what was then like it was like every single month. 172 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.480 I like the writing process, so I like interviewing people 173 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.200 and writing. And I think some people, if they decided 174 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:54.440 to write this kind of history, would be like I'm 175 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:56.039 going to get all the DVDs and I'm going to 176 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.399 spend three months watching the DVDs. And I certainly did 177 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.279 spend a lot of time watching the DVDs, but like 178 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:07.039 to get on with it. Having said which, if people 179 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:10.279 who are active horror fans during the two thousands or 180 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:12.320 any kind of film fans will be aware that if 181 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:15.480 you get those DVDs, like often there's two or three 182 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.480 or four commentaries, like an Eli Ross film might have 183 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:24.000 seven different commentaries and that's another Again, I'm not suggesting 184 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:27.759 that's hard labor, but like the Hostile DVD are like 185 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:31.559 Happened Fever DVD, I'm you know, sitting down and listening 186 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:34.519 to all of that because even though I interviewed Eli, like, 187 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:38.320 you never know what kind of little factoid is going 188 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:42.519 to spring up during the commentary. And also those people's 189 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:47.120 memories now are a lot hazier than have gotten hazy 190 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:50.080 over time. So it's fantastic to get to listen to 191 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.120 commentaries that were made when the blood on the fake 192 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.080 corpses are still wet. Pretty much, this book is about 193 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:58.759 four uder and fifty pages long, and it literally couldn't 194 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:02.120 be any longer because you need to physically bind this thing, 195 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:04.720 although I did. After I finished it, I realized the 196 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:08.600 Barber Streuisen's autobiography was nine hundred pages, and I did 197 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:10.679 almost call up my publisher and be like, wait, why 198 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:13.399 did this thing have to be like and got only 199 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.080 four hundred and fifty pages because it's been longer. So 200 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.879 I'd interviewed like Greg Nicotero, who is this who I 201 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:23.919 interviewed before, but he's mostly known I guess as a 202 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:27.639 special makeup effects wizard. He co founded K and B 203 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:30.720 his craigs all the way back to Evil Dead two, 204 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.600 and then over time he's become like a second unit director. 205 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:37.039 He's one of the main creative forces behind The Walking Dead, 206 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.159 which is probably now what he is most famous for, 207 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.919 but he's worked on pretty much like he's worked on 208 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:46.159 dozens of horror movies. And so I interviewed him, and 209 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:51.200 I spoke to him about the ten most prominent horror 210 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.879 films from the era that he worked for worked on 211 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.840 from The Mess to Jennifer's Body to Drag Me to 212 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:02.519 Hell to and so I'd interview him and then I'd 213 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:04.840 get up the next morning and transcribe the interview, and 214 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:07.759 it's not the best, but I always think it's like 215 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.039 when a sailor puts a net into the sea and 216 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.360 then pulls it in and then you see what fish 217 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.480 you've got, And that's what I mean. People A lot 218 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.360 of people use transcribing services, but I like to transcribe 219 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:22.279 myself because you're like, this is what I got. Because 220 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.320 when you're interviewing somebody, especially if you're interviewing someone about 221 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:29.080 lots of different movies, you're not always really taking in 222 00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:31.600 what they're saying. Necessarily, or you need to be a 223 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.639 better interviewer than I am to do that. You're thinking, 224 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.000 what's the next question going to be? What's the next 225 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.840 film going to be? Because there's always a time issue, 226 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.200 And so I would get all these great quotes safe 227 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:44.320 from Greg Nicaturio and they would then I would go 228 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.799 into the text and just add them with that really, 229 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:50.600 and then so this would happen day after day with 230 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.720 different interviewees, and I wasn't really that worried about how 231 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:57.759 big the book was getting until I woke up one 232 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.600 day and realized that it was like eighty thousand words 233 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.360 longer than it could be, really, that it physically could be, 234 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:07.399 and to those who don't know, like eighty thousand words 235 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.320 is like two hundred pages basically, So I had to 236 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:15.480 Then I was extricker because the time was grinding on, 237 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.639 the deadline was getting close, and this thing was now 238 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:23.639 like a book more than it should be, really, and 239 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.600 so then I had to go in. And I'm pretty 240 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.360 good at cutting my own work. I usually find that 241 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:31.159 if I leave something for a week and go back 242 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.960 to it, that I'm like, what is half of this 243 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.120 nonsense You've written like a week ago? So that was 244 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:39.360 fine in the end, but yeah, that was something. But 245 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:41.240 it's good when you've all it's good when you've got 246 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:44.799 too much material. And I always think that perhaps if 247 00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:46.559 you boil something down, as I had to do, from 248 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:48.559 two hundred and fifty thousand words to one hundred and 249 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:53.279 fifty thousand words, then hopefully people, even though it's not there, 250 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.759 people can still sense that the half that was there, 251 00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:00.240 the sort of that you still get on the like 252 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:04.720 a physical feeling of hopefully well made or at least 253 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.960 extremely sturdy antique desk or something. 254 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.960 Were there any movies that were new to you while 255 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:13.360 you were putting this together? 256 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:17.639 There were some like I've never been a fan of 257 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.519 very extreme horror, or rather I don't really mind very 258 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:25.200 extreme horror. I guess what I don't really like is 259 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.320 films that I'm not even sure horror movies yet are 260 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:33.159 very extreme. And I had never seen Lars von Trier's Antichrist, 261 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:35.879 for instance, which I guess is technical horror. And I 262 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:37.639 should say that I like what a lot of Las 263 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:42.240 van von Trier's filmography did a wonderful I've saw a 264 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:45.840 wonderful two season show set in a hospital in like 265 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.759 the maddest hospital that ever existed called The Kingdom, and 266 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.840 I remember going to a cinema and watching all of 267 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.600 the second season in one day. But I've never seen 268 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.960 Anti Christ because I think I read reviews was aware 269 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:01.600 that it was a bit of a tough watch, and 270 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:08.879 I watched it, and it's artistic certainly, but I was like, Oh, 271 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:10.919 this is no fun and I'm glad that I hadn't 272 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.000 seen it before. There was stuff that I felt that 273 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:17.440 I probably wouldn't be writing about at length, but I 274 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.039 felt I needed to check out to sort of make 275 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.759 sure that I shouldn't be writing about like or to 276 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.320 understand its position in the context of horror. And I 277 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.600 mentioned I did mention Anti Christ and a couple of 278 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.759 other extreme horror movies, but then did a section on 279 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.799 The Human Centerpede, which in its own way is equally 280 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:39.519 grotesque as Antichrist, but it's very much more of a 281 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.639 traditional horror movie. And there was an odd period of 282 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.039 time and Entertainment Weekly when I was one of my 283 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:50.080 jobs was basically being the Human Centerpede correspondent because it 284 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:54.200 was something of a theatrical success, but what really became 285 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:58.440 popular was the idea of stitching people together and so 286 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:01.879 it was referenced on thirty Rock and The Colberg Show 287 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.160 and all of these TV shows. And I had like 288 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.799 lunch with Tom six, the director and the cast of 289 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.759 Human Center bed two at very nice steak restaurant in Midtown. 290 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:18.000 So I had all this stuff on the Human Centipede, 291 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:21.400 which I thought was of interest. And yeah, there's definitely 292 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.039 some sort of smaller movements of the era where I'm like, 293 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.839 these are the three or four films of importance, and 294 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.920 let's look particularly at this one movie. 295 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.200 Reading the book, it feels like you have seen everything, 296 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:42.559 so I was surprised that there were things that you 297 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:43.559 hadn't seen before. 298 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.119 Yeah, there were one or two that I'd avoided, And 299 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:49.200 I think there's just stuff that I had seen and 300 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:53.160 then frankly could not remember anything about, which isn't necessarily 301 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:57.039 dis from that quality. But for example, Patrick Lucier, who 302 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:00.720 I was talking about earlier directing directly two thousand later 303 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.599 directed My Bloody Valentine's three D remake of My Bloody 304 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.359 Valentine that I definitely saw but didn't really have much 305 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:13.240 memory of, and so I rewatched that was this is 306 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.359 a lot of fun. This is a lot of fun. 307 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.680 It's interesting that. I think when you go to the cinema, 308 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.680 you always wanted to be the best film in the world, 309 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.799 and then when it's not, you're like, okay, that was 310 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.440 all right. But I think from a perspective of twenty years, 311 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:32.599 it's amazing how many films that I probably didn't regard 312 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:35.240 that highly at the time. I'm like, this is fun, 313 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.640 this is just flat out fun. If this turned up today, 314 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.480 then I would really enjoy it. What I thought what 315 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.599 happened is I would watch a lot of horror films 316 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:49.240 from the era and they just wouldn't have aged. And 317 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.640 certainly there's some if you go back, especially to the 318 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:56.119 early two thousands when it's that period of Maxim magazine 319 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:59.279 being very popular, the Manjdo and all of that stuff, 320 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.839 some language in some of the films which has an 321 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:07.680 aged necessarily well in terms of slurs and this and that. 322 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.480 But with regards apart from that, I was surprised how 323 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.920 many of those films still stand leve. I am afraid 324 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.039 to admit that I watched. I do not have a 325 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:21.039 big steps TV setup to you would think that I 326 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:24.960 have one of those theaters and big comfy armchair and 327 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:30.200 a in popcorn machine but not. I just watched everything 328 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.400 on the same old crappy computer that I'm speaking with 329 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.359 you on them. But I would put on like The Descent, 330 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:42.799 for instance, Neil Marshall's tale of sperlunkers who meet monsters 331 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:48.160 in an apple Eachian cave system. And I'm really hobbling 332 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:50.960 the film's chances of frightening me by watching it on 333 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:54.039 my tiny little computer. Another thing scary as hell in 334 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.559 any format, I have to say. And it's as scary 335 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.400 now really as it was twenty years ago. And again, 336 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.160 films were either as good as I remembered or had 337 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:06.720 improved in my mind through time. 338 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:12.680 Basically, it's always fascinating how the movies informed themselves versus 339 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:17.359 the outside factors of you know, world politics or policy 340 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:20.319 or you know, social movements, those kind of things. It's 341 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:24.119 always so interesting to see how that balance comes by, 342 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.839 and how sometimes films just completely miss when it comes 343 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.119 to where they should have been heading and where they 344 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.279 ended up going to. And just like this was not 345 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.279 very successful just because of times of change, but the 346 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:38.079 filmmakers didn't seem to realize that. 347 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.680 Yeah. Again and again, it's like any sort of type 348 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:46.160 of industry, so many people would tell me that they 349 00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:53.480 had trouble getting the film finance because it wasn't similar 350 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.599 to the film that two three days ago had just 351 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.680 opened at the box office. I interviewed Mike or Doherty, 352 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.920 who directed film Trick or Treat and then later went 353 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:10.599 on to direct one of the wildly successful Godzilla movies, 354 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.480 but Trick a Treat was his first. Who was his 355 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:18.000 directorial debut. Who's trying to get finance for it? And 356 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.640 for those han't seen it, it's got essentially a anthology 357 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:24.880 horror movie, but the stories are woven together. But you've 358 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:30.200 got were wolves and zombies and a serial killer, but 359 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.319 it's not like a teen serial killer thing. And he 360 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:36.200 was trying to sell this in two thousand and was 361 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:39.799 rapeatedly told no one gives a crap about like vampires 362 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.720 or were wolves or anything that you're talking about. All 363 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.400 people want teen slashers. And Michael was thinking to himself, 364 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.039 but they're not gonna want teen slashes by the time 365 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.960 we've made this film, because that'll be in two years time, 366 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:55.359 and by that point they'll have had six years of 367 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:58.480 teen slashes and people will no longer want to citizens, 368 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:02.759 which was absolutely proven correct. And again there are so 369 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:08.440 many stories. The book starts with a story told me 370 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:13.359 by Don Coscarelli, the writer director of Fantasm, created the 371 00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:17.599 Phantasm franchise and later went on to direct Bubba Hotel 372 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:20.799 and John Dies at the end. But in the early 373 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:25.599 nineties was trying to get an adaptation of a Joe 374 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:30.119 Lansdale zombie Western off the ground, which you would actually think, 375 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.400 that's the fantastic mix of stuff. And he sent it 376 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:36.440 out the studios and all the he was like, even 377 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:38.400 New Line, which was like the sort of house of 378 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:41.480 horror at the time, send a note back saying, no 379 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:44.079 one will ever want to see a zombie movie basically. 380 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:47.640 So then he went back at I think I got 381 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.880 to him across there all references to zombies and just 382 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:55.920 put monster instead. But who's the same, Because, as you said, 383 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.759 it has to be the right time. Maybe if Don 384 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:01.680 had made a Zombie West in the nearly nineties, that 385 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:04.519 wouldn't have worked. But what I can tell you is 386 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:08.440 that ten years later, suddenly everybody's making zombie movies and 387 00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:13.440 zombie zombie genre is not just the most popular horror 388 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:15.000 genre in the world, but it's one of the most 389 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.279 popular genres in the world. For ten or fifteen yearsn't 390 00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:19.480 even up to today. 391 00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:22.519 It's amazing too to think of just how many of 392 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.400 these franchises that you talk about are still going. You know, 393 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.160 as we're talking, it's like, what two weeks after the 394 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.119 latest Conjuring film. 395 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:32.759 I think it is. 396 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:38.079 It's like they just they have had legs for decades now, 397 00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:41.400 which is wild. I mean, even what Final Destination just 398 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.759 got a remake I think, or maybe it's a oh. 399 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:47.400 That's I mean not see in Final Destination blood Lines. 400 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:51.480 That's one of the honest to god, that is my 401 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.799