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Speaker 1: I go down that road maybe twice a month to

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go back home and visit family and stuff like that.

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For the first couple of months, I would white knuckle

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the steering wheel driving down that road because of the

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anxiety and the feel my heart pounding in my chest

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and my neck. Even now, I will not drive down

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that road by myself. And I don't even know if

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it's I'm afraid I'm going to see it again, or

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if it's that if I didn't see it again, I

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don't think I could tell anybody. It's crazy enough that

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I saw it the first time, and if I said

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I saw it again, nobody's gonna believe me.

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Speaker 2: And that's a horrible feeling. I do not want to

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see another one of these things. This is Bigfoot Crossroads.

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My name is Matt and joining me is John, the

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mastermind behind Myths, monsters and mullets. Quite a name, John,

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How'd you come up with that one?

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Speaker 1: Actually, I started all my content creation as comedy, and

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I was playing a character named John Mehingcamp.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Basically, he.

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Speaker 1: Basically is a ladies man from the eighties who's kind

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of stuck there.

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Speaker 2: And I was.

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Speaker 1: Basically doing these videos where I was giving dating advice.

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Speaker 2: Really bad dating advice. Nice. So this character wears a mullet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So then I started doing these paranor lives on

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TikTok That's where most of my content creation was taking place.

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And when I would start asking people for their paranormal encounters,

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you know.

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Speaker 2: It took off.

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Speaker 1: So I decided, you know, I'm going to kind of

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separate the paranormal from the comedy, and I decided to

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take my mullet off to do the paranormal encounters. And

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the first thing everybody would ask is where's your mullet?

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Speaker 2: So the mullet stayed.

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Speaker 1: And back in October, I met the guys from Nevermore Hollows,

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Alan and Chris at the Ohio Bigfoot Jamboree and we

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became friends, and Alan convinced me to start a podcast

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because I had all this content I was getting, you know,

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through TikTok Live, and that's how Monsters and Mullets was born.

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Speaker 2: Whenever you started asking people for their paranormal stories, what

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kind of stories were you getting anything?

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Speaker 1: And everything from just ghost stories to dog Man Bigfoot UFOs,

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it was basically what my show is right now. You know,

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it's if you have a paranormal encounter, whether it's scrypted, UFOs, ghosts,

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I've had demonic possession, just.

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Speaker 2: Anything weird, you know, I want to hear it. Well,

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we've talked a little bit on Facebook back and forth,

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and you kind of come from an interesting position a skeptic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I was a skeptic up until twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: So how do you go from being a skeptic to

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talking to people about all these crazy experiences.

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Speaker 1: Well, about the time that I started my content creation

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guy I worked with that also has a love for

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the paranormal. We liked watching the shows, but we would

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make fun.

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Speaker 2: Of them, you know, like the ghost hunting shows and

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things like that. I do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, I live twenty minutes north of the Randolph County

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Infirmary in Winchester, Indiana, and it's been featured.

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Speaker 2: On several paranormal and you know, ghosting shows.

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Speaker 1: So we're like, why don't we get some guys together

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and our spouses and we'll go down there and investigate

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this place. So we bought some, you know, some cheap

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equipment and got a group of about sixteen or seventeen

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people together, which was way too many. That we found

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out but we went in there and we started just

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emulating the things that we saw on these ghost hunting shows.

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And I went in with the goal of basically the

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bunking anything that anybody found that you know, all that

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you know that's paranormal. And we had a lot of

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really unexplainable things happened that night, including a rock being

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thrown at me from the darkness and everybody there was

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only five people left at that point, and everybody is

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on camera, and this rock comes flying out of the

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darkness and hits the cabinet next to my leg, And

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at that point I came to the realization that ghost

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are reel. So I started thinking, well, if ghost are reel,

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then what else is real? Which led me to podcasts,

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and I think, as most people do, the first place

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alien if they're looking for Bigfoot, is Sasquatch chronicles, And

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after listening to a bunch of encounter I realized that

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one I had some weird stuff happened to me growing

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up in southern Ohio that sounded a lot like what

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these people were reporting, including hearing some people would call

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the Ohio how right, So that that led me to

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digging into it further. And when I explained to you

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the things that I did experience. They're going to sound

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pretty familiar to a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: So whenever that rock hit next to you during the investigation,

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and that whole realization took place. Up until that point,

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besides the bigfoot hindsight that so many people go through

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once they start down the rabbit hole, you hadn't experienced

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anything throughout your lifetime that you considered unexplainable or paranormal

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in any way.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and and the especially what I now think

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were sasquatching counters. My grandfather was my my male role model,

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and he was a very practical and no nonsense type

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of guy.

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Speaker 2: And you know, as.

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Speaker 1: An impressionable youth, you know that is the uh, that

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is what I tried to emulate. Right, So, you know,

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there there was no such thing as ghosts. There was

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no such thing as bigfoot UFOs anything like that. And

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you know that the things that happened to me in

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the past, you know, I tried to rationalize it. You know, well,

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there there has to be a reason, there has to

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be something explainable. And looking back, you know, these things

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just weren't explainable. You know, I just passed them off

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is okay, that was weird, and just moved on with lie.

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Speaker 2: It's such a weird place to be at in your

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life whenever you come to that realization that there are

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things out there that aren't supposed to be out there,

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and that you were wrong previously and then and your

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role models were wrong, and the people that you know

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you learn from and as you said, emulated, you know,

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were wrong about a lot of stuff. And it's a

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hard pill to swallow. So looking back on your experiences,

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what were some of the things that stood out to you.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, one of the things that that a

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lot of people report is the smell.

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Speaker 2: Of sasquatch.

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Speaker 1: And there were two events that happened that again never

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saw anything but the first one. All of these happened

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between the ages of I would say eleven and sixteen

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years old, so we're talking nineteen eighty eight to nineteen

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ninety two. My grandparents owned a horse farm and we

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would spend our summers in Tar Hollow State Park in Ohio.

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That's not far from Hawking Hills. Most people have heard

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of Hawking Hills, but we would spend our weekends down

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there horseback riding and camping, and there was this one

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time we were riding what we called Rattlesnake Ridge. And

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the reason we called it that is they had done

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some logging and when they're that, they have these piles

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of just like that leftover trees, you know that nope

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that they didn't use, and they had it lined up

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along the trail, and Rattlesnakes have built dens in the

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in this just tangle of logs and sticks and stuff

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like that. So that's how I get the name Rattlesnake Ridge.

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But right across from this tangle of wood was a

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nice wide spot in the shade that we would always

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stop to rest our horses. And on this particular time,

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it was very hot like and if you know anything

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about horses, but when it's you know, it gets to

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be about one hundred degrees, you know, ninety to one

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hundred degrees, horses don't want to All they want to

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do is walk. You know, they're there. It's too much

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energy to to go fast or whatever. But horses also

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they remember where you stop. So if you if they've

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been down this this trail, you know, twenty thirty times,

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they'll recognize that, hey, up here, I'm getting a break.

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Speaker 2: And I mean my horses of.

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Speaker 1: Them, i'd get to that spot, it would just automatically

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just pull over to the side, like okay, it's time

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for a break.

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Speaker 2: Well, we get to the spot.

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Speaker 1: And it just dumps typical rotten meat, uh, wet garbage,

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just rank smell that we had never smelled before.

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Speaker 2: And we we pull.

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Speaker 1: Our horses over, you know, rain them over, and they

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don't want to stop. They're like doing circles.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: They normally they're happy to get you know, for us

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to get off their backs. But none of the horses

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wanted to stay in this area. And you know, my

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ground balls like, well, obviously they don't like the smell.

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And so we rode on down the path maybe another

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half mile and the horses were fine, they stopped and

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you know, had no problems. You know, they were when

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when when we were back by the rattlesnake then they

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were basically doing circles and real like nervous and again

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didn't see anything. But you know, when you when you

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hear these people talk about about the smell, that's that's

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what I smelled that day. And the reaction from the

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horses was bizarre, you know, when it when it's that hot,

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they're they're they're wanting to stop and for us to

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get off their backs, you know, so for them not

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to want to stop just seems bizarre and out of

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place to me. And you you uh, you add in

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just that that rid meat and trash smell, and you know,

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makes you think, well, maybe maybe there was something there

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and the horse's sensitive that and we couldn't.

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Speaker 2: If you ride horses, you have to pay attention to them.

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You have to learn their body language and everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it wasn't just myself that noticed it. I

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mean even my grandpa, who, like I said, he's no nonsense.

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You know, his horse didn't want to stick around either.

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Nobody's did you know, they wanted to keep going and

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they really should have wanted a break at that point

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because it was so hot that day.

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Speaker 2: Did your grandfather just assume that it was just something

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dead in the area.

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Speaker 1: He blamed it on the rattles stakes because rattlesteaks do

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have a musky smell, right, That is not what we

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smiled that day, you know, but that's what he attributed

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it to. You know, in his mind, that made the

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most sense.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that would had to have been one heck

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of a rattle snake downe to some smell it like.

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Speaker 1: That, right and unless unless it unless they killed something

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and drug it into that den.

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Speaker 2: I just don't see that happening. Have you gone back

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and looked for like reports in that area or anything.

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Speaker 1: Yes, actually, there there have been several reports of sasquatch

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in that area, And in fact, when we were riding

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down there, there was a guy who lived in the

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area and he told us that he had actually seen

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a creature down there. But back at that time we

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all made fun of him, sure, because you know, oh,

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that's a crazy sasquatch guy or crazy bigfoot guy. Yea,

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And he he described the smell as well. But you know,

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Holler State Park, I want to say it's maybe like

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twelve to fifteen hundred acres that's probably a good rough estimate.

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And it's just like most of southern Ohio, very hilly,

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a lot of deep valleys and steep ridges and things

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like that. So you know, when you hear when you

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start looking into sasquatch, and it does look like a

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could environment to where sasquatch could could exist. I don't

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know if you've ever seen the show what was that

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called Paranormal Declassified. Yeah, I think it was on MAC. Yeah,

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they did a they had a an episode where they

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actually were in tar Hollow State Park. Oh wow, recording

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on Bigfoot and they caught some weird noises and stuff

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down there. So yeah, there's there's been reports from tar Hollow.

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There was another time again, I was a kid, so

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and I hung out with adults. I was the oldest grandchild.

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You know, the adults they like to indulge in adult

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beverages while we rode, and then sometimes they would start

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indulging a little early, let's put it that way. Yeah,

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and then when we would do that, the breaks would

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get longer and longer and longer, and it no longer

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became fun for me. Keen know, because I'm sitting here

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watching everybody just party and yeah, this is I'm one

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to ride horses so on this particular day and it's funny.

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I just talked to my grandma about this over the weekend,

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and she remembered this. She did well, she remembered what

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led up. One of the women that was in our group.

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She indulged pretty heavily. And I want to say by noon,

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I know, it was eleven o'clock to noon.

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Speaker 2: She was.

241
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Speaker 1: Very inebriated, let's put it that way, and she needed

242
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to go back to camp. Well, nobody else wanted to

243
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go back to camp, but I wasn't having any fun,

244
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so I volunteered to take her back to camp. And

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I would have been probably fourteen at this time. And

246
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you know, I'd been riding that since I was eight

247
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years old, so I knew the park, I knew the trails.

248
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I would often just ride back to camp by myself,

249
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just because I got tired of waiting on everybody. But anyway,

250
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so I volunteered to take her back to camp. And

251
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she is to the point where she's probably could have

252
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used the seat belt, let's about that way. So we

253
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take off back towards the camp and we come up

254
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to this hill. And we had just come down this

255
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hill probably forty five minutes prior to this, and we

256
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didn't smell anything. But as we come up to this hill,

257
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it's again that that same smell that we smelled up

258
00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:34,839
on Rattle Snake Ridge. And I turned around to say

259
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something to the woman that was with me, and she

260
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looks at me and says, what the F is that?

261
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And about that time, our horses has bolted. They took

262
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off wanting to run up this hill. And if you

263
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do any trail riding, you don't let your horses run

264
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up hill. You know, they can get hurt, they can

265
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:02,720
get winded. You know, you rain them in, make them

266
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climb the hill at a reasonable pace. There was no

267
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,759
holding the horses back, like you know, I tried, she

268
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was trying. Our horses just they bolted and would finally

269
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make it to the top of the hill. And I've

270
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forced I forced our horses to stop because you know,

271
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they're they're breathing super heavy sweat running off of them.

272
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But both horses turned, but their ears perked up and

273
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they were facing down the hill like they were watching

274
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for something. And at the time I thought maybe she

275
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was talking when she said, what the ep is that?

276
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And she was talking about smell. But in hindsight, I

277
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don't know if maybe she actually saw something that day,

278
00:20:01,319 --> 00:20:04,279
because she didn't say, what, what's what's that smell?

279
00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:06,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, she said what f is that?

280
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Speaker 1: And then immediately our horses bolted like maybe they saw

281
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,880
it too. I don't know, But again, it was that

282
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the horses just were acting so.

283
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Speaker 2: Strangely around that same smell.

284
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 1: Yes, and you know, we get to the top of

285
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the hill, we can't smell it anymore. The horses did

286
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:33,680
calm down. We sat up there maybe fifteen twenty minutes,

287
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:36,480
let the horses catch their breath and stuff, and we

288
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:38,720
rode on back to camp. And you know, the horses

289
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:42,720
were fine, you know, they they acted just by and

290
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,759
we didn't smell that smell anymore. But again, at that

291
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,119
time are here touching as bigfoot? I don't know what

292
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:58,599
bigfoot is. You know, they heard a bigfoot JANEA Patterson film.

293
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,119
But you know, all that stuff is out on the

294
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,279
west coast, you know, that's not in Ohio. And again

295
00:21:05,319 --> 00:21:07,039
I would have never at that point, I would have

296
00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:10,000
never heard about, you know, the reports of the smell or.

297
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:10,799
Speaker 2: Anything like that.

298
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:14,759
Speaker 1: Right, you know, my Mileen introduction was basically Patterson Gemlin

299
00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:16,759
and Arian Henderson's.

300
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, how far away was that area from

301
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,839
Rattlesnake Ridge. That's the other side of the park.

302
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: I can tell you that, yeah, because we were we

303
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:31,319
were down a Butcher holler.

304
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,279
Speaker 2: And that's what the want done? What is that?

305
00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: That's the you're you're basically opposite sides of the park,

306
00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:43,839
and where the guy had the encounter that was in

307
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,920
a totally.

308
00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:47,559
Speaker 2: Different part of the park. Would it be normal for

309
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:54,599
horses to react that way, like fearful of something if

310
00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:56,079
they had never seen it.

311
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:06,559
Speaker 1: Before normally, you know, if a horse, yes, yes, and no,

312
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,680
sometimes they will they will freeze and look at it

313
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,079
like you know what am I seeing? Mm hmm, and

314
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:17,359
and and that can happen a lot of people don't

315
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,400
realize this. You know, we'd be riding our horses down

316
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,119
country roads in front of the in front of the farm,

317
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,880
and it could be something as simple as just on

318
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,799
the mailbox, you know, the little red flag. They can

319
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,480
ride by that thing, you know, on a hundred times, but

320
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,720
the one time that flags up, it looks different and

321
00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:41,920
they will shy away from it and that skittish towards it.

322
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,359
So you know, it's it's hard to say, like like

323
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,720
I said, you know, at the time, I thought she

324
00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:53,640
was talking about the smell, But in hindsight, she didn't

325
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,720
say what was that smell? You know, said what is that?

326
00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:04,599
And unfortunately I have no way of getting a hold

327
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:05,119
of this woman.

328
00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:09,599
Speaker 2: And this is forty years ago, so and she was

329
00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:11,319
three sheets to the wind, and.

330
00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:14,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't and when we got back to camp,

331
00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:16,920
I had to help her into her camper. That's how

332
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,160
that's how bad she was. So whether she would even

333
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,319
remember it, I don't know. Yeah, that's the weird smells

334
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:32,279
that I experienced. And then I had more that happened

335
00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:33,039
down there.

336
00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 2: In that same part.

337
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I've had what I think are four

338
00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:45,759
encounters down there total. Oh wow, the next one and

339
00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:51,480
again for the listeners. You know, I didn't believe in

340
00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:54,119
Bigfoot at the time, so I didn't write any of

341
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,279
this down. I don't even know what order any of

342
00:23:56,279 --> 00:24:01,480
this happened. But they these these encounters, if that's what

343
00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:03,920
you want to call them, stuck out in my mind,

344
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:09,079
you know, even after my rational mindset. They were just weird.

345
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:14,279
So my grandparents had a what Abago motor home if

346
00:24:14,319 --> 00:24:18,599
you remember the Winebago motorhose in like the seventies and eighties.

347
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:26,480
Above the captain's chairs was a loft bed, and me,

348
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:31,640
being the kid, that was my bed. Well, my grandparents,

349
00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:36,960
my grandpa, he would not run the air conditioner. He

350
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,240
would not run the generator to run the air conditioner.

351
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:43,599
So that's basically like an oven up there. You know,

352
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,559
it's just one hundred degrees outside all day long and

353
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:49,559
you climb up in there. Man, it is just it's

354
00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:53,160
horrible and there's no airflow. And so a lot of

355
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,759
times when it was hot, we would listen to the

356
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,000
radio for the weather forecast.

357
00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:01,599
Speaker 2: You know, this is long before cell phones and radar

358
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:02,119
and all.

359
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,039
Speaker 1: That, but we would listen to the radio and as

360
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:09,519
long as they weren't calling for rain, I would make

361
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:13,480
it bed in the horse trailer. And what I would

362
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:17,079
do is I would take Bell's hay, lay them out,

363
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:22,920
throw a tarp over them, grab a sheet and a blanket,

364
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,799
a pillow, and I would sleep in the horse trailer

365
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:29,079
because it was you know, twenty thirty degrees cooler. Yeah,

366
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,920
And there was one night. I can't tell you what

367
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,920
time of night it was, but when horses get thirsty,

368
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,880
they paw at the ground.

369
00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 2: You know.

370
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: The horses are tied up to basically hitching posts where

371
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,039
we're camping, and we would take them down to the

372
00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:53,480
creek to for their water. So's sometime in the middle

373
00:25:53,480 --> 00:26:02,240
of the night, I wake up to this bumping sound and.

374
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:11,519
Speaker 2: It was very rhythmic, but it was like dump sumph,

375
00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:12,960
very heavy sounding.

376
00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:17,599
Speaker 1: My initial thought was, okay, one of the horses is

377
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:20,680
pawing at the ground because they're thirsty in hindsight, though

378
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,480
normally when they paw, they pall a little faster than that.

379
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,440
But at the time, as I thought was, Okay, the

380
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,119
horses are thirsty, and if.

381
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: I don't get up.

382
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: And take them down to the creek, I'm gonna have

383
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,880
to listen to this all night long. So I throw

384
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,680
my blanket off and I grabbed my flashlight and as

385
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:52,160
soon as I turned the flashlight on, something outside the

386
00:26:52,160 --> 00:27:00,200
horse trailer takes off and it takes off in the

387
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,079
direction of the creek, and it is just crashing through

388
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:10,839
the trees and hear it take one step in the

389
00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:13,000
middle of the creek and then out the other side,

390
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:17,000
more crashing. And when I said crashing, it sounds like

391
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:21,880
a car driving through the woods, like your your ear

392
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,559
and branches break, and it sounds like it's running through

393
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:29,000
the trees, not just not not through the forest like

394
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,359
gets knocking stuff over as as it runs.

395
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: Off right, just bulldoze in a path. Right.

396
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,279
Speaker 1: My initial thought was that has to be the biggest

397
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:44,119
effing deer in the on the planet. I mean, I've

398
00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:47,440
used a deer hunt, but deer running through the woods

399
00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:51,240
like they don't, like they might hit some branches or

400
00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:54,880
some you know, scrub or whatever, but they don't. They

401
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,240
don't really run through the like not much noise, you know.

402
00:27:59,559 --> 00:28:05,599
And there down there everything's sandstone. It's it's real flat sandstone.

403
00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:08,960
And you know, as a kid, I would play in

404
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,279
this creek. And you cannot walk on this on these

405
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:21,359
these stones without making noise. Literally impossible, I mean unless

406
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,440
you're a ninja or something. I don't know, but the

407
00:28:24,519 --> 00:28:28,640
creek itself is probably twenty to thirty feet wide.

408
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: In my mind, I'm envisioning.

409
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: This deer jumping into the center of the creek and

410
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,160
then out the other side. Because there was only one

411
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,920
one football in the middle of this creek. That's that's

412
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,480
pretty impressive. I mean, that's you know, ten to fifteen

413
00:28:46,519 --> 00:28:52,480
feet stride. So I get up and I take the

414
00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:56,480
horses down, take them down two at a time. The

415
00:28:56,559 --> 00:28:58,880
horses did not want to go down to the creek

416
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,559
like r the old adage you can lead a horse

417
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:05,599
to water, but you can't make a drink. These horses

418
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:09,079
didn't just go down like, they didn't want to physically

419
00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:13,359
go down like I was pulling them. And when i'd

420
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,319
get them down to the creek. They're just twisting and

421
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,599
turning trying to get back up to the camp. And

422
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,599
I took all four horses down there. All four of

423
00:29:21,599 --> 00:29:26,359
them acted exactly the same, and so it obviously they

424
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,519
weren't thirsty, but they also also did not want to

425
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:33,559
be down there. And normally, you know, the darkness doesn't

426
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,440
doesn't spruit horses like that. You know, I've taken many

427
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,799
a horse down in the middle of the night to

428
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,000
get a drink and doesn't bother them.

429
00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: They didn't want to stay down there. Do you remember

430
00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:49,640
them reacting at all to whatever took off?

431
00:29:51,559 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: Now, when when the thumping sound was going on, I

432
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,279
did hear them kind of nickering, like one of them

433
00:29:58,319 --> 00:30:02,319
was nickering, you know, that just that little you know,

434
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,720
that little little thing that they do. But they also

435
00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:09,519
do that sometimes when they're thirsty. So but they will

436
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:14,039
also do that, you know, if they're happy to see

437
00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:19,559
somebody too, you know, So if they see a and

438
00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:22,559
this is all speculation, but if they were to have

439
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,759
seen like humanoid looking thing coming towards them, maybe they

440
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:28,519
thought it was a person.

441
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: You know.

442
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. But the thumping

443
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:34,720
sound is what gets me.

444
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:36,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

445
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: I and I wonder, now, had I been like in

446
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,039
a tent or something laying on the ground, had it

447
00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:47,519
would I have been able to feel it? But but

448
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,799
the tires of the horse trailer, you know, I didn't

449
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:51,480
feel anything.

450
00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:55,279
Speaker 2: Would it be common for you guys to like see

451
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:59,960
deer and stuff around camp on occasion?

452
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:06,039
Speaker 1: One occasion you might see one come in, but you know,

453
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,799
not normally. You know, everybody's got campfires going, And.

454
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:14,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just seems really odd for like, you know,

455
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,319
wildlife to be coming into a populated camp like that

456
00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:19,920
in the middle of the night.

457
00:31:20,519 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: Right now, we would get we would get possums and

458
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,039
raccoons and stuff, you know, coming in for the trash,

459
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,200
but I don't very rarely would we ever get deer

460
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:31,519
in there.

461
00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:32,519
Speaker 2: And usually that would be.

462
00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:39,119
Speaker 1: Early morning, you know, like at dawn. Sometimes they would

463
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,440
try to There's one part of the park where the

464
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:47,599
horsemen's camp they call it the day area or whatever,

465
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,279
but it was all grass and sometimes you would see

466
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:53,400
some of them up there grazing. But in the actual

467
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,559
part where the motor homes and the campers and horse

468
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:00,480
trailers and trucks and stuff, not normally. Just like I said,

469
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:04,559
you know, you had had campfires going, people milling around,

470
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:07,480
you know, all hours of the night, don't. I don't

471
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:10,079
ever recall like waking up and seeing a deer outside

472
00:32:10,119 --> 00:32:14,400
the horse trailer. Did it happened? Absolutely, But I don't

473
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,799
recall that ever happening.

474
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:19,039
Speaker 2: Now. I know I'm kind of jumping ahead here. But

475
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:28,440
or horses present and all of your experiences.

476
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:30,839
Speaker 1: Yes, as a matter of fact, they were. I've talked

477
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:34,599
about with my wife. We talked about going down down

478
00:32:34,599 --> 00:32:39,880
there this summer because I haven't been to down there

479
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:46,000
to camp in twenty years, ever since my son was

480
00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:48,559
like one, so almost twenty five years.

481
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,799
Speaker 2: So I would like to go back.

482
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: Down knowing what I know now, Yeah, you don't kind

483
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,200
of look around and maybe take some adio recorder and

484
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,319
things like that do what we catch. But yeah, every

485
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:07,160
every time that I hadn't experience, there were horses present.

486
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if that might have been some sort

487
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,440
of draw or attraction or something.

488
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,839
Speaker 1: I have heard on other shows. I've never taken a

489
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,359
report myself, but I've I've heard on other shows. You know,

490
00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:30,680
people that own horses say they've seen they believe sasquatch,

491
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:33,079
you know, braided their horses hair or.

492
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: You know.

493
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,759
Speaker 1: I have seen seen the horses interacting with sasquatch, So

494
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:42,480
I don't know. I've never personally taken them taken that encounter,

495
00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:44,720
but yeah, I heard it on another show.

496
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: I've heard lots of horse stories, lots of encounters while

497
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,160
people were on horseback. Yeah.

498
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,599
Speaker 1: I've often wondered, you know, I see how tear and

499
00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:59,200
other wildlife reacts when they see a person riding a horse,

500
00:33:59,319 --> 00:34:02,240
like they don't know what to make of it, right, Yeah,

501
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,920
deer look at you like, Okay, I smell horse, but

502
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,039
I also smell human that doesn't look like either one.

503
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,800
I always wonder if if sasquatch would have kind of

504
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,559
the same reaction to seeing people on horseback.

505
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:18,599
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean they might. I mean, can

506
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:23,039
you imagine if you were some animal. Not saying that

507
00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:26,239
sasquatch is animal, Calm down, folks, but I'm just saying, like,

508
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,119
if you were a deer and you saw like a

509
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,519
human riding an animal, how strange that would be to

510
00:34:32,599 --> 00:34:36,360
you to try and process? Right, right?

511
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,519
Speaker 1: I mean, that'd be like you're looking at your front

512
00:34:38,559 --> 00:34:42,920
window and seeing I don't know, a cat riding a dog.

513
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 2: You know, well, what is going on here? Again?

514
00:34:48,559 --> 00:34:53,639
Speaker 1: Another night in the horse trailer. And I do know

515
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,719
the time this happened, but I don't know the.

516
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: Date or the year.

517
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:04,039
Speaker 1: I will up to what I thought sounded kind of

518
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:11,280
like a tornado siren. And again we would always check

519
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,440
the radio before I went to bed to make sure

520
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,679
it wasn't going to rain, because I've gotten stuck in

521
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,480
that horse trailer when it rains and it sucked, I think,

522
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:22,480
you know, because it's it's like a stock trailer. It's

523
00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:28,480
got the open slits on the side, fair flow. But anyway,

524
00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:34,119
I wake up and I hear it. I can't even

525
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:36,639
imitate this, but you know, if you if you imagine

526
00:35:36,679 --> 00:35:40,639
a tornado siren where it starts off low and then

527
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:46,800
goes like high pitched. But but the tornado siren, you know,

528
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,679
it goes high as low.

529
00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: As high as low.

530
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: This started off low, went high and then cut off.

531
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,719
And I'm not sure exactly how long it hasted at

532
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,199
the time, you know, it seemed like it maybe twenty

533
00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:16,079
thirty seconds. But you know, I woke up hearing this

534
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:25,599
this weird, weird tornado sire. The Horseman's camp in Tar

535
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:31,400
Hollow State Park. The closest town is Londonderry, Ohio, and

536
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,639
by car it takes you about twenty minutes to get there.

537
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,480
The Horseman camp also sits down in a valley, so

538
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:40,800
you got ridges all the way around it between you

539
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:48,119
and Londonderry. So didn't makes sense that I was hearing

540
00:36:48,119 --> 00:36:55,719
tornado sirens from Londonderry. And the other thing was, when

541
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,199
I initially woke up, I'm like, that doesn't even sound

542
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:04,159
like it's coming from the direction of Londonderry. So I

543
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:10,400
laid there for a minute, I don't know how long, like, well,

544
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,880
I don't hear it anymore, and maybe maybe I dreamt it.

545
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:22,519
Then it happened again, and this time I'm awake, fully awake,

546
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:27,239
and I realized that this sound is coming from like

547
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:32,840
the center of the park. In the middle of Tarhaller

548
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,320
State Park. They do have a fire tower and I've

549
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,480
been I've climbed that fire tower countless times. I didn't

550
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:45,800
remember them having a tornado siren there. But you know,

551
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,039
at the time, I thought, maybe maybe they do, maybe

552
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:51,559
that maybe there's a tornado siren on the fire tower.

553
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:53,599
Speaker 2: But again.

554
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: Did that low to high and then just cut off

555
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,719
and it shut off.

556
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:03,639
Speaker 2: I don't know what this means is that's weird. I think.

557
00:38:04,119 --> 00:38:07,760
You know, sometimes those towers will have like those old

558
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,440
crank air sirens or whatever, but even if you like

559
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,199
stop cranking them, they still have to wind down. I

560
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:14,719
don't think they can just right abruptly.

561
00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:19,519
Speaker 1: Was this was a just a sharp cut off. So

562
00:38:19,599 --> 00:38:24,599
I lay there. I don't know how long. There's some

563
00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:26,719
I'm still processing it because I'm thinking, you know, if

564
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,360
that is a tornado siren, probably ought to wake some

565
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,360
people up, you know, but I'm not hearing it anymore.

566
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,679
It happens a third time, like, okay, I gotta get up,

567
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:43,480
I gotta get I gotta go and at least listen

568
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,599
to the radio, you know, find out what this is about.

569
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,519
By the time I get out of the horse trailer

570
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:53,079
and you know, get my shoes and stuff on, and

571
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:57,440
it had cut it cut off again. As I'm making

572
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,320
my way into the camper. It happens a fourth time,

573
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,639
and so I go into camper and you know, I'm

574
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:10,239
trying to be quiet, trying to find the radio, but

575
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,679
I wake my grandpa up. And this is the only

576
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,400
reason I know what time it is, because he's looked

577
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,199
at his watch and said, why are you waking me

578
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,119
up at two o'clock in the morning. Uh, And I

579
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:24,679
told him, I said, you know, I think I hear

580
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,119
tornado sirens. I said, I want to listen to the radio.

581
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,880
But we turned on the radio and nothing. No clear skies,

582
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,880
it's no rain, nothing. So he yells at me and says,

583
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,440
you must have dreamt to go back to bed. So

584
00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:43,719
I didn't, you know, it was another one of those

585
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,519
just weird things that yeah, you know, Grapple said, you know,

586
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:49,800
there wasn't that. There was no weather, so it couldn't

587
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,800
have been a tornado siren. Maybe I did dream it

588
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:54,119
that I know, I didn't.

589
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:54,639
Speaker 2: You know.

590
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: It happened four times. I heard it while I was walking,

591
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:04,199
you know. And so I brought up Sasquatch Chronicles earlier.

592
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,480
And that's the first place I ever heard the.

593
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: Ohio how.

594
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,519
Speaker 1: And when that recording played, every hair on my body

595
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:18,199
stood up because that's what I.

596
00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 2: Heard that night in Ohio. In Ohio.

597
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it would have been around the same time

598
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:32,159
that Moneymaker recorded that. It would have been early nineties,

599
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,440
late eighties, early nineties.

600
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:35,039
Speaker 2: Wow.

601
00:40:35,639 --> 00:40:40,599
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, like I said, I can't say that

602
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:47,519
any of these were definitely sasquatch, right, But you know,

603
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:52,119
after hearing people's encounters looking back, it's like, you know,

604
00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:56,480
that's that's pretty pretty similar to what I hear. And

605
00:40:56,519 --> 00:40:59,440
then of course Aaron the Ohio how recording and other

606
00:40:59,519 --> 00:41:04,519
recordings similar. You know, the Ohio How gets you know,

607
00:41:04,599 --> 00:41:07,599
the gets hurt all the time. But you know, you

608
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:10,440
hear other recordings of How's all across the country that

609
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:15,440
sound very similar. That's what I heard that night. And

610
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,360
we I mean, we don't have coyotes, but we don't

611
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,719
have wolves, you know, nothing that's gonna howl like that.

612
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 2: And that abrupt cutoff, that's that's so bizarre.

613
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: It was like it was almost like a person screaming

614
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,079
and like running out an aeronym boom.

615
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,599
Speaker 2: And just got off. There wasn't a person screaming.

616
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:39,199
Speaker 1: Then, I'm just saying, you know, I'm using that as

617
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:46,360
a an analogy. But yeah, it was louder, it was.

618
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 2: And it echoed through the through the forest, and.

619
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: But it wasn't it wasn't so loud that I don't

620
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,400
think if I'd be inside the camper, I would have

621
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:07,320
heard it. You know, I'm I'm I'm basically sleeping outside

622
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:12,880
at this point, and you know, I'm I'm always listening

623
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,239
for the horses, and you know, like I said earlier,

624
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,440
you know, I heard what I thought was the horses pawing.

625
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: At the ground. That woke me up. So, you know,

626
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:26,119
just it was something different. I wanted to ask you.

627
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:30,039
You said you heard it four different times. Was there

628
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:32,440
a pattern to it or was it like kind of

629
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,400
sporadic spaced apart?

630
00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: It was sporadic because like the last two times I

631
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,360
heard it, I bet it happened within a minute, minute

632
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,000
and a half of each other. The gap between the

633
00:42:48,039 --> 00:42:51,760
first one, the second one, and the third one there

634
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,719
might have been I don't know, or five six minutes

635
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,639
in between. Is I laid there contemplating what, you know,

636
00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:02,519
did I really hear that? And then the second time

637
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:06,199
it's like, okay, that's not the right direction. Is am

638
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,599
I hearing a tornado siren? You know I had time

639
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:11,199
to you know, lay there and think about it.

640
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, and each time from the same direction.

641
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,079
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah it was. It was absolutely from towards the

642
00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:25,599
center of the park and in the opposite direction of

643
00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:29,719
the nearest town. So you know, look like again, you know,

644
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:35,000
hindsight's twenty twenty, and after hearing all these encounters, you know,

645
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,119
I do believe I heard the Ohio How that night

646
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,440
for what what's been called the Ohio How.

647
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm sure you've heard you know, coyotes

648
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,400
and sirens and all kinds of noises since then. And

649
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,119
you hear a recording of the Ohio How and you're like, yeah,

650
00:43:52,159 --> 00:43:52,599
that's it.

651
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: I mean literally, when I was at work listening to

652
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:03,000
Sasquatch chronicles and have my headphones, and every hair on

653
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:06,719
my body stood up and I shivered because it is like,

654
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,719
took me back to that night, that's what I heard.

655
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,039
Speaker 2: And that happens to so many people, you know that

656
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,400
don't even think about Bigfoot. It's not on their minds,

657
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:23,079
doesn't exist, whatever, And then later on in life they

658
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:26,199
get into the subject or they have an encounter, and

659
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,639
then they start reflecting back on those little things that

660
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,159
you know, always stuck with them that they couldn't quite

661
00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:35,800
explain or put their finger on. And like you're saying,

662
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,920
there's so many similarities, how can you deny that? Right?

663
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,159
Speaker 1: The other thing that you get is, and I'm sure

664
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:49,519
you've been through this, you tell people, you know what

665
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:52,719
you're well, this is a hobby for me, you know,

666
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,679
taking these paranormal encounters, you know, telling people coming in

667
00:44:56,679 --> 00:44:59,280
and telling their stories. People make fun of you a

668
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,559
little bit, sure, and then after a few minutes of talking,

669
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,199
they'll be like, well, you know there was this one time.

670
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:13,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well now that you said that, actually right,

671
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:20,440
You start explaining things to him and like, well, you know, yeah,

672
00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:22,599
I did hear something weird that one night. So I'm

673
00:45:22,639 --> 00:45:28,079
like somebody talking in the woods. Hearing you tell those stories.

674
00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:30,079
It actually reminded me of something that happened to me

675
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:33,000
whenever I was a kid, Like I said, I was

676
00:45:33,079 --> 00:45:38,360
raised by my great grandparents, and whenever I was probably, oh,

677
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:44,559
I think I was four or five years old, they

678
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,320
bought a boat dock on the lake about an hour

679
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,079
and a half outside of town where we lived, and

680
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,599
we started going up there. And we had only been

681
00:45:56,679 --> 00:45:59,800
up there once or twice I think at this point

682
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,159
we hadn't had it very long, and whenever we would go,

683
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,199
eventually we started sleeping in the boat dock on cots

684
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:14,039
and everything. It was an enclosed boat house. And eventually

685
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:16,840
they bought you know, a trailer on some property nearby

686
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,559
and all that, but we had an old truck camper

687
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,679
that'd go on the back of the pickup truck, and

688
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,840
that's what we would sleep in. There's a queen size

689
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,800
bed on the inside, and there was storage space basically

690
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:34,320
completely underneath the bed that I would sleep in as

691
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,199
a little kid, you know, under the bed. And I

692
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:44,239
remember one night specifically, I woke up as my grandpa

693
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,960
was coming back into the camper and there was a

694
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,320
little interior light that you could switch on and off

695
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,800
next to the door, and it was on and he

696
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,440
didn't wake me up whenever he went out, but it

697
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,679
woke me up whenever he was coming back in, and

698
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,719
I saw that he had a gun in his hand,

699
00:47:05,559 --> 00:47:08,840
and so like, I'm freaked up, you know, like what's

700
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,360
going on? What are you doing? And I remember him

701
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:21,960
saying somebody was snooping around outside, and my grandma was like,

702
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,920
who was it? And he said, you know, something like, oh,

703
00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:32,800
it was probably just a hog and he closed the

704
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,519
door one. Yeah, at first he said someone, and then

705
00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:39,639
he said a hog, and then later on life. Keep

706
00:47:39,679 --> 00:47:42,000
in mind, like I said, we bought this property when

707
00:47:42,199 --> 00:47:46,960
I was like five at the latest, and so I

708
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:51,320
was up there weekly for the rest of my life.

709
00:47:51,639 --> 00:47:54,960
Never saw any hog sign, never saw any hogs up there.

710
00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:03,800
Nothing and my ground paw. I mean, if it had

711
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,440
been a person, there's there's nowhere that they could have hid.

712
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:11,039
They couldn't have ran out of sight. There were woods,

713
00:48:11,519 --> 00:48:15,199
but the woods were at least a quarter mile from

714
00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:16,920
where we were. I mean we were literally on the

715
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,599
edge of the water, and then it's just a big

716
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,599
open field area and then the woods on the other

717
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:29,119
side of the field. So was this uh this boat dock?

718
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:34,079
Speaker 1: Did it sit like empty for a while, like not

719
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:36,880
in use before before your grandparents bought it.

720
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 2: I don't have any idea. The property was owned by

721
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:48,800
this guy, and at that time there wasn't hardly It

722
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,519
was actually a cove on a lake, and the property

723
00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:55,559
itself was kind of triangle shaped, with the boat dock

724
00:48:55,639 --> 00:48:58,440
being at the point, and it was the only dock

725
00:48:58,519 --> 00:49:01,719
that was down there. There were some larger docks a

726
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,679
little bit down or further up in the cove, but

727
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,519
they weren't enclosed or anything. They were just rental slips.

728
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,360
And then at the entrance to the property, which again

729
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:16,880
was probably I mean it was more than a quarter

730
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,480
mile but probably not quite half a mile, there were

731
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:24,239
a few mobile home trailers and then the rest of

732
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,400
the park was just empty. It was for like you know,

733
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,480
weekenders with their RVs and campers and stuff, and we

734
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,400
were the only people down there. I mean, there was nobody.

735
00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:40,159
And it wasn't until you know, years later that people

736
00:49:40,199 --> 00:49:43,159
started kind of populating the park and moving more trailers

737
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:43,920
in and everything.

738
00:49:45,519 --> 00:49:52,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you do hear you do hear about sasquatch

739
00:49:52,159 --> 00:49:53,239
and stuff like that.

740
00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 2: In around boat docks.

741
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:02,599
Speaker 1: Kind of remember it was that the Pike County Monster

742
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,000
in Indiana where people were being terrorized at the boat dock.

743
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,039
That's when it comes to mind.

744
00:50:09,159 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, you also hear a lot of stuff about

745
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:18,239
boat ramps and it was right by a boat ramp too. Yeah.

746
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,559
Years later, I would end up, you know, becoming a

747
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:26,840
bigfoot investigator later on in life, and I actually did

748
00:50:27,199 --> 00:50:30,639
kind of research the area a little bit. There was

749
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,440
a sighting not too far from there, and I did

750
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:39,760
find a track and some strange stick structures and a

751
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,719
few other weird things on down the road from there,

752
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:48,760
not directly there, but nearby and definitely within you know

753
00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:53,760
range that it could have been. You know, I guess

754
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,719
a bigfoot. I don't really have an explanation. I don't

755
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,280
know what it was. My grandpa, you know, hunting, fishing

756
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,360
his entire life, living off the land. You know, they

757
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,719
don't make them like him anymore, and so it was

758
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,280
just it was very peculiar to me, and it just

759
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,079
kind of always stuck with me that something got him

760
00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:15,719
spooked and got him out of the camp or with

761
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,119
a gun in the middle of the night, and he

762
00:51:18,199 --> 00:51:20,760
never fired a shot or really acted like he knew

763
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,079
what it was, and just very strange.

764
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,559
Speaker 1: It just it sticks out to me that he said

765
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,679
someone at first and then changed his tuning to a hog.

766
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:36,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I didn't even hear about hoggs

767
00:51:36,639 --> 00:51:45,159
until geez, another ten to fifteen years after that was

768
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:47,320
the first time I would say I ever even heard

769
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,519
about like hogs being in the state, let alone that

770
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:54,920
part of the state. And like I said, never saw

771
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,760
any hog sign, never saw any hogs, never heard about

772
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,159
anybody seeing any This all seems kind of weird.

773
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: We we have uh dogs were introduced, we have faral

774
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:06,679
hogs done.

775
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: Southeast Ohio as well.

776
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:13,559
Speaker 1: But I don't remember back, like you said, growing up,

777
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,000
ever even hearing about it. But now you you do

778
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:20,559
hear about it, and you know, they're a nuisance animal. Yeah,

779
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,840
but you know, never heard of your you know, and

780
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,239
even even back then black bear, I mean you would

781
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:33,960
care of one every once, maybe five six years. They're

782
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,280
they're slowly coming back into you know, southern Ohio. But

783
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:39,079
back then, no.

784
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 2: I did have.

785
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,639
Speaker 1: There was that there was a guy who there was

786
00:52:44,679 --> 00:52:48,760
a Tar Hollow. Again, he was a kid. He was

787
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,920
a little bit older than me, so he might have

788
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,079
been eighteen at the time.

789
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,599
Speaker 2: He went down there deer hunting, and.

790
00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: He said that he was coming back to camp and

791
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,960
he was staying in the horseman's camp, so I know

792
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:10,960
the trails that he was on. He was coming back

793
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,960
into camp, and he said he came across a black bear.

794
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:17,639
He said that he went back to the top of

795
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:19,760
the ridge, followed the ridge all the way around, and

796
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,760
came in from the other side of the camp.

797
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: Well, he went.

798
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,559
Speaker 1: Probably five miles out of his way to get back

799
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:35,119
into camp, and you know, everybody was making fun of

800
00:53:35,159 --> 00:53:39,880
him for it. But he also never came back to

801
00:53:40,079 --> 00:53:46,320
Tarhallow after that, like to ride or anything. So looking back,

802
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,880
I wonder if he didn't say bear and he saw

803
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:50,280
something else and he.

804
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,280
Speaker 2: Was deer honeing at the time. I mean, so he

805
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,280
was armed with something, you know.

806
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,079
Speaker 1: And now that's what we all said, is like, you know,

807
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:03,599
if if if you felt threatened by the bear, you

808
00:54:03,679 --> 00:54:04,760
take it out, you know.

809
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:09,159
Speaker 2: And you know nobody's gonna question that. Yeah, you know,

810
00:54:09,199 --> 00:54:13,119
holy but he didn't. He went to the.

811
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 1: Top of the ridge, walked all the way around, and

812
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,559
didn't get back until after dark. Because he went, you know,

813
00:54:19,639 --> 00:54:22,960
I'd say that's at least at least three miles out

814
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,079
of his way to get around to the other side

815
00:54:25,079 --> 00:54:26,639
of the park or the other side of the camp.

816
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 2: That just doesn't seem like.

817
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: A as a hunter. If I would have come across

818
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,360
the bear, I might have fired a shot up in

819
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,559
the air to scare the thing off, right, you know,

820
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:43,159
that's not what he did. He turned tail and don't

821
00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:45,199
way out of his way for a bear, And I

822
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:45,960
just don't see it.

823
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 2: And if you're scared, you're you're not. You're going to

824
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,440
take the shortest route, not the longest route. That's what

825
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:53,159
I would think too.

826
00:54:53,519 --> 00:54:57,559
Speaker 1: You know, there was other trails that he could have

827
00:54:57,559 --> 00:55:00,440
come down. He could have come down the road. There's

828
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,159
a road that comes down in front of the camp.

829
00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:05,960
He went all the way around this this ridge line

830
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,360
to come in, and he went way out of his way.

831
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,199
Speaker 2: Let's just put it that way.

832
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: And it just never made sense to us, and we

833
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,159
make fun of him for being afraid of the bear.

834
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,480
But again, he never came back forced back riding or

835
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:24,639
camping again either. So that was the last time I

836
00:55:24,639 --> 00:55:28,039
ever saw him. I don't know. Maybe maybe he saw

837
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,760
something more and just didn't want to say bigfoot because

838
00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:34,159
he'd heard us make fun of the other guy.

839
00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:41,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, now in our Facebook conversation, you mentioned

840
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:47,480
something else that you have experienced, and I have been

841
00:55:47,519 --> 00:55:48,480
waiting patiently.

842
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: I will warn you now that this is still pretty

843
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:08,519
pretty fresh. I happened in November of last year, and.

844
00:56:10,199 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 2: I have trouble telling this one. Take your time, if

845
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:25,280
you need a break, that's fine. I should be all right.

846
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:30,440
I'm just really wanting to hear this story because this

847
00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:35,599
is something that's kind of plaguing my thoughts a little.

848
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,880
I can say it's plagued mine since it happened, so yeah,

849
00:56:40,119 --> 00:56:44,519
I can only imagine. So yeah, I'll shut up now.

850
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:46,639
The floor is yours.

851
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: November thirtieth, twenty twenty four, my wife and I I

852
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,320
don't think I said this at the beginning. I live

853
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,320
in Indiana.

854
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 2: I live really.

855
00:56:59,679 --> 00:57:04,599
Speaker 1: Close the Ohio Indiana border. My wife and I had

856
00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:10,960
spent the day Christmas shopping in Greenville, Ohio, and it's

857
00:57:11,039 --> 00:57:15,440
a not a forty minute drive from Greenville.

858
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 2: My house.

859
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:23,519
Speaker 1: And I have to go through Union City of Ohio.

860
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,960
Well at Union City of Ohio, and Indiana's right on

861
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:40,239
the border. And being about seven o'clock at night, my

862
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:45,079
wife we were driving this is State Route twenty eight,

863
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:56,239
coming out of the Union City, headed northwest, and my

864
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,360
wife was on her phone, this is all this is

865
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,800
all farmland. You know, there's no you know, you get

866
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,480
the occasional, you know, like security light at a farm

867
00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:10,280
or something like that, but there's no either lights. I

868
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:19,239
saw corn fields, streams and stuff like that. We're headed

869
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:24,599
out towards home and my wife is ora phone. He's

870
00:58:24,639 --> 00:58:28,639
putting in a Walmart order, but she's not paying attention to.

871
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 2: The road that I am.

872
00:58:31,239 --> 00:58:38,519
Speaker 1: Because if you're from the country, you know that that.

873
00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:41,199
Speaker 2: Time of year, deer very active.

874
00:58:43,239 --> 00:58:47,519
Speaker 1: And like I grew up in the country, so miss

875
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:48,760
I'm knock one wood.

876
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 2: I've never had a deer. I probably just danks myself,

877
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:57,519
but uh missed, barely missed a few so in front

878
00:58:57,559 --> 00:58:57,719
of me.

879
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: It's hard to till at night, but I would I

880
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:10,039
would guess maybe quarter mile qu a mile in front

881
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:13,920
of me was another vehicle. And you know, this part

882
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,800
of Indiana is very you know, you can see for miles,

883
00:59:18,199 --> 00:59:19,840
so I can see, I can see the car in

884
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:34,000
front of me, and would cross this little little creek.

885
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,079
I think it's called Miller's Stream. I think it's what

886
00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:43,039
it's called. And again I'm watching the vehicle in front

887
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,480
of me to see if it swerves or it's its

888
00:59:45,559 --> 00:59:46,239
breaks or anything.

889
00:59:46,239 --> 01:00:00,239
Speaker 2: And it didn't. But we crossed this creek and mh.

890
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: Something appears in the road. And when I say appears,

891
01:00:11,519 --> 01:00:15,760
I'm not sure. I'm not sure if that's even the

892
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,280
right word. I noticed something in the road, let's put

893
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:33,480
it that way. It's on the center line, and when

894
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:37,159
it first comes into view, it is what.

895
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:42,559
Speaker 2: Looks to me to be the upper body of a

896
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:54,000
man that is holding itself up with its knuckles. Yeah.

897
01:00:54,159 --> 01:00:57,079
Speaker 1: All I see is basically the upper body from like

898
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:05,039
the the just the torso, the head and the arms,

899
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:13,840
and it is looking to its right, but its body

900
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:24,000
is facing me, and as I got a little closer,

901
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,519
it turned its head and it looked at me.

902
01:01:36,599 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 2: This figure was.

903
01:01:41,239 --> 01:01:54,519
Speaker 1: Gray like cigarette ash gray. And when it turned and looked,

904
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:02,280
there's like it didn't have eyes like there was just.

905
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 2: It was just black. It was there was nothing, and

906
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:19,320
I didn't have any clothes on that night.

907
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: It was it was around freezing. We'd we'd had snow flurries.

908
01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 2: It was.

909
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:38,599
Speaker 1: It was kind of muscular, not like body build and muscular,

910
01:02:38,679 --> 01:02:39,679
but like bit.

911
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,159
Speaker 2: I could see. I could see like the muscles in

912
01:02:44,239 --> 01:02:48,199
the chest and then the arms and the shoulders and

913
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:56,960
and uh. But it turned and looked at me, and

914
01:02:59,119 --> 01:02:59,920
the face.

915
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: There was no mouth or no nose from where like

916
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,159
the eye sockets were, That's what it looked like to me.

917
01:03:12,199 --> 01:03:14,960
It was just two eye sockets, but I couldn't see

918
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:16,039
like the backs of them.

919
01:03:16,519 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 2: It was just black.

920
01:03:19,159 --> 01:03:26,239
Speaker 1: And from like the eye sockets down it was like flat.

921
01:03:28,119 --> 01:03:30,039
I couldn't see a mouth, I couldn't see a nose,

922
01:03:30,159 --> 01:03:30,880
like not even.

923
01:03:30,679 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: A bump or anything.

924
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:44,119
Speaker 1: Had no hair, I did. I didn't see any ears.

925
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:46,960
I don't know that whether it had them or not,

926
01:03:47,079 --> 01:03:48,920
I don't know. Because I was I can see as

927
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:58,039
I saw was the eyes. So you know, all this,

928
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,920
all this took place in probably a matter of five seconds.

929
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,320
It takes me a second to process that I'm seeing

930
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:17,679
something there. And as I get close to it, so

931
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:22,039
it's up on the snuckles on its fists and with

932
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:27,440
its right hand, it took like a step.

933
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 2: Towards me.

934
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:38,519
Speaker 1: With its left hand it lunged at the bar. I

935
01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:43,079
swerved just as it like made that move towards me.

936
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 2: And my wife.

937
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: You know, she looks up from her phone and I

938
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:56,280
was like, did you see that? Of course she didn't,

939
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:02,880
but I just I take off, you know, I got

940
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:08,239
to get out of there. It took me several minutes.

941
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:11,880
By my wife's asking me, you know what's going on.

942
01:05:12,039 --> 01:05:17,519
I couldn't even talk. Took me several minutes to be

943
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:22,960
able to tell her what I saw. And she asked me,

944
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:30,760
She's like, do you want to go back? And I

945
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:36,719
said to no, I don't know what I just saw,

946
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:42,639
but it shouldn't exist, and I am I'm shaking at

947
01:05:42,679 --> 01:05:51,880
this point. So we end up getting home and as

948
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:55,440
I mentioned in the beginning of the show, I'd become

949
01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:04,280
good friends with the guys from Nevermore Hollows, and I

950
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:11,079
called Alan, because one I knew that, and I needed

951
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:14,639
to talk to somebody that would believe me the one

952
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:23,840
and two that I felt comfortable enough telling. So I

953
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,440
call him to tell him what happened, and he gets

954
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:31,440
his co host on the line. They talked me down.

955
01:06:31,559 --> 01:06:36,320
They talked me through it. Tell me make sure you

956
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,840
write all this down. You don't forget anything. And like

957
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,840
I said, I am, I'm on the phone with him,

958
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,800
I'm crying, oh.

959
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:50,199
Speaker 2: Shaking, And they asked me.

960
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: They's like, did you hit it? And at the time,

961
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,400
I didn't remember hitting anything. You know, if if you've

962
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,239
ever get an animal on the road.

963
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:08,039
Speaker 2: You feel it, you hear it. But I didn't. I didn't.

964
01:07:08,079 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: I didn't feel anything. So we talked for I don't

965
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:20,320
know ten or fifteen minutes, and I need a cigarette,

966
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:27,760
so I go outside. I was still I'm better because

967
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,880
I had talked to them, but I got my thinking

968
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:37,800
and I was like, maybe I did hit it. So

969
01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:43,079
walked out and I checked the front fender. There was

970
01:07:43,159 --> 01:07:49,599
nothing or damage or anything. I get through the driver

971
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:56,079
door and there were four.

972
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,639
Speaker 2: Like finger marks down the side of the car from

973
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:04,000
like where road salt was on the car.

974
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: And I'll send you the pictures. If you imagine or

975
01:08:15,519 --> 01:08:21,920
your your just your four fingers, not your thumb, and

976
01:08:24,159 --> 01:08:31,279
if you're reaching out with your left hand and these marks,

977
01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:34,920
it looks like the pinky finger and the ring finger

978
01:08:35,239 --> 01:08:39,159
are very close together, and then the other two fingers

979
01:08:39,199 --> 01:08:40,079
are spread out.

980
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:47,279
Speaker 2: From fingertip to fingertip with eight inches. And it left

981
01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:51,920
a streak maybe two and a half three feet down

982
01:08:51,960 --> 01:09:00,880
the side of the car. I see this, and I.

983
01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 1: Run back in the house and my wife, she said,

984
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,720
I had no color to my face. She's like, what happened.

985
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:13,399
I tell her, you know, it touched the car. And

986
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,159
so I go out and I take some pictures, and

987
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,640
then the next morning I got up and took more

988
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,680
in daylight. But I will send you those pictures. This

989
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:31,880
thing did touch my vehicle, and the vehicle has been

990
01:09:32,159 --> 01:09:34,279
washed since then. And I noticed the other day that

991
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,960
there is still one stripe down to the bottom. I

992
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:39,399
don't know if I just think, get it clean enough,

993
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,640
but you just still see one of the finger marks

994
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:51,640
at the very base of the door. And my initial

995
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:54,479
thought was raked.

996
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 2: I saw a rake, and.

997
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 1: I never saw I never saw the lower body, so

998
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:07,119
I didn't I didn't know exactly what I saw, but

999
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:16,479
I started looking into well the break for one, and

1000
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,000
then I also started looking into what's in that area.

1001
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,000
I didn't realize it at the time, but when I

1002
01:10:26,079 --> 01:10:30,279
went back and back down that road. But actually I

1003
01:10:30,359 --> 01:10:32,880
put it up on Google Maps, so I wanted to

1004
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:34,159
drop a pin where it happened.

1005
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:37,279
Speaker 2: I could take you to that spot. I mean, then.

1006
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: Every time I drive through there now I feel anxious.

1007
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,079
I refused to drive that stretch of road by myself

1008
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,039
at night. I will drive twenty miles out of the

1009
01:10:52,039 --> 01:10:56,319
way to avoid that area. But but then a hundred

1010
01:10:56,399 --> 01:10:59,920
yards of that where it happened, there was a.

1011
01:11:02,319 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 2: Cemetery. They started looking into the cemetery, and the local.

1012
01:11:12,279 --> 01:11:18,399
Speaker 1: Historical society doesn't know who walls buried there. The cemetery

1013
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:21,279
is so old and the records are so poorly kept,

1014
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,560
and you can't read a lot of the headstone. So

1015
01:11:25,079 --> 01:11:29,239
they do know that the cemetery we've been there since

1016
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:34,840
probably it was seventeen hundreds, early eighteen hundreds. They have

1017
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,000
no clues buried there, so that kind of was a

1018
01:11:37,039 --> 01:11:47,079
dead end. This all happened along the missis Senewa River

1019
01:11:48,239 --> 01:11:50,279
and that stream that I was talking about as a

1020
01:11:50,399 --> 01:11:58,000
tributary to the mississ Seniwa River, and I think it's

1021
01:11:58,119 --> 01:12:02,840
nine miles from where I had my encounter. Up the

1022
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,239
missus Shnowa River is a Native American burial ground or

1023
01:12:06,279 --> 01:12:07,039
burial mound.

1024
01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:16,079
Speaker 2: So I started looking into all the different Native American

1025
01:12:16,119 --> 01:12:24,640
stuff happened in this area. Within roughly ten miles of

1026
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,840
my encounter.

1027
01:12:28,399 --> 01:12:37,159
Speaker 1: There are three different burial mounds, one of which have

1028
01:12:37,239 --> 01:12:41,000
you ever heard of Fritz Zummerman, Yeah, I think so.

1029
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:46,239
He did the Encyclopedia of the Mounds. Yeah, for the listeners.

1030
01:12:46,319 --> 01:12:50,560
He he researched all these different burial mounds.

1031
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 2: He's the one that went on around and like cataloged

1032
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:58,159
as many mountains as he could find, wasn't he correct?

1033
01:12:58,199 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 1: And he was finding them on private proper and stuff

1034
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,640
like that. And when I say private property, like privately owned,

1035
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,439
not not on government own land or whatever.

1036
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 2: And that's that's where you have that. He found like

1037
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:14,079
a total of like ninety in Indiana and Ohio, this

1038
01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:21,319
this whole area. But I have I full disclosure, I

1039
01:13:21,359 --> 01:13:22,000
have not read the.

1040
01:13:22,039 --> 01:13:25,279
Speaker 1: Encyclopedia of the Mounds, but I did find an excerpt

1041
01:13:26,039 --> 01:13:29,520
when I searched the county that I've lived in that

1042
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:34,079
pointed to that book that there was a burial mound

1043
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:37,600
found in my county that had oversized.

1044
01:13:37,039 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 2: Remains in it. And then there's there's a pretty.

1045
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:47,239
Speaker 1: Decently known mound I'm just south of there too, it's

1046
01:13:47,359 --> 01:13:50,119
well documented. The other two are not as well documented.

1047
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:54,880
The one that's along the river actually is desecrated because

1048
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,399
it has a English burial or English graveyard on top

1049
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:03,560
of it. And I wanted to go see that, but

1050
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:07,199
it's on private property and the owners do not people

1051
01:14:07,279 --> 01:14:13,640
to go on to the see the mold. So so yeah,

1052
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,760
so I told my story and on TikTok my TikTok Live,

1053
01:14:22,119 --> 01:14:27,560
and I had a gentleman named Rod from Lodge Tales

1054
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,560
podcasts and he is a member of the Blackfoot tribe.

1055
01:14:32,199 --> 01:14:34,800
He reached out to me because he heard my story.

1056
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:38,199
Speaker 2: And asked me some questions.

1057
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 1: And like I said, I could never saw lower body

1058
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:44,960
this thing, and when I talked to Alan, I even

1059
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,359
said it kind of looked like this thing was coming

1060
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:52,800
up out of the ground. So Rod asked me some

1061
01:14:53,039 --> 01:15:00,680
questions and he said that they have a spirit called

1062
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:05,720
dragging an trails full of dirt. When he described this creature,

1063
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:10,319
kind of a lot like what I saw, and somebody

1064
01:15:10,359 --> 01:15:13,319
else contact me and say they thought I'd seen a melusa.

1065
01:15:16,319 --> 01:15:19,680
When I first looked into the melusa, it kind of

1066
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:24,479
fit because one of the things that the melusa does

1067
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:30,840
is gives you the feeling of overwhelming sorrow and fear.

1068
01:15:33,319 --> 01:15:37,239
That is basically what I felt.

1069
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:38,520
Speaker 2: That night seeing this thing.

1070
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 1: You know, I was afraid and I was crying, and

1071
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:50,199
even now, you know, just just talking about it, you know,

1072
01:15:53,079 --> 01:15:59,279
I see the space and circling back. You know, the

1073
01:15:59,359 --> 01:16:02,760
more I look in two of them, more I or

1074
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:06,680
other Rake encounters. You know, when when I when I

1075
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:08,239
was thinking of the rake, I was thinking of this

1076
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:16,159
emaciated skinny you know, I don't know what you want

1077
01:16:16,199 --> 01:16:19,439
to call it, a pale crawler, that's the other term

1078
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:25,520
for it, but you know, just this emaciated person. But

1079
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:30,560
then I started hearing other encounters where it talk about

1080
01:16:31,039 --> 01:16:36,000
ones that are a little beefier and muscular. And you know,

1081
01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:41,319
after it's been what eight months now, I've kind of

1082
01:16:41,399 --> 01:16:43,520
come back full circle, and I do believe what I

1083
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:44,760
saw that night was a rake.

1084
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think about how to unpack this. There's

1085
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,319
a lot there. Yeah, you already answered my first question,

1086
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:01,640
which was what emotions did you feel whenever you saw

1087
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:02,159
this thing?

1088
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,199
Speaker 1: And not only when I first saw it, like even

1089
01:17:08,239 --> 01:17:12,439
retelling it, you know, I actually did pretty decent retelling

1090
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,279
at this time. There there's been I've told my story

1091
01:17:15,359 --> 01:17:17,319
on a couple other shows.

1092
01:17:17,079 --> 01:17:17,159
Speaker 2: And.

1093
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 1: I did have to take a break telling it. But

1094
01:17:25,039 --> 01:17:27,840
then even now, you know, I go down that road

1095
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:32,119
maybe twice a month to go back home and visit

1096
01:17:32,199 --> 01:17:36,920
family and stuff like that. And uh, like I said,

1097
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:41,399
I I for the first couple of months, I would

1098
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:46,359
white knuckle the steering wheel driving down that road because

1099
01:17:46,399 --> 01:17:50,199
of the anxiety and the I could just feel my

1100
01:17:50,359 --> 01:17:54,520
heart pounding in my chest and my neck. And I

1101
01:17:55,279 --> 01:17:58,079
even now I will not drive down that road by myself.

1102
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,840
And I and I don't even know every time I'm

1103
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:06,079
afraid I'm going to see it again, or if it's

1104
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:11,239
that if I did see it again, I don't think

1105
01:18:11,239 --> 01:18:12,560
I could tell anybody.

1106
01:18:14,199 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 2: Because.

1107
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,680
Speaker 1: It's crazy enough that I've that I saw it the

1108
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:22,840
first time, and if I said I saw it again,

1109
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:25,720
nobody's gonna believe me, you know.

1110
01:18:27,359 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 2: And that's a horrible feeling. Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent it

1111
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:37,239
from happening. I'm not saying it will happen. I mean,

1112
01:18:38,319 --> 01:18:41,720
the odds of seeing something like that are already astronomicals

1113
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:46,960
seeing something like that twice. I don't know. If that

1114
01:18:47,079 --> 01:18:50,039
were to happen, then there's something at play here that's

1115
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:52,520
far beyond just a sighting of something.

1116
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:54,479
Speaker 1: Have you?

1117
01:18:54,640 --> 01:19:02,319
Speaker 2: Have you noticed any strange or paranormal stuff happening around

1118
01:19:02,359 --> 01:19:05,319
you since that siding? That has been the last thing

1119
01:19:05,399 --> 01:19:08,479
that's that's happened to me. Friend of mine, I mean,

1120
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,199
you know how it is you you mean a lot

1121
01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:15,199
of podcasters, but uh, another podcaster friend of mine. He

1122
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:21,439
he brought up, you know, the whole quote from nietzschee.

1123
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:24,079
Speaker 1: You know, and sometimes when you stare into the abyss,

1124
01:19:24,119 --> 01:19:28,399
the abyss stares back, and it does. It does seem

1125
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:34,720
odd that this would happen. After I started taking people's

1126
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:41,359
encounters right and listening to other people, and like, I

1127
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,720
kind of, you know, when it first happened, I kind

1128
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,520
of thought, maybe maybe this is the the other side

1129
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:54,239
or the paranormal saying hey, you know, we see you

1130
01:19:54,359 --> 01:20:00,880
looking at us, you know, maybe maybe trying to scare

1131
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:06,520
me from continuing down this path. If anything, it made

1132
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:09,079
me want to look into it more so I don't know.

1133
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:11,199
I mean that was just a thought that I had.

1134
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:15,119
You know, maybe there is more at play.

1135
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:19,520
Speaker 2: So whenever it comes to the the rake, quote unquote

1136
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:26,520
the rake. So there's the internet lore of the rake,

1137
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,840
where it was just a fictional thing that was created

1138
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:41,439
on a website. However, historically people see these hairless, grayish

1139
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:47,199
colored humanoid looking things like what you're describing, and we've

1140
01:20:47,279 --> 01:20:50,079
applied the name rake and pell crawler to it to

1141
01:20:50,159 --> 01:20:52,920
try and give it a name whenever we're talking about it.

1142
01:20:53,239 --> 01:20:54,640
So that's what we're talking about. Right.

1143
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: You do find references to this, especially in Appalachia, right,

1144
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,720
you know that it just it has it's a repackaging

1145
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:05,159
as being called the rake.

1146
01:21:05,399 --> 01:21:10,079
Speaker 2: But you know, but when when you redid.

1147
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 1: Read the descriptions of the rake other than me not

1148
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,479
seeing the lower body. And I want to stress this too,

1149
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,960
I don't know that if I just couldn't see the

1150
01:21:19,039 --> 01:21:21,920
lower body, like maybe it was dragging it.

1151
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 2: Right, and I never saw legs? How tall was its

1152
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:31,239
head in comparison to your vehicle whenever you drove by it?

1153
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:36,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So we were driving a two thousand and five

1154
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:43,479
Exterra at the time, and as I drove by it's

1155
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:48,359
the top of its head was above the hood, so

1156
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:51,399
just from the top of the head, the upper body

1157
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:52,000
would have been.

1158
01:21:53,399 --> 01:21:55,359
Speaker 2: I don't know, what is that four feet Yeah, the

1159
01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:57,399
head would have probably been around the four foot mark

1160
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:02,640
terrace at pretty high too. Yeah.

1161
01:22:03,399 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'd only taken that vehicle because because it has

1162
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:10,279
a lot of storage space for the Christmas presents we

1163
01:22:10,359 --> 01:22:10,720
were buying.

1164
01:22:11,159 --> 01:22:13,279
Speaker 2: And then you saw the marks on the vehicle, and

1165
01:22:13,399 --> 01:22:17,439
I'm sure that was a stomach dropping moment for you,

1166
01:22:18,399 --> 01:22:23,960
But that's also a telltale sign that whatever it was

1167
01:22:24,239 --> 01:22:30,880
was physical in nature, right, And that's that's the other

1168
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,359
thing that I go back to a lot. You know.

1169
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:38,079
Speaker 1: Some people have asked me, you know actually it was

1170
01:22:38,119 --> 01:22:41,159
out on and said something about do you think it

1171
01:22:41,239 --> 01:22:44,560
was like a ghoul or or you know, something along

1172
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:51,159
those lines. To me, the goal is more more like

1173
01:22:51,239 --> 01:22:55,560
a ghost. To me, I don't think that it would

1174
01:22:55,800 --> 01:23:02,119
leave leave those marks, you know, unless it's a very physical,

1175
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:08,640
physical creature, you know, not not something just being of energy.

1176
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:14,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. Okay, hear me out. This is this

1177
01:23:15,119 --> 01:23:17,119
is just something that I've been working on for a while.

1178
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,479
This is gonna sound pretty crazy, but we're already talking

1179
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:27,560
about crazy stuff. So it's fine. Whenever you think about babies,

1180
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:34,359
you know, you've basically got a smaller human here, and

1181
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:37,760
it's got you know, a proportionately larger head and larger

1182
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:45,079
eyes and everything. So whenever people describe what you're talking about,

1183
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,000
and you're not the first person, like you're the first

1184
01:23:48,079 --> 01:23:51,840
person that I've talked to that specifically pointed out something

1185
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:57,039
about the eyes just kind of being black voids and

1186
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,960
only seeing it from like the torso up, not seeing

1187
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:04,720
any legs or anything. But I noticed that a lot

1188
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:10,199
of these physical characteristics are extremely similar other than size

1189
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:17,560
and head proportion, to the subject of the Dover Demon case.

1190
01:24:18,279 --> 01:24:23,119
Speaker 1: Right, And you know, technically, like what i've what I

1191
01:24:23,239 --> 01:24:27,000
read about the Dover Demon, it does kind of fall

1192
01:24:27,119 --> 01:24:31,520
into this this pale crawler or rake category again, just

1193
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:33,960
it's it's just a different name. I mean, you're talking

1194
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:40,319
about this spindly creature. It's all white. I do agree

1195
01:24:40,359 --> 01:24:42,119
with you. I think that they said the head was

1196
01:24:42,159 --> 01:24:46,520
a little a little bigger compared to the body. Yeah,

1197
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:51,359
I could be wrong, but this thing that I saw

1198
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:54,359
was very proportional. The only thing that was weird.

1199
01:24:54,159 --> 01:25:03,000
Speaker 2: About the head was where on the lower part of.

1200
01:25:03,039 --> 01:25:09,119
Speaker 1: The face, that's what you want to call it. It

1201
01:25:09,239 --> 01:25:15,479
was kind of elongated, but not so if you imagine

1202
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:21,600
a guy with goatee, you know, just just slightly longer

1203
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:25,520
at the bottom than than if it was just a skull.

1204
01:25:28,319 --> 01:25:30,359
But then but then again, there was there was nothing

1205
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:31,880
where the mouth of the nose should be.

1206
01:25:32,119 --> 01:25:38,079
Speaker 2: So what are your thoughts on it being alien related?

1207
01:25:40,119 --> 01:25:45,199
Speaker 1: Let's ask that question too. The the eyes were not

1208
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,520
the almond shape that you hear about with uh.

1209
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:50,359
Speaker 2: Grays.

1210
01:25:51,399 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 1: They they literally looked like the sockets of a skull,

1211
01:25:55,039 --> 01:26:00,359
like a human skull. I mean, honestly, in things on

1212
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:01,479
the table, it could be anything.

1213
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:09,520
Speaker 2: Web I just find in these type situations and circumstances,

1214
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:14,000
I just usually whenever I'm talking to a witness, I

1215
01:26:14,319 --> 01:26:16,720
allow them to lead with their own feelings on it

1216
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,920
because they're the ones who saw it and process the information.

1217
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:25,079
I realize it's all speculation, and we certainly have no

1218
01:26:25,279 --> 01:26:29,760
idea what it is that you saw that night, But

1219
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,840
you're still the best person to tell us. You know,

1220
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:40,319
I've been doing this stuff for a very long time now.

1221
01:26:41,199 --> 01:26:45,479
I've been around the paranormal stuff my entire life. Not

1222
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:51,279
by choice. It just worked out that way. But still

1223
01:26:51,399 --> 01:26:55,239
to this day, all I know is that I don't

1224
01:26:55,319 --> 01:26:59,199
know anything about anything. There are no experts in this field.

1225
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,000
People want to claim that title or not, there are

1226
01:27:02,079 --> 01:27:04,880
no experts in this field. I mean all the questions

1227
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:09,199
that people you know, would ask, you know, what was

1228
01:27:09,279 --> 01:27:11,960
it doing in the road, why that location? Why you

1229
01:27:12,359 --> 01:27:15,279
what about the other vehicle? You know, all those things

1230
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:18,039
like we there's no way to know the answers to any.

1231
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:22,239
Speaker 1: Of that, right And and looking back is like I

1232
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:25,640
never saw I never saw that vehicle in front of

1233
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:27,720
me hit its brakes or swerve or anything. So it's

1234
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,880
almost like it wasn't there when they went by. Yeah,

1235
01:27:31,319 --> 01:27:32,800
so I don't know if it came out into the

1236
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:37,199
road between me and the vehicle in front of me

1237
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:44,239
or I mean, and the other thing when I say

1238
01:27:44,279 --> 01:27:48,479
it appears in the road, it could have. It could

1239
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:50,800
have just been that, you know, this thing, is this this.

1240
01:27:52,359 --> 01:27:56,319
Speaker 2: Cigarette ash gray? That's that's the best I come up with.

1241
01:27:58,159 --> 01:28:02,159
Speaker 1: And maybe I had just it registered because it's gray,

1242
01:28:02,319 --> 01:28:04,439
the road's gray, and now all of a sudden it

1243
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,439
registers in my mind. So it's so maybe it in

1244
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:08,640
my mind it appeared.

1245
01:28:10,119 --> 01:28:13,840
Speaker 2: But you know, I don't know. I don't know, but

1246
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:18,039
it was not that star oled sensation, like he specifically

1247
01:28:18,119 --> 01:28:21,239
referenced deer out in the country. Like, it wasn't something

1248
01:28:21,279 --> 01:28:24,760
that you saw a movement where it's like entering the

1249
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:26,920
roadway in front of you or anything like that.

1250
01:28:27,319 --> 01:28:31,600
Speaker 1: It's just now it's there, right right, and it was

1251
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:35,840
looking to its right like it like if so, it's

1252
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:40,960
on the center line, body facing towards me. And initially

1253
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:44,720
it was like it was looking to its right, like

1254
01:28:45,119 --> 01:28:46,880
maybe there was something in the ditch or something that

1255
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:50,880
it was looking at. And then as I got closer,

1256
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:52,119
it turned and looked at me.

1257
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,159
Speaker 2: If it had eyes. I don't know. The guy that

1258
01:28:56,279 --> 01:29:03,159
hooked us up, Brandon of the Tinfoil tells pot you

1259
01:29:03,239 --> 01:29:09,800
know obviously I've yeah, he's my boy. He has an

1260
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:16,359
amazing story from Indiana in the same general area kind of.

1261
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:20,840
And there's a lot of weird stuff that goes along

1262
01:29:21,079 --> 01:29:25,119
that river for whatever reason, and a lot of that stuff,

1263
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:31,239
like what you're talking about and what Brandon experienced, is

1264
01:29:31,359 --> 01:29:35,680
stuff that seems to overlap different categories. Where you've got

1265
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:39,720
something that sounds like clearly a physical being that touched

1266
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:44,279
your car, you know its head was turned looking towards

1267
01:29:44,399 --> 01:29:49,600
something or whatever. But at the same time, there's a

1268
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,680
lot of paranormal aspects. How all you know is it

1269
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,199
was just there. You didn't really see it enter the roadway.

1270
01:29:56,279 --> 01:29:58,279
The other car didn't seem to really respond to it

1271
01:29:58,399 --> 01:30:04,000
or anything, didn't even hit its rakes. Uh. Things can't

1272
01:30:04,039 --> 01:30:08,520
survive without a mouth and a nose. See, that's not

1273
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:10,039
how things on this planet work.

1274
01:30:10,119 --> 01:30:15,159
Speaker 1: You know, when Rod contacted me about the dragging intils

1275
01:30:15,159 --> 01:30:19,840
full of dirt, and then I don't know why I

1276
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:25,479
skip this part when he's describing the creature, this creature

1277
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:32,039
that he's talking about actually as like a probiscus for mouth,

1278
01:30:32,279 --> 01:30:37,039
like a like a fly. Yeah, and and their and

1279
01:30:37,159 --> 01:30:42,319
their stories. The the creature eats unborn babies in the womb.

1280
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, what a horrible creature.

1281
01:30:48,119 --> 01:30:51,039
Speaker 1: Well, it gets it gets weirder. It gets weirder because

1282
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:54,399
I had somebody from the Philippines come on my show

1283
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:59,800
on TikTok and they were talking about a creature called

1284
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:04,520
the tick tick. And the tick tick is a half

1285
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:08,840
bodied creature that eats unborn babies in the loom. And

1286
01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:14,359
this isn't the Philippines. Wow, And the Blackfoot have a

1287
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:19,600
creature that does the exact same thing. So that makes

1288
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:25,039
you think, you know, these these cultures, they they never met, right,

1289
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:28,159
but they have it'sically the same creature. The only difference

1290
01:31:29,199 --> 01:31:32,920
is the tick tick lies. It has wings, but every

1291
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:35,600
other detail about it is the exact same, even the

1292
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:39,399
entrails coming out of it. The tick tick has its

1293
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:44,520
entriols coming hanging out from it as it flies, So

1294
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:47,079
that you know, you gotta you gotta think, how would

1295
01:31:47,159 --> 01:31:49,439
how would somebody come up with that exact same creature

1296
01:31:50,079 --> 01:31:52,000
thousands and thousands of miles apart.

1297
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:55,079
Speaker 2: I don't know, is it real? I don't know.

1298
01:31:56,119 --> 01:31:58,560
Speaker 1: It just it just seemed very odd to me that

1299
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,960
two people would have two different creatures that basically resemble

1300
01:32:02,039 --> 01:32:04,840
each other, and they both eat unborn babies in the world.

1301
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:08,720
That's just that's that's a detail that you're not going

1302
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:11,199
to just randomly pick out and put with these the

1303
01:32:11,319 --> 01:32:12,359
same creature.

1304
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:17,520
Speaker 2: Right, Absolutely terrifying. I wouldn't wish.

1305
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 1: I want to see Bigfoot, kind of want to see

1306
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:22,319
dog Man.

1307
01:32:22,319 --> 01:32:25,239
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I do not want to see another

1308
01:32:25,279 --> 01:32:31,520
one of these things. So you've heard Brandon's story, Yes,

1309
01:32:32,319 --> 01:32:36,960
what do you make of that? That one still has me.

1310
01:32:37,119 --> 01:32:39,920
That has a lot of elements to it too, from

1311
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:47,600
that other dimensional to I don't know that he has.

1312
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:50,880
There's a lot to unpack on his story too. I mean,

1313
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:55,920
I know when especially with my podcast and my audience

1314
01:32:56,000 --> 01:33:02,600
and everything, but it's still the same you know, broad area.

1315
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:06,800
Most people focus on on the dog man aspect of

1316
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:10,079
Brandon's story, but I can't quit thinking about the first part.

1317
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:15,239
Speaker 1: Knowing that the mouse, what was up with the mouse?

1318
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:20,439
You know, even if that mouse was not the creature itself, Okay,

1319
01:33:21,319 --> 01:33:24,159
but a mouse does not come up and sit at

1320
01:33:24,199 --> 01:33:27,319
your feet like protect me. That's kind of the feeling

1321
01:33:27,399 --> 01:33:31,119
I got, Yeah, was you know, maybe maybe maybe this

1322
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:35,720
this creature was licking this mouse or something, and hey,

1323
01:33:35,800 --> 01:33:38,199
there's some humans, maybe they can help me, you know

1324
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:41,359
that That's kind of the impression I took from it.

1325
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,600
Speaker 2: There's just so much weird stuff going on in that area,

1326
01:33:46,319 --> 01:33:49,760
and I have no idea why. I mean, that's probably

1327
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:53,000
where I heard of that mound guy was looking into

1328
01:33:53,079 --> 01:33:56,279
this stuff in that you know, part of the country.

1329
01:33:56,359 --> 01:33:58,840
After hearing Brandon's story, and like, you know, he's working

1330
01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:02,119
on the documentary and everything thing, and so I've looked

1331
01:34:02,119 --> 01:34:05,520
into it as well, and it's like a lot of

1332
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:11,880
Native American history and a lot of tragedy for sure

1333
01:34:12,039 --> 01:34:15,359
connected to it. And you were talking about the mounds

1334
01:34:15,399 --> 01:34:19,920
and everything. I think you're probably on the right.

1335
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:25,159
Speaker 1: Track, which kind of leads me back to Rod's creature

1336
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:29,920
because he told me that the Blackfoot tribe originally came

1337
01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:33,079
from a Great Lakes region, you know, and not only that,

1338
01:34:33,279 --> 01:34:36,000
you know, you know, there's the intermingling of the tribes.

1339
01:34:36,479 --> 01:34:38,720
Now you get little pieces from here and there. The

1340
01:34:39,119 --> 01:34:43,800
Native American lores fits all this stuff too, So I don't.

1341
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:48,239
Speaker 2: Know, Well, John, where can people find your podcast?

1342
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:54,399
Speaker 1: My main outlet is YouTube. That's where I focused most

1343
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:56,920
of my energy. You can find me a Myths and

1344
01:34:57,079 --> 01:35:02,560
Mullets are Myths Monsters and Mullets on YouTube most podcast players.

1345
01:35:04,359 --> 01:35:06,640
If you have a paranormal encounter you'd like to share

1346
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:09,079
and like to be on the show, you can email

1347
01:35:09,159 --> 01:35:12,479
me at Myths and Mullets at gmail dot com, buy

1348
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:16,840
me on Facebook, message message me there, or just leave

1349
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:18,439
a comment on one of my videos and I'll find

1350
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:19,239
a way to get a hold of you.

1351
01:35:20,479 --> 01:35:24,079
Speaker 2: Sounds good, man. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Man, I

1352
01:35:24,199 --> 01:35:29,119
am so glad Brandon hooked us up. I know it's

1353
01:35:31,199 --> 01:35:34,399
pretty traumatic experience that you went through, and you know

1354
01:35:35,560 --> 01:35:37,760
hearing it in your voice as you retell the story,

1355
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:40,560
but I do appreciate it. I know my listeners appreciate it,

1356
01:35:41,239 --> 01:35:44,039
and I look forward to many future conversations with you.

1357
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:48,960
Absolutely anytime, and if you've had an encounter with something

1358
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:51,680
that shouldn't be there, email me at Bigfoot Crossroads at

1359
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,039
gmail dot com. Check out the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com.

1360
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:58,439
You can find links to social media, past episodes, marchandise,

1361
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,199
everything you need all in one place. And until next time,

1362
01:36:02,239 --> 01:36:05,119
remember there's something in the woods.