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Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production everyone. I am

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here with Tim and Lance from crawl Space Media and

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they have some new updates in the Brianna Maitland case.

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So I thought it would be great to get together

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and chat and hear what's going on in the case.

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How's it going, guys?

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Speaker 2: Good?

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Speaker 3: Josh? Yeah, how are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Good?

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Speaker 2: Good? Do you ever? Yeah? We are doing well. Thank

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you for having us on the show. I was just

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fuck as do you ever tell your audience how you're doing?

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Speaker 1: I don't. I never feel like they want to want

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to know how I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: How are you I'm good? Good?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm tired. So you have some news, well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have news. It's a news that comes from

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the folks that are investigating Brianna Maitland's disappearance. These are,

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you know, former police chief and licensed private investigator that

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we're talking about, Lou Berry and Greg Overacker. And I

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feel so redundant when I say this, or so you know,

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I say this ad nauseum, like if they have information

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about anything, especially Brianna Maitland's disappearance, and they come to

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us and they're like, hey, we'd like to put this

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out to the public. Will you know, we'll come on

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the show. Well, we'll give this a breaking case development

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information public. We're going to make this public. That takes

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a lot for them. You know, there's a lot of

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information that they've kept to themselves, never even telling Tim

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and I. There's information that they'll tell Tim and I

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and then they'll say, but that can't be public. And

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then there's information that they don't tell Tim and I

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and then they drop it on us during a live

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show and we're like, okay, this this is incredible. So

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it takes a lot for them to do that. So

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the new I guess you can say it's a lead.

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The new lead is really significant.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that speaks to what a great job

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you guys have done in keeping Brianna's case relevant in

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the news. And I think, you know, she and Maura

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both are kind of ubiquitous when it comes to missing

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persons cases in America, and I think in large part

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that's because of the work you guys have done. So

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you know, you should pat yourselves on the backs.

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Speaker 3: Oh well thanks, Yeah. I mean, you know, I think Greg,

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in this live conversation that we had with him and

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Lou said, you know, we've been waiting for news like this,

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like a new lead like this for you know, twenty years,

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and so this could be it, you know. So I

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think we got really excited when they sort of framed

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it that way. And the same would be it's true

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in Mora's case, Like if there were ever new witness

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accounts in Mora's case, I mean, you know, we would

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be sharing it as far and wide as we could.

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So this new witness account. So it's actually two witnesses

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that had I guess, an interaction on the night Branna

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went missing. So we're going all the way back to

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March nineteenth of two thousand and four, the time where

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Brianna left the Black Lantern in so she was working

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at the Black Lantern. Her car was found about a

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mile down the road at the old Dutchburn House, which

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was an abandoned house, and so her car was found there.

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So these two witnesses, they were a couple. They apparently

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drove past the dutch Burn House on their way towards

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the Black Lantern, did not see Brana's car. They were

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heading towards I guess the town of Montgomery, and they

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made a phone call. They were driving to where I

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believe where service was for their cell phone. They made

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a phone call and they actually changed their plans right

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there to either go to a party. It was either

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a party or a dance or something like that is

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what Lu said. So then they turned around and started

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heading back past the Dutch Burn and past the Black

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Lantern again. So at that point they actually saw Bri

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in his car. So the second passed by, they saw

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Brian in his car at the Dutch Burn, and so

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they thought that was weird and maybe there's something wrong

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about that situation, maybe someone needs help. So they actually

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turned around again and went back towards the Dutch Burning

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towards the Black Lantern and kind of pulled over on

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the side and the man was driving his girlfriend was

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in the passengers seat, and I guess they didn't see

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any person initially, but I think the guy I kind

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of got a little spooped out in that his girlfriend

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was kind of closer to the car and it seemed like, a,

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I don't know, something something weird happened. They could tell

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that just by looking at the car. And then apparently

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they did actually see a person in front of the

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headlights and he was wearing a black hooded sweatshirt, no

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real description on what he looked like beyond tall and

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stocky and wore a black hooded sweatshirt, and he kind

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of hit his face, I guess as the couple looked

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tried to look at him. So I guess right at

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that point is when the couple these witnesses were in

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their car and there was a vehicle that came from

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towards towards them from the direction of the black lantern

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and apparently almost hit them, and again kind of got

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spooped out, so they kind of took off, I believe,

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going straight, and they looked behind them and saw that

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that car had stopped right at that scene, so I

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didn't know what was going to happen in there. So

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they drove down the road a little bit and I

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believe turned around and were back at the scene no

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more than two minutes later, because Greg and Alu kind

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of mark marked how long it would take. I guess

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it was a turnaround near the covered bridge. I want

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to say took him about two minutes to turn back around.

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And so presumably that man who was standing near Brion

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in his car got into that vehicle that had driven

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towards them, and that vehicle is a late nineties early

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two thousand's gray or silver Honda Sedan, not an suv,

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potentially a civic, potentially in a cord, but somewhere in

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that Sedan neighborhood in those years. And so the car

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with the witnesses actually gave chase to some degree following

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that silver or gray Honda, and they lost in pretty quick.

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I guess the witnesses car was going around sixty five

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and so that I guess the vehicle that they were

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chasing was going much faster, so probably in the eighty

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eighty five mile an hour range, which is quite fast

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on rural roads in like a very rural area of Vermont.

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It was also noted by one of Brianna's old friends

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that you don't drive that fast on those roads unless

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you know those roads. So I can't really comment on

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that we have been up there, but that is what

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Kira Branna's old friends said. So that's pretty much the

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witness account and the private investigators Lou and Greg said

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there's no reason to question their credibility. They said they

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had a good reason to wait all this amount of time,

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because really they waited twenty one years to come public

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with this account. I'm not exactly sure why they waited

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that long, but we didn't. We don't really question lew

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and Greg when they when they say that they don't

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have a credibility issue, and there's a good reason, you

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know that, we assume they can't tell us anymore than that,

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and that's fine.

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Speaker 2: They don't.

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Speaker 3: Obviously the witnesses don't want to be identified.

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Speaker 1: So I guess, you know, there's some stuff we can

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extrapolate from this, which is seems likely there were at

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least two people involved. And then I guess the obvious

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question is just did she know anyone who drove that

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kind of car?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is an incredibly popular car, especially back then,

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very affordable, very you know, common to see in that area.

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But lou and Greg did say that they looked into

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it as much as they could. There were it's really

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kind of like a needle in the haystack type of thing.

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We're also talking about the town that is very close

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to the Canadian border, so it could have been a

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Canadian car, could have been a New Hampshire car. So

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nothing has come from like running that particular car against

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people that Brianna has known. So as far as that's concerned.

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Lew and Greg are not making a connection in that

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certain people who have been discussed in her disappearance had

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access to a car like.

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Speaker 3: That, right, so they they said that you can't really

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look it up by car like you know that that

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description really does, you know good when you take that

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and try to look at I don't know who was

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driving that car because it's too many people and we

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don't know the year, and we don't know the exact

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make and model and things like that. But you can

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go the other way if if you knew someone who

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either like you said Brandon knew, or someone that was

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suspicious in that area who drove that car, or you know,

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you knew them, and in the days after Brianna's disappearance,

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they were acting weird in regards to the local young

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woman who just went missing. You know, something like that

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is what we're looking for, I think. And if there

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are names that people have that could be you know,

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maybe not on the radar or anything like that, definitely

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a good idea to pass that to the investigators because

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they can run run the name and find out if

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they had a vehicle like that. But it doesn't work

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so much the other.

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Speaker 1: Way okay, and then obviously they didn't get a license

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plate correct. Yeah, it's remarkable because clearly whatever happened happened

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very quickly. And the fact that you know, these people

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came upon it basically as it was happening. It's funny

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because I would hope that like this would make it

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more clear what happened. But I still like, how did

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her car get there? Was she abducted from the parking

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lot and then someone followed? Was she run off the road?

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Like yeah, it's mystifying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is still mystifying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to put my head in the headspace

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of the two witnesses when they make the decision to

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turn around after saying like that looked weird. I mean,

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that's a late at night, very dark there. Like good

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for them to turn around because something looked weird and

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to give chase on a thirty five mile an hour

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it's a main road, but it's like it's a it's

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a rural area. Yeah, thirty five miles an hour. They're

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going sixty five. The car is going faster than them.

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At some point they have to think, like why is

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this car trying to get away from us? Like that

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is telling. Why if they if there was nothing going like,

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nothing going on, why is that car speeding away? You know,

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if they had nothing to do with anything, why are

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they going upwards of seventy five eighty miles an hour

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to get away from two random people? You know what

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I'm saying, like, Yeah, you're not You're not driving that

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fast if you're if you're innocent of something, you know,

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like you're trying to get away.

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Speaker 1: And the car was going west the chase, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I believe, Yeah, away from the Black Lantern in dutch Burn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Yeah, I'm awful with cardinal directions, like I

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need to look at like Google Earth on that. But

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also pretty remarkable that they the two witnesses are so

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close in proximity to Brianna before the fact too, they're

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heading into town, she's getting out of work, Like did

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their cars pass each other at one point? Like there

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there's matters of seconds right there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well as anyone talked to the folks who were

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at the Black Lantern in to see if anyone, I mean,

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it's been forever, but if anyone saw that car, saw

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a stocky, tall man acting suspicious, No, I.

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Speaker 3: Think I don't think at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had said something like we wish that there

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was some sort of security footage from the Black Lantern.

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And I believe I could be wrong, but I think

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lew had said, you know, so many so much stuff

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is so many people have changed that. Yeah, you know,

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the I don't even know who you would even start with.

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I mean, when we went there a couple of years ago,

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we actually ran into a woman who knew Brianna and

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she worked there. She was a manager. Oh wow, and yeah, yeah,

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and that was you know whatever that was. When did

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we go there like three years ago?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was two years ago, and yeah, yeah,

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she had known Brianna, and I believe I want to

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say she worked with her the night she went missing,

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or I don't think Brianna worked there very long as well.

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I want to say she only worked there a couple

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of weeks or something like that. But this woman did

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comment on the black eye that Brianna had from before

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she went missing, and she said she really kind of

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felt bad for her. She said she kind of felt

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like she was a little lost at that point. Now

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you asked, was she abducted from the Black Lantern. I

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don't think we're going to get any employee accounts of

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anything weird happening in the parking lot from back then

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now unfortunately. But I do want to add that Greg

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and Lu said that it's now in play that some

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one did get into Brianna's car at the Black Lantern,

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in the back seat of her car and potentially lay

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down and wait for her to drive out of that

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parking lot and then kind of attack her. Wow, it's

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it's a risky way to you know, work an abduction,

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I suppose, But yeah, there just isn't that much time

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like from her driving from the restaurant the Black Lantern

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and getting to the Dutch Burn, Like I don't know

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how many minutes that is, that's got to be like minutes,

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yeah at most.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it doesn't give you much time to do anything,

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you know, and and sort of interrupt Brian is driving

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and ended up you know where the car ended up,

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make it making it end up there, So the person

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in the back seat, Yeah, that's terrifying to think of,

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But I think it's it's a possibility now where it

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was kind of like discussed before but not really taken seriously,

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Now it's being taken seriously.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting because you know, I've been there, and

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that parking lot is quite exposed and quite small, so

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it's a high risk thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And when you drive past the area where the

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dutch Burn house was, it's no longer there, but you

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pull over onto the side of the road and you

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start to work the scenarios around in your head, like

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was she forced off the road? Obviously she was trying

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to back up and do like a three point turn

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to get out, and that's how she got caught up

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in the house foundation. And then this new I win

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its account just throws that all out the window. I mean,

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how now did that car get hung up in the house,

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you know by the back tires, the trunk of the car,

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the rear end of the car is into the home.

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So how is that happening now? You know, is she

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driving now or is it put in there to make,

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you know, make it look like something else happened. It's

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it just puts that whole scenario into question that we've

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worried over for two decades.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I always wondered, you know, if she was in

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the trunk and someone backed up to the house so

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they could under the cover of night in the house,

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like pull her out of the trunk and walk through

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the house to wherever a car was part of behind

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the barn. But this, I mean blows that away because

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there was clearly a second person there with a car

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at another location.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and how does this all come together? Right? Like,

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how does that Honda Sedan know when and where to

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meet somebody else when this is happening. What's the conversation

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that happens between the two people. We're going to go

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scare Brianna, We're gonna go threaten Brianna, We're going to

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what are we doing? Like what is our endgame here?

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And are they communicating through cell phone? Probably not? I

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mean the cell phone service there is terrible. So there's

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only like a couple of opportunity is where you're in

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a good area, especially in two thousand and four to

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make a cell phone call? So they paging one another

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or is it just you know, meet me here at

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eleven thirty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think that's it because it's just

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such a small window of time that you know, they

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probably don't need to be in constant communication, yeah, because

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it's like a five minute thing. And yeah, I think

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you asked, like, what was their goal? I think their

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goal is to abduct her, it seems because there wasn't

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much time to do to do anything else.

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Speaker 2: You know, they knew she worked at the Black Lantern.

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They knew that she was working late that night. How

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long is somebody waiting in the backseat?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, crazy.

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Speaker 3: They knew she'd be driving that direction too, you would.

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Speaker 1: Think, oh, exactly, And the witnesses saw the person get

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into the car.

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Speaker 2: No, it was sort of standing in front of the headlights, right, No.

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Speaker 1: When they've started chasing him.

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Speaker 3: No, they didn't. They they presumed that he got into

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the silver car. They're not certain, but I think it's yeah,

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I generally believed that that's what happened.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So there is a possibility. I suppose that whoever

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this man was got spooked and went to go retrieve

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his car in the time that they were away and

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came back. So not necessarily two people.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, But then he would do something with Brianna.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And he'd also have to have his car somewhere nearby,

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which wasn't noted anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Right, because the other car came at the witnesses while

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they were witnessing the scene.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's right.

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Speaker 3: Okay, right, and kind of drove towards them again, presumably

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probably to scare them a little bit or intimidate.

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Speaker 2: I think, well, if they were coming, if they were

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heading east, yeah, hopefully my cardinal directions are right. If

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they were heading east towards the Black Lantern, the car,

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the Honda, is heading west. If they're heading west, they're

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going to be going into the left hand lane in

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order to pull over to Brianna's car, So that that

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could have been a situation where they were pulling in there, yeah,

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trying to pull in there, about to pull in there

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or something. Yeah, but by cutting off the other car.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So you're saying it couldn't It might not

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have been that weird or something, I guess, but I

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think it. I think it seemed threatening because they said

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that the car almost hit them. Yeah, and it was

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going on a high rate of speed. So yeah, I'm

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I see what you're saying. But yeah, I think the car,

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the silver car, went out of their way to come

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close to hitting them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, right. Either scenario is terrifying. The you know,

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them being intimidated by this car is probably more more

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accurate in given the scope of what we're talking about.

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These are individuals who are fixing to abduct a young woman,

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so most likely they're using that vehicle to intimidate the

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other vehicle.

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Speaker 1: And then she lived west of there, right, so the

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vehicle was going back in the direction that Breonna lived.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think she was staying with her friend Gillian,

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if memory serves, Yeah, And I think she had a

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shift that next morning at a different breakfast place.

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Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah in Saint Albans I think, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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all right, Well fascinating. Do you know what Lou and

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Gregg's next steps are.

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Speaker 3: No, they really wanted they wanted to see what happened

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when they put this information out, and they they did

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speak with the Vermont State Police about putting this information out,

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and I think it was something that they that the

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police didn't necessarily want out there initially, And I think

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they got their permission really to sort of put this

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out as wide as they could and as wide as

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we could. So I don't know. I do think they're

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hoping for more information from locals up there. Maybe someone's

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got some tip that could help connect this to something else,

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or a different person or something else.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean hopefully there's someone who you

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know suspected their friend or neighbor or loved one all

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along and now this will be the thing that seals

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the deal for them.

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Speaker 2: Right yeah, hopefully. I mean again, it is like a

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needle in a haystack feeling, especially when you think about

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like the borders that that area is on, I mean,

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New York State is right there as well, So that

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at first might make someone frustrated and be like, well,

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what could they possibly find? But this lead alone just

390
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tells you that it's never too late, it's never impossible.

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People have good reason for not coming forward sometimes, and

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if you can get that by Low and Greg and

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have them say yeah, yeah that was a legit reason,

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we're not going to share it. But they had a

395
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good reason for not coming forward right away. You know,

396
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you got to take that for you know, take that

397
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into account because they are probably the most like reputable

398
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people who are working on Breonna's case at this time,

399
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so it doesn't matter, you know, somebody might have This

400
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might jog someone's memory, so might not seem like a

401
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,279
big deal to somebody, but you know, come forward with

402
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anything if you suspect something.

403
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Speaker 1: And who should people call if they have any information.

404
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Speaker 3: Yeah, folks can call the Vermont State Police. The number

405
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to call the Vermont State Police is one eight four

406
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,960
four eight four eight eight four seven seven. You can

407
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,359
also email them at VSP dot Vermont dot gov, slash

408
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,759
tip submit, or you could email Greg and Lou. They

409
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have their personal email addresses out there, Chief Barry at

410
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gmail dot com and Hopsicker at gmail dot com, So

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anywhere in that range that'll that'll get to the right people.

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Speaker 1: And if you do call Greg, expect a four hour

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phone call.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, late at night too.

415
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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely call him late at night. And if you're psychic,

416
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:26,559
definitely call him. You can also email the tips email

417
00:23:26,599 --> 00:23:29,680
address from Private Investigations for the Missing and that's the

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00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,200
nonprofit that Bruce Maitlan founded. This is not a nonprofit

419
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that is specifically geared towards finding Brianna, but Lou and

420
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Greg both monitor this email address as well, so it's

421
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just another avenue. It's p i f t M. So

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Private Investigations for the Missing he i f t M

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Tips at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Brianna's case is not APIs for the Missing Case officially,

425
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,160
they always are very clear about that. But but those

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guys also work on Brianna's case and with other cases

427
00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:03,799
at PS for the Missing.

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Speaker 1: Well, thanks for stopping by and sharing this news and

429
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hopefully it leads somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah we hope so too.

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Speaker 2: Yeahpread the word