Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production everyone. I am
here with Tim and Lance from crawl Space Media and
they have some new updates in the Brianna Maitland case.
So I thought it would be great to get together
and chat and hear what's going on in the case.
How's it going, guys?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 3: Josh? Yeah, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Good?
Speaker 2: Good? Do you ever? Yeah? We are doing well. Thank
you for having us on the show. I was just
fuck as do you ever tell your audience how you're doing?
Speaker 1: I don't. I never feel like they want to want
to know how I'm doing.
Speaker 2: How are you I'm good? Good?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm tired. So you have some news, well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have news. It's a news that comes from
the folks that are investigating Brianna Maitland's disappearance. These are,
you know, former police chief and licensed private investigator that
we're talking about, Lou Berry and Greg Overacker. And I
feel so redundant when I say this, or so you know,
I say this ad nauseum, like if they have information
about anything, especially Brianna Maitland's disappearance, and they come to
us and they're like, hey, we'd like to put this
out to the public. Will you know, we'll come on
the show. Well, we'll give this a breaking case development
information public. We're going to make this public. That takes
a lot for them. You know, there's a lot of
information that they've kept to themselves, never even telling Tim
and I. There's information that they'll tell Tim and I
and then they'll say, but that can't be public. And
then there's information that they don't tell Tim and I
and then they drop it on us during a live
show and we're like, okay, this this is incredible. So
it takes a lot for them to do that. So
the new I guess you can say it's a lead.
The new lead is really significant.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that speaks to what a great job
you guys have done in keeping Brianna's case relevant in
the news. And I think, you know, she and Maura
both are kind of ubiquitous when it comes to missing
persons cases in America, and I think in large part
that's because of the work you guys have done. So
you know, you should pat yourselves on the backs.
Speaker 3: Oh well thanks, Yeah. I mean, you know, I think Greg,
in this live conversation that we had with him and
Lou said, you know, we've been waiting for news like this,
like a new lead like this for you know, twenty years,
and so this could be it, you know. So I
think we got really excited when they sort of framed
it that way. And the same would be it's true
in Mora's case, Like if there were ever new witness
accounts in Mora's case, I mean, you know, we would
be sharing it as far and wide as we could.
So this new witness account. So it's actually two witnesses
that had I guess, an interaction on the night Branna
went missing. So we're going all the way back to
March nineteenth of two thousand and four, the time where
Brianna left the Black Lantern in so she was working
at the Black Lantern. Her car was found about a
mile down the road at the old Dutchburn House, which
was an abandoned house, and so her car was found there.
So these two witnesses, they were a couple. They apparently
drove past the dutch Burn House on their way towards
the Black Lantern, did not see Brana's car. They were
heading towards I guess the town of Montgomery, and they
made a phone call. They were driving to where I
believe where service was for their cell phone. They made
a phone call and they actually changed their plans right
there to either go to a party. It was either
a party or a dance or something like that is
what Lu said. So then they turned around and started
heading back past the Dutch Burn and past the Black
Lantern again. So at that point they actually saw Bri
in his car. So the second passed by, they saw
Brian in his car at the Dutch Burn, and so
they thought that was weird and maybe there's something wrong
about that situation, maybe someone needs help. So they actually
turned around again and went back towards the Dutch Burning
towards the Black Lantern and kind of pulled over on
the side and the man was driving his girlfriend was
in the passengers seat, and I guess they didn't see
any person initially, but I think the guy I kind
of got a little spooped out in that his girlfriend
was kind of closer to the car and it seemed like, a,
I don't know, something something weird happened. They could tell
that just by looking at the car. And then apparently
they did actually see a person in front of the
headlights and he was wearing a black hooded sweatshirt, no
real description on what he looked like beyond tall and
stocky and wore a black hooded sweatshirt, and he kind
of hit his face, I guess as the couple looked
tried to look at him. So I guess right at
that point is when the couple these witnesses were in
their car and there was a vehicle that came from
towards towards them from the direction of the black lantern
and apparently almost hit them, and again kind of got
spooped out, so they kind of took off, I believe,
going straight, and they looked behind them and saw that
that car had stopped right at that scene, so I
didn't know what was going to happen in there. So
they drove down the road a little bit and I
believe turned around and were back at the scene no
more than two minutes later, because Greg and Alu kind
of mark marked how long it would take. I guess
it was a turnaround near the covered bridge. I want
to say took him about two minutes to turn back around.
And so presumably that man who was standing near Brion
in his car got into that vehicle that had driven
towards them, and that vehicle is a late nineties early
two thousand's gray or silver Honda Sedan, not an suv,
potentially a civic, potentially in a cord, but somewhere in
that Sedan neighborhood in those years. And so the car
with the witnesses actually gave chase to some degree following
that silver or gray Honda, and they lost in pretty quick.
I guess the witnesses car was going around sixty five
and so that I guess the vehicle that they were
chasing was going much faster, so probably in the eighty
eighty five mile an hour range, which is quite fast
on rural roads in like a very rural area of Vermont.
It was also noted by one of Brianna's old friends
that you don't drive that fast on those roads unless
you know those roads. So I can't really comment on
that we have been up there, but that is what
Kira Branna's old friends said. So that's pretty much the
witness account and the private investigators Lou and Greg said
there's no reason to question their credibility. They said they
had a good reason to wait all this amount of time,
because really they waited twenty one years to come public
with this account. I'm not exactly sure why they waited
that long, but we didn't. We don't really question lew
and Greg when they when they say that they don't
have a credibility issue, and there's a good reason, you
know that, we assume they can't tell us anymore than that,
and that's fine.
Speaker 2: They don't.
Speaker 3: Obviously the witnesses don't want to be identified.
Speaker 1: So I guess, you know, there's some stuff we can
extrapolate from this, which is seems likely there were at
least two people involved. And then I guess the obvious
question is just did she know anyone who drove that
kind of car?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is an incredibly popular car, especially back then,
very affordable, very you know, common to see in that area.
But lou and Greg did say that they looked into
it as much as they could. There were it's really
kind of like a needle in the haystack type of thing.
We're also talking about the town that is very close
to the Canadian border, so it could have been a
Canadian car, could have been a New Hampshire car. So
nothing has come from like running that particular car against
people that Brianna has known. So as far as that's concerned.
Lew and Greg are not making a connection in that
certain people who have been discussed in her disappearance had
access to a car like.
Speaker 3: That, right, so they they said that you can't really
look it up by car like you know that that
description really does, you know good when you take that
and try to look at I don't know who was
driving that car because it's too many people and we
don't know the year, and we don't know the exact
make and model and things like that. But you can
go the other way if if you knew someone who
either like you said Brandon knew, or someone that was
suspicious in that area who drove that car, or you know,
you knew them, and in the days after Brianna's disappearance,
they were acting weird in regards to the local young
woman who just went missing. You know, something like that
is what we're looking for, I think. And if there
are names that people have that could be you know,
maybe not on the radar or anything like that, definitely
a good idea to pass that to the investigators because
they can run run the name and find out if
they had a vehicle like that. But it doesn't work
so much the other.
Speaker 1: Way okay, and then obviously they didn't get a license
plate correct. Yeah, it's remarkable because clearly whatever happened happened
very quickly. And the fact that you know, these people
came upon it basically as it was happening. It's funny
because I would hope that like this would make it
more clear what happened. But I still like, how did
her car get there? Was she abducted from the parking
lot and then someone followed? Was she run off the road?
Like yeah, it's mystifying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is still mystifying.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was trying to put my head in the headspace
of the two witnesses when they make the decision to
turn around after saying like that looked weird. I mean,
that's a late at night, very dark there. Like good
for them to turn around because something looked weird and
to give chase on a thirty five mile an hour
it's a main road, but it's like it's a it's
a rural area. Yeah, thirty five miles an hour. They're
going sixty five. The car is going faster than them.
At some point they have to think, like why is
this car trying to get away from us? Like that
is telling. Why if they if there was nothing going like,
nothing going on, why is that car speeding away? You know,
if they had nothing to do with anything, why are
they going upwards of seventy five eighty miles an hour
to get away from two random people? You know what
I'm saying, like, Yeah, you're not You're not driving that
fast if you're if you're innocent of something, you know,
like you're trying to get away.
Speaker 1: And the car was going west the chase, yeah.
Speaker 3: I believe, Yeah, away from the Black Lantern in dutch Burn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Yeah, I'm awful with cardinal directions, like I
need to look at like Google Earth on that. But
also pretty remarkable that they the two witnesses are so
close in proximity to Brianna before the fact too, they're
heading into town, she's getting out of work, Like did
their cars pass each other at one point? Like there
there's matters of seconds right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well as anyone talked to the folks who were
at the Black Lantern in to see if anyone, I mean,
it's been forever, but if anyone saw that car, saw
a stocky, tall man acting suspicious, No, I.
Speaker 3: Think I don't think at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had said something like we wish that there
was some sort of security footage from the Black Lantern.
And I believe I could be wrong, but I think
lew had said, you know, so many so much stuff
is so many people have changed that. Yeah, you know,
the I don't even know who you would even start with.
I mean, when we went there a couple of years ago,
we actually ran into a woman who knew Brianna and
she worked there. She was a manager. Oh wow, and yeah, yeah,
and that was you know whatever that was. When did
we go there like three years ago?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was two years ago, and yeah, yeah,
she had known Brianna, and I believe I want to
say she worked with her the night she went missing,
or I don't think Brianna worked there very long as well.
I want to say she only worked there a couple
of weeks or something like that. But this woman did
comment on the black eye that Brianna had from before
she went missing, and she said she really kind of
felt bad for her. She said she kind of felt
like she was a little lost at that point. Now
you asked, was she abducted from the Black Lantern. I
don't think we're going to get any employee accounts of
anything weird happening in the parking lot from back then
now unfortunately. But I do want to add that Greg
and Lu said that it's now in play that some
one did get into Brianna's car at the Black Lantern,
in the back seat of her car and potentially lay
down and wait for her to drive out of that
parking lot and then kind of attack her. Wow, it's
it's a risky way to you know, work an abduction,
I suppose, But yeah, there just isn't that much time
like from her driving from the restaurant the Black Lantern
and getting to the Dutch Burn, Like I don't know
how many minutes that is, that's got to be like minutes,
yeah at most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: So it doesn't give you much time to do anything,
you know, and and sort of interrupt Brian is driving
and ended up you know where the car ended up,
make it making it end up there, So the person
in the back seat, Yeah, that's terrifying to think of,
But I think it's it's a possibility now where it
was kind of like discussed before but not really taken seriously,
Now it's being taken seriously.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because you know, I've been there, and
that parking lot is quite exposed and quite small, so
it's a high risk thing to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when you drive past the area where the
dutch Burn house was, it's no longer there, but you
pull over onto the side of the road and you
start to work the scenarios around in your head, like
was she forced off the road? Obviously she was trying
to back up and do like a three point turn
to get out, and that's how she got caught up
in the house foundation. And then this new I win
its account just throws that all out the window. I mean,
how now did that car get hung up in the house,
you know by the back tires, the trunk of the car,
the rear end of the car is into the home.
So how is that happening now? You know, is she
driving now or is it put in there to make,
you know, make it look like something else happened. It's
it just puts that whole scenario into question that we've
worried over for two decades.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always wondered, you know, if she was in
the trunk and someone backed up to the house so
they could under the cover of night in the house,
like pull her out of the trunk and walk through
the house to wherever a car was part of behind
the barn. But this, I mean blows that away because
there was clearly a second person there with a car
at another location.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and how does this all come together? Right? Like,
how does that Honda Sedan know when and where to
meet somebody else when this is happening. What's the conversation
that happens between the two people. We're going to go
scare Brianna, We're gonna go threaten Brianna, We're going to
what are we doing? Like what is our endgame here?
And are they communicating through cell phone? Probably not? I
mean the cell phone service there is terrible. So there's
only like a couple of opportunity is where you're in
a good area, especially in two thousand and four to
make a cell phone call? So they paging one another
or is it just you know, meet me here at
eleven thirty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think that's it because it's just
such a small window of time that you know, they
probably don't need to be in constant communication, yeah, because
it's like a five minute thing. And yeah, I think
you asked, like, what was their goal? I think their
goal is to abduct her, it seems because there wasn't
much time to do to do anything else.
Speaker 2: You know, they knew she worked at the Black Lantern.
They knew that she was working late that night. How
long is somebody waiting in the backseat?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, crazy.
Speaker 3: They knew she'd be driving that direction too, you would.
Speaker 1: Think, oh, exactly, And the witnesses saw the person get
into the car.
Speaker 2: No, it was sort of standing in front of the headlights, right, No.
Speaker 1: When they've started chasing him.
Speaker 3: No, they didn't. They they presumed that he got into
the silver car. They're not certain, but I think it's yeah,
I generally believed that that's what happened.
Speaker 1: Okay, So there is a possibility. I suppose that whoever
this man was got spooked and went to go retrieve
his car in the time that they were away and
came back. So not necessarily two people.
Speaker 2: Maybe, But then he would do something with Brianna.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And he'd also have to have his car somewhere nearby,
which wasn't noted anywhere.
Speaker 2: Right, because the other car came at the witnesses while
they were witnessing the scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's right.
Speaker 3: Okay, right, and kind of drove towards them again, presumably
probably to scare them a little bit or intimidate.
Speaker 2: I think, well, if they were coming, if they were
heading east, yeah, hopefully my cardinal directions are right. If
they were heading east towards the Black Lantern, the car,
the Honda, is heading west. If they're heading west, they're
going to be going into the left hand lane in
order to pull over to Brianna's car, So that that
could have been a situation where they were pulling in there, yeah,
trying to pull in there, about to pull in there
or something. Yeah, but by cutting off the other car.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So you're saying it couldn't It might not
have been that weird or something, I guess, but I
think it. I think it seemed threatening because they said
that the car almost hit them. Yeah, and it was
going on a high rate of speed. So yeah, I'm
I see what you're saying. But yeah, I think the car,
the silver car, went out of their way to come
close to hitting them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, right. Either scenario is terrifying. The you know,
them being intimidated by this car is probably more more
accurate in given the scope of what we're talking about.
These are individuals who are fixing to abduct a young woman,
so most likely they're using that vehicle to intimidate the
other vehicle.
Speaker 1: And then she lived west of there, right, so the
vehicle was going back in the direction that Breonna lived.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think she was staying with her friend Gillian,
if memory serves, Yeah, And I think she had a
shift that next morning at a different breakfast place.
Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah in Saint Albans I think, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
all right, Well fascinating. Do you know what Lou and
Gregg's next steps are.
Speaker 3: No, they really wanted they wanted to see what happened
when they put this information out, and they they did
speak with the Vermont State Police about putting this information out,
and I think it was something that they that the
police didn't necessarily want out there initially, And I think
they got their permission really to sort of put this
out as wide as they could and as wide as
we could. So I don't know. I do think they're
hoping for more information from locals up there. Maybe someone's
got some tip that could help connect this to something else,
or a different person or something else.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean hopefully there's someone who you
know suspected their friend or neighbor or loved one all
along and now this will be the thing that seals
the deal for them.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, hopefully. I mean again, it is like a
needle in a haystack feeling, especially when you think about
like the borders that that area is on, I mean,
New York State is right there as well, So that
at first might make someone frustrated and be like, well,
what could they possibly find? But this lead alone just
tells you that it's never too late, it's never impossible.
People have good reason for not coming forward sometimes, and
if you can get that by Low and Greg and
have them say yeah, yeah that was a legit reason,
we're not going to share it. But they had a
good reason for not coming forward right away. You know,
you got to take that for you know, take that
into account because they are probably the most like reputable
people who are working on Breonna's case at this time,
so it doesn't matter, you know, somebody might have This
might jog someone's memory, so might not seem like a
big deal to somebody, but you know, come forward with
anything if you suspect something.
Speaker 1: And who should people call if they have any information.
Speaker 3: Yeah, folks can call the Vermont State Police. The number
to call the Vermont State Police is one eight four
four eight four eight eight four seven seven. You can
also email them at VSP dot Vermont dot gov, slash
tip submit, or you could email Greg and Lou. They
have their personal email addresses out there, Chief Barry at
gmail dot com and Hopsicker at gmail dot com, So
anywhere in that range that'll that'll get to the right people.
Speaker 1: And if you do call Greg, expect a four hour
phone call.
Speaker 3: Yeah, late at night too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely call him late at night. And if you're psychic,
definitely call him. You can also email the tips email
address from Private Investigations for the Missing and that's the
nonprofit that Bruce Maitlan founded. This is not a nonprofit
that is specifically geared towards finding Brianna, but Lou and
Greg both monitor this email address as well, so it's
just another avenue. It's p i f t M. So
Private Investigations for the Missing he i f t M
Tips at gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: Yes, Brianna's case is not APIs for the Missing Case officially,
they always are very clear about that. But but those
guys also work on Brianna's case and with other cases
at PS for the Missing.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for stopping by and sharing this news and
hopefully it leads somewhere.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah we hope so too.
Speaker 2: Yeahpread the word