Speaker 1: How's it going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all right. I think that we need to
Speaker 2: start out today with a shout out to the comrades
Speaker 2: in LA.
Speaker 1: I think that's right.
Speaker 2: That's obvious, uh, you know, and my feelings about it.
Speaker 2: I simply fucking love to see it. I simply love
Speaker 2: to see it, frankly, La.
Speaker 1: Also in New York as far as I know, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure of anywhere else just yet, but so far.
Speaker 2: Let me down, Seattle, let's go, don't.
Speaker 1: Mostly mostly in LA and some in New York as well,
Speaker 1: So don't want to forget about that. People here losing
Speaker 1: their fucking minds. Just you know. Have you noticed how
Speaker 1: in the past I don't know, let's say a year
Speaker 1: or so. I mean it goes further back than that,
Speaker 1: but definitely in the past year so, there have been
Speaker 1: a lot of things where people were like that the
Speaker 1: public is going to cry this, they're gonna hate this,
Speaker 1: they're gonna think this is awful, They're gonna be so upset,
Speaker 1: and then the public doesn't care or fully endorses it,
Speaker 1: or something along those lines, thinking of like Joe Biden
Speaker 1: dropping out because you know, everybody's like this could never happen.
Speaker 1: The public would never accept that. People were like, I mean, well,
Speaker 1: you know, if she would have broke with Biden on
Speaker 1: certain things, you know, we would have elected her. But
Speaker 1: you know, and then you get the Trump assassination attempt,
Speaker 1: where like, I mean, in the aftermath of that, people
Speaker 1: were like, this is gonna lead to the fourth right
Speaker 1: ruling America for ten thousand years or something. And it's like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: everybody thought it was funny or did it care except
Speaker 1: for the media, and I think, right, yeah, And like
Speaker 1: the Luigi you know, the assassination of the United Healthcare guy.
Speaker 1: But this is I think another example where like people
Speaker 1: are just so convinced that the America public is going
Speaker 1: to be like I hate this, this is terrible, this
Speaker 1: is awful. You know, kill all these people and let
Speaker 1: God sort them out or whatever. And it's like, I mean,
Speaker 1: people memory hold it now because you don't like talk
Speaker 1: about it. But the Black Lives Matter protest in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: like the American people supported them, like even after that
Speaker 1: were going on for like well over a month and
Speaker 1: cop cars and police stations have been burned stuff, and
Speaker 1: people supported that at like sixty five percent. It's like
Speaker 1: people have this like as a very pollyanna ish idea
Speaker 1: of like America because of like because because I mean,
Speaker 1: and I really don't get this, because nobody does. Nobody
Speaker 1: else does this for themselves. Like if I say, all
Speaker 1: English people act exactly like Cure Starmer and think exactly
Speaker 1: like Cure Starmer, people who listen to this who are
Speaker 1: English should be up in arms at me, because I say,
Speaker 1: you guys agree with everything labor does, but when an
Speaker 1: America politician does it, it's like, oh, yeah, we just
Speaker 1: assume that everyone in America agrees with Donald Trump or
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi on some of these things. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: we got a two party system that we've been trying
Speaker 1: to get out from under for like several hundred years.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that, you know, our media permeates everything in
Speaker 1: the world, but they'ree hundred and fifty million people here, folks. Sorry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and not all of them are suburbanites. And even some
Speaker 1: of the suburbanites aren't like that either, So I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: it's a vast land. Sorry. Europeans who I have seen
Speaker 1: actually very mad that this is happening because it proves
Speaker 1: that like America actually can do stuff, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: this should never happen. It's like, okay, cool, Well so
Speaker 1: they're doing it. They're out there like just seeing people
Speaker 1: get like fucking decimated by like beanbag shotgun bean bags,
Speaker 1: and they're like, uh, America would never stand. It's like okay, cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like I gotta say, you know, I've
Speaker 2: got a very specific kind of relationship to this being
Speaker 2: as you know, your girl, as an elder millennial cut
Speaker 2: her teeth in the wto protests and that's when I
Speaker 2: understood that like it was going to take this is
Speaker 2: what it was going to take, right, you know. And
Speaker 2: for me, I don't know, I grew up in a
Speaker 2: place where we are absolutely fucking ready to do this,
Speaker 2: so let's fucking go, right. And I mean, I can
Speaker 2: remember in nineteen ninety nine people being like not the
Speaker 2: Nike town, well, oh, I guess that we would all,
Speaker 2: but oh the Nike town is sad, and it's like
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up, right, like, you know, And I've
Speaker 2: seen a lot of people go back to the like
Speaker 2: think of the private property thing, and I don't give
Speaker 2: shit about your private property. And I mean fundamentally, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: What these people need to get down to, right is
Speaker 2: you can either be upset about the quite right protests
Speaker 2: that are going on, or you can admit that this
Speaker 2: garment are fascists. So which is it right? Because you
Speaker 2: don't get to do this like lib shit and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're fascist so blah blah blah blah blah, and then
Speaker 2: be like, now, everybody quiet down and wait to vote
Speaker 2: them out right, because you can't vote fascist South. That's
Speaker 2: not how it works. They're either fascist or they're fucking
Speaker 2: not right.
Speaker 1: They're mad like I like I've had like I've had
Speaker 1: like the social nazi libs mad at me for like,
Speaker 1: oh god, fifteen sixteen hours. Now I feel like, oh,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm I'm on blue sky. I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm on blue sky with the way that the
Speaker 1: Libs are screaming at me about everything they you know,
Speaker 1: I said that, you know, the optics don't really matter,
Speaker 1: and if people want to wave Mexican or Palestinian or
Speaker 1: Salvadoran flags or whatever during this protes just people aren't
Speaker 1: going to be widely turned off by that, because no
Speaker 1: they're not. It don't matter in the way that you
Speaker 1: think they do for things like this, And man, I
Speaker 1: got bad news for people, But it's not the fifties anymore.
Speaker 1: Most Americans do not care that much about the flag.
Speaker 2: No at all, they do not. And okay, so the
Speaker 2: ones that care that much about the flag are already
Speaker 2: on the other team, bro, Like, I don't know what
Speaker 2: to tell you that.
Speaker 1: They're already in power or their hangers on for the
Speaker 1: people in power, like.
Speaker 2: And like, I'm sorry after all of this if you
Speaker 2: can't fucking get down on seeing a Mexican flag right now,
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you, bro, Like you're
Speaker 2: just playing the wrong sport out the run.
Speaker 1: They're running things better than we have and have been
Speaker 1: for for a while. Like, I mean, I don't have
Speaker 1: to tell you Shinebom's looking pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like fundamentally I am out here on
Speaker 2: the side of Larasa and like that ain't gonna change,
Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying. And uh, you know, when people
Speaker 2: say things like this is also stupid because there is
Speaker 2: broad support for Palestine in America, and which is why
Speaker 2: everyone is so mad, you know, and why why like
Speaker 2: you know, we have them trying to clamp down so
Speaker 2: hard on any kind of speech around Palestine. You know,
Speaker 2: people are into it, they get it. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but people understand that this is like the
Speaker 2: first step, right and if you don't, if you do
Speaker 2: not physically oppose the first step, when are you going
Speaker 2: to do it? When you going to step in? Everyone
Speaker 2: keeps saying it, and it sounds trite, but it's true.
Speaker 2: You know, if you want to do the what what
Speaker 2: do you have done during the rise of fascism in
Speaker 2: World War two? Babe? You're doing it right now. That's
Speaker 2: just it, because this shit doesn't stop and it's not
Speaker 2: going to stop, and this is what capitalism and fascism
Speaker 2: are always fucking leading to. And you need to either
Speaker 2: just get comfortable with that and say, yeah, okay, well whatever,
Speaker 2: I'm an enabler, or you do what it is you
Speaker 2: can do. That's all I'm saying. That's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, and it's like, uh yeah it folks.
Speaker 1: Uh you you you should take hope from from what
Speaker 1: is happening and l shit, you should take it. You
Speaker 1: should take hope from that. You should take hope from
Speaker 1: the fact that mom and dad are fighting in the
Speaker 1: White House. They appear to have divorced, you know, like
Speaker 1: they they like these cracks and these things formed fissures
Speaker 1: that uh break that you know, will break these sources apart,
Speaker 1: and like it's not people see this. They they see people,
Speaker 1: they see Americans being attacked by the military and like,
Speaker 1: if you're my age or Eleanor's age, like this is
Speaker 1: something that every day on the news you were told
Speaker 1: as a kid was like Soviet style tactics and shit
Speaker 1: like that. So like everyday people who are just like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to work and you know, raise
Speaker 1: my kid or whatever. Uh, they you know, they're like whoa,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Like the militaries going into like stomp
Speaker 1: people out like in this what we like hated Khrushchev
Speaker 1: for what you know. It's like it's it's insane like
Speaker 1: that that you know that this is happening. But like yeah,
Speaker 1: it's uh, there's good you know, there's there's good news
Speaker 1: uh to be found there. And I mean I think
Speaker 1: it's really positive news for like everyone, not just for America,
Speaker 1: for everyone, like every everyone needs, you know, everyone everywhere
Speaker 1: needs to be doing this, you know, standing up for
Speaker 1: the immigrants because I mean, you know they're gonna come.
Speaker 2: Like you know, people, they they're human beings, they're your neighbors.
Speaker 2: They're worth it. They are us, and uh, do do
Speaker 2: it or don't. But and I'm not even saying you
Speaker 2: have to do it, but I'm saying that if you
Speaker 2: don't want to do it, you can shut your fucking mouth.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah,
Speaker 1: let's uh, let's do the main show before we just
Speaker 1: end up talking about hell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you probably do, I like standard English America America cocka.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, save me a president. G It's
Speaker 1: unfortunately we'll have to save ourselves. Uh but uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's good to see. We need to be, as
Speaker 1: I've said before, forming primary Marxist Marxist party in this country,
Speaker 1: even if it cannot immediately or even for a little while,
Speaker 1: like even if it could never contend like in an
Speaker 1: electoral sense because of the fucked up like constitutional system
Speaker 1: we have here, that really doesn't matter. We still got
Speaker 1: to do it regardless. Yeah, uh, take a sip of water, do.
Speaker 2: It, you're worth it. We can all have a sip
Speaker 2: of water in this trying time.
Speaker 1: That's right. Remember to stay hydrated, kids, folks. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to We're Not So Different podcast about how we've always
Speaker 1: been idiots. My name is Luke, and I am an
Speaker 1: amateur story also apparently the cause of the fall of
Speaker 1: Western civilization.
Speaker 2: If that's my boy, though, that's the boy.
Speaker 1: Welcome, and there's always I'm joined by doctor Eleanor Yanniga,
Speaker 1: who is not yet the cause for the fall of
Speaker 1: Western civilization. But there's still time. There's still time.
Speaker 2: I've you know, I've been putting in the hours too.
Speaker 2: It's it's real. It's a damn shame, folks, it's a
Speaker 2: damn shame. I think that I got. I got a
Speaker 2: little bit more. I'm the fall of the Western civilization
Speaker 2: from the fascists, and you get it a little bit
Speaker 2: more from the Libs. I think that's what tends to
Speaker 2: go down. So I really need ub my game, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I think you know, I think we both just
Speaker 1: get it. I think the thing with the fascist is
Speaker 1: like I just ignore them, uh not like ignore that
Speaker 1: they exist, because they obviously exist and we need to
Speaker 1: know and think about that. But just like when I
Speaker 1: see them, I'm like, you're an idiot. Cool, all right? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, we need we don't need to be
Speaker 1: doing you know, we don't need to be doing that okay, cool,
Speaker 1: but like the libs just really get it, really grinds,
Speaker 1: like really fucking gets on my nerves. Is the reason
Speaker 1: I don't stay on it. I'm not trying to fight
Speaker 1: this battles, the reason I don't stay in the blue sky.
Speaker 1: Oh God, it fucking annoys me. Ah yeah, it annoys
Speaker 1: me so much, like anyway, because it's the same they're
Speaker 1: just siding. They're siding with them. It's the same principle,
Speaker 1: they're siding with them, but with lipstick on the pig.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you fucking suck anyway, folks. They so
Speaker 1: you talk about more uh more medieval misconceptions that are
Speaker 1: coming back up. They everything old is new again in
Speaker 1: some ways. Before you get there, I got a couple
Speaker 1: questions first from Ollie, can't what fun medieval insults and
Speaker 1: curse words should make a comeback.
Speaker 2: I like canker blossom. I think it's a really.
Speaker 1: Is that for somebody who's just like a real pill?
Speaker 2: You like, Yeah, it's like it's like calling someone a herpie.
Speaker 2: And I like it because it's like so specific as
Speaker 2: to make one go what and h. And also I
Speaker 2: think it's quite cutting. I think that's a really good one. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, like I'd be so real with you. Most
Speaker 2: of the medieval insults are just kind of like calling
Speaker 2: women the w sler for sex work and calling men
Speaker 2: usually like a cuckold's which kind of come back but
Speaker 2: in the wrong way. And like what what else is there?
Speaker 1: Like there's slatterns, Like the slattern is such a good word,
Speaker 1: but I can't use that here because it's because it's
Speaker 1: an insult. But like if we could do if we
Speaker 1: could bring slattering back, is like a general a gender
Speaker 1: neutral term for like a boy or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's really good.
Speaker 1: Let's just bring that back. Like just calling some guys
Speaker 1: slattering on TV and they're like, what.
Speaker 2: I got. I've got this coat that I've had since
Speaker 2: high school, you know, because I'm cool, and it's like,
Speaker 2: uh and it's got like all of my old like
Speaker 2: punk and ska patches on it. But then also like
Speaker 2: people get me one still and I like add it
Speaker 2: to them all the time. Uh and uh front of
Speaker 2: the show November, Kelly got me one. That's the come
Speaker 2: out you cuckled black And I can't wait to put
Speaker 2: that bitch on there that I need to actually just
Speaker 2: sit down and have some sewing time. But it's hard
Speaker 2: to find sewing time what with you know, the incipient fascism.
Speaker 2: It is funny, I think, I think very specifically, it's
Speaker 2: funny to call people cuck golds, not cooks. It's it's
Speaker 2: just funnier. It just is funnier, and that's how it works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm always saying we need to bring back calling
Speaker 1: people the anti christ that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a big fan of just like calling like,
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest uh you know, like and they're like,
Speaker 1: you're not even religious, Like, I don't care, it's not
Speaker 1: my brother, it's it's a good name. It used to
Speaker 1: be like you, like, you used to get real shit
Speaker 1: for calling people that, Like the Catholic Church used to
Speaker 1: get really mad at you if you called someone.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what that's. That's the kind of shit
Speaker 2: that gets you dragged, avin y'all. You know I've loved
Speaker 2: saying yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh man, yeah, Ollie, thank you very much for the question.
Speaker 1: Remember if you're going to bring back sladder and gender
Speaker 1: neutral usage only and not as a slur for sex workers. Next,
Speaker 1: we got a question from MG in your Face, who
Speaker 1: says I'd love to get more insight on how people
Speaker 1: with some money but not the ultra wealthy handled their
Speaker 1: money when they were traveling. As in, you're a skilled
Speaker 1: mason going from castle job to castle job and you're paid, well,
Speaker 1: are you just carrying your accumulated wealth with you all
Speaker 1: the time? Do you have a bank at home base
Speaker 1: where you send deposits or you know, bury it under
Speaker 1: your mattress or whatever? How did how did that work?
Speaker 1: What did they do with that? Because money money be
Speaker 1: heavy before actual money exist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have strong boxes. They have like these literal,
Speaker 2: big ass like strong boxes that they carry around. And
Speaker 2: so one of the big things if one was going
Speaker 2: to attempt to pull off a heist or whatever is
Speaker 2: literally getting away with because like it's heavy.
Speaker 1: You know, we we got to go back. All our
Speaker 1: money needs to be heavy, really heavy. Again, Like highest
Speaker 1: need to be like big operations, not like stealing some
Speaker 1: guys fucking crypto key, USB chain or what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah exactly, I mean, because like there's absolutely no
Speaker 2: there's no style to that, so we can we cannot
Speaker 2: embrace it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the big thing is that usually like in one
Speaker 2: of one's own home, one has like some big ass box.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, like, you know, homes are never empty,
Speaker 2: and homes are also if you're the sort of person
Speaker 2: who has like lots of money, then like you never
Speaker 2: have an empty house. It's very difficult to steal from it.
Speaker 2: It does happen, like we have records of it of
Speaker 2: like members of one guild stealing from their members of
Speaker 2: the guild. You know, they're forced to like hug it
Speaker 2: out and stuff like that. It's quite funny. But then
Speaker 2: like if you.
Speaker 1: Are putting us in our get a long T shirt
Speaker 1: which is just a big T shirt with two headholes
Speaker 1: into exactly.
Speaker 2: And then like you know, if you are like a
Speaker 2: money lender or something, you're going to have a kind
Speaker 2: of similar situation. They might have like actual armed people
Speaker 2: around the shop. And you know this is why like
Speaker 2: kings and stuff like that, they have literal treasuries. You know,
Speaker 2: they'll have they're like, this is this is you know
Speaker 2: Scrooge McDuck's money bin. This is this is my smog
Speaker 2: pit of Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. So yeah, because
Speaker 2: it is actually physical, it's a really it's a really
Speaker 2: different ball game. And yeah, you know there are there
Speaker 2: aren't banks. Uh so you can't do that, you know.
Speaker 2: But like guilds sometimes have money and you know, things
Speaker 2: like this, you know, and we'll pull it. But generally
Speaker 2: it's like you've just got a big ass fucking chest
Speaker 2: that is in possible to move and it's hard to
Speaker 2: get into and things of this nature. Yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like it's just it's it is simply not that complex,
Speaker 2: which is amusing to me.
Speaker 1: Do we have any idea how easy it would be
Speaker 1: defense gold, like that much gold, because like if you're
Speaker 1: somebody like who clearly wouldn't really have a gold bar
Speaker 1: for instance, Like, is that like you probably have to
Speaker 1: travel a ways from home to successfully do that or
Speaker 1: get it with like a merchant you could trust implicitly
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that like a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: if you've got that kind of cash, what you're going
Speaker 2: to have to be looking at is like the nobility
Speaker 2: places like that or like really big you know, traders. Again,
Speaker 2: merchants would probably be able to do it, people like that.
Speaker 1: Ye yeah, yeah yeah, MG in your face, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for that's a really great question. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: thought about it, but yeah, it was so funny that
Speaker 1: in years like we just couldn't carry like that much
Speaker 1: money on us because it's just like gold bars are
Speaker 1: fucking heavy, Like they're not. It's it's yeah, we got
Speaker 1: to like there's one at like a I don't remember
Speaker 1: what it was. It went to some bank thing or
Speaker 1: something and like a field trip and they were like,
Speaker 1: here's a gold bar and we were like, wait, is
Speaker 1: this really go And they're like, yeah, like what are
Speaker 1: you going to do? Try and take it from us
Speaker 1: right here? And we're like, okay, well, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: good point, I guess. Anyway, they let us hold it.
Speaker 1: It was kind of heavy, a lot heavier than I
Speaker 1: thought it would be anyway. Yeah, yeah, MG and Ollie
Speaker 1: both thank you very much for the questions. If you
Speaker 1: want to ask us questions like these, please do subscribe
Speaker 1: to our Patreon, Patreon dot com slash w n sd pod.
Speaker 1: Uh you can get access to our discord. You get
Speaker 1: ad free excuse me, get add free versions of all
Speaker 1: our regular episodes and two bonus episodes a month, including
Speaker 1: our second episode on and or season two coming on
Speaker 1: for Friday. But yeah, check it out five bucks a month.
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash w Nasty Pod. It's fun. You'll
Speaker 1: feel better about yourself or maybe you won't. I don't know, but.
Speaker 2: Where to look, you know, I'll feel better about you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll feel how about that?
Speaker 2: Ah?
Speaker 1: Help, oh my gods. Onto the main show. Though it
Speaker 1: is long forgotten now, when we first started this show
Speaker 1: over four years ago, the whole conceit is going to
Speaker 1: be that we just tackled misconceptions about the Middle Ages
Speaker 1: every episode. We just set them up and knocked them down. However,
Speaker 1: we soon realized, literally within a single episode, that the
Speaker 1: show will be much better if it was just about
Speaker 1: discrete events in medieval history and we could address any
Speaker 1: lingering misconceptions along the way. If I'm being honest, I'd
Speaker 1: say that this change has worked out tremendously for us
Speaker 1: and the show, so we won't be going back anytime soon. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: time and circumstance are forcing us back into the game.
Speaker 1: We tried to get out, start a fresh life in
Speaker 1: a nice little cabin out well, and just when we
Speaker 1: thought we were safe and could begin to feel at home,
Speaker 1: the agency showed up at the door for one last job,
Speaker 1: and folks, we really did We really would have declined
Speaker 1: if we could. We tried to beg off the assignment.
Speaker 1: Have them send it down the line to the next
Speaker 1: medieval history podcast. If others actually exist, uh the pole,
Speaker 1: but the powers that be would it take note for
Speaker 1: an answer. It has to be us, they said, someone
Speaker 1: else might make it boring. They entreated, So with reluctant
Speaker 1: but dutiful hearts, we must we once more don the
Speaker 1: well actually armored, take up the sword of go fuck yourself,
Speaker 1: and step once more into the fray our enemies, the
Speaker 1: new breed of Christian nationalists and their reactionary fellow travelers
Speaker 1: popping up across the globe as neoliberalism continues to be
Speaker 1: sublimated into fascism. And oh boy, do they have some
Speaker 1: really stupid a historical opinions and theories about the Middle
Speaker 1: Ages that we can't let pass by unremarked upon. This
Speaker 1: is not because we think we can correct them on
Speaker 1: these points or that they care about being actually accurate.
Speaker 1: They do not, and we shouldn't kit ourselves into thinking
Speaker 1: they're ever acting in good faith. Instead, this is for
Speaker 1: people who care about shaping a better world and taking
Speaker 1: away a proper materialist understanding of history. For example, you
Speaker 1: likely never convince your shitty aunt and uncle that they're
Speaker 1: wrong about returning with a v but who knows, maybe
Speaker 1: your cousin is much more amenable to the real story.
Speaker 1: But also, the Middle Ages is fun, God damn it,
Speaker 1: and we have taken a solemn val to defend its
Speaker 1: honor against any who would be smirch it. To my mind,
Speaker 1: one of the big reasons the Medieval era has been
Speaker 1: looked down upon for so long as the sheer mountain
Speaker 1: of stupid misconceptions that have been hanging around for centuries.
Speaker 1: These ideas of a perfectly homogeneous Christian society of pliants
Speaker 1: service happily working for their liege lord and going to
Speaker 1: church drains so much of the color and life from
Speaker 1: the Medieval era and lops off the most interesting parts
Speaker 1: of these narratives in service of a stupid propagand propagandistic lie.
Speaker 1: And we simply won't stand for it. So today we're
Speaker 1: going to look at some of the old misconceptions about
Speaker 1: the Ages and the very early modern period that are
Speaker 1: making comeback in twenty twenty five, why they're false, and
Speaker 1: what can be done to counter them. Some of these
Speaker 1: misconceptions we've discussed a few times, but you know this
Speaker 1: will just serve as a quick reference for the future. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, let's start with one I saw recently, which
Speaker 1: is misconception one. China was never technologically, militarily, culturally, or
Speaker 1: economically more advanced than Europe. Why is this making a comeback? Well,
Speaker 1: China is the new enemy du jour. We're fighting, we're
Speaker 1: very very badly fighting at Cold War against them and losing.
Speaker 1: Inspector we are we.
Speaker 2: Are getting our asses handed to hand.
Speaker 1: The West is taking so many l's and you're like, no,
Speaker 1: it's just America. It's like, no, you guys are still
Speaker 1: all on the dollar long a dollar you're taking us.
Speaker 1: You're on the fucking ride. Sorry, Canada, England, Western Europe,
Speaker 1: Australia sucks to suck. Sorry, we all go down together. Anyway.
Speaker 1: It's making a comeback because we have to say that,
Speaker 1: you know, China is actually bad and evil and has
Speaker 1: been for a long time. Uh, eleanor one of the
Speaker 1: one of the dumbest questions that has ever been asked
Speaker 1: in history? Why is this stupid? Why is this misconception
Speaker 1: so stupid? Dude?
Speaker 2: Like, I'm very sorry to break it to you know,
Speaker 2: white supremacists, but China is the usual global Legemont.
Speaker 1: Right like two thousand ideas, baby, and they took a
Speaker 1: break in like the in like fourteen thirty, and they
Speaker 1: took a break at the exact fucking wrong time.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's like very interestingly they kind of did
Speaker 2: then what America is doing now, where they were like ah,
Speaker 2: fold in word guys like I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: really I don't feel like it. I don't really want
Speaker 2: to look around. And you know, also too, like in
Speaker 2: their defense, you know, they didn't really need anything from anyone.
Speaker 2: They weren't really you know, like the thing's already came
Speaker 2: to them via the Silk Roads. They didn't need to like,
Speaker 2: they weren't really looking to expand anymore. You know. Really
Speaker 2: from a kind of very early modern perspective, it's like
Speaker 2: where you're gonna put the troops on the boats and
Speaker 2: then go over there, like for what they're kind of
Speaker 2: like for what, right, because they've got everything they already
Speaker 2: want already, and unfortunately, see white people, unfortunately white people,
Speaker 2: white people didn't have everything they wanted, and so they
Speaker 2: got in boats and stole about it. Right, And in
Speaker 2: order to take over China, they had to like force
Speaker 2: everyone to get addicted to opium at gunpoint, right, like
Speaker 2: it is what they did. And you know, essentially the
Speaker 2: fortunes of Europe increased just as a direct result of
Speaker 2: the massive expropriation of wealth from other places in the world.
Speaker 2: So and in particular South America, right like said, South
Speaker 2: America is actually like the number one place, and you
Speaker 2: know in India as well, in the case of Britain
Speaker 2: and things like that. But if you go to Portugal,
Speaker 2: for example, in everything that's built in the seventeenth century,
Speaker 2: which is like the one time they were like a
Speaker 2: globe striding colossus and like everything is like covered in
Speaker 2: gold and baroke and like ornate and then and then
Speaker 2: they kind of lost it all and it was like opsy.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like China, on the other hand, just had
Speaker 2: always been there, which is what led to their theoretical downfall.
Speaker 2: And even then, if what we're talking about in terms
Speaker 2: of downfall is that they didn't boss everyone around globally
Speaker 2: and like start a massive slave empire. Like listen to yourself, right,
Speaker 2: like this is the thing is like there and I'm
Speaker 2: not I do not think under any circumstances. You gotta
Speaker 2: hand it to the han. Chinese do not get me wrong,
Speaker 2: but like, you know, if your criticism is like, well
Speaker 2: they should have been going over to Mexico and enslaving
Speaker 2: everyone and like completely importing a bunch of new people,
Speaker 2: I'm like, do you hear yourself right? Like, uh, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a monstrous thing that Europe did. So anyway,
Speaker 2: my point is it turns out that there's only so
Speaker 2: much planet that you can do that too, and eventually
Speaker 2: you're gonna run out of planet to do it with.
Speaker 2: And that's how you get to where we are. And
Speaker 2: China is just going back to its normal position as
Speaker 2: the leader of the world. Like for the great majority
Speaker 2: of recording to human history, it was China, and you
Speaker 2: can you know, like, yeah, we have of the Mesopotanian moment.
Speaker 2: You know, we have certainly had like the Assyrian moment.
Speaker 2: The Egyptians were really doing it for really fuck a
Speaker 2: long time. You know. It's like if Egypt came back,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, yeah, normal. But it's sort of
Speaker 2: like it's sort of like each in China are the
Speaker 2: ones to watch and like, yeah, that's just how these
Speaker 2: things are.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I don't it's not really I don't
Speaker 1: know how to sufficiently describe the number of things that
Speaker 1: China invented over time before everyone else and the way
Speaker 1: that they the way that they affect our our world today.
Speaker 1: I mean the four great inventions, you know, paper which
Speaker 1: they came up with printing both woodblock and immovable type,
Speaker 1: gunpowder and the compass, and like from there, like everything
Speaker 1: from downstream of the of paper is money, which is
Speaker 1: you know, the first monetized economy, something that even in
Speaker 1: the time of Marco Polo was just like he flabbergasted
Speaker 1: him that that, uh, that that the Chinese had had
Speaker 1: you know, paper money for so long, and he didn't understand,
Speaker 1: He didn't really understand how they could just say it
Speaker 1: was worth something. And I mean you know that from
Speaker 1: that you get you know banks and banknotes and you know,
Speaker 1: monetized economies and everything like that.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Obviously, basically everything about modern warfare uh started in China
Speaker 1: because of gunpowder. And I mean they every invention, uh,
Speaker 1: every conventional use of gunpowder. After that, they came up
Speaker 1: with first first bombs, handgun, the first rifle, the first
Speaker 1: you know uh RPGR you know, rocket power grenade, and
Speaker 1: every they they came up with. All of that, they
Speaker 1: had cast iron in the eighth century BCE. Europe didn't
Speaker 1: get it until the thirteen hundreds. Folks. It's just that's
Speaker 1: just the wheel of history. It is just as that
Speaker 1: doesn't And I do want to say this, I love
Speaker 1: making fun of Europe. However, becoming technologically advanced does not
Speaker 1: mean you are a better uh people, more ingenious people,
Speaker 1: or anything like that. The people of China who were
Speaker 1: doing this in you know, the the twelve hundreds were
Speaker 1: not better or more or anything like that to the
Speaker 1: people in the Americas who still lived in what we
Speaker 1: would consider Stone Age societies at the time. Like, they
Speaker 1: all have contributions to human history. It's just because of
Speaker 1: how everything's unfolded. And China was connected to the other too,
Speaker 1: you know, Asia, Europe and Africa and all of that
Speaker 1: passed downstream of them because of the Silk Road. You know,
Speaker 1: here we are here, we fucking are yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, yeah, I think that. Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: a that's a really good point. And I want to
Speaker 2: be clear here. I also don't think it's useful to
Speaker 2: then say, oh, well, like Europe is was a backwater
Speaker 2: for example, and then say, you know, like China had
Speaker 2: all these good things to look, look at this tech
Speaker 2: that it had and Europe, and Europe sucks and his
Speaker 2: dog shit because it didn't have them.
Speaker 1: I think that it sucks and his dogshit for many
Speaker 1: other reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's just that, well, China was really
Speaker 2: good at those things and that doesn't that doesn't make
Speaker 2: Europe bad. And I guess my my worry about that
Speaker 2: and why I don't like that argument is to an extent,
Speaker 2: I think that it's used to justify colonialism. No, like,
Speaker 2: well we had to go out and blah blah blah
Speaker 2: because you know, things were bad, and I'm like, you
Speaker 2: didn't have to do ship, you know, like you could
Speaker 2: have you could have acted like a decent human being
Speaker 2: the entire time. And yeah, it is one of those
Speaker 2: things where like tech is certainly not any indicator of
Speaker 2: the morality of a society at all whatsoever. But fundamentally,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you one culture had hermetically sealed research laboratories
Speaker 2: in the second century BC, and the other one was
Speaker 2: feeding Christians to lie for fun. So like I've just
Speaker 2: it's yeah, I guess it wasn't Christians. It was just
Speaker 2: like whoever at that point.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know and I mean and again like
Speaker 1: it's not it's because the it's because the structure that
Speaker 1: China had, They were the first like heavily centralized or
Speaker 1: even loose or even loosely centralized uh polity really in
Speaker 1: the world like of a scale of this size, and
Speaker 1: as it keeps growing and encompassing more people, and it
Speaker 1: has these like very strict ritualized uh education paths, you know,
Speaker 1: to be like a court scribe to get into the
Speaker 1: Chinese civil service system, which has been around forever. And
Speaker 1: like this encourages invention and stuff like that. And I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: they you know, people in Europe or inventing stuff. People
Speaker 1: in Africa were inventing stuff. People America, we're inventing stuff.
Speaker 1: It may technically, it may be that a pre a
Speaker 1: prehistoric Mexican civilization from like you know, like fucking two
Speaker 1: thousand BC invented the first compass, if you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry one thousand BC if if that's if that turns
Speaker 1: out to be the case. But like it's you you
Speaker 1: you know, you get all of these things, and you
Speaker 1: have all of this invention, you have this state centralization. Uh.
Speaker 1: They privatize their land like so early, which you would
Speaker 1: think like these people would love because like, yeah, they
Speaker 1: but they privatized that shit way earlier than most other people.
Speaker 1: But yeah, oh god, yeah, yeah, it's a stupid thing
Speaker 1: and not worth getting into, you know. But no, like
Speaker 1: they just technologically and militarily they were far more advanced
Speaker 1: than Europe and Africa and everywhere else at the time
Speaker 1: by any dea phinician now and economically now, culturally and socially,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that is I don't really think
Speaker 1: comparing like you know, cultural outputs of society like that
Speaker 1: is really useful because it's hard to measure them in
Speaker 1: like you know, meaningful ways that aren't laden with bias.
Speaker 1: But like, you know, for a while, China was on top,
Speaker 1: you know, from you know, one thousand BC until thirteen. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean at the end of was it was it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the beginning of the ming. The beginning of
Speaker 1: the Ming was all right, but it kind of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the Ching is even pretty decent, I
Speaker 2: would argue, like for a while, I would still kind
Speaker 2: of like take living in Ching, China for quite some time,
Speaker 2: like it isn't really you know, for my money, I
Speaker 2: think it doesn't like staards of living kind of don't
Speaker 2: really go down until like the Opium. This is kind
Speaker 2: of my my feeling on the matter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, deeply cynical, insane stuff that the West did.
Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, misconception number two, folks, The Crusades were
Speaker 1: good and fun and we should do them again. Why
Speaker 1: is it making you come back? Gee? Because psychotic Christian
Speaker 1: nationalists are in power everywhere and people love to larp
Speaker 1: about the fucking Cruisiade.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, because my heroes are dead and my enemies
Speaker 2: are in power basically, but also, you know, fundamentally, because
Speaker 2: our enemies are stupid and they want easy narratives, right, so,
Speaker 2: I mean, luckily fair listeners from the seventeenth. This month,
Speaker 2: you can catch Luke and I with the boys at
Speaker 2: American Prestige going on and on and on and on
Speaker 2: and on about the First Crusade. And it's nice to
Speaker 2: get Derek into play with us, because we do love
Speaker 2: to have an Islam expert around. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I think that this is one of these ones that
Speaker 2: just crops up over and over again, and you know
Speaker 2: it's doing so now because like, guess what, there's another
Speaker 2: conflagration in the Middle East and it comes up over
Speaker 2: and over again, because you know, white people simply love
Speaker 2: to start shit in the Middle East. That's the thing
Speaker 2: that they.
Speaker 1: We've always loved to do it. White boys have always
Speaker 1: loved to go over there, from from Pope Urban the
Speaker 1: Second to Polytratees folks, we just love to do it.
Speaker 2: The white boys just love to do it. And they're
Speaker 2: they're back on that bullshit once again. And I think
Speaker 2: in particular that they're quite emboldened at the moment because
Speaker 2: of the genocide happening in Palestine, and they're really wanting
Speaker 2: to come down on this side of genocide. And the
Speaker 2: way that you do that is by like slapping of
Speaker 2: ven nerror of religiosity on it, which is what we've
Speaker 2: always done, right, you know, every time we want to
Speaker 2: genocide someone, we just like mumble something about Christ and
Speaker 2: then we go for it.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And so also, it's like one of these things because
Speaker 2: since there's such poor understanding of the medieval period, you know,
Speaker 2: across the world, you know, everybody just believes the only
Speaker 2: people who were alive were nights. You know, they're they're
Speaker 2: just kind of like, this is a world that is
Speaker 2: populated exclusively by night. Somehow, there's like maybe one woman.
Speaker 2: She's a fair princess or like a nun possibly, you know,
Speaker 2: and or maybe like the Big Books, some chicken from
Speaker 2: robin Hood, like.
Speaker 1: Oh god, damn, I forgot about her.
Speaker 2: Never forget forget.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, man, it's like whoever was drawing this, they
Speaker 1: were on some real early furry shit. They're like, oh damn,
Speaker 1: oh damn, Like damn they made I'm not even gay
Speaker 1: in that fox is hot? Like what the.
Speaker 2: Fuck, dude, It's like, that's that proto fray shit. It's
Speaker 2: so true. But yeah, you know, and that is what
Speaker 2: people think the Middle Ages are. And so as a result,
Speaker 2: if they want to larp as the Middle Ages, they
Speaker 2: can because they're just like, oh, yeah, this is a
Speaker 2: time of like nights and I would be a knight
Speaker 2: and I'm here now and like can I do Holy
Speaker 2: War please? And so there you go. And it rests
Speaker 2: entirely on it not knowing anything about the Crusades, right,
Speaker 2: and about how they all fail, you know, like are
Speaker 2: you sure you could say the first one succeeds? But
Speaker 2: I mean does it It's like is it a successive?
Speaker 2: You can't hold it?
Speaker 1: I mean does it succeed long term? No?
Speaker 2: I mean it's certainly not long term, right, it's like
Speaker 2: that you get in there. But you know that'd be
Speaker 2: like saying, oh yeah, well, like the Vietnam War was
Speaker 2: a success because initially America landed, right, you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's just a stupid way of looking at things.
Speaker 2: But this is such a seductive one because people just
Speaker 2: they like to imagine themselves as like a bold night
Speaker 2: and literally it comes down to that. It's incredibly childish
Speaker 2: and it is not more complex than that. I don't think.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, it's larp. It really is. There's no chance
Speaker 1: even if the Pope called it, how it had happened.
Speaker 1: Who are you fighting against? What? The Holy Land is
Speaker 1: controlled by Israel at this point as far as I know,
Speaker 1: so is that who we're going against. You're going against
Speaker 1: the entire Muslim world because that's a lot of people
Speaker 1: who aren't all in the Middle East, And you know,
Speaker 1: so what are what are we doing here? But like,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, like and and I'm gonna say the
Speaker 1: craziest thing that's ever been sincerely said on a history podcast.
Speaker 1: If you want to take a view of a movie
Speaker 1: about the Crusades from a movie you should watch the
Speaker 1: director's cut of Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven, not because
Speaker 1: it's historically perfect or anything, but because his point is
Speaker 1: that all of this is stupid. This is stupid. White
Speaker 1: people should not be here doing this, just like we
Speaker 1: shouldn't be in Iraq right now, you know, because the
Speaker 1: whole the movie was, you know, a big critique of
Speaker 1: the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions. And you know, yeah, like
Speaker 1: if if you have to take it from someone, take
Speaker 1: it from that. The first time it's ever been said,
Speaker 1: I do like the movie, but you know.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, we do.
Speaker 1: Like that's the like you know, ignorre. You know, you
Speaker 1: can ignore all the historical inaccurate inaccuracies you want. It's fun.
Speaker 1: But his point is basically that like Saladin and Baldwin
Speaker 1: and you know, all these people, they're human beings, and
Speaker 1: like like going in and rooting people from their land
Speaker 1: because you know, you have some like cracker ideology about
Speaker 1: it is stupid. And if and if an old imperial
Speaker 1: brit I don't know if he's imperial, but if an
Speaker 1: old Brit like fucking uh Ridley Scott can see that,
Speaker 1: I don't know, should be playing with anyone else. But
Speaker 1: what do I know if you want to hear more
Speaker 1: about us talk about the Crusades, and I do mean
Speaker 1: a lot more ten hours. Uh, check out next week.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a lot more about it. Uh and
Speaker 1: uh you can get a preview of what we did.
Speaker 1: But yeah, misconception number three. Peasants and serfs were docile
Speaker 1: and always loved their masters or lords and strictly obeyed
Speaker 1: everything the Church said. Why is it making a comeback?
Speaker 1: Well because uh, you know, they want to in surface again.
Speaker 1: I mean, to be quite honest, a version of that whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it looks like. And they want you
Speaker 1: to be uh, they want you to be docile. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: eleanor uh, you know, peasants and serfs, we we we
Speaker 1: are on their side. Uh. They don't always have the
Speaker 1: exact right ideas about everything, but uh they are they are.
Speaker 1: They are often smart enough to know that my masters
Speaker 1: and lords are taking advantage of me and the Church
Speaker 1: is being corrupt and stupid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't like that ship, yep, like like.
Speaker 1: They famously had some rebellions about it, like China, Europe,
Speaker 1: you know, like.
Speaker 2: You know, and I think we covered them really extensively ourselves,
Speaker 2: you know, from the peasant uprising here in England to
Speaker 2: the Jackerree, you know, up to the Peasants War, and
Speaker 2: you do tend to get more of them in the
Speaker 2: later medieval period. But that's just because conditions have become
Speaker 2: such that it makes it more possible for them to
Speaker 2: do so. And I think a thing to always keep
Speaker 2: in mind. What I tend to say is they really
Speaker 2: do not like their higher ups, and they really are
Speaker 2: against how hierarchy works. And you know that everyone feels
Speaker 2: this way because all you have to do is go
Speaker 2: look at a medieval hell scene and look who is
Speaker 2: in hell. Yeah, and it's like the other rich.
Speaker 1: People who are making my life shitty. I do not
Speaker 1: understand the wider conception of this. I do not understand
Speaker 1: class consciousness. I just woke up. All I know is
Speaker 1: that these reach rich people fucking suck.
Speaker 2: They suck, and they make my life awful. And what
Speaker 2: they're doing is in more and this is no way
Speaker 2: to hold power. And like, whether it's a prince in
Speaker 2: there or a bishop or just like priests, they are
Speaker 2: burning in hell and that is what people think of them.
Speaker 2: And you know, we see this also in kind of
Speaker 2: like ghost stories and things like that. It tends to
Speaker 2: be like, well, who shows up and is a ghost.
Speaker 2: It's always like rich people, you know. It's always like
Speaker 2: someone who basically you know, took hold of the property
Speaker 2: of their lesser thans in ways that they ought not
Speaker 2: to have and things of this nature. So there's a
Speaker 2: real understanding on the part of peasants that all this
Speaker 2: stuff is like mad, like, you know, immoral and it
Speaker 2: fucked right. And like, even if it's it was the
Speaker 2: church telling them, oh, yeah, well this is all fine,
Speaker 2: they're smart enough to be like, no, it is not. No,
Speaker 2: it fucking isn't. And also if they didn't believe that,
Speaker 2: there would be no reason for there to be so
Speaker 2: many reform preachers who are kind of coming at them
Speaker 2: from vectors outside of direct church control. You know, if
Speaker 2: there's a reason why you have on going moves to
Speaker 2: like cleanse the church, right, you know, there's a reason
Speaker 2: the Franciscans were invented, and it's because there's a demand
Speaker 2: for this stuff. You know, people really want to hear
Speaker 2: about how wealth and things like this are unfair and immoral,
Speaker 2: and uh, people were giving it to them.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, and I mean, I really do think
Speaker 1: we do a disservice to like just people into history
Speaker 1: when we talk about like medieval people as being like
Speaker 1: just listening to exactly whatever the church said, because I mean,
Speaker 1: on some stuff they clearly did and that could be good,
Speaker 1: it could be bad, it could be used to you know,
Speaker 1: whatever ends. But like it's very clear that like people
Speaker 1: all across the world were not ridiculously subservient to their
Speaker 1: religion to the point that it blotted out their personalities
Speaker 1: as we kind of imagined them to be. That was
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't true of the confusions in China,
Speaker 1: wasn't true you know, of the Hindu and India and
Speaker 1: and you know the Muslims. And we could tell because
Speaker 1: all of these groups have like dozens of heretical sects
Speaker 1: that pop up all the time. And like you know,
Speaker 1: whether it was you know, ten people doing something and
Speaker 1: the religious authority got really mad about it and decided
Speaker 1: to make an example of them, or it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, ten thousand people who are actually trying to
Speaker 1: start like a different thing. Like those are differences, those
Speaker 1: and those are going to seep into the overall understanding
Speaker 1: of religion and how people view this stuff, because like
Speaker 1: the ideas that that formed the Reformation were not things
Speaker 1: that like Martin Luther himself just came up with like
Speaker 1: the day before, or Yan Houst did, or or any
Speaker 1: like anyone before then. They are like centuries of like
Speaker 1: accumulated knowledge and understanding and being like, hey, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: let me look back at this. Oh shit, things have
Speaker 1: been really bad for a long time. Oh shit, the
Speaker 1: rich have been doing this. Oh shit, are they hiding
Speaker 1: the Bible from us? You know? And it's like, and
Speaker 1: when you are these people, when you are in Martin
Speaker 1: luther shoes, that's a legitimate question to ask. Because the
Speaker 1: Church of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries is just rotten,
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, oh yeah, a terrible institution. I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, Like the rise of nationalism and
Speaker 2: the Renaissance is a terrible thing. It's a terrible thing,
Speaker 2: and it just makes conditions so much worse and it
Speaker 2: really fucks the church up.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Just the new acquissestion of wealth that is possible as
Speaker 2: a result of the colonial adventures of the early modern
Speaker 2: period is just full on disgusting. It's you know, like,
Speaker 2: I got a lot of problems with the medieval Church
Speaker 2: as well. But you know, it's just nothing is as
Speaker 2: bad as the Church in the Early Water period. It
Speaker 2: simply is not. It can't be any worse.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, And I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: get into it here because I could talk about it
Speaker 1: for a while. But uh, if you listen to our series,
Speaker 1: and especially the last episode where we wrap everything up,
Speaker 1: the first uh, the first like inklings we have that
Speaker 1: people understand that the Crusades have gone wrong and they're
Speaker 1: now being used for like ill or nefarious ends to
Speaker 1: like take land from people in Europe and stuff like
Speaker 1: that is not from like a bunch of haughty nobles
Speaker 1: in like a group or a salon. It's like provincial
Speaker 1: bards and and you know rubes and you know lower
Speaker 1: nobles like thinking and being like why the fuck are
Speaker 1: you are you attacking southern France? Why are you attacking Scandinavia.
Speaker 1: I thought the Muslims who controlled Jerusalem were the enemy, like,
Speaker 1: and this is something they figured out on their own.
Speaker 1: They didn't like there was certainly no history book being
Speaker 1: like this, and this is when we did the illegal
Speaker 1: land grabs. But yeah, check that out because it's really cool,
Speaker 1: and it shows you that cognitive distance, even at that time,
Speaker 1: is not enough to break people from reality. But yeah,
Speaker 1: misconception four. I could feel my skin crawling as I
Speaker 1: say this. The black death was an early version of
Speaker 1: biological warfare, both by the Mongols throwing infected bodies over
Speaker 1: walls and by Jews. He will still say this, really,
Speaker 1: I saw it three days ago, and I'm not Jesus
Speaker 1: fucking Christ. Three days ago it was uh TikTok video,
Speaker 1: and then it was and then it was on Twitter,
Speaker 1: and it came from Twitter or TikTok or it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter who came.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter where it came from. Just okay. So yeah,
Speaker 2: so in the first place, uh, just to go to
Speaker 2: the the spreading of black death via infected bodies probably apocryphal.
Speaker 2: There are stories that say Yanni Beg, who was besieging
Speaker 2: the Crimean Peninsula at the point in time, catapulted bodies
Speaker 2: into the town in order to give everybody black death.
Speaker 2: Whether or not that is true, we really don't know,
Speaker 2: and we think it's possibly not. This might be one
Speaker 2: of those oh the Mongols or so uncouth things. We
Speaker 2: just don't know.
Speaker 1: For rats and fleas to spread from an army with
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand horses to like, yeah, like I think
Speaker 1: people there besieging. That's not really a big jump.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you think those fleas might like somehow get
Speaker 2: off all of those animals and on other people, right,
Speaker 2: Like it's it's it's completely possible. I think it would
Speaker 2: be interesting if they had, because it just shows how
Speaker 2: incredibly doesn't medieval people are of contingent, you know, and
Speaker 2: the fact that you can get things from bodies, so
Speaker 2: you know, it would it would show how clever medieval
Speaker 2: people are. But I mean, just medieval people writing about
Speaker 2: it shows that they're clever enough to understand that you
Speaker 2: can get diseases off of diseased bodies, right.
Speaker 1: Like they whet happened or not, whether.
Speaker 2: It happened or not, but yeah, we think likely that
Speaker 2: didn't happen. Now, but it's one of those things where
Speaker 2: it makes a really good story, so it's very difficult
Speaker 2: to get rid of it. And indeed, it is something
Speaker 2: that appears in chronicles. But if we believe every single
Speaker 2: thing that appears in chronicles, homie, you know that, then
Speaker 2: then Britain was populated by Raci giants that were that
Speaker 2: were all killed.
Speaker 1: The giants causeway their stepping stone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Brutush who escaped the ruins of Troy destroyed
Speaker 2: them all right, So like if that's what, if that's
Speaker 2: what we're doing, then that's what we're doing, right In
Speaker 2: terms of the Jewish people actually poisoning wells Jesus Christ, no, no,
Speaker 2: not pour your sinea pass into a well.
Speaker 1: Exactly because it doesn't it doesn't spread like that if
Speaker 1: you put a dead wret No, no, that's not how
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: It has.
Speaker 1: These idiots. Is the same thing as trying to explain
Speaker 1: it to a medieval person. Actually not because the medieval
Speaker 1: person would probably be a little more excited to try
Speaker 1: and learn about it. But like, no, it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's it is a bacteria that appears
Speaker 2: solely in the guts of fleas. Uh yeah, and then
Speaker 2: you can get it from person to person contact after that.
Speaker 2: But you know, for the most part, this is where
Speaker 2: it comes from. In the first instance. You can't poison
Speaker 2: a well with it, Like that's not that's just not
Speaker 2: how this works. What would happen if anyone was poisoning
Speaker 2: I mean, even if you were doing something like chopping
Speaker 2: up bodies, which is not what they're accused of doing,
Speaker 2: and putting them in wells, or putting bodies in wells.
Speaker 2: What you would just do that is taint the drinking water,
Speaker 2: right like and that and that doesn't give you fucking plague. Right,
Speaker 2: So it's also impossible. Not only did it not happen,
Speaker 2: it's impossible at least the Yannie Beg story is like
Speaker 2: theoretically possible. There is no poison that gives you your
Speaker 2: city of pastus, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Right, and they didn't. Why would they do it? They
Speaker 1: drink the same water they like. Like. Granted, they don't
Speaker 1: understand the they don't understand the spread of disease at
Speaker 1: a microscopic level, but they do understand water in ground
Speaker 1: reaches all of us, including all of our plants and everything.
Speaker 1: If I put the disease in there, all crops die
Speaker 1: and I cannot eat. It's not very easy to travel
Speaker 1: well and not.
Speaker 2: You see this. You see this same myth in the
Speaker 2: Middle Ages play out, you know, because they're they're very
Speaker 2: anti Semitic and they love a chance to kill Jewish people.
Speaker 2: But you'll also see it blamed on travelers more largely
Speaker 2: Roma people.
Speaker 1: Sorry, you mean go ahead, yep, yah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but yeah, generalized travelers just like a
Speaker 2: guy who was walking I.
Speaker 1: Wanted to I wanted to make sure which one we
Speaker 1: were cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but but yeah, and that and then also uh roma.
Speaker 2: So it is one of these things that basically, if
Speaker 2: you are too foreign or or just unfamiliar, people are
Speaker 2: afraid of you. And I think part of that probably
Speaker 2: comes from the possibility of travelers spreading disease, you know,
Speaker 2: just because they've come from a different place so that
Speaker 2: they might be able to spread it out. But also
Speaker 2: part of it is linked to this myth of you know,
Speaker 2: well's being poisoned and if we just go around believing
Speaker 2: every single medieval reason for the plague, then it started
Speaker 2: because an earthquake left out let matt bad humors out
Speaker 2: in Italy. You know, it started because of a conjunction
Speaker 2: of like Mars and Scorpio. It starts, you know, like
Speaker 2: there there are all stars.
Speaker 1: Weren't listening well enough?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It started because we are not. We
Speaker 2: don't like Charles the Fourth enough we should and God
Speaker 2: is punishing anything wrong. Yeah exactly. It's it's so you know,
Speaker 2: there are there are all kinds of reasons that are
Speaker 2: given for the spread of plague, And you know, I
Speaker 2: think that that's a particularly insidious one to come back
Speaker 2: on this particular time, when you know, we're dealing with
Speaker 2: such bad faith anti Semitic arguments to justify the genocide
Speaker 2: in Palestine. And so whenever I hear these things, I'm
Speaker 2: just disgusted because we're in such a precarious place, and
Speaker 2: so yeah, I hate that.
Speaker 1: I can. I can go as far to say that
Speaker 1: almost no one throughout history has tainted their own drinking wells.
Speaker 1: Who wasn't like, no, in an existential military style situation,
Speaker 1: like you don't do that because you want to live.
Speaker 1: We need the water to live. Even they understood that.
Speaker 1: It's not. Yeah, it's just stupid, Like all the blood
Speaker 1: libel shit, all they they did, they they killed these
Speaker 1: local kids, they did this, and they're evil Jewish ceremonies.
Speaker 1: It's the same stuff. It's the same thing as it
Speaker 1: is now. It's the same bullshit anti Semitism dressed up
Speaker 1: in concern for like lope for for a local tragedy
Speaker 1: or something like that. Same shit. Just fuck it. Misconception five,
Speaker 1: go ahead, Nope, God.
Speaker 2: No, I'm I'm just agreeing with you.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I thought I was like, I was just
Speaker 1: getting ready to spit.
Speaker 2: No, I was just like, so fucking true, Bustie, that's.
Speaker 1: All they uh. Number five, we got a couple more.
Speaker 1: Number five. Europeans didn't commit genocide in the Americas. They
Speaker 1: killed a few thousand and took over a rule, and
Speaker 1: the diseases actually did all the killing. Furthermore, even if
Speaker 1: they did, it was totally justified because the locals were
Speaker 1: savages who believed in human sacrifices. Why is it making
Speaker 1: a comeback, folks, I would argue, it never left, It
Speaker 1: never never left left. Yeah, why is it stupid? Fuck you?
Speaker 1: Irresponsible for the deaths of ninety percent of the human
Speaker 1: beings on two continents. Probably caused probably was a large
Speaker 1: factor that caused the Medieval, the Little Ice Age in
Speaker 1: the late Middle Ages and early Modern period because we
Speaker 1: created a carbon sink.
Speaker 2: It's just people just killed so many people. And yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: diseases did a lot of it. But here is a
Speaker 2: case where we absolutely did use biological They were like
Speaker 2: intentionally giving people diseases. So it's not like, oh oopsie,
Speaker 2: there was a disease when you're intentionally giving people smallpox,
Speaker 2: which they were. That's a weapon and you're using it
Speaker 2: and not to and not to mention just like the
Speaker 2: actual brutal enslavement and killing of people. You know, a
Speaker 2: big way, for example, in South America that a lot
Speaker 2: of Native people die is that they were just enslaved
Speaker 2: and worked to death. So you know, we lose you know,
Speaker 2: like we we've lost the Caribs entirely as a result
Speaker 2: of their enslavement and brutalization at the hands of colonizers,
Speaker 2: which is just disgusting. And yes, you know disease did
Speaker 2: for them as well. But you know Europeans kind of
Speaker 2: showed up and were like, why don't you work like
Speaker 2: Europeans in tropical conditions And the answer is because you'll
Speaker 2: fucking die. You'll die, Like it's that's what happens, you die,
Speaker 2: And so you know they're there's certainly that and then
Speaker 2: I mean, if we extend that on it's it's not
Speaker 2: medieval but into the modern period. If you see things
Speaker 2: in America like the intentional drive to make the buffalo extinct,
Speaker 2: like in order to kill Native Americans, you know, there
Speaker 2: are these ongoing distinctly genocidal projects. And also they are
Speaker 2: genocidal projects because everyone's going, dudes, we're gonna do a genocide.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be awesome. Can't wait to do that genocide.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be great, right, Like you can take people's
Speaker 2: worst for it. Yeah, it's very open, and.
Speaker 1: They wanted to conquer the whole thing like it's it's
Speaker 1: not it's not it's not even it's not.
Speaker 2: A secret, like this is not something where they were
Speaker 2: like oopsie, they set out to do this, so like
Speaker 2: at least be honest with this one and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just don't care because I like it. Like that's
Speaker 2: what you mean. That's what you mean. You mean that
Speaker 2: you're comfortable with it and you don't care, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: that is the actual thing that's happening here.
Speaker 1: I mean, like if you if you are looking for
Speaker 1: the all time score settling and you're saying, okay, like
Speaker 1: the Mongols were the cause of the Black Death because
Speaker 1: of X, Y and Z, Fine, Okay, it's spread, it's
Speaker 1: spread across there, but you know, after them and you
Speaker 1: know all that. Fine, if that is the case, then
Speaker 1: America or not America, I'm sorry, then Europeans and Americans
Speaker 1: thereafter are responsible for the deaths of all these people.
Speaker 1: It's like when you see those you see those victims
Speaker 1: of communism things, and like those numbers are bogus anyway,
Speaker 1: because they include like all the Nazis who died in
Speaker 1: World War II and everything like that. But like even
Speaker 1: if they weren't, it's like communists was responsible for like
Speaker 1: you know, eighty million deaths across the world or a
Speaker 1: hundred million or something like that. It's like Britain walking
Speaker 1: behind the cross. The Church of England killed one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty million people in India in thirty years, one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty million people in thirty years. Intentionally wipe
Speaker 1: them out, like they're like these ledgers are so eternally
Speaker 1: fucked that you there's no way you can ever build
Speaker 1: up on the one side to meet what to meet
Speaker 1: the atrocities that have been birthed by this. Every like
Speaker 1: all of the sins of Western civilization come out of this,
Speaker 1: like come out of these acts of colonialism. And it's
Speaker 1: just like they're still doing it now because we still
Speaker 1: live in a post colonial world that we've never like
Speaker 1: actually reckoned with any of this.
Speaker 2: They are so yeah, yeah, it's still happening. And fundamentally,
Speaker 2: this is a this is a ridiculous argument that is
Speaker 2: being made by people to justify our ongoing actions because
Speaker 2: they're still want to take and.
Speaker 1: It's like, fucking own it.
Speaker 2: You didn't fucking do it.
Speaker 1: Why do you care?
Speaker 2: Like I mean, who cares? Like I'm not asking you
Speaker 2: to personally feel guilty about it. This is one thing
Speaker 2: that I think that people don't get there, like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I should be proud of my culture ash And I'm like,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be proud of your culture because that's fucking stupid.
Speaker 2: And like you know, there's nothing like you didn't do shit.
Speaker 1: This isn't culture is not yours. It's all syncretic. It
Speaker 1: has been since the very beginning. We can't like yeah,
Speaker 1: like I can't. We can't. We can't knock culture down
Speaker 1: like they that's not how it works. It's not it.
Speaker 1: You can't silo it.
Speaker 2: And like I mean, I'm not telling you to be
Speaker 2: ashamed of your culture either. I'm telling you to just
Speaker 2: be honest about about how these things happen. And there's
Speaker 2: there's absolutely no reason to defend these guys like you
Speaker 2: do not under any circumstance. Have to hand it to
Speaker 2: Christopher Columbus. They didn't like him then, right, they thought
Speaker 2: he was a monster.
Speaker 1: And then so like just call and Isabella didn't like
Speaker 1: like they personally disliked it as a human like its.
Speaker 2: Like even they were like this guy, the Holly's gone
Speaker 2: too far like that. The people doing the Spanish Inquisition
Speaker 2: were like, oh, I don't know about that. That's a
Speaker 2: little brutal.
Speaker 1: They were like, We're gonna kick out all these Jews,
Speaker 1: but I don't know about what Chris is doing over that.
Speaker 1: That's a little fucked up.
Speaker 2: Like it's like if people are like, seems a little
Speaker 2: rapie for the sixteenth century. Boy, my brother.
Speaker 1: Just just fucking own it, like he came over here,
Speaker 1: like like Christians came over here. They they they wiped
Speaker 1: out the continents and like just own it. And then
Speaker 1: you like you know, and then you colonize them and
Speaker 1: you you christianized them and you did everything like that.
Speaker 1: Just why why are you so scared? Like you know,
Speaker 1: like you guys, you guys are talking about like a
Speaker 1: like cultural genocide across the entire world to put everyone
Speaker 1: into a homogenized, uh like Christian religious system. And that's
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Why are you scared to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we you know you you've already said you think these
Speaker 1: people are savages who engaged in human sacrifice. Yeah, while
Speaker 1: not realizing that your religion is based on Sorry sorry,
Speaker 1: sorry to be the atheist about that, but like, I
Speaker 1: don't think you get to count that when you're like
Speaker 1: this guy in uh Oslo has a building, has a
Speaker 1: has a piece of land. I really like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: burn him as a heretic. It's the same fucking thing, man.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you if you do it on
Speaker 1: top of a temple or you know, in a provincial town.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: I don't care if you're doing it for your gods
Speaker 2: or if you're doing it because like Jesus Christ, because
Speaker 2: you're you are convinced that Jewish people do a weird
Speaker 2: black mass with children's bodies, and so you kill them all.
Speaker 2: Every single time a dead kid shows up, it's the
Speaker 2: same fucking thing. Calmed out, calm the fuck down, Like
Speaker 2: that's religious killing And I don't really care how it happens.
Speaker 1: It's the same. Yeah, all right, last one, here we go.
Speaker 1: H fan favorite misconception six. Medieval peasants have more time off,
Speaker 1: more free time, more vacation time, and more holidays in
Speaker 1: their jobs and far as farmers than modern workers do
Speaker 1: on their job. Why is it making you come back?
Speaker 1: Because it's a really stupid piece of trivia that people
Speaker 1: can't let go of. Although I will say one part
Speaker 1: is true they did have more holidays because they had
Speaker 1: the whole holiday calendar. The rest of it total horseshit. Illinois.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean they do have more holidays, which
Speaker 2: means that you don't.
Speaker 1: Just cool, we should have way more holidays.
Speaker 2: We should a great mat agree. But the thing is
Speaker 2: about holidays is what a holiday means is that your
Speaker 2: boss can't make you work for him, right like you
Speaker 2: can't you can't ask for the cor v the labor
Speaker 2: tax on holidays. Cow still got to get milked, bread
Speaker 2: still has to get baked, fires, wood still needs to
Speaker 2: be brought in, water still needs to be brought from
Speaker 2: the well if it's hot out, Plants still needs to
Speaker 2: be watered, like the butter still needs to be made.
Speaker 2: These are not things that come from grocery stores at
Speaker 2: the time. That is just how this stuff works. And
Speaker 2: now it is true that probably peasants have a little
Speaker 2: more downtime than we do in the winter, but even
Speaker 2: then it's like, well then they're mending clothes or fixing
Speaker 2: tools or you know, doing things inside that need to
Speaker 2: be done, you know, like because they have to make
Speaker 2: their own fucking cloth. Right, they're like on the loom
Speaker 2: all winter. Right.
Speaker 1: We shouldn't be jealous of medieval people because they have
Speaker 1: more free time. They clearly didn't. We should be jealous
Speaker 1: about the community that they had and like the close
Speaker 1: knit lives that they lived with each other and probably
Speaker 1: closer to nature than we are, and try to bring
Speaker 1: that into the modern age so we can have the
Speaker 1: convenience that we have now and like things like antibiotics
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and not like you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: we have to return. It's like, no, just bring that
Speaker 1: ship forward. Give people time off and more holidays.
Speaker 2: Now, Like I mean, yeah, absolutely likely, and in fact,
Speaker 2: there's never been a better time to do it, right,
Speaker 2: And and you know, basically the way to think about
Speaker 2: their holidays and their time off is like after they're
Speaker 2: done with all the chores that are necessary for living,
Speaker 2: then they get to have a party, which is cool,
Speaker 2: but it's a lot more like a half day than
Speaker 2: it is anything else. And you know, it's a fundamental
Speaker 2: misunderstanding of how the corps V works. And you know,
Speaker 2: these are not salaried individuals, right, It's not like these
Speaker 2: are people who are being paid by their lord every
Speaker 2: day that and then.
Speaker 1: Xcept some of what you made or you traded what
Speaker 1: you made for other people for food.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, these are people that pay attax to their
Speaker 2: lords about things and it has absolutely nothing to do
Speaker 2: with like they're not being paid, right, Like I mean
Speaker 2: maybe if you're an apprentice or something, it means that
Speaker 2: you get the day off. But if you're an apprentice,
Speaker 2: you're not a fucking peasant, are you? So yeah, like
Speaker 2: at that point is moot.
Speaker 1: And even then if you're an apprentice, you still have
Speaker 1: to go find all of the daily necessities. Like it's
Speaker 1: it was just like you didn't have the free time
Speaker 1: because you didn't have piped in water. You didn't have like,
Speaker 1: you didn't have a grocery store, you didn't have this,
Speaker 1: you didn't have. Like yeah, although I will say about
Speaker 1: this one among alone on this list, I think this
Speaker 1: is the one that is like people are well meaning
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, they're correct, But they're like, they're like,
Speaker 1: we should have more time off, Like, yes, that's absolutely correct,
Speaker 1: we should. It's just like this is not But but
Speaker 1: I would say that this is not the way to
Speaker 1: approach it, because it's not like the reason we should
Speaker 1: have more time off is because human dignity is worth
Speaker 1: more and our labor. We should be compensated fairly for
Speaker 1: our labor and and and time and everything like that.
Speaker 1: But I too, but you know you can't. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: I wonder I often wonder if the woman who I
Speaker 1: think her name is like Juliette Shore something like that,
Speaker 1: who wrote that artist she wrote like a paper about that,
Speaker 1: if she's like Oppenheimer, like thinking about God, no, what
Speaker 1: have I done? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I bet she is. Yeah. I mean, I would say
Speaker 2: that this is kind of like the one that I'm
Speaker 2: least bad about, because at least it portrays some of
Speaker 2: the good things about the medieval world, and we do
Speaker 2: like people not necessarily thinking of it as all doom
Speaker 2: and gloom. So I'll take it. But Jesus Christ, you
Speaker 2: do not want to I swear it's annoying, but you
Speaker 2: do not want to trade places with at all.
Speaker 1: I don't want to trade places. I like clean I
Speaker 1: like air conditioning, I like I like fucking medicine. I
Speaker 1: like all of our food. I like the fact I
Speaker 1: really love the fact that our food is not hyper
Speaker 1: localized to the point where we can't get anything else.
Speaker 1: I love that fucking love it. People are like, like, no, I.
Speaker 2: Like pasta, you know, yes, bro, the way I like sushi.
Speaker 2: You know, there are things that I really enjoy that
Speaker 2: it just wouldn't be possible for me as peasants, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, folks, the new old misconceptions they're making some time.
Speaker 1: In some cases they come back, in some cases they
Speaker 1: never left. But regardless, they suck and are annoying and
Speaker 1: we like them. But yeah, you know, now now it's
Speaker 1: all out there, we can talk about it. You know,
Speaker 1: don't fall for that shit. It's stupid. Not that most
Speaker 1: of you would, but you know now, you know, if
Speaker 1: you hear somebody talking about it, you'd be like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know that guy was an idiot. Don't listen to him.
Speaker 1: But yeah, next time, we'll be back, as we said,
Speaker 1: with a little bit of a different thing about the
Speaker 1: first crusade. But yeah, eleanor what's going on with you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So things that I've been doing are starting
Speaker 2: to come out. So there's a new project by a
Speaker 2: journalist that I contributed to. It is called Women Like Sex,
Speaker 2: which I was interviewed for. You can check that out.
Speaker 2: I've got a trailer up that I've got to put
Speaker 2: up over on my so for that if you want
Speaker 2: to hear me rantic on that. Last week I recorded
Speaker 2: for Culture Power Politics with your Big Gilbert, So if
Speaker 2: you want to hear why I think the conception of
Speaker 2: techno feudalism is fucking stupid. Got covered over there on
Speaker 2: the socials, I'm also in the process of putting up
Speaker 2: if you have time. At the end of the month,
Speaker 2: I am giving a talk online about gender and basically
Speaker 2: community like a social hygiene and in Prague. There is
Speaker 2: a link there that you can register for it. It's free,
Speaker 2: I think, so you could just come along if you
Speaker 2: wanted to. That's everything that I can think of at
Speaker 2: the top of my head. But the best way to
Speaker 2: get this stuff is to follow me on the socials
Speaker 2: at going Medieval on Blue Sky and Twitter dot com.
Speaker 2: Because I refuse to say the other name, thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, at least you do. Because the only people I
Speaker 1: know who say the other name are like the people
Speaker 1: who were like I love Elon and and Trump They're great.
Speaker 1: And then people in Blue Sky who call it X
Speaker 1: and I'm like, dog, you're just calling it what he
Speaker 1: wants to call it, like it's not an own like
Speaker 1: nobody called nobody. I do.
Speaker 2: I do think it's funny when people say X the
Speaker 2: everything app. If you don't like that, then that's funny.
Speaker 2: Then that's yeah.
Speaker 1: If you yeah, if you completely do it, you know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, don't you know, don't. I was listened to
Speaker 1: a podcast and won't call it out, but I was
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast and they were like and and
Speaker 1: they like, saw something called it Twitter And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't hear anybody call it twitter in a while.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, man, I don't know anybody who calls
Speaker 1: it X except Elon.
Speaker 2: Like you, I don't like group, grow up, grow up?
Speaker 1: Oh you've you've you've you've ironied yourself into this anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Luca is amazing on the stuff. You can find me there.
Speaker 1: You can find my own show, People's History of the
Speaker 1: Old Republic. Wherever you are listening to this. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a couple of things coming out in the future,
Speaker 1: but yeah, we'll talk about those when they come out. Anyway,
Speaker 1: thank y'all for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye.