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<v Speaker 1>Stop the presses, everybody. A six thousand plus story has

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<v Speaker 1>been unearthed and revealed, and Eli has the story Eli well.

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<v Speaker 2>In a couple of different archaeology stories, we're looking at

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<v Speaker 2>some findings that some claim legitimize the story of Noah's

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<v Speaker 2>ark and Udnapishtam and Zeusudra and Artrajesis and Manu and

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<v Speaker 2>the Okalian. The first is a look at findings from

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<v Speaker 2>a ground penetrating radar analysis from the Darupinar site in Turkey,

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<v Speaker 2>where a co lead researcher Andrew Jones, and he alone

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<v Speaker 2>says that this just couldn't be naturally formed, it must

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<v Speaker 2>have been constructed. And the second is the Imago Mundi,

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<v Speaker 2>which is regarded as the oldest known map of the

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<v Speaker 2>world as it was understood by the Babylonians three thousand

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, which seems to give clues to the final

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<v Speaker 2>resting place of the fabled watercraft. Of course, this is

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<v Speaker 2>from the Gilgamesh version. These articles are from The US

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<v Speaker 2>Sun by Juliana Cruz Lima on October nineteenth, twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 2>and The Jerusalem Post by Jerusalem Post staff on October thirty,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>I like to just say shout out to my star

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<v Speaker 1>trek t ANDNG fans Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh at u s I

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<v Speaker 1>can't help it. Oh my goodness. You know, so Eli,

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<v Speaker 1>you actually brought the story up to us. So what

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<v Speaker 1>do you make of the ongoing quest to find those

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<v Speaker 1>art particularly in light of the recent discoveries of the

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<v Speaker 1>I believe it's the Durham Pinar formation. I'm pretty sure

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<v Speaker 1>I butchered that. And shout out to you for saying

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<v Speaker 1>all those words that I have never used in my

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<v Speaker 1>life and you actually saying it correctly. So kudos.

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<v Speaker 2>So I spent a little bit of time looking into

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to figure out about this research project. It

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<v Speaker 2>is at the drup in our site is what I've

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<v Speaker 2>heard it called. It is in Turkey. And so this

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<v Speaker 2>project is being primarily funded and operated logistically by the

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<v Speaker 2>Doubting Thomas Research Foundation, which I'm sure you guessed is

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<v Speaker 2>a religious organization and their goal is to find archaeological

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<v Speaker 2>evidence for Biblical history. So Andrew Jones is the co

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<v Speaker 2>lead researcher on this project, and with him, his other

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<v Speaker 2>co lead researcher is a doctor Yusel who is a

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<v Speaker 2>Turkey Turkish local. He is an actual scientist, and his

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<v Speaker 2>role primarily consists of operating the scientific equipment, obtaining permits,

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<v Speaker 2>analyzing the data, and then telling Andrew Jones what the

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<v Speaker 2>data means, for Andrew Jones to then go on and

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<v Speaker 2>extrapolate wildly from there with claims that basically nobody else supports.

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<v Speaker 2>So I did look into Andrew Jones. He does seem

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<v Speaker 2>to have no public record of any academic, educational, or

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<v Speaker 2>professional background in any field whatsoever. So that was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of the details I was able to gather so far about,

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<v Speaker 2>like the actual Darubinar, the site where he's claiming there

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<v Speaker 2>are these remains of what he claims to be Noah's Ark.

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<v Speaker 1>No academic credentials whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 2>That I could find Shaka.

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<v Speaker 1>When the walls fell. Jimmy, you talked a bit about

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<v Speaker 1>a huge timeline to strike from, but not necessarily unique

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<v Speaker 1>to the hypothesis. Can you expand on it a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So they are the proponents of this idea that

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<v Speaker 3>this may be Noah's Ark are saying, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>there's evidence of human activity there. They found marine animals

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<v Speaker 3>that could not have possibly gotten up to that top

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<v Speaker 3>of that mountain without human help Okay, humans eat marine animals,

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<v Speaker 3>humans might take these things places. Also, they're talking about

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<v Speaker 3>a time gap of between fifteen hundred and two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>years of when those marine animals could have been deposited.

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<v Speaker 3>We know that people lived in that area back then

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<v Speaker 3>and well before it. We know that the climate changed,

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<v Speaker 3>and it quite possibly could have been the case that

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<v Speaker 3>marine animals were able to get closer to the top

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<v Speaker 3>of that formation earlier in the Earth's history. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, the Sahara Desert about nine thousand years ago.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a plane, it was you know, at agricultural center,

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<v Speaker 3>there were streams and rivers, it was not a sandy

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<v Speaker 3>kind of frontier. So there's really no evidence supporting this

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<v Speaker 3>these people's claims, and plenty of evidence suggesting all of

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<v Speaker 3>all types of other scenario scenarios in which these things

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<v Speaker 3>could have happened. Plus, I think it's really important to

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<v Speaker 3>know that when we're talking about evidence, multiple sources say

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<v Speaker 3>that this is a natural rock formation, like this is

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<v Speaker 3>not this where's the wood that it was built out of?

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<v Speaker 3>Like there's no tests come back conclusively or even even

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<v Speaker 3>close to being conclusively that this was somehow a man

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<v Speaker 3>made structure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that.

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<v Speaker 1>We have like a running theme with both articles with

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of claims when not you know, basically like

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<v Speaker 1>the preponderance of evidence that actually is want to like

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<v Speaker 1>bring it up right, but I want to come to

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<v Speaker 1>you Eli, because you also had like some more information

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<v Speaker 1>specifically about the second article concerning the Zaiu Sudra, which

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<v Speaker 1>was actually way before Yoga mesh so Timba his arms

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<v Speaker 1>open wide, give us please more about ZiU Sudra.

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<v Speaker 2>And so Zias Sudra. As I understand it is essentially

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<v Speaker 2>the oldest version of the Great Flood narrative, the boat

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<v Speaker 2>builder narrative. And I did really quick want to add

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<v Speaker 2>to your point, Jimmy as far as like marine animals

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<v Speaker 2>being in these like high altage areas. There's marine limestone

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<v Speaker 2>at the top of Mount Everest, like the composition of

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<v Speaker 2>the rocket, so like, yeah, at a certain point it's

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely plausible that all of that was underwater. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so Zeosuja being like the oldest version. So the the

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<v Speaker 2>imago Mundi is the second article is what that's focusing on,

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<v Speaker 2>which is just a sort of clay tablet that has

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<v Speaker 2>a map on it and some inscriptions in and it

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<v Speaker 2>seems to give clues about the resting place of the

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<v Speaker 2>boat that was built in the in the Zeosudra version

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<v Speaker 2>of the flood narrative. And this is really just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of evidence, like this story has been floating around, if

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<v Speaker 2>you can, you know, forgive the pun floating around since

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<v Speaker 2>the Sumerians Zeosuja. This is way before Gilgambush, as you

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<v Speaker 2>pointed out, and so it's I'm one hundred percent prepared

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<v Speaker 2>to believe that this myth has been evolving and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>carrying on from way early times. And yeah, three thousand

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, they probably had a version. They probably had

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<v Speaker 2>some version that there's a few different versions even that

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<v Speaker 2>claim to know where the boat landed and where it

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<v Speaker 2>used to be, and it wasn't there at that point either. Probably,

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<v Speaker 2>So it's this it doesn't seem it's being presented. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess it's sort of like evidence of the truth of

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<v Speaker 2>the narrative, when it's really just evidence of the existence

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<v Speaker 2>of the narrative.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that is an appropriate thing to say concerning

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<v Speaker 1>these stories, because like even when you are mentioning the

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<v Speaker 1>organization it's funding these archaeological bigs and things of that nature,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a religious organization. Right, the dowbting Thomas. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it reminds me the unless I can see the hand

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<v Speaker 1>where the nail prints were and the piercing on his side,

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<v Speaker 1>I will not believe. Blessed are you Thomas that have

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<v Speaker 1>seen me, But blessed are those who have not seen

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<v Speaker 1>me and yet still believe that was my Shatner impersonation

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<v Speaker 1>of doing the Bible. How did you guys? Did that work?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>I was going with the whole Star Trek thing regardless. Jenny,

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<v Speaker 1>you talked about.

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<v Speaker 3>Your heart go.

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<v Speaker 1>You frought up, like some a couple of websites that

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<v Speaker 1>you were mentioning, I believe, like about popular mechanics and

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<v Speaker 1>also about the era at the formation of the volcanic activity.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you want to talk a little bit more about that.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure, this is not something that has not been studied, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>this is something that people who consider themselves to be

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<v Speaker 3>professionals have looked into. Multiple studies have been done about

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<v Speaker 3>this area when it comes to geologic activity and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>kind of evolution, if you will, Plenty of evidence points

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<v Speaker 3>to the fact that these are natural formations and that

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<v Speaker 3>there are areas in that part of the world that

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<v Speaker 3>we can point to that create mountain chains based on

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<v Speaker 3>volcanic activity, and we are just looking at that ironically

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<v Speaker 3>it made the shape of some kind of boat, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>And then that that leads people to jump up and

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<v Speaker 3>say aha. Because when we when we deal with people

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<v Speaker 3>who have a or have a conviction about something that

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't have much evidence to it, or any evidence at all,

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<v Speaker 3>they'll look for ways to confirm their own biases. They

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<v Speaker 3>approach potential evidence with a confirmation bias, right, and they

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<v Speaker 3>make sense of things out of things that are really

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<v Speaker 3>nonsensical or don't really require a lot of thought. But

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<v Speaker 3>if we go to the professionals, popular mechanics dot Com,

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<v Speaker 3>a couple of other geologic sites I checked into, I

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<v Speaker 3>posted some of these. You know, there are people out

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<v Speaker 3>there actively trying to get to the bottom of it,

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<v Speaker 3>not because they want to prove people wrong, because the

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<v Speaker 3>truth is important and you can't just have this myth,

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<v Speaker 3>this folklore that tells you something and not investigate it.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not how anything works, and so I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>it should work, but it shouldn't work with religion. And

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<v Speaker 3>so we have an obligation to point to the things

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<v Speaker 3>that counter these arguments, especially when these arguments are incredibly weak.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think this is kind of like on the

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<v Speaker 1>it may be it may be a bit off putting,

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<v Speaker 1>but we're not necessarily off putting, but a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of strain. When you talk about people like taking like

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<v Speaker 1>different connections into patterns that they happen to see and

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<v Speaker 1>coming up with certain conclusions. I believe that's called if

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm not mistaken, you know, apenia, is the tendency

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<v Speaker 1>to proceed meaningful connections between unrelated things. And and it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like in in the process of like how

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<v Speaker 1>we actually look at patterns. Right, So, like say, for instance,

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<v Speaker 1>all of us happen told the story about Noah's Ark,

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<v Speaker 1>especially like if you grew up Christian or if you

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<v Speaker 1>grew up in some type of Abrahamic religion influence. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So if we happen to not only hear the story

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<v Speaker 1>but believe the story, when we go out to seek

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<v Speaker 1>more evidence to corroborate the story, we're going to look

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<v Speaker 1>at all types of different patterns, all types of different

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<v Speaker 1>you know formations. As you mentioned, Jimmy and I come

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<v Speaker 1>to this party, your conclusion that that's the boat, that's

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<v Speaker 1>the boat right there. You know, even though, like, if

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<v Speaker 1>you really look at it at a scientific level concerning

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<v Speaker 1>a worldwide flood, there is possibly no way that the

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<v Speaker 1>entire world could have flooded with water and then received it, receded,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you know, all of a sudden like ended

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<v Speaker 1>up on the top of Mount Sinai. We don't have

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<v Speaker 1>enough atmospheric water between you know, the you know, gas

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<v Speaker 1>to state and even our oceans to even do that.

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<v Speaker 1>And and then a lot of times when people talk about, well,

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<v Speaker 1>there's been stories around the world about you know, worldwide floods,

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<v Speaker 1>I said, there have been stories about World five floods. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but please keep this in context that you're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>people who were only aware of the geographical location that

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<v Speaker 1>they were in at that particular time. They are not

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<v Speaker 1>people who were going all over to the Western Hemisphere,

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<v Speaker 1>to the Antarctic, to the Arctic Circle and back again

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<v Speaker 1>in order for them to observe these things, let alone

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<v Speaker 1>being able to have access to technology to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to actually visually see these things, as far as like

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<v Speaker 1>using satellite or of things of that nature, so that

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<v Speaker 1>they can actually see if there are areas that happens

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<v Speaker 1>to be flooding, or if you have like oceans that

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<v Speaker 1>happen to be absorbing more water to the point that

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<v Speaker 1>it's actually hitting light. Right, So I think that this

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<v Speaker 1>with a doubting Thomas society and also talking about Gilgamesh

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<v Speaker 1>Gilgamesh at Uruk. I'm sorry, listen, guys, I live on

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<v Speaker 1>and prosper I am going to be utilizing this whole

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<v Speaker 1>particular segment to actually be going on Darmark and Jelada

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<v Speaker 1>to Nagra. My bad. But if I get back to

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<v Speaker 1>the serious part, that's what we're dealing with here. We're

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with, you know, people who are scientis air quotes

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<v Speaker 1>with unfoundable academic credentials to say this is a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet if we I would be curious to know, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that I would like for both of you

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<v Speaker 1>all the time and with your thoughts, your final thoughts

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<v Speaker 1>about this, if these people were probed by actual skeptics

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<v Speaker 1>who happened to be in the scientific community, who are

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<v Speaker 1>actual art archaeological archaeologists, paleontologists, people who actually study these things,

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<v Speaker 1>geologists who are actually very much so aware of how

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<v Speaker 1>rocks form and how volcanic volcanic eruptions could have actually

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<v Speaker 1>been contributed to these things as well how they will

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<v Speaker 1>react and where and where their answer would lie, or

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<v Speaker 1>if they were in probe with these particular questions, if

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<v Speaker 1>they were just completely obscate anything that would be something

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<v Speaker 1>that would actually give credence to what they what they

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<v Speaker 1>have found. Uh, do you think that would be a

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<v Speaker 1>thing or no? And how do you think it would go?

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<v Speaker 1>So Eli, I would like for you to, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just ponder, you know, conjecture that, and then Jimmy, I

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<v Speaker 1>would like for you to also, you know, come back

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<v Speaker 1>as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, it is on record that doctor Yrsul, which

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<v Speaker 2>is Andrew Jones's partner, his research partner, who the actual

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<v Speaker 2>geophysicist with a specialty in geophysical engineering that operates the machinery,

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<v Speaker 2>he does not agree with Andrew Jones's interpretation of the findings,

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<v Speaker 2>and that it is that is on the record. He

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<v Speaker 2>has been verbally his ideas have been verbally outright rejected

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<v Speaker 2>by geologists, archaeologists, anthropologists, and other geophysicists, apart from his

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<v Speaker 2>own partner. So it's not a we don't have to

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<v Speaker 2>ponder like how would this go? We know that like

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<v Speaker 2>no experts that do have verifiable public records of professional,

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<v Speaker 2>academic or educational backgrounds in some field that is relevant.

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<v Speaker 2>They say, no, that's a that's a natural formation. Just

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<v Speaker 2>like Jimmy pointed out at the beginning, I think in.

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<v Speaker 3>Order in order to convince or or cause somebody who

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<v Speaker 3>takes such a staunch position that this is proof of

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<v Speaker 3>their their folklore, in order to do that and change

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<v Speaker 3>their mind or even chalde their view, you would have

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<v Speaker 3>to really isolate them and make them listen to you.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think I've seen this actually happen being in

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<v Speaker 3>the military. Eli maybe you can you you were in

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<v Speaker 3>the military, so maybe you can relate. But when you're

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<v Speaker 3>when you're deployed and you're sent somewhere where you're not

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<v Speaker 3>used to, you kind of bond with people that are

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<v Speaker 3>not at all like you, and then you start to

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<v Speaker 3>like pick up each other's habits, mimic each other's behaviors,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe talk about things and understand things from their perspective.

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<v Speaker 3>In this scenario, when you have archaeologists that are that

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<v Speaker 3>are so well trained and so expert in their field

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<v Speaker 3>saying this is wrong, the people that are that are purporting,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, these falsehoods to be correct can just turn

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<v Speaker 3>around and go back to their flock. When you're isolated.

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<v Speaker 3>You can't do that right and when when you're in

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<v Speaker 3>a position where you can't turn back to your flock,

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<v Speaker 3>you have to hear the facts. Uh and and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>sometimes that might be effective. Other times it might just

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<v Speaker 3>be a means of survival. But you know, or were

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<v Speaker 3>getting your needs met. You know how many people go

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<v Speaker 3>to prison and change, you know, they just it's something

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<v Speaker 3>that you do because the environment calls for it. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>you go in and you're more religious, You go in

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<v Speaker 3>and you were never racist before, but now you hate

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<v Speaker 3>everybody that's not like you, and you just kind of

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<v Speaker 3>have to do it. And I think in certain scenarios,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, when you force people to kind of think

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<v Speaker 3>about things differently, that that might be the only way.

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<v Speaker 3>But given the freedom to go back to their indoctrinated group,

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<v Speaker 3>they're going to stay indoctrinated. So you would literally probably

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<v Speaker 3>have to cuff them to a table and be like,

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<v Speaker 3>if you want this cooke, can you're going to listen

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<v Speaker 3>to my story and you're you're going to listen to

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<v Speaker 3>my science. I don't know, but I would say it's

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<v Speaker 3>not going to be an easy feet.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that at the end of the day.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really about like taking the things that you are

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<v Speaker 1>believing and then trying to do your best to get

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<v Speaker 1>corroborating evidence to feed into your belief. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that what's really happening here is that what was found

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<v Speaker 1>just like reinforce the myths and also the symbolic expressions

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<v Speaker 1>of what they believe, and not necessarily, you know, really

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<v Speaker 1>with real literal accounts of historical events. Even though that

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<v Speaker 1>we can possibly say that we can put biblical myths

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<v Speaker 1>and legends or even like Babylonian myths and legends, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 1>into a category of historical events because they were told

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<v Speaker 1>in the past, it's still not necessarily something that I

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<v Speaker 1>believe that we should necessarily give credence to as actual facts.

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<v Speaker 1>And shout out to least to the to the geologist

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<v Speaker 1>that was with Andrew Jones that actually told him like, look, bro, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you really want to believe this, but your theory is

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<v Speaker 1>full of shit.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really exploitative. Honestly, it feels like, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>he's a local, you know, Andrew Jones moves to Turkey

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<v Speaker 2>and finds it local to you know, speak to the locals,

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<v Speaker 2>get the permits, operate the equipment, lend scientific legitimacy to

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<v Speaker 2>it to his project, and then completely ignore his actual

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<v Speaker 2>input because his respect for his knowledge falls just short

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<v Speaker 2>of actually listening to him.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a powerful creenes to indoctrination people