Speaker 1: Stop the presses, everybody. A six thousand plus story has
Speaker 1: been unearthed and revealed, and Eli has the story Eli well.
Speaker 2: In a couple of different archaeology stories, we're looking at
Speaker 2: some findings that some claim legitimize the story of Noah's
Speaker 2: ark and Udnapishtam and Zeusudra and Artrajesis and Manu and
Speaker 2: the Okalian. The first is a look at findings from
Speaker 2: a ground penetrating radar analysis from the Darupinar site in Turkey,
Speaker 2: where a co lead researcher Andrew Jones, and he alone
Speaker 2: says that this just couldn't be naturally formed, it must
Speaker 2: have been constructed. And the second is the Imago Mundi,
Speaker 2: which is regarded as the oldest known map of the
Speaker 2: world as it was understood by the Babylonians three thousand
Speaker 2: years ago, which seems to give clues to the final
Speaker 2: resting place of the fabled watercraft. Of course, this is
Speaker 2: from the Gilgamesh version. These articles are from The US
Speaker 2: Sun by Juliana Cruz Lima on October nineteenth, twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: and The Jerusalem Post by Jerusalem Post staff on October thirty,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: I like to just say shout out to my star
Speaker 1: trek t ANDNG fans Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh at u s I
Speaker 1: can't help it. Oh my goodness. You know, so Eli,
Speaker 1: you actually brought the story up to us. So what
Speaker 1: do you make of the ongoing quest to find those
Speaker 1: art particularly in light of the recent discoveries of the
Speaker 1: I believe it's the Durham Pinar formation. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I butchered that. And shout out to you for saying
Speaker 1: all those words that I have never used in my
Speaker 1: life and you actually saying it correctly. So kudos.
Speaker 2: So I spent a little bit of time looking into
Speaker 2: I wanted to figure out about this research project. It
Speaker 2: is at the drup in our site is what I've
Speaker 2: heard it called. It is in Turkey. And so this
Speaker 2: project is being primarily funded and operated logistically by the
Speaker 2: Doubting Thomas Research Foundation, which I'm sure you guessed is
Speaker 2: a religious organization and their goal is to find archaeological
Speaker 2: evidence for Biblical history. So Andrew Jones is the co
Speaker 2: lead researcher on this project, and with him, his other
Speaker 2: co lead researcher is a doctor Yusel who is a
Speaker 2: Turkey Turkish local. He is an actual scientist, and his
Speaker 2: role primarily consists of operating the scientific equipment, obtaining permits,
Speaker 2: analyzing the data, and then telling Andrew Jones what the
Speaker 2: data means, for Andrew Jones to then go on and
Speaker 2: extrapolate wildly from there with claims that basically nobody else supports.
Speaker 2: So I did look into Andrew Jones. He does seem
Speaker 2: to have no public record of any academic, educational, or
Speaker 2: professional background in any field whatsoever. So that was sort
Speaker 2: of the details I was able to gather so far about,
Speaker 2: like the actual Darubinar, the site where he's claiming there
Speaker 2: are these remains of what he claims to be Noah's Ark.
Speaker 1: No academic credentials whatsoever.
Speaker 2: That I could find Shaka.
Speaker 1: When the walls fell. Jimmy, you talked a bit about
Speaker 1: a huge timeline to strike from, but not necessarily unique
Speaker 1: to the hypothesis. Can you expand on it a little
Speaker 1: bit more?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they are the proponents of this idea that
Speaker 3: this may be Noah's Ark are saying, well, you know,
Speaker 3: there's evidence of human activity there. They found marine animals
Speaker 3: that could not have possibly gotten up to that top
Speaker 3: of that mountain without human help Okay, humans eat marine animals,
Speaker 3: humans might take these things places. Also, they're talking about
Speaker 3: a time gap of between fifteen hundred and two thousand
Speaker 3: years of when those marine animals could have been deposited.
Speaker 3: We know that people lived in that area back then
Speaker 3: and well before it. We know that the climate changed,
Speaker 3: and it quite possibly could have been the case that
Speaker 3: marine animals were able to get closer to the top
Speaker 3: of that formation earlier in the Earth's history. You know,
Speaker 3: for example, the Sahara Desert about nine thousand years ago.
Speaker 3: It was a plane, it was you know, at agricultural center,
Speaker 3: there were streams and rivers, it was not a sandy
Speaker 3: kind of frontier. So there's really no evidence supporting this
Speaker 3: these people's claims, and plenty of evidence suggesting all of
Speaker 3: all types of other scenario scenarios in which these things
Speaker 3: could have happened. Plus, I think it's really important to
Speaker 3: know that when we're talking about evidence, multiple sources say
Speaker 3: that this is a natural rock formation, like this is
Speaker 3: not this where's the wood that it was built out of?
Speaker 3: Like there's no tests come back conclusively or even even
Speaker 3: close to being conclusively that this was somehow a man
Speaker 3: made structure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 1: We have like a running theme with both articles with
Speaker 1: a lot of claims when not you know, basically like
Speaker 1: the preponderance of evidence that actually is want to like
Speaker 1: bring it up right, but I want to come to
Speaker 1: you Eli, because you also had like some more information
Speaker 1: specifically about the second article concerning the Zaiu Sudra, which
Speaker 1: was actually way before Yoga mesh so Timba his arms
Speaker 1: open wide, give us please more about ZiU Sudra.
Speaker 2: And so Zias Sudra. As I understand it is essentially
Speaker 2: the oldest version of the Great Flood narrative, the boat
Speaker 2: builder narrative. And I did really quick want to add
Speaker 2: to your point, Jimmy as far as like marine animals
Speaker 2: being in these like high altage areas. There's marine limestone
Speaker 2: at the top of Mount Everest, like the composition of
Speaker 2: the rocket, so like, yeah, at a certain point it's
Speaker 2: absolutely plausible that all of that was underwater. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so Zeosuja being like the oldest version. So the the
Speaker 2: imago Mundi is the second article is what that's focusing on,
Speaker 2: which is just a sort of clay tablet that has
Speaker 2: a map on it and some inscriptions in and it
Speaker 2: seems to give clues about the resting place of the
Speaker 2: boat that was built in the in the Zeosudra version
Speaker 2: of the flood narrative. And this is really just kind
Speaker 2: of evidence, like this story has been floating around, if
Speaker 2: you can, you know, forgive the pun floating around since
Speaker 2: the Sumerians Zeosuja. This is way before Gilgambush, as you
Speaker 2: pointed out, and so it's I'm one hundred percent prepared
Speaker 2: to believe that this myth has been evolving and you know,
Speaker 2: carrying on from way early times. And yeah, three thousand
Speaker 2: years ago, they probably had a version. They probably had
Speaker 2: some version that there's a few different versions even that
Speaker 2: claim to know where the boat landed and where it
Speaker 2: used to be, and it wasn't there at that point either. Probably,
Speaker 2: So it's this it doesn't seem it's being presented. I
Speaker 2: guess it's sort of like evidence of the truth of
Speaker 2: the narrative, when it's really just evidence of the existence
Speaker 2: of the narrative.
Speaker 1: I think that is an appropriate thing to say concerning
Speaker 1: these stories, because like even when you are mentioning the
Speaker 1: organization it's funding these archaeological bigs and things of that nature,
Speaker 1: it's a religious organization. Right, the dowbting Thomas. You know,
Speaker 1: it reminds me the unless I can see the hand
Speaker 1: where the nail prints were and the piercing on his side,
Speaker 1: I will not believe. Blessed are you Thomas that have
Speaker 1: seen me, But blessed are those who have not seen
Speaker 1: me and yet still believe that was my Shatner impersonation
Speaker 1: of doing the Bible. How did you guys? Did that work?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I was going with the whole Star Trek thing regardless. Jenny,
Speaker 1: you talked about.
Speaker 3: Your heart go.
Speaker 1: You frought up, like some a couple of websites that
Speaker 1: you were mentioning, I believe, like about popular mechanics and
Speaker 1: also about the era at the formation of the volcanic activity.
Speaker 1: Did you want to talk a little bit more about that.
Speaker 3: Sure, this is not something that has not been studied, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is something that people who consider themselves to be
Speaker 3: professionals have looked into. Multiple studies have been done about
Speaker 3: this area when it comes to geologic activity and you know,
Speaker 3: kind of evolution, if you will, Plenty of evidence points
Speaker 3: to the fact that these are natural formations and that
Speaker 3: there are areas in that part of the world that
Speaker 3: we can point to that create mountain chains based on
Speaker 3: volcanic activity, and we are just looking at that ironically
Speaker 3: it made the shape of some kind of boat, okay,
Speaker 3: And then that that leads people to jump up and
Speaker 3: say aha. Because when we when we deal with people
Speaker 3: who have a or have a conviction about something that
Speaker 3: doesn't have much evidence to it, or any evidence at all,
Speaker 3: they'll look for ways to confirm their own biases. They
Speaker 3: approach potential evidence with a confirmation bias, right, and they
Speaker 3: make sense of things out of things that are really
Speaker 3: nonsensical or don't really require a lot of thought. But
Speaker 3: if we go to the professionals, popular mechanics dot Com,
Speaker 3: a couple of other geologic sites I checked into, I
Speaker 3: posted some of these. You know, there are people out
Speaker 3: there actively trying to get to the bottom of it,
Speaker 3: not because they want to prove people wrong, because the
Speaker 3: truth is important and you can't just have this myth,
Speaker 3: this folklore that tells you something and not investigate it.
Speaker 3: That's not how anything works, and so I don't think
Speaker 3: it should work, but it shouldn't work with religion. And
Speaker 3: so we have an obligation to point to the things
Speaker 3: that counter these arguments, especially when these arguments are incredibly weak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is kind of like on the
Speaker 1: it may be it may be a bit off putting,
Speaker 1: but we're not necessarily off putting, but a little bit
Speaker 1: of strain. When you talk about people like taking like
Speaker 1: different connections into patterns that they happen to see and
Speaker 1: coming up with certain conclusions. I believe that's called if
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, you know, apenia, is the tendency
Speaker 1: to proceed meaningful connections between unrelated things. And and it's
Speaker 1: kind of like in in the process of like how
Speaker 1: we actually look at patterns. Right, So, like say, for instance,
Speaker 1: all of us happen told the story about Noah's Ark,
Speaker 1: especially like if you grew up Christian or if you
Speaker 1: grew up in some type of Abrahamic religion influence. Right,
Speaker 1: So if we happen to not only hear the story
Speaker 1: but believe the story, when we go out to seek
Speaker 1: more evidence to corroborate the story, we're going to look
Speaker 1: at all types of different patterns, all types of different
Speaker 1: you know formations. As you mentioned, Jimmy and I come
Speaker 1: to this party, your conclusion that that's the boat, that's
Speaker 1: the boat right there. You know, even though, like, if
Speaker 1: you really look at it at a scientific level concerning
Speaker 1: a worldwide flood, there is possibly no way that the
Speaker 1: entire world could have flooded with water and then received it, receded,
Speaker 1: and then you know, all of a sudden like ended
Speaker 1: up on the top of Mount Sinai. We don't have
Speaker 1: enough atmospheric water between you know, the you know, gas
Speaker 1: to state and even our oceans to even do that.
Speaker 1: And and then a lot of times when people talk about, well,
Speaker 1: there's been stories around the world about you know, worldwide floods,
Speaker 1: I said, there have been stories about World five floods. Yes,
Speaker 1: but please keep this in context that you're talking about
Speaker 1: people who were only aware of the geographical location that
Speaker 1: they were in at that particular time. They are not
Speaker 1: people who were going all over to the Western Hemisphere,
Speaker 1: to the Antarctic, to the Arctic Circle and back again
Speaker 1: in order for them to observe these things, let alone
Speaker 1: being able to have access to technology to be able
Speaker 1: to actually visually see these things, as far as like
Speaker 1: using satellite or of things of that nature, so that
Speaker 1: they can actually see if there are areas that happens
Speaker 1: to be flooding, or if you have like oceans that
Speaker 1: happen to be absorbing more water to the point that
Speaker 1: it's actually hitting light. Right, So I think that this
Speaker 1: with a doubting Thomas society and also talking about Gilgamesh
Speaker 1: Gilgamesh at Uruk. I'm sorry, listen, guys, I live on
Speaker 1: and prosper I am going to be utilizing this whole
Speaker 1: particular segment to actually be going on Darmark and Jelada
Speaker 1: to Nagra. My bad. But if I get back to
Speaker 1: the serious part, that's what we're dealing with here. We're
Speaker 1: dealing with, you know, people who are scientis air quotes
Speaker 1: with unfoundable academic credentials to say this is a thing.
Speaker 1: Yet if we I would be curious to know, and
Speaker 1: I think that I would like for both of you
Speaker 1: all the time and with your thoughts, your final thoughts
Speaker 1: about this, if these people were probed by actual skeptics
Speaker 1: who happened to be in the scientific community, who are
Speaker 1: actual art archaeological archaeologists, paleontologists, people who actually study these things,
Speaker 1: geologists who are actually very much so aware of how
Speaker 1: rocks form and how volcanic volcanic eruptions could have actually
Speaker 1: been contributed to these things as well how they will
Speaker 1: react and where and where their answer would lie, or
Speaker 1: if they were in probe with these particular questions, if
Speaker 1: they were just completely obscate anything that would be something
Speaker 1: that would actually give credence to what they what they
Speaker 1: have found. Uh, do you think that would be a
Speaker 1: thing or no? And how do you think it would go?
Speaker 1: So Eli, I would like for you to, you know,
Speaker 1: just ponder, you know, conjecture that, and then Jimmy, I
Speaker 1: would like for you to also, you know, come back
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it is on record that doctor Yrsul, which
Speaker 2: is Andrew Jones's partner, his research partner, who the actual
Speaker 2: geophysicist with a specialty in geophysical engineering that operates the machinery,
Speaker 2: he does not agree with Andrew Jones's interpretation of the findings,
Speaker 2: and that it is that is on the record. He
Speaker 2: has been verbally his ideas have been verbally outright rejected
Speaker 2: by geologists, archaeologists, anthropologists, and other geophysicists, apart from his
Speaker 2: own partner. So it's not a we don't have to
Speaker 2: ponder like how would this go? We know that like
Speaker 2: no experts that do have verifiable public records of professional,
Speaker 2: academic or educational backgrounds in some field that is relevant.
Speaker 2: They say, no, that's a that's a natural formation. Just
Speaker 2: like Jimmy pointed out at the beginning, I think in.
Speaker 3: Order in order to convince or or cause somebody who
Speaker 3: takes such a staunch position that this is proof of
Speaker 3: their their folklore, in order to do that and change
Speaker 3: their mind or even chalde their view, you would have
Speaker 3: to really isolate them and make them listen to you.
Speaker 3: So I think I've seen this actually happen being in
Speaker 3: the military. Eli maybe you can you you were in
Speaker 3: the military, so maybe you can relate. But when you're
Speaker 3: when you're deployed and you're sent somewhere where you're not
Speaker 3: used to, you kind of bond with people that are
Speaker 3: not at all like you, and then you start to
Speaker 3: like pick up each other's habits, mimic each other's behaviors,
Speaker 3: maybe talk about things and understand things from their perspective.
Speaker 3: In this scenario, when you have archaeologists that are that
Speaker 3: are so well trained and so expert in their field
Speaker 3: saying this is wrong, the people that are that are purporting,
Speaker 3: you know, these falsehoods to be correct can just turn
Speaker 3: around and go back to their flock. When you're isolated.
Speaker 3: You can't do that right and when when you're in
Speaker 3: a position where you can't turn back to your flock,
Speaker 3: you have to hear the facts. Uh and and you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes that might be effective. Other times it might just
Speaker 3: be a means of survival. But you know, or were
Speaker 3: getting your needs met. You know how many people go
Speaker 3: to prison and change, you know, they just it's something
Speaker 3: that you do because the environment calls for it. You know,
Speaker 3: you go in and you're more religious, You go in
Speaker 3: and you were never racist before, but now you hate
Speaker 3: everybody that's not like you, and you just kind of
Speaker 3: have to do it. And I think in certain scenarios,
Speaker 3: you know, when you force people to kind of think
Speaker 3: about things differently, that that might be the only way.
Speaker 3: But given the freedom to go back to their indoctrinated group,
Speaker 3: they're going to stay indoctrinated. So you would literally probably
Speaker 3: have to cuff them to a table and be like,
Speaker 3: if you want this cooke, can you're going to listen
Speaker 3: to my story and you're you're going to listen to
Speaker 3: my science. I don't know, but I would say it's
Speaker 3: not going to be an easy feet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: It's really about like taking the things that you are
Speaker 1: believing and then trying to do your best to get
Speaker 1: corroborating evidence to feed into your belief. And I think
Speaker 1: that what's really happening here is that what was found
Speaker 1: just like reinforce the myths and also the symbolic expressions
Speaker 1: of what they believe, and not necessarily, you know, really
Speaker 1: with real literal accounts of historical events. Even though that
Speaker 1: we can possibly say that we can put biblical myths
Speaker 1: and legends or even like Babylonian myths and legends, et cetera,
Speaker 1: into a category of historical events because they were told
Speaker 1: in the past, it's still not necessarily something that I
Speaker 1: believe that we should necessarily give credence to as actual facts.
Speaker 1: And shout out to least to the to the geologist
Speaker 1: that was with Andrew Jones that actually told him like, look, bro, no,
Speaker 1: you really want to believe this, but your theory is
Speaker 1: full of shit.
Speaker 2: It's really exploitative. Honestly, it feels like, you know, because
Speaker 2: he's a local, you know, Andrew Jones moves to Turkey
Speaker 2: and finds it local to you know, speak to the locals,
Speaker 2: get the permits, operate the equipment, lend scientific legitimacy to
Speaker 2: it to his project, and then completely ignore his actual
Speaker 2: input because his respect for his knowledge falls just short
Speaker 2: of actually listening to him.
Speaker 1: That is a powerful creenes to indoctrination people