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<v Speaker 1>On September fourth, at Appalachi High School in winder Georgia,

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<v Speaker 1>we saw the thirty ninth school shooting this year. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to say that again. Thirty nine school shootings have

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<v Speaker 1>taken place in the United States in twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're in September, and that's current as of five

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<v Speaker 1>days ago. The article that I'm going to discuss entails

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<v Speaker 1>a Spanish teacher protecting her class during that shooting in

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<v Speaker 1>a state where the starting salary for a teacher is

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<v Speaker 1>seventeen thousand dollars less than the state's minimum living wage,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's according to the National Education Association. The teacher,

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Carter, cites training, God, of course, and her bulky

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<v Speaker 1>furniture in protecting kids. But what we cannot do is

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<v Speaker 1>attribute the state of Georgia to having any positive impact

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<v Speaker 1>whatsoever on this situation, as it is ranked forty sixth

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<v Speaker 1>in the nation in terms of gun law strength. When

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<v Speaker 1>is Georgia, in fact, when is this country going to

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<v Speaker 1>get its priorities straight and protect children and restore safety

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<v Speaker 1>in the classroom. This story is from NPR by Emma

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<v Speaker 1>Bowman on seven Excuse me, September seventh, twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 1>and gentlemen, I know what I'm supposed to do here,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, and I know what I want to do, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to empathize with this teacher, Ms. Carter, and

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<v Speaker 1>I want to congratulate her. I want to say that

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<v Speaker 1>my heart goes out to her, because it really does.

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<v Speaker 1>It really does. This must have been absolutely traumatic, and

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<v Speaker 1>you can tell that it was in her recount of

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<v Speaker 1>the story, and so you know, I know that as

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<v Speaker 1>an American, especially because this is a problem that's unique

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<v Speaker 1>to America, as an American, and as somebody who loves

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<v Speaker 1>this country and somebody who loves our children and loves

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<v Speaker 1>our teachers, I want to be incredibly empathetic and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just support her however I can with my voice if

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<v Speaker 1>I can. On the other hand, though, gentlemen, I would

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<v Speaker 1>be remiss if I didn't question some of the antics

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<v Speaker 1>that are in this story. And I do it from

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<v Speaker 1>a completely skeptical perspective and not one that's created goal

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<v Speaker 1>of Miss Carter. Right. But you know, I was looking

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<v Speaker 1>over kind of our documents preparing for this show, and Jonathan,

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<v Speaker 1>you had mentioned something that I wanted to harp on.

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<v Speaker 1>So Miss Carter you know, she starts her recount of

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<v Speaker 1>this tale excuse me, I shouldn't say tale of this

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<v Speaker 1>event on her Facebook post saying I lied. I had

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<v Speaker 1>to lie to my students, right, and she did. She said, guys,

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<v Speaker 1>this is just a drill. Get down behind the couches.

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<v Speaker 1>And Jonathan, you said something to the effect of lying

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe just a good headline, right, You maybe think

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<v Speaker 1>this was the introducing the story by highlighting that she lied.

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<v Speaker 1>Was maybe is there something more to that? Did I

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<v Speaker 1>read that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? To me, it sounded like clickbait, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>and it probably pretty much was. Because lying in that

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<v Speaker 2>situation is not an issue. It's not a factor in

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on. It's not bad to lie in that situation. Morally,

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<v Speaker 2>there was no issue with it. But you know, making

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<v Speaker 2>it out like she had a moral issue with lying

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<v Speaker 2>to her kids, I think is kind of looks more

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<v Speaker 2>like a marketing tool to me than an actual regret,

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<v Speaker 2>because she was saving their lives. So I think that

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<v Speaker 2>was you know, the overwriting concern is keeping them calm,

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<v Speaker 2>sort they're not screaming and yelling so and thus attracting

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<v Speaker 2>the gunman, you know, so keeping calm keeping, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>hidden that. You know, if you have to lie, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to cheat, you have to steal, you do it

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<v Speaker 2>until you get the threat passed, and you know. And

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<v Speaker 2>so that's the one thing I was kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>struck me as reading the article that seemed more like

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<v Speaker 2>the writer of the article making that point than the

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<v Speaker 2>lady herself, because I don't think that was as big

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<v Speaker 2>a deal for her as it was made out to be.

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<v Speaker 1>You're probably right, You're probably right now that you mentioned that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, she did. She did start her Facebook post

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<v Speaker 1>recounting this event with eyelide. But yeah, it did become

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<v Speaker 1>the central focus of this article, didn't it, Kelly. I

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<v Speaker 1>know that you had some comments on that as well, So.

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<v Speaker 3>I think she did feel bad about it. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think she might have felt bad about it in the

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<v Speaker 3>immediate moment, but I would have felt bad about it.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel bad about when I do things like that

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<v Speaker 3>because I worry about if the means justify the ends, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And I can see where her first thought was, I've

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<v Speaker 3>got to keep the kids calm, I've got to keep

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<v Speaker 3>them chilled out safe, and I can do that through

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<v Speaker 3>lying to them. And she did it, and then two

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<v Speaker 3>days later she thought to herself. Boy, you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't like lying the kids. It jeopardized my position as

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<v Speaker 3>a teacher when I lied to them, And I yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I could see where she was, like morally worried about

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<v Speaker 3>what she had done, even though she did save lives.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a really really hard place to put yourself into.

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<v Speaker 3>I certainly wouldn't want to be her, and my heart

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<v Speaker 3>goes out to her, just like you said, Jimmy, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I really feel for this moment and I'm so glad

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<v Speaker 3>she her and her students came out safe after this event.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, And you know I read say that again Johnson.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like it's like the trolley problem all over again.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, kind of damned if you do, and damned

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't, you know, morally, Yeah, they have to

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<v Speaker 2>make a decision.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think, uh, I think what what we are

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<v Speaker 1>overlooking or what not? What we are overlooking? But I

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<v Speaker 1>think what was was kind of overlooked in this article

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<v Speaker 1>was the way that teachers are treated, the environments that

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<v Speaker 1>kids and teachers have to exist in on a daily basis.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I want to just read out what somebody

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<v Speaker 1>commented on miss Carter's Facebook posts A guy named Landon Benson.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't know who he is, probably just a community member,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe a friend. Family. Every single teacher feels this like

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<v Speaker 1>a gut punch. I find myself scanning rooftops when I'm outside.

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<v Speaker 1>I consider where will we run from out here in

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<v Speaker 1>the field, How would I get their attention when they

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<v Speaker 1>are far from me? How quickly will we react? Almost daily?

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think that really is what we should

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<v Speaker 1>be focusing on, not necessarily miss Lambert's account of this event,

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<v Speaker 1>but the larger picture here that we have this faction

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<v Speaker 1>of our society, if you will, which are teachers? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>We rely on them across our culture as Americans. We

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<v Speaker 1>rely on teachers for eighteen years plus at least, and

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<v Speaker 1>they are in a position where they are living a

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<v Speaker 1>life as if they are the head of some security organization.

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<v Speaker 1>And it really isn't fair. I opened up this article

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<v Speaker 1>with in my introduction talking about how underpaid they are,

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<v Speaker 1>And now, of course we're in this debate do we

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<v Speaker 1>arm teachers? And I kind of want to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>that a little bit. If you guys don't mind, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to ask both of you your thoughts. Kelly, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>start with you this time. You know, where do we

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<v Speaker 1>stand on arming teachers? No? Okay, that was very quick.

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds like you've been thinking about this a while.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I've thought about it.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give you reasons.

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<v Speaker 3>But let's hear John Hans to say. So, okay, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>say we can do it back and forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, I don't know what you think I was going

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<v Speaker 2>to say. I was gonna don't know you No, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you know a thousand times.

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<v Speaker 1>No.

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<v Speaker 2>Militarizing the schools is just making it worse for the kids.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember full well. And so you, Kelly in elementary school,

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<v Speaker 2>diving under my desk for nuclear drill. Okay, terrorized, literally

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<v Speaker 2>terrorized for the first six seven grades that I was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know that we did that for and I was

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<v Speaker 2>just a little kid, And that imprints on you. We're

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<v Speaker 2>not doing the children any favors by by the how

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<v Speaker 2>we're treating it now. And to make it worse by

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<v Speaker 2>seeing the very instruments of death that they're afraid of

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<v Speaker 2>toted it around in their school, you know what are

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<v Speaker 2>they going to think?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>And so it scares me that we're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>creating a whole another group of people who are are

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<v Speaker 2>just terrified to.

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<v Speaker 3>Live in an instance like this, I'm always worried about.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, we always we often hear stories about the

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<v Speaker 3>policeman who left his gun in the bathroom. Ah, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we always hear stories about the policeman whose gun got

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<v Speaker 3>taken away from them. They're going to scuffle, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>what that's what I worry about. That's why I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think guns belong in the school at all. Especially. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>it's one thing for the policeman who's been highly trained

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<v Speaker 3>to use that gun, to have that gun, to have

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<v Speaker 3>that gun in a safe position, But we are now

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<v Speaker 3>going to rely on teachers who are already not making

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<v Speaker 3>enough money to survive, to now have to take on

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<v Speaker 3>the role of also being a policemen.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean they've already got a job to do, yes, yes, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, and it's not just policemen that leave

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<v Speaker 1>their guns around. You know. I have been in Afghanistan

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<v Speaker 1>and somebody lost their pistol and an interpreter, an Afghan interpreter,

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<v Speaker 1>returned it, Thank goodness, Right, somebody who should not have

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<v Speaker 1>had a weapon returned it to the person that was

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<v Speaker 1>in charge of the area of the base that we

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<v Speaker 1>were staying on. They called them the camp mayor or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, you know this this speaks to the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that we when it comes to guns, don't really have

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<v Speaker 1>a good grasp on this situation. You know, people, people

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<v Speaker 1>are people, teachers are are above average people. But at

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the day, they're not trained professionals with weapons,

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<v Speaker 1>and nor should they be expected to be, because they

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<v Speaker 1>have they have a job to do. And we have

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<v Speaker 1>as a society already facilities in place and and and

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<v Speaker 1>uh an apparatus in place to use guns and to

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<v Speaker 1>protect us. Right, which brings me to my next point. Guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh So, gun laws in Georgia number forty six in

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<v Speaker 1>the country. Of course, for those of you who don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>we have fifty states, so they don't see wheth don't

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<v Speaker 1>ask me either Hawai or I don't know. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it is probably. But in any case, so

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<v Speaker 1>Georgia doesn't do anything to protect their gun laws, but

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<v Speaker 1>they do require schools to have an annual gun gun

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<v Speaker 1>active shooter drill by October first each year. Now think

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<v Speaker 1>about that. We are in September. It's September eighteenth today

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<v Speaker 1>right as we're recording. And for those of you who

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<v Speaker 1>figured out that we pre recorded this and it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>not next Wednesday when you're watching this, but it's this Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I gave. I gave our secret away. But

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<v Speaker 1>at a time where we're supposed to be getting our textbooks,

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<v Speaker 1>learning our new language, learning our times tables. Instead we're

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<v Speaker 1>focused on getting this drill done by October first. I

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<v Speaker 1>digress a little bit, or I rant a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean, what do you guys make of our

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<v Speaker 1>priorities not being in order? Well?

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<v Speaker 3>I make I make that You're right, our priorities are

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<v Speaker 3>not in order. I think if they were, we might

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<v Speaker 3>have been working at more diligently on solving this school

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<v Speaker 3>shooting problem. I mean, it is probably one of the

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<v Speaker 3>most prevalent problems in America today, and yet we can't

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<v Speaker 3>seem to get our shit together, to even get a

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<v Speaker 3>paneled together to try and solve it. We can't even

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<v Speaker 3>get a committee together to investigate and solve it. And

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<v Speaker 3>that's a real problem, and it does say something about

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<v Speaker 3>our priorities. Who the fuck in our government is running

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<v Speaker 3>the show that they cannot protect our children. This is

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<v Speaker 3>something that is really really important, and it's important to

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of Americans, and yet these idiots that we

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<v Speaker 3>keep electing just keep blowing the problem off like it's nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>And I know we have a few people in Washington

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<v Speaker 3>that are talking about it, that are yelling that we

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<v Speaker 3>need to do something, but nothing is getting done.

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing. I have a couple of comments. One is that

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<v Speaker 2>how does the fourteen year old get the weapons to

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<v Speaker 2>go into a school and shoot it up. This guy

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<v Speaker 2>was fourteen years old. Granted they arrested him. He's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be tried as an adult, probably spend a long

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<v Speaker 2>time in jail, which is not the great place for

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<v Speaker 2>them him to spend his teens and the young life.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, he's going to learn how to be

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<v Speaker 2>a better criminal at that point. But you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>the other point is that gun violence is the leading

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<v Speaker 2>cause of death for young children in the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>the leading cause. It's not you know, illness, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>falling off a bridge, it's not getting run over by

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<v Speaker 2>a car. It's gunshots. And in what reality do we

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<v Speaker 2>allow that to happen to children. They're always screaming but

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<v Speaker 2>the kids on everything. Yet they allow their children to

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<v Speaker 2>go to school and not come home. What the fuck

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<v Speaker 2>is wrong with these people?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and you know what, they're not only just screaming

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<v Speaker 1>just the kids, but they're screaming thoughts and prayers as

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<v Speaker 1>if that's going to do something for them, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And I can't help but play devil's advocate here because

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<v Speaker 1>I've already said it before. I'm super grateful for people

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<v Speaker 1>like Ms Carter who can think quickly, yes, and who

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<v Speaker 1>can who can get these kids to safety. But you

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<v Speaker 1>know she asked her kids to hide behind couches, and

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<v Speaker 1>that she purchased big, bulky couches where they took cover.

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<v Speaker 1>But her remark in that recount was, thank God, I

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<v Speaker 1>ditched the desks for balty bulky furniture. We're thanking God

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<v Speaker 1>for this, I mean, we really, is this really where

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<v Speaker 1>our minds are. We're thanking God for the actions of

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<v Speaker 1>that day. And I don't mean to pile on miss Carter,

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, what she did was very effective, and

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like she would have continued to fight had

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<v Speaker 1>she been in that situation, but to a larger in

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<v Speaker 1>a larger respect, our minds are not on solving problems,

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<v Speaker 1>not in Georgia. We're not solving problems in Georgia. We're

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<v Speaker 1>praying to invisible gods that allow shootings to happen and

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<v Speaker 1>saying thank you for not me, for not allowing me

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<v Speaker 1>to be shot. And then we're re electing people who

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<v Speaker 1>don't solve the problem and instead make us prepare for

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<v Speaker 1>the problem by having us do drills while not relinquishing

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<v Speaker 1>any of their poor gun laws. And so that's my

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<v Speaker 1>rant on all this, gentlemen, What does this story tell

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<v Speaker 1>us about how our youth have to grow up now?

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<v Speaker 1>And Jonathan, great point on the nuclear weapons, but on

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<v Speaker 1>the nuclear drills, But are we in a different scenario

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to get your takes on that or

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<v Speaker 1>is this different than that?

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<v Speaker 2>It is? It is so different because this is an

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<v Speaker 2>immediate threat. Nuclear war was like, okay, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>get down under our desk and put our heads down

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of thing and basically just kiss our ass goodbye,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. But that was it, you know. But it

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<v Speaker 2>was terrifying because we knew they even as a small child,

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<v Speaker 2>I knew that we were doing this because the world

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<v Speaker 2>was ending, you know, at that point. But it was

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<v Speaker 2>it was more often the distance gunfire inside your school

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<v Speaker 2>is an immediate threat to you personally, It's terrifying that's

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<v Speaker 2>the subject of PTSD. Imagine giving your children PTSD when

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<v Speaker 2>they are five years old, they just started school, or

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<v Speaker 2>all the way through teenagers in high school. You know

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<v Speaker 2>Marjorie Stoneman High School here. You know this was a.

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<v Speaker 3>High school PTSD from that age.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, having having somebody right here who's

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<v Speaker 2>had PTSD since that age, you know, it's it's like

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<v Speaker 2>that's going to affect the rest of their lives. You

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<v Speaker 2>are basically ruining lives here. They will never be able

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<v Speaker 2>to think of school in a positive light. A lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the market are. You know, they're gonna you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they The thing is that colleges have had this problem too,

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<v Speaker 2>So saying they're going to go to college and everybody's

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<v Speaker 2>an adult there and it's not going to happen is bullshit, right, So,

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<v Speaker 2>and they know it's bullshit. Kids understand an awful lot

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<v Speaker 2>more than you think they do. Parents out there and

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<v Speaker 2>you think they don't know what's going on, think again,

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<v Speaker 2>you know they do. They're very perceptive. They catch little

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<v Speaker 2>nuances and voices and things just like anybody else. They

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<v Speaker 2>may not be able to put words to it, but

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<v Speaker 2>they understand it. So just if you want to think

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<v Speaker 2>about the kids. Let's seriously think about the kids and

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<v Speaker 2>what we need to do to get this situation away

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<v Speaker 2>from the schools and away from their lives, because you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to grow up. They're going to have a whole

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<v Speaker 2>generation growing up just fearful. Now, maybe that's what you want,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, it's not a good thing for the kids.

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<v Speaker 2>So wake up, you know, and smell the roses and

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<v Speaker 2>get rid of the guns.

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<v Speaker 3>Kelly, first off, I want to say screw you, John,

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<v Speaker 3>because now I got that song going through my head.

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<v Speaker 3>Duck and cover, Duck and cover.

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<v Speaker 1>Jimmy don't know what I'm talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>Your wigg Yeah, you lost me.

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<v Speaker 1>I think maybe we had.

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<v Speaker 3>We had to watch we had to watch a little

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<v Speaker 3>five minute black and white cartoon about how to save

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<v Speaker 3>ourselves when the nuclear bomb landed.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, And that was what we.

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<v Speaker 3>Were supposed to do. Dian had a cute, catchy little

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<v Speaker 3>song about duck and covering. So that's what John mentioned

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<v Speaker 3>back in those days and having the drills, and we'd

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<v Speaker 3>always watched that movie before the drill.

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<v Speaker 2>Old defense pictures from the Defense Department.

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<v Speaker 3>Different, isn't it, Because like when I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 3>I never heard of a school getting nuked. I never

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<v Speaker 3>heard of a bunch of school kids getting killed by

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<v Speaker 3>an Adam bomb, right, So this is a completely different mindset.

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<v Speaker 3>There's actually kids getting gunned down in their schools and

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<v Speaker 3>other kids are hearing about this. So yeah, it is

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<v Speaker 3>a different thing. It's completely different. And I'm just thankful

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<v Speaker 3>that I'm not a kid nowadays, because I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>how I'd be able to deal with that, especially with

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<v Speaker 3>what I had to deal with to begin with as

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<v Speaker 3>a kid, you know, having this pile down it, it

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<v Speaker 3>would have drove me.

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<v Speaker 1>Crazy, absolutely absolutely, and it affects society as a whole,

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<v Speaker 1>as somebody who has a child in preschool and in

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<v Speaker 1>high school. Uh, you know, I never thought that i'd

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<v Speaker 1>be dreading a call like that, you know. But sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes I think about it is today the day that

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<v Speaker 1>it happens to me? Because we're all we're all at

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<v Speaker 1>one time or another about many different things. I'll never

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<v Speaker 1>get sick, I'll never get into a car wreck, I'll

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<v Speaker 1>never it won't happen to me. But is today my day?

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<v Speaker 3>You know?

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<v Speaker 1>And society parents shouldn't have to worry about That's right,

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. Parents shouldn't have to worry about it. Kids

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<v Speaker 1>should be able to enjoy themselves and learn comfortably, and

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<v Speaker 1>teachers shouldn't have to wonder if they're going to need

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<v Speaker 1>to be an expert marksman instead of grading midterm papers

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<v Speaker 1>or coming up with lessons and things like that. And

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<v Speaker 1>so that's why where our society is backwards. I just

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<v Speaker 1>want to put this on you, gentlemen, that you know

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<v Speaker 1>I said that there were thirty nine school shooting so

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<v Speaker 1>far this year as of September September thirteenth, twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>Last year, I don't think well, first of all, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think anybody probably knew that. Not you, but in general,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think the general public would know that we

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<v Speaker 1>had eighty two last year in seventy nine the year before.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to give you. I want to ask you both,

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<v Speaker 1>is this normal now? Because people like to say, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>this is becoming normalized, we are becoming desensitized. I would

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<v Speaker 1>argue we're way past that point.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, we are.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to know what you guys think about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I would agree that we are way past the normalization park.

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<v Speaker 2>You ever notice these things become You hear another shooting

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<v Speaker 2>and it's kind of like, well, change it to yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, that's right. It used to be. You get

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<v Speaker 2>all upset about it, but you can only get upset

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<v Speaker 2>about things so much, and if they start being frequent,

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<v Speaker 2>you just you can't emotionally deal with it, so you

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<v Speaker 2>shut it out, you know. But instead of doing something

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<v Speaker 2>about it, you're ignoring it.

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<v Speaker 3>It is normal, and it doesn't have to be. That's

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<v Speaker 3>the thing. It doesn't have to be sure people standing up.

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<v Speaker 3>It's going to like the kids from Florida or the

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<v Speaker 3>parents from Massachusetts. It's going to take more and more

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<v Speaker 3>people standing up who were victims or related to the victims,

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<v Speaker 3>and the people who didn't have anything happen to them

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<v Speaker 3>standing up and making this change happen. It's not going

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<v Speaker 3>to happen any other way. It's not going to happen

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<v Speaker 3>until a majority of Americans stand up and say I

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<v Speaker 3>have had enough of this. We need to do something,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's about time for us to start standing up

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<v Speaker 3>and saying that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well put, well put. Fascinating discussion, gentlemen. I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to say that not only are our elected officials on

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<v Speaker 1>either the state or the national level doing anything about it.

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<v Speaker 1>God's not doing about it either. And I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to remind you of that as a member of the

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<v Speaker 1>atheist community of Austin, it's time to start thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>this from a skeptic perspective. Are we putting all of

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<v Speaker 1>our hopes into an invisible character that is obviously, if

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<v Speaker 1>it is real, not going to help us? And then

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<v Speaker 1>why do we put our support behind people who are

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<v Speaker 1>not helping us? The Sandy Hook children would have been

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<v Speaker 1>in their senior year of school this year, and they,

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<v Speaker 1>like many other many other kids across this country, are

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<v Speaker 1>never going to know what it's like to have a

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<v Speaker 1>normal school experience.