1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Good morning, James. How are you doing today? 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 2: I am doing great? How are you doing? 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely fantastic. And I'm so proud of you for doing 4 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,640 this book. And the reason why is because I'm one 5 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:11,759 of those people that has always been about the water, 6 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:13,519 and so when I see all this jump going on 7 00:00:13,679 --> 00:00:15,480 up in space, it's like, no, no, no, go to 8 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:18,039 the ocean. There is something there in the ocean that 9 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,800 we are totally missing here. 10 00:00:21,559 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. I tend to 11 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,920 think my colleagues and the ocean sciences do some of 12 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,519 the most exciting work, and they're having literally adventures at 13 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:34,759 sea every day, and the story just feels like it's 14 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,759 not being told. So yeah, I agree with you. 15 00:00:38,079 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Is it because we don't make it cool? And yet 16 00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:43,039 your book has all of a sudden inside my childlike 17 00:00:43,079 --> 00:00:47,159 heart is going, oh my god, look at these things. 18 00:00:48,759 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: You know, I personally I struggled early in my career 19 00:00:55,119 --> 00:00:56,880 was did I want to go to the space route? 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,399 Did I want to go the ocean route? And uh? 21 00:01:00,479 --> 00:01:03,560 And they're both. They're both exciting, right, I mean, I 22 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,000 love space And you know, if someone told me tomorrow 23 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,159 I could be an astronaut, I would drop everything go 24 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,560 do that, right, I would be it would be the 25 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,040 opportunity of a lifetime. But the ocean turns out to 26 00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:19,879 be actually a lot more important to us in an 27 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,879 immediate sense and a lot less understood. But I think that, 28 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,400 you know, these opportunities for a scientist to contribute or 29 00:01:28,439 --> 00:01:31,719 a technologist to contribute are really much greater in the 30 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,400 ocean environment. And that's another sort of piece of the decision, right. 31 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,799 So so for me, it's a place where you can 32 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,840 really have you can really have impact. 33 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: Well, you make that very clear when you talk about 34 00:01:42,159 --> 00:01:44,719 the ocean has force as well as habit I never 35 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,599 even thought about that and it's effect on us up 36 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:48,480 here on land. 37 00:01:49,879 --> 00:01:54,439 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, we have that chapter which is the 38 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,079 ocean in your kitchen, uh, And it is so true, right, 39 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,519 you know, we are, I mean, we've always been connected 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,319 to the ocean as a species, right, and and it's 41 00:02:03,359 --> 00:02:07,959 been sort of a route for discovery and exploration for us. 42 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,919 You know, we went over it to you know, find 43 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,520 find new lands. We've depended on it for a sustenance. 44 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,400 So so this whole story of exploration of the Earth 45 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:25,280 and the universe are really kind of timeless. Endeavors. But 46 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,319 for us, you know, the exciting thing now is that 47 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,280 the ocean environment is becoming far more accessible as these 48 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:36,360 new technologies, these new robotic systems are being developed, and 49 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,360 so we're sort of entering this new stage of ocean 50 00:02:39,439 --> 00:02:43,000 discovery where this really this hidden planet, most of this 51 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,719 planet that we live on, which is which is sort 52 00:02:45,719 --> 00:02:51,199 of beyond our senses, is suddenly being revealed. And it's 53 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,120 it's going to be a very exciting time, particularly for 54 00:02:54,199 --> 00:02:59,639 the younger generation of ocean scientists and marine technologists and 55 00:02:59,719 --> 00:03:02,520 all of the people we work in the ocean environment 56 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,280 as this all becomes revealed. 57 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: See, I'm very excited about the fact that AI technology 58 00:03:07,199 --> 00:03:09,520 is now beneath the surface of the ocean, and to me, 59 00:03:09,719 --> 00:03:13,039 I want that AI technology to start asking questions because 60 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,439 it's going to lead us into areas that we haven't 61 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,400 been to yet or we've been afraid to touch. 62 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think this really sort of highlights 63 00:03:24,319 --> 00:03:27,639 one of the places where AI is a lot more 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,199 powerful than our previous tools. So, you know, historically, if 65 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,159 you build an autonomous system, you put it in an environment, 66 00:03:34,199 --> 00:03:36,280 and of course for us, the ocean is opaque to 67 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,439 radio ways, right so we can't operate our underwater vehicles 68 00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:43,000 like an aerial drone, you know, kind of joysticking them 69 00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:45,439 around and watching the video coming back from them. If 70 00:03:45,439 --> 00:03:49,000 they're untethered, they're on their own and they've got to 71 00:03:49,039 --> 00:03:52,280 be able to take care of it themselves. And one 72 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,080 of the things that one of the challenges you have 73 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,919 is you would really like to discover new things, but 74 00:03:58,039 --> 00:04:00,800 at the same time, you don't know how to tell 75 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,639 the robot what's new, right, So how do you tell it, Oh, 76 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,159 go there and discover something new. You're very you know, classically, 77 00:04:08,199 --> 00:04:12,960 you're very good at describing, at detecting things when we 78 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,800 could describe them well. And AI is actually beginning to 79 00:04:16,879 --> 00:04:22,319 open new methods of sort of classifying and understanding the 80 00:04:22,439 --> 00:04:25,600 environment that the robots in and telling what is new 81 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,160 and unique and what and what is kind of old 82 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,959 and boring and it's already seen it seven times, right, 83 00:04:31,319 --> 00:04:33,519 and so that lets you So one of my colleagues 84 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:39,000 calls this Curious Robots Yogi with whole and I think 85 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,600 this idea that we can make robots that actually are 86 00:04:41,639 --> 00:04:45,040 a little explorers themselves and come back to us and say, hey, 87 00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:48,399 look I found this. I never saw one like that before. Wow, 88 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,920 and the scientist. So that's that's kind of the direction 89 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:52,480 we're going. 90 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with James Bellingham coming 91 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,639 up next. How are marine robots shaping our future? We're 92 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,600 back with James Bellingham. I've had this vision of everything 93 00:05:05,639 --> 00:05:08,319 that's beneath the surface of the ocean looking like perseverance 94 00:05:08,399 --> 00:05:10,680 up there on Mars, which then leads me to this question, 95 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,120 are you seeing anything under that water that would remind 96 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,120 you of the surface of Mars, because you know it's 97 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,160 all about water up there, and and really are we 98 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,079 looking at an ocean floor up there? 99 00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 2: Hmm, wow, Wow, that's a that is a great question. Yeah, 100 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,240 you know, I have to admit you know also, uh, 101 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,079 I'm very fond of the Southwest in our country, right 102 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,680 And it's also you do feel you're in something very 103 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,920 ancient when when you're when you're in that part of 104 00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:42,199 the country, you know that one of the things about 105 00:05:42,199 --> 00:05:47,560 the underwater environment is uh, is it's dark, uh and 106 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,279 it's and the ocean is actually opaque to a lot 107 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,000 of our senses. So I think I think the answer 108 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:58,600 is the answer is yes, there are these very dramatic 109 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,079 underwater features you know, for example, I spend a lot 110 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:04,519 of time out of Monterey and the Monterey Canyon is 111 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,439 just it's like a canyon the size of the Grand Canyon, 112 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,439 but you can't see it, you know, if you're up 113 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,120 on the oat on a boat above it, you don't 114 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,680 even know it's there. And so it's not until you 115 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,240 put these underwater systems down and you begin to map 116 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:20,079 them that they slowly become revealed and you realize, yes, 117 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,480 there's large cliffs, and not only that, but in the 118 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,680 ocean environment, a lot of these systems are far more 119 00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:31,879 dynamic than we thought. So I remember when I started, 120 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,920 I ran the engineering department in a Mbari for many 121 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,360 years and when I started, there was one of my 122 00:06:37,399 --> 00:06:39,839 colleagues there, a fellow Charlie Paula, said well, I want 123 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,480 to put this instrumentation down in the canyon because I 124 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,600 know every once in a while of their landslides, and 125 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,199 I want an underwater landslide. And it is part of 126 00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:50,879 what we need to understand. And there's a bunch of reasons, 127 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:55,240 including generating tsunami slide. This is something we should care about. 128 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,279 But I can tell you there was a lot of 129 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,800 pushback because I was a, ah, you know these things. 130 00:07:00,199 --> 00:07:02,079 You know, we're going to have to have equipment out 131 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,480 there for years, maybe decades before something interesting happens. We 132 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,839 ended up putting that equipment out there, and I think 133 00:07:08,879 --> 00:07:10,920 it was within a month and a half it all 134 00:07:10,959 --> 00:07:15,360 got trashed by an underwater landslide and uh and uh 135 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,560 it was it was like, wow, you know, I guess 136 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,759 maybe this is a little more active than we thought. Wow, 137 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,600 And we put some more equipment out out there and 138 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:26,800 it got trashed. By the way, trash is a good thing, 139 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,639 right in this case, because because it's telling us we're 140 00:07:30,639 --> 00:07:33,839 in the right place to catch this activity. Uh. And 141 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,800 and so then you begin to start asking questions of 142 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,399 what caused it. Is there some clue, you know, the 143 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,879 decurrence change. Was there something that we could hear on 144 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,959 a hydrophone. Was it a particularly high tide? Uh? Is 145 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,800 there some Is there something that would give us insight 146 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,920 as to what would trigger these underwater these underwater collapses. 147 00:07:56,399 --> 00:07:59,519 It turns out these underwater collapses, by the way, generate 148 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,839 some of the biggest scenamise, So wow, well you actually 149 00:08:02,959 --> 00:08:06,680 really do care about them, because these locally generated events 150 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,000 can generate just enormous walls of water moving into the land, 151 00:08:11,079 --> 00:08:15,160 destroying everything in their path. So so you really do 152 00:08:15,319 --> 00:08:19,519 you really do care about these things, not only just 153 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,959 from a scientific sense, but we're living next to the ocean. 154 00:08:23,839 --> 00:08:26,360 It's one of the hazards we run and something we'd 155 00:08:26,439 --> 00:08:28,519 like to be able to predict or at least provide 156 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:31,279 warnings on shore to people should they happen. 157 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,879 Speaker 1: I think my fascination with all of this is based 158 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:36,320 one hundred percent on growing up in Billings, Montana, with 159 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,759 the Palisades of the Yellowstone, which they call the Rims, 160 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,240 and they in all my life, they they told me 161 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,320 that that was the the ancient works of an ocean. 162 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,879 And so and I think that's my number one reason 163 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:49,440 why all of this stuff fascinates me, because I wish 164 00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:52,440 I could have seen the Yellowstone Valley underwater, you know, 165 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,440 just like an ocean. Whereas I mean, today we get 166 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,240 to see these oceans, but how long do we get 167 00:08:57,279 --> 00:08:58,279 to see these oceans? 168 00:09:00,519 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a This is also a very interesting question, 169 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,759 right because because there's no question we are we are 170 00:09:07,919 --> 00:09:11,440 we are changing the ocean. We're changing the ocean in 171 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,919 multiple ways. I mean, we're we're fishing down certain fish, 172 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,600 species change. We're changing where the fish are and actually 173 00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:24,000 where some whether some of them even exist in certain areas. 174 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,399 And we know that if we fish them down too much, 175 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,200 they just don't bounce back, right, So that's that's a 176 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:33,799 that's a real concern. And of course the combon impacts 177 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,080 on the ocean are significant as well. Uh, we know 178 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,919 the ocean is becoming more acidic, and as it becomes 179 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,600 more acidic, that affects coral reefs and it stresses fish 180 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,240 because acidity, right, I mean think of when you exercise, 181 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,480 what do you do, you generate you know, acid in 182 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,440 your muscles. So it's it's one of the signatures of 183 00:09:52,519 --> 00:09:57,000 respiratory distress really, and so there's questions there about how 184 00:09:57,039 --> 00:10:01,679 that will affect fishy fishery fisheries and and where the 185 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,720 animals can actually survive. So these are these are very 186 00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:10,360 real and important questions, right because they kind of go 187 00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:13,000 to the question of what kind of ocean are we 188 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,480 leaving our children? And of course the ocean is the 189 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,440 center of even though it's out of sight, right, it 190 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:24,399 is the majority of our planet. If you're an alien 191 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,679 coming to Earth and you are coming from the direction 192 00:10:27,799 --> 00:10:29,759 of the Pacific, when you looked at Earth, all you 193 00:10:29,759 --> 00:10:31,840 would see is this big blue ball. There would be 194 00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:34,639 little bits and pieces of Earth in it, but basically 195 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,039 it would be planet Ocean. As Sylviet Earl likes to say, 196 00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:40,960 we should call it planet Ocean, not planet Earth. 197 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: You got to come back to this show, dude. I 198 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,600 love your attitude. I love where you're growing with this, 199 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,200 and I know that the next generation Alpha as well 200 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,039 as Beta are going to just love this book and 201 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,960 they're they're going to learn from it, and I hope 202 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,440 they invest their life into it. 203 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, me too. Yeah, thank you. I really, I 204 00:10:58,519 --> 00:11:02,840 really hope this inspires inspires people and gets them to 205 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,720 well I hope. I actually, what I really hope is 206 00:11:05,759 --> 00:11:08,200 they get some of my colleagues to tell their stories too, 207 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,120 because there's a lot of great sea stories out there. 208 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: Wow, will you be brilliant today? 209 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, thank you. It was a real pleasure of 210 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:18,000 being with you.