WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:09.800 We're putting the band back together. It's the Three Whisky 2 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:13.640 Happy Hour, the podcast dedicated to single malts and blended 3 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:19.160 opinions with your hosts Steve Heyward, John You, and some 4 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:23.679 mystery woman named lou Kritia, along with a new floating. 5 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:24.800 Cast of regular guests. 6 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:28.199 So pour yourself a dram and settle in for another 7 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:36.479 episode of one hundred proof Conversation. Well, to paraphrase the 8 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.520 Blues Brothers, We've got the band back together. It's sixty 9 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:42.000 minutes to the end of this podcast. We've got a 10 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:44.880 full glass of whiskey in hand, half a pack of cigarettes, 11 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:48.880 it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses, just like Anthony Fauci 12 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:52.039 in his glam cover shot for in Style magazine back 13 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:55.320 in twenty twenty one. More to come on that subject first, 14 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:58.560 But first, welcome everybody to the reboot of the Three 15 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.200 Whisky Happy Hour, which is really just like the old 16 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.959 Three Whiskey Happy Hour, only more of it. So I'll 17 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.799 go through a few of our tweaks in a moment. 18 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:10.200 My co hosts are already shaking her heads at my frivolity, 19 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:12.040 but welcome back, gang. 20 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:14.560 How have you enjoyed your hiatus for the month of July. 21 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:22.920 Who wants to go first, John, I've been traveling a 22 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:25.560 lot and right now I'm in a one hundred and 23 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.840 five degree weather in Texas because I felt it wrong. 24 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:32.719 Did I not share in global warming like everybody else? 25 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:37.599 Well, at least you have air conditioning in Austin, unlike Europe. 26 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.680 You know, our pal Brad Watson has been in Paris. No, 27 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:43.280 I'm sorry, he's been in Rome where it's been over 28 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:45.359 one hundred. I have another friend in Paris where it's 29 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:47.760 over one hundred and they have no air conditioning and 30 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:51.519 no ice in the hotel. I was in a few 31 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:55.359 days ago in Luzerne, Switzerland. They had an ashtray. They 32 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:57.799 had ashtrays in my hotel room and out on the balcony, 33 00:01:57.840 --> 00:01:59.079 but ice, forget it. 34 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:01.400 You couldn't get any ice. That's just where Europe busy 35 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:01.840 these days. 36 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:03.280 I was in. 37 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:06.159 I was in London years ago during a heat wave 38 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:09.319 in London, and I remember at the being somewhere and 39 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:11.680 as seeing far off on the other side of some 40 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:14.960 sort of outdoor park parky kind of thing, a big 41 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:20.319 sign saying ice cold soda. So you know, I had not. 42 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:25.240 I was hot and I'm a little bit less besotted 43 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:27.400 with ice in my drinks now than I used to be. 44 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:28.400 I really wanted to. 45 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:30.639 Drink with ice in it. So I ran over there 46 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:32.960 and it was a bunch of cokes sitting on top 47 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:38.879 of a block of ice. It was the only ice 48 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:42.000 I saw the whole time. Anyway, I've just been. I 49 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:45.599 had a lovely time with John in Berkeley. We had 50 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:51.159 our friends from South Latin America and had a just 51 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:55.599 a wonderful conference on my portion of it was on 52 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:00.000 the rule of law in the America's and it was fun. 53 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.039 We had a good time, great, great guys, great people. 54 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:07.400 There's a few women involved too, So wow, it was 55 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:09.680 great and it was lovely in Berkeley, wasn't it, John? 56 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:11.960 It was even warm for Berkeley. 57 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:14.080 Yeah, it was like seventy degrees. 58 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:15.280 Yeah. 59 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:22.039 Lucretia educated our South American colleagues on the Save Act 60 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:27.120 and the many election malfeasanses that occur here, which to 61 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:30.159 them must seem like nothing. Gearn that they have had 62 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:34.800 such terrible elections. They even make election commissions at independent 63 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:37.599 agencies free of all other government control. 64 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:41.080 Yeah, it was interesting to do here. 65 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:43.840 No, no, no, no, I don't believe in anything outside 66 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.360 of government control. I just believe us in us controlling 67 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:49.599 the government. I did have one interesting thing. I don't 68 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.080 know if I even had a chance to tell you 69 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:53.599 about it, John, but the young man who was the 70 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:58.719 Japanese consul who came and just sat in on some 71 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:02.400 of ours. In my talk, I mentioned, you know, the 72 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:06.599 famous James Madison's statement about what's going to make sure 73 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:12.000 that we have a republican, honest legislature and it's not 74 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:15.039 going to become tyrannical. And he says that it's all 75 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.439 these things, plus that they will never make a law 76 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:21.240 that is imposed upon the people that is not equally 77 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:24.319 imposed upon themselves. And you know, then he follows that, well, 78 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:27.920 what if the legislature ever decides, if the people ever 79 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:32.319 allow the legislature to do that, to pass a law 80 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:34.560 which is on the great mass of the people but 81 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.879 not on the legislators themselves, the people will be will 82 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.720 be prepared to tolerate anything but liberty, which is exactly 83 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:45.040 what Madison says. So you know, then I listed the laws, 84 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.800 many of the laws, some of which have been overturned 85 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:51.199 but or relitigated. 86 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:51.199 Shall we say. 87 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.399 But this Japanese guy was just absolutely fascinated with this idea, 88 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.680 and so he sat there and I had to so 89 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.240 he could write out every single law that had ever 90 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:02.639 been created by Congress in this way. And I just 91 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.600 thought it was a very interesting that this Japanese console was. 92 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:07.519 Out of all the things that people said, that was 93 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:10.399 the thing that fascinated in most. That Congress passes laws 94 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:12.199 and exempts itself from. 95 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:13.959 The reach of those laws. 96 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:16.439 And you know, I agree with Madison on that one, 97 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:18.639 but that was it. 98 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.319 Is there anything you don't agree with Madison on? Maybe 99 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:22.120 I should, I don't know. 100 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:27.279 Yeah, slavery, slavery, maybe slavery. 101 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.759 I mean Madison's claims to have been against slavery as well. 102 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:37.360 But video owned m ya, I know, yeah, he owned slaves. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. 103 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:38.319 There's more than that. 104 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:40.199 I mean, there are some things I definitely come down 105 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:42.439 on the side of Hamilton on, but I'm not going 106 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:48.319 to give John that satisfaction today. 107 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:48.439 Or any day for that matter. 108 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.680 All Right, Madison's okay, it's Jefferson. If you started bending 109 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:58.279 the need of Jefferson, I'd be worried about your sanity. 110 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:00.480 There are things, there are things it is to be 111 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.680 learned from Jefferson, John, But yeah, he was a bit 112 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:04.560 of a nut job. 113 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:05.360 I don't know. 114 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:08.639 Anyway, you look at it over over a long period. 115 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:11.480 Of time, it's a little bit difficult to find consistency 116 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:15.040 in Jefferson the same way you might, for instance, find 117 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:19.759 it in Lincoln, even though you know, politics and circumstances change. 118 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:24.680 There's a consistency to Lincoln that seems markedly absent from Jefferson. 119 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:26.480 But he still has much to teach us. 120 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:28.040 So yeah, there you go. 121 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:29.120 All right. 122 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:33.040 So for listeners who of just the audio version or 123 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.680 the traditional podcast version, you will have heard a new 124 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:39.600 bumper music and a new introduction, and I will tell 125 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.399 you about our British voiceover artists. I'll tell you more 126 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:44.600 about him, I think next week, because I'm not sure 127 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:45.959 we actually have him yet this week. 128 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.480 In any case, here's what's new and improved. 129 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.360 Remember the old There's a little cartoon where someone's holding 130 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:53.399 up a box of cereal. This is new and improved, 131 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:56.160 and someone's asking what's new and improved about it? And 132 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:58.160 he says the new and improved on the labels, what's 133 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:00.720 new about it? So not that much has changed, but 134 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:03.399 we are going to change up a few things. One 135 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:07.079 is we're gonna start having a few cameo appearances by 136 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:09.399 some people that we like just for four or five 137 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.279 minutes most of the time pre taped with me, and 138 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:14.399 are going to rotate from some familiar names and a 139 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:18.199 few new ones. We'll have Richard Samuelson, for instance, offering 140 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:21.079 us either his pun of the week or answering a 141 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.920 question what would John Adams do about a current question, 142 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.600 since he's one of the foremost experts on John Adams 143 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.759 in the country. Today, we're gonna have Alex Prieu, who 144 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:32.519 was a guest host a few weeks ago, who knows 145 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.759 more about classical Greek and the classical Greek literature than 146 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.240 anybody I know, and he's gonna give us a very 147 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.120 brief review of the Odyssey movie, which is dividing everybody 148 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:42.439 in which I still haven't seen. 149 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.480 But it didn't stop you from doing a review of it, 150 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:46.920 Steve that I loved that. 151 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.000 No, I didn't. I didn't. I know, I didn't review. 152 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.560 I just said I can't stand the Emily Wilson translation. 153 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.519 And by the way, Emily Wilson has dumped on the movie, 154 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:58.040 so go figure she's a leftist. It's really strange how 155 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:02.360 it's crossing wires. We're gonna have John you don't know 156 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.000 this yet. We're gonna have from Beyond the Grave some 157 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:06.399 short visits from. 158 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:08.480 Henry Kissinger now and then. 159 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:10.720 So in other words, there's some risk we're gonna become 160 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:14.040 the Hollywood Squares of podcasts. Uh. And we're gonna have 161 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:18.519 more names of cameos, and due course we also want 162 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.360 to try and do their a Lattimore. Yes, that's that's 163 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:25.639 the course. Yeah, John, you was holding up the Lattimore translation, 164 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:30.040 and that's my favorite one. It's also Alex Preu's favorite translation. Yeah, 165 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:34.120 and and uh uh. One of the things we'd like 166 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.480 to do is try to do what we do on Ricochet, 167 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:39.399 which is record every week at a consistent time. That 168 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.799 makes it easier to announce the people when they can 169 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:43.679 tune in when we're gonna do a live show. 170 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:45.000 It's not always possible. 171 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:48.000 Right now, it's completely impossible because our schedules are ull 172 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:51.360 too crazy, and even in Ricochet we don't always keep 173 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:54.840 to that. But when only two of us are available, 174 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:57.840 we'll steal. That's a quorum, and we may have a 175 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:00.159 guest host. We've actually got a guest host intended for 176 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:01.960 next week, and I won't say who it is because 177 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:03.000 he doesn't know it yet. 178 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.559 So I hope it's not that transgender person sticking out 179 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.480 of your bookcase behind you. 180 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:11.320 That is not a. 181 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:14.840 I can't decide if it's a man or a woman. 182 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:17.919 No, it's a it's a that's okay, So what that's 183 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:24.679 about listeners? Okay, so that's leftover. That's a leftover prop 184 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.360 from this morning. So on the Ricochet podcast every week 185 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:30.440 at the end, Charles Cook always has some album covers 186 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:33.519 behind him, and he was absent this week, and I 187 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:35.320 thought somebody's going to take his slot, so I put 188 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:38.000 up the album cover Lilas Can Spot Them, and I 189 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.080 got to put it further back, Lilax can spot them 190 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:41.080 and tell you all about them. 191 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.240 He's like one of those name that tunes kind of guys. 192 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:45.639 That behind me is Lowell George. 193 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:47.679 And of course, neither one of you know about Lowell 194 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:49.759 George because you're both completely. 195 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:51.320 Because we're not into transgender musicians. 196 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:52.200 He's not it. He was. 197 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:55.279 He died forty years ago of alcoholism. But he was 198 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:58.320 the guiding force of Little Feet in its glory days 199 00:09:58.320 --> 00:09:59.039 in the seventies. 200 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:00.320 And both of the will. 201 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:03.200 Say who, of course, because again, you guys are complete credits. 202 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:11.559 But sorry, that's a really interesting an interpretation of cretance 203 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.240 that we don't listen to obscure rock and roll that 204 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:17.039 couldn't make it. 205 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.320 Little Feet was the precursor to Oh come on the 206 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:27.159 Sweet Home Alabama guys blanking on their names. Skinner Yeah no, 207 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:35.279 Little Feet was the prototype Southern rock band. So what 208 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:38.120 what it means is luc see sorryl because you don't 209 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.600 know something, you just kept contempt for it. This is 210 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:42.519 somebody who don't know about but it was a very 211 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:44.799 not an obscure band. They were a very big deal 212 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:47.320 in the seventies and litl George. If you ask any 213 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:50.279 serious musicians will say, yeah, that guy really had his. 214 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:51.519 Blues chops down. 215 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.360 So there so be contemptions to be one because you 216 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:55.320 don't know anything about it. 217 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:56.600 But I'm going to call you out on it. 218 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:59.679 I know a lot about Leonard skinnerd I love Leonard Skinner. 219 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:01.879 I know we'll expand your horizons and start with that 220 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:02.840 guy over my shoulder. 221 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.639 I'm too old to take in new music, Yes this 222 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:07.080 I know. 223 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:11.000 Also yeah right, yeah, it's just it's it's a failing 224 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:11.440 of mine. 225 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:12.799 I admit to it. 226 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:14.600 But no, I don't do it. 227 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:17.559 All right, let us take a quick break, and then 228 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:20.600 we're going to come back and talk about grouchy Fauci, 229 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:31.679 So don't go away. Well, it's been quite a week 230 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:36.879 for Anthony Fauci, and I don't know where to start 231 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:38.399 because we go on a long time about it. But 232 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:42.960 I think at least three questions in my mind. Maybe 233 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:47.960 start with you, John, It's thought that it's obvious that 234 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.360 he is immune from federal prosecutions, I think for what 235 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:53.559 happened during that period. 236 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:55.200 Well all right, well that's the next question. What is 237 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:56.000 he vulnerable to? 238 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:02.360 So you start, Well, what Senator Paul's trying to do 239 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.759 is set up I think what we call perjury trap. 240 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:11.600 So basically, a pardon can only immunize you from things 241 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:15.159 you did before the pardon. You can't be pardoned for 242 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:19.240 things in the future. So your right, Stephen, that he 243 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:24.360 can be a pardon from prosecution for the acts that 244 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:28.279 he undertook before Joe Biden parted him in twenty twenty four, 245 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.919 But if he were to lie about what he did now, 246 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:35.200 that he could be prosecuted for. So that's the difference. 247 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.440 So that's what I think Senator Paul was doing. He 248 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.720 was going to say, okay, Fauci, you said to the 249 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:48.759 American public back then that the most likely explanation was 250 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:52.440 some kind of animal to human transmission of the COVID virus. 251 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:55.720 But then you told your diary also at the same 252 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.960 time that you put together a council of people, the experts, 253 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.840 and eighty percent of them thought it was man made 254 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:06.679 and only twenty percent thought it was natural. So who 255 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.279 were you lying to the diary or the American public 256 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:14.679 back then? So if he I mean, he's screwed. I mean, basically, 257 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.519 he'd have to say I was lying to the public 258 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.919 back then, and if that's true, then he's immunized. But 259 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:24.799 if he were to say, oh, no, I was telling 260 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.960 the truth, well then he's perjuring himself to somebody. Right 261 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:31.840 he's lying to his diary or is lying to the public. 262 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:35.399 And if he's lying under oath and saying that before 263 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.720 the committee, now he can be prosecuted for lying to Congress. 264 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.279 Right now he can't. Biden couldn't pardon him from lying 265 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.919 to Congress in the future. So that's why he took 266 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:47.720 the fifth. If I were a lawyer, I would have 267 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:51.879 told him to take the fifth unless he was prepared 268 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:56.000 to say, which he obviously wasn't that I knew a 269 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:00.440 but I told the American people be which is what 270 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.080 it seems he did. But he doesn't want to say 271 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.080 that in public. So if he's not going to tell 272 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:07.480 the truth about that, then yeah, I would have told 273 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:08.519 him to take the fifth too. 274 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.799 So John, I have a question for you. I have 275 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.639 seen reference to this several times, and I don't know 276 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:16.559 the case and I can't remember the name of it, 277 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:19.879 but there have been a number of commentators who have 278 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:25.120 said that there was a Supreme Court case some years ago. 279 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:27.000 I want to say it was like in the eighteen nineties, 280 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:29.759 but again I just don't remember that says if you 281 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.639 are granted immunity, you cannot plead the Fifth Amendment. 282 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.080 I assumed that you. 283 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:40.120 Can, actually, you know, grant immunity. A prosecutor can grant 284 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:43.399 immunity and make it conditional that you won't plead the 285 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.879 Fifth Amendment because you've been granted immunity. But is there 286 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:51.600 a more blanket constitutional rule coming down from the Supreme 287 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:54.879 Court interpretation that says, if you're granted immunity, you have 288 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.480 to answer questions that are opposed to you. 289 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:01.559 I think people are getting confused about out of who's 290 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:05.320 granting immunity and the difference between immunity and a pardon. 291 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:09.000 So you may recall, well, Steve's the expert on this, 292 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:10.360 remember the around Contra affair. 293 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:11.279 I was going to bring that up. 294 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:18.360 Yes, Yeah, Congress granted immunity to North and Poindexter to testify. 295 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:23.320 That's that's immunity, and that meant anything they said could 296 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:25.399 not be used against them. And the end of one 297 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:29.120 of the great travesties was that the Independent Council of 298 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.559 that time tried to prosecute them anyway, and the DC 299 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:37.159 circuit throughout the prosecutions properly. So I think that kind 300 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.399 of immunity that's just different than pardons. That's a totally different, 301 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.840 totally different thing at work. So, for example, if Congress 302 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:49.279 granted Fauci immunity now, then he couldn't claim the fifth 303 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:51.519 and he would have to testify right now about all 304 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:55.639 this stuff. But Senator Paul's committee did not Grandham immunity. 305 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:56.320 Yeah. 306 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.039 See, that was the question I was going to ask John. 307 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.600 Maybe that was a blunder. Maybe they shou should have 308 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:05.080 granted him immunity for his testimony before Congress and then compelled. 309 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.159 Then he couldn't plead the fifth right, you have to 310 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:07.960 answer questions. 311 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:10.360 At that point, no one's trying to prosecute him. 312 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:12.960 I mean, I think if I remember Iran Contra Wright, 313 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.240 they actually worked out a deal with the Special Council 314 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:19.200 to give North and Pointdexter what they call use immunity. 315 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:21.919 Whatever they said at the at the hearing, I would 316 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:23.840 not be used by the Special Council. And of course 317 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.000 that all blew up because it was all cross contaminated, right, 318 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:27.399 that couldn't possibly stick. 319 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:28.720 But hold on, let me. 320 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:30.759 Finish all that. 321 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.559 Yeah, And the thing is, if you're fauci and you're 322 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:38.080 as arrogant as he is, he could not resist trying 323 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.480 to repeat what Oliver North did without going back to 324 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:42.279 the whole thing is. You know, that was the pivot 325 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:44.799 of those hearings, and North rout of the committee. I mean, 326 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.720 my favorite moment is when somebody asked him something like, 327 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.200 and this document that we can't find, what did you 328 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:53.559 do with it? North said, I shredded it. You know, 329 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:57.559 it was a fantastic moment. I remember what's his name, 330 00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:59.919 Norman Lear, you know, creator of all in the family, 331 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.080 said the North testimony for that week was the greatest 332 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:06.319 television he'd ever seen, because he's so you know, I 333 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.519 would have thought that if you really wanted to wreck 334 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.519 Fauci and blow this thing sky high of how badly 335 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.640 baby behaved, give him complete immunity for his testimony and 336 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:16.759 then compel him to give answers and then you make 337 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.200 him answer those questions about his diary and all the 338 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:20.640 rest of that. I don't think that would have gone 339 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:22.519 very well for him, And then there's a sequel of that. 340 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.559 But yeah, the way to think of it is if 341 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:29.880 you care more about the truth than about putting him 342 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:32.519 in jail, then you grant immunity. So that's why the 343 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:35.240 wrong Contract committee made that decision. And you could say 344 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:39.039 Paul's committee thought it's more important to put him in 345 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:41.960 jail if for viling the law then getting to the 346 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.599 bottom of it, or maybe they feel like they already 347 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.680 know everything because they have his diaries, so why not 348 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.519 just get him in jail now. But you're right, I 349 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:53.839 think Watergate is another example where they gave out a 350 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.839 lot of immunity because they thought it's more important to 351 00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:59.480 just get to the truth of what happened. And then 352 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.240 but you have a trade off to make, which is, 353 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.200 you get the truth from these people, but you can't 354 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.319 prosecute him anymore. 355 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.839 So just I have sorry to beat this point to death. 356 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.079 But the Supreme Court case is actually Brown versus Walker. 357 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.720 It was from eighteen ninety six, and it is not 358 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.440 an immunity case. It is a pardon case. And the 359 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:21.440 Supreme Court determined that if you have a pardon, you 360 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.480 cannot plead the fifth about. 361 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:28.559 The pardoned for. Yeah, for the things he can't be 362 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:32.319 pardoned yet for longing to Congress during hearings that haven't 363 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:33.880 occurred yet. 364 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.119 But do you think that it's but he shouldn't be 365 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.240 able to plead the fifth on anything, right? Or is 366 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.759 that too wide of a reading. If he's being asked 367 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.640 about activities that took place for which he was granted 368 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:51.000 a pardon, which remember was a wholesale pardon. It wasn't 369 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:53.279 your pardon for this crime or this crime or this 370 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.759 crime that you were convicted of. It was anything you 371 00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:58.599 did prior to this time you've got a pardon for, 372 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.839 which means any question when they ask him about any 373 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:04.680 pet time period prior to the pardon would be subject 374 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:08.880 to that pardon, and therefore he could not plead the 375 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:09.480 fifth on it. 376 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:11.680 Am I just being crazy? 377 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.920 No? Because you could be. So here's the You could 378 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:20.359 be convicted of lying to Congress for things which themselves 379 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.720 are not criminal. Right, The crime is lying to Congress, 380 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.039 So whether the thing you are talking about is legal 381 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:29.279 or not. Like if you went to Congress they were 382 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.319 asking him all these funny questions, like what's the color 383 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.200 of your tie, and suppose it's red and he said 384 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:36.400 it was yellow. You could be prosecuted for lying to 385 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.359 Congress for that, or he doesn't have anything to do 386 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.680 with the underlying right conduct, whether it's legal or not. 387 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.240 So I just I have some fair amount of personal 388 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.440 experience with this. I mean I worked on the Hill 389 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.440 where I did investigate one of these executive branch scandals 390 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:55.119 of voting the clin administration, and we thought about granting immunity. 391 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.960 And usually it's interesting, Usually people in Congress want to 392 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.279 grant immunity because they would rather steve is decirement. They'd 393 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.240 rather have the witness say things in front of the 394 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.720 American people about the bad things they did. You know, 395 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.400 having a having any witness take the fifth kills the 396 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:16.880 hearing and it can stall the investigation. But it's usually 397 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.480 the Justice Department, which doesn't want immunity granted. And so 398 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:24.039 maybe the case that the Trump Justice Department, which I 399 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:26.799 bet would love to prosecute Fauci, was by telling Paul, 400 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.960 don't grant him immunity. Don't please, don't grant him immunity. 401 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.720