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Speaker 1: What is up, FELLOWSI goos. I am dan fa Valley

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coming at you once again from the future because I

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just talked to Jason Patt, the editorial director at Clunch

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Points and also the co host of the Cash Considerations

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podcast with Ricky O'Donnell. We just talked about the Chicago Bulls.

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It's their turn to go under the look ahead microscope

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for this coming season very quickly. Just be sure to

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follow Jason on Twitter at Bulls Underscore j That's at

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bu Lls Underscore Jay. It'll also be on screen and

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in the podcast and YouTube descriptions. Conversation was great. We

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get into all things Bulls, individual players, the way that

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they're going to look into play, their direction, the whole nine.

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It was fun. Just a very quick reminder or an

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announcement or news for people that are tuning into us

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for the first time. Hey, stick around, subscribe to us

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across all platforms Spotify, Apple, YouTube, of course the whole nine.

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Comment like these videos help the algo love us back.

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We really do put out a ton of content around

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these parts. If if you are new and we will

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continue to do so, and if you've already been rocking

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with us for roughly forever one. Thank you, we heart

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you to infinity and beyond, or to infinity and Ben Yama,

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how about that? But also share this, tell people about us, friends,

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family members, acquaintances, Rando's, people on the street, coworkers, your enemies,

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even shout us out on Twitter. I will retweet them

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anything to continue to get the good word of Hardwood

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Knocks out there. But that's enough out of me. Let's

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get to talking about the twenty twenty four twenty twenty

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five Chicago Bulls with Jason Pat Jason, welcome back to

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the Hardware Knocks podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.

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I believe I don't know if you know this. It's

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your fourth year coming on for the Bulls look Ahead,

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So this us running it back is almost a half

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decade old. You how are you feeling, knowing with that

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knowledge in your in your basket?

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Speaker 2: I mean, basically running it back kind of like the

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Bulls did for three years. I guess they didn't make

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it to the fourth year. Now that we're talking about

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them actually kind of rebuilding, making moves. I don't know,

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they've obviously made some moves. They're obviously going in a

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somewhat different direction. But yeah, I mean that's crazy. Always

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love joining you, so thanks for having me again.

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Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate your time. Don't want to take up

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to too much of it. So we need to dive

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right in here. And I have to start with this

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before even getting into just the individual moves that happened.

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What in the actual hell do we make of this

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off season? Because I think on its face, it's you

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got rid of de Rosen and Cruso, so it's oh,

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are you taking a longer view but your asset management

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of both and the returns or just I think confusing

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would be like the you know, the best way to

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frame it's like, what does this off season say about

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what the Bulls are trying to do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean I was hoping that they would pivot,

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I mean finally again, running it back again and again

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these last couple of years mediocrity basically against since Lonzo

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Ball got hurt and he still is not back, although

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he says he's gonna come back this year. We'll see,

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but I mean running it back, they did it, they waited,

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They did it at least one too many times this

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past season. There was no reason to run it back

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basically again with the same core, so like they needed to.

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They needed to do this. Of course, the fact that

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they waited so long to do it is how the

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asset management gets bungled. Before last trade deadline, Alex Crusoe,

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tons of rumors out there about teams wanting him. I

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think the Warriors wanted him. They were rumblings about there

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being like I mean, first round picks on the table.

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I don't know about two, but like I know, there

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was a rumor about like a Warriors offer that was

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like pretty substantial and they turned it down. I mean,

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and also like we even go to as Andre Drummond

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two is gone, there were rumors that they had two

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second round picks at least on the table from the Sixers.

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They didn't take that and ends up signing with the

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Sixers anyways, which is hilarious and like the Damar situation too. Obviously,

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Damarrow was great for the Bulls this past season. I

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mean again, he was really good. He saved their ass

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in a bunch of games, and they still only won

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thirty nine games of course, and couldn't even get out

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of the Plane tournament. But like tomorrow, I mean, they

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could have tried selling him at the deadline they could have.

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I mean, honestly, I've mentioned this on our podcast before

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Cash Considerations that a couple of year and a half ago,

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basically two deadlines ago, the Bulls were like seven games

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under five hundred like that or something like that. They

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were going nowhere. They could have They could have kind

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of just pivoted. Then I'm sure Damar with like a

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year and a half left, he's still playing good, Like

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get something for him, then get something of value, then

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maybe a trade crew so then too, they could have

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gotten something great for Cruiser at the deadline at this

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passed to mine either way, like they had multiple outs

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to pivot, they didn't do it. The reasoning behind it,

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the front office has said this year like, oh, like

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we owed it to DeMar to like keep him more

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on him, like go for the playoffs. What stupid, very dumb.

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And that's obviously why they kept Cruso too. And then

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with the actual moves that happened Caruso for Giddy, I know,

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like when that trade happened, I was like, oh, let's

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wait to see the draft pick compensation none zero. Of course,

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there's a straight up the Bulls clearly targeted Josh Giddy

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at like his lowest point of value after he got

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benched by the Thunder in the playoffs, and but they

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really like him. He'll probably put up good stats. Well,

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I know, we'll talk more about him later. And then

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with Damarrow, like at this point again he's as a

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hitting a free agency. They got what Chris Duarte and

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like a second round pick whatever it was, one second

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pick two, I don't even remember how many pick picks,

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but the actual like first round asset went to the

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Spurs because the Bulls didn't want to tick on Harrison

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Barnes's contract because the luxury attack stuff. So like you

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could argue the Spurs basically got like the best asset

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out of that deal when they probably could have gotten

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I mean, maybe they could have gotten the first for

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tomorrow again off two deadlines ago. Maybe they could have

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gotten something better for him the last deadline, but no,

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I mean they owed it to Tomar to go for it,

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and what did that? What did they have the show

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for it? Not even making the playoffs the last two years,

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losing in that second playing game, and not a whole

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lot of assets because you're going in this rebuild now,

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but you're like not really getting you have like no,

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like now real plus assets like maybe Josh Giddy turns

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into one again. We'll talk about him later.

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Speaker 1: Pretty down assets, right because of that pick that probably

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won't convey to the Spurs, but could, Like don't they

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still owe that twenty twenty five pick?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and that too, And that's that's gonna be

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a big part of this upcoming season is they owe

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a top ten protected pick to the San Antonio Spurs

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for when they got tomorrow in twenty twenty one. Uh

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So they do have incentive to be bad this year.

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So like the pivot I think is a good direction,

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but they waited so long to do it. They kind

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of screwed themselves with their asset management. And now you're

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kind of playing from behind with this rebuild, and the

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front office has said like, oh, like we're not really rebuilding,

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like we're kind of rebuilding, but like we're getting experien

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against young players in here to rebuild. Like they've said

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they don't really want to play through the draft, which

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is troubling. So like it is kind of confusing what

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they're what they're actually trying to do. Again, I do

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like that they moved on from Damar bring Damar back

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with it a single single, the same thing. Again, Damar

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was great. He was so much better than I would

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expected him when they signed him to that deal. So

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many people mocked that signing three years eighty one, like, oh,

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that's way too much for Damar, And he outplayed that deal.

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He earned the contract he got from the Kings. It's

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just the Bulls were right to not give that to him,

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but again they waited so long. At least they got

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something instead of him straight walking, but it still wasn't

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that much. And now they're still trying to trade Zach Lavine,

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They're still trying to trade Nikola Gucevich, and it's just

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kind of like a weird place with the team right now.

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But yeah, long way of saying, I'm not really sure

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what's gonna happen and what like their actual goals are

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for the next year or two, but they do have

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incentive to be bad again with that top ten productive picky.

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I want them to be bad this year. And if

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they can be fun bad this year and they keep

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that pick and it stays in the top ten, I

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would be totally happy with that.

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Speaker 1: So when you look at this team, then what is

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the storyline or whatever that you're gonna be following the

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biggest story that you're gonna following most closely throughout the season.

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Speaker 2: It's a good question. I mean, I think that people

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will be tracking the draft pick. That's gonna be a

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big one. Like if you're like you're you're I mean

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they're rebuilding. They want to say, oh, they're not like

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rebuilding rebuilding, You're rebuilding like Damar's gone, You're trying to

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drade Zeclavine. You're trying to get rid of the Kolvu

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switch even though they're still here, Like they clearly don't

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want Zach doesn't want to be here. He doesn't want

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it to be for a long time. Vouch is thirty four,

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he's on the decline. Like those guys are gonna be

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on their way out too, Like the rebuilding, So like

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losing the pick this year would be really hard to swallow,

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Like the only way that that would be good is

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so I guess this kind of plays into the other storyline.

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Are there the young guys they do have? Like are

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they gonna take a big leave? Is like Josh s

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Gitty gonna they're gonna make in the starting point guard?

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Like is he gonna find his game again, is Patrick

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William's gonna take the actually weighted leap? Is Kobe White

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canna take another step forward after finishing second and most

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Improved Player voting. I would assume another good young player

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like those guys gonna step forward and like, can they

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make the bulls? Would they make the bulls? Good enough

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to lose that pig like cod that happen? Like you

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could maybe stomach like them if they were good enough

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to finish outside the top ten? Uh? Maybe? And then

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I get I mean, of course, like the vuochin Zac

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stuff will be something to follow all year two, Zach Again,

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We'll talk about those situations individually in a bit, but yeah, pick,

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keeping the pick while developing young guys is basically story

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of the season for me.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask this just because this has the

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potential to become most dated, if anything we're gonna talk about.

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Speaker 2: Do you think the.

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Speaker 1: Perception we talked about this a little bit last year too,

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has veered a little bit too far away from Zach

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Lavine being a excuse me, useful player because I get

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the reputation, I get the defensive stuff, I get never

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making like a quote unquote leap as a pass or

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even though the assist numbers can be there. I get

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that you've just never been a part of a good team,

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but I still just maybe naive, but I just want

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to see. I look at his contract and I don't care.

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That's one, like I just don't care. And then two

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and my naive just be like I love to just

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see what he looks like outside of the incompetent version

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of Minnesota. And then whatever the fuck this Bulls team was,

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like organization was while he was there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I do think it has like on

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swung the other way because there was like the stuff

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for this offseason, they're like all the Bulls they're gonna

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like have to include a first round pick or like

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even multiple It's like, get off his deal, Like I

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get the deal is not good, but like as the

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whatever the cap is gonna be rising with this new

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media rights agreements that are coming in, like there's that's

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gonna take big jumps, so then the future max contracts

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are gonna be much bigger. And then like a year

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or two like his Agay, yeah, he's got what three years,

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one hundred and forty million or whatever it is left,

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Like that's a lot for a guy who's has not

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said healthy the last couple of years or he's had

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some surgeries. Uh, he's obviously wanted out. And like last

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year he just did not look good because he didn't

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really want to be there and he was also hurt.

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So like I get like his value was certainly like

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not looking good. But like if he comes back and

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like I've seen some videos of him this summer, like

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he's looking pretty good. Great, and uh but if it

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went healthy like two years ago, he ended the year

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really really strong. If you I mean, if you look

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at like the last couple of months of two seasons ago,

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I mean he was putting up I think twenty five,

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twenty six, twenty seven a game pretty efficiently. He basically

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won them that Raptors playing game. Don't look at the

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stats from the Heat playing game, but uh well those.

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Speaker 1: Things just who even tracks. I've never even looked at

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playing stats.

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Speaker 2: Who track? It was funny because yah that like Raptors

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playing there, I think he had like thirty some points,

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sayd the big comeback, and then the Heat game he

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was like three or fifteen from the fielders. Something that

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was almost like quintessentials act, just like consistency not always there,

253
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but I mean still he was mostly consistent that second

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half of the year, and then last year were just

255
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some masks, Like again he was the team started terribly.

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He didn't want to be there. I mean he'd been here.

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He's been there like seven eight years now, and for

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a guy to be on a team this bad for

259
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this long and be like an ulstar caliber players like

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kind of crazy that he's still on the teams, Like

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you understand why he wanted out. And then he like

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came back from his the injury and then it was

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like kind of was whatever, and then whatever he had

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foot surgery. I know people were like, oh, like he

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already was gonna go to the Pistons and he's like,

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I'm just gonna get surgery. I don't think that's actually true,

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but I know people have their conspiracies. But long way

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of saying, I do think he's kind of underrated at

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this point. Like there's no way it should take like

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multiple picks to like get off of him. He's still useful.

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You send him to a lot of these teams, Like

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he still can really help you as a really good

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shooter and a guy who can drive and score efficiently.

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I understand second Apron and all the new CBA rules

275
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and like the team building stuff is a bit more

276
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difficult to take a guy who's making forty five million

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a year and if he's like your third best player,

278
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I know that can be kind of tough, but I

279
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would still think you could at least make make a

280
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value neutral trade for him. So like, ultimately, like I

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do think some of the negativity towards Zach is over

282
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the time. I know you've also and there's also been

283
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the stuff that's all, he's like hard to play with.

284
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Like I know there were rumors about him and Demart

285
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not meshing that grade, and like there was some stuff

286
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about him and Billy Donovan, like just that I think

287
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he was kind of I know, we got upset a

288
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couple of years ago about he got him getting benched

289
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and crunch time. I was at that game and it

290
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was one of the worst games he's ever played. The

291
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absolutely just be benched. But like there have been rumors

292
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that he's like kind of held back grudge against Billy,

293
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So like whatever, the stuff about all, maybe not the

294
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best teammate, not the most coachable, but I don't know,

295
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I mean from whatever, for most of the things you see,

296
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like he's have a pretty good uh face and a

297
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lot during a lot of losing. He's been through a

298
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lot of losing in his career. Some of that is

299
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his fault. He is not an alpha guy, like you're not.

300
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He's not a guy that's gonna like raise your floor

301
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really high, like I feel, I think he could raise

302
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the ceiling of some contenders. So like, so I was hoping, like, oh,

303
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maybe something. If the team's missed out on maybe their

304
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top targets, they could turn to Zach Lavine. Clearly that

305
00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,879
hasn't happened yet. It's gonna have to come back and

306
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show that he can still play this season. It will

307
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,919
be interesting how he kind of fits into the roster.

308
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,120
But yeah, we will see. It's definitely something to watch.

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Speaker 1: Would you do You mentioned like a net neutral trade

310
00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,559
where it's like if the Warriors the Lakers are coming

311
00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,240
calling with just basically shorter term contracts or some expiring contracts,

312
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,080
and maybe Moses Moody is in there in the Lakers case,

313
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like maybe nobody's I don't even know if they put

314
00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:22,440
don't Connect in there. But are you at the point

315
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,120
where because of I don't view Zach Lavine is like

316
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,480
someone who can sabotage the development of others because he

317
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,639
can do so much off the ball. But like, just

318
00:14:29,679 --> 00:14:31,480
to ensure that the Bulls are kind of all in

319
00:14:31,559 --> 00:14:33,960
on the players that matter more to them long term,

320
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,120
would you consider making them like where you're just not

321
00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:38,519
getting a pick or the equivalent of the pick.

322
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 2: Right, Like I would love to get a first, but

323
00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:41,399
I mean just I mean, based on how the league

324
00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:43,559
apparently views him, like, it just doesn't seem like that

325
00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:46,200
might be realistic. I mean, maybe some team gets desperate.

326
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,440
I mean I would take Yeah. I mean, Moody's kind

327
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:49,919
of like a young guy who maybe hasn't gotten the

328
00:14:49,919 --> 00:14:53,320
best opportunity. Maybe he can in a rebuilding situation, maybe

329
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,399
he can flourish. I got an absolutely yeah if it was.

330
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,840
I know, what was the rumor that was out there,

331
00:14:57,879 --> 00:15:00,919
like the Bulls it was like zen for like CP

332
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,240
three and Wiggins, I think, and I think the Warriors

333
00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:05,320
turned it down. Was I think the rumor that.

334
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Speaker 1: Was honestly, maybe the Warriors still thought they were gonna

335
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,840
get like Paul Georgie or Lowry Market. The Bulls said,

336
00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:13,679
we'll take let's say GP two, Kevon Looney Wiggins and

337
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,960
like if you had to include Moody in there, I

338
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,320
think the Warriors are bonkers for not doing that personally,

339
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,679
one because I'm a Moses Moody like die Hard, and

340
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,720
the fact that they haven't really given him enough run.

341
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I just want to see him free. But yeah, if

342
00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:29,000
they said no to that, I think that's stupid too.

343
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, so yeah, But like to answer the question

344
00:15:32,399 --> 00:15:35,240
of the value neutral, yes, I think that just at

345
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,080
this point, they just need need to part ways again.

346
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,000
He's been on the team now seven eight years and

347
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,279
like he seven years Oh my god, I mean how

348
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,159
older we had Jimmy Baller trade twenty seventeen, Like that's

349
00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:51,080
it's absolutely crazy. So like I think they just both

350
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,320
sides just need to split again. Zach, he's been a

351
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,879
pretty good soldier throughout all this time and all this losing,

352
00:15:57,919 --> 00:15:59,399
but it clearly doesn't want to be here anymore. And

353
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:00,960
I get it, like the team has not been good

354
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,799
almost every year he's been here. Wants to go to

355
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,279
a better situation. I mean he's twenty nine thirty now

356
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,000
at this point, and he's had these knee surgeries. I get,

357
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,399
I get it. So like I don't be gard him

358
00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:13,679
at all for wanting out, And there was reporting out

359
00:16:13,679 --> 00:16:16,320
there that like Ak was not happy that Zach kind

360
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:17,919
of went to them and said I want out. It's like,

361
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,399
well why not? Like whatever? Man Like he's trying to

362
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:22,159
take his future in his own hands. He's been through

363
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,720
a lot of losing, Like it's totally fine. It's not

364
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:27,240
like he's causing a scene or anything. So like, if

365
00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:29,200
there's a value neutral trade where you don't have to

366
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,159
give up bassets to do it, why yes, I think

367
00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:34,000
this need to kind of part ways and kind of

368
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,759
break this thing off finally. So again, if you can

369
00:16:36,759 --> 00:16:39,080
play well enough I guess to start the season, maybe

370
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,440
it'll happen. Maybe it'll take another season to where he's

371
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,440
only got two years left on that deal. I believe

372
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,080
he doesn't think he's got a player option that last year.

373
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,879
Maybe maybe it will take another full season of showing

374
00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:53,600
that he's healthy. But if something comes to the table

375
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,399
where again they're not giving up something like important for him,

376
00:16:57,679 --> 00:16:59,200
I think he's kind of got to move on.

377
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 1: I don't have any strong thoughts about Vooch really, so

378
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,119
I very simplanter, who is more likely to be on

379
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,599
this team past the trade deadline, Zach Lavine or Vouch, that's.

380
00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:13,440
Speaker 2: Kind of tough. I my strong thought it I just

381
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,960
need vooch gongs. I can't stand watching him on the

382
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,200
bulls anymore. And just like I feel like he's gonna

383
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:20,039
he's kinda kind of get in the way, like you

384
00:17:20,039 --> 00:17:23,880
talk about like Zach won't kind of like sabotage anything.

385
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,119
Like I think Zach can theoretically fit in with what

386
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,079
they I think they kind of want to play fast

387
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,119
and oh, here's Josh Giddy. We're gonna have him just

388
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,519
get out on the break and like pass the ball

389
00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:35,799
over the place to Zach to Kobe and do all that. Vuch.

390
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,359
We know he's he's a plotter, wants his post touches.

391
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,079
He hasn't shot well at all in the last few years,

392
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,559
so like just does not seem like he's a fit

393
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,400
at all for what they're what they're going for at

394
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,759
this point, Like I just need him out of here.

395
00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:49,920
I'm like, I'm sick of watching him play. Like he's

396
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,160
obviously bad at defense. Do you like he can still

397
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:57,920
put up numbers? So ultimately, with again back to your question,

398
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,559
like with Zach's contract, I do want wonder if he's

399
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,599
still gonna make it through the season, and they do

400
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,559
find Booch was he still I Meanch is making twenty

401
00:18:05,599 --> 00:18:08,000
million a year, he's still got he's got that third

402
00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:11,960
guaranteed year, which there's no hindsight at how bad that

403
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,240
contract was when they signed it. I said when I

404
00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:16,920
saw it was three years sixty million for Buch, absolutely

405
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,200
terrible when they signed it. Proving to be true, especially

406
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,400
this offseason when we see Jonas Valentunez who's around the

407
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,640
same age, uh, probably around the same quality player he

408
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,039
signed for basically half of that, uh, giving like why

409
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,319
you gave Ooch three years sixty million fully guaranteed when

410
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:36,559
they were clearly could have like pivoted away from this roster,

411
00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:40,599
absolutely insane, but for twenty million for again, if they

412
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,400
could or a year and a half of Booch with

413
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:45,160
somebody who needs a big man, maybe trade for him.

414
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,759
I could see maybe that over someone again taking Zach's

415
00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:54,359
condact to so big. So I guess I would guess

416
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,240
Wooch could be traded first, or like Zach would make

417
00:18:58,279 --> 00:19:00,359
it through the year. It just seems like and just

418
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,200
pasting all the reporting like people I can say Zack's

419
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,119
underrated based only just like what people around the league

420
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:08,880
seem to think of him. It just seems like everyone

421
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,599
does not want any part of Zach Levine, and just

422
00:19:11,839 --> 00:19:13,880
like I do, one of the Bulls, just one of

423
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,680
the Bulls will not take a neutral trade. I mean

424
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,559
maybe they would, but like if they're not gonna be

425
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:19,200
holding out for all, we need at least like one

426
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,759
first round pick, like one good young player, like and

427
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:24,200
if no one just gives it to him, like he

428
00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:26,039
might have to play the full season. So I guess

429
00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:28,920
I would. I I kind of think both will end

430
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,559
up being gone by this deadline, but I kind of

431
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:34,519
think that Zach would have a better chance of making

432
00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:36,480
it there. I'll probably be totally wrong about that, but

433
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,559
just the the big just how big that contract is

434
00:19:39,599 --> 00:19:42,559
and how how people around the league just seem to

435
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:44,480
feel about him. It's just tough.

436
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 1: I guess I just view it as, yeah, the view

437
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,640
is not great of him, But it does feel like

438
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:51,000
just because there have been teams that have been mentioned

439
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,200
that they're at least suitors who are waiting for the

440
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,440
best they're asking price, whereas I don't have a suitor

441
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,319
for Vouch. Like this is just I'm not saying he's

442
00:19:59,319 --> 00:20:02,359
a terrible player, but like I don't, I don't have

443
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,720
the team like I just like you're not if you're

444
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,759
New Orleans who needs a big Like sure, but like,

445
00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:10,519
why not have just kept Yona Valentunas on the money

446
00:20:10,519 --> 00:20:12,519
that he got rather than go out and trade for Vouch.

447
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,559
Speaker 2: And with and with the Vuci something we've talked about,

448
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,279
like looking at the roster the Pelicans like one to one,

449
00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:20,440
there's just no trade the Pelicans and the Bulls can

450
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,480
make like they have a bunch of high uh salary

451
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,480
guys and then there's like the one like mid level

452
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,200
contract that would like kind of match up the Booch

453
00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:30,759
is like Herb Jones and like obviously think they're not

454
00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:35,279
trading Herb Jones for Nikola Vucevic. Like the other idea

455
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,720
is like if they do end up trading Ingram, like

456
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,200
can the Bulls get in on a three way trade

457
00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:42,799
and get Vouch to New Orleans so like he'd be

458
00:20:42,839 --> 00:20:46,079
their big man and whatever Ingram goes somewhere else? Uh

459
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,279
and there's some other salary involved like maybe that, but yeah,

460
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,920
why wouldn't they just resign Jonas for whatever level? Basically yeah,

461
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,799
basically the middle of a three years, thirty some million

462
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,799
whatever was half of Vouch's annual salary, Like why not

463
00:20:59,839 --> 00:21:02,200
just keep him so? Like yeah, and then like otherwise

464
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,119
where is the I mean I've thought about the Warriors

465
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,960
of Booch too, like theoretically, like it's still a good

466
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,440
passing big man. He could still rebound, like he'd be

467
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,839
better than Kevan Looney. Uh probably a Looney kind of.

468
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,440
I feel like it's kind of fallen off a bit.

469
00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like twenty years in one yea, I don't

470
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:19,480
know what happened.

471
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 2: So like there might be all to be a match

472
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,480
there because that the Warriors do have. I mean obviously

473
00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:26,920
they got some of these young salaries they have. They

474
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,119
have Looney, I can't remember what his salary is. They

475
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,400
have him that they could throw in Peyton I think

476
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,160
is making with a eight nine million like there are

477
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,039
there might be I know, both teams that the Warriors

478
00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:38,000
are right up against the hard cap, the Bulls are

479
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:39,519
right au against the attack. So like, I know there's

480
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:42,000
like some salaries stuff that would have to like fit

481
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,359
up just like perfectly to make it work. But I

482
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,160
mean maybe again maybe the Warriors, because I mean the

483
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,440
Warriors situation is just so interesting because of what Steph

484
00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:51,759
is still playing at a pretty high level. But they

485
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:54,119
and they strike out on Paul George and Lowry Markten

486
00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,880
like they feel like they need to do something. Not

487
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,119
that Nicole Vucevich would be that exciting, but again I

488
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,599
think like fitting in her system would make like as

489
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,559
a good passing big man, a strong rebounder, just a

490
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,559
guy with size, and they could another guy who can

491
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:09,640
at least I guess, kind of give the ball to

492
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,200
and score not that efficiently, but maybe take a little

493
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,720
pressure off stuff. But so like maybe then, but yeah,

494
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,559
you look at anywhere else and for like I think I

495
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,400
considered the Thunder at some point, but like they got

496
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,599
Isai Hartenstein, so like that's off the table. Yeah, I

497
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,119
don't know who else would want food, So that that

498
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,160
does is a problem when it comes to I thought

499
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:30,799
about the Spur.

500
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: It is like a backup big behind Wemby if the

501
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,599
Bulls would take back Zach Collins or someone. But that's

502
00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:38,799
just a weird. I wouldn't trust Pop to not try

503
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:40,319
and play him with Wemby, and I just have no

504
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,960
desire to see like Weny just needs to be the

505
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:42,599
lone big.

506
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, which is still like a useful player,

507
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,440
but he really should be a backup at this point. Again,

508
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,480
he sput thirty four to thirty five and he can't

509
00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,119
defend worth of lick. His efficiency has never been that

510
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,759
high because he doesn't get to the line, and now

511
00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:54,920
his three point shooting is fallen off. He puts up

512
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,839
the great box score stats, so like kind of masks

513
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,279
the ineffectiveness of him overall, like he should not be

514
00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:03,319
playing thirty to thirty five minutes a game anymore. That's

515
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,759
without questions, like he could help someone as a backup.

516
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:09,440
But again he's making twenty million this year and twenty

517
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,680
million guaranteed next year, so that also does make it tough.

518
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,640
So it's so this question is just like no one

519
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,279
wants really either of these guys. So like I was just,

520
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,640
I'm Zach is clearly the better player and has a

521
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,759
better chance. He's what three or four years younger, has

522
00:23:21,759 --> 00:23:24,920
the better chance of helping a team, but the contract

523
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,720
is twice as big, So it's it's just tough. It's

524
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,559
just tough to find something that matches up right now.

525
00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:33,160
But again, there's a long time between now and the deadline,

526
00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:37,839
and maybe they maybe Zach looks good. Maybe Booch helps

527
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:40,200
his numbers. Josh Gitty's gonna get booed. Maybe some Josh

528
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:43,799
Kitty Booch pick and roll well do some damage on

529
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,000
the Josh Gitty front.

530
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: It like Booch almost feels a little bit important because

531
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,480
you need spacing around Giddy as of right now, like

532
00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:52,880
I just to make the most of him. So do

533
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,799
you think that the Bulls have, like I mean, even

534
00:23:56,839 --> 00:23:58,799
signing Jalen Smith helps, Like it seems like the theory

535
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,039
was we're very much gonna try and taylor this team

536
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,559
to Josh Getty strengths and weaknesses, which you know that's

537
00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:07,680
a choice, but like you think that they have assembled

538
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,920
like enough spacing to put Josh Guiney in his optimal

539
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,480
situation to be all right, let's really see what Josh

540
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:16,039
Guiney looks like when he has the keys of an offense.

541
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: I mean theoretically sure, I mean, especially if you do

542
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:21,279
have SEG and Booch should not be considered a space

543
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:22,799
or anymore. Again, I think the last couple of years

544
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:24,880
he's been sub thirty percent from three and like.

545
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: He takes back to a game two or three game though, So.

546
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he actually takes like four and it's

547
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:35,079
really ugly, maybe three or four either way. I don't

548
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,279
know if at this point like teams considered one that's

549
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:40,200
still like Jalen Smith Jala Smith. I'm also not totally

550
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,880
sure if he can actually shoot, Like if you look

551
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,480
at like his career stats, like it's kind of up

552
00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:46,400
and down. He was obviously I think he was definitely

553
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,680
a tyrese Haliburton merchant last season. He did shoot well though,

554
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,119
and if that is for real, like that should theoretically help.

555
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,680
And you got Kobe and Patrick Williams has been a

556
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,920
good percentage three point shooter. Again, he's sometimes been hesit

557
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,160
the volumes out really there, but percentage wise he's like

558
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,440
always over forty percent. If you got Kobe, Zach Pat

559
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:08,599
if can get back over thirty percent, I guess. And

560
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,599
you have Jalen Smith who showell last year, and like

561
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:12,920
you got Iow off the bench who shot really well

562
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,359
from like I wouldn't consider him like a shooter either,

563
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,839
but he's at least pretty capable. Do they have like

564
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,319
enough shooting I mean probably not like they would. They

565
00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:24,319
don't have like a guy. I guess with Zach coming

566
00:25:24,319 --> 00:25:26,359
back that does help. And Kobe is pretty good too,

567
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,759
but I wish they just had like some guy off

568
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:34,759
the bench, or a couple guys off the bench. Jesus, sure,

569
00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:37,599
why not If Lonzo plays like a minute the year,

570
00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:39,640
I would consider that a win. He I mean, he

571
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,759
says he's gonna do it, but who knows. It's like,

572
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,319
is there really enough? I don't know. I mean, Josh

573
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:44,920
Gitty and me if we don't just like use this

574
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,680
to talk about Josh Kitty in general, Like tailoring a

575
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,200
team around Josh Kitty probably not a great idea, Like

576
00:25:50,319 --> 00:25:52,599
is he gonna put up some stats this year? Absolutely,

577
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,319
Like we saw him run Australia, Like he's gonna he's

578
00:25:55,319 --> 00:25:58,240
gonna put up like seventeen seven and seven or something

579
00:25:58,279 --> 00:26:01,000
like that, and like he'll have some fun triple doubles

580
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000
and make some cool passes and like, oh, it's all great,

581
00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:08,039
but like, is that gonna actually impact winning? Again? I

582
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:09,960
don't care about winning this year, but like long term,

583
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,559
they viewed Josh Gitty as like foundational piece of the rebuild,

584
00:26:13,559 --> 00:26:15,279
like he's gonna be the starting point guard for this

585
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:17,799
rebuld moving forward, Like he still just has so many

586
00:26:17,799 --> 00:26:21,640
flaws that is it worth it to tailor a team

587
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:24,599
around Josh Kitty. I mean, you can't really doesn't get

588
00:26:24,599 --> 00:26:26,720
to the line. We know he can't shoot very well

589
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:28,680
and he's gotten a little better, but he's still no

590
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:29,960
one don't care.

591
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: That's the thing. There's like, and I talk to people

592
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,799
about this all the time. There's a difference between like

593
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,680
floor spacing and your shooting percentage because it's just like

594
00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:39,960
defense don't and we saw it happen in the postseason.

595
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,319
It's he shot well from three for much of last year,

596
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,400
but was like defenses don't care. They don't view him

597
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,720
as a threat. So even if he's like beyond the arc,

598
00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:49,400
like he's not spacing the floor.

599
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: For right, Yeah, and so you're not spacing the floor,

600
00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:54,160
it's not a good defensive player. Doesn't really get to

601
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,039
the paint again, doesn't get to the line like he's

602
00:26:57,319 --> 00:26:59,720
he's he's got like the funky in between game and

603
00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:01,960
it's like floaters and his runners and shit like that,

604
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,720
which great, like you can hit some shots like that,

605
00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:06,279
but like that's not like a sustainable way to like

606
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,119
run a high level offense as like the starting point guard.

607
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,200
So it's just like that's very skeptic about Josh Gitty.

608
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,279
Am I gonna say like he is a finished product, like, oh,

609
00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:17,880
he's like a terrible no, no, no, I mean some

610
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,119
people will say, like he's just a terrible player, and like,

611
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,079
I mean he was pretty terrible in some of those

612
00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:24,559
playoff minutes. I mean, it's definitely not a good sign

613
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,039
when the team gets better around you and then you

614
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,519
just fade and ultimately get benched. A player.

615
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: Says a lot about your ability to adapt.

616
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not a good sign that when you

617
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,480
have Shay and you have Jalen Williams taking a step

618
00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:40,480
forward at check plays last year, that that basically you

619
00:27:40,519 --> 00:27:42,839
need the ball in your hands to be any type

620
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:44,880
of effective. And even with the ball in his hands,

621
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,920
like he's not that good like a couple of years

622
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,880
ago when the Thunder obviously took a step forward a

623
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,720
couple years ago and they're like five hundred, and that's

624
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,279
when like everyone wants to point, oh, Josh Kitty second season,

625
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:56,799
he put up these big stats, but like I'm pretty

626
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:58,559
sure you looked at his impact numbers, like some of

627
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:00,720
the on off stuff, like it wasn't very good and

628
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:02,400
like the team was still mediocre, and that was with

629
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,359
Shay like turning into like Shay of now, uh.

630
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,039
Speaker 1: They were at one point that year like they were

631
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,839
trusting Jay Dubb to run the non Shaye units. More

632
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,720
like you were more likely to see Jay Dub play

633
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:18,359
without both Giddy and uh shit Shay than you were

634
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,200
likely to see Giddy play without Jay Dubb.

635
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,839
Speaker 2: And right, So, like again, I'm not gonna just be

636
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,359
totally I'm not gonna be totally out on him. I

637
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,640
do question like what it seems like they want to

638
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:31,119
or it seems like they really believe in him. And

639
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,599
if you're gonna trade Alex Crusoe is arguably your best

640
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,359
trade hip, you target Josh Gitty at basically like his

641
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,240
lowest value. For what happened, Like that they clearly they

642
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:41,920
wanted him, Like they could have probably shopped CRUs around

643
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,480
for some a better package of draft picks, they wanted

644
00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:47,640
Josh Gitty. So like they clearly believe in Josh, they

645
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,079
can think they can get the most of him. I

646
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,839
can have major questions about that thought process, but I'm

647
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:53,880
not gonna say that Josh Gitty at what is he

648
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,039
twenty two only still a very young player. There's still

649
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,279
probably some room to grow there. He's gonna put up

650
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:05,240
numbers obviously. The other question Marke there is the contract

651
00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:08,519
he is, Yeah, look he's gonna contract year. You gotta

652
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:11,799
pay him soon. I really hope they do not extend

653
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:14,480
him this like now would be.

654
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: They did, though I'm not I'm not even trolling, but

655
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,799
like if I would target him.

656
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:22,039
Speaker 2: I would be surprised. I would. Yeah, I mean I

657
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:25,759
think like because I think like he's not. I think

658
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:28,160
he like why would he sign a contract right now

659
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,640
when he's coming off the year that he did, Like

660
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,759
the Bulls would have to offer him a lot. The

661
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:34,119
Bulls have no even if they targeted him and like him,

662
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,640
there's no reason to offer him a lot right now,

663
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,400
Like you haven't seen him play on your team yet,

664
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,400
like you like if he comes out and it's just

665
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,920
like not that good this year, but you locked him

666
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,759
into this long term contract, Like what are you doing?

667
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,039
Like why would you do that? It's like I just

668
00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:48,960
it's hard to see them, like the sides matching up,

669
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,680
like he's gonna get me an approve it year. Like

670
00:29:51,119 --> 00:29:52,839
so then he figures, oh, they're gonna make me the

671
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,839
starting point guard. I'm gonna put up some big numbers

672
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,640
this year. I'm gonna inflate my my, my value, and

673
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,079
then they'll pay me a big money as a shooted

674
00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:02,640
free in a row, or they signed him before he

675
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,440
hits for shooted preec. That seems like the most likely outcome,

676
00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:09,359
and I hope it is. I do have concerns that

677
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,160
if he does put up just big numbers but on

678
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,880
a shitty team and like that they pay him too

679
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,440
much just because again question marks about his actual impact

680
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,960
on winning down the line. But if he actually has

681
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,519
like an actual good season and the Bulls are better

682
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:25,079
than expected, then maybe he'll have actually deserved a big concience.

683
00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:28,440
But I just hope they don't do that this offseason.

684
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: As you already mentioned, Kobe White, second and most improved player,

685
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:35,400
I actually think he ended up being my pick because

686
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,319
I had Scottie Barnes and Jalen Johnson ahead of him,

687
00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:39,400
and neither of them qualified because of the games played,

688
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,720
so he might I think I think I ended up

689
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,720
picking him. I can't remember, But do you worry at all?

690
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,000
Just based off like, Okay, Zach Levine's coming back and

691
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,200
now we're gonna put the ball in Josh Getty's hands

692
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,160
about the Bulls adversely impacting the strides he made last year.

693
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:53,920
Do you just look at it as he's so good

694
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,680
off the catch, he knows that also just catch and go,

695
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:58,000
not just shoot that it really shouldn't matter.

696
00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: So I don't know about like adverse, like him going

697
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,519
like backwards in a big way. I think he's good

698
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,839
enough now, he's developed his game enough now off the dribble,

699
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,359
he's he's tightened up his handle so much and he's

700
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:11,720
just gotten way more crafty with the ball. We know

701
00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:13,920
we can shoot and he's kind of streaky still, but

702
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:16,960
he I mean, he had a really long stretch last

703
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,759
season where he was just on fire. I think he's

704
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:20,359
kind of petered off by the end of the year

705
00:31:20,359 --> 00:31:22,279
beause he was playing forty minutes a night for like

706
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:24,319
three or four more. Shit, He's just never played that much.

707
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,640
So like theoretically, if he doesn't have quite as much

708
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,960
responsibility and he still gets a lot of minutes, like,

709
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,359
I don't think he'll go backwards, Like will he take

710
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,400
the next step? That could be a question mark with

711
00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:39,960
Giddy playing point with Zach back and they I mean

712
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,079
they still have I had assumo there. We'll see if

713
00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:46,519
Loonzo plays at all. We'll see if Patrick Williams gets

714
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:48,559
more opportunities with the ball. So like I'm there with

715
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,160
that word, yeah, Kobe taking a step back. I am

716
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,440
curious if he can take another step forward or if

717
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,720
like what we saw last season was his peak, which

718
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,119
would be totally fine, because a couple of years ago

719
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,160
I was calling for the trade Kobe White. I thought

720
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,039
he was like nothing is Oh, he's nothing more than

721
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:05,720
like an ok bench guy. The fact the development he

722
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:09,000
made last season I think was crazy considering it was

723
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,039
his fifth season, he had just signed a three year,

724
00:32:11,119 --> 00:32:13,839
like thirty six million dollars deal. Never really thought he'd

725
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,960
amount to much more. And again, the development he showed

726
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,839
in his game with just his again his point guard skills,

727
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,960
his ability to finish her on the basket, just the craftiness,

728
00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:25,480
a lot of stuff that he's developed just kind of

729
00:32:25,839 --> 00:32:28,640
over the last year. What he showed was really impressive

730
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,920
and very surprising to me. So even if he never

731
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,680
gets any better, still a great player on a great

732
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,599
contract for now. Of course, he's gonna be a free

733
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:39,480
agent in a couple of years now, which is can

734
00:32:39,559 --> 00:32:41,359
bring a whole new set of problems because he's gonna

735
00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:45,759
want big money. We'll see how that goes. But I think,

736
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,519
I mean, Kobe will be one of the reasons to

737
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:49,079
watch the team this year. I think he's just a

738
00:32:49,079 --> 00:32:51,440
fun player to watch, especially when he gets going. So

739
00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:55,079
I expect an another good season on him again. Do

740
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,920
I question if he's going to take another step? Yes,

741
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:00,359
but if is it a problem? No, I mean he's

742
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:03,960
still good again, good player value contract. If he doesn't

743
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,960
get any better, he's still really good.

744
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: Another player who I thought was really good last year.

745
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,519
In a personal favorite of mine, iow to Sumu. I've

746
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:13,440
always loved the defense. I thought they were like the

747
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,720
basic offensive stuff was good, but I had questions about him,

748
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:18,000
like mainly as a scorer. And it seems when Kobe

749
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,920
White was dealing with that shoulder injury, they started using

750
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,359
Iyow in like kind of different ways and they were

751
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,480
forcing him to do different stuff, and I kind of

752
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:26,119
liked it, Like when you were looking at his decisions

753
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:27,680
out of the pick and roller just as a score,

754
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,079
How do you feel about sort of him long term

755
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:33,160
or like, what does the next area of development need

756
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,160
to look like for him to become maybe a mainstay

757
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,920
on this team or someone who's even better than he

758
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:38,839
was last season.

759
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So as an Illinois guy love Io. I have

760
00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:44,480
an Iopowls jersey. I of an Io Illinois jersey, so

761
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:47,680
like I'm a big IO guy. But two years ago

762
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,720
when they signed or was it two offseasons ago when

763
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,559
they gave him that contract, I was like, hmmm, I

764
00:33:51,599 --> 00:33:53,160
think it was three years twenty one million. But he

765
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,880
was not good going into that contract. Year he was

766
00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:00,079
the first couple of years he really really solid. I

767
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:01,480
can't even remember what year he is and at this

768
00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:04,319
point in his career, but started his career was really promising.

769
00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: He was in the second round, right, so I think

770
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,239
he created me after two so I think.

771
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: That sounds right. The year four, yeah, so like his

772
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,000
rookie year was like a really nice surprise. And then

773
00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:15,840
year two, like just as that year went on, it

774
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,840
was not good. And I feel like by the end

775
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,920
of that second season he was almost unplayable, which was

776
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,039
very disappointing, and they gave him this three year like

777
00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:29,840
why did they give him three guaranteed years? Like blah

778
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,840
blah blah. And then he came out he was much

779
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,440
better last year. He shot much better, just showed a

780
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,679
lot more offensive juice. Again, do I think he's got

781
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,639
that much more left developed positive on the left. I

782
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:45,679
don't know I would he was a little on the

783
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:48,280
older side coming out of Illinois. Uh so, he's a

784
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,840
little on the older side. Now again, development's not always linear,

785
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,440
so like, could he take it, take his game into

786
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,800
the level. He's a hard worker. Uh So, I don't

787
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,039
want to say absolutely not. Again, do I think he's

788
00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:00,519
like much more than like a really good bench player

789
00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:03,239
who can spots start, Like absolutely can throw him as

790
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,039
a starter and he's capable for you. Probably not, but

791
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:08,760
again seven million dollars contract. And if you're a really

792
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,679
good bench player and you can you can defend, you

793
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:12,440
could hit a three pointer, you could run a little

794
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,199
point guard. That's great. So yeah, I like him. It

795
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,079
was really nice to see him bounce back. He provide

796
00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:20,519
a lot of great moments. He has some games, so

797
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:22,400
I mean, he just totally goes off, like I feel

798
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,960
like that he like for someone who I like, don't

799
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,719
consider like the best shooter, Like he has these I

800
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,800
feel like these random games. He just goes like nine

801
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,119
to ten and he does it like every like every

802
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:32,760
couple of weeks. He just has one of those games

803
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,880
where he cannot miss. Uh A fan favorite from Chicago

804
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,960
and went to University of Illinois, so what I love him.

805
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,440
It will be just going to see where he fits

806
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,559
into this rotation now with Giddy here, with Zach back,

807
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,679
with baby Alonzo back. But yeah, so like it will

808
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,559
be an interesting situation for him, especially I mean with

809
00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:55,440
that contract, Like I don't know if they'll ever look

810
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,199
to move him or if they want to keep him around.

811
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,239
Like as I on that deal, like I said, there

812
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,840
should be teams interested in him. You could probably get

813
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,679
something pretty good. I'm not saying go out to trade

814
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,239
him right now, don't necessarily want to, and no rush

815
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,639
to trade a really solid young player like that. But

816
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:14,599
we'll see, like what kind of opportunities he gets to

817
00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:16,360
the season with some of these other guys on the roster.

818
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,119
Speaker 1: You yeah, you kind of touched on this a little

819
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:21,400
bit already, but throwing it into like the Kobe White

820
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,280
arena as well, is there a chance just because of

821
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:25,800
how short the deals are for de Souonmu and then

822
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,400
Kobe White and then you're gonna have to reconcile with oh,

823
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,480
we have to pay the little bit, specifically White, a

824
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,880
boatload more money in two years after maybe paying Josh

825
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,400
Giddy a boatload of money the year before. Is there

826
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,599
a chance like again to soon? I think would just

827
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:41,280
be available if the right off wars there. But yeah,

828
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,639
theres that we hear some like Kobe White buzz this season,

829
00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:45,360
given the direction in which the Bulls are headed.

830
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, something we have talked about, like, oh, like we

831
00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:51,960
should you like like right now, should they like take

832
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,719
off ors for Kobe White? Like? I think it's I

833
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,599
don't think they're not going to trade Kobe White this obviously.

834
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,400
I feel like the fan base would actually revolt if

835
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,719
they traded Kobe just after.

836
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:01,519
Speaker 1: Especially after what they priority in the Caruso trade. It's like, well,

837
00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:04,280
might we're probably just better off not trading Kobe we exactly?

838
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:05,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't think they have any

839
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,960
interest in trading Kobe for like a bowload of draft picks.

840
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,480
But I think that would probably be what you're looking

841
00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:12,000
to do if you're kind of just starting over. Is

842
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:15,079
getting like I like, I don't even like I We've

843
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:17,000
talked about this on our podcasting. I don't even know

844
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:18,800
like what a good Kobe trade would look like. At

845
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,599
this point, he's making twelve million. I would need a

846
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:25,119
bunch of draft picks two were two or three first, Like,

847
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:26,639
I don't I don't know if anyone's paying that, but

848
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,039
like for a good young player who made the leak

849
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,559
that he did last year, it would need to be

850
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:34,079
a lot, and I just doubt that. Again, it's not

851
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:36,320
gonna happen this off season. But this Yeah, so like

852
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,719
this season, like if he does like stagnate, maybe like

853
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,639
if the seasons just like going really badly because he

854
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:47,840
the question is he's great, I'm the great deal now,

855
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:51,519
but if he gets a contract, that's what similar maybe

856
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:53,280
not quite like he's not. I don't think he's I

857
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:54,800
don't know if he'll ever be like to what Zach's

858
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,679
level is. But uh, with the cap going up, like

859
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,480
his next contract, what is it gonna I mean, is

860
00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:01,280
he gonna make thirty million a year? Is he gonna

861
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,079
make forty million a year? Is it worth paying Kobe

862
00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:07,880
that when I don't know how this team is gonna

863
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,559
look in the next couple of years. I don't know.

864
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:13,719
Obviously they have time to make these decisions. So yeah,

865
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,840
it's tough, like it'd be really it'd be a tough

866
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,079
pall to swallow, like take this much time with Kobe

867
00:38:18,559 --> 00:38:21,000
and then he has this big season and then he

868
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:23,199
just train and right away. But again, their problem here

869
00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:25,480
with this last iteration of the team was waiting too

870
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:28,360
long to make moves, So like you don't want to

871
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,000
wait too long where okay, like now Kobe is kind

872
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,800
of what he is, and then you give him this

873
00:38:33,079 --> 00:38:35,599
massive contract and then it turns into like a bad deal,

874
00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:38,079
and like if your team still isn't any good, obviously,

875
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,960
ideally it'd be great to pay Kobe and then the

876
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,039
team is good and then he's just a really good

877
00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:45,199
player on a good Bulls team. But is that going

878
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,599
to happen with what they have right now and kind

879
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:49,920
of where things are going, I don't know, Like maybe

880
00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:52,519
maybe they'll get lucky and they'll get look in the

881
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:54,199
draft and they get the Cooper flag or something and

882
00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:57,000
everything turns around really quickly and they resigned Kobe and

883
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,880
everything's really fun and great in the next couple of years.

884
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,119
But it is something that should absolutely consider. Everything should

885
00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:05,239
be on the table with where this roster is, Like

886
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,119
nobody should be untouchable, Like that's let's be serious here,

887
00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:10,800
Like with where they've been the last couple of years,

888
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,840
everything should be they should be open to anything, but

889
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:15,920
I'd be pretty surprised if Kobe's traded at anytime in

890
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,440
the next season two years. But with that short contract, again,

891
00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:21,639
you have to think about it.

892
00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: They drafted Madus Buzzellis. Do you have any early impressions

893
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:29,199
of won his game? But two of what type of

894
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,599
role he could have for a Bulls team that might

895
00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:33,119
be rebuilding but might also not.

896
00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:37,039
Speaker 2: I mean summer league Matas showed a ton of fun

897
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:41,280
shit and just thought he tries to dunk everything, which

898
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,679
is awesome and it's really.

899
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: You know who I compared him to before he came

900
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,800
into the league. When we were doing this exercise on

901
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,719
this podcast, do tell me, I said that I think

902
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,960
he has the potential to be a better shooting version

903
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,000
of Pascal Siakam. That's what I see. I know the

904
00:39:55,079 --> 00:39:57,239
jumper percentages aren't there right now.

905
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: They're not when I watch him, and.

906
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: The Cadence said when he which he plays, and like,

907
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,840
I still see it. So I actually liked that pick.

908
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,599
I feel like we've shit on the Bulls this entire podcast.

909
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,360
I really did like the Buzzellis pick.

910
00:40:08,559 --> 00:40:11,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, considering most people thought he was going

911
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,119
top five, top six, I think a lot of people

912
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:14,679
thought he was gonna go to the Pistons that I

913
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,320
think that was five, and they took Ron Holland instead,

914
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,239
and then he just kind of kept falling and falling.

915
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,360
And he is a Chicago area guy. He was at

916
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,519
Hinsdale Central I think for like a year or two

917
00:40:24,599 --> 00:40:28,559
before he moved, and he's Lithuanian. Just like just kind

918
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:31,400
of show this so kind of it was a perfect

919
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,639
perfect fit there for the Bulls to take, an easy

920
00:40:33,639 --> 00:40:36,599
pick to make. But all jokes aside, like, yeah, I

921
00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:38,559
love how he just likes to dunk everything. Love how

922
00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:42,480
he shit talks like. He just real cocky attitude. And

923
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,480
obviously you can say, oh like if you're too cocky,

924
00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:46,239
like you could get put in your place and you

925
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,119
get humbled a bit. But the bulls need I feel

926
00:40:49,119 --> 00:40:51,679
like it just some swag and just some attitude like

927
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,400
that a dog he's got that seems like he's got

928
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,079
that dog in him. He likes to dunk on. Everybody

929
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,360
loves the trash shuck. The jumper is gonna be I

930
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,480
think a big The big swing with him as a

931
00:41:02,519 --> 00:41:04,960
guy is whatever, six whatever. He's six nine, six ten

932
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:08,400
and he loves dunk he's got a decent handle with

933
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,159
that size. But if he can, if he can get

934
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:12,519
the jumper down the start. If you look back at

935
00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:15,320
the summer league shooting percentages very bad. It was like

936
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:16,679
the thirties.

937
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:18,679
Speaker 1: The stats weren't pretty high.

938
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: No, the three that for the Ignite stats were good.

939
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,000
And I know the Ignite stats, I think you might

940
00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:25,239
want to take with some grain of salt there, but

941
00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:28,679
some league stats were also. The percentages were not good.

942
00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:30,440
He put up a lot of numbers. Again, he had

943
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,159
a ton of dunks, but the shooting is gonna is

944
00:41:34,159 --> 00:41:36,440
gonna be a big question mark if that shooting comes around.

945
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:40,840
Given just like his skill set at that size, his aggressiveness,

946
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,639
and if you tighten the handle up a little bit,

947
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,440
I think he could be really really good. He does

948
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:48,519
not not the best passer either, it seems like so

949
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:50,639
like the thing like, I guess I can kind of

950
00:41:50,679 --> 00:41:54,400
see that the jumper is a bit if he uh

951
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,159
but I mean he loves driving. We know he's got

952
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:58,320
the spin move very aggressive.

953
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:00,559
Speaker 1: And he went on, yeah, he's.

954
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 2: Gotten a bit better there. So like it's an interesting comment.

955
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,800
I feel like if people a Carolinko, some people have

956
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:11,199
talked about too, Like obviously Carolinka is great legends, not

957
00:42:11,199 --> 00:42:13,800
not defensively, I don't like. He made some nice defensive

958
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,400
plays in summer League, a lot of blocks, getting his

959
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,039
hands on the ball. I don't know if he can

960
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:23,400
do that, but it was pretty I mean, just pretty

961
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,760
aggressive player. He's obviously got to put on some weight too,

962
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,920
he's so dang skinny. But I mean if he does

963
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,960
get stronger and and with that aggressiveness, that should really

964
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,679
help him on both ends of the court. So I

965
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,519
like what I saw again, you gotta we'll have to

966
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:39,559
see the jumper come around, because I mean, ultimately he

967
00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:43,559
the the whatever, like the bad I want to say

968
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:45,320
bad version of him, but like the lower end is

969
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,559
like he can do all this and he's aggressive and

970
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:49,440
all that, but if he still can't shoot and he's

971
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,079
like putting up junk shots and his efficiencies crap, then

972
00:42:54,119 --> 00:42:57,159
he's not gonna be that good. So hopefully that'll come around.

973
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,760
He's obviously very very young, plenty of time and not

974
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,480
as team that is that they are rebuilding, even though

975
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,159
they don't want to necessarily say it, they are like,

976
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,280
you should have time, and in terms of his role

977
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:07,840
of this season, like I would love to see him

978
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,599
get twenty minutes a game. I don't know if Billy

979
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:13,639
Donovan is gonna play him that not much. We'll see

980
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:15,920
how long Billy dimonds. I'm not a surprise Billy Donovan

981
00:43:16,039 --> 00:43:20,360
still work every day. Yeah, Like I know, like whatever

982
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:22,440
I think his son was like made. I think that

983
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,519
the G league coach or he got some promotion. I

984
00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:27,360
think it was a summer league coach too. This year,

985
00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:30,679
the Bulls probably don't want to fire him and pay

986
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,480
him and then pay somebody else. But I'm honestly, I'm

987
00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:35,039
kind of surprised that he kind of wants to stick

988
00:43:35,039 --> 00:43:42,079
around for a rebuild maybe clear yeah exactly so that

989
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:44,039
there was there the rumors about oh, is he gonna

990
00:43:44,039 --> 00:43:47,000
go back to Kentucky and all that, and I was like, sure,

991
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,960
go ahead, Billy, like we'll bring it. They could bring it, honestly,

992
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,519
Like with the rebuilding, they could bring in like a

993
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:53,039
young up and cover and he'd be and he'd be

994
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:55,159
a cheap option, like it'd be perfect for Jerry. But

995
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,639
he's still here. We'll see how long Billy's still here.

996
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,320
So with that, like, I am curious if he's going

997
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,639
to make modest a big part of the rotation to

998
00:44:04,679 --> 00:44:08,519
start the year. I would guess maybe not, because they

999
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:10,119
still do have some other young guys and I've even

1000
00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:12,519
mentioned like Daleen Terry and Julian Phillips yet as young

1001
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:15,119
players like on the wing who might get some minutes

1002
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:15,679
this season.

1003
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: I wouldn't need to know what they see in Julian

1004
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,119
Phillips that they decided to give up two first round

1005
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:21,760
picks last year to get him.

1006
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,199
Speaker 2: Two seconds they give first that's what they gave him

1007
00:44:26,199 --> 00:44:28,880
for and that you see all that that one for him.

1008
00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:32,679
But I mean Julian Phillips can really jump and he

1009
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,679
can play defense, but that offense is not pretty. The jumper,

1010
00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:39,039
it's looked a little better. But like in Summer League

1011
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,079
when he when I saw him trouble the ball and

1012
00:44:41,159 --> 00:44:43,079
was not pretty much I mean him, I mean, the

1013
00:44:43,159 --> 00:44:48,400
Bulls love there. There's lanky, rangey, athletic wings who just

1014
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,840
cannot shoot the ball at whatever. Daleen and Julian Phillips,

1015
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,039
I mean, Iowa was kind of like that. Again, he's

1016
00:44:54,039 --> 00:44:55,880
gotten a lot better than the shooter. Patrick Williams was

1017
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,800
kind of like that. They just like love these like

1018
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,760
raw project wings and hope that they can develop them

1019
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,679
and hasn't really worked out for the most part with

1020
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,920
some of these guys, so like Dale and Terror, Like,

1021
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,960
how much is he gonna play this year? I don't know,

1022
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,519
Julian Phillips, how much is he gonna play? Modest? How

1023
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:13,000
much is he gonna play? Like I would? I mean,

1024
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,079
I'll play all these guys. I'd rather play those guys

1025
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:17,719
than play like Tory Craig and Javon Carter At this point,

1026
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,920
I don't care about those guys. Those are veterans that

1027
00:45:20,199 --> 00:45:22,199
they can be like vets on the team and park

1028
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,840
their ass on the bench in that play. I want

1029
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,320
to see the young guys play. Does that mean a

1030
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,280
lot of a lot of losses? Probably, Yes, That's totally fine.

1031
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:30,760
I'm good with it. I want to see these young

1032
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,199
guys play and get some development developmental minutes.

1033
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: You mentioned before, because we asked this question every year,

1034
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,199
but I feel like it needs to be reframed reach

1035
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,920
before that Kobe White just might be as good as

1036
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,960
Kobe White is ever gonna get. Are we at that

1037
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,079
point with Patrick Williams or is there? And look, it

1038
00:45:46,079 --> 00:45:49,719
comes down to just like will he broaden his offensive horizons?

1039
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,760
And it's just you You still see flashes of it

1040
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,480
when he's comfortable getting too the mid range. You mentioned

1041
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,840
that three point percentages, are they whatever gonna expand his usage?

1042
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,559
And too is even capable of doing it? Like if

1043
00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:01,079
we're headed into year five to ask the question.

1044
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 2: Right, we've been waiting. We've been waiting for it, and

1045
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,199
I mean we just saw it happen with Kobe White

1046
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,480
year five, he took a huge jump. Maybe we'll get

1047
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,199
that jump out of Patrick Williams. I don't know if

1048
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,320
he has that dog in him like Kobe and like

1049
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,320
Modest seems to have. And I don't know if the

1050
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,079
handle's gonna be good enough. But again, I mean we

1051
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,880
I did not think Kobe was gonna be this good,

1052
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,599
So I'm I don't want to rule it out. I mean,

1053
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:26,320
even going back to lowry market and like the jump

1054
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,239
that he took in basically year six, year seven and

1055
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,239
to become an all star level player, like sometimes it happens,

1056
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,119
so like I think there it could happen for Patrick Williams.

1057
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:38,119
I know a lot of people Bulls fans have been like, oh,

1058
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:41,159
like Tomor's gone, that's what they needed, so that Patrick

1059
00:46:41,199 --> 00:46:43,480
Williams will get the opportunities but of course now Josh

1060
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:46,039
Giddy's there and they have exactly been back, so we'll

1061
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:48,599
see if Pat ever gets those opportunities. I am skeptical.

1062
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:50,920
I think it's very fair to be skeptical that Pat's

1063
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,400
gonna be ever more than I mean, he's had four

1064
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,360
scens now and like his his averages have been almost

1065
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,360
like the same every year. It's basically ten and four,

1066
00:46:57,519 --> 00:46:59,800
ten and five, and that's it. Like, so like, if

1067
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,320
that that's what he is, it's totally fine. The contract

1068
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,679
he got is fine. You can probably argue was that

1069
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,239
last year was a player option? Like that, Hey, maybe

1070
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,119
shouldn't have gotten that.

1071
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I need to understand that because Tyres Maxi

1072
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,280
and the Edwards Tyre's Helbert no player options, but Patrick

1073
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,639
Wiams gets a player option.

1074
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 2: I don't know the bolls love just like giving this

1075
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,920
losing contract negotiations. Like the average annual value on I

1076
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,599
think Pat Steel is totally fair. He's still an effective player. Again,

1077
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,559
he's three and D guy. He's gotten better defensively. He's

1078
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:33,559
a good three point shooter, a little unwilling sometimes, but

1079
00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:37,400
still pretty good. So like, average annual value totally fine,

1080
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:40,400
especially with the cap going up. Yeah, the player option

1081
00:47:40,519 --> 00:47:42,760
thing because then like if he does develop, then he

1082
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,360
can opt out early and then obviously he'll get a

1083
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,519
big contract way down the road. Whatever, do I ever

1084
00:47:47,519 --> 00:47:49,320
think like Pat's gonna turn into a guy where he's

1085
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,599
gonna need a max contract down the road? Probably not.

1086
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,760
I just gotta there's We've seen him for four years

1087
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,320
on there's just been like no real hints or steps

1088
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,800
forward of like at least stats West again. He has

1089
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,800
got better, like with some of the subtle stuff defensively

1090
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,360
and all that kind of things. But it's like, is

1091
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,079
there a room for Patrick Owiams get better? Yes, well

1092
00:48:08,199 --> 00:48:10,480
I think he should get some more opportunities this year.

1093
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:12,920
Is it actually going to happen? I mean, my god,

1094
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,960
just give me fifteen points a game, my man, Like

1095
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:16,719
I feel like me and Ricky have said this on

1096
00:48:17,039 --> 00:48:19,679
cash considerations several years in a round. Now, like Pat,

1097
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,639
just give us twelve to fifteen points a game. Just

1098
00:48:21,679 --> 00:48:23,599
get us there. And at the end of the year

1099
00:48:23,639 --> 00:48:25,719
it comes down and others. Patrick Williams at like ten

1100
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,679
or eleven points a game, so hopefully he can raise

1101
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,719
that a few points again if he turns into a

1102
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,559
guy who can average fifteen to five and like a

1103
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:38,079
couple stocks a game. Great, you'll be worth that contract,

1104
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,599
totally fine. Whatever. If you have to trade him down

1105
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:42,920
the line, that's all good. But I think it will

1106
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,639
have a nice long career. Is it gonna be the

1107
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:47,159
one people were hoping for as the number four pick?

1108
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:48,920
And with like the tools. I mean, he looks like

1109
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,320
a guy who should be like who could have star

1110
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,559
potentially a six seven, six ' eight. He's got his

1111
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:58,440
three trunk thighs and like he's when he does like

1112
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,679
go hard he can. He has sick dunks sometimes like

1113
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,239
st'll have the occasional put back or like drive the

1114
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,320
baskets like buddy, where's this been on my life? And

1115
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,320
then like and then the rest of the game he'll

1116
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,079
take like one shot and totally disappear. So it's been

1117
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:14,719
a it's been a frustrating up and down experience with them. Hope.

1118
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,559
I would love to see him break out again. Do

1119
00:49:16,639 --> 00:49:19,199
I think it's gonna happen. Maybe a little bit, but

1120
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,679
I'd be surprised it's like full blown like Kobe breakout.

1121
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,039
But again, don't want to say one hundred percent will

1122
00:49:25,039 --> 00:49:25,480
not happen.

1123
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: My uh hot I don't know if it's the hot take,

1124
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:31,840
but I think by the end of next season, Patrick

1125
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:33,960
Williams is going to be on the Indiana Pacers. That

1126
00:49:34,039 --> 00:49:36,719
is my that's my spicy take. Not not necessarily this

1127
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,239
coming season, but by the end of twenty five twenty six.

1128
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:43,159
I'll throw that out there, all right, we can revisit it.

1129
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,800
You sound skeptical that Lonzo Ball will play, even though

1130
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,519
he says he will play, even though we know he's

1131
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,480
back to not just five on five but five on

1132
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:52,559
five with contact, which is like an important distinction. Let's

1133
00:49:52,639 --> 00:49:55,199
just say he can, like, well, the team give him

1134
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,039
a chance to play, or they terrified of what might

1135
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:00,320
happen to his knees, or you just inherently the fall

1136
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,239
things he's not playing. I'll believe it when I see it.

1137
00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:04,639
Speaker 2: So I think he'll get on the court this year.

1138
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:08,039
That does not mean he can actually like play effective

1139
00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:12,559
NBA minutes and in a team on a season again

1140
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,039
rebuilding season. I don't really caro wins and losses. I

1141
00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:20,360
would guess Lonzo all theas gets a chance here and there,

1142
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,480
but again, like he comes back, like there's the expectations

1143
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,440
should be so low. He hasn't played in two and

1144
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,760
a half seasons. The surgery he had is like some

1145
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,960
funky like it.

1146
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,119
Speaker 1: Never happened to an NBA, like the Cartlage replacement, whatever

1147
00:50:33,159 --> 00:50:33,360
it was.

1148
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,119
Speaker 2: It is super rare, Like I don't know if it's

1149
00:50:36,119 --> 00:50:39,360
like the first time, but it's very something, very very rare.

1150
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,079
At the very least, there's just no reason to expect

1151
00:50:42,159 --> 00:50:44,639
him to be able to play extended minutes too. I

1152
00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:47,280
mean certainly like not back to backs. So just like

1153
00:50:47,559 --> 00:50:49,679
he there's no way he can play that much to

1154
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,159
like really make an impact. Again, do I think he'll

1155
00:50:53,199 --> 00:50:55,280
get at least, like, will he's step on a court

1156
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,159
in a regular season game this year? I think that

1157
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,760
will happen. I have no expectations. But besides that of

1158
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,239
him like actually being effective that I'll have to believe

1159
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,519
it when I see it. But honestly, stepping on the

1160
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:08,360
court once, I think it's a win, just given what

1161
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,960
he's gone through two and a half seasons. They didn't

1162
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,199
know what the hell was going on for a year

1163
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,679
or two basically, like there were reports about how he

1164
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,320
was like having pain walking up the stairs. Still like

1165
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:22,719
you had no idea what was going on? You had

1166
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,679
do this really rare surgery. So I think even just

1167
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,920
getting back on the court at all, whether it's with

1168
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,000
the Bulls, whether it's this year, whether it's down the

1169
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,880
line sometime, I think that's a win of itself. And

1170
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,159
it seems like the fact that he's able to do

1171
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:40,239
these scrimmages too, like without pain, that's good for just

1172
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,679
like on a personal level, for him, he was such

1173
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:45,800
a fun player to watch. Uh, he was not the

1174
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,679
best point guard in the league before Covid, like he

1175
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,679
liked to claim that. He claimed that he did on

1176
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,840
his podcast the other day. But he was awesome and

1177
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,239
like he was such a key part of the Bulls

1178
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,280
being fun for four or five months, uh, in the

1179
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,880
middle of seven years of gone garbage. But so yeah,

1180
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,000
just like on a personal level, it'd be awesome to

1181
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:06,760
see Lon so just even against up on the court,

1182
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,239
get a huge ovation. It'd be fun to be great,

1183
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,000
be a really nice moment. I will believe it when

1184
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,400
I see it, if he can be a good NBA

1185
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,760
player again, because there's just like no precedent for this,

1186
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,400
like at all. So like it's hard to say, like, oh, yeah,

1187
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,320
he's gonna come back and be great again. There's no

1188
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,760
reason to expect that, but it'd be awesome if that

1189
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:24,280
was the case.

1190
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,760
Speaker 1: While they still have some solid individual defenders on this team,

1191
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,039
what is the pathway to the Bulls actually being good

1192
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,679
on defense? Like I think they've lost now with Caruso gone,

1193
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,079
Like you've lost a cue like you have Ioh, Tory

1194
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:41,280
Craig is fine, you have Patrick Williams of course, but

1195
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,559
like it feels like they've lost like even that super

1196
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:46,760
aggressive flip switch elements. Like they had some core line

1197
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,639
I'll thling it this way. What were they twenty third

1198
00:52:48,679 --> 00:52:50,519
or twenty whatever it was in point slot per possession

1199
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,280
last year? But they had some core lineups that were

1200
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,159
pretty good defensively. I feel like those are gonna be

1201
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,159
much tougher to find this year.

1202
00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:01,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Cruso is just such an important part

1203
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:02,920
of all that. I mean, you look at all the

1204
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,000
advanced numbers, Cruso is basically you can argue he's the

1205
00:53:06,039 --> 00:53:09,239
best being defender in the league. Obviously, Threw Holliday or Jones,

1206
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,159
Marcus Smart, some of those other Derek White, some of

1207
00:53:11,159 --> 00:53:13,639
those other guys are right up there too, But Crusoe's

1208
00:53:13,639 --> 00:53:17,199
impact on their defense just so much crunch time too,

1209
00:53:17,199 --> 00:53:19,000
the Bulls are won the best crunch time teams in

1210
00:53:19,039 --> 00:53:23,360
the NBA last season, absolutely insane. They outplayed their like

1211
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,119
actual talent level and in the clutch by so much,

1212
00:53:26,159 --> 00:53:27,599
and some of that was a lot of that was

1213
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:31,320
because Cruso just blowing shit up defensively. They were also

1214
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:32,880
pretty lucky if you look at some of their opponent

1215
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,159
three point shooting in those crunch time situations. But I mean,

1216
00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:37,880
some of these games that they pulled out is because

1217
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,199
like Crusoe would just mad Man all over the place,

1218
00:53:41,679 --> 00:53:46,760
like swapping him out for Josh Guiney and massive downgrade defensively, Like, yeah,

1219
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,280
Io was pretty good. Patrick Williams is pretty good, but

1220
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,800
he just I mean, maybe Dale and Terry will turn

1221
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,039
into like Lot. He'll take Crusoe's spot and be a

1222
00:53:55,079 --> 00:53:57,400
lockdown defender. Of course he's not gonna be as good

1223
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,840
as Alex Cruis, but it is hard to see how

1224
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,599
they are really a good defensive team when you lost

1225
00:54:04,639 --> 00:54:06,760
your best defensive player and you didn't sound like you

1226
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,119
really replaced him with with with anybody. I mean, Jalen's

1227
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:11,800
the guys they brought him to SHEW. I mean, Modess

1228
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,519
is not gonna be a good defensive player. Jalen Smith

1229
00:54:14,599 --> 00:54:16,559
is not is not that good of a defensive player.

1230
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,159
You lost a ton of rebound against Boch is an

1231
00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:26,519
awful rim protector. There's I don't see anyway. They're a

1232
00:54:26,599 --> 00:54:29,000
defensive team that you're like you asked, like, what's the path?

1233
00:54:29,159 --> 00:54:32,760
I don't see it. I mean, and Zach's coming back,

1234
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,480
and I mean, we know he's not gonna be that

1235
00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:37,079
good of a defender, especially if he's more kind of

1236
00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:39,639
just focusing on getting numbers, I guess, but maybe he'll

1237
00:54:39,639 --> 00:54:41,960
buy in and he'll we'll see like the Olympics, Zach Lylvine,

1238
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,760
and he'll be a good defender. But even then, just

1239
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,639
like they were a bad defensive team with Crusoe playing

1240
00:54:47,639 --> 00:54:49,599
so many minutes and like having a huge impact. You

1241
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:50,880
look at some of the on off stuff and just

1242
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,320
again the impact stats. So then like him not being

1243
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,800
there and they didn't really replace him, Like I just

1244
00:54:57,559 --> 00:55:00,679
see other good defensive at all.

1245
00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the cookie cutter portion of

1246
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:04,039
the podcast?

1247
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

1248
00:55:05,559 --> 00:55:07,679
Speaker 1: Does this team have any because it just feels like

1249
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,039
this has been such a negative podcast. Does this team

1250
00:55:10,119 --> 00:55:13,519
have any hidden strengths or just something that could turn

1251
00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:15,079
into a strength that you think is flying under the

1252
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:16,559
radar that we haven't talked about.

1253
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if strengths right. I think they could

1254
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,199
be kind of fun, like I said, fun bad a

1255
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,280
team that I think with giddy. If they commit to

1256
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,119
playing fast and they just are running up and down

1257
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:30,719
the court. You play fast, Hopefully you shoot more threes,

1258
00:55:31,079 --> 00:55:32,760
Hopefully you get boots out of here because I don't

1259
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,400
want to see them pounding it in the post him anymore.

1260
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,760
And maybe they'll just play a bunch of high scoring games.

1261
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,480
And if they lose a bunch of games like one

1262
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:42,639
hundred and thirty to one hundred and twenty, maybe not

1263
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,840
that high, but like great, sounds great. I'll have a

1264
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,320
fun season where they probably showal to win thirty games.

1265
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,480
But if they, like say, look good doing it and

1266
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,639
they look kind of fun and we see the young

1267
00:55:55,679 --> 00:55:59,599
guys develop, I think that would be great. Again. I

1268
00:55:59,639 --> 00:56:02,280
don't know if that's necessarily strength, but I think I

1269
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,159
would guess that they will want to play fast and

1270
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,920
just fast breaks. Get giddy because you don't want Josh

1271
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:10,880
Giddy running your offense in the half corps all the time.

1272
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,039
But that's just not gonna go. Probably not gonna go

1273
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:13,960
very well for you.

1274
00:56:14,039 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 1: So like, honestly, if he doesn't look for his own

1275
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,239
shot more get all the way of the basket in transition,

1276
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:19,960
you probably don't want him running your offense on the

1277
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,880
break either. Some of his transition numbers are just ghastly.

1278
00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 2: So well, that's I definitely didn't did not know of

1279
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:28,960
that statistic. I just figure, you know what, if they

1280
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,840
get him out run fast, they'll pass the guys will

1281
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,119
be better at finishing and stuff like that. But I mean,

1282
00:56:33,119 --> 00:56:36,960
he definitely does need to finish better in general. So uh,

1283
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,960
this is my hope. Again, maybe it's just totally wrong.

1284
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,519
Speaker 1: And just like turning, I think bad as a really

1285
00:56:41,639 --> 00:56:44,360
like they have they still have a lot of interesting

1286
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,079
players on this roster, like for either or worse or

1287
00:56:48,119 --> 00:56:50,039
worser than worse, Like they still have a lot of

1288
00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:52,840
interesting players. So I think fun bad is a like

1289
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,719
I think you're setting the expectations like correctly, like that's

1290
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,679
not lofty. And if they're not fun, then like do

1291
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:01,280
you get to the coach like what is going what

1292
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:02,880
is going on here? They do have the thing I

1293
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,599
think to at least be bad fun if.

1294
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 2: They're just bad bad, and like Giddy is like not

1295
00:57:07,559 --> 00:57:09,480
any good. I mean, that's when you have to clean

1296
00:57:09,559 --> 00:57:12,000
house like AKA should not and their front office should

1297
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,559
be I mean I would have fired their front office

1298
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:15,960
already because of how long.

1299
00:57:16,679 --> 00:57:19,039
Speaker 1: Unconvinced they're not trying to get fired, just looking at

1300
00:57:19,039 --> 00:57:21,760
what happened with the asset, I guess.

1301
00:57:21,559 --> 00:57:24,039
Speaker 2: Said I as you mentioned, like, we've been very negative

1302
00:57:24,039 --> 00:57:25,960
and it's like, I mean, I don't think they're gonna

1303
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,400
be in AO good this year. They do have some

1304
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:30,119
interesting players and some interesting young players who I think

1305
00:57:30,159 --> 00:57:32,159
can get better. Still, I think they'll be worth watching,

1306
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:34,079
So I don't think they're a team that's just gonna

1307
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:36,360
be like totally miserable to watch, at least again, that

1308
00:57:36,519 --> 00:57:38,840
is my hope. Maybe that's just gonna be totally wrong,

1309
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:40,840
but I think they have enough interesting young guys it'll

1310
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,920
be at least worth watching them, and I think they'll

1311
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,280
have their moments again. Giddy will probably put up stats.

1312
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,360
Kobe's gonna have some fun games IO hopefully we see

1313
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,239
Pat take some type of leap, and maybe zachly Bean will.

1314
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:53,280
I mean, they'll have some big games here, and then

1315
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,719
Zach is still fun to watch when he's got to

1316
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,159
go and so there are always enough reasons to watch for.

1317
00:57:58,199 --> 00:58:00,800
I think it's gonna be at least semi fun.

1318
00:58:02,159 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: So at full strength, I have their starting lineup as Giddy,

1319
00:58:06,719 --> 00:58:09,960
Kobe White, Zach Lavine, Patrick Williams, and Vouch. Do you

1320
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,800
want to agree with that? And then too, like, how

1321
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,039
do you flesh out We'll call it the final five

1322
00:58:14,079 --> 00:58:17,000
spots of the top ten rotation again when everybody's available.

1323
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that starting lineup sounds about right. I

1324
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,559
mean you, I mean maybe they would think about moving

1325
00:58:22,639 --> 00:58:24,159
Kobe to the bench again, but I mean that they

1326
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:27,840
feel like he would he earned a starting spot. They

1327
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,719
clearly are giving Giddy the starting point guard spot. Zach,

1328
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,760
you wanted to rebuild that value, He'll be there, Patrick Williams,

1329
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,519
Sure he'll. I mean he started for the most part

1330
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,119
in his career. And then yeah, Booch will they're not

1331
00:58:40,159 --> 00:58:42,440
gonna bring off the bench for Jalen Smith. So like,

1332
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,280
that starting lineup makes sense, and then you look past that.

1333
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,440
This is where I am very curious to see how

1334
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,440
Billy fills out their nation. Does he play the veterans,

1335
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,880
does he go with Shavon Carter and Tory Craig, or

1336
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,760
does he play Dale and Terry, Julian Phillips, Madus Bizellis,

1337
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,840
Jalen Smith as like their main signing is going to

1338
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:04,559
be a backup five. I mentioned I mentioned Io yet

1339
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:06,880
I mean I Io is gonna probably be their sixth man.

1340
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,320
So then once you get past ioh uh. And again

1341
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,320
there's Lonzo there too. Uh, we'll see about that, but

1342
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,519
I don't think Lonzo really can be penciled in for

1343
00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:20,599
a rotation spot at the very least, So Io definitely,

1344
00:59:20,719 --> 00:59:22,960
Jalen Smith definitely, yeah, And then it's the question mark

1345
00:59:23,079 --> 00:59:24,800
is it? And then I think I would love to

1346
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,519
see modest play. But then is it Tory Craig and

1347
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:30,400
Jovon Carter or is it Dale and Terry or Julian Phillips.

1348
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,000
Maybe Billy chooses one of Dale and Terry and Julian Phillips,

1349
00:59:34,039 --> 00:59:37,199
like in training camp, if one of those guys stands

1350
00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:39,119
out over the other, they get the rotation spot, and

1351
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:41,760
then maybe you just play. Tory Craig is like the

1352
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,119
other wings they like don't really don't have that many

1353
00:59:44,159 --> 00:59:48,719
like bigger wings. Javon Carter really shouldn't probably shouldn't play

1354
00:59:48,719 --> 00:59:50,079
at all. Like if you have I as your backup

1355
00:59:50,119 --> 00:59:52,360
point guard. You have enough guys who can handle the ball,

1356
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,519
or I mean, Javon Carter was so such a disappointment

1357
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:56,800
last year. He was so bad. He was probably a

1358
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:58,719
Giannis merchant a couple of years ago where he had

1359
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,360
the big season where he shot really from three. Last

1360
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,239
year he did not shoot well. He didn't do anything well.

1361
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,960
He was brutal, and they gave him that three year contract.

1362
01:00:06,079 --> 01:00:07,440
I was a fan of that signing. I mean that

1363
01:00:07,519 --> 01:00:10,039
was and he was not good. So like, I don't

1364
01:00:10,039 --> 01:00:13,079
think he should be in the rotation again, I wouldn't

1365
01:00:13,079 --> 01:00:15,480
really play Tory Craig either. I would rather play the

1366
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,239
young guys. But it would not surprise me if Craig

1367
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,079
is part of the rotation at least start the year.

1368
01:00:20,719 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: You can you can go about that's wherever you want.

1369
01:00:23,519 --> 01:00:25,559
But it's crunch time now. If you want to build

1370
01:00:25,559 --> 01:00:27,440
a lineup, that is a sure fireway to lose.

1371
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:28,679
Speaker 2: But like, if they're trying to.

1372
01:00:28,639 --> 01:00:30,119
Speaker 1: Win the game, Like, what do you think ends up

1373
01:00:30,119 --> 01:00:32,159
being their their most used crunch time cup? Is it

1374
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:33,119
just the starting five?

1375
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:36,199
Speaker 2: Honestly, it probably is with maybe you work Io in

1376
01:00:36,239 --> 01:00:39,559
there instead of I mean, Billy loves playing like a

1377
01:00:39,559 --> 01:00:41,880
bunch of small lineups with a lot of guards, Like

1378
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,599
maybe sometimes you pull Patrick Williams for Io, or I

1379
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:50,840
mean pull Giddy like in crunch time when the game

1380
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,719
is slowing down, like I don't necessarily Josh Giddy out there,

1381
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,039
so like I'd probably rather play Io, Kobe, Zach Williams

1382
01:00:59,079 --> 01:01:01,480
and Booch or like I've always want, like I guess

1383
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,719
we could. I know we're like talking about the funky

1384
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,880
lineups too, Like I don't need to do chat there,

1385
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,519
Like if you want to go and maybe play Pat

1386
01:01:10,679 --> 01:01:13,719
and like four guards in some matchups, like maybe you

1387
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,000
do that, but it wouldn't surprise me if their crunch

1388
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,079
time lineup is just the starting five. But again it's

1389
01:01:19,119 --> 01:01:21,840
like Giddy's like playing like shit, like teams aren't gonna

1390
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,960
like respect him as a as a shooter or like

1391
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,480
even like in crunch time the game slowing down in

1392
01:01:26,519 --> 01:01:28,880
a half court situation, like if you're just sagging off

1393
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,000
Giddy and like that's hurting the rest of the guys.

1394
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,559
And like it's like here, Josh Giddy shoot like threes

1395
01:01:33,599 --> 01:01:36,920
in crunch time, like like maybe you have to do

1396
01:01:37,119 --> 01:01:38,559
you maybe have to pull them and iow is more

1397
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:44,079
of a threat. We'll see, so I again, coming back

1398
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:48,039
to it, probably the starting lineup with maybe Io mixed

1399
01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:51,719
in there somewhere, still a situation where, like I know,

1400
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:53,719
like last year, they definitely had a bit more few

1401
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,039
more options. I feel like when they had the Cruso

1402
01:01:56,159 --> 01:01:59,639
around we had tomorrow of course was those those two

1403
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:01,800
guys drove their crunch time success and you had some

1404
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,280
other players you can include too, But that will be

1405
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:06,000
interesting to see. I am very curious because like the

1406
01:02:06,039 --> 01:02:07,760
other guys, I just like, I mean off the bench,

1407
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,480
like Dale and Terry Note and Jalen Smith. Probably not.

1408
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:13,159
I mean maybe some sometimes Jalen's gonna be out there

1409
01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:17,360
over Booch, but I doubt it. Craig Carter modis probably not.

1410
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:18,480
So we'll see.

1411
01:02:19,199 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: Is there a funky lineup you would like to see

1412
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:22,000
them try this year?

1413
01:02:22,039 --> 01:02:23,719
Speaker 2: I feel like I've mentioned I think I've said this

1414
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:25,960
last couple of years, like going with like Patrick Williams

1415
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,920
at the five playing super small, Like if you're gonna play,

1416
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,440
if they want to play fast, play fast and small.

1417
01:02:33,239 --> 01:02:36,320
Maybe you go with the all win like all rangy

1418
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:40,320
wing lineup that can't shoot. Get Dalen Julian Patrick Williams

1419
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,239
Giddy and someone else out there. I don't know, Like

1420
01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:46,239
it's just it's just like a weird mix of players

1421
01:02:46,239 --> 01:02:47,719
that I think, like a lot of lineups that are

1422
01:02:47,719 --> 01:02:50,599
gonna throw out there will probably be super weird anyway.

1423
01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:53,039
Like so like I don't even know, like I don't

1424
01:02:53,079 --> 01:02:54,880
have one them, like really like I always I think

1425
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,519
I always DeVault the pad at the five and just

1426
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:58,960
going like super small because they have so many just

1427
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,559
like smaller players just go like all guard slash wing

1428
01:03:03,199 --> 01:03:05,039
and see how that goes. So I know it's not

1429
01:03:05,239 --> 01:03:07,639
that's not that exciting, but I think they could throw

1430
01:03:07,639 --> 01:03:10,000
out a lot of this kind of really weird goofy

1431
01:03:10,079 --> 01:03:11,920
like or Madus at the five, like.

1432
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,239
Speaker 1: That was mine, what was kind of mine? I want

1433
01:03:14,239 --> 01:03:17,280
to see Modus with Patrick Williams. Give me Kobe White

1434
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,920
into Summu and I'm just trying to manifest that he's

1435
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,360
going to be healthy, Like let's throw a Lonzo in there.

1436
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,360
I don't know what. I don't know what that lineup

1437
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,719
is good at, but like I feel like it would

1438
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:29,239
be fun as hell. So I got the lineup. I

1439
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,320
just want to see and if they're serious about being

1440
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,320
a tank commander, they need to throw it out there

1441
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,039
and say, honestly, it might be too good. They might

1442
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:37,639
not be able to play it because they find out

1443
01:03:37,639 --> 01:03:39,119
that that they're winning those minutes.

1444
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, give me the modus the five. I can't believe

1445
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:43,599
it took me that long to get there. Absolutely, let

1446
01:03:43,599 --> 01:03:47,639
me see it. Why not the Lonzo inclusion? I love it.

1447
01:03:47,719 --> 01:03:50,039
Just this, this is the This should be a year

1448
01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:53,280
for experimentation. Let's get funky with it. We'll see how

1449
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,039
these guys can handle these different lineups and rotations and

1450
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:59,039
situations and see where it goes. And if they if

1451
01:03:59,039 --> 01:04:01,760
they suck, give me the pick, get me Cooper flag,

1452
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,119
or give me one of those other studs. And if

1453
01:04:03,159 --> 01:04:05,960
there's somehow, if somehow, it becomes fun and good. I

1454
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:07,840
can live with that too.

1455
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: Okay, as we record this, and we're recording this on

1456
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,320
August the twenty third, they're over under a set at

1457
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,840
twenty seven and a half. So my two questions to that,

1458
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,000
are you smashing the over the under? And how many

1459
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:22,039
teams are you confident that they'll be better than in

1460
01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:23,440
the Eastern Conference this year?

1461
01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:26,119
Speaker 2: Oh? God, So me and Ricky just did with the

1462
01:04:26,119 --> 01:04:29,840
schedule being released last week, we did our annual annual

1463
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:35,239
go through the UH schedule and pick wins. Obviously it's

1464
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,840
eighty games only because of the two whatever NBA Cup

1465
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,559
games that are not scheduled. I got to twenty five

1466
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:44,960
wins out of eighty. Ricky get nineteen out of eighty.

1467
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:47,880
So like, if they're twenty five out of eighty, you

1468
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:49,719
give them two more, maybe they win one or two.

1469
01:04:49,719 --> 01:04:51,920
Like that's twenty six twenty seven, So that's like right

1470
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,440
at twenty seven and a half. I don't know if

1471
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,559
I could smash either one of them here twenty seven.

1472
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,599
I do think they're gonna end up in like high twenties. Okay,

1473
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,760
So like I could see a pathway to get to

1474
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,079
like thirty wins, but like again I always go back

1475
01:05:08,119 --> 01:05:10,360
to last year. They won thirty nine games while being

1476
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,199
the best or maybe second best clutch team in the league.

1477
01:05:13,239 --> 01:05:16,719
They won twenty seven clutch games last year, and now

1478
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,400
like their two best clutch players, Damar and Caruso's.

1479
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:21,679
Speaker 1: Gonna be haved like that.

1480
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:26,159
Speaker 2: So that I would assume that clutch record, I know,

1481
01:05:26,199 --> 01:05:28,239
because I know that's kind of funky. Year over year.

1482
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:29,880
You can't really rely on that kind of stuff. There's

1483
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:31,679
a lot of small sample size and a lot of

1484
01:05:31,679 --> 01:05:33,920
funky stuff that happens. But I would assume they're gonna

1485
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:35,840
be a bad clutch team. They're gonna be so much younger.

1486
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,519
They have Josh Kady playing point guard. They don't have

1487
01:05:38,559 --> 01:05:41,000
Damar and Cruz, So like I would assume that clutch

1488
01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:44,079
record is gonna flip and be pretty bad, and they're

1489
01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:45,599
just not gonna be as good in general as Damor

1490
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,239
was really really good. So like at least ten more

1491
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,000
losses or ten fewer wins, however you want to put it,

1492
01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:55,400
So like that's get that goes down to twenty nine.

1493
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,360
It's like I do think that's where they gonna end up,

1494
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,880
Like right that twenty seven half number is perfect because

1495
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,280
like twenty seven and fifty five like sounds like a

1496
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,880
good number to me. Could I see them winning a

1497
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,480
few more? Maybe? It's like I don't know, do not

1498
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:11,159
know if I can bet like I usually do bet

1499
01:06:11,239 --> 01:06:12,840
the over runner, Like I bet the over last year

1500
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:14,639
and they I think it was like thirty seven and

1501
01:06:14,679 --> 01:06:17,239
a half and they they barely eked it out there.

1502
01:06:17,239 --> 01:06:19,719
I was very worried about that coming down the stretch.

1503
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:22,079
So I don't know if I can make the bet

1504
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:23,519
that she like, I think they're gonna be right around it,

1505
01:06:23,719 --> 01:06:25,760
Like twenty seven and fifty five makes sense, Like that

1506
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,320
would be just under if they went again ten more

1507
01:06:29,639 --> 01:06:32,239
or ten fewer wins, twenty nine and fifty three like

1508
01:06:32,719 --> 01:06:34,639
also would make some sense. Like I think they're gonna

1509
01:06:34,639 --> 01:06:36,320
be right in that range, right around that twenty seven

1510
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:36,760
and a half.

1511
01:06:38,119 --> 01:06:39,599
Speaker 1: How many teams would you team?

1512
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,719
Speaker 2: Right? Oh god, it's like, I mean the Pistons then,

1513
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:47,480
like the Hornets and the Wizards. Like the Pistons theoretically

1514
01:06:47,519 --> 01:06:51,559
should be better. I mean, they signed Tobias Harris, like

1515
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:54,840
they have all these interesting young players, but MANI Williams

1516
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:57,719
became like the worst coach coach in the league last season. Like,

1517
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,760
I don't know what they're actually doing. I know they

1518
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,800
want to take a step forward, but like I would

1519
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,039
guess the Bulls will still be better than them, and

1520
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:07,840
then like the Wizards know and the Bulls will be

1521
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,920
better than the Wizards. I feel very confident in that.

1522
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:11,440
I'm sure the Wizards, I mean, they have a bunch

1523
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,679
of really you raw young players, so Jordan Poole, I

1524
01:07:14,679 --> 01:07:17,079
would guess they trade Kyle Kuzma at some point, I

1525
01:07:17,079 --> 01:07:18,719
would get I would bet the Bulls are better than them,

1526
01:07:18,719 --> 01:07:19,760
and like the Hornets, like.

1527
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna be a lot better than people expect.

1528
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,199
Like I think, actually the only two teams I'm prepared

1529
01:07:27,199 --> 01:07:28,840
to say I'm guaranteed. I don't know what the Pistons

1530
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,000
will look like under JB. Bickers staff. They have so

1531
01:07:31,079 --> 01:07:32,199
many young guys, But they.

1532
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 2: Say, I totally forgot that they fired Manchu Williams the

1533
01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:37,599
one season that they hired because last year Manti turned

1534
01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:39,159
into like the worst coach in the league, Like, what

1535
01:07:39,199 --> 01:07:39,800
the hell happened?

1536
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: From the well he didn't that whole thing was set up.

1537
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:45,199
We grated it very highly on this podcast by saying, oh,

1538
01:07:45,239 --> 01:07:47,079
you gave up the money to get the guy you wanted,

1539
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:48,840
but like you just kept throwing money at someone who

1540
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,880
didn't want the job until they probably not the best decision.

1541
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,159
But the Nets and Wizards for like the only two

1542
01:07:54,199 --> 01:07:57,719
I'd be prepared to guarantee with like one team from

1543
01:07:57,719 --> 01:08:01,960
the Hornets, Raptors or Pistons sort of group, Like, Okay,

1544
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,119
they'll probably be better than one of those teams.

1545
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like yeah, and that's yeah, good point in

1546
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,280
the Nets trading. MIKEL Bridges of course, like Nets are

1547
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:11,519
gonna be awful now they have incentive to be awful again,

1548
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,920
so that's probably gonna be awful. And yeah, the Wizards,

1549
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,560
I think the Nets, Yeah, those two are that's absolutely true.

1550
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,680
The Pistons, I think they'll probably end up being bad

1551
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:24,079
because they're the Pistons. Like even Kide is good, but

1552
01:08:24,199 --> 01:08:27,239
like I see that good ye I like? But again

1553
01:08:27,279 --> 01:08:28,880
like just the fit there, I don't know. They have

1554
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:30,520
all these interesting young guys. I just like don't know

1555
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,680
if it actually works. Maybe JB will and still an

1556
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,279
actual culture there and they'll actually play to their talent

1557
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:38,439
level a little better. Will it be enough to get

1558
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,520
to like in the high twenties like where I think

1559
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,239
the Bulls will be. I don't know. And again you

1560
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:46,880
got Tobias veteran Tobias Harris. He'll come back and they'll

1561
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,840
level the ship there as the veteran team. I don't know,

1562
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,399
but Bulls being like eleventh or twelfth in the East

1563
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,239
does sound right, right. I do think the Raptors should

1564
01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:58,680
be better. I think the Hawks should probably be better.

1565
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,359
Uh just they still Trey young there obviously, and like

1566
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:03,439
they still have some other decent players.

1567
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,239
Speaker 1: They also have speaking of no reasons to tank their

1568
01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:08,079
next three picture right, So.

1569
01:09:08,159 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like yeah, yeah, what is that eleventh twelfth

1570
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:16,079
the Hornets? If LaMelo actually says healthy, which again you

1571
01:09:16,119 --> 01:09:19,079
cannot rely on he's heard every year, like they're probably

1572
01:09:19,239 --> 01:09:21,079
knocking on the door of playing, which is basically what

1573
01:09:21,119 --> 01:09:24,399
they were when Lameolo Momello was mostly healthy. They still

1574
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:26,760
do have a Miles.

1575
01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: Bridges, right, Brandon Miller was really good.

1576
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 2: Brandon Miller did good. Better sign on.

1577
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:34,159
Speaker 1: The Cody Martin hill Mark Williams might be healthy this year.

1578
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:36,560
They feel like they'll be in the thirties if they

1579
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:37,720
stay relatively.

1580
01:09:37,359 --> 01:09:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, if Lamello plays most of the year, they should.

1581
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:41,680
I could see them getting to the thirties, even if

1582
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,239
it's not like high thirties. So yeah, that sounds eleventh

1583
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:48,560
or twelveth sounds about right in the east. If if

1584
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,960
the Bulls be brutal, like the Bulls got they won

1585
01:09:52,079 --> 01:09:54,279
like twenty seven, twenty eight games, but that was still

1586
01:09:54,319 --> 01:09:56,239
like somehow good enough to get ten and then they

1587
01:09:56,279 --> 01:09:57,399
like snuck into the well.

1588
01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 1: When you look at the landscape of the ash really quickly,

1589
01:10:00,199 --> 01:10:02,960
someone's gonna make the play in by accident, right, because

1590
01:10:03,119 --> 01:10:06,239
there's not that many teams like the Pistons, the Wizards,

1591
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,920
the Hornets, the Bulls, even the Raptors on top of

1592
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:11,439
the Wizards. And then I think might have said that,

1593
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:13,840
but like all those teams are playing the longer games,

1594
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,359
like somebody's gonna end up being in the play in

1595
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:18,359
that isn't necessarily invested.

1596
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,199
Speaker 2: The worst case scenario is the Bulls are not good,

1597
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:24,439
like and they win again like they win like high twenties,

1598
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:26,560
but that somehow is enough to get the ten and

1599
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:30,279
then they make it through the plan, they lose the pick, well,

1600
01:10:30,279 --> 01:10:32,520
they're still not any good and then they get smashed

1601
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:34,399
in the first round and that would just be the

1602
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:35,439
absolute worst.

1603
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 1: Well, so it took thirty six wins to get ten

1604
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:40,720
last year. I don't see the Bulls getting thirty six.

1605
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,079
Speaker 2: I do not, But we'll Seeah, we'll see how it

1606
01:10:44,119 --> 01:10:45,880
shakes out with some of these teams. It was there

1607
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:47,880
were there were a lot of bad teams, like really

1608
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,079
bad teams last year. I don't know if that's gonna

1609
01:10:51,079 --> 01:10:52,960
be the case akin this year, but I mean, you know,

1610
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,239
and these are conference I feel like, you know, it's

1611
01:10:55,279 --> 01:10:56,359
some of these teams.

1612
01:10:57,319 --> 01:10:59,239
Speaker 1: Uh, this was great as always, but are there any

1613
01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:02,000
one or anything about this team. I didn't ask you

1614
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:04,279
about that. You think we need to discuss I.

1615
01:11:04,279 --> 01:11:08,159
Speaker 2: Don't think so. I think we touched about just about

1616
01:11:08,199 --> 01:11:10,319
everything up and down the roshaw. So I was gonna

1617
01:11:10,319 --> 01:11:11,920
go look at the roster and see if I missed

1618
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,600
any interesting players, and I don't think I did. We'll

1619
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:17,720
see if do you very quickly?

1620
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,279
Speaker 1: Do you think, cause you mentioned this before, that Billy

1621
01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:23,000
Donovan is less likely to finish the season in Chicago

1622
01:11:23,039 --> 01:11:25,279
than either Booch or Levine.

1623
01:11:28,159 --> 01:11:28,199
Speaker 2: U.

1624
01:11:29,039 --> 01:11:30,560
Speaker 1: I just don't know personally, I don't know what you

1625
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:32,199
would gain by making that move in the middle of

1626
01:11:32,239 --> 01:11:32,640
the season.

1627
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I could see him coaching out the year

1628
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:37,520
and then just parting ways like mutually. I don't. I

1629
01:11:38,039 --> 01:11:40,920
think they have to be like going really bad and

1630
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,159
like things are just looking really ugly. I think to

1631
01:11:43,159 --> 01:11:45,199
fire him, And I don't necessarily think that's gonna be

1632
01:11:45,239 --> 01:11:46,640
the case. So they're gonna lose a lot, I would

1633
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,000
guess so, But like it's gonna be a case. Why're

1634
01:11:49,039 --> 01:11:55,560
like embarrassingly like Jim Boyling level bad, I would guess not. So, Yeah,

1635
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:57,800
I don't really I don't really have anything else. I'm

1636
01:11:58,199 --> 01:12:00,920
I did mention his name once Christ, like is he

1637
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,079
gonna is he gonna getting the rotation at all? Like

1638
01:12:03,079 --> 01:12:05,319
there's another guard for you, Like they got him in

1639
01:12:05,359 --> 01:12:08,039
the in this Demarch trade. I'm wondering if he's gonna

1640
01:12:08,039 --> 01:12:10,840
get any minutes. Probably not. He's not any good he

1641
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,800
he what he came into the year as or into

1642
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:14,640
the league as like a what twenty five year old

1643
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,600
Brookie or something like that. So like he had like

1644
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,840
one kind of okay season and he's just regressed.

1645
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:21,399
Speaker 1: And I would guess yea if he couldn't get on

1646
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:23,640
the floor with his buddy Domos last year and sap,

1647
01:12:24,199 --> 01:12:25,000
I don't see it happened.

1648
01:12:25,079 --> 01:12:28,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe maybe I haven't mentioned I don't I

1649
01:12:28,399 --> 01:12:30,119
forgot how to say his name. I don't rep the

1650
01:12:30,199 --> 01:12:32,439
team bit him. I always feel how to say his name.

1651
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,319
Showed some interesting, kind of interesting things at the end

1652
01:12:35,319 --> 01:12:38,239
of last season. He's I think he's Turkish or something

1653
01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:43,960
like that, kind of uh can shoot condunk a bit.

1654
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,319
Showed some interesting things. Maybe he'll get again. I will.

1655
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:49,960
I'm totally fine if they Billy just plays a super

1656
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:52,920
deep rotation, try out all these guys experiment. That's just

1657
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,840
kind of what I want to see and lose enough

1658
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,800
games to keep that pick and capture the flag. Baby,

1659
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,960
that's the that is my my I'm trying to get.

1660
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: Into Cooper for Cooper going, and no one likes it,

1661
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:04,239
I'm gonna push it.

1662
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 2: I like that too. Uh, capture the flag, there's I

1663
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:08,880
think there's a good names.

1664
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: I mean, capture the flags is objectively more clever.

1665
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it makes perfect sense. So we'll see, and

1666
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:16,960
there will be plenty of teams going. There probably will

1667
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:18,439
be a lot of tanking teams the second half the

1668
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:19,960
year to get Cooper. But there's I mean, there's other

1669
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:23,520
good players in this draft too. So again, if the

1670
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:27,119
Bulls are bad but are fun and they show some

1671
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:28,720
development and they keep that pick and they get a

1672
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:30,960
high draftick to add to this core, they'll make things

1673
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,880
so much more interesting moving forward. Uh where they go

1674
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:36,279
from there, who the hell knows, Like if they want

1675
01:13:36,279 --> 01:13:38,880
to be good again anytime soon, but it'll be an

1676
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,880
interesting season, honest again, Like, even if they're not good,

1677
01:13:43,159 --> 01:13:45,640
that's just if they would have run it back again

1678
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,760
like I was. Some people were worried that they were

1679
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:49,520
gonna run it back one more time, they were gonna

1680
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:51,399
re sign tomorrow, and like it was just all, well,

1681
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:53,920
trade Zach labein, well, but we're gonna bring Tamar back,

1682
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:55,920
and we're we'll bring Cruisie back, and we're just gonna run

1683
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:58,039
this thing back again. It would just been like, I

1684
01:13:58,079 --> 01:14:00,720
can't watch this again. So at least it's somewhat fresh.

1685
01:14:01,399 --> 01:14:04,159
Is it gonna be good at anytime soon in the

1686
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:07,880
next few years? I have no idea, But I mean

1687
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:09,920
I've been used to a lot of bad basketball and

1688
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:13,720
I know for a long time now, so what's a

1689
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:15,560
little more. At least it's something new.

1690
01:14:16,079 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 1: Bill, you heard it here first that we're on owner

1691
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,800
op but team Watch, that's the mill we'll be looking for.

1692
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:23,239
Speaker 2: Jay.

1693
01:14:23,319 --> 01:14:25,560
Speaker 1: This was great as usual. You're just able to tell

1694
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,199
our listeners and watchers where they can find you and

1695
01:14:28,279 --> 01:14:30,000
all the great content that you put.

1696
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:34,199
Speaker 2: Out of course cash considerations. As I mentioned podcast, my

1697
01:14:34,239 --> 01:14:37,720
guy Rookie O'Donnell uh basically do a pod every week.

1698
01:14:38,079 --> 01:14:39,920
I know, like now are the dog days of summer.

1699
01:14:40,039 --> 01:14:41,920
It's always tough to come up with stuff to talk about.

1700
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:43,960
It was very glad that I was coming on your

1701
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,079
podcast today. Was basically took taking the place of me

1702
01:14:47,079 --> 01:14:48,880
and Rookie having to come up with some bulleshit to

1703
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,279
talk about. We might just turn into a Bears pod

1704
01:14:51,319 --> 01:14:53,279
for the next like month or a couple of months,

1705
01:14:53,319 --> 01:14:55,479
because the Bears seem kind of interesting. They're on hard knocks,

1706
01:14:55,560 --> 01:15:01,520
let's talk about them. But Cash Considerations Day, Schaiboles podcast, that, that,

1707
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:03,279
and then clutch Points dot Com. I work out. I

1708
01:15:03,279 --> 01:15:05,760
don't really do much content there myself anymore in part

1709
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,760
of more of the administration, but go read clutch Points

1710
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,960
dot Com too. We cover the league and again obviously

1711
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:14,079
with the NBA. Uh, it's all it's like silly season

1712
01:15:14,119 --> 01:15:16,119
now with just dumb viral stuff.

1713
01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:20,199
Speaker 1: But what is player X saying on player wise podcast?

1714
01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 2: Exactly right? God, there's so many I mean, as someone

1715
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,319
who has as you have a podcast, I have a podcast,

1716
01:15:25,399 --> 01:15:27,520
there are way too many damn podcasts, and all these

1717
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,159
X players saying just the most asinine things on these

1718
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:34,359
pod It's like you always kind of the Gilbert Reenas

1719
01:15:34,399 --> 01:15:39,640
pod to have something stupid to say with him, Rashard

1720
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:43,520
and mccantz always gonna give you something stupid. Uh. Rashid

1721
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,319
Wallace is saying something goofy like recently to like all

1722
01:15:46,359 --> 01:15:51,039
these guys just and their takes. It's crazy, but long

1723
01:15:51,079 --> 01:15:53,319
way of saying, go to clutch points dot com and

1724
01:15:53,319 --> 01:15:56,399
follow the clutch points dot com as well. So yeah,

1725
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:57,399
that's basically about it.

1726
01:15:58,119 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Jason, and I'm sure you

1727
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:01,760
know right now I will be pestering you again down

1728
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:03,000
my line, so I'll speak of you soon

1729
01:16:08,279 --> 01:16:08,600
Speaker 2: Mhm