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Speaker 4: Oh God, Loness, I don't ask my scap Frost, you
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Speaker 5: Size, What is up? Welcome to No Way, Jose. This
Speaker 5: is Jose Gallisan. Today I am joined by Lena Ajite.
Speaker 5: She is a parapolitical researcher. She's in a lot of
Speaker 5: stuff on the Long Island serial killer stuff, and we'll
Speaker 5: get into that in a little bit before we get
Speaker 5: going for the day. I do want to let you
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Speaker 5: and get our guests in here. What is up, Lena.
Speaker 5: It is a pleasure talking to you.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 5: It is pretty serendipitous how we met, because I actually
Speaker 5: had watched a show with you like forever ago, and
Speaker 5: I was really impressed with some of the like research
Speaker 5: that dropped and I wanted to follow that thread later
Speaker 5: at some point, and then I just happened to follow
Speaker 5: and found your account on Twitter and we was like,
Speaker 5: thought they were great threads, and then like found you
Speaker 5: that way. Then I like organically DMD you and I
Speaker 5: was like, I'd love Devulina's show. This is not knowing
Speaker 5: who you were at all, just based off threads on Twitter,
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh shit, that's weird how the
Speaker 5: world works like that. So it's a pleasure having you here.
Speaker 5: It's kind of weird how it worked out.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me the one time. The algorithm seems
Speaker 1: to have worked in my favor.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well you want to let it let my audience
Speaker 5: know who you are, what you're about. I found you
Speaker 5: through I believe was William Ramsey's channel with the Long
Speaker 5: Island serial Killer stuff. But it seems to be you
Speaker 5: have a pretty wide breath of interest, and I don't
Speaker 5: know if you've really dug into other stuff or if
Speaker 5: you've made your bones and other things, are just doing
Speaker 5: this for funzies. I know really nothing about you aside
Speaker 5: from you've done some research there and I really have
Speaker 5: dugged your threads on Twitter. So if there's things I'm
Speaker 5: leaving out, then that just you feel free to inform
Speaker 5: me in my audience.
Speaker 1: Well that pretty much covers it. Yeah, for those who
Speaker 1: haven't seen. I do work with John Ray. He is
Speaker 1: the attorney for the families some of the families in
Speaker 1: the Long Island serial killer case. I ended up working
Speaker 1: up as his legal assistant. Before that, I was doing
Speaker 1: research for him, and I continue to do research for
Speaker 1: him as well. But yeah, outside of that, I research
Speaker 1: a lot of things in the parapolitical realm, you know, specifically,
Speaker 1: I've been sort of interested and had a file networks
Speaker 1: and how those networks seemingly tie in to political power,
Speaker 1: blackmail operations, and sometimes serial killing.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so are you just doing this for funzies
Speaker 5: or that's all this? I didn't you're not even really
Speaker 5: putting out content per se or anything like that, or
Speaker 5: do you have a substack or I.
Speaker 1: Want to make a substack just because I feel like
Speaker 1: my Twitter threads are really annoying and it's too much
Speaker 1: information to put into a thread. You know, they're really long.
Speaker 1: I know that, so I want to do that, but
Speaker 1: for now it is. It has been kind of just
Speaker 1: for funsies, and I guess it's creepy for me to
Speaker 1: just have this all like on my wall and in
Speaker 1: my notes and to not put it somewhere, And especially
Speaker 1: with this west Point thing that I posted, I feel
Speaker 1: like people would be pretty interested in what I found.
Speaker 5: So yeah, well we'll dig into that a second. I
Speaker 5: am kind of curious, was that an original thread you
Speaker 5: found yourself, because I've read a Program to Kill, I've
Speaker 5: read I The Chicken Hawk, and these are like both
Speaker 5: both of these were like threads that were sort of
Speaker 5: touched on that I recall. I don't remember if they
Speaker 5: really dug into these or if these were fresh stuff,
Speaker 5: I don't recall, like I recall like some of this
Speaker 5: stuff being stuff that obviously the presidity, not the presidio,
Speaker 5: but the the what the the daycare case, Like I
Speaker 5: recall that I recall like it's like I recall some
Speaker 5: of the individuals like that were in the eye the
Speaker 5: Chicken Hawks and in their little graph. But I just
Speaker 5: I don't know if this is like a specific thread
Speaker 5: you've been following and you fleshed out more on your own,
Speaker 5: what what put you down this path specifically?
Speaker 7: Was it?
Speaker 5: Were you on it before the Chickenhawk came out?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 5: What's going on there? Are you? Simon Dove?
Speaker 1: I wish? I wish.
Speaker 5: By the way, for those who aren't deep air political nerds,
Speaker 5: that's a pseudonym. No one knows who that the fuck
Speaker 5: it is. That's who wrote I think his.
Speaker 1: I think his twitter is the Hot Star or something
Speaker 1: like that. I should pull it up, but I think
Speaker 1: I found his twitter, which is also really good. But
Speaker 1: it's definitely a real guy. I thought it might be
Speaker 1: like a Gnome de Garrett first, but I think it's
Speaker 1: a real guy named Simon W. But I could be wrong.
Speaker 5: In the book. But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, possibly, possibly, But it is like
Speaker 1: a real guy who is on Twitter who wrote it,
Speaker 1: and he has a fab Twitter I'll link you after this.
Speaker 1: I thought it was.
Speaker 5: I didn't realize that actually had a Twitter account, So no,
Speaker 5: he doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's really good, lots of good research that he puts
Speaker 1: out there, but it's not under Simon w it's I
Speaker 1: think it's the hot Star. And he has a blog too,
Speaker 1: which is really good. And you know, some of the
Speaker 1: stuff I ended up finding actually connects with a lot
Speaker 1: of his research and other people's research too, who have
Speaker 1: been specifically looking into like the Oakland County child killer.
Speaker 1: But the way I sort of came out upon this
Speaker 1: West Point thing, and you know, it had like percolated
Speaker 1: in my mind for a while since I'd read Program
Speaker 1: to Kill. I always wanted to know more about it.
Speaker 1: I knew the basics that Rudy Giuliani sort of steered
Speaker 1: the grand jury, there were no indictments. There seemed to
Speaker 1: be like real like substance to the allegations of a
Speaker 1: from the children. So I was always curious about it.
Speaker 1: But I actually didn't stumble upon any of this information
Speaker 1: looking into West Point Child Development Center specifically, I was
Speaker 1: actually doing research on NAMBLA, and you know, I was
Speaker 1: just going through all of these old newspaper clippings and
Speaker 1: trying to dig up stuff on NAMBLA. And that's how
Speaker 1: I came upon Mark Raymond, who, as far as I know,
Speaker 1: is the only person who's really been mentioned as a
Speaker 1: person of interest and actual like participant in the child
Speaker 1: development scandal.
Speaker 5: Okay, well, I do want to I do want to
Speaker 5: really start digging to that at some point. But I
Speaker 5: am just how you even got to this pot in
Speaker 5: the first place, because we're in a very niche dark world.
Speaker 5: I mean, we mentioned Program to Kill e the Chicken Hawk.
Speaker 5: These are like, uh, these are like teared like stuff like, uh,
Speaker 5: I don't know if you've been paying it, if you
Speaker 5: pay attention to, like say like Candice Owen, she's been
Speaker 5: raving about like Chaos by Tom O'Neil for a while, Yeah,
Speaker 5: which is a great book. But this is like surface
Speaker 5: level parapolitical stuff. Yeah, you're like, oh, you read Chaos,
Speaker 5: that's cute. Whereas we're at either Chicken Hawk, a Program
Speaker 5: to Kill like these type of dark, dark books. So
Speaker 5: where did like I started from theory world. I was
Speaker 5: like a bit of a par of like or a
Speaker 5: political theory nerd, like a libertarian and cap world whatever,
Speaker 5: Like what got you to this dark corner of I
Speaker 5: guess what we call parapolitics to where we are here
Speaker 5: this this is clearly your specific interest, Like if you're
Speaker 5: I'm not sure how much you know about me. My
Speaker 5: thing has kind of been like the Oklahoma City bombing.
Speaker 5: That's kind of where like become my niche. Although I am,
Speaker 5: I am also like that I find there weirdly to
Speaker 5: be connections between these started dark things. There always is
Speaker 5: when you dig a few layers deep, it's always the
Speaker 5: elites trying to fuck your kids. But uh, just kind
Speaker 5: of curious how you've gotten here because this is like
Speaker 5: a it's almost like the parody that position that they
Speaker 5: say us conspiracy people have, but it's like yeah, but
Speaker 5: we can like legit break it down for you how
Speaker 5: it's like happening, Like I don't know if this was
Speaker 5: like on the show or if this was before we started.
Speaker 5: I was mentioning the dew Trow case that I've been
Speaker 5: covering on my morning streams. It's like I can list
Speaker 5: off the over twenty suspicious desk connected to it. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean we're at a spot where it's like we're
Speaker 5: not really being crazy, like this is stuff that's happening.
Speaker 5: How did you get to this dark corner of research?
Speaker 1: I've always been interested in these types of events. But
Speaker 1: to be honest, it's funny that you mentioned Chaos and
Speaker 1: Program to Kill specifically because my husband actually introduced me
Speaker 1: to those books probably I don't know, like four or
Speaker 1: five years ago, so I'm kind of like new to it,
Speaker 1: to be honest. You know, some people have been reading
Speaker 1: this stuff, like McGowan's work specifically from when it first
Speaker 1: came out, but after that it I don't know, especially
Speaker 1: after reading Program to Kill. It really changed my life
Speaker 1: and I couldn't go back. Like once I had read
Speaker 1: that and I started looking into all of those things.
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop, and I couldn't look away like once.
Speaker 1: It's such a powerful thesis. I feel like in Program
Speaker 1: to Kill, and you know, I've always wondered, like why,
Speaker 1: specifically the phenomena of serial killing and the United States.
Speaker 1: It always just struck me as a very bizarre phenomena,
Speaker 1: And after reading his book, I just I couldn't stop,
Speaker 1: you know, so it started me down this dark path.
Speaker 5: So you just went right straight off the deep end.
Speaker 5: You didn't even like warm up with any other like
Speaker 5: because it is it's like usually I feel like it
Speaker 5: goes like I remember if I was gonna obviously start
Speaker 5: off in theory world, but then I read Terror Factory
Speaker 5: by Trevor Aarnson, and then you get to like that's
Speaker 5: like very serp. Then you get to chaos, and then
Speaker 5: you get aberration in the heartland of the reel by
Speaker 5: like wit painting with the local city, and then you
Speaker 5: start getting to like McGowan and then you're like, oh shit,
Speaker 5: like I'm seeing what's really going on beyond the veil,
Speaker 5: and I'm a little bit scared, and it's kind of
Speaker 5: kind of where we're petering at, which, yeah, I guess
Speaker 5: let's let's get back into what we were talking about,
Speaker 5: the the what you were wanting to talk about today.
Speaker 5: The Mark this Mark Raymond character, who's I believe his
Speaker 5: brother was essentially the main dude of Namblah. So I mean,
Speaker 5: I guess it's we can start wherever you want. I
Speaker 5: have a actually I'll bring up right now for the audience.
Speaker 5: I'll go ahead and bring up the the what did
Speaker 5: we decide these are called?
Speaker 7: Was it?
Speaker 5: Let me see the network continuity map. Key, This is
Speaker 5: a little schizo map that we have so we can
Speaker 5: follow all these things. So we see right here we
Speaker 5: have eighty four West Point Child Development Center scandal and
Speaker 5: then Mark Raymond and Steve Raymond. So I mean we
Speaker 5: can follow along there to make it easier for all
Speaker 5: of us than the the eighties child the tie child
Speaker 5: brothel callboy operation down here. So obviously this branched off
Speaker 5: different ways, so we can kind of go wherever you want.
Speaker 5: And uh yeah, I'll let you take the lead.
Speaker 1: Great. So I'm not going to repeat my thread word
Speaker 1: for word. I feel like if people want to read that,
Speaker 1: they can go that. I don't want to be redundant.
Speaker 1: But just a little background, you know. I'm just fishing
Speaker 1: around trying to learn a little bit about NAMBLA because
Speaker 1: it's sure seems like they're behind a lot of like
Speaker 1: child murders and child abductions, especially here on the East Coast.
Speaker 1: And I stumbled across a newspaper article connecting a guy
Speaker 1: named Mark Raymond with not only NAMBLA via materials that
Speaker 1: he's actually receiving to his West Point address, but his
Speaker 1: brother who's a steering committee member there, but also to
Speaker 1: the West Point Child Development Center scandal that had always
Speaker 1: piqued my interest, and not much information is really available
Speaker 1: about and Mark Raymond. In I believe, nineteen eighty five
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, he's formally accused of molesting one of
Speaker 1: his or two rather of his coworker's children at a
Speaker 1: retirement party, I believe, and it's investigated in nineteen eighty six,
Speaker 1: nothing seems to come of it because he moves on
Speaker 1: I believe, to Santa Cruz and then he ends up
Speaker 1: honorably discharged after receiving some like commendations and medals. So
Speaker 1: even though he was receiving CP to his West Point address,
Speaker 1: there seemed to be credible allegations of abuse against him
Speaker 1: from two children and the parents of the children. You know,
Speaker 1: nothing happened to him and he continued to have a
Speaker 1: good military career and a good journalism career as well.
Speaker 1: So a little background on the Raymond family. So Mark
Speaker 1: Raymond is the guy who's associated with the child development scandal.
Speaker 1: His brother is Steve Raymond, and Mark kind of throws
Speaker 1: his brother under the bus when he's accused of, you know,
Speaker 1: touching these kids inappropriately, and you know, like the allegations
Speaker 1: of the material that he's receiving to his West Point
Speaker 1: address come up. He throws his brother under the bus
Speaker 1: and he says, Oh, that's just my brother who is
Speaker 1: deeply involved with NAMBLA, and I just so happened to
Speaker 1: fit like what everybody thinks a pedophile is like, AKA,
Speaker 1: love spending time with kids that I have no relation to.
Speaker 1: I participate in youth organizations, and I'm not married and
Speaker 1: I don't have any kids of my own. So kind
Speaker 1: of a suspicious thing to say, I think. You know,
Speaker 1: usually you don't have to defend yourself against abuse allegations
Speaker 1: in that way. But a little background on the Raymond family,
Speaker 1: I suppose is in order I covered this in my thread,
Speaker 1: But the Raymond brothers were born in Modesto County, which
Speaker 1: is north of San Francisco. Their father was a reverend
Speaker 1: at the first United Methodist Church. They lived in Ukaiah
Speaker 1: for a while. A lot of people might know of
Speaker 1: Yukaia because the People's Temple was located there. Mark Raymond
Speaker 1: actually interviewed Jim Jones and a lot of people associated
Speaker 1: with the People's Temple while he was a journalist for
Speaker 1: the Ukaia Daily Journal, which is pretty crazy. I was
Speaker 1: very surprised to find that. I was like, I just
Speaker 1: want to see what this guy's journalism career is like
Speaker 1: and write a base.
Speaker 5: On Harvey Milk as well, which for those who want
Speaker 5: to where Harvey Milk was super clicked up with Jim
Speaker 5: Jones two.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah for sure and his brother Steve I believe
Speaker 1: probably knew Harvey Milk. I know that he was the
Speaker 1: treasurer for the Harvey Milk Gay Democratic Club I believe
Speaker 1: it was called, So odds are that he probably knew
Speaker 1: Harvey Milk. Steve Raymond was pretty like linked up with
Speaker 1: pretty influential gay activists at the time, so I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be surprised if he actually made Harvey Milk's acquaintance himself.
Speaker 1: So there's possible points of connection to Jim Jones for
Speaker 1: both of the Raymond brothers.
Speaker 5: Actually, yeah, I did want to while we're talking about
Speaker 5: the Raymond family, I did kind of want to back up.
Speaker 5: I've seen commonalities and I obviously I feel like maybe
Speaker 5: I'm just scratching a little bit. I mean, there's there
Speaker 5: were some themes in a Program to Kill that kind
Speaker 5: of fit this. And I know you talked about the
Speaker 5: Huerman case written not too long ago on William Ramsey Show,
Speaker 5: and they're some of the newer stuff that came out.
Speaker 5: As we're finding out, I guess it's not even newer,
Speaker 5: it's just people are just now catching on to this detail.
Speaker 5: Is that there seems to be a generational thing going
Speaker 5: or a fit millial SRA sort of related things or
Speaker 5: kid stuff going on.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: And there is a religious element too, which I thought
Speaker 5: was bizarre, both of which were of some sort of
Speaker 5: form of Christian supposedly they purport to. I forget the
Speaker 5: specifics of the denomination, but it just i'd be remiss
Speaker 5: to not point out the parallel and just kind of
Speaker 5: get your thoughts, because I mean I do. I vaguely
Speaker 5: recall there were other situations and Program to Kill with
Speaker 5: similar elements too, with some of the serial killers and
Speaker 5: stuff and the the way they were raised. It just
Speaker 5: seems to be a bizarre commonality. I'm noticing although it
Speaker 5: is a week, it's a week, it's a week. What's
Speaker 5: the word indicator? But yeah, no, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1: I also think that a lot of these people's like
Speaker 1: degeneracies and proclivities are typically incubated and childhood, and sometimes
Speaker 1: that's like childhood abuse. Sometimes that's due to something perhaps larger,
Speaker 1: like organized ritual abuse, and then they go on to
Speaker 1: be part of that organization or perpetrate similar crimes. But
Speaker 1: as for Fern Raymond, the Reverend, I have not been
Speaker 1: able to find anything that implicates him in anything like this.
Speaker 1: That's not to say that he didn't, but I also
Speaker 1: haven't found anything that confirms that I didn't know. I
Speaker 1: do know that he was involved with various youth organizations,
Speaker 1: but you know, I don't have any like dispositive information
Speaker 1: that suggests that. But as to the fireman case specifically, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, working in John Ray's office, we found at
Speaker 1: the office that Rex Hoireman's first cousin was a Satanic
Speaker 1: ritual abuser. He was also a Lutheran pastor in Camelis,
Speaker 1: New York. So, yeah, there are a lot of these
Speaker 1: types of like weird family connections, and you know, the
Speaker 1: more we talk about this, like some of these like
Speaker 1: strange family relations will certainly come into play. One of
Speaker 1: the Raymonds relatives was associated with Robert Maxwell as well.
Speaker 1: And Steve Raymond and his book, his horribly bizarre and
Speaker 1: disgusting book, The Poison River credits debt Live Raymond, the
Speaker 1: Robert Maxwell and Pergamon Press associate with sort of like
Speaker 1: helping broker his release or at least putting in a
Speaker 1: good word for him in Washington.
Speaker 5: Okay, sorry, it took you a little bit off off
Speaker 5: the target there, but yeah, I just it is a
Speaker 5: weird commonality you see every once in a while. I
Speaker 5: think it's just just something there. I think it's a
Speaker 5: I don't know. I just I guess maybe I'm seeing
Speaker 5: something beyond the veil that I can't prove. But it
Speaker 5: does seem weird, as if there's some sort of distortion
Speaker 5: of beliefs going on behind the scenes. Like I don't know. Anyways,
Speaker 5: let's let's keep it moving. We'll take this wherever you
Speaker 5: want to go for because we were at the family
Speaker 5: I took a side prink you a little bit.
Speaker 1: No, Well, actually you have a point there, and this
Speaker 1: is something that's been bothering me. But throughout Steve Raymond's life,
Speaker 1: he's the brother of Mark and he's who's affiliated with
Speaker 1: NAMBLA rather publicly at every point it seems like his mother,
Speaker 1: Ruth is right there with him, even though he's doing
Speaker 1: all these like horrible, degenerate, profligate, illegal things, you know,
Speaker 1: in those I posted this on Twitter, but you know,
Speaker 1: Steve Raymond is working with these like Mexican orphanages, and
Speaker 1: at one point he posts like what seems to be
Speaker 1: like an advertisement for a child in a local paper,
Speaker 1: and it's his mother who's posting it with him. And
Speaker 1: then later when Steve Raymond is running his travel business
Speaker 1: where he has like a Thai callboy ring and is
Speaker 1: you know, basically doing like sex tourism in Thailand with children,
Speaker 1: it's his mother who's helping him run tourist service unlimited,
Speaker 1: and she's in the advertisements in the newspaper with Steve
Speaker 1: Raymond listing these things. And it's his mother again who
Speaker 1: helps try to get him out of prison in Bangkok.
Speaker 1: So you know, there seems to be a family affair.
Speaker 1: I don't think my parents would help me if I
Speaker 1: were arrested on similar charges.
Speaker 5: No, no, but uh, maybe if there was some sort
Speaker 5: of weird you know, uh generational cult aspect or something
Speaker 5: going on, that might change things a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm still picking up I just I it's been so
Speaker 5: long as i've read program Killed, but I do remember
Speaker 5: there were people that were like, had bizarre relationships with
Speaker 5: their mothers and clearly seemed to be that they were
Speaker 5: playing some role. I don't know. I guess these are
Speaker 5: broken people, but uh, yeah, we're at yeah, I guess
Speaker 5: we can take this wherever you want. Now let me bo.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I'm trying to move this. You brought up
Speaker 5: the tie things. I don't know if you want to
Speaker 5: bring it there, And that reminds me of Gary Glitter.
Speaker 5: I believe that guy got busted in some I don't
Speaker 5: know if it's this one as well. He got busted
Speaker 5: in some tie operation that seemed to be where a
Speaker 5: lot of these sick fox used to go is tied
Speaker 5: to do the really fucked up shit. I mean, although
Speaker 5: they would were doing the mess up stuff kind of everywhere,
Speaker 5: it seems.
Speaker 1: Like, but uh, wherever they.
Speaker 5: I don't know where they really like to party.
Speaker 1: It seemed definitely somebody like quote tweeted me and they said,
Speaker 1: you know, Steve Raymond must have been really fucked up
Speaker 1: because like you had nineteen eighties tie police after you.
Speaker 1: It's like they were really looking the other way for
Speaker 1: a lot of these types of things, which is true.
Speaker 1: It seems like they took very few steps to conceal
Speaker 1: what they were up to over there. So the allegation
Speaker 1: is that Steve Raymond was running He was implicated in
Speaker 1: a scandal where a orphanage was a front for a
Speaker 1: brothel on The orphanage was publicly operated by Mark Morgan.
Speaker 1: Reportedly the funds for the orphanage for it's even open,
Speaker 1: those funds were provided by Howard Ruff, who was a
Speaker 1: Mormon like financier and you know, like venture capitalist. Howard
Speaker 1: Ruff claimed to not know what was going on, and
Speaker 1: often in a lot of news reports, Howard Ruff is
Speaker 1: credited actually with like bringing to Washington a lot of
Speaker 1: the information that private investigator had furnished him with showing
Speaker 1: that Mark Morgan was not running an above board orphanage
Speaker 1: but rather like a child prostitution network. I talked about
Speaker 1: a lot of this in my thread, but recently, because
Speaker 1: I knew we were going to be talking, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to refresh myself a little bit on all of
Speaker 1: this stuff. It's a lot of information. Make this map
Speaker 1: for you, and I ended up stumbling actually on a
Speaker 1: lot more people involved with this operation. So I've included
Speaker 1: that here in the chart. Mark Morgan. Basically what, according
Speaker 1: to newspaper articles, what brings down this whole operation Steve
Speaker 1: Raymond's you know, fake tour service that would liaise with
Speaker 1: Mark Morgan's operation, which was a brothel. This was all
Speaker 1: brought down by a guy named John Cummings. And if
Speaker 1: you recall and you go back to my earliest tweets
Speaker 1: in the thread, John Cummings was the guy who back
Speaker 1: in like the late sixties early seventies, with Steve Raymond,
Speaker 1: was doing the Chiuahwan orphanages and the orphanages in San Crisville, Dallas, Cassas.
Speaker 1: So John Cummings, he was according to Steve Raymond and
Speaker 1: Steve Raymond's book is The Poison River. And I have
Speaker 1: a PDF of this if anybody wants it, and I
Speaker 1: can send it to you if you ever feel like
Speaker 1: reading a really horrible book. But the person credited with
Speaker 1: bringing all of this down beyond a Howard Ruff's investigator
Speaker 1: was John Cummings, who became an informant for the Sacramento
Speaker 1: Police Department, and he basically told the Sacramento Police that
Speaker 1: Steve Raymond, Mark Morgan, and a lot of other people,
Speaker 1: many of them affiliated with NAMBLA, were running a really
Speaker 1: extensive child pornography and child prostitution network out of an
Speaker 1: orphanage and tour service in Bangkok, Thailand. So John Cummings
Speaker 1: when he becomes an informant for the Sacramento PD, he
Speaker 1: also implicates, of all people, Arthur C. Clark, the science
Speaker 1: fiction author he worked with Staniel Kubrick on two thousand
Speaker 1: and one Space Odyssey. I had sort of generally heard
Speaker 1: allegations that he was supposed to have been a pedophile.
Speaker 1: I knew he lived in Sri Lanka, which is usually
Speaker 1: a warning sign for like a single man, but he
Speaker 1: lived in Sri Lanka. John Cummings furnished the sacrament Of
Speaker 1: Police Department with an Affidavid saying that Arthur C. Clark
Speaker 1: was deeply involved in the ty brothel operations Steve Raymond
Speaker 1: and Mark Morgan, and that Arthur C. Clark was essentially
Speaker 1: like the point of contact for pedophiles who went to
Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. They wanted to get plugged into whatever network
Speaker 1: was out there, they would contact Arthur C. Clark. So
Speaker 1: I just found that the other day and it was crazy.
Speaker 5: That is bizarre.
Speaker 3: I know that name.
Speaker 4: What is he?
Speaker 5: What of note did he write? Do you recall off
Speaker 5: or now?
Speaker 1: So I'm not super familiar with his work. I'm more
Speaker 1: of a Philip K. Dick girl myself. But he wrote
Speaker 1: two thousand and one a space Odyssey. That's really all I.
Speaker 5: Know of his okay, because he was an author, right,
Speaker 5: he wasn't just a screenwriter, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: No, he was a science fiction author. And then Stanley
Speaker 1: Kubrick worked with him. He made two thousand and one
Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey into a movie, and he did that
Speaker 1: with Arthur C. Clark. I believe they collaborated.
Speaker 5: I mean, maybe that's all I know him from, but
Speaker 5: I just feel like that it seems like I know
Speaker 5: him from something else real quick, I'm looking it up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he's really really famous.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not well read, all right, whatever, Maybe somebody
Speaker 5: out there is gonna be really yeah, I'm not seeing
Speaker 5: anything that really. Odyssey is two thousand and one. I
Speaker 5: think that was somehow based off of a book of his.
Speaker 5: So yeah, all right, whatever, cool, that's what he wrote.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, sorry, a funny detail, not
Speaker 1: a funny it's sick, but it is sort of it
Speaker 1: is a little funny, but Arthur C. Clark in Sri
Speaker 1: Lanka when these allegations are all surfacing and this case
Speaker 1: is really gaining momentum and John Cummings is informing in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, he was supposed to have been knighted
Speaker 1: by Prince Charles and Arthur C. Clark because of all
Speaker 1: these servicing allegations. He had made a prior comments to newspapers.
Speaker 1: I believe in Sri Lanka that he was a pedophile.
Speaker 1: He admitted it, and he was like, what's so, what's
Speaker 1: so wrong with that? But yeah, he had to step
Speaker 1: away from his investiture ceremony with Prince Charles because he
Speaker 1: didn't want he didn't want it to look bad.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you probably should have held off on that announcement
Speaker 5: a little bit longer. Yeah, that's a weird way to
Speaker 5: blow up your nighting out yourself as a pedophile. All right, Wow, okay,
Speaker 5: all right, we see I see all these other people
Speaker 5: on here. Are any of these people worth mentioning or
Speaker 5: or these just other you tell me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so one person that I didn't mention in my
Speaker 1: spread because I just hadn't like collated all of the information.
Speaker 1: Yet who was deeply involved in this brothel network and
Speaker 1: prostitution network and would seem to be a pornography network
Speaker 1: as well, because a lot of photographs of CP were
Speaker 1: seized when the tai Police were raided the orphanage in
Speaker 1: Steve Raymond's like tour service office and apartment. One of
Speaker 1: the people who was deeply involved was Jonathan Tampico. And
Speaker 1: Jonathan Tampico had also been in the Bay Area. He
Speaker 1: comes from a very interesting family. Just another little Arthur C.
Speaker 1: Clark connection here. Tampico had been writing and exchanging letters
Speaker 1: with Arthur C.
Speaker 4: Clark.
Speaker 1: Tampico even told Sacramento PD that he had stayed at
Speaker 1: Arthur C. Clark's house in Sri Lanka and that Arthur
Speaker 1: CE Clerk was a pedophile. But Jonathan Tampico was deeply
Speaker 1: involved with the child brothels he came from, so Jonathan himself.
Speaker 1: He came from a very prominent Jewish family. His dad
Speaker 1: was Joseph Tampico. Had my notes here. Joseph Tampico served
Speaker 1: at the Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins, where he
Speaker 1: provided technical direct for development of all research and missile
Speaker 1: test equipment and the Terrier and Taylist programs, so those
Speaker 1: are like naval surface to air missiles. He was the
Speaker 1: head of Advanced Development Group at hai Con Manufacturing. He
Speaker 1: became Vice president of Engineering of the Associated Missile Products
Speaker 1: corep APL which liaised closely with the Defense Department, and
Speaker 1: you had you know, in the CIA working directly with
Speaker 1: it as well. While he was there, he was a
Speaker 1: technical consultant to the Navy Bureau of Ordnance on tactical
Speaker 1: missile test equipment. And interesting detail here is that, you know,
Speaker 1: while he was during World War Two time he actually
Speaker 1: worked for the Ordnance Core and during that time as
Speaker 1: a missile specialist, he probably would have been part of
Speaker 1: the Ordinance Core that was leasing with paper clip scientists.
Speaker 1: So Nazi paper clips scientists were actually first brought over
Speaker 1: by like trying to think of what it was called.
Speaker 1: I think it was like the rocket brand of the
Speaker 1: research and development unit of the Ordnance Core. So there's
Speaker 1: probability that Jonathan Tampico's father, Joseph was involved with like
Speaker 1: Nazi paper clips scientists as well. Jonathan Tampico himself when
Speaker 1: he initially goes down for the first charges against him,
Speaker 1: which is you know, like abusing young boys. Is he
Speaker 1: was working at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories with top secret clearance.
Speaker 1: He was a laser technologist and he worked on the
Speaker 1: Star Wars Ballistic Defense project.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's always generational, huh. That is to keep you
Speaker 5: keep finding that, all right? Because what was the Raymonds? Oh,
Speaker 5: the Raymond's dad was a reverend, and then we have
Speaker 5: TAM's dad was all right spooked up? Uh? Okay.
Speaker 1: And Steve Raymond, by the way, was in the Air Force.
Speaker 1: He said that he was honorably discharged for some sort
Speaker 1: of like health reason. But I haven't actually been able
Speaker 1: to find any records of his enlistment anything like that.
Speaker 1: But he claims that he was in the Air Force.
Speaker 5: Okay, So Steve and Mark both were enlisted at some
Speaker 5: point because Mark was the one of the fourth Okay, yep,
Speaker 5: all right, I didn't realize Steve was.
Speaker 1: As well, he claims air Force.
Speaker 5: But okay, yeah, all right. Uh, and then let me
Speaker 5: see is there any other specific ones I am, I'd
Speaker 5: be curious in digging into some of these other little
Speaker 5: nodes in here, but other in this main body here,
Speaker 5: Is there anything particularly you want to hit on between
Speaker 5: these individuals here, but I would like to dig into
Speaker 5: Francis Sheldon or maybe some of the Antarcticciety books floors
Speaker 5: touch on some of these before we get out of here,
Speaker 5: for sure. But anything in this specifically in this realm,
Speaker 5: in the Raymond thread that you want to touch on, yeah.
Speaker 1: For sure. So I'm just plowing up the chart myself here. Okay.
Speaker 1: So other thing that I just want to mention before
Speaker 1: we get off of the child development center thing is
Speaker 1: that a lot I think it's important to mention that
Speaker 1: a lot so many children came forward who had very
Speaker 1: similar allegations of abuse. FOYA documents are available for this,
Speaker 1: so you can like read through. They're heavily redacted, so
Speaker 1: it's really poor reading. It's virtually unreadable, but you will
Speaker 1: find all of the statements Neffi David's given by the
Speaker 1: children to the FBI, and they're pretty consistent with each
Speaker 1: other independently as to the abuse that occurred at the
Speaker 1: child development center. They continually mentioned something called a monkey game,
Speaker 1: and they say that they were afraid of the monkey game,
Speaker 1: and essentially it was abuse that was occurring and the
Speaker 1: adults had told them to call it the monkey game.
Speaker 1: They also said that men in uniforms with guns were
Speaker 1: the ones who had been abusing them. And you know,
Speaker 1: each child prettyum which individually reported that they had been
Speaker 1: threatened with death or their family with death if they
Speaker 1: were to tell their parents or anybody else about the abuse.
Speaker 1: So you have all of these children independently being interviewed,
Speaker 1: all with pretty consistent stories to each other, all sightings
Speaker 1: sort of like ritualistic abuse and mentioning the same teachers
Speaker 1: that had committed the abuse. They described the same people,
Speaker 1: and they pointed the same people out of lineups. So
Speaker 1: I just foind it pretty ridiculous that this would's miniga.
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Speaker 1: Be something that's just contained in the satanic panic catch all.
Speaker 1: When even if you like strip Away like the occult
Speaker 1: context of it. And you know what seemingly are like
Speaker 1: occult rituals or like a cult ritual abuse, what underlies
Speaker 1: it all is like seemingly very very real accusations of
Speaker 1: child abuse. And the interesting thing that arises out of
Speaker 1: that is, you know, researching exactly.
Speaker 5: Exactly weird do they all have false memory syndrome?
Speaker 1: Indeed, if you read through Steve Raymond's book on the
Speaker 1: police had accused him essentially of fleeing the Bay Area
Speaker 1: to Thailand, and it's because a child named Pablo Luna
Speaker 1: had come forward and accused him of abusing him, and
Speaker 1: he essentially uses the term like false memory syndrome to
Speaker 1: accuse the boy of lying. The child accused Raymond and
Speaker 1: John Cummings of applying him with LSD in the sixties
Speaker 1: and selling him. And you know, Steve Raymond's response to
Speaker 1: that is, oh, he must have been confused because of
Speaker 1: the LSD and the LSD gave him false memories of
Speaker 1: the abuse which I did not commit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, makes sense, total sense. All right, Let's all right,
Speaker 5: the eighty four. Let's see, I'm trying to think there's
Speaker 5: anything else I want to That's the one I know
Speaker 5: A Queno was I believe tied into the eighty four
Speaker 5: West Point.
Speaker 1: One, right, So that's something that I came upon a
Speaker 1: long time ago in Dave mcdown's program to Kill I think,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't. So all that really is suggestive of
Speaker 1: that is an investigator and detective called Glenn Pamphiloff. He
Speaker 1: was investigating a lot of these rings at the time,
Speaker 1: and he I think he even arrested Steve Raymond. But
Speaker 1: he must have been aware of Steve Raymond's brother's case
Speaker 1: because in a speech or presentation he gives I believe
Speaker 1: in front of a Senate committee, he claims that you know,
Speaker 1: Nambla is involved with West Point and he also mentions
Speaker 1: Michael Keino as well. It's interesting to note that I
Speaker 1: believe Pamphlof also at another point said that Aquino is
Speaker 1: very like respectable man, a very good guy. So conflicting
Speaker 1: conflicting statements from pamphle Off there. But I you know,
Speaker 1: I've been looking for a connection between a Quino and
Speaker 1: the Raymonds, and I haven't been able to find one strictly,
Speaker 1: but there is a sort of vague association between, you know,
Speaker 1: their locations. So Aquino was implicated in a daycare abuse scandal.
Speaker 1: It's lesser known in Okay Hie era in Four Bragg,
Speaker 1: so it was a little confusing to me at first.
Speaker 5: I know there were multiple military faux paus. I guess
Speaker 5: you could say is the way of putting it. But yeah,
Speaker 5: I just I always mix them up, always forget which
Speaker 5: is which, and then then I always mix mc martin
Speaker 5: always gets mixed up in there. Yeah, seem to blur together.
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: Actually really strange because I hadn't heard much about this
Speaker 1: one before. I don't think it was in Program to Kill,
Speaker 1: but I haven't read it in a while, so I
Speaker 1: could be mistaken. But you know, Miquino was implicated in
Speaker 1: the Presidio scandal, but shortly thereafter or was it was
Speaker 1: either after or like slightly before. I believe he was
Speaker 1: implicated in the Jubilation daycare scandal. It was not a
Speaker 1: military daycare center. I think it was a privately owned
Speaker 1: daycare center. It was based in Fort Bragg, California. It's
Speaker 1: not a military base. It just sounds like one. But
Speaker 1: children at the Jubilation daycare center had made pretty credible accusations. Again,
Speaker 1: a ritual abuse against the owners of the daycare. I
Speaker 1: believe their names were Barbara and Sharon or the children
Speaker 1: accuse the women of tying them up, committing animal sacrifices,
Speaker 1: drinking their blood, cutting them open with like jeweled knives,
Speaker 1: you know, wearing hooded robes, and several of the children
Speaker 1: reportedly positively identified Michael Akino as one of their abusers.
Speaker 1: And just for reference, Fort Bragg is right next to
Speaker 1: Yukaya and the Yukaya I believe he was the sheriff
Speaker 1: at the time. Let me see, I have his name
Speaker 1: written down. But the Ukaya sheriff at the time says
Speaker 1: that within yu Kaya itself he knew of more than
Speaker 1: a handful of cases that he would classify as like
Speaker 1: a cult ritual abuse where children that he thought had
Speaker 1: just been you know, sexually abused by people like Steve Raymond,
Speaker 1: but they had actually described being in church like settings
Speaker 1: with burning of candles in animal sacrifices. So it's possible
Speaker 1: that Michael Akino was in Yukayah at the same time
Speaker 1: that the Raymonds were.
Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, let's let's go to the top of this.
Speaker 5: Aren't the swithen Banks. Who are these individuals? These these
Speaker 5: don't ring a Bell. That doesn't mean I haven't read
Speaker 5: about them, but I've probably maybe forgotten about him.
Speaker 1: So these guys, this is sort of like a work
Speaker 1: in progress for me, and one of the things I
Speaker 1: started working on actually before I really started researching the
Speaker 1: Raymonds at all. But Martin's Swithin Bank was caught in
Speaker 1: Long Island for running a pretty massive child pornography operation
Speaker 1: and probably a prostitution network as well, judging by the
Speaker 1: fact people accidentally went to his door looking for like
Speaker 1: a seller of puppies, knocked on his door and a
Speaker 1: naked child answered the door, and neighbors of the house
Speaker 1: would see children just going to and fro the house
Speaker 1: at which Martin's within Bank was running the pornography operation.
Speaker 1: So Martin Swithin Bank, he was a very very wealthy
Speaker 1: brit Actually, he started his career at Oxford and then
Speaker 1: he came to Harvard Business School for his graduate degree.
Speaker 1: He let me just pull up my notes. He uh,
Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting. He was a pretty extensive pornographer. He
Speaker 1: began his career as a photographer. He even worked for
Speaker 1: Life Magazine. He ended up working for something called uh
Speaker 1: Book Adventures Incorporated, which, according to Chickenhawk, Magazines was actually
Speaker 1: like a Chicken Hawk publishing house itself. It posed as
Speaker 1: a legitimate publishing house being associated with Life magazine, but
Speaker 1: it basically catered to pedophiles who would put out sort
Speaker 1: of like erotica of children or the scantily clad children.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It clearly was like catering to a certain type of person.
Speaker 1: So he's working through Book Adventures Incorporated. And interesting is that.
Speaker 5: The Book Explorers Incorporated. Is that the same thing or
Speaker 5: is it like or because I'm just looking at the map,
Speaker 5: I'm just like before that's the question. I can't look
Speaker 5: an idiot.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's confusing. So there's a multiple like subsidiaries
Speaker 1: within it. There's Book Adventures Incorporated, which becomes Book Explorers Incorporated,
Speaker 1: and then that's simply the New York subsidiaries of something
Speaker 1: called PIP, which is Photographs International Publicity. And then there
Speaker 1: was also a UK distributor which was called Sun and
Speaker 1: Health Limited, which was actually owned by a guy called
Speaker 1: Ed Lang and he was a sort of nudist tycoon
Speaker 1: who actually had like a nudist retreat in to Pega
Speaker 1: Canyon at this time. But interestingly, some of the Book
Speaker 1: Explorers Incorporated and Book Adventures Incorporated publications were found in
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's never Land home when police executed a search warrant. Okay,
Speaker 1: when people we'll talk about, you know, Michael Jackson being
Speaker 1: associated with NAMBLA and you know types of like child
Speaker 1: sexual abuse material, it's because he has like pretty I
Speaker 1: guess for like chicken Hawks, what would be considered like
Speaker 1: iconic literature.
Speaker 5: Okay, so it looks like following this thread and the
Speaker 5: book Explores inc. That connects these individuals, which then connects
Speaker 5: background a Nambler. I'm assuming this is the connection from
Speaker 5: the two. I don't know if you there's anything you
Speaker 5: want to touch on with d W. Nichols and Walter
Speaker 5: Breen to finish up this little thread through from Martin's
Speaker 5: Futherbank from book Explorers to these individuals. So because obviously
Speaker 5: being a pedophile cutout of some sort, which there's a
Speaker 5: lot of these if you read Ie the Chickenhawk. But
Speaker 5: and I'm not surprised that use like book Explorers, Book Adventurers.
Speaker 5: It seems to be a going like you'll have all
Speaker 5: these companies that have like five different similar sounding names,
Speaker 5: but they're cutouts. They're not I mean, they're like sort
Speaker 5: of a real business, but not really like.
Speaker 1: This exactly like the Storm Services Limited. They're not very
Speaker 1: creative with the names. I think I don't want to
Speaker 1: get us like too far into the weeds with d W.
Speaker 1: Nichols and Walter Breen. Suffice to say they're active members
Speaker 1: of NAMBLA. And of course, like all of these guys
Speaker 1: are connected and they hang out together, and you know,
Speaker 1: they're writing in their own magazines and on the NAMBLA
Speaker 1: bulletin that they are all friends and they meet up together.
Speaker 1: But just like one of these like bizarre points of
Speaker 1: connection is Martin Swithin Bank. His brother, Charles Swithin Bank,
Speaker 1: was a really really famous glaci glaciologist. I think basically
Speaker 1: studying like polar ice caps and glaciers. That's what he did.
Speaker 1: And interestingly, this is like one of the most bizarre
Speaker 1: facets of what I've been looking at here. But there
Speaker 1: seems to be like a great interest of these people
Speaker 1: in geoscience specific quickly.
Speaker 5: So which antarctica angle? Is that what you were telling me?
Speaker 1: I think there might be an antarctica unfortunately, and you
Speaker 1: see it with multiple people. It's totally bizarre. But Charles
Speaker 1: Swydden Bank was actually in the University of Michigan geoscience department.
Speaker 1: If you know anything about Francis Sheldon, you know he
Speaker 1: had either a doctorate or something close to a doctorate
Speaker 1: in geoscience. I did find that he's listed as a
Speaker 1: friend and associate of the Geoscience department at the University
Speaker 1: of Michigan. So there's that. Yeah, it's very bizarre.
Speaker 5: And then I'm telling you, we're gonna find out there's
Speaker 5: a fucking interest to hallow or if there's something in
Speaker 5: the files control.
Speaker 1: At what the fuck I cannot there's like based down There.
Speaker 5: Is a bizarre especially when you've gone down enough like
Speaker 5: weird threads that I'm sure you have as well, like
Speaker 5: Operation high Jump and what's going on in Antarctica?
Speaker 1: Wait, what's Operation high Jump? I don't know?
Speaker 5: Actually, oh, okay, well I guess that's that. That was
Speaker 5: the believe the post World War two in operation they
Speaker 5: ran to. Funny enough, my wife is actually uh is
Speaker 5: a descendant of Admiral Admiral Bird, who was the one
Speaker 5: who was the like the head Air Force haun show
Speaker 5: running that operation. And they like said it was like
Speaker 5: a research thing, but I think there was like literally
Speaker 5: planes lost and like, so there's all sorts of lore
Speaker 5: behind it, like what really happened to Operation High Jump.
Speaker 5: It's like a lot of people say it was Aliens.
Speaker 5: A lot of people say they encountered some sort of
Speaker 5: Nazi base over Antarctica because it was like like some
Speaker 5: big military operation Antarctica, and they believe they lost equipment
Speaker 5: and stuff. So it's just like what happened here, and
Speaker 5: it's just like, oh, research we lost some ships, don't worry,
Speaker 5: don't look here. It was It's just one of those
Speaker 5: weird stories. A lot of people like to fill in
Speaker 5: the blanks with Aliens or Nazi Antarctica, although there is
Speaker 5: like something I'm willing.
Speaker 1: To believe Nazis and Antarctica after what I've.
Speaker 5: Seen, Yeah, exactly. So that's why I'm like, this is
Speaker 5: weird when you do color with knowing all the other
Speaker 5: weird Antarctica, Yeah, for sure. And I guess if there
Speaker 5: was something weird going on Artica, it would make sense
Speaker 5: that there be the elites with their weird proclivities.
Speaker 1: It's very lots of like military bases. From what I know,
Speaker 1: I think it's like each country has a different base there.
Speaker 1: So it's very isolated and it's like military installations. But
Speaker 1: of course it's not just Francis Sheldon and Charles Swithenbank,
Speaker 1: the mother the brother sorry of NAMBLA founder, Martin Swithin Bank,
Speaker 1: who are possibly at the University of Michigan in the
Speaker 1: geoscience department at the same time. But one of the
Speaker 1: guys who is arrested is part of the pedophile network
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Tampico, the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories, star Wars contractor
Speaker 1: and Steve Raymond and the whole child brothel situation and
Speaker 1: Thailand is a guy named Robert S. Turner. Robert S.
Speaker 1: Turner's dad was a guy named Mort Turner. Mort Turner
Speaker 1: knew Charles swydden Bank and they were part of the
Speaker 1: Antarctic in society.
Speaker 5: Together And what what what was this artic Arctic? I
Speaker 5: don't know why it's such a hard word to say,
Speaker 5: Antarctic can society? Okay, it looked easy until I started
Speaker 5: to say it. Uh so what was the Was this
Speaker 5: some sort of are you implying it may have been
Speaker 5: some sort of cutout right?
Speaker 1: I think it could have literally just been like fans
Speaker 1: of Antarctica. It seems to be comprised of like geoscientists, geophysicists, glaciologists,
Speaker 1: So it's possible that it was a legitimate organization. But
Speaker 1: I think also to be particularly interested in very niche geoscience,
Speaker 1: you might have to be a spook yourself, and you
Speaker 1: can kind of get that from looking at these guys
Speaker 1: backgrounds to Charles swythen Bank has like a very bizarre
Speaker 1: work history. So according to his obituary, he suddenly and
Speaker 1: unexpectedly became involved with the Argentinian invasions of South Georgia
Speaker 1: and the Falkland Islands by providing specialists vice to the
Speaker 1: British government. He specialized in reconnaissance surveys from satellite imagery.
Speaker 5: Argentinian. What year was this?
Speaker 1: I believe that it was in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 5: Two, Okay, because I heard Argentinian we were talking Nazis Antarctica,
Speaker 5: and it's like, I don't know if the conspiracies obviously
Speaker 5: the escape to Argentina, so it was like, yeah, way,
Speaker 5: if this is post World War two, I'm gonna lose
Speaker 5: it all right, Okay, never.
Speaker 1: Mind not Yeah, that's in nineteen eighty two. I think
Speaker 1: I have to check his obituary to be sure. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't stop there. In nineteen eighty three he liaised
Speaker 1: with the Chilean Air Force as to the possibility of
Speaker 1: wheeled landings on inland ice. He did radio echo surveys
Speaker 1: in cooperation with the US government, which provided large aircraft
Speaker 1: deploying depots for smaller aircraft as part of the British
Speaker 1: Antarctic Survey. Why that would be going on in Chile,
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Yeah, it's weird, very yeah, very bizarre,
Speaker 1: but yeah, a lot a lot of these people end
Speaker 1: up in geoscience for some reason. Robert S. Turner, whose
Speaker 1: dad Mort was part of this Antarctic in society with
Speaker 1: Charles Fittenbank and actually worked with him on several projects,
Speaker 1: was a geoscience professor himself. I believe he worked in
Speaker 1: data analytics for Berkeley Laboratories and he taught geoscience as well. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: one of the Raymond's brothers, Laura and Raymond, also worked
Speaker 1: as a professor in North Carolina of geoscience. So an
Speaker 1: inexplicable attraction they feel to this field of study.
Speaker 5: Very bizarre. Yeah, I really feel like there's a there there,
Speaker 5: but I don't even know what there is to probe
Speaker 5: at it other than that's weird. Well, I mean, I
Speaker 5: guess it's weird. I mean like when you start digging
Speaker 5: into these like these elites or whatever, they're gonna have
Speaker 5: weird interests as well. I mean, how like I remember
Speaker 5: when all a lot of the Epstein stuff was dropping.
Speaker 5: You heard all the weird stuff like genetic things he funded,
Speaker 5: or astronomy or like he was in so many different weird,
Speaker 5: odd things that you really only do when you just
Speaker 5: have so much money to blow you don't know what
Speaker 5: to use it on. You're like, I'm gonna do weird
Speaker 5: ship and really odd things I'm interested in. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 5: all right, let's bring it to the middle here over
Speaker 5: at a these Francis Sheldon, if I might be recalling
Speaker 5: this incorrectly, it was Sheldon was the book that essentially
Speaker 5: the the all of the I don't know if you've
Speaker 5: read Eye of the Chicken Out, Have you read it? Okay?
Speaker 5: You know how like starts it kind of like starts
Speaker 5: and ends in the same way, like kind of it
Speaker 5: comes as in a full circle. And I forget if
Speaker 5: it's if it was Sheldon that it circled back on
Speaker 5: like if that, because that's the one. I believe it's
Speaker 5: making the cases some sort of he's heavily implying as
Speaker 5: some sort of informant. It seems like he's kind of
Speaker 5: throughout this book kind of heavily implying there are there
Speaker 5: are strings being pulled by uh, you know, people in
Speaker 5: like seats of power. That is what he's kind of
Speaker 5: implying with that. I don'tber tho Sheldon or not. Maybe
Speaker 5: I'm thinking of somebody else. I forget. There's so many names,
Speaker 5: it's hard to it.
Speaker 1: Might have been somebody else if I'm recalling with if
Speaker 1: we're on the same page. I think it's possible because
Speaker 1: I know that Sheldon sort of like evaded any sort
Speaker 1: of like punishment for his actions. He had been implicated
Speaker 1: in the Oakland County child killings he supposedly funded, or
Speaker 1: he's reported to have funded, according to informants, like a
Speaker 1: snuff film in which one of the children died. He
Speaker 1: was also I believe a writer for certain you know,
Speaker 1: like boy Lover Rags. I think Hermes was one of them,
Speaker 1: and another one was Better Life Monthly, which was also
Speaker 1: called Boy Lover Monthly. But I do think that he
Speaker 1: ended up like escaping to the Netherlands, and before he
Speaker 1: leaves Michigan, he establishes a trust where who comes to
Speaker 1: be the beneficiary of his interviews trust but Edward Brongersma,
Speaker 1: who was a Dutch congressman, notorious propagate and unrepentant pedophile.
Speaker 5: So you said, this is when he's left Michigan, he
Speaker 5: left this in the trust. That what you're saying, Yeah,
Speaker 5: and this was the North Was this the North Fox,
Speaker 5: Michigan stuff that he was involved in?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, I.
Speaker 1: Think it's Francis Sheldon who owned North Fox Island.
Speaker 5: And so this is when he's shuttling off to trying
Speaker 5: to evade capture when that whole thing blew up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And he sets up a trust and the
Speaker 1: person who administers that trust later on after you know,
Speaker 1: there was a company's called Virgin Something Limited. The person
Speaker 1: who succeeds Virgin Something Limited is Edward Bronger's. This like
Speaker 1: famous Netherlands pedophile.
Speaker 5: And so to recap that, let me throw you off again,
Speaker 5: just the audience so they understand if and to make
Speaker 5: sure I'm collecting this right, and I vaguely recollect this
Speaker 5: from the book. This is how essentially he made his escape,
Speaker 5: he placed all this stuff inside of a trust and
Speaker 5: then he allowed it to someone else to be able
Speaker 5: to take over that trust, and that was essentially the
Speaker 5: way that he was able to escape scot free not
Speaker 5: lose any assets or anything. I mean, he technically lost
Speaker 5: assets because it went to somebody else, but it didn't
Speaker 5: get taken. So I'm assuming that I would assume that
Speaker 5: he later was able to talk to this Bronker's mug
Speaker 5: guy and still probably essentially was kind of in a
Speaker 5: puppet way controlling his assets. I would assume.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think that there was some sort of
Speaker 1: like dispute with Adam Starchild, who was the accountant and
Speaker 1: moneyman for a lot of these organizations. I think like
Speaker 1: Adam's Starchild tried to like get some of the money.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have to consult my
Speaker 1: notes and reread parts of I Have the Chicken Hawk,
Speaker 1: but there might there might have been some complications with
Speaker 1: the distribution of money from the being.
Speaker 5: Is this was like a shell game to be essentially
Speaker 5: that I was getting it to be able to get
Speaker 5: away Scott free and keep assets everything be protected. Oh no,
Speaker 5: it's just in somebody else's name, and it's like, okay, sure,
Speaker 5: but this is one of your buddies, your your Chicken
Speaker 5: Hawk buddies exactly.
Speaker 1: And there's another connection to Steve Raymond here too, because
Speaker 1: in The Poison River, Steve Raymond's book, he we pull
Speaker 1: up the actual page, but he actually claims and I
Speaker 1: think the person that he claims to have hosted at
Speaker 1: his house has to have been Edward Brongersma. There are
Speaker 1: very few other people it could possibly be. But he says,
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four, I hosted a cocktail party at
Speaker 1: my home on Russian Hill for a former member of
Speaker 1: the Dutch Parliament who had authored a bill that legalized
Speaker 1: gay sex in the Netherlands, in whom I had met
Speaker 1: a few years earlier in Amsterdam. The legislator had come
Speaker 1: to San Francisco to speak for the abolition of laws
Speaker 1: that prescribe sexual activity. So that has to have been
Speaker 1: Edward Brongersma, and I did check. Edward Brongersma did do
Speaker 1: a lecture at Stanford University in nineteen eighty four, the
Speaker 1: exact year that Steve Raymond is alleging that this Dutch
Speaker 1: congressman comes and visits his house. So it's a strong
Speaker 1: likelihood that it was Edward Brongersma that Steve Raymond is
Speaker 1: hanging out with.
Speaker 5: Okay, all right, last little node we have on here
Speaker 5: is the Acolyte Press. I don't know if if you
Speaker 5: want to hit on that, and then I guess kind
Speaker 5: of any final thoughts after that, I guess yeah.
Speaker 1: So for me, this was one of the most disturbing
Speaker 1: things about researching this whole network. It seems like the
Speaker 1: people involved with it kind of got off scott free,
Speaker 1: which you know, we were just talking about Francis Sheldon.
Speaker 1: It's no surprise, but it's pretty disturbing because Steve Raymond
Speaker 1: is still alive and he still lives either in Thailand
Speaker 1: or the Bay Area. He was actually allowed to go
Speaker 1: back to Thailand and his book The Poison River, which
Speaker 1: keep in mind, is supposed to be his vindication of himself.
Speaker 1: He's saying, like, I'm innocent, and you know, John Cummings
Speaker 1: and all these other people conspired against me. Never mind
Speaker 1: about how I was hanging out with all of these
Speaker 1: like known pedophiles and I was a member of Nambled myself.
Speaker 1: Forget all of that, but this is my vindication. I
Speaker 1: didn't actually do any of these things. His book, The
Speaker 1: Poison River is published by Acolyte Press, which was run
Speaker 1: by Francis Sheldon and published like or pedophile erotica. And
Speaker 1: it gets even more disturbing because the organization that provides
Speaker 1: the ForWord for this book is Amnesty International, saying talking
Speaker 1: about how Steve Raymond was so wrongfully victimized in Thai prisons.
Speaker 1: Very disturbing. And I do have my notes here. You'll notice.
Speaker 1: I'll send you a picture of the cover of this book,
Speaker 1: but it has the most bizarre cover art. It's like,
Speaker 1: if you could imagine what like a pedophiles book cover
Speaker 1: would look like, it would it would be this. Let
Speaker 1: me just pull it up. Yeah. So it's published by
Speaker 1: Acolyte Press and the guy who does the cover art
Speaker 1: is Jim Surine. Jim Surine is based in Michigan. He
Speaker 1: lived in Detroit and he was part of General Motors
Speaker 1: from the sixties to the eighties and he was in
Speaker 1: a relatively high position. I don't think he was an executive,
Speaker 1: but he was something close to that. Well, why do
Speaker 1: we have a guy who was part of General Motors
Speaker 1: in a relatively high level position in Detroit?
Speaker 4: Right like?
Speaker 1: Making this bizarre, like creepy cover art for a nambla
Speaker 1: steering committee member, and like Notorious Pedophiles book and by
Speaker 1: Jim Surreene. I believe he's a reverend himself, so you know,
Speaker 1: I can't make any accusations, but he certainly chooses to
Speaker 1: keep strange company, is what I can say.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and oh sorry, go ahead for it. I was
Speaker 5: just gonna mention it. I assumed you were going to
Speaker 5: bring it up. I thought you might have been done there.
Speaker 5: There were definitely some some shenanigans going on in the
Speaker 5: general general motors higher up at the very least. Uh,
Speaker 5: there is it covers in the eye that chicken hawk.
Speaker 5: There is a whole thread of individuals, uh what's the
Speaker 5: word of them for essentially working together to traffic children
Speaker 5: as what it seems like, in one way, shape or form,
Speaker 5: and cover up each other's crimes. I believe that, if
Speaker 5: I recall correctly, I believe this one kind of weaves
Speaker 5: a lot into the North Fox. Obviously we're even just
Speaker 5: now we're within one or two away from North Fox,
Speaker 5: you know, directly connected, but these were kind of you know,
Speaker 5: tied into it. So a lot of general motors people
Speaker 5: point being as this was part of the network. So
Speaker 5: I mean, here we are at General Motors. It is
Speaker 5: weird how just that one book there ties in so
Speaker 5: many different parts brings to Francis Sheldon's uh, you know
Speaker 5: Alcolyte Press, you know, so I know it's just interesting.
Speaker 5: But yeah, Well, is there any any final thoughts you
Speaker 5: have on any any specific things you want to hone
Speaker 5: in on that you feel like we either missed or
Speaker 5: should have it, should have oed in on anything along
Speaker 5: those lines, Just final thoughts generally.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The only person I can think of that we haven't
Speaker 1: really gone over who is really an integral part of
Speaker 1: the you know, Thai situation with Steve Raymond, Mark Morgan
Speaker 1: and all these people is David Grote. David Grote he
Speaker 1: comes up frequently in Steve Raymond's book. He rationalizes his
Speaker 1: relationship with him and pretends to not know why. David
Speaker 1: Grot had been incarcerated before he fled to Thailand. He
Speaker 1: had been incarcerated because he was part of a raid
Speaker 1: on a Wareham, Massachusetts cottage that had been, according to
Speaker 1: the press multiple articles, a nambla safe house and like
Speaker 1: operations base. I saw in several articles it was called
Speaker 1: a safe house, and then another few it was called
Speaker 1: like the base of operations for Nambla. So you know,
Speaker 1: either it's a safe house or it is literally where
Speaker 1: they're running all these child pornography operations out of because
Speaker 1: the police also sees south of pictures of children and
Speaker 1: explicit pictures with adults and them as well. And David
Speaker 1: grow is arrested as part of that operation and then
Speaker 1: flees to Thailand where he works for Mark Morgan's orphanage.
Speaker 1: But David Grote also has you know, a rather interesting
Speaker 1: arrest history. When this Warem cottage is rated by the police,
Speaker 1: they find a picture of what looks like Eton Pates.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you're familiar at all with the
Speaker 1: eton Pates case. So he was one of like the
Speaker 1: originally like most famous like child abductions. He was never found.
Speaker 1: He disappeared in the eighties.
Speaker 5: You know, there were.
Speaker 1: Exactly it was very much like a Johnny Gosh figure
Speaker 1: and it was replete with you know, like a lot
Speaker 1: of suggestions that it could have been like a pedophile
Speaker 1: network that had abducted him before they got the guy
Speaker 1: who they have imprisoned now for his murder. And it's
Speaker 1: very sketchy. I think like they didn't even create like
Speaker 1: a recording of his interrogation where he supposedly confessed. It's
Speaker 1: very weird. There was a guy who was a pedophile
Speaker 1: who claimed have been with eton Pates the day that
Speaker 1: he disappeared. He had abducted him with plans of molesting him.
Speaker 1: This guy has like a windfall of ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: as soon as like eton Pace disappears and he goes
Speaker 1: to travel in the Middle East in Europe. I know
Speaker 1: that Maury Terry and Ed Sanders sort of corresponded, thinking
Speaker 1: that they thought that the Eton pat subduction had something
Speaker 1: to do with like pedophiles associated with the processed Church
Speaker 1: of the Final Judgment. And then you have David grow
Speaker 1: at this Wareham cottage, which is either the headquarters for
Speaker 1: NAMBLA or an important safehouse for NAMBLA, having a calendar
Speaker 1: called a Boy with the Boyhood calendar, where there was
Speaker 1: a boy of the month and the boy looked almost
Speaker 1: exactly like eton Pates. And it's pretty interesting how that
Speaker 1: was handled. Basically, the FBI said, Namble, is this eton Pats.
Speaker 1: Namble said, oh, no, of course, not this other boy
Speaker 1: who we actually can't locate right now. But Russa shurt
Speaker 1: it is not Euton Pates and the FAU I said, okay,
Speaker 1: it's not Eton Pates.
Speaker 5: Then good enough for government work. Yeah, great, one little
Speaker 5: note I realized, I don't don't maybe we did mention it,
Speaker 5: or you did mention it. I missed it. The South
Speaker 5: Park Youth Organization, I'm assuming that's just some sort of
Speaker 5: other cutout where somehow they figured out some scam to
Speaker 5: get children somewhere and get wealthy men there as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it seems like John Cummings, Mark Raymond, Steve Raymond,
Speaker 1: they all sort of grow up together in Mendocino County,
Speaker 1: in like the Santa Slaus County area. They're all involved
Speaker 1: in youth organizations together. They're all involved in Boy Scouts,
Speaker 1: you know, that youth organization which seems to have been
Speaker 1: like set up to help like underprivilege, like black and
Speaker 1: Hispanic kids and orphans. And they were also involved in
Speaker 1: Big Brothers. Mark Raymond actually I think helped create the
Speaker 1: Big Brothers chapter of Mendocino County. There's actually some pretty
Speaker 1: interesting stuff on that that I just found today. But
Speaker 1: I was murdered in like twenty ten by a child
Speaker 1: who claim not by a child, but by a man
Speaker 1: who claimed he had been abused as a child by
Speaker 1: the man he murdered. In the Mendocino County Big Brothers
Speaker 1: at the time that Mark Raymond would have been there,
Speaker 1: So it was definite if not it if not like
Speaker 1: a legitimate, you know, organization on its face, Like there
Speaker 1: are Big Brothers chapters that aren't just like fronts for pedophiles.
Speaker 1: This one, which was set up by Mark Raymond, seems
Speaker 1: to have been definitely participating in things like that. I mean,
Speaker 1: if we were to assume that Mark Raymond was a suspect,
Speaker 1: not assume, but we know that Mark Raymond was a
Speaker 1: suspect in the West Point Child Development Center case, and
Speaker 1: he is associating with John Cummings and all of these
Speaker 1: people who are you know, known pedophiles and NAMBLO members.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be surprised if these abusive activities also happened at
Speaker 1: the Mendocino County Big Brothers and there's definitely evidence that
Speaker 1: it was happening at the time. I'm just with somebody else.
Speaker 5: Well, all right, I think we've kind of plumbed the
Speaker 5: depths of depravity enough today I'd be happy to have
Speaker 5: you on again some other time. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5: If you want to let people know where they can
Speaker 5: find you at kind of anything you're working on, I
Speaker 5: would highly implore you to maybe start making a substack
Speaker 5: or something for these threads. Be that way we can
Speaker 5: kind of keep this information perpetuity, pass it on. You know,
Speaker 5: information is power. But yeah, if you go letting my
Speaker 5: audience know that, that'd be great and we can go
Speaker 5: and get out of here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So all I have right now is
Speaker 1: X and it's just Lena Edgett l E N A
Speaker 1: A J A I T and I post threads there
Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll stop being lazy and make us substacks too.
Speaker 1: And for all of this stuff, well, I.
Speaker 5: Mean, as someone who's written one article can tell you,
Speaker 5: and it was on substack. If you've done threads before,
Speaker 5: it's super easy just to move it from one of
Speaker 5: the others.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. It's probably easier because you spend so
Speaker 1: much time like condensing it for this thread too, So
Speaker 1: all of that energy should just be invested in.
Speaker 5: I think it's great for people who like research to
Speaker 5: take this stuff and put it in every different format.
Speaker 5: It's probably because then you retain it, you get really good.
Speaker 5: It's just and brings you to another level. You're you're
Speaker 5: making a thread, you turn that thread into an article,
Speaker 5: you do a presentation on it. You just keep and
Speaker 5: it's always easy to change it from one format to
Speaker 5: the other because you're just making minor little changes, but
Speaker 5: you learn something a little bit different out of each
Speaker 5: each way you use it essentially for sure. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 5: I really dig your work. Look forward to talking to
Speaker 5: you against Sometimes the future we'll probably have to do
Speaker 5: like a Long Island serial Killer episode at some point. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it'd be dope. But for those who want to support
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