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Speak to the Innovate team today, Innovate dot Ie, 18 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.320 Innovate the IT solutions people. 19 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:14.239 Oh God, Loness, I don't ask my scap Frost, you 20 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:18.239 don't watch my scap Frost, my step Frock, that sun. 21 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:48.719 There's so there's not outside outside, your last love lives, 22 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:52.719 the Supers, the. 23 00:01:52.959 --> 00:02:09.080 Size, What is up? Welcome to No Way, Jose. This 24 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:13.120 is Jose Gallisan. Today I am joined by Lena Ajite. 25 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.919 She is a parapolitical researcher. She's in a lot of 26 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:20.080 stuff on the Long Island serial killer stuff, and we'll 27 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.599 get into that in a little bit before we get 28 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:24.360 going for the day. I do want to let you 29 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:26.240 guys know that today's episode is brought to you by 30 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:29.879 Nadeau Shaveco. If you're tired of that razor burn irritation 31 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.599 that you get from those deep penetrating multi blade cardges, 32 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:34.360 then this is the way to go. Go back to 33 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.680 traditional shave. You don't need expensive nonsense, whether you're shaving 34 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:39.240 your whole face or just edging up your beard. The 35 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.680 single blades give you a Barberberg grade shave for a 36 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.400 fraction of the price. The standard issue, which comes with 37 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.080 just one traditional safety razor and a box of one 38 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:49.599 hundred stainless steal razor blades, puts you out up at 39 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:51.919 about seventy five bucks. I rarely put a dent into this. 40 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:54.159 I'll probably go years that's supposed to be for a 41 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:56.919 whole year seventy five bucks, but depends on how frequently 42 00:02:56.960 --> 00:02:58.400 a shave. If you shave on the regular, you may 43 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:00.400 want to consider the quarter Shave Club that puts you 44 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.240 about twenty five cents per replacement blade. Use Jose at 45 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.840 checkout for ten percent off. With that, let's go ahead 46 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.280 and get our guests in here. What is up, Lena. 47 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:12.159 It is a pleasure talking to you. 48 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:13.080 Uh. 49 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:16.560 It is pretty serendipitous how we met, because I actually 50 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:20.159 had watched a show with you like forever ago, and 51 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.159 I was really impressed with some of the like research 52 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:24.240 that dropped and I wanted to follow that thread later 53 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:26.800 at some point, and then I just happened to follow 54 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.080 and found your account on Twitter and we was like, 55 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.039 thought they were great threads, and then like found you 56 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:33.960 that way. Then I like organically DMD you and I 57 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:36.520 was like, I'd love Devulina's show. This is not knowing 58 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.319 who you were at all, just based off threads on Twitter, 59 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.080 and I was like, oh shit, that's weird how the 60 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:43.360 world works like that. So it's a pleasure having you here. 61 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:44.560 It's kind of weird how it worked out. 62 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:47.560 Thanks for having me the one time. The algorithm seems 63 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:48.639 to have worked in my favor. 64 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:52.120 Yeah, well you want to let it let my audience 65 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.560 know who you are, what you're about. I found you 66 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:57.879 through I believe was William Ramsey's channel with the Long 67 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:00.960 Island serial Killer stuff. But it seems to be you 68 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:03.039 have a pretty wide breath of interest, and I don't 69 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:04.960 know if you've really dug into other stuff or if 70 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:07.199 you've made your bones and other things, are just doing 71 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.319 this for funzies. I know really nothing about you aside 72 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.080 from you've done some research there and I really have 73 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:16.600 dugged your threads on Twitter. So if there's things I'm 74 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.199 leaving out, then that just you feel free to inform 75 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:19.959 me in my audience. 76 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:23.800 Well that pretty much covers it. Yeah, for those who 77 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:28.040 haven't seen. I do work with John Ray. He is 78 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.759 the attorney for the families some of the families in 79 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.120 the Long Island serial killer case. I ended up working 80 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.319 up as his legal assistant. Before that, I was doing 81 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:38.720 research for him, and I continue to do research for 82 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.759 him as well. But yeah, outside of that, I research 83 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:47.279 a lot of things in the parapolitical realm, you know, specifically, 84 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:50.639 I've been sort of interested and had a file networks 85 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:57.519 and how those networks seemingly tie in to political power, 86 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:00.680 blackmail operations, and sometimes serial killing. 87 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:06.160 So yeah, so are you just doing this for funzies 88 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:09.360 or that's all this? I didn't you're not even really 89 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:11.600 putting out content per se or anything like that, or 90 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:13.519 do you have a substack or I. 91 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:15.800 Want to make a substack just because I feel like 92 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:18.800 my Twitter threads are really annoying and it's too much 93 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:22.439 information to put into a thread. You know, they're really long. 94 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.360 I know that, so I want to do that, but 95 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:27.040 for now it is. It has been kind of just 96 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:32.720 for funsies, and I guess it's creepy for me to 97 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.399 just have this all like on my wall and in 98 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.279 my notes and to not put it somewhere, And especially 99 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.079 with this west Point thing that I posted, I feel 100 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.759 like people would be pretty interested in what I found. 101 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:44.839 So yeah, well we'll dig into that a second. I 102 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.199 am kind of curious, was that an original thread you 103 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:50.360 found yourself, because I've read a Program to Kill, I've 104 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.240 read I The Chicken Hawk, and these are like both 105 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:55.519 both of these were like threads that were sort of 106 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:57.600 touched on that I recall. I don't remember if they 107 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.399 really dug into these or if these were fresh stuff, 108 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:03.319 I don't recall, like I recall like some of this 109 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:07.560 stuff being stuff that obviously the presidity, not the presidio, 110 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:11.879 but the the what the the daycare case, Like I 111 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.839 recall that I recall like it's like I recall some 112 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:17.199 of the individuals like that were in the eye the 113 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:20.120 Chicken Hawks and in their little graph. But I just 114 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:21.920 I don't know if this is like a specific thread 115 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:24.120 you've been following and you fleshed out more on your own, 116 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.360 what what put you down this path specifically? 117 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:27.720 Was it? 118 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:30.639 Were you on it before the Chickenhawk came out? 119 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:30.959 What? 120 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:33.759 What's going on there? Are you? Simon Dove? 121 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.000 I wish? I wish. 122 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:41.079 By the way, for those who aren't deep air political nerds, 123 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:43.319 that's a pseudonym. No one knows who that the fuck 124 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.839 it is. That's who wrote I think his. 125 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.920 I think his twitter is the Hot Star or something 126 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.959 like that. I should pull it up, but I think 127 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.680 I found his twitter, which is also really good. But 128 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:55.720 it's definitely a real guy. I thought it might be 129 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:58.399 like a Gnome de Garrett first, but I think it's 130 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.480 a real guy named Simon W. But I could be wrong. 131 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:03.519 In the book. But maybe I'm wrong. 132 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.240 I don't know. Yeah, possibly, possibly, But it is like 133 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:08.439 a real guy who is on Twitter who wrote it, 134 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:10.680 and he has a fab Twitter I'll link you after this. 135 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:11.639 I thought it was. 136 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:16.480 I didn't realize that actually had a Twitter account, So no, 137 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:17.160 he doesn't. 138 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:19.959 It's really good, lots of good research that he puts 139 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.959 out there, but it's not under Simon w it's I 140 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:24.720 think it's the hot Star. And he has a blog too, 141 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:27.160 which is really good. And you know, some of the 142 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:31.160 stuff I ended up finding actually connects with a lot 143 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:34.240 of his research and other people's research too, who have 144 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.720 been specifically looking into like the Oakland County child killer. 145 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.759 But the way I sort of came out upon this 146 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.240 West Point thing, and you know, it had like percolated 147 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:46.600 in my mind for a while since I'd read Program 148 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:48.399 to Kill. I always wanted to know more about it. 149 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.439 I knew the basics that Rudy Giuliani sort of steered 150 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.120 the grand jury, there were no indictments. There seemed to 151 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:59.680 be like real like substance to the allegations of a 152 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:02.480 from the children. So I was always curious about it. 153 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:05.399 But I actually didn't stumble upon any of this information 154 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.360 looking into West Point Child Development Center specifically, I was 155 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:12.600 actually doing research on NAMBLA, and you know, I was 156 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:15.240 just going through all of these old newspaper clippings and 157 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:18.920 trying to dig up stuff on NAMBLA. And that's how 158 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.399 I came upon Mark Raymond, who, as far as I know, 159 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:25.160 is the only person who's really been mentioned as a 160 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:28.759 person of interest and actual like participant in the child 161 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:29.720 development scandal. 162 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:33.919 Okay, well, I do want to I do want to 163 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.480 really start digging to that at some point. But I 164 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:37.840 am just how you even got to this pot in 165 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.960 the first place, because we're in a very niche dark world. 166 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.159 I mean, we mentioned Program to Kill e the Chicken Hawk. 167 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:47.559 These are like, uh, these are like teared like stuff like, uh, 168 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:49.440 I don't know if you've been paying it, if you 169 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.679 pay attention to, like say like Candice Owen, she's been 170 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:54.840 raving about like Chaos by Tom O'Neil for a while, Yeah, 171 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:57.120 which is a great book. But this is like surface 172 00:08:57.240 --> 00:09:00.639 level parapolitical stuff. Yeah, you're like, oh, you read Chaos, 173 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:04.360 that's cute. Whereas we're at either Chicken Hawk, a Program 174 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:09.320 to Kill like these type of dark, dark books. So 175 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.720 where did like I started from theory world. I was 176 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:14.519 like a bit of a par of like or a 177 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:18.320 political theory nerd, like a libertarian and cap world whatever, 178 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.720 Like what got you to this dark corner of I 179 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:25.720 guess what we call parapolitics to where we are here 180 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:30.399 this this is clearly your specific interest, Like if you're 181 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:32.000 I'm not sure how much you know about me. My 182 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:33.799 thing has kind of been like the Oklahoma City bombing. 183 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:36.679 That's kind of where like become my niche. Although I am, 184 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.919 I am also like that I find there weirdly to 185 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.639 be connections between these started dark things. There always is 186 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:44.879 when you dig a few layers deep, it's always the 187 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:49.240 elites trying to fuck your kids. But uh, just kind 188 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:52.000 of curious how you've gotten here because this is like 189 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.000 a it's almost like the parody that position that they 190 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:58.320 say us conspiracy people have, but it's like yeah, but 191 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:00.639 we can like legit break it down for you how 192 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:04.039 it's like happening, Like I don't know if this was 193 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:06.240 like on the show or if this was before we started. 194 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:08.399 I was mentioning the dew Trow case that I've been 195 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.120 covering on my morning streams. It's like I can list 196 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.039 off the over twenty suspicious desk connected to it. Yeah, 197 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:19.039 I mean we're at a spot where it's like we're 198 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.440 not really being crazy, like this is stuff that's happening. 199 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:25.879 How did you get to this dark corner of research? 200 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:30.799 I've always been interested in these types of events. But 201 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:34.840 to be honest, it's funny that you mentioned Chaos and 202 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:39.559 Program to Kill specifically because my husband actually introduced me 203 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.279 to those books probably I don't know, like four or 204 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:45.960 five years ago, so I'm kind of like new to it, 205 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:47.679 to be honest. You know, some people have been reading 206 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:50.200 this stuff, like McGowan's work specifically from when it first 207 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.440 came out, but after that it I don't know, especially 208 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:57.519 after reading Program to Kill. It really changed my life 209 00:10:57.559 --> 00:10:59.559 and I couldn't go back. Like once I had read 210 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:02.080 that and I started looking into all of those things. 211 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.200 I couldn't stop, and I couldn't look away like once. 212 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:08.960 It's such a powerful thesis. I feel like in Program 213 00:11:09.159 --> 00:11:12.159 to Kill, and you know, I've always wondered, like why, 214 00:11:12.279 --> 00:11:16.080 specifically the phenomena of serial killing and the United States. 215 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:18.559 It always just struck me as a very bizarre phenomena, 216 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.000 And after reading his book, I just I couldn't stop, 217 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.120 you know, so it started me down this dark path. 218 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:27.240 So you just went right straight off the deep end. 219 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:30.159 You didn't even like warm up with any other like 220 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:32.000 because it is it's like usually I feel like it 221 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:35.080 goes like I remember if I was gonna obviously start 222 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:37.679 off in theory world, but then I read Terror Factory 223 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.159 by Trevor Aarnson, and then you get to like that's 224 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:42.519 like very serp. Then you get to chaos, and then 225 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:44.440 you get aberration in the heartland of the reel by 226 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:46.720 like wit painting with the local city, and then you 227 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.399 start getting to like McGowan and then you're like, oh shit, 228 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:52.639 like I'm seeing what's really going on beyond the veil, 229 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:55.120 and I'm a little bit scared, and it's kind of 230 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.480 kind of where we're petering at, which, yeah, I guess 231 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.279 let's let's get back into what we were talking about, 232 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.840 the the what you were wanting to talk about today. 233 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:07.399 The Mark this Mark Raymond character, who's I believe his 234 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:13.440 brother was essentially the main dude of Namblah. So I mean, 235 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:16.399 I guess it's we can start wherever you want. I 236 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.000 have a actually I'll bring up right now for the audience. 237 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.720 I'll go ahead and bring up the the what did 238 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.120 we decide these are called? 239 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:24.399 Was it? 240 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.919 Let me see the network continuity map. Key, This is 241 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.120 a little schizo map that we have so we can 242 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.519 follow all these things. So we see right here we 243 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.639 have eighty four West Point Child Development Center scandal and 244 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:38.360 then Mark Raymond and Steve Raymond. So I mean we 245 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.559 can follow along there to make it easier for all 246 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.480 of us than the the eighties child the tie child 247 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.799 brothel callboy operation down here. So obviously this branched off 248 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.080 different ways, so we can kind of go wherever you want. 249 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.480 And uh yeah, I'll let you take the lead. 250 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:57.120 Great. So I'm not going to repeat my thread word 251 00:12:57.159 --> 00:12:58.919 for word. I feel like if people want to read that, 252 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.399 they can go that. I don't want to be redundant. 253 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:06.039 But just a little background, you know. I'm just fishing 254 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.679 around trying to learn a little bit about NAMBLA because 255 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:10.480 it's sure seems like they're behind a lot of like 256 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:14.840 child murders and child abductions, especially here on the East Coast. 257 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:19.159 And I stumbled across a newspaper article connecting a guy 258 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:25.039 named Mark Raymond with not only NAMBLA via materials that 259 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.559 he's actually receiving to his West Point address, but his 260 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.120 brother who's a steering committee member there, but also to 261 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.159 the West Point Child Development Center scandal that had always 262 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:37.919 piqued my interest, and not much information is really available 263 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:43.399 about and Mark Raymond. In I believe, nineteen eighty five 264 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.559 nineteen eighty six, he's formally accused of molesting one of 265 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:51.480 his or two rather of his coworker's children at a 266 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:57.000 retirement party, I believe, and it's investigated in nineteen eighty six, 267 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.440 nothing seems to come of it because he moves on 268 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:03.320 I believe, to Santa Cruz and then he ends up 269 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:08.240 honorably discharged after receiving some like commendations and medals. So 270 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:12.919 even though he was receiving CP to his West Point address, 271 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:17.559 there seemed to be credible allegations of abuse against him 272 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:20.879 from two children and the parents of the children. You know, 273 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.159 nothing happened to him and he continued to have a 274 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.519 good military career and a good journalism career as well. 275 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.759 So a little background on the Raymond family. So Mark 276 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.679 Raymond is the guy who's associated with the child development scandal. 277 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.279 His brother is Steve Raymond, and Mark kind of throws 278 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:40.799 his brother under the bus when he's accused of, you know, 279 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.879 touching these kids inappropriately, and you know, like the allegations 280 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:47.240 of the material that he's receiving to his West Point 281 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.559 address come up. He throws his brother under the bus 282 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.639 and he says, Oh, that's just my brother who is 283 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.960 deeply involved with NAMBLA, and I just so happened to 284 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:58.440 fit like what everybody thinks a pedophile is like, AKA, 285 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.200 love spending time with kids that I have no relation to. 286 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.279 I participate in youth organizations, and I'm not married and 287 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:08.480 I don't have any kids of my own. So kind 288 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:10.919 of a suspicious thing to say, I think. You know, 289 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.639 usually you don't have to defend yourself against abuse allegations 290 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:17.200 in that way. But a little background on the Raymond family, 291 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.440 I suppose is in order I covered this in my thread, 292 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:25.120 But the Raymond brothers were born in Modesto County, which 293 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:28.559 is north of San Francisco. Their father was a reverend 294 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.799 at the first United Methodist Church. They lived in Ukaiah 295 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:34.879 for a while. A lot of people might know of 296 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:40.320 Yukaia because the People's Temple was located there. Mark Raymond 297 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:43.919 actually interviewed Jim Jones and a lot of people associated 298 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.519 with the People's Temple while he was a journalist for 299 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.720 the Ukaia Daily Journal, which is pretty crazy. I was 300 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.000 very surprised to find that. I was like, I just 301 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:55.039 want to see what this guy's journalism career is like 302 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.759 and write a base. 303 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.120 On Harvey Milk as well, which for those who want 304 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.320 to where Harvey Milk was super clicked up with Jim 305 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:02.080 Jones two. 306 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.519 Oh yeah for sure and his brother Steve I believe 307 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:08.759 probably knew Harvey Milk. I know that he was the 308 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.320 treasurer for the Harvey Milk Gay Democratic Club I believe 309 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.960 it was called, So odds are that he probably knew 310 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.000 Harvey Milk. Steve Raymond was pretty like linked up with 311 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.799 pretty influential gay activists at the time, so I wouldn't 312 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:23.519 be surprised if he actually made Harvey Milk's acquaintance himself. 313 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.519 So there's possible points of connection to Jim Jones for 314 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:27.840 both of the Raymond brothers. 315 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:30.720 Actually, yeah, I did want to while we're talking about 316 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.159 the Raymond family, I did kind of want to back up. 317 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.440 I've seen commonalities and I obviously I feel like maybe 318 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:38.399 I'm just scratching a little bit. I mean, there's there 319 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.039 were some themes in a Program to Kill that kind 320 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.039 of fit this. And I know you talked about the 321 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.759 Huerman case written not too long ago on William Ramsey Show, 322 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.679 and they're some of the newer stuff that came out. 323 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:53.440 As we're finding out, I guess it's not even newer, 324 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.480 it's just people are just now catching on to this detail. 325 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.279 Is that there seems to be a generational thing going 326 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:04.319 or a fit millial SRA sort of related things or 327 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.640 kid stuff going on. 328 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:08.559 Uh. 329 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.119 And there is a religious element too, which I thought 330 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:14.720 was bizarre, both of which were of some sort of 331 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.359 form of Christian supposedly they purport to. I forget the 332 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.759 specifics of the denomination, but it just i'd be remiss 333 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.440 to not point out the parallel and just kind of 334 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:27.880 get your thoughts, because I mean I do. I vaguely 335 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:30.279 recall there were other situations and Program to Kill with 336 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.200 similar elements too, with some of the serial killers and 337 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.640 stuff and the the way they were raised. It just 338 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:41.119 seems to be a bizarre commonality. I'm noticing although it 339 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.559 is a week, it's a week, it's a week. What's 340 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:48.079 the word indicator? But yeah, no, I know what you mean. 341 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.160 I also think that a lot of these people's like 342 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:57.079 degeneracies and proclivities are typically incubated and childhood, and sometimes 343 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:01.000 that's like childhood abuse. Sometimes that's due to something perhaps larger, 344 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.079 like organized ritual abuse, and then they go on to 345 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:08.480 be part of that organization or perpetrate similar crimes. But 346 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.920 as for Fern Raymond, the Reverend, I have not been 347 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:17.319 able to find anything that implicates him in anything like this. 348 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.200 That's not to say that he didn't, but I also 349 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:23.559 haven't found anything that confirms that I didn't know. I 350 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.279 do know that he was involved with various youth organizations, 351 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:29.920 but you know, I don't have any like dispositive information 352 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:33.799 that suggests that. But as to the fireman case specifically, yeah, 353 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.559 you know, working in John Ray's office, we found at 354 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:43.480 the office that Rex Hoireman's first cousin was a Satanic 355 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.119 ritual abuser. He was also a Lutheran pastor in Camelis, 356 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.359 New York. So, yeah, there are a lot of these 357 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.400 types of like weird family connections, and you know, the 358 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.519 more we talk about this, like some of these like 359 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.519 strange family relations will certainly come into play. One of 360 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.640 the Raymonds relatives was associated with Robert Maxwell as well. 361 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.680 And Steve Raymond and his book, his horribly bizarre and 362 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:12.039 disgusting book, The Poison River credits debt Live Raymond, the 363 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.039 Robert Maxwell and Pergamon Press associate with sort of like 364 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.559 helping broker his release or at least putting in a 365 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:19.920 good word for him in Washington. 366 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:24.440 Okay, sorry, it took you a little bit off off 367 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.640 the target there, but yeah, I just it is a 368 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.759 weird commonality you see every once in a while. I 369 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:32.480 think it's just just something there. I think it's a 370 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.640 I don't know. I just I guess maybe I'm seeing 371 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.920 something beyond the veil that I can't prove. But it 372 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.359 does seem weird, as if there's some sort of distortion 373 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.759 of beliefs going on behind the scenes. Like I don't know. Anyways, 374 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.559 let's let's keep it moving. We'll take this wherever you 375 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.200 want to go for because we were at the family 376 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:52.799 I took a side prink you a little bit. 377 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:54.720 No, Well, actually you have a point there, and this 378 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:58.359 is something that's been bothering me. But throughout Steve Raymond's life, 379 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.920 he's the brother of Mark and he's who's affiliated with 380 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:05.839 NAMBLA rather publicly at every point it seems like his mother, 381 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.839 Ruth is right there with him, even though he's doing 382 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:13.880 all these like horrible, degenerate, profligate, illegal things, you know, 383 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.119 in those I posted this on Twitter, but you know, 384 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.880 Steve Raymond is working with these like Mexican orphanages, and 385 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.279 at one point he posts like what seems to be 386 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.079 like an advertisement for a child in a local paper, 387 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.240 and it's his mother who's posting it with him. And 388 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.319 then later when Steve Raymond is running his travel business 389 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.240 where he has like a Thai callboy ring and is 390 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:41.279 you know, basically doing like sex tourism in Thailand with children, 391 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:45.079 it's his mother who's helping him run tourist service unlimited, 392 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.799 and she's in the advertisements in the newspaper with Steve 393 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.200 Raymond listing these things. And it's his mother again who 394 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.440 helps try to get him out of prison in Bangkok. 395 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.279 So you know, there seems to be a family affair. 396 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:57.799 I don't think my parents would help me if I 397 00:20:58.359 --> 00:20:59.960 were arrested on similar charges. 398 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.480 No, no, but uh, maybe if there was some sort 399 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.880 of weird you know, uh generational cult aspect or something 400 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:10.519 going on, that might change things a little bit. Yeah, 401 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:13.880