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Seetail Loop to Canadian. 25 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.519 You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking 26 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:19.640 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:27.000 written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 28 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.719 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:35.000 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 30 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.879 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 31 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:53.239 Good Evening. San Francisco, a city founded in part by criminals, 32 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.439 was once one of the most dangerous cities in America. 33 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.920 It's barbary coast was called a unique fromminal district that 34 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:04.239 was the scene of more viciousness and depravity, but it 35 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:08.080 possessed more glamour than any other area on the American continent. 36 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:13.439 San Francisco Notorious brings back the glamorous, depravity and noir 37 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.840 atmosphere that made it the premier location for murder thrillers 38 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:22.800 like the Maltese Falcon, Vertigo and Zodiac. This book contains 39 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.479 more than twenty compelling tales of serial killers, deadly women, 40 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:31.960 con men, masters of escape, and unsolved mysteries. San Franciscan 41 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:35.800 criminals were as colorful as the city they inhabited. Take 42 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:39.879 William Thornson, a murderous millionaire who hid the nation's largest 43 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:44.560 private armory in his Specific Heights mansion. Then there's Isabella Martin, 44 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.479 the murderous Queen of Grudges, who tried to poison an 45 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:53.199 entire town. Or Ethan McNabb and Lloyd Samsel, the yacht 46 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.759 bandits who used a luxurious sloop as a getaway vehicle 47 00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:00.639 for their dozens of bank robberies. Most of these unusual 48 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:04.120 cases are largely unknown and have never appeared in book form. 49 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:08.319 Included our cases that are still mysteries today, including the 50 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:11.319 mysterious tale of the Zodiac Killer, complete with a new 51 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:15.080 analysis and a startling new theory on the murder. The 52 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:18.400 book that we're featuring this evening is Notorious San Francisco, 53 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:22.759 True Tales of Crime, murder and Passion, with my special 54 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:26.599 guest journalist and author Paul Drexler. Welcome to the program, 55 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:28.599 and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. 56 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:32.759 Paul Drexler, huh, yes, thank you very much. 57 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:33.759 It's nice to be here. 58 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:38.520 Thank you very much for joining us. And incredible collection 59 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:42.800 this certainly is. Now. Tell our audience a little bit 60 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:45.719 about your background and true crime and how you came 61 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:48.000 to write Notorious San Francisco. 62 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.400 Oh, sure. I have been writing about true crime for 63 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.080 a long time, and I came to San Francisco in 64 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:59.439 nineteen eighty four, and through one of my pieces, I 65 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:03.159 got to be good friends with Kevin Mullen, who was 66 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:06.319 the ex Deputy police chief of San Francisco, and he 67 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.439 wrote a number of books and he had been collecting 68 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:13.120 these things for decades. Uh. We collaborated on a number 69 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:16.879 of things. He probably knew more about San Francisco crime 70 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:23.439 than anyone else. And I have inherited his collection and 71 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:26.560 his files, which has been a big help in terms of, 72 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:30.600 you know, finding cases. And I've been doing a lot 73 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.480 of interviewing of ex cops and things like that. So basically, 74 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:37.600 the Bay Area has been my main area of focus. 75 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.959 And it's a great uh, it's a great area to 76 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.160 collect interesting crimes. 77 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:48.720 Right now, let's get right into the collection here with 78 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.199 a story about Earl Nelson. And you talk about the 79 00:04:54.240 --> 00:05:00.600 background of Earl Nelson. He born and eight young twenty seven. 80 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.160 Tell us about this as you write it. You talk 81 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:08.680 about there couldn't be a more apt recipe for basically 82 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.560 for disaster. You say he was born in eighteen ninety seven. 83 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:13.920 Tell us about his mother and his father and his 84 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.079 earliest upbringing. 85 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:19.399 Sure well, his mother died of syphilis when he was 86 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:24.040 ten months old. A few months later, his father also 87 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:26.720 died of the same disease, and you know, in terms 88 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:31.480 of creating a serial killer or a psychopath, veneeral disease 89 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:34.800 can definitely add to that. Then he lived with his 90 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:39.560 grandmother and aunt, and they were very strict Pentecostal Christians 91 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.360 and they were always, you know, railing about the evils 92 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:48.800 of sex. And Earl was kind of a psychotic prodigy. 93 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:51.560 He was expelled from primary school at the age of seven, 94 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:56.160 and he had this kind of strange behavior. He would 95 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.920 talk to invisible people. He would quote Bible packet passive 96 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:03.199 is about the Great Beast, and then he would also 97 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:08.240 peek at his cousin Rachel, whilst het dressed. Now he developed. 98 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:11.519 He wasn't the big man, but he had large hands 99 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.920 and tremendous upper body strains. In fact, he could walk 100 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:19.560 on his hand for blocks. Now, when he was ten, 101 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.680 he was hit and dragged by a street car, which 102 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:25.279 cracked his skull and put him in a coma. A 103 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:29.680 doctor didn't think he'd survived. And now that's another surprisingly 104 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:34.439 high percentage of psychopaths have experienced serious head injuries as 105 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:40.079 they were growing up. So he left school at fourteen. 106 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:46.439 There are a number of manual jobs. He also acquired 107 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:51.839 veneerial disease in the brothels of the Barbara Coast. And 108 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:55.279 by nineteen he had been in San Quentin, he'd been 109 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.199 in the Navy, and he'd been in Napa State Mental 110 00:06:58.199 --> 00:07:05.360 Hospital and Napa State he kept escaping and then he'd 111 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:08.399 go back to that estate, and finally the doctors there 112 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:11.800 just threw up their hands. He hadn't improved at all, 113 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:15.800 but they said, oh, he's better, and they just you know, 114 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:22.480 let him go. And they said he was improved. And 115 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:24.480 you know, he spent the rest of his life proving 116 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:25.800 his doctor's wrong. 117 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:31.839 Right you write that. In nineteen twenty five they finally 118 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.360 discharge him, saying he was, as you write, improved for 119 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:40.360 lack of better a better prognosis, they said he was improved. 120 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:45.920 Now in nineteen twenty six, February twentieth, a woman named 121 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.560 Clara Newman is sixty years old. And you right as 122 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:52.560 well that after he got out of this prison pardon me, 123 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:57.360 out of the hospital, he married, you know, strangely enough, 124 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.439 he married this woman that was fifty eight years old. 125 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:03.720 This tentacles Undel Spinster. He had these unusual sexual desires 126 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:08.920 or needs. She was not interested. He left that relationship. 127 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:12.399 Now we get to February twenty sixth, the twentieth, nineteen 128 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:18.120 twenty six Tell us what happens where this Earl Nelson 129 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:21.600 is in that he's in a position to meet Clara Newman. 130 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:28.800 Sure well, there was a landlady named Clara Newman who 131 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:35.679 was showing her attic apartment at her house, and he 132 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:41.240 came in to look at the place. Now, two hours later, 133 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:47.000 her nephew came back and found her strangled and violated 134 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:54.320 body in the basement near the oil furnace. And also 135 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:59.960 a few weeks later, the same thing happened to Laura, 136 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.000 who was a sixty five year old landlady in San Jose, 137 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.759 and both of the in both of the cases, the 138 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.879 women were sexually attacked after death. So Earl was an 139 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:17.919 acophiliac and this was these were the these killing started 140 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:24.960 what ended up being a nationwide panic, and he was 141 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:30.360 at known as the Strangler at this point and by 142 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:34.759 a few weeks later he killed his third person on 143 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:39.639 Dolores Street in San Francisco, and they started to see 144 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:42.840 the headlines whether they say that San Francisco police have 145 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:45.039 had no one like him to contend with in the 146 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:51.080 whole history of the city. So he strangled another woman 147 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:54.639 in Santa Barbara a few weeks later and took her jewelry, 148 00:09:55.639 --> 00:10:00.279 and you know, more descriptions of him surfaced. I mean, 149 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.960 people saw him, but no one was really you know, 150 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:06.600 looking carefully, and they knew that, you know, he was 151 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:09.559 kind of average size. He had his watery blue eyes, 152 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:14.759 a piercing stare, and what they called a ghastly smile 153 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:18.759 on his face. And the newspapers call him the dark 154 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:20.440 strangler or the dark fiend. 155 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:25.759 At this time, you write about a break in the 156 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:29.720 case in August and again this yes here has gripped 157 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:32.879 his community. And then they find a person named Philip Brown. 158 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.840 They pick him up as a vagrant in Needles, California. 159 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.279 What happens and why do they think this is a 160 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:39.039 break in the case. 161 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:42.080 Well, they think it's a break in the case. And 162 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:46.240 you know, it's really hard when the serial killer is 163 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.799 killing people he doesn't know and just sort of appears 164 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:54.120 and disappears. But they had a witness this time, this 165 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:59.120 guy William Frainey, who was a fireman, and he identified 166 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:09.480 as a strangler as that he saw him attack this woman, 167 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:13.720 Missus Russell. It was a kind of unusual situation because 168 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:17.799 he saw the attack on Missus Russell as he peeked 169 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:24.480 through a keyhole in the door. So to reproduce those conditions, 170 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:28.960 they put Brown in a room and they had Frainey 171 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.039 peer through the keyhole and that's how he identified Brown. 172 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.799 And you know, Brown had a history of epilepsy and attacks. 173 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.480 The police chief and district attorney were convinced they had 174 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:45.679 the right guy, but the guy did not meet the 175 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:49.440 physical characteristics. And then more and more they talked to him, 176 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.840 the more they wondered about his mental condition. As the 177 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:57.120 days went on, his whole story unraveled and he was 178 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:01.759 sent to a mental hospital. And you know, the search continued, 179 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:07.159 and it became anyone who moved into town or had 180 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:10.799 a dark complexion, was from another country, who was just unknown, 181 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:15.559 was automatically a suspect. A few weeks later in Santa Cruz, 182 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:19.919 they arrested this stocky foreigner and they were the lynch 183 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:22.919 mob was threatening him and told Martin Newman, who was 184 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:25.320 the guy who was the nephew of the first woman 185 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.080 killed came down and said, no, that's not the guy. 186 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:35.080 So these continued. Nelson returned to San Francisco. He strangled 187 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:39.360 this woman who had a house for sale, and he 188 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.720 left her naked body under the bed. The next day though, 189 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.279 there was another woman, missus Murray, who was eight months pregnant, 190 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:57.000 was approached by him, and there's something about him that 191 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:00.960 put her at just made her nerve. So this is also, 192 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:03.039 you know, a good thing to remember that if you 193 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.960 have a bad feeling about someone, listen to it. So 194 00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:08.279 the whole time she was showing him through the house 195 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.639 and he was asking all kinds of questions about its construction, 196 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:15.240 but she stayed six to eight feet away from him. 197 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:17.879 And then finally he was going to leave, she turned 198 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:21.039 to open the door and he attacked her, and she 199 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.320 fought back. She raked her nails against his face and 200 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:27.799 made it to the street. He fled, but she was 201 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:30.240 able to give the police a very, you know, clear 202 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:34.559 description of him. And you know, one of the reasons 203 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.200 that he was asking all about the house. Part of 204 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:42.200 his method of operating was he would start asking about 205 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.000 the house so he could get the landlady downstairs away 206 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.840 from anyone else. You know, he'd ask about the furnace 207 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:50.919 of this and that, and once he got her into 208 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:54.799 the furnace room, that was it. That's when he'd kill her. 209 00:13:57.399 --> 00:14:03.000 You right about and sorry, shoot me? So are you're 210 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.799 writing about them? You read about the media being very 211 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.440 confident once they had that description. Oh yeah, this woman 212 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:12.679 that escaped his clutches. 213 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:18.720 The San Francisco Chronicle. Not one of their better predictions. 214 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.679 They they said, description of strangler now complete arrest certain 215 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:26.679 they were, let's say it was overly optimistic. It took 216 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.360 about fifteen more bodies and a year and a half 217 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:34.679 for this to happen. And then he started going east. 218 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:41.159 Where did he go? You talk about Oregon and Washington, Yeah, 219 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:41.799 was the. 220 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:44.080 They went to our killing and killed a woman in 221 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:48.000 the city, I'm sorry. And then he started going east. 222 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:51.600 He killed a woman in Council Bluffs, Iowa. He killed 223 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.879 a woman in Kansas City, and then the next day 224 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.720 he killed and raped a woman and her eight month 225 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:03.399 old son. Then he disappeared again, and by this time 226 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.399 the press had come up with a new name for him, 227 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:09.399 which was the gorilla killer, because he had very large 228 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.679 hands and kind of his posture was kind of ape like, 229 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:17.960 and he was in all the newspapers. In fact, in Philadelphia, 230 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.840 where he also struck, they featured a three page, you know, 231 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:28.240 column entitled how to escape from the Strangler with photos, 232 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:32.440 you know, instead of showing you what to do. Then 233 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:35.480 he started going west. He went to Buffalo, killed someone, 234 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.240 killed two women in destroyed, and he killed a woman 235 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:45.279 in Chicago. And by this time police were after him 236 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.840 everywhere he you know, remember that pretty much every city 237 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:51.600 he did this there would be this huge search of 238 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:54.440 the entire a populace. But by this time it was 239 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.279 getting pretty hot for him, so he decided to go 240 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:58.960 into Canada when she did. 241 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:04.399 Now you write about June fifth, You write about June fifth, 242 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:09.200 because this acceleration, his frenzy is killing frenzy. May thirtieth, 243 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:13.519 June first, June third, now June fifth. He hitchhikes to Winnipeg, Canada, 244 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:16.399 and as you're right, it's the third largest city in 245 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:20.039 Canada at that time, gets a job as a construction laborer. 246 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.159 What's his alias? And again, what does he do once 247 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:26.919 he's in another country and on the run from the 248 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.200 US officials. 249 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:32.039 Sure, he had a number of bailisas this one was 250 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.720 Roger Wilson. And the other thing to remember is that 251 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.639 he knew the Bible, and he posed, that's a very 252 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.360 religious man. And in fact he told this woman, I 253 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:47.240 want quiet surroundings where I can of reflect. A man 254 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.320 with Christ in his heart need to worry about nothing else. 255 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:54.200 She was very impressed. Missus August killed with his piety. 256 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:59.399 But two days later, this fourteen year old girl who 257 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.720 was telling art artificial flowers on the street disappeared. The 258 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.519 next day, Nelson went to another rooming house and he 259 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.640 asked for a room. He said he didn't have any money, 260 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.240 but that he'd do odd jobs to pay. Now. When 261 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.079 her husband came back, she was missing. Emily was missing, 262 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.680 the landlady, and a few hours later he discovered her 263 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:27.240 body underneath their bed. And this was really when police 264 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:32.160 really started mobilizing. They realized that he was in the 265 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:39.279 city and they knew more about him, so they they 266 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:44.799 started checking every boarding house and when they reached Missus Hall, 267 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:48.240 she described her tenant, Roger Wilson as a short, dark 268 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.160 religious man, and they searched his room and found the 269 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:57.640 decaying body of Lowell Cowan under his bed. So this 270 00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.759 really kind of exploded everything. 271 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.039 You talk about the national response in Canada to this, 272 00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:09.599 and the news of this broadcast throughout the country. But 273 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:13.160 you write about that the strangler heads west to the 274 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.960 capital of the neighboring province, which is Regina, and he 275 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:21.920 rents a room from Missus Rowe. What does he do 276 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.720 in Regina while authorities still think he's somewhere in Winnipeg 277 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:28.039 and they're looking everywhere. 278 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.680 Yeah, yeah, so, I mean it's a big country, so 279 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:33.599 he's moving around. 280 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:33.799 Well. 281 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:37.039 Missus Rowe had a nine year old daughter and the 282 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.680 next morning he bought her an ice cream cone and 283 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:43.880 he tried to lure her into going into the side 284 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:49.359 street with him, and she made definitely the greatest decision 285 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.200 of her life by refusing to do that. Obviously that 286 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:56.720 did save her life. But by this time he had 287 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.920 been tracked into Regina and searchers were pouring into the city. 288 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.960 So he went back to Manitoba and he headed south. 289 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.359 They figured that he was going to head back to 290 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:10.519 the United States and try to get a trained. 291 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:16.759 So he's sighted about forty miles north of the border 292 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:22.880 by a constable. And you described that it's just a 293 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.400 little small town and he's alerted that there's a stranger 294 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:29.640 in town. What happens in this exchange between this constable 295 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:30.599 and Earl Nelson. 296 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.440 Yeah, So this constable there was this guy, Constable Gray, 297 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.799 of Killarney, which is a town of a thousand, very 298 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.799 close to the border, and there was a train station 299 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:47.759 in the town. So Constable Gray talked to this guy 300 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:52.359 who gave his name as Virgil Wilson. He agreed to 301 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:54.599 come to the police station, and he was so relaxed 302 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.640 that Gray could hardly believe he was the wanted man. 303 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:01.400 But Gray took away his belt, shoes, it socks and 304 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.640 locked them in the cell and handcuffed him to the bars. 305 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:09.000 And then he went to the next room to get 306 00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:13.319 a phone and he called Inspector Smith was in Winnipeg, 307 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.839 was heading was the overall head of the search. He 308 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:22.599 called Wilson and he told him the name is Alias, 309 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.799 and Wilson said, don't let him out of your sight. 310 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.440 I'll be there tomorrow morning. And Inspector Smith assembled fifty 311 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.960 police to go with him on a special train. So 312 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.200 when Gray gets back, he found the cell door open 313 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.400 and handcuffed dangling from the bar. Nelson had picked the 314 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:43.720 locks with a mail file that he found on the floor. 315 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.359 So you know, the town was gripped by panic. Most 316 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.039 of the women and children spent the night in a church, 317 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.079 guarded by dozens of armed men. It was the five 318 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:59.119 hundred men posse going from house to house. But he 319 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.720 spent a peaceful night hidden in the loft of a 320 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:06.319 farmist barn just a block from the police station. Incredible 321 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:08.359 and yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. 322 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:13.599 So the next morning you say that they had been 323 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:17.119 staking out train stations because they felt that that's the 324 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:19.599 way he would get back into the US. Where they 325 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.440 correct and what happens at this train station the next morning? 326 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:27.119 Okay, Well, you know, he gets out of his hiding 327 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.400 place and he makes a break for the train station 328 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.079 and the train is pulling into town and a mob 329 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:38.640 of people see him. They chase him, a guy grabbed him, 330 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.039 but he broke free. The train doors opened and he 331 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:46.480 ran in. Unfortunately for him, the train was the train 332 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:50.519 commandeered by Inspector Smith. There were fifty police who poured 333 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.799 out of the train and they engulfed him. They took 334 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:56.880 him back on the train and headed back to Winnipeg. 335 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.440 And you know, there was a crowd that would very 336 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.880 much have liked to Lynchion. But they did get back 337 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:13.319 to Winnipeg and after some question he admitted that he 338 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.039 was Earl Nelson. 339 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.920 You read about the extraordinary search for the Dark Strangler. 340 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:24.680 You say it occupied more police in more cities than 341 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.400 any other case in history. San Francisco, San Jose, Portland, 342 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:34.400 Kansas City, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, and then Winnipeg. What was 343 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:39.599 his fate in nineteen twenty eight in Winnipeg, what was 344 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:40.119 his Oh? 345 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:45.559 Well, they finally got him and he was hung in 346 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:51.440 Winnipeg after killing about twenty three women, most of them landladies. 347 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:56.119 So I would say after that, the land ladies all 348 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:58.519 over the Western hemisphere were very grateful. 349 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:06.960 Absolutely absolutely. Now let's talk about another story from this collection, 350 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:12.759 The Grandma from Hell and yeahs opened with this with 351 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:17.319 the detective John Kaufman investigating the experiance of a Santa 352 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:23.599 Rosa motel owner. Mildred Arnason tell us about John Kaufman's 353 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:27.839 encounter with the Grandma from Hell, iyber Kroger. 354 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.599 Yeah, Yeah, iber Kroger was. I would call her a 355 00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:39.839 psychopaths psychopath. She was, you know, she looked very unsuspicious. 356 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:44.039 She was sort of middle age, short very dowdy clothes, 357 00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.839 squint In and I. But she loved to talk. There's 358 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.519 this cascading stream of words and sentences. She talked about 359 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.319 a psychic, she's very into spiritualism. She talked about how 360 00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.359 good she was a business, and also her health. She 361 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.839 was always thing wrong with her. At this time, she 362 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.519 was talking about he was in a bus accident in 363 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:10.839 San Francisco and she was crippled. You know, So if 364 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.079 you talk to her, you think, you know, here's this 365 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.359 woman practically on her left legs, and she'd say these 366 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:21.880 crazy things, but you know, you sort of think she 367 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:27.759 was a harmless person. It's like, you know, the scariest movies, 368 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:30.519 at least that I've seen, are the ones that move 369 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.480 all of a sudden, everything's normal, and then the next minute, 370 00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:37.400 your uncle Tom, who seems like such a nice guy's 371 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.319 growing fangs, you know. And this was Iva Kroger. You know, 372 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:45.000 she'd be very sweet, and then the next minute she's 373 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:47.440 got a gun pointing at your heart and she's threatening 374 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.319 your life, and you know that she means it. So 375 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:55.079 Coffin talks to her. He was investigating the disappearance of 376 00:24:55.160 --> 00:25:03.039 a motel owner in Santa Rosa, and this woman, Mildred Armsen. 377 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.440 She was a real estate investor who owned this motor 378 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:10.960 home called the Rose City Motorhome with her ex husband, 379 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.920 and Mildredy was a Rosicrucians and she told her family 380 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.680 that she was going to South America with another spiritualist 381 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:23.920 named Ivy Long. So when Kaufman went to the motel, 382 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:30.000 he found iv Along was running it, and she denied 383 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:32.440 that she was ever going to accompany Mildred. She said 384 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:38.119 that Mildred somewhere in South America, and you know, she 385 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.039 claimed to be a psychic. He was suspicious, but she 386 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.839 showed the deed that transferred the motel and it was genuine. 387 00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:48.920 So there was nothing much to do at that time. 388 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:54.240 But Mildred hadn't had a family of sisters and brothers, 389 00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:56.960 and they kept calling police and they kept they were 390 00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:02.359 very suspicious. They got a letter supposedly from Mildred that 391 00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:06.839 that appeared to them to be like a phony. And 392 00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:15.119 I've a her, Jay, who was Mildred's husband, disappeared a 393 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.640 few months later, so and Iva had this wild story 394 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:24.759 about where he went. And they continued to investigate, but 395 00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:33.440 they really couldn't do much until I've had a dispute 396 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:39.720 with a guy trying to collect an overdue bill. And 397 00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:42.680 this this really revealed a lot about here he was. 398 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:47.839 He was a guy who sold water softening sistence, and 399 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:53.599 she convinced him to loan her money, and finally he 400 00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.960 asked for his money back, and she took him on 401 00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:00.920