WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.799 Today, we have two cold cases that may be short 2 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:06.440 on details, but both leave us with plenty of questions. 3 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:10.320 In the first case, during a routine patrol, a sheriff's 4 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.519 deputy this is a woman camp between Highway ninety six 5 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:17.719 and the Klamath River. He stopped just to verify everything 6 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:20.519 was okay, and the woman confirmed she was fine. The 7 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:23.920 following day she would be gone, and there hasn't been 8 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:29.120 any information since. In the second, a drive around the 9 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:32.640 lake seemed innocent enough, but many people believe this drive 10 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:36.000 ended in murder, but without any evidence, this case, too 11 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:40.640 remains open. I'm Danielle, I'm Megan, and this is off 12 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:52.560 the trails. 13 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:55.359 Did you mean to say Klamath River? 14 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:56.799 Probably? 15 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.759 I was also just about to say the half the 16 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:01.600 things I said are not the things I wrote. 17 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.719 Oh okay, so we're off to a good start. Friends, 18 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:07.719 all right. 19 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:12.079 The only business is if you guys like the show 20 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:14.519 or I guess even if you don't, we'd love for 21 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:17.120 you to leave us a rating or a review. 22 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:22.359 Wherever you get your podcasts, Yeah, please do, especially on 23 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:25.359 Spotify where we can respond to them. Is always nice. 24 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:30.000 But if you listen on Apple, of course, do it there. 25 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.159 If you don't mind. Apple can be brutal those reviews, 26 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:38.040 and there's nothing we can All we can do is 27 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:43.400 just helplessly look at them with everyone. We can't even engage. 28 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.400 All right, So, like I mentioned, both of these stories 29 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:53.040 are kind of scant on details, which is a bummer. 30 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.560 But I think that these cases are still worth sharing 31 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:01.200 because they are still open cases, and just because all 32 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:07.159 of the information is not available or public, or there 33 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:10.039 may just not be the information, we still like to 34 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:15.759 share this. On February twenty eighth, twenty fourteen, twenty seven 35 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:20.039 year old Grace Sabo was the woman at the campsite. 36 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:25.680 She was along the skihan Bar River access and that 37 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:31.280 is a free Forest Service camp area along the river 38 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:37.439 and that's along Highway six ninety six in Siskiyou County, California. 39 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:42.080 The area includes a good size like wooded area, has picnics, 40 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:45.560 and several unmarked campsites. 41 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:47.439 So very basic. 42 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:50.520 From what I read, this would make a good pit 43 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:51.759 stop location. 44 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.039 What are you smiling at because he just said it 45 00:02:56.120 --> 00:03:03.560 has picnics. It has picnics, okay, offers picnics. I imagine 46 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:04.960 it's tables. 47 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.199 But I like the idea of a campground just saying, 48 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:10.719 come one, come all, to our picnics. 49 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:14.199 I would be more apt to go to a campground 50 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:19.719 that has pre made picnics, to be honest, but yes, 51 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:25.719 you're right, picnic tables. This is more of a pit 52 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:32.360 stop destination than a destination itself, because there's no potable water, 53 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:38.479 there's no showers, there's no trash cans, so pretty basic. 54 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:42.759 I did see that there are porta potties seasonally, so 55 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:48.080 kind of just a side of the road pull off. 56 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:53.360 I think a lot of people stay here because it 57 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.520 has good access to the river and it's a good 58 00:03:56.599 --> 00:04:00.680 launch point for people who are rafting or kayaking things 59 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:03.520 of that nature. So it's really just hey, we're getting 60 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.800 out on the river tomorrow, let's get out early. 61 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:08.840 You'll stay here the night and move on. 62 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:14.400 When the sheriff's deputy first encountered Grace, she was at 63 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:19.079 a campsite alone, but she indicated she didn't need any help, 64 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:23.519 that thing was wrong, And what I don't know is 65 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.600 what prompted the deputy to check in with her originally. 66 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.480 Since this is a known camping area, it's not like 67 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:35.319 she was camped out somewhere like a rest stop or 68 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:37.439 just this side of the highway. This is somewhere where 69 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:43.839 people frequently camp it. I don't know if because of 70 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:47.079 the time of the year typically people are not camping there. 71 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:52.800 Obviously we're in almost March, very end of February, so 72 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.560 this time of year, average temps are like forty four degrees, 73 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:01.319 so not ideal camping whether for most people at least 74 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:07.560 as cold it is. Some sources indicate that after they 75 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:09.959 had that interaction, the deputy planned to go back and 76 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:12.279 check on her on Saturday, which would have been the 77 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:13.000 following day. 78 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:15.839 There were sources. 79 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:23.000 That mentioned an abandoned vehicle which belonged to Grace. None 80 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:25.480 of the sources said if the car was in a 81 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:29.160 weird spot which caught the deputy's eye, or if it 82 00:05:29.240 --> 00:05:32.040 was just park next to wherever she was set up. 83 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:38.720 There weren't a lot of details on what made this 84 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:43.639 vehicle abandoned since its owner and driver were nearby. To me, 85 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:47.639 that's not abandoned, that's just parked. Yeah, I feel like 86 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:51.720 there had to be more to that setup, but it 87 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:52.959 was not available information. 88 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:55.079 The following day, which was March. 89 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:57.800 First, just after eight point thirty in the morning, that 90 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:03.920 same deputy drove by and noticed Grace's car was still there, 91 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:07.600 but this time he didn't see her around. According to 92 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:12.279 a Facebook post from the Sheriff's Department, the deputy conducted 93 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:17.079 a welfare check but could not locate Missabo. A search 94 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.399 of the immediate area led to the deputy to believe 95 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:24.800 that Missabo was endangered or injured. Whatever the deputy saw 96 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:30.040 that felt that he felt indicated Grace was injured or 97 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:35.000 in danger was not specified in this post or any 98 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:42.160 subsequent articles or posts that I could find at all interesting. 99 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:46.319 I wonder why they wouldn't share, even just like a 100 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:47.959 vague detail about it. 101 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:54.040 Right there were sources that said there were fresh footprints 102 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:58.600 seen heading down to the river, but none returning, But 103 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:06.000 that sounded like a separate discovery than whatever this officer 104 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:10.079 originally saw that gave him concern. A more extensive search 105 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:15.079 got underway pretty quickly. Search crews combed miles of river 106 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.839 bank and the surrounding land. Boats equipped with underwater cameras 107 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:23.560 were deployed on the river, and California Highway Patrol did 108 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:29.600 several flyovers. Ground teams and patrol vehicles were stationed at 109 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:35.720 different river access points down river. Unfortunately, within the first 110 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:40.120 couple of days of the search. There was some I 111 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:43.959 was gonna say, like negative weather, but negative in the 112 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.519 respect of trying to be outside searching. 113 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:51.759 But rain is not a negative situation overall. Negative weather 114 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:55.360 just not conducive to search efforts. 115 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:59.480 Right because I actually love cloudy, rainy days, so that's 116 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:02.439 a positive for me, but not if I were attempting 117 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:03.319 to locate someone. 118 00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:05.360 Yeah, so all that. 119 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:10.199 Rain just made the river choppy and the conditions grounded helicopters. 120 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:13.800 Grazel was originally from Oakland, California, but she had been 121 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:18.920 living in Portland, Oregon for at least the previous several years. 122 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:22.920 She had a house there, she had a roommate, she 123 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:26.160 owned her own cleaning business, so she was very well 124 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.800 established in Portland. But what she was doing camped out 125 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:34.159 along the river is a question we don't know the 126 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:34.679 answer to. 127 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:40.440 Investigated family or friends who spoke on any of this. 128 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:44.159 So I thought it was odd that there wasn't a 129 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:48.320 lot of statements, or really any statements from her family 130 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:53.759 or friends. There was one article that in the Google 131 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:57.559 preview was like, oh, her parents and boyfriend. So I 132 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:02.120 went to check that article and the link was actually broken, 133 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:06.279 like it did not work. So that was the only 134 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:12.120 reference to any family or friends that I found in 135 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:15.639 any article I looked at. There's not really a lot 136 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.320 of coverage of this case, so I feel like I 137 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:22.519 looked at pretty much every article that is available on 138 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.399 the internet and attempted to view some that were no 139 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.639 longer available. But from that article, it sounds like her 140 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:34.080 parents did come down to present for search, and it 141 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:36.840 sounds like she did have a boyfriend, but. 142 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:39.240 There was no. 143 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.320 Information on why they thought that she was in the area. 144 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:48.720 Yeah, because especially if she owned that business. I don't 145 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.279 know if it was just just her and it was 146 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.159 her business, or if she had employees, but if there 147 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:59.759 was anyone who could speak to her recent behavior leading 148 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:02.320 up to this camping trip, like if it seemed like 149 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:05.679 she was in a weird headspace or if everything seemed normal, 150 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.639 Is this something that she would do that she had 151 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:11.679 done previously where she just liked to disconnect for a 152 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:16.240 little bit, go to a quieter campground. You know, some 153 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:24.320 people want those more private kind of camping experiences as 154 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:30.320 opposed to going to a more well known or populated campground, 155 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:32.440 even if it has better amenities there. 156 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.919 Right, I just found it interesting, you know, because there 157 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.080 are plenty of cases we've covered, and plenty of people 158 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:43.440 we know in person who live alone and they aren't 159 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:47.799 detailing their every day move They're not giving itinerary of 160 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:49.840 what they're doing for the weekend or the day. And 161 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:55.840 that's fine, but typically if you live with someone, whether 162 00:10:55.879 --> 00:11:00.720 it's a roommate or a friend or family, I think 163 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:03.960 most people are saying to some extent, even if not 164 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.559 giving a lot of detail, like Hey, I'm doing XYZ 165 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:12.279 this weekend, I'll be back on Monday or Sunday or 166 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:12.799 whatever it. 167 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:17.279 May be, especially like if you have a boyfriend. I mean, 168 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:23.960 everyone's relationship dynamics are different, but I think if you're 169 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:29.840 dating someone, you typically kind of give at least a 170 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:33.759 surface level idea of what your plans are for the weekend, 171 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:37.519 but we don't know like how serious or casual they were, 172 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.440 or Yeah, it's so hard when you don't know her 173 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.679 relationship with the people around her. 174 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:44.519 Right. 175 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:47.399 And the other thing is it was said she was 176 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:57.399 camped out, but there was no reference to having a campfire, 177 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.799 a setup, or a tent or any true equipment for 178 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:07.000 intended camping. So I also wonder if that's partly why 179 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.399 this sheriff's officer was concerned because maybe she was you know, 180 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.919 they say camped out, but not in the I'm intending 181 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:19.919 to camp here. It's more I'm situated here. 182 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:20.360 Do you know what I mean? 183 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:26.120 Yeah, the phrasing, And because it's at a campground, you're like, okay, well, 184 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.440 obviously she's intending to camp there. But there was no 185 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:39.519 reference to anything pertaining to camping, and everything just referenced 186 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:43.480 her vehicle. So I'm wondering if maybe it wasn't a 187 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:49.080 true camping setup, and that's what caused this officer to 188 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:50.840 check it in the first place and then kind of 189 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:52.600 want to follow up with her, just make sure things 190 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:58.080 were okay, because I wondered, was there's something wrong with 191 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:00.799 her vehicle? Had her car broken down and she was 192 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.039 just kind of hanging out here until she could either 193 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:06.840 get it towed or figure out what she was going 194 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:11.039 to do. But there was no reference to the vehicle 195 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:17.080 being disabled or anything wrong with it, so we don't 196 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:21.519 know for sure. Yeah, investigators said there was no evidence 197 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.559 to suggest that Grace had been abducted or that she 198 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:31.159 had been the victim of foul play, So I'm assuming 199 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:36.840 that leaves either she went into the water intentionally or 200 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:42.960 there was an accident. There wasn't any statements that I 201 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:48.279 saw that indicated that they felt strongly that this was 202 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.639 an accident or that this was intentional, just that there 203 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.639 was no evidence that there was a third party involved. 204 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:58.879 Which in situations where there is no. 205 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:03.200 Evidence saying there was no evidence that there was spouel play, 206 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:08.120 doesn't they rule out a whole lot to me, Yeah, 207 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:12.840 there's no evidence tells you we have no direction to 208 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:18.159 look in. It's just most scenarios are still on the table. 209 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:22.320 For this next case, we're staying in Sisko County, California, 210 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.360 But going back to two thousand and two, and I 211 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:30.600 think we've covered several cases or incidents that have taken 212 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:35.039 place in this particular county in California, and. 213 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.159 We will probably cover more cases in this area. 214 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:47.320 I think partly because the county sheriffs have a really 215 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:54.399 detailed cold case website. You know, typically states, a lot 216 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.039 of states I've seen have their own cold case website 217 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:01.879 or listing or portion of their state police departments website. 218 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:06.080 But this one is at the county level, and it's 219 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:14.440 pretty extensive, so compared to other Like, I don't want 220 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:19.240 to say one stop shop. But sites that have these 221 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:22.600 cases compiled, this one is pretty good. 222 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.039 That's helpful when they're able to have all of that 223 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:31.919 information consolidated, But it's also something that they see a 224 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:37.440 lot more than perhaps other places throughout the country, right. 225 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.600 Because I think I want to say, there's thirty six 226 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.360 cold cases listed on that site. 227 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:45.720 That's just a number I'm pulling out of my head. 228 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:50.399 But from other states sites I've looked at, some states 229 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:55.480 have that many alone. Obviously, the population and visitors to 230 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:59.720 this county is much higher than a lot of other places. 231 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:04.360 So oh, it's worth compiling everything and having it together. 232 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:04.799 I think. 233 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:05.919 Yeah. 234 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:10.559 Angela fulmer or Angie to everyone who knew and loved her. 235 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.639 In two thousand and two, she was thirty four years 236 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.759 old and a mother of five. So in December fifteenth, 237 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:21.480 she was out for a drive after a party with 238 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:26.080 a man named Thomas. Some sources called him a friend, 239 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:30.399 other sources called him her ex boyfriend. Others referred to 240 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:35.639 him as a current boyfriend. Immediately, I have suspicions about 241 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:43.039 this relationship that nobody seems to classify or everyone classifies it, 242 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.000 but it's all very different, yep, And it may have 243 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:49.440 been one of those relationships that were complicated. 244 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:50.320 Maybe they were. 245 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.600 On and off, maybe they had dated and then they 246 00:16:55.639 --> 00:17:00.440 stayed friends. I don't know, but just where every source 247 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:05.759 referred to them as some other connection, I'm like, this 248 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:07.039 is already kind of messy. 249 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.079 I think we most of us, if not all of us, 250 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.680 can say that we've been in one of those situations 251 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.039 though with someone at some point in our lives, where 252 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:24.119 the dynamic is a bit ambiguous. So the perception of 253 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.720 your relationship to them is it varies person to person 254 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.559 or depending on how you know. Your best friend knows 255 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.359 more than your co workers, so they would describe this 256 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:37.839 person a little differently. 257 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:38.960 Oh for sure. 258 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:43.039 But I also think in those situations, I think most 259 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:46.079 of us probably look back and say, huh, I should 260 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:47.640 have cut ties with that person. 261 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:50.039 Way long ago. 262 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:53.839 I don't think when it's these messy situations that in 263 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.519 ten years you look back, you're like, Wow, I'm so 264 00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:59.039 glad we stuck it out through that weird period and 265 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:01.680 now we're married and happy and we're going to be 266 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:07.359 together forever. Usually that's not what happens in those hard 267 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:14.359 to define relationships. But hey, if you had a it's complicated. 268 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.559 Facebook status with your partner and you are now happy 269 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.559 and married and let us live in your best life. 270 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:22.400 Yes, please do. 271 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:27.519 The fact that Facebook even had the option to like, 272 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.920 the boldness of just telling the world that your relationship 273 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:35.839 status is complicated is wild, Like, that's something that can 274 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:39.799 just be your private It really can be information. But 275 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.920 to just be like, you know what, guys, hello world, 276 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.440 even and I are complicated right now? 277 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.799 Okay, That's what I always find hilarious. Not only can 278 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:54.400 you just say like, hey, my relationship is complicated, just 279 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:58.400 putting it out there that your situation is unique or 280 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.680 nuanced or uncommon, but then to have the ability to 281 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:05.079 be like, oh, yeah, no, I'm tagging this other person. 282 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:11.079 We are committing to this complicated, unconventional situation that people 283 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:11.680 are gonna. 284 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.519 Be like, Okay, but why I was gonna say, I 285 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:19.079 think now nowadays, uh, it is just a situationship. But 286 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:24.880 if you think that I am broadcasting that to the world, No, 287 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:26.680 absolutely not. 288 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:33.480 I feel like, even like putting that digital connection, I 289 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.680 don't know, maybe before you do that, I think you 290 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:38.960 need to maybe have a conversation with the other person 291 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.839 and be like, hey, can we like define some things 292 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:44.240 in this relationship. 293 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.240 Before you start on Facebook. We're complicated. 294 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:48.720 Yeah, my grandma needs to know if this is a 295 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.839 complicated situation. 296 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:52.720 It's so crazy. 297 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.599 But you know what, in the in the world we 298 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:00.920 live in, this is one of the less crazy things 299 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:05.960 out there, that's true. So all right, back on track. 300 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.359 I'm like, what is happening here now? In a local like, 301 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.839 where are my words today? They're not in attendance. In 302 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:19.240 a local news source, her family said that Angie and 303 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:23.799 her current boyfriend had gotten into an argument and that's 304 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:28.200 when she went for a drive with Thomas. So I 305 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:32.440 think this definitely qualifies as an it's complicated situation. So 306 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.599 I'm going to take what her family has over some 307 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:41.720 of these other publications. So it sounds like they did 308 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.319 not indicate whether Thomas was just a friend or if 309 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.279 they had dated previously. But it sounds like she was 310 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.039 in a current relationship with someone else and then after 311 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:55.519 an argument with that person, she went. 312 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:56.680 For a drive with Thomas. 313 00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.759 Maybe if she was on Facebook, she'd tagged them both 314 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.400 in the complicated relationship status. 315 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.119 I think I don't know if Facebook allows it, but 316 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:10.519 I feel like they really should. If you're putting out 317 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:16.400 it's complicated, they should also be able to tag multiple people, like, 318 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:22.359 why are we excluding polyamorous people who want to commit 319 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.720 on Facebook without committing to one person. Maybe they're dating 320 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.400 three or four people and they would like their Facebook. 321 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:29.799 Community to know that. 322 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.400 Yeah, maybe I want everyone to know of who all 323 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:36.160 the parties are in my love triangle. 324 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:42.480 I mean, as an Internet stalker, Yeah, I would love 325 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:44.680 for you to tag the multiple people that you're seeing 326 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:49.039 so I can go see what they're about. But you know, 327 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:55.359 so Facebook meta h consider it. According to Thomas, they 328 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:59.839 had been drinking and partying most of the weekend. So again, 329 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:05.119 and it's really not clear. Were they all at this 330 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.359 party and she had an argument with the boyfriend there 331 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:11.440 and she left the Thomas where they at a party 332 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:14.720 and they got into an argument over the phone. 333 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.680 I don't know. Again, this is another case it's kind. 334 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.799 Of short on details, but then it kind of makes 335 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:27.880 you spiral into some of these detail related questions. So 336 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:31.119 they've been partying us the weekend and after this argument 337 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.400 she had this other guy, they opted to go for 338 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:35.039 a drive. 339 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:35.480 Around the lake. 340 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:39.880 Personally, when I read that, I was like, M, I 341 00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:43.599 think after you've been drinking all weekend, just staying home 342 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:49.160 and rehydrating would be a better idea, but nobody asked 343 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:53.160 for my opinion. Lake Siska Yu is a reservoir in 344 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:57.279 the Shasta Trinity National Forest. This is just a few 345 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:01.400 miles from the town of Mount Shasta, so the mountain 346 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:06.240 itself is the backdrop to this lake. Photos are beautiful, 347 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:13.160 spooky town. Yes, the lake in the summer is very busy. 348 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:15.440 People are camping, people are out on the water, But 349 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:20.200 this is December, so it's an entirely different scene. 350 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:21.799 There's probably very few people. 351 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:27.119 Snow and fog and white out conditions are not uncommon 352 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:32.279 this time of year here, and you get the right 353 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:37.000 snow or the right fog and you can't see beyond 354 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:38.960 the first couple of trees along the side of the 355 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:41.960 road or on the trail. At some point, Angie and 356 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:47.000 Thomas got into an argument, apparently over mud in his truck. 357 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.000 Mm hmm, that's kind of how I felt, too, Like did. 358 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.079 You bring a bucket of mud in the vehicle? 359 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.440 Or is this just like, Hey, I got into your 360 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:59.039 truck and it's wet outside, but I guess that's here 361 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.480 in Nord there. So due to this argument, she got 362 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.960 out of the car and then she supposedly walked off 363 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:10.839 towards the trees heading south down the road, and this 364 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:14.680 was the last time she was reported seeing. Tama said 365 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.759 that he was then cleaning out his car. I don't 366 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:22.839 know if this was the mud in question, or if 367 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:25.839 he's doing some other cleaning. I don't know, but he 368 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:28.400 said he heard a car door slam a short time 369 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.519 after she had gotten out of the car, and he 370 00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:33.440 said he figured that she must have just caught a 371 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.480 ride with someone else, so he ended up leaving too. 372 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.920 M he knows she got a ride with someone else, 373 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:43.160 or he thinks she did. 374 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.839 He heard a car door slam. 375 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.559 Okay, so he just assumed she's good. 376 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:51.119 I feel like that's a stretch. Would you just hear 377 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.599 a car door slam? Somebody could have pulled over and 378 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:54.640 been car sick. 379 00:24:55.240 --> 00:25:00.839 I mean, it's it's weird because he obviously didn't see it. 380 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.000 He heard a car door so he doesn't even know 381 00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:06.920 if it had anything to do with her. And honestly, 382 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.960 this was two thousand and two. You said, we can 383 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:17.640 assume that she didn't call someone and have a friend 384 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:21.000 or an uber come pick her up, you know, so 385 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.720 it's not like, Okay, she must have called and or 386 00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:27.519 texted someone she's good. Two thousand and two is not 387 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:30.720 those times. So if there was a car door and 388 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:36.240 it did have to do with her, that may have 389 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:39.839 been a it's still a stranger exactly, some sort of 390 00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:44.119 opportunistic situation that may not have been in her favor. 391 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:51.400 Right, because even if she had a phone and texted somebody, hey, 392 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:57.119 come get me, the time frame that he puts out 393 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:01.039 there wouldn't make sense for someone to have, of right 394 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:03.200 already been there to pick her up. It's not like 395 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.200 it sounds like it was a short time after she 396 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.000 got out of the vehicle. My guess is the way 397 00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:12.319 he presented it was she got out of the car, 398 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:19.119 walked off, angry, he got out, was doing whatever cleaning 399 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.759 in his. 400 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:23.039 Car, and perhaps he was. 401 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:27.880