Speaker 1: Hi, I'm andre Ato.
Speaker 2: I'm from Henderson, Nevada, and I play at Revere Golf Club.
Speaker 3: And this is Golf Smarter.
Speaker 1: Number four hundred and fifty eight.
Speaker 2: Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
Speaker 2: insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Speaker 2: Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
Speaker 2: interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
Speaker 2: like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, just like the golf swing, there are
Speaker 3: certain basic fundamental things that everybody needs to go through.
Speaker 3: You have to have a very sound fundamental putting grip.
Speaker 3: Whether it's the traditional reverse overlap grip or whether it's
Speaker 3: left hand low or the pencil grip or the claw
Speaker 3: or whatever you like to do. You have to have
Speaker 3: a sound fundamental grip that does what your grip is
Speaker 3: supposed to do in the putting stroke, and that's to
Speaker 3: work together with your arms and do not break down
Speaker 3: an impact. I think you need to have a great
Speaker 3: setup position. You have to have good eye position, good
Speaker 3: ball position, good hand and arm position, because all those
Speaker 3: things take care of where the putter is going to swing.
Speaker 3: So if you have a good setup position and your
Speaker 3: body is ready, the putter will swing on your target
Speaker 3: line a lot easier than if it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Head professional Steven Snyder with important tips you may have forgotten.
Speaker 1: This is Golf Smarter. Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. Steve.
Speaker 3: Hello, Fred, how are you good? How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm doing well, Thank you very much good. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that you joined me here in the studio today.
Speaker 1: We've known each other for a long time. Our kids
Speaker 1: played little league together before the baseball strike, that was
Speaker 1: pre ninety four. We've known each other a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we've never discussed golf in all these years. And
Speaker 1: I've you know, I've already been playing. I didn't even
Speaker 1: know that's what you did at the time. I didn't
Speaker 1: start playing until like ninety six or something, ninety eight.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I am so excited to have this conversation
Speaker 1: with you finally.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having man, I'm gonna enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Well, great, great, So let's talk about first of all,
Speaker 1: Indian Valley Golf Course. How long have you been there?
Speaker 3: What do you do I've been there about eleven and
Speaker 3: a half years. I'm the PGA head golf professional. I
Speaker 3: work some hours in the golf shop every day. I
Speaker 3: merchandise the golf shop. I do all the inventory of
Speaker 3: clubs and clothing and things for the members and for
Speaker 3: the public, and I teach in the afternoons. I organize
Speaker 3: our junior golf program for the summer, and everything that
Speaker 3: a head golf professional would do working for a Indian
Speaker 3: Valley corporation.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's interesting because I think that most people have
Speaker 1: this idea that it would be great to be a
Speaker 1: golf pro because then I can just play golf and
Speaker 1: give lessons. No, no, it's much more than that.
Speaker 3: Now we have a very very active men's and ladies
Speaker 3: club and I play. I try to play with the
Speaker 3: men's club once a week. I don't make that happen,
Speaker 3: but I try to play with the men's club once
Speaker 3: a week, and they encourage us to play. All the
Speaker 3: golf professional staff, but once a week is about what
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: Really, do you miss it?
Speaker 3: I do, But it's my business. I'm not in the
Speaker 3: business of playing golf. I'm in the business of golf,
Speaker 3: so I do all the different things around the playing
Speaker 3: part of it. And I think I have and I've
Speaker 3: been a PGA member since nineteen eighty, so I think
Speaker 3: I have a pretty good knowledge of the operation of
Speaker 3: the golf industry and enjoy all facets of it.
Speaker 1: When you're studying to be a golf professional teaching professional,
Speaker 1: do they also teach you like business? I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like you're going to have to run a pro shop.
Speaker 1: Here are the things you need to know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they do. I think you learn a lot of
Speaker 3: it through the School of Hard Knocks. But yeah, the
Speaker 3: PGA has an education program that takes about four years
Speaker 3: or five years to go through, depending on how long
Speaker 3: you stretch it out, and they teach you everything from
Speaker 3: owning your own golf shop and open to buy program,
Speaker 3: turf grass maintenance, golf cart operations, and golf cart mechanics.
Speaker 3: You know, they give you a little introduction on all
Speaker 3: the different parts and then expect you to gain the
Speaker 3: rest of it through working knowledge.
Speaker 1: The hard knocks. What's the biggest surprise for you.
Speaker 3: The biggest surprise with the golf industry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, since you've been doing it and when you came
Speaker 1: out of school and stuff, it was like, WHOA, I
Speaker 1: didn't expect that.
Speaker 3: Well, I think like everybody, I mean, we get into
Speaker 3: the golf business because we like to play golf, and
Speaker 3: I think that's probably the biggest surprises. You don't play
Speaker 3: as much golf as you would like to or think
Speaker 3: that you should, because you're too busy, and by the
Speaker 3: time you've worked your eight hour day or nine hour day,
Speaker 3: who wants to go out and play nine holes. We
Speaker 3: do it, but it's a little harder to motivate yourself
Speaker 3: to play golf under those circumstances.
Speaker 1: I can't Every teacher I've ever had a conversation with
Speaker 1: doesn't play as much golf as they'd love to. And
Speaker 1: when people ask me, oh, I love to play golf,
Speaker 1: I would love to be a teacher, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: those are two real different things they are. Being a
Speaker 1: teacher is one thing. Being a golf instructor it adds
Speaker 1: to that. But if you love to play golf, you
Speaker 1: may not want to get into the golf business because
Speaker 1: you're going to get burned out, you're going to start
Speaker 1: hating it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of people that they get in
Speaker 3: and they get out shortly after, and they get into
Speaker 3: a regular job, and they end up playing more golf
Speaker 3: than when they were in the golf business, you obviously
Speaker 3: lose some of the perks of being able to play
Speaker 3: your golf course, but you probably play more golf when
Speaker 3: you're not in the business.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you probably do, Probably do so. Indian Valley is
Speaker 1: a course that I've talked about many times on the
Speaker 1: show because it is my home course. I leave next
Speaker 1: to a golf course that I don't play that much.
Speaker 1: But it's only, you know, a ten minute twelve minute
Speaker 1: drive for me to get there, and it's a challenging course.
Speaker 1: It's a fun course. It's a great walk and a
Speaker 1: lot of people probably don't do it. It's like seven
Speaker 1: and a half miles or something.
Speaker 3: Pretty good size walk, and.
Speaker 1: There's only one level hole. In my head, there's only
Speaker 1: one level hole on the course. Right. Everything is you're
Speaker 1: hitting your lot ups and downs, lots of ups and downs,
Speaker 1: lots of ups and downs. And that's one of the
Speaker 1: things I want to go over is how to play
Speaker 1: those shots, how to take advantage of a course that
Speaker 1: is far from level. I mean, the greens are fair,
Speaker 1: they're quick, and you've got to play your shots. But
Speaker 1: it's a it's not an easy walk. It's a great walk.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's a great walk. A lot of people
Speaker 3: of older people, younger people do like to walk the
Speaker 3: golf course. So the front nine is a little easier
Speaker 3: walk than the back nine. The back nine gets a
Speaker 3: little bit more up and down the hills once you
Speaker 3: get to fourteen right fourteen through seventeen, but it's a
Speaker 3: good challenge. It's not overly long distance wise, it's even
Speaker 3: from the championship teas. It's about sixty three hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty yards, so not horribly long. But you have a
Speaker 3: lot of uphill, downhill, side hill, lies to some small
Speaker 3: greens and then to some big greens, so you have
Speaker 3: a good variation of shots that you're gonna play.
Speaker 1: So it tests you, yep, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: blind shots to greens. You know, it's always good to
Speaker 1: have course knowledge of what you're doing, but you don't
Speaker 1: always see where you're going. You can see the flag tip,
Speaker 1: but that it ends up being it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a number of shots where you're hitting up
Speaker 3: to a green or you're hitting over a little bit
Speaker 3: of a rise, so yeah, you're gonna have some some
Speaker 3: blind shots, not a lot of blind shots, but some.
Speaker 1: And also that back nine it can get pretty windy
Speaker 1: on that too.
Speaker 3: Fifteen sixteen, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: But there is one of the greatest features of any
Speaker 1: golf course, definitely in the county, that I've ever seen,
Speaker 1: is you have an elevator. It goes between fourteen and thirteen,
Speaker 1: fourteen and fourteen. What's the history of that? How did
Speaker 1: that happen?
Speaker 3: Well, the boss likes to say Jeff McAndrews is the
Speaker 3: general manager and Jeff Senior is the director of golf.
Speaker 3: And they like to say.
Speaker 1: Any family business.
Speaker 3: It's a family business. Oh, they like to say, anybody
Speaker 3: that would build a golf course it has an elevator,
Speaker 3: that's got to be an idiot. But the elevator's been
Speaker 3: there and been redone and remodeled several times. And it's
Speaker 3: basically a tram ride for the walkers to get him
Speaker 3: from the thirteenth green to the fourteenth tee. And it's
Speaker 3: a beautiful ride. I've done a couple of times just
Speaker 3: to take the ride up there. And you have a
Speaker 3: view of Stafford Lake and you have a view of
Speaker 3: about five or six holes on the golf course. So
Speaker 3: and it helps a little bit with the speed of play.
Speaker 3: And obviously cart writers ride the cart path up, but
Speaker 3: the walkers can jump in that tram ride and get
Speaker 3: right up to the next team.
Speaker 1: Last time I played, when I had my really spectacular
Speaker 1: round after I came back from vacation, and we got
Speaker 1: matched up with these two brothers, middle aged, big boys,
Speaker 1: big like. These guys had to take the cart. These
Speaker 1: are not walking guys right their cart. I had to
Speaker 1: push their car, produce my cart to push their cart
Speaker 1: up that hill because they were going, ah. It's things
Speaker 1: running out of steam and it's like no, you're kind
Speaker 1: of waiting it down. It made it a little tough.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Stafford Lake, which is pretty much the water
Speaker 1: source from Marin County. It's looking really sad right now.
Speaker 1: What is Indian Valley And we've talked about this about
Speaker 1: other courses. Pasa Tiempo did a show recently with the
Speaker 1: Presidio and their efforts during our drought. What do you do?
Speaker 1: What is Indian Valley doing to deal with the drought
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 3: Well, Indian Valley actually is on water District property, so
Speaker 3: the owners of the golf course don't own actually the property,
Speaker 3: but we do get our water to irrigate from Stafford Lake.
Speaker 3: They've asked us to cut back twenty to twenty five percent,
Speaker 3: which we've done. So a lot of the perimeter areas
Speaker 3: that normally would get irrigated this year did not get irrigated.
Speaker 3: And you'll see some areas where some of the questionable
Speaker 3: grasses have burnt out, but the basic golf course has
Speaker 3: stayed in great shape all year. Tea to green, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it really is.
Speaker 1: So that's the strategy here is just to avoid the
Speaker 1: outside areas.
Speaker 3: Eliminate all the perimeters that you don't need to water.
Speaker 3: The area from tee to green on a par three,
Speaker 3: you don't see those getting watered at all, and they
Speaker 3: they have gotten watered in the past. So we've cut
Speaker 3: back as much as we can and as much as
Speaker 3: they've asked us to, and we're all keeping our fingers
Speaker 3: crossed for this winter.
Speaker 1: Right I'm really hoping for some lousy weather here.
Speaker 3: We'd like to sell some rain gear. Yeah, you've got
Speaker 3: a lot of backgear. You've got a.
Speaker 1: Lot in the back room that you haven't been able
Speaker 1: to get rid of for least the last three years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got plenty.
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's a shame. One of the other features
Speaker 1: that I just love about your golf course, and I
Speaker 1: had this idea one day. It's like, you know, I
Speaker 1: have to walk my dog every morning, why don't I
Speaker 1: just take her with me on a golf course. So
Speaker 1: I googled dog friendly golf courses, thinking I'd never even
Speaker 1: heard of such a thing, and just that weekend there
Speaker 1: was an article about two courses in Marine Indian Valley
Speaker 1: in San Geronimo that are dog friendly. How did that
Speaker 1: come about? And what does that mean?
Speaker 3: You know what, I don't even know how it's come about.
Speaker 3: It's a great feature, and we have a lot of
Speaker 3: people that take advantage of bringing their dog up of
Speaker 3: some on a leash and some just on command that
Speaker 3: are well behaved. And we haven't had any problems from
Speaker 3: the dogs or from customers saying that I don't like
Speaker 3: to play when people have their dogs, or it's just
Speaker 3: a great feature and we all love our dogs, so
Speaker 3: a little bit more quality time and a little exercise
Speaker 3: for the pooch. And I know quite a few of
Speaker 3: them by name that come up on a regular basis,
Speaker 3: the owner and the dog, so we have a lot
Speaker 3: of fun with it.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. And you know, some people just put the
Speaker 1: dog in the cart and drive from the car. I thought, no,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to bring her with me and I'll
Speaker 1: keep the leash on her and let her drag it,
Speaker 1: and then if I need to grab her, I will.
Speaker 1: You know, if a skunk runs across the fairway or something,
Speaker 1: or a deer and she wants to go after it.
Speaker 3: We do have some wildlife, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do some beautiful wildlife out there. It's great
Speaker 1: because you're pretty isolated. We are, which is really nice
Speaker 1: in West Morin, and it's there's no houses on the
Speaker 1: course at all.
Speaker 3: The closest house, I guess would be left of three fairway.
Speaker 3: There's a couple of homes back on ranches, but they're
Speaker 3: not right on the golf course.
Speaker 1: No, there's a lot of room between that house and
Speaker 1: the and the fence. You're right there is that house
Speaker 1: two houses over on number three fairway, which is a
Speaker 1: par five, and you're spend more time looking for your
Speaker 1: ball than you notice. The only thing you would notice
Speaker 1: is if their horse comes up to you and wants
Speaker 1: to say hello, and you're walking by the fence looking
Speaker 1: for your ball.
Speaker 3: The horse is pretty well trained. He comes over when
Speaker 3: he sees the somebody bringing him an apple or a carrot,
Speaker 3: and that happens quite a bit.
Speaker 1: The first time I brought my dog out to the course,
Speaker 1: my friends that I was playing with that day, they
Speaker 1: were like, really, you brought your dog, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a dog friendly chorus. I'm gonna just give it
Speaker 1: a shot. Well, by the end of the round they
Speaker 1: were thanking me for having the dog out there because
Speaker 1: it calmed everybody down. Whenever they got like frustrated or
Speaker 1: angry upset, they go over and pet the dog and
Speaker 1: their whole attitude with therapy. It's it's amazing with canine
Speaker 1: therapy can do to your golf game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: So why do and you've never had I mean, hopefully
Speaker 1: each person that does this is a good dog citizen
Speaker 1: and they'll clean up after their dog, because you would
Speaker 1: hate to find, you know, your ball and a pile
Speaker 1: of poop.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, we don't have any problems with that.
Speaker 1: No. I brought bags with me and she you know
Speaker 1: one time, Okay, fine, just put it in the trash
Speaker 1: in the next hole. No one's gonna care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, no, they the dogs are fine. The dogs
Speaker 3: are are so well behaved. Probably more behave than some
Speaker 3: of the players from time to time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I never had a dog bark at
Speaker 1: the time that I was on a backswing. I can
Speaker 1: tell you how many times each round that we're all
Speaker 1: be in a backswing and I'll hear somebody who's probably
Speaker 1: missed a putt. You can hear them from another Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: calm down, guys. Yeah exactly. Is there anything that you
Speaker 1: guys treat the ground with that we should be concerned
Speaker 1: that our dog might be sniffing and licking around? And
Speaker 1: is there any chemicals or anything that keep your course
Speaker 1: so green that I'd be worried about.
Speaker 3: No, we're pretty restricted by the water district because we
Speaker 3: are on water district properly. That's interesting that there are
Speaker 3: a lot of chemicals that we cannot use. So no,
Speaker 3: we're we're very animal friendly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's such a I don't know why more courses
Speaker 1: don't even consider it. Have you heard of other courses
Speaker 1: that are have had trouble with it, or even courses
Speaker 1: that do it? No, the two here in this county. No,
Speaker 1: I have not really, No, it's bring it up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a fun feature.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what so, so you know bring When I
Speaker 1: say bring it up, I mean like an upcoming PGA
Speaker 1: professionals meeting. You guys have regular meetings and conferences and things.
Speaker 1: What are the struggles that everyone's discussing these days? As
Speaker 1: far as you know, we're all losing business left and right.
Speaker 1: How do we get them back?
Speaker 3: Well, we got to a point where we overbuilt, so
Speaker 3: there were too many golf courses and too many options,
Speaker 3: and play was just going.
Speaker 1: Through the roof, and which was a great thing.
Speaker 3: Nobody saw a decline happening, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: the economy hits and people either have a budget for
Speaker 3: time or for dollars and they can't play as much golf.
Speaker 1: Right. So well, and you also have the Tiger factor.
Speaker 1: You have somebody who's not as charismatic, who's leading the
Speaker 1: tour and making headlines of people going, oh, I want
Speaker 1: to do that, I want to do that. There's really
Speaker 1: I mean, Rory is a great player, but he doesn't
Speaker 1: have the or the you know, the press appeal of
Speaker 1: a Tiger. And I'm talking about press appeal. Even before
Speaker 1: Tiger's mishaps, he's still the press loved him, right, and
Speaker 1: that's going to generate a lot of business for the industry.
Speaker 3: Well, I think we're looking at areas where we can
Speaker 3: expand the golfer base. Everybody has now an email list,
Speaker 3: a base of emails that you can send out specials
Speaker 3: and invitations and promotions that you might have from time
Speaker 3: to time to try to expand on who you're advertising to.
Speaker 3: I think the inevitable thing is that there are going
Speaker 3: to be some golf courses that close, and that does happen.
Speaker 3: But we're trying to go from the positive standpoint, how
Speaker 3: do we get a few more people to play golf?
Speaker 3: And a couple of years ago it was trying to
Speaker 3: get the people that play six times a year to
Speaker 3: play twelve times, and that's what it is, and those
Speaker 3: kind of things, and expanding the junior population and expanding
Speaker 3: the ladies' population so that you get a few more
Speaker 3: players that way, and we're working at it.
Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of the average customer at
Speaker 1: Indian Valley how many times a year they play at
Speaker 1: your course, Because, like I'm one of the members, you
Speaker 1: know when you're lesser members. But I recently did a
Speaker 1: check because my son was asking me, and of the
Speaker 1: last thirteen rounds that I had played, I played eleven
Speaker 1: different courses in Marin, Sonoma, and San Francisco, so I
Speaker 1: don't always go to Intow Valley it's my go to,
Speaker 1: but I play a lot of courses. So do you
Speaker 1: have any sense of how often.
Speaker 3: Well, we have an annual membership right with about two
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five or so, either single members or
Speaker 3: family members, and they play more golf, obviously than the
Speaker 3: general public plays. I think the average family member probably
Speaker 3: plays two to three times a week. Then the one
Speaker 3: extreme would be we have one member that played three
Speaker 3: hundred and eight rounds last year. Wow, they weren't all
Speaker 3: at Indian Valley, but he posted three hundred and eight
Speaker 3: rounds of golf. That's a lot of golf.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of golf. Well, that's the beauty of
Speaker 1: living on the West Coast when you can play twelve
Speaker 1: months a year.
Speaker 3: And we had a year where the weather was more
Speaker 3: conducive to playing. We didn't have much rain, so he
Speaker 3: played golf.
Speaker 1: I have a listener who I actually just did a
Speaker 1: show with because he's a physical therapist as well and
Speaker 1: is a certified TPI instructor and he lives in Ottawa, Alberta.
Speaker 1: He lives in Alberta, Canada, and he's already had over
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty rounds this year. And he doesn't
Speaker 1: get to play for like more than five or six
Speaker 1: months a year, right, but he plays two rounds of
Speaker 1: golf every day, at least two. He'll play thirty six holes.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of golf and he's only been playing
Speaker 1: six years and he's down to a three.
Speaker 3: So you eat a sink or swim there, get better
Speaker 3: or ya kuia one or the.
Speaker 1: Other exactly exactly. So of all the conversations that are
Speaker 1: going on these days about how do we bring more
Speaker 1: people in, there's some outrageous ideas being you know, the
Speaker 1: first one comes to mind, like fifteen inch hole and
Speaker 1: you know, moving the t's up to play it forward concept.
Speaker 1: Have you guys done anything or you would you consider
Speaker 1: doing anything that is special to bring bodies in or you.
Speaker 3: Just yeah, I think we would, And we wholly support
Speaker 3: the play It Forward program and we've promoted that, probably
Speaker 3: not as much as we should, but we have promoted
Speaker 3: it some. I think everybody would have a lot more
Speaker 3: fun if they played a golf course where they could
Speaker 3: shoot a good score and was a little bit more
Speaker 3: usually friendly. I think that's the point we got into
Speaker 3: building golf courses that were seven thousand yards long. And
Speaker 3: you go out there and don't have much fun and
Speaker 3: shoot a high score, You're probably not going to come back, right,
Speaker 3: So we try to promote.
Speaker 1: That they're charging you one hundred and fifty to two
Speaker 1: hundred dollars to do.
Speaker 3: So fees can be high. Yeah, the feest can be high.
Speaker 3: We promoted from that from that avenue the twelve inch cups.
Speaker 3: I don't know that we're going in that direction. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be a fan of that. I'm still more traditionalist
Speaker 3: and I'd like to see other things explored before we
Speaker 3: go to a twelve inch cup.
Speaker 1: Well, just if you play the fifteen inch hole or
Speaker 1: the twelve inch hole, just don't post your score. But hey,
Speaker 1: you're gonna first of all, you're going to probably play
Speaker 1: a lot faster, and you know you're going to score
Speaker 1: a lot lower, you're going to make a lot more putts.
Speaker 3: I'd have less frustration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And if it's a way to get people,
Speaker 1: you know, excited about it, have fun. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of on the fence about it. I've heard
Speaker 1: many conversations. I just don't wanted to disrupt normal play.
Speaker 1: It would have to be a designated time or a
Speaker 1: day or something. But I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm just more traditionalist with the golf that the history
Speaker 3: of golf and the challenge of golf and being a
Speaker 3: golf professional. I'd like to teach people and get them
Speaker 3: to play a little bit better. Maybe they'd have a
Speaker 3: little bit more if they're more fun if they played
Speaker 3: a little bit better. So I would attack it from
Speaker 3: that direction. And then the idea, I mean, there was
Speaker 3: ideas years ago. Why shouldn't the average player, and a
Speaker 3: male average player is somewhere between a fifteen and a
Speaker 3: twenty handicap, why shouldn't he be able to hit the
Speaker 3: same kind of iron into a hole that one of
Speaker 3: the stronger players on the tour can hit.
Speaker 1: And that was the play it forward, And that's the.
Speaker 3: Play it forward I did. And I think everybody would
Speaker 3: score better and they'd have more fun doing that.
Speaker 1: No question, And drop the ego, folks. Sure you know
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't have a problem playing the whites.
Speaker 1: What's the problem. I'm going to have a better score probably.
Speaker 3: Or the reds. And we took the names off of them.
Speaker 3: It's not ladies team in exactly, it's Redswhites, it's forward,
Speaker 3: t's middle, te's.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. But are people taking advantage of the do they?
Speaker 1: First of all, do they understand the concept play it forward?
Speaker 1: Because I don't know if that name really explains what
Speaker 1: it is. And we had Barney Adams on who it
Speaker 1: was his idea, and we've talked about it and talked
Speaker 1: about the name and how it doesn't come up with anything.
Speaker 1: But do you think people are actually a significant number
Speaker 1: of your or even a minor number of your customers
Speaker 1: are taking advantage of that content?
Speaker 3: Well? I think they are. In fact, I just before
Speaker 3: I came over, I met with our nine old Ladies
Speaker 3: group and they're playing a couple of teas that we
Speaker 3: don't even have team markers at right now, because they
Speaker 3: want to play it a little farther forward, and they
Speaker 3: want to have rounds go a little bit quicker, and
Speaker 3: they want their higher handicapped ladies to enjoy themselves a
Speaker 3: little bit more. So. I think there's instances where we're
Speaker 3: making it happen.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get into helping the average golfer, and
Speaker 1: that is what we do here at Golf Smarter. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm a guy with the right equipment and a bunch
Speaker 1: of questions, and I want to get my game better.
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about what's going on in
Speaker 1: the tour and how much money they're making or not.
Speaker 1: I want to improve my weekend first. I guess the
Speaker 1: first thing is to move up closer on your t
Speaker 1: shots so you can get yourself a short iron versus
Speaker 1: a hybrid, right, right, But let's talk about playing Indian Valley,
Speaker 1: and of course that is very hilly and a lot
Speaker 1: of uneven lies. What would be the first thing that
Speaker 1: you would remind somebody of to pay attention to when
Speaker 1: then you know, when they have to address the fact
Speaker 1: that the ball is going to be above their feet
Speaker 1: or below their feet on any hit.
Speaker 3: Well, I might even take one step backwards from there
Speaker 3: and think about how many people play golf that don't
Speaker 3: have proper equipment, and so you might think about addressing
Speaker 3: the issue of what's in your bag and how to
Speaker 3: use what's in your bag. The sand wedge is the
Speaker 3: most versative, versatile golf club in your bag. If you're
Speaker 3: not using it to do a lot of your pitching
Speaker 3: and things around the green. Then you're cheating yourself. So
Speaker 3: you need to learn how to use that. Hybrid clubs.
Speaker 3: Everybody should have a couple of them in their bag.
Speaker 1: What clubs should you get rid of to so that
Speaker 1: you can replace with three hybrids?
Speaker 3: The three iron is almost obsolete. The two irons nobody
Speaker 3: even makes anymore. Wow, So most of the sets start
Speaker 3: with four or maybe even five iron, and a five
Speaker 3: iron has got enough loft and a short enough shaft
Speaker 3: that most people can feel confident enough to get the
Speaker 3: ball up in the air with a five iron. So
Speaker 3: then you go four iron three iron in the hybrid set,
Speaker 3: and they're built like a fairway wood and they'll get
Speaker 3: launch the ball up in the air and it'll land
Speaker 3: softer on the green. And so having proper equipment, even
Speaker 3: to the point of having the hybrids and having the irons,
Speaker 3: and making sure that you're fitted properly, and you go
Speaker 3: to your golf professional and you get fit for the
Speaker 3: proper length and lie and shaft type so that you're
Speaker 3: getting the best out of your game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am such a huge advocate on getting fitted.
Speaker 1: It makes me crazy when I have friends out there
Speaker 1: and goes oh, look, here's my new driver. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: did you get fitted? No, I just swung. I took
Speaker 1: a couple of swings at the golf shop into a
Speaker 1: net and it felt good, like.
Speaker 3: Bad move, bad move. And then they can do a
Speaker 3: decent fitting at a golf shop where you're using the
Speaker 3: computerized equipment. I like to see the ballfly. So when
Speaker 3: you're outdoors and you can see the initial launch angle
Speaker 3: besides what you're reading on the computer fitting, and you
Speaker 3: can see the spin rate, and you can see the
Speaker 3: curve of the golf ball. You're going to find out
Speaker 3: what kind of shaft and whether you need a softer
Speaker 3: shaft or a lighter shaft or a heavier shaft. Those
Speaker 3: kind of things can be seen just by looking at
Speaker 3: the ball flight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm trying to think like getting fitted than
Speaker 1: not hitting into a net. I mean, actually seeing the
Speaker 1: actual ballflight. You can learn a lot more from that
Speaker 1: than just I mean, the computers are pretty awesome.
Speaker 3: Computers are awesome. The computer can tell you from the
Speaker 3: initial contact with the golf club the spin rate, launch
Speaker 3: angle and all those kind of things. It's ball speed,
Speaker 3: those kind of things that you're interested in. But from
Speaker 3: a naked eye. You see the ball launch off of
Speaker 3: your club face. You see the initial spin rate, balls
Speaker 3: that take off and they start low and they rise.
Speaker 3: You know, there's too much spin on the ball. I'm
Speaker 3: I'm a field person and I have a trained eye.
Speaker 3: So as far as the equipment goes, it's it's a bonus.
Speaker 3: I would say it's a bonus, but I like to
Speaker 3: see the ball fly.
Speaker 1: Interesting. That makes a lot of sense. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people who don't aren't using taking advantage of that. Well,
Speaker 1: they don't have the room.
Speaker 3: Well, and if you if you come to a to
Speaker 3: a golf shop or a golf club where you can
Speaker 3: hit balls and you can see the ball fly. Everybody
Speaker 3: that does the club fittings, and I'm included. We have
Speaker 3: three of us that do club fittings at Indian Valley
Speaker 3: and we can club fit you and the club fitting
Speaker 3: doesn't cost anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a huge advantage that people don't realize. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not going to cost you anything and
Speaker 1: you're only going to do better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just gonna help.
Speaker 1: And what are the things that are gonna for me?
Speaker 1: When I got fitted. One of the first things that
Speaker 1: started happening is my drives. I got a new driver
Speaker 1: and they were going longer, and the dispersion they weren't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't flying to the right, it wasn't flying to
Speaker 1: the left. Once we made those adjustments, I was just
Speaker 1: you know, you put more balls in the fairway, your
Speaker 1: scores are gonna go down.
Speaker 3: You can have a lot more fun when you're not
Speaker 3: in the trees every.
Speaker 1: Hole, yep, yep. And you guys have trees, yes.
Speaker 3: We have trees, and we have fairway bunkers a few,
Speaker 3: and we have hazards that you can get yourself into.
Speaker 3: So getting yourself fit for the proper clubs is a
Speaker 3: big thing.
Speaker 1: How do you keep the bunkers in good shape with
Speaker 1: the drought.
Speaker 3: Well, sand traps on the fairways are not going to
Speaker 3: get as much use as up around the green so
Speaker 3: they take a little bit less maintenance. But sure the
Speaker 3: green side bunkers they get maintained on a daily basis,
Speaker 3: and they get upgrades throughout the year as need be,
Speaker 3: you know, refilling the sand or re raking the sand
Speaker 3: to get them to where they're more playable, because they
Speaker 3: do get hit with irrigation and they get hit with
Speaker 3: storms in the wintertime, so you have to do some maintenance. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was up at Foxtail North this past weekend up
Speaker 1: in Rohnert Park, and the bunkers were like playing off
Speaker 1: a hard pan and it was like unfortunately, it was
Speaker 1: like when I played at Pasa Tiempo that was just
Speaker 1: dried out rock hard, looking ugly. But the bunkers just
Speaker 1: work hard, really hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm not very comfortable to hit a sand shot
Speaker 3: next to a green and right not have a great
Speaker 3: deal of sand in there. But we do a pretty
Speaker 3: good job keeping the sand.
Speaker 1: Why are they just not refilling the sand or it's
Speaker 1: just because it's so wet.
Speaker 3: The economy hits in a lot of different directions.
Speaker 1: YEA interesting. Interesting, all right, Now let's see Okay, so
Speaker 1: we talked about equipment. We talked about playing the correct teas. Okay,
Speaker 1: now let's get back to those uneven lies.
Speaker 3: Uphill downhill side hill lies. Yeah, some of them more
Speaker 3: difficult than others. I think the biggest basic thing that
Speaker 3: everybody needs to think about when you're on a hilly
Speaker 3: golf course is getting your body level to the slope
Speaker 3: that you're trying to play. For instance, your spine angle
Speaker 3: where that is and being perpendicular to the ground. So
Speaker 3: uphill lies, you're going to tilt your body and get
Speaker 3: your spine angle matched up to the ground. Downhill lies,
Speaker 3: you have to go the other direction and try to
Speaker 3: actually get your right side a little bit higher so
Speaker 3: your club can swing down the slope. So there is
Speaker 3: a definite knack to the side. Hill lies and the
Speaker 3: up and downhill lies even from short game to a
Speaker 3: fairway wood to a long iron.
Speaker 1: So you want to make sure that your body is
Speaker 1: perpendicular to the ground right, not to perpendicular to gravity
Speaker 1: right right, so you're not like trying to go you
Speaker 1: be straight even though the ground is at an angle,
Speaker 1: and you want to be up and down as far
Speaker 1: as gravity's concerned.
Speaker 3: Right, the spine angle to the ground has to be
Speaker 3: at a ninety degree angle. So if you've got an
Speaker 3: uphill lie, you want the club to be able to
Speaker 3: swing up the slope and not swing into the slope.
Speaker 1: And then what about ballflight coming off of a shot
Speaker 1: where the ball is let's say above your feet.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you got a ball that's going to go
Speaker 3: up up the hill a little bit, it naturally adds
Speaker 3: more loft to your club, so you need to club up.
Speaker 3: If it's a five iron shot, maybe you need a
Speaker 3: four iron. You need something that's going to have a
Speaker 3: little flatter face because your launch angle is going to
Speaker 3: be higher, and then vice versa. If you're going down
Speaker 3: the slope, you need something with more loft. And the
Speaker 3: hardest shot to hit off of a downhill slope is
Speaker 3: to try to take a fairway wood and try to
Speaker 3: get an airborne where most people would be better off
Speaker 3: if they took that hybrid with twenty three degrees of
Speaker 3: loft and swing down the slope and get the ball airborne.
Speaker 3: Is probably going to come off like three would.
Speaker 1: Number eight at Indian Valley, Part three, All up hill.
Speaker 3: Hardest tool on the golf course.
Speaker 1: The death of Me. It's it's got a narrow green
Speaker 1: going left to right. So when you're looking at it,
Speaker 1: it's the width of the green, it's not very deep,
Speaker 1: and it's all uphill to the green, and it's the
Speaker 1: green is on top of the hill. And if you
Speaker 1: even land on the green, you your chances are you're
Speaker 1: going to bounce off and go back down the hill.
Speaker 3: Very difficult show.
Speaker 1: Very difficult shot to get the ball to stay on
Speaker 1: the green. Playing from the whites, you're probably it's like
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty five hundred and forty yard shot.
Speaker 1: But with the uphill you got to add two clubs.
Speaker 1: Then you got the wind in your face sometimes or
Speaker 1: the wind behind you. It's either in your face or
Speaker 1: behind you. How do you what do you recommend to
Speaker 1: play that hole or a hole? That's that that complicated?
Speaker 3: Well, like you said, if it's if it's into the wind,
Speaker 3: you have to only have to club up. You're clubbing
Speaker 3: up because it's uphill.
Speaker 1: And that's what a two or three club difference.
Speaker 3: It depends on how strong the wind is. That's just
Speaker 3: something that's a judgment called there's.
Speaker 1: No wind at all, that kind of elevation change going uphill.
Speaker 1: You know, I think if something to decide how many
Speaker 1: clubs that you want to go up.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it depends on how high you hit
Speaker 3: the ball. I think it's a one club difference going
Speaker 3: up that hill. So from one hundred and sixty yards
Speaker 3: I would hit a six iron. I'd normally hit a
Speaker 3: five iron going up that slope. But you also want
Speaker 3: to think about the green itself. You don't want to
Speaker 3: be long there, so any kind of miss needs to
Speaker 3: be short, because at least you have a chance from
Speaker 3: short to chip and put and get it up and down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but even if you're a little short, that thing's
Speaker 1: going to hit the edge of the hill, take one
Speaker 1: bounce and just fall off to the right and now
Speaker 1: you're down by the fence way below the hole.
Speaker 3: No doubt, a very difficult hole, but.
Speaker 1: It's not ranked as like the highest handicap hole on
Speaker 1: the course.
Speaker 3: Though, I think purely because of the yardage, just because
Speaker 3: one and forty one hundred and sixty yards depending on
Speaker 3: where you're playing from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, last time I think that I I stayed just
Speaker 1: just on the fringe, but on the back fringe of
Speaker 1: the green. Plus, you don't necessarily want to attack the
Speaker 1: pin on that hole. You just want to get to
Speaker 1: the middle of the green as best you can.
Speaker 3: And you always want to favor left. Why because there's
Speaker 3: more forgiveness to the left side. Anything that hits from
Speaker 3: the middle of the green right is going to fall
Speaker 3: down that slope and you're going to have a much
Speaker 3: more difficult ship in.
Speaker 1: The front side of the green. But on the back side,
Speaker 1: if you go it's narrow there, it's narrow so you
Speaker 1: go a little bit. Yeah, now you're all the way
Speaker 1: on the back end again and there's a big oak tree.
Speaker 3: Right, there's never been there myself.
Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you about that hole, Steve. It
Speaker 1: can happen, you know, when you're on the other side
Speaker 1: of the green and you've got to come up. You
Speaker 1: want to take a nice high lofted club just kind
Speaker 1: of floated up, but you can't because there's a tree there.
Speaker 3: It's a big oak tree.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I hope you never do get to introduce
Speaker 1: yourself to that.
Speaker 3: It's a difficult shot from long.
Speaker 1: What's the best score at the course? What's the course record?
Speaker 3: Fifty nine? Wow, Felix Cadinho shot fifty nine senior fifty
Speaker 3: nine when, oh god, it's been fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1: Probably really Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3: He's a very fine player, and he plays Indian Valley
Speaker 3: very well. He's had a lot of close calls to that.
Speaker 3: He shoots a lot of sixty threes and fours.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing, pretty strong. It's your best friend at
Speaker 1: Indian Valley.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think about my best I think probably
Speaker 3: about sixty six or seven, which is good for me.
Speaker 3: I'm not a. I don't make a lot of birdies,
Speaker 3: but I don't make a lot of bogies either.
Speaker 1: Is where's your what are your issues if you're not
Speaker 1: making a lot of birdies.
Speaker 3: Well, my strength is my t shot. I drive the
Speaker 3: ball straight and not very far far enough, but not
Speaker 3: very far, so I don't get into a lot of trouble.
Speaker 3: And I'm good with the short game. My iron play
Speaker 3: is probably my weakest part of my game, so I
Speaker 3: don't get into a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1: And how many pets around do you put in?
Speaker 3: Well? I played in a tournament last month where I
Speaker 3: had thirty one puts the first round and twenty eight
Speaker 3: the second round, and twenty eight is good. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 3: take twenty eight every time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah yeah. Get me around the thirty
Speaker 1: mark underneath, I'd be very happy, absolutely hate.
Speaker 3: Those three puts unless you're only hitting about three or
Speaker 3: four greens around so.
Speaker 1: Well, right right, And if you are coming up short
Speaker 1: to be able to have enough of a short game
Speaker 1: to do, give yourself a five foot.
Speaker 3: Or less to get it up and down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the key. It is how you score. I'd
Speaker 1: tell you score as a golfer, not as an instructor,
Speaker 1: but as a golfer, what's the best advice you've ever
Speaker 1: received about playing golf?
Speaker 3: The best advice I've ever received. I think there's a
Speaker 3: lot of people who try to find that magic moment
Speaker 3: in their game that's just going to make them fixed
Speaker 3: and they're going to be able to just play better.
Speaker 3: And I think the patience that everybody needs to have
Speaker 3: if you're making a little swing chains that you're patient.
Speaker 3: Your patient on the golf course. If you miss it
Speaker 3: a shot, you try to get it up and down
Speaker 3: and you try to make it up on the next toll.
Speaker 3: There is a lot of patients involved, and the best
Speaker 3: players in the world can really exercise that and they
Speaker 3: don't let their confidence wane and go up and down
Speaker 3: too much. I think that's probably the best advice I've
Speaker 3: ever gotten.
Speaker 1: Do you give playing lessons as well? Just go out
Speaker 1: on the course with people, and I do.
Speaker 3: I don't have the time to give too many of them.
Speaker 3: And I feel like if you're going to give a
Speaker 3: playing lesson, there needs to be something specific on the
Speaker 3: golf course that you need to work on, whether it's
Speaker 3: your strategy, it's stuff around the green, different lives around
Speaker 3: the green or even just uphill downhill side hill lies
Speaker 3: that we were talking about. Those are things that you
Speaker 3: can't do on the driver range right exactly.
Speaker 1: And what is glaring to you when you're out doing
Speaker 1: a playing lesson that you'll see just so common as
Speaker 1: a mistake.
Speaker 3: Lack of knowledge of the short game is probably the
Speaker 3: biggest thing. I've worked with some really good players who
Speaker 3: don't understand the loft and the d loft and being
Speaker 3: able to get the ball up and down around the
Speaker 3: green the basic mechanics.
Speaker 1: And that would be the key to really scoring.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely. I mean, you look at the average player
Speaker 3: that can hit a t shot two hundred yards and
Speaker 3: hit a second shot one hundred and eighty one hundred
Speaker 3: ninety yards. They're in that fifty yards to the green
Speaker 3: area that they need to make sure that they're one
Speaker 3: on the green almost every time or every time, and
Speaker 3: that they're in a range that they're going to have
Speaker 3: two putts maximum. That's a bogie golfer, right.
Speaker 1: And that would be a beautiful thing for a lot
Speaker 1: of people.
Speaker 3: It would be a really good thing for a lot
Speaker 3: of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I see a lot and don't know how
Speaker 1: to well. I don't offer any help because I'm in
Speaker 1: no position to do it. But what I see a
Speaker 1: lot is, especially on the short game, is people sweeping
Speaker 1: at the ball. They're not coming down, they're not you know,
Speaker 1: trying to control it that way. Why do people just
Speaker 1: automatically think you just got to slide right under the
Speaker 1: ball and they don't get the hit the ball hit
Speaker 1: the ground concept.
Speaker 3: Well, I think down equals up and golf, so for
Speaker 3: the club to swing down, that sends the ball up.
Speaker 3: But psychologically it doesn't make sense. The golf game is
Speaker 3: played with the ball in the air, so most players
Speaker 3: are trying to get the ball in the air, help
Speaker 3: the ball in the air, and they're not allowing their
Speaker 3: club to be able to get the ball in the
Speaker 3: air for them. So yeah, that's part of the mechanics.
Speaker 3: It can be simply ball position, and it could be
Speaker 3: like you're talking about, it could be the angle of
Speaker 3: attack with their club that it's not coming up and
Speaker 3: down enough to be able to get the ball airborne.
Speaker 3: But the simple mechanics are the short game and then practice.
Speaker 3: And one of the faults that we have here in
Speaker 3: Marine County is we don't have a really good short
Speaker 3: game area, and we are creating that at Indian Valley
Speaker 3: down next to our driving range. We're going to have
Speaker 3: a nice short game area green with a bunker and
Speaker 3: some chipping area around it, and I hope that people
Speaker 3: will take advantage of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you what I do when I to
Speaker 1: practice my short game when I come out because your
Speaker 1: driving ranges a hill, so I need to We'll get
Speaker 1: to that in a minute about how accurate it is
Speaker 1: when you're hitting on there. But what I do is,
Speaker 1: you'll generally there's never a lot of people on the
Speaker 1: driving range. People don't just come out to Indian Valley
Speaker 1: just to go to the driving range. There's other places
Speaker 1: they'll go.
Speaker 3: For trying to make it that way that we're trying
Speaker 3: to make it a little bit more of a destination
Speaker 3: practice area.
Speaker 1: But I agree, Yeah, I mean probably Peacock would be,
Speaker 1: you know, a destination practice area in this county. But
Speaker 1: what I do is, so generally when I go up there,
Speaker 1: there's only one or two guys, if any up on
Speaker 1: the range, and what I do is I will just
Speaker 1: take a handful of balls and try to get try
Speaker 1: to hit it to the mat because I can retrieve
Speaker 1: all my balls, but I'll just go, Okay, this one's
Speaker 1: going to go to two mats. Now I'm going to
Speaker 1: just go to three mats and just try to see
Speaker 1: if I can just keep it, you know, whether it's
Speaker 1: a high shot or a low shot, just try to
Speaker 1: get it to each mat and see how accurate I
Speaker 1: can be on that.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think we're going to offer a
Speaker 3: nice little practice area, destination practice area. It's you can
Speaker 3: get your bucket of balls and you can go hit
Speaker 3: a few bunker shots and you can hit some wedges
Speaker 3: and then go up and hit the rest of your
Speaker 3: golf balls, so you're fully warmed up before you go
Speaker 3: out to the first team.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great. That's really exciting. When do you guys
Speaker 1: think you'll have that open soon?
Speaker 3: I hope the grass is in there pretty good right now.
Speaker 3: It's up to the superintendent when he thinks it's ready
Speaker 3: to go, but hopefully soon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been doing a lot of work on the
Speaker 1: driving range over there.
Speaker 3: We have. Yeah, the area right in front of the
Speaker 3: tea box has now been leveled and that is now
Speaker 3: grassed as well. It won't be a grass hitting area,
Speaker 3: but cosmetically will look a lot better.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 3: And realistically, when you go down to that driving range,
Speaker 3: if you're really working on practicing, then you're gonna hit
Speaker 3: your seven eight nine pitching wedge, you're gonna hit your
Speaker 3: shorter clubs. If you're going down there to warm up,
Speaker 3: then you hit everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I one or two swings with the driver, but
Speaker 1: mostly it's you know, working on you know, because that
Speaker 1: is a warm up is my practice time. I don't
Speaker 1: get enough time to go out to a range, so
Speaker 1: I'll focus on my short short clubs.
Speaker 3: And you know that's where you're going to score anyway.
Speaker 1: Right, exactly exactly so, but your driving range is on
Speaker 1: a hillside it is, and you have flags up there
Speaker 1: and you're saying it's one hundred and fifty yards one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards. Define thee hundred and fifty yards
Speaker 1: when you're hitting it on a hill, I mean, is
Speaker 1: it actually one hundred and fifty yard shot or no.
Speaker 3: Well it's one hundred and fifty yards, But whether it
Speaker 3: plays one hundred and fifty yards it depends on what
Speaker 3: kind of loft you're going at it with. For somebody
Speaker 3: hits the ball pretty high, it's probably going to be
Speaker 3: fairly accurate. But for somebody who's not lofting the ball
Speaker 3: as much, it's going to feel like it's a long
Speaker 3: ways to that one hundred and fifty yard marker. So
Speaker 3: it depends on the trajectory of your shot.
Speaker 1: But when you're playing a hole, like when we talked
Speaker 1: about on number eight, when you have an uphill sh
Speaker 1: that's we'll call it one hundred and forty yards, you
Speaker 1: have to account for you know, the ball is gonna
Speaker 1: so when it's uphill, it's gonna be a little bit
Speaker 1: longer than what it says it's gonna play a little longer. Right,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's going to explain how that works for
Speaker 1: me for uphill and downhill and why you want to
Speaker 1: go like on number five, the par three downhill four, okay,
Speaker 1: number four, Right, you've got that one where it's one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five yard, except it's extreme downhill, so
Speaker 1: you're not necessarily going at it at one hundred.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of factors in golf besides
Speaker 3: just hitting the golf ball that you always have to
Speaker 3: weigh in on the temperature. The ball is going to
Speaker 3: always go farther when it's warmer, the wind direction, the
Speaker 3: uphill and downhill side hill lies, those always play a part.
Speaker 3: So when you're working on number eight, you're hitting it
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty yards up the hill. For me,
Speaker 3: that shot right there is probably a seven iron because
Speaker 3: my trajectory is not high. For somebody who hits the
Speaker 3: ball pretty high, they're probably not going to lose a
Speaker 3: whole lot there without any wind blowing. So it has
Speaker 3: to do with the trajectory of the shot. The hill's
Speaker 3: going to take some of the loft off of the
Speaker 3: shot hitting it up that hill.
Speaker 1: What is your specialty as an instructor. What do you
Speaker 1: focus on the most or think that you can help
Speaker 1: somebody the most with.
Speaker 3: Well, I think I can help people with their full
Speaker 3: golf swing, But I think my specialty is probably with
Speaker 3: the putter or with the short game. I think I
Speaker 3: have a very good technique to teach the putting stroke,
Speaker 3: and I think that I have a really good technique
Speaker 3: that I've developed over time and tested and trial and
Speaker 3: tested with the short game, everything from a little short
Speaker 3: pitch shots to fifty thirty forty fifty yard web shots.
Speaker 1: When I've gone into stores and ask a salesperson about,
Speaker 1: you know, clubs they have distinct opinions and then getting
Speaker 1: fitted on all the different clubs. But when you bring
Speaker 1: up a putter to someone like that, they'll go, you know,
Speaker 1: it's all about feel. It's all about how you feel.
Speaker 1: And when you start taking instructions, they'll start you with position, grip,
Speaker 1: and alignment. There's the basics of the full swing. And
Speaker 1: then again they come back there's so many different ways
Speaker 1: to putt. How do you have a method of putting
Speaker 1: that you're able to transition somebody from what they were
Speaker 1: doing to what you feel is the correct way to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 3: Well. I think, just like the golf swing, there are
Speaker 3: certain fundamental, basic, fundamental things that everybody needs to go through.
Speaker 3: You have to have a very sound fundamental putting grip.
Speaker 3: Whether it's the traditional reverse overlap grip or whether it's
Speaker 3: left hand low or the pencil grip or the claw
Speaker 3: or whatever you like to do. You have to have
Speaker 3: a sound fundamental grip that does what your grip is
Speaker 3: supposed to do in the putting stroke, and that's to
Speaker 3: work together with your arms and to not break down
Speaker 3: an impact. I think you need to have a great
Speaker 3: setup position. You have to have good eye position, good
Speaker 3: ball position, good hand and arm position, because all those
Speaker 3: things take care of where the putter is going to swing.
Speaker 3: So if you have a good setup position and your
Speaker 3: body is ready, the putter will swing on your target
Speaker 3: line a lot easier than if it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Dave Stockton was on a couple months ago and he
Speaker 1: mentioned that because I'm left hand low and lag, putting
Speaker 1: can be difficult for me, and he said, change your
Speaker 1: grip for the longer ones. What's your thought on.
Speaker 3: That, Well, that's probably very true because if you're a
Speaker 3: right handed player playing right handed, your right hand is
Speaker 3: your power supply. So if your right hand is basically
Speaker 3: taken out of the stroke by having left hand low,
Speaker 3: you don't have the same kind of feel and being
Speaker 3: able to roll the ball at longer distances. So I
Speaker 3: would agree with that.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Well, I want a lesson. I want a putting
Speaker 1: lesson from from here. That would be a lot of fun,
Speaker 1: because that's to me, that's where I'm You know, three
Speaker 1: putting can ruin your whole round. It can just get
Speaker 1: into your head and think you're having a terribly. You
Speaker 1: can be green and every fair way, hit every green
Speaker 1: and regulation and you're three putting and worse and you
Speaker 1: just become a miserable human being. No doubt, it'll just
Speaker 1: I suck because you can't put it.
Speaker 3: There's no reason why a fifteen eighteen handicapped player can't
Speaker 3: be a good putter.
Speaker 1: And then they won't be a fifteen or hit the right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they can drop down to twelve quickly with that.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm going to take you up on that,
Speaker 1: because what do you think about the ruling on the
Speaker 1: long putters and attaching to the body or not attaching
Speaker 1: the body or.
Speaker 3: I have mixed emotions. I mean, I'm for anything that's
Speaker 3: going to make golf easier for people, and I think
Speaker 3: the long putter when it came out, it took players
Speaker 3: who had real problems with the putter and gave them
Speaker 3: a whole new feeling a bit about playing golf. It's
Speaker 3: a good thing, which is a good thing. But I'm
Speaker 3: also a traditionalist, and I think the golf swing is
Speaker 3: what we're calling it, so the putter needs to swing,
Speaker 3: and in that kind of action, it's more of a
Speaker 3: pendulum attached to your body kind of situation, so your
Speaker 3: arms aren't normally swinging the putter, so kind of mixed emotions.
Speaker 3: I think there will be some new things evolved. I
Speaker 3: think people will adapt and we'll have people using the
Speaker 3: Matt Coots your method and something that Bernard Langer did
Speaker 3: a long time ago, or he braced it to his
Speaker 3: arm and still swung his arms, and that's still going
Speaker 3: to be allowed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be allowed. Okay, traditionalists, Yes, there's there's new
Speaker 1: fangled equipment all the time. The technology has changed so
Speaker 1: radically in the last ten years as far as the
Speaker 1: materials used. Do you like that or you think we
Speaker 1: should go back?
Speaker 3: Well, I think the USGA has a good handle on
Speaker 3: what's going to happen with the equipment and the golf ball.
Speaker 3: And they're only going to allow the golf ball to
Speaker 3: go so fast off the club, So the golf ball
Speaker 3: is only going to fly so far. And they keep
Speaker 3: tinkering with the feel of it and the initial launch
Speaker 3: angle and spin rate and those kind of things. Will
Speaker 3: probably tinker with the ball a little bit, but the
Speaker 3: club material that's probably something that will change over time.
Speaker 3: But the ball is only going to come off of
Speaker 3: that club face so fast, right, So I don't I
Speaker 3: don't see a whole lot changing there. She marked changes.
Speaker 3: I think we're gonna have clubs that are going to
Speaker 3: be more forgiving. They're going to keep working on the
Speaker 3: hybrid idea and things that make off a little bit
Speaker 3: more fun. But as far as distance goes, I don't
Speaker 3: think it's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Just did a conversation with an author who wrote a
Speaker 1: book about the nineteen sixty nine Ryder Cup, and we
Speaker 1: had it on just as the Ryder Cup was happening.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that fascinated fascinated me about
Speaker 1: reading the book was they talking about how in the
Speaker 1: early sixties there was a different sized ball in the
Speaker 1: US being used versus the one over in the UK.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit smaller, like eighty one hundredths of
Speaker 1: an inch smaller. Instead of making the holes bigger, if
Speaker 1: we made the ball smaller, would that help?
Speaker 3: Actually, David Ferridy is a fan of making the balls bigger, bigger,
Speaker 3: slightly bigger, which will reduce how far they go.
Speaker 1: Would you want to do that? Everything is trying to
Speaker 1: make a game longer.
Speaker 3: Well, and trying to get an equal playing field, and
Speaker 3: trying to make it to where the long hitters can't
Speaker 3: hit it fifty yards by you making the ball slightly
Speaker 3: bigger will make the ball go a little bit shorter.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm a tremendous fan of that idea, but.
Speaker 1: I think that way we have different tea boxes, that
Speaker 1: is till the long hitters can stand back there and
Speaker 1: you don't have to play. Not everybody in your forest
Speaker 1: them has to play the same tea box.
Speaker 3: It's okay, that's true, and I hope we're to the
Speaker 3: point now where we're not going to see Augusta National
Speaker 3: have to go to eight thousand yards. And you know,
Speaker 3: all of our local golf courses have to get longer,
Speaker 3: longer to make them viable.
Speaker 1: But ninety eight percent of the players can't play those
Speaker 1: long courses anyway. I mean to build courses just for
Speaker 1: the tour.
Speaker 3: That's true, and I think, well that was the ego
Speaker 3: build that we had for a number of years, and
Speaker 3: now I think we're much more reasonable about what the
Speaker 3: golf courses need to play. Like, we have some golf
Speaker 3: courses in the area here that maybe worked a little
Speaker 3: bit too hard when they were first built, a little
Speaker 3: too severe, and people play them a couple of times
Speaker 3: and say, I don't want to go back there. So
Speaker 3: now I think they're softening those courses up and they're
Speaker 3: making it work. It's a little bit more friendly and
Speaker 3: people will have a better time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they should. And most people shouldn't be playing the
Speaker 1: back teas anyway, that's true, unless you are included.
Speaker 3: Six sixty year old guys don't need to play seven
Speaker 3: thousand yard golf course.
Speaker 1: You know, it's very funny. Well, Steve, it's so great
Speaker 1: that we've finally got a chance to do this. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking the time to come out and
Speaker 1: have this conversation with you. I've been waiting for a
Speaker 1: long time to do this. I've threatened you for years
Speaker 1: to do this.
Speaker 3: Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for coming. And I look
Speaker 1: forward to two things. One seeing you out there every
Speaker 1: time I come out, and to getting that putting lesson.
Speaker 1: I need the help.
Speaker 3: I'll be glad to help gain it.
Speaker 1: Put