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<v Speaker 1>Old age is a gift that is not granted to many.

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<v Speaker 1>We take for granted the years as they pass by,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's easy to discount the wisdom that comes with

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<v Speaker 1>the experience of life. In today's episode, the experience and

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<v Speaker 1>wisdom that came with old age wasn't the only thing

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<v Speaker 1>that was discredited, but in fact, their value of their

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<v Speaker 1>very life seemed to be in question. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>case of the Alpine Manner Murders. A place where seniors

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<v Speaker 1>could go for assisted living and end of life care

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<v Speaker 1>instead turned into a murderous tale.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to

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<v Speaker 2>Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Warning the following podcast and material intended for mature I listen,

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<v Speaker 1>you gave me quite the face with that intro.

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<v Speaker 2>I also didn't get the memo to open my drink.

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<v Speaker 1>I just went with it for the intro.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, Hey, I'm opening my now because I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this sounds like a really nice podcast. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>because I actually say that often, that like, aging is

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<v Speaker 2>a gift basically, right, Oh yeah, definitely, It's not granted

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<v Speaker 2>to everyone. And so I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm really

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<v Speaker 2>digging this and then it went real, so reality struck, yeah, real,

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<v Speaker 2>sel real quick, Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait till we actually get into the episode, because it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's dark, it sucks and yay not yea, not yeay whatsoever. Awesome,

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<v Speaker 1>but we do have a couple of things we want

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<v Speaker 1>to touch on here before we get into the episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Particularly last week we said we are going to be

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<v Speaker 1>airing that as the first video episode. Ever, however, we

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<v Speaker 1>did have problem with one camera. I think we even

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<v Speaker 1>talked about it that off. Yeah, we lost half the

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<v Speaker 1>footage for Nicole's angle, so you would have been just

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<v Speaker 1>looking at me for half. Fine, Yeah, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I think for the first episode we want to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that every camera is working. So I think we

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<v Speaker 1>got it all sorted out. We have all the cameras

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<v Speaker 1>set up and it should be good to go this time.

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<v Speaker 1>So fingers crossed YouTube link down below where you can

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<v Speaker 1>find the episode in video form.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>We also want to thank our patrons because they're signing up,

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<v Speaker 1>they're supporting us getting behind the scenes and getting an

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<v Speaker 1>extra episode which airs the last day of the month,

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<v Speaker 1>which is also tomorrow or today whenever you're listening to it,

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe yesterday or who knows when.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, all depends January thirty.

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<v Speaker 1>First, there we go. But we have these people to

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<v Speaker 1>thank for signing up for Patreon. So we have Chantel Barrio,

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<v Speaker 1>Tamara Newcombe, Nicole, Mary Gabriel Hill, and Monica Keys. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much. You guys appreciate it awesome. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>they get all that good stuff over on Patreon. If

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<v Speaker 1>you want to find the link links down below, you

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<v Speaker 1>can go ahead check it out, subscribe, or you can

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<v Speaker 1>just be here and show with us. That's cool too.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually know on Nicole Marie you do, so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>curious if that's the one that.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, if it's the Nicole Marie yeah, or if

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<v Speaker 1>it's a Nicole Marie yeah, or another min Nicole Marie.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people have similar earth the same names,

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<v Speaker 2>right touche.

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<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, I've never met another Ben Gibson, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure there is others out there. There is a

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Gibbons, Gibbons, a local Ben Gibbons town.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it always I see them comments sometimes and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I'm like, oh, I don't know, it startles me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not me. That's it. That's the knockoff version of me,

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<v Speaker 1>or maybe I'm the knockoff version of them. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>but either way.

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<v Speaker 2>And then yeah, we should also mention that we're putting

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<v Speaker 2>this out a smidge late.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, well, I mean it's it's not technically late.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the same day.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the same day, but it's not like midnight of

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<v Speaker 2>that day.

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<v Speaker 1>We usually aim to upload the second the day starts,

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<v Speaker 1>at least on Pacific standard time at midnight the episodes released,

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<v Speaker 1>but we had some power outage issues and stuff like that,

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<v Speaker 1>so we're a little bit delayed today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, we had quite the storm last night. It

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<v Speaker 2>was a bit alarming.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you could say that again.

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<v Speaker 2>And living in a tiny home like during a storm

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<v Speaker 2>is next level.

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<v Speaker 1>You feel much more exposed. That's for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>It has its benefits, but it's also kind of weird

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<v Speaker 2>too at the same time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like, I don't know, a camper and RV

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<v Speaker 1>sort of situation. You're just like very there in the storm.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, whoa, we have a tin roof and we

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<v Speaker 1>live in a little tiny loft where we sleep, so

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<v Speaker 1>we're just like the storm is right.

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<v Speaker 2>There, and shit's hitting the roof and it's really shit.

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<v Speaker 1>HiT's the roof. Yeah, definitely, but we are we good

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<v Speaker 1>to go into this? Ready for the episode?

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<v Speaker 2>I think? So?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay? Yeah, well, let's dive into the alpine manner murders,

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<v Speaker 1>shall we?

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<v Speaker 2>Let's do ward?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay? So in Grand Rapids, Michigan, Ed Chambers and his wife,

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<v Speaker 1>Marguerite were an unbreakable team. Together. They had four children

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<v Speaker 1>and lived a very successful life with their careers. But

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<v Speaker 1>their life, however, did take an unexpected turn in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy two when Ed began to notice a subtle shift

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<v Speaker 1>in Marguerite's once vibrant personality. The woman who he had

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<v Speaker 1>known to have been highly intelligent and quick witted, was

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<v Speaker 1>now showing signs of forgetfulness and confusion. Concerned, the couple

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<v Speaker 1>sought medical advice, bracing themselves for the news, and they

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<v Speaker 1>had some that would really reshape their world. See the

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<v Speaker 1>diagnosis was devastating. Marguerite, at the age of forty two,

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<v Speaker 1>was grappling with Alzheimer's disease. Oh wow, relatively young for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>seemed super young. Definitely, it's a relentless form for those

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<v Speaker 1>who don't know of dementia that mercilessly erodes a person's

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<v Speaker 1>meta and cognitive abilities over time. So eventually you start

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<v Speaker 1>forgetting who you are, your friends and family are, and

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know where you are, and it's just constant

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<v Speaker 1>amnesia essentially.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I don't know if you do, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have any experience with like any loved ones with that,

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<v Speaker 2>But it just seems like it would it would just

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<v Speaker 2>be awful, like just awful for them themselves. But also

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<v Speaker 2>say if it's like your mom or your dad or

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<v Speaker 2>whatever and they're slowly like forgetting who you are, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's heartbreaking.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know for me, Like I forget a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of shit. You tell me like, hey, we got plans

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<v Speaker 1>next weekend, I'm like, oh, gotcha, and then I forget

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<v Speaker 1>it like in five minutes. Other than that, definitely no

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<v Speaker 1>experience with Alzheimer's or any sort of dementia. Yeah, counter

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<v Speaker 1>lucky stars so far. Anyways, So, as the years unfolded,

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<v Speaker 1>Marguerite was left unable to perform the simplest of daily tasks.

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<v Speaker 1>Ed made the difficult decision to take an early retirement,

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<v Speaker 1>and determined to be by Marguerite's side through the tumultuous

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<v Speaker 1>journey that lay ahead. He was there, However, by the

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<v Speaker 1>early nineteen eighties, the harsh reality set in and Marguerite

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<v Speaker 1>required around the clock care that extended beyond what Ed

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<v Speaker 1>could provide. Reluctantly acknowledging the limitations of his solo efforts,

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<v Speaker 1>Ed made the decision to enlist the assistance of professional

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<v Speaker 1>living caregivers. In the meantime, he searched for suitable facilities

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<v Speaker 1>around Grand Rapids. Facilities, however, were very a very rare commodity,

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<v Speaker 1>leaving Marguerite's name among multitude of people who were on

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<v Speaker 1>the hopeful applicant waiting list. So in that meantime he

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<v Speaker 1>had caregivers coming to their home doing what they could,

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<v Speaker 1>but he ultimately wanted to get her into a full

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<v Speaker 1>time facility, so they endeared a long two year wait,

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<v Speaker 1>but a glimmer of hope finally emerged when a bed

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<v Speaker 1>opened up at Alpine Manor, just on the outskirts of

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<v Speaker 1>Grand Rabbits. Now, this two hundred and eight bed nursing

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<v Speaker 1>home conveniently was only three three blocks from where Ed

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<v Speaker 1>and market lift.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that seems perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it became a lifeline essentially, right so that Ed

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<v Speaker 1>could actually even like he could walk to go see

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<v Speaker 1>her at his leisure Alpine Manor had four wings, each

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<v Speaker 1>of its own had its nursing stations. The facility, contrary

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<v Speaker 1>to Ed's preconceived notions of a cold, sterile box, was

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<v Speaker 1>something much different. It exuded a surprising warmth. The air

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<v Speaker 1>was tinged with cleanliness, and the staff donned an impeccable attire,

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<v Speaker 1>and they graced the common areas, mingling within all the residents.

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<v Speaker 1>As Ed ventured further, he discovered the vibrant community within

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<v Speaker 1>where the residents gathered, engaging in conversation with playful games.

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<v Speaker 1>The nursing home, far from the stark institution that he

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<v Speaker 1>initially assumed, boasted carpeted floors, curtains adorning the windows, walls,

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<v Speaker 1>had artwork, and it was just had this like nice

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<v Speaker 1>touch of humanity within this environment.

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<v Speaker 2>It almost sounds kind of cozy, Like.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to go there and like put my self

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<v Speaker 1>in there, almost like it's like, damn, that sounds like

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<v Speaker 1>a life, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it sounds comfortable and cozy, and that's exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>they were aiming for, and that's exactly what they're delivering,

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<v Speaker 2>And that's exactly what Ed was hoping for with Marguerite,

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<v Speaker 2>to have something like this Not only that, though, the

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<v Speaker 2>residents even had the luxury of a beauty shop being

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<v Speaker 2>in house, and there was a dedicated dining room where

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<v Speaker 2>they could.

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<v Speaker 1>Share meals, and it was just like there was even

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<v Speaker 1>craft activities and the opportunity for social studies classes so

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<v Speaker 1>they can keep up on like current events and everything. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>it was fantastic to say the least. Now, despite the

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<v Speaker 1>way that guilt set upon Ed's shoulders as they made

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<v Speaker 1>the difficult transition with Marguerite attending Alpine Manor, the unexpected

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<v Speaker 1>homely ambiance of the facility perfided a very bittersuite kind

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<v Speaker 1>of solace to them.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Now, Alpine Manor had actually even earned accolades from

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<v Speaker 1>Michigan health departments as a standout nursing home. It was

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<v Speaker 1>a perfect solution for both Marguerite and Ed. Like so,

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<v Speaker 1>by mid nineteen eighties, Marguerite's deteriorating condition had now confined

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<v Speaker 1>her to the world where walking and talking were distant memories.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, that's sad.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's living within the Alpine Manor Home and she's

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<v Speaker 1>just getting worse and worse as the years goales on.

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<v Speaker 1>Ed witnessed the heartbreaking transformation as she spent her entire

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<v Speaker 1>days curled up into a ball, gently rocking back and forth,

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<v Speaker 1>but undeterred, Ed remained committed. He would visit her every

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<v Speaker 1>single day.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I feel that he is like husband.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the year, husband of the yeah century, maybe even who.

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<v Speaker 2>Knows doing a good job there.

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely so in the quiet moments of connection that he

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<v Speaker 1>had with Marguerite, though, they were able to communicate just

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. Whenever he reached out his hand towards

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<v Speaker 1>her and Ed's voice filled the room, he would sip

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<v Speaker 1>beside her. Whatever the case. You could kind of see

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<v Speaker 1>this like fleeting eye contact apparently, where she just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of got happy again, where she became, even for a moment,

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<v Speaker 1>the person who she once was.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, that makes me want to cry.

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<v Speaker 1>Ed after these visits would gently tuck Margerite into bed,

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<v Speaker 1>leaving her in the care of the dedicated staff on

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<v Speaker 1>his way out. It was a nightly ritual and they

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<v Speaker 1>would do this every single time.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh. I mean, you could only be so lucky to

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<v Speaker 2>have an Ed.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like everyone should strive to have an edge basically. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, Marguerite was not the only person living within

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<v Speaker 1>the walls of Alpine Manor. There were many others, both

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<v Speaker 1>patients and healthcare professionals like operating within these walls. So

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<v Speaker 1>this brings us to twenty three year old Kathy Wood.

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<v Speaker 1>She had harbored dreams of a career in healthcare. Her

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<v Speaker 1>journey had started with voluntary work as a nursing assistant

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<v Speaker 1>during high school, where her passion for helping others just blossomed. However,

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<v Speaker 1>at the age of seventeen, Kathy's career aspirations took a

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<v Speaker 1>bit of a detour when she became pregnant. With the

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<v Speaker 1>responsibilities of motherhood taking precedence, Kathy made the decision to

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<v Speaker 1>put her dreams on hold. As life unfolded, she found

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<v Speaker 1>herself at a crossroads. Her daughter was now attending school,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was eager to rekindle the flame for her

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<v Speaker 1>passion that she once had for nursing. Awesome, So, serendipitously,

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<v Speaker 1>the nursing home that resided just a few blocks away

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<v Speaker 1>Alpine Manor had openings for jobs, and Kathy wasted no

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<v Speaker 1>time in seizing the opportunity. Her enthusiasm and genuine commitment

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<v Speaker 1>to caregiving caught the attention of the management, and she

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<v Speaker 1>was promptly hired as a nursing aid pretty much on

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<v Speaker 1>the spot.

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<v Speaker 2>Awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Kathy found herself aiding individuals with tasks ranging for

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<v Speaker 1>minor assistance to dressing to showering to providing comprehensive care

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<v Speaker 1>for high needs residents, encompassing daily activities such as eating, drinking, bathing,

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<v Speaker 1>turning in bed to turning the patients in bed to

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<v Speaker 1>prevent pressure sores. Her diligence and good nature basically quickly

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<v Speaker 1>made her very likable, not only within the residence but

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<v Speaker 1>also within the staff that she was working with as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, because that's not I mean, all those things you described,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not an easy job.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's not anyone who's doing these sort of jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>It's difficult, not only physically, but I'm sure mentally as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and she was.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a very hard worker. She was also said

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<v Speaker 1>to be very intelligent and easy to talk to as well.

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<v Speaker 1>She seemingly like seamlessly just integrated in with the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the staff and fit in with like the resident community.

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<v Speaker 1>It swiftly like earned her as a reputation of a

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<v Speaker 1>valued member of not only working here, but that tight

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<v Speaker 1>knit community within within the walls. She was actually able

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<v Speaker 1>to embrace her night owl tendencies as well as she

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<v Speaker 1>gravitated towards the night shift, which were like the quieter hours,

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<v Speaker 1>which let her have these deeper connections that she could

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<v Speaker 1>build with residents or other coworkers and stuff as the

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<v Speaker 1>residents are sleeping.

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<v Speaker 2>She sounds kind of like an angel.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, she was doing everything she could, and she

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<v Speaker 1>was doing really well, and she was thriving, which I

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<v Speaker 1>think is most important. I think if you can use

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<v Speaker 1>the word thriving in terms of a home like this,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a good thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, through and through well, I mean I volunteered

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<v Speaker 2>like that at one point, thinking that's what I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to do, and then I was like, not for me.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think people that choose to do that and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, do a good job are just amazing because

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<v Speaker 2>it's so necessary. We need them.

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<v Speaker 1>Props to them now. An unintended consequence of her of

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<v Speaker 1>her genuine nature and infectious personality was the attention she

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<v Speaker 1>garnered from her peers. Colleagues affectionately followed her, hanging on

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<v Speaker 1>every word she spoke. It was a stark contrast from

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<v Speaker 1>what she was actually used to. So throughout her married

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<v Speaker 1>life she became very self conscious with herself. She grappled

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<v Speaker 1>with her weight, reaching almost four hundred and fifty pounds

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<v Speaker 1>after the birth of her daughter. Now, as such, Kathy

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<v Speaker 1>spent a lot of her life indoors, yet at Alpine

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<v Speaker 1>Manner she found herself immersed in a rather supportive environment

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00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:08.279
<v Speaker 1>where compliments replaced judgment. The new found camaraderie infected like

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<v Speaker 1>Kathy's passion even more so. She's like, oh, like, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to this place where people like me, people want

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<v Speaker 1>to talk to me, people don't mind maybe my weight

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00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:21.000
<v Speaker 1>or not judging. They're not judging whatever she's self conscious about.

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<v Speaker 1>She doesn't have to be self conscious anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>That's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>So this made her want to go to work, and

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<v Speaker 1>it even actually prompted her to take double shifts willingly

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00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:34.559
<v Speaker 1>because she just liked it there that much. Yeah. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>in the unfolding months, Kathy's transformation became a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a concern for her husband, Ken. Days off, which used

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00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:46.320
<v Speaker 1>to be you know, family time, right now saw Kathy

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<v Speaker 1>immersing herself in with socializing with the Alpine Manner staff,

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<v Speaker 1>which I mean you get friends at work.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, to get that totally.

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<v Speaker 1>But a notable shift began to emerge as Kathy would,

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<v Speaker 1>who had never really consumed alcohol before, would now return

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00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:05.600
<v Speaker 1>home from these gatherings quite drunk or even high and

302
00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:07.200
<v Speaker 1>just kind of like almost in a daze or a

303
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.000
<v Speaker 1>stupor sort of thing. Okay, I mean she went from

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00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:13.480
<v Speaker 1>basically a dedicated stay at home wife and mother to

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00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:18.000
<v Speaker 1>now this constantly working individual who then was going out

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00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.080
<v Speaker 1>and partying in her spare time and almost not having

307
00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:22.279
<v Speaker 1>a family life anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:26.440
<v Speaker 1>She even like displayed little interest in spending any time

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<v Speaker 1>with her daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, because at first it was like good for her,

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00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:33.559
<v Speaker 2>because I mean, just doing it periodically or whatever.

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00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Is more than Oh yeah, no, enjoy yourself for sure.

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00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. If it's taking away pretty much all your time

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00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:41.080
<v Speaker 2>from your family, that's not great.

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<v Speaker 1>This was was becoming a problem, Okay. Yeah. Tensions escalated

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00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.159
<v Speaker 1>at home, and they were marked by frequent fights between

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00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.120
<v Speaker 1>Kathy and Ken. Kathy also began sharing with Ken the

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00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.440
<v Speaker 1>gossip circulating you know, around the nursing aids at the matter,

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00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.399
<v Speaker 1>which that happens. There's gossip at work, you talk, I

321
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.360
<v Speaker 1>get it. Yeah. She had hell tales of love triangles,

322
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:06.079
<v Speaker 1>drunken threesomes, altercations, between love rivals, and he was just

323
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.839
<v Speaker 1>like people are like fighting, fucking and doing everything else

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00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.880
<v Speaker 1>under the sun. Like, what kind of box a conment

325
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:12.720
<v Speaker 1>do this? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean that would probably alarm us spous a

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00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:16.079
<v Speaker 2>little bit.

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00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, Yeah, for sure. He's basically like, what the

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00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:19.680
<v Speaker 1>hell's going on at outline? Manner?

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00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Wow?

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00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:23.599
<v Speaker 1>But I mean as of right now, like the facility

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00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:26.039
<v Speaker 1>is still operating good. The residents are getting care and

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00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.559
<v Speaker 1>that's the important part. As long as it doesn't spill

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00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.480
<v Speaker 1>in between that line or crossover. I mean, I think

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00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:32.799
<v Speaker 1>that's important.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, on September of nineteen eighty six, only six months

338
00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.240
<v Speaker 1>after Kathy had joined Alpine Manor, she dropped a bombshell

339
00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:43.640
<v Speaker 1>and Ken she had fallen in love with someone else,

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00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:48.519
<v Speaker 1>an eighteen year old fellow nursing aid named Dawn. After

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00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.240
<v Speaker 1>seven years of marriage, Kathy wanted a divorce.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, at first, eighteen was a little alarming, but I

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00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:56.279
<v Speaker 2>guess she would have been a bit young on Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah she was. Yeah, I believe if I'm not mistaken,

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00:17:58.599 --> 00:17:59.640
<v Speaker 1>I think she's about twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, So Ken hope.

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00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.160
<v Speaker 1>This was just a passing phase and she would return

348
00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.839
<v Speaker 1>to him. McAthy was adamant, and so Ken decided to

349
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.799
<v Speaker 1>take their daughter and the two of them lived in

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00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:15.519
<v Speaker 1>a hotel while Kathy remained in their family home. Now alone,

351
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.680
<v Speaker 1>she was struggling to make ends meet without Ken's financial support,

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00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.960
<v Speaker 1>and Kathy found herself in a bit of a pickle.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually wrote precarious situation, but I just really wanted

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00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:26.880
<v Speaker 1>to say pickle for some reason. In that moment, I

355
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:28.200
<v Speaker 1>was like, no, pickle sounds better.

356
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:29.720
<v Speaker 2>It does. I enjoyed that.

357
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<v Speaker 1>Who doesn't enjoy good pickle?

358
00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:34.880
<v Speaker 2>No? Dang, yeah, they're good.

359
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.880
<v Speaker 1>So the situation she found herself in was a fellow

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00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Alpine Manor staff member who was introduced to her through

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00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.480
<v Speaker 1>a nursing head friend was twenty two year old Gwen Graham.

362
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<v Speaker 1>Although Gwen lacked prior nursing experience, she had taken on

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00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.480
<v Speaker 1>the role as stepping stone towards becoming a paramedic. An

364
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Alpine Manner's chronic understaffing led to Gwen being hired on

365
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.960
<v Speaker 1>the spot spot, just like Kathy before her, in an

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<v Speaker 1>immediate connection between Kathy and Gwen, and within a week

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00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.319
<v Speaker 1>of Gwen moving in because hey, you know financial support, right, Okay,

368
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.480
<v Speaker 1>So she moved in to help fill that voyage. Just

369
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:10.599
<v Speaker 1>gets a little bit of rent, and within a week

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00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.240
<v Speaker 1>of her moving in, Kathy severed ties with the eighteen

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00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.440
<v Speaker 1>year old Dawn, and the relationship between Kathy and Gwen

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00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:19.559
<v Speaker 1>quickly evolved from roommates to romantic partners.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, so.

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<v Speaker 1>The nursing staff nerthing. Nursing nursing staff at the Manor

375
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.279
<v Speaker 1>found amusement in the contrasting appearance in the newly formed

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00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.480
<v Speaker 1>couple between Kathy and Gwen. Gwen had an athletic build,

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00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.160
<v Speaker 1>stood about five foot two inches tall, weighed about one

378
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.240
<v Speaker 1>hundred and forty pounds, had bunch of freckles, and a

379
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:44.759
<v Speaker 1>red haired mullet. Okay, well, In contrast, Kathy stood about

380
00:19:44.759 --> 00:19:47.799
<v Speaker 1>six feet tall, possessed her larger frame, striking blue eyes,

381
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.440
<v Speaker 1>and bleached blonde hair. The staff playfully dubbed them the

382
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.480
<v Speaker 1>perfect pair, joking that Kathy brought the brains while Gwen

383
00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:57.920
<v Speaker 1>contributed the brown. Oh mind, Yeah, so apparently it was

384
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.319
<v Speaker 1>like a yin and a yang sort of situation. Yeahmplete

385
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:01.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of opposites that attract.

386
00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, I mean yeah, it makes sense yep.

387
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:09.079
<v Speaker 1>Now, beyond their physical appearances, though, the duo found common

388
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.200
<v Speaker 1>ground in their troubled upbringings. Cathy's pass was marked by

389
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:17.279
<v Speaker 1>a strict and physical abuse with her father, with her

390
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.599
<v Speaker 1>assuming a caregiver role as well for her siblings, and

391
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.640
<v Speaker 1>her mother just kind of took a back seat. Meanwhile,

392
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.839
<v Speaker 1>Gwen had endured the trauma of childhood sexual abuse perpetrated

393
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.400
<v Speaker 1>by her own father, leading to self harm as a

394
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:31.720
<v Speaker 1>coping mechanism during her teenage years. Neither of those situations

395
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:35.400
<v Speaker 1>are good, So that sucks, not at all. So both

396
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.720
<v Speaker 1>of them carried significant emotional baggage as a result between

397
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.440
<v Speaker 1>these and harbored deep resentment towards their now elderly parents

398
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.759
<v Speaker 1>in the workplace for Alpine manner, I mean, it's kind

399
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:54.119
<v Speaker 1>of understandable to expect that it's common to have deaths, right, Okay, Yeah,

400
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:56.599
<v Speaker 1>I mean had your dealing with elderly palliative care sort

401
00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.440
<v Speaker 1>of situation, and they dealt with an average of five

402
00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:02.480
<v Speaker 1>to ten residents passing away each month due to age

403
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:07.079
<v Speaker 1>related conditions. Ah So, shortly after Gwenn had joined the staff,

404
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:11.599
<v Speaker 1>she experienced her first encounter with death. An elderly woman

405
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:16.400
<v Speaker 1>named Helen's succumbed to pneumonia and Gwen initially was devastated,

406
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:21.759
<v Speaker 1>she underwent a sudden transformation. However, after Helen's remains were

407
00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:25.240
<v Speaker 1>transferred from the funeral transferred to the funeral home, her

408
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:28.079
<v Speaker 1>tears stopped and they were replaced quickly by a surprising

409
00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:32.119
<v Speaker 1>relevation to her colleagues that she apparently couldn't stand Helen,

410
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.000
<v Speaker 1>citing the constant whining as a source of her dislike

411
00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:38.359
<v Speaker 1>for her. Okay, so she started by crying and then

412
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.200
<v Speaker 1>as soon as she was gone, Oh, I couldn't stand

413
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:41.960
<v Speaker 1>that woman. She's constantly whining, like.

414
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:44.599
<v Speaker 2>Ugh, oh that seems terrible.

415
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:45.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not good.

416
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

417
00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:50.359
<v Speaker 1>About a month into Gwen's employment, another new nursing aide

418
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:52.559
<v Speaker 1>joined the night shift. She was in the middle of

419
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:54.759
<v Speaker 1>responding to a residence call because I mean, they have

420
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:56.559
<v Speaker 1>like a call button, right, Yeah, So she's in the

421
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.359
<v Speaker 1>middle of responding to a call and entered the dark

422
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:02.200
<v Speaker 1>room because it's the middle of the night. So the resident,

423
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, laying in bed, pushed the button, gets a call,

424
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.759
<v Speaker 1>and to her surprise, she found the resident fast asleep.

425
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:11.160
<v Speaker 1>So she's kind of like, what the hell.

426
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a bit weird.

427
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:16.039
<v Speaker 1>So she searched for the mysterious like act like why

428
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.039
<v Speaker 1>the button was activated sort of thing. Yeah, did they

429
00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:20.720
<v Speaker 1>roll over in the button or whatever. She's standing next

430
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:22.319
<v Speaker 1>to the bed, kind of looking at the resident and

431
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:24.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe searching for the button, and all of a sudden

432
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:29.519
<v Speaker 1>a hand grabbed her ankle from underneath the bed, prompting

433
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:34.599
<v Speaker 1>her to panic. She screamed and fled the room myself. Yeah,

434
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and she woke up quite a few of the residents

435
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.599
<v Speaker 1>within the manner. Uh huh, it was Gwen. She was

436
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.680
<v Speaker 1>playing a prank, hiding underneath the bed, and she emerged,

437
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:45.440
<v Speaker 1>laughing her ass off.

438
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:48.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I get that, but I also don't like

439
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.319
<v Speaker 2>that's maybe a bit too far, especially.

440
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.119
<v Speaker 1>When you're dealing with residents like that, and like you

441
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:53.839
<v Speaker 1>just woke them.

442
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.799
<v Speaker 2>Up and disturbed them, right, Yeah, yikes.

443
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So from here, Gwen's practical jokes like this only

444
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.839
<v Speaker 1>began to escalate, leaving both staff and residents in a

445
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.720
<v Speaker 1>perpetual state of like, is she standing around the corner?

446
00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:12.279
<v Speaker 1>What's going to happen next? Right? When she reveled in

447
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:15.119
<v Speaker 1>playing these tricks in our colleagues, she would actually turn beds,

448
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Like she'd go into rooms when other nursing aids are

449
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.359
<v Speaker 1>aren't around, she'd turn the beds around, so when they

450
00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:21.759
<v Speaker 1>come in the room, it's like, what the heck, like

451
00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:24.599
<v Speaker 1>where's the resident or anything? Right, because they walk around

452
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.359
<v Speaker 1>in the dark lots because the residents are sleeping. Yeah,

453
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:31.359
<v Speaker 1>and she would actually even swap residence rooms so she'd

454
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:33.119
<v Speaker 1>be like, take this resident, put you in this room,

455
00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:35.799
<v Speaker 1>this one over in this room, like just screw with people.

456
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:37.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I don't know if I love this.

457
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:41.279
<v Speaker 1>She even began removing wire screens from windows that backed

458
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.680
<v Speaker 1>onto the courtyard, which allowed her swift escape if she

459
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.519
<v Speaker 1>needed to, like to get out of there so people

460
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:49.039
<v Speaker 1>don't catch her in the act sort of thing. Seriously,

461
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.119
<v Speaker 1>on next level, she would even like wait outside these

462
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:54.480
<v Speaker 1>windows and like bang on the windows really hard to

463
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:59.079
<v Speaker 1>like scare people inside. So, yeah, she was taking a

464
00:23:59.160 --> 00:23:59.599
<v Speaker 1>little far.

465
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it doesn't really sound like it matches like the

466
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.960
<v Speaker 2>description how you describe this place initially, right, Like it

467
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.039
<v Speaker 2>seemed like kind of calming.

468
00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:10.039
<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly what it was.

469
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's not.

470
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I mean I understand practical jokes, don't get

471
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.519
<v Speaker 1>me wrong, I really do. But there's like you got

472
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:19.640
<v Speaker 1>to kind of, like you said, match that sort of

473
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.640
<v Speaker 1>energy of your place. Yeah, And understand who you're playing

474
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:27.640
<v Speaker 1>pranks on, and you got to you got to do

475
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:30.240
<v Speaker 1>it cautiously and carefully and ensure there's no harm done

476
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.559
<v Speaker 1>to anyone. Yeah, you're playing pranks on this like with

477
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.319
<v Speaker 1>your coworkers, there's there's collateral damage with these residents.

478
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and I just feel like that, like the

479
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.079
<v Speaker 2>dark is scary enough. I mean, I don't know, I

480
00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:42.880
<v Speaker 2>don't love dark situations. And then also you're kind of

481
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:44.920
<v Speaker 2>in a place where, like people, there's a lot of

482
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.720
<v Speaker 2>death and stuff. Yeah, Like I just I think that

483
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.079
<v Speaker 2>would make me feel very uneasy, to be honest.

484
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, I can't blame you. Now, the Nighthouse supervisor,

485
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Tish PRIs Scott found herself caught in the crossfire of

486
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Gwen's antics. So she's kind of in charge, right, and

487
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.720
<v Speaker 1>it's like, now this is all happening. It's people are

488
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:03.720
<v Speaker 1>like what the fuck? Yeah, So she's fed up with

489
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:06.799
<v Speaker 1>the Shenanigans, and Tish identified Kathy Would and Gwen as

490
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:10.279
<v Speaker 1>the instigators behind much of the trouble. So these pranks

491
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:14.000
<v Speaker 1>were in fact only part of the problem. The duo

492
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.160
<v Speaker 1>we're actually using the PA system to gossip about other colleagues,

493
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.519
<v Speaker 1>and it actually even exploited residents with speech impediments, getting

494
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.519
<v Speaker 1>them to read announcements for their amusement. So they're like

495
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.160
<v Speaker 1>over the pa like to someone with a speech impediment

496
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:29.759
<v Speaker 1>read this, and they're laughing at the way they're pronouncing

497
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:31.920
<v Speaker 1>it and everything to the whole building.

498
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, this has gone way too far.

499
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.559
<v Speaker 1>No, it's starting to get onto abuse now, yeah, is

500
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.359
<v Speaker 1>what it is. Yeah. Now, despite Tish's attempts to separate

501
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.039
<v Speaker 1>Kathy and Gwen, all they would do is they would

502
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.440
<v Speaker 1>just switch shifts with other nursing aids to ensure they're

503
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.279
<v Speaker 1>still back on the same schedule shift with each other,

504
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:49.519
<v Speaker 1>so they could continue doing this.

505
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm feeling like Gwen is a bad influence on Kathy potentially, yeah,

506
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.000
<v Speaker 2>because it just doesn't really seem like Kathy's mL to me.

507
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>No, No, okay, well you do have to remember some

508
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:03.920
<v Speaker 1>of these tendencies that she was starting to do before

509
00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:05.119
<v Speaker 1>she was.

510
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Changing a bit. I guess, yeah, okay, because I'm thinking,

511
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:13.279
<v Speaker 2>like the og Kathy, the og Kathy, and this is

512
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.759
<v Speaker 2>not like a two point zero version, this is a negative.

513
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now. There were also reports that began circulating that

514
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:25.160
<v Speaker 1>apparently some nursing aids I'm assuming Kathy and Gwen in particular,

515
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:31.000
<v Speaker 1>but it's nursing aids. I'm encompassing all who were sneaking

516
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:37.200
<v Speaker 1>off for romantic encounters in unoccupied beds of the residency. Tish,

517
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.839
<v Speaker 1>with this information, took her concerns about Kathy and Gwen

518
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.759
<v Speaker 1>to the director of nursing and emphasized the two were

519
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:47.200
<v Speaker 1>jeopardizing the well being of those under their care. In

520
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:51.200
<v Speaker 1>a plea for intervention, she stated, quote, those two are

521
00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:56.640
<v Speaker 1>just no good for each other. However, upper management declared

522
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.480
<v Speaker 1>that their hands were tied, asserting that whatever staff choose

523
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.440
<v Speaker 1>to do on their breaks was beyond their control, leaving

524
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.960
<v Speaker 1>the chaotic atmosphere unchecked.

525
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, they're kind of in a tough position.

526
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:11.720
<v Speaker 2>If they already have a shortage, right, they can need

527
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:12.440
<v Speaker 2>these two.

528
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.000
<v Speaker 1>That's true. Yeah, they were dealing with quite a shortage

529
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.559
<v Speaker 1>as well. So yeah, and I don't I think that's

530
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:20.960
<v Speaker 1>a contrast between back in the eighties to now. It's like, yeah,

531
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:24.119
<v Speaker 1>during persons break, like you could go off and get

532
00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:26.720
<v Speaker 1>drunk the pub basically and come back and perform your work,

533
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.480
<v Speaker 1>whereas nowadays it's like, yeah, no way. It's a lot

534
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:34.559
<v Speaker 1>different from then now it's quite stark. One night now,

535
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.799
<v Speaker 1>on December nineteenth, eighty six, this marked a particularly distressing

536
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.960
<v Speaker 1>turn of events at Alpine Manor. Gwen showed up to

537
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:47.319
<v Speaker 1>work intoxicated so severe that she couldn't walk in a

538
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:52.839
<v Speaker 1>straight line well taking immedia action. Nice Nighthouse supervisor Tish

539
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.960
<v Speaker 1>pre Scott sent Gwen home and promptly reported the incident

540
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 1>to management, expecting that such behavior would warrant termination. And right,

541
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:01.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you showed up to work and you can't

542
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:03.960
<v Speaker 1>even stand. Yeah, it's one thing if you just had

543
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.480
<v Speaker 1>a beer or two, like you go off in your

544
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:07.720
<v Speaker 1>lunch break and you know, have some drinks, right, But no,

545
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:09.599
<v Speaker 1>she's sloshed, she's.

546
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Hammered like there's yeah, there's no way that she can

547
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:11.960
<v Speaker 2>do her job.

548
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.359
<v Speaker 1>No, she can barely walk, let alone do her job.

549
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:16.279
<v Speaker 1>She supposed to be caring for people. I don't think so.

550
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:20.160
<v Speaker 1>But however, to everyone's surprise, Gwen was back on shift

551
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:22.920
<v Speaker 1>the very next night at four thirty one am without

552
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:24.400
<v Speaker 1>any repercussions.

553
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I mean I feel bad for that. The supervisor too,

554
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:31.079
<v Speaker 2>I would like lose my absolutely. Oh.

555
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.359
<v Speaker 1>They're in a tough spot because they want something done,

556
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:35.319
<v Speaker 1>but they can't do it themselves without the okay from

557
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:38.279
<v Speaker 1>upper management, and the upper management's like, no, seems good

558
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:38.519
<v Speaker 1>for me.

559
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:42.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wow, I feel for her for sure.

560
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay. In that same faithful month, though, Nancy hand received

561
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.200
<v Speaker 1>in life altering call in the early hours of the night.

562
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:54.960
<v Speaker 1>The voice on the other end of the phone identified

563
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.920
<v Speaker 1>themselves as a nurse from Alpine manner and they informed

564
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Nancy that her mother, who was a resident there, Belle Burkhart,

565
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:06.920
<v Speaker 1>had rapidly been declining and might not make it through

566
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:07.279
<v Speaker 1>the day.

567
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh jeez.

568
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:12.119
<v Speaker 1>Now, Nancy lived three hours away from Alpine Manor and

569
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:16.160
<v Speaker 1>was unable to afford the day off, so she managed

570
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:18.480
<v Speaker 1>to do what she needed to do get through her

571
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:21.720
<v Speaker 1>long shift and then was hoping and in praying that

572
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:23.880
<v Speaker 1>her mother would still be alive when she was driving

573
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:24.880
<v Speaker 1>to the manor.

574
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:25.720
<v Speaker 2>After one.

575
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Upon reaching Alpine Manor, Nancy rushed to her mother's room

576
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:37.039
<v Speaker 1>to find it empty. Her mom wasn't in there. She

577
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.160
<v Speaker 1>went to the nursing station and asked where her mom was,

578
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 1>but none of the nurses had any information on where

579
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.119
<v Speaker 1>she was. The staff was kind of bewildered, and I

580
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:50.440
<v Speaker 1>mean so was Nancy, and Nancy's like, well, I received

581
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:52.640
<v Speaker 1>this phone call that she was like declining, what's going on?

582
00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Her mom? Bell was eventually discovered sitting in the dining room, alive, normal,

583
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.680
<v Speaker 1>completely fine, just with other residents, just doing her thing.

584
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Nancy was, of course relieved, but quite confused.

585
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, so.

586
00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:13.039
<v Speaker 1>She fed her mother dinner, and you know, the whole

587
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:15.799
<v Speaker 1>situation was just like what the fuck in the back

588
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:18.240
<v Speaker 1>of her mind. So she went and talked to the

589
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.400
<v Speaker 1>nurses and the nurse in charge, and they checked the records,

590
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:24.319
<v Speaker 1>and they revealed that no one logged a call to Nancy.

591
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.720
<v Speaker 1>There were no staff notes indicating any concern for Bell's health,

592
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:32.279
<v Speaker 1>and it became very painfully clear that Nancy was a

593
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:37.720
<v Speaker 1>victim of a cruel prank call orchestrated by someone on

594
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the night shift at Alpine Manor.

595
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that is just fucked.

596
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:46.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, isn't it. Holy shit, prank calling your mom's dying.

597
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:52.240
<v Speaker 2>That is not okay. Like now I'm just like pissed. Yeah, wow,

598
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I would have I would have just lost my absolute mind. Yeah,

599
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>like I literally would have just like, holy shit, that

600
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>is beyond.

601
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay, But that's exactly what happened.

602
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Wow. I mean it's good that the Mom's okay,

603
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:09.920
<v Speaker 2>but holy shit, that's just so.

604
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.400
<v Speaker 1>You don't do that to a person. You don't make

605
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:13.200
<v Speaker 1>it all like that.

606
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, she she couldn't afford to get there,

607
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:17.400
<v Speaker 2>so she had to like stress all day while she

608
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:20.319
<v Speaker 2>was trying to work. And then she obviously you know,

609
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:23.079
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have a lot of extra money, and she's spending

610
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.039
<v Speaker 2>a gas for six hour drive like with their and

611
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.319
<v Speaker 2>back yep, and then it has to probably go to

612
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:35.759
<v Speaker 2>work the next day tires fuck yep. Wow, Okay, yep.

613
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:38.279
<v Speaker 1>That's all I can say is yep, because everything you

614
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:40.759
<v Speaker 1>said was right. But yet that whoever this person was

615
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.480
<v Speaker 1>who made this call doesn't really seem to care. They

616
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:44.319
<v Speaker 1>just think it's funny.

617
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:46.240
<v Speaker 2>That is an absolute animal.

618
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, concerns, of course, were coming forward, especially regarding

619
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:55.440
<v Speaker 1>the quality of care at Alpine Manner. An anonymous complaint

620
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:59.240
<v Speaker 1>was lodged with Michigan Health Department in late nineteen eighty six,

621
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:05.559
<v Speaker 1>the facility under scrutiny. Disturbing reports surfaced depicting residents who

622
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:09.319
<v Speaker 1>were left in soiled incontinence garments for extended periods of

623
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:13.599
<v Speaker 1>time and received very infrequent baths only once a week.

624
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:17.640
<v Speaker 1>So basically they're just someone called in saying that, like, hey,

625
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:20.440
<v Speaker 1>people are just like soiling themselves. No one's changing or

626
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:24.839
<v Speaker 1>cleaning them. It's getting bad now. The high turnover rate

627
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:29.119
<v Speaker 1>among staff was part of the problem, with one hundred

628
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 1>and twelve nurse aids hired and seventy one of them

629
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 1>leaving by October that same year was identified as this

630
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:41.119
<v Speaker 1>key contributing factor. In response to the public outcry, Alpine

631
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Manner underwent an unannounced visit from a health inspector. The

632
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.839
<v Speaker 1>facility had undergone noticeable changes from what we discussed at

633
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:51.599
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of this podcast, with the atmosphere described now

634
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:57.079
<v Speaker 1>as eerie by one staff member. Residents were seemingly treated

635
00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:00.559
<v Speaker 1>like children, spoke to in childlike voices, and as such,

636
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:03.440
<v Speaker 1>even had their hair styled into pigtails to match it.

637
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

638
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:10.039
<v Speaker 1>The previous diverse craft room was now featured only chill

639
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.960
<v Speaker 1>children's coloring books with a handful of crayons, and there

640
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.759
<v Speaker 1>was cartoon pictures taped to the walls. Wheelchair bound residents

641
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:21.039
<v Speaker 1>were left unoccupied, all just pushed together with nothing to

642
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:25.039
<v Speaker 1>engage them, while a local radio station blared over the

643
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:28.319
<v Speaker 1>PA systems in an attempt to drownded out the unsettling

644
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:30.160
<v Speaker 1>sounds of residents with dementia.

645
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow, and this is all because of Gwen and Cathy.

646
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Hey like that many people are leaving because they're just

647
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:43.000
<v Speaker 2>disturbed by I mean, their actions and the environment that

648
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:43.640
<v Speaker 2>it's creating.

649
00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do want to say that I believe there

650
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:50.240
<v Speaker 1>was a high turnover rate still before them, but I'm

651
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:54.799
<v Speaker 1>sure they were a contributing factor to the current high rate.

652
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:57.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, because all these people like they're in demand,

653
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:01.960
<v Speaker 2>they can easily go somewhere else and get it another job, right, Yeah, definitely.

654
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.559
<v Speaker 2>So it's like, if you're not completely happy, why wouldn't

655
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:05.880
<v Speaker 2>you just find another facility to or?

656
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Of course, now, a post inspection report was issued and

657
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:14.280
<v Speaker 1>it found that Alpine Manor was adhering to state guidelines

658
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:19.119
<v Speaker 1>and practicing safely. No further follow up was deemed necessary.

659
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:21.079
<v Speaker 2>How the fuck was that determined?

660
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:25.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. You got me, okay? Now, Upper management

661
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:29.199
<v Speaker 1>continued to offer their praise to Kathy and Gwen, labeling

662
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.519
<v Speaker 1>them as extremely hard workers who often took double shifts

663
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.119
<v Speaker 1>to compensate for understaffing. I mean, we know they took

664
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:38.920
<v Speaker 1>double shifts, but I guarantee you it wasn't for understaffing.

665
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Gwen in particular, demonstrated her competency by scoring an impressive

666
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:49.000
<v Speaker 1>ninety seven percent on a test administered by the State

667
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Health Department, further complicating issues and claims against her. The

668
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:58.039
<v Speaker 1>state department examiner in regards with Gwen adorned her competency

669
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:02.320
<v Speaker 1>test papers with words great on every single page and

670
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:07.199
<v Speaker 1>a big old smiley face. I think we've all worked

671
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:10.480
<v Speaker 1>with a Gwen who just pulls the wool over management's eyes.

672
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, it's just so interesting the divide that can

673
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.000
<v Speaker 2>happen right between like upper management and then people like

674
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:19.760
<v Speaker 2>supervisors or whatever that are actually within the field.

675
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh definitely, it's.

676
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Really like alarming and quite disheartening. Really.

677
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And I can tell you I've been a supervisor

678
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.719
<v Speaker 1>in the field and I've had that disconnection between upper

679
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:36.760
<v Speaker 1>management and it's it's disheartening to the point where, hey,

680
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.000
<v Speaker 1>I left that job and I left in a hurry.

681
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not good.

682
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:47.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So apparently Gwen's creative approach to care, particularly her

683
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.320
<v Speaker 1>use of wash cloths, drew admiration from the department. See

684
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.280
<v Speaker 1>Gwen was known for carrying wash cloths, often seen with

685
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:57.360
<v Speaker 1>one flapping out of her back pocket of her pants

686
00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:59.760
<v Speaker 1>at all times. So what she would do she would

687
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.199
<v Speaker 1>roll all these wash clops cloths into like a log

688
00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:05.480
<v Speaker 1>shape and place them in residents clenched hands to prevent

689
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.159
<v Speaker 1>fingernails from digging into their skin. Makes sense to me,

690
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:13.559
<v Speaker 1>Totally good, right now. Kathy and Gwen foster this tight

691
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:17.199
<v Speaker 1>knit circle of friends at work, but none of not everyone.

692
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:20.960
<v Speaker 1>I'll say that, not everyone bought into their camaraderie. Some

693
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.679
<v Speaker 1>staff members saw Kathy and Gwen as bullies and liars

694
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:29.239
<v Speaker 1>who wielded power through intimidation. In one disturbing incident that

695
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 1>occurred was sorry, one that did occur was when Kathy

696
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.599
<v Speaker 1>falsely accused a disliked fellow aid of neglecting to change

697
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.079
<v Speaker 1>soiled garments overnight. The charge nurse. The nurse in charge

698
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:44.519
<v Speaker 1>right accompanied Kathy to investigate the claim, and they discovered

699
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:48.679
<v Speaker 1>a resident lying in a puddle of urine, when in reality,

700
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:53.800
<v Speaker 1>what happened Kathy had enlisted Glen. Sorry, Gwen, don't know

701
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:56.880
<v Speaker 1>where I got Glenn from. Enlisted Gwen to pour cups

702
00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.960
<v Speaker 1>of water over the resident's legs to create the appearance

703
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:05.239
<v Speaker 1>of neglect. Gwen, as quoted in later years acknowledged the

704
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:09.760
<v Speaker 1>fear Kathy instilled in others, stating, quote, everybody was scared

705
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:13.400
<v Speaker 1>of Kathy. Kathy would mess with you. That was just

706
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:15.400
<v Speaker 1>her thing, and everybody knew it.

707
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Wow, I mean I don't honestly, just the more

708
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:23.159
<v Speaker 2>I hear, don't blame how many people are leaving there?

709
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:24.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh, definitely not.

710
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

711
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.639
<v Speaker 1>And her manipulations were further exposed in another encounter with

712
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:32.079
<v Speaker 1>a difficult resident. So this was a man who was

713
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:37.000
<v Speaker 1>known to yell all day and he would quickly silence

714
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:40.920
<v Speaker 1>just at the sight of Kathy. And whenever she entered

715
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:43.880
<v Speaker 1>the room, she would leaning close and she would whisper

716
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:48.360
<v Speaker 1>in his ear. With that, a look of fear would

717
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:51.840
<v Speaker 1>across his face. And when asked by a nursing aid

718
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:56.320
<v Speaker 1>who witnessed this, Kathy told her what she said, and

719
00:37:56.360 --> 00:38:02.239
<v Speaker 1>she said, quote, I said, go ahead, scream one more time,

720
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.840
<v Speaker 1>but look at me. I'm bigger than you. I'm huge.

721
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.119
<v Speaker 1>In fact, you are helpless. I'm not.

722
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:10.000
<v Speaker 2>You.

723
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Scream one more time and I will kill you and

724
00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:15.480
<v Speaker 1>there's nothing you can do to stop me.

725
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Hm. Wow.

726
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:22.320
<v Speaker 1>I think I would shut up and be scared shitless too. Yeah,

727
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.159
<v Speaker 1>and I'd be screaming all the time, try and get

728
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:24.559
<v Speaker 1>out of there.

729
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:26.719
<v Speaker 2>This is like a resident, right, this is a resident.

730
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, this.

731
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Is an elderly resident who is There's clearly something going

732
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:34.960
<v Speaker 1>on with his mental health as well, because he's screaming

733
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:35.400
<v Speaker 1>all day.

734
00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:37.639
<v Speaker 2>Ah oh wow.

735
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Now, the aide who witnessed this didn't know what to

736
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:43.599
<v Speaker 1>do in response, but she was frightened the potential repercussions

737
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.239
<v Speaker 1>from Kathy and Gwen because they're known for their bullying

738
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:49.199
<v Speaker 1>and their intimidation. So she chose not to report the

739
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:50.400
<v Speaker 1>incident to management.

740
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, honestly, though, I feel like reporting it may

741
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:56.119
<v Speaker 2>not have even.

742
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:58.519
<v Speaker 1>Done anything, Probably not, and that's probably part of the

743
00:38:58.559 --> 00:38:59.440
<v Speaker 1>reason why she didn't.

744
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:01.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

745
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:04.599
<v Speaker 1>Now, one night, nursing aid Lodonna, working the night shift,

746
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:08.199
<v Speaker 1>encountered eighty seven year old Carla Pierce, who had been

747
00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:11.000
<v Speaker 1>at the facility for six years at this time and

748
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:16.159
<v Speaker 1>was battling dementia. Carla usually was lucid and was now

749
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:21.800
<v Speaker 1>screaming with terror, claiming that someone was going to kill her. Now, previously,

750
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.119
<v Speaker 1>the doctor had ordered Clara's wrist to be tied to

751
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:27.320
<v Speaker 1>the bed due to recent incidences of her wandering the halls.

752
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:31.920
<v Speaker 1>At night. So I mean she was just strapped to sleep, right,

753
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:35.920
<v Speaker 1>so she didn't get in harms way sort of thing. Yeah. Lo. Donna, however,

754
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.800
<v Speaker 1>realized Clara. I released Clara to a company or to

755
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:42.360
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom and then back to bed, and as she

756
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.960
<v Speaker 1>attempted to reapply the restraints, Clara pleaded not to be

757
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:51.400
<v Speaker 1>tied up, insisting someone was coming to kill her. Despite reassurance,

758
00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Donna left Clara alone, strapped to the bed, gripped with fear.

759
00:39:56.559 --> 00:40:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh that is this. Okay, this is just so uncomfortable

760
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:04.639
<v Speaker 2>to listen to because it's just so sad. It's so sad.

761
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:08.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, should I keep going? Are you going to stop here?

762
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:10.519
<v Speaker 1>That's the episode?

763
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:13.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, we have to keep going. But this is

764
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:17.199
<v Speaker 2>just getting worse and worse. It's a little bit scary.

765
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:19.599
<v Speaker 1>Well that's backtrack just a little bit to someone a

766
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.400
<v Speaker 1>little more familiar. Well, we're not going to backtrack. It's

767
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:24.159
<v Speaker 1>the same timeline, but we're going to talk about someone

768
00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:27.280
<v Speaker 1>we know about. On Christmas Day in nineteen eighty six,

769
00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Ed Chambers visited his wife Marguerite at Alpine Manor, accompanied

770
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:35.880
<v Speaker 1>by their daughter Jan. Now. Disturbingly, Jan found Marguerite with

771
00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:39.639
<v Speaker 1>dried food around her mouth. Now, this indicated neglect since

772
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:41.760
<v Speaker 1>her last meal, right, she had eaten and no one

773
00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:43.920
<v Speaker 1>has been helping your care for her since.

774
00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

775
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:50.159
<v Speaker 1>So when Jen attempted to clean her mother's face, Marguerite

776
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:55.719
<v Speaker 1>reacted very oddly. Unable to speak due to her advanced Alzheimer's,

777
00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:59.039
<v Speaker 1>Jen noticed a significant change in her mother. A very

778
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:02.840
<v Speaker 1>haunting expression of absolute terror was now on her face.

779
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:07.719
<v Speaker 1>In the week prior, Marguerite had been primarily cared for

780
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:14.320
<v Speaker 1>by Kathy and Gwen. Marguerite's condition deteriorated physically, and on Sunday,

781
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:18.320
<v Speaker 1>January eighteenth, nineteen eighty seven, Ed Chambers returned to find

782
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:23.840
<v Speaker 1>his wife unresponsive. Despite efforts to revive her, Marguerite passed

783
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.599
<v Speaker 1>away at the age of sixty.

784
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow, okay, oh, I didn't want you to bring her back.

785
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:35.639
<v Speaker 2>I just thought they had this like, well, it wasn't

786
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:37.360
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful life, but I really liked.

787
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:41.119
<v Speaker 1>Ed and it was romantic sort of size situation.

788
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Then yeah, But I mean, yeah, I mean it was

789
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:47.400
<v Speaker 2>inevitable that she was probably going to pass away, But

790
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.639
<v Speaker 2>it does seem like maybe she could have lasted longer

791
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.440
<v Speaker 2>if she wasn't neglected. But I don't know. Yet yeah.

792
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Now, following protocol, the charge nurse contacted the on call doctor,

793
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:02.039
<v Speaker 1>who unwillingly her sorry, unwilling to travel through the heavy

794
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.079
<v Speaker 1>snow that was currently on the roads and everything, ordered

795
00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Marguerite to be transferred to the mortuary over the phone.

796
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:09.920
<v Speaker 1>The doctor signed her death certificate citing a heart attack

797
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:15.039
<v Speaker 1>without any physical examination of her body. Three weeks later,

798
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:19.199
<v Speaker 1>on February third, a nurse at Alpine Manor noticed blood

799
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:21.920
<v Speaker 1>dripping from the nose of ninety five year old resident

800
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Myrtle Loose, though she applied a compress and made a

801
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:29.280
<v Speaker 1>note that the incident didn't raise some real concerns. Right,

802
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.920
<v Speaker 1>I means she's older, and Myrtle was a victim of

803
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.719
<v Speaker 1>a stroke and organic brain syndrome, which generally meant she

804
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Speaker 1>spent her days in a fetal position except when her

805
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:41.480
<v Speaker 1>son visited and triggered momentary awareness and she would get

806
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:45.719
<v Speaker 1>a smile on her face. But the disturbing pattern continued

807
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>at Alpine Manor, with Cathy openly expressing her hate from

808
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.920
<v Speaker 1>Myrtle due to her high care needs and she found

809
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:56.519
<v Speaker 1>her too challenging to care for a week. After Myrtle

810
00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:02.239
<v Speaker 1>received treatment from an unexplained nosebleed. Myrtle was found lifeless

811
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:05.400
<v Speaker 1>in bed. This time, her nose appeared to be bruised

812
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:09.000
<v Speaker 1>and covered in mucus, with a rolled up washcloth laying

813
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.639
<v Speaker 1>beside her.

814
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know what to say anymore at this point.

815
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:22.239
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, because Okay, the rolled up washcloth is like

816
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:26.840
<v Speaker 2>an indication that, like when I guess was there or Kathy, I.

817
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Guess Gwen was the one who would do it.

818
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Oh my gosh, Okay, this is just so disturbing.

819
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Where's your head at? I'm curious.

820
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:39.559
<v Speaker 2>I think that these two are murdering assholes. Is where

821
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:42.719
<v Speaker 2>my head's at. And I'm freaking pissed about it. Okay, Okay,

822
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Like I have an extreme hatred towards them right now,

823
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:52.599
<v Speaker 2>and I hope that I am semi satisfied at the

824
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.159
<v Speaker 2>end of this that they get what is coming to them.

825
00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:00.119
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Well, similar to the previous incident with Marguerite, the

826
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Alpine Manner, doctor, without examination, sent Myrtle's body directly to

827
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.800
<v Speaker 1>the mortuary, listing the cause of death as a heart attack.

828
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Myrtle's death came as a surprise to her loved ones,

829
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:14.239
<v Speaker 1>as she had recently just undergone a physical examination the

830
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:18.719
<v Speaker 1>day prior, with a doctor praising her apparently impeccable health,

831
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:21.960
<v Speaker 1>healthy heart, and here she is a week later having

832
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:24.639
<v Speaker 1>a heart attack, an alleged heart attack by the doctor

833
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:25.840
<v Speaker 1>who didn't even examine her.

834
00:44:26.199 --> 00:44:28.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I kind of get the doctor situation,

835
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:31.159
<v Speaker 2>because I mean a lot of people are dying in there,

836
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:31.880
<v Speaker 2>right and.

837
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:33.440
<v Speaker 1>It's a part of the atmosphere.

838
00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:36.199
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but still it needs to have attention.

839
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:38.639
<v Speaker 1>He still needs to do his fucking job.

840
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

841
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Now, days later, Kathy and Gwen invited Kathy's ex girlfriend

842
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Don to their home. This was the girlfriend in between

843
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:50.199
<v Speaker 1>her ex husband and Gwen that lasted like two weeks.

844
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay, okay, So he invited.

845
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:53.199
<v Speaker 1>Don to their home.

846
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Now.

847
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:56.599
<v Speaker 1>During a casual gathering in their living room, Gwen casually

848
00:44:56.639 --> 00:45:00.880
<v Speaker 1>mentioned her responsibility for Myrtle's death, Dawn if she wanted

849
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:01.440
<v Speaker 1>to see.

850
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:05.559
<v Speaker 2>Proof, just casually yep, like casually mention that I'm a

851
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:06.320
<v Speaker 2>fucking asshole.

852
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Pretty much, okay, cool. So in her bedroom, on a shelf,

853
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:15.800
<v Speaker 1>she had a single sock that apparently belonged to Myrtle. Now, Initially,

854
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Dawn struggled to wrap her head around the claim of

855
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:23.559
<v Speaker 1>this I killed her sort of thing, and this sock

856
00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:27.039
<v Speaker 1>is hers. She considered the possibility that the parents stolen

857
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:29.400
<v Speaker 1>the sock from Myrtle, or that it actually belonged to

858
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:33.719
<v Speaker 1>Kathy and they were trying to just like basically screw around,

859
00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:37.159
<v Speaker 1>play a prank or something. I mean they always did, right. Yeah,

860
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:41.000
<v Speaker 1>She's just like, Okay, maybe this isn't actually what's going on.

861
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:45.760
<v Speaker 1>But the unsettling incidents at Alpine Manor after this only

862
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:49.039
<v Speaker 1>seemed to continue, with the mysterious deaths of residents raising

863
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:52.840
<v Speaker 1>more questions about the facility's care. On the morning of

864
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:57.480
<v Speaker 1>February sixteenth, nineteen eighty seven, nursing aid Sean attended to

865
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.760
<v Speaker 1>seventy year old May Mason, who had all Zeimer's disease

866
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:04.519
<v Speaker 1>and appeared agitated. Despite Sean's attempt to freshen her up

867
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:08.960
<v Speaker 1>with a damp washcloth, May resisted, grabbing and swiping at

868
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:13.199
<v Speaker 1>the cloth. When Sean returned later, May's skin had turned

869
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:17.079
<v Speaker 1>gray and her fingernails were blue. She was pronounced dead

870
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:22.840
<v Speaker 1>at four am. May's family physician attributed her death to

871
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:26.320
<v Speaker 1>cardiac arrest, marking the second death in a span of

872
00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:31.280
<v Speaker 1>six days following Myrtle Loose. The following day, seventy four

873
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.880
<v Speaker 1>year old Belle Burchard around I'm sorry, another resident at

874
00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Alpine Manor, was discovered with bruising around her nose and

875
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:42.800
<v Speaker 1>right cheek. Due to her history of seizures, the injury

876
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:46.159
<v Speaker 1>was attributed to a presumed unwitnessed seizure during the night,

877
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:50.000
<v Speaker 1>assuming that she must have smacked her head on the

878
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:52.440
<v Speaker 1>like the bed frame or.

879
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Something like that. Yeah.

880
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:58.639
<v Speaker 1>On February twenty sixth, Kathy would volunteer to supervise the

881
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:04.000
<v Speaker 1>nurse's station during a break. At three am, Bell would

882
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:08.840
<v Speaker 1>be found dead in her bed. Examination of her remains

883
00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:12.320
<v Speaker 1>revealed an odd angle of Bell's arm beneath her body

884
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:17.480
<v Speaker 1>with noticeable bruising. Kathy's nursing friends suggested that the bruising

885
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:21.559
<v Speaker 1>might be a result of an inadequate turning during the night.

886
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:25.679
<v Speaker 1>The matter was dismissed and Bell's body was sent to

887
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:27.800
<v Speaker 1>the mortuary without a doctor's examination.

888
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Once again, Oh my gosh, are they actually beating these people?

889
00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh that is just that makes me just feel so ill,

890
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:37.119
<v Speaker 2>like so ill.

891
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:40.920
<v Speaker 1>I can't say anything just yet. We'll get there, We'll

892
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.800
<v Speaker 1>get there, okay. Cat As the number of sudden deaths

893
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:47.960
<v Speaker 1>at Alpine manor continued to rise, Kathy and Gwen and

894
00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:52.400
<v Speaker 1>their associates spiraled further out of control. On their days off,

895
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.440
<v Speaker 1>the couples hosted wild parties at their home with drinking

896
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:59.079
<v Speaker 1>and some drug use, where staff and attendants would run

897
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.199
<v Speaker 1>up and down the street, popless and it just got

898
00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:05.880
<v Speaker 1>worse from there. The disorderly group, for no apparent reason,

899
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:09.760
<v Speaker 1>frequently got into physical fights at pubs and clubs. Nursing

900
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:13.519
<v Speaker 1>Aid LaDonna, during one altercation, had two teeth knocked out.

901
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:18.559
<v Speaker 1>Reflecting on their behavior later in later years, Laddnna remarked, quote,

902
00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:21.119
<v Speaker 1>we had all gone crazy. We didn't care for each

903
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.679
<v Speaker 1>other's feelings. We didn't have any feelings.

904
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

905
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:30.000
<v Speaker 1>In April of nineteen eighty seven, the situation reached a

906
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:33.280
<v Speaker 1>new low when Nursing Aid Katherine had a black eye

907
00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:36.719
<v Speaker 1>and a sling in her arm and apparently cracked ribs.

908
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:40.440
<v Speaker 1>She initially attributed who injuries to an accident, but the

909
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.960
<v Speaker 1>truth emerged and Kathy had lured her to a deserted

910
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.719
<v Speaker 1>area with a pretext of hooking up. Gwen confronted Catherine

911
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:52.679
<v Speaker 1>and violently knocked her to the ground and began repeatedly

912
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:56.119
<v Speaker 1>punching and kicking her in the chest and stomach. When

913
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:59.119
<v Speaker 1>questioned about the incident later on at work, Gwen smiled

914
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:03.559
<v Speaker 1>and replied, I wouldn't do something like that. Oh, she's

915
00:49:03.639 --> 00:49:06.880
<v Speaker 1>disturbing and she faced no consequences.

916
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:08.079
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

917
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:13.400
<v Speaker 1>Reports of Kathy and Gwen's toxic behavior flooded management. Yet

918
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:17.079
<v Speaker 1>the manager and friend of Kathy dismissed the bullying reports

919
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:21.239
<v Speaker 1>and decided to separate Kathy from the aids who were

920
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.800
<v Speaker 1>making the allegations against her. In another way, instead of

921
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:30.519
<v Speaker 1>addressing the issue, she solved this problem by giving Kathy

922
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:31.920
<v Speaker 1>a promotion.

923
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's honestly what I thought you were going to say. Wow.

924
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.679
<v Speaker 1>She was now in charge of the nursing aids on

925
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:38.280
<v Speaker 1>her shift.

926
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh my word.

927
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Kathy's promotion to Alpine Manor, however, created a riff in

928
00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:48.119
<v Speaker 1>the relationship with Gwen, who believed she deserved the promotion more.

929
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:52.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't think either of them deserve a promotion, but whatever.

930
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.679
<v Speaker 2>They deserve something, but not a promotion.

931
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Uh. Their dynamics at home because of this were deteriorating,

932
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:02.920
<v Speaker 1>leading to frequent arguments fights which like occasionally escalated further

933
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:07.559
<v Speaker 1>into actual physical violence. The walls their home was now

934
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:11.519
<v Speaker 1>rather holy, with fist marks going through drywall as they

935
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:15.159
<v Speaker 1>were punching in fits of rage. And it only escalated

936
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:18.719
<v Speaker 1>even more when Kathy learned about Gwen's affair with another

937
00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:23.000
<v Speaker 1>nursing aid, and screams could be heard at other houses

938
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.000
<v Speaker 1>down the street.

939
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Man, these two are just wild, man.

940
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:32.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and Kathy's fury would ultimately leave Gwen with a

941
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:35.239
<v Speaker 1>visible with a bunch of visible like scratches and bruises

942
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:37.840
<v Speaker 1>and stuff as she's coming to work and stuff. People

943
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:41.599
<v Speaker 1>could see that there's definitely domestic violence occurring within their

944
00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:46.000
<v Speaker 1>home by nineteen eighty seven. By mid nineteen eighty seven,

945
00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Gwen decided she had had enough and moved out of

946
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Kathy's home. Joining her was Heather Barker, a twenty one

947
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:56.280
<v Speaker 1>year old nursing aid from Alpine, Manor who became Gwen's

948
00:50:56.440 --> 00:50:59.960
<v Speaker 1>new girlfriend. Together, the two plotted to leave gran Rap

949
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:04.079
<v Speaker 1>and start a new life in Gwen's hometown in Texas. However,

950
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Kathy discovered their plans and confronted Gwen, insisting that she

951
00:51:08.199 --> 00:51:11.000
<v Speaker 1>come back home with her forget all this, and after

952
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:15.440
<v Speaker 1>a heated argument between the two, Gwen did exactly that.

953
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:18.000
<v Speaker 1>She agreed and she went back home with Kathy.

954
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:18.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

955
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:21.880
<v Speaker 1>From there, they both went back to Kathy's home and

956
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:25.679
<v Speaker 1>the two immediately went to the bedroom. Kathy then revealed

957
00:51:25.719 --> 00:51:28.800
<v Speaker 1>some restraints she had taken from Alpine Manor, and she

958
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:32.760
<v Speaker 1>began binding Gwen's wrist to the bed. With Gwen now bound,

959
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:40.719
<v Speaker 1>assuming for sexual reasons, Kathy then held a loaded gun,

960
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:44.480
<v Speaker 1>a gun that belonged to Gwen. She took the gun,

961
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:47.639
<v Speaker 1>walked to the foot of the bed, and inserted the

962
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 1>loaded gun barrel into Gwen and threatened to kill her.

963
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Holy shit, quote, I'll kill you. That's exactly what she said,

964
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:02.519
<v Speaker 1>with the gun now inside of her, the barrel loaded

965
00:52:03.079 --> 00:52:03.719
<v Speaker 1>inside of her.

966
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, this woman. Okay.

967
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:10.239
<v Speaker 1>Kathy left Gwen like this, tied up for three hours,

968
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:15.599
<v Speaker 1>with the barrel of the loaded gun still inserted. She

969
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:19.800
<v Speaker 1>returned three hours later and released her. Following this and

970
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:24.360
<v Speaker 1>a discussion, Kathy and Gwen mutually agreed to end the relationship.

971
00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Gwen reunited with Heather, who questioned, like, Hey, why'd you

972
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:31.800
<v Speaker 1>go back to Kathy, and Gwen could only respond with, quote,

973
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:34.079
<v Speaker 1>Kathy has something over me.

974
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:38.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, she seems like she's kind of that type

975
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:41.079
<v Speaker 2>of person, but not that Gwen is an angel either, so.

976
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, I want to That's kind of what I thought

977
00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:46.239
<v Speaker 1>when I was first researching this, But I really want

978
00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:49.960
<v Speaker 1>to break this sentence down. Kathy has something over me.

979
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:54.360
<v Speaker 1>What could something mean? It could mean a lot of things.

980
00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Our initial response is she has something over me, like

981
00:52:56.800 --> 00:52:59.519
<v Speaker 1>she has my heart, or like she just has this

982
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:02.679
<v Speaker 1>way about her that really draws me in. But she

983
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.559
<v Speaker 1>has something over me. Could mean a lot of things. Well, now,

984
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:06.679
<v Speaker 1>could mean information.

985
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.679
<v Speaker 2>I was just kind of thinking, maybe Kathy is the

986
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:15.360
<v Speaker 2>one that's getting when to kill these people, and so

987
00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:17.719
<v Speaker 2>she has that she has that exactly.

988
00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:20.880
<v Speaker 1>It could mean a lot more than just oh, she

989
00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:22.880
<v Speaker 1>has this way about her that draws me in or

990
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:24.960
<v Speaker 1>something like that, you know what I mean. There's much

991
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:28.159
<v Speaker 1>more than this superficial level of what you first hear

992
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.639
<v Speaker 1>when you read that sentence or get it read to

993
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:34.760
<v Speaker 1>you or whatever. There's more to it, I think than

994
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:39.079
<v Speaker 1>we could ever know noep So, Gwen and Heather in

995
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:41.920
<v Speaker 1>August of nineteen eighty seven, packed their belongings into Gwen's

996
00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:46.679
<v Speaker 1>car and fled Texas. Left with nowhere else to go,

997
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:51.079
<v Speaker 1>Kathy returned to her ex husband Ken. She confessed to

998
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.199
<v Speaker 1>Ken about the disturbing acts that she and Gwen had

999
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:56.599
<v Speaker 1>committed while working at Alpine Manor. Expressing fear and desire

1000
00:53:56.679 --> 00:54:01.440
<v Speaker 1>to disclose the truth, she demanded Ken and his assurance

1001
00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:04.639
<v Speaker 1>of secrecy before divulging the most shocking of all the details.

1002
00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:10.280
<v Speaker 1>After Ken promised to keep everything confidential, Kathy posed a

1003
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:14.960
<v Speaker 1>chilling question to him, quote, what's the worst thing you

1004
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.519
<v Speaker 1>could think of to do to someone? Murder is what

1005
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:22.599
<v Speaker 1>came to mind when Ken thought of that. He said, well,

1006
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:26.480
<v Speaker 1>murder someone, I guess to kill them, And Kathy responded

1007
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:30.719
<v Speaker 1>by saying, quote, well try six times.

1008
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

1009
00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.840
<v Speaker 1>She recounted the story of one of the victims, ninety

1010
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:41.159
<v Speaker 1>seven year old Edith Cook, a beloved resident of Alpine

1011
00:54:41.239 --> 00:54:45.199
<v Speaker 1>Manor for six years. Edith once described the facility as

1012
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:50.360
<v Speaker 1>grand and lovely. She had suffered a rapid decline in health,

1013
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:55.000
<v Speaker 1>developing pressure sores and painful gangrene. On the night of

1014
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:58.400
<v Speaker 1>April seventh, nineteen eighty seven, Edith Cook was found dead

1015
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.679
<v Speaker 1>in her bed, with Kathy as the assigned night nurse

1016
00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:05.800
<v Speaker 1>and Gwen working the same wing. Ken tried to understand

1017
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:08.800
<v Speaker 1>if Kathy and Gwen had committed these acts to potentially

1018
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:12.400
<v Speaker 1>end the suffering of a resident, someone who's like their

1019
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:14.760
<v Speaker 1>health is so far gone. It's like more of a

1020
00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:17.119
<v Speaker 1>humane act to put him out of their misery sort

1021
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:19.480
<v Speaker 1>of thing. He's like, is that why, Yeah, to which

1022
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:24.079
<v Speaker 1>Kathy just replied, quote, no, we did it for fun.

1023
00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:27.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, for fun.

1024
00:55:28.199 --> 00:55:31.599
<v Speaker 1>She revealed that the idea initially to murder residents rose

1025
00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:34.360
<v Speaker 1>from boredom and the pair wondered what it would be

1026
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:38.679
<v Speaker 1>like to kill. Their first victim was sixty year old

1027
00:55:39.039 --> 00:55:43.559
<v Speaker 1>Marguerite Chambers. On the night of January eighteenth, nineteen eighty seven.

1028
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:47.440
<v Speaker 1>After Marguerite's husband left the night, Kathy and Gwen approached

1029
00:55:47.480 --> 00:55:53.000
<v Speaker 1>her room, and Kathy kept watching the door. Gwen slipped inside,

1030
00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:57.360
<v Speaker 1>armed with two washcloths rolled into log shapes. Kathy claimed

1031
00:55:57.400 --> 00:56:01.280
<v Speaker 1>that Gwen positioned one washcloth on to Marguerite's chin and

1032
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:07.119
<v Speaker 1>the other over her nose, squeezing tightly. Marguerite struggled to

1033
00:56:07.159 --> 00:56:11.679
<v Speaker 1>free herself, but Gwen easily overpowered her. Less than thirty

1034
00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:15.119
<v Speaker 1>minutes later, Marguerite was found lifeless.

1035
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

1036
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:20.679
<v Speaker 1>This, however, was not their first attempt. They had tried

1037
00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:25.960
<v Speaker 1>the same method a month earlier. Kathy explained to Ken

1038
00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:28.800
<v Speaker 1>how they aimed to spell out the word murder in

1039
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:32.480
<v Speaker 1>the log book by targeting residents with specific initials, so

1040
00:56:32.519 --> 00:56:36.519
<v Speaker 1>when they recorded individuals' names, they wanted to spell that

1041
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:38.280
<v Speaker 1>word with the first letter of their name.

1042
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:42.639
<v Speaker 2>You're shitting me. That's literally how they pitched these people.

1043
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:47.480
<v Speaker 1>It proved too challenging. The residents with the desired actual

1044
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:52.199
<v Speaker 1>initials were not ideal candidates. They were often like too

1045
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:55.239
<v Speaker 1>active or too lucid, So instead they chose victims who

1046
00:56:55.239 --> 00:56:59.239
<v Speaker 1>were nonverbal or suffering from advanced dementia, making it less

1047
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:03.760
<v Speaker 1>likely for them to communicate with their experiences. They feared

1048
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:05.960
<v Speaker 1>that like, okay, if this person whose name starts with

1049
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:08.760
<v Speaker 1>a you, for example, they're in too good a health.

1050
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:11.400
<v Speaker 1>If we can't get the job done and they scream

1051
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:15.159
<v Speaker 1>and we get found out, yeah right, so well, I.

1052
00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:17.119
<v Speaker 2>Mean because it was such a big facility, right as

1053
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:20.079
<v Speaker 2>then there's other people working there, oh the time?

1054
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:25.679
<v Speaker 1>Right, definitely? Yeah, you bet you so yeah. Now, to

1055
00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:28.960
<v Speaker 1>test the victims reactions, Kathy and Gwen would pinch their

1056
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:31.239
<v Speaker 1>nose while in bed, like, is this a good candidate?

1057
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:33.039
<v Speaker 1>We'll just pinch their nose. See how they fight off

1058
00:57:33.159 --> 00:57:35.440
<v Speaker 1>like their nose being pinched, right, And if a resident

1059
00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:38.000
<v Speaker 1>was too resistant, then they would move on to someone else.

1060
00:57:38.679 --> 00:57:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Residents who were found with unexplained bruising or bloody noses

1061
00:57:42.519 --> 00:57:45.639
<v Speaker 1>were the unfortunate subjects of their experiments.

1062
00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

1063
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:51.480
<v Speaker 1>So when it was time to carry out the murders,

1064
00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Gwen use washcloths as a mean to try and prevent

1065
00:57:55.159 --> 00:57:59.599
<v Speaker 1>visible bruising bruising. According to Kathy, Gwen claimed that killing

1066
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.519
<v Speaker 1>someone made her feel more relaxed and helped to ease

1067
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:07.000
<v Speaker 1>her tension. Both Kathy and Gwen believe that sharing the

1068
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:11.760
<v Speaker 1>dark secret of murder would solidify their bond forever. Huh,

1069
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:13.360
<v Speaker 1>which is fucked up?

1070
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm just so, they're literally like using one wash

1071
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.199
<v Speaker 2>cloth on their nose and another one under the chin.

1072
00:58:20.679 --> 00:58:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So they're holding their hand over their mouth, and

1073
00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:27.159
<v Speaker 1>then they're holding their other hand on the bottom of

1074
00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:29.360
<v Speaker 1>their chin to prevent their mouth from opening. So they're

1075
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:32.119
<v Speaker 1>holding their mouth clothes and then preventing oxygen from getting in.

1076
00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:35.639
<v Speaker 1>And they're using wash cloths as cushioning to prevent like

1077
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:38.079
<v Speaker 1>them hitting or scratching or scraping.

1078
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:44.840
<v Speaker 2>So, oh my gosh. Yeah, they are both so disturbed.

1079
00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:53.039
<v Speaker 2>That just is wild. There's more, okay, cool.

1080
00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:55.039
<v Speaker 1>We'll touch on some more of the information here a

1081
00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:55.519
<v Speaker 1>little bit.

1082
00:58:55.920 --> 00:59:00.800
<v Speaker 2>I cannot imagine. His name's Ken, right, Yeah, I do

1083
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:04.079
<v Speaker 2>not know what I would do if someone was confessing

1084
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:05.119
<v Speaker 2>that kind of shit to me.

1085
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Want to know the next sentence I have written for

1086
00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:10.920
<v Speaker 1>this case. Ken struggled with the decision of what to

1087
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:13.599
<v Speaker 1>do with the information Kathy had confided in him.

1088
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I just don't like, this was someone that

1089
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:20.360
<v Speaker 2>you have a child with that you loved, right, love

1090
00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:24.880
<v Speaker 2>or loved? I just I don't know that would the

1091
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:26.960
<v Speaker 2>the emotions that would be going through you.

1092
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, No, Ken had no idea what to do.

1093
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:31.000
<v Speaker 1>He's just like, what the fuck?

1094
00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Also, like, should I fucking run because it's just a

1095
00:59:34.039 --> 00:59:35.440
<v Speaker 2>murderer now.

1096
00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:38.760
<v Speaker 1>He actually kept her confession to himself for over a

1097
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:42.679
<v Speaker 1>year and a half while she was still working at

1098
00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Alpine manor.

1099
00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:49.880
<v Speaker 2>What. Yeah, I mean that is tough though, because like,

1100
00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:53.239
<v Speaker 2>but she could be killing more, like because she's the

1101
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:55.840
<v Speaker 2>mother of his kid. But then what she could be killing?

1102
00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.199
<v Speaker 2>I know, Well that was my question. Is she killing

1103
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:02.159
<v Speaker 2>more people during that time? Because then he's an accomplished

1104
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:07.079
<v Speaker 2>almost in my opinion, Yeah, did she kill more people?

1105
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:08.880
<v Speaker 1>We'll get into that.

1106
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, this is too much.

1107
01:00:11.599 --> 01:00:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, eventually, in October sixth, nineteen eighty eight, Ken made

1108
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:17.920
<v Speaker 1>a crucial decision. He was driving past a police station

1109
01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:20.760
<v Speaker 1>and in that moment, he turned around the vehicle went

1110
01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:24.119
<v Speaker 1>inside to report Kathy's alarming elevation revolution.

1111
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:27.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm very shocked that it took that long, but okay,

1112
01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:27.559
<v Speaker 2>that's good.

1113
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, and they actually questioned him on like why it

1114
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:31.559
<v Speaker 1>took him so long to come forward, and he explained

1115
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:33.159
<v Speaker 1>that he didn't want to destroy his life or his

1116
01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:37.880
<v Speaker 1>wife's life. Where's kid's life? Yeah, you bet, but he

1117
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.840
<v Speaker 1>felt a responsibility to make sure that she wasn't dangerous,

1118
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:44.000
<v Speaker 1>which it means like a year and a half, she

1119
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:45.119
<v Speaker 1>could have done a lot more damage.

1120
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Still, well, she was probably promising to him that she

1121
01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:49.920
<v Speaker 2>would never do it again kind of thing. Right, Yeah,

1122
01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:50.960
<v Speaker 2>he's manipulated.

1123
01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she definitely is. We know that for sure. So

1124
01:00:54.760 --> 01:00:57.599
<v Speaker 1>now the next day, Kathy was at work when a

1125
01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:02.559
<v Speaker 1>detective arrived at Alpine manorout expressing surprise, whatsoever, we're asking

1126
01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:06.400
<v Speaker 1>any questions? She has grabbed her coat and accompanied the

1127
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:07.559
<v Speaker 1>detective for questioning.

1128
01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, yeah, just peace like just just so

1129
01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:15.119
<v Speaker 2>evil that, you know, that they're there for you.

1130
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, with the interview with the authorities, Kathy admitted

1131
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:22.159
<v Speaker 1>to her involvement in the murders, confirming the death of

1132
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:27.639
<v Speaker 1>five victims, Marguerite Chambers, May Mason Bell, Burkhardt, Edith Cook,

1133
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and Myrtle Loose. She suggested that there might have been

1134
01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:35.079
<v Speaker 1>three more victims killed by Gwen, but Cathy claimed not

1135
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:39.000
<v Speaker 1>remembering the details or asserting that she wasn't present at

1136
01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:40.960
<v Speaker 1>work during those instances.

1137
01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:44.000
<v Speaker 2>I think she would a remember and be it just

1138
01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:49.719
<v Speaker 2>dawn on me. These families are now going to have

1139
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:53.239
<v Speaker 2>to find this out, like, oh, it's just gut wrenching.

1140
01:01:53.360 --> 01:01:56.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, to make it worse, like during when they're interviewing her,

1141
01:01:56.079 --> 01:02:00.000
<v Speaker 1>she actually openly described planning these these crimes as quote,

1142
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:03.320
<v Speaker 1>almost exciting in a way. How do you think a

1143
01:02:03.320 --> 01:02:04.800
<v Speaker 1>family members is gonna feel when they hear that?

1144
01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:10.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wow, because all these family members chose to put

1145
01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:13.719
<v Speaker 2>their loved ones in there, made that really hard decision.

1146
01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:16.280
<v Speaker 2>And then like.

1147
01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:17.719
<v Speaker 1>That's counting on these nurses.

1148
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:20.960
<v Speaker 2>It's just something that you I don't think, I mean

1149
01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:23.599
<v Speaker 2>not that you should, but you would feel guilt and

1150
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:27.519
<v Speaker 2>you shouldn't and oh, I just okay, this is too

1151
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:29.039
<v Speaker 2>much well.

1152
01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:32.760
<v Speaker 1>She recalled specific details, such as the night when Gwen

1153
01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:36.440
<v Speaker 1>murdered seventy nine year old May Mason. So Gwen had

1154
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.320
<v Speaker 1>initially informed Kathy of her intention, but Kathy warned her

1155
01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:41.719
<v Speaker 1>that it wasn't right time due to the presence of

1156
01:02:41.719 --> 01:02:45.199
<v Speaker 1>two nurses nearby, and Kathy had actually been assigned to

1157
01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:47.719
<v Speaker 1>a different wing, so it looked suspicious if she's over

1158
01:02:47.719 --> 01:02:52.119
<v Speaker 1>in this wing, right, So to avoid detection, Kathy did

1159
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.000
<v Speaker 1>go over to that wing, but she went over there

1160
01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:57.360
<v Speaker 1>with the intent of distracting the nurses with gossip and chatter,

1161
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:00.840
<v Speaker 1>so while she was doing that, Gwen slipped into May's bedroom.

1162
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Another close call actually occurred when Gwen killed Belle Burkheart.

1163
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Kathy had volunteered to supervise the nurse's station during the break. Right,

1164
01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:12.280
<v Speaker 1>we talked about that, and Gwen, equipped with two washcloths

1165
01:03:12.320 --> 01:03:15.800
<v Speaker 1>in her pocket, entered Bell's room while Kathy kept lookout.

1166
01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Kathy could hear noises over the inter calm, including rustling sheets, groaning, gurgling,

1167
01:03:22.119 --> 01:03:26.719
<v Speaker 1>which ceased after just a few minutes, so other residents

1168
01:03:26.840 --> 01:03:30.280
<v Speaker 1>would have heard her being murdered.

1169
01:03:32.320 --> 01:03:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, okay, yep.

1170
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:38.119
<v Speaker 1>And she was the one who was found with her

1171
01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:40.199
<v Speaker 1>arm in a strange position beneath her body.

1172
01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:41.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1173
01:03:41.119 --> 01:03:46.000
<v Speaker 1>So Kathy revealed that Gwen explained Belle had resisted fiercely,

1174
01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:48.320
<v Speaker 1>leading to the bruising on her arm caused by Gwen

1175
01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:50.199
<v Speaker 1>kneeling on it to restrain her.

1176
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Okay, like that's pretty like good for

1177
01:03:55.039 --> 01:03:58.320
<v Speaker 2>her for putting up a fight, because this is oh yeah,

1178
01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:02.039
<v Speaker 2>it's pretty disgusting when someone is doing this to people

1179
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:04.360
<v Speaker 2>that are, you know, like pretty helpless.

1180
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:09.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, it's well, I mean that's there's this general

1181
01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:12.800
<v Speaker 1>consensus within a lot of prison systems that if you

1182
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:17.599
<v Speaker 1>abuse women or children, you will get abused in prison

1183
01:04:17.920 --> 01:04:22.320
<v Speaker 1>because you are you are you're praying on those weaker

1184
01:04:22.360 --> 01:04:24.519
<v Speaker 1>than you physically, right yep. And I mean that's not

1185
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:26.719
<v Speaker 1>every case, but it's generally accepted sort of thing in

1186
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the prison system that's the case. And so that they

1187
01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:31.719
<v Speaker 1>look at you as weak and you don't like you're

1188
01:04:31.719 --> 01:04:33.960
<v Speaker 1>an asshole, you're a piece of shit, like you can't

1189
01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:37.079
<v Speaker 1>fight a fair fight. And that's what these two are doing.

1190
01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:40.000
<v Speaker 1>They're not fighting a fair fight. They're picking on those

1191
01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:43.239
<v Speaker 1>not only weaker, but they can't even speak out if

1192
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:51.280
<v Speaker 1>they fail. Man, Yeah, so when asked about Gwen's motivation

1193
01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:54.880
<v Speaker 1>for murder, Cathy suggested that Gwen enjoyed pain and painful things,

1194
01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:57.880
<v Speaker 1>possibly wanting others to feel pain due to the pain

1195
01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:02.119
<v Speaker 1>in her life as well. Kathy claimed that her roles

1196
01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:04.360
<v Speaker 1>in the murder ended because she grew tired of it

1197
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and no longer wanted to be a lookout. She never

1198
01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:09.880
<v Speaker 1>asked Gwen to stop because she wanted Gwen to be happy.

1199
01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:12.480
<v Speaker 1>While the original plan was for them to take turns

1200
01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:15.920
<v Speaker 1>as the murderer, Kathy could never bring herself to commit

1201
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:19.800
<v Speaker 1>the act. She explained, quote, those people in there were

1202
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:22.119
<v Speaker 1>like family to me, and I couldn't do that to them.

1203
01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, all of a sudden, you're just deciding

1204
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:27.519
<v Speaker 2>that you're like a good person for like a brief second.

1205
01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:30.159
<v Speaker 1>That's the biggest bullshit, piece of shit statement I've ever

1206
01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:30.840
<v Speaker 1>heard of my life.

1207
01:05:31.639 --> 01:05:34.320
<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting because at first it seemed like Kathy

1208
01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:37.480
<v Speaker 2>was like a good person. Yeah, So I don't understand

1209
01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:39.719
<v Speaker 2>what tainted her so bad. I don't know, or if

1210
01:05:39.760 --> 01:05:42.679
<v Speaker 2>she really actually wasn't a good person ever.

1211
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:46.679
<v Speaker 1>I really don't huh now. Kathy had also claimed that

1212
01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Gwen had kept mementos from each of the victims, as

1213
01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:52.960
<v Speaker 1>well a sock, a sock from Merla, loose jewelry from

1214
01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Bell Burkehart, an earring from Edith Cook, a key ring

1215
01:05:56.119 --> 01:06:00.519
<v Speaker 1>trinket from May Mason, and a balloon from Marguerite Chambers.

1216
01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Gwen allegedly stored these items in a shoe box in

1217
01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:09.000
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom, but when she moved out, she supposedly threw

1218
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the box away. Okay, so those are alleged items. Oh

1219
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:16.400
<v Speaker 1>they were never found.

1220
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay. I was thinking that she did actually keep

1221
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:20.519
<v Speaker 2>on to keep a hold of them.

1222
01:06:20.719 --> 01:06:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Nope, at least they were never found or recovered.

1223
01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:24.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

1224
01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:28.599
<v Speaker 1>As part of the investigation, police rated Alpine Manner and

1225
01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:31.880
<v Speaker 1>search files related to the resident's death. During the search,

1226
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:35.199
<v Speaker 1>detectives came across a letter written by Kathy, and the

1227
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:40.599
<v Speaker 1>letter expressed Kathy's feelings for Gwen and contained lines like quote,

1228
01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:43.800
<v Speaker 1>I love you, Gwen. I think you are great for

1229
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:47.760
<v Speaker 1>this afternoon. I cannot wait. That's when we'll wake up,

1230
01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:51.599
<v Speaker 1>and that's when I'll kiss you. That's when I'll hold you. Oh, Gwen,

1231
01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:55.639
<v Speaker 1>I miss you. In the course of the investigation into

1232
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:58.920
<v Speaker 1>the Alpine Manner murders, a poem was also discovered by Kathy,

1233
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:04.159
<v Speaker 1>and it read quote bunny hop over here and let

1234
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:07.239
<v Speaker 1>me lick you on the ear. Oh please, you'll say

1235
01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:11.480
<v Speaker 1>You'll be mine forever and five days. When question about

1236
01:07:11.480 --> 01:07:15.559
<v Speaker 1>that last line, be mine forever and five days, Kathy

1237
01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:19.519
<v Speaker 1>explained that it represented their take on Shakespeare's line forever

1238
01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:23.239
<v Speaker 1>and a day, except they added an extra day for

1239
01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:27.840
<v Speaker 1>every time they killed a resident. Wow, how fucked up

1240
01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:28.079
<v Speaker 1>is that?

1241
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Also, Kathy's poems are shit, like, she's just shit at everything,

1242
01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:40.159
<v Speaker 2>Like those poems suck. I'm just oh, I'm just so

1243
01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:44.000
<v Speaker 2>sitting over here, so disturbed and uncomfortable, and I just

1244
01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:45.639
<v Speaker 2>didn't enjoy those poems at all.

1245
01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:50.519
<v Speaker 1>I can't say I enjoyed them either. I like her

1246
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:54.480
<v Speaker 1>poems suck your piece of shit? Never write poems again?

1247
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:56.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

1248
01:07:56.239 --> 01:08:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Wow, definitely not gonna like snap the fingers at her

1249
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:04.320
<v Speaker 1>poem reading now anytime soon never Well. Six days after

1250
01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Kathy's ex husband first approached the police officers, they arrived

1251
01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:11.559
<v Speaker 1>at Gwen's residence in Texas, although no concrete evidence of

1252
01:08:11.639 --> 01:08:15.079
<v Speaker 1>murder had been uncovered yet. Gwen was arrested for writing

1253
01:08:15.159 --> 01:08:17.560
<v Speaker 1>bad checks three years earlier, in the hopes that she

1254
01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:19.560
<v Speaker 1>might crack while in jail.

1255
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:20.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

1256
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:24.960
<v Speaker 1>However, Gwen protested her innocence and even offered to take

1257
01:08:25.039 --> 01:08:30.439
<v Speaker 1>polygraph test. The results, unfortunately, were inconclusive, and Gwen was released.

1258
01:08:31.079 --> 01:08:35.039
<v Speaker 2>Seriously, okay, I'll keep listening because she better not be

1259
01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:35.840
<v Speaker 2>released for good.

1260
01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:40.159
<v Speaker 1>As part of the investigation, Kathy also took a polygraph test.

1261
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:42.600
<v Speaker 1>She seemed to play a subtle game during the test,

1262
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:46.000
<v Speaker 1>trying to manipulate the results, leading the examiner to believe

1263
01:08:46.079 --> 01:08:50.359
<v Speaker 1>that Gwen hadn't actually killed anyone, and Kathy being the manipulator,

1264
01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:53.279
<v Speaker 1>she is being the actual killer instead.

1265
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:58.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but she still knew stuff and was a part

1266
01:08:58.560 --> 01:08:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of it, so she's non innocent.

1267
01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.800
<v Speaker 1>Gwen. You mean, yeah, yeah, fair enough, But there is

1268
01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:07.760
<v Speaker 1>a big difference between accomplishing and actually killing. There is

1269
01:09:07.800 --> 01:09:09.680
<v Speaker 1>a big difference. But it doesn't mean you're not a

1270
01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:10.520
<v Speaker 1>piece of shit. You are.

1271
01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:14.000
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but I think Kathy was at like the

1272
01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:16.680
<v Speaker 2>nurses stations at times when I thought Gwen was murdering,

1273
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:17.880
<v Speaker 2>So I don't We'll see.

1274
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:20.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but that's all what Cathy said.

1275
01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:21.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very true.

1276
01:09:22.399 --> 01:09:26.960
<v Speaker 1>After six weeks of investigation, an excavator was brought to

1277
01:09:26.960 --> 01:09:29.880
<v Speaker 1>the Rosedale Memorial cemetery to eXeem the remains of Marguerite

1278
01:09:29.960 --> 01:09:35.319
<v Speaker 1>Chambers and Edith Cook at the okay of family.

1279
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:37.399
<v Speaker 2>Members, I know, but still the family having to be

1280
01:09:37.479 --> 01:09:39.880
<v Speaker 2>asked that horrible.

1281
01:09:39.800 --> 01:09:41.880
<v Speaker 1>There there was I don't think I kept it in here,

1282
01:09:42.199 --> 01:09:48.399
<v Speaker 1>but there was a a remark by Ed oh not

1283
01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:51.319
<v Speaker 1>ed about how he had to live through Marguerite's death

1284
01:09:51.439 --> 01:09:53.279
<v Speaker 1>once and now he doesn't want to do it again.

1285
01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. Yeah, or I feel so.

1286
01:09:56.720 --> 01:10:00.399
<v Speaker 1>Bad for ed But anyways, Marguerite and Edith were the

1287
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:02.960
<v Speaker 1>only two out of the five who had not been cremated.

1288
01:10:03.560 --> 01:10:07.479
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, So medical examiners were checking for washcloth fibers

1289
01:10:07.479 --> 01:10:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and signs of suffocation such as like stippling or whatever

1290
01:10:11.720 --> 01:10:14.279
<v Speaker 1>and that sort of thing, but due to decay, the

1291
01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:16.119
<v Speaker 1>results were inconclusive.

1292
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Dang.

1293
01:10:17.720 --> 01:10:21.720
<v Speaker 1>However, based on circumstantial evidence and the findings during the examination,

1294
01:10:21.840 --> 01:10:24.880
<v Speaker 1>the cause of death for Marguerite and Edith was changed

1295
01:10:24.880 --> 01:10:29.279
<v Speaker 1>from heart attack to homicide. On December fourth, nineteen eighty eight,

1296
01:10:29.319 --> 01:10:33.399
<v Speaker 1>detectives surrounded Gwen Graham's home in Texas, and with an

1297
01:10:33.439 --> 01:10:36.520
<v Speaker 1>arrest warrant in hand, they knocked on a front door

1298
01:10:37.399 --> 01:10:42.279
<v Speaker 1>and went unanswered. They were informed that several days earlier,

1299
01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:46.960
<v Speaker 1>her and her girlfriend had fled YEP. As they were

1300
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:49.520
<v Speaker 1>leaving the house, they went through a stop an intersection

1301
01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:51.920
<v Speaker 1>and a stop sign, and lo and behold who drives

1302
01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:56.840
<v Speaker 1>through the stopping the intersection? Gwen drives through the intersection,

1303
01:10:57.560 --> 01:10:59.199
<v Speaker 1>and a puller over and arrest her.

1304
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Is like the best kind of karma in the whole world, right, Like,

1305
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:06.319
<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, I am obsessed with that.

1306
01:11:06.560 --> 01:11:11.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Kathy Wood was also arrested just a few hours later.

1307
01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:15.960
<v Speaker 1>In January nineteen eighty eight, the Michigan Health Department conducted

1308
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:20.000
<v Speaker 1>its own investigation, finding that Alpine Manner managed to have

1309
01:11:20.800 --> 01:11:24.479
<v Speaker 1>actually acted appropriately and had no reason to suspect elder

1310
01:11:24.520 --> 01:11:26.399
<v Speaker 1>abuse at the time of the murders.

1311
01:11:26.760 --> 01:11:27.319
<v Speaker 2>Bullshit.

1312
01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:35.279
<v Speaker 1>I I'm on both sides of the fence in this one.

1313
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:39.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if there was specifically signs of elder

1314
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:44.439
<v Speaker 1>abuse per se. There may be some with bruising, but

1315
01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:46.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it was frequent enough to consider abuse

1316
01:11:46.960 --> 01:11:50.760
<v Speaker 1>because there was other potential attributing factors. Could they have

1317
01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:54.960
<v Speaker 1>investigated better better, Yes, by far. Could they have done

1318
01:11:55.039 --> 01:11:58.239
<v Speaker 1>things with their employees better, you fucking bet because they

1319
01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:02.520
<v Speaker 1>were not doing good. But I'm not certain of abuse

1320
01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:06.279
<v Speaker 1>specifically bad treatment. Yes, but I don't know. I'd have

1321
01:12:06.319 --> 01:12:08.800
<v Speaker 1>to really get into it to really research and really

1322
01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:10.439
<v Speaker 1>figure out where the line is for abuse.

1323
01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:15.279
<v Speaker 2>So you don't necessarily you wouldn't necessarily consider neglect abuse.

1324
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:18.880
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no care really well no, sorry, that's

1325
01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:20.359
<v Speaker 1>not what I mean. I'm not saying. No, I don't

1326
01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:24.159
<v Speaker 1>consider neglect abuse. Yes, I consider neglect abuse, but there

1327
01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:28.479
<v Speaker 1>is a when is neglect abuse? Yeah, And I don't

1328
01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:31.680
<v Speaker 1>know if the management would have been aware of the

1329
01:12:31.720 --> 01:12:35.680
<v Speaker 1>neglect at the extent it was, right, So I don't

1330
01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:38.680
<v Speaker 1>think they would have been aware to contribute that neglect

1331
01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:41.000
<v Speaker 1>to be abuse, because it's like, oh, we pushed them

1332
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:43.960
<v Speaker 1>in a circle, and like the ones in a wheelchair.

1333
01:12:44.000 --> 01:12:45.760
<v Speaker 1>It's like, oh, you pushed them in a circle for

1334
01:12:45.800 --> 01:12:48.399
<v Speaker 1>an hour yesterday, as long as you don't do that again,

1335
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:50.960
<v Speaker 1>and the employees promised, yeah, I won't do it again,

1336
01:12:51.119 --> 01:12:52.920
<v Speaker 1>but then they just keep doing it behind their backs,

1337
01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:53.800
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean?

1338
01:12:54.119 --> 01:12:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I mean those I feel like those management,

1339
01:12:57.479 --> 01:12:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the upper management, are very guilty.

1340
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Oh they're guilty, But I don't think that they had

1341
01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:08.239
<v Speaker 1>any reason to suspect elder abuse. They were not running

1342
01:13:08.279 --> 01:13:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the show properly by far. Yeah, but I think they

1343
01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:13.880
<v Speaker 1>were so out of the loop they had no reason

1344
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:15.960
<v Speaker 1>to suspect elder abuse. That's what I mean.

1345
01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:18.199
<v Speaker 2>And their problem is that they were out of the

1346
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:19.560
<v Speaker 2>loop and they shouldn't have been.

1347
01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:23.479
<v Speaker 1>I think they were neglect on their own employees and

1348
01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:30.159
<v Speaker 1>their own staff, their own facility, which in turn results

1349
01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:31.520
<v Speaker 1>in neglected elder abuse.

1350
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:32.039
<v Speaker 2>Right.

1351
01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:34.840
<v Speaker 1>I think they just had the wolf pulled over their

1352
01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:36.800
<v Speaker 1>eyes that much, is what I think.

1353
01:13:37.000 --> 01:13:39.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, at one point in time, the place

1354
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:41.960
<v Speaker 2>did run really well and was great exactly, and so

1355
01:13:42.680 --> 01:13:45.560
<v Speaker 2>then I mean eventually you would just probably be like, oh, yeah,

1356
01:13:45.560 --> 01:13:47.600
<v Speaker 2>that place is fine, like turn a blind eye.

1357
01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:51.279
<v Speaker 1>And if they had reason to investigate a death, maybe,

1358
01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:54.279
<v Speaker 1>but we had death certificates signed by doctor saying hey,

1359
01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:56.880
<v Speaker 1>heart attack, Oh that happens all the time.

1360
01:13:57.039 --> 01:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because these people were just too busy and just

1361
01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:00.479
<v Speaker 2>kind of assume.

1362
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:05.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I'm not saying management did right. Management fucking sucked. Okay. Yeah,

1363
01:14:05.279 --> 01:14:07.720
<v Speaker 1>I just don't know if I would say if I

1364
01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:10.439
<v Speaker 1>think I might agree that they had no reason to

1365
01:14:10.439 --> 01:14:13.960
<v Speaker 1>suspect elder abuse. Yeah, I could be wrong. I would

1366
01:14:13.960 --> 01:14:16.039
<v Speaker 1>have to really go into it to really really say.

1367
01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:20.199
<v Speaker 1>But Anyways, that aside, prosecutors did face a challenge in

1368
01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:23.560
<v Speaker 1>building the case against Gwen. There was only enough evidence

1369
01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:26.119
<v Speaker 1>to charge her with the murder of Marguerite Chambers and

1370
01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Edith Cook, the two women whose bodies were exhumed. The case,

1371
01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:34.840
<v Speaker 1>though heavily relied on Kathy's testimony, and without her cooperation,

1372
01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:39.239
<v Speaker 1>it risked falling completely apart. So in an effort to

1373
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:42.640
<v Speaker 1>secure Kathy's cooperation, the prosecution offered her a plea deal.

1374
01:14:43.199 --> 01:14:47.039
<v Speaker 1>If Kathy pleaded guilty two second degree murder and one

1375
01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:50.319
<v Speaker 1>account of conspiracy to commit murder, she would receive a

1376
01:14:50.359 --> 01:14:57.920
<v Speaker 1>more lenient jail sentence, impossibly even potential parole. Hmm, Okay,

1377
01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:01.159
<v Speaker 1>So Kathy accepted the deal.

1378
01:15:01.399 --> 01:15:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, of course she did, of course she did. Yeah.

1379
01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:08.920
<v Speaker 1>So this led to additional charges against Gwen, who was

1380
01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:11.680
<v Speaker 1>now charged with conspiracy to commit murder and the first

1381
01:15:11.720 --> 01:15:16.079
<v Speaker 1>degree murder of five residents of the Alpine Manor. Gwen's

1382
01:15:16.079 --> 01:15:18.760
<v Speaker 1>defense team was confidence that she would be acquitted. There

1383
01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:22.239
<v Speaker 1>was no washcloth fibers or fingerprints linking her to the victims.

1384
01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:24.920
<v Speaker 1>There's basically just like the case was just too weak.

1385
01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:30.159
<v Speaker 1>Despite the absence of physical evidence like mementos, for example,

1386
01:15:30.199 --> 01:15:33.239
<v Speaker 1>that she might have kept right in the defense's argument

1387
01:15:33.279 --> 01:15:36.279
<v Speaker 1>that Cathy had fabricated the story out of revenge. The

1388
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:41.039
<v Speaker 1>trial proceeded in September nineteenth Sorry September nineteen eighty nine,

1389
01:15:41.319 --> 01:15:44.319
<v Speaker 1>the trial began and the assistant prosecutor warned the jury

1390
01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:47.560
<v Speaker 1>that this is a bizarre case committed by bizarre people.

1391
01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Cathy told the court room about how she stood lookout

1392
01:15:52.920 --> 01:15:56.239
<v Speaker 1>while Gwen suffocated the victims of Alpine manner. She described

1393
01:15:56.279 --> 01:15:58.840
<v Speaker 1>herself as a victim of abuse by Gwen, stating that

1394
01:15:58.960 --> 01:16:00.680
<v Speaker 1>she had been tied to the ed with a gun

1395
01:16:00.760 --> 01:16:05.960
<v Speaker 1>inserted her into her vagina, when in reality was the

1396
01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:06.760
<v Speaker 1>other way around.

1397
01:16:07.159 --> 01:16:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

1398
01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:14.159
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution's final witness was Gwen's ex girlfriend, Heather, who

1399
01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:17.600
<v Speaker 1>confirmed that the two weren't together anymore, but were at

1400
01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:20.560
<v Speaker 1>the time when police were looking to arrest her. Heather

1401
01:16:20.600 --> 01:16:24.039
<v Speaker 1>recounted that Gwen admitted to her that she did, in

1402
01:16:24.079 --> 01:16:28.319
<v Speaker 1>fact commit murders the day the police came to question her. Okay,

1403
01:16:29.439 --> 01:16:32.119
<v Speaker 1>it didn't take the jury long to come to a consensus.

1404
01:16:32.199 --> 01:16:35.760
<v Speaker 1>After only six hours of deliberation, Gwen Graham was found

1405
01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:39.680
<v Speaker 1>guilty of first degree murder for five victims. And conspiracy

1406
01:16:39.720 --> 01:16:43.159
<v Speaker 1>to commit murder. As a result, she was sentenced to

1407
01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:48.039
<v Speaker 1>life in prison with no possibility of parole. The families

1408
01:16:48.079 --> 01:16:50.760
<v Speaker 1>of the victims gathered and they were all relieved by

1409
01:16:50.760 --> 01:16:53.800
<v Speaker 1>the verdict their loved ones could finally rest in peace.

1410
01:16:54.600 --> 01:16:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Ed Chambers, husband of Marguerite Chambers, expressed his desire for

1411
01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the death penalty, and his daughter jan stated this quote,

1412
01:17:03.439 --> 01:17:06.840
<v Speaker 1>my mother can finally rest in peace. The scars will

1413
01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:11.640
<v Speaker 1>always be there, but it helps knowing the truth. In

1414
01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:16.760
<v Speaker 1>October nineteen eighty nine, Kathy Wood received her sentence twenty

1415
01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:19.640
<v Speaker 1>to forty years in prison, with the possibility of parole

1416
01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:24.800
<v Speaker 1>after sixteen years with good behavior. Many, however, believed Kathy's

1417
01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:29.640
<v Speaker 1>involvement went far beyond a mere lookout. Former nursing staff

1418
01:17:29.680 --> 01:17:33.159
<v Speaker 1>member described her as manipulative, as a manipulative liar who

1419
01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:36.119
<v Speaker 1>deceived everyone involved in the case.

1420
01:17:37.640 --> 01:17:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1421
01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:44.439
<v Speaker 1>A hairdresser named Maureen have Haverhill received a disturbing or

1422
01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:48.159
<v Speaker 1>sorry recalled a disturbing encounter with Lucille van Derven, an

1423
01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Alpine Manner resident in late nineteen eighty seven. So you

1424
01:17:52.760 --> 01:17:57.079
<v Speaker 1>remember how you asked the question did anyone else? Was

1425
01:17:57.119 --> 01:18:01.119
<v Speaker 1>anyone else killed? While she can well, Kathy confessed to

1426
01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:03.279
<v Speaker 1>her husband in that year and a half time period,

1427
01:18:03.359 --> 01:18:07.920
<v Speaker 1>right right, So Lucille claimed someone had tried to smother

1428
01:18:08.039 --> 01:18:12.439
<v Speaker 1>her in her bed, but Marine dismissed this at the time,

1429
01:18:13.119 --> 01:18:15.439
<v Speaker 1>but later she realized the connection to the Alpine men

1430
01:18:15.720 --> 01:18:19.479
<v Speaker 1>Manner murders and the fact that her client Lucille might

1431
01:18:19.479 --> 01:18:20.520
<v Speaker 1>have been telling the truth.

1432
01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:22.399
<v Speaker 2>Now.

1433
01:18:22.439 --> 01:18:25.479
<v Speaker 1>The problem with this, however, it couldn't have been Gwen

1434
01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:29.520
<v Speaker 1>because she wasn't employed at the time. She had left

1435
01:18:29.920 --> 01:18:31.119
<v Speaker 1>five weeks prior.

1436
01:18:31.960 --> 01:18:36.039
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm, I know the fact that Kathy is getting less

1437
01:18:36.119 --> 01:18:41.239
<v Speaker 2>time than Gwen is kind of disturbing. Actually.

1438
01:18:42.279 --> 01:18:45.159
<v Speaker 1>Now, a former inmate claimed that Kathy would bragged about

1439
01:18:45.159 --> 01:18:49.159
<v Speaker 1>the murders in prison, showing clippings from newspapers and admitting, quote,

1440
01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:52.159
<v Speaker 1>I did the murders. I really got that, bitch back.

1441
01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:54.359
<v Speaker 1>That's what Gwen gets for breaking up with me.

1442
01:18:56.960 --> 01:19:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow, right, stay should have themted someone in her like

1443
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:02.960
<v Speaker 2>stall or something.

1444
01:19:03.079 --> 01:19:03.640
<v Speaker 1>No kidding.

1445
01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:05.399
<v Speaker 2>I feel like she would be one of those people

1446
01:19:05.399 --> 01:19:08.439
<v Speaker 2>that would just like divulge all the information bragging way

1447
01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:09.159
<v Speaker 2>you betcha.

1448
01:19:09.399 --> 01:19:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I have a feeling she would have too. M h. Now,

1449
01:19:12.560 --> 01:19:17.680
<v Speaker 1>in September twenty eighteen, Kathy would applied for parole oh No,

1450
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:20.760
<v Speaker 1>facing opposition for family members of victims who believe she

1451
01:19:20.840 --> 01:19:24.319
<v Speaker 1>showcased no remorse, and concerns about her potential released were

1452
01:19:24.319 --> 01:19:26.600
<v Speaker 1>heightened by fears that she might seek revenge on those

1453
01:19:26.640 --> 01:19:30.479
<v Speaker 1>who testified against her in court as well. Despite appeals

1454
01:19:30.479 --> 01:19:34.239
<v Speaker 1>from the victims' families and significant public outcry, Kathy Would,

1455
01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:38.560
<v Speaker 1>now fifty seven years old, was considered no longer a

1456
01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:39.520
<v Speaker 1>threat to society.

1457
01:19:39.880 --> 01:19:40.079
<v Speaker 2>No.

1458
01:19:40.359 --> 01:19:43.960
<v Speaker 1>After serving thirty years in prison, she was released and

1459
01:19:44.079 --> 01:19:48.079
<v Speaker 1>relocated to South Carolina to live with her sister. No,

1460
01:19:49.319 --> 01:19:49.840
<v Speaker 1>she's out.

1461
01:19:50.319 --> 01:19:51.479
<v Speaker 2>You're kidding me.

1462
01:19:51.880 --> 01:19:52.439
<v Speaker 1>She's out.

1463
01:19:53.199 --> 01:19:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, that's so disgusting.

1464
01:19:57.039 --> 01:19:59.960
<v Speaker 1>A retired detective who worked the case expressed his disagree

1465
01:20:00.199 --> 01:20:04.199
<v Speaker 1>with Kathy's parole, stating quote, I believe that Kathy Would

1466
01:20:04.520 --> 01:20:07.319
<v Speaker 1>was the mastermind. She was the one pulling the strings

1467
01:20:07.319 --> 01:20:11.159
<v Speaker 1>on Gwen. For safety reasons, I wouldn't want my grandchildren

1468
01:20:11.239 --> 01:20:14.760
<v Speaker 1>or elderly residents around her. She's a serial killer and

1469
01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:17.000
<v Speaker 1>she could do it again, and most of them do.

1470
01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:21.039
<v Speaker 2>M M. Well yeah, that's what literally is going through

1471
01:20:21.039 --> 01:20:24.439
<v Speaker 2>my head right now. She has she killed more people?

1472
01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, has she killed more people? Let's touch on that

1473
01:20:28.800 --> 01:20:29.439
<v Speaker 1>one more time.

1474
01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:31.279
<v Speaker 2>Are you serious? Ben?

1475
01:20:31.560 --> 01:20:34.399
<v Speaker 1>With her parole came the release of court documents that

1476
01:20:34.479 --> 01:20:39.399
<v Speaker 1>were previously withheld from public's view. With these documents, it

1477
01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:43.239
<v Speaker 1>was revealed that Kathy and Gwen were under investigation for

1478
01:20:43.319 --> 01:20:47.800
<v Speaker 1>a total of twelve deaths at Alpine Manor. However, a

1479
01:20:47.920 --> 01:20:51.359
<v Speaker 1>lack of evidence prevented these cases from proceeding to trial.

1480
01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:52.359
<v Speaker 2>HM.

1481
01:20:54.000 --> 01:20:57.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, wow, I want to touch one last thing on this.

1482
01:20:58.199 --> 01:20:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I did think, though, that you were going to tell

1483
01:20:59.920 --> 01:21:03.760
<v Speaker 2>me she had done more sins than out that we

1484
01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:05.159
<v Speaker 2>know of. Though I know that.

1485
01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:08.039
<v Speaker 1>As far as I'm aware, she's just under the radar,

1486
01:21:08.840 --> 01:21:12.000
<v Speaker 1>just live in life in one way or another.

1487
01:21:12.319 --> 01:21:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1488
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:15.279
<v Speaker 1>But the one of the more disturbing things I want

1489
01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:19.680
<v Speaker 1>to talk about this case that I find disturbing is

1490
01:21:20.079 --> 01:21:22.960
<v Speaker 1>the reactions of many citizens in the public in regards

1491
01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:26.720
<v Speaker 1>to the murders at the time. For example, before Kathy

1492
01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:29.119
<v Speaker 1>was sentenced, her ex husband Ken wrote a letter to

1493
01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:34.079
<v Speaker 1>the judge expressing this quote, Kathy is guilty of taking lives,

1494
01:21:34.479 --> 01:21:37.600
<v Speaker 1>or at least not preventing Gwen from taking them, But

1495
01:21:37.720 --> 01:21:40.560
<v Speaker 1>how much life did she really take? All the victims

1496
01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:44.840
<v Speaker 1>weren't even living. They enjoyed nothing, experienced nothing, and we're

1497
01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:45.560
<v Speaker 1>going to die.

1498
01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Whoa.

1499
01:21:47.800 --> 01:21:50.479
<v Speaker 1>This sentiment was shared by the majority of the public

1500
01:21:50.479 --> 01:21:51.840
<v Speaker 1>at the time of the murders.

1501
01:21:52.000 --> 01:21:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Seriously, yeah really yep.

1502
01:21:55.199 --> 01:21:57.439
<v Speaker 1>The main point of view for Kathy and Gwen back

1503
01:21:57.479 --> 01:21:59.600
<v Speaker 1>then was that they didn't deserve harsh sentences for their

1504
01:21:59.640 --> 01:22:02.439
<v Speaker 1>actions because they targeted weak and sick who are gonna

1505
01:22:02.439 --> 01:22:07.159
<v Speaker 1>die anyways, I don't give a shit. Yeah, that's to

1506
01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:08.920
<v Speaker 1>take a fucking life, No.

1507
01:22:09.680 --> 01:22:12.439
<v Speaker 2>Because I mean they still a lot of them, did

1508
01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:15.239
<v Speaker 2>still experience joy to some degree when they saw their

1509
01:22:15.279 --> 01:22:19.560
<v Speaker 2>family or whatever. And then it's also affecting more than

1510
01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:24.279
<v Speaker 2>just them, because it's like the families. That just doesn't

1511
01:22:24.279 --> 01:22:25.000
<v Speaker 2>make any sense.

1512
01:22:25.119 --> 01:22:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Those moments when Ed came to visit Marguerite and she

1513
01:22:29.319 --> 01:22:31.920
<v Speaker 1>seemed to go back to herself even for a moment.

1514
01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:34.119
<v Speaker 1>You can't tell me that's not living.

1515
01:22:34.640 --> 01:22:36.880
<v Speaker 2>No, that's oh gosh.

1516
01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:39.640
<v Speaker 1>They took that away from not only Marguerite, but also

1517
01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:42.840
<v Speaker 1>from Ed and his daughter jan and every other family

1518
01:22:42.840 --> 01:22:44.359
<v Speaker 1>member of every one of their victims.

1519
01:22:44.520 --> 01:22:47.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because they affected so many more people than just

1520
01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:53.680
<v Speaker 2>the victims. Yeah, holy heck, what a disturbing, fricking case.

1521
01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:57.279
<v Speaker 1>I know. So that is the Alpine Manner murders.

1522
01:22:57.199 --> 01:23:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Huh sorry, Yeah, I mean I remember right when we started,

1523
01:23:02.920 --> 01:23:05.399
<v Speaker 2>I did a nurse one. It was in Canada. I

1524
01:23:05.439 --> 01:23:08.600
<v Speaker 2>can't remember the lady's name, but it's just.

1525
01:23:08.600 --> 01:23:09.920
<v Speaker 1>She was one who was injecting people.

1526
01:23:10.079 --> 01:23:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like I think with like diabetic medicine or insulin.

1527
01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:15.479
<v Speaker 1>It was in some sort of insulin. Yeah.

1528
01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:19.319
<v Speaker 2>So it's just something about like people who have this

1529
01:23:19.399 --> 01:23:22.279
<v Speaker 2>sort of authority and like have literally said they're going

1530
01:23:22.319 --> 01:23:26.680
<v Speaker 2>to like help people. It just makes it kind of worse.

1531
01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it does. Realized our acam is out. Oh oh

1532
01:23:33.079 --> 01:23:34.600
<v Speaker 1>it would have lasted for a long time though, and

1533
01:23:34.680 --> 01:23:36.920
<v Speaker 1>this camera is about to die, so we should end

1534
01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:37.199
<v Speaker 1>this up.

1535
01:23:37.239 --> 01:23:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Should wrap this up.

1536
01:23:39.079 --> 01:23:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys so much for listening and watching. If

1537
01:23:41.039 --> 01:23:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you're watching over on YouTube, we appreciate you being here.

1538
01:23:43.720 --> 01:23:45.199
<v Speaker 1>If you want to check with the links down below,

1539
01:23:45.239 --> 01:23:49.520
<v Speaker 1>they're all down below Patreon, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, all of it.

1540
01:23:49.560 --> 01:23:52.119
<v Speaker 1>Is there that we have two YouTube channels, one where

1541
01:23:52.159 --> 01:23:53.800
<v Speaker 1>you can actually watch the podcast and one where you

1542
01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:55.760
<v Speaker 1>can look at our tiny home life just kind of

1543
01:23:55.800 --> 01:23:57.000
<v Speaker 1>logs chilling doing our thing.

1544
01:23:57.199 --> 01:23:58.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there you go.

1545
01:23:58.159 --> 01:24:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so thank you for being here. Hopefully with the episode,

1546
01:24:00.600 --> 01:24:03.439
<v Speaker 1>and until next time, stay wicked.