1 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Joy Pullman, the 2 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,239 executive editor here at the Federalist, joining me for a 3 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,600 special edition of the Federalist Radio Hour, Saint Patrick's Day edition. 4 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: We have doctor steel Brand. 5 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: He is a professor at Karen University and he is 6 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,079 the interim executive director of the John Jay Institute and 7 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,679 director of their Statesmanship Initiative. He is also the author 8 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:46,000 of Killing for the Republic, Citizen Soldiers. 9 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: And the Roman Way of War. And he's here. 10 00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:51,759 Speaker 1: Today to discuss Patrick, Saint Patrick of Ireland, the Great 11 00:00:51,799 --> 00:00:55,640 patron Saint of Ireland. Hopefully we will get into a 12 00:00:55,679 --> 00:00:58,359 lot more than turning the rivers green and drinking a 13 00:00:58,359 --> 00:01:01,920 lot over this day over the next half hour or 14 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,319 so that we're together, because he gave a talk recently 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,840 at my alma mater, Hillsdale College, and we're going to 16 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,480 kind of go into some of the details there of 17 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,959 his talk. Doctor Brand, Welcome to the show, Hi, Joyce. 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,519 Speaker 3: It's great to be here. Thank you so much for 19 00:01:17,519 --> 00:01:20,719 inviting me, especially to talk about Saint Patrick on Saint 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:21,439 Patrick's Day. 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,879 Speaker 2: It is it was a little bit special for me. 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: As I told you over email, I have this morning 23 00:01:27,599 --> 00:01:30,799 my corn, beef and cabbage in the crap pot waiting 24 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:31,359 for dinner. 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: I liked it. 26 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: It's actually super easy Saints meal dinner. I like to 27 00:01:35,879 --> 00:01:39,040 do special Saints Day meals with my kids. I am 28 00:01:39,079 --> 00:01:42,959 not a Catholic, but we're into Saints in my home 29 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,920 as liturgical Lutherans. Doctor Brand, would you start by telling 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,519 me what is your personal interest in Saint Patrick. 31 00:01:51,959 --> 00:01:55,359 Speaker 3: I can't remember when I first heard the real story 32 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:57,680 of Saint Patrick. You know, it might have been when 33 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,439 I had I had a I think the when it 34 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,840 really stuck, you know, I remember these moments when I 35 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:05,599 hear about these historical characters that I really like, the 36 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:07,760 moment that that sticks and you get intrigued, and then 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,639 sometimes you dig and it's like, well, there's nothing to 38 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:12,199 this story. And then sometimes you dig and there's a 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,000 lot to the story. There's a lot of richness, and 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,159 it's better than like the legends in the myth. There 41 00:02:16,159 --> 00:02:17,800 are a few people in history that have been that way, 42 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,080 and Patrick was definitely one of them. So I think 43 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,280 when I first heard about it, I was a father 44 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,719 reading a book like a children's book, really really great 45 00:02:27,879 --> 00:02:32,560 thirty two page picture book to my daughter and it 46 00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:35,039 was It's Tomy Topolo is like one of the best 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:35,719 children's off there. 48 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: I was just going to ask you which whether it 49 00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:41,520 was tom Bird or Tommy Okay, Yeah. 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 3: And I remember reading that and thinking, well, this is 51 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,120 this is cool. You know, I'd heard about the Patrick story. 52 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,639 I kind of knew bits and pieces here and there, 53 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,159 and so I went to the sources I read, you know, 54 00:02:52,159 --> 00:02:54,520 like a popular biography. I thought, oh, well, that's a 55 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,680 great story, and then I read some scholarship on it. 56 00:02:56,719 --> 00:02:59,560 And then I spent some time with the two texts 57 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,240 that we know a lot about from Patrick. And the 58 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,360 more I read, the deeper I got. The more I 59 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,520 went from kind of casual person interested in good stories 60 00:03:08,759 --> 00:03:10,759 to oh, a historian, and then looking at it as 61 00:03:10,759 --> 00:03:15,360 a scholar. The deeper I got into the wonderful, like 62 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,319 plain beauty of the story of Saint Patrick. 63 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,199 Speaker 2: And we'll tell us a little can you recap? 64 00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:26,719 Speaker 1: I would bet that a lot of our listeners don't 65 00:03:26,759 --> 00:03:29,800 know even just the Wikipedia version of you know, the 66 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,199 Saint Patrick's Dade Tailor, or you know, the picture book 67 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,439 version that you read with one of your children, that 68 00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:37,560 I read with my children yesterday and today. Can you 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,080 just give them, give them the summary of his biography. 70 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: Yeah so, uh. Patrick is actually not Irish by birth. 71 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,319 He is a Romano Britton, probably from Wales, maybe from 72 00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:55,319 Cornwall or thereabouts. But it looked a little different then 73 00:03:55,919 --> 00:04:00,599 loosely or not loosely but under the control of the Romans. 74 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,039 But it's still CAUs a lot of It's like British 75 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,400 and Celtic character in some ways he is. From what 76 00:04:07,479 --> 00:04:11,520 we know about him. He's probably named Patrick after his family, 77 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,759 being like a Roman family, like Patrick from Patrician, they're noble, 78 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,879 they're different. Theories is to where his name come from. 79 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,600 Name came from, but we don't know much about him 80 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:24,240 as a kid. What we do learn about him is 81 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,560 that he's raised by people who are a Christian, and 82 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,959 we're not sure why. We know his great grandfather and 83 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,480 his grandfather are a priest. His father's a deacon. It's 84 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,319 an interesting note that obviously we still have married clergy 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,959 at this time. But Patrick doesn't take his family and 86 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,160 the sort of urban elites Christianity very seriously. And the 87 00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:46,720 first thing we know for certain about him, aside from 88 00:04:46,759 --> 00:04:48,920 his name and the fact that he is the son 89 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,959 of a local big wig and a town called Benevem 90 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,399 Tabernie Eye, which we're not even entirely certain way it was. 91 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,879 The first thing we know about Patrick is he commits 92 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:03,879 some ray great sin and we don't even know what 93 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,560 the sin is, but it's bad. And theories are maybe 94 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,240 it's some sort of like sexual indiscretion, some kind of 95 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,560 fornication or something, but the way he talks about it 96 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,959 actually sounds more serious than that. Some people have suggested 97 00:05:15,959 --> 00:05:18,560 maybe it's murder, or some people have said, well, maybe 98 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,639 it was, Maybe it's it's idolatry. What about all three? 99 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,480 Maybe he's a part of some horribleli Maybe he's part 100 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,279 of some horrible religious ceremony where he's there's like there 101 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,759 it's like sacrifice or some kind of fornication or something 102 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,279 related to the gods. It doesn't matter. We don't know. 103 00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:37,480 It's it's serious. And then we know that as right 104 00:05:37,519 --> 00:05:40,600 after this happens, he's taken as a slave. He's seen 105 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,480 the Irish raiders pop in, they hit the coast, they 106 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,480 come to his house. His father's not there. Maybe he's 107 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,439 out doing Decourryan duties because they've heard there's a raid. 108 00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:49,879 We don't know his family isn't there. But he's there, 109 00:05:50,079 --> 00:05:52,360 he gets captured, he gets put on a boat and 110 00:05:52,399 --> 00:05:56,120 cart it off to Ireland and his life completely changes. 111 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,480 That's how we get Patrick from Britain to Ireland, and 112 00:05:59,519 --> 00:06:02,519 then he goes to Ireland and in Ireland he's a 113 00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:06,240 slave for six years and that's that's the beginning of 114 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,920 the story of Patrick. And that's when Patrick starts to 115 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,920 turn into the Patrick we know because when he's there, 116 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:14,680 he's not. He's heard stories as a little kid, probably 117 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,399 about how the Irish are kind of like monsters and 118 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,759 those barbarians over there on that island. And once you 119 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,800 get inside the interior, you know, beyond the pale literally, 120 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,399 because that's the way that later generations would talk about 121 00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:28,360 going into the interior of Ireland. Once you go beyond 122 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,240 the pale, h then you're in a land where these 123 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:35,160 these Irish will just attack you and they'll they'll eat 124 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,279 you alive, or they'll like they'll steal everything you have 125 00:06:38,519 --> 00:06:43,040 and then the least she'll do. Yeah, it's it's you know, 126 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,319 there's all these horror stories about them. But what he 127 00:06:45,399 --> 00:06:48,680 ends up, what ends up happening, is he is uh, 128 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,040 he's enslaved, he's bought probably on the eastern coast of Ireland, 129 00:06:52,199 --> 00:06:53,879 and he's taken all the way to the western coast, 130 00:06:54,319 --> 00:06:56,319 and he has a different kind of torture that's inflicted 131 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,680 on him. He's left alone. He's left to be a 132 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,439 slave shepherd of somebody we don't know. Later generations say 133 00:07:02,519 --> 00:07:06,040 the guy's name who takes him as Miluke. So he's 134 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,160 made a slave and he ends up watching cheap for 135 00:07:08,199 --> 00:07:10,759 six years. And we get the sense from his writings 136 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:13,199 because he tells us heyes, we have two letters from Patrick. 137 00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:16,839 We get the sense that he is all alone for 138 00:07:17,319 --> 00:07:21,439 hours and days and months at a time, and this 139 00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:27,439 is when he has to confront his own existence, his 140 00:07:27,519 --> 00:07:30,920 maker life, with what it's meaning, is what its purpose is, 141 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,759 because it's very different than being the spoiled aristocrat that 142 00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:37,240 he was. Now he's a slave who's actually being hardened 143 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,399 to living life out in the woods, in the wilderness, 144 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:41,759 in the forest. And what he does is he tells 145 00:07:41,839 --> 00:07:44,399 us this in one of his letters that probably the 146 00:07:44,399 --> 00:07:46,759 second of his letters. He tells us, I begin to pray, 147 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:48,800 and I begin to pray a lot, and I prayed 148 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,000 one hundred times a day, and I prayed one hundred 149 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,120 times at night and so he's praying all the time. 150 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,480 He's doing you know, like the movie Castaway, So Tom 151 00:07:56,519 --> 00:07:59,000 Hanks is alone, he's out on the island, and Tom 152 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,040 Hanks talks his own God figure. You know, it's a volleyball, right, 153 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,000 It's kind of a stupid idea, but like what are 154 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,839 you going to do when you're left alone? Castaway kind 155 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:09,920 of captures it with like you've got to talk to somebody, 156 00:08:09,959 --> 00:08:11,439 So who's going to talk to volleyball? I think what 157 00:08:11,439 --> 00:08:13,360 really would have happened is in Castaway, I would have 158 00:08:13,399 --> 00:08:14,879 been talking to God, like why am I here? 159 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:15,959 Speaker 4: What were you? 160 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,279 Speaker 3: What does this happen? And that's exactly what Patrick does. 161 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,560 But for Patrick, he starts really taking seriously the things 162 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,160 that he already knew about it, that he learned from 163 00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:25,600 his parents. And it's in Ireland, the land where he's 164 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,839 been enslaved, the land where everything has been taken away 165 00:08:27,879 --> 00:08:30,199 from him, that it begins to become a Christian. I 166 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,480 mean that's just sort of the that's the tippety icebery 167 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,600 of the beginning of Patrick's story, and that's what we 168 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:38,279 know about him. Should probably address a little bit of 169 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,240 like how do we know about Patrick? Before we get 170 00:08:41,279 --> 00:08:45,759 deeper into the story. Sure, So what are the sources 171 00:08:45,799 --> 00:08:49,799 about Patrick we've got I almost want to work backwards. 172 00:08:49,799 --> 00:08:51,919 We have lots of legends that have accumulated. You know, 173 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,679 he scares all the snakes out of Ireland, he teaches 174 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,000 with the shamrock. There are sources and there are annals 175 00:08:59,399 --> 00:09:02,159 that are written in the medieval period, the late medieval period, 176 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,919 and they put dates with all of the things about Patrick. 177 00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:07,840 If we go back a little further, we have two 178 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:10,840 biographies that are written two hundred years after Patrick died. 179 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,600 These two biographies are written by the one by mir Chu, 180 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,320 there's one by Trechin, and they have a lot of 181 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,960 similarity to Patrick's own story, but they put in a 182 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,399 lot of new information into the story. And so then 183 00:09:22,519 --> 00:09:24,639 we go back a couple hundred years before that, we 184 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,039 have a maybe some sayings. There are some canons that 185 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,960 are called the Cannons of Saint Patrick, but they're probably 186 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,360 by later Christians. Really, the only thing we know for 187 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:37,080 certain that is true and is good historical information about 188 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,080 Patrick comes from two letters. One is called the Declaration 189 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,039 or the Confession, and the second letter is called the 190 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,600 Letter to the Soldiers of Krotacus. And these two letters. 191 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:52,159 Nearly all scholars have joined in a consensus that they're authentic. 192 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,120 There's some who don't think that, but most scholars think 193 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,720 they're authentic. And these two letters are written by Patrick, 194 00:09:57,879 --> 00:10:00,799 and they tell us the story of someone who is 195 00:10:00,919 --> 00:10:04,200 very sincere, but he doesn't have the best education, and 196 00:10:05,039 --> 00:10:09,399 he longs he wishes that he could have been a 197 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:11,879 better writer in Latin. You can see that in the Latin, 198 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,399 the Latin of his two letters, they're clunky, they're not sophisticated. 199 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,720 If you compare it to another Britain like lagis he's 200 00:10:17,759 --> 00:10:19,919 a guy, he's a heretic in Britain he's writing at 201 00:10:19,919 --> 00:10:21,759 the same time, or if we compare him to Augustine 202 00:10:21,799 --> 00:10:25,639 the contemporary, the Latin is like terrible compared to Augustine's confessions, 203 00:10:25,919 --> 00:10:30,159 but Patrick's Latin is really bad. Okay, Well, why Well? 204 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,399 Because he was kidnapped as a fifteen year old or 205 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,480 sixteen year old right about the time he would have 206 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,039 begun a really sophisticated education he would have been getting 207 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,039 he would have started his track on rhetoric. And the 208 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,840 time that he's a slave learning how to endure like ours, 209 00:10:44,879 --> 00:10:48,879 temperatures take care of sheep, discovering God. When he's doing 210 00:10:48,879 --> 00:10:51,679 all that he normally back home would have been learning rhetoric. 211 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: So in the school of hard knocks, since yeah, he's. 212 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:56,799 Speaker 3: At the School of hard knocks, right, he's not doing that. 213 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,399 Like everything else that everyone would have seen that he 214 00:10:59,399 --> 00:11:02,200 would have enjoyed, he would have experienced if he'd been 215 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,320 back home. And so it's but it's these two stories 216 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,960 I think that are the most accurate that we can 217 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,679 get a lot of information out of them. So he's 218 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,720 a slave in Ireland, he writes us about this. He 219 00:11:11,799 --> 00:11:14,200 tells us about this in his book The Confession where 220 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,240 he has this autobiographical sections that pop in, but especially 221 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,639 at the beginning, and Patrick's big moment where he shifts 222 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:22,519 from being a slave to being something else is when 223 00:11:22,519 --> 00:11:24,120 he says he had a dream and there was a 224 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,240 voice and it's probably Victoricus, this person who comes to 225 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,039 visit him a couple of times, and Patrick has lots 226 00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:33,399 of dreams, but in this dream, the voice comes up 227 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,240 and says, see, your ship is ready. You need to 228 00:11:35,279 --> 00:11:38,720 go to the coast. So he basically breaks the law. 229 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,320 He escapes, but he doesn't go back east because that's 230 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,440 where everyone would have been looking for He probably goes 231 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:46,240 two hundred miles of the south, and he's broken the 232 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,919 law to be a runaway slave. He probably breaks the 233 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,320 law a lot more as he's stealing and trying to survive, 234 00:11:52,799 --> 00:11:54,679 taking his food. And then he gets all the way 235 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,240 to the southern coast and the people there. He goes 236 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,480 up to a boat and he says, hey, can you 237 00:11:59,519 --> 00:12:02,039 take me probably back home, but can you take me 238 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,159 with you? And you get this into that these people 239 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,240 look at them and say. 240 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:06,919 Speaker 4: No. 241 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 3: But then he goes and he praised, and then he 242 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:12,320 goes back and then they take him on the ship. 243 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,399 Now what happens there, Well, we hear about the story. 244 00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:17,679 They get on the ship. We don't know why they 245 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,519 took him when they wouldn't take him at first. And 246 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,960 then the travel for three days. They have trouble finding 247 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,279 a place to go. It takes them a long time 248 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,279 to get there. So they're not sailing back to Britain, 249 00:12:26,519 --> 00:12:28,480 or if they are, they're going in a roundabout way 250 00:12:28,759 --> 00:12:30,679 and we don't know where they land. But then once 251 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,559 they land, for twenty eight days they're wondering around and 252 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,399 they can't find any food. Well, if you're landing in 253 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:38,000 Brittany or even Cornwall or whales. That's weird. So there 254 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,879 have been lots of theories as to what's going on. Why, 255 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,919 Like was there some sort of devastation, this is the 256 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,960 time of the Roman Empires having trouble. It's like it's 257 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,759 a mystery. Well, if we put all the pieces together, 258 00:12:47,919 --> 00:12:50,840 we know that several times the pagan people on the 259 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:53,879 boat ask him to do strange things. One of the 260 00:12:53,919 --> 00:12:56,919 guys says, well, we want you to suck our nipples. 261 00:12:57,039 --> 00:13:00,240 What is that? Like, that's just strange right, Well, wi's 262 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,600 Patrick telling us this because that's a pagan ceremony and 263 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:05,000 he would not partake in the pagan ceremony. And then 264 00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:06,799 they say later that they had like some honey that 265 00:13:06,799 --> 00:13:09,759 they like consecrated or did something strange with and he says, oh, 266 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:11,600 I didn't take any of that either. So we get 267 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,399 the sense these guys are pagans. But why are they 268 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,120 having so much trouble getting places and why are they 269 00:13:18,159 --> 00:13:21,799 having trouble getting food? It's probably because these guys are 270 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,039 slavers themselves. They're slavers or pirates. They don't seem to 271 00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:28,360 be law abiding people. And we get the sense that 272 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,159 either Patrick sold himself into slavery to get passage, or 273 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:34,919 they took him and enslaved him again, and we don't 274 00:13:34,919 --> 00:13:37,159 even know how long they're there. This part of the confession, 275 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,080 it's about eight paragraphs, is the fuzziest part of the 276 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,080 whole confession. But one gets the sense that this is 277 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,120 not a good part of Patrick's life. And there's some again, 278 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:51,279 there's some sort of legal and moral boundaries that are pressed, 279 00:13:51,279 --> 00:13:54,679 and he's enslaved again. But after a few years he 280 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,720 finally gets loose from these people, whoever they are, and 281 00:13:58,759 --> 00:14:01,240 he goes back home. But the moment he gets back home, 282 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,840 he gets educated. Now his later biographers want to tell 283 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:07,679 us a whole cool story. Later biographers want to say, 284 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,960 and you know what he did. He went back home, 285 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,879 and then he went down to the continent and he 286 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:14,200 interacted with all the most famous people. There are these 287 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,240 great bishops, Bishop Grimanis and Amateur and Honoratus, and then 288 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:21,320 he studied under them like Paul studied under the feet 289 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,000 of Gamaliel. And basically they're saying, he went to Harvard 290 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:27,120 and Cambridge and Oxford, and then where did he go, Well, 291 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,720 he traveled down to Laryn. This is this great place 292 00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:33,200 where there's a big monastery that has been built. That's 293 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,720 where he studied. And then eventually he made his way 294 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,360 to Rome. He even goes to Italy and he meets 295 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,200 the Pope, and the Pope is eventually going to make 296 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,440 him a bishop. And when he goes and then he 297 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,360 goes back to Ireland. And when he gets to Ireland, 298 00:14:42,519 --> 00:14:44,480 he fights all the wizards and the Druids, and he 299 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,879 brings Christianity by defeating the wizards and the druids. And 300 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,480 there's these famous confrontations that he has with the Druids 301 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,320 in Ireland where he defeats them with magic, and like 302 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,120 they try to poison him and then he freezes the poison. 303 00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:00,159 And they try to bring snow and he dissolves it. 304 00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:02,639 He brings sunshine, and we almost get the sense it's 305 00:15:02,679 --> 00:15:05,399 like double Door fighting Voldemort a tour. It's like superheroes 306 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,559 battling one another. That's the biographer's story, right. Well, when 307 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,279 you read Patrick, none of those details are in there, 308 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,320 none of them, because that's not what really happened. What 309 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,559 really happened is Patrick. It seems the simplest explanation is 310 00:15:19,679 --> 00:15:21,559 he went back home and he was educated in Britain. 311 00:15:21,919 --> 00:15:24,879 But then when he was educated in Britain as a 312 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:27,159 part of being back home, part of trying to get 313 00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:29,840 his education back, which he never does a really good job. 314 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,279 He's never a crackerjack like writer. His Latin just never 315 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,639 turns out that good. But the important thing that happens 316 00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:39,519 to him when he's back home is Victor Ricus comes back, 317 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:42,879 and Victor Ricus comes to him, and there's this really memorable, 318 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,519 vivid scene that Patrick describes in his confession where Victor 319 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:48,559 Ricus comes and he's got a handful of this like 320 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,200 piles of letters, and he shows the letters to Patrick 321 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,480 and Patrick takes them and he looks at the letters 322 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,000 and what are the letters that the voice of the 323 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,120 Irish and the voice of the Irish are saying, Holy boy, 324 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,840 come back, Holy boy, come back and live among us. 325 00:16:01,919 --> 00:16:04,639 And he says they were calling from the forest of Fulkoot, 326 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,679 which is probably where he was in the region of 327 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,080 County Mayo. And this is where Patrick is summoned to 328 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,559 return again by a dream and it's his call, it's 329 00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:17,200 his call to a mission, and his mission is going 330 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,679 to be to go back to Ireland and to completely 331 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,840 change the fabric of Ireland and what it means to 332 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,240 be Irish. Now, he doesn't fully understand how that's going 333 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,799 to happen. We know that's what ends up happening. But 334 00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:34,919 he decides that I'm going to go back to the 335 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,320 land of my slavery, but I'm going to go back 336 00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:40,480 and I'm going to bring them Christianity. But I'm not 337 00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:42,759 just going to tell them the story of the Gospel. 338 00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:47,519 When you bring Christianity, Christianity in Patrick's mind, you're going 339 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,879 to bring a whole host of things. You're going to 340 00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:53,360 be able to change people's souls. You're going to put 341 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,200 things into their minds. You're going to alter the way 342 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,519 that they think about society. You're going to completely restructure 343 00:16:59,679 --> 00:17:02,639 their social and political ethics. You're going to bring literacy 344 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,440 because Christians there are people of the book. So when 345 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:08,440 Christianity comes to a place, stories start to be written 346 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,759 down and we get history and we know what happens 347 00:17:10,759 --> 00:17:13,160 to people. A lot of times in Pagan's societies, we 348 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,279 don't know what's going on. We don't know exactly what 349 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,440 happened because they're not literate. Well, Patrick is going to 350 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,920 bring all of these things back to Ireland, and he's 351 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,920 going to go as a bishop. Well, then the question 352 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:28,839 is okay, Well when does he go as a bishop? Well, 353 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,839 there are are there's there's another guy that enters into 354 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,720 the story of the conversion of Ireland. And this is 355 00:17:35,839 --> 00:17:38,880 a guy by the name of Palladius. Now who is Palladius. 356 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,440 Palladius seems to be chummy with all the most important 357 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,079 people in Italy, and especially the Reme the excuse me, 358 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,480 the Pope in Rome. And Palladius is the deacon to 359 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,359 the Pope, and he knows Prosper of Aquitaine. This guy, 360 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,839 this analyst who writes sort of the story of what's 361 00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:01,519 going on with Christianity from the perspective of the papal 362 00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:06,200 court in Rome. And Palladius is sent, we are told 363 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,880 by Prosper as the first bishop to Ireland. He probably 364 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,599 goes to the south. And Palladius is the guy who 365 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,839 supposedly begins the Christianization of Ireland. But the Irish themselves, 366 00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:22,480 when they talk about Palladius, they have a very different account. 367 00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:24,599 First of all, they hardly mention him at all, at 368 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,640 least in terms of the Christianization factor. But we have 369 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,079 a couple of traditions that come down. And one of 370 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,839 the traditions is that he gets martyred, so he goes there, 371 00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:37,559 he's just like he gets overwhelmed and martyred. Another tradition 372 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,000 is that he goes and he's only there for a 373 00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:41,000 little bit and then he flees. He goes up to 374 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:43,880 Scotland or somewhere else. Maybe he had some limited success. 375 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,200 But the strongest tradition is that he goes and he's 376 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,880 absolutely terrified by what he sees. And this is a 377 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,240 guy who's been hanging out in some of the nicest 378 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,759 places in the Roman Empire, and now he goes up 379 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:57,039 to this land beyond the frontier and he just can't 380 00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:00,720 deal with it. Either way, whatever happens with Palladius, most 381 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,319 of the accounts need to indicate his mission is a failure. 382 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:05,759 Why because he's not the guy. He doesn't have the 383 00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:08,000 skill set, he doesn't have the experiences that are needed. 384 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,960 He had really learned, he's got great connections, but he 385 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,640 doesn't have what Patrick has. That's two things, experience, but 386 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:18,599 more important, a really really clear understanding of his mission. 387 00:19:19,079 --> 00:19:23,279 And Patrick has the mission on the mind all the time. 388 00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:25,640 When I teach Patrick to my students, I said, read 389 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,640 the Confession and you tell me if you can find 390 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,799 a single person in history who is more dedicated to 391 00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:35,480 his mission than Patrick. It's very very clear for him. 392 00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:38,519 And so this is what gets us to the mission 393 00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:42,200 of Patrick and him finally coming to Ireland. Maybe he 394 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:46,960 begins as a deacon or a priest under Palladius, but 395 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,200 maybe he's just sent. It seems like when he gets 396 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,960 to when he becomes bishop, he's already in Ireland. That 397 00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:57,839 seems to be the case. Scholars disagree. Is he made 398 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,319 a bishop and then he goes or is their problems 399 00:20:01,319 --> 00:20:04,279 with making him bishop. It seems like his family and 400 00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:08,400 the British bishops are reluctant to make him bishop. And 401 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,319 there will be a couple of reasons for that. First 402 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,480 of all, he doesn't have good connections. Second of all, 403 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,759 he's not polished, and third of all, he's got a 404 00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:20,319 crazy idea. His crazy idea isn't let's just stay along 405 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,279 the coast. Let's christianize the areas along the coast, kind 406 00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:27,319 of increased trade, bring literacy that way, maybe increase some revenue. 407 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 2: For the church. 408 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 3: No. No, Patrick's idea is really intense. I'm going to 409 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,160 take Christianity deep into the interior as far as I can, 410 00:20:35,319 --> 00:20:37,599 into Ireland. And he would know that because that's where 411 00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:40,039 he lived. And when people hear this, his family is like, 412 00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:42,160 don't do this, don't leave us. We've already lost you. 413 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,119 We don't want to leave you again. And one gets 414 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,200 the sinks that the British bishops in Ireland really don't 415 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,079 want him to go do this either. But who else 416 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,160 is going to do it? Who else has the talents, 417 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,440 who else really wants to go and take on this 418 00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:58,160 huge project of going beyond the Roman frontier into what 419 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,039 everyone calls the ends of the earth, how Patrick describes Ireland. 420 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,200 Only Patrick can do that sort of thing. So at 421 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,039 some point we have Patrick, probably in the four thirties 422 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,920 or forties, becoming a bishop with the support, probably not 423 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,119 of the pope. It's not that the Pope is appointing him. 424 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,359 That's what later Irish analysts want to tell us that 425 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:21,440 probably the people who reluctantly appointed him as the Bishop 426 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,720 of the Irish are the British bishops in Britain, who 427 00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:29,880 then want Patrick to go and be an Irish bishop 428 00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:33,359 that can connect Ireland in some ways to the British. 429 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:34,799 But this is probably a good point for me to 430 00:21:34,839 --> 00:21:37,640 pause and see if you have any questions or follow up. 431 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:48,079 Speaker 4: Our sponsor today addresses a major concern, identity theft. 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You know, 458 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,240 so early four hundreds to mid late four hundreds is 459 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:39,119 about the estimated time of Patrick's life, as I understand, 460 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,640 and so I mean for me, I'm thinking, like you're saying, 461 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,000 this is really the end of the Roman Empire, and 462 00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:48,079 as you're saying, you know he's going into Ireland. It's 463 00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:50,559 very It's you know, the hinterlands, right, It's a place 464 00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:53,599 where people tell tales because they don't actually know the 465 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,920 so called civilized world doesn't really know what's going on 466 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,759 in there, so they just make things, scary things up. 467 00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:03,640 One of the things that I personally love about Patrick 468 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,119 is the Saint Patrick's breastplate, the hymn as well as 469 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:08,680 poem and. 470 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: Prayer that's come down. And I just love just how 471 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:12,400 old it is. 472 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: Right if you think this is four hundred a d. 473 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,799 You know, that's sixteen hundred years ago and we still 474 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,160 you know, and as you're saying, there's very good evidence 475 00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:22,920 for him being alive. 476 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: So there's you. 477 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: Know, some of the saints, like Saint Valentine, right, there's 478 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,240 not very good, if any, historical evidence, or there's conflicting accounts. 479 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,720 Saint Patrick has a pretty good you know, historical historical 480 00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:41,400 lineage and and reliable sources for him. And so I think, 481 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,440 you know, there's something that people have for many many 482 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,240 centuries found compelling about him, And what do you think 483 00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:49,920 those things are? Obviously he's very vibrant, maybe you might 484 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,720 even say, you know, one might even say aggressive, right, 485 00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:54,680 the courage to go to basically the outer wilderness, to 486 00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:57,400 go back and face people who had formerly enslaved you. 487 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,279 That always, you know, courage always in life and people. 488 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,039 What else do you think Saint Patrick accounts for how 489 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:03,920 compelling he is? 490 00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 3: Yeah? And I love that you pointed out the broader, 491 00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:11,160 the broader context. So we have a collapsing Roman world, 492 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,000 and in Britain it collapses soon. It's probably the Roman 493 00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:19,480 legions are withdrawing out of Britain around the time that 494 00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:22,880 he's probably enslaved. So there's a there's a space of 495 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,880 peace in there for the Britons until they get overwhelmed 496 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,359 by what they call the Barbarian conspiracy, the Picks coming 497 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,160 down from the north, the Irish rating from the west, 498 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,440 and then the Anglo Saxon's and jew to eventually take 499 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,839 over most of what we would know is England. So 500 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,680 this he's living in a world where there's a lot 501 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,599 to be afraid of, and yet he has courage. He 502 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,279 has his courage to go to where the places where 503 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:47,559 no one else would want to go. I think, like, 504 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,599 if we think about Patrick and what is the most 505 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,079 noble about him, I think I want us to have 506 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,680 like under two things that are really important to notice. 507 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,480 First of all, his vision of what it means to 508 00:25:58,519 --> 00:26:02,240 be a leader and then second of all his political 509 00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:04,799 theology for Ireland. And I think we can get a 510 00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:07,400 good sense for those based on those two letters that 511 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,960 we have. So the two letters that we have, we 512 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,279 have one that's the Letter to the Soldiers of Kroaticus. 513 00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:15,519 And then the second one is the one that I've 514 00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:18,240 referenced because it has a lot of autobiographical information. That's 515 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:22,160 the Confession. The confession was probably written at the very 516 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,279 end of his life, so maybe four fifties were entirely 517 00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:27,160 certainly lived. There's a debate of whether he should be 518 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,279 earlier or late, but this consensus is probably that he 519 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:35,440 dies sometime around seventeen March four fifty nine, although some 520 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,200 people think it's a little later. Some people that gets 521 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,400 a little earlier. But what are these two letters tell 522 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,119 us about him and his vision of leadership and then 523 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,440 his vision for what should define what it means to 524 00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:51,400 be Irish. Well, let's talk about his understanding of leadership. 525 00:26:51,559 --> 00:26:55,039 He references, I mean, it's about a dozen or more 526 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,559 times in these two short letters that Ireland is the 527 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,200 land of his slavery. Now, when he went there the 528 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,720 first time, it was involuntary slavery, but when he went 529 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:08,079 back the second time, it was voluntary slavery. And this 530 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,400 is how he describes his being, how he describes his 531 00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:17,599 being in Ireland. This is the land where God is 532 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,119 his master, and he's taking the gospel of them, and 533 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,480 he's reshaping their society. But the Irish are his service. 534 00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:27,480 That's the task. So as Milieu could set him out 535 00:27:27,559 --> 00:27:30,839 in the wilderness, you know, in the forest to watch 536 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,519 the sheep, God is sending him out to take care 537 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:36,720 of the Irish sheep. And not only so, what's really 538 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,599 beautiful is he talks about frequently. So he says, like, 539 00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:41,759 here's a quote, this is a land of my captivity. 540 00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:44,759 I'm bound by the spirit. There's another quote. To come 541 00:27:44,759 --> 00:27:46,519 to be with them for the rest of my life, 542 00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:49,799 he says. In the Confession, I give my freedom for 543 00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:54,039 the benefit of others. He frequently says, I'm ready to 544 00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:57,000 give even my life. I want to expend it to 545 00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:59,680 the point of death. And both of his letters, he's 546 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,000 always talking about it this way. In fact, we know 547 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,359 that he gets enslaved twelve more times. He talks about 548 00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:08,960 getting captured twelve more times, several times almost being put 549 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,319 to death. Well, who's capturing him. Well, he's gone into 550 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,960 Ireland and he is interacting with these Irish tyrants, these 551 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,319 little chiefs, and there's a little bit of a disturbance 552 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,599 in the fifth century and this north central part of Ireland, 553 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,720 and he's going in and how is he getting there, 554 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,720 he's probably sold everything he has back home. He sells 555 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,640 everything he's got. He's maybe got some backing from some 556 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,680 British tyrants back home. And when I say tyrants, I 557 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,880 mean like that's just kind of a form of lord 558 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,880 like that. Yeah, but it's like an an extraordinary form 559 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,119 of rule. They don't necessarily need to be vicious, although 560 00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:50,160 many times they are. But he gets probably sells everything 561 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,720 he's got or he can from his inheritance, and then 562 00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:55,279 he comes into Ireland. He'd probably starts spending this pretty soon. 563 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,119 He wants to build churches, and he needs to get oil. 564 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,079 He us to pay for food, and he's start negotiating 565 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,079 with the chiefs and the little kinglets in Ireland, and 566 00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:07,920 he's interacting with princes and they're giving a passage, and 567 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,079 you get this sense that he's actually really good at 568 00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:13,480 diplomacy and networking. But he also is again sort of 569 00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:16,960 pushing those legal boundaries about what is acceptable. And this 570 00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:19,039 is the kind of behavior that he has to he's 571 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:22,480 really good at. He knows very clearly where his moral 572 00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:25,119 center is, but he's going to break some of those 573 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,000 social and legal boundaries. Like when he ran away from 574 00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:31,960 being a slave in the first place. But this means 575 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,319 that sometimes when he goes into a place and he 576 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,480 converts the princess, or even worse, when he converts princesses 577 00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:41,000 and they no longer become marital bargaining chips for the 578 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:44,079 great kings, the great kinglets in Ireland. That makes them 579 00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:46,000 angry and they want to do something about it. And 580 00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:48,480 so they'll imprison him, or they'll threaten him with death, 581 00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:51,039 or they'll betray him, or they'll sell him to like 582 00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:54,319 another arrival. And so this happens to him twelve times, 583 00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:57,599 but repeatedly he says, these are my people, this is 584 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,799 where I am to be. This was the land my salvation, 585 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,680 and now one has become my home. So his vision 586 00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:05,519 is that you want to be a leader, then you 587 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,519 have to enslave yourself to your people. Not that you 588 00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:10,839 do everything they want. No, No, he does everything that 589 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,759 God wants because God is his master. His ethics are 590 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:20,960 very clear that I'm like Christian ethics, an understanding of truth, honesty, beauty, goodness, justice, 591 00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:24,400 All these things are informed by Christianity. But he uses 592 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,440 them to serve other people, and he finds himself bound 593 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,680 to them. In fact, he's asked to go back to Britain, 594 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,559 he says, I will never go back home, and he 595 00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:34,000 doesn't because this is the land where he's supposed to be. 596 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:39,319 And so at some point there is another major incident 597 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,440 that occurs, and we know a lot more about this one, 598 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,799 but it's not with an Irish tyrant. It's with a 599 00:30:44,839 --> 00:30:48,319 British tyrant. We get the sense that there's this British guy, 600 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,359 this British tyrant named Kartacus and Karatecus. Right after Easter, 601 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,480 right after Patrick had baptized and confirmed a whole number 602 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,839 of people, and right after they were walking out they 603 00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:03,519 had the like special white robes that they have. Karatecas 604 00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:06,720 soldiers had swept into the region, killed a bunch of them, 605 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,400 taken the rest of them captive, and they'd sailed right 606 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,319 back to Britain. So it's kind of like the Barbarian 607 00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:14,119 conspiracy in reverse. What the Irish had done to the British, 608 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,559 now Kroaticus is doing to the Irish. And Patrick actually 609 00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:20,000 goes out to where this had happened and he sees 610 00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:23,240 his friends, his spiritual sons and daughters. He's like people 611 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,400 that he just brought into the church. He says they're 612 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,960 white robes stained with blood, and he just weeps. But 613 00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:32,559 then he gets angry and he goes back and he 614 00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:34,400 does what a bishop would do. He writes a letter. 615 00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:37,720 He sends it to Karatcus. Kroticus takes captive the guy 616 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,920 who got the letter, so he sends another one, and 617 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,920 this time it's a letter to all the Irish and 618 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,680 the British Christians. And in this letter it's called the 619 00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:48,039 Letter to the Soldiers of Karatecus. He makes it really 620 00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:50,799 clear that he is a bishop, and he's a bishop 621 00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:53,920 of authority to confront bad behavior. And he doesn't care 622 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,160 that it's bad behavior of Romano Britain. That doesn't matter, 623 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,680 that's not what he is concerned with. He's concerned that 624 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,440 someone has done injustice and it has afflicted the people 625 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,160 that are under his care. And so he as he 626 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,880 describes himself to the soldiers of Carotacus, I am their ambassador, 627 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,200 I am their shepherd, I am their father, I am 628 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,480 their bishop. And a bishop means you are a man 629 00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:16,799 with authority, and in the late Roman Empire, you actually 630 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:20,720 had certain legal and political responsibilities as a bishop. And 631 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,119 he lambasted the soldiers of Kurtacus and then he leverages 632 00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:27,400 the one thing for certain that a bishop has that 633 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,079 no one else has, and that is excommunication. And he says, 634 00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:32,440 and this is why this is a letter that goes 635 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,119 out to all the Irish and the British Christians. He tells, 636 00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:37,640 he tells all the Irish and British Christians do not 637 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,720 have anything to do with these men. They must be punished. 638 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,400 Why is he doing this because he wants them to 639 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,759 be reoriented. He wants those slaves that have now been 640 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:50,000 captured that were his friends. So there were some that 641 00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:52,440 were killed, there were some that enslaved. He wants to 642 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,880 pull all the strings that he can to get those 643 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,440 people freed and to get them back home, because what 644 00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:00,240 the soldiers of Rotas is going to do is probably 645 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,160 going to sell them to the Picks or somewhere else. 646 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,880 But here's what's really wonderful in the letter. A couple 647 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,240 of times he lets lose how sad he is about 648 00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:11,880 losing his friends. But when he closes the letter, he 649 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,559 opens up with this really ferocious broad said, they're not 650 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,279 the Romanto British citizens, they're not citizens of Roman civilization. 651 00:33:18,359 --> 00:33:21,480 They're citizens of the demons. But when he closes the letter, 652 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,319 he actually invites the soldiers of Kartacus to do the 653 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,039 right thing. Why because he cares about the soldiers of 654 00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:32,960 Karatacus too, and he thinks that if those soldiers of 655 00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:36,279 Karatacas can take very seriously his warnings and his threats 656 00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:39,200 and his excommunication, that maybe they can be brought back 657 00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:43,519 into justice and just behavior. And so he wants to 658 00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:46,359 save the bodies of those that have been slaved, but 659 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,640 he wants to save the souls of those who have 660 00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:55,960 enslaved them. This is Patrick's political theology. It goes past 661 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,960 tribes and races and even to a certain extent, nations 662 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:04,160 about justice for both those who have done wrong and 663 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,559 for those who have had wrong done to them. And 664 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,639 Patrick wants restoration and rehabilitation, and he's willing to use 665 00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:14,320 the tools that he has to punish people who refuse 666 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,519 to be reconciled and recentered. But this letter, it's this 667 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,480 fiery letter with these interesting moments of tenderness from a 668 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,119 man who is a man in authority. And this letter, 669 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,159 We're really glad we have this letter because it contrasts 670 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,719 deeply with that second letter. And I'll tell you about 671 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,719 the second letter. Now. The second letters is confession. I've 672 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,559 already mentioned it several times. This letter's probably written at 673 00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:41,239 the very end of his life, and we're not entirely 674 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,920 certain about the exact timing of when it came, but 675 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,360 when Patrick is writing it, we get the sense that 676 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:48,559 his death is right around the corner. He's an old 677 00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:51,719 man by this time, and he's baptized thousands of people, 678 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,719 countless numbers have been confirmed. He's ordained a number of 679 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,800 deacons and priests. He started to really change the structure 680 00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,199 of Irish societ and we can sort of see that 681 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:02,679 with the way that he writes in the letters to 682 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,159 the soldiers of Karatacus. No one would have written a 683 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,679 letter like that two decades before. But now he's talking. 684 00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:14,119 He's representing the Irish in ways that represent Christian ethics 685 00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:17,239 that never would have happened before Patrick's day. So, at 686 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,320 the very end of his life he writes the second letter. 687 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,000 And why does he write it? This opposition? It's probably 688 00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:26,960 the second oppositions. The first opposition by British bishops is 689 00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:31,880 probably when he became bishops, so that opposition is overcome. Well, 690 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,920 there's this second opposition that occurs, and one gets the 691 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,320 sense the British bishops are very concerned about three things. 692 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,199 Patrick has been wildly successful, so he has a lot 693 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,079 of power in Ireland, and we see that with a 694 00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:45,639 letter to Caroticus. It could even be that the Confession 695 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,119 is his people being concerned about how powerful he is 696 00:35:48,159 --> 00:35:50,360 because of that letter to Kroticus. We're not entirely certain, 697 00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:53,960 but Patrick seems to be pretty powerful, and he's got 698 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,880 this independent church in Ireland. The second thing is that's 699 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,880 probably brought a lot of wealth. In fact, several times 700 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:03,679 the Confession he emphasizes everything I get I give away, 701 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,760 I give to the poor. I will ransom captives, I 702 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,400 will buy slaves and set them free. Every single penny 703 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,480 that I get from everyone I use for the church 704 00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:15,840 and for the mission. And he's insistent upon and he 705 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,000 tells them, you come, you ask the Irish, because these 706 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,159 British bishops are in Britain. What do they know? He says, 707 00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:22,639 you come, you ask the Irish what I have kept? 708 00:36:22,679 --> 00:36:26,599 And they'll testify that he's kept nothing. And so there's 709 00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:30,280 this concern with the money, and you get the sense 710 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,480 the British are bummed out because they're not a part 711 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,559 of the take. They want the take they want the 712 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:39,159 tribute that can come in from a great wealthy church 713 00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:42,239 that's starting to begin in Ireland. And then the third 714 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,320 accusation that I would say we see in the confession 715 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,320 is that when he was becoming a deacon or a priest, 716 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,079 as as a young man, when he after he'd been 717 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,119 freed from his slavery, he confessed his sin to a 718 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,039 very close friend, his confessor, that great sin that we 719 00:36:58,079 --> 00:36:59,760 know about. This is why we know about the great sin. 720 00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:04,480 He confessed that thirty years ago. Well, these British bishops, 721 00:37:04,559 --> 00:37:07,360 doing what you know politicians and leaders do it, said 722 00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:09,960 let's dig up whatever dirt we've got on Patrick, because 723 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,400 we can't really get anything specific about him. Well, this friend, 724 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:19,199 to his everlasting shame, divulged what had been confessed. And Patrick, 725 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,840 when he hears about this, is devastated because this friend 726 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:24,679 told everyone in Britain, or at least the British bishops, 727 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,679 what the great sin was. And Patrick has devastated, not 728 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,039 because everyone knows what the sin is, but because that 729 00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:32,760 had caused a rift in the friendship and he felt betrayed. 730 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,360 But he also worried about his friend, who'd done something 731 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,719 very immoral. He violated the sanctity of the confessional. Okay, 732 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,519 so the bishops send this let like they're sending some 733 00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:45,079 sort of letters envoys saying you need to come back 734 00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:47,880 to Britain to give an account. And that's why Patrick 735 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,880 sifths Downer writes the letter, because he wants to give 736 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,800 an account of what he's done, how he's been pactilious 737 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,119 with everything, and how everything has been driven by the mission, 738 00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:01,119 the mission to convert Ireland, to change what we know 739 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,880 of as Ireland. And you get this in the letter 740 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,960 he written mentions it over and over again. The Great 741 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,800 Commission is very important. His dreams have pointed him to 742 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,360 this place. He reference to how many times he's baptized 743 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:18,039 countless he's baptized thousands, he's confirmed thousands or countless numbers. 744 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,960 He has worked with the princes and he has there 745 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,000 have been a number of consecrated virgins who have also 746 00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:28,400 joined his numbers. And you understand in the writing that 747 00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:32,519 he's actually changing the fabric of Irish society, at least 748 00:38:32,559 --> 00:38:35,280 where he is and that north central part of Ireland 749 00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:41,400 with these mass conversions. And he is repeatedly emphasizing that 750 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,679 it is his only motivation. But when you get to 751 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,800 the end of the confession, there's these other telling remarks. 752 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,400 See we look back on Patrick's confession where like, oh, yeah, 753 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,000 well we know what happens. Ireland becomes Christian. Kings want 754 00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:57,760 to be Christian, the politicians want to be Christian, even 755 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,519 to this day. They want to showcase their cddentals. They 756 00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:02,920 want to trace themselves back to fact, to Patrick. But 757 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,519 Patrick has no idea that any of that's going to happen. 758 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,880 And he has a couple of these remarks that are 759 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,000 really heart wrenching. He says, you know, when I die, 760 00:39:12,199 --> 00:39:14,840 I don't even know if people are going to save 761 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,280 my body. Now there's a tomb in Don Patrick, which 762 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,239 supposedly has his body. We have no idea what's in it. 763 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,519 We don't know where Patrick's body is. We don't know 764 00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:26,960 if what he said would come true, that the birds 765 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,519 and the dogs would devour his body came true. We 766 00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:32,239 don't have a Bible with Patrick. We don't have a 767 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,800 letter of Patrick, or we have the two letters. We 768 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,199 don't have it written by his hand, We just have 769 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,719 copies of them. We don't have a church that we 770 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,719 know is built by him, or like a Crozier or 771 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,199 a miter or any of the trappings of power. All 772 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,239 we have is the legacy in those two letters that 773 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,440 were copied from generation to generation, and that's it. And 774 00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:57,280 Patrick actually dies without knowing if he really made any 775 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,440 long lasting difference. But the two things that matter to 776 00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:03,920 him is I save souls here, and I have friends 777 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,159 here and they may be poor, but they know me 778 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,079 and I know them, and they're my family here in Ireland. 779 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,039 And he also knows I did the mission. I did 780 00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:15,480 what I was supposed to do, what I was asked 781 00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:15,800 to do. 782 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,119 Speaker 2: So I bought the fight. I have kept the faith. 783 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:18,639 Speaker 4: Yeah. 784 00:40:18,679 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 3: And I think when he gets to when he got to, 785 00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:23,920 his his mind was always when I get to have 786 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,559 an I only want God to say well done, good 787 00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:30,559 and faithful servant and everything else it doesn't matter. 788 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 2: It is. 789 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting that, while you're talking about, 790 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,719 especially his confession, if he hadn't it sounds to me 791 00:40:41,599 --> 00:40:45,519 like if he hadn't been had that sin, divulged in 792 00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:48,960 that betrayal of his friend, he wouldn't have written the 793 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,199 second of the only two, you know, the two pieces 794 00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:54,119 that we have from him that survived till today. 795 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,079 Speaker 3: That, Yeah, that is the case. 796 00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 2: Most of the biographical information I think that you know we. 797 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,679 Speaker 1: Have comes from that particular one, and think about Patrick's 798 00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:04,719 whole story he would have who knows, he. 799 00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 3: Probably would have turned out to be not a very 800 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,480 good person, had that other horrible thing that happened, and 801 00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:13,280 that him being enslaved. And it's a testimony of God 802 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,239 turning good things, or excuse me, God turning really horrific 803 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,719 or bad things into amazingly beautiful and good things that 804 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:26,280 impact thousands and thousands of people and hundreds of generations 805 00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:30,639 of people. Now it's a powerful message of how that 806 00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:32,119 can happen in the life of one person. 807 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,679 Speaker 2: Well, we just have a few minutes here. 808 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: I wonder what would you recommend to people who want 809 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,679 to learn more about Saint Patrick, the history, the real 810 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:42,719 history behind him. 811 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 2: You know, while we are enjoying. 812 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: The dancing leprechauns and the disgusting green beer, which I 813 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,840 won't be having any of. My husband is a little 814 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,280 bit picky. Well he's actually he's not super picky, but 815 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,760 he knows how to pick good beer. So we'll be 816 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,920 enjoying something better tonight. But sure, you know, aside for 817 00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:03,519 all the kind of kitsch, you know that's modern and 818 00:42:03,639 --> 00:42:07,559 cheap Chinese decorations. What what would be something of more 819 00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:10,360 lasting value that people could devote a couple, you know, 820 00:42:10,679 --> 00:42:12,400 a little bit of their time or you know, going 821 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,320 forward to learning more about this great America. 822 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 2: American, this great Christian historical figure. 823 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I give the same recommendation to everyone who asked this, 824 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,199 because you know, Saint Patrick's day's fun. It has all 825 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,400 sorts of like you know, light things that you can do. 826 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,679 But I would say, if you want to make Saint 827 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,920 Patrick meaningful, and if you actually want to know about 828 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,719 the guy, the amazing person who's better than all of 829 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,519 the legends, just read his confession. It's short, it has 830 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:41,519 like sixty things. 831 00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 2: You can find it out line, you can. 832 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 3: Find it online. There are you know, hundreds of versions 833 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,159 that are out there. It's very easy to sit down 834 00:42:48,199 --> 00:42:50,039 and read through. And just I mean you could read 835 00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:53,199 it and in less than an hour easily, you know, 836 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,440 maybe thirty minutes, so you don't want to slow read 837 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,280 read the read the confession and you really get a 838 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,239 sense for him, and everyone acknowledges this. It's a remarkably sincere, 839 00:43:03,079 --> 00:43:07,400 if ineloquent, but a very beautiful letter. And then if 840 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,800 you can't. If you want more, go read the letter 841 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,039 to the Soldiers of Caroticas and you'll get a different 842 00:43:12,119 --> 00:43:14,800 side of the same man who talks the same way 843 00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:17,480 in both letters. But you see one is a man 844 00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:22,559 who was searching to defend his purpose in life, and 845 00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:25,920 then the other is someone who is writing in a 846 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,360 moment of grave concern and legitimate outrage that both of 847 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,119 them present the story of a truly wonderful leader. And 848 00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:36,719 I think we need really good stories of truly wonderful 849 00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:39,320 leaders today because there's such a dearth of that. 850 00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 2: Folks. 851 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,119 Speaker 1: You can find a doctor Steel brand on X at 852 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,480 s T E E L E. Underscore brand like branding 853 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:53,079 a cow. That that's his handle X dot com slash 854 00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:55,519 what I just noted, Doctor Brand. Thank you for your 855 00:43:55,559 --> 00:43:56,119 time today. 856 00:43:56,599 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on the show. 857 00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:58,679 Speaker 4: Was great. 858 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 1: All right, listeners, this has been another edition of the 859 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:03,840 Federalist Radio Hour. 860 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 2: You know what I'm going to say next be 861 00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: Lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray and happy 862 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:21,559 Saint Patrick's Day.