WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:02.879 Hudson River Radio dot com. 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:04.480 It beats listening to nothing. 3 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:06.839 My goodness, it's. 4 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:09.039 Being Frank. 5 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:09.480 Frank. 6 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:15.359 We're the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, 7 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:18.079 and welcome to being Frank. We're the only way to be, 8 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:21.559 is Frank. I'm your host, Frankilborn, and I'd like to 9 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:23.640 thank you for joining us on what we like to 10 00:00:23.719 --> 00:00:29.079 call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where no conversations out of bounds, 11 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:33.640 in all points of view are welcome. Listeners are familiar 12 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:35.640 that we record live to tape, and I give you 13 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:38.079 the date so you have context and relevance. It is 14 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:45.520 the twenty fourth of September. Authoritarian regimes, dictators despots are often, 15 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:49.600 but not always fools, But none is foolish enough to 16 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:54.679 give prospective dissident writers free range to publish their judgments 17 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:58.799 or follow their creative instincts. They know they do so 18 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.320 at their own peril. They are not stupid enough to 19 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:07.519 abandon control, overt or insidious over the media. Their methods 20 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:13.560 include surveillance, censorship, arrest, even slaughter of those writers informing 21 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:18.920 and disturbing the public. Writers who are unsettling, calling into question, 22 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:26.040 taking another deeper look, writers, journalists, essayists, bloggers, poets, playwrights 23 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.879 can disturb the social oppression that functions like a coma 24 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:34.120 on the population. A coma despots call peace, and they 25 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:38.519 staunched the blood flow of war that hawks and profiteers 26 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.879 thrilled to. That was peril Written by Tony Morrison, the 27 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:46.280 Great Pulletzer Prize winner and Nobel Laureate, in two thousand 28 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:49.799 and eight. It certainly could have been, or maybe even 29 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.359 should have been written today. Her voice would join the 30 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:56.120 chorus of thousands, if not millions, of others who are 31 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.280 railing against the Trump administration's policies regarding free speed in 32 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:04.040 the First Amendment. This is the most serious installed on 33 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.840 that freedom that I have experienced in my lifetime. However, 34 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:10.639 it is certainly not the only time in history that 35 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:13.319 powerful men in government had made the effort to control 36 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:17.159 the people by controlling their voices. And as for long 37 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:19.879 has there been evil men trying to control our freedom 38 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:23.439 of expression, there have been those who have been rising 39 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.039 in opposition to them. A mere handful include authors like Morrison, 40 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.599 who had just mentioned, Saint Clair Lewis, James Baldwin, but 41 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:36.080 also politicians like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, comedians like 42 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:40.080 Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, musicians like Pete Seeger and 43 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:45.360 Bruce Springsteen, philosophers like Voltaire and Marshall mccluhan, educators like 44 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:49.120 John Stuart Mill and Louis Brandeis, and even athletes my 45 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.039 like Muhammad al Lee and Bill Russell. On this edition 46 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.719 of Being Frank, we will once again dissect the real 47 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.479 meaning of the First Amendment and what it means to 48 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:02.479 a truly free society. We'll also have some intelligent conversation 49 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:04.919 on the impact of those I just mentioned, as well 50 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:08.840 as others, and the continuing efforts to maintain that freedom. 51 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.639 Joining us once again frequent collaborator to Being Frank. I 52 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:17.879 call him the renaissance Man because he's an author, composer, musician, 53 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:21.639 businessman and full professor at Fordham School of Mass Media 54 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:24.599 and Communication. A man I'm proud to call my friend, 55 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:28.599 doctor Paul Levinson. Paul, thank you once again joining us 56 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.280 on what is going to be a really important show. 57 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:35.879 Well, I'm especially glad to be here today, Frank. First, 58 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:40.800 I'm always glad to be on your show, because Being 59 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:45.960 Frank is indeed the only way to be But on 60 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:50.599 a slightly more serious note. Today is the day after 61 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:56.759 Jimmy Kimmel came back online to do his late night 62 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:02.000 comedic show, and he spent the first half hour of 63 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:06.159 that show talking about the very things we're going to 64 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:12.639 be talking about. And honestly, this is the first step, 65 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:18.480 the first event in a long, long time that gives 66 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:22.560 me a hope that we may be slowly beginning to 67 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:28.759 turn around this almost sleep walk our country is doing 68 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.360 down the road to fascism. 69 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.279 Well, and if you want to talk about that in 70 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:38.879 greater detail, obviously it's huge news and the implications are 71 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.160 what you said that important. But again, even though we've 72 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:45.480 spoken about it many times, I think people still can't 73 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:49.319 wrap their mind around the First Amendment. Well, you know 74 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.720 what it is, what it can do, and what it 75 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:54.959 can't do. I mean, there's this tug of war even 76 00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:00.199 within this situation, private versus public, government versus private for example, 77 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:03.040 And it came up, and I do want to talk 78 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:06.639 about it in context. The whole late night scene, talk 79 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.040 show scene is changing, and that was often used as 80 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:15.720 a reason for these changes. I think that's a smoke screen, 81 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.879 and we'll talk about that in more detail, but in order, Again, 82 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:20.959 to put it in context. Let's talk a little bit 83 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:24.439 more about the First Amendment. What are the most important 84 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:28.000 things people should take from the First Amendment. 85 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:32.240 Well, first of all, the First Amendment is the most 86 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:36.279 crucial of all our amendments. That's why it's first. 87 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.639 Yes, others wouldn't exist without. 88 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:44.279 The first exactly right. It sets up everything else in 89 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:50.160 our democratic society. But the First Amendment is packed with 90 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:56.160 a lot of different overlapping points. For example, people have 91 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.680 the right to peaceably assemble. That part has nothing to 92 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:07.079 do with speech or press directly or and the First 93 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:11.959 Amendment speaks about the government not establishing a religion, and 94 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:16.160 that also, you know, ultimately relates to freedom of speech 95 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.319 and freedom of the press. But it's a separate part 96 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:23.720 of that First Amendment. So everyone, you know, if they 97 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.240 haven't recently, you just sit down. You can get it online. 98 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:30.240 Call up the First Amendment, in fact, call up the 99 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:33.680 whole Bill of Rights. In fact, better yet, call up 100 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:38.120 every amendment that has become part of our constitution, and 101 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.399 that will give people a better idea of what the 102 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:44.959 First Amendment does. As far as the part of the 103 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:50.519 First Amendment that directly addresses communication, you know, I've always 104 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:55.079 been surprised that so many people have such a problem 105 00:06:55.319 --> 00:07:00.399 understanding it. I mean, yes, the language is slightly our hayek, 106 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:05.600 you know, but basically what it's saying is crystal clear. 107 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:12.399 The government in this case, the federal government cannot should 108 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:17.360 not prohibit freedom of speech or the press. You can't 109 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:21.920 get much more direct than that. But unfortunately, as you 110 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:25.560 and I have discussed many many times before, there are 111 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:30.839 people who for reasons that I guess I can understand, 112 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.639 But if you look at it another way, it's absurd 113 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:39.959 to regulate radio, which is how the FCC came. 114 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:42.199 That's on the list. 115 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:48.360 Yeah, I mean, okay, what does a late night comedian do, 116 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:53.680 whether it's Jimmy Kimmel, whether it's Stephen Colbert, whether it 117 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:57.560 was Johnny Carson, whether it was Jack Parr. What did 118 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:02.279 they all do? They talked, so Congress shall make no 119 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:07.800 law abridging freedom of speech. Well, these guys and women, 120 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:14.399 they're talking online. And the other thing that they often 121 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:19.040 do in a humorous way, but with a very serious undertone, 122 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:28.759 is they give their commentary, their satirical commentary on political developments. Now, 123 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:35.000 presenting opinions in the press has been a part of 124 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:40.039 the press since the first sheets rolled off the first 125 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:44.679 printing presses. The press doesn't just report the facts and 126 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:48.720 the news. It does mainly do that, but there are 127 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:52.399 op ed pages, as in the New York Times. There 128 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:58.720 are editorials in newspapers which vastly predate the op ed page. 129 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.799 So the other thing that the First Amendment says the 130 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:08.639 federal government cannot interfere with, cannot obstruct in a crystal 131 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:13.519 clear way. The other thing is the press, and in 132 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:20.240 the pressure that the FCC put on in this case 133 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:24.039 Disney ABC, and as we know this past summer we 134 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:24.919 talked a little bit. 135 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:26.399 About that with Colbert. 136 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:33.279 Yeah, that basically was clearly an attempt to squelch speech 137 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:38.159 and the press, crystal clear. The only question I have 138 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:41.759 is why do so many people, and we should discuss this, 139 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:47.720 have such a problem in understanding this. And I include 140 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:53.440 among those many people Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who signed the 141 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:58.320 Communications Act of nineteen thirty four into law which created 142 00:09:58.360 --> 00:09:59.879 the FCC. In the. 143 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.159 Interesting I want a little bit more detail, but pull 144 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:09.879 within that, And also there's a theme here to It's 145 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.679 part of it is because people don't understand the First Amendment. 146 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.159 And I've been exposed to it. And it's interesting now 147 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.799 on social media on the internet, if you click on 148 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.519 one video, then you know you get a hundred of them. Well, 149 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.080 I saw interest. There's there's a group that they're provocative. 150 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:28.240 They go out with a camera and they go on 151 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:33.440 the sidewalk and they shoot video, just indiscriminately whatever, and 152 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.360 almost invariably somebody comes up and has an issue with 153 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.240 them doing it. I have not given you permission to 154 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:44.519 do that, And then of course it spurs this debate. 155 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:48.159 I don't need your permission, and they try to explain 156 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:52.080 that this is it's done deliberately to highlight that you 157 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.279 have rights. Okay, you have a right to do that basically, 158 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.039 and I think we need to talk about it in 159 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.240 some detail on a personal level and get to it 160 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:03.399 on the broader sense. Also that the law is interpreted 161 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:06.360 is that if I can see it from a public space, 162 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.320 I can photograph it, or I can write about it, 163 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.679 and it cannot be stopped. Yet there are others who feel, well, 164 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:17.559 that's an invasion of privacy, and so why does your 165 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:22.240 right rise above mind towards privacy? But I know the 166 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:28.159 Supreme Court has supported the photographer in those cases. So twofold, 167 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:33.559 it explained why it's important that they side on the side, 168 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.440 if you will, of the photographer. And then also do 169 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:40.519 why some people don't understand that these it's for their 170 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:45.320 benefit as well, to promote freedom of expression, not only speech, 171 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.720 and I think that's important, freedom of expression, which is 172 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:51.879 a broader term. Your thoughts point well. 173 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:56.960 First of all, on the photography question, if you think 174 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:01.279 about the nature of truth, and you think about the 175 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:05.240 interest that a democracy has to have in terms of 176 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:11.320 what is really happening. For example, if there is a 177 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:17.120 charge that the police in any given city or street 178 00:12:17.720 --> 00:12:24.200 are abusing their powers preventing people from standing up and talking, 179 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:29.919 you know, preventing people from walking here or there, if 180 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.159 there were no photographer. And by the way, there weren't 181 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.759 any photographers back when the First Amendment was written. But 182 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:43.240 the founding fathers in a way, we're looking towards the future, 183 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:46.799 and they made this general statement and it pertains to 184 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.799 all media. But nowadays and ever since there have been 185 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:57.799 handy handheld cameras, the ability to photograph anything that's in 186 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:03.080 the public has become really one of the bulworks basically 187 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.320 our political system, one of the bulwarks of our democracy 188 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:12.440 because it enables anyone not only to report what they're 189 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:17.679 seeing visually, but to provide a record of it. And 190 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:21.879 by the way, police don't like being photographed. They've been 191 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:25.679 known to basically take people's cameras away and basically step 192 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:26.159 on them. 193 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:29.440 I'm amazed about how many private citizens do that as well. 194 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.240 Paul I bet at times, Oh my god, for an 195 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:35.879 innocent photo. I mean, why I was called a pedophile 196 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:39.720 and all these horrible things for what, in my mind 197 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.120 from the very beginning, was an innocent photograph and something 198 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:44.720 that I was within my right to do. And I 199 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.000 don't want to make this about me, but what I'm 200 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.480 saying is I'm just so surprised that people just didn't 201 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:51.879 get it. It's just an artistic expression. 202 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.399 Yeah. Well, the problem, you know, in general, is one 203 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:03.840 would think that everyone owns their own image, but because 204 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:07.120 of what I just said, that really has never been 205 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:10.799 the case and really shouldn't be the case. That's why 206 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.440 the courts are found over and over and over again 207 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:20.879 that if you are in a public place, anyone can 208 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:25.840 take your photograph. And you know what, that anyone owns 209 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:29.799 your photograph, you don't have the right to your own image. 210 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:33.279 If you're in public, anyone who makes a recording of 211 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:36.360 your image, they can do whatever they want with it. 212 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:39.960 If you want to walk down the street start naked, 213 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:44.519 and somebody takes your photograph and you're embarrassed by that, 214 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:50.360 unfortunately you're in public, it's not considered an invasion of 215 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:53.399 your privacy. If you want to be private and you 216 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:56.440 don't want to wear any clothes, stay home, you. 217 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:02.519 Know, close too, because sidewalk they can actually photograph in 218 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:09.000 the house. It's an interesting and certainly an argument where 219 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:12.080 you can see both sides where you know, who would 220 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.320 want to quote unquote invade someone's privacy, But the point 221 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.519 being that generally speaking, that's not really the case, that's 222 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:19.360 not the motivation. 223 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:23.720 Yeah, let me just say it's a complicated situation, and 224 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:28.360 it doesn't have that much to do with Stephen Colbert 225 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.840 basically being fired, you know, and it has nothing to 226 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:37.120 do with Jimmy Kimmel being fired. And you know, it's 227 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:42.679 a complicated situation. You know, some of our listeners may recall, 228 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:48.480 and probably many people won't, that after John F. Kennedy 229 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:56.559 was assassinated, Jackie O. Nassas married Aristotlenassis and she spent 230 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.639 a lot of time on his island. Very rich guy, 231 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.159 and there were people they didn't quite have drones back then, 232 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.399 so talking about the late sixties, early seventies, but they 233 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.919 had helicopters, you know. And there were photographers who would 234 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:16.159 fly over the island and photographed Jackie when she was 235 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.879 walking on the beach on what she thought was a 236 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.919 private island, but in fact it was public and she 237 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.799 wasn't wearing any clothes. And when those photographs were published, 238 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:33.399 the photographers and the magazines that published those photos were sued. 239 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:37.679 And despite what we just were talking about, the courts 240 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:42.320 found in favor of Jackie because they understandably felt bad 241 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.879 for her, you know, JFK's widow. So I mean, it 242 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:52.000 is a significant part of this overall discussion, but it's 243 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.879 certainly not the most significant part of how the First 244 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.840 Amendment and the rights to privacy play out. 245 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.120 Right again, I want to just bring it up in 246 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.039 terms of context and the fact that it is such 247 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:09.440 a broad thing and it is it's truly about expression, 248 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.640 people finding the way to express themselves, and how important 249 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.000 that is. So well, let's get back on the rail 250 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:21.799 track here. We mentioned the SEC, the Federal Communications Commission, 251 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:25.960 and its inception, Why was it conceived? Should it have 252 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.160 been conceived? Do we still need it? Why do we 253 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:29.559 need it? 254 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.160 Okay, so let's go back to the nineteen twenties. That's 255 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.880 when radio became a mass medium. It was invented in 256 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:42.640 effect by Markconi some twenty years before that. And one 257 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:46.960 of the problems that arose, especially in big cities, is 258 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.279 everyone on their grandparent wanted I've created a radio station, 259 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:56.680 and there's only so much space in the spectrum, you know. Eventually, 260 00:17:56.759 --> 00:18:01.960 obviously that AM was joined by FM under the number 261 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:03.960 of stations that there could be, But back in the 262 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:08.799 nineteen twenties, it was just AM radio and the radio 263 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:15.039 stations themselves back in the nineteen twenties got concerned that 264 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:20.799 there were so many radio stations broadcasting that their frequencies 265 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.599 were so close together that if you tried to listen 266 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:28.079 to a radio station, often you heard other stations coming in. 267 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.880 And so you know, if you're driving out of New York, 268 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.359 everyone's experienced this and you're still listening to an old 269 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:38.559 fashioned radio AM or FM. You drive, It's great, you're 270 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:44.000 enjoying it. I used to enjoy listening to WCBSFM rock 271 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:47.599 and roll radio but if you know, fifty seventy five, 272 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:52.759 one hundred miles away from New York City, suddenly WCBSFM 273 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.480 begins to get weaky status. 274 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:57.200 To hear that noise and crackling, and. 275 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.359 Another stations coming in. So that really what happened to 276 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.960 everyone much closer to New York in the nineteen twenties, 277 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:10.799 scoose stations were broadcasting too close together. So the radio 278 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:17.200 stations themselves petitioned the federal government to do something about that. 279 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:22.680 That was their first mistake. Fortunately, for a couple of years, 280 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.599 the president was Herbert Hoover, who I have almost nothing 281 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:29.079 else good to say about his presidency. 282 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.240 No one really seems to right. 283 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.440 But he was a great believer in the federal government 284 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.680 needs to be restricted, it has to keep his hands 285 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:43.720 off business. And so he created this very weak agency, 286 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:48.920 the Federal Radio Commission, to keep track of where stations 287 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.559 were broadcasting, on what frequencies, and to try to make 288 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.599 sure that stations didn't broadcast too close together. But it 289 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.519 was such a weak agency, and the building cated it 290 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.759 was so weak. It didn't have any way of punishing 291 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:10.920 stations that violated this commandment, in effect, not to broadcast 292 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.440 too close to another station. And so by the time 293 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:20.920 Franklin Delano Roosevelt is elected president in nineteen thirty two, 294 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.119 and he becomes the president in nineteen thirty three, the 295 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:29.960 radio stations themselves are still clamoring, please do something about this. 296 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.839 We still have too many radio stations. So it was 297 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:40.319 in that context that the FCC was created as part 298 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:46.160 of the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four. Now I'm 299 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:50.799 speaking from the wisdom of hindsight. I wasn't alive as 300 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.599 old as I might sing in the early nineteen thirties. 301 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.160 To me, the first I ever heard about the FC 302 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:01.960 See what. I was a kid in the late nineteen 303 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.759 fifties and I heard that, I don't know, the FCC 304 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.160 was investigating Alan Freed because he was taking payola. My 305 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:12.640 initiative response was, I knew about the First Amendment. My 306 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:16.759 initial response is, what the hell is you know the 307 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:21.880 government doing in any way trying to regulate radio? You know, 308 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.160 I understood the First Amendment, And so as soon as 309 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:28.480 I found out, well, the government has a right to 310 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:33.519 because of the Communications Act, the FCC was created. I 311 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:39.319 came to the conclusion that the FCC is obviously blatantly 312 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:43.960 an unconstitutional violation or the First Amendment. I'll just say 313 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:48.839 one more quick thing here, the idea that the FCC 314 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:53.480 was unconstitutional. People in the nineteen thirties taught that, and 315 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.839 a case eventually got to the Supreme Court, and a 316 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:02.160 Supreme Court justice with a ridiculous name, Felix Frankfurter, wasn't 317 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:06.799 exactly a hot dog in the decision that he basically 318 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.200 wrote the majority opinion for and convinced the majority of 319 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.000 Supreme Court justices then, because in this case, which was 320 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:20.240 NBC versus the United States, where NBC was saying to 321 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.799 the FCC, get off our back, We're not interested in 322 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.640 what you want to do. By the way, the FCC 323 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:31.960 forced NBC to split in two. They originally had a 324 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.160 Blue network and a Red network. One of them remained NBC, 325 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:41.000 the other created Guests what ABC. So this AEC who 326 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.880 fired Kimmel. That's how they came to be. Anyway, this 327 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.319 case before the Supreme Court, in a decision written by 328 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:53.240 Felix frankfort Ever, one of the justices wasn't even chief justice, 329 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.119 he was an associate justice, but he felt so strongly 330 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:59.599 about this he wrote the opinion said, in effect, not 331 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:04.039 with standing the first Amendment, since the founding fathers could 332 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:07.160 not have had any idea that there would be such 333 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.720 a thing as radio, which is broadcast you know, throughout 334 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:14.720 the country. The information travels at the speed of light. 335 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:19.319 The government has to be able to regulate radio. And 336 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:23.400 so what that decision in nineteen forty three did is 337 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.440 it put the FCC into the same position of power 338 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:29.119 which it still has now. 339 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.759 Well, and that's what was going to say. And it's 340 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:35.799 unfortunate that the term gets used so often. People don't 341 00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:40.359 really grasp the importance, the significance of it. It's been weaponized, 342 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.039 and we see that very clearly with the first with 343 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:50.319 Colbert and then again with Kimmel where the network, the 344 00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:54.960 home network of Colbert CBS parent company, Paramount, needed to 345 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.839 merge while multi six. 346 00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:58.720 Billion dollar deal. 347 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.599 Just to give a little synopsis, but those deals have 348 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.920 to be approved by the FCC, and the SEC only 349 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.039 answers to whom. 350 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:15.400 Well, exactly, the FCC doesn't answer to anyone. Now, It's 351 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.039 interesting in the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four, it 352 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:23.920 says two contradictory things. It says, in a very prominent way, 353 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:29.160 the SCC shall in no way censor radio stations or 354 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:33.720 past judgment on the content of radio stations, So because 355 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:36.759 people back then were aware of the danger of doing that. 356 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.559 By the way, this was exactly at the same time 357 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:47.200 that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Gerbels were cleverly using radio 358 00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.359 to enslave the German people in their Nazi regime. So 359 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.960 people in the United States were aware of the danger 360 00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:01.039 of radio. That's why that was put into the Communications 361 00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:05.240 Act that created the FCC. They were aware that radio, 362 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:09.839 if it became a vehicle of the government, was a 363 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.960 dagger pointed at the heart of democracy. And in fact, 364 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.000 in Germany, the Weimar Republic was within a year or 365 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:23.880 two of the creation of the FCC, here became Adolf 366 00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:30.119 Hitler's Nazi Germany. So the fact of the matter is, 367 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:36.640 even back then in the nineteen thirties, people were concerned 368 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:42.920 about that, and in Nazi Germany, Hitler made it impossible 369 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.839 for people to do anything. Here in the United States, 370 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:50.279 although there were a lot of people concerned about that, 371 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:56.599 that decision of nineteen forty three ratified the FCC's position. 372 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:02.519 And even though the FCC he was not supposed to censor. 373 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:08.039 In that same Communications Act, you had the contradictory part 374 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:12.720 of the Act that said the FCC is responsible for 375 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:17.759 granting and renewing licenses to broadcast, and in doing so, 376 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:24.200 and here's reached the censorship. In doing so, the FCC 377 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:28.799 needs to consider, and this is the crucial wording, whether 378 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:33.720 the station is broadcasting in quote, the public interest. Now, 379 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.880 if that's not familiar to any of our listeners, that's 380 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.880 just what Trump and the current chair of the FCC 381 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.799 have been babbling about about what they did and what 382 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.440 they intend to do. More of Trump, I've just heard 383 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:51.920 him say like three or four times in three or 384 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:55.559 four different places in the last week. He thinks it's 385 00:26:55.640 --> 00:27:01.000 appropriate to the FCC to examine any brought cast medium, 386 00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:05.799 any actually mode of communication whatsoever in the United States, 387 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:09.519 with an eye towards whether or not it's broadcasting in 388 00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:13.559 the public interest. Now, of course, Trump thinks what's in 389 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:18.039 the public interest is agreeing with all of the fascistic 390 00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:23.079 things that the Trump administration is doing. And that's why 391 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:26.039 this is so dangerous. And this goes back again to 392 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:32.160 this contradictory wording in that Communications Act of nineteen thirty four. 393 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.440 The SEC is not supposed to censor, but it is 394 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:42.519 supposed to grant and renew licenses based on whether, in 395 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:47.680 it's the SEC's judgment, the station is broadcasting in the 396 00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:53.160 public interest. That phrase in the public interest is catnip 397 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.559 to someone like Trump, because he said, I'll tell you 398 00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:03.359 what the public interest is agreeing with me and my insanity, and. 399 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:06.680 It's perfect segue to Kimmel. You know, the whole situation 400 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:09.920 there because they used it. He made in my opinion, 401 00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:11.839