WEBVTT 1 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:22.920 You know, I don't talk enough about the YouTube channel 2 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:26.600 that we launched about six months ago. I had Earth 3 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:29.640 Ancients was on YouTube for a good five years. We 4 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:34.200 had a London based company and we were posting, you know, 5 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.520 a video every week. But we got caught up in 6 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:45.200 some bad material I guess or the editors thought it 7 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:49.399 was bad material having to do with I think it 8 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:55.000 had to do with the Sphinx and Robert Shock and Zi. 9 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.079 I might have said something about Zachie had Hawas that 10 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:01.119 got me in trouble. I think I was very frustrated. 11 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:04.599 I'd just coming I had just come back from a tour, 12 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:07.359 and I think I talked about this. I had a 13 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:15.400 conversation with Egypt Egyptian archaeologist, and I was asking This 14 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.280 was all recorded, I probably should have edited out. I 15 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:24.159 was asking why you're not using ground penetrating radar and 16 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:27.719 this was over at the Serapim. I was talking to 17 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:32.480 this guy and he was very very forthright, and he 18 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:36.760 basically said we don't use it. And I was shocked 19 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:38.680 because I was like, well, how the hell do you 20 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.079 do excavations with all the sand and this everything is 21 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:45.519 covered and is he said, we use the old survey 22 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:48.879 if something has a hill or a bump or something, 23 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:52.159 we look at it, we dig into it, and then 24 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:57.640 if it's what we think it is, then we start excavating. Well, 25 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.200 I was flabbergasted, and I think I was frustrated, and 26 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:06.519 I said something that was not great about the Antiquities 27 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:10.759 Department of Egypt, which is still He's not officially part 28 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.759 of it anymore. Zahi watched us to be the Supreme Leader. 29 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:18.599 Supreme Leader. Anyhow, long story short, I got in trouble. 30 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:24.680 They asked to take that episode down. I think we 31 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:27.879 waited too long and they ended up taking the whole 32 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.400 channel down and we eventually got it back up, but 33 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:33.400 at the time I said, I have many a great 34 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.400 relationship with the organization. So they took the whole thing 35 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:41.400 down and it was down for over a year, and 36 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:47.599 six months ago we relaunched it and so Earth Asia's 37 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:50.879 YouTube channel is back, so I hope people can get 38 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:56.319 back on there and see some of the great editing 39 00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:00.199 and programming that we do. Of course, everyone listens, which 40 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.759 is good, but if you want to see details and 41 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.960 you're not one for Facebook, check out the YouTube channel 42 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:10.360 Earth Ancients YouTube and you'll see everybody we talk to 43 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:16.759 each week, so YouTube's very sensitive. There was a time 44 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:19.319 a couple of years ago, if you spoke out about 45 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.120 a certain drug, or you are speaking out against the 46 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:29.199 AMA American Medical Association, they would flag you. It's really 47 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:35.680 gotten bad. And of course no foul language, no nudity, obviously, 48 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:41.479 no pornographic imagery, cartoons or anything like that. But I 49 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:44.039 still get flagged occasionally, and I know people that are 50 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.599 getting flaked. I know Kob people have their whole site 51 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:49.919 taken down. So anyhow, if you can take a look 52 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:54.120 at the Earth Ancients on the YouTube channel and see 53 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:58.080 what's going on there. Hey, today we are going to California. 54 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.719 We're going to talk about the Conquistador, and that is 55 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:09.639 the period when Cortes Hernanez Cortes landed in Mexico and 56 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:15.520 basically destroyed the Aztecs. But today's story has to do 57 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:24.040 with northern Mexico and Baja California, and my guest today 58 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:32.240 is talking about really his belief on how California was developed, 59 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:38.399 the various indigenous people there, and his own personal trek 60 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:43.560 into Baja California in the late nineteen seventies. It's kind 61 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.879 of cool for me because I'm a Native California, and 62 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:50.720 I'm always interested in what the history is. We have 63 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:56.240 a history in the late fifteen hundreds where we had 64 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:01.600 father Sarah Jenupero Sarah coming up from Mexico into southern 65 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:07.519 California and eventually into northern California, and he placed missions 66 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:11.879 in I think every five hundred five hundred miles increments. 67 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:14.920 And if you come to California today, you can see 68 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:19.519 a mission in San Diego, in Santa Barbara, LA, all 69 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:23.720 the way up into Marin County, which is in the 70 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.319 San Francisco Bay area. There's one in San Francisco too, 71 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:31.759 and and they're they're kind of cool. Uh, They're they're stucco. 72 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.240 And the sad thing is they were made by slave 73 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:39.399 labor and they you know, if you they crowd the 74 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:43.439 local natives together and they forced them to build these 75 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:50.040 these missions. They were also made to support the local 76 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:55.160 military and they would, you know, barricade themselves in I 77 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.759 don't think there was ever any an uprising, but there 78 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.600 may have been. But that's that's a little bit of 79 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:07.279 California history. This program we're presenting today is more on 80 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:16.079 the final period of Corteza's stay in northern California, North America, 81 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:23.720 and he actually came and settled in what is today 82 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:28.160 Baja California. But it's a it's an interesting show, and 83 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.160 I thought it would be one for the books and 84 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.560 we like it. So today's program is The Elusive Conquest 85 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:41.839 of Queen Khalifa, California History Revisited, and my guest is 86 00:06:41.920 --> 00:07:20.720 Alan Ergot. If you're a fan of California history like 87 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:24.519 i am, you're always looking for new bits and pieces 88 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:27.199 of data, and we got a new one that just 89 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:30.120 came out, actually came out last year. It's called The 90 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:35.800 Elusive Conquest of Queen Califa, California History Revisited. And I'm 91 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:40.839 a native California and of course when you study California history, 92 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:47.720 you learn about the Spanish who came here, but also 93 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:53.360 the mission fathers who indoctrinated the Native Americans, and the 94 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:58.439 history is always very flowery and positive, but really in 95 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.959 real life it wasn't very flowery at all. But this 96 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.800 new book is excellent, and we have the author with us, 97 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:09.360 Alan Ergott, who's going to explain to us just what 98 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.680 he discovered and the reason why he wrote this book. 99 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.600 So Alan, welcome to Destiny. Great to have you on 100 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:17.160 the program. 101 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:18.839 Thank you for having me. 102 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.240 Talk a little bit about this journey. Nineteen seventy five, you, 103 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.959 your brother, your friend decided to go to Baja California 104 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:34.320 and you literally, over what was it six months, hiked 105 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:37.240 the entire length of Baja I mean, what was the 106 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.000 thought process to do about doing that, because that's a 107 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:42.480 huge undertaking. 108 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:48.559 Yes and no, I think as far as a huge 109 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.360 undertaking is concerned, we were young and probably naive and 110 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:58.279 just decided to do it. Two years previously, in nineteen 111 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:02.240 seventy three, I hiked the the vast majority of the 112 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:06.240 Simit Crest Trail from the Mexican border to the Oregon 113 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.559 Orshington border at the Columbia River, and I just I 114 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:13.159 love the impact it had on me of just hiking 115 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:18.000 through the landscapes, getting to know what lived there and 116 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:23.559 how that landscape had shifted or had guided their you know, 117 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:28.679 their their lives. And we had traveled to Baja California 118 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:32.559 before driving down the highway one the highway, you know, 119 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:36.320 goes through the path of least resistance, which means it 120 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:40.080 stayed in the flatlands, and there were seven mountain ranges 121 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:45.200 in the world. Parts of Baja California that were essentially unroaded, 122 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.759 and I just I just had to find out what 123 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:52.039 was in what was in those mountains. And my brother 124 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.879 and friend felt the same way I did, and it 125 00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:01.440 turned out that we we created a partnership and that's 126 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:02.879 what happened. 127 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.360 So that's approximately twelve hundred miles. 128 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:13.559 The peninsula itself. If you fly like the crow, it's 129 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:16.559 from the border to Cabo San Lucas at the very 130 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.840 end of the peninsula. It's about eight hundred miles. Yeah miles, okay, 131 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:25.000 But when you figure in the ins and outs of 132 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:32.159 trails and the topography, we figured it was about twelve 133 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:32.840 hundred miles. 134 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:36.879 Yes, okay, So just get a sense of this trek. 135 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:41.960 So did you land in San Diego, put your backpacks 136 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:47.240 on and physically walk this or did you actually drive 137 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:50.799 this this adventure both. 138 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:57.000 We strategically decided that we would drive down in every 139 00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:01.960 eighty eight miles plant a food can about two feet 140 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:07.639 underneath the surface of the earth. These were steel five 141 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:10.759 gallon paint cans that you can find in any paint store, 142 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:14.360 but they had the metal tabs that fit around the 143 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:18.039 top of the rim and secured the contents pretty darn well, 144 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.120 we figured two feet deep the food would remain somewhat cool, 145 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.600 and this was the kind of the core of the 146 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.639 food that we needed to complete our hike northwards. So 147 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.440 again we drove down to Cabo San Lucas heading south, 148 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:38.279 took bearings, tried to understand where we might find water 149 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:42.320 here and there, and did our best to drive up 150 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.039 into the mountains to bury those food cans along our 151 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:49.879 route predominantly for two thirds of the peninsula. It was 152 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:54.039 about El Camino Real, which is still a dirt trail 153 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:59.320 in Baja California, and it took us about three months 154 00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.960 to do that, to take our bearings, map the food sites, 155 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:06.600 the water sites, sites of interest, and then at Cabo 156 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:12.240 San Lucas, we put on our backpacks and started hiking north. 157 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:21.279 Start hiking north. The initial intention sounds like exploration, but 158 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.679 it was so much And you're right about this, and 159 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:27.120 I want to mention to our listeners this is also 160 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:32.679 somewhat of a memoir. As you're hiking, you're running into 161 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:37.240 these caves and finding these these amazing paintings. Was that 162 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:43.639 an outcrop from your initial idea of doing this or 163 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:47.320 was it something that just happened as you began following 164 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:48.759 this trail. 165 00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:53.279 I think it was one of the attractions. You know, 166 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:57.440 Earl Stanley Gardner made the cave paintings of the Sierra 167 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.240 San Francisco famous in the early nineteen sixties with his 168 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:08.639 illustrious helicopter exploration of that that's mountain range what I 169 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:14.720 prefer to call the Sacred Canyons, and then that was 170 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.480 followed up by a number of archaeologists that went down 171 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:24.720 and reported, you know, factual content within the midden of 172 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:29.360 the cave caves themselves and started talking about the anthropology 173 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:33.639 and likely time frame with which those paintings had been 174 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:39.120 actually sketched out by the artists. So it was an attraction, 175 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:45.279 but the real thing was way beyond my expectations. And 176 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:51.480 as we spent hours looking at them, stories began to 177 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:57.240 present themselves to me at least, and I realized that 178 00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:06.200 the paintings themselves were the Indians, the indigenous natives way 179 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:10.759 of telling history, of describing their own personal history. I mean, 180 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:15.840 they don't have a written language, so oral language and 181 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.159 their painted history is what we have. 182 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.519 Is there And you're write about this in your book. 183 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:29.000 Are there descendants or are there actual Kochimi Natives? That 184 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.840 are still alive up and down the Baja. 185 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:40.120 There are few homer astmen and anthropologist, geologist or geographer. 186 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:46.000 I should say estimated about thirty thousand natives in Baja 187 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:52.200 California at the time of the spaniards arrival about fifteen thirties, 188 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.639 and I think they're and the Coach of Me were 189 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:01.720 one of the largest tribes, tribal groups, and they occupied 190 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:06.399 the very central part of Baja California. And I think 191 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:12.960 that the most recent census put the number at about 192 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:18.200 one hundred Coach to Me speakers left, mostly in Tijuana 193 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:21.080 and Sonata, maybe MEXICALI. 194 00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.519 Yeah. The reason I asked that is that you document 195 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:29.840 that you observed one hundred and fifty cave paintings, and 196 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.759 I wonder if you were able to get any interpretation 197 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:39.200 from the remaining indigenous people that are in the area, 198 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.159 just to get a sense of because they didn't have 199 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:46.360 any writing, right, they had no written language, So what 200 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:47.759 were these representing. 201 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.320 It's hard to find the Coach of Me and we 202 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:57.639 did not do that, but we were able to interview 203 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:01.679 I should say a number of other Indian tribes, the 204 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:05.279 Pie Pie in the very northern part of Baja California, 205 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:09.480 and also the Kumier or Kumia in the San Diego area, 206 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.840 so that was the closest we could come by. There 207 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.919 are some symbols that I think are universal, like a 208 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.000 concentric circles representing water, Like when you drop a pebble 209 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:27.320 into a pond, you get that concentric flow of lines 210 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:29.919 moving out from the impact of the of the rock. 211 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:35.240 That's I think that's globally fairly uniform as a symbol 212 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:40.120 of water. But some of the storylines they could not confirm, 213 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:44.600 and they were hesitant to do so. It was like, 214 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:51.440 those are ancestors. That's their story. It's not my story, 215 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.799 and I don't want to presume to know that story. 216 00:16:55.960 --> 00:17:02.399 That's that's interesting. Are there paintings of interactions with the 217 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.039 Spanish that you found or are they much much earlier 218 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:07.559 by thousands of years. 219 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:12.279 It's a very good question. There have been some carbon 220 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:18.359 dating of implements in the caves themselves that go back 221 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.400 let's say four hundred to six hundred years, so they're 222 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:25.279 not ancient paintings like you would find in Europe. They're 223 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.599 not ten thousand years old. These are much more contemporary. 224 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:33.160 And I know of one painting that had gold crosses, 225 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:35.960 much like you would see on the chest of a 226 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:41.920 Jesuit priest. There's another painting in the southern Sierra Ares 227 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:50.880 of an expedition, specifically an expedition that Spanish lad in 228 00:17:51.000 --> 00:18:00.720 the mid seventeen and seventeen sixties, and these were clearly 229 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:07.119 cowboys or cowboy like on horses, and I believe that 230 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:09.799 that is part of that expedition, which was only two 231 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:12.200 hundred and it's only two hundred and fifty years ago. 232 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:13.440 Oh interesting. 233 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:20.480 So there is a range I think of more contemporary paintings, 234 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:24.839 perhaps extending before the Spanish arrived, but I think it 235 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.960 includes the early part of mission history. 236 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:37.920 That's fascinating. Did according to your book, were there explorations 237 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:42.039 that were sanctioned by Cortes into the Baja area or 238 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:45.160 did it just was it just kind of a natural 239 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.960 migration that the Spanish would be seeking out as many 240 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:54.039 lands as they could, and so Baja became another destination. 241 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:58.960 The fascinating part of the history to me is that 242 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:07.480 Cortes conquered the Aztecs Tinachalon in the fifteen twenties fifteen 243 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:12.960 twenty three, twenty four, and her name was her Nan. 244 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.400 Cortes was he was. He's a conquistador, and he wasn't 245 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:20.400 much of an administrator, although some would say he was 246 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:24.079 a good governor of Mexico when it first was created. 247 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:31.440 But his natural inclination was to extend New Spain Northwarods 248 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:39.279 and that meant mainland Mexico. But it also meant California, 249 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:44.960 which was the name was popularized by a writer in 250 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.880 Seville in fifteen ten. It became a very popular book, 251 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:52.559 and California was described as being to the right of 252 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:59.279 terrestrial paradise and run by a queen Khalifa. Actually it's 253 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:09.319 Queen Kalais. Some say Khalifa. Wo, so sorry, and I 254 00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:13.799 think Hernand Cortes felt that if he could equate that 255 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:20.359 northern island of California with something that was close and 256 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:25.119 it had some fictional popularity with it, that it would 257 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:34.759 be easier to convince the king to underwrite his conquest northwards. Well, 258 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:39.079 the King was interested, but he basically told Cortes, hey, 259 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:43.000 you've got plenty of money from plundering the Aztecs. Use 260 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:49.640 your own money to find this California. So Cortes did. 261 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:55.200 He was expecting more gold, more silver, more riches, akin 262 00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:59.319 to what he found with the Aztecs, which he did not, 263 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:05.000 but ultimately it took three voyages northwards from the Pacific 264 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.400 coast of New Spain of Mexico to actually land in 265 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.960 the southern part of Baja California. He called that spot 266 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:20.200 Santa Cruz, but a later conquistador renamed it a Lapase. 267 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:24.200 So it's the city of Lapause in the very southern 268 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:28.559 cape region of Baja California, which became the first landing 269 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:30.960 place of Europeans. 270 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:35.319 Yeah, you know, I had to remark that you have 271 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:39.119 this great map in your book that shows some of 272 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:42.480 these trailways. But what also was intriguing is all the 273 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:47.920 missions that are located in Baja are those actually functioning 274 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.640 missions now or are they just more like foundations in 275 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.119 the buildings themselves are gone. 276 00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:59.240 There's a mix there. The Spanish when they say they 277 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:04.799 found did a mission and let's say fifteen or let's 278 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:12.440 say sixteen ninety seven that was Loretto founding, is really 279 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:18.359 the the location of where the mission is going to be. 280 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.039 It has nothing to do with the completion of any 281 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:25.880 structure itself. Oh something happened here? 282 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.960 Does that mean you're coming across perfect? Oh? Good? 283 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.119 So the first mission was typically stick constructed I mean 284 00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:45.400 branches providing some shade and relief from the sun. The 285 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:50.680 second was typically adobe that replaced it, and adobe walls 286 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:56.359 and probably woodn't roof structures as well. The third was 287 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:03.480 actually cut rock that was strengthened with cement, and it 288 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.440 would take typically eighty to one hundred years to get 289 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:12.480 from the sticks to the cut rock finished a church itself. 290 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:18.519 So many of these churches were begun by the Jesuits, 291 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.680 and some reached cut rock proportions by the time they 292 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:28.640 were kicked out of California seventy years later, but most 293 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:34.799 were completed by the Dominicans in the early eighteen hundreds. 294 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.160 Yeah, I mean, I've been to Mexico many times. In 295 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:45.000 the Yucatan, they take they deconstruct the pyramids of the 296 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.480 Maya to build their cathedrals. Is that what some of 297 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:54.200 the there weren't temples or pyramids by this indigenous people 298 00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:55.880 were there, No. 299 00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:04.160 They were not. They were a hogan, willow constructed structure 300 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:08.480 that was small enough for typically a family. There were 301 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.839 larger hogans that were used as tribal meeting rooms, but 302 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:18.640 to my knowledge, nothing was really constructed of cut rock 303 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:24.359 or cement that was definitely a European invention brought to 304 00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:25.359 the New World. 305 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:32.960 Interesting, let's talk about Khalifa, who exactly is she? Is 306 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:36.680 she an actual person or is it more of a myth. 307 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:41.799 Lifa is definitely a myth. In the book that was 308 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.480 printed in Seville in fifteen ten, she was an Amazon 309 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:53.559 queen of the island of California that used golden. 310 00:24:54.839 --> 00:25:00.000 Armaments to fend off men that the island was strictly 311 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:05.599 of women. Men were invited on occasion to presumably replicate 312 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:09.519 the race, but as soon as as soon as that 313 00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:12.079 was done, the men were kicked off the island, and 314 00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:17.920 so it was just it was a fictional character from 315 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:23.240 an author that actually named a fictional place called California. 316 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:25.640 I took that. 317 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:34.240 Fictional figure, Khalifa, and turned it into a primary personage 318 00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:38.240 of the book itself. Queen Khalifa, I use the word 319 00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:40.960 Cali in the book, but she was a seventeen year 320 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.519 old young woman healer who had a great deal of 321 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:50.319 empathy and an ambition to become a chief of the 322 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:56.119 Kachin tribe. And she was created primarily from one of 323 00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:59.440 the cave paintings in the Sierra San Francisco just north 324 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.359 of San Ignacio. She was incorporated next to a painted 325 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:09.079 man and then a painted mountain lion, larger than life 326 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:14.079 mountain lion, and she was between the mountain lion and 327 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.400 the man, and her positioning was at the very apex 328 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:25.519 of the mural, in the most noticeable position. And I 329 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:27.920 could not help but feel that she had played a 330 00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:32.480 large part in the coach Me tribe history, cultural history, 331 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:36.960 and that she was a person of renown. So she 332 00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:41.240 became one of the focal characters of the book of 333 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:41.759 the story. 334 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:47.799 As you're on this trail in seven nineteen seventy five, 335 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.119 you are befriended by different families and you direct you 336 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.559 write a great deal about this who were very open 337 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:58.920 and receiving you, and occasionally you had a meal and 338 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:03.160 were able to sleep there. We're going to take a 339 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.680 short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, 340 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:12.039 and we will return shortly with my guest today, Alan Egart, 341 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:19.039 discussing his newest book, The Elusive Conquest of Queen Khalifa, 342 00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:23.119 will be right back. 343 00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:40.200 Don't you want to get to know me? I bet 344 00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:48.119 I'm stuck inside yourn. I see you with mighty but 345 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:55.480 look in my way all night to keep your hands. 346 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.559 My guest today is histori orian Alan Egart, who has 347 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.839 written a new book called The Elusive Conquest of Queen Khalifa, 348 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:17.920 a fictitious character whose name eventually morphed into California. Did 349 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.240 you get any kind of a historical reference from these 350 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:28.200 visits with the people who have lived there for perhaps generations, Yes, 351 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:29.799 we did. 352 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.200 They're very On one hand, they're very proud of their history. 353 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.319 They know how many generations back. The first of their 354 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:44.240 name a surname Cain. For instance, in the Cape region 355 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:48.960 of Baja California, there were parts of the Sierras that 356 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:53.039 had just one name associated with all of those ranches, 357 00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:58.160 and for instance it was a a name made of 358 00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:04.039 Sisaania and Banyagau. Sosanio was Italian and Benyaga, unusually was 359 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:08.319 a Filipino. And I realized that many of the Philippines 360 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:14.400 came back from the Asia during the days of the galleons, 361 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.839 the Spanish galleons, and actually homestead at the southern part 362 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.680 of Baja California. So there was I think there was 363 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.839 a pride in the fact that they had been there 364 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:31.440 for generations to come. They were also they also admitted 365 00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:37.319 to having Indian blood in their veins, that they were 366 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:42.559 essentially the descendants of an Indian woman and a Spanish 367 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:49.519 soldier that accompanied typically the missionaries. Many of the soldiers, 368 00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:54.200 of course, were given grants, land grants to create ranches, 369 00:29:54.680 --> 00:30:00.200 and there were no European or Spanish women there at 370 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:05.039 the time, and it's only natural for Indian women to 371 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:11.759 become married to these Spanish men over time, so they 372 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:16.200 understood that they were part Indian or Mestizo, but they 373 00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:22.000 liked to be called Mexicans first, Latino second, andina Mestiso 374 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:27.960 kind of a distant there's still a bias against the 375 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:35.440 indigenous natives. But you know, to me, in my view, 376 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:42.599 there was a richness in their hereditary that actually helped 377 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:47.079 them survive in that landscape, and there was a genius 378 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:52.599 that that came with that hunter gatherer culture that extended 379 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:54.599 well into the Mexican bloodline. 380 00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:01.400 Fascinating. How did the Spanish expl yours come to believe 381 00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:07.480 that the area was ruled by a powerful queen? The book. 382 00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:12.000 The book was I don't have the name of it 383 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:13.839 right in front of me, and I'm embarrassed to say it, 384 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:21.160 but it was again published in Seville, Spain, in fifteen ten, 385 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:26.640 and by the time that Cortes had conquered the Aztecs, 386 00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:30.200 I think it was in its fourth printing, and so 387 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:38.799 Queen Khalifa was again a purely fictional romantic figure in 388 00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:44.920 that book, but was used frequently by Cortes and his 389 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:52.720 captains and soldiers. California became the name of this peninsula 390 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.200 what then was thought to be an island that extended 391 00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:59.319 from Kabosu Lucas all the way up to the marine 392 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:06.960 area of Upper California. And so California was large, and 393 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.960 in the early maps it was portrayed as a very 394 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:15.880 large island offshore of New Spain or Mexico. But in reality, 395 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.279 of course, it was a part of peninsula of the continent, 396 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:25.880 and it took them almost two hundred years to confirm 397 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.039 the fact that it was indeed an island. 398 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:36.720 Wonderful, So we're does Cortes go around the tip of 399 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:41.759 the Cape Horn and then up to the Pacific Ocean 400 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:46.359 to settle or are they crossing the land from Mexico 401 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:49.079