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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sicco's the post mortem train rolls

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on the Atlanta Hawks.

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Speaker 2: Grant, I'll take them. I'll take us.

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Speaker 1: Through their off season finals over thirty five million.

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Speaker 2: Below the tack if they renounce the rights to.

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Speaker 1: Plain Papella, Larry Dan Junior, and Karris Forvert closer to

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like ten to fifteen million below the tax. If they

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carry the Verts hold, which is almost twenty five million dollars,

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I would assume he ends up costing less, so like

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they'll have more flexibility if he's signing for less than

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twenty five million dollars a year and staying the moral

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of this story is they should be able to access

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the full non tax payer mid level if they want to.

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But they're also a team that we know is not

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going to pay the tax, so their room. It's not

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just oh, how much room do they have beneath the

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first apron, which are hard capped at if you use

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the non tax payer mid level, it's more so can

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they stay under the tax and have access to that tool?

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They probably can, but that'll be fascinating, also fascinating. Trey

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Young extension eligible four years, two hundred and twenty eight

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twenty nine points six million, whatever the number is, he

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can sign also Dyson Daniels rookie scale extension eligible. And finally,

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and most importantly, well the one they're still looking for

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a lead basketball executive as we record this, but two,

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they can trade up to it and think it'll end

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up being five first round picks, even with the way

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the San Antonio commitments shake out. They have that twenty

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twenty seventh selection coming over from it's gonna be the

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that's the Pelicans or the Bucks that it'll come from.

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So they have that, and they can trade their own

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first in twenty nine and twenty thirty one, though I

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certainly would not advocate in favor of them doing So.

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Speaker 2: How do you feeling about these Hawks entering the off season? Well,

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I think the.

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Speaker 3: Rise of some of their youth leaves me a little

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conflicted because, yeah, and certainly, like I've been team, it's

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time to trade Trey Young for like probably way to

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craft it. Yeah, yeah, like for most of his career,

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I guess, And now it's kind of like, well, part

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of it is just the trade landscape in general. But

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I'm not, I'm less, I'm less glued to that idea.

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But to get to the younger player's point. It's like,

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I mean, resa sche was as advertised or slightly better.

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I think Daniels had had a breakthrough year in Daniels right,

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and a kong Wu took over the starting job. He's

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a little he's twenty four, so he's not like the

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full on youth brigade, but he's like young enough and

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he's just on his second contract that he's part of that.

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And Jalen Johnson, who knows how big this year's leap

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would have been if he'd stayed healthy. Like signs were

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looking pretty good. So like, I don't know, Like I

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weirdly for the more so than in any of the

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last handful of offseasons for the Hawks, I'm kind of like,

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I think I kind of like what they have for

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the most part, and I don't don't love a big swing,

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And if they can just kind of trust the youth

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to develop, I think they're a playoff team next year.

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So like, I don't know that we certainly we can

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get into like what their options are, what they should do,

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how they should operate relatives to the cap and the

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tax line and all that stuff, but like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel that way?

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Speaker 3: Or are you does Trey sort of now stick out

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like a sore thumb more than he used to? Or

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like where are you?

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Speaker 1: In general, I think I mostly agree with you. He

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doesn't stick out like a sore thumb to me. If

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he was, I would say, if he's willing to sign

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the extension, I might just offer it to him.

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Speaker 2: But I've also given a lot of thought to is

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he Could it be him?

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Speaker 1: I think Jaron Jackson Junior will be a good case

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study of this of our team's going to start being

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more selective with who they're giving these MAX extensions to.

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And it's different because Trey Young's isn't going to be

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a super max. But like the MAVs didn't want to

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pay Luca the regular max, it seemed like basically so

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how the new front office regime, given the direction that

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they're going in, are do you actually want to max

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out Trey Young and have him continue to be the

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focal point. I think they need to figure that out independent,

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because we know they're not going to get their own

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picks back from San Antonio for him. But I would

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agree with you that with what we saw from Reesa,

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say Resa Schet this year and Daniels and j Allen

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Johnson before he got injured again, which's a big can

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he finished the season healthy. Well, there's a team that

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can make some real noise in the East, but you.

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Speaker 2: Do get caught.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm with you in this sense that if

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you're gonna decide that you want to sit on Tree Young,

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I'm kind of sitting on the.

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Speaker 2: Rest of the roster too and letting it go.

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Speaker 1: I would like to see them get different at the

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five spot. I like on Yekka kung Wu, but you

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need someone who's either a younger version of Clint Capella

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or maybe just a more like even more of a

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versatile version where he has size but can make more

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decisions with the ball, maybe operate a little bit from

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the perimeter and addition to setting screens and you know,

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being a target for Young on the pick and roll.

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If they were gonna be aggressive or if I had

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to identify, oh, this is what I want to see

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them do, they could use some shooting. But I kind

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of look at the five spot again. As much as

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I like a Kung Wu, I am with you in

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the sense that I'm not doing anything major here, and personally,

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I don't even know, if I'm trading Trey Young if

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there's someone there's a godfather offer out there. But part

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of the problem for me is you don't trade a

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guy just because.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like if you do sign him to that extension,

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Let's say let's say he goes the full for two

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twenty nine ish, is he more tradable, you know, with

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that level of security or is that like just too

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scary of a commitment and a team might rather have

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him for like this year next year and then who

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knows what happens with the twenty six twenty seven player option.

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Do you think do you think it's could the Hawks

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just sign the deal because they're like, this is like

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it's an extreme example of like if the Rockets pick

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up Van Vliet's team option, it might just mean they

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intend to trade him.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. I yeah, because I would. And also

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couldn't you look at it as how poorly could that

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deal really age?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean you just think. I think

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I think it's implied that Young is going to be

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like pretty close to what he's been the last couple

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of years going forward, right, Like he's not going to

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fall off a cliff. He should shoot it better. That

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should be the expectation. So yeah, it should age should

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age fairly. Well, it's not like he's he's a small guard,

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so there's that concern, but it's not like he's super

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dependent on like Russell Westbrook athleticism or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Is there even a team that you think, I guess

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Houston could theoretically be one of them, but that just

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seems antithetical to what they're kind of thinking right now.

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Is there even a team that you think could use

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Trey Young and then would also be interested him to

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wear Maybe that gets the Hawks thinking, or if he bristles,

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maybe they offer me the extension, doesn't want to sign it.

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Now that's when you have to look at moving Trey Young.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean in Orlando has to be thrown out

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there with if you're gonna mention Houston, I mean, like

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the thing is onboarding Trey Young is is like he

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changes the way that you play on both ends like that.

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Just now, you might say that a team like Houston

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or Orlando can certainly get away like insulate him better defensively,

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but you are just going to become I mean, even

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if you want to credit him for being off the

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ball a little more this past year, like you're gonna

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be pretty heliocentric, like because he's out there to have

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the ball a lot and make the pass shoot decision,

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which is like it's not that long ago that we

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were all just like yeah, I mean, if you have

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Trey Young your top you're a top seven offense or whatever.

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That's just he's that good. I don't see a reason

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he can't get back to that. So so like I

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I would be cognizant of the fact as a Houston

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for example, that like this will change a lot if

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you bring in someone like this. But I don't know

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if I don't know if you want to overthink it

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because I like he will address your issue like that's

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that will happen for them.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if he would be the target for me.

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Speaker 1: I want Tom Houston, but he makes more sense in

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Houston than Orlando to where you don't want to displace

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Palo and Franz too much in the ball and then

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pretty much everyone in Houston, with the exception of maybe

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Opera and Shanggud it's like yeah, like no.

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Speaker 3: We're fine, or if you yeah, or if you really

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think amn, Thompson just has like three extra levels to

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jump as like an on ball playmaking type guy. And

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and he makes shots like I'm or actually, I don't

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know how you didn't mention this. Do you really want

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to bring someone in that's gonna play over read Shepherd.

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Speaker 1: Trey Young wouldn't be my trade target, Like if it's

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Devin Booker, there's still a pathway if you don't give up,

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reed Shepherd to him pass theming into the role that

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he was born to assume, the Dice and Daniels extension eligibility.

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Speaker 2: What are you what are you paying?

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Speaker 1: He's not getting the max. We don't need to go

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into what the max number is gonna be. But where

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do you pay this guy?

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Speaker 3: Would Caruso get four for eighty? Is the number around there?

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I'm not going over that. I mean maybe you could

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make the youth argument and like the possible offensive development

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continuing argument, but like he's just not a better defender

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than Caruso, and that's what you have him out there

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for more than anything.

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Speaker 1: I would say he has a ton of leverage after

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winning Most Improved Player if he get If you get

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him for twenty million dollars annually, I think you probably

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have to pounce on I don't know that the number

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is gonna get better. Now if I'm the team and

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he says I want four for one hundred or something

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or whatever, like four for one twenty whatever it ends

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up being, then it's that's why.

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Speaker 2: Restricted free agency exists.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you get into it and see if the market

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would And maybe that's the case for what's the team

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when he still doesn't really like he's he has that floater.

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We know what he does defensively, he's a pretty good passer, Like,

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what is the team that's gonna come out of the

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woodwork in twenty twenty six with this monster offer?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: And and like he as as much as he did

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improve and as good as he was on defense, Like

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you know, Trey Jung is one of a handful of

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guys that's like, all right, we have him, so we

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can accommodate Daniels, you know what I mean? Like that

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his limitations still are there. Uh, maybe maybe they disappear

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next year if he's if this trajectory continues, but like

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he's not the cleanest fit everywhere, so you can't I

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don't think you can pay him as if he's a

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surefire starter on a random team on any team, right,

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because I just don't know if that's I'm not sold

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on that yet.

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Speaker 1: I think in terms of rookie scale extensions, I don't

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know if he's the most interesting one for me, but

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I'm gonna I'm be so fast I see where the

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number comes in at or he does, feel like because

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of kind of the ambiguity of what is our what

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is Atlanta doing here? And whoever comes in, They're like,

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that's this isn't like they didn't value Dyson Daniels the

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way the Hawks did in the Pelicanstrait. That was someone

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out whether it was Fields or somebody else in the

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front office, that was somebody else. So it does feel

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like I would expect him to sign it a extension.

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But I also I am like I could also see that

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one leaking into restricted free agency because of the circumstances.

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Speaker 3: Right, and the and the Hawks just like aversion to

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paying more than they have to and trying to duct

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the tax and all that stuff, like they're I'm sure

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they're okay with with I think everybody's gonna operate this way.

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I really think teams are just gonna squeeze guys because

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there's just no money out there. And I think the

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landscape's changing.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, but I always feel like, for

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some reason, there appears to be an exception when it's

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even when it's a non star and they're your own

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free agent, kind of like Nicholas Claxton who was giving

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him four and one hundred last year, or even this

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year with Josh Giddy, like who is coming in with

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There's one team that has a shit ton of cap

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space and we don't think they're gonna use it on

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the free agency market. So I I am curious to

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see if we start to see the higher profile squeezes

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where I don't. I used the Cavs did it with

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Isaaca Korro a little bit with how.

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Speaker 2: Long it took him to sign it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that was a while, So I'm interesting does that

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become more commonplace? Yeah, that's a good question. What do

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you This changes a great deal depending on what happens

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with Young But if we assume that just the base

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of this team is what they kind of plan on

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moving forward, do you agree that you want to see

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something different at centers? They're a bigger need that you're identifying,

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and is there or even maybe I'll ask this question,

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what is the not It doesn't even have to be

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like this player is a target, Like what is the

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ideal big for this roster?

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Speaker 3: Well, so I was that's what I want to focus on.

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So like a Kongo was making an average of what

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like sixteen over the next four years, maybe a little

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less than that, and I actually really like him. I

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think he's improved a lot. I do think the three

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point shooting is going to become increasingly a thing for him.

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But at the same time, I do I guess like

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if he's not your starter and you go out and

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you're gonna spend money on someone to start ahead of him,

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I think you're going like you almost because Kong was good,

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Like I don't know where he ranks and starting centers

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in the league, Like he's not in the top ten

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or anything, or top fifteen probably, but like he's a

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legit starter to me, if you go out and get

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somebody to play over him, like how much are you

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paying that guy? And then how comfortable are you with

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that guy's salary at center? Plus a Kong Wu making

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like high high end backup center money, which is like

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a cardinal sin of like you just can't pay backup centers.

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You know, anything close to the mid level or what

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unless your needs are super specific and you have cheap

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stuff elsewhere, you know, so like I almost think they

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I think a Kong was just gonna have to be

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the guy. And then if that's the way it is

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going forward, you can spend a minimum on a backup

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and that's fine, and maybe play Jalen Johnson at some

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five against certain lineups. But then it's like, if you

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don't bring Lavert back, then you just need a Lavert type,

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because I do still think if you know, it's Bogdanovich

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held it down for a long time. They tried it

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with the Jeante Murray, Lavert was pretty you know, I

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think you need that type of guy, and it might

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just be Lvert and you're gonna be able to get

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him at less than his cap hold, as you alluded to.

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But I like their wings, I like their forwards. If

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you believe in a Kong Wu, then that really does

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just leave like the offense first combo guard or or

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offense first kind of wing type.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I would agree.

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Speaker 1: I guess the center stuff though, I'm just wondering, what

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does the rebounding look like if it's Jalen Johnson and

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Okungu in the front court, which is why it could

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be concerning. But maybe to your point, then it's a

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change of pace big that's coming off the bench behind

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a Kungou.

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Speaker 2: It's not we need or five because the Congu is

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really good. I do agree with you.

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Speaker 1: And he's super versatile, can make stuff as a playmaker

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on offense, moves really well on defense. I think WaveRT

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is kind of like you don't want to overpay him,

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but for the role that it feels like they need,

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Like he's almost kind of maybe you want something just

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a little bit better of a passer, but like the

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way he's for the most part improved, he's like a

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shooter and a defender over the past two or three years,

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it kind of feels like he's just like, yeah, you

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should resign that guy.

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Speaker 3: Right like, and if you don't, and you try to

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get cheaper and go find like maybe there's another tie

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Jerome out there, like somebody like that that you could

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realistically give a rotation role to. I think you'd have

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to be pretty confident that like Daniels is gonna improve

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as a playmaker, that Jalen Johnson will continue to improve

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as a playmaker that uh reesa Cha adds more layers

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to his game. Like, so you could get away with that,

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but that would feel like a gamble, I think, Lavert.

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I think you just kind of at this point you

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understand what you're getting from him, and maybe you want

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somebody with a little more upside. But like you're I

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think you're taking a pretty big risk if you think

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you're gonna go just find that guy and be able

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to get him like below market.

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Speaker 1: You know, what is what? What if they did decide

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to move Trey Young?

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Speaker 2: Like what is that? What becomes of this ausse?

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Speaker 1: I guess they've kind of done a lot of their

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Bogdanovitch is gone, DeAndre Hunter is gone. I guess aside

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from Trey Young, it's you wouldn't look at well, like

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this guy needs to go. The only thing would be,

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are you how the person who's coming in and running

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here front office do they give any thought to Well,

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would san Antonio give us our picks back for Jalen Johnson?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I mean if Trey Young, that'd be something

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to consider.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if Young, if Young is gonna go, then like

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normally you would have said, well Capella has gone too,

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But they just never could trade him, and now he's

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coming off the books. Everybody else is young enough that

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you could conceivably just be like, yeah, we'll try to

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grow it around these guys, except like Johnson's already making

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thirty a kongs on his second deal, like you're probably

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gonna It's just it would be hard, I feel like,

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because then don't you still unless it's this massive bet

358
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on like Daniels and Johnson and recently, don't you need

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someone to like run the offense again, like you aren't

360
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you just looking for someone who can do some of

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what Trey used to do.

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Speaker 1: Well all of what Trey used to do, and maybe

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can play off the ball or like bigger and.

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Speaker 2: Right all of it and more.

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Speaker 3: That's a bit that's like when you fire a coach

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and you have no idea if there's a better coach

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out there, You just like, we can't do it with

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this guy. That feels risky.

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Speaker 1: I will say, maybe we already talked about this, but

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00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,879
of that like Ja Morant Trey Young challenge trade that

371
00:15:45,919 --> 00:15:48,799
I've seen floating around, I loathe it for Atlanta. If

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00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,519
that's like the direct in their head hit, it's no

373
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you stick with and just based off where they're at

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with their picks, and I kind of see the vision

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of what they're trying to do around Trey Young. I'm

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probably keeping Tray Young because it's just like there's no

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00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:01,919
as of right now, there's no real upside to not

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00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,240
competing in the East next year. I think they have

379
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:07,279
a good enough roster to where some futzing and fiddling.

380
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:09,639
Like you said, bring back Laverder if you think you

381
00:16:09,639 --> 00:16:11,279
can upgrade from him, And I would like to see

382
00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:14,200
like a different type of big on this roster, maybe

383
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,440
like Thlink Capella, but Younger would make a lot of

384
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,159
sense or can like do better on like catching or

385
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,120
decision making.

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Speaker 2: With the ball.

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Speaker 1: I think that you could be like if you told

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00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,399
me they were six in the top six in the

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00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,960
East last year, there's maybe what two or three teams

390
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,039
that are I guess more than that, like three four

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00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,080
that are guaranteed to still be in like that top

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four mix.

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00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like it would feel unambitious because like, no

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00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:37,279
matter what they did, if they brought back this whole group,

395
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,000
we wouldn't say, like I think they're a top three

396
00:16:39,039 --> 00:16:40,919
team in the East, like they just can't get there.

397
00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:44,279
But like I think they have enough young, interesting players

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00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,519
and Johnson still fits into this and Reese Chay certainly does.

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00:16:47,799 --> 00:16:51,480
Where it's like it it is unambitious, but it's okay

400
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:53,879
because like from a fan perspective, you still have the

401
00:16:53,919 --> 00:16:56,399
growth of these young, like exciting guys to watch, and

402
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,440
it's just easier to deal with a forty three win

403
00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:03,440
team if there's like, if there's a perception of upside

404
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,920
because you have young players that are getting better, I

405
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:06,319
don't know.

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00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,799
Speaker 1: I would say if you do, if you did get

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00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,799
rid of Trey Young, the benefit would be, oh, we

408
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,720
could really stress test Zachary Reiche's offensive armory. But then

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00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,799
I'm also like, I think zacharyche looked really good on

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00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:20,799
offense this year because he didn't have to do like

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00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,480
by the end of it, because he do that stuff.

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Speaker 2: So you're like, you're making a really big dice roll.

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Speaker 1: There's I think a lot of the times, I'm sure

414
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,079
I'm guilty of it where it's we conflate just like

415
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,039
this player makes a lot there at this point in

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00:17:31,079 --> 00:17:33,640
their career, it's gonna hurt the development of the youngsters.

417
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,000
I actually really think, like I've become a big believer

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00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:38,000
in like no, like some of these dudes can streamline the.

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Speaker 2: Development of players.

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Speaker 1: Really have no business shouldering that type of role even

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as their development.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is an The Hawks are an example

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of that. All Right, that's gonna do it. Thanks everybody

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00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:49,680
for listening, for watching. If you have not already, please

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00:17:49,759 --> 00:17:52,880
remember to rate for you and subscribe. If you're watching

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00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,680
this on YouTube because the thumbs up, leave as a

427
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,839
comment there. Join our discord links for that or in

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00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,720
the YouTube podcast description. Tell your friends, Tell your enemies

429
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,039
shouts franklo Kine apologies, Jared Allen