WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:02.680 Hudson River Radio dot com. 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:04.280 It beats listening to nothing. 3 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:10.199 My goodness, being Frank, where the only way to be 4 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:16.199 is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank. We're 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:20.359 the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, FRANKL. Borne, 6 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:22.199 and I'd like to thank you for joining us on 7 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:26.559 what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where 8 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:29.600 no conversation is out of bounds and all points of 9 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:32.719 view are welcome. We record live to tape. I give 10 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:35.880 you the date so you have some relevance and context. 11 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:40.119 Is the fifth of February Black History Month. One of 12 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:43.520 the first things the new administration under President Donald J. 13 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:46.719 Trump did was to not only shut down the Department 14 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:51.280 of Equity and Inclusion the DEI, but to obliterate the 15 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:54.560 very mention of the words, as if they conveyed some 16 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:58.719 type of filthy message. It also attempts to destroy years 17 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:02.479 of important good efforts to level the playing field for 18 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.879 all Americans. The executive order even goes so far as 19 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:11.120 to eliminate cultural celebrations like Black History Month from the 20 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:15.159 federal calendar. In frustration, many say, but he's the president. 21 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.200 What can we do well? We can fight back by 22 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.200 refusing to endorse the bigotry the orders represent, and that 23 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:25.000 it's exactly what we're doing here at being Frank. By 24 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:30.200 continuing to celebrate Black History Month, my guest represents the 25 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:33.719 very best of equity and conclusion with his life's work 26 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:38.599 of empowering undeserved communities through theater, arts, and more. He's 27 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.280 a playwright, director, teacher, mentor, the executive director of the 28 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:47.040 award winning Shant's Repertory Theater and my longtime friend mister 29 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:50.120 Samuel Harps. Samuel, thank you so much for taking the 30 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:51.519 time and joining us today. 31 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:54.000 So glad to be you've been looking forward to it, Frank. 32 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:56.200 You know I was thinking earlier. I've known you for 33 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:57.799 over thirty years. Man. 34 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:01.719 You know, yeah, it's it's pretty amazing when you stop 35 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:07.040 to think about it. How time does fly? So I 36 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:10.199 know you. But let's assume people in our listening audience 37 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.840 don't tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, 38 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:14.800 and how you came to where you are today. 39 00:02:15.319 --> 00:02:19.560 Okay, kind of brief, but I've been in Rockland County, 40 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.960 I guess you know, about thirty five years. I'm a transplant. 41 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:27.479 My sisters and I were raised in a military family, 42 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.800 so We traveled around quite a bit, you know, and 43 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:34.759 finally settled in the Norfolk Tywood area north of Virginia. 44 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:39.199 And I came to New York in nineteen eighty eight 45 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.560 on an internship at New Dramatists, right next door to 46 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.800 the Actors Studio, So quite fortunate there and that was 47 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:51.000 my start. Fell in love with to Rocklander, who kind 48 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.439 of brought me up to nyactin, fell in love with nyacting. 49 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:56.240 When we broke up, I decided to stay. It's a 50 00:02:56.280 --> 00:03:00.280 great community and I'm happy to be here. At our 51 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:04.120 youth theater about twenty two years ago up in Havistraw, 52 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.000 which was a mentorship we kind of got the kids 53 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:12.199 who didn't get cast in the really big high school 54 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:14.439 and junior high school productions. They were starting to have, 55 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:16.800 you know, guys and dolls and so on and so forth, 56 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.120 and we found ourselves in the community of community theaters 57 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:23.479 that were only doing guys and dolls and damn Yankees, 58 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.759 but they weren't doing new works by African American Latinos 59 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:30.800 or anyone else for that matter. So we were kind 60 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:33.560 of like the what do you call it, the small 61 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.520 fish in the big pond or whatever that metaphor is yeah. 62 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:40.599 You know, Samuel, this is so important too. As I 63 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.319 mentioned in the thing with the struggle against DEI, I mean, 64 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:49.599 you're talking about inclusion, equity, being equal, not better, but 65 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:52.960 certainly not less, okay, and being included. And I want 66 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.360 to talk a little bit about in more detail as 67 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:58.240 our conversation continues, but I want to find it and 68 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.680 get a little bit more into Samuel, what drew you 69 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:03.319 to the theater? You mentioned you were next to it, 70 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:06.919 but what was it about theater that grabbed you? 71 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:09.680 You know, a great question, and I love when people 72 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.240 ask that in different variations. But I came about kind 73 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:16.480 of late in the game. I mean again, I was 74 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.399 we were in Germany doing most of the height of 75 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.720 the civil rights movement, just kicking off, so you know, 76 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.839 we kind of looked at I wanted to be Jimmy 77 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.319 hendrick Man or Jim Morrison, so I had to you know. 78 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:30.920 And on the other side of that the Temptations and 79 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.120 Smoking Robinson, so I was like right back in the middle. 80 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:38.360 And music, as always is what kind of bridged all races. 81 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:41.920 I mean, you know, I know many groups you know 82 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.879 that are frost Slining Family Stone and so on, and 83 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:49.279 so forth. But with being in Germany, and I come 84 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.959 from a military family all the way back to the 85 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.600 Civil War. Black men in my family have fought in wars. 86 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:00.920 My father went to Korea Vietnam twice. He said he 87 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:03.800 wasn't finished the first time, so he decided to go back. 88 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:08.519 I have cousins, two uncles, one that died in Vietnam. 89 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:12.079 Both my sisters are military, one fought in Kuwait, the 90 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:16.879 other in Afghanistan. Myself, I'm a veteran, very patriotic family, 91 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:21.360 which sounds to some people like an oxymorn. A black 92 00:05:21.399 --> 00:05:24.879 person is patriotic, But black people built this place, man, 93 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.600 We're just as patriotic as anyone else, probably more so. 94 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:31.839 You know. Honestly, I joined the military because I just 95 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:35.079 got bored with college. And you know, I was in 96 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:37.399 the middle of the dream beferred. You know, I was 97 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.040 right at my teen years when Woodstock was going on. 98 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:43.360 They were dancing and marching in the streets. But again, 99 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:46.800 I came about here at thirteen fourteen from a different 100 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:51.360 perspective of America, you know, and in Germany, being black, 101 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:56.199 the only racism I felt was being an American. They 102 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:01.040 were Chinese classmates, Italians, you know, Jewish across the board, 103 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.759 so I just thought I was American. That was it, 104 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.639 except for German girls and German boys. The young ones 105 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:09.319 when we got into the small towns wanted to rub 106 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.160 to see if this black actually rubbed off. But it wasn't. 107 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:14.040 That happened to me in China. I know that actually 108 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.839 does happen, and it's not. It's not a say racist thing. 109 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:20.639 They don't think you're so unusual. They don't see people, man. 110 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:23.439 I mean it was nineteen sixty three, so a lot 111 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:27.000 of these kids had never seen a black person. So 112 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:31.920 they were just like, it's curiosity, not racism. Maybe curiosity 113 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.000 eighty percent to me, but who knows. Basically I took 114 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.920 it as being curiosity. I did as well. If it 115 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:40.720 really rubbed off, you know, it doesn't, except for when 116 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:42.639 I really scrub hard, when I'd take in a shower, 117 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.759 it does come just a little bit. But then coming 118 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:49.120 to America again, with all of that, we were bust. 119 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:53.399 We lived right in the middle of a white community 120 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.600 because military bases in the Tiword area are close to 121 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:00.680 pretty affluent white communities. So my sisters and I were 122 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:03.879 actually busted from a white community to a black school 123 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:05.920 and we were there for the first time at an 124 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:10.360 all black school, and we were I was dumbfounded. I 125 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.720 mean I again, I looked like Jimmy Hendrix at the 126 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:16.240 time at fourteen, you know, my hair stood in my 127 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.199 afro like this. I had an afro like that. But 128 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.279 then it kind of like did that you know, headbands 129 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:24.879 and you know beat it vests. So I was an 130 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:28.199 odd ball, you know, in a place where I should 131 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:33.879 have been seen as one of my peers. But I 132 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:36.959 had to get into my first fight because a brother 133 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:39.360 told me he wanted to show me how to be 134 00:07:39.399 --> 00:07:42.079 a brother, you know, because there's a walk to it, 135 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.839 there's a talk to it, there's a rhythm to being black. 136 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:48.639 And if you don't know what that rhythm is, you know, 137 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.439 not only do what I be accepted, you can get 138 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:55.079 your ass with. I'm being very friends. So yeah, so 139 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.600 it was it was an interesting time. You know. I 140 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:01.560 was a surf you know, as well as a guy 141 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:04.720 who was really good at basketball, you know, so it 142 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.240 was just a cut between them both again, Jim Morrison, 143 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:12.160 James Brown, you know Sliner, Family Stone, Lin Zeppelin, you 144 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:17.639 know I. You know, my friends were diverse, you know, Chinese, African, 145 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:19.720 American White the works. 146 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:24.560 So thank you so much for sharing that with us, Sambuel. 147 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:26.279 In all the years that I've known you too, I 148 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.560 didn't know that part of you, So I really appreciate 149 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:31.519 you sharing with it. And I don't want to make 150 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:33.440 this entirely about the E because I want to talk 151 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:35.759 about you. Got some new work, and I promise we're 152 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:37.840 going to devote some time to that. Two new things 153 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:41.600 coming up in February, and we are going to devote 154 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.120 some time to that. But I think this is an 155 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.720 important conversation to have again, especially in light of what's 156 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:50.919 going on today. So a person with your perspective, you know, 157 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.399 And it's interesting and I'm quote unquote Italian American and 158 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:59.519 Sicilian American, and my family's only been here two generations, 159 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.960 and yet people will look at me as you know, 160 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:05.840 and your family has been here for multiple generations and 161 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.559 served as my father served in World War Two, your 162 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:12.480 family has served forever. How does it make you feel 163 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.519 when you hear somebody say, well, you know, Trump certainly. 164 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:19.320 And I have something out on my blog talk Frank, 165 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:24.639 as well as the Nyak News and Views published about 166 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:32.320 this whole situation, and it's just so unfortunate that, you know, 167 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.879 the recent mid air collision with the president, instead of 168 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:42.279 bringing people together through healing and compassion, suggests that this 169 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:46.919 was caused by dei, in other words, incompetent people who 170 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:49.799 are only there because they were given a break to 171 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:54.480 get there. It's insulting to me. It must be abhorrent 172 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.919 to somebody like you whose family has given so much 173 00:09:58.039 --> 00:09:59.159 to this country. 174 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:04.279 What is it think about just that point, just for 175 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.159 a moment, we had the coldest month of the year 176 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.039 and the shortest month of the year. African American History 177 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:14.799 Months was started in nineteen twenty six as African American Week, 178 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:20.440 okay a week, and we fought from nineteen twenty sixteen 179 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:25.240 thirty two to get that week. Now, all these years later, 180 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:32.159 just the thought of eliminating it, just the thought is insane. Yeah, 181 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:36.080 it's totally insane. I mean, I February for the last 182 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.080 ten years, Frank has first of all. African American History 183 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.759 Month in general has gone through its own incarnations. Okay. 184 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:47.120 I taught in the schools here for a while, and 185 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:49.519 it used to most of the teenagers used to dread 186 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:55.000 it because what we saw was Okay, they suffered, they overcame, 187 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:58.720 they suffered again, Martin Luther King, and it was over, okay, 188 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:01.840 But they didn't talk about the struggles to fight the strikes, 189 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:06.559 the history of African Americans, the history. Okay, you know 190 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:10.559 the penagen you know the first heart surgeon, you know 191 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.919 the person, the people who built the White House and 192 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:19.000 Washington d C. Okay, they started Black universities Hbasus, which 193 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.440 I'm a graduate of. Those are the stories that the 194 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.559 kids did not get, which led me to writing the 195 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.960 stories that I actually write on African American lessons on history, 196 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:36.039 historical events and figures, because these are stories that people 197 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.080 did not know about. Their first black All Black Theater 198 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:43.480 company was created in Manhattan in eighteen twenty one. Never 199 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:47.759 heard of it. My daughter gave me an ancestry kit 200 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.600 eight years ago for my sixtieth birthday. I had never 201 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:56.120 considered looking up even past my father, which is what 202 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:59.360 led me to finding out about having family members that 203 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.759 fought and said they weren't allowed to carry a gun 204 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:05.879 when my father fought in Korea. When he fought in Korea, 205 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.639 they weren't first sending African Americans because they weren't allowed 206 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:12.919 to carry guns. This is in Korea, in the fifties 207 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.720 and then they allowed it to happen because they started 208 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.000 to run out of white bodies to put in the 209 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.200 front line. Okay, so then people ask me how it 210 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:27.000 feels to actually consider getting it a Black History Month. Again, 211 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:30.200 I say redundantly, the coldest and the shortest month of 212 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:33.840 the year, just to even think about it. TI, I 213 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:38.080 go both ways. And with that, you know, what does 214 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.360 that mean? We want? America has been trying to level 215 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:48.159 the playing field for since the reconstruction. They just can't 216 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:51.799 figure out why and how. Okay, forty acres in the 217 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.759 mule never got it. Social Security, you know, there was 218 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:59.320 a I'm going to talk to you to death answer, right, 219 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:00.360 but no. 220 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:04.600 It is Sam, I and my audience. I'm quiet, which 221 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.960 means I'm listening intently. I believe they are too. 222 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:11.639 Please continue, Sam, Please see this the Okay, from an 223 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:17.840 African American perspective, there was a quota in Mississippi. They 224 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:22.679 had no black firefighters in a town that was seventy 225 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:28.399 eight percent black Southern Mississippi. Wow, So they decided, okay, 226 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:31.879 we want to get more blacks. And this is in 227 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.480 the eighties. This is not this is not ancient history. 228 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.799 We want to try to get more blacks as firemen. 229 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:41.240 So they had a lot of black African Americans. I'm 230 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:43.600 going to use black throughout to come in and take 231 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:49.000 the tests so they can level the playing field. And 232 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.919 what they did, they leveled the playing field. Years later 233 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:54.440 there were many more African Americans. But then two of 234 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:57.799 the brothers that took this test found out that they 235 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.840 lowered the standards on the test to feel this quote. Okay, 236 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.759 so DU's one thing, but wouldn't you want to take 237 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:09.759 the same tests as these other guys the other fireman? 238 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:13.320 Absolutely in fairness, absolutely an excellent point to make. 239 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.759 So what did they say by lowering? And they're saying 240 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:19.759 already that you're not good enough, smart enough, strong enough, 241 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.360 which they've been saying since, you know, forever, since Bear 242 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:26.960 Bryant decided to get some black men on his team. 243 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:30.960 You know, that was what we were good for, lifting, running, jumping, 244 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.399 Jackie Robinson, the works. But you're just not smart enough. 245 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.120 We couldn't even be quarterbacks on the football field. It's 246 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.000 just not just not smart enough. How many black coaches 247 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:43.840 were there in basketball? None for many years until recently, 248 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:48.120 you know, in the sixties, Bill Russell's like I'm gonna do. 249 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.639 I'm gonna coach because I'm the better player. Okay, but 250 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.519 these are the things that that DEI had that comes 251 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:58.639 around to make it such an insult to say that 252 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.879 you got and it's still saying d I itself is 253 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:07.159 saying you're not good enough, you know, to actually be here. 254 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.519 Of course, most people see it as leveling the playing field, 255 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.600 but how do you do that again? One hundred and 256 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.200 how many years eighteen sixty five, two hundred years or so, 257 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.279 trying to level the playing field, and this guy wants 258 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:25.039 to say, yeah, no, let's stop that. 259 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:29.519 Okay, Well, because you know, DEI does have a function, 260 00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:32.480 I think, and it's a deep issue and one I'm 261 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:35.000 sure we could debate for more than the hour that 262 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.840 we have for this program. But certainly, and we mentioned 263 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.080 the term without making it sound try of leveling the 264 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.559 playing field because the field is not level. For example, 265 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:52.279 education within poorer communities does not equal the education in 266 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:56.840 the more wealthy communities. And let's attach the colors associated 267 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:01.440 with that, the black communities versus the white community. So DEI, 268 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.679 in an effort to say, well, look, we have to 269 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.039 skew it. It's like in the old days, we remember 270 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.840 when teachers used to mark on a curve. That's something 271 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:13.039 that's kind of disappeared a little bit. But yet it 272 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:18.320 had a function to bring everyone together, okay, along and 273 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.600 along the same path. So DEI at least had a 274 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:25.039 function to at least acknowledge say, well, yeah, the white 275 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.799 kid does have an advantage because he did go to 276 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:32.120 a better school, and that can be proven. You're a Rocklander. 277 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.919 And Joe Allen made a film of it. Two schools 278 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.519 in Hillburn about black kids and white kids, and the 279 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.639 black kids include Native American kids and white kids went 280 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.639 to two completely different schools and so far as even 281 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:50.960 one school had indoor plumbing in a gymnasium where the others, 282 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:53.480 you know, that was the white school. The black school 283 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.519 had an outhouse, et cetera. So which one is easier 284 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:58.960 to learn in where you learn better? 285 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:01.799 And it's still it's still like that. 286 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:04.599 So how do we And again maybe this is a 287 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:07.839 rhetorical question, Samuel, but that's why he invited you, because 288 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.160 you and I can have these kind of discussions. Where 289 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:13.680 where do where do we bring it to a point 290 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:19.480 where we say that it is enough, it's it must 291 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:22.880 be solely merit and can you hear that you and 292 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.920 everybody wants to be known that they accomplish things by 293 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.240 their own merit. But when do we reach that? 294 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.039 How? I mean, how do we reach The first thing? 295 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.119 First is you could you could change the laws frame. Yeah, 296 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.119 the changing logs is easy, it's writing on paper. But 297 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:46.480 you cannot change the way people think. That takes lifetimes. 298 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:49.839 We're still trying to figure out the Jesus thing, you know, 299 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:54.000 I mean, so, I mean, you know, how do you 300 00:17:54.440 --> 00:18:00.039 the playing field? It may sound pessimistic, but again, and 301 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.680 since slavery, I mean, since reconstruction, since they said you 302 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.480 are free, they've been trying to level the playing field 303 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:12.359 in America. Okay, in Europe, a lot of you know, 304 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:18.480 James Baldwin and Josephine Baker and Richard Wright, Langston's Hughes, 305 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:21.440 they went to Paris for that very reason, because the 306 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.519 playing they they're seen as a human being. Here we're 307 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.519 still seeing as a subculture, a sub human being. Not 308 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.079 just culturally, but you have a lot of people that 309 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:36.279 literally think are president being one that you just are inferior. 310 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.759 You just don't quite have it. Okay, you dump that 311 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.039 on a people for four hundred years, they start to 312 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:49.000 believe that I would go into schools as a special 313 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.119 education teacher and have kids that were put in special 314 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.440 ed before they took a test to be put in 315 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:59.359 special ed because they come in behind the eight ball. Okay, 316 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:02.200 they come in and you're not smart enough. So you're 317 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:05.039 sitting in the classroom already knowing that you're not smart 318 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.039 enough than the white guy next to you with red 319 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:10.680 hair and blue eyes. You already know that intuitively, so 320 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.440 you're gonna try it just a little less, and you're 321 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.720 going to be very angry with the teacher, just like 322 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.559 everyone's angry with the government for that same reason. The 323 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:21.039 government is our school teacher, is our math teacher, our 324 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.240 social studies teacher, okay. And he's talking. And when they 325 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.680 start talking about taking away the history out of the 326 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.839 history books, it was never there. Okay. So you can't 327 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:36.799 talk about race. Okay, you can not talk about race 328 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.839 in America as long as you got black and white. 329 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.839 And this is a black man talking, you know. But 330 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:48.440 I'm one amongst many to have this feeling of just 331 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:53.279 still not being seen. The first thing in the world 332 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.519 for any person is to not feel seen, especially in 333 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.319 America with the blood that has been shed on this country. 334 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:04.559 Martin Luther King, you know, he fought for what we 335 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.480 got in the sixties, but then it got turned around. 336 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.079 It was worse after George Floyd than it was in 337 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:16.240 nineteen sixty nine. Man, worse after George Floyd. Well, we 338 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:20.920 watched the man for what nine minutes with his head 339 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:24.720 on the cement, with the guys you know, foot in 340 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:28.400 this roAP, screaming for his mom. It took things like 341 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:30.680 that to shake America and go, wow, that's wrong. But 342 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.519 then what do you do about it? 343 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.160 It happened again, whether recently in New York State with 344 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.200 the prison guards. We saw, I think everyone saw, and 345 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.599 everyone was revolted by that horrible beating. But yet it 346 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:42.759 happened again. 347 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:46.759 And it will. I still to this day in Rockland County, 348 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.359 to this day get stopped at least twice a year 349 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:54.000 for DWB in Rockland County. The street I live on, 350 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.279 I get stopped eight blocks from the street I live 351 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.680 on to find out. First they say, of course, you're 352 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:04.440 not wearing your seatbelt, which is no way I'm knowing, 353 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.799 But they just s he's just don't seem right around here. 354 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.279 And that's back to my philosophy. Of you can change 355 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:14.200 the laws, which can't change the way people think. And 356 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.400 that's not a pessimistic view, that's just my realism of it. Okay, 357 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.759 one of the ways. And I think it's a perfect segue. 358 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.400 And I wanted to talk to you about mentorship because 359 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:27.519 I know that's an important element. But first let's go 360 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:33.480 back who in your life has provided mentorship and why 361 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.839 is it important and who can we can we look 362 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.359 to for that, particularly again in the minority community, as 363 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.079 you hear it over and over again, we need more 364 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.279 powerful role models, We need mentors. So talk a little 365 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.640 bit about who some of yours were, are, why and 366 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.319 what importance that role plays in every community. 367 00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:00.920 Right. My mentor when that is coming up, was a 368 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:07.400 black man from Richmond, Virginia named Arthur Adams. Reason being 369 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:14.240 because Arthur ash was a two man. Okay, of course 370 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:17.359 you have your Jackie Robinson's and so on and so forth, 371 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:21.000 but he was a person I looked up to. My mentor, 372 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.240 of course was my father, every that's the obvious, but 373 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:29.000 the person that I looked up to wanted to inspire 374 00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:31.920 to be, not because I want to play tennis, but 375 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:36.519 the way he carried himself. Do we dress. You know, 376 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:42.640 he walked with a certain a certain bit of class 377 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.079 that I wanted to capture. That's who I wanted to be. 378 00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:50.200 So when I went into in particular theater, but teaching 379 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.960 in general, the black man, I wanted them to see 380 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.599 a black man who was very sure of himself of 381 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.960 who he is. And then if you get self assurance, 382 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.519 this is who I am, and I'm proud of that. 383 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.039 And there's no outside forces that can say, hey, he's 384 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:10.920 not good enough. If he knows who he is, he 385 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.200 doesn't have to ask those questions of anyone, including himself. 386 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:17.359 Arthur asked, gave me that. I only met him once 387 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.680 and never talked to him. I just shook his hand 388 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:23.799 because he came to our school, you know. But I 389 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.200 in my head it was always I want to be 390 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.519 like that, not Muhammad ar Lee. Are the role models 391 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:32.119 for the last thirty five years, or actually I'm going 392 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.119 to go further back forty years for African Americans have 393 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:40.160 been our athletes and our rappers, not the musicians. Of course, 394 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.200 I want to be Stevie Wonder and as I pointed 395 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.960 out earlier, I'm going to be Jimmy Hendrix. But I 396 00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:50.759 do remember in junior high school, a social study teacher 397 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:52.839 telling me that I should work on my jump shot 398 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.720 because he felt that was probably the only opportunity that 399 00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.880 I might have, you know, and I had been right 400 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.440 in the journal, my journals since I was nine years old. 401 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.680