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<v Speaker 1>And I am very pleased to have with me filmmaker

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Pack. He's the producer and director of a new

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<v Speaker 1>short film it's about twenty three ish minutes long with

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<v Speaker 1>the Wall Street Journal entitled Get the Jew the Crown

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<v Speaker 1>Heights Riot. And I was telling Michael Pack off the

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<v Speaker 1>air that as I was watching his documentary this morning,

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<v Speaker 1>actually I was sort of became really aware of how

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<v Speaker 1>little I knew about the Crown Heights Riot. And I

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<v Speaker 1>was a young teen when it happened, and we didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have the twenty four hour news cycle. But it was

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<v Speaker 1>almost a little embarrassed because it's this is a really

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<v Speaker 1>serious thing that happened, and yet it seems to have

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<v Speaker 1>just been I don't want to say forgotten, but maybe

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<v Speaker 1>shoved under the rug a little bit. Michael Pack, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, thank you for having me on.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, tell my audience what this movie is about.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it is about what is in fact, the worst

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<v Speaker 3>anti semitic ride in American history, which happened in Crown

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<v Speaker 3>Heights in nineteen ninety one. And we did make the

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<v Speaker 3>movie because I think many people have forgotten it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the first in a series.

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<v Speaker 3>Of documentaries that my company is doing with the Wall

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<v Speaker 3>Street Journal Opinion section, and the purpose of them is

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<v Speaker 3>to tell stories that have been neglected, forgotten, or misreported

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<v Speaker 3>at the time and that are newly relevant. And this

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<v Speaker 3>one certainly fits that bill, but we planned to have

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<v Speaker 3>several out every year, year after year. It so parallels

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<v Speaker 3>what other leftis center periodical has been doing, like the

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<v Speaker 3>New York Times op docs or The Atlantic or The

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<v Speaker 3>New Yorker. So this one tells the story of this

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<v Speaker 3>horrible anti Semitic riot, and it began on a hot

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<v Speaker 3>August day in nineteen ninety one when in the Crown

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<v Speaker 3>Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn, which was a neighborhood which had

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<v Speaker 3>once been all Jewish, many of the Jews left for

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<v Speaker 3>the suburbs, and now by nineteen ninety one it had

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<v Speaker 3>been only one small sect of Hasidic Jews, Bob Lubovich, remained.

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<v Speaker 2>They were surrounded.

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<v Speaker 3>By poor black people who and resentments that were on

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<v Speaker 3>the rise, and whipped up by a certain.

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<v Speaker 2>Amount of black nationalism that was in the air.

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<v Speaker 3>Lewis Vara Khunt and others talking about Jews being responsible

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<v Speaker 3>for the slave trade, Jews being almost another species and

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<v Speaker 3>into that mix came a horrible event. On that August,

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<v Speaker 3>the head rabbi of this group, Rabbi Schneerson, was coming

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<v Speaker 3>back from a visit to the cemetery where his dead

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<v Speaker 3>wife was buried, and he had a motorcade. He had

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<v Speaker 3>a police escort in that car. It was a three

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<v Speaker 3>car motorcade, and the police car first went through it.

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<v Speaker 3>His car went through, and his assistants car ran either

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<v Speaker 3>a yellow or red light and tragically hit another car,

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<v Speaker 3>careened off that car and hit two young black children

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<v Speaker 3>playing in the street, and sadly, tragically one of them died.

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<v Speaker 3>But it was clearly an accident, right you don't hit

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<v Speaker 3>a car on purpose to hit another, to hit a kid.

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<v Speaker 3>But it was right away perceived as not an accident.

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<v Speaker 3>The Jews get away with everything, and a instigator, Charles Price,

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<v Speaker 3>whipped up the crowd and they went brought in for

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<v Speaker 3>the neighborhood. And three hours later they found another Hasidic man,

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<v Speaker 3>Yankle Rosenbaum, and they said there's one, there's the Jew,

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<v Speaker 3>get the Jew, hence our title, and they beat them

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<v Speaker 3>and stabbed them and he.

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<v Speaker 2>Died in the hospital.

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<v Speaker 3>And then then the next day of the riot riot

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<v Speaker 3>went on from there and people came from.

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<v Speaker 4>Outside, like Al Sharpen. The crowds was whipped up.

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<v Speaker 3>And the real tragedy, I think is that the media

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<v Speaker 3>misreported it and then the mayor and the police chief

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<v Speaker 3>let it go on for three days before they ended it.

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<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't until they themselves were attacked and they

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<v Speaker 3>turned to their own deputy police chief, Ray Kelly, finally.

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<v Speaker 4>Told them to end it, which he could do in

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<v Speaker 4>three hours.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was the part that was the most surprising

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<v Speaker 1>to me. And I knew so little about this that

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<v Speaker 1>Mayor Dinkins. David Dinkins was the mayor at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>He really just kind of took a hands off approach

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<v Speaker 1>to that is. Has anybody ever asked the mayor after

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<v Speaker 1>he left office if he had any regrets or if

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<v Speaker 1>there was something he would have done. Has he ever reflected,

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<v Speaker 1>to your knowledge in public about his inaction during that time.

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<v Speaker 3>He's been asked about it. I mean he's now deceased,

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<v Speaker 3>of course.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean.

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<v Speaker 3>Our film is in addition to being based on the

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<v Speaker 3>reporting of Eli Kaufman, a Wall Street Journal opinion reporter,

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<v Speaker 3>it's also based on the Giugenti report, which Mayor Cuomo

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<v Speaker 3>had done and going to be thousands of people, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's sort of the definitive look at the riots. And

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<v Speaker 3>they talked to Mary Dinkins and Mayor Dinkins there was

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<v Speaker 3>a rumor the police at the on site felt they

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<v Speaker 3>had They were told, you know, let them vet, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>don't take any action, and the police largely stood around

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<v Speaker 3>for three days. Mary Dinkins has always denied saying that,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's not clear that he did.

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<v Speaker 4>But what he didn't do was tell him the opposite.

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<v Speaker 4>He might not have said let them VT.

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<v Speaker 3>He probably didn't, but he didn't take or direct as

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<v Speaker 3>police chief to take aggressive action for three days, which

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<v Speaker 3>I think is in a way more or less the

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<v Speaker 3>same thing. I mean, So I don't know whether he

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<v Speaker 3>or I'm not sure, you know, I hope he did.

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<v Speaker 1>The notion of letting people vent, we just did this

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<v Speaker 1>again in the Summer of Love of twenty twenty, right,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like, just let people vent, let them it

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<v Speaker 1>will make them feel better, and in the meantime we

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<v Speaker 1>do forty billion dollars worth of damage. Right, So that

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<v Speaker 1>whole let them vent thing only seems to go one way.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're protesting for the right side, and by right,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm putting that in air quotes, then you're just venting.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you're protesting for the other side, then you're

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<v Speaker 1>a criminal who needs to go to prison.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's right, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that the George Floyd riots for an example

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<v Speaker 4>of that.

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<v Speaker 2>The recent.

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<v Speaker 3>Brohamas demonstrations and college campuses are like that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, they terrorized Youish students. They make it for

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<v Speaker 3>them feel unsafe, and the media reports it pretty favorably.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the heads of these colleges were not themselves

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<v Speaker 3>and anti Semitic, just like David Dingins wasn't. They can't

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<v Speaker 3>stand up to these students. They wait, they prevaricate, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>as we heard when they testified before Congress, and then

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<v Speaker 3>maybe finally in the end they act. But you know,

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<v Speaker 3>there's an unwillingness to stand up to violent or threatening

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<v Speaker 3>people on the progressive side. It's unthinkable that these college

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<v Speaker 3>presidents would have not responded differently with anti black or

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<v Speaker 3>anti gay's talks on their college campuses, and rightly, but

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<v Speaker 3>this one, this one they're afraid to take on. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's a terrible, terrible pattern, and I hope it doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>repeat itself, and that's one of the reasons to do

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<v Speaker 3>the films that people recognize the pattern and kind of

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<v Speaker 3>and can make their elected officials break from it the

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<v Speaker 3>next time it happens.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about the role of Al Sharpton in this.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we interviewed Al Sharpton, and one of my main

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<v Speaker 3>precepts as of filmmakers to be fair to everybody who

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<v Speaker 3>interviews me. I'm not very fond of interviews that in

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<v Speaker 3>filmmakers that make their interviewees look bad. So we want

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<v Speaker 3>to give out Sharp a chance to make his case,

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<v Speaker 3>which I think we do in the film, but we

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<v Speaker 3>have other people who make the opposite case, and we

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<v Speaker 3>leave it to your viewers to decide. And the purpose

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<v Speaker 3>of these films is to tell these stories in a

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<v Speaker 3>straightforward manner with enough facts for viewers to decide you're

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<v Speaker 3>talking to this, So I may well express my own opinions,

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<v Speaker 3>but we wanted to leave it to viewers to decide.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think Al Sharpton makes a good puts the

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<v Speaker 3>best face he care on it. But in fact he

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<v Speaker 3>came in and surely others came in and whipped up

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<v Speaker 3>the crowd with a lot of the anti Semitism current

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<v Speaker 3>at the time, which was a lot of this black

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<v Speaker 3>nationalism stuff. You know, Jews were responsied for the slave trade,

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<v Speaker 3>Jews are you know, bankers are controlling things in the world,

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<v Speaker 3>and Jews are responsible for aparthot in South Africa, and

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<v Speaker 3>on and on and on, as we say sometimes, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the film ends with a more recent stabbing of a

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<v Speaker 3>Jew in Crown Heights, shockingly enough, where this time stabbed

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<v Speaker 3>by a man saying free Palestine.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you want to die?

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<v Speaker 3>So what had been in Crown Heights Hyle Hitler and

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<v Speaker 3>Hitler didn't finish the job is now free Palestine or

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<v Speaker 3>from the revert to the sea. If it's accompanied by

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<v Speaker 3>violence and stabbing, it's of course okay to criticize the

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<v Speaker 3>state of Israel, but it it often veers into obvious

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<v Speaker 3>overt anti Semitism, and that has to be stopped.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought that that was a very appropriate, full circle

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<v Speaker 1>kind of punctuation mark for the end of the film,

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<v Speaker 1>an unfortunate one.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>I love those movies where there's all the happy endings

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<v Speaker 1>and everyone you know, learns from their mistakes and then

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<v Speaker 1>they all have dinner together and maybe sing Kumbai Yah.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's not real life, like this is a documentary,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to talk about documentaries just as a

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<v Speaker 1>group right now. Documentaries this something I always try to

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<v Speaker 1>let people know. They all have a point of view.

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<v Speaker 1>Right when you, as a documentary filmmaker, start tell me

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<v Speaker 1>about the starting proposition for this particular film. What was

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<v Speaker 1>it you were trying to do and how were you

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<v Speaker 1>trying to do it.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it is true that all documentary filmmakers have

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<v Speaker 3>a point of view, but I think the most the

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<v Speaker 3>clearest way they expressed their point of view is the

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<v Speaker 3>stories they choose to tell. We did a documentary in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty about the life of Clarence Thomas called Credit

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<v Speaker 3>Equal Clarence Thomas in his own words.

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<v Speaker 2>It was on PBS, Still Last Dreaming, on Amazon elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 3>We chose to tell his story, and many many filmmakers

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<v Speaker 3>had chosen to tell the Ruth Bader Ginsburg story. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's fine to have both stories out there.

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<v Speaker 3>But if you only have left of center filmmakers, they

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<v Speaker 3>will only tell one kind of story. So yes, we

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<v Speaker 3>have our perspective, and I actually think it's important to

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<v Speaker 3>have documentary producers with a variety of perspectives. Like many

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<v Speaker 3>parts of the media, the documentary role is dominated by

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<v Speaker 3>the progressive left, and one of the reasons we're working

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<v Speaker 3>with the Walls General Opinion section is to get these

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<v Speaker 3>stories that have been neglected by that part of the

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<v Speaker 3>media out there. And as I think I mentioned to

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<v Speaker 3>you before we began, we also have an incubator program

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<v Speaker 3>to train young or up and coming and all have

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<v Speaker 3>to be young, right of center or at least non

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<v Speaker 3>woke filmmakers, and because they're just not enough of them.

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<v Speaker 3>There are a huge number of talented progressive filmmakers telling

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<v Speaker 3>their stories their way, which I think is their right

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<v Speaker 3>and I salute them when they do it well, but

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<v Speaker 3>we need more on airsides. We have started this incubator

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<v Speaker 3>program and any one of your listeners can go to

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<v Speaker 3>our website and click apply. We're open to the next class.

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<v Speaker 3>The first class of four has just finished their first

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<v Speaker 3>war films, so.

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<v Speaker 4>It's the beginning of a process.

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<v Speaker 3>It needs to be way bigger, but I think it's

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<v Speaker 3>a start, and we need to get our stories out

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<v Speaker 3>there from the point of.

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<v Speaker 2>View that we have.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think whatever your point of view going in

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<v Speaker 3>and everyone you are right, Mandy has a point of view.

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<v Speaker 3>Good filmmakers still try to have multiple points of view

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<v Speaker 3>in their film and not treat their interviewees, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>not make the most stupid, not suppress their views. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>they do, sometimes they don't. It's very hard for listeners

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<v Speaker 3>and viewers to tell. I mean, that's why we tried

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<v Speaker 3>to be fair to Al Sharpton, whose point of view

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<v Speaker 3>was not ours.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you were more than fair to Al Sharpton.

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<v Speaker 1>After watching I was like, dang man, I just like

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<v Speaker 1>I said, going back to my happy endings in my

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<v Speaker 1>fairy tale ends, and I would love to live in

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<v Speaker 1>a world where someone would be able to say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I was wrong. I really shouldn't have done that. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>in hindsight, in retrospect, I have deep regret over that,

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<v Speaker 1>But we don't really either allow it, I guess in

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<v Speaker 1>our public figures, or they are too afraid of the

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<v Speaker 1>repercussions to actually do that. I wanted him to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted some variation instead of people said there were this,

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<v Speaker 1>People said there was this, but oh no, that wasn't mine.

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<v Speaker 4>I was in.

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't say it was a lot of I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>going to say I was not impressed with the testimony,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that you treated him very fairly, perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>more fairly than I would have treated him in a

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<v Speaker 1>similar circumstance. What is coming up, because you're you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to do a whole series of these for the Wall

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<v Speaker 1>Street Wall Street Journal Opinion page.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, that's right.

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<v Speaker 3>We hope to do several, you know, four or five

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<v Speaker 3>every year, year after year. The next one, which is

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<v Speaker 3>coming out either at the end of November the beginning

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<v Speaker 3>of December, is called The Prime Minister Versus the Blob,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's about the shortest lived prime minister in British history.

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<v Speaker 2>This trust was prime minister.

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<v Speaker 3>When the Queen died, and she feels she was done

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<v Speaker 3>in by their version of the ministrative state or the swamp,

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<v Speaker 3>which they call the Blob. She feels she just had

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<v Speaker 3>the politically incorrect views. She was sort of a Thatch right,

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<v Speaker 3>and they were sort of Keynesian at least an economic policy,

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<v Speaker 3>and she was pro fracking and energy and not net zero,

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<v Speaker 3>and so she feels she was done in.

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<v Speaker 4>So we have her maker case.

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<v Speaker 3>And other people who don't agree with her, as as

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<v Speaker 3>is our pattern here, make their case and viewers can decide.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think Mandy it's particularly instructive to look at

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<v Speaker 3>this kind of issue from a different perspective, from the

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<v Speaker 3>British perspective. We're used to thinking about our fights with

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<v Speaker 3>the administrative state here and thinking of it as unique,

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<v Speaker 3>But to see it in the British context, I think

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<v Speaker 3>cass light on our own dilemma.

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<v Speaker 1>The big question is will the documentary be longer than

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<v Speaker 1>her actual tenure as Prime Minister, because that's a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>low bar to set there, Michael, that is that is

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating to me because I when that when all that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like it was it happened with such whipsawce

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<v Speaker 1>speed that I knew there was more to the story.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm very interested to see her view on what

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<v Speaker 1>actually happened. And I highly recommend I put a link

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<v Speaker 1>this this uh, this documentary Get the Jew the Crown

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<v Speaker 1>Heights Riot is available now for free, and I put

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<v Speaker 1>a link on my block where you can just click through.

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<v Speaker 1>It's twenty three minutes long, it's not even not even

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<v Speaker 1>a whole sitcom episode, and it is so worth your time,

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<v Speaker 1>especially if you, like me, were not paying attention as

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<v Speaker 1>closely as you should have at that point and didn't

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<v Speaker 1>really know much of the story.

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<v Speaker 4>Michael.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you doing what you're doing, and I appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>you bringing the perspective from my side of the aisle

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<v Speaker 1>to the screen. And you're right, we need to do

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<v Speaker 1>much much more of this. So I hope young filmmakers

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<v Speaker 1>continue to reach out about the Incubator and we definitely

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<v Speaker 1>need to talk before the next one comes out.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 3>Man.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, that's Michael Pack with Palladium Pictures and his

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<v Speaker 1>new documentary on the Crown Heights. Right, very very very good,

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<v Speaker 1>very good, So please watch that and again you can

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<v Speaker 1>link to it on the blog, and I also put

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<v Speaker 1>a link to Palladium Pictures. If you know someone who

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<v Speaker 1>would like to make a documentary from a right leading perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>have them apply for one of these grants. That is

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<v Speaker 1>probably the best way to do that. I shared all

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<v Speaker 1>of that on today's blog. Al Sharpton's history of stoking

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<v Speaker 1>anti Semitism is the headline on that one.