WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:31.160 Welcome back to part two of our coverage about the 2 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.359 disappearance and unexplained death of Bobby Bisop. But of course 3 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:38.600 there is no statute of limitations on murder, so it 4 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:40.840 just seems weird that he's willing to confess all this 5 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:44.000 horrible stuff, but then is getting very defensive when talking 6 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:46.719 about Bobby and saying I didn't do anything to him. 7 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:49.439 So you're wondering, hm, is he paranoid that he's going 8 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:51.920 to be prosecuted for murder or something like that, and 9 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:54.799 that's why he's making up this story completely at a 10 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:55.359 left field. 11 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.240 You see this with to parallel this with celebrities all 12 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:01.960 the time, where they give partial disclosure, like say when 13 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:07.040 they're talking about plastic surgery procedures, they'll say, like one 14 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.480 of the truthful plastic plastic surgery procedures they've had done, 15 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:13.920 but leave out four other ones. In disclosing something that 16 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.760 is truthful, they think, Okay, well this is part of 17 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:21.959 the truth. So in being transparent about this, it will 18 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.959 get people off my back and they'll believe what I'm 19 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.319 saying is genuine. And I think that's a little bit 20 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.680 of what we're seeing here. It's like, see, I'm truthful. 21 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.840 I'm an honest person. I'm telling you these horrible things 22 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:35.439 that I've done. Why else would I do that except 23 00:01:35.480 --> 00:01:39.000 for that I'm now transparent and I feel contrite about this. 24 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:43.680 But in actuality, it's like I think he's giving that 25 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:47.680 information because sure, on some level he might feel bad, 26 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.280 But I also think that it is a type of 27 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:55.079 deflection where it's like, look over here, and I'll confess this, 28 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:57.760 but like it's a bridge too far when we talk 29 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.959 about murder, because he could truly be held accountable for that, 30 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:04.079 and if he really felt that bad and was really contrite, 31 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.640 I would think that he would be fine with whatever 32 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:07.920 punishment came his way. 33 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:12.319 Yeah, it just is pretty ironic because I think he 34 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:14.680 was probably under the mistaken impression that maybe there was 35 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:18.639 a new investigation into Bobby's death, but Kevin vonn wasn't 36 00:02:18.680 --> 00:02:20.800 there for that. He was just looking into child sex 37 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:23.960 abuse allegations, and he just pretty much mentioned Bobby as 38 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.120 like a throwaway line because he knew that Hugh would 39 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.759 have been present to find his remains. I'm willing to 40 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:32.319 think that if Hughitt had not said those very suspicious words, 41 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.520 then nobody would have looked any further into Bobby's death, 42 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.360 and nobody would have attempted a new investigation, but because 43 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.240 he revealed too much information and looked like he was 44 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:46.199 over confiscating this case when in a completely different direction. So, 45 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:49.360 of course, after hearing those weird remarks, Kevin Bond decided 46 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.400 to take a fresh look at Bobby's case. But most 47 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:56.039 of the original documentation was gone, including the police files 48 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.080 and the autopsy report, so all that he could find 49 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:01.280 was a single report which had been written by the 50 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:06.680 Rocky Mountain National Park Superintendent about the discovery of Bobby's remains. 51 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:10.319 But still Bond noticed a very weird discrepancy in the 52 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:13.680 report because even though he would had claimed that he 53 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.960 found bobby scapula and a scrap of clothing on July 54 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:19.759 the third, nineteen fifty one, and then brought it back 55 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.360 to the camp's director, Reverend Richard Heaster, according to this 56 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:27.400 report from the Rocky Mountain National Park Superintendent, a Reverend 57 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:31.719 Heaster did not actually report these findings until Monday, July third, 58 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:34.280 three days after the fact, and that's when they started 59 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.080 the search efforts. And they're thinking, okay, like, why would 60 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.759 you wait three whole days to talk about to report 61 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:42.840 the discovery of a bone or clothing, especially if you 62 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:45.439 believe that it's connected to a child who went missing 63 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:48.719 from your camp one year earlier. So this makes alarm 64 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:51.159 bells GoF on my head, saying, are they fabricating a 65 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:53.639 cover story here? Like are they maybe thinking we're going 66 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:56.680 to sprinkle some remains in this area for the searchers 67 00:03:56.719 --> 00:03:59.479 to find, and then when they find them, they'll just 68 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:02.520 fay say that Bobby's dad closed the investigation and no 69 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.439 one will be suspicious of us. But of course nobody 70 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.800 found this suspicious back in nineteen fifty nine because everyone's thinking, oh, 71 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:11.000 it's a priest who runs a summer camp for kids. 72 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.000 There's no way he would do anything nefarious. But of 73 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.399 course all these years have passed and they know about 74 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.399 cover ups by the Catholic Church. So Kevin Bond is 75 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.399 now looking at this report with a major suspicion. 76 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:26.000 Yeah, that is super suspicious, Like why would you hold 77 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:31.000 back that information? I guess there's multiple options. Somebody might 78 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:33.759 have had possession of the remains and thought, okay, we 79 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:37.759 better plant some remains because we want investigators to think 80 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.040 that they've been recovered. Then everybody stops looking and then 81 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:44.800 we're left to do what we're gonna do and not 82 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:48.920 have like law enforcement and the family constantly looking for Bobby, 83 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.120 or they did genuinely come upon the remains because somebody 84 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:56.160 was like, Okay, well this is where they are. I 85 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.160 honestly feel as though they were closing ranks during those 86 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.000 few days though, because there had to even talks about 87 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:03.680 how are we going to play this, how are we 88 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.199 going to put this out there, how will this be perceived, 89 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:08.519 and what kind of pr can we do to get 90 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.920 behind this because at the time people weren't looking and 91 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.720 assuming that something bad would have happened to him. But 92 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:18.279 when you're the ones who are doing bad things, I 93 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:20.439 think it's pretty easy to assume that all eyes are 94 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:21.279 going to be looking at you. 95 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:24.279 Yeah, pretty much. And I think that if this case 96 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:26.600 had happened today and a boy had gone missing under 97 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:29.839 similar circumstances, people would look at these details with a 98 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:33.000 lot more suspicion. By nineteen fifty nine was just a 99 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:36.319 more innocent time. And if this wasn't a strategy, it 100 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.839 technically did work because no one found anything weird about 101 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:43.560 their discovery of Bobby's remains for over sixty years, So 102 00:05:43.639 --> 00:05:45.800 you can understand why they might have been compelled to 103 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.920 do this, so obviously, Kevin Vaughn wanted to interview Reverend 104 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.759 Richard Heister, but he had passed away sometime during the 105 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:56.480 nineteen nineties. But he was able to track down his nephew, 106 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:59.120 who was also named Richard, and he had been eleven 107 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:02.079 years old at the time and also attending Camp Saint 108 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:05.199 Malo at the time Bobby went missing. And to make 109 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.240 things even more weird, Richard recalled an incident which took 110 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:11.079 place on the day Bobby went missing, where he was 111 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:13.560 in a gathering hall with a group of other campers 112 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:16.279 when a boy suddenly pushed Richard out of the way 113 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:19.279 and ran past him, and Richard said that he recalled 114 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:21.720 the boy seemed very upset and was saying a bunch 115 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:25.600 of unintelligible stuff before he headed outside. And because we 116 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:28.959 know that Bobby was hearing impaired and had difficulties speaking, 117 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:32.160 Richard believed that the boy might have been him and 118 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.720 that this took place right before he went missing. And 119 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:37.600 of course, since over sixty years had passed, it's possible 120 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:40.680 he wasn't remembering things correctly. But Vaughn was able to 121 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.399 track down a man named Roger Contour, who had been 122 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.639 a subdistrict ranger at Rocky Mountain National Park at the 123 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:49.560 time and was involved in the recovery of Bobby's remains, 124 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.079 and he said that he had been told by other 125 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.399 people from the camp that Bobby seemed extremely upset about 126 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:58.399 something right before he went missing. And this is the 127 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.800 first time anyone ever heard this story, because, like I 128 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:03.920 mentioned earlier, the official story back in nineteen fifty eight 129 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.720 is that Bobby had been fishing by the creek. Everything 130 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.079 looked completely normal, and he was asked to come back 131 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:11.759 to the mess hall for suffer before he suddenly disappeared. 132 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.040 But now we're getting another different story about the circumstances 133 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:16.319 of how he went missing. 134 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.639 And so this opens up the possibility that something could 135 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:23.959 have happened to Bobby, and Bobby trying to get away 136 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:29.519 from his abuser, or whatever happened, he ran into the woods, 137 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.759 got lost, maybe tripped and fell, hit his head and 138 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:36.240 succumbed to the elements. We have that option, or we 139 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:38.839 have the option that somebody could have chased after him 140 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.800 and did something to him and ended his life. 141 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:46.480 Yeah, that is true. Even if Bobby was abused that day, 142 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.240 that doesn't necessarily mean he was murdered, as your other 143 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.839 scenario could also be true, where he was so upset 144 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:54.000 that he decided to run away into the woods and 145 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.839 got lost and then died of exposure, but there would 146 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.279 still be accountability from the camp and the council who 147 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:02.800 were responsible for it. So that's why they wanted to 148 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:06.199 start digging deeper into this. And I know some people 149 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:09.319 could question Richard Heaster's story because he was only eleven 150 00:08:09.399 --> 00:08:11.720 years old at the time, in sixty years had passed. 151 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:14.720 But one thing I find refreshing about Richard is his 152 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:18.639 openness and honesty because he knows this does not paint 153 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:22.319 his uncle in a very promising light, because obviously, if 154 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:24.879 Bobby was being abused at the camp and his uncle 155 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:27.759 helped cover it up, then that looks really bad for him. 156 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:30.319 But Richard has said that even though I admired my uncle, 157 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.559 that this is not the type of man I remembered 158 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:35.200 that if he was involved in something bad, then I 159 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:37.440 only want the truth to come out. So that's why 160 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:40.759 I find his account of Bobby seeing very upset and 161 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:43.159 running away to be credible, that it's something he may 162 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.480 have remembered vividly all these years, but now that all 163 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:49.000 this new information about sexual abuse cover up has come out, 164 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.519 he's now looking at this incident in a totally different light. 165 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:55.240 Yeah, I don't see him having a vested interest in 166 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.799 putting forth like some false narrative that could make his 167 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:01.759 uncle look bad in some way. I think if you're 168 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:04.919 confronting the idea that your uncle could have been involved 169 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:08.240 in the sexual abuse of children, then when you go 170 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:10.240 when you put a story out like that and you 171 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:13.000 say this is what I perceived happened, this boy could 172 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.720 have been Bobby, you know that it could be further 173 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:21.080 damaging the reputation. So I would think that his motivation 174 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:24.039 being that. I'm sure there was pressure from family members, 175 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:27.559 because typically there is in these type of situations. People 176 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:30.720 don't want their names sullied, and so to speak out 177 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:33.759 like that is a really courageous thing to do. And 178 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:36.039 I don't think that he would be getting any reward 179 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:38.679 for speaking out, you know what I mean, Like his 180 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:40.840 family isn't going to be like, good for you, you're 181 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:43.600 looking for the truth. I mean maybe, but I think 182 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.159 there's a strong likelihood that he could feel pressure to 183 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:46.919 just say. 184 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.480 Nothing exactly, Like I can't say this for certain, but 185 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:52.600 I'd say there's probably a good chance that there's some 186 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:55.440 other people in Richard's family who are not happy that 187 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:58.399 he's sharing this story because his uncle was a very 188 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.840 respected man who had a reputation while he was alive, 189 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:04.639 and now all this stuff is coming out decades after 190 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:07.120 the fat which paints him in a very negative light. 191 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:10.039 So it is very courageous that Richard is saying this 192 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.519 knowing that he could potentially alienate some of the other 193 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:15.440 people in his family who he cares about. But even so, 194 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.559 like the more Kevin Vaughan looked into this, the more 195 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.720 it seemed odd that Bobby would have died of exposure 196 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:24.879 on that mountain side where his remains were found, because 197 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:27.360 when he looked closer into it, he realized that from 198 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:29.559 that mountain, Bobby would have had a clear view of 199 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:31.919 Cant Saint Malo in the distance, so if he had 200 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:34.840 gotten lost, he probably would have been able to find 201 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.120 his way back because the mountain was also near Cabin Creek, 202 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:41.600 where Bobby had supposedly been fishing before he disappeared, so 203 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:43.960 he easily could have just followed the creek back to 204 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.440 the camp. So that doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't 205 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:50.080 dive of exposure, like maybe he didn't get lost, but 206 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.080 he was so scared of the counselors that he was 207 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:54.879 hiding from in the mountain, and then that's when he 208 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.879 succumbed to the elements and died. But because of these discrepancies, 209 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:02.279 the National Parks Are his investigative services branch announced that 210 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.679 they were going to open up a new investigation into 211 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.919 Bobby's case over sixty years after the fact. So they 212 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:10.759 created a profile page to the cold case section on 213 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:13.480 their website, and while they didn't have enough evidence to 214 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:16.200 label his death a homicide, they did label his case 215 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:20.039 as a suspicious deaths which is pretty remarkable because how 216 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:22.440 many other cases where people died. Are they going to 217 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.159 reopen a new investigation sixty years after the fact. 218 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:30.360 Yeah, that's pretty wild, and based on everything that we know, 219 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.759 it's so hard to be able to tell exactly what 220 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:36.679 happened here. I think it's clear that some kind of 221 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:41.679 cover up happened, But what isn't clear is if Bobby died, 222 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:44.360 because there's so many things that could happen in that 223 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:46.720 short period of time. Like you said, if he was 224 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.399 afraid of the counselors, if something had happened and he 225 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:51.679 was abused and he thought, well, I'm just going to 226 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.679 stick it out out here, and he got too cold 227 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:57.840 at night, he got dehydrated. You know, we can't go 228 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:00.759 a long time without water or food. Well food, we 229 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.120 can go a long time without, but not water. So 230 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:06.519 he could have become dehydrated and confused. He could have 231 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.480 fallen and like I said earlier, hit his head. He 232 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.360 could have injured his leg like we saw with Chris 233 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:15.960 Kramer's and Leanne Frum right, looks like the most likely 234 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:18.840 scenario there was, not that they were murdered, was that 235 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:21.759 one of them I can't remember which one was injured, 236 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:25.080 and that they both stayed together and both ended up 237 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:26.519 succumbing to the elements. 238 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.279 Yeah, and that's very well. What could have happened to 239 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:31.600 Bobby that even if he knew his way back to 240 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:33.759 the camp, like, he could have still succumbed to the 241 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:36.840 elements just because he didn't want to go back. I remember, 242 00:12:36.879 --> 00:12:39.399 we don't necessarily know that he died of that mountside, 243 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:42.279 because we've been sharing theories that maybe the remains were 244 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:45.840 planted that location, so he could have died somewhere else. 245 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:48.320 But one thing I wanted to mention is that the 246 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.919 official story of Bobby going missing while he was fishing 247 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:53.960 at the creek that was provided by another councilor named 248 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:57.559 Terry Cowan. He has never been accused of any wrongdoing 249 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.399 or sexual abuse, so I don't know if he's lying 250 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:04.600 or fabricating the story about Bobby disappearing. But still, when 251 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.200 you hear like the account of Bobby looking upset and 252 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.720 the whole story from Hewitt about Bobby going to the 253 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:12.240 snack bar and getting upset that he couldn't get candy, 254 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:14.840 it makes you wonder if that whole story about Bobby 255 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:19.000 fishing by the creek actually happened. And I mentioned earlier 256 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:21.360 that his fishing pole and his carton of worms were 257 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:24.279 found in the woods like half a mile away, But 258 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.480 it now makes me wonder would Bobby have really taken 259 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.039 these items and then just drop them, or were these 260 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.519 items planted in order to make it look like Bobby 261 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:34.080 ran off into the forest and got lost. 262 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:37.440 Some kind of lazy subterfuge like, oh, yes, he's gonna 263 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.679 run away and think to take his worms with him. 264 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.080 If you were truly scared, or you were running away 265 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.000 and you're running away from that water source, Why would 266 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.720 you bring your fishing pole, Like, it's pretty cumbersome to 267 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:51.279 run with a fishing rod or fishing pole and to 268 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.679 carry a carton of worms. It just seems a little 269 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:57.759 bit ridiculous. So, yeah, maybe it's possible that earlier that 270 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:00.600 day he was fishing, and so there's some partial truth there. 271 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:04.159 Maybe he was told to change the time in which 272 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.559 he saw Bobby. Maybe he saw him at like eleven o'clock, 273 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:08.600 and then it's like, okay, well, let's just say that 274 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.840 it was a little bit later, and then somebody else 275 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.159 planted those there. But there's any number of scenarios that 276 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:17.159 could have happened. Like you said, somebody could have abducted him, 277 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:22.440 taken him elsewhere, and then when Hewitt finds the remains, 278 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:25.159 it's like, this is the agreed upon location that they've 279 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:28.840 been planted. And there's even the possibility that he genuinely 280 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:30.840 could have just found him for the first time, even 281 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:33.759 though I don't think that's very likely. There's just so 282 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:35.200 many things that are in play here. 283 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.120 Yeah, and that's the issue is because nobody investigated this 284 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.679 until decades after the fact, So most of the people 285 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:44.440 who would have first hand knowledge have since passed away, 286 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.919 Like I'd really like to reinterview Terry Cowan to hear 287 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.679 him tell that account of Bobby being fishing at the creek, 288 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.960 But I don't think he's still alive. And one of 289 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:55.480 the few counselors that lived long enough to tell his 290 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:58.720 account is Neil Hewitt, and obviously you can't trust him. 291 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:02.120 No, and callen. It would be really interesting to hear 292 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:06.120 from him now if he were still alive, because him 293 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:08.840 being one of the ones that was not accused of 294 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.320 sexually abusing the children. So if he was innocent of 295 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.840 all that and went through his entire career being like 296 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.840 an upstanding individual, then I would be really curious in 297 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.360 his twilight years how he would feel about all this 298 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.639 and if he would potentially disclose some more information and 299 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.279 at least let us know if his account was true 300 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:31.600 or not. 301 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.799 It's true, Like if he was a seminary student, he 302 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.919 was probably thinking that while everything I'm doing is the 303 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:40.519 word of God here. So if my superior is, like 304 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:43.120 the camp director, tell me to do something and feed 305 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:46.159 a false story, then I'll do it because that's what 306 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:48.759 my position. I'm a seminary student, I'm with the church, 307 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.360 so I have to follow what they say. But of course, 308 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:54.639 years in retrospect, hearing that other counselors have been sexually 309 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.519 abusing children there, I could see him wanting to open 310 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.000 up if he didn't do anything wrong on his own, 311 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.039 Maybe he's looking at everything in a different light and 312 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:04.039 now thinks that a lot of the stuff he witnessed 313 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.720 back then is a lot more suspicious in retrospect. Yeah. 314 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.840 We talked earlier about the power dynamic between a child 315 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.159 attending the camp and a seminary student, and we've got 316 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.360 a similar power dynamic between a seminary student and those 317 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:20.480 who are a priest or the camp director, where you 318 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:23.399 got an older and more established person who has that 319 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:26.759 quote unquote like direct line to God. So I would 320 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:29.639 think that it would be very easy to look at 321 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:32.279 one of these seminary students and they would be malleable, 322 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:36.120 They would be very impressionable, and more likely than not 323 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:39.080 to go along with what you're saying as literal gospel. 324 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:42.440 Yeah, and I think there's a good chance that is 325 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:46.200 what happened. So in December of twenty twenty, the Colorado 326 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.480 Attorney General's Office released a special Masters Supplemental Report containing 327 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:55.320 additional child sexual abuse allegations which it surfaced against Catholic 328 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.360 priests from Colorado because they have released the original report 329 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.879 a year and a half earlier, but now more people 330 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.960 had come forward, so the numbers had now increased to 331 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.039 fifty two priests being accused of molesting at least two 332 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:10.359 hundred and twelve children. And one of the new priests 333 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.480 who got accused was a guy named Gerald Roppola. A 334 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.200 man had come forward and said that Roppola had sexually 335 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.200 abused him, only he was a teenager in nineteen sixty seven. 336 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.079 Much like these other priests, he had been a Ropola 337 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:25.200 had been transferred around a lot and was actually removed 338 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.799 from the ministry in nineteen seventy in order to participate 339 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.119 in professional counseling, and he was on one year leave 340 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:34.720 of absence before he died of cancer in March of 341 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.279 nineteen seventy one. But what's particularly interesting is that it 342 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.200 turned out that Ropola had also been a seminary student 343 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.559 at Camp Saint Malo during the summer of nineteen fifty eight, So, 344 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.799 along with Neil Hewitt and Harold Robert White, this was 345 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:50.599 no less than three different priests who had been accused 346 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:53.880 of sexually abusing children who are counselors at the camp 347 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.839 at that time. So there's just a number of predators 348 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.920 there all there simultaneously who could have potentially demise Bobby. 349 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.400 That is terrifying. This camp was like a repository for 350 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:09.720 child predators. Is that where they sent the pedophiles? And 351 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:12.039 to think that they're all seminary students at this point, 352 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:15.079 they're not even priests. So it's that chicken or the 353 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:19.039 egg question, right. Is it that they decided to go 354 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.480 onto this path because they knew that they would have 355 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:24.680 access to children, or is it because this path was 356 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.640 very limiting for them sexually so they then turned to 357 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:33.759 predating on children. It's really convoluted and confusing, and they've 358 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:38.240 done studies on this where the priesthood within the Catholic 359 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:43.079 Church where you can't marry, that those who wouldn't necessarily 360 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:49.119 be pedophiles would engage in pedophilic behavior. So I don't 361 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.799 know what the stats are exactly and what they would 362 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.079 be for seminary students, but I'm wondering if it's like 363 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:59.480 the Boy Scouts where we saw such a huge number 364 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:03.000 of young boys who were accused by their Boy Scout 365 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:04.960 leaders and You've got to think the same with the 366 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.759 seminary students. Are you going into this because you know 367 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:09.640 there's guaranteed access to kids? 368 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.759 That's what I'm wondering as well, because, like we mentioned, 369 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.359 this was not common knowledge in the nineteen fifties that 370 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.680 if you were a priest who abuse children that the 371 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.480 church will help cover it up for you. These are 372 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.880 just seminary students who are really low on the toting 373 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:25.759 pol So how could they know that if they did 374 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:28.000 this to these children of this camp, they'd managed to 375 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:29.680 get away with it. But it makes me wonder if 376 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.559 word had spread saying that if you are attracted to 377 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:34.960 children and you want to abuse them and get away 378 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.759 with it, then this is the camp to go because 379 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:38.359 they will cover up for you. 380 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.039 And like, You've got to wonder what would have been 381 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.599 the type of network that pedophiles would have used to communicate, 382 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:49.200 because we know that pre Internet, there's ways that pedophiles 383 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.640 would communicate and share material, and I guess decide on 384 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:59.319 places or populations that would be more vulnerable in that 385 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:01.519 they would be easy you're to victimize. But you've got 386 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.720 to wonder in nineteen fifty eight, how would one who 387 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:10.480 has that type of a predilection gain information on what 388 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:13.519 would be a good place for them to predate on children. 389 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:16.839 I don't know how you would get that information back then. 390 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:20.400 I don't either, but you might recall that earlier I 391 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.559 mentioned that the camp's original founder, father Gerald Bassetti, had 392 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.920 also been accused of sexually abusing children. And this camp 393 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:29.880 had been around for two decades, so I have to 394 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.519 think that word must have spread and that maybe these 395 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.359 pedophiles like received information knowing that if you want to 396 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.519 go to a place where you can abuse children freely, 397 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:40.359 this camp would be the ideal place. 398 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.519 I would be really interested to know if any of 399 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:47.960 these camp counselors attended this camp when they themselves were children. 400 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.599 That's a good point, like maybe they underwent it and 401 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.000