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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Murder in the Mitten, a true crime podcast

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<v Speaker 1>that dives deep into Michigan's darkest mysteries. Each season, we

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<v Speaker 1>unravel one unforgettable case, using real core audio and rawn

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<v Speaker 1>terrogations to bring you inside the investigation. This is Murder

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<v Speaker 1>in the Mitten, Michigan's most chilling stories, told one case

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<v Speaker 1>at a time. This is Season one, The Murder of

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<v Speaker 1>Lyle Copenkowski. Episode one, atl Attempt to Locate. Our first

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<v Speaker 1>case covers the murder of lylek Copenkaski and Potaski, Michigan.

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<v Speaker 1>Pataski is located in the northern Lower Peninsula, about four

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<v Speaker 1>hours or two hundred and seventy miles north of Detroit.

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<v Speaker 1>It is the most northern county in the Lower Peninsula

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<v Speaker 1>and the county seat of Emmett County. Potaski was incorporated

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<v Speaker 1>as a village in eighteen seventy nine and a city

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<v Speaker 1>in eighteen ninety five. Potaski is a population of about

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<v Speaker 1>fifty eight hundred people. It's a very popular resort town,

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<v Speaker 1>and the population almost doubles in the summer due to

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of summer homes and cottages in the area.

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<v Speaker 1>Potaski is located right on Lake Michigan, and you're never

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<v Speaker 1>more than a few minutes from a lake, as there

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<v Speaker 1>are also several inland lakes. While the downtown area and

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<v Speaker 1>areas close to the lake are the most popular with

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<v Speaker 1>the out of towners, the outskirts of Emmett County are

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<v Speaker 1>very rural with hundreds of acres of farmland. Lyle Copenkaski

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<v Speaker 1>was born on July twenty second, nineteen fifty four, to

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<v Speaker 1>George and Luella Copenkawski, who was born and raised in

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<v Speaker 1>Potaski and attended the local schools. He graduated from Pataski

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<v Speaker 1>High School in nineteen seventy two. Lyle had one older

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<v Speaker 1>brother named Carl. Carl was three years older than Lyle

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<v Speaker 1>and they were very close. Carol Duncle was born on

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<v Speaker 1>August twenty sixth, nineteen fifty three. Carol was also born

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<v Speaker 1>and raised in Pataski. She had three brothers and was

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<v Speaker 1>the only girl. She was described as being a tomboy

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<v Speaker 1>and wasn't afraid to get dirty and rough house with

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<v Speaker 1>her brothers. Carol and her brothers were friends with Lyle

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<v Speaker 1>and Carl growing up, as the family's farms were next

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<v Speaker 1>door to each other. Carol and Lyle started dating while

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<v Speaker 1>in high school. They wanted to get married in the

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<v Speaker 1>summer of nineteen seventy three, but Lyle's dad wanted them

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<v Speaker 1>to wait until Lyle's brother Carl was home from the service.

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<v Speaker 2>How manyngers would have been marriage that um.

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<v Speaker 3>Seventy They got married September twenty ninth to seventy three.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, we'll spend a while because we were gonna

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<v Speaker 4>get married in July, and I was still in the service,

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<v Speaker 4>and then said, no, you got getting married until.

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<v Speaker 5>Till we brobably gets home.

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<v Speaker 3>So then, so I served a fourteenth clow September July

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<v Speaker 3>September now fourteenth and they got married to twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Carol was hard working and almost always had three to

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<v Speaker 1>four jobs at a time. Lyle worked as a heavy

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<v Speaker 1>equipment operator, digging for sewer and waterlines. Lyele and Carol

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have any children, but it appeared that Lyle wanted

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<v Speaker 1>kids at one point, but Carol never wanted any. Lyle

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<v Speaker 1>and Carol traveled a lot together. They would take regular

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<v Speaker 1>trips to Florida and also vacationed in the Ozarks. Carol

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<v Speaker 1>and Lyle were also avid Nascar fans and would travel

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<v Speaker 1>to attend multiple races every year. Carol enjoyed going to

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<v Speaker 1>yard sales and finding things to resell at her own

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<v Speaker 1>yard sales and an eBay. She was also known to

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<v Speaker 1>be dumpster diving to search for items to sell.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know that.

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<v Speaker 7>She's been dumpster diving for the last I'm gonna say

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<v Speaker 7>a year or more.

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<v Speaker 8>Dumpster diving.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Well, she goes to all the dumpsters in town

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<v Speaker 7>and she knows.

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<v Speaker 5>The better ones.

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<v Speaker 7>And it was always funny what she'd ended up finding

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<v Speaker 7>in the dumpster and bringing home that she could take

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<v Speaker 7>to the yard veil.

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<v Speaker 5>And sell or.

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<v Speaker 1>On October second, twenty twelve, Carol got home from work

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<v Speaker 1>between nine and nine thirty pm. There were messages from

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<v Speaker 1>Warren Lyle's boss dating Lyle hadn't shown up for work

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<v Speaker 1>that day.

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<v Speaker 7>Our phone a couple of times. I tried his home

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<v Speaker 7>phone and then fine, later in the day I had

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<v Speaker 7>to go to Pataski, so I left him a message

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<v Speaker 7>on its home phone, Lyle, I'll come over to the

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<v Speaker 7>house make sure nothing has happened to you guys or something,

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<v Speaker 7>because he's just always at work, you know. And so

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<v Speaker 7>I drove over to the house and ringing the Doorbow

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<v Speaker 7>looked in the garage. Both cars were gone, and so

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<v Speaker 7>I figured, well, it's none of my business, you know,

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<v Speaker 7>seeing maybe something he quit me or something I didn't know,

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<v Speaker 7>you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Carol called her mom, Rose duncle, and then Carl. Lyle's brother.

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<v Speaker 1>Carl remembered seeing Lyle's truck parked on the side at

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<v Speaker 1>Keble Road on his way home from work that day.

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<v Speaker 1>Carl went to where Lyle's truck was still parked on

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<v Speaker 1>the side of the road and looked through the truck. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have the actual nine to one one recording,

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<v Speaker 1>I do have the dispatch notes from the call. Carl

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<v Speaker 1>called nine at nine forty five pm. He reported that

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<v Speaker 1>his fifty eight year old brother, Lyle was missing. He

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<v Speaker 1>told dispatch that Lyle had been depressed lately, but he

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<v Speaker 1>never talked about suicide or talked about ending his life

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<v Speaker 1>in any way. Officers arrived a few minutes later. They

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<v Speaker 1>attempted to call Lyle's phone. The phone rang before eventually

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<v Speaker 1>going to voicemail, which meant the phone wasn't turned off

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<v Speaker 1>as it was still ringing. Officers left a message for

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<v Speaker 1>Lyle to call into nine one one and that they

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<v Speaker 1>were concerned about him. Officers called Verizon for a ping

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<v Speaker 1>on Lyle's phone. The phone was managed by Verizon but

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<v Speaker 1>owned by a different company. The company could give a

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<v Speaker 1>rough estimate of location, but not live data. Officers also

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<v Speaker 1>called local hospitals to see if Lyle had been admitted

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<v Speaker 1>or taken to the hospital, but he wasn't at any

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<v Speaker 1>of the hospitals. Lyle and Carrol had a second home

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<v Speaker 1>in a neighboring town called the Lanson, which was about

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five minutes away from their Pataskey home. Officers checked

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<v Speaker 1>this home as Lyle liked to frequent there, but he

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't there either. Officers from the Michigan State Police, Emmitt

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<v Speaker 1>County Sheriff's Office, and Patasky Department of Public Safety assisted

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<v Speaker 1>in the search for Lyle. Carl told officers that no

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<v Speaker 1>one had any reason to be upset with Lyle. He

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<v Speaker 1>had his core group of five friends and didn't spend

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<v Speaker 1>time with many different people.

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<v Speaker 3>A couple of weeks ago, I called him, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and he's fine. I know he since the last winter

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<v Speaker 3>in the early spring before he went to work, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>he was having depression problems and and drinking. Okay, and

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't know he was taking so many pills, like

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<v Speaker 3>Carol said, for depression. He's not one to say, did

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<v Speaker 3>you take me in? You're not going to do that.

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<v Speaker 3>He's gonna chop it out. He'll he'll take care of it,

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<v Speaker 3>he'll work it out. Hold your brother, he don't fifty one,

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<v Speaker 3>he must be fifty eight, okay, fifty eight? And those

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<v Speaker 3>who lived, well, he lives with Carol boy any kids, no,

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<v Speaker 3>no Children'm sure okay? And he works where he works

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<v Speaker 3>for Montai Development, puts underground sword water.

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<v Speaker 2>In and okay. So is he an equipment operator general laborer?

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<v Speaker 3>He's equipment operator.

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<v Speaker 2>So he works to bacco and.

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<v Speaker 3>Loader and stuff. Who supplies sand and pipe and all

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<v Speaker 3>that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>If you had to characterize your relationship with your brother,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, are your best friends? Are you just brothers?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean because some brothers are you know, thicker and

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<v Speaker 2>thieves and other guys just you know you see each other.

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<v Speaker 3>You wait there, best friends?

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<v Speaker 6>Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Other than yourself? Who else would your brother be best? Friendly?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Terry that took the carolynne her boyfriend. They lived

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<v Speaker 3>together as Paul and I can't tell you his last

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<v Speaker 3>name at that terrible what does he do for a living. Uh,

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<v Speaker 3>he's started a heavy equipment operator too. He's been working

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<v Speaker 3>down state. Uh, not much work to and Terry, she

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<v Speaker 3>works for the eye doctor here and do somewhere the group.

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<v Speaker 3>He retired at least so then she went to work

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<v Speaker 3>with somebody on.

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<v Speaker 2>The bike face And they're close Terry and Paul.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, and they live up by top and to

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<v Speaker 3>be they're real close. M he's real good friends with

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of people. But in the past couple of

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<v Speaker 3>years that you know it kind of they have the

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<v Speaker 3>house up in a Lance and so that's his kids

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<v Speaker 3>and get away. I guess, you know. He gets out

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<v Speaker 3>of work, Pready Knights, comes home, takes shower, it beat

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<v Speaker 3>beat up till Lansing. Then that's on the porch. Watch

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<v Speaker 3>people go by. I mean people stop all the time

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<v Speaker 3>and talk to him.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh h h.

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<v Speaker 3>Dave Dave Bros. Works at Krings.

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<v Speaker 5>He lives up there.

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<v Speaker 3>He stops in. Uh. They're just numerous people that stop

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<v Speaker 3>and he's he's just a likable guy. He's kind of

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<v Speaker 3>ub noxious sometimes as far as the way yeah plays himself,

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<v Speaker 3>but everybody knows him. It's a good Joe. We go

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<v Speaker 3>to races, every August. We did that for probably close

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<v Speaker 3>to fifteen years. We got a click of people down

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<v Speaker 3>there that it's just like a home coming down there.

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<v Speaker 3>Keeping from Chicago felt of Chicago, Ohio. One of the guys,

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<v Speaker 3>Pat Welch, I got his number Kroll gave.

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<v Speaker 5>You will be.

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<v Speaker 3>Following him right away this morning, and Paddle will probably

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<v Speaker 3>be up because I will call him all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>He used to be in a nastarpool all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Dick Zinski, a good friend and buddy of his too,

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<v Speaker 3>is Carol's uncle Wally, and he passed away like three

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<v Speaker 3>weeks ago, and I know that took a toll on him.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know what, Wally, he has had problems for

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<v Speaker 3>the past years, and you know he was pupping in

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<v Speaker 3>a kind of you don't even get home, and you

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<v Speaker 3>know if he had a stroke or what. They don't

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<v Speaker 3>didn't really.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know the address of the house in the

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<v Speaker 2>l answer?

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<v Speaker 5>No, I do not.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I know it's uh two houses south of uh

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<v Speaker 3>Young's bait Chop.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so right on the main drag and then and

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<v Speaker 2>two houses south. And he owns a second home.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep, turquoise shutters and stuff on it. And they like

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<v Speaker 3>that he likes to sit up there and people stop

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<v Speaker 3>and they got there. They you know, they have no children.

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<v Speaker 3>So he's got a lot of Nascar stuff. And Carol

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<v Speaker 3>collects dolls and all kinds of stuff and antiques, and

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<v Speaker 3>that's what they kind of do is and you know kind.

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<v Speaker 1>Emmett County Sheriff's Office Sergeant Rodwell spoke with Carroll to

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<v Speaker 1>get more information about Lyle. Carrol stated Lyle was seeing

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<v Speaker 1>a doctor every six months for depression and was prescribed

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<v Speaker 1>ambient to help him sleep. Lyle had never attempted suicide

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<v Speaker 1>before and had never been hospitalized for depression. Sergeant Rodwell

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<v Speaker 1>asked about Lyle's access to firearms. Carol stated that she

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<v Speaker 1>had a twenty two handgun for shooting squirrels and chipmunks.

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<v Speaker 1>She also had a small handgun that they had won

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<v Speaker 1>at a Federation dinner, but never bought ammunition for it.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's Carol explaining what happened leading up to Kyle's disappearance.

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<v Speaker 5>The last time you saw him was what that morning?

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<v Speaker 5>Was that yesterday? Yeah? Okay? And that would have been

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<v Speaker 5>about what time he left her out? Five five thirty

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<v Speaker 5>five five thirty okay?

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<v Speaker 9>And did he say where he was going to work. Okay,

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<v Speaker 9>all right, Now you mentioned something about making his lunch

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<v Speaker 9>and pulling his car out.

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<v Speaker 5>Is that something that you normally do?

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<v Speaker 6>You know once in a while.

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<v Speaker 3>I do?

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<v Speaker 6>But oh, okay, Like I said, he wasn't in a

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<v Speaker 6>shape to go to begin with, and to pull his

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<v Speaker 6>truck out. I mean, he's only like this far from

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<v Speaker 6>the wood pile. I might just want to make sure. God,

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<v Speaker 6>I'm okay, yes, okay, all right.

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<v Speaker 9>And when you say he wasn't the shape to what

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<v Speaker 9>do you mean by that?

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<v Speaker 6>His speech still was not good?

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, talk to me about that. What do you what

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<v Speaker 5>do you mean?

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<v Speaker 6>It was like, I don't know, he really still knew

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<v Speaker 6>exactly what he was saying and stuff I don't know.

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<v Speaker 6>I just said, I'm feeling that. I don't even know

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<v Speaker 6>how to explain it.

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<v Speaker 5>So where are the things that you was saying?

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<v Speaker 6>It's just the way he said it, you have it's

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<v Speaker 6>not really like you talk when you're drunk or kind of.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't know, I don't know how to explain it.

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<v Speaker 5>So he's thoroughly talking different. Okay, And are there anything

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<v Speaker 5>is there anything that he said that was odd? I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>I need to know the old show.

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<v Speaker 2>What I can't remember?

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<v Speaker 5>Okay?

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<v Speaker 6>Are they just saying he was going to work out?

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<v Speaker 6>And if the whole that was really sad? But it's

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<v Speaker 6>just the weight's set.

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<v Speaker 5>Well what what what did you make him for lunch?

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<v Speaker 6>He had a meat most sandwich, some macaroni salad, a brownie,

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<v Speaker 6>a cookie.

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<v Speaker 5>And he made that for him. Yeah, okay, and excuse me.

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<v Speaker 5>He's in the car and he leaves. Do you see

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<v Speaker 5>what direction he goes? I didn't know.

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<v Speaker 6>I didn't even look.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, and he leaves around five thirty.

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<v Speaker 6>That's about what it was, all right.

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<v Speaker 5>Now, Has he had or if he noticed any drug

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<v Speaker 5>habits lately as far as I mean seeking drugs and

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<v Speaker 5>illegal drugs anything like that at all.

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<v Speaker 6>No, we just weren't into the drugs. I mean, neither

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<v Speaker 6>of us do I have done?

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<v Speaker 5>Okay? All right, so you haven't. You haven't noticed anything

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<v Speaker 5>odd lately? No? Okay? And as far as a gambler,

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<v Speaker 5>was he a gambler? Gable? Okay? So he leaves, and

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<v Speaker 5>what do you do?

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<v Speaker 6>I go way back down for a while until I

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<v Speaker 6>get up and you know, do my shower, get my

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<v Speaker 6>hair done, and then I to a Lanson took computer place.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, frond there and.

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<v Speaker 6>Then I came back and they got an adjustment from

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<v Speaker 6>the camera practor I went to VC Pizza, I went

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<v Speaker 6>to the computer store, and I don't remember. I think

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<v Speaker 6>that was after to be Ce Pizza, before I went

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<v Speaker 6>to the market basket.

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<v Speaker 5>I think.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm not sure. In the order I did this, I

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<v Speaker 6>had to read the computer place after the BC.

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<v Speaker 5>And he had a day off. Is that character? Or

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<v Speaker 5>did you work that day yesterday? No?

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<v Speaker 6>I worked out two places yesterday.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh that's right, okay, and he worked. Weren't you working

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<v Speaker 5>on them?

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<v Speaker 6>You told me Sea Pizza? And then I go to

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<v Speaker 6>the corner grocer?

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<v Speaker 5>And what time are you done with the corner grocer?

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<v Speaker 6>We close it nine? So I was out of there

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<v Speaker 6>probably by nine thirty, a quarter after nine, because I

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<v Speaker 6>got one by nine thirty. I call it carol.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, now did you Oh? I know, I'm sorry. So

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<v Speaker 5>what did you learn that he hadn't gone to work

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<v Speaker 5>at that point? Yeah? Okay, So what what I mean? Time?

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<v Speaker 5>Did you get a phone call? What's his boss?

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<v Speaker 6>I gn't worn there was when I got home after

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<v Speaker 6>corner grocer? Is when they were seeing the message like

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<v Speaker 6>like and that's when I listened to the message and

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<v Speaker 6>it was worn.

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<v Speaker 8>Oh I'm sorry again. What time was that they came

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<v Speaker 8>home from a corner?

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<v Speaker 6>I want to say I was home by nine thirty,

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<v Speaker 6>quarter after night, going to that quarter after nine, between

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<v Speaker 6>quarter after nine and nine thirty, probably twenty.

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<v Speaker 8>After okay, and then so you know, and then do

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<v Speaker 8>you call you? Who's the first person?

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<v Speaker 5>Do you call mom? Mom? Who's mom?

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<v Speaker 6>Mine? She's the one that lives right next door in

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<v Speaker 6>to gaul Askar, she had seen Lyle. Okay, she said no,

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<v Speaker 6>So then I call Carl.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Carl and Carol were speaking to investigators. Officers continued

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<v Speaker 1>to search the area. Keeble Road and the surrounding areas

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<v Speaker 1>were very rule. It was all farmland, no street lights.

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<v Speaker 1>It was also ten pm and very dark. Officers checked

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<v Speaker 1>the roadways and fields using their spotlights, and police as

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<v Speaker 1>well as local fire departments, tried to get as many

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<v Speaker 1>flashlights as they could for the search party. Backet where

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<v Speaker 1>Lyle's truck was parked, Sergeant Rodwell searched the truck for

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<v Speaker 1>any clues as to what may have happened to Lyle.

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<v Speaker 1>No weapons were found in the truck. It was full

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<v Speaker 1>of construction type items such as a large toolbox, jackets, hats,

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<v Speaker 1>safety gear, and hard hats. Sergeant Rodwell saw that the

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<v Speaker 1>key was in the ignition and the truck started up

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<v Speaker 1>with no problem. There was no other indication that Lyle's

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<v Speaker 1>truck had broken down. There was a lunch pail in

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<v Speaker 1>front of the center counsile with a lunch packed inside.

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<v Speaker 1>A coffee cup was also in the cup holder and

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<v Speaker 1>was full of coffee. Sergeant Radwell also noticed that the

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<v Speaker 1>driver's seat was moved almost all the way to the front,

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<v Speaker 1>deafinitely ate, not a position where a man of lyles

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<v Speaker 1>size and stature would sit. There were no signs of

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<v Speaker 1>blood or body fluid, or any sign of a struggle whatsoever. Finally,

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<v Speaker 1>at twelve thirty two am, Lyles's body was found. Lyles

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<v Speaker 1>found a short distance in front of the truck, lying

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<v Speaker 1>in a ditch in the tall grass. Lyle's body was

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<v Speaker 1>cold to the touch and he was covered in insects.

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<v Speaker 1>He was shot four times in the back and one

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<v Speaker 1>time in the temple.

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<v Speaker 5>Do you do you know what it is transpired at

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<v Speaker 5>the scene? Nope, okay, you don't know that. We had

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<v Speaker 5>the crime lab come up and he has multiple gunshots. Okaying, no,

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<v Speaker 5>I'm not kidding.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Murder in the Mitten five Holly production, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host.

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<v Speaker 3>Kat.

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<v Speaker 1>Join us next time for season one, Episode two, The

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<v Speaker 1>investigation