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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, Thank you for joining us again, and the

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seafood matters today. We're looking at something that's been making

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headlines in the US. The Trump administration has repealed an

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EPA rule that previously classified carbon dioxide and several other

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greenhouse gases as a threat to public health. That sparked debate.

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But rather than get pulled into politics, I want to

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focus on what it could mean for seafood. We're hearing

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that changes to greenhouse gas regulations might have a knock

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on effect for mercury levels in fish, and that's something

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this industry has lived with for a long time. So

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the question is simple, is this a real, measurable concern

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for seafood supply or is it more of a long

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term environmental discussion to help us and park that I'm

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joined with Kevin McKay, chief operating officer of Safe Cutch. Kevin,

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thank you for joining us again. Can you start explaining

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what's actually changed and why it matters?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, ultimately, you know, the US for a

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while was you know, not necessarily setting the pace, but

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it was heavily influencing the pace of controlling greenhouse gases.

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You know, the US is one of the top three

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the emitters of greenhouse gases in the world, along with

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India and China.

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Speaker 3: And when we were you.

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Speaker 2: Know, at the time setting the standard for reducing our

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reliance on uh, you know, the forms of mostly energy

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that that produced those those greenhouse gases, other those other

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two other of the top three nations, China and India

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were also following suit and reducing their mainly the reliance

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on coal burning power.

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Speaker 3: And it was you know, having a.

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Speaker 2: Huge global impact. Now that the US is saying, you know,

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we're not going to focus necessarily on these greenhouse gases.

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Speaker 3: We're going to allow businesses.

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Speaker 2: To mh you know, not be regulated and do what

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they want, whatever they can do to to make things cheaper.

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That also gives you know, China and India the opportunity

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to to you know, to follow suit.

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Speaker 3: And so what what.

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Speaker 2: We do, you know, ultimately is having a global impact.

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And because these are the three most you know, greenhouse

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gas polluting countries on Earth, they you know, it has

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a very direct impact on our global oceans. So this

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is you know, this is a very big concern. We

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already are seeing ocean temperatures warming because of you know,

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greenhouse gases. Global warming, and this is gonna you know,

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because these top three are gonna have less focus on

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regulating these greenhouse gases, that the temperature is going to

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continue to increase, and that's going to have a direct

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impact not only on on the species, causing them forcing

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them further and further north into colder waters, changing their

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their you know, patterns, it's going to also have a

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direct impact on mercury levels as well. So you know,

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ultimately the biggest direct impact is coal burning power plants.

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So if they're given free rein too to release as much.

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Speaker 3: You know, of the.

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Speaker 2: Pollution, and a big part of that is it's releasing

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mercury into the atmosphere that is then coming down in

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the oceans and through biomagnification, getting to the top of

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the food chain, and it's directly causing higher levels of

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mercury in the seafood. And you know, you can follow

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the trends in the mercury levels in the fish directly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Rety pretty interested in stuff for listeners

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who aren't policy experts. Can you explain exactly what the

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EPA rule has been repealed on what practical effect that

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has on emissions in the US.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not necessarily a policy expert myself, but

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primarily what it was was there was you know, five

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main pollutants gas emissions that that were regulated during the

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Obama administration, and the e p A essentially said that

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we don't need to monitor those anymore and gives US

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businesses free rein to pollute, to expel as much of

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these gases as possible. Primarily, the main three greenhouse gases

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that are causing the ocean temperature rise are carbon dioxide, methane,

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and your nitrogen oxides. Those are the three major pollutants there,

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with CO two being the biggest one obviously carbon dioxide.

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But the practical effect is that businesses who are focused

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on their bottom line, if they don't have to worry

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about if they're they're put you know, the gases they're emitting,

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if they're essentially giving permission to expel as you know,

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as many gases as possible without pre reign.

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Speaker 3: If it's cheaper, they're going to take advantage of it.

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Speaker 2: And so it is a practical effect as it's given

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US businesses permission to pollute at higher levels than than

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they have in fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and obviously this is trumped in this, and

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you mentioned the Obama regime previously. Do the obviously that's

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the Democrats and the Republicans, But are they politically involved

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that it would the governments whose evident power would change

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that thing.

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Speaker 2: I think so, because again I think that you know,

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this current administration, the Trump administration, has you know, tried

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to form itself as a champion of business, and so

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they're going to say, you know, we're going to deregulate,

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We're going to allow these businesses to run their businesses cheaper,

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but at a real cost to the rest of us,

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a real cost to the world, to the seafood industry,

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to my children. So that you know, there's while there's

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a short term view and that's what this administration has

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of making these businesses, you know, cheaper to run their businesses,

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at the costs to the rest of our society is exponential.

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And I think that, you know, the difference between the

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Democrats and replicant is how they look at that.

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Speaker 3: You know, the Republicans in my view, have a very short,

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you know, short term viewpoint.

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Speaker 2: They want to make their money now, or the Democrats

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realize that this has a much more expensive effect on

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all of us, and they take a look at the

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long term effects, and so I think that's the easiest

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way to sum it up, to sum it up really.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Of course, as always, whatever it is in the world,

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the worst thing you can do, the worst thing we

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can do is tick politics into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

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Speaker 2: But again, it does have a real impact on you know,

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this is a show about seafood, and it does have

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a very direct impact on our seafood, on the industry,

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and on the health of seafood.

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Speaker 1: So does repealing the rule immediately increase renose gas emissions

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or does it simply remove regulatory constraint.

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Speaker 2: I would say yes, it immediately increases them because you know,

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these companies, again, they're going to do what is best

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for their bottom line, and what's best for their bottom

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line is to not worry about to not spend the

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extra money to put scrubbers on on coal plant coal

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power plants. They're not gonna spend the extra care to

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research how much their pollutants they're they're emitting. So they're

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essentially given the green light to cut all those costs,

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and that's going to lead to more pollution, and you

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know they're not unfortunately they're not going to do what's right,

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They're going to do what's best for their bottom line,

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and so it is immediately going to cause an increase

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in greenhouse gas emissions.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, those companies are going to take advantage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what does the tame land here? Are we talking

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short term changes or long term cummunative?

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Speaker 3: I say both.

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Speaker 1: Culm imparts of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say both your short term you're gonna

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emit more.

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Speaker 3: You know, specifically.

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Speaker 2: The coal coal burning power plants are gonna emit more

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toxic metals mercury into the environment because they can and

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that's going to vary quickly, bio accumulate up the food

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food food chain. You're also going to have those long

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term cumulative effects or impacts because over time, those the

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oceans are gonna warm and as they get warmer, it

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causes the It actually deoxygenates the water. Water is less

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able to hold oxygen as it gets warmer, so there's

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less oxygen in the waters. Fish need to consume more

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nutrients to a abalyze and grow, so they're going to

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be they're they're going to be smaller, but they're also

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going to have to eat more and in turn, by

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eating more. It's just going to cause it by accumulation

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of that mercury that's now more of that in the

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environment is going to accelerate and you're going to have

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higher mercury levels in seafood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he helped me understand the mechanism. How does this

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increase your two or greenhouse gasses the regulations translate into

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higher mercury levels and seafood.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, yeah, I think that there again is a

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very direct translation. Direct translation being that the the coal

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burning power plants that are emitting these greenhouse gases are

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also in emitting at the same time mercury into the environment,

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which is then being converted the methyl mercury and bio

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accumulated biomagnified through the food chain. But then non directly,

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it is that that that change to the environment that

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is going to cause just like kind of you know,

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the global climate change is causing more extremes in the weather,

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it's also going to cause changes in more extremes in

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the mercury levels of fish. And that again it has

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to do with the the fish need to consume consume

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more nutrients to metabolize because they have less oxygen to

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as a catalyst in that metabolism due to the warming waters,

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so they have to eat more and that that and

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there are some that are going to not be able

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to eat as much, and so you're going to get

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the ones that went out survival of the fittest. Those

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are the ones that are going to have very high

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mercury levels because they're eating more fish. And then you're

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going to have the ones that are just barely getting

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along and they're going to have lower mercury levels because

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they're not eating as much fish or or prey, and

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you're going to end up with more extremes. You're gonna

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have higher highs in your mercury levels. So there's a

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very direct impact. And then there's the that again that

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kind of long term cumulative effect that's going to cause

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just bigger extremes in those mercury levels.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh. Is there to be an issue called combustion

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and a atmospheric deposition of mercury into oceans?

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Speaker 2: I yes, definitely those the you know, I think six

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you're seventy percent of mercury pollution is caused by coal

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burning power plants. That coal combustion is is taking the

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the mercury element that's contained in that coal and directly

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spewing that into the atmosphere, and then that rains down

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into the oceans and is by you is is converted

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to metal mercury, which is a much more toxic form

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of mercury, and.

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Speaker 3: Then that is again being bioaccumulated.

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Speaker 2: So it's it is the main issue by far.

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Speaker 1: Okay, is there solid peer reviewed evidence showing that claimate

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deregulation leads to measurable increases in mercury by your accumulation

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in fish?

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Speaker 3: There are there have been some studies and.

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Speaker 2: In uh, mainly Pacific ocean predatory species, highly migratory species.

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I don't know those offhand, but I know that there

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are pure reviewed studies.

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Speaker 3: In addition to that, there are.

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Speaker 2: You know, Safe Catch has has conducted over eight million

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mercury tests on Pacific Ocean seafood in the last ten years,

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and so you know, having that much data shows us

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that you know, allows us to directly, you know, accumulate

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that evidence that shows that deregulation directly leads to a

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measurable increase we're seeing and as I said, it's not

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an increase across the board, but it's an increase in

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the variability. So You're going to have much more variability

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within those those highly migratory predatory species like tuna.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which species are the most vulnerable tuna,

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swords or shark or are we talking a broader ecosystem shift?

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Speaker 3: Those are going to be your most vulnerable You're hot,

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you're you know, larger predatory species, the highly migratory species.

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Speaker 2: There. But again, we're going to have broader, you know,

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ecosystem shifts.

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Speaker 3: Too as as those.

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Speaker 2: The climate, as the oceans are getting warmer, those those

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species that traditionally you know, thrive in cooler waters are

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going to get pushed further north or further south towards

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the poles, and it's going to have an impact on

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maybe the prey they're eating, their you know, ability to

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to populate. You know, it's going to have very significant impacts.

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And if they're changeing their you know patterns due to

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the ecosystem changes, it you know, that effect could throw

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off another species that you know was dependent on that species,

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and it's going to cause what used to be in

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in you know, perfect homeostasis two you know, essentially look

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towards towards more chaotic tendencies, and it's going to change shifts.

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Speaker 3: That are going to have significant impacts.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I mean I'm sure you'll know this, Kevin.

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Commercial fishermen not already dealing with STRK shift, fuel course,

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quota pressure, and market volatility. Is mercury genuine, genuinely rising

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in wildcats or is this a projected future risk?

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Speaker 2: I would say across the board, there is a slight

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increase in in your average mercury levels, but ultimately the

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the greater thread is in the variability and the volatility

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of those mercury levels.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna have more extremes and so that you know,

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and I think.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be harder for companies that don't test

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necessarily to be able to make those broad claims because

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there's so much variability. It's going to be highly dependent

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on those companies that are doing the testing, like safe

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Catch to be able to.

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Speaker 3: You know, kind of drive.

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Speaker 2: Awareness within the industry as opposed to being able to

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to to fall back on kind of general you know,

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generalizations that they have that the industry has been using

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in the past.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Are you seen changes in mercury concentration and yourn

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testing data over the last decade?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we we have certainly seen it. The averages are

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getting higher as a result of just more and more mercury,

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which you know, as an element doesn't More and more

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of it is getting released from the essentially from the

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earth where it was stored before, getting released every day,

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and it doesn't go away. It stays in the environment

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because it's a heavy metal, and so it's it's you know,

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your body will eventually and you know, kind of removing

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from the system over amount of time, but it's not

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going to lead the environment.

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Speaker 3: So and we are seeing in those eight million tests

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that we've done over the.

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Speaker 2: Last ten years, we are seeing those mercury concentrations in

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our data rising.

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Speaker 3: Over the course of time.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not something that's just appeared recently, because I

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was dealing with the feed oilands becus far back as

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the seventies and eighties, and they were the stage where

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the pilot wheels the fish foot and they had it

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a ruling. I think it was a government rule, the

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law that elderly elderly people have children. Well, maybe it

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was just an advisory shouldn't eat anything like the whale

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meat dark.

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Speaker 2: Like those higher at the top of the food chain,

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the you know, highly predatory species. Yeah, especially if they're

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relying on that as a main form of nutrients of food.

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You know, if they're eating whale every day, they're certainly

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going to have or you know, certain types of seafood

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like that every day, they're going to certainly have elevated levels,

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and it's going to be levels that are going to

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affect especially those sensitive populations.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh. The next question you've probably it's probably you've

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maybe explain explained that it's not as simple. Could d

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I was going to ask you could deregulation in one

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country materially effect materially effect global seafood mercury levels, given

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that fish migration across international waters. But I think maybe

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from what you said, the size of you know, the

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size of countries like yourself in the chaina well, you

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couldn't see one country and then put the UK as

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another because it's completely different in population and size.

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Speaker 3: It is, but it all, it all contributes.

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Speaker 2: You know, the the ocean is is a big body

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of water, but there's you know, currents that are that

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are moving that body of water, those those fish, those

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that those predatory species throughout those waters. And then again yeah,

305
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those any of those species that are most affected by

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by mercury levels because they're at the top of the

307
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pooch in are also highly migratory, so you are going

308
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to have an accumulative effect from all of those countries.

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You know, it's just not one bad actor, it's the

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cumulo effect of everybody. Unfortunately, uh huh O.

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Speaker 1: Is farmed seafood affected differently than wildcoat It is.

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Speaker 3: It does.

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Speaker 2: You're you're able to control your inputs a lot easier

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with farmed seafood. Obviously, you know, you run into other

315
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potential issues, but as it pertains to mercury, yeah, you

316
00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:59,640
are able to control those inputs even more so in

317
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,799
like a closed farm environment. If you're in an open

318
00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:08,279
water pen farming environment, you're gonna have a little less

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00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:13,960
control over your inputs and over the mercury, especially if

320
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you don't have a clean you know, flow of water

321
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through those through those open water pens. But ultimately it

322
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is affected differently because you can control the inputs easier,

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but it's still if you're not consistently monitoring it, you

324
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could be Unknowingly.

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Speaker 3: You know, a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Farm fish is fed with other fish. If you're feeding

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them fish that have mercury in them. Then you're just

328
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contributing to the same problem.

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Speaker 3: You know, more and more.

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Speaker 2: Farms are using less and less fish in their feed,

331
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but it is still a potential problem. So you just

332
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:53,279
you just need to be more because you can control

333
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:55,279
the inputs more. You just need to be more diligent

334
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and in those inputs.

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Speaker 1: If where could it concern and seafood, Well, it's not

336
00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:12,279
new in your review, Kevin. Does the policy shift a

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step change risk or incremental one?

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm. It's a hard one to answer.

339
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Speaker 2: I would say more of a stuff change, but you know,

340
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:43,119
it could move more towards an incremental risk if there

341
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,559
aren't enough good actors out there too. Maybe two maybe, uh,

342
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:52,920
you know, cause cause change in the in the right direction.

343
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,160
You know, ultimately there are companies that are concerned about

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00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,880
this and trying to do the right thing. And if consumers,

345
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,720
you know, show their appreciation for these companies that are

346
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,759
doing the right thing by using their wallets, essentially voting

347
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:10,079
with their wallets, then they can keep this from becoming

348
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,960
an incremental one that you know ultimately can't be reversed. So,

349
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:19,920
just just like global climate change, there still is time,

350
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,000
There's still is you know, a chance for an opportunity

351
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:32,880
to keep it from accelerating. But you have to have

352
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,440
enough for the right people doing the right thing.

353
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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, it's good that people like yourself for

354
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:48,279
only is because obviously, I mean, I don't want people

355
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:52,240
to be scared off. How do we avoid scaring people

356
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,839
away from seafood, which is nutritionally one of the healthiest

357
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,039
protein sources available.

358
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:03,279
Speaker 2: Well, I think, just like with many other things, it's

359
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:08,319
all about education and awareness because I one hundred percent agree.

360
00:28:08,519 --> 00:28:12,160
You know, seafood is, like you just said, one of

361
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,720
the healthiest protein protein sources available. It's also you know,

362
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,680
in terms of it's global footprint, is also has a

363
00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:26,559
much lower global global footprint than or a carbon footprint

364
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:32,279
than than other protein sources. So it's better for for people,

365
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:37,200
better for the planet. But they're a big part of

366
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,119
you know, not necessarily that it's even bad for you

367
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:46,440
is it's the confusion, and that's what keeps people away

368
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,200
from seafood as much as the.

369
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Speaker 3: Actual mercury levels in seafood.

370
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Speaker 2: So you know, a lot of people, you know, we

371
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,759
we we spend a lot of time talking to you know,

372
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,000
the pregnant women, people talking thinking about getting pregnant, and

373
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:05,079
a lot of them are saying, if my doctor is

374
00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:08,519
telling me, you know, while I'm pregnant to lower my

375
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:14,680
integ seafood, and I listen to them while I'm pregnant,

376
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,559
then why should I change my habits again now that

377
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:21,480
I have a baby. And you know, like so, they're

378
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,319
going to consistently stay away from this protein source, which

379
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,079
they should be moving towards because it's because of the

380
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:33,880
benefits to the planet and to themselves. But if we

381
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,440
told them, you know, these these are the species that

382
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:41,519
you usually be eating, variability in what you're eating across

383
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,880
you know, seafood is important as well or simply testing it.

384
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,039
If you provide the education and the awareness for these people,

385
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:54,680
then they're less likely to even just be influenced by

386
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,319
the confusion around it, and.

387
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: They'll move towards this protein source.

388
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: So ultimately, education an awareness is one of our best tools.

389
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:07,839
Speaker 1: That's a good That's that makes a lot of sense

390
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:14,839
for education. Education very much because see if couch sorry,

391
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:21,640
I'll start again safe cutch tastes seafood for mercury, does

392
00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:26,519
increased regulatory uncertainties increased demand for your service?

393
00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:32,559
Speaker 3: I think so. But again that kind of it runs

394
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:33,599
in parallel.

395
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: With you know, the education around an awareness throughout the problem,

396
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:44,160
throughout the entire industry.

397
00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:46,599
Speaker 3: I think when.

398
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,279
Speaker 2: People learn more, they are more likely to spend a

399
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:53,559
little bit more to you know, do well aid to

400
00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:57,920
protect themselves, but also to to show that this is

401
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,680
something that's important to them. And so so yes, it

402
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:08,720
is you know, increasing demand for our services, but also

403
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,680
on the flip side gives us more of an opportunity

404
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,039
to have the power to make a difference on on

405
00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:22,839
the on the industry side, and and on environmental change,

406
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,440
showing that companies that are doing the right thing are being.

407
00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:34,119
Speaker 3: Are being rewarded for doing the right thing.

408
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you ensure that this isn't seen as

409
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,079
benefiting commercially from environmental regulation.

410
00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:55,759
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that it continuing to be transparent

411
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:03,480
about the reasons we're doing it, and you know, showing

412
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,119
people that you know, we're not just focused on mercury too.

413
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,559
As a company, We're also focused on we're plastic neutral.

414
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:14,000
You know, we pay for every ounce of plastic that

415
00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:15,960
we use in our supply chain, we pay to have

416
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:19,680
that same amount of plastic taken out or removed from

417
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:25,640
the oceans. And so it goes beyond just you know, focusing.

418
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:25,799
Speaker 3: On one thing.

419
00:32:25,839 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: We're trying to increase awareness. Bring more protein, you know,

420
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,160
that healthy protein to more people, make it more available,

421
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,799
two more groups. And if we're you know, transparent and honest,

422
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:43,720
I think people will see that and see that it's

423
00:32:43,799 --> 00:32:46,279
not just a money grab, it's we're genuinely trying to

424
00:32:46,319 --> 00:32:48,880
help consumers.

425
00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: Oh well, no, Kevin, we're taking a whole new dimension.

426
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,640
We're talking about politicians. I know you're talking a bit honest.

427
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,400
They don't.

428
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:08,319
Speaker 2: This is true, not not often mentioned in the same sentence.

429
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:16,359
Speaker 1: I think that it's quite the strange who one, you know,

430
00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:22,720
one party of government can make such a being from

431
00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:26,759
another or on something that's not directly political.

432
00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:34,759
Speaker 2: True, and oftentimes done in you know, a form of

433
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,440
of not necessarily saying it's political.

434
00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:39,519
Speaker 1: Coming here.

435
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:49,559
Speaker 2: Ye, sorry about that, Jim start again.

436
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:56,119
Speaker 3: Uh sorry, what was the question I was answering there?

437
00:33:57,799 --> 00:33:59,039
I think we were just commenting.

438
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,119
Speaker 1: Uh uh yeah, just on the I just asked you

439
00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:11,239
would I thought it was strange that one partner in

440
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,480
government after the other and they would and they would

441
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:20,360
change something like this which is directly involved in politics.

442
00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: And they don't directly say that it's a political reason either.

443
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:27,639
You know, they're they're saying it's because we want to

444
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,079
help business, we want to help the industry. But at

445
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,159
the same time they're saying this, they're directly impacting it

446
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,320
in a negative way, in an even worse way. So

447
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:37,320
I agree with you.

448
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 3: It's it's really kind of ridiculous.

449
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: If the missions rise, how long would it realistically take

450
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:59,159
before we detect higher marketing labels and fish.

451
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 3: I mean, realistically we're seeing.

452
00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: Those increases today, So there isn't a large lag in

453
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:12,239
these increase in emissions. You know, the bioaccumulation can or

454
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,320
biomagnification can happen relatively quickly.

455
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,199
Speaker 3: And you know, again.

456
00:35:20,039 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: It's this isn't you know having mercury, isn't it an

457
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:28,719
element that you know is also deteriorating at the same

458
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,119
time it's being generated and put into the earth. It's

459
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,760
just being generated, it's not deteriorating. So it's going to accumulate.

460
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,199
It's going to accumulate a little bit faster. And so

461
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,559
we are seeing it right now.

462
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:47,559
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, And what should fishermen, processors, and retailers actually

463
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:51,280
be doing diffinitely right now, if anything.

464
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,119
Speaker 2: You know, just again really trying to educate, being transparent,

465
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,360
and you know, taking the time to which the seafood

466
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,360
industry has always been good about, I would say of

467
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,119
you know, showing an interest in the long term future.

468
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,880
You know, they recognize if you take all the fish

469
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,000
out of the ocean, you're not going to have a

470
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:20,639
business in ten years, you know. So they've done a

471
00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:28,559
pretty good job of banding together and and and managing stocks. Well,

472
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:33,039
you know that wasn't always the case obviously, but they've

473
00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:37,320
done a much better job recently. And so just taking

474
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,079
that a step further and instead of focusing just on

475
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:42,960
the health of the stocks, but also the health of

476
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,920
their consumers, I think that they'll really be able to

477
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,039
see the benefits in the long term, just like we

478
00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:54,320
did see the benefits of focusing on you know, management

479
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:55,039
of those stocks.

480
00:36:57,079 --> 00:37:00,159
Speaker 1: Kevin could ask, good back to what I mentioned with

481
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,599
the Pharoe islands when adult was dealing with them, and

482
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:11,679
they took that and for elderly and children were advised

483
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:17,679
not to eat some of the that fish with the

484
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:24,320
mercury content. But they always they felt that with a

485
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:30,400
bit they were the victims because they thought can it

486
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,000
would be interesting if they were right, they felt for

487
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:42,760
this such a small island, small country, it was they reckoned.

488
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,360
It was coming from all the pollution that everybody else

489
00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:53,360
was putting into the sea and they were they were

490
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,679
suffering from it. Yeah, would you agree with that?

491
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:05,119
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, yeah, you know, it's uh, yeah, I mean that's

492
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:10,000
that's how you know, the the these these the impacts

493
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,880
of something like you know, thousand miles away in the

494
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,840
US can have an impact on this small island and

495
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,719
in the north, you know, northern seas, but like you know,

496
00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:29,800
because there's there's so much interconnectiveness, especially when it comes

497
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,920
to the ocean. So unfortunately, yeah, they are, because of

498
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,039
what we're doing over here in the US, directly impacted.

499
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,760
As a small island nation, they are directly impacted. And

500
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:48,480
it's not fair, but you know, that's that's they can hopefully,

501
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,320
you know, join the fight and and you know of

502
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:58,679
increasing awareness and you know, just trying to ensure that

503
00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:02,119
that that enough awareness of the problem gets out there

504
00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:06,400
so that enough people can you know, push for change.

505
00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 3: With their wallets.

506
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, Indeed, if you would advise in policy makers,

507
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:19,559
what would be the one evidence based auction you would

508
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,000
prioritize optional.

509
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 3: And I focus, Yeah, I would, I would focus on

510
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:35,559
the industry. I would focus on the you know, we

511
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:37,039
could obviously provide the evidence of.

512
00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:39,559
Speaker 2: The mercury levels increasing, but also you just look at

513
00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:44,159
the industry and how seafood you know, stocks, although like

514
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:49,920
I mentioned previously, they are well managed from a biology standpoint,

515
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:56,679
you can't you know, we're seeing like the sardine industry

516
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,519
off of Western Africa is high depleted right now. We

517
00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:04,280
can't get we sell sardines as a company. We can't

518
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,239
get sardines right now that are big enough to do

519
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,480
bonus in this because the industry is collapsing. And so

520
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:16,960
I think just real evidence on how these things are

521
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:22,880
affecting the industry on a large scale economically is the

522
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:23,920
way to get their attention.

523
00:40:24,199 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: Ultimately.

524
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yeah, it's just repeal likely to have a

525
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:36,079
measurable impact on the seafood on our plates within the

526
00:40:36,119 --> 00:40:37,320
next ten years.

527
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: Yes, it will. And you know, unless I don't.

528
00:40:48,679 --> 00:40:50,679
Speaker 2: You know, certainly this administration is not going to make

529
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,320
any changes, but there is still an opportunity for consumers

530
00:40:56,199 --> 00:41:02,679
to affect you know, how this is gonna gonna play out.

531
00:41:03,039 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 3: So while there is going to be a measurable impact.

532
00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 2: We as consumers can by using our wallets to to

533
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,039
reward the companies that are doing what's right, can slow

534
00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:20,199
slow the process and and and again make a measurable

535
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,639
impact in the in a positive direction.

536
00:41:23,679 --> 00:41:29,039
Speaker 1: So, without putting you on the sport, would you eat Judah?

537
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:29,599
Just know?

538
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 3: How do you say it? Cat Tina tested? Right?

539
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:37,639
Speaker 1: Yes?

540
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,519
Speaker 3: And I'm an adult.

541
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: You know if you asked me what I feed it

542
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,239
to my kids, it might be a different answer. I mean,

543
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,400
I obviously would feed them tested seafood. But when you know,

544
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:52,400
I'm fortunate enough to be able to take my kids

545
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,320
to Hawaii once a year, and my kids every time.

546
00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:57,199
Speaker 3: We go to a restaurant.

547
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 2: My youngest kid wants to order the girl fish and

548
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:04,599
I ask them. You know, unfortunately a lot of the

549
00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:08,400
time it's swordfish or marlin or you know, these these species,

550
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,800
these species that I know are high mercury, and I

551
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,719
have to be like, well, let's unfortunately, let's let's go

552
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,159
for the chicken today. As much as I would like

553
00:42:16,519 --> 00:42:19,360
him to have see, it doesn't affect me as much.

554
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,000
But but knowing that he's a smaller body, he's a

555
00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:28,440
developing mind. I got to be a little bit more

556
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,599
careful about what I'm allowing him to put in his body.

557
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:38,039
Speaker 1: So that's a very reasoning sod ask you because somebody

558
00:42:38,559 --> 00:42:44,760
who's so up to up to date and on on it,

559
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,199
and you know so much about it, what's what's your

560
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,960
own views on it? So really it's it's something we

561
00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:56,559
need to be thinking about, no, rather than think it'll

562
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:07,679
it'll be okay until another exactly yes, yes percent agree, Yeah, yeah.

563
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:14,159
Have you a social media presence, Kevin Listeners follow you

564
00:43:14,199 --> 00:43:15,440
on Lane?

565
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,119
Speaker 3: I mean, as my company, Safe Catch has a big presence.

566
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 2: I don't personally, but yeah, on Instagram, Facebook, We're we're

567
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,039
getting a little bit more active on YouTube and and TikTok,

568
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,960
but yeah, safe Catch, safe catch dot com. Will you know,

569
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:39,440
take you to any one of those social media channels,

570
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,800
but on all those social media channels just mostly at

571
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,960
safe Catch, Well we'll take you to the right place

572
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:52,280
where you can get information on what we're doing to really,

573
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:53,800
you know, fight the good fight.

574
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 3: Ultimately.

575
00:43:55,679 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we mentioned but just come into my mind,

576
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:07,639
shellfish come into sad. Do you find they're affected?

577
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: They are, It's on a smaller scale, but but shellfish

578
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,480
do get affected, and again that they they are a

579
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,639
little bit more heavily impacted directly via the environment they're

580
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:26,639
in because I mean they are lower on the food chain,

581
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,519
so they have less of an opportunity to to buio magnify, but.

582
00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:33,199
Speaker 3: They are affected.

583
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:39,039
Speaker 2: And we have seen certain areas unfortunately you know, I

584
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:44,119
shellfish that are in areas that have had industrial pollution

585
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,239
directly affecting those waters.

586
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,159
Speaker 3: We do see higher mercery levels and so.

587
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 2: Again it's it's on a smaller scale, but but it

588
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:04,039
can it can be impacted a little bit more directly

589
00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:08,679
because it's not lower on that on the food chain.

590
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,679
It's you know, it's just going to be more directly impacted.

591
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 1: So short answer, yes, do you ever try anything. I've

592
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,559
done a recent podcast with a guy in China and

593
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:28,159
they had heavily polluted waters after the war. There were

594
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,440
something like a paper mold or that what they used

595
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,519
to cleaned all the bacteria and the torkins, and that

596
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,159
was oysters.

597
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

598
00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of cases of you know,

599
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,000
nature does a good job of helping itself out and

600
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:51,000
when it when allowed to do it, and not when

601
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,639
not completely overwhelmed. I have heard of that you know,

602
00:45:54,639 --> 00:45:56,880
oysters are a great filter, you know.

603
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 3: Uh, so, you.

604
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,159
Speaker 2: Know there's a project in our backyard where they're doing

605
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,119
in the San Francisco Bay where they're you know, they're

606
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:16,199
trying to repopulate the oyster populations because of their filtering

607
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,119
and their positive environmental impact.

608
00:46:19,639 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: Uh huh yeah, Oh that's hopeful as yet. Yes, well,

609
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,400
I'll just say thank you and let you get on

610
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:44,519
your day. Thank you very much, Kevin, Thank you, Jim