Speaker 1: What's up body, people, and welcome to Countdown to Classic,
Speaker 1: where it's not my opinion that counts but yours. Hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to another Countdown to Classic. It's so lovely to
Speaker 1: have you all here again, and we're here for our
Speaker 1: I guess what is now monthly episode because we're running
Speaker 1: out of news, but today we actually have news to discuss.
Speaker 1: This Camelot business is huge. We spend the first hour
Speaker 1: or so of the show going over it. It's really
Speaker 1: really interesting, you know, self leak season very much so
Speaker 1: might be upon us and time is running out until
Speaker 1: please come twenty six. It really is right around the corner.
Speaker 1: Touch on that towards the end of the podcast, like
Speaker 1: we forget how freaking close we are to everything being
Speaker 1: unveiled and the mystery being shown to us. But everyone,
Speaker 1: please do enjoy this really fun chat with a bunch
Speaker 1: of the guys and I will talk to you at
Speaker 1: the end. Thanks. See up. All right, everyone, we are
Speaker 1: back with another Countdown to Classic. It's been you know,
Speaker 1: good month, five weeks between drinks since we had Ale
Speaker 1: on the last show. So as for usual, guys, I'll
Speaker 1: just reiterate like it's the combination of not a boat
Speaker 1: load to talk about over the last month until stuff
Speaker 1: started happening last week, which we will definitely be diving into.
Speaker 1: But also, I mean, the guild is going so great
Speaker 1: without me, will dive into that. I have just come
Speaker 1: off of a one month stint that I had to
Speaker 1: do as part of my teaching degree where I had
Speaker 1: to like I did this back in September October. A
Speaker 1: few listeners remember where I had to go into a
Speaker 1: school for two weeks and get some observational experience. This
Speaker 1: time around about you know, six seven, eight months later,
Speaker 1: they go, Okay, now the next stage of your degree
Speaker 1: is getting some actual work experience, Like you now have
Speaker 1: to teach classes. So I just started at a local
Speaker 1: school about ten minutes down the road from me a
Speaker 1: month ago and I had to be there for four
Speaker 1: weeks and teach a class for the first time in
Speaker 1: my life. And I was shitting bricks sort of. No,
Speaker 1: I wasn't that scared, but like, it's a bit intimidating
Speaker 1: getting in front of a class for the first time,
Speaker 1: and I loved it. It all went really really well.
Speaker 1: I had a year twelve legal studies class. I had
Speaker 1: a year nine humanities class, year nine business class and
Speaker 1: everything went really, really well. So that's why I have
Speaker 1: been an absolute ghost. I've been an apparition, a myth
Speaker 1: in the discord for the last month. I've been so
Speaker 1: flat out with doing all the school stuff on top
Speaker 1: of the refereeing on the weekends. Like I get I
Speaker 1: said to you guys on the last episode, like it
Speaker 1: is just amusing at this point how different my life
Speaker 1: is over the last two months compared to what it
Speaker 1: was before. So I'm still dealing with those changes. But
Speaker 1: mat no regrets about doing the school teaching thing, like
Speaker 1: I absolutely loved it. If anything, the only fallout from
Speaker 1: it is this is going to be a real struggle.
Speaker 1: I think I have to try my best to clean
Speaker 1: up the podcast a little bit. If I'm now going
Speaker 1: to be teaching, maybe my swearing has to be dialed
Speaker 1: down slightly. We shall see. I'm definitely gonna have to
Speaker 1: refrain from the sea bombs, so Andy, you'll have to
Speaker 1: police me on those ones, all right, because the bloody kids.
Speaker 1: Here's what happened first freaking lesson.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Gooday, guys, him your teacher for the next month. My
Speaker 1: name is mister Corbett. I shit, you not like Forty
Speaker 1: five seconds later, one of the kids has got his
Speaker 1: hands up because they've google me straight away and gone like,
Speaker 1: so you don't happen to host wow, classic podcast? Do
Speaker 1: you're not going on?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Oh no, it begins. Luckily they saw like the nine
Speaker 1: hour episode and they were like, there's no, there's no
Speaker 1: way I'm listening to that. So they never actually sat
Speaker 1: down and listened to the show. They just know that
Speaker 1: I hosted the podcast, and I thought, look, just for
Speaker 1: the sake of my future career, maybe I will clean
Speaker 1: up my act a little bit. Do you think I
Speaker 1: can do it?
Speaker 4: Arcoss, Sorry, I didn't listen to another.
Speaker 1: Perfect No, No, it's the best start, all right, Auntie?
Speaker 1: What about you? Do you have faith in me? Auntie?
Speaker 1: Can I clean?
Speaker 5: What are you talking about? You're going to get passionate
Speaker 5: about something and then you're going to be just dropping
Speaker 5: the sea bombs all over the place. You know, I
Speaker 5: suppose it says it's a terrible thing for our younger
Speaker 5: generation not to have that attention. Stand to listen to
Speaker 5: only a nine hour.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's going to be awful anyway. I look forward
Speaker 1: to the day I get fired because it's like you said,
Speaker 1: the f word on a pod on a live stream.
Speaker 1: We can't have that anyway. Wishall see, guys, we have
Speaker 1: so much to talk about now that I've given you
Speaker 1: the update on my life. We have so many lovely
Speaker 1: familiar faces here in chat with us. Ready to either
Speaker 1: go to raid in about an hour and a half
Speaker 1: with the Guild or just sit around and shoot the
Speaker 1: shit with us and talk about the news that's come
Speaker 1: up this week that I alluded to. So we'll just
Speaker 1: have some really quick hellos. Anti. Mate, You've changed from
Speaker 1: Rogue to Mage, but you're still the same lovable guy.
Speaker 1: How are you very well?
Speaker 3: Mate?
Speaker 5: How you doing yourself?
Speaker 1: Very good? No regrets on the Mage change or some regrets.
Speaker 5: I regret that I'm playing Arcane right now, but outside
Speaker 5: of that, it's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Very good. We've got Arcos here just for about ten minutes.
Speaker 1: Arcos is going to talk to us first off about
Speaker 1: a little bit of Season of Discovery re rolling. Mate,
Speaker 1: how are you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, good man, just a bit tired, just.
Speaker 1: A bit tired from the no sleep till Brooklyn with
Speaker 1: the five hours to sixty and sod that we'll get
Speaker 1: to to Blast. He's gonna be our expert our man
Speaker 1: on the inside the the you know, mister Robot, when
Speaker 1: it comes to explaining all of this Camelot stuff that's
Speaker 1: getting unearthed, How are you Maze doing good? Are you
Speaker 1: really good?
Speaker 2: Mate?
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here. You are the secret sauce
Speaker 1: to this episode. We've also got dry l but he's
Speaker 1: on mute. I'll just say gooday, And then we've got
Speaker 1: the lifeblood of the guild. Someone asked me and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't actually know. They're like, is Green
Speaker 1: the new GM And I was like, I think so Green,
Speaker 1: can you confirm or deny? Yeah, I'm running the show. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: somebody had to keep the lights on. That's it. Somebody did.
Speaker 1: Like we've made all the jokes that are not really jokes,
Speaker 1: they're unfortunately true that Daddy went for cigarettes and never
Speaker 1: came back. And you know, I've told I've explained to
Speaker 1: you guys why not that that lets me off the hook.
Speaker 1: But Green has just picked up the ball and ran
Speaker 1: with it. And you know, him and the leadership Group
Speaker 1: have just turned this guild into a fucking behemoth of
Speaker 1: a guild, like a really strong motoring guild that is
Speaker 1: getting stuff done, and we're going to get into that eventually,
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for your blood, sweat and tears. Green.
Speaker 1: We've also got Malachi's here.
Speaker 6: How are you mate, Yeah, it's Gecko Mayhem, but yeah,
Speaker 6: Malachi's my obviously my character.
Speaker 1: Well you ever know, I was like trying to respect
Speaker 1: the new change of names. So what do we go by?
Speaker 6: Ah, you can call me. I'm used to the boys
Speaker 6: call him a Malachai. But yeah, Green's doing such a
Speaker 6: good job and the rest of the leadership team, the
Speaker 6: Guild is really doing well. We've got to rate today
Speaker 6: and yeah, these guys are just pulling things together.
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, I'm not just blowing smoke up there.
Speaker 1: Ares like to say they're doing well as an understatement.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about the Guild and people listening at home
Speaker 1: who aren't in the Guild will be like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: like the Countdown crew actually got it shipped together. That's amazing. Anyway,
Speaker 1: sci Fi as well, who I still? I listened back
Speaker 1: to his last appearance on the podcast, and he provided
Speaker 1: a lot of chuckles. We love him like a son.
Speaker 1: How are you mate, I'm good, mate, I'm good.
Speaker 7: I've also, just like yourself gone out for a pack
Speaker 7: of smokes.
Speaker 1: Yep, but have you disappeared since the last podcast recording?
Speaker 7: No, I have to leave the guild.
Speaker 1: That's right. No, I remember that. That was fine though
Speaker 1: you needed to raid at proper times.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I know. It's a bit sad though.
Speaker 1: No, all good os so sci Fi sent out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he sent out the very tearful which we've we've had
Speaker 1: a couple of not for a while, but he sent
Speaker 1: out the tearful farewell, saying guys, look, I wish I
Speaker 1: could make this work, but I am in Oceania and
Speaker 1: I've got to get times that work for me at
Speaker 1: Oceania nighttime. And all the guys just did you feel
Speaker 1: the love? Mate? As everyone said, no, sweat mate, You're
Speaker 1: welcome back here anytime. We fucking love you. Let's move
Speaker 1: in together.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. And speaking of people who went for cigarettes,
Speaker 1: so our last cab off the rank is DC Green.
Speaker 1: How are you mates?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 1: What up? We're good? Are you a bit under the weather? No,
Speaker 1: I'm good. You're good.
Speaker 8: You're doing an episode on my favorite topic to you know, Nisse,
Speaker 8: So I.
Speaker 1: Thought, oh, there you go. You've either changed microphone or
Speaker 1: you sound like the most hungover man alive. But that's okay.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I have a different microphone now, so if
Speaker 8: it sounds bad, let me know and I'll try and
Speaker 8: fix it.
Speaker 1: No, you're speaking with great clarity, but you're a little
Speaker 1: bit softer. But that's okay. I've turned you up. You're
Speaker 1: all good, All right, guys, Look, let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, Arcos has to go first, then to
Speaker 1: Blaster has to go. So all of you guys in
Speaker 1: the crowd, you are more than invited to comment on
Speaker 1: what these guys are about to say. In fact, I'll
Speaker 1: need you to to spice up the conversation. But we'll
Speaker 1: get through their topics first, so that Arcos can go
Speaker 1: to bed and the Blaster can go to raid. Arcos,
Speaker 1: your time is nigh, Arcos overnight. Look, there has been word,
Speaker 1: guys of a little bit of a season of Discovery,
Speaker 1: you know, reroll, a refresh whatever, kicking off on the
Speaker 1: servers again. Some people are getting involved. I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: gone rather you know well. Arcos posted his involvement and
Speaker 1: sent the screenshot through to the countdown classic discord of
Speaker 1: his epic journey from one to sixty in five hours,
Speaker 1: and then he copped a lot of slings and arrows
Speaker 1: from the old Countdown crew who were like, how dare you,
Speaker 1: sir Arcos? What's happening over there in sod Land?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's kind of funny, right because most most of
Speaker 4: the people that I was playing with and said, I've
Speaker 4: not spoken to or played with for months, like only
Speaker 4: a handful of I played within on the Chinese servers.
Speaker 7: And then.
Speaker 4: Someone someone posts a screenshot of the of the video
Speaker 4: title from a streamer called Jokert on a video he
Speaker 4: posted on YouTube where he something in the title was
Speaker 4: like a sawt fake fresh and our killed name and
Speaker 4: insult was fake fresh. So he made the joke that like, wait,
Speaker 4: did you guys get back together without telling me? And
Speaker 4: suddenly the discer just blew up, and you know, within
Speaker 4: two days, the three of us who who were officers
Speaker 4: in not killed. We had had the plan to do
Speaker 4: something you know, silly or or a little bit deranged,
Speaker 4: and now we are, you know, six days later and
Speaker 4: two we've been playing for fifteen hours straight and everyone's
Speaker 4: level sixty. Everyone is mostly previous geared, and we're intending
Speaker 4: to finish the raids as as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: So it started out as a bit of a joke
Speaker 1: and it turned into an actual thing.
Speaker 7: Yeah it will.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one of the guys, my fellow officer, we play
Speaker 4: together in China, he joked that we should attempt to
Speaker 4: join one of the streamer guilt. This this this fake
Speaker 4: fresh sort event this quote unquote hosted by Alan g D, Jogrity,
Speaker 4: Sun Glitters, Gusu and.
Speaker 1: Savags.
Speaker 4: Those are the kind of streamers who are like bringing
Speaker 4: their audience into a into a fake fresh like they
Speaker 4: all have their own guilt with with a couple of
Speaker 4: different rule sets, and this this weird idea was that
Speaker 4: we would join one of their guilt and we would
Speaker 4: we would create a mice very well well well efficient
Speaker 4: rated team within it and then deny the streamers access
Speaker 4: to it, right like we would have an interview with
Speaker 4: them and tell them.
Speaker 1: That see see if you would allow them to play
Speaker 1: on see if you would allow them to play on
Speaker 1: your server?
Speaker 3: Yeah right, but.
Speaker 4: No, then just enough people from from in from our
Speaker 4: like sold days where we're interested to do something and
Speaker 4: LMGD had made it known that he wanted to to
Speaker 4: go and clear the rates as fast as possible, so
Speaker 4: we decided you know, we'll we'll take part in that
Speaker 4: challenge and make sure that LMGD is in second place
Speaker 4: for the fifth time in a row whenever he tries
Speaker 4: to compete for something. And so far we are we've
Speaker 4: been quite successful.
Speaker 1: Oh, very good. So have you found that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like people have tried to kick SOD off
Speaker 1: again multiple times over the last twelve months, you know,
Speaker 1: six months. Do you feel like this one is at
Speaker 1: least garnering some form of solid interest? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4: Like when I joined the event specific discord at the
Speaker 4: streamers set up, there were about twelve or thirteen hundred
Speaker 4: members and it has gained like, on average, like five
Speaker 4: to six hundred new members every day since. So last
Speaker 4: night before I went to bed, it was like seven
Speaker 4: five hundred And that's in like less than a less
Speaker 4: than a week.
Speaker 1: Now, Sorry, you might have already said, was this happening
Speaker 1: on NA or EU servers? This is only you EU? Okay,
Speaker 1: there you go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but there was a screen. There's like a lot
Speaker 4: of people from NA, Like every fifth message is how
Speaker 4: do I play from NAH? The people are posting videos
Speaker 4: of like how to create the EU accounts, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So back to you. My favorite part is always you
Speaker 1: getting shit. Is was the point to get to the
Speaker 1: level sixty raid or was the point of the reroll
Speaker 1: to like get through the level upright? So I couldn't tell.
Speaker 4: That varies between streamer guilt, right, Gouzu's guilt is doing
Speaker 4: I think six No, I think they're doing twelve day
Speaker 4: level bands. So they go to level twenty five, they
Speaker 4: speak to an NPC to drop their like xpea.
Speaker 1: Game, and that's that's something that they open it up again.
Speaker 1: Well pleased, hot fixed, So the other day didn't need
Speaker 1: to allow this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were some people who were tweeting attagrint or
Speaker 4: something and they put this n PC in. It's just
Speaker 4: the same one that we've had for like twinks and
Speaker 4: stuff in the past, same functionality. So I think the
Speaker 4: sun Glitter Killed is doing something similar or like killed
Speaker 4: self found or like one of these rules sets from
Speaker 4: from hardcore. You know, I have no idea what Savix
Speaker 4: Guild is doing or or the others, most likely jogur
Speaker 4: Tea and don't. They don't really have any rules. The
Speaker 4: only rule that like everyone has is that to be
Speaker 4: a part of the event, you had to have an
Speaker 4: affix or suffix to your name on the character. So
Speaker 4: and you no one knew what those would be until
Speaker 4: like a few minutes before the event began, so you
Speaker 4: couldn't create a character beforehand, and like.
Speaker 9: Or pigs.
Speaker 1: All right, this is organized, Yeah, very organized.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely definitely nice to organize that. Like, yeah,
Speaker 4: one minute to the event starts, there was like just
Speaker 4: a post in the announcement channel like this is the
Speaker 4: suffix that you should pick if you're in like to
Speaker 4: be in this group or community, et cetera. So yeah,
Speaker 4: and then everyone creates characters without the suffix and looks
Speaker 4: in and the ghost.
Speaker 1: Right, So which streamer did you send feet Pigs to first?
Speaker 1: Was it Goozu? Was it Sabax?
Speaker 4: I've never heard of Alex. I know, of course from
Speaker 4: the dueling tournaments back in the day. I'm not really
Speaker 4: a follower. I played with Jogurt and MGT in TBC
Speaker 4: for a while, but we were not involved with with
Speaker 4: any of any of them. We have our own guild
Speaker 4: and we're just doing our own thing, and but we
Speaker 4: were adhering to these rules of like the event starts
Speaker 4: at the twelve and that's.
Speaker 1: It, all right, very good. Well, best of luck with that.
Speaker 1: Did you do you have anything you want to say?
Speaker 1: Get off your final shots before you go to bed
Speaker 1: about all the countdown is getting on your case for
Speaker 1: power leveling.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 4: It really felt like, you know, those Reddit posts were
Speaker 4: where the the you know, battered casules are crying about
Speaker 4: try hard telling them how to play the game, or
Speaker 4: that they're bad at the game and they're getting gate
Speaker 4: capt right, but it was in the reverse right, That's
Speaker 4: how it's to me. But that's that's all good.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, if you're if your guild
Speaker 1: got together and you're like boys, literally the only reason
Speaker 1: where entertaining your thought of coming back to SOD is
Speaker 1: to do those level sixty raids again, then I get it.
Speaker 1: I understand. But if there was like a server wide
Speaker 1: universal memorandum of understanding, which is the hot term these days,
Speaker 1: that you know, fucking everyone would enjoy the level upraids
Speaker 1: together and do the thing, then I do understand the
Speaker 1: backlash to you and your guild going as screw that,
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna fucking zip to sixty and own
Speaker 1: this server. But that's not what happened, So I understand.
Speaker 4: Course, no, no, of course, I'm like, our interest is
Speaker 4: just to see if we can clear all the raids
Speaker 4: like within two days. So for the event beginning right.
Speaker 1: Right, So it's almost like a progression speed run as
Speaker 1: opposed to a raids run.
Speaker 4: Yeah kind of. It's like just a race from level
Speaker 4: one to the final boss and.
Speaker 1: Sorry one to be is that's the race?
Speaker 4: Well, we're not chasing a full piece gears that will
Speaker 4: will do every rate, probably no more than once and
Speaker 4: then we're done.
Speaker 1: Right, fair enough? Is there anything else you want to
Speaker 1: say before I changed the topic?
Speaker 4: Just that the the participation in the event is like
Speaker 4: pretty insane, right, Like someone was running a spy ad
Speaker 4: on like that, what's it called, like a Sancho sadon
Speaker 4: and he was peaking at like five eight hundred people
Speaker 4: logging in through the event on a server that had
Speaker 4: like less than one hundred active ward players that shut
Speaker 4: up to almost six k and when the event was peaking.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good.
Speaker 4: So if if anyone is hitching for salt, like you
Speaker 4: can check out the wild growth hord on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, send feet pigs to arcos and apply to fake fresh. Yeah, beautifultly, guys,
Speaker 1: we're gonna sorry.
Speaker 4: I was just gonna say good night.
Speaker 1: Good night mate, I hope you sleep well, sweet dreams.
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 7: How good?
Speaker 1: How a good chat with thank you? I love you?
Speaker 4: Let cream did let disagreem talk a lot because it's
Speaker 4: been a while since we heard his words?
Speaker 1: All right, you can you can talk?
Speaker 8: You debating me into the Chinese servers and ghosting me?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah you did? When did you stop playing? When
Speaker 1: you stop playing Titan forged?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 1: About three seconds after she loved it?
Speaker 4: No, I stopped actively in February. I got quite busy irl,
Speaker 4: so I focused on that. But I helped helped the
Speaker 4: guild out as much as I could, and the Guilt
Speaker 4: got the fastest as a sea speed row and did
Speaker 4: when the nax Ramos progression Whenxramas launched. But then after
Speaker 4: nax Raamas there was like an issue just with a
Speaker 4: player availability, so the project and died there.
Speaker 1: Not not that it matters, but if I can just
Speaker 1: get you on the record before you go to sleep.
Speaker 1: What do you think is getting announced at bliz Coon.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's Classic plus Wrath anniversary or both?
Speaker 2: Both?
Speaker 1: Okay, very good?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah I think both.
Speaker 1: Alrighty, I'm just going to say good ey to some
Speaker 1: guys who are good night mate, love you some old
Speaker 1: friendly faces that I love chatting to, and I'm so
Speaker 1: happy they here beef noodles. How are you mates?
Speaker 7: Good, Josh, nice to see you.
Speaker 1: It's I know I've I've dared to show my face.
Speaker 1: It's been too long. It's been way too long. Dared
Speaker 1: to show my face in the discord again. And we've
Speaker 1: also got stand dash mate. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good? How are you doing good?
Speaker 1: Brother? You're a part of that leadership crew which is
Speaker 1: doing so well with the guild. And another face I
Speaker 1: haven't seen for a while. You might want to stay
Speaker 1: on mute, and that's fine, Campsy brother, always love you.
Speaker 1: I think he's out and about. Are you down at Woollies?
Speaker 7: No, it's on the phone.
Speaker 1: In and about the house doing some chores. All good,
Speaker 1: all good, chaws chaws, he says, euphemistically.
Speaker 3: All right, yeah, I was doing some gardening.
Speaker 1: That's some self gardening. All right, guys, let's get into it.
Speaker 1: I now want to turn to out our man, our
Speaker 1: smart man, who's been just doing the greatest job in
Speaker 1: the Countdown Discord of really breaking down the back end
Speaker 1: as best he can with the info that we've got
Speaker 1: on the news that's happened this week. So we've got
Speaker 1: to blaster here, and everyone's going to creep a little
Speaker 1: bit closer on their chairs now because this is the
Speaker 1: part of the conversation they really want to hear about.
Speaker 1: As exciting as chatting to Arcos is, we all want
Speaker 1: to hear about what might be coming next. Now, guys,
Speaker 1: please correct me if I get this summary incorrect in
Speaker 1: any way, but to put it crudely, in the last week,
Speaker 1: the classic Well subreddit has been popping off. You know,
Speaker 1: Twitter has been I don't use Twitter anymore, I deleted
Speaker 1: it like a year and a half ago, but I've
Speaker 1: seen screenshots of conversations on Twitter going off surrounding this,
Speaker 1: you know, discovery of a what is you know, Obviously,
Speaker 1: in my mind, I'm sure you guys agree a code
Speaker 1: name for a Blizzard project, and that code name has
Speaker 1: been outed as Camelot. So now the question on everyone's
Speaker 1: lips is what is Camelot? What is Camelot? And the
Speaker 1: simple answer may simply be, oh, you know, that's obviously
Speaker 1: classic plus, but you know, not necessarily one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: So so we'll have that conversation about it. But what's
Speaker 1: been really helpful and interesting for me to see has
Speaker 1: been to Blaster's breakdown on exactly how everything is categorized
Speaker 1: and parked and the stuff that they can data mine,
Speaker 1: Like there's no gain details that can be extracted at
Speaker 1: this point, but a lot of interesting stuff that you know,
Speaker 1: maybe some people don't find interesting because it doesn't glean
Speaker 1: that much light on the project, but it gives us
Speaker 1: a little something. So to Blaster, mate, I'll turn to
Speaker 1: you and just say, mate, if you can give us
Speaker 1: a little bit, show you your NERD cred here, if
Speaker 1: you can unfurl your resume, like, are you you work
Speaker 1: in it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a software engineer by trade. That's what I do,
Speaker 3: very good.
Speaker 1: So yeah, now there's a lot of software engineers going,
Speaker 1: well fucking let's see if yours is bigger than mine.
Speaker 1: What's your experience? Tell us all about your background.
Speaker 3: So I work mostly with data modeling, reporting metrics for
Speaker 3: complex systems like voipe so phone systems, and predominantly I
Speaker 3: was in the front end, but these days I work
Speaker 3: more inside like a WS with like ETL pipelines, just yeah,
Speaker 3: passing information from one place to another. Make sure it lands,
Speaker 3: make sure it transforms properly, and you know, figure out
Speaker 3: what it means.
Speaker 1: Basically perfect. All right, my head is already spinning, but
Speaker 1: I love it. So tell us this is kind of
Speaker 1: going to be your story to tell here to Blast,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to help you along where needed. But
Speaker 1: tell us where this all started.
Speaker 3: So the first like iteration of this this name Camelot
Speaker 3: was published on x I think it was on Tuesday
Speaker 3: or Monday this week by a data miner who was
Speaker 3: looking at Blizzard's internal product catalog that's available publicly. You
Speaker 3: can scrape metadata from those and look at it.
Speaker 1: Can iry. I interrupted just at this point, so I'm
Speaker 1: going to be really rude. I'm so sorry to Blast.
Speaker 1: This was the intriguing part to me that nobody really
Speaker 1: talked about. I did see this guy pop up on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Is he like a known entity in data mining or
Speaker 1: is he literally just some fucking guy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this guy is I don't, like I said,
Speaker 3: I don't know him. I'm not really in many of
Speaker 3: those circles. I do a lot of the stuff just
Speaker 3: for myself for funzies, but they, as far as I know,
Speaker 3: his credential is basically somebody who is well known in
Speaker 3: the like world of warcraft data mining Blizzard discord s okay, Okay,
Speaker 3: so I think he also has connections to Wowhead because
Speaker 3: Wildhead also has data mining operations that they do like
Speaker 3: in partnership with Blizzard, and data mining really is just
Speaker 3: like a back and forth game between you know, the
Speaker 3: software engineers at Blizzard and people that just want to
Speaker 3: figure out what's going on. Okay, So there is a
Speaker 3: little bit of like, you know, data mining is is
Speaker 3: not really BM it's just expected and it is a
Speaker 3: good way for them to also intentionally drop hype, which
Speaker 3: is something we can talk about as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and I will, trust me, we will dive
Speaker 1: in on that because I made the tongue in cheeked
Speaker 1: tongue in cheek joke that you know, self leak season
Speaker 1: has begun. We will dive into that later on. But
Speaker 1: it started with this account. And that's why I wanted
Speaker 1: to know that. I'm like, was this some new person,
Speaker 1: new account that's just randomly popped up and gone, oh,
Speaker 1: what's this? Because that would have added credence to the
Speaker 1: like what's to say that's not just you know, a
Speaker 1: grand or someone just whipping up a new Twitter account
Speaker 1: and doing that. But it's good to know that, No,
Speaker 1: this person does have a history. They are a long
Speaker 1: time you know, Blizzard data minor. They've got some credibility
Speaker 1: or weight to what they say. So that's a good start,
Speaker 1: all right, I rudely interrupted you mate, keep going with
Speaker 1: the start of the story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no worries. So that just to clarify real quick,
Speaker 3: that data is verified as existing, so you know that
Speaker 3: leak is real. I've verified it, in corporated it myself too,
Speaker 3: So if you want to go look at it, there
Speaker 3: are ways you can do it. I won't get into
Speaker 3: the nitty gritty of how here, but there are ways
Speaker 3: to do that. Okay. So basically on on Monday or Tuesday,
Speaker 3: I don't remember which day it was exactly, that was
Speaker 3: released and came out and it got immediate attention from
Speaker 3: pretty much everybody into space, so you know, there was
Speaker 3: a Wowhead article went out. Icy Veins also talked about
Speaker 3: it a little bit, and that got me wondering, you
Speaker 3: know what's inside Blizzard zone you know battle dot net clients, Yeah,
Speaker 3: what's in the box? What's in the box exactly? So
Speaker 3: a couple of things I also want to just point
Speaker 3: out there is a one point six zero branch of
Speaker 3: World of Warcraft that's on what's called Blizzard CDN and
Speaker 3: that is basically their public facing like we're working on
Speaker 3: a thing space under a and it's it's classified under
Speaker 3: a branch called wow dev two, But that basically is
Speaker 3: it's completely encrypted, so you know, you cannot see like
Speaker 3: any parts of anything that's on there, Like there's no
Speaker 3: way to dig out, like, oh, is I don't know,
Speaker 3: is Warrior going to have this ability? It's not possible.
Speaker 1: But just on that, it's it's the flag that once
Speaker 1: Blizzard internally starts basically for all intents and purposes, working
Speaker 1: on a new client update, that appears there is that, right.
Speaker 3: So yeah, if Blizzard's working on something, it doesn't have
Speaker 3: to be any product they're going to release. It might
Speaker 3: be some test build, it could be anything. We really
Speaker 3: don't know, okay, And you can look at the metadata
Speaker 3: for that on blizz track and all of that information
Speaker 3: is basically hidden, and all you'll really gap from it
Speaker 3: is that it says that's this some one point six
Speaker 3: zero build, which again we've never seen that before. Season
Speaker 3: of Discovery was one point one five I believe, so
Speaker 3: one point six zero is much further ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's talk about that for two seconds, if
Speaker 1: that's all right. And again, sorry I'm being so annoying guys,
Speaker 1: but I've got a million questions because I am the
Speaker 1: layman in this conversation that grabbed me as well to
Speaker 1: blast where I'm like, okay, we've got, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the old one point one two, and you know, even
Speaker 1: a meathead like me somewhat keeps track of. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Classic comes out in twenty nineteen, and I believe that
Speaker 1: was the one point one three and as you say,
Speaker 1: sod came along with one point one five. You know,
Speaker 1: my eyes, you know, immediately lit up and notice like
Speaker 1: one point one point one five to one point six.
Speaker 1: I actually I don't get it now. I'm like, from
Speaker 1: a software development thing, I'm like, why didn't they just
Speaker 1: do one point one seven or one point two? I
Speaker 1: don't get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there really isn't a good explanation or obvious reason
Speaker 3: that that might be the case. Some people have maybe
Speaker 3: speculated that it could be a reference to the fact
Speaker 3: that it is going to be Classic plus caped at
Speaker 3: level sixty, hence six zero Okay, but we do know
Speaker 3: the fact we can reasonably determine, I should say that
Speaker 3: because it's a one dot client, we know it's going
Speaker 3: to be a vanilla client. You know, TBC is two
Speaker 3: two dot x dot x and Wrath of the lich
Speaker 3: King is always going to be three dot x dot x.
Speaker 1: Just just so tell the lame in the significant sorry,
Speaker 1: tell the layman the significance of that.
Speaker 3: So, what we basically know with it being a like
Speaker 3: a one dot x build is that it's gonna it's
Speaker 3: basically gonna have at least vanilla assets. There are some
Speaker 3: like it's again it's entirely speculation. A lot of this
Speaker 3: is just what like inference based on what exists. But yeah,
Speaker 3: the significance is basically one dot one dot x, dot
Speaker 3: x in this case, you know, one dot six dot
Speaker 3: zero really is just a confirmed like Blizzard client that
Speaker 3: exists on that branch.
Speaker 1: So to be sorry, you finish off, then I'll jump in, No,
Speaker 1: you're good.
Speaker 3: All I was to say, sorry, you go ahead, you go,
Speaker 3: you go go go go.
Speaker 1: Okay, all I was gonna say is so does that
Speaker 1: then mean whilst you could you know, you're a developer,
Speaker 1: you could add whatever to whatever client. I understand that,
Speaker 1: but is it far more likely than not given that
Speaker 1: it is a one dot X client up date that
Speaker 1: that you know, all but certain rules out You're not
Speaker 1: gonna see any outland, You're not going to see any
Speaker 1: north rand. This is just going to be the Vanilla world.
Speaker 1: Even though technically speaking, they could go I'm sure, like,
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, they could go off the
Speaker 1: Vanilla client, but then for whatever god unknown reason manually
Speaker 1: remake out lands and inserted in I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there really isn't a good answer to that.
Speaker 3: It's like they could have named it one dot something
Speaker 3: because it's the new version of whatever this current iteration
Speaker 3: of game they're building is, or it could be that, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's a signifier that they're going to build it
Speaker 3: in the Vanilla world. I think, like, I don't really
Speaker 3: have a like a strong view on that. Either way,
Speaker 3: it could be one or the other. I would probably
Speaker 3: say that since it's it's labeled like a one dot
Speaker 3: X product, it's it's probably just going to be based
Speaker 3: in Vanilla, and that's kind of how they're they're labeling it.
Speaker 3: You know, the guy, the same guy that posted the
Speaker 3: leak about Camelot does suggest that there is a hard
Speaker 3: connection this branch and the Camelot labels. I haven't personally
Speaker 3: seen that, so it basically it means whatever whatever data
Speaker 3: he scraped from these these vendor labels. So for those
Speaker 3: of us that don't know, the vendor labels showed a
Speaker 3: registration for licenses, uh for two different products. One of
Speaker 3: them was a World of Warcraft Camelot Heroic. The other
Speaker 3: one was a World of Warcraft Camelot Epic. And that
Speaker 3: suggests like two different versions of the game at launch
Speaker 3: in the Blizzard store, which may indicate a box price, right,
Speaker 3: So that that's one thing that we might see. And
Speaker 3: up until what I discovered this like yesterday, basically there
Speaker 3: was no actual conclusive proof that it wasn't just some
Speaker 3: retail mount pack or something like that, right, no real
Speaker 3: way to tell, but other than the speculation or the
Speaker 3: statements that these people have said, like oh yeah, this
Speaker 3: is definitely what they're working on on this one point
Speaker 3: six branch.
Speaker 1: As you say there, though, I think it is important
Speaker 1: to note like, yeah, we don't know. It could also
Speaker 1: just refer to like the standard extra amount packs that
Speaker 1: we've seen through like anniversary servers or whatnot, and like
Speaker 1: that doesn't set in concrete that there will be a
Speaker 1: box price.
Speaker 3: Correct correct, Okay, on that.
Speaker 1: Note, if I can just go tangentially away with the
Speaker 1: crowd now and sorry to blaster, I shit you not.
Speaker 1: I am on the bloody edge of my seat. You
Speaker 1: are doing such a phenomenal job, the guys are. The
Speaker 1: room is deathly quiet because everyone is listening so intently
Speaker 1: to every word you're saying. You're doing such a great job, guys,
Speaker 1: if I can just throw it out to the crowd
Speaker 1: and say, on that interesting note when you hear the
Speaker 1: blast to say, okay, we've now gotten to the point
Speaker 1: where it's been data mined these you know Camelot heroic,
Speaker 1: Camelot epic that signifies the potential for a box price.
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's just mount packages. I have said for
Speaker 1: some years that I've been shocked that no box price
Speaker 1: has been attached to any form of Classic product. You know,
Speaker 1: if I say it a hundred times, I'm shooting for
Speaker 1: that one time that I'm going to be correct. I'm
Speaker 1: still sticking with my guess that has been proven to
Speaker 1: be wrong over and over again, that this time Classic
Speaker 1: Plus will have a box price. I don't, and people
Speaker 1: get upset and go shut up, Josha, you're willing it
Speaker 1: into existence. I don't hope there's a fucking box price,
Speaker 1: but I just again would guess there is. When you
Speaker 1: guys hear about this, do you, as consumers presume, oh,
Speaker 1: that'll just be data mining for mount packages or do
Speaker 1: you think maybe it will be the box price this time?
Speaker 1: First in best dressed guys going out, someone be brave?
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 9: I fully expect there to be a box price if
Speaker 9: this is going to be a project that they're going
Speaker 9: to commit long term time into, either that or some
Speaker 9: sort of.
Speaker 2: Battle pass yep.
Speaker 1: If this goes beyond.
Speaker 9: Something to find it further to be ongoing development with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's sort of like we've alluded to in
Speaker 1: the past. If this is truly something beyond the scope
Speaker 1: of seasonal work, then that would justify maybe them throwing
Speaker 1: a box price on it. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1: Stand exactly?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, anyone else on this one?
Speaker 7: It's wow too.
Speaker 6: What if it's like, yeah, it's a box price, so.
Speaker 2: You know watch that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know how guild War's went to guild Wars too.
Speaker 6: Now Guild War's three is coming out next year. Yeah, well,
Speaker 6: what's to say that Wow is never going to go
Speaker 6: to a wow to People have always talked about Classic Class,
Speaker 6: or at least for the last ten years, they've talked
Speaker 6: about Classic Class. But if it's actually a reinvention of
Speaker 6: World Warcraft, possibly not even an Ezrath. If it's a Wow,
Speaker 6: toe be insane, But there would definitely be a box
Speaker 6: price to that because it's a new game.
Speaker 1: I want to come back to de Blaster on that
Speaker 1: because there's two points I want to quickly dive into
Speaker 1: there that you've raised Gecko to Blaster. Sorry I heard
Speaker 1: you quickly say under your breath there there might be
Speaker 1: something that supports that. What were you talking about?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so anyone can do this right now, but if
Speaker 3: you have Anniversary or Classic installed on your launcher, inside
Speaker 3: the executable binaries for the game, you can. The easiest
Speaker 3: way to do this is just to have an LM
Speaker 3: like chat GPT read it. But uh, you can look
Speaker 3: at that and inside those inside the Classic product, there
Speaker 3: is currently a flag for what is called mainline Camelot.
Speaker 3: Now what's significant about this is this I haven't heard
Speaker 3: anybody talking about this yet, so I don't know if
Speaker 3: this is mainstream or if it's just just me or what.
Speaker 1: This is claimate, claimate, it's all you.
Speaker 3: But so inside inside the the executable, these environment flags
Speaker 3: basically tell the file how to behave depending on basically
Speaker 3: what you're trying to run. So there is a giant
Speaker 3: what's called enroom of flags that exists that are like,
Speaker 3: you know, is Classic, is Classic TBC, is Classic Wrath,
Speaker 3: is Classic Kata, And they will tell you like what
Speaker 3: version of the game is trying to be run? And
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know exactly what drives those There
Speaker 3: isn't really a good way to find out just from
Speaker 3: the binaries. It's really hard to read because it's all
Speaker 3: like compiled. But basically there is a flag called is
Speaker 3: Mainline Retail and is Mainline Camelot. Now what's interesting about
Speaker 3: that is that all of the other like classic products
Speaker 3: are just called is Classic, TBC, is Classic you know, Kata,
Speaker 3: is Classic Wrath. Now it's not is Classic Camelot, It
Speaker 3: is Mainline Camelot, which is the only one named similarly
Speaker 3: to is Mainline Retail. Now what that suggests, and again
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say for sure that anyone really knows
Speaker 3: the answer to this. It's entirely speculation from here, but
Speaker 3: what that suggests is the naming convention supports a long
Speaker 3: standing product that may carry a box price and may
Speaker 3: not be seasonal with it being referred to as a mainline.
Speaker 3: It sounds more like it's going to be a first
Speaker 3: class product that.
Speaker 1: Is the spiciest fucking mate bawl. I love that. That's
Speaker 1: really interesting, guys. Is anyone else's brain ticking over after
Speaker 1: hearing that? Oh yeah, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 7: That gets me very excited in a.
Speaker 1: In a mental land of physical way.
Speaker 7: Mostly physical.
Speaker 8: I'm just thinking I haven't thought too much about the
Speaker 8: logistics of how they were going to execute Classic, but
Speaker 8: it sounds pretty substantial if they are going to go
Speaker 8: with like a totally new product with the box price.
Speaker 1: It's it's really interesting. Sorry, sorry you go to blastom.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say it's again, it's I want to
Speaker 3: really flag to this. This is just speculation, but based
Speaker 3: on the naming convention, that's what it suggests.
Speaker 1: Huh. I'm just okay. So here's the interesting wrinkle to
Speaker 1: add in though, because obviously we all know like the
Speaker 1: near future of retail has been out there, like obviously
Speaker 1: Midnight just launched and it's the second of a trilogy
Speaker 1: with I believe it's the last Titan coming out you know,
Speaker 1: in whatever, a year and a half's time or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it it to me doesn't necessarily shoot something off
Speaker 1: in my brain where I'm like, oh, they'll pull all
Speaker 1: the Classic and retail people in together and after the
Speaker 1: last Titan they go with Camelot. Like, that's not where
Speaker 1: my brain is going. But that mainline tag, as you
Speaker 1: said to Blastar, is like, is this the signifier that
Speaker 1: we're not digging around anymore? We're not doing the the
Speaker 1: fresh after fresh and the reroll after reroll. We are
Speaker 1: setting a concrete point in time for a real years
Speaker 1: on new Classic franchise to begin. I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a lot of speculation based off of one
Speaker 1: little word in a in a file, but I mean,
Speaker 1: screw it. I don't think it's cope. I think it's
Speaker 1: like worthy speculation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I means, go ahead.
Speaker 7: I was just gonna ask how was SOD classified in
Speaker 7: those files.
Speaker 3: SOD was just classified under the wild Classic header, so
Speaker 3: you you don't see anything that isn't like a mainline
Speaker 3: expansion and I do have SOD installed just to clarify,
Speaker 3: so it would have shown up if there was one.
Speaker 3: So what you know, what's in there is basically checks
Speaker 3: for like all the major patches that Classic is covered
Speaker 3: so far, all the way up to MOP and then
Speaker 3: mainline retail and it's like, okay, so we have that
Speaker 3: and then we right next to it mainline Camelot. When
Speaker 3: I saw that, I was like, basically, you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know if I'm allowed to cuss, but like, what
Speaker 3: the F was? That was my first response to seeing that.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, well, it's this literal, like you know,
Speaker 3: conventional named flag for this inside Blizzards executables that's just
Speaker 3: visible for you to look at, you know, if you
Speaker 3: can read it out of the binary. But you know,
Speaker 3: it really, it really, in my mind at least, lends
Speaker 3: itself to, you know, an OSRS style reboot of Classic
Speaker 3: Wow as a mainline you know, flagship product, because they're
Speaker 3: culling it mainline, you know, And that's really interesting because
Speaker 3: it's like everything else we already know the expansions for
Speaker 3: if it was going to be, if that was Wrath Anniversary,
Speaker 3: I mean, it can't be. We already haven't is Wrath
Speaker 3: classic Flag. There really is nothing else it could be
Speaker 3: in my head. So you know, again it is speculation,
Speaker 3: but it's I mean, if you want a smoking gun
Speaker 3: the Classic Plus ex I can't see it getting closer
Speaker 3: than that.
Speaker 1: I can plum mean, I have to laugh when I
Speaker 1: come back to the fact that we're even still speculating
Speaker 1: whether or not Classic plus exists, Like there are still
Speaker 1: so many people out there that say, you know, Classic
Speaker 1: Plus is bullshit, It's a myth. Look at all these
Speaker 1: kopa's out there, Like I couldn't fathom being able to
Speaker 1: sit here in June of this year right now and
Speaker 1: go I don't think Classic plus is coming, Like I
Speaker 1: just I don't even have like, you know, civil words
Speaker 1: to say to that concept at this point. But anyway,
Speaker 1: when you say all that to Blast, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: like it lends more credence. And again this might be
Speaker 1: a vast overstepping and extrapolation on what is a very
Speaker 1: very basic level of data mining, just a one word
Speaker 1: tag that where now I'm losing my mind over. But
Speaker 1: what it signifies to me is something we've said for
Speaker 1: you know, the last while on the podcast, and I
Speaker 1: know something I've been saying for the last two to
Speaker 1: three years, and I'd love to hear you guys comment
Speaker 1: on what I'm about to say. I have said for
Speaker 1: a long freaking time. The Classic team has to figure
Speaker 1: out what to do with us in the long term,
Speaker 1: because I remember back in twenty nineteen saying, look, and
Speaker 1: this is just me and I'm not everyone, and I
Speaker 1: get that. I was like, these guys have got me
Speaker 1: for about five years. I was like, yeah, I'll do
Speaker 1: I'll do Vanilla, I'll do TBC if they do it.
Speaker 1: I'll do Rat that they do it. But I've probably
Speaker 1: got about five years in me. I'll do the trilogy
Speaker 1: and whatever. And even though we're a little bit beyond
Speaker 1: the five years now, that is in line with when
Speaker 1: my interests started to wane. You know, I told you
Speaker 1: guys about at the start of twenty five my classic
Speaker 1: fire really did start to dim. And it's you know,
Speaker 1: obviously it's running on fumes at the moment, because I said,
Speaker 1: I wasn't that excited about TBC, and you know, I
Speaker 1: haven't really been playing. That's been fine, but I was like,
Speaker 1: these guys need something beyond the consistent rerolls. The fresh
Speaker 1: aft like Anniversary still seems like it's an April fool's
Speaker 1: joke to me, just the reroll after reroll, the fresh
Speaker 1: after fresh. They can't keep doing that forever at nauseum,
Speaker 1: even though this is a player base that loves a
Speaker 1: good fresh like that is getting old real quick. So
Speaker 1: they worked out, thankfully Classic Plus needs to come along
Speaker 1: as not just thankfully they tied it us over with
Speaker 1: the seasonal stuff. That's great, som and SOD came along
Speaker 1: to abate people like me, but also they've clearly worked out,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, that they need a permanent home for
Speaker 1: us in the long run, because it's like, cool, we've
Speaker 1: squeezed these guys dry for every ounce of interest in cash.
Speaker 1: We can for a five or six year period that
Speaker 1: the Countdowns of the world are fucking out of here
Speaker 1: if we don't find them a permanent Hime home. And
Speaker 1: I think tagging something like that as mainline shows to
Speaker 1: me like people have speculated this goes well beyond a
Speaker 1: seasonal effort, and this is something so foundational that they
Speaker 1: will then seek to make Classic unique expansions for the
Speaker 1: Classic franchise to build on Classic Plus. So like I
Speaker 1: would guess that enough effort has gone into this thing
Speaker 1: that's going to be announced in September of this year
Speaker 1: that they may even mention on the stage of Bliscon. Guys,
Speaker 1: this is not a season. This is us. This is
Speaker 1: our baby. Now we've convinced the higher ups to let
Speaker 1: us have our own game, and we will be building
Speaker 1: expansions for this moving forward. That again, that's a huge
Speaker 1: rant to go off of one mainline tag. Tell me
Speaker 1: I'm crazy to blast.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I don't think so. If you're going
Speaker 3: to attack something as mainline with the only other reference
Speaker 3: point being the retail main branch, it's like the only
Speaker 3: the only real way you're going to attack something.
Speaker 1: Like Sorry, guys, at this stage, I kicked my computer
Speaker 1: because I was so excited and enjoying the conversation so much.
Speaker 1: So we'll just throw you back into the spot where
Speaker 1: I restarted.
Speaker 8: So we'll start at one point five, and then we'll
Speaker 8: build up to and then like the one point zero
Speaker 8: release would be like one point six is kind of.
Speaker 1: How you could look at it. Yeah, were like they would.
Speaker 8: Like logically start and then like logically end. So I'm
Speaker 8: seeing like the breadcrumb trail here that they want us
Speaker 8: to see if this was their intention.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's really all it is. And that's a
Speaker 3: good thing to kind of reflect on, is that it
Speaker 3: is a breadcrumb trail and we can try and draw
Speaker 3: as many hard answers out of it as we like,
Speaker 3: but you know, ultimately we do have to remember that
Speaker 3: it is speculation.
Speaker 8: So is there anything that's happening in retail right now
Speaker 8: that is related to Camelot? Because someone mentioned that it
Speaker 8: could be just like mountain packs or something like that.
Speaker 8: Is there anything in retail. I'm not paying attention to
Speaker 8: any of like the retail expansion stuff right now, so
Speaker 8: I have no idea, But is there anything thematically that
Speaker 8: naming something in the data files as Camelot would relate
Speaker 8: to that? Where it's like, if it does end up
Speaker 8: just being a mount drop, we would all like face
Speaker 8: palm and be like we should have seen that coming.
Speaker 3: No, so there's no chance that what it is is
Speaker 3: a mountpack just because of what it is and where
Speaker 3: it's located when we had the label leaks. So I
Speaker 3: want to make sure that everyone's kind of understanding of
Speaker 3: following this, So I'll just repeat this and apologies if
Speaker 3: people already get this, But so the label leaks that
Speaker 3: happened on like Monday Tuesday of this week are separate
Speaker 3: from what exists that I've found inside the Wild binaries.
Speaker 3: They just share a similar name, so the label registries. Basically,
Speaker 3: it's a product that's going to exist inside you know,
Speaker 3: Blizzard's product catalog basically in the store, and that's a
Speaker 3: good place to look for upcoming products because it's like, well,
Speaker 3: they're going to start prepping that before they sell it.
Speaker 3: Does that makes sense? Right? And yeah, like if something
Speaker 3: were to be a mount pack and it were named Camelot,
Speaker 3: you could find labels for that and maybe be like,
Speaker 3: you know, what is this is that? You know? There
Speaker 3: is some discussion icy Veins I think even talk about
Speaker 3: it in their article covering that label leak as yeah,
Speaker 3: like this could just be a mountpack, and they are right,
Speaker 3: those labels that they leaked on Monday Tuesday could absolutely
Speaker 3: just be a mountpack. But what I found inside the
Speaker 3: actual Wow Classic binary, it can't be a mountpack. It's
Speaker 3: listed right alongside the other game versions. There's no way.
Speaker 1: All right, Sorry for all you listeners, I'll throw in
Speaker 1: a cheeky edit there. Sorry to all you Twitch view.
Speaker 1: As I was getting so excited, I kicked my computer
Speaker 1: and a race start. This is the most fascinating chat
Speaker 1: for me. I love this. Sorry so to Blaster, you
Speaker 1: were in the midst of something when I, you know,
Speaker 1: ko my stream. But I might just go around the
Speaker 1: room now while we give to Blaster a moment to
Speaker 1: take a breath and think about where we're going next
Speaker 1: in terms of the next part of the story. Does
Speaker 1: anyone else have any anything to say on all of
Speaker 1: this info that we've just been smashed over the head
Speaker 1: with any speculation?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 8: God, I have kind of a question about is if
Speaker 8: they were going to release a game that has a
Speaker 8: box price, is there anything that you know, you would
Speaker 8: expect them to do differently with the game now that
Speaker 8: they're asking you to chill out money for it again,
Speaker 8: because like, I haven't played Classic or Wow or in
Speaker 8: any form for a little while now, and uh, but
Speaker 8: I still frequent the subreddit, you know, it's still something
Speaker 8: that I keep tangential interest in. So but when I
Speaker 8: look at the subreddit and stuff, and I kind of
Speaker 8: think this relates a little to what you were saying
Speaker 8: Josh earlier about your winning interest and they can't just
Speaker 8: keep releasing fresh because I think that there's diminishing returns
Speaker 8: every time they do it, because I think that like
Speaker 8: the bot problems and stuff like that get worse and
Speaker 8: worse every time it's more. Yeah, And so you know,
Speaker 8: when I visit the Classic Wow forum, it's kind of
Speaker 8: the same topics always crop up. It's like, oh man,
Speaker 8: there's gold buying, and like all the gdkp's being banned
Speaker 8: is a bummer or they're secretly happening or whatever. And
Speaker 8: then now is this big casino bot thing where it's
Speaker 8: all these videos of people killing casino bots and town
Speaker 8: and stuff like that. And so if they were going
Speaker 8: to release a product that has a price tag attached
Speaker 8: to it, is it enough to justify the price that
Speaker 8: they're going to possibly do like expansions and stuff like that,
Speaker 8: or would you want to you know, would you want
Speaker 8: to see them do a crackdown on kind of the
Speaker 8: quality I mean of things that are happening on the server.
Speaker 1: It's that it's an easy answer because because of course
Speaker 1: every player is going to say, oh do I want
Speaker 1: Pleazon to crack down more on bolts and gold buying?
Speaker 1: Of course the answers yes, everyone says, yes, you get
Speaker 1: one hundred percent return on that in a survey. But
Speaker 1: I know where you're going at it is what if
Speaker 1: they're going to go that, you know, quote unquote crazy
Speaker 1: step of throwing a box price on a classic product.
Speaker 1: What justifies that? That's where I think we weave into
Speaker 1: what I said in terms of getting up at Bliscon
Speaker 1: and needing to sell like you don't now just announce
Speaker 1: a product. If you're doing a box price, you must
Speaker 1: win over the crowd and sell like. You have to
Speaker 1: sell it now because now it's not just included in
Speaker 1: the subscription fee. You're now actively not just promoting or
Speaker 1: like you know, announcing a product, you're fucking selling it.
Speaker 1: You're convincing people to hand over fifty bucks or whatever
Speaker 1: for this game. How do you do that? Well, you
Speaker 1: need more on the fish hook to get people to
Speaker 1: hand over that cash. And what would be the bait
Speaker 1: on the fish hook would be some kind of announcement
Speaker 1: of guys, we can't stress this enough. This ain't a season.
Speaker 1: This is a game. This is a proper MMO. Like
Speaker 1: think of it as like half a new MMO. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's based in the old Azaroth that you know and love,
Speaker 1: and that's old news. But the new news is all
Speaker 1: the content that we've built around it and what we've
Speaker 1: done with the classes and everything. We are committed to
Speaker 1: delivering an alternate classic here, and that means expansions as well.
Speaker 1: And you will if they get on that stage and
Speaker 1: say buy our product, because you will want to put
Speaker 1: the time in now because we are going somewhere with
Speaker 1: multiple expansions, classic expansions, not TBC, not fucking Wrath or
Speaker 1: like maybe in those worlds with new content, who knows.
Speaker 1: But we're giving you real expansions that have had real
Speaker 1: teams put in work and hours on this thing that
Speaker 1: marries up now sense wise or logic wise with If
Speaker 1: a box price were to be announced, you must throw
Speaker 1: that at people, because you're right, DC. People might sit
Speaker 1: back and balk and go, why the fuck would I
Speaker 1: spend money on a Classic product when I know what
Speaker 1: I'm getting for that money. I'm getting a bot riddled game,
Speaker 1: a gold buying riddled game where no one takes this stuff. Seriously,
Speaker 1: you guys don't ban anyone for anything, like, how does
Speaker 1: that justify a price? And and that's the because I
Speaker 1: can tell you now that ain't changing if anyone, if
Speaker 1: anyone lives in a world, yeah, if you live in
Speaker 1: a world where you think blizz No, if you think
Speaker 1: Blizy is cleaning up there.
Speaker 8: Money.
Speaker 1: But here's what I'm saying, I think there is still
Speaker 1: a world where it can somewhat be shut up and
Speaker 1: take my money and still understand that they're not cleaning anything.
Speaker 1: Like I know, I'm not the only one, and this
Speaker 1: is a flawed respet for a lot of people. And
Speaker 1: I understand that I wouldn't necessarily apologize, but I would
Speaker 1: say I understand where I am the consumer that's reconciled
Speaker 1: with my position where I go in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: I do understand the difficulty that does go beyond Blizzard
Speaker 1: of running an MMO in this day and age. Guild
Speaker 1: Wars has bots, Ruinscape has bots. Bots are a thing.
Speaker 1: But I am not not, in any way, shape or
Speaker 1: form apologizing for Blizzard. They are out of control with
Speaker 1: how little they do. It is. It's one thing to
Speaker 1: have an epidemic, but then also another thing to be
Speaker 1: seen to be doing nothing about it, and that is
Speaker 1: what they do. It is the public look is they
Speaker 1: don't care and they just sit back knowing that people
Speaker 1: will sub anyway, and they do, and that's fine, but
Speaker 1: that requires a little bit of effort, of positive effort
Speaker 1: on Blizzard's behalf to say, look, guys, they're not going
Speaker 1: to come out and say we're not doing anything about
Speaker 1: the bots, but that will be the subtext. But the
Speaker 1: thing to counteract that passive passive nature towards bots would be,
Speaker 1: but look how much positive work we've done in making
Speaker 1: new content for you. We have really made you a
Speaker 1: new classic game, and we're going to make you new expansions.
Speaker 1: If you feel that that sick new content, while riddled
Speaker 1: with bots and gold buying, is still worth the price,
Speaker 1: then we'd love to have you. That's sort of the
Speaker 1: situation I see unfolding. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I I kind of expected that when
Speaker 8: I was asking the question, you know, I was kind
Speaker 8: of trying to play it as like Devil's Advocate is like,
Speaker 8: is it enough for it to just be this stuff
Speaker 8: with all the underlying problems?
Speaker 1: But I think it is.
Speaker 8: I know that the Blizzard, the regular Blizzard consumer is
Speaker 8: very kind of shut up and take my money. Really,
Speaker 8: they won't really like hold them to a standard where
Speaker 8: it's like, yeah, I appreciate all this, but like if
Speaker 8: it's just going to be the same kind of low
Speaker 8: quality of life on the servers that I'm not gonna
Speaker 8: You know, well, I know that the product is like
Speaker 8: way too enticing. I mean, like, you know, we all
Speaker 8: know that we're like Wow addicts, and you can't get
Speaker 8: Wow anywhere else. So like even if the Wow is
Speaker 8: riddled with seeds and stamps, it's like you're still smoking
Speaker 8: it up every day.
Speaker 2: Charging for it.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'm not going to sit here and
Speaker 1: play the hypocrite, which would be so easy to play.
Speaker 1: I am the sucker, the loser, whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call me that bought multiple TBC boosts knowing that that
Speaker 1: game would have bots and gold buying and whatever. But
Speaker 1: I still paid the price to get into my foot
Speaker 1: in the door, do you know what I mean? And
Speaker 1: that's a long evolution of toing and throwing about how
Speaker 1: I feel about boosts and how I feel about just
Speaker 1: wanting to play the game or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1: If I sat here and said to you, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not throwing my money at a product with bots
Speaker 1: and gold buying, well it would be bullshit. Because I
Speaker 1: literally just did it a few months ago, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 3: There's going to be a level of that in any MMO,
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, no, I that's what I'm saying. Of
Speaker 3: what the response is to it by the doves and
Speaker 3: how they're you know, mitigating for it. There are plenty
Speaker 3: of ways to do it.
Speaker 1: I completely agreed to Blast, and i'd sort of try
Speaker 1: to iterate. It's not a popular note to hear, but
Speaker 1: I said it three minutes ago, and I'll say it again.
Speaker 1: This is not absolving or excusing Blizzard in any way,
Speaker 1: who deserve every bit of shit that they get for
Speaker 1: their bot management. The only addendum that I add, whether
Speaker 1: or not it carries any weight, is that if you
Speaker 1: picked up your toys and went home and go screw this,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go play another MMO, My goodness, you're
Speaker 1: going to run into the same problem there. In my
Speaker 1: personal opinion, there is no bot free MMO in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just the way of the world these days.
Speaker 3: I mean, especially where they're powered by AI agents, It's
Speaker 3: it's really hard to detect them.
Speaker 1: It sucks, it sucks, but it's the reality.
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, I think the biggest pull factor going back
Speaker 3: to what you were talking about originally with you know
Speaker 3: what justifies a box price To me, it's like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, I know that when I roll a character
Speaker 3: on Classic Plus, assuming that it's the version that you know,
Speaker 3: you and I have kind of talked about and want
Speaker 3: to expect from, you know, what we found out, It's like,
Speaker 3: once I roll that character, you know, that could just
Speaker 3: be my character for the next ten years. It's not
Speaker 3: some seasonal, seasonal transitory going to get merged into somewhere
Speaker 3: or orphaned, you know, in a dead world somewhere. It's like,
Speaker 3: you know, this is going to be a tune that
Speaker 3: I play for potentially the next ten years. And that's
Speaker 3: much more interesting than like, you know, Rath Anniversary comes out,
Speaker 3: I roll a tune on there, and I know eventually
Speaker 3: it's going away. I think that's something also to consider.
Speaker 3: It's like you might care about collectibles or you know,
Speaker 3: unique things that you can find, uh, and there's a
Speaker 3: whole big world of things they can do if they
Speaker 3: really do just reboot the game in that manner, and
Speaker 3: that that's what gets me excited.
Speaker 1: Yeak mate, if I can throw it to you, so
Speaker 1: I only just saw your comment, and I'm glad that
Speaker 1: I somewhat pre entered it because I was actually thinking
Speaker 1: of you as I just went through that diatribe about
Speaker 1: being it trying to avoid being a hypocrite because your spot,
Speaker 1: you're spot on. If nobody can talk, it's it's it's me,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? How are you, mate?
Speaker 3: Doing?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 3: Brother? Good?
Speaker 1: See back mate, It's always good to be back. I
Speaker 1: will have more time on my hands now that I've
Speaker 1: finished up with the school thing. Mates. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: been sitting there listening for the last few minutes. What's
Speaker 1: your take on all of this?
Speaker 2: I have no idea what you goes?
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 1: Okay, got it?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 1: All good?
Speaker 2: Or good? All right?
Speaker 1: I'll throw it back to the blast. Mate. Is there
Speaker 1: a next chapter of this story? Or are we kind
Speaker 1: of done?
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, there is beautiful kid me the Blizzard CDM.
Speaker 3: There is a BGDL I might have got that acronym
Speaker 3: wrong endpoint that you can check that will literally show
Speaker 3: you if they are preparing a build for distribution for
Speaker 3: the one point six to zero branch. The common consensus
Speaker 3: among everybody that's looking at that is there's nothing on it,
Speaker 3: right now it returns zero if you try to look
Speaker 3: at it. But once they actually do prepare to ship something,
Speaker 3: you know, if we are going to get Classic plus
Speaker 3: right after a blizz con, you know, towards the end
Speaker 3: of August, we should see something pop up on there
Speaker 3: and I'll be sounding the alarm as soon as I
Speaker 3: see it. So yeah, that's that's stuff to look out for.
Speaker 3: But other than that, I think everyone's just going to
Speaker 3: be trying to scan everything and find as many camelot
Speaker 3: strings as they can. So right now, that's all there is,
Speaker 3: but uh, there's there's definitely going to be more stuff
Speaker 3: that comes for sure.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 3: One of the one of the big things that people
Speaker 3: are digging at right now is trade like intellectual property
Speaker 3: filings for whatever it is. Yeah, and they're looking overseas
Speaker 3: like over in the US, over in you know, New Zealand,
Speaker 3: every you know, every sovereignty they can find. So it's
Speaker 3: pretty interesting. There's a lot of avenues to explore.
Speaker 1: Made in your mind. Are you on the same wavelength
Speaker 1: as me? I am beyond one thousand convinced that this
Speaker 1: is just a project name and has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with anything. We'll actually he gets set out loud on
Speaker 1: a stage at pliz Con. Would you agree with that
Speaker 1: or not necessarily?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think they actually announced it as like
Speaker 3: World of Warcraft Camelot. I think that's probably unlikely. Yeah,
Speaker 3: in my head, it's probably a code name. The one
Speaker 3: thing that kind of I'm constantly thinking about whenever I
Speaker 3: think of this idea of like, you know, Camelot as
Speaker 3: a as a concept is like the World of Warcraft.
Speaker 3: Wiki actually says that Arthur's is like the reverse king Arthur, right,
Speaker 3: And that's a really interesting thing to think about. Again,
Speaker 3: I can go full to hat to volhat and start
Speaker 3: talking about, you know, what that might mean and what
Speaker 3: they might do and all these different things. But you know,
Speaker 3: in my had it would be really cool if we
Speaker 3: log into the game and there's there's still the Kingdom
Speaker 3: of lord a on up. There'd be interesting.
Speaker 1: That's where I was going to go with this. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad you raised it so like we do. We
Speaker 1: we now get to be nerds and this is the
Speaker 1: fun part because we get to talk about law, gameplay, speculation,
Speaker 1: about what these guys have had a couple, you know,
Speaker 1: two to three years now to cook this thing up.
Speaker 1: If I were a grand and Tim and the whole
Speaker 1: crew and just had you know, virtually cute Blanche to
Speaker 1: cook up the next you know, classic timeline, you know,
Speaker 1: like we said, maybe it's got expansions and what not
Speaker 1: involved what would we do? And the concept of the
Speaker 1: alternate timeline has been discussed a fair bit. I mean,
Speaker 1: even the devs I think have have in the past
Speaker 1: when talking about SOD made mention of things like, you know,
Speaker 1: what do we do with the game? Do we do
Speaker 1: it like was an alternate timeline? Or do we do
Speaker 1: you know, the continuation of the law that we know?
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Who knows. It's a difficult thing to
Speaker 1: juggle with, you know, And they've I'm pretty sure I've
Speaker 1: seen in interviews they've said that they've in the past
Speaker 1: they've been hesitant to mess with the law because they
Speaker 1: don't really want to split off and make law nerds
Speaker 1: confused or whatnot. But I don't know. Now I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like thinking that they might just go hogwild and
Speaker 1: literally just go here is your alternate timeline where Arthur's
Speaker 1: never became the lich King, he did turn into the
Speaker 1: good King.
Speaker 2: Arthur.
Speaker 8: Oh well, I don't think you could do that, Okay, Yeah, No,
Speaker 8: I mean, I mean you could do whatever you want.
Speaker 1: Whether it's popular or not is another question. Tell me DC.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 8: Well, in regards to the name Camelot, I just feel that,
Speaker 8: like Wow is kind of their foundational game, and the
Speaker 8: legend of Camelot is kind of like the to like
Speaker 8: a lot of cultures is kind of like that found
Speaker 8: d kind of start of history, if you will. So
Speaker 8: I can see that just being like a clever kind
Speaker 8: of naming convention. I don't think you could do, you know,
Speaker 8: I think that one thing that we know about the
Speaker 8: Classic community is that we're very rigid and embedded in
Speaker 8: a lot of what is and don't like things changing.
Speaker 8: You know, the who could forget that We're the community
Speaker 8: that branded the whole like no changes mentality that did
Speaker 8: backfire in a lot of aspects of the game, but
Speaker 8: was you know, important in other aspects. So I wouldn't
Speaker 8: I mean, I could see you doing something like we
Speaker 8: have confrontations with the Lych King at level sixty, like
Speaker 8: there is like a proper invasion from North End that
Speaker 8: we beat back without beating Arthus. You could do stuff
Speaker 8: like that, but I don't think you could do something
Speaker 8: as monumental as making it so that Arthurs doesn't become
Speaker 8: the lych King, like literally the lych King, and Arthurs
Speaker 8: is like all of World of Warcraft.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the bedrock of the whole.
Speaker 8: Everything's interested in it because because we all got drug
Speaker 8: in with Frozen Throne and how epic and monumental that
Speaker 8: game was to a lot of our like formal years
Speaker 8: and then and then bridging us into World of Warcraft.
Speaker 8: So I don't think you could touch anything like that.
Speaker 1: That's like a sacred count unter of fair enough and
Speaker 1: vestige is raising the same point, like Warcraft three is
Speaker 1: something that is kind of the bedrock of the wild
Speaker 1: plot line. We don't mess with that, and I accept
Speaker 1: that that's fine. But you know, no bad ideas in
Speaker 1: a brainstorm, guys, except for that one that I just
Speaker 1: threw out. But no, how about this. Let's it's it's
Speaker 1: we're riffing, baby, we're playing jazz Let's extrapol eight. So
Speaker 1: let's all wield that one back and throw this one
Speaker 1: at your DC. All right, Let's let's not go as
Speaker 1: far as saying he that the lych King thing never happens.
Speaker 1: How about this what about an alternate timeline where the
Speaker 1: whole of Warcraft three plays out and he becomes lych King,
Speaker 1: but then we somehow still save him and redeem him,
Speaker 1: and the lich King becomes someone else, but we get
Speaker 1: Arthurs back.
Speaker 8: Well, here's the thing is that I don't really think
Speaker 8: you need to do alternate timeline stuff. I think you
Speaker 8: can just it like bloat out the time between us
Speaker 8: going to TBC canonically and like the original iterations of
Speaker 8: the game, like just kind of how like you know,
Speaker 8: currently in Star Wars they're just like.
Speaker 1: Oh, by the way, there was this Mandalorian.
Speaker 8: Show and this Ahsoka show and like all this stuff
Speaker 8: that happened in between like the two trilogies. You know,
Speaker 8: you could just have that be like an undefined amount
Speaker 8: of time. And that's why I was saying, like you
Speaker 8: could keep us at level sixty, but then have North
Speaker 8: End like invade Azarath or not as AZ's the fucking planet,
Speaker 8: but like have norther End like invade the Northern kingdoms
Speaker 8: and like Kalimdor, and that way we get exposure to
Speaker 8: things from like Wrath the lich King or you know,
Speaker 8: Burning Crusade, if you want to do that somehow but
Speaker 8: you keep us in the level sixty bracket and you
Speaker 8: keep us on the two main continents or whatever.
Speaker 7: I mean.
Speaker 8: You could even I guess you could do something like
Speaker 8: opening up like the beachfront in Northern End, because there
Speaker 8: are a couple like there are a couple like Frozen
Speaker 8: Throne missions where you kind of go to the beach
Speaker 8: of Northern End and you explore with like artists and stuff.
Speaker 8: So you could do some things like that where you're
Speaker 8: not pushing into like iccy and really like destabilizing the lore.
Speaker 8: You know, I would be okay with something like that
Speaker 8: where you are kind of bending the brackets and not
Speaker 8: snapping them in half fair enough. But yeah, I don't
Speaker 8: think you need to do alternate timeline stuff. You just
Speaker 8: you just elongate the period that in which Classic kind
Speaker 8: of exists.
Speaker 1: So you're saying the opening scene of Classic Plus should
Speaker 1: be somehow Palpatine returned.
Speaker 8: No, that's no, No, then you're going to the next trilogy.
Speaker 8: So like that's what you want to avoid.
Speaker 1: All right. Hey, if you want to stay in.
Speaker 8: Between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens, you want
Speaker 8: to stay in that pocket.
Speaker 1: Fair enough at to Blasta before you have to run
Speaker 1: off to write, I've got a milky for all your worse. Now. Look,
Speaker 1: someone just mentioned Daisy Graine just mentioned we do need
Speaker 1: to dive into this. On top of all of that,
Speaker 1: another thing came to light, which was the quote unquote
Speaker 1: laked timeline, right, tell us more about this bad way.
Speaker 3: So again, I don't know for sure that there is
Speaker 3: a roadmap, a product map. I should say that basically
Speaker 3: shows like a bunch of different things, like your current
Speaker 3: timelines for TBC and then Wrath Anniversary. But what's interesting
Speaker 3: is that there is also a camelot to mention on
Speaker 3: it that is slated for Q three of this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right where all Josh said it would launch, but sorry,
Speaker 1: game exactly.
Speaker 3: So what it would mean is like, you know, basically
Speaker 3: a two to three week lead after blizz Coln because
Speaker 3: Q three ends September thirty, so after that you're in
Speaker 3: Q four. They might have pushed it. The current people
Speaker 3: are saying that this roadmap came from twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: I don't know for sure if that's true. That's just
Speaker 3: what's being said. But if the if the the roadmap
Speaker 3: predates the leaks, then I mean it's pretty credible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely saw comments that some people were grumbling
Speaker 1: that was an old screenshot.
Speaker 3: Which you know, if that's true, then it's pretty much confirmed.
Speaker 1: But then I'm kind of like, if it was an
Speaker 1: old screenshot, we would have talked about it on the
Speaker 1: freaking show, like.
Speaker 3: What maybe right? But I mean, if you if you
Speaker 3: dropped this idea, if they're being like a World of
Speaker 3: Warcraft camelot and no real heart supporting evidence in the
Speaker 3: middle of twenty twenty five, who would listen my listeners?
Speaker 8: What that makes you speculate is like if they if
Speaker 8: they were well, because I guess so. Here's the things
Speaker 8: that immediately came to mind is that there was that
Speaker 8: video like not too long ago where like Holly Longdale
Speaker 8: is like starting to say something and then she gets interrupted, right,
Speaker 8: and it's like, oh my god, we want to say
Speaker 8: this thing but we can't. And you don't normally say
Speaker 8: things or even drop hints unless it's close. And if
Speaker 8: the blizz Con is like mid September, they could easily
Speaker 8: do a thing where they you know, launch it like
Speaker 8: two weeks later. They did that with sod where it
Speaker 8: was like, hey, we announced sad and then like you
Speaker 8: can go play it. Tomorrow or whatever, so it would
Speaker 8: kind of be in line with like the cadence of
Speaker 8: how they've been doing their announcements and releases. The question
Speaker 8: that came up into my mind based on that, though,
Speaker 8: is how much then do you think of the SOD
Speaker 8: DNA is in Amelot, Because that's a pretty quick turnaround
Speaker 8: considering that SOD was a little bit more than a
Speaker 8: year ago.
Speaker 1: Oh, I expect, I fully expect the positive sides of
Speaker 1: SOD to like, I don't expect it to be a
Speaker 1: replicant of SOD, but like they SOD was a test
Speaker 1: realm for a reason like that going rooms for example.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to go as far as
Speaker 1: saying necessarily the niche of what's going to be in there,
Speaker 1: but I'll generically say, if it worked in SOD and
Speaker 1: people mostly liked it, you're probably gonna see it in
Speaker 1: Classic Plus. Like my biggest example, even though I said
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get specific, but my biggest example is just
Speaker 1: the classes going like, oh, look we've got new tanks
Speaker 1: and new healers and stuff like that, Like people, well,
Speaker 1: oh really really liked that. People really liked that, So
Speaker 1: they're that's like, in my mind, one hundred percent going
Speaker 1: to be in Classic Class.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. I think if you're expecting to log
Speaker 3: into Classic Plus and press frost Bolt for three hundred hours,
Speaker 3: you might be disappointed.
Speaker 1: But you know, without getting too much into what's going
Speaker 1: to be in there, just you know this whole uh
Speaker 1: sorry on the timeline thing. I the program, I'm not
Speaker 1: like a big on this, but the program they used
Speaker 1: a blaster. I saw one comment about like, what what
Speaker 1: was it? It was not copilot or.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure exactly what it was built.
Speaker 1: Okay. I saw a comment that was like I believe
Speaker 1: this because of course Blizzard would use co pilot or
Speaker 1: something like that. Whatever the shitty program was that someone
Speaker 1: didn't like. But anyway, it was a you know, not
Speaker 1: the clearest of screenshots, but it was a thing. And like,
Speaker 1: to me, again, like this looks like it looked more
Speaker 1: than plausible enough. It looked to me professional enough, Like
Speaker 1: people who do fake leaks are normally not really on
Speaker 1: the up and up, and the leagues are pretty substandard
Speaker 1: when you're trying to create like a fake workslate like this,
Speaker 1: this one seemed legit to me. What do you think.
Speaker 3: Personally? I think that it's probably more likely to be
Speaker 3: real than not. Even if the timeline, like even if
Speaker 3: it came or was originally exposed after the Camelot leak,
Speaker 3: somebody may have just found it never posted it because like, oh,
Speaker 3: this just looks like a bunch of rubbish. But uh,
Speaker 3: I think the general like, I mean, the formatting of
Speaker 3: it looks like I say, it looks pretty professional. I
Speaker 3: think you're right in suggesting, like somebody who's going to
Speaker 3: create a leak, I mean these days, they're probably just
Speaker 3: going to fire up an EI and have it generate
Speaker 3: some image, yeah when it spit out something like that.
Speaker 3: But the other thing too, is like all of the
Speaker 3: other moving parts that surround this, this canalot drop in
Speaker 3: Q three are correct, So you know, if they if
Speaker 3: somebody did fake it, they've clearly done their homework. And
Speaker 3: that's also something that's interesting, Like the information is all
Speaker 3: accurate as far as we can see for things that
Speaker 3: we know that are confirmed.
Speaker 1: Well, we come back to my reference to self Lake
Speaker 1: season to blast and you know, I am you know
Speaker 1: where all you are living under a rock at this stage.
Speaker 1: There are way too many instances over the years, guys
Speaker 1: of Blizzard. You know stealthily getting their own information out
Speaker 1: there and like going the oh did I drop that? Whoopsie?
Speaker 1: You know, and things being bled out there that that
Speaker 1: you know, hint towards like TBC Classic coming out or
Speaker 1: Wrath Classic coming out or whatever it might be. You know,
Speaker 1: this screenshot coming out, I mean it's come from someone
Speaker 1: in the office. It's like this isn't just like this
Speaker 1: hasn't been stolen, you know what I mean? Like this
Speaker 1: this to me screams, Okay, this is Blizzard starting to
Speaker 1: do the Blizzard thing. The old self lake season has started.
Speaker 1: Do you get the same impression to blast on?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so. It's you know, that's stealth marketing.
Speaker 3: It's a real thing, and yeah, plenty of people will
Speaker 3: do it, especially in like the gaming community, posting cryptic
Speaker 3: messages or you know, releasing things or even just exposing
Speaker 3: things that can be data. Mind. It's like they just
Speaker 3: know for a fact that you know, if people like
Speaker 3: me that are like nerdy enough to get a hold
Speaker 3: of it, we'll just post it on some form and
Speaker 3: everyone will take it and run hogwild with it. And
Speaker 3: that's free advertisement for them. It proal frates itself. They
Speaker 3: don't have to pay for it, and we just get
Speaker 3: to sit here on the Countdown podcast and talk about
Speaker 3: it for an hour exactly. You know, this is all
Speaker 3: free ad revenue for them. They don't have to do anything.
Speaker 3: We're just here, you know them.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. They know that this is all part
Speaker 1: of the plan, you know what I mean. They know
Speaker 1: content creators will run this like they dropped that that
Speaker 1: timetable going. Of course, fucking Josh is going to talk
Speaker 1: about this for three hours. Of course, you know Zau's
Speaker 1: going to stream about it like this is all like premeditated.
Speaker 8: When you keep your computer Earlier, I said that the
Speaker 8: timing was perfect. If you think that Blazicon's going to
Speaker 8: happen mid September, then we're like exactly three months out,
Speaker 8: and this would be the time that you'd want the
Speaker 8: rumors to be swirling and generating all the hype they've
Speaker 8: I think it makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: They've normally done it a little bit closer.
Speaker 8: Drop on Monday is like the day that they're in
Speaker 8: the office.
Speaker 1: Right, they normally do it. I think traditionally it's been
Speaker 1: like about two to three weeks out from Bliscon where
Speaker 1: they do the old woop see did I drop that?
Speaker 1: So this is a little bit early, but if it's
Speaker 1: a bigger project, maybe you go a big guiti line.
Speaker 8: I feel like the two to three week leaks are
Speaker 8: usually way more substantstantial. They usually like have the specific
Speaker 8: like expansion name and stuff, and like there's usually like
Speaker 8: a big list of like what the new race is
Speaker 8: going to be and stuff like that. So for this
Speaker 8: to be like a build or something like that, that's
Speaker 8: got to be like data. Mind, the the style of
Speaker 8: the leak makes sense for like how far we are
Speaker 8: out as well, if it's intentional, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like it's such a bread cruss.
Speaker 8: It's it's a bread crumb, right, but it's like a very,
Speaker 8: it's a very, like it's got a strong scent on it,
Speaker 8: kind of a bread cross.
Speaker 1: Tasty bread crust.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we can. We can speculate about some things
Speaker 3: that are are logically the most likely, but we don't
Speaker 3: really know anything. That's the key thing to remember is
Speaker 3: like this is this is all still speculation, but it does.
Speaker 3: It's it's another plot on the graft pointing at a thing. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's the old the you know, it's.
Speaker 1: The old and Murphy joke of like, you know, you
Speaker 1: give his starving man a crack off and he's like, God, damn,
Speaker 1: is this cracker I've ever had? What was that? A soul? Like,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so tasty. And that's what we're
Speaker 1: like with information for classic flawers. So it's all good.
Speaker 1: Look guys at de Blaster, you've been amazing on this, mate.
Speaker 1: Is there anything we've left off the table that we
Speaker 1: should discuss?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. But if I find anything else, Josh,
Speaker 3: I'll just fire it over to you or post it
Speaker 3: in that.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, mate, I was. I was captivated. I really am
Speaker 1: not blowing smoke up your ass. That was one of
Speaker 1: the more interesting hours of countdown. I was on the
Speaker 1: edge of my seat. Thank you for that, guys. Look,
Speaker 1: given all that alter antig Sorry mate, what was that?
Speaker 1: What if?
Speaker 5: Camelot isn't a name supposed to denote what's happening, but
Speaker 5: it's supposed to denote when it's happening, and we are
Speaker 5: all expected wrath Rath is after the leech king? Who
Speaker 5: is artist king Arthur arthurs Camelot timeline like we're expecting
Speaker 5: an avanba drop. Why would they be dropping it if
Speaker 5: they're having twenty twenty seven. What if it's a nickname,
Speaker 5: and so we don't get Wrath Classic, we get Classic Plus.
Speaker 5: Wrath Classic never happens, and it's because that's when people
Speaker 5: are expecting Wrath Classic to kind of happen, based on
Speaker 5: how long we're seeing in the current phase.
Speaker 1: Well, interestingly, on that note, because everyone is trying to
Speaker 1: sort of win the game of will they won't they
Speaker 1: do both? I believe to Blasto will correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. Wrath Anniversary was on the timeline as dropping
Speaker 1: about three four months after Camelot, Isn't that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It was on I think it was for Q
Speaker 3: one of twenty seven yea, which would make sense, right
Speaker 3: because it's like, you know, maybe everybody gets their fill
Speaker 3: of three four months to Classic Plus and then it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, you start to lull. I don't know if
Speaker 3: they'll have some kind of new endgame, horizontal whatever, whatever,
Speaker 3: we're really not talking about that. I'm sure we could
Speaker 3: go for another five hours on it, but you know,
Speaker 3: assuming that it's the same and people are raid logging
Speaker 3: Classic Plus, we'll just leave it at that assumption. Then,
Speaker 3: you know, as it lolls it's like, you know, maybe
Speaker 3: maybe it'll be fun to play Rath for a few months. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you work on more content, not.
Speaker 1: To not to filate myself on screen too much. But
Speaker 1: you know, again exactly as I said on the last podcast.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Anti, what do you think of that? Does
Speaker 1: that make sense to you? Drop a cheeky wrath and I.
Speaker 5: Think I think that kind of makes sense. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I just think that the whole Camelot thing, they always
Speaker 5: name things like everything is named for a reason. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and it seems like, you know, it's got something to
Speaker 5: do with it, and you hate to say it, but
Speaker 5: King Arthur, King Arthur's they do have a similar kind
Speaker 5: of name. Could kind of go well, that does link
Speaker 5: all together pretty hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone's on the Arthur's train. Sorry, sorry to Blast.
Speaker 3: They both have a mentor named UTHERU.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, Everyone's on the Arthur's train. I
Speaker 1: think that's a fun little thing. How about you other
Speaker 1: guys that we haven't heard from as much anything else
Speaker 1: on this Camelot thing? Does it? Does Camelot get your
Speaker 1: brain yacked?
Speaker 10: Is?
Speaker 1: Does the code name Camelot but make you think we're
Speaker 1: getting a certain product or story or timeline or not
Speaker 1: you haven't gone there yet.
Speaker 11: Haven't gone there yet?
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough sci fi? What about you?
Speaker 7: I'm just looking at the timeline. It says Camelot season
Speaker 7: two on there as well? Does it? What do we
Speaker 7: make of that?
Speaker 1: Was that on there? To blast Us season two? I
Speaker 1: don't remember seeing that.
Speaker 3: Let me have a look. I don't have it burnt
Speaker 3: into my brain quite yet.
Speaker 8: Wouldn't it just be the next phase of the you know,
Speaker 8: it's like multicorps blacking layer or different seasons technically or
Speaker 8: phases or whatever.
Speaker 1: Not If it says season two at launch.
Speaker 3: Where are you seeing season two?
Speaker 7: Maybe I'm looking at a different one. It's the back
Speaker 7: end of twenty eight?
Speaker 1: Oh there you go? Are you drunk?
Speaker 7: Me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, only mildly so, at the back end of twenty
Speaker 1: eight on that timeline and saying Camelot season two?
Speaker 3: Is it.
Speaker 7: On the one I'm looking at? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, where we posted? Just in the general chat, I'll
Speaker 3: just post a quick image for reference there. I don't
Speaker 3: see it on there.
Speaker 1: Let's have a look here we go to blaster is
Speaker 1: just yeah, this is the one I've seen. Blah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: where are you seeing? Season two? You is this the
Speaker 1: one that you're drawing up yourself in pain.
Speaker 7: Now I'm looking at it on YouTube, Cago Cago Gaming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you go for it.
Speaker 7: Maybe you got Can I steal the blaster for the raid?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I am done. I am done with him. Now
Speaker 1: to blaster. Please go to your raid. Have a good time, mate,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Yeah in the worries, let me know if you want
Speaker 3: to talk some more. Happy to thy craft whatever?
Speaker 1: Too easy? Thanks mane Sorry Stan, Oh, you're good, You're good,
Speaker 1: all right. We don't want to We don't want to
Speaker 1: muck around with the old countdown raid. Speaking of raids,
Speaker 1: Antie and Yak, can you give us an update on
Speaker 1: all the asses you're kicking in names that you're taking
Speaker 1: in the Saturday rad group. What's going on? What's the
Speaker 1: latest update?
Speaker 11: For the first time, Saturday I Raid did both SEC
Speaker 11: and TK in three and a half hours last week.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 1: Everyone was happy one day and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we h.
Speaker 11: This was the first time Saturday is done like TK
Speaker 11: as a group, we were running with Stan on Sundays,
Speaker 11: but now that we're doing it in one night, it
Speaker 11: was pretty great. We had two wipes. We wiped on
Speaker 11: like trash immediately in TK and once on KT and
Speaker 11: that was it. It's super super clean, a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Anti even happy.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, having a great time. Yeah no, it just
Speaker 5: went so smoothed last week. And the teams will work
Speaker 5: really well together. Just you know, it's like sweaty under
Speaker 5: the collar, which is exactly how you kind of set
Speaker 5: it up today.
Speaker 1: There's an unspoken agreement of of of sweatiness, is there?
Speaker 1: How then you guys fitting in YAG.
Speaker 11: Really really well. I mean we did a lot of.
Speaker 3: Quite a bit of.
Speaker 11: Trialing with them before inviting them to guild. We would
Speaker 11: do heroics or even just kind of like inviting them
Speaker 11: to a Phase one rage just to see if the
Speaker 11: vibes would be right. But everybody's fitting pretty pretty well.
Speaker 11: There's no h no loot goblins. Everybody's just kind of
Speaker 11: fitting in seamlessly.
Speaker 1: That's awesome to hear. Thanks for posting that. Sci Fi.
Speaker 1: I'm just I've I've not seen this screenshot that you've
Speaker 1: just posted. This is really weird because like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: are they have Classic and Camelot on Yeah, now it's
Speaker 1: called Camelot and Class six plus under like the Classic launchers,
Speaker 1: but like.
Speaker 8: Also on the far left, it says Era slash Camelot.
Speaker 1: Yeah I can I no, no, no, So it says
Speaker 1: Aero slash Camelot on the first one as well, Yeah, wish.
Speaker 1: The weird part is the first screenshot, the one that
Speaker 1: everyone's been relying on, only has Camelot on the timeline
Speaker 1: going through to twenty thirty right. The second screenshot that
Speaker 1: you've just sent through has heaps of stuff on that timeline.
Speaker 1: It's got Camelot Classic plus, Camelot Season two Classic plus expansion.
Speaker 2: Is.
Speaker 1: My only thought is I don't know if this is
Speaker 1: the case, but because I've over the last week, I've
Speaker 1: not seen this screenshot. Has someone taken the ball and
Speaker 1: run with it and created a fake screenshot out of
Speaker 1: the first potential fake slash real screenshot? I don't know.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't be the first time I've fallen victim to
Speaker 7: some I'm trying to information.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 7: Though?
Speaker 1: Because that is there is a stark difference between the two.
Speaker 7: The second that was very confusing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is literally the first time I've ever seen
Speaker 1: this screenshot that you've just sent through. So I'm just
Speaker 1: sort of reacting in the moment. My gut is saying
Speaker 1: some joker is trying to fill in the gaps and
Speaker 1: create their own story.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 8: Well, based on the first screen shot. And this is
Speaker 8: the first time I've ever seen this, so I didn't
Speaker 8: bring it up or nobody else brought it up earlier.
Speaker 8: But seeing Camelot and Era on the same kind of line,
Speaker 8: there's a little sus.
Speaker 1: Yes, now I think someone's tried to again.
Speaker 8: You know, But I mean that's in the first screenshot
Speaker 8: that blastomlynked as well. Yeah, in the box that says
Speaker 8: it says Classic slash Camelot, it's at the bottom it
Speaker 8: says Era slash Camelot is the line, and then you
Speaker 8: know there's the Camelot dot on it.
Speaker 1: But that makes sense.
Speaker 8: That would you think then maybe maybe Camelot is more
Speaker 8: of like an Era type project than.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. That makes sense to me because it's
Speaker 1: not on the main timeline. So they've got the one
Speaker 1: line on top in the classic section. They've got the
Speaker 1: top timeline called Progression Brackets Expansions, which is the classic
Speaker 1: timeline that they're on. The anniversaries, the mops, the whatever's right,
Speaker 1: and then they're creating a new separate timeline with you know,
Speaker 1: a new Classic plus story. So that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: I don't think, oh, that's an ERA thing. I think
Speaker 1: that's Classic plus that. But that's just me, right, that
Speaker 1: makes sense, Okay.
Speaker 8: I would say that there's more doubt now, okay from
Speaker 8: my perspective, because you know, like Era, would it beyond
Speaker 8: the progression expansions because Era is like this kind of
Speaker 8: thing right where you can like drop characters that are
Speaker 8: in the top line into it. It kind of exists,
Speaker 8: and it's like own unique because it was like the
Speaker 8: first time that they booted up Classic and then everything
Speaker 8: else is like this like offshoot fresh. So that would
Speaker 8: make me think that like maybe now Camelot could be
Speaker 8: some kind of thing that they're doing with Era. Maybe
Speaker 8: they're trying to do like what you said, like legitimize
Speaker 8: it a little bit more by making it you know,
Speaker 8: I don't know, but I would say, you know, I
Speaker 8: it just shows a little bit of doubt. The second
Speaker 8: one is a blatant especially as the residence Classic Plus.
Speaker 8: The second one is a blatant fake, like this is
Speaker 8: no I'm not looking at the second one.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I get that. Sorry, I'm just adding
Speaker 1: on now that. I look more at the second one,
Speaker 1: like this is such a weird thing to say, but
Speaker 1: like the vertical lines are in different positions and everything,
Speaker 1: like this is some fuck we're trying to extrap light.
Speaker 8: On the The text is also pretty weird looking, which
Speaker 8: makes me think that it was like AI and and
Speaker 8: maybe they had to like adjust it.
Speaker 1: And remember AI is like really bad.
Speaker 8: At doing text.
Speaker 1: Remember how we said I said at the start, Wow,
Speaker 1: fans tend to do bad fakes. This is this is
Speaker 1: the bad fake.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we got here them in chat saying confirmed AI reload.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, someone in the Classic Plus debunk I can't
Speaker 1: remember who what I would doubt someone from Blizzard has
Speaker 1: come out and said that's not that's fake, but I
Speaker 1: mean whatever, anyway, it just looks and smells fake. It's bullshit.
Speaker 1: But the first one I'm still on board as being
Speaker 1: likely real.
Speaker 8: Which something they got leaked?
Speaker 1: Yeah something well yeah, quote unquote leaked. All right, very good, guys.
Speaker 1: Let me think what more can we really say on
Speaker 1: the topic. I mean, is there anything else Classic Plus
Speaker 1: related that you guys have been chatting up at DC.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with the
Speaker 1: countdown discord chat on Classic Plus over the last month
Speaker 1: or so. But the guys have just absolutely been going
Speaker 1: off the every day or wake up with a boatload
Speaker 1: of new chat of all the guys speculating on what
Speaker 1: could and could not be in the next iteration of
Speaker 1: Classic Have you pump me?
Speaker 8: I check it every now and then, but not not
Speaker 8: super frequently.
Speaker 1: Have your thoughts developed a lot over the last month
Speaker 1: or two as to what this thing could be? Uh?
Speaker 8: Well, this is kind of the first that anything has
Speaker 8: like really been on my radar. You know, I just
Speaker 8: have like a deeply, deeply low trust value of Blizzard.
Speaker 8: So even all the debating and stuff that they've been
Speaker 8: doing over the past couple of months, you know, I'm
Speaker 8: still in disp I'd rather just be like, you know,
Speaker 8: if it drops and it's real, then okay, cool, I'm
Speaker 8: a believer. But until then, you know, I just have
Speaker 8: this you know, hesitancy to believe any of the stuff.
Speaker 1: That they do.
Speaker 8: And so I would say that this is a you
Speaker 8: know again, and I was I was seeding the benefit
Speaker 8: of the doubt earlier to blast it. When I was
Speaker 8: saying that the time of it and the amount of
Speaker 8: information and the type of leak that it is, you know,
Speaker 8: within almost exactly three months of Blue Condumn. Like this seems,
Speaker 8: you know, the opposite of fishy. You know, it seems
Speaker 8: very deliberate, as if they are kind of priming the community,
Speaker 8: which would be smart. So, you know, I'm definitely more
Speaker 8: in the camp of like it seems like they've they
Speaker 8: are going to release something that they've been cooking and
Speaker 8: it could be Classic related, and if they were smart,
Speaker 8: it would be Classic Plus. I don't know how much
Speaker 8: longer they could draw out the Classic Plus hype at
Speaker 8: this point.
Speaker 1: I just as far as like what it could be,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 8: You know, I still kind of believe that they shot
Speaker 8: themselves in the foot with SOD by doing like a
Speaker 8: half assed version of Classic Plus, because I feel like,
Speaker 8: now whatever product that they come out with, it will
Speaker 8: it can only be unfavorably compared to SOD based on
Speaker 8: what it has or doesn't have, or you know, because
Speaker 8: like SOD to me was like a great version of
Speaker 8: Classic Plus. You know, I could ride off into this
Speaker 8: on set with my Wow career and you know, having
Speaker 8: ended on SOD and be pretty happy.
Speaker 1: But there are also people on that, so you're saying,
Speaker 1: had they just come out and called Sawed Classic plus
Speaker 1: and done that for two years, you would have been like,
Speaker 1: well they did it classic plus. I loved it. We're
Speaker 1: done well that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's my current mindset. I'm like, look, SOD
Speaker 8: for me was classic plus. It wasn't exactly what I wanted,
Speaker 8: but it was what I wanted in a lot of
Speaker 8: other ways, so you know, you kind of split the difference.
Speaker 8: And I was really happy with it. I got a
Speaker 8: lot of things accomplished. I got to, you know, relive
Speaker 8: high school for lack of the better you know term
Speaker 8: that we all fantasized about, right, and I was I
Speaker 8: went to prom and smashed the cheerleaders and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So it was great for me.
Speaker 8: And yeah, now I just feel like, well, whatever happens
Speaker 8: with real Classic plus or whatever it's, you know, for me,
Speaker 8: it's like, I don't know, are you going to be
Speaker 8: able to top SOD. I know that there are a
Speaker 8: lot of things that people liked about side that a
Speaker 8: lot of other people didn't. There were a lot of
Speaker 8: signals that they got inside that might make them rethink
Speaker 8: a lot of things. And that's why I was bringing
Speaker 8: up earlier that given the cadence of when they might
Speaker 8: release this, it would then lead me to believe that
Speaker 8: they're going to use a lot of the SOD DNA,
Speaker 8: because in my opinion.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty quick turnaround.
Speaker 8: I think we're like less than two years of like
Speaker 8: SOD ending, and they'd be coming out with this Camelot thing,
Speaker 8: which means that I would think that they would have
Speaker 8: built off a lot of what SOD was rather than
Speaker 8: developing something new from scratch, which means that there might
Speaker 8: be a lot of DNA in it, which to someone
Speaker 8: like me could be really cool, but it would also
Speaker 8: depend on what they did or didn't include, and then
Speaker 8: for other people would be like really bad because I
Speaker 8: know a lot of people didn't like the rum thing,
Speaker 8: and you know, to your point earlier about people liking
Speaker 8: the new class roles and stuff, it's like a lot
Speaker 8: of that was enabled by Runes. You know, demon Form
Speaker 8: for Warlocks was a ruin.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a talent. My side expectation is simply just
Speaker 1: I've said it a few times now. I just think
Speaker 1: for them, for the most part, getting not all the way,
Speaker 1: but most of the way SOD style gameplay, they total
Speaker 1: well slash Apok style world. That's the combo I think
Speaker 1: is coming outway.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I don't have any issue with that.
Speaker 8: My my sticking point with the runes is like I
Speaker 8: think people really underlook how much customization and kind of
Speaker 8: niche things that the ruins allowed you to do, because
Speaker 8: all the runes kind of occupied a different function in
Speaker 8: their gear slot, and you could combine them in different
Speaker 8: ways to like really enable your character to do. You know,
Speaker 8: like if you were going to raid, you pretty much
Speaker 8: have like a cookie cutter rune build that you were
Speaker 8: going to use, but outside of rating, you could really
Speaker 8: mix and match, like tanking ruins on your gloves and
Speaker 8: DPS rooms on your belt or whatever, and you can
Speaker 8: make your character in this kind of like Frankenstein way.
Speaker 8: They could do content that it wasn't ever enabled to
Speaker 8: do before. And I just don't see you being able
Speaker 8: to recapture that gameplay if you make it talents, yeah,
Speaker 8: I don't some other.
Speaker 1: Kind of I don't expects. I don't expect to see
Speaker 1: ruins or if we do at a drastically reduced scale.
Speaker 8: Well that yeah, That's what I'm saying is like I
Speaker 8: think they might be missing something they might be missing
Speaker 8: out on something pretty cool that they had with Runs
Speaker 8: if they don't go through it again. So what you said, well,
Speaker 8: you mentioned that, yeah, because like you said that, we
Speaker 8: might get like more SOD style gameplay with you know,
Speaker 8: like a turtle while philosophy behind the content. And it's like,
Speaker 8: I don't think you can achieve the SOD style gameplay
Speaker 8: without the ruins if you just give people talents and
Speaker 8: stuff like that, unless you you kind of do like
Speaker 8: a more like retail as or not retail ass but
Speaker 8: kind of like Cataclysm version style of talents where you
Speaker 8: have had like rows and you kind of pick things
Speaker 8: that are like keystones and defined. So I don't know,
Speaker 8: you know, this is what I mean by they shut
Speaker 8: themselves in the foot. They have to really thread a
Speaker 8: needle that is going to be pretty hard in terms
Speaker 8: of like what system they want to implement to give
Speaker 8: people that experience again or a brand new experience, you know.
Speaker 8: And then also, while you know, adhering to the rigidity
Speaker 8: that we've mentioned before that classic players are kind of
Speaker 8: stubbornly beholden too, So it's a it's a fucking moonshot man,
Speaker 8: And that that's why I think that like they would
Speaker 8: have been better off just not doing sod almost or
Speaker 8: just branding sod is classes and going off of that,
Speaker 8: because I just I just think that like comparison is
Speaker 8: the thief of joy, right, So you know, but I I,
Speaker 8: you know, I wish them the best, Like I'd like
Speaker 8: for it to be a product that's so enticing that
Speaker 8: you know, it makes me want to play it again.
Speaker 1: I think it will be everyone's dying to say what
Speaker 1: they've done. Obviously with the classes, that'll be the first
Speaker 1: thing when they step out on stage of bleiz Con.
Speaker 1: The first thing people will want to draw or extract
Speaker 1: from the people on stage are just tell us about
Speaker 1: the classes. What classes are we getting and how are
Speaker 1: they going to play? Tell us, tell us, tell us,
Speaker 1: because we all expect them, like, you know, them coming
Speaker 1: out on stage and going, hey, guys, we're doing classic
Speaker 1: plus in as the roth Baby, no outlands, no North
Speaker 1: rand lets. The world's the main character as they're off
Speaker 1: and look what we've done. He's you know, eleven hundred
Speaker 1: new quests through the world. He's new raids. We're gonna
Speaker 1: be like yay and no shit, no fucking shit, talk
Speaker 1: about the classts you know what I mean, I expect
Speaker 1: I don't know if they share that sentiment.
Speaker 8: And also I don't want to like dominate the conversation
Speaker 8: by the way, so fety.
Speaker 1: You're okay, they're all sleep, They're all asleep, it's you
Speaker 1: and maybe okay.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I think the big letdown with SOD
Speaker 8: was that they really didn't do enough with the world,
Speaker 8: because I personally would have been this is what I
Speaker 8: mean by like, they did some things I liked and
Speaker 8: then some things that I didn't, And you know, just
Speaker 8: the things that they did end up doing I liked
Speaker 8: a lot, so it kind of made up for it.
Speaker 8: But you know, I would have been happy with just
Speaker 8: vanilla classes in SOD and them opening up the zones
Speaker 8: that we've wanted to see for fucking twenty plus years.
Speaker 8: Hydraul Emerald dream uh you know, old old hum or
Speaker 8: whatever in still athis all those zone ozones that you know,
Speaker 8: have been untouched that we that have been sitting there
Speaker 8: and you can like exploit to them and stuff.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 8: One that they did do was like the Karazan dungeons,
Speaker 8: right or whatever, the Karazan basement crips. So that yeah,
Speaker 8: the crips, and then they they followed through on like
Speaker 8: the Scarlet Enclave and stuff like that, which was really
Speaker 8: cool as well, and those were like big highlights, but
Speaker 8: other than that, the world was very much static with
Speaker 8: what we normally see in vanilla. So I've always thought
Speaker 8: that that is kind of the heart and soul of
Speaker 8: like what a classic plus is is broadening these these
Speaker 8: areas of the world that are untapped, and that everyone
Speaker 8: loves the vanilla classes, regardless of how boring they are.
Speaker 8: I mean, like, I don't think anybody wants to press
Speaker 8: prossipal for three thousand hours, but you know you'll fucking
Speaker 8: happily do it if you can do it in hydraw
Speaker 8: instead of you know.
Speaker 1: Multiple or whatever. To be honest with you, and we've
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot on the show, I think
Speaker 1: whilst there is a class of game out that one
Speaker 1: hundred percent agrees with you on that DC from the
Speaker 1: vibe check I've gotten over the last year or two
Speaker 1: is that the majority of classic players in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: six disagree only to the extent that they like, just
Speaker 1: give me one or two extra fucking buttons, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean?
Speaker 8: Yeah, for sure, But I think that if it was
Speaker 8: like gun to your head, you can play the new
Speaker 8: zones with classic you know toolkits, or you don't play
Speaker 8: it at all. I think, you know, oh yes, like
Speaker 8: the shut of Yeah, if everyone's going to do it right,
Speaker 8: that's a terrible Ideally they you know, and then again,
Speaker 8: this is the needle that they have to thread. Ideally,
Speaker 8: they can do both in a way that appeass and
Speaker 8: doesn't alienate the classic player base.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of gonna be.
Speaker 3: The you know.
Speaker 8: And I wish more people had played SOD because I
Speaker 8: do agree with you that I think there would be
Speaker 8: more converts of this twenty twenty six player that you're
Speaker 8: saying they would want a couple extra buttons, because the
Speaker 8: classes in SODE were really I mean, like I only
Speaker 8: played one class, but like, holy fuck, it was so
Speaker 8: good and really broadened, you know, your perception of the
Speaker 8: fun that you are missing out on by not having
Speaker 8: in these just couple extra buttons that add a lot
Speaker 8: of dynamism to your class that isn't inherently there in
Speaker 8: the vanilla kit. So, you know, I hope that they
Speaker 8: can make a good case for that if they do
Speaker 8: open up a lot of stuff and they do open
Speaker 8: up new roles and things like that, because I do
Speaker 8: think that that was a well, I mean, like the
Speaker 8: tanking issue is like a little weird because you know
Speaker 8: a lot of the tanks that they introduced in the
Speaker 8: other classes ended up being like evasion tanks, where they're
Speaker 8: not like they're not tanks that are like relying on
Speaker 8: blocking and armor. And then those tanks scale really detrimentally
Speaker 8: into the late game, and detrimentally in the way that
Speaker 8: it's like you have to nerve the content in a
Speaker 8: way that's kind of unnatural because you can get like
Speaker 8: one hundred percent dodge or whatever really easily, and then
Speaker 8: it trivializes the tanking aspect of the game.
Speaker 1: So can I throw a question at you for Chad? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so long time listener and contribute to John says the following,
Speaker 1: and I'll just act like, I guess it is directed
Speaker 1: to you because it picks up of what you were saying.
Speaker 1: He goes, you know, besides new zones, how do you
Speaker 1: keep the world alive after people explore it? It gets old.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they are Parisians who are tired of the
Speaker 1: Eiffel Tower. So, like, what would you do personally DC
Speaker 1: to reinvigorate the world and make it alive, so to speak.
Speaker 8: You know, I don't know if I can give a
Speaker 8: very compelling answer, just off the top of my head,
Speaker 8: I feel that.
Speaker 1: So this is something.
Speaker 8: I don't know how much this will relate, but I
Speaker 8: think as long as you preserve that Classic is as
Speaker 8: much you get out of Classic, like what you put
Speaker 8: into it. And what I mean by that is when
Speaker 8: I played, I followed my guild after SOD ended, they
Speaker 8: all went to MOP Classic and I never played MOP before,
Speaker 8: so I decided to try it.
Speaker 1: With them, and I, you know, I quit after like
Speaker 1: a month or something. And the reason that I did
Speaker 1: was because.
Speaker 8: MOP levels out how much people can get out of
Speaker 8: the game. And what I mean by that is when
Speaker 8: you can just queue up for a dungeon and just
Speaker 8: grind heroics and stuff like that and get gear, you
Speaker 8: lose that not only like time advantage that you might
Speaker 8: have for like the amount of free time that you
Speaker 8: might have to play the game, but also the the
Speaker 8: willingness and motivation that you have to get things accomplished
Speaker 8: on your own time. So like for example, and Classic,
Speaker 8: like if you want to run a dungeon, you either
Speaker 8: have to find a group or make a group, and
Speaker 8: that takes time. You have to you know, read the
Speaker 8: general chat. You have to schmooze with different people. You
Speaker 8: have to try and find a tank, you have to
Speaker 8: try and find a healer. You have to try and
Speaker 8: get everyone to the dungeon. And when you do get there,
Speaker 8: that's because you fucking put energy out of your body
Speaker 8: and into the game per se.
Speaker 1: But when you just have these menus that let you
Speaker 1: do that, right you Who's that like kind.
Speaker 8: Of inherent social advantage or you know, I don't know
Speaker 8: exactly like what you would quantify it as, but I
Speaker 8: think that that's something that like makes the world always
Speaker 8: be alive. Is that as long as you make everything
Speaker 8: beholden to like the player's investment, that it will retain
Speaker 8: that attraction.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you, I'll give you. You keep going up. Okay, Yeah, Like.
Speaker 8: One thing I always think of is that like as
Speaker 8: a as a rogue player, I needed a hand of justice,
Speaker 8: and you know, you you can solo farm it as
Speaker 8: a rogue. You can go in, you can stealth run BRD,
Speaker 8: and you can solo anger forge with this like weird
Speaker 8: thing that you do where you like are on the
Speaker 8: rafters and you shoot them a bunch of times that arrow,
Speaker 8: and you like tide them in this like weird fucking way,
Speaker 8: and you know, if you just keep at it, you'll
Speaker 8: eventually get a hand of justice without having to like
Speaker 8: coordinate these groups where your hard res it or try
Speaker 8: and find people they like also don't want it or
Speaker 8: like any of this stuff. And it's like when you
Speaker 8: get it, when I finally kill that anger for as
Speaker 8: it drops my hand of justice, I feel great, even
Speaker 8: if it took like eight or nine or ten hours
Speaker 8: or whatever, because you know that only happened because I
Speaker 8: was willing to do it every single time.
Speaker 1: And that's totally different. When you just have a menu
Speaker 1: that you can like queue into and you just run
Speaker 1: it and run it and run it and run it.
Speaker 8: It's gonna drop a bunch of times because Blizzard is
Speaker 8: like generous with the drop rates, and you'll eventually get
Speaker 8: a group where you either win it or you don't.
Speaker 8: No one else is competing with it or whatever. Right,
Speaker 8: and so there is that that friction, right we always
Speaker 8: come back to, like Classic has this friction. I like
Speaker 8: that kind of friction because it's rewarding it like it
Speaker 8: provides tangibility to like what I do inside the game
Speaker 8: in a way that I find very gratifying. And when
Speaker 8: you stand my character up to another person's character, you
Speaker 8: can see how much work we put into it based
Speaker 8: on like the items that we have and things of
Speaker 8: that nature. So I think that's what keeps the world alive.
Speaker 8: And as long as you have those items that are
Speaker 8: kind of chase or character defining or role define and
Speaker 8: you know that that carrot on a stick kind of exists,
Speaker 8: and people are motivated to uh you know. I had
Speaker 8: the same thing with fell Striker, where where Fell Striker
Speaker 8: was really good and saw it and you kind of
Speaker 8: really needed to get one, and it had me, you know,
Speaker 8: joining tons of UBRS groups and then I would I
Speaker 8: would join groups that didn't have other rogues in it,
Speaker 8: and I wouldn't hard reserve it or tell people that
Speaker 8: they couldn't invite rogues, but then I would kind of
Speaker 8: commandeer the group and start I would start looking for
Speaker 8: people to fill the group for the person that started it,
Speaker 8: and I would just make sure that I didn't take
Speaker 8: any rogues or anything like that. So I would just
Speaker 8: kind of like sneakily manipulate the group composition behind the
Speaker 8: scenes and look like I'm just being a buddy and
Speaker 8: like helping fill the group, but really I have like
Speaker 8: nefarious intentions. So that's the kind of stuff that like
Speaker 8: keeps World of Warcraft like very engaging.
Speaker 1: And I think as long as ahead, let me tell
Speaker 1: you a couple of specific things I might start wing
Speaker 1: John and I am. I am not the good idea guy.
Speaker 1: I have shit takes. So I'm sure one of these
Speaker 1: two things is a terrible take that you would be
Speaker 1: more than warranted to eviserate me on. I I do
Speaker 1: like more rares out there in the world, and you
Speaker 1: can make the argument that that takes away from the
Speaker 1: classification of rare if there's more of them out there.
Speaker 1: But the one thing I really like about modern MMOs is,
Speaker 1: you know, relatively frequently stumbling upon that, Hey, there's a
Speaker 1: rare down the road, and I'll try and you know,
Speaker 1: see if I get some form of half decent loot
Speaker 1: from it, that I can you know, not a not
Speaker 1: a world boss, just a soluble rare. I think that's
Speaker 1: an easy layup on, Like, you know, have rares that
Speaker 1: might drop really cool shit that don't they're not spawning
Speaker 1: every twelve hours. They might spawn once every hour I
Speaker 1: don't know, and have people re engage with the world
Speaker 1: to try and chase items like that. Another thing is like, again,
Speaker 1: you're just trying to spice up the world. World Bosses
Speaker 1: needs to be addressed, and like this is the moment
Speaker 1: where you can say, I've got a really shit take.
Speaker 1: I would do World Bosses where, like you, we've got
Speaker 1: to figure out the sort of griefing issue, like everyone
Speaker 1: agrees we don't want to serve. Where just that one
Speaker 1: really sweaty guild owns the world Bosses and it's just
Speaker 1: pack up and go home everyone else. It's that content
Speaker 1: does not exist for you. It's not overly fun. And
Speaker 1: I know the answer is get good scrub, but fucking whatever.
Speaker 1: I really like the concept of, you know, again, just
Speaker 1: like give people a role, give them a chance, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, if you had the big bad world boss
Speaker 1: that you have, you know, ten raid groups hammering. That
Speaker 1: looks really cool to me. And I think that that
Speaker 1: again invites social behavior and whatnot, and you could do that.
Speaker 1: You could do the thing where I don't know, you've
Speaker 1: got to be in a raid group to get a
Speaker 1: chance at you know, looting the thing obviously, and like,
Speaker 1: but like every raid group that tags the boss will
Speaker 1: get loot to roll off on. There's a right way
Speaker 1: and a wrong way to do it. But I'm just
Speaker 1: saying open things up rather than closing them off. That
Speaker 1: that's one suggestion of mine to you know, making the
Speaker 1: world seem quote unquote alive. DC. I mean, I'm more
Speaker 1: than happy for you to tell me that's a fucking
Speaker 1: terrible suggestion.
Speaker 8: Tell me what you think, well, I have like pretty
Speaker 8: nuanced opinions on world like world content like this, like
Speaker 8: responsor so I personally, I personally think that the experiment
Speaker 8: has been run on world bosses and that the version
Speaker 8: that they did inside where it's just another instance and
Speaker 8: it resets every three days or whatever and you go
Speaker 8: in and you get the chance to kill it and
Speaker 8: you do kill it.
Speaker 1: I think that's the best way.
Speaker 2: I didn't like it.
Speaker 1: I'm a weirdo. I'm a weirdo. I did not like
Speaker 1: instanced world bosses.
Speaker 8: World well like bosses that exist in the real world
Speaker 8: just create the most cancerous types of gameplay and it's
Speaker 8: just really not fun for everyone involved, even the people
Speaker 8: that end up killing it. You just waste a lot
Speaker 8: of your time. You have to set up all these
Speaker 8: things that alert you at like four in the morning,
Speaker 8: and then you have to rally your guild and you
Speaker 8: have to grief other people, and it's just so degenerated.
Speaker 1: But we can work around that. What if it didn't
Speaker 1: spawn it stupid hours. What if it didn't like only
Speaker 1: I get tagged by one group and be griefable.
Speaker 8: I mean, well, I played this game called wild Star
Speaker 8: and there was a quest line that you needed to
Speaker 8: do to get a tune to the first raid, and
Speaker 8: they had world bosses where everybody on your faction that
Speaker 8: tagged it got credit, and it just made them really
Speaker 8: stupid things that you just had to wait around and
Speaker 8: wait for them to spawn so that you could be
Speaker 8: there and get it. And then if the other faction
Speaker 8: got it or they had more. I'm just telling you,
Speaker 8: man that, like when you create these big pinata things
Speaker 8: that like everybody needs for something, it just we've run
Speaker 8: the experiment and I just the juice isn't worth the
Speaker 8: squeeze now. Rare spawns on the other hand, or like
Speaker 8: what I mean by like I have nuanced opinions of this.
Speaker 11: Is in sad.
Speaker 8: When molten corep was in the first phase, right, there
Speaker 8: was that heat thing where you needed like all this
Speaker 8: fires this gear, and they had these recipes for leather
Speaker 8: pants and leather gloves. I think I don't remember exactly
Speaker 8: what the items were, it's not important, but there were
Speaker 8: these recipes and they only dropped off King Mosh. And
Speaker 8: King Mosh is this dinosaur right in on Goro and
Speaker 8: you only need five people to kill him, but he's
Speaker 8: on like a it takes like I think it was
Speaker 8: thirty two hours have to pass before a twelve hour
Speaker 8: window opens up where he can spawn it any time
Speaker 8: within that twelve hour window, right. And also there was
Speaker 8: this weird thing going on with layers that only one
Speaker 8: layer on the server he could spawn on because that
Speaker 8: was the only layer that didn't disappear, right, because I
Speaker 8: called it the prime layer, which is like the layer
Speaker 8: that all layers get spawned off of eventually. So this
Speaker 8: is the layer that like exists permanently, and then every
Speaker 8: other layer that phases in is one that gets generated
Speaker 8: because like the population demands it, right. And this is
Speaker 8: something that like I figured out when I was trying
Speaker 8: to form Title Charm, which is where we'll get to
Speaker 8: like smaller rears that you know, players can solo on
Speaker 8: their own and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Now I like this system.
Speaker 8: I think it's really cool because it rewards people for
Speaker 8: you know, figuring out the game mechanics and then like
Speaker 8: investing the time into it, and you know, you can
Speaker 8: have people staking out parts of the world. And you know,
Speaker 8: I would just sitting on Goro and like, man, I
Speaker 8: would just kill people that I would saw coming and
Speaker 8: riding around to check King Mosh and it's like, dude,
Speaker 8: he's not even gonna spawn for another sixteen hours, but
Speaker 8: I'm just gonna kill you to let you know that,
Speaker 8: Like there's a fucking rogue out here that will just
Speaker 8: kill you.
Speaker 1: For looking at this place.
Speaker 8: So you better think twice on if you want to,
Speaker 8: you know, come out here alone again and just check,
Speaker 8: you know. And I liked engaging and stuff like that.
Speaker 8: And you know, my guild en up did like we
Speaker 8: end up did farming this recipe bunch, and we ended
Speaker 8: up like extorting the Horde because like they they got
Speaker 8: the pants and we got the gloves, and like I
Speaker 8: extorted them for like a bunch of money on.
Speaker 1: The like neutral auction it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 8: I created a lot of interesting, uh kind of social
Speaker 8: game plan stuff like that, So I'm more favorable to
Speaker 8: things like that. I think that you can maybe the
Speaker 8: prime layer thing is like pretty shitty, and I don't
Speaker 8: think that that's something that like Blizzard intended, but it
Speaker 8: is just something that like the way that the servers
Speaker 8: work because of layering and stuff like that, so I
Speaker 8: think maybe you could fix that, so then maybe there's
Speaker 8: three layers or because basically it made it so that
Speaker 8: like you could only get like three king Moshes a week,
Speaker 8: you know, because of the nature of the spawn window,
Speaker 8: and that he would only literally spawn on one layer
Speaker 8: because the chances that any layer would be up for
Speaker 8: more than you know, thirty two hours was pretty much
Speaker 8: zero percent, right, so you know, would lead to those
Speaker 8: situations where there was gonna be one Yeah good.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I thought you thought, no, go for it, row
Speaker 1: or jump in Plaze do it. Somebody has to shut
Speaker 1: him up.
Speaker 10: So when the Classic Plus project first came out Jordie's website,
Speaker 10: me and a couple of guys we got really really
Speaker 10: deep in this rabbit hole talking about world bosses and
Speaker 10: rares and the idea. We arrived at was what if? Okay,
Speaker 10: so two layers first one? What if world bosses every
Speaker 10: time you killed one, If you killed one, you get
Speaker 10: locked out for the day or the week or whatever
Speaker 10: it is, right, but as soon as it dies, that
Speaker 10: immediately spawns another one. But what if you don't know
Speaker 10: where it's gonna spawn. Let's say every single zone where
Speaker 10: it has like their elite areas, you know, or like
Speaker 10: the dragon mark, right, And so you can do that
Speaker 10: with raid bosses. So you've got your members of your
Speaker 10: guild out patrolling areas, trying to be out there and
Speaker 10: see where the next one's gonna spawn at because you
Speaker 10: don't know where it's gonna go. And so now let's
Speaker 10: say you did that as well with an elite mob
Speaker 10: that takes five people to kill. So now you can
Speaker 10: go out with your five friends and go you get,
Speaker 10: you know what, two or three pieces of dungeon loop
Speaker 10: from a rare mob, but they could spawn in any zone.
Speaker 10: You don't know where it's gonna be, but you just
Speaker 10: know as soon as one dies, one will spawn. So
Speaker 10: you're giving everybody a chance to go and kill a
Speaker 10: raid boss or a world boss, but you don't know
Speaker 10: if you don't know where it's gonna be, so that
Speaker 10: way nobody can camp one spot the entire time like this.
Speaker 1: So I think this is really cute. What do you think?
Speaker 1: What do you think they sy? I really like this.
Speaker 8: I think the fixed location is like really important because
Speaker 8: that's what makes you know. For example, with the k
Speaker 8: Mosh thing that I did, there was one day where
Speaker 8: you know, it's in Angorro obviously, and there was one
Speaker 8: day where I went out there to watch the spawn
Speaker 8: and there was a seven Hord out there. So I
Speaker 8: I got like twenty people on the Alliance to go
Speaker 8: out there and we wipe them, and then the Hoard
Speaker 8: got forty people to come out there, and then they
Speaker 8: wiped us, and then we got more Alliance and we
Speaker 8: wipe them, and eventually they got like eighty Hord people
Speaker 8: out there and they wiped us. And then, you know,
Speaker 8: and that wouldn't happen if you didn't know where it spawned.
Speaker 8: And it created this really uh you know, it made
Speaker 8: me build rapport with like the Horde Guild, like I
Speaker 8: had to like find them on Discord and message them
Speaker 8: and stuff like that and kind of like wave the
Speaker 8: white flag and you know, and then we were. You know,
Speaker 8: before that happened, we were like talking shit to each
Speaker 8: other and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: It was really fun.
Speaker 8: And yeah, if you don't know where it's gonna spawn,
Speaker 8: then you kind of miss out on opportunities like that.
Speaker 8: And same with when I farmed Title Charm. The amount
Speaker 8: of PvP that I did in that lake and a
Speaker 8: Raffi basin was just off the chain, and like you
Speaker 8: would see the same people over and over and you
Speaker 8: developed these rivalries and you know, I'm bringing like shadow
Speaker 8: protection portions and shit because I'm fighting like shadow priests
Speaker 8: that are there all the time. There was a shaman
Speaker 8: that was always there, so I just had like stuff
Speaker 8: that would counter him.
Speaker 1: And you know, if it's.
Speaker 8: Always spawning in like random places, I feel that that is.
Speaker 8: I feel like that's kind of important.
Speaker 1: But all right, well, you got one vote each way.
Speaker 1: Let's let Anti be the decider. Maybe we'll get sci
Speaker 1: fied away in if you can as well. After Anti Anti, Oh,
Speaker 1: I got I got something lined up.
Speaker 2: Bro.
Speaker 1: Oh he may fucking now is the time.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm ready. I'm ready for a Gorol.
Speaker 5: Everything you've spoke about is purely endgame, and we have
Speaker 5: seen so many inverted come as Wow Killers come out
Speaker 5: in the past, So we all had great things, but
Speaker 5: then the game has failed, and I don't see why
Speaker 5: Blizzard isn't looking at what the things that were really
Speaker 5: good in those games and taking from them. For example,
Speaker 5: requests requests inside Warammer Online.
Speaker 3: We're incredible.
Speaker 5: Well, PvP in that was incredible because they had zones
Speaker 5: in every single zone that were focused towards them, and
Speaker 5: if you were a lower level you went into that
Speaker 5: rift to the same thing, had massive dynamic world events
Speaker 5: that would constantly happen, and if you were a high
Speaker 5: level player and you went into a low level zone,
Speaker 5: you got d level to go play with lower players
Speaker 5: and actually keep it challenging, so you can't just get oh,
Speaker 5: just get my sixty mates to come along and just
Speaker 5: wipe this out and then we give the loop. But
Speaker 5: then the high level players got roads that are equivalent
Speaker 5: to their actual level, so you know, you go down,
Speaker 5: you do a level twenty kind of raid in the world,
Speaker 5: and you go help out, but you still get rewards
Speaker 5: for your upper end, so you can still enjoy it.
Speaker 5: Everything you've discussed at this point is about end game content.
Speaker 5: So players that are leveling, they don't get any extra content.
Speaker 5: They might get a few extra quests and stuff like that,
Speaker 5: but all these other systems they didn't. They made it
Speaker 5: so your entire leveling career had extra things. High leveling
Speaker 5: career outside your level you did, you did, but like
Speaker 5: title charm, for example, the amount of times that you
Speaker 5: go a great well, you think and look, you were
Speaker 5: fighting some people that were your level and whatnot, but
Speaker 5: how many times did you accidentally kill someone who was
Speaker 5: like level thirty gum for their title charm with like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'd like to go.
Speaker 8: This was This was during side and it was doing
Speaker 8: a level forty level cap so there was nobody that
Speaker 8: was like under level there was.
Speaker 1: I was fighting level forties every.
Speaker 5: Time, level permanently. So every single zone you go into
Speaker 5: has a level carp So if you want to go
Speaker 5: help your mate level up and stuff like that, instead
Speaker 5: of going in there and beating the piss out of
Speaker 5: everything and him not get any experience and not having fun,
Speaker 5: you get d leveled. So it means if you want
Speaker 5: to go level with a mate who's level level, you
Speaker 5: get brought down to his level, and then you get
Speaker 5: to have fun with that because you get to that
Speaker 5: content and get that same challenge that he's getting doing
Speaker 5: those quests. And look, you don't get a question awed,
Speaker 5: but it's a social game. You're playing with your friend
Speaker 5: and you're not You're able to play with him on
Speaker 5: the level that he's playing, so he's not bored doing nothing.
Speaker 5: That those kind of things bring life to the world
Speaker 5: because it's going to make level sixty players go back
Speaker 5: down and do things. Oh there's a raid that's happened
Speaker 5: in elwyn Forrest. Cool, I go down there. I'm part
Speaker 5: of that world. Now, I'm not walking in there like
Speaker 5: some god, swinging my weapon and mass killing everything inside
Speaker 5: your challenge. You're having fun, and all those zones that
Speaker 5: were kind of dead are no longer dead because all
Speaker 5: the players are there, with the leveling players desiring to
Speaker 5: go and do these things because you get rewards of
Speaker 5: your level, but you're part of the world and you're
Speaker 5: keeping it alive and making it so there aren't five
Speaker 5: people leveling in ellen Forest. There's actually forty people down there,
Speaker 5: all doing a massive event because Goldshire is under attack.
Speaker 5: That's great, that's fantastic. That's the world that I want
Speaker 5: to live in.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, I'm with you. I've played, well, we've
Speaker 1: talked about it before. I played Warhammer Online. Final Fantasy
Speaker 1: fourteen does similar stuff. I think the bulk of WOW
Speaker 1: players are against a bulk of Classic players are against
Speaker 1: austanty because they do, like they talk about a lot
Speaker 1: about not having their power progression feel you know, halted.
Speaker 1: You know, they they are obsessed with pressing that one
Speaker 1: button and decimating things because they feel, you know, other
Speaker 1: than the right of gone through the liveling progression. I
Speaker 1: am now mexicable. I've got the b skier. I want
Speaker 1: to storm shit.
Speaker 8: My my perspective would be that if you if you
Speaker 8: allow people to d level, then you invite people to
Speaker 8: the content that it's not intended for. So I think
Speaker 8: that the middle ground that I would want to take
Speaker 8: is put more events in each zone so that while
Speaker 8: you're there, you have more opportunities to get them. So
Speaker 8: if there's like, for example, like in a Raffi basin,
Speaker 8: the only really good rare is the guy that drops
Speaker 8: title charm, right, But if there were like four raars
Speaker 8: that drop things, if you miss the title charm, you
Speaker 8: still have like three other chances for there to be
Speaker 8: some rare in the zone while you're there level appropriate
Speaker 8: for you to get it, I think, and instead of
Speaker 8: like all these people flooding the zone that are not
Speaker 8: that level but then get d leveled, it's like then
Speaker 8: you just you. Because that's a problem with world wide
Speaker 8: is is you just create this massive feeding frenzy and
Speaker 8: nobody has fun. Because yeah, I mean it's novel to
Speaker 8: see like one hundred people in one place, but really
Speaker 8: only five of those people or ten of those people
Speaker 8: or twenty of those people are gonna get the thing,
Speaker 8: and so then the novelty of like them a lot
Speaker 8: of people being there is like not that great.
Speaker 1: So I think just up the.
Speaker 8: Amount of unique things per zone, you know, per level
Speaker 8: bracket or whatever, and then that way there's more things
Speaker 8: you can kind of bounce between if there are things
Speaker 8: that are down that would make.
Speaker 1: That would make those zones memorable to people while leveling
Speaker 1: through them.
Speaker 5: Ye, example, I want tied to Tom and my mate Josh,
Speaker 5: he's got a level of sixty and I want it.
Speaker 5: So I just got hey, Jock, can you come in
Speaker 5: here and beat the piss out of the sea so
Speaker 5: I can get the Great Autumn.
Speaker 8: Well, title charm is kind of unique in that it's
Speaker 8: such a good item past the item of the level
Speaker 8: that you get it at. But let let's say that
Speaker 8: these items are more like level appropriate and they don't you.
Speaker 5: Know, tis like you know, if you want to bait
Speaker 5: out someone else getting it, you go, hey, Josh, can
Speaker 5: you come down here and beat the piss out of this? Well,
Speaker 5: then it kind of does take the charm away from
Speaker 5: the player who doesn't have my mate, shure, he's got
Speaker 5: a level sixty to just come and completely wreck this one.
Speaker 7: Mob.
Speaker 5: If you were the leveled and brought down to say forty,
Speaker 5: and you went down, then you'd be helping your friend,
Speaker 5: not coming down there just to quickly wipe it.
Speaker 3: So, you know, you guess so.
Speaker 5: But if you if you've got PvP, that would be
Speaker 5: even better because then you'd both be fighting at an
Speaker 5: equal level.
Speaker 1: Don't get me started. Don't get me started on equal
Speaker 1: livees to PvP. Anyway, John's heard enough, he said, fuck this,
Speaker 1: I need to weigh in. How are you mate?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't really have anything to say. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to turn off my Twitch because I'm going to
Speaker 2: play and I just want listening on you guys. All good,
Speaker 2: all good. It's interesting to listen to. It's just like, okay,
Speaker 2: don't tell DC that.
Speaker 1: Don't tell DC, won't stop.
Speaker 2: It's still just the same thing though. It's like if
Speaker 2: once there's nothing out for you to get in the
Speaker 2: open world and people disappear and call it whatever you
Speaker 2: want to, you know, call it via farm, but once
Speaker 2: I don't need it anymore, the people just don't do
Speaker 2: that content.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 8: I mean, yeah, look, I'm not opposed to them adding
Speaker 8: more things that are, you know, appealing things to spend
Speaker 8: your time on trying to acquire.
Speaker 1: I'm not that way at all.
Speaker 8: I just you know, going back to my original point
Speaker 8: is like, as long as it's something that you have
Speaker 8: to actually put effort into doing, like you have to
Speaker 8: move your character physically through the world to get there,
Speaker 8: you have to spend a certain amount of time waiting
Speaker 8: for the thing to spawn, making sure you get the tag,
Speaker 8: killing it successfully without dying or getting griefed. As long
Speaker 8: as you have to do that so that when you
Speaker 8: have the item, people marvel at the fact that you
Speaker 8: have it, then I think that that's the most important
Speaker 8: thing to preserve, because that's what's lost, in my opinion,
Speaker 8: in the further iterations of the game where they want
Speaker 8: to equalize everyone's access to everything, and I kind of
Speaker 8: like that oppress nature of access in classic Wow is
Speaker 8: that you don't just get to get the all the things.
Speaker 8: You only get to get the things that you're willing
Speaker 8: to work towards. And some things are a giant fucking
Speaker 8: pain in the ass and they're horrible to actually acquire.
Speaker 8: But then once you get it, it's like you feel
Speaker 8: that power on your character forever. And I think that's
Speaker 8: like the thing that you want to preserve. So if
Speaker 8: you want to throw more things into the world that
Speaker 8: give people that opportunity, I'm totally for that, as long
Speaker 8: as we preserve that philosophy of like, you know, they
Speaker 8: look at you and they're like, oh, fuck, dude. That
Speaker 8: means this guy went to fucking a raffi and he
Speaker 8: waited there for like forty eight hours and need to
Speaker 8: fight a bunch of people in the water as a rogue.
Speaker 8: That fucking sucks, uh, and you know, and then had
Speaker 8: to like get the spawn and kill it and like
Speaker 8: had it. You know, I had to kill fucking god,
Speaker 8: I don't remember his name now, Emperor, title whatever. I
Speaker 8: had to kill him four times before I got my
Speaker 8: title charm, and I saw it drop once and gave
Speaker 8: it to the first time. It dropped on my first kill,
Speaker 8: but I was with her with somebody else, and I
Speaker 8: gave it to him instead.
Speaker 1: Oh, here we go. You've benevolent and wonderful person. Auntie.
Speaker 1: Let me let me just before I forget Antie, let
Speaker 1: me get you. I said, I was going to get
Speaker 1: you to vote on Rowe Hearim's suggestion of the World
Speaker 1: boss that once he gets killed, he immediately responds in
Speaker 1: a different part of the world. Were you on board
Speaker 1: with that suggestion or not?
Speaker 10: Oh? No, I love that.
Speaker 5: I love that regardless if it's the same boss or
Speaker 5: a different boss kind of thing or whatever it happens
Speaker 5: to be.
Speaker 2: I love the fact.
Speaker 5: And then make it so it's like maybe just like
Speaker 5: a yell announcement in things, so then you know it's
Speaker 5: all word of mouth, or you know, my mate said
Speaker 5: that he saw the world announcement, so you've got people rushing.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 5: That's great.
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree John. Out of interest, if you
Speaker 1: want to get in on the jury on this one
Speaker 1: with you four or against that idea.
Speaker 2: Well I had to step away, and sorry, I'll explain.
Speaker 1: It to you, said. The suggestion, the suggestion from rowe
Speaker 1: Herem was what if we had a situation where a
Speaker 1: because we're talking about world bosses and whether people like
Speaker 1: instanced world bosses in SOD or if they like, you know,
Speaker 1: the lockdown able, grievable world bosses of Vanilla and whatnot.
Speaker 1: And rote hear Him came in and said, what if
Speaker 1: you had a world boss that just like, as soon
Speaker 1: as it died, it literally respawns straight away. Just he
Speaker 1: could respawn anywhere in the world, So there was kind
Speaker 1: of like a treasure hunting aspect to it, and you
Speaker 1: could only do it and you can and he goes like,
Speaker 1: once you could only get the kill once a week.
Speaker 1: So once you've done it for that week, your group
Speaker 1: was done and it instantly responds for another group somewhere
Speaker 1: in the world and they got to find it.
Speaker 2: I guess that sounds kind of classic. I just don't.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I guess it's classic because of the
Speaker 2: kind of friction. We're just like, hey, here's a time
Speaker 2: spender because you're just running around, well you're probably not
Speaker 2: even gonna run around. People are gonna wind up seeing it,
Speaker 2: or it's going to have like some sort of news
Speaker 2: flash in the zone and have some rp ooh this
Speaker 2: world boss has just appeared and he's going to some
Speaker 2: and bad stuff and you just have to get there
Speaker 2: before other people. I mean, it's it's whatever. I mean,
Speaker 2: I couldn't care. It's it is very classic there.
Speaker 5: I will say another system that Warhammer Online had that
Speaker 5: I thought always brought flavor of the world. Like we're
Speaker 5: all vain players. We all want our players characters to
Speaker 5: look amazing and stuff like that because we love standing
Speaker 5: in ogama and flexing whatever. But the achievement system in
Speaker 5: Warhamer Online where you got small rewards from like killing
Speaker 5: like five thousand boars, and it would be like a
Speaker 5: small little trophy that you can hang on your armor. Yes,
Speaker 5: a billion times over, please.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned that. I was going to
Speaker 1: say this half an hour ago Anti and thought, no,
Speaker 1: the guys will go after me for being a fucking
Speaker 1: retail fan in classic disguise.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Whatever, but I thought to that point I was going
Speaker 1: to say, like, I don't know how to word this
Speaker 1: correctly because it sounds like I want everything for nothing,
Speaker 1: but I don't. I was like, how do we make
Speaker 1: generic mob killer in the world more meaningful. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: if I say something like more frequent, meaningful loot, well
Speaker 1: that's not really necessarily what I want. That just makes
Speaker 1: me sound like I want to fucking pinata available at
Speaker 1: all times by mowing down non eliteset level sixty or whatnot.
Speaker 1: But like I was, like, I wish there was some
Speaker 1: kind of system that if I were bored shitlers and
Speaker 1: I just want to go, just go on a killing
Speaker 1: spree and just go. I'm just killing every fucking mob
Speaker 1: I see tonight, and I'm not necessarily you know, chasing
Speaker 1: one item or a particular blue trading material or whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. I just want to go and mind
Speaker 1: numbingly kill mobs. How do you, like, how do you
Speaker 1: tie that into a value to the player? And I
Speaker 1: mean maybe your suggestion, is it anti? Like I was
Speaker 1: just sort of like, is there a way to get
Speaker 1: like we need to get players in the open world.
Speaker 1: That's the whole point of making the The world is
Speaker 1: the main character. So like, stop people raid logging, give
Speaker 1: them a reason to be like, no, bro, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to that dungeon. I'm going to the open world.
Speaker 1: And you know, maybe your suggestion is one something you
Speaker 1: could do.
Speaker 5: Anti Warmmer Online did a great the amount of titles
Speaker 5: that you could get, and look, they were titles that
Speaker 5: you would see constantly. You see them in WILPVP, and
Speaker 5: there were some people that you would see on the
Speaker 5: other time where they're told to be like, damn, that
Speaker 5: dude's put the work in, Like that's a really difficult
Speaker 5: thing to do. But little things like my Warrior priests
Speaker 5: had seals all over him, and I had a trophy
Speaker 5: on my little belt and I don't care if anyone
Speaker 5: else didn't see it. I think I look bad as
Speaker 5: I was standing with my big warhammer with like seals
Speaker 5: hanging off all over like seals is in the wamar online.
Speaker 5: The little standy's like waxing seals, not seals.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I look cool. And you see some like
Speaker 5: Destro players who have got like skulls hanging from their
Speaker 5: weapons and stuff, and those little flavor things make it
Speaker 5: so you wan to go and get them. They're all
Speaker 5: we're all grinders. We play a grindy game, and those
Speaker 5: things where it's like chill five thousand little rat folks.
Speaker 5: And you can get the title of like the Pied Piper.
Speaker 5: It's just like, oh my god, all right, I want
Speaker 5: to be Anti Cenan's the Pied Piper.
Speaker 7: Why not.
Speaker 2: My thing?
Speaker 1: My thing is less so sorry you go gigantor.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about it.
Speaker 12: Something to keep people interested in other content, and that's
Speaker 12: like their level. Maybe open up the loop tables, they're
Speaker 12: not so restricted.
Speaker 1: My thing is less less like achievement based than Anti said,
Speaker 1: but maybe more of along the lines that you're going
Speaker 1: to gigant or where like I need something reward wise
Speaker 1: that at the MMO that wins at the end of
Speaker 1: the day. And I just said it, but I'll say
Speaker 1: it again, is the one that creates an equal argument
Speaker 1: in the player's mind for going to instance content versus
Speaker 1: non instance content. And you you should be genuinely torn about, Oh,
Speaker 1: I've only got an hour to play tonight. Do I
Speaker 1: do two dungeons or do I spend that hour chasing
Speaker 1: the thing or killing these mobs in the open world?
Speaker 1: You know, not because i'm you know, and I'm talking
Speaker 1: outside of gathering and just chasing you know, your title
Speaker 1: charm or whatnot.
Speaker 12: My thought is, you know, how mobs are currently tied
Speaker 12: to their level bracket for the items that they drop.
Speaker 12: Do you kill level five four, you'll probably get anywhere
Speaker 12: from level five to ten items that are usually green
Speaker 12: or blue.
Speaker 2: I would say I would like for that there'll be.
Speaker 12: A low chance of higher level items that could possibly
Speaker 12: drop outside of their brackets. So like a forty fifty items,
Speaker 12: but they're just as rare as those boe ethics that
Speaker 12: we see at the higher level of like fifty a sixty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think the ability to kill, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think that's I think that's.
Speaker 12: A great one, extremely rare.
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
Speaker 1: So under no, But then gigant or the problem is
Speaker 1: you've opened the door for the mage to go down
Speaker 1: and spam arcane explosion on level one bores chasing that
Speaker 1: point one point zero one percent chance he'll get a
Speaker 1: phenomenal level sixty item. I'm I love you, I love
Speaker 1: that you're using your noodle, But I don't think that
Speaker 1: one's it.
Speaker 12: No, not that far technically extreme, So like a level
Speaker 12: five would get like a level forty green.
Speaker 2: Yet I'm okay.
Speaker 1: I still, I'm still here's what I'll take you, I'll
Speaker 1: take useless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, it's just a goal you can sell it
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 1: I'll take your idea, and just can I add this
Speaker 1: one thing though? Just he's what Gigantor has just said,
Speaker 1: luckily enough, has spawned this light bulb over my head.
Speaker 1: Tell me if I'm crazy for saying this. I think
Speaker 1: the concept of mobs dropping green items that are five
Speaker 1: levels below the level of the mob is incredibly archaic
Speaker 1: and I'm fucking sick of it, and I want mobs
Speaker 1: to drop there at level items. Yes or no to
Speaker 1: that one? I guess that's fine. I mean, does that
Speaker 1: past the smell test. I didn't even know that they
Speaker 1: were restricted to five five levels below? Baby, Oh, well
Speaker 1: you know that sucks. Yeah, so you're the you're the
Speaker 1: level thirty siks leveling paladine. Congratulations on your new level
Speaker 1: thirty one gloves. When you killed the level thirty siks mob.
Speaker 8: I mean, I guess it technically incentivizes people to actually
Speaker 8: run dungeons for gear that's level appropriate, and then if
Speaker 8: you're outside.
Speaker 1: You're just a little flower. I guess so, I ie.
Speaker 8: One thing that you said that I kind of want
Speaker 8: to poke at a bit is that you said so
Speaker 8: because this kind of like rubs me the wrong way
Speaker 8: is like, I don't you said that if you can
Speaker 8: only log on for like an hour a night, and
Speaker 8: I just kind of want to stop you right there.
Speaker 8: It's like, I don't think MMOs are games that you
Speaker 8: should be able to get a lot accomplished.
Speaker 1: If you only like have Yeah, but now now you're
Speaker 1: you're dangerously encroaching on you're living in a world that
Speaker 1: doesn't exist anymore. I mean, look, this is this is well,
Speaker 1: that's a great point.
Speaker 8: I think that's a great point as well. I was
Speaker 8: actually gonna say that, like I kind of think that
Speaker 8: the way that people play these games anymore is like
Speaker 8: I don't think that I think a lot of people
Speaker 8: like raid logging. I don't think that there is Like
Speaker 8: I think that if you take all these steps to
Speaker 8: make the world like the main character, you might just
Speaker 8: miss the mark and like just make a lot of
Speaker 8: content that a lot of people aren't going to engage
Speaker 8: with because I think that like, yeah, we're going to
Speaker 8: talk about player realities. I just don't think that's the
Speaker 8: way that people engage with these kind of games anymore.
Speaker 8: People like playing an MMO kind of seasonally, they've kind
Speaker 8: of been conditioned to play it that way and do
Speaker 8: the raid logging thing. Not really everybody wants to live
Speaker 8: and breathe. And this is why when you hear people like, God,
Speaker 8: what's the fucking rogues name that always says like bunk Hi,
Speaker 8: I forgot his name, but he he will advocate for
Speaker 8: like one layer servers and you know all these really
Speaker 8: strict and stringent kind of so like no queuing you know,
Speaker 8: things like that, or not no queuing of like like
Speaker 8: like uh, server caps and stuff like that, so that
Speaker 8: you are trying to like queue into the server to
Speaker 8: create these like social bonds and stuff like that. And
Speaker 8: it's you know, he's really trying to aim for you know,
Speaker 8: that wow of old, that vanilla of old kind of
Speaker 8: social experience. But I just don't think that the audience
Speaker 8: is really there for that anymore.
Speaker 1: So you do have to.
Speaker 8: Really it is a difficult It's very difficult. The game
Speaker 8: is like how do you how do you design it nowadays?
Speaker 8: Do you do you design it with preserving those old
Speaker 8: world principles in mind, or do you design it for
Speaker 8: the reality of like the way that people play video games.
Speaker 1: And that's the incredible difficulty because then do you think
Speaker 1: there's a lot you have to try and do both,
Speaker 1: and everyone would say, then you've already failed because you're
Speaker 1: trying to make a game for everyone. Sorry the guy
Speaker 1: you're trying to talk about sharp by the way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like this is the disagree more so, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna run and chat to my wife for two second year.
Speaker 5: You have nothing to do people, right, look, because there
Speaker 5: is nothing to do that isn't just repetitive minority stuff
Speaker 5: in this game that is absolutely no reward up for
Speaker 5: a certain point, Warhammer Online has still got an absolutely
Speaker 5: beautiful private server running that gets three to four thousand
Speaker 5: players concurrently on there, and there is constantly people logging
Speaker 5: in to do PvP and to do world content they
Speaker 5: played because they want to play and they want to
Speaker 5: do things meaningful.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I mean it sounds like you're making my point for me.
Speaker 8: You're saying that there is like a small minority of
Speaker 8: players that love playing and spending all their time in
Speaker 8: a game like no matter what. And I agree with you,
Speaker 8: but I agree on the fact that it's a small minority.
Speaker 8: I think the vast majority of players the interface with
Speaker 8: games now are interested in the more fleeting you know,
Speaker 8: kind of like one hour sessions or like seasonal sessions
Speaker 8: where they kind of come in and they have a
Speaker 8: goal and they meet it within a week and then
Speaker 8: they kind of stop playing, like move on to something else.
Speaker 8: I would like it to be not the case, but
Speaker 8: I don't think that that is the case anymore. And
Speaker 8: I don't think that you could also have a game
Speaker 8: where the world is filled with so much content that
Speaker 8: is equal on rewards to the level of stuff that
Speaker 8: you would get in raids or whatever, because then you
Speaker 8: kind of defeat the purpose of doing the raids. So
Speaker 8: I think that that's just like I just think that
Speaker 8: that's just like a type of gamer that doesn't really
Speaker 8: like exist that much anymore. We're all nostalgic for it,
Speaker 8: and we also kind of it kind of appeals to us,
Speaker 8: you know. I was advocating earlier before about like getting
Speaker 8: rewarded for putting hours and hours and hours into the game,
Speaker 8: and I think that that's the philosophy that should be reserved.
Speaker 8: But I think that's a major turnoff for a lot
Speaker 8: of people. And that's why people do like Dungeon Finder
Speaker 8: and stuff like that, because they like, they're like, oh,
Speaker 8: I only have forty five minutes, so I want to
Speaker 8: be able to grind out three dungeons real quick and
Speaker 8: see if I get that one item that I need.
Speaker 8: I think that players like us that like really appreciate
Speaker 8: like living in the world, like treating this as our
Speaker 8: second life. I think we are in the minority.
Speaker 5: See, I just don't think it's true. I think that
Speaker 5: people have become like become this because of the world.
Speaker 1: I mean, the wider people buy gold.
Speaker 8: If people if people really loved being in the game
Speaker 8: and they just needed a reason to play, they wouldn't
Speaker 8: buy gold because they would just go grind it because
Speaker 8: the game is so enthralling.
Speaker 1: And that's a rule.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think I enjoyed people.
Speaker 1: I mean I disagree.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 8: What I disagree though, that I think grinding gold is fun.
Speaker 8: I think that like going to a place like I
Speaker 8: think going to tears Hand as a rogue and farming
Speaker 8: for an hour is really fun and really meaningful because
Speaker 8: I know that the gold that I make puts me
Speaker 8: ahead of other players. So now what we did we
Speaker 8: you know, we just disagree on this like subject subjective.
Speaker 5: Uh, don't get me wrong. I am currently right now
Speaker 5: and just sorry. And because I don't want to plays.
Speaker 3: I am that.
Speaker 8: I'm with you, Yeah, I'm with you, but like most
Speaker 8: people aren't like that, and they'd rather just pay a
Speaker 8: G two G and get it sent to their mail
Speaker 8: and then catch up.
Speaker 5: We like grinding because we enjoy grinding. They should be
Speaker 5: other things in the world that you can do to
Speaker 5: any money, and those things, unfortunately don't really ceaset in
Speaker 5: this card.
Speaker 8: That that kind of like blies like why gdkps are
Speaker 8: so popular because people only want the one thing in
Speaker 8: the game that they do to service all their needs.
Speaker 1: That's why. Because people only like rating.
Speaker 8: So that's why gdkps became a thing, because they're like,
Speaker 8: I could raid and make money at the same time,
Speaker 8: because otherwise, if you couldn't make money through rating, they would.
Speaker 1: Just fucking not do it.
Speaker 8: And we know that they don't because in the in
Speaker 8: the version of the game where gdkps are banned, they
Speaker 8: just buy it, So I.
Speaker 1: Do just think they don't stop. They also buy it
Speaker 1: in the version of the game that has gdkps. Sure,
Speaker 1: sometimes that too, I mean sometimes, not fucking sometimes all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 8: I just think that like we we have to come
Speaker 8: to grips where like like you know, the classic community
Speaker 8: is stuff like that but you know, dude, there's people
Speaker 8: like God that there's that one guy that's part of
Speaker 8: this community and he's got the crazy fucking accent and
Speaker 8: he's like such a vanilla purist and he does like
Speaker 8: max round.
Speaker 1: About uhhana, thank you yah sahana. Yeah.
Speaker 8: You know people like that, you know, they're they're like
Speaker 8: fucking unicorns.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 8: They just we just don't exist in like big packs anymore.
Speaker 8: And it's like it is this these people that have
Speaker 8: been brought up on like battle passes and seasons and
Speaker 8: all this stuff, and like, I just don't think that
Speaker 8: they are really interested in engaging.
Speaker 1: With just dude, you know what.
Speaker 8: You know, one of the things that I find the
Speaker 8: most frustrating about discussing modern games with people is when
Speaker 8: they invoke dopamine. When they try and tell you how
Speaker 8: good a game is based on like.
Speaker 1: How much dopamine it gives you.
Speaker 8: I just want to rip their fucking heart out of
Speaker 8: their body and let them die, because you're missing the
Speaker 8: fucking pointing names used to get developed because they were
Speaker 8: just good on their own, you know. Like for example,
Speaker 8: when you level in Wow, when you level up and
Speaker 8: you ding, it's like, yeah, your character gets like a
Speaker 8: little light flash around it and it makes a big noise.
Speaker 8: But like the developer wasn't like, oh, this is gonna
Speaker 8: give them so much dopamine.
Speaker 1: They were just trying to make like a card settled down,
Speaker 1: settled down. You raise a good point. I just want
Speaker 1: to spring it back a little bit.
Speaker 8: Sorry, but I think that that's what like that what
Speaker 8: I'm saying is that, like, I think that that's what
Speaker 8: modern gamers have been.
Speaker 1: Trained to seek. They want stuff that is constantly giving
Speaker 1: them dopamine and giving them all these hits. They just
Speaker 1: can't see they missed the forest for the trees.
Speaker 8: They can't just play a.
Speaker 1: Game that is fun.
Speaker 8: It needs to be engineered to be dripping dopamine into
Speaker 8: their serotonin receptors or how the fuck your brain works
Speaker 8: all the time. And so I think that's what makes
Speaker 8: it not engage with the world, regardless of how much
Speaker 8: stuff you put in.
Speaker 1: Let me say these though, just on Sorry, I had
Speaker 1: to go out and talk to my wife for two seconds.
Speaker 1: I missed a bit of what you guys talked about.
Speaker 1: But I just want to say, hello, Ale, it is
Speaker 1: lovely to see you. You're more than welcome to join
Speaker 1: in chat. Hello Jason, my brother from another mother. Always
Speaker 1: good to see you. Look, I just want to bring
Speaker 1: it back to something we were talking about before I
Speaker 1: got up. What I was getting at DC is and
Speaker 1: this is a really contentious point to bring up when
Speaker 1: we talk about the development in the direction of classic
Speaker 1: plus where I've said it a few times on the
Speaker 1: show and pass where you know, take a drink every
Speaker 1: time I say that, where I've been getting at whilst
Speaker 1: you never want to lose that classic essence and like
Speaker 1: the thought of you know, not giving rewards to people
Speaker 1: who have done nothing, and I do not subscribe to
Speaker 1: the congratulations you logged on, here's your epic sword, you
Speaker 1: timed your name correctly, you have BIS armor like I've
Speaker 1: never been a member pastor Yeah, I've never been that guy,
Speaker 1: but what I am is like this is hard to say.
Speaker 1: But like with the market of twenty twenty six classic players,
Speaker 1: like we say we are an aging mum and dad
Speaker 1: fan base. There is this eternal struggle going on now
Speaker 1: of do you make this do you make the game
Speaker 1: of two thousand and four and force your audience to adapt,
Speaker 1: or do you make the game for the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: six age level of that old two thousand and four
Speaker 1: audience that don't have a much enough not enough as
Speaker 1: much time on their hands. So like, as much as
Speaker 1: it sucks saying both, it's you want that epic classic scale.
Speaker 1: But my point, and I've talked about this like one
Speaker 1: or two episodes ago DC, my thing is if you
Speaker 1: have an MMO where you legitimately look your players in
Speaker 1: the eye and you go, you've got you've only got
Speaker 1: an hour to play, fucking good luck, you're not getting
Speaker 1: anything done in this game, then your game is fucking doah.
Speaker 8: Yeah. I do think this is like a bit of
Speaker 8: a design paradox, and I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker 8: And I guess what I would say is like, if
Speaker 8: you have an hour to play, you know, you could
Speaker 8: get like some herban and some mining done or something
Speaker 8: like that, right, But I don't think you should expect
Speaker 8: to be able to make meaningful strides on your character
Speaker 8: the way that you can and like retail.
Speaker 1: Do you reckon, you know, like we talked about this
Speaker 1: like three weeks ago, do you reckon you should be
Speaker 1: able to run a dungeon and an oil.
Speaker 8: I mean, I I'm not against the dungeon taking less
Speaker 8: than an hour. But the way that world of workraft
Speaker 8: Classic works is that you know and the and the
Speaker 8: and this is why I I I like always remember
Speaker 8: this about you is like you hate the whole, Like, oh,
Speaker 8: you got to find the tank, and then you got
Speaker 8: to fill the group, and then someone leaves, you got
Speaker 8: to place them, and then you got to walk there
Speaker 8: and not ever runs at the summoning stone and then
Speaker 8: you know, but the thing is that everybody has to
Speaker 8: do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, perfect, saying you walked in. If you're all
Speaker 1: in the dungeon, you're at the start of the dungeon.
Speaker 1: Are you on board with that taking an hour or less?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but I'm I always approach it from the fact that,
Speaker 1: like you have to go through all the social Okay,
Speaker 1: I understand that. I understand that. Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Don't talk about the reality and how people are actually
Speaker 2: playing Classic. They're getting they're buying fucking summons. So once
Speaker 2: you get your group and nobody has to get there,
Speaker 2: nobody's waiting there, they're they're paying a goddamn bot. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, then it sounds great, it's it
Speaker 2: sounds very noble, but it's just not how even the
Speaker 2: classic player base is interacting with the problem.
Speaker 8: I mean, let's be real, there's not like a summoning
Speaker 8: bought at mardon My like Lights Hope Chapel, and they're
Speaker 8: at like Tenario.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get boked down. It's just fine.
Speaker 1: I don't get boked down in that. What I'm saying
Speaker 1: is without retailifying everything. And I don't necessarily use retail
Speaker 1: as a dirty word, but I understand why people bring
Speaker 1: it up in this kind of an argument. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I understand that the vast majority of us being MMO
Speaker 1: game is we play in bulk time slots. We do
Speaker 1: sit down, generally speaking, for three to four hours at
Speaker 1: a time. I'm going to play some Wow Classic and
Speaker 1: you're there for fucking quite a while. I get that,
Speaker 1: but I still really do like like to preserve the
Speaker 1: concept of if I look at my watch and I go, oh,
Speaker 1: I know I have to go to dinner at six
Speaker 1: I have to walk out the door and get in
Speaker 1: the car at six pm. It is currently five pm.
Speaker 1: I would like to log onto World of Warcraft and
Speaker 1: do something that somehow counts towards my character's progression right
Speaker 1: in some some minor medium or meaningful way. I want
Speaker 1: to be able to feel that I can do that,
Speaker 1: as opposed to looking at my watch and going, oh god,
Speaker 1: it's five pm. I have to leave for an I
Speaker 1: leave in an hour. I can't play Wow now because
Speaker 1: I don't have enough time.
Speaker 10: I got that kind of an idea that might apply
Speaker 10: to that a little bit.
Speaker 8: Back in.
Speaker 10: It was either misipend Area Original or Cataclysm. I was
Speaker 10: a lot younger, and I was really young. I don't
Speaker 10: have enough time on the family computer to actually be
Speaker 10: able to like play as much as I do now,
Speaker 10: because that's how I was, but I won't say how
Speaker 10: young that was anyways. So it became for me, I'm
Speaker 10: leveling up a character, and I didn't have that much
Speaker 10: time to do it. But I found out, for whatever
Speaker 10: reason at that time, doing battle grounds while leveling up
Speaker 10: actually gave you a significant amount of.
Speaker 1: XP and honor.
Speaker 10: So I could just jump on do two or three
Speaker 10: battlegrounds and that would have given me like, I don't
Speaker 10: think it was like like at least half of the level.
Speaker 10: But I was also getting enough honor so that when
Speaker 10: I made it to max level, I was able to
Speaker 10: buy a full you know, like your starter kit or whatever.
Speaker 10: So anyways, my point in saying that is, what if
Speaker 10: there were more? But like the other day, I did
Speaker 10: a setic calls on the level sixty six rugue that
Speaker 10: I have, but I got a piece of level seventy loop.
Speaker 10: What if you threw in little things that you can
Speaker 10: do while leveling up that will give you your prebius
Speaker 10: once you get there, or at least give you, like
Speaker 10: I don't know, little edges getting ready for it as
Speaker 10: you're building up, or they're giving you honor, or at
Speaker 10: least enough honor that's significant enough that you can actually
Speaker 10: buy pieces when you reach Max's level.
Speaker 1: You coining know what I'm saying, Well, this is a
Speaker 1: combination of a couple of things we talked about before
Speaker 1: with Giganta's idea that he got fucking decimated for talking
Speaker 1: about letting people get higher level items from lower level mobs,
Speaker 1: but then also anti andize point about giving players a
Speaker 1: reason to kill mobs outside of very very rare chase
Speaker 1: items like your title charms. So like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if like.
Speaker 8: Not necessary replications.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing that Yeah.
Speaker 8: I mean I feel like that's I mean, I you
Speaker 8: know that I thought the whole, Like, wanting reason to
Speaker 8: kill mobs is kind of a weird There are a
Speaker 8: lot of reasons to kill mobs in the game already,
Speaker 8: So I don't know, I felt like.
Speaker 1: That was a you can say, a weird shit thing
Speaker 1: to say. You can say that, I'm I guess I'm
Speaker 1: meaning yeah, No, that's.
Speaker 8: Not exactly how I feel about it, But yeah, I
Speaker 8: thought it was an odd concern to have because I
Speaker 8: feel like there's plenty of incentive in the game already
Speaker 8: to kill you know, they are specific mobs. You can't
Speaker 8: just go out and kill like whatever. You can't just
Speaker 8: go like from the bottom of fell would to the
Speaker 8: top of fell, would and kill everything and expect to
Speaker 8: get anything more than just like the gray trash items
Speaker 8: that they drop. But if you stay in the bottom
Speaker 8: of fell, would and kill for bugs, you're staying in
Speaker 8: the top of fell would and kill for bugs, You'll
Speaker 8: get in chants and tailoring patterns and all sorts of stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 8: but reputation.
Speaker 1: But the only thing is you're right, you're spot on.
Speaker 1: The only thing is those examples are literally like number
Speaker 1: one few and far between, and number two. Like again,
Speaker 1: the example is oh, he's he's a small tiny area
Speaker 1: in the world. If you you know, kill these, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty five fur bolgs that you know a lot of
Speaker 1: other people around you are trying to kill, then you'll
Speaker 1: get reputation. That's cool, it works, But I'm sort of
Speaker 1: trying to expand on that and make it at a
Speaker 1: grander scale. But like, reputation is a really good thing
Speaker 1: to bring up, and like I fully expect Classic Plus
Speaker 1: to absolutely expand on the reputation concept, and like I
Speaker 1: think that's a really good thing to shut me up
Speaker 1: and come back with. Is like all right, like what
Speaker 1: if there were just more reputations and like there were
Speaker 1: more meaningful kills in the world that if you go
Speaker 1: out and just kill shit for an hour, you don't
Speaker 1: have to sit there and hope for a good loot drop.
Speaker 1: You've actually made progression.
Speaker 8: Well, I've personally had like ideas about how they could
Speaker 8: do this with like crafting systems and stuff like that. Like,
Speaker 8: for example, I thought, you know, rather than needing to
Speaker 8: like grind spiders to get like spider silk or something
Speaker 8: like that, you could have like a bolt of silk
Speaker 8: in your inventory, and if you kill like thirty spiders,
Speaker 8: it will upgrade into like the material that you need
Speaker 8: rather than like having to get the drop. But that's
Speaker 8: completely like a different game or like something comprehensively that
Speaker 8: they'd have to, you know, implement it to their game
Speaker 8: and change. It's a whole different philosophy. But I think
Speaker 8: that if they do improve crafting, that they could add
Speaker 8: more recipes to various mobs out in the world that
Speaker 8: would make it worth farming them. For example, like going
Speaker 8: back to the King Mosh thing, like the fact that
Speaker 8: it only spawned three times a week. Basically for every
Speaker 8: server they eventually patched in that you could farm regular
Speaker 8: Devil Sours and they would have like a point one
Speaker 8: percent chance to drop the recipe or whatever, because you know,
Speaker 8: if you were one of the Basically, my guild monopolized
Speaker 8: it for like a week, like that first week of
Speaker 8: multen Core or whatever, we monopolized the pattern, and you know,
Speaker 8: the guy that had the leatherworker in our guild made
Speaker 8: like one hundred thousand gold like plus, and you know,
Speaker 8: and then once we were in like week two of
Speaker 8: multicorep or whatever, Blizzard patched in that it dropped off
Speaker 8: like regular Devil Sours, and then the price of the
Speaker 8: pattern plummeted, and you know, there were a couple of
Speaker 8: them on the age like every other day or whatever.
Speaker 8: So I think that's kind of a good way you
Speaker 8: could go about it, is just make crafting more relevant,
Speaker 8: like throughout the game, and then make more mobs drop
Speaker 8: rare patterns so that they are worth farming. But that
Speaker 8: kind of gets back to your point of like you're
Speaker 8: just killing something for like a very very low drop rate,
Speaker 8: like a Crusader and Chan or something like that. But
Speaker 8: I personally like doing stuff like that, And again, I
Speaker 8: think it's very important to have the reason that it's
Speaker 8: good to have specific places and specific things to drop
Speaker 8: it is because it incentivizes the people of opposite factions
Speaker 8: to mix, you know, personally on side, I killed a
Speaker 8: shaman at the tower where Crusader drops while he was
Speaker 8: killing a mob, and then I killed that mob and
Speaker 8: and drop Crusader, and so I know that I fucking
Speaker 8: stunted on that guy and got his Crusader and Chan,
Speaker 8: and I'll never forget that.
Speaker 1: Can you ever tell a story that doesn't involve you
Speaker 1: some rogue? Like what do you what do you want
Speaker 1: from me?
Speaker 8: I'm out there killing people all the time, that's the
Speaker 8: whole fun.
Speaker 7: Part of it.
Speaker 1: I must say, like, I will be bitterly disappointed if
Speaker 1: they haven't done a genuine, incensey overhaul of professions if
Speaker 1: if classics they did good work on it, And they did,
Speaker 1: they did, and I hope they keep on that line,
Speaker 1: because like if you turn into just his basically the
Speaker 1: engineering or the leather working you've always known with ten
Speaker 1: new recipes, like, that's this fucking lame. I've also said
Speaker 1: they they must. They won't, but they must like almost
Speaker 1: redesigned gathering in a bot filled world, like you must
Speaker 1: readdress the way that you approach gathering. They won't, but
Speaker 1: they might. And I know people be like you, how
Speaker 1: did you change gathering where there's a fucking will there's
Speaker 1: a way, it's just you can.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I feel like you could code it in a
Speaker 8: way that like if somebody else took the node, like
Speaker 8: it's still there for you to loot as well, and
Speaker 8: like disappears based on some kind of code in your
Speaker 8: character that's unique to you.
Speaker 1: There's something you could do. But they saything like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if they don't, they're not going to work on the bots,
Speaker 1: then they have to work on the things that the
Speaker 1: bots affect.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: So anyway, now, look, Gigantor, to be fair, do you
Speaker 1: want to pipe up? He feels he's been unfairly shitit
Speaker 1: on for his suggestion, Gigantor, do you want to repeat
Speaker 1: what you said in chat?
Speaker 2: I've been expanding on it in chat and I'm driving
Speaker 2: at the moment. Would be a little difficult.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll do it for you, he said, Fuck every
Speaker 1: single one of you, especially DC Green. I do love
Speaker 1: how I get shit on with my idea about Maiji's
Speaker 1: majors farming low level mobs for higher level items when
Speaker 1: they already do that in Tannerus with level forty mobs
Speaker 1: for world epics. Screw all of you, Josh sucks, That's
Speaker 1: what he said verbatim. Actually, yeah, exactly, So there you go.
Speaker 8: Well, I do take issue with that. I just want
Speaker 8: equal potential to profit at all time.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 8: That gets back to my you know, I think that
Speaker 8: people that have more time, you know, obviously should be rewarded,
Speaker 8: and that people that have more motivation to make hey,
Speaker 8: what with the time that they do have, you know,
Speaker 8: to get back to Josh, is like, if you only
Speaker 8: have an hour, you know, if you log in with
Speaker 8: just an hour to play, and like four of your
Speaker 8: brands need a fifth to run a dungeon, and they
Speaker 8: can summon you, like, you know, you should be able
Speaker 8: to get some in and do that dungeon with them
Speaker 8: in under an hour. But you know, in order to
Speaker 8: facilitate that not happening, you have to change the way
Speaker 8: the classic works drastically, like travel times and all that stuff.
Speaker 8: And you know, I know that the friction thing comes
Speaker 8: up a lot, and there is a debate to be
Speaker 8: had about how much friction is good and bad and whatever,
Speaker 8: But I just don't think that you want to go
Speaker 8: changing kind of the fundamentals of what we're all kind
Speaker 8: of accustomed to already, so that those are things that
Speaker 8: I'm like lyre to touch on.
Speaker 1: But then we're here here.
Speaker 2: Oh god, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I apologize,
Speaker 2: but I just want to second here to clarify me, just.
Speaker 8: Because right here mention that he you know, there are
Speaker 8: activities that you can do that improve your character within
Speaker 8: an hour, Like you could do two PvP matches, right,
Speaker 8: you could do like two rathi basins, or like two
Speaker 8: worse on culchrees or something like that.
Speaker 1: So it's not like every door needs to be closed
Speaker 1: off to you.
Speaker 8: But you know, I do think that like the amount
Speaker 8: of things that you can do to improve your character
Speaker 8: should kind of be tied to the amount of time
Speaker 8: that you can spend, and that the longer that you
Speaker 8: should be able to spend that, the more you should
Speaker 8: get rewarded.
Speaker 1: Oh don't, I don't quibble with that. I think that's perfect.
Speaker 1: An ArkOS would have just fucking exploded hearing you say
Speaker 1: that he loves that, DAC, I don't.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is my point is not to lock
Speaker 1: that off what you've just suggested, but also not to
Speaker 1: give nothing to the people with no I mean sorry,
Speaker 1: I head up with this. Okay, if you have no
Speaker 1: time to play, well that is problematic. But if you
Speaker 1: can play in little busts still have something to be
Speaker 1: able to chase.
Speaker 2: So DC, I agree with you.
Speaker 13: If you look back at the chat, it with sarcasm
Speaker 13: the way I was saying, like everyone should have the
Speaker 13: same shit for having that, I'm just completely going after
Speaker 13: majors and Paladin's like beating a dead horse. I don't
Speaker 13: understand why they've kept it this way for so long
Speaker 13: and they've only touched on it a few times where
Speaker 13: they've tweaked their a Wii farming like remember and sod
Speaker 13: and some they fucked over mages and valleys and it's
Speaker 13: still to.
Speaker 1: This day like that, I don't remember, like all the dramas.
Speaker 13: So they made it of the mobs teleport on you
Speaker 13: if you tried cutting them. They made it so that
Speaker 13: they break at Staremans.
Speaker 2: So they tried. I give them credit for trying.
Speaker 13: My thing is, like you said, I want everyone's effort
Speaker 13: to be rewarded for their level of effort. I guess
Speaker 13: I can't extrapolate it on my wording there, but I
Speaker 13: want it to show that you tried, that you put
Speaker 13: in the effort, and in relation to that, I think
Speaker 13: the possibility for profit should be in relation percentage wise.
Speaker 13: So no, I don't think like a level one should
Speaker 13: be able to get a little sixty epic and go
Speaker 13: get a ship ton of.
Speaker 2: Money for it.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's what you just fucking said.
Speaker 7: In it.
Speaker 10: I'ming what problem.
Speaker 1: Are we trying to solve here? Nonly don't don't jumping
Speaker 1: here people, gigantle, you're on You're on a rabbit hole.
Speaker 13: Morning all and majors specifically for profit.
Speaker 2: I think that's the issue, all right, but.
Speaker 8: I don't really take an issue with that. I think
Speaker 8: that's like something that's unique to the class, right, and
Speaker 8: then all the other classes have to come up with
Speaker 8: creative solutions.
Speaker 1: To I'm going to jump in well, I'm gonna jump
Speaker 1: in here. We are not falling down the gigant or
Speaker 1: rabbit hole, all right, point noted point discussed point over.
Speaker 1: We are not doing an hour on this kind of
Speaker 1: what if anyway. What I might actually do is we
Speaker 1: might start to wrap up because I'm getting very hungry
Speaker 1: and I want to go play drums. Is there any
Speaker 1: final epic points we have to get out from the
Speaker 1: news this week or from any I hope this is
Speaker 1: in classic plus kind of angles.
Speaker 5: Mine is far from epic. It's more like a common
Speaker 5: level of thing that I wish was in the game.
Speaker 5: It's from Epoch and it's the tiniest little flavor thing
Speaker 5: on the planet. But they made it so whatever you
Speaker 5: were killing is what would drop. So if you were
Speaker 5: killing a caster, it would only drop cast a gear.
Speaker 5: If you were killing a MA league kind of mob,
Speaker 5: it would only drop the league get and I just
Speaker 5: thought that was just such a lovely little thing that
Speaker 5: the things actually dropped what they were supposed to drop off.
Speaker 5: I just liked it it as flavor, It.
Speaker 1: Was fun, fair enough DC. Any final thoughts, I don't know.
Speaker 8: I I think everything that I would want to say
Speaker 8: about like Classic Plus is kind of pie in the sky,
Speaker 8: And really it really hinges on Blizzard just doing.
Speaker 1: More quality assurance.
Speaker 8: You know, we always talk about like protecting the players
Speaker 8: from themselves or that's kind of their philosophy is that
Speaker 8: they I feel like they used to do that. More
Speaker 8: is kind of protect the players from themselves. And I
Speaker 8: just think that there's been a lot of really weird
Speaker 8: habits and things that have been developed over time that
Speaker 8: create a lot of degenerat Like one thing I was
Speaker 8: thinking about with Antecedent's remark there was, you know there
Speaker 8: are items in the game, like edge Master's handguards right
Speaker 8: that are like, for whatever reason, have just become this
Speaker 8: like marquee item over the players gaining knowledge, and they
Speaker 8: drop from like every every mob and that level range
Speaker 8: or whatever. But that it does create this like you know,
Speaker 8: that's the thing that like gives the incentive for bots
Speaker 8: to like float under a Scarlet Monastery and like loot
Speaker 8: chests and do all this weird shit, And I wish
Speaker 8: that there was just something that they could do and
Speaker 8: that they would make it kind of a priority to
Speaker 8: snuff things out that have developed over time that are
Speaker 8: just really degenerated and make the players behave in like
Speaker 8: really weird ways, because it does break the immersion of
Speaker 8: this being like a fantasy world that we spend our
Speaker 8: time in and it instead becomes kind of like a
Speaker 8: economy simulator or just this weird like race to the
Speaker 8: bottom kind of capitalistic thing that the game didn't like
Speaker 8: used to be. And I don't know if they will,
Speaker 8: and maybe just like the best that we can hope
Speaker 8: for is that they add so much like additional kind
Speaker 8: of layers of gameplay that it is like a distraction
Speaker 8: from those kind of things, or at least, you know,
Speaker 8: makes those things like less prevalent, So that would be
Speaker 8: kind of I know that the Blizzard deves do sometimes
Speaker 8: listen to these podcasts, so like, I really hope that
Speaker 8: they kind of like got their ducks in a row
Speaker 8: on like snuffing out some of those grease fires that
Speaker 8: are all over the world of Warcraft landscape. You know,
Speaker 8: I think that if you again, if you just gave
Speaker 8: us vanilla classes and good new zones and then you
Speaker 8: spend the rest of the project budget, I'm eliminating all
Speaker 8: the bot and degenerate behavior that is, like, you know,
Speaker 8: rife within the player base. Now, I think I think
Speaker 8: that you'd have a smash product on your hands and
Speaker 8: and people be willing to pay sixty.
Speaker 1: Dollars box price for it.
Speaker 8: But you know, that's that's where I'm at.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, all right, guys, look we might wrap it
Speaker 1: up there. That's been a really good one. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for today. Can I just end on this note?
Speaker 1: Do you guys realize how ridiculously close Please Con is?
Speaker 1: Like where we're two and a half months away? Now
Speaker 1: we're ten Wait, like, what are we off to the
Speaker 1: ten week mark? Let me double check here? When is it?
Speaker 1: It's eleven twelfth of September. There, you guys three months away?
Speaker 1: Well hang on, look at one, two, three, four, six, seven,
Speaker 1: eight eleven twelve. We have twelve weeks away from please Con.
Speaker 1: That is three months.
Speaker 8: Pretty cool, so I said earlier, the time in which
Speaker 8: they dropped these quote unquote leaks or whatever is very
Speaker 8: percon If they were trying to do like a quarter
Speaker 8: level of marketing and hype, right, Yeah, Like the Monday,
Speaker 8: the Monday of the beginning of twelve weeks, they dropped
Speaker 8: these fucking you know, these very subtle breadcrumbs of like
Speaker 8: what could be happening. I think that that's what really
Speaker 8: flipped me over on. You know, this could be the
Speaker 8: reality that we've all been speculating. Yeah, compared to any
Speaker 8: anything else, it just seems all way too serendipitous to
Speaker 8: be coincidence.
Speaker 1: Campcy's doing the thing that I mentioned on the last episode,
Speaker 1: where at a certain point it might be some people
Speaker 1: might consider taking a bit of a break to whet
Speaker 1: their whistle for Classic Plus, not that it's mandatory for
Speaker 1: some people, but some people never have their wow flame extinguished.
Speaker 1: So I totally get that. But I've definitely done that.
Speaker 1: I haven't played much well. I've been tooling around with
Speaker 1: the CATA private server over the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: and that's just given me something to do, not too serious.
Speaker 1: I will dive a little bit back into TBC now
Speaker 1: that I've got more time up my sleeves. I'll dabble
Speaker 1: here and there no promises we'll see what happens. But
Speaker 1: I now that we're coming into like serious like I said,
Speaker 1: twelve weeks away from Blizcon's serious time. I you know,
Speaker 1: if this product is coming out in like October November,
Speaker 1: I'll want to give myself, yeah, like two to three
Speaker 1: months of like a good like wet the wow whistle
Speaker 1: thing and maybe sort of starve myself a little bit.
Speaker 1: We shall see. But yeah, guys, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for everything, all you guys who contributed Anti John DC, Giganta,
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, and obviously to Blaster who is so fantastic earlier.
Speaker 1: And we shall see you guys later. And that's been
Speaker 1: Countdown to Classic for the day. Everyone, Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening along to all of that. Of course,
Speaker 1: this would not be happening without the following amazing people
Speaker 1: who are so patient with me, riding with me through
Speaker 1: these month long gaps between episodes to still support what
Speaker 1: we do here at Countdown to Classic. They are Flowsy B.
Speaker 1: Bucker Ham, Honey Badger, Grimois Plays, all the Mighty Doloman,
Speaker 1: Jaron h Skate, Campsey and Tanyon, And thank you so
Speaker 1: much to all the five dollars, two dollars and one
Speaker 1: dollar patrons as well. Thank you so much, guys, and
Speaker 1: we'll see you next time. I don't countdown a classic.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll know more. We shall see