WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.480 So we've heard throughout the conference how important it is 2 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.799 that we impact patients. How we get patients medicines they need, 3 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:11.160 how we bring them access to clinical trials. If you 4 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.560 take that stake out, hold a group out of the equation, 5 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.480 I think the next most impactful relationship you could possibly 6 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.839 have to influence that goal of bringing medicines to patients 7 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:24.640 and bringing trials to patients is the site sponsor relationship. 8 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:27.519 So we're going to focus our panel on solutions to 9 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:29.440 address some of the challenges that get in the way 10 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:32.039 day to day when we're trying to work together as 11 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:36.560 sponsors and sites. Now we've had some very lively panel 12 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:39.640 prep calls, and one of the things I was thinking 13 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:43.479 about as I'm watching the Olympics and Paralympics the last 14 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:46.240 couple of months was how to referee and how to 15 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:47.920 rain this in a little bit. And one of the 16 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:49.759 things that struck me as a data of a couple 17 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:52.159 of field hockey players and just watching those sports was 18 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.159 how in the Olympics and the Paralympics they use cards 19 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:57.719 to communicate, right, whether it's a challenge card or a 20 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:02.280 penalty card or whatnot. So today, and I apologize for 21 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:04.640 all of the innovative technology suppliers are going to get 22 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:05.959 a cringe when we talk about doing this. 23 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:08.120 We're going to use physical cards. 24 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:09.879 We've got a stack of green and a stack of 25 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.319 red cards, and we're going to challenge our panel today 26 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:16.159 that as we raise a challenge, they take a red card, 27 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:20.079 but that when a challenge is presented, we then have 28 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:23.120 to present solutions to that challenge and we get awarded 29 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:24.920 some green cards. And the goal by the end of 30 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:27.959 this panel will be that we have an overwhelming amount 31 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:31.079 of green cards to show rather than red and pull 32 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:33.159 them up maybe in the final few minutes in a 33 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:38.040 very analog dashboard of red and green. So with that, 34 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:40.719 and coming off of some of the panels that we 35 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:43.680 heard earlier this morning, we spoke a lot about people 36 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:45.879 and a lot about the next generation. I think it 37 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.079 was in Deirdre Bivard's closing comments. I think she spoke 38 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.359 a little bit about how we bring in the next 39 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:52.760 generation of professionals. 40 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:55.159 So I wanted to start with people for our panel. 41 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:59.959 And maybe we could start with Lisa, maybe you could 42 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.239 jump in on this one first, and then we'll probably 43 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:04.439 have everyone way on and this one as such a 44 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:08.560 hot topic. But when we think about the challenge that 45 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:12.159 we're presented with at sites as it pertains to people 46 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.280 to acquiring and retaining people. How do you see that 47 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:17.199 challenge and what are some of the solutions that you 48 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:19.680 think are out there that we could put into practice. 49 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:20.199 To address it. 50 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.599 Thank you, Dennis so Lisa KINI great to meet everybody. 51 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:26.639 I work for the START Center for Cancer Research, and 52 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:29.240 that is a network of sites, so heavily steeped in 53 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:32.639 the challenge of keeping good people at sites. I've also 54 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:35.840 worked in organizations that are academic health centers that are 55 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:37.439 also doing clinical. 56 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:39.520 Care combined with the work of research. 57 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:44.719 And I don't think that any of you are unfamiliar 58 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:47.319 with the fact that research is perpetually unique, right, and 59 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:49.759 we're research and we do it differently, and it requires 60 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:52.280 a different level of leadership and leaders who really understand 61 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:55.159 the challenges of the people who are working at the sites. 62 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:57.919 And I don't have any quick solutions. 63 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.639 I've got a lot of long, longer term, longer horizon solutions. 64 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.400 It really is just give the people a place where 65 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.120 they can do research and they're supported in the specific 66 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:09.439 activities that they need to do to do research. So 67 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:11.960 really focus on retention and I think you get a 68 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:16.240 group of people in research that are really passionate about 69 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.000 the science and also the care delivery. That's the people 70 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:20.680 that you have at the sites, and they want to 71 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.039 be there, right And I know there's a lot of 72 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:26.039 great jobs in industry and people who are great at 73 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:27.919 that and want to do that will find their way there. 74 00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:30.319 A lot of people who work at the sites. 75 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:32.479 Want to be there and just want an infrastructure and 76 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:35.599 a leadership team that supports them. And so it requires 77 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:39.360 having the middle management team that really understand what the 78 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:41.719 work of the CRC is and how that's different from 79 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:44.479 the data manager and how that's different from the pharmacy 80 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:47.960 tech and they're getting really specific about what the job 81 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:50.759 needs to be. We're not good at measuring what their 82 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:54.719 units of service are right and knowing what each job 83 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:57.719 needs to be and reassessing that as the protocol has changed. 84 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:00.439 The protocols are changing, and so it's just keeping finger 85 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:01.199 on that pulse. 86 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:06.319 So I'd say great managers role delineation a lot of ways, 87 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:10.919 a focus on retention more so than recruitment, and thinking 88 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.520 through career levels and how we can move pharmacy techs 89 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.800 up a ladder and how we can move research coordinators 90 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:21.319 up a ladder and also not let the jobs get 91 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:26.120 so big for those patient care facing people that we 92 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:29.480 forget that they have an impossible job. So like this 93 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.720 constant assessment of what's the highest and best use of 94 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.680 our licensed team, what's the highest and best use of 95 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.879 our research experience team, and calling away all the junk 96 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:42.319 that they don't need to be doing and finding the 97 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.279 right role to do that. So splitting the roles very finely, 98 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.800 focusing on retention, focusing on career ladders, making sure you 99 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:53.240 have managers who get research and who want to support 100 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:55.959 a team of people that want to do research. 101 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.279 So a very deliberate focus on career path thing and 102 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:03.079 career development, really elevating the role of folks at the site. 103 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.959 I think that earns a green card to give out 104 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:07.240 that oh wow stage if I try. 105 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:08.680 So. 106 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:13.519 What struck me is that there's also a parallel opportunity 107 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.000 for potentially and Eileen, I think if you could explain 108 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:18.759 a little bit perhaps in your role insite partnerships, how 109 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:21.160 as a sponsor we may parallel some of the same 110 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:24.399 solutions that Lisa was kind enough to share. 111 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:30.240 Sure, so as a as a sponsor, you know, obviously 112 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:33.920 working with the sites, you want to have a nice 113 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.360 relationship and you want to really listen to your sites 114 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:40.920 and try to make adjustments where you can to make 115 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:44.800 the burden on the sites less and whatever, you know, 116 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.240 way you can do that in terms of having a 117 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:50.560 system with a single sign on if that's something you 118 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:52.839 know that that is something that we hear a lot 119 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.600 from sites that there's just so many systems and so 120 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:58.639 many processes and how can we you know, how you know, 121 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.879 can't you make this easy for us? So I think 122 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.000 not only CSL Barn, but I think a lot of 123 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:09.639 the pharmaceutical companies are looking to try to take that 124 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:11.600 burden and lessen it for the sites. 125 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.480 Tracy, if I could ask you, yeah, Bearinger, are you 126 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:18.240 creating roles? 127 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.399 Are you taking similar approaches? How are you upscaling your 128 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.639 workforce to support sites? 129 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:26.439 It's actually not necessarily upskilling, but it's reflecting on the 130 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.800 points that have been made both from a site perspective 131 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:35.240 and from a sponsor perspective. It's really listening and working together. 132 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.439 We've spoken a lot about co creation with patients, but 133 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.800 we're actually also focusing on co creation with sites. So 134 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:46.959 taking the time to get the feedback, really understanding what's 135 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:51.519 important to them and seeing whether or not by implementing 136 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:56.759 certain solutions, we're actually addressing the core like the personal 137 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.600 problem that people have with the personal challenge that they 138 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:03.279 have could be as simple as identifying a single point 139 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:08.199 of contact for support questions. But it's also recognizing that 140 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.800 there isn't a one size fits all because the sites 141 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:15.079 are all very unique, their focus is slightly different, their 142 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.680 management is slightly different, and so we actually have to 143 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.920 look at what's the as far as we can can 144 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:23.240 we actually take it to that level where it is 145 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:27.839 a site specific solution within you know, the broad range 146 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:28.759 of what we can do. 147 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:32.600 Excellent, So please take a couple of cards and share 148 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:37.160 them with Eileen as well. Chris sites site specific solutions. 149 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:40.720 I see nodding quite a bit as Tracy was describing that, 150 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:43.759 what's your your reaction to that, as as someone who 151 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.319 works at a site, someone who has oversight over the 152 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:49.240 research at Sydney Kimmel, how does that resonate with you? 153 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:50.079 Sure? 154 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.079 Thank you so, Kristin Hermann, Executive director of the Clinical 155 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:57.040 Trials Office at Sydney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center, And I 156 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:01.560 would say you know, I've been to the cancer center 157 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.759 at Sidney Kimmel for the last two years, and when 158 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:09.040 I started in the position, we had forty percent turnover annually, 159 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:12.399 and that will crush us, and it will crush your trials. 160 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:15.800 They're not going to get done. And so you know, 161 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:18.720 that was the immediate concern and the fire that we 162 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.000 needed to fight. And within eighteen months we had that 163 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:27.199 turnover down to thirteen percent, and so that's a big difference. 164 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:31.600 But retention is the key indicator right over time, and 165 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:33.200 so we're still looking at that retention. 166 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:34.799 But some of the. 167 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.000 Things I think that we're really helpful. You had touched 168 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.320 on previously about these generational differences, the differences in the 169 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.559 folks that we are hiring and recognizing who they are 170 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.000 and what their background is and what they care about, 171 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.679 and so you know, this youngest generation perhaps doesn't maybe 172 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:53.720 even think that retirement's going to be a reasonable option 173 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.240 for them, and so thinking that they're going to want 174 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:59.960 to work overtime for you is maybe, you know, not. 175 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:02.960 A reality. 176 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:06.440 While we have some of our staff who've been with 177 00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:11.399 us longer and very much you know, maybe that's like 178 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.759 our clinicians that are kind of mid career, our managers 179 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:18.600 that are mid career, who really are going to want 180 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.720 to be moving up. And so I think taking the 181 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.480 consideration who you're hiring and what their interests are, and 182 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:29.200 then customizing the job to a degree and the opportunities 183 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:31.840 to their needs. So whether they're desiring to go back 184 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:34.720 to school and you can kind of highlight those opportunities, 185 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:38.559 whether they're looking for specific experiences. There will be people 186 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.799 who want to go back to school and get an MBA, 187 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.840 and then I want to put them on connecting them 188 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:47.559 with our finance folks and our contracts folks. They still 189 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:49.679 may be a data manager, but they can learn a 190 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:53.639 whole lot more about the business internally and then help 191 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.120 them to sit in on sponsor meetings, help them sit 192 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:59.639 down on budget negotiation. And so I think developing people 193 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:03.080 that way and customizing the opportunities to their interests isn't 194 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.360 a real opportunity. And so I kind of say, you know, 195 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:11.440 I think that there are additionally opportunities, you know, sponsor 196 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.559 and site, especially academic site opportunities that I think we 197 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:20.159 have yet to explore. This kind of like symbiotic desire 198 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:25.480 to keep our trials staffed and recognizing that there will 199 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:28.639 be people looking to build their careers both in academia 200 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:32.000 but also an industry, and so how can we share better? 201 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.240 How can we know that as an academic center, we 202 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.720 are primed to educate and train people, but we all 203 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:42.480 do better when we know a little bit more about 204 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:45.519 each other. And so, you know, we did have somebody 205 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:48.360 on our team who started as a coordinator. She ended 206 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.000 up going to industry. She worked as a monitor and 207 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:55.240 she decided that you know, she had experience there that 208 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:58.120 she liked, but she really missed the patient interaction. And 209 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:01.279 she came back and it has been so valuable to 210 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:05.759 us to have her insider industry experience on our team. 211 00:11:06.039 --> 00:11:10.639 That's improved the quality of our monitoring visits, our documentation, 212 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.399 and so I think that there's also an opportunity for 213 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.840 us to explore that further. 214 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.120 So the common theme I think we hear please take 215 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:21.679 a card. I think that's an excellent solution is really 216 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:26.759 creating persons specific approaches right tailoring some of the experience. Chris, 217 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:28.320 I want to bring you into this because I think 218 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.759 the thread that I heard through that was the experience 219 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:35.840 at the site, whether that's a sponsor creating that experience, 220 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:40.639 by being more site centric, whether that's the leadership at 221 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.200 the site or the site network, providing professional development and 222 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.000 things that create a better employment experience. What are some 223 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:49.080 things from your perspective if you could share a little 224 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.279 bit about your role then that you see that might 225 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.360 create a more positive work experience at the sites. 226 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:55.600 Yeah. Sure, So. 227 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.679 I am Chris mcnairm, the director of Data Science also 228 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:01.759 at the Singe Chemical Comprehensive Center, and so in the 229 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:06.240 clinical trial space, my team leads the clinical trial analytics 230 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:09.000 and the reporting groups. But I think one of the things, 231 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.799 you know, I think kudos to Christen when when she 232 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:15.720 came in, was how can we take all of these 233 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:19.519 pain points from the staff, right, and you know, automate 234 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:21.919 some of them, right. Nobody wants to spend their days 235 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.960 chasing people down through emails and manually filling out, you know, 236 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.360 word documents that they have to chief back through. So 237 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.039 it was basically tell us what you are doing repetitively 238 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.840 on a day today. And this is kind of between people, 239 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.240 but also between our different disease groups. Why are we 240 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:41.279 reinventing the wheel between all of our different disease groups 241 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:44.879 from study feasibility to startup to all of these different pieces, 242 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.720 and so it was really going back to see, you know, 243 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.159 what can we create so that people don't have to 244 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:53.600 spend their day doing these manual, repetitive tasks and can 245 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.360 actually spend it doing things that they enjoy. And I 246 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:58.960 think one of the things for us that you know, 247 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.919 I don't think this solution has to be the sexiest 248 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:03.679 thing is in the world, as long as it gets 249 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.039 the job done. And so we've been able to automate 250 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:08.639 a ton of just the you know, normal day to 251 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.279 day operations just using you know, data capture and you 252 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:15.039 know reporting software, and I think that's been kind of 253 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.879 a huge relief to the folks that have been involved. 254 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:20.320 And then I think it starts to create this feed 255 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:23.120 forward loop. I think initially, you know, change is kind 256 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:25.480 of hard for everybody. So even if it's like we're 257 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:27.720 trying to make your life easier by getting you know, 258 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:29.759 these papers out of your hand, it's a little bit 259 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:31.960 of book. Have always used this paper? Why why you're 260 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.679 taking this paper away from me? But I think once 261 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.799 you kind of change that mindset, then people will come 262 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.840 to us more to kind of proactively say, hey, I'm 263 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:43.960 doing this thing. It's kind of a pain point for me. 264 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:47.919 It seems similar to other processes that we've automated. Can 265 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:50.559 you help us fix this? So I think that's been 266 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:53.360 very helpful and I think also rewarding for the team 267 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:56.080 to kind of see what they've built be used on 268 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:56.720 the day to day. 269 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:00.519 Well, I have a question for the panel, but I 270 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.440 think this is for everyone on the panel. How are 271 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.360 those sorts of situations being surfaced back to sponsors? I 272 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:08.600 bet Tracy or Eileen, you'd love to hear where a 273 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.519 site has figured out how to do that and share 274 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:12.759 it with every site you work with. But has anyone 275 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:15.759 had that experience? Is anyone having that dialogue within their 276 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:18.639 relationships to share those sorts of things. 277 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.440 I'm going to say for our part, we sometimes hear 278 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:31.440 it a little more randomly. Ad hoc. We systematically get 279 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:37.639 feedback on the challenges, but we are yet to see if, 280 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:40.879 for example, we start to see in the uptick in 281 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.720 let's say there is a challenge associated with the use 282 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:48.320 of technology, and we maybe see this consistently coming back 283 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:52.279 from our sites. If we see next time round that 284 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.440 this is scoring higher in the trial experience, survice that 285 00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:00.240 we will regularly be sending out we already know. Yes, 286 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.159 there's certain things that we would expect maybe to see 287 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.039 based on what we're doing. But I think it's going 288 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.080 to be an interesting thing if we not necessarily made 289 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:14.159 any changes, do we then have the mechanism or it's 290 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.600 worth us taking it back to say, Okay, we need 291 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:19.960 to put in place the mechanism for following up if 292 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:26.879 we've got this let's say, unprecedented change coming back in 293 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:29.080 the feedback, because it may not be anything that we've done, 294 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.200 it may be something that they've done on the site themselves. 295 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.720 So I think it's a feedback loope that we need 296 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.519 to systematically put in place to make sure that we're 297 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.279 actually recognizing the actions that not just that we're taking, 298 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.519 but also that the sites are taking. 299 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:47.519 I think from my standpoint, it's really tempting to. 300 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:52.840 Find an automated solution that's going to fix your problem, 301 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:54.879 right because we've got a ton of problems, and it 302 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.039 would be so easy to say, if we just had 303 00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:00.399 this system, this problem will go away, and times out 304 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.919 of ten, in my experience, there's an issue with the 305 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:06.519 with the functional process right where just something that is 306 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.720 not sexy at all is broken and you've just got 307 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:12.720 to like roll your sleeves up and resist the urge 308 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.120 to find a thingy that'll fix it, and just say, 309 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:17.120 how are we going to fix the process and kind 310 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:20.320 of do the hard work of getting the functional process 311 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:20.879 ready to go. 312 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:22.679 Once you really know that. 313 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.799 Your functional process is working, then yes, absolutely automate. But 314 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.399 I think you really need from the site standpoint at 315 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.399 least to kick tires on is tech really going to 316 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:32.840 fix this? 317 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:35.120 Or do we have some hard work to do that's. 318 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.720 Going to require change and multiple departments at the table 319 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:40.559 and a little bit of arm wrestling for us to 320 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:42.840 decide here's how we're going to do it. And in 321 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:46.759 those cases like our drug accountability platform, I think is 322 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:49.480 probably the best one where we were sure, sure sure 323 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:52.840 that we had a solution that would really help us 324 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.720 as the site and then we've you know, deployed that 325 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.080 at all of our sites and we love it in 326 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:01.759 our pharmacists are all always perfect when it comes to 327 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.559 audits and monitors, you know, because we've got a very 328 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:08.920 fit for purpose solution. But it took us several years 329 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.839 of ground lane to go, Okay, now we're ready to 330 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.000 put this on a flywheel. 331 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:16.480 Yeah, I just want to echo those sentiments to about 332 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:21.240 needing to have a standard process across all of your 333 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.359 different pieces, right, because I think you made a great 334 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.119 point about no amount of technology in the world is 335 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.119 going to fix a process that is not standard and 336 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.880 is not working already. 337 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:32.079 Right. 338 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.720 You need a place where you say, here's our process, 339 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.480 and here is the exact area where this technology is 340 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:40.039 actually going to help us. Otherwise you're just going to 341 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.160 have a different technology for every single different problem that 342 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.279 comes up, which is just not going to work for 343 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:47.799 the entirety to site. 344 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:48.440 Yeah. 345 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.160 So, and I can add to that because Chris and 346 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:54.319 I have worked on specific projects and I'm imagining he's 347 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:59.079 thinking about specifically clinical trial matching platforms, which we've explored 348 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:04.880 and are about. But we recognized after meeting with several 349 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.720 vendors that we actually had our own work to do 350 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.480 before we were primed to really take advantage of the 351 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.640 technology that exists there just in our own process, and 352 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:20.680 that taking on the technology, you know, really that wasn't 353 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:22.400 going to solve our process issue. 354 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:25.039 We need to solve our process issue first. 355 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.359 And kind of figure out those customized roles and how 356 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:30.839 they're doing the work today and then be able to 357 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:36.160 kind of exploit that knowledge base and primate for the technology. 358 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.160 That's fascinating. I think it makes me wonder and cringe 359 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.279 a little bit as a sponsor just when we impose 360 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:46.960 technology on a site hearing that feedback, you know, how 361 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.119 well do we know and are we listening to hear 362 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:49.839 what that might. 363 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:52.880 Do to their processes of their day to day. 364 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:55.960 Aileen, I don't know if through your work in site partnerships, 365 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.559 if you've had those dialogue you mentioned single sign on earlier, 366 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:03.519 are there any solutions maybe to how you've seen this approach, 367 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:05.640 you know, in terms of technology of sites. 368 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.519 In terms of technology, I have had feedback from sites 369 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:16.119 obviously about all of the technology that sponsor imposes upon sites. 370 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.799 And the thing is to continue to listen to the 371 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.920 sites and obviously there are certain things that we have 372 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:27.759 to have in place, but there are definitely ways that 373 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:32.640 we can improve how we're deploying them to the sites 374 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:37.880 and what we're requiring of the sites, and sponsors should 375 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:43.480 continue to look for solutions with vendors to make these 376 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:47.960 processes and technologies easier on the sites whenever possible. 377 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:50.039 Yay, love that comment. 378 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.440 So any tech solutions providers face you know in the 379 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.480 audience please take heed to that. One of the things 380 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.119 that struck me, h listening to presentation yesterday about a 381 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.079 topic that's near and dear to me is it was 382 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:07.079 around vendor qualification and around thinking differently about how we 383 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.880 do that and centralizing that I was it struck me 384 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.279 as very analogous to when we go out we qualify sites, 385 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:16.319 and we do pssbs and you know, pre study visits. 386 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.119 And all of these things are there areas there If. 387 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.359 I could challenge the panel to think about where there 388 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:26.039 might be opportunities to streamline, whether it includes technology or 389 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:27.880 process changes. 390 00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:33.640 I think definitely. I've had I've heard multiple complaints from sites. 391 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:37.319 You know, we were just working on the study with you, 392 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.640 Why do you need to do another qualification visit? I know, 393 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.400 you know, one thing is an soop where if we're 394 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:46.720 you know, if we recently worked with the site, then 395 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:52.519 the PSB visit on site can be waived. So that's 396 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.759 one of the ways. But I think there are ways 397 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:59.640 for technology to help with ps PSBs and site qualification visits, 398 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:04.079 and I think sponsors should explore them a little more. 399 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.559 We put a lot of thought at start into the 400 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.880 study what we would say the study activation process, but 401 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.000