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<v Speaker 2>Should we go nickel back?

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<v Speaker 1>Here? Is that?

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<v Speaker 3>Is that?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that what we're doing?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, old Ken Palmer, I shout out to Ken Palm.

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<v Speaker 1>Our music bumps on the show today are simply songs

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<v Speaker 1>that we think are bad, but millions of other people

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<v Speaker 1>seem to love. We did a little train earlier, came

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<v Speaker 1>back a little nickelback, which one am I missing?

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<v Speaker 2>We did one other. I did imagine dragons.

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<v Speaker 1>You did imagine dragons, which is perfect our next guest.

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<v Speaker 1>As soon as the US Department of Education handed down

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<v Speaker 1>the ruling on the title nine, I guess I'll call

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<v Speaker 1>it guidance. I thought of Amy Donaldson, who joins us

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<v Speaker 1>on a Thursday. Amy, give me one song that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people seem to like and you just think

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<v Speaker 1>is horrible.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh wow, Oh yeah, I'm not prepared for this. My

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<v Speaker 3>musical taste is just not in alignment with anybody I know.

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<v Speaker 3>I grew up listening to classical music and country old

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<v Speaker 3>country music, you know, like Hank william Senior. So I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know things that everybody. I mean, anything by you.

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<v Speaker 2>Too, Okay, all right, okay, fair enough obsession.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying Bono isn't a great human being. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>saying I don't understand the love on the music side.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, fair enough. He that's a great thing

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<v Speaker 1>about Oh, that's a great thing about music. What is

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<v Speaker 1>for some may not be for others.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, how you been? What are you working on?

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<v Speaker 2>What's the latest in the world of Amy Donaldson.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm working on too many things. Some high school investigations.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I've talked about it before, the international students

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<v Speaker 3>coming to the US to play, So still working on that,

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<v Speaker 3>working on a podcast and some stories. It's also probably

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<v Speaker 3>going to be reviving my column in the next little bit,

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<v Speaker 3>so look for that. And working on a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>really cool stuff in women's sports. So and I have

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<v Speaker 3>two fosters who are looking for home. If anybody needs.

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<v Speaker 2>A laugh, Okay, okay, there you go.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, Before we get to the ruling or I guess

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<v Speaker 1>I'll just say the memo from the US Department of

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<v Speaker 1>Education about this new title nine understanding. I did want

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<v Speaker 1>to get your take on the fact that after setting

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<v Speaker 1>a single season record for points and setting a single

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<v Speaker 1>season record for goals scored, and finishing third in the

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<v Speaker 1>West and making the playoffs, although losing in the first round,

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<v Speaker 1>we will not recognize this RSL team that takes the

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<v Speaker 1>pitch in a few weeks. What do you make of

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<v Speaker 1>them really getting rid of most of their attacking players

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<v Speaker 1>and one of their keepers and this new RSL team

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<v Speaker 1>that is going to have a ton of new faces

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<v Speaker 1>coming up in just a few weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I love it. I mean you're still going to

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<v Speaker 3>have Diego Luna. I mean, and if he didn't endear

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<v Speaker 3>himself to this fan base with his performance, was it

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<v Speaker 3>yesterday against Costa Rica? I mean, that was amazing. If

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<v Speaker 3>you weren't a fan before, you have to be a

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<v Speaker 3>fan now playing with it. I guess it's a broken nose.

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<v Speaker 3>He had surgery, I guess afterwards, but in getting an

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<v Speaker 3>assist after the injury, it was crazy. So we still

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<v Speaker 3>have him, We still have justin Glad. I mean, there's

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<v Speaker 3>enough familiar faces. I think I loved Mika. I thought

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<v Speaker 3>he was one of the more dynamic players. I really

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<v Speaker 3>loved him. I like the idea of the new Australian

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<v Speaker 3>kid coming in. I don't know. I mean, I there

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<v Speaker 3>was clearly something off last year. I don't know what

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<v Speaker 3>it was. I wasn't in the locker room, I wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>in any meetings. I think it's I'm excited about it,

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<v Speaker 3>all right.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess we'll see.

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<v Speaker 1>As Kurt Schmidt has said on the show, I'm either

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<v Speaker 1>the dumbest guy alive or the smartest guy alive, So

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<v Speaker 1>we'll have to see kind of everything settles in, all right, Amy,

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<v Speaker 1>It is a new world of college athletics. And I

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<v Speaker 1>continue to use the line that on this show I

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<v Speaker 1>prefer to diagnose and not prognostic aid because trying to

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<v Speaker 1>predict any of this is really really tough. And we

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<v Speaker 1>are awaiting a number of different pieces of guidance and

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<v Speaker 1>legislation to come down that have not come down yet.

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<v Speaker 2>But there were some significant news that came.

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<v Speaker 1>Down last week from the US Department of Education, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'll just simplify it. Essentially, classes future revenue distributions from

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<v Speaker 1>a school to an athlete for his or her nil

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<v Speaker 1>rights is what's called quote financial assistance, which must be

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<v Speaker 1>made proportionally available to both male and female athletes are

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<v Speaker 1>risk violating Title nine. And the simplest way to explain

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<v Speaker 1>this is if you're at a school where fifty percent

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<v Speaker 1>of the athletes are men and fifty percent of the

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<v Speaker 1>athletes are women, half of the revenue has to go

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<v Speaker 1>to both and now this could change. We'll get to

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<v Speaker 1>that in a minute. But what do you make of

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<v Speaker 1>the ruling that came down last week?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I didn't think I thought it was a negotiation

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<v Speaker 3>a settlement. Was it like actually a ruling?

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<v Speaker 2>This was a memo.

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<v Speaker 1>A memo, it's the guidance from the US Department of Education.

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<v Speaker 3>So what happened is they I don't know, because there's

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<v Speaker 3>also been an executive order in the interim that's repealing

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<v Speaker 3>some of the Title nine guidance that was put into

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<v Speaker 3>place recently. So it's very confusing. And I didn't like

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<v Speaker 3>what the NFA did, so they these power conferences is

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<v Speaker 3>part of a lawsuit antitrust lawsuit. They had, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>basically negotiated a settlement, but they didn't tell the plaintiffs

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<v Speaker 3>in the case, the people who were suing, exactly how

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<v Speaker 3>it would work. So I don't know that all the

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<v Speaker 3>administrative code that's going to oversee this has been written.

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<v Speaker 3>I obviously think that you should make the dollars the

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<v Speaker 3>same NIL dollars that are available to men should be

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<v Speaker 3>available to female athletes. The question I have is a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of these NIL deals are funded by private collectives

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<v Speaker 3>and they are they subject now to Title nind are

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<v Speaker 3>they subject to Department of Education rules? And does the

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<v Speaker 3>Trump administration rescinding that titleline guidance that was put into

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<v Speaker 3>place a few months ago, does that change this settlement.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's just an absolute gray mess right now.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think anybody can tell you how it works.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think anybody can tell you how things are

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<v Speaker 3>funded or you know, if I want to sponsor a player,

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<v Speaker 3>I have the right to work with the player that

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<v Speaker 3>I want to sponsor, right So it's they've already talked

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<v Speaker 3>about how this is kind of a freedom of expression issue,

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<v Speaker 3>but I don't know how it's going to work. I

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<v Speaker 3>am really stunned that they came to this agreement without

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<v Speaker 3>some concrete plan in place of how it will actually work.

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<v Speaker 3>Are you just going to guarantee that if a business

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<v Speaker 3>wants to sponsor a men's team, they also have to

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<v Speaker 3>sponsor a women's team Like this has always been the issue.

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<v Speaker 3>This is We've talked about this even when the very

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<v Speaker 3>first deals came in. This is going to get out

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<v Speaker 3>of control. And again, I think we can talk about

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<v Speaker 3>this a couple of weeks ago if you take football

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<v Speaker 3>out of the equation, it's better. But more women play

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<v Speaker 3>college sports than men. So unless you've eliminated some teams

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<v Speaker 3>to in there at some schools, which has happened, you're

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<v Speaker 3>going to have women are going to require more than

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<v Speaker 3>fifty percent of the money in most cases.

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<v Speaker 2>So a couple things here.

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<v Speaker 1>As we have talked about, the NCAA and the Power

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<v Speaker 1>Conferences have agreed to allow each school to share up

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<v Speaker 1>to twenty point five million in direct payments to athletes,

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<v Speaker 1>that is via name, image and likeness.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's going to become a reality. I believe that

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<v Speaker 2>is July.

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<v Speaker 1>And in most cases athletic directors have already come out

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<v Speaker 1>publicly and said they intend to provide about seventy five

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<v Speaker 1>percent of that money to the football players.

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<v Speaker 2>So back to the whole, like, is this a ruling,

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<v Speaker 2>is this just a memo?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, ultimately, the Department of Education is in charge of,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, enforcing Title nine guidelines. So this is them

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<v Speaker 1>saying this is what we believe you have to do

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<v Speaker 1>to stay in the space where you're properly handling Title nine,

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<v Speaker 1>and they are in charge of making sure that this

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<v Speaker 1>does come down. Trump's nominee to lead the Department of

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<v Speaker 1>Education is Linda McMahon, who is the estranged wife of

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<v Speaker 1>WWE founder Vince McMahon. Because nothing is real, So what

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<v Speaker 1>are some of the next steps here? Do you believe

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<v Speaker 1>that once you know, Trump has now been sworn in,

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<v Speaker 1>he's now the president again, once Linda McMahon takes over

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Education, are you aware of what those

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<v Speaker 1>next steps could be to maybe roll this thing back.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's not Linda that's going to have to write

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<v Speaker 3>the you know, the administrative rules. I mean, she'll have

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<v Speaker 3>to oversee it, is it?

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<v Speaker 2>Richly clare?

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<v Speaker 3>I hope that we can only hope because, like I said,

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<v Speaker 3>I do like that nothing's real. But I think the

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<v Speaker 3>other thing is that they just rescinded that executive order

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<v Speaker 3>that over basically, the Biden administration had overhauled and created

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<v Speaker 3>a whole bunch of new guidances for Title NIND and

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<v Speaker 3>all of those have been rescinded with a new executive order.

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<v Speaker 3>And so I don't know if here's the thing, So

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<v Speaker 3>say the Department the schools try to abide by this

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<v Speaker 3>agreement right and start writing administrative rules that will would

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<v Speaker 3>oversee it. If you sus and say they give seventy

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<v Speaker 3>five percent of the money to football and then the

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<v Speaker 3>twenty five percent is split between the other sports. And

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<v Speaker 3>the women find this problem, it's not fair and they

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<v Speaker 3>want to challenge it. They normally the route they would

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<v Speaker 3>go to challenge it, their website doesn't exist anymore. So

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<v Speaker 3>the EEOC Equal Opportunity whatever whatever that stands for. They're

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<v Speaker 3>the ones that determine if the rules have been violated.

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<v Speaker 3>If there is a case there, you cannot sue without

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<v Speaker 3>permission from them. So I have no idea. I mean, like,

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<v Speaker 3>if nothing is real, I don't know what's going to happen.

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<v Speaker 3>But I don't know if they don't abide by these rules,

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<v Speaker 3>if they don't abide by the settlement, I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>who's going to enforce it. Because what normally would happen

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<v Speaker 3>if you and I agree to a legal settlement and

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<v Speaker 3>you don't abide by it, is that I would go

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<v Speaker 3>back to the judge or back to the court, or

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<v Speaker 3>back to the organization that negotiated is the NCAAA or

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<v Speaker 3>the Department of Education, say he's not playing by the

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<v Speaker 3>rules that he agreed to play by. But if that

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<v Speaker 3>no longer allows you to enforce equity rules that are

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<v Speaker 3>gender based. How do you enforce it?

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<v Speaker 1>Good question and one that I clearly do not have

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<v Speaker 1>the answer to, or else I probably just would have

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<v Speaker 1>said it out loud. So you reference the payments that

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<v Speaker 1>come from booster collectives that are from essentially donors or

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<v Speaker 1>businesses around the market. So the memo it's not as clear.

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<v Speaker 1>And again it is a memo. So here's what it

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<v Speaker 1>says about that. It says the Department does not consider

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<v Speaker 1>money provided by a third party in an NIL deal

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<v Speaker 1>as quote athletic financial assistance. The athletic financial assistance, according

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<v Speaker 1>to the memo, is what has to be split equally,

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<v Speaker 1>so for instance, future revenue sharing payments scholarship dollars. But

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<v Speaker 1>if money from private sources, this is the memo. It's

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<v Speaker 1>directly from the memo. If money from private sources end

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<v Speaker 1>up creating a disparity in an athletic program, it is

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<v Speaker 1>possible that NILE agreements quote quote trigger a school's Title

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<v Speaker 1>nine obligations. But your point, if there's no enforcement, is

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<v Speaker 1>this just all hot air that essentially means nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I mean, so say that that happens. So and

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<v Speaker 3>I can see this happening. So the school is going

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<v Speaker 3>to put the money where the money where it brings

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<v Speaker 3>them money, right, so they're going to promote I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>I just read an ESPN. They just analyzed how the

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<v Speaker 3>Power five conferences promoted men's and women's sports in a

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<v Speaker 3>calendar year, and no surprise, they tweeted and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>talked more about their men's programs than they did their

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<v Speaker 3>women's in eighty five percent of the cases. So my

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<v Speaker 3>issue is if they say, you know, we're just not

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<v Speaker 3>going to do it, We're just you know, we're not

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<v Speaker 3>going to do it, and nobody does anything unless they

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<v Speaker 3>have to. This is really just the way human beings are.

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<v Speaker 3>The reason these rules have existed is because nobody wanted

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<v Speaker 3>women to producipay. We didn't care if they got the

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<v Speaker 3>same amount of money. We didn't care if they got

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<v Speaker 3>an educational opportunity. The rules are here because they wouldn't

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<v Speaker 3>just play nice from the beginning. So now you have

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<v Speaker 3>these rules they're talking about. You know, if these private

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<v Speaker 3>investors create inequity, I guarantee you I can tell you

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<v Speaker 3>that that's how already happening at BUYU. It is already

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<v Speaker 3>creating an inequity the trips you can take, the scholarships

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<v Speaker 3>you can offer, the players you can attract are different.

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<v Speaker 3>For men's women's teams with no mi OL money, with

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<v Speaker 3>no collectives involved. They're absolutely disproportionately in favor of men. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>But who is going to enforce it? Because if I can't,

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<v Speaker 3>if there's nowhere for me to complain, or if they

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<v Speaker 3>are no longer rules that can be enforced that allow

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<v Speaker 3>me to say, Hey, I'm being discriminated on the basis

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<v Speaker 3>of my gender. What is the basis of my discrimination suit?

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<v Speaker 2>Now?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know that there is one, and I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm They're shuddering all the DEI offices, all the offices

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<v Speaker 3>that have anything to do with promoting and helping people

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<v Speaker 3>make sure they're getting fairness from their educational opportunities and

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<v Speaker 3>their athletic opportunities. And so I think that in a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of ways, people are just not even going to

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<v Speaker 3>know what the options are. They're not even going to know.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just like working in a building and you know

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<v Speaker 3>you're the lowest paid person because you're a woman. But

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<v Speaker 3>what do you do about it? Because if you go

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<v Speaker 3>to your boss and say you're not paying me as

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<v Speaker 3>much as you pay them, he's gonna say, fine, go

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<v Speaker 3>get a new job. Go get a job somewhere else. Right, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>the reason the rules are there is because if everyone

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<v Speaker 3>was fair minded, we wouldn't have these issues in the

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<v Speaker 3>first place.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, I'm gonna ask the question Amy to set

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<v Speaker 1>you up that I'm just going to dock shouldn't shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>the bulk of the money go to the sports to

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<v Speaker 1>generate the revenue.

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<v Speaker 3>No, because we tax payers. Public money is being used

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<v Speaker 3>to fund every aspect of those buildings up there. The

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<v Speaker 3>programs were built on the backs of taxpayers of both genders,

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<v Speaker 3>and they you use tax money. I mean, I have

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<v Speaker 3>this beef with all of public investment into money. It

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<v Speaker 3>has to be there has to be a benefit for everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you're going to purposely say we're going to

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<v Speaker 3>just invest in football and not, why am i as?

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<v Speaker 3>Why am I? I mean? I know of athletic programs

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<v Speaker 3>that don't even make money, and they're built on the

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<v Speaker 3>backs of the students that go there to get an education.

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<v Speaker 3>They're built on the backs of the community that houses them,

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<v Speaker 3>that that pays higher property taxes so they can have

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<v Speaker 3>a system of a higher education nearby and in their

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<v Speaker 3>in their neighborhood or their town, or their state. Because

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<v Speaker 3>an educated workforce is a more it is better. It's

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<v Speaker 3>better for everybody. Better education system raises the level of

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<v Speaker 3>everyone's lives. It makes everything better, makes a society much

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<v Speaker 3>more efficient and innovative and success and just in every

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<v Speaker 3>way it's better. But I mean, I was just talking

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<v Speaker 3>to somebody else about this. If you look at the

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<v Speaker 3>most the lowest studies of like rex sports through professional sports,

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<v Speaker 3>every study says people who participate in athletics, even at

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<v Speaker 3>a rec level or just a very you know, non

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<v Speaker 3>competitive way, their lives are better. They're healthier, they have

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<v Speaker 3>lower incidents of suicide, lower incidents of mental health problems,

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<v Speaker 3>they have lower dropout rates, they have higher grades, they

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<v Speaker 3>are much more likely to have to go on and

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<v Speaker 3>get higher education. It's just stunning to me that we're

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<v Speaker 3>even contemplating not being as equitable as we should. If

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<v Speaker 3>you just look at the MCA men and women's basketball

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<v Speaker 3>situation that happened in twenty twenty one, and what has

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<v Speaker 3>changed in mended women's basketball college basketball in just through years.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't see that there is a better anecdotal you know,

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<v Speaker 3>view of why we should strive for some measure of

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<v Speaker 3>equality for women.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, before I set you loose, I m seed

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<v Speaker 1>an event last week with a lot of very powerful

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<v Speaker 1>rich people in the private equity world, and they all

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<v Speaker 1>are looking as venture capitalists to invest in sports properties.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the topics is what you just brought up,

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<v Speaker 1>and the money that's been invested in women's sports over

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<v Speaker 1>the past couple of years.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's the Caitlin Clark effect.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, some of these uh, some of these w

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<v Speaker 1>NBA teams, their valuations are sky high and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of money is going into women's sports. Do you think

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<v Speaker 1>this uh, this this you know, the momentum that's been

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<v Speaker 1>created by Caitlin and others, but Caitlin's at a big

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<v Speaker 1>part of it. Do you think it continues? Are we

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<v Speaker 1>approaching what some might believe is a bubble?

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<v Speaker 3>No? I think it continues, And I would I would

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<v Speaker 3>argue that Caitlin Clark was made possible by that investigation

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty one, because what we discovered in twenty

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<v Speaker 3>twenty one was the NCAA was absolutely strangling women's basketball.

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<v Speaker 3>They wouldn't let them use March madness. They didn't invest

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<v Speaker 3>in them separately. They didn't sell their television contract independently.

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<v Speaker 3>That's why we couldn't do bracket challenges on women's basketball.

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<v Speaker 3>The list goes on the NCAA. In my if I

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<v Speaker 3>hate one thing in my life, it's the NTAA. And

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<v Speaker 3>they nearly killed women's basketball on their own. They thank

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<v Speaker 3>God for the social media posts of one athlete that

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<v Speaker 3>showed the disparity, and everybody was outraged at the reality.

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<v Speaker 3>I just think people don't know how bad some of

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<v Speaker 3>the inequities are. I know there are conversations here. You've

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<v Speaker 3>helped us have these conversations about turning Smith's Ballfield into

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<v Speaker 3>a place where, you know, a headquarters of women's sports

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<v Speaker 3>and community access. That's still I mean, not overwhelmingly won

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<v Speaker 3>a vote amongst public people, people who live in the city,

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<v Speaker 3>and yet we're still dragging our feet about it. We're

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<v Speaker 3>still wondering if it's a good investment. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't get it. If we think vegetables are good for boys,

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<v Speaker 3>why are they not good for girls. If we want

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<v Speaker 3>to spend a billion dollars making downtown a great place

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<v Speaker 3>for men's hockey and men's basketball, why can't we make

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<v Speaker 3>you know thirteen South and Maine a great place for

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<v Speaker 3>women's athletics. Why is there the single biggest investment into

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<v Speaker 3>just women's sports. What a women's sports facility is six

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<v Speaker 3>million dollars and that's Kansas City's And without Patrick Mahomes

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<v Speaker 3>and his wife, that doesn't exist. I mean, at some

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<v Speaker 3>point we have to ask ourselves. You're pouring billions of

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<v Speaker 3>dollars public money, our money, taxpayer money into facilities for men.

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<v Speaker 3>When do we spend a few thousand or million on women?

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<v Speaker 2>Amy?

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<v Speaker 1>I knew you'd be good with this today, so I

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate your time. Let's get you in the studio soon. Okay, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, maybe Donaldson