WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:02.000 Now you sound so much better. 2 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:04.200 Yeah, all right, then we're good. 3 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:09.320 Then that's the great James Lylax, not the airline pilot, 4 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:18.160 James Lylyx. We were getting before. 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:16.160 Like that. 6 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:21.760 Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask 7 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:24.120 what you can do for your country. 8 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:28.280 Mister Grbachov, Tear down this wall. 9 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:32.359 It's the Ricochet Podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and 10 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:34.759 Stephen Haywood. I'm James Lylyx, and today we looked at 11 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:38.240 Tim Carney about babies. Who's making them? Do we need more? 12 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:39.039 Why aren't we? 13 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:39.280 Then? 14 00:00:39.320 --> 00:00:41.439 So forth? So let's have ourselves a podcast. 15 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:46.079 I would like to know what your solution would be 16 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:47.039 for gun violence. 17 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:48.799 Great question. 18 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:51.560 I believe in a mix of stronger gun control laws, 19 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:53.000 mental health support. 20 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:53.799 And community engagement. 21 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:57.560 We need to create safe spaces for conversations and connections, 22 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.799 making sure everyone feels seen and heard. It's about building 23 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:03.159 a culture of kindness and understanding. What do you think 24 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:03.560 about that? 25 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:06.959 I think that's a great idea, Joaquin, I see dam 26 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.799 people welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, episode number seven 27 00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:13.480 hundred and fifty two. Why don't you join us at 28 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.920 ricochet dot com? Why not? There is no compelling reason 29 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:20.400 on this firmamentism and said that you shouldn't because once 30 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:22.120 you go there, you're going to find the most compelling, 31 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:24.640 stimulating conversation and community on the web, the place you've 32 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:28.400 been looking for all of these years. Ricochet dot com. 33 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:31.120 I am joined, well, I am. I should tell you 34 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:35.640 that first, James Lilas here in Minneapolis, overcast, cloudy, wind 35 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:39.000 in the trees, and I'm joined by two people I 36 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:42.840 believe are probably in unbearably sunny climbs at the moment, 37 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:46.719 Stephen Hayward in California and Charles CW. Cook in Florida. Gentlemen, 38 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:47.719 how are you to date? 39 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:50.640 I'm well, James, but it's cloudy and cold and overcast 40 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:53.000 here in coastal California, believe it or not, so I 41 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:53.719 share your pain. 42 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:59.200 And well, it is monsoon season, dark, angry skies, constant lightning, 43 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.920 the rumbling of under and rain rain, rain. 44 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:05.120 Oh. I like that. Well, then we're all in somewhat 45 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.240 depressing climbs, but all I assume in a chury mood. Nonetheless, Charles, 46 00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:10.800 do you ever have a bolt of lightning strike one 47 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:14.479 of those perambulating four legged monstrosities you have down there 48 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:16.879 and just blow it? Up. Does that ever happen? Does 49 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:20.400 anybody ever seen a crock just get atomized by a 50 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:21.120 bolt from the blue? 51 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:23.400 I thought for a moment you were being rude about 52 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:28.520 my dog. I have never seen that, and I don't 53 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.000 know what would happen to analogate. We did have a 54 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.879 lightning strike recently that came very very close to hitting 55 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:36.439 our house, and it caused a brown out and everything 56 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.199 turned off, and then some things took a while to 57 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:41.960 turn back on again, and I put all sorts of 58 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:46.719 expletives together and was not impressed. But thankfully everything came back. 59 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:50.479 So thank you Search Protectors. You sacrifice yourself for my good. 60 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.719 See. I would think that you tech, that you are 61 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.080 man who no doubt has all of his cat's six 62 00:02:56.159 --> 00:03:00.599 cables arranged by color and cinched by tie zip, that 63 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:02.759 you would have a generator, and that you would, like 64 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:08.080 many men with a generator, be gladdened to the reaches 65 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:09.840 of your soul by the fact that you actually could 66 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:13.520 go over and trip on the jenny and enjoy electricity 67 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:15.560 in the boons of modern line. But you don't. 68 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:18.599 Well, I've considered it. Maybe it's in my future. 69 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.360 As have I. I've also considered a battery backup that 70 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:23.280 will enable myself to be powered for at least up 71 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:25.479 to thirty minutes until you know, I have to go 72 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:28.439 back into the darkness. Speaking of the darkness, we have 73 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.639 democracy dying in darkness in Texas apparently, where the Democrats 74 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:35.680 have fled rather than perform some sort of gerry manning, 75 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.159 gerry mandering vivisection on the beloved state. And from what 76 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:42.120 I understand, they've gone to Illinois, which, as someone once 77 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:44.520 described it, as districts that looked like somebody gave an 78 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:49.520 etcher sketch to a raccoon. It's an amusing little turn 79 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:52.159 of events. We've seen it elsewhere in Wisconsin, where the 80 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:56.000 legislators fled rather than perform their sworn duty. What's going 81 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.400 on in Texas? And is this going to lead, Heaven 82 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:02.919 Forfend to a nation wide reaction from the Democrats that 83 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:06.360 will force them to go against their principles and craft 84 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:11.759 districts that seem only to reflect to certain societal, racial, 85 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:13.520 and ideological components. 86 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:16.360 Well, I guess I'll go first. 87 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:18.600 First of all, you can hide a lot of Texas 88 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:21.680 legislators behind Governor Pritzker of Illinois, so that was probably 89 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:24.439 a shrewd place to escape fat shaming. 90 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:26.040 Fat shaming not allowed on. 91 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:31.319 This Okay, First of all, this is so ridiculous. Jerry 92 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:34.000 Mandering has been done forever. Everyone knows that it only 93 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:37.800 became a threat to democracy when Republicans got good at it, 94 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:40.319 which they got good at it starting twenty years ago 95 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.199 or so, I'm so old. I remember in the eighties 96 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.639 when out here in California it was generally acknowledged that 97 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.839 the aggressive jerrymandering netted Democrats five House seats above the 98 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:56.399 intrinsic Votingsfore what a more neutral map would have produced. 99 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.959 And Republicans, I think at least three times in the eighties, 100 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.480 put very expensive ballot initiatives on the ballot to try 101 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:07.920 and get fair redistricting and lost all three times. It 102 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:11.040 never just moves the needle with voters very much. It's 103 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.240 easy to campaign against. And yeah, so I mean Phil Burton, 104 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.480 he was the famous congressman from San Francisco, Nancy Pelosi's 105 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:20.959 predecessor in that seat. He called the California Maps his 106 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.199 contribution to modern art, because you know, like the Illinois 107 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.399 districts are all very you know, I went around here 108 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:29.000 and there. The two things interesting about this. At least 109 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:32.519 two is Democrats don't have much running room. If you 110 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.360 look at Illinois or Maryland or Massachusetts, where you know, 111 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:38.959 Republicans got thirty five to forty percent of the total 112 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:43.000 vote for House seats, have zero House seats. It's been 113 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.839 so skillfully jerrymandered that you know, they can't jerrymander it 114 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:48.959 any further if you're a Democrat. And then beyond that, 115 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:51.959 if you look ahead five years in the next census, 116 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:54.600 the blue states are going to lose I don't know, 117 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.000 something like ten House seats, California is gonna lose three 118 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:00.439 and so forth, and all the seats are going to 119 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:04.079 go to guess where, Texas, Florida, Tennessee. They're going to 120 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:06.879 go to mostly red states where Republicans are going to 121 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:08.199 capture the lion's share of them. 122 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:09.759 And so one little. 123 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:12.720 Tippet is, if you ran the reran the twenty twenty election, 124 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:15.319 I think this is right. With the vote splits that 125 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:18.199 you had, Donald Trump would have won the electoral College 126 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:20.920 because Michigan's going to lose a seat and you know 127 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.600 some of the other Pennsylvania is going to lose two seats, 128 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:29.439 and so suddenly the Democrats are looking at wipeout beyond 129 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:31.000 the next census in all likelihood. 130 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:32.600 So I don't know. 131 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:34.920 I don't know exactly why the Texans decided to do this, 132 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:36.519 except I think they looked around and said, you know 133 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:37.959 what we can, so let's try it. 134 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:41.800 Charles Well, I keep being asked by people if I 135 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:44.959 care about this, by which they mean am I upset 136 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:49.000 about it? And the answer is no. And the reason 137 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.759 that I'm not upset about it is this was just explained. 138 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.079 The Democrats have already done this. We already live in 139 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:01.399 a world in which gerrymandering is the norm. The term 140 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:05.839 comes from Elbridge Gerry, who's a founder, So this has 141 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:08.680 been a political question as long as the Republic has existed. 142 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:13.759 The ability to gerrymander has been increased by the advent 143 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:18.000 of powerful computers, which is why you're seeing this arms race. 144 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:22.879 But it's just totally bizarre to me to see these 145 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:25.920 complaints for a couple of reasons. First, the Democrats keep saying, 146 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:28.120 while if you do this, then we're going to have to, 147 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:36.360 uh what you already did it right? And two, we 148 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:38.519 already have a census that is out of whack with 149 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.959 the country as it actually exists. And I've said this 150 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.759 over and over and I'll say it again. I am 151 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:51.040 so sick of hearing about our democracy. Our democracy usually 152 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:56.000 means that those who won power have done something that 153 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:59.120 progressives don't like. It's not really a question of democracy, 154 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.360 it's a question of policy. Defund planned PARENT and defund 155 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:05.560 NPR are what you will. This is actually a question 156 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:10.600 of our democracy. This census mess up. This is the 157 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:14.800 gears of how our system works. It affects the presidency, 158 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.360 it affects a House of Representatives, and by extension, it 159 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:21.639 affects the Supreme Court. So I can't get upset about this. 160 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:26.360 If you ask me a different question, which is do 161 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.600 I like this trend? Do I think there will be 162 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.519 some negative consequences of this trend, I would have a 163 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:33.600 different answer. Yes, I do think there will be some 164 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:38.480 negative consequences of this trend. One example will be the 165 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:42.639 creation of more safe seats and therefore more people who 166 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:46.559 are unresponsive to democratic pressures and more people, frankly on 167 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:50.720 both sides, who are crazy. But we cannot live in 168 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:52.679 a country in which this is only a problem when 169 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.080 Republicans do it. And that is the way that this 170 00:08:55.159 --> 00:08:58.279 has been cast. And I'm not playing along. I'm glad 171 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.039 Texas is doing this. Have you seen Mayorland And the 172 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.000 fact that they flew to Illinois, the most erubunted state 173 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.039 in the country, is just the icing on the cake. 174 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:09.919 And none of the media outlets that have covered this 175 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:14.080 appointed that out. It's like fleeing to Arizona to escape 176 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:14.440 the heat. 177 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:18.759 Well, two things in respond to what you just said. 178 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.080 When you said that, the Democrats have said, well, now 179 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:24.600 we have to respond. You hear this again and again. 180 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.480 The Republicans do something that is outside of their usual 181 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:31.159 parameters of action, i e. They're pushing back, they're actually fighting, 182 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:34.240 they're actually standing up, they're actually not just acquiescing to 183 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:37.720 some incremental dimunation. And all of a sudden, the gloves 184 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:40.919 come out, and the Democrats say that, you know, up 185 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:43.960 to now we have been virtuous and clean and full 186 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.480 of fair play, but now, regrettably, with a deep sense 187 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.799 of dismay, we must now get down in the trenches 188 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:54.799 and fight as dirty as they do, as if somehow, 189 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.519 And I hear this all the time for people on 190 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:01.720 the Democratic side, that they're always being rolled by the 191 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:06.039 Republicans because they play virtuously the idea that either side, 192 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.240 of course has clean hands is ridiculous, but I find 193 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.840 that self delusion to be just hilarious. The second is 194 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:13.840 is that you said, when you're jerrymandering that it comes 195 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.200 from who it comes from a name of a guy, 196 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.320 but his name is spelled is pronounced with a heart 197 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:22.720 G as opposed to the soft G of jerrymandering. It's 198 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:25.559 like gif It's like the whole gift debate that we 199 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.480 seem to keep having back and back. Just as the 200 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:30.879 gift debate was spoiled by the inventor of the gift 201 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:34.440 coming out with an absolutely wrong answer to how it's pronounced. 202 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.240 I expect that somebody will say on the mid the 203 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:38.639 you know, the the guy who is the origin of 204 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:42.960 the gerrymander word, and and throw his his his hat 205 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:44.679 in with a with a soft G. So I'm going 206 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:46.799 to say Gary Mander from now on and have it, 207 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.039 and people will look at me in a peculiar fashion. 208 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:52.360 Can I just add that I hope no, you can't, Stephen, Yeah, 209 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:53.039 I can't. 210 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.600 I just hope that Texas will preserve a seat for 211 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:59.159 Jasmine Crockett because I want her to be the face 212 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.039 of the Democratic part for as long. 213 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:06.200 As possible, if not the rhetorical wellspring right. One more 214 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.320 point before we go to a guest here. There was 215 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:10.639 recently a crime in d C which was broken up 216 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:13.240 by big balls. And you don't often get the chance 217 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:15.759 to say that, especially when the person to whom the 218 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.879 nickname applies seemed to be the opposite of but that's him, 219 00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:23.519 and there was, since it was Doge related, since it 220 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:26.279 was in a nice neighborhood I can't remember, since the 221 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.000 combatants were not the usual sort that you find in 222 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.159 DC crime stories. There have been calls by Trump and 223 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:36.519 others to federalize d C, to yank away some of 224 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:38.279 the tenets of home rule and say, no, we're going 225 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:39.840 to make this place safe again. We're going to make 226 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.679 DC walkup a Liverpool, et cetera. Uh, what do you 227 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:44.159 think about that? 228 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.279 I'm totally fine with it. DC is a federal district. 229 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.440 It is under the plenary control of the federal government, 230 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.360 and if it wishes, it can set up a secondary 231 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:01.360 delegation of power to a bull or a mayor, or 232 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.279 really whatever form of government it wishes. That it's not 233 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:10.240 a monarchy. So if that secondary delegation, which is optional, 234 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:15.120 is not working out, the federal government can take control 235 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:17.799 of the federal district. There are some questions as to 236 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.960 whether or not Congress needs to get involved in this 237 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:23.320 that are important, but as a structural question it seems 238 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:27.879 to me self evidently allowable. Steve, Yeah, I mean it. 239 00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:30.519 Was decades ago, actually in nineteenth century when I guess 240 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:34.159 Congress ceded the Virginia side of the Potomac River back 241 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:37.039 to the state of Virginia. And I've long thought that 242 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.279 the best solution to all this is to take most 243 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.840 of the District of Columbia and cede to the state 244 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.000 of Maryland and just make it part of Maryland, and 245 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.799 then the federal government would control really the mall and 246 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.080 the sort of core federal buildings, you know, the parts 247 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.360 where the footprint is, you know, between Independence and Constitution Avenue, 248 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:54.840 maybe extending K Street. I don't know, but I'd be 249 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:56.879 small and compact and then let the rest of the 250 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.320 city be part of Maryland, and it's Maryland's problem. 251 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.200 From a resident of DC, I couldn't agree more. The 252 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:04.600 idea that it somehow we become a state was always 253 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:06.559 the most laughable thing that you can think of. Before 254 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:08.519 we go to our guest, though, one little note as 255 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:11.120 far as big Balls goes, and you just don't often 256 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:14.000 get to hear somebody say that legitimately on a Ricochet podcast. 257 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:15.440 Do you guys know his real name? 258 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:16.639 No? 259 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:21.440 Edward Korstein. Let me read you from his Wikipedia page. 260 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:23.759 Corstein was born in December two thousand and five. His 261 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:28.960 father's Charles Korstein, the CEO of a company called Lesser Evil. Okay. 262 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:33.600 His maternal grandfather, Valerie Martinov, was a KGB lieutenant colonel 263 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:35.840 executed by the Soviet Union as a double agent. 264 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:39.759 Well who knew. 265 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.480 After his execution, his widow moved with their children, including 266 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:46.960 Korstine's mother Anna, to the United States. His grandfather was 267 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.600 popped in lu Bianca by the KGB for being a 268 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:53.480 double agent. Yes, I know the things that you learn 269 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.519 sometimes when people get the bleep beaten out of them 270 00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:59.960 in the DC environs, we now go happily to Tim Carney, 271 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.960 Senior Fellow of the American Enterprise Institute of senior columnist 272 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:05.440 for The Washington Examiner. He is also the author of 273 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:10.519 twenty nineteen's Alienated America and more recently, Family Unfriendly. How 274 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.639 our culture made raising kids much harder than it needs 275 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:15.759 to be. Tim, welcome back. 276 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:17.399 Hey, how's it going. 277 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.399 Let's talk about falling fertility rates, because that's what everybody 278 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.039 wants to hear in a weekend, is yay or nay. 279 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.080 I remember growing up with a four horsemen of the apocalypse, 280 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:29.639 one of which was going to be overpopulation, starvation, planetary despoolation. 281 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:31.879 We got to stop ZPG all the rest of it 282 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:34.960 a start. Contrast to what happened after World War Two, 283 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.360 and everybody came home and said, here are these vast 284 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.759 potato tracks in Long Island. Let us fill them with 285 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:42.799 houses and populate them with kids running gambling about the 286 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:47.159 lawn on a Saturday afternoon. Was a different view of 287 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:51.480 what families should do. And now the West faces this 288 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.600 disinclination to have children. Why and what do we do 289 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:56.000 about it? 290 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:01.399 You got three minutes, million places to go with there, 291 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:04.200 I'll start where I usually don't start, because you mentioned 292 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:09.480 the baby boom. I think that the most underappreciated factor 293 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:14.240 in our baby busts is civilizational sadness. That's a term 294 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:16.840 I came up with for the belief that we're just 295 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:21.279 not good. We being whatever humans Americans, white people, middle 296 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:25.080 class people, Brooklyn hipsters. We are just not good is 297 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.480 the answer that so many people in the West, in 298 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:31.799 Canada and Europe and the US, etc. Give And when 299 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:35.320 did we feel the opposite of this? The most in 300 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.440 nineteen forty five, when our guys got off the boat, 301 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.440 just having defeated two evil empires. Our women met them 302 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:44.720 on the pier, just having made all the weapons and 303 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.279 kept the economy running, and they smooch on the peer, 304 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:49.240 go back to the chapel, get married, and have a 305 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:51.960 ton of kids, because more than ever before, ever since, 306 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.679 we knew we were good. And guess where the baby 307 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.679 busts in the West started in the twentieth century. It 308 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:00.759 started in Germany and Japan and Italy, places where they 309 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:02.840 couldn't answer that question. 310 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.679 Are we good? 311 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.759 They couldn't affirmatively say that they either felt ashamed or 312 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.559 they felt guilt. And so where does that guilt come from? 313 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:10.759 Here? 314 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.320 Well, climate guilt is like the surface manifestation of it. 315 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.000 But I think it's a deeper guilt that's inevitable in 316 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.480 a post Christian, post religious society. 317 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.279 That's an interesting thesis. Is Steve Heyward out in California. 318 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:27.519 Tim And by the way, I couldn't help when you 319 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.679 mentioned that civilizational sadness. The social scientist in me says, yeah, okay, 320 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.960 how do you quantify that? And I know there are surveys, 321 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:36.840 but I also remember, and James may remember this, in 322 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.759 nineteen eighty four, Walter Bondale would tick off the list 323 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:42.120 of interest groups that he was had affinity for, so 324 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:46.240 you know, blacks, women, gays, and the sad. 325 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:47.000 But he was. 326 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:51.600 We said that I'm the candidate for the sad and 327 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.639 of course really he was just a sad candidate, as 328 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.080 we know. But so though there's something to that. I 329 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.559 think I've long thought that there was something to that, 330 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:00.840 and I actually can point to data, right. I mean, 331 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:03.919 something I point out to students is if you look 332 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:05.720 at the long term surveys, they really start in the 333 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.519 fifties of people who say they had high trust or 334 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.599 confidence in American institutions, especially the government, it was up 335 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.400 around eighty percent, you know, eight zero. Today it's around 336 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.839 fifteen percent. And that's public sector, private sector, right, And 337 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.240 there's a lot to all that, but that's a huge change, 338 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.359 and I have lots of theories about that. But nonetheless, 339 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:28.599 if you are, if you're in a sour boot about 340 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:32.519 your current circumstances and gloomy about the future. Of course, 341 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:35.880 it's going to depress fertility rates. At one more thought, 342 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.880 and maybe you've written about this, is after the big 343 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.799 blackout in New York in nineteen sixty six and then 344 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:44.240 again in nineteen seventy seven. 345 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.440 Guess what, nine months later there were full maternity rooms 346 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.279 because what do people do now? That didn't happen. 347 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.440 During COVID the pandemic, correct the pandemic. 348 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.000 And the reason was is that people knew in sixty 349 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.000 six and seventy seven the lights are going to come 350 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:00.799 back on, We'll get back to normal, life will return 351 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:01.680 to norm will be good. 352 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.359 So let's make whoopee. 353 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.319 Whereas during the pandemic there was not that confidence that 354 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:08.880 you know, what's going to happen after this? How long 355 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.079 is it going to go? Sorry, go ahead, I. 356 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.160 Was gonna say. And there was the isolation. And so 357 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.640 you were talking earlier about trust in institutions, trust in institutions, 358 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:23.119 trust in neighbors, trust in humanity, something to lean on, 359 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.720 whether it's a church, a community, something like that, all 360 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:29.759 of that really matters. Like the undertaking of getting married 361 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:34.480 and raising children is not a solo undertaking. As a 362 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.279 wise woman once put it, it takes a village to 363 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.519 raise a child. Right now, she met the Department of 364 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.920 Health and Human Services. But anybody out there who's raised 365 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.160 kids knows it means their neighbor, it means their pastor, 366 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:47.599 it means the older kids down the block who babysit. 367 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.079 It means the younger family down the block who hires 368 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.559 your kids to babysit and mow the lawn. It takes 369 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:54.839 so much support to raise a family, and so you 370 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.759 need to trust that people are good. And then COVID 371 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.720 was it was really a sad period. I mean I 372 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:06.240 remember during the lockdowns thinking, we're not gonna like want 373 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.000 to talk about this, We're gonna be embarrassed. I mean 374 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.240 I spent almost a month like just I had a 375 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:13.480 nice backyard and letting my kids run around the backyard 376 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:15.200 and not seeing other people. And then I thought, what 377 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.599 in the world did I just do? And so so 378 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.640 many people just look back on that with a little 379 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.559 bit of embarrassment and shame and don't want to talk 380 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.160 about it. But it was deeply sad and it was 381 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:28.920 a lack of connection. And the people who thrived were 382 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.519 the people who said, all right, most of our neighbors 383 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:33.519 are being crazy. We're going to get together and we're 384 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.200 going to form a pod. And what was a pod? 385 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.960 A pod was a sort of a creation of something 386 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.720 that used to be a little more natural, which is 387 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.200 a bunch of different families hanging out without having to 388 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.279 schedule anything. And so a huge part of what I 389 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:49.240 write about in my book is like, that's what is 390 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:55.240 missing is the informal support from neighborhoods and from something 391 00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:57.119 that you belong to, like a church. 392 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:01.880 Most importantly so Atim Charles Cook, and of course we 393 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.240 talked about this on my podcast. I love the book. 394 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.720 Those are two different things you're describing. On the one hand, 395 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.920 you have loneliness caused in that case by COVID, but 396 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:16.039 more generally we're told people are sad and lonely and 397 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:22.039 civilizational under confidence. I understand why the Germans felt bad 398 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.200 in nineteen forty five, frankly, I think they still should 399 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.920 as the Englishman in me. But I don't understand why 400 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.759 so many Americans have come to believe that their country 401 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:35.000