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Speaker 1: Now you sound so much better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, then we're good.

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Speaker 1: Then that's the great James Lylax, not the airline pilot,

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James Lylyx. We were getting before.

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Speaker 2: Like that.

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Speaker 3: Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask

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what you can do for your country.

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Speaker 1: Mister Grbachov, Tear down this wall.

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Speaker 2: It's the Ricochet Podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and

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Stephen Haywood. I'm James Lylyx, and today we looked at

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Tim Carney about babies. Who's making them? Do we need more?

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Why aren't we?

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Speaker 1: Then?

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Speaker 2: So forth? So let's have ourselves a podcast.

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Speaker 3: I would like to know what your solution would be

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for gun violence.

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Speaker 2: Great question.

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Speaker 4: I believe in a mix of stronger gun control laws,

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mental health support.

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Speaker 2: And community engagement.

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Speaker 4: We need to create safe spaces for conversations and connections,

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making sure everyone feels seen and heard. It's about building

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a culture of kindness and understanding. What do you think

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about that?

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Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea, Joaquin, I see dam

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people welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, episode number seven

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hundred and fifty two. Why don't you join us at

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ricochet dot com? Why not? There is no compelling reason

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on this firmamentism and said that you shouldn't because once

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you go there, you're going to find the most compelling,

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stimulating conversation and community on the web, the place you've

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been looking for all of these years. Ricochet dot com.

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I am joined, well, I am. I should tell you

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that first, James Lilas here in Minneapolis, overcast, cloudy, wind

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in the trees, and I'm joined by two people I

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believe are probably in unbearably sunny climbs at the moment,

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Stephen Hayward in California and Charles CW. Cook in Florida. Gentlemen,

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how are you to date?

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Speaker 3: I'm well, James, but it's cloudy and cold and overcast

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here in coastal California, believe it or not, so I

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share your pain.

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Speaker 1: And well, it is monsoon season, dark, angry skies, constant lightning,

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the rumbling of under and rain rain, rain.

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Speaker 2: Oh. I like that. Well, then we're all in somewhat

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depressing climbs, but all I assume in a chury mood. Nonetheless, Charles,

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do you ever have a bolt of lightning strike one

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of those perambulating four legged monstrosities you have down there

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and just blow it? Up. Does that ever happen? Does

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anybody ever seen a crock just get atomized by a

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bolt from the blue?

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Speaker 1: I thought for a moment you were being rude about

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my dog. I have never seen that, and I don't

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know what would happen to analogate. We did have a

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lightning strike recently that came very very close to hitting

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our house, and it caused a brown out and everything

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turned off, and then some things took a while to

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turn back on again, and I put all sorts of

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expletives together and was not impressed. But thankfully everything came back.

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So thank you Search Protectors. You sacrifice yourself for my good.

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Speaker 2: See. I would think that you tech, that you are

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man who no doubt has all of his cat's six

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cables arranged by color and cinched by tie zip, that

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you would have a generator, and that you would, like

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many men with a generator, be gladdened to the reaches

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of your soul by the fact that you actually could

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go over and trip on the jenny and enjoy electricity

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in the boons of modern line. But you don't.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've considered it. Maybe it's in my future.

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Speaker 2: As have I. I've also considered a battery backup that

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will enable myself to be powered for at least up

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to thirty minutes until you know, I have to go

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back into the darkness. Speaking of the darkness, we have

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democracy dying in darkness in Texas apparently, where the Democrats

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have fled rather than perform some sort of gerry manning,

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gerry mandering vivisection on the beloved state. And from what

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I understand, they've gone to Illinois, which, as someone once

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described it, as districts that looked like somebody gave an

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etcher sketch to a raccoon. It's an amusing little turn

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of events. We've seen it elsewhere in Wisconsin, where the

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legislators fled rather than perform their sworn duty. What's going

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on in Texas? And is this going to lead, Heaven

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Forfend to a nation wide reaction from the Democrats that

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will force them to go against their principles and craft

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districts that seem only to reflect to certain societal, racial,

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and ideological components.

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Speaker 5: Well, I guess I'll go first.

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Speaker 3: First of all, you can hide a lot of Texas

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legislators behind Governor Pritzker of Illinois, so that was probably

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a shrewd place to escape fat shaming.

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Speaker 2: Fat shaming not allowed on.

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Speaker 3: This Okay, First of all, this is so ridiculous. Jerry

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Mandering has been done forever. Everyone knows that it only

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became a threat to democracy when Republicans got good at it,

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which they got good at it starting twenty years ago

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or so, I'm so old. I remember in the eighties

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when out here in California it was generally acknowledged that

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the aggressive jerrymandering netted Democrats five House seats above the

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intrinsic Votingsfore what a more neutral map would have produced.

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And Republicans, I think at least three times in the eighties,

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put very expensive ballot initiatives on the ballot to try

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and get fair redistricting and lost all three times. It

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never just moves the needle with voters very much. It's

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easy to campaign against. And yeah, so I mean Phil Burton,

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he was the famous congressman from San Francisco, Nancy Pelosi's

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predecessor in that seat. He called the California Maps his

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contribution to modern art, because you know, like the Illinois

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districts are all very you know, I went around here

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and there. The two things interesting about this. At least

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two is Democrats don't have much running room. If you

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look at Illinois or Maryland or Massachusetts, where you know,

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Republicans got thirty five to forty percent of the total

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vote for House seats, have zero House seats. It's been

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so skillfully jerrymandered that you know, they can't jerrymander it

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any further if you're a Democrat. And then beyond that,

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if you look ahead five years in the next census,

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the blue states are going to lose I don't know,

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something like ten House seats, California is gonna lose three

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and so forth, and all the seats are going to

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go to guess where, Texas, Florida, Tennessee. They're going to

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go to mostly red states where Republicans are going to

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capture the lion's share of them.

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Speaker 5: And so one little.

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Speaker 3: Tippet is, if you ran the reran the twenty twenty election,

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I think this is right. With the vote splits that

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you had, Donald Trump would have won the electoral College

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because Michigan's going to lose a seat and you know

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some of the other Pennsylvania is going to lose two seats,

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and so suddenly the Democrats are looking at wipeout beyond

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the next census in all likelihood.

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Speaker 5: So I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know exactly why the Texans decided to do this,

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except I think they looked around and said, you know

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what we can, so let's try it.

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Speaker 1: Charles Well, I keep being asked by people if I

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care about this, by which they mean am I upset

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about it? And the answer is no. And the reason

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that I'm not upset about it is this was just explained.

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The Democrats have already done this. We already live in

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a world in which gerrymandering is the norm. The term

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comes from Elbridge Gerry, who's a founder, So this has

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been a political question as long as the Republic has existed.

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The ability to gerrymander has been increased by the advent

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of powerful computers, which is why you're seeing this arms race.

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But it's just totally bizarre to me to see these

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complaints for a couple of reasons. First, the Democrats keep saying,

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while if you do this, then we're going to have to,

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uh what you already did it right? And two, we

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already have a census that is out of whack with

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the country as it actually exists. And I've said this

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over and over and I'll say it again. I am

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so sick of hearing about our democracy. Our democracy usually

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means that those who won power have done something that

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progressives don't like. It's not really a question of democracy,

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it's a question of policy. Defund planned PARENT and defund

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NPR are what you will. This is actually a question

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of our democracy. This census mess up. This is the

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gears of how our system works. It affects the presidency,

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it affects a House of Representatives, and by extension, it

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affects the Supreme Court. So I can't get upset about this.

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If you ask me a different question, which is do

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I like this trend? Do I think there will be

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some negative consequences of this trend, I would have a

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different answer. Yes, I do think there will be some

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negative consequences of this trend. One example will be the

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creation of more safe seats and therefore more people who

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are unresponsive to democratic pressures and more people, frankly on

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both sides, who are crazy. But we cannot live in

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a country in which this is only a problem when

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Republicans do it. And that is the way that this

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has been cast. And I'm not playing along. I'm glad

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Texas is doing this. Have you seen Mayorland And the

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fact that they flew to Illinois, the most erubunted state

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in the country, is just the icing on the cake.

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And none of the media outlets that have covered this

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appointed that out. It's like fleeing to Arizona to escape

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the heat.

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Speaker 2: Well, two things in respond to what you just said.

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When you said that, the Democrats have said, well, now

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we have to respond. You hear this again and again.

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The Republicans do something that is outside of their usual

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parameters of action, i e. They're pushing back, they're actually fighting,

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they're actually standing up, they're actually not just acquiescing to

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some incremental dimunation. And all of a sudden, the gloves

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come out, and the Democrats say that, you know, up

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to now we have been virtuous and clean and full

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of fair play, but now, regrettably, with a deep sense

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of dismay, we must now get down in the trenches

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and fight as dirty as they do, as if somehow,

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And I hear this all the time for people on

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the Democratic side, that they're always being rolled by the

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Republicans because they play virtuously the idea that either side,

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of course has clean hands is ridiculous, but I find

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that self delusion to be just hilarious. The second is

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is that you said, when you're jerrymandering that it comes

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from who it comes from a name of a guy,

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but his name is spelled is pronounced with a heart

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G as opposed to the soft G of jerrymandering. It's

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like gif It's like the whole gift debate that we

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seem to keep having back and back. Just as the

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gift debate was spoiled by the inventor of the gift

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coming out with an absolutely wrong answer to how it's pronounced.

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I expect that somebody will say on the mid the

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you know, the the guy who is the origin of

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the gerrymander word, and and throw his his his hat

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in with a with a soft G. So I'm going

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to say Gary Mander from now on and have it,

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and people will look at me in a peculiar fashion.

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Can I just add that I hope no, you can't, Stephen, Yeah,

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I can't.

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Speaker 3: I just hope that Texas will preserve a seat for

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Jasmine Crockett because I want her to be the face

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of the Democratic part for as long.

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Speaker 2: As possible, if not the rhetorical wellspring right. One more

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point before we go to a guest here. There was

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recently a crime in d C which was broken up

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by big balls. And you don't often get the chance

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to say that, especially when the person to whom the

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nickname applies seemed to be the opposite of but that's him,

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and there was, since it was Doge related, since it

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was in a nice neighborhood I can't remember, since the

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combatants were not the usual sort that you find in

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DC crime stories. There have been calls by Trump and

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others to federalize d C, to yank away some of

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the tenets of home rule and say, no, we're going

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to make this place safe again. We're going to make

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DC walkup a Liverpool, et cetera. Uh, what do you

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think about that?

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Speaker 1: I'm totally fine with it. DC is a federal district.

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It is under the plenary control of the federal government,

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and if it wishes, it can set up a secondary

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delegation of power to a bull or a mayor, or

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really whatever form of government it wishes. That it's not

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a monarchy. So if that secondary delegation, which is optional,

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is not working out, the federal government can take control

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of the federal district. There are some questions as to

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whether or not Congress needs to get involved in this

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that are important, but as a structural question it seems

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to me self evidently allowable. Steve, Yeah, I mean it.

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Speaker 3: Was decades ago, actually in nineteenth century when I guess

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Congress ceded the Virginia side of the Potomac River back

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to the state of Virginia. And I've long thought that

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the best solution to all this is to take most

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of the District of Columbia and cede to the state

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of Maryland and just make it part of Maryland, and

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then the federal government would control really the mall and

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the sort of core federal buildings, you know, the parts

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where the footprint is, you know, between Independence and Constitution Avenue,

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maybe extending K Street. I don't know, but I'd be

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small and compact and then let the rest of the

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city be part of Maryland, and it's Maryland's problem.

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Speaker 2: From a resident of DC, I couldn't agree more. The

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idea that it somehow we become a state was always

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the most laughable thing that you can think of. Before

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we go to our guest, though, one little note as

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far as big Balls goes, and you just don't often

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get to hear somebody say that legitimately on a Ricochet podcast.

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Do you guys know his real name?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Edward Korstein. Let me read you from his Wikipedia page.

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Corstein was born in December two thousand and five. His

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father's Charles Korstein, the CEO of a company called Lesser Evil. Okay.

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His maternal grandfather, Valerie Martinov, was a KGB lieutenant colonel

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executed by the Soviet Union as a double agent.

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Speaker 1: Well who knew.

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Speaker 2: After his execution, his widow moved with their children, including

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Korstine's mother Anna, to the United States. His grandfather was

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popped in lu Bianca by the KGB for being a

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double agent. Yes, I know the things that you learn

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sometimes when people get the bleep beaten out of them

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in the DC environs, we now go happily to Tim Carney,

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Senior Fellow of the American Enterprise Institute of senior columnist

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for The Washington Examiner. He is also the author of

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twenty nineteen's Alienated America and more recently, Family Unfriendly. How

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our culture made raising kids much harder than it needs

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to be. Tim, welcome back.

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Speaker 6: Hey, how's it going.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about falling fertility rates, because that's what everybody

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wants to hear in a weekend, is yay or nay.

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I remember growing up with a four horsemen of the apocalypse,

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one of which was going to be overpopulation, starvation, planetary despoolation.

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We got to stop ZPG all the rest of it

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a start. Contrast to what happened after World War Two,

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and everybody came home and said, here are these vast

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potato tracks in Long Island. Let us fill them with

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houses and populate them with kids running gambling about the

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lawn on a Saturday afternoon. Was a different view of

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what families should do. And now the West faces this

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disinclination to have children. Why and what do we do

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about it?

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Speaker 6: You got three minutes, million places to go with there,

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I'll start where I usually don't start, because you mentioned

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the baby boom. I think that the most underappreciated factor

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in our baby busts is civilizational sadness. That's a term

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I came up with for the belief that we're just

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not good. We being whatever humans Americans, white people, middle

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class people, Brooklyn hipsters. We are just not good is

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the answer that so many people in the West, in

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Canada and Europe and the US, etc. Give And when

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did we feel the opposite of this? The most in

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nineteen forty five, when our guys got off the boat,

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just having defeated two evil empires. Our women met them

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on the pier, just having made all the weapons and

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kept the economy running, and they smooch on the peer,

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go back to the chapel, get married, and have a

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ton of kids, because more than ever before, ever since,

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we knew we were good. And guess where the baby

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busts in the West started in the twentieth century. It

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started in Germany and Japan and Italy, places where they

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couldn't answer that question.

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Speaker 2: Are we good?

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Speaker 6: They couldn't affirmatively say that they either felt ashamed or

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they felt guilt. And so where does that guilt come from?

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Speaker 5: Here?

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Speaker 6: Well, climate guilt is like the surface manifestation of it.

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But I think it's a deeper guilt that's inevitable in

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a post Christian, post religious society.

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Speaker 3: That's an interesting thesis. Is Steve Heyward out in California.

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Tim And by the way, I couldn't help when you

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mentioned that civilizational sadness. The social scientist in me says, yeah, okay,

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how do you quantify that? And I know there are surveys,

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but I also remember, and James may remember this, in

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nineteen eighty four, Walter Bondale would tick off the list

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of interest groups that he was had affinity for, so

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you know, blacks, women, gays, and the sad.

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Speaker 1: But he was.

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Speaker 3: We said that I'm the candidate for the sad and

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of course really he was just a sad candidate, as

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we know. But so though there's something to that. I

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think I've long thought that there was something to that,

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and I actually can point to data, right. I mean,

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something I point out to students is if you look

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at the long term surveys, they really start in the

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fifties of people who say they had high trust or

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confidence in American institutions, especially the government, it was up

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around eighty percent, you know, eight zero. Today it's around

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fifteen percent. And that's public sector, private sector, right, And

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there's a lot to all that, but that's a huge change,

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and I have lots of theories about that. But nonetheless,

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if you are, if you're in a sour boot about

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your current circumstances and gloomy about the future. Of course,

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it's going to depress fertility rates. At one more thought,

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and maybe you've written about this, is after the big

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blackout in New York in nineteen sixty six and then

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again in nineteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 5: Guess what, nine months later there were full maternity rooms

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because what do people do now? That didn't happen.

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Speaker 6: During COVID the pandemic, correct the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: And the reason was is that people knew in sixty

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six and seventy seven the lights are going to come

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back on, We'll get back to normal, life will return

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to norm will be good.

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Speaker 5: So let's make whoopee.

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Speaker 3: Whereas during the pandemic there was not that confidence that

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you know, what's going to happen after this? How long

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is it going to go? Sorry, go ahead, I.

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Speaker 6: Was gonna say. And there was the isolation. And so

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you were talking earlier about trust in institutions, trust in institutions,

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trust in neighbors, trust in humanity, something to lean on,

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whether it's a church, a community, something like that, all

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of that really matters. Like the undertaking of getting married

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and raising children is not a solo undertaking. As a

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wise woman once put it, it takes a village to

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raise a child. Right now, she met the Department of

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Health and Human Services. But anybody out there who's raised

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kids knows it means their neighbor, it means their pastor,

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it means the older kids down the block who babysit.

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It means the younger family down the block who hires

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your kids to babysit and mow the lawn. It takes

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so much support to raise a family, and so you

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need to trust that people are good. And then COVID

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was it was really a sad period. I mean I

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remember during the lockdowns thinking, we're not gonna like want

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to talk about this, We're gonna be embarrassed. I mean

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I spent almost a month like just I had a

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nice backyard and letting my kids run around the backyard

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and not seeing other people. And then I thought, what

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in the world did I just do? And so so

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many people just look back on that with a little

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bit of embarrassment and shame and don't want to talk

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about it. But it was deeply sad and it was

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a lack of connection. And the people who thrived were

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the people who said, all right, most of our neighbors

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are being crazy. We're going to get together and we're

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going to form a pod. And what was a pod?

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A pod was a sort of a creation of something

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that used to be a little more natural, which is

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a bunch of different families hanging out without having to

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schedule anything. And so a huge part of what I

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write about in my book is like, that's what is

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missing is the informal support from neighborhoods and from something

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that you belong to, like a church.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly so Atim Charles Cook, and of course we

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talked about this on my podcast. I love the book.

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Those are two different things you're describing. On the one hand,

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you have loneliness caused in that case by COVID, but

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more generally we're told people are sad and lonely and

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civilizational under confidence. I understand why the Germans felt bad

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in nineteen forty five, frankly, I think they still should

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as the Englishman in me. But I don't understand why

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so many Americans have come to believe that their country

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isn't good and have started to say things like, well,

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really raised children in this world? When we are, for

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all our problems, very rich and fun and dynamic and

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stable why do you think that has happened.

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Speaker 6: No, I think that's a great question. So, first of all,

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it hasn't happened equally everywhere. White liberal women are the

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people who are most depressed about our society, least hopeful

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about the future, most negative, have the least trusts of

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everybody else. Church going people, while less happy, less trustful

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than a generation ago, are more happy, more trustful than

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almost anyone else.

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Speaker 2: Let me let me step in for a second here.

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Could it be that that first group that you mentioned,

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the unhappy ones, are not having children because nobody wants

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to have children with them.

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Speaker 6: I think it goes both ways. Your attractiveness is definitely

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uh is influenced by how how negative and unpleasant you are,

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and how you look at everything as an aggression, a microaggression, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, and I see problematic, endless tiktoks with these people

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in their cars with very large glasses and perhaps a

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septum ring and maybe a little, you know, kool Aid

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colored hair or something fulminating about this that or the other.

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The idea that somebody would look at that and say

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that is the person with whom I want to conjoin

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my genes and bring up a new generation. They have

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self I'm serious, they have self isolated by being such

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miserable people and keeping the bubbles.

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Speaker 6: Were the misery. The misery is rooted in ideology. I

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think Charles was hinting at that, maybe, but I definitely

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think it is. And I think it's rooted in a

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particular flavor of materialists secularism, that people who try to

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find heaven on this earth always fail and so they're

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always unhappy, and that when autonomy becomes a god, then

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you're never going to give it up. I mean, what

435
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was the recent New York Times piece, the problem with mankeeping,

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and the big crux of the piece was the idea

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that some women are finding that their husbands really rely

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on them. And then there's all the there's all these

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other stories that are like that, and it's about creating,

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and it's frankly, and this is a good topic to

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talk about. A hyper individualism. Individualism is central to the

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American dream, it's central to our identity. It's a lot

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of conservatives you should just call ourselves individualists, right like

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fifty sixty years ago. But also that's always been in

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the US in the context of tightly knit civil society

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and community. So to get back to Charles's point and

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to mention an older book I wrote, Alienated America. It's

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that we know each other less. The bowling alone stuff

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that Robert Putnam laid out twenty five years ago is

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still true. So the world is sadder if you don't

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belong to stuff, if you don't know your neighbors, because

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then you start to introduce new replacements. And so instead

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of being involved in your community, what the left does

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is they try to change the world. They get involved

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just in politics, and guess what, they fail to change

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the world. Trump gets reelected and Amy Cony Barricket's on

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the Supreme Court. And then when they fail to change

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the world, they get all depressed instead of going and like,

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you know, helping build a new playground at the at

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the local park.

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Speaker 1: You were going to say something about immigrants.

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Speaker 6: That's before I realized you were on the show, and

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I didn't want to offend you. No, immigrants are more

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hopeful in general in the US, and so people will

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point out that immigrants have a slightly higher birth rate

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than native born Americans, but that's entirely You could predict

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it all either by their more hope for the future

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of America, or by the fact that they're more religious

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than the native born. And so it's not I mean,

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Europe might have a different issue, but it's not you

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know these you know, swarthy, unkempt masses coming out and

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breeding like rabbits. It's people who kind of are a

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little more like the Mormons getting off a boat and

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showing up in the US. But it's only a slightly

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higher birth rate because they often assimilate to our low

476
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,000
birth rate model here.

477
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: Interesting.

478
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,759
Speaker 3: So Tim, we said, I'm going to go there's sort

479
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:44,319
of two different questions, one basic fertility and the other

480
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,119
some of the wider social networks that are important. I

481
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:52,000
think one question that may unite those two. Somebody's going

482
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:53,839
to say this is a cliche four guys on a

483
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,200
podcast saying isn't part of the problem as always women

484
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,279
went to work. But you know, the point is if

485
00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:04,160
you're working, you know, you're not out doing the pta

486
00:25:04,319 --> 00:25:06,559
like my mom did, you know during the Boer War

487
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,000
and all the rest of that. And and then and

488
00:25:09,079 --> 00:25:12,000
also it's more of an economic trade off to have

489
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,079
more than one child. And so there's that to reflect on.

490
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,440
And I'll do this sequel Somewhere in the last week

491
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:22,039
or two I saw a story I can't remember if

492
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:25,519
it was The Times of the Wall Street Journal that said, huh,

493
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,400
feminists have grudgingly conceded that you can't have it all,

494
00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:32,880
But guess what conservative women do seem to be having

495
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,559
it all. And part of the hatred for Caroline Levitt,

496
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:38,039
just to pick the most representative figure, is she's a

497
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,039
very young mom, and boy does she look happy in

498
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,920
fulfill She's having the time of her life. And that

499
00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:47,759
must absolutely outrage the sort of feminist left and so

500
00:25:47,839 --> 00:25:50,400
forth right, So I don't reflect on that. I mean

501
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,119
the women workplace and stuff, right, go.

502
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:57,799
Speaker 6: Ahead, work, gender, community, birth rates, all these stuff interacting

503
00:25:57,839 --> 00:25:59,640
one hundred ways. Just to list a couple, you refer

504
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,759
to the volunteering. Emma Green, who has written for The Atlantic.

505
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:05,519
I'm not exactly sure where she is, but she wrote

506
00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:08,160
a piece a couple of years ago on how all

507
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,759
the volunteering in the US has basically been done by

508
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,400
mothers who no longer have really little kids and they

509
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,319
don't have a full time job. Now, some of this

510
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,920
was bad, like prohibition, but most of it was good, right,

511
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,599
even abolition, A lot of that was driven by stay

512
00:26:24,599 --> 00:26:28,240
at home moms, right and so, and then in the neighborhood,

513
00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:30,640
I was think of the how many people my age

514
00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:35,039
who we were the most sort of running around unsupervised

515
00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:38,720
super generation possibly, how many of us have the story

516
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,559
of doing something stupid getting yelled at by somebody else's mom,

517
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,200
and then thinking can I get home to explain it

518
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,640
to my mom before she gets a story from this

519
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,039
lady on her front porches. Right, and so that safety

520
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,759
provided by the fact that you know there's other people

521
00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:58,000
out in the neighborhood watching your kids during on a

522
00:26:58,039 --> 00:27:01,119
summer afternoon, that's huge. One of the ways I try

523
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,240
to broach this difficult situation of talking about, well, yeah,

524
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,359
when both parents are working, they're less likely to have

525
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,440
more kids, they're more likely to put off kids is

526
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,720
to point out that there has that. It's one of

527
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:19,720
the problems has been also men not putting family first.

528
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,400
Now I have to spend more than forty hours a

529
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,680
week working, thankfully some of it I'm like today, I'm

530
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,359
doing this from home. But family is more important. Like

531
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,000
all you men listening, your family's more important than your job. Okay,

532
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,160
you might have a specified role in your family of

533
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,240
being the primary breadwinner. But that's like, you know, if

534
00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:45,599
anybody specialized role. I make the analogy to Apple. Apple

535
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,119
has stores that bring in all the revenue. That doesn't

536
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,960
mean the stores are more important than the design. And

537
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,599
so I think valuing stay at home wives, acknowledging stay

538
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,440
at home dads. They're a small minority making life better

539
00:27:59,519 --> 00:28:02,039
for stay home wives. And actually my old county, Montgomery County,

540
00:28:02,079 --> 00:28:04,039
which I hate on all the time, actually had a

541
00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:07,359
lot of really good library and rec center programs for

542
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:09,920
stay at home moms and their little kids. There's a

543
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,079
lot of things we can do besides saying, all right,

544
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,079
you know, things were better in the nineteen sixties when

545
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,480
you had single breadwinner and because women didn't have as

546
00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:19,559
much of an opportunity, right, men had like a sort

547
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:24,559
of affirmative action. So guys, you gotta man up, compete

548
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:28,839
with the women, get a good job, but then acknowledge

549
00:28:28,839 --> 00:28:30,960
that your family is more important. And I think if

550
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,240
I haven't, I'm not sure of this, but I think

551
00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:36,720
that when I lead with that, then it's more easier

552
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:39,279
to explain to women, not the radical feminists, but to

553
00:28:39,359 --> 00:28:43,480
normal women also women stay at home wives and moms

554
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,519
because that's most of whom stays at home. They're good

555
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:47,559
for society, they're good for your marriage, they're good for

556
00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:49,880
the kids, but they're good for everybody else's kids, and

557
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,079
not everybody can afford it. So you're actually doing a

558
00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:54,400
benefit if you could afford it and you pull that off. No.

559
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,599
Speaker 2: I was a stay at home dad for many early

560
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,440
years of my daughter, and the idea that somehow that's

561
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,759
sitting with her and playing and watching Elmo and having

562
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:05,759
lunch and going shopping and going to the park. Somehow

563
00:29:05,759 --> 00:29:09,079
that that was insuperior, that that was not as good

564
00:29:09,119 --> 00:29:11,279
as being in an office somewhere where somebody was putting

565
00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:15,960
together a spreadsheet and a slide deck to talk about

566
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,279
maximizing strategies for the quarter to come. It's insane, it's

567
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:21,319
so much better to be home with your kids. But

568
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,119
we have been told, however, I mean the society in general.

569
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,240
The lessons over the last twenty thirty forty years have

570
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,880
been that work is the is where you get your fulfillment,

571
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,960
and somehow the idea of girl bossing your way through

572
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,119
an email job until you're thirty two thirty three is

573
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,920
preferable to actually check out a little bit earlier and

574
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,279
taking time with the kids. I don't see that message

575
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:44,960
changing anytime soon unless women start to ask for something different.

576
00:29:44,759 --> 00:29:48,319
Speaker 6: And I see some positive signs. And now part of

577
00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:52,039
it is, you know, it's in conservative subcultures that you

578
00:29:52,079 --> 00:29:58,119
see these positive signs. But I do think that, yeah,

579
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,960
that the idea of that marriage and family can be

580
00:30:01,119 --> 00:30:05,240
fulfilling with normies, that's what we have to worry about.

581
00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:07,519
Right There are going to be people who are going

582
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:11,640
to be one girl bosses, but also it's an opportunity

583
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,559
for schools to do something different. I always think about that.

584
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:17,279
You talk about careers, does anybody talk about which careers

585
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:20,640
are more family friendly than other careers. I always think,

586
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,519
on the one hand, something has a ton of flexibility,

587
00:30:24,079 --> 00:30:27,400
like being a writer. On the other hand, something that

588
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,279
has just sort of infinite demand and a different type

589
00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:33,799
of flexibility, like being a nurse. Nurses if they're like, oh,

590
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,599
I'm not going to work for the next four months

591
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,559
and then I'll call you and you'll give me shifts,

592
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,160
they can do that. And it's just going to get

593
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,640
more extreme as the population agents. So when you're in school,

594
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:46,960
when you're in leaving high school, going into college, are

595
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,839
you thinking I want to be a parent, which career

596
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,880
not only can make money, but also in one way

597
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,400
or another fit well within family life. Schools could lead

598
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,720
the role in planting that idea in people's head.

599
00:31:02,079 --> 00:31:05,079
Speaker 2: How about this, Let's posit something contrapositive. Let let's let's

600
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,279
say that what we've seen in the last X number

601
00:31:08,319 --> 00:31:11,440
of years and is an expansion of the opportunities open

602
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,039
to women, and that this is good and that they

603
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:16,880
are no longer locked necessarily into a profession where they have,

604
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:17,960
you know, a life where they have to be a

605
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,720
secretary for three years and then go home and stay

606
00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:21,559
there forever until the kids are out, and then they

607
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,480
either do the Betty for damn thing and pop pills

608
00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:25,680
or they join in our class or whatever. We have

609
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,640
a new paradigm where they could work, where there's more flexibility,

610
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,720
more understanding of diverse roles for women. And if the

611
00:31:31,799 --> 00:31:35,440
consequence of this is a lower birth rate, that's not

612
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:38,720
a bad trade off to make, because we have expanded

613
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,880
opportunity and rights to some people and this is the cost,

614
00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:46,160
but overall society benefits from this expansion of rights and

615
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,359
erosion of the old restrictive social model. Someone might make

616
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:53,400
that case, might they not?

617
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 6: Yes, And I mean I've thrown a couple of things. A.

618
00:31:57,359 --> 00:31:59,880
It is true that stay at home moms used to

619
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,759
be a lot less happy than they are today, in

620
00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:04,519
large part because a lot of women were what you

621
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:07,759
were describing. They didn't choose to be stay at home moms.

622
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:10,279
But if they weren't, you know, top of the class,

623
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,599
absolute a plus, they were not going to have the

624
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,319
opportunities to stay in the workforce. So now that women

625
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,720
who are staying at home moms basically have chosen it,

626
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,480
they're a lot happier. But b if more education, more

627
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:28,559
education for women is going to translate into a lower

628
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:31,079
birth rate in most societies. But that means that we

629
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,599
have to ask, Okay, what are the things that we

630
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:38,799
are willing to change to help people have as many

631
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:41,559
babies as they want and want more babies than they

632
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,119
currently want. And for me, part of that is has

633
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,960
to do with revitalizing neighborhoods, making parenting more fun, making

634
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,599
housing more affordable. Housing is the affordability story. I can't

635
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:56,640
afford kids, that's mostly bs. But when it comes to

636
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,000
owning a home, I really I think the numbers really

637
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:01,960
show that that is driving down the birth right that

638
00:33:02,079 --> 00:33:04,079
homes are getting. So there are all sorts of things

639
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:09,079
where if we take some moderate amount of feminism as

640
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:11,759
a given and a positive thing, we can say, Okay, hey,

641
00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:15,559
let's dial back some of the autonomy worshiping feminism, but

642
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,160
b let's find all these other real world ways to

643
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:18,960
promote family.

644
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

645
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: Well, your mention of housing is a good lead in

646
00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:24,440
for me wanting to go at this at the macro

647
00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:26,960
level instead of the neighborhood and household level we've been

648
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,720
mostly talking about. And so you know, some of our

649
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,440
friends sake, and we have the childcare tax credit, and

650
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,759
a lot of our pro family friends say let's make

651
00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:38,680
that bigger, and our supply side friends say, no, that

652
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:41,200
keeps us from lowering rates. It would be better. And

653
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,160
then I raise my hand and point to Hungary, which,

654
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,359
as you know, very pro family country. The third latest innovation

655
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:51,039
is if you have three children or more, you are

656
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,279
exempt from the income tax for life. That's the ultimate

657
00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:56,640
supply side policy.

658
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,319
Speaker 5: Right. It's not clear whether it has moved the needle

659
00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:00,000
fertility there.

660
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: It's ticked up some.

661
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 5: But the point is, is there any macro.

662
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,839
Speaker 3: Policies something not crazy like that, but something really out

663
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,920
of box like that that could reinforce this and actually

664
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:11,760
nudge the fertility rate up in a significant way.

665
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 6: Well, I'm skeptical of some of what Hungary is doing.

666
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,719
Has been great and it's working, and they've just almost

667
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,559
setting the norm that family this is what grown ups do.

668
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,920
You grow up, you finish school, you get a job,

669
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,039
you get married, you have kids. Like, restoring that as

670
00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:27,760
a norm would be good. But you know one thing

671
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,400
they have that underminds that norm. That tax policy you're

672
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,639
talking about, it only applies to women because they don't

673
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,079
treat the household, the family as a tax unit. They

674
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:43,119
only treat women. So our tax policy actually understands that

675
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,440
the money I make isn't my money, It belongs to

676
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,639
me and my wife and so like it basically gets

677
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:51,320
divided by two for our tax purposes. So Hungary isn't

678
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,199
quite doing that. I would think if if you just

679
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,119
said I only get to use the federal government tools,

680
00:34:57,199 --> 00:34:59,280
and so I don't get to like pave new sidewalks

681
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,480
or like abolished travel baseball or any of the rest

682
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,840
of that. If I only get to use federal government tools,

683
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,880
I would think, what can we do to promote the

684
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,119
creation of new housing, and specifically, I think, and I'm

685
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:17,039
researching this now, I think sort of that there's something

686
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:22,639
between sort of large massive lots and MC mansions and

687
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,239
massive apartment buildings where the sweet spot lies. That's pro

688
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,239
family housing, town homes, that kind of thing, pro family

689
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,320
more housing would be a big part of it. And

690
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,000
I mean that would be the number one thing I

691
00:35:38,039 --> 00:35:40,719
would do. And then I would make sure that employers

692
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,639
feel free to use a horrible word to discriminate, to

693
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:48,800
discriminate in favor of parents and families, and they do

694
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,360
to some extent, right Like American Enterprise in WHIT pays

695
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,000
my health insurance most of it. What I pay for

696
00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:57,320
my premiums is equal to somebody who has one kid,

697
00:35:57,679 --> 00:35:59,920
but AI then is paying for all six of mic.

698
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:02,880
So there is some pro family discrimination.

699
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 5: Like I was glad you slip that into it. I

700
00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:07,079
wanted to mention that you're doing your part.

701
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's lead with our chin and just say no

702
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,199
employers are allowed to promote family, and there's reason for

703
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:15,920
them to do it, which is that fathers, married fathers

704
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:22,360
are better workers than other men. And so but yeah, really,

705
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,800
right now, I don't know, maybe you guys have other

706
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,840
macro proposals, and I'll tell you what I think of them,

707
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,039
but something that would promote more family housing.

708
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a question. You think that kids are

709
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:41,440
good and families are good. And you also, and we

710
00:36:41,519 --> 00:36:45,880
talked about this on my podcast, brought in their religious element,

711
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,719
which you've mentioned here as well. From a completely agnostic,

712
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:57,000
hash even schatological view, is this choice or do we

713
00:36:57,079 --> 00:36:59,840
have to do this in some form or another. Big

714
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:03,119
if you look at say the federal budget, there is

715
00:37:03,159 --> 00:37:09,800
a catastrophic consequence of not having kids. Our system is

716
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,159
set up, not just Social Security and Medicare and other programs,

717
00:37:13,159 --> 00:37:16,679
but our economy is set up atop the presumption that

718
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,440
either we are going to have lots of kids or

719
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,119
we're going to have lots of immigrants, and if we

720
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:25,239
don't do one or both of those things, it all collapses.

721
00:37:25,639 --> 00:37:28,760
So is this a Tim Connie thinks or is this

722
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,320
actually Tim Connie knows and we're now just fighting over

723
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:32,960
the details.

724
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 6: Well, so, a one of the things I try to

725
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,719
do with my books is to paint a positive vision

726
00:37:41,039 --> 00:37:44,559
to inspire someone. So I start with me taking my

727
00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:47,079
son to little to t ball and then realizing it

728
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:49,000
was a bunch of parents hanging around drinking and it

729
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,360
was the most fun thing in the world. And this

730
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,320
too can be yours, dear listener. But on the on

731
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,800
the darker side, I don't think talking about social security

732
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,920
and medicare is dark enough because, as Krugman says, the

733
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,239
sainted Paul Krugman, we could just print more money and so,

734
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,440
but money is really only a reflection of productive work.

735
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,960
And so the problem isn't just that there's going to

736
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,159
be fewer people paying into a retirement system for more retirees.

737
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:21,880
It's going to be the fewer people doing productive work.

738
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,800
And maybe Google Gemini can replace the nine to one

739
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,920
to one dispatcher on the other end of the phone

740
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,199
very adequately and we can get away with massively smaller workforce,

741
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:34,480
but maybe not, and that's a huge gamble. So fewer

742
00:38:34,519 --> 00:38:37,320
people doing productive work is I think a bigger problem.

743
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,639
And then you mentioned immigration. A our three top sources

744
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:45,000
of immigration in the United States, the highest number of

745
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,400
immigrants come from Mexico, China, and India. All three of

746
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,159
those countries are below replacement level themselves. So if there's

747
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,679
one country that's not having babies and it can import babies,

748
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,840
that's fine. The global birth rate might be low replacement

749
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,159
right now, it's right out about the replacement, right, So

750
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,800
that's would the US win in that regard, Probably we would.

751
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,039
We would probably keep drawing people in. But it's also

752
00:39:13,159 --> 00:39:17,000
not sustainable. I think Europe is more acute the civilizational

753
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,400
problems there because they're getting they're getting Muslims in a

754
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,119
formerly Christian world. Well, we're getting largely Christians and a

755
00:39:25,199 --> 00:39:29,280
still kind of Christian world. But I think that trying

756
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:34,079
to replace babies with immigrants really doesn't work. The way

757
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:39,639
I treat my children is not a relationship of equality, right.

758
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,519
If we're going to treat immigrants the way adult parents

759
00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:45,599
treat children, that's a pretty unstable situation. I don't know

760
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:47,679
what you think about that, but I think that immigrants

761
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,039
are plus in the US. But saying as Bell saw

762
00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:53,440
Hill at Brookings, who she was like the hero of

763
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,480
one of my earlier books, but I quote her as

764
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:58,159
a foil, she says, we don't need babies. We don't

765
00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:00,360
need more babies, we just need more immigrants. Think that

766
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,280
that is setting up that is not the formula for

767
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,079
social peace.

768
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 1: I certainly agree with you that I don't want you

769
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:08,800
to treat me like you do your.

770
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 2: Children versus immigrants. Children more likely to carry on the

771
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,440
nature of the character the founding precipts of the culture

772
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,760
into which they were born. So there's that. Then again,

773
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,719
when it comes to the future, people may say, well,

774
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,400
you know what, I am not exactly all that upset

775
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,840
about the idea of elon Musk optimist robots taking care

776
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,119
of me when when I'm in the home, singing me

777
00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:36,880
a nice little song and picking me up with with gentle,

778
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,199
loving hands. So maybe you know, the automation will do

779
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,119
the rest of it. Who knows, but that there's a.

780
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 6: Lot of people who would prefer to not talk to

781
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,320
another human being. So all you introvert listeners out there, like, wow,

782
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:49,079
robots so much better.

783
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,119
Speaker 2: Than he sounds awesome, especially since by then they'll probably

784
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:55,039
be on Mars as well, doing line dances for tiktoks,

785
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:57,519
and you know, you'll be able to communicate with you'll

786
00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:00,199
be able to adopt an optimist on you do your

787
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,960
time sharing with a robot on Mars. I mean, entirely possible.

788
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,840
But and I like all these possibilities because I am

789
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,239
generally bullish and optimistic about humanity and its accomplishments. But

790
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,880
we began by talking about how there's the West has

791
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,639
a civilizational sads. Yes, you know, in the seventies people

792
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:20,400
were saying, I'm not gonna have kids because there's gonna

793
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,800
be famine. In the eighties they were saying, I'm not

794
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,760
gonna have kids because there was gonna be nuclear war.

795
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,400
And then it became I'm not gonna have kids because

796
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,119
it was climate change, which all sounded like excuses. What

797
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:29,800
these people really seem to come down to is what

798
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,119
you're saying before, is the idea not just that Western

799
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:34,800
civilization is some sort of baleful influence on the planet,

800
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,719
but that humanity in general is a gross imposition at best,

801
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,760
and a horrible virus attack on Gaya at worse, and

802
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,320
that we really don't deserve to have stewardship at this

803
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,559
place because we've done nothing but mucket up. And I

804
00:41:48,639 --> 00:41:52,360
all of this comes from self detestation of culture. It

805
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,559
comes from you know, what people call cultural Marxism in

806
00:41:55,559 --> 00:41:56,760
the rest of it. But I think you can put

807
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,639
it all at the feet of World War One and

808
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:01,400
what it did to the spirit of Europe. And if

809
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,000
I could go back in history, I wouldn't kill baby Hitler,

810
00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:07,760
I'd killed baby Gobriel Princeps, because then maybe we'd have

811
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,719
a fighting chance in the twenty first century. Tim, it's

812
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,880
been great fun, I tell you what.

813
00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:15,079
Speaker 6: I love that theory. That's great. That should have been

814
00:42:15,159 --> 00:42:17,280
the opening to my book. Forget about the Tea Bault.

815
00:42:18,599 --> 00:42:21,039
Speaker 2: There we go, family unfriendly, How our culture made raising

816
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,039
kids much harder than it aids to be. The later

817
00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:25,559
from Tim Gurney the American Enterprise Institute, and of course

818
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:28,239
you can read them, I assume in the Washington Examiner

819
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:29,320
at regular intervals.

820
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 6: Correct, Tim, absolutely, thank you for having me measure.

821
00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 2: We will talk to you later. See you then next book,

822
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,000
if not earlier. Well, that was fun. And of course

823
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,639
there's more things in the world to discuss, and I'm

824
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:45,480
trying to think what they might be. We have and say, okay,

825
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:50,199
we did redistricting. Right, we've already beaten a Sydney Sweeney

826
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,360
story into the pulp for two weeks or something like that.

827
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:56,599
What was the one to tell? Yeah, but you know

828
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:59,079
there's there's there's booting and Trump going on, and there's

829
00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:01,960
the Ukraine War. I mean, I'm just I don't regard

830
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,719
that stuff as being Oh, I know, I know, Israel

831
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,360
wants to take over the entirety of Gaza. Good idea,

832
00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:11,039
bad idea. If Israel is going to be seen as

833
00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:13,800
the equivalent of Nanzi Germany, and its actions are going

834
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,320
to be seen as the equivalent of the Nazi stormtroopers

835
00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:18,800
for doing what they've done thus far, there is nothing

836
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,559
left rhetorically for their critics to accuse them of being

837
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:23,800
if they take over the entirety of Gaza, striven of

838
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,800
Hamas and do what they will, you guys, what say you?

839
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,679
Speaker 3: Well, I think maybe they don't have a choice. I'm

840
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,719
sure Israel does not want to go back in and

841
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,400
run Gaza, and there's a reason they got out twenty

842
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:34,800
years ago.

843
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 5: They were sick of the place.

844
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, I think they're calling not

845
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,199
exactly a bluff, but I think that we can tell

846
00:43:41,199 --> 00:43:43,679
that Hamas is not going to surrender. They're not going

847
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,920
to make a deal for any hostages, and so the

848
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,639
only thing left for Israel to do is finish the

849
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,880
job and try and find hostages. Well, Hamas put out

850
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,079
that gruesome video of an emaciated hostage digging his own grave.

851
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:58,039
Speaker 5: They didn't just.

852
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 3: Put that out, you know, locally, they put it out

853
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,000
for the whole world to see, and maybe they're taunting

854
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:05,599
Israel to occupy the whole place. I don't know, but

855
00:44:05,639 --> 00:44:08,360
I think Israel now has to completely finish them off

856
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,800
and root the whole place out. And it's going to

857
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,480
be difficult, it's going to cause a big ruckus. But

858
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,159
the status quo is not tolerable, and it may mean,

859
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,920
I hate to say this, it may mean that the

860
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,719
rest of the hostages are going to end up being

861
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,360
killed because I'm not sure anybody has complete control of them.

862
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: Anyway.

863
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,639
Speaker 2: Nothing enriches am aw some more like defeat.

864
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:33,039
Speaker 1: Yes, Charles Well, I don't know the answer, because I'm

865
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:36,039
not sure that there is one. I do know this

866
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,159
that Israel is in a very difficult position because a

867
00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:46,000
it is surrounded still by people who want it to

868
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,760
be annihilated, and that is an intolerable place for any

869
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:55,119
country to be. I've said before that if a state

870
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,840
were in this position that learned a nation in America,

871
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,960
they would of course behave in the Israel Hers they

872
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,800
wouldn't tolerate, they wouldn't put up with it. The New

873
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,159
York Times always talks about Israel as if it's desire

874
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:12,199
not to be evaporated is some foible that is unique

875
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,440
to it. It's actually a human trait. It is a

876
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:19,000
human inevitability, and so it's trying everything it can to

877
00:45:19,199 --> 00:45:22,599
extricate itself from that position, and it's doing it while

878
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:29,239
b people are typically deranged in describing and judging it.

879
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:32,079
There is a double standard with Israel. Some of its

880
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:36,519
anti Semitism, some of it is weird progressive hierarchies in play.

881
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:42,400
But Israel does anything, and like that Donald Trump meme,

882
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,679
half the world comes in, it says wrong. And I

883
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,239
don't know what you do when you're in this terrible

884
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,880
situation for which there's no obvious answer, and even when

885
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,599
you do the right things, you're told that you are

886
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,719
the worst country that's ever existed. So I find it

887
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:06,519
really hard to judge. I just can't imagine the decision

888
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:10,360
making process that the cabinet is engaged in because it

889
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,639
doesn't obtain anywhere else in the world. There simply isn't

890
00:46:13,639 --> 00:46:16,239
another situation like this. When I was a kid, there

891
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,440
were two supposedly intractable global problems. And I'd say this

892
00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:21,639
not because I had any insight into them at all.

893
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:23,840
I knew nothing about politics. But you'd hear about it.

894
00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:29,280
One was Israel and its neighbors, and the other was Ireland,

895
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,960
and that one was a cause very close to me

896
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,840
when I was ten years old. The notion that four

897
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,639
years hence the Irish question would be resolved was laughable.

898
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:41,559
Speaker 2: That was an.

899
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 1: Extraordinary achievement and one that no one I knew saw

900
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,639
coming or believed would stick once it had been put

901
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:55,960
into place. But the actors in Ireland were different than

902
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,920
they are in the Middle East. They weren't twenty six,

903
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:07,239
nor the islands surrounding the south. So you have a

904
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:14,760
bizarre situation and it's impossible to know what's gonna happen next.

905
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,800
So yeah, this is the latest attempt to do something

906
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,800
about it. Will it work? I just have no idea.

907
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 2: I just wonder what the future bringings for Israel. Says

908
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,599
all right, this is it. You've crossed the line. Now

909
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,679
we're going to move in. We're going to take over

910
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,280
your entire territory. We're going to build it up. We're

911
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,719
going to modernize the infrastructure. We're going to seal all

912
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,159
the tunnels. We're gonna have the hospitals not be tunnels

913
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:38,519
with terrorist centers. We're going to rebuild civil society, restaurants,

914
00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:40,800
nice beaches and the rest of it. And then and

915
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,360
then we're going to leave. Don't make us do this,

916
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,480
I mean, last thing before we go. We got one

917
00:47:47,519 --> 00:47:49,880
more interesting little pequin subject to discuss. But I want

918
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,719
to tell you that Ricochet meetups are coming. Randy's getting

919
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,320
a group together next weekend in Detroit August fifteenth through

920
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,519
the eighteenth in Detroit, in Motor City, whether it's downtown

921
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:01,679
amongst their new beautiful reef for sky scrappers, I don't know.

922
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,039
You'll just have to go to Ricochet and check Granny

923
00:48:04,119 --> 00:48:06,480
Dude gaging interest in an upstate New York meet up

924
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,280
in September. So if you're a Ricochet or a Ricochet

925
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,360
as we'd like to say, up there, hop into the

926
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,159
comments and say whether or not you'd be willing to

927
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,519
perambulate up to there. Red Herring just posted about a

928
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:20,800
Ricochet at Sea cruise meetup to tour the Caribbean this December.

929
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,800
And again I'm just distempted because I love the cruise ships.

930
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,800
I love going on Caribbean Johnson doing nothing but basking

931
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,280
and eating and drinking and the rest of it. So

932
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,519
I don't know, maybe I don't know. Somebody want to

933
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,760
somebody want to float my boat there, And of course

934
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,880
Ricochet fantasy football is going on as well. Wait a minute,

935
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,920
you say, I thought this was an extremely political site

936
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,679
that was hyper focused on the issues of the day. No,

937
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,639
there's a great community there and fantasy football in addition

938
00:48:46,679 --> 00:48:49,360
to the conversations about old tech and movies and radio

939
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,719
and sports and the rest of it. It's all there

940
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,280
at ricochet dot com, and the member feed is where

941
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,679
you will find these things. Last point, boys, Jim Acosta

942
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,800
had an interview with a person who no longer exists,

943
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:04,079
the digital simulacrum of somebody and asking him about gun control.

944
00:49:04,199 --> 00:49:08,000
Surprisingly not the creation or demon take a choice parted

945
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:12,000
back the opinions of the Konyacenti and the Acosta segment

946
00:49:12,039 --> 00:49:15,480
of things. What do you think about this? I'm not

947
00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:21,519
happy about reconstituting people via AI and having them say

948
00:49:21,559 --> 00:49:23,000
things from beyond the pale.

949
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: Really, really, given the fact that Jim Acosta was the

950
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:31,480
primary embodiment of fake news as Trump understood it, he

951
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:33,840
just went out and ratified that, in fact, he is

952
00:49:34,159 --> 00:49:37,239
the leading avatar of fake news. I mean, I just

953
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,679
he must really be dumb to think that this was

954
00:49:40,679 --> 00:49:41,320
a good idea.

955
00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:42,679
Speaker 2: Girls.

956
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:49,079
Speaker 1: It is evil, It is grotesque, and the blame in

957
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:52,599
my book goes to Acosta. I don't think even seven

958
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:57,000
years later, you can go too hot after the parents

959
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:03,760
who are still grieving. This was Macosta's responsibility to say no,

960
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:09,079
but he can't help himself. And the weirdest thing about

961
00:50:09,079 --> 00:50:13,360
this James, is that in his descriptions and defenses of

962
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,519
what he did, he seems earnestly to believe that he

963
00:50:16,679 --> 00:50:21,559
was talking to something that approximates a sentient person rather

964
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:28,400
than an answering machine. And he used it to launder

965
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,599
his own views and then got all outraged when people

966
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:36,760
said that there was ugly. The judgment is so bad.

967
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,559
It's hard to know. How could you imagine coming up

968
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:46,880
with this idea at all, but running it past literally anyone,

969
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,920
you know in the whole word, your craziest friend, your

970
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,800
drug adult, craziest friend would go out and it has

971
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,360
a bit much Jim, and then he went with it.

972
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 6: How did that happen?

973
00:50:57,199 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 2: I know? And it wasn't really very good AI at all.

974
00:51:02,199 --> 00:51:04,559
The delivery was so robotic that, as I said elsewhere,

975
00:51:04,639 --> 00:51:07,599
it made Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Terminator movie sound like

976
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:09,360
Paul lind in Hollywood Squares. I mean, it.

977
00:51:11,159 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 5: Was just bad.

978
00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:15,039
Speaker 2: But you know, on the other hand, you know, people

979
00:51:15,079 --> 00:51:17,800
hate that, and then they will find some other little

980
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,480
bit of AI on the internet. Donald Trump standing on

981
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:23,360
the roof of the White House. Somebody made him perfectly

982
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,320
do the speech from Monty Python Holy Grail with John

983
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,039
Cleese taunting King Arthur. And then you say, but that's funny,

984
00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:34,760
But that's good. We have no unifying moral objection to AI,

985
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,719
which is one of the reasons that we're just floundering

986
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,920
around with it and castigating this and laughing at that.

987
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,360
Maybe we'll fix it by next week. Maybe by next

988
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,440
week we'll have an AI version of me to babel

989
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:48,519
along and break and wonder and stumble his way out

990
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:51,760
of the podcast Stumble. No, I've got two signposts that

991
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,760
I have to tap. One of them is please do

992
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,960
give us those five star reviews wherever you can, and

993
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,199
two please not please. It's for your own good. Go

994
00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:03,119
to ricochet dot com and find the member feed. Oh gosh,

995
00:52:03,159 --> 00:52:05,519
you gotta pay for it, right, but it's nothing sheckls,

996
00:52:05,639 --> 00:52:07,639
just pennies a day, and you will find the community

997
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:10,239
you've been looking for in the Internet all your days.

998
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,280
And frankly, if you don't like what we're saying there,

999
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,119
start your own thread, have your own meetup. It's a

1000
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:17,079
community as good as the people who are in it,

1001
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:20,920
and that's why it is different. Different. Also is Stephen

1002
00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:23,920
and Charles two the most steadfast podcasters. Has been my

1003
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,800
pleasure to work with gentlemen again this week. I've had

1004
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,199
a great deal of find and I hope you have

1005
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,079
as well. Good weekend to everybody, and we'll see you

1006
00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:34,199
all in the comments, said Ricochet four point oh bye bye,