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Speaker 4: Welcome to the Great ourn Pagan's Podcast. Here we discuss
Speaker 4: all mathers, Paganism, Evanism, Witchcraft, history and mythology. EVA like
Speaker 4: something nice in the comments. Share this with everyone and
Speaker 4: enjoy yourselves on this amazing episode of the Gray heart
Speaker 4: Bags podcast.
Speaker 5: H m hm, they're very proud of you.
Speaker 6: Interesting.
Speaker 2: I thought i'd just get the recordings started.
Speaker 5: Of me being a medium. Thanks thanks han On.
Speaker 2: Everyone knows.
Speaker 7: If it makes you feel better. I don't necessarily identify
Speaker 7: as we do, but I do. I'm a lucid dreamer
Speaker 7: and I do often see the dead in my dreams.
Speaker 7: So I have a guess as to what you're seeing
Speaker 7: behind me because I see her in my dreams.
Speaker 6: Well, it could be two people.
Speaker 5: It feels like a maternal figure who passed before you
Speaker 5: were born. Interesting, okay, but I'm not seeing a face,
Speaker 5: that's all. I'm getting.
Speaker 2: Faceless and spooky.
Speaker 5: That's how your brother presents himself to me all the time.
Speaker 5: It's faceless, just to see if I spook, and it's like.
Speaker 2: No, And I guess with that introduction, welcome all to
Speaker 2: the Grey Horned Pagans Podcast. As you can hear, as
Speaker 2: you can see, we got started already, and I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, I can try and get everyone together so
Speaker 2: that we may start recording, or I can just hit
Speaker 2: record and see what happens. So here we are, of course,
Speaker 2: with the lovely Wafy fire Faye, who is graciously joining us.
Speaker 8: It's been a while actually since you've been on.
Speaker 2: And of course our guest Emma McDonald, a writer, mostly
Speaker 2: a writer. I've been reading her book today. I've been
Speaker 2: reading it all day. Came through chapter ten, a little
Speaker 2: past chapter ten, kitty, of course. Sorry, sorry.
Speaker 5: Our famiers are always going to be part of the show, honey.
Speaker 5: We can't edit them out. You know this, it's always
Speaker 5: been moving there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I couldn't even added the mouth if
Speaker 2: I if I try to, like just make their way
Speaker 2: back in. But yeah, Emma, thank you for joining us,
Speaker 2: and thank you for contacting us or having your agents
Speaker 2: or whoever it is contacting us.
Speaker 6: Michael, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, of course, of course, introduce yourself for the
Speaker 2: people who may not know you just yet but absolutely should.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So I'm Emma. I am an author. My debut novel,
Speaker 6: whispers On's Foul, just came out in October.
Speaker 7: I'm also a witch and if you could see my
Speaker 7: setup behind me, it's a little bit of fact in
Speaker 7: terms of the book because it is a very fictionalized accountant.
Speaker 6: But yeah, so that's me.
Speaker 7: I have my little familiar, as you mentioned, with me,
Speaker 7: who may or may not make other appearance.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they'll they'll make an appearance familiar to of
Speaker 2: a tendency to do so.
Speaker 5: She's already stealing on the show. She's right behind you,
Speaker 5: looking at you fondly and now looking away like I
Speaker 5: didn't do nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like something that's familiar. How did you
Speaker 2: came up with the inspiration for your book? I mean,
Speaker 2: at first, when I read the summary, I was like, well,
Speaker 2: this is very Harry Potter inspired as well, but with
Speaker 2: a very feminine, witchy tone instat and I definitely do
Speaker 2: recognize some things, but at the same time it's fastly different.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think as I mentioned, it's a little bit
Speaker 7: like fact meeting fiction. So a lot of the inspiration
Speaker 7: I took from my own life and my own practices.
Speaker 7: And then I have always kind of been a fan
Speaker 7: of the academian at aesthetic. And at some point my
Speaker 7: agent came to me and said, you know, this is
Speaker 7: actually really popular in the market right now.
Speaker 6: It seems to be your vibe. Would you want to
Speaker 6: write something in that vein?
Speaker 7: And I said sure, and we started brainstorming ideas and
Speaker 7: that's kind of.
Speaker 6: How we ended up with the full story.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's it's really it's it's an awesome book
Speaker 2: at very very detailed, indeed, like very descriptive. The character
Speaker 2: like you can if you're if you have a rich imagination,
Speaker 2: you can like really just see them in your in
Speaker 2: your mind's eye. That's that's really cool. I mean, I
Speaker 2: guess speaking of familiars, that's one thing that I have
Speaker 2: been reading in your book that I haven't seen written
Speaker 2: in that way anywhere else, that they are tattooed in
Speaker 2: a way and that they can come to life.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So it's a lot bit of magic that's tattooed into
Speaker 7: your skin so that you can kind of pull on
Speaker 7: it when you need to have strengthen your casting. So
Speaker 7: in the book, the casters will call upon them if
Speaker 7: they have to do particularly difficult spell work, or just
Speaker 7: for a little bit of company to keep them around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that sounds I mean, I, like I said,
Speaker 2: I've never seen it written like that before, and especially
Speaker 2: when I read about it's one of the characters having
Speaker 2: a was it a crow or raising tattoo familiar?
Speaker 6: I mean that's the character.
Speaker 2: I have a crow tattoo myself as well.
Speaker 5: Well, you have my familiar on your other side, darling,
Speaker 5: don't you not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, like actually have a wolf on the
Speaker 2: the other side, by the way, Yeah, thanks, thanks. They
Speaker 2: they were a there were a lot of pain six
Speaker 2: and a half and eight hours. So yeah, but you
Speaker 2: mentioned being a witch. I mean just you know, looking
Speaker 2: at your your background, like the room you're in, it's
Speaker 2: like no way, really tell us a little about your
Speaker 2: practices and maybe how you how you have woven that
Speaker 2: into your your writings, because I mean, there's there's magical
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Speaker 7: So I tend to kind of gravitate more towards greencraft
Speaker 7: and then also dreamcraft a little bit, but I don't
Speaker 7: know if you can actually see bind me. That little
Speaker 7: wicker thing is just full of all of my herbs
Speaker 7: and tinctures and all the way down.
Speaker 6: And then I do.
Speaker 7: A lot, As I said, I'm a lucid dreamer, and
Speaker 7: so I do a lot of my meditation and intentions and.
Speaker 6: Practices with dreams as well.
Speaker 7: So there's my two kind of evacillate between those two mainly,
Speaker 7: and I think that shows up in my writing a lot.
Speaker 7: So in this book there is obviously the main character
Speaker 7: also kind of has a little bit of a love
Speaker 7: for all things green and growing. And then I do
Speaker 7: have other characters and other books planned that lean a
Speaker 7: little bit more into the dreaming side of things as well,
Speaker 7: and the more esoteric side of things.
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, it's it's dreaming. It seems to pop
Speaker 2: up more and more and more. I've actually done a
Speaker 2: show quite recently with someone who calls himself the dream Wizards,
Speaker 2: all kinds of dream interpretation, which is really interesting. Never
Speaker 2: be much of a loocid dreamer myself, but there is
Speaker 2: definitely there's there's power and Hondad. You have any things
Speaker 2: that you wanted to know, things that you familiar.
Speaker 5: You're you're distracting me. She's talking about something. I am
Speaker 5: so sorry.
Speaker 6: She's also extracted me if it's if it helps.
Speaker 5: Have you practiced witchcraft your whole life or when did
Speaker 5: you start getting into it?
Speaker 6: I think there was a I didn't fully practice my
Speaker 6: whole life.
Speaker 7: I think I was always drawn towards it most people,
Speaker 7: but most of my friends kind of because I have
Speaker 7: gotten more intentional about it in more recent years, and
Speaker 7: people that have known me on either side of that
Speaker 7: have kind of been like, yeah, that just makes a
Speaker 7: lot of sense for you.
Speaker 6: So there's definitely I've always.
Speaker 7: Been drawn to the kind of magic of nature side
Speaker 7: of things, and I've always been a lucid dreamer. In fact,
Speaker 7: my whole family is I didn't realize that people weren't
Speaker 7: lucid dreamers until I was much older, because it was
Speaker 7: very normal in the family to just come down to
Speaker 7: breakfast and be like, so I had this really vivid,
Speaker 7: lucid dream last night and like detail everything.
Speaker 6: And it wasn't until one of my friends I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 7: Like how in dreams you just do this and she
Speaker 7: was like, no, that's not a thing that everybody does.
Speaker 7: So that kind of got me started I think on
Speaker 7: being a little bit more intentional about it and looking
Speaker 7: into various practices and things. And then I did live
Speaker 7: with a coven of witches recently, so that definitely threw
Speaker 7: me more into the wider world of witches and the
Speaker 7: various types of witchcraft.
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh wow, that's so your whole family has
Speaker 2: really been like a witchy family, if you will.
Speaker 7: It's funny because the rest of them are not necessarily
Speaker 7: like they their offices don't like this, but like they're not.
Speaker 6: They don't embrace the I guess they don't.
Speaker 7: They wouldn't identify as witches or really embrace witchcraft, but
Speaker 7: they do just have a habit of casually dropping random
Speaker 7: things like my dad will occasionally be like, oh yeah,
Speaker 7: like you know, a prophetic dream or too. That's not
Speaker 7: a thing that normal people talk about, but they'll just
Speaker 7: talk about it as if it's very normal. But then
Speaker 7: they also won't identify as switches. Were dub into witchcraft all.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's interesting. So for you, it's like just
Speaker 2: normal tea talk, you know.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but it's framed as like a completely normal it's not.
Speaker 7: It's not anything out of the ordinary until I go
Speaker 7: talk to other people and then they're.
Speaker 6: Like, that's it's a little.
Speaker 8: Witchy, only a little, only a little.
Speaker 2: Trying to keep this going. I'm still a little hungover.
Speaker 8: From last night.
Speaker 5: The wife he told you not to drink too much
Speaker 5: because you have a guest tomorrow, and you didn't listen.
Speaker 7: Yes, no problem. I also was I had a late
Speaker 7: night as well. I am not currently but you're somewhat
Speaker 7: decent company.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Well that's that's I.
Speaker 5: Guess I'm the only one who's like somewhat aware and awake.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'll take the wheels.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I have so much on my plate
Speaker 5: right now with school. I can't think of anything right now.
Speaker 5: My brainch just dead.
Speaker 2: How did you come up with the like in your
Speaker 2: book the Forbidden Practices, slight necromancy and stuff like That's
Speaker 2: that's really what people consider to be more like dark,
Speaker 2: dark kind of witchcraft, although as as you have written it,
Speaker 2: it really sounds a lot more like just mediumship, but
Speaker 2: like on a very like a higher level. Is there
Speaker 2: anything about like the well, let's say, darker side of magic.
Speaker 2: Is it's really mh that like interest you or like I.
Speaker 7: Think I've always been kind of like interested in the
Speaker 7: macab and also you know, all things surrounding kind of death,
Speaker 7: and I mean, and so I did want to even
Speaker 7: though necromancy is in the book categorized as a forbidden magic,
Speaker 7: I did kind of want to explore the depths of
Speaker 7: it and show it in a multifaceted light rather than
Speaker 7: just like it's evil, it's dark, nobody does it. So
Speaker 7: a lot going on with that, and I won't spoil
Speaker 7: anything that's I know you're on the entire lit but
Speaker 7: you know, as you get further into the book, it
Speaker 7: is explored, I think in more detail.
Speaker 6: And I wanted to kind of show.
Speaker 7: That there are multiple sides to you know, any form
Speaker 7: of magic, but this one, in particular in this world
Speaker 7: is quite misunderstood, and just I think there's a there's
Speaker 7: a point that's made in one of.
Speaker 6: The earlier chapters, I think maybe chapter three.
Speaker 7: But in this world, one of the reasons that this
Speaker 7: magic is forbidden is because it is one that they
Speaker 7: just don't understand and they can't control it very well,
Speaker 7: and that is why there's a lot of fear surrounding it,
Speaker 7: because it's kind of beyond the parameters of control. And
Speaker 7: that in the empire, the larger empire that this book
Speaker 7: takes place in, is not something that they enjoy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I do remember reading that, of course with
Speaker 2: the age old comments attached to it. But we don't
Speaker 2: know how to control it or you know, it could
Speaker 2: be used for like it could be used for evil
Speaker 2: or dangerous things or or whatever. That's a I mean
Speaker 2: something that is you know, of course very of these times.
Speaker 2: But an argument that really that doesn't hold any true
Speaker 2: true ground. I feel like, you know, I got my
Speaker 2: water thing right here. I can use this for bad
Speaker 2: and for good if I want to. Doesn't make it
Speaker 2: a bad thing necessarily. But I guess with magic, it's
Speaker 2: it's a little little different. It's pretty, it's.
Speaker 8: Innocent, you know, it's how you how Yeah, And I.
Speaker 7: Think I think it very much depends on the person
Speaker 7: behind it rather than the practice itself, because anything can
Speaker 7: be used as a as a weapon or with ill
Speaker 7: intent if somebody is motivated enough to do that. And
Speaker 7: then so in the book, I was interested in looking
Speaker 7: into what that looks like if everybody has magic. So
Speaker 7: it's not just like magic is bad and there's some
Speaker 7: magic users and some non magic users, like everybody in
Speaker 7: this part of the world at least has magic, and
Speaker 7: so it's more of a look at how people kind
Speaker 7: of use their various powers and you know, the ones
Speaker 7: that get maligned and the ones that are celebrated, and yeah.
Speaker 2: Well everybody has magic aside from one, it seems. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm only on chapter ten. I'm not I don't know
Speaker 2: how it's gonna progress. Of course, I do hope that
Speaker 2: is gonna, you know, progress how I wanted to progress,
Speaker 2: But you know, I'll have to have to read. But
Speaker 2: just the and also what if I'm really interesting, which
Speaker 2: just thinks for incredibly good writing is of course, the
Speaker 2: main character's mother is someone high up in the school,
Speaker 2: you know, the chancellor, and she's the one who is
Speaker 2: like the outcast and all that, and how much of
Speaker 2: that is reflective on your own life and how much
Speaker 2: is just you know, I like this, you know, in
Speaker 2: in my books, So I'm gonna write like that as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So I think the in terms of like the relationships
Speaker 7: that the character has with her mother is very much
Speaker 7: kind of meant to be an echo of the larger
Speaker 7: issue at the school, where they're so focused on power
Speaker 7: and prestige and appearances to the point that it is
Speaker 7: really toxic, and I wanted to explore that on a
Speaker 7: personal level for the main character. So it's reflected both
Speaker 7: in like the larger setting and in her close personal relationships.
Speaker 7: So that is a bit meant to be like a
Speaker 7: I wouldn't say I took that from real life, but yeah,
Speaker 7: I think there's also something about the genre of dark
Speaker 7: academia that kind of the whole esthetic of it is
Speaker 7: this really like beautiful aesthetic, but it's rotten at the core,
Speaker 7: And so there was there's something about that too that
Speaker 7: I wanted to kind of have that echo in multiple
Speaker 7: places throughout the relationships with the characters, throughout the setting
Speaker 7: up school, throughout the larger setting, and the systems that
Speaker 7: are in place to kind of all tie together into
Speaker 7: a commentary on that level of toxicity. And so of
Speaker 7: course having the main character sort of come from this,
Speaker 7: I didn't want her didn't necessarily come from a position
Speaker 7: of like extreme hardship, but she is a little just
Speaker 7: a little bit offbeat from everybody else because she doesn't
Speaker 7: have access to magic, and so that is a challenge
Speaker 7: for her, and I think that puts her in a
Speaker 7: unique position to really appreciate just how toxic this world
Speaker 7: that she's in is and to have a commentary on
Speaker 7: that because of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now, and you've you've written that down wonderfully. I
Speaker 2: mean I'm trying to spoil too much as well, because
Speaker 2: I mean I am still fairly new to the dark
Speaker 2: academia kind of thing. It's more more my my wife's
Speaker 2: kind of gendre. I like the I like the heavier stuff.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like I love how the how it's so
Speaker 2: incredibly opposite. And as I she my wife will be right,
Speaker 2: but she's got some connectivity issues because of course she
Speaker 2: does no I mean I I mentioned earlier how I
Speaker 2: like do some do season like Harry Potter inspiration, But
Speaker 2: this is so incredibly the main character is the the
Speaker 2: exact opposite. Really, I'd say, like she's supposed to be
Speaker 2: a witch, but as you said, has no access to magic,
Speaker 2: doesn't really use magic. I mean the most that she does,
Speaker 2: of what everything so far is conjured her familiar ones
Speaker 2: against the most amount of magic I've seen her or
Speaker 2: have rich her doing so far, Like even her her
Speaker 2: dorm room is like nothing is magical, everything is basic,
Speaker 2: And I love that that contrast actually because in so
Speaker 2: many speaking of familiars, I yeah, this is this is
Speaker 2: my familiar. She need ak a big red Yeah, he
Speaker 2: is a sweetheart. He's a he's a pain in the ass,
Speaker 2: but he's a sweetheart. But I like very much like
Speaker 2: the how how you've written that, because in so many
Speaker 2: books where like magic is used, it's like the whole
Speaker 2: world is magic. Everything is magic, Everyone uses magic. I mean,
Speaker 2: of course, yeah, right, sure, yeah, you you just don't care.
Speaker 2: Of course, welcome to my familiar. And she you're like
Speaker 2: the main character.
Speaker 8: It's not that she's opposed to magic, but.
Speaker 2: Like almost ashamed that she has no access to it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think that it's the.
Speaker 7: Her lack of it has been such a sore point
Speaker 7: in her life for her that it is something that
Speaker 7: she really really wants. I don't know if she, I say,
Speaker 7: I don't know, like I'm not the author. I don't
Speaker 7: think it's as much that she wants it for the
Speaker 7: sake of having magic. I think that base level, she
Speaker 7: spends a good deal of the story kind of there
Speaker 7: is something that sort of regretful or she laments the
Speaker 7: fact that she doesn't have it a few times, And
Speaker 7: I think that is because She sees it as a
Speaker 7: way to have power and prestige in the world that
Speaker 7: she doesn't otherwise have. Like she understands that that is
Speaker 7: what she would need to kind of fit into this world,
Speaker 7: and without it, there's.
Speaker 6: Just not really much of a chance of that happening.
Speaker 7: So she is She does spend a good amount of
Speaker 7: the at least in the first half of the story,
Speaker 7: for sure, she spends a lot of time just kind
Speaker 7: of I think sort of almost as a reaction to
Speaker 7: not having it, Like she embraces a little bit more
Speaker 7: of the mundane that is around her in kind of
Speaker 7: a spiteful way. Yeah, she can't access magic, so she said, well,
Speaker 7: if I can't access it, I'm going to.
Speaker 6: Be like aggressively fine with where I am. But she's
Speaker 6: not really totally fine with this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it seems like very much the I mean,
Speaker 2: not that I would know, but like the struggles of
Speaker 2: a you know, a young woman growing up and coming
Speaker 2: up in the world. But it needs very spiteful like
Speaker 2: if I can't use magic, like nothing is gonna be magical,
Speaker 2: like my my dorm, Nope, even even my familiar I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: I have one, but I'm not even gonna not even
Speaker 2: gonna bother. It's it's it's very spiteful, but that also
Speaker 2: at the same time makes for a very interesting story
Speaker 2: and also of course has some some murder mystery to it, Yeah,
Speaker 2: which of course you know, is a very popular genre.
Speaker 2: And I do understand why. I mean, my wife and
Speaker 2: I I do hope she's gonna be able to make
Speaker 2: it back before the ends long lift technology. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's kind of witchcraft, but not you know, if you
Speaker 2: don't actually make it work using witchcraft, that'd be great.
Speaker 2: Where I was I going with this? No, but I
Speaker 2: I yeah, it's it's not like my wife and I
Speaker 2: are friends with at least one podcaster who does you know,
Speaker 2: true crime, and it's very very popular, so you definitely
Speaker 2: know what's genres two hits.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is just
Speaker 7: my own interest as well, Like I've always loved a
Speaker 7: good murder mystery, and I love ghost stories, and I
Speaker 7: love magic. So this is just kind of the culmination
Speaker 7: of all of those. And they say, right, what you know? So,
Speaker 7: I mean, obviously I don't know what it's like to
Speaker 7: attend a magical university, but with some caveats.
Speaker 2: There that would be awesome though. Yeah, that's I think
Speaker 2: that's a good one. If you like, if those kind
Speaker 2: of universities would exist, what kind of university would you
Speaker 2: want to go to? Like just let's play a little game,
Speaker 2: like imagine you're like you're perfect university, perfect magical university.
Speaker 2: I mean most of my audience are you know Heathens,
Speaker 2: which is Wigans. So we've all had our dreams. What
Speaker 2: would what would yours be? Like I've seen so many.
Speaker 6: By now, like what kind of magic would I study there?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Just anything, you know, like what kind of magic? Well
Speaker 8: would you wanted to be?
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, you created this this whole world already.
Speaker 6: It's funny because I don't think I would actually like
Speaker 6: to attend.
Speaker 7: Dun Hollow, which for people unfamiliar, that is the name
Speaker 7: of the university in the book, just because it is
Speaker 7: very cut throat.
Speaker 6: And elitist and there's a lot of problems with it.
Speaker 7: But if you know, you could have kind of a
Speaker 7: university without that and just go through the enjoyment of
Speaker 7: studying magic learning, I think that would be a lot
Speaker 7: more appealing. There are different in the books. There are
Speaker 7: different schools of magic that people can major in the
Speaker 7: same way that a lot of universities, you know, they
Speaker 7: have different schools and programs that you can major. So
Speaker 7: if I had to pick something along those lines from
Speaker 7: from Dunhallow, I would probably pick like the College of
Speaker 7: Healing and Herbalism, or there's the College of Illusion.
Speaker 6: And Invocation as well.
Speaker 7: So kind of I feel like that shouldn't be a
Speaker 7: surprising answer, because that means I'm either going to be
Speaker 7: studying plants and making potions and such, or I'm going
Speaker 7: to be doing like a dream and illusion magic. And
Speaker 7: given my earlier answers that I feel like that matches.
Speaker 6: Up pretty well for me. Yeah, here's what you would
Speaker 6: pick if you you could study it school.
Speaker 2: What would I thig?
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not much of a magical practitioner,
Speaker 2: but I do. I love symbolism, symbolism, symbology. I love
Speaker 2: the study of that and anything practical, anything that I can,
Speaker 2: like just work with my hands. I have a no,
Speaker 2: I have a good bring. It's weird, but I'm much
Speaker 2: much better working with my hands, so god, I don't know. Actually,
Speaker 2: I would definitely join sports team.
Speaker 7: So it sounds like if you were at you'd either
Speaker 7: be in the school of Practical spellcraft, the School of
Speaker 7: magical Theory, which is all of the theoretical magic and
Speaker 7: the study of the history of it and everything, or
Speaker 7: possibly you'd be in if you are more in the
Speaker 7: sports side of things, that would be the school of
Speaker 7: Defensive Arts, which is all the like throwing fire and
Speaker 7: ice and that kind of action based magic sort of thing.
Speaker 2: That sounds yeah, throwing fire and ice and lightning even
Speaker 2: from what I read around. Yeah, I mean, I'd be
Speaker 2: very dangerous because I look way too excited and just
Speaker 2: be like, hey, take it. And oh maybe maybe alchemy mmm,
Speaker 2: like tinkering with stuff and making stuff go boom.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there is there is a school of alchemy in
Speaker 6: this as well.
Speaker 7: And I don't know if you've gotten to this part,
Speaker 7: but like all the students are known for just randomly
Speaker 7: blowing things up, and like their whole dorm hall is
Speaker 7: just like extra fortified because they know all the weird experiment.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I just read that, read that part shortly
Speaker 2: before I before I came on, and that that seems
Speaker 2: very appropriate. You know, of course, the halls of alchemy
Speaker 2: have to be fortified because you blow up a whole
Speaker 2: wing by doing that. Oh man, you're really getting me
Speaker 2: back into reading. I've been lacking in that lot.
Speaker 8: No, but i've been. I've been lacking.
Speaker 2: And I like the fantasy whichy World's building kind of things.
Speaker 2: Even though done hollow, it is very very elitist. Indeed,
Speaker 2: it's it's almost like really prep Yeah, like prep school.
Speaker 2: And she's your your main character. She's kind of a
Speaker 2: kind of enormy really.
Speaker 6: I mean she even she is a snob sometimes too.
Speaker 7: I don't know if you've gotten to those chapters yet,
Speaker 7: but there are times where you get you pick up
Speaker 7: that she I mean, just because she's a product of
Speaker 7: the environment that she grew up in.
Speaker 6: She's never really been away from the school, so.
Speaker 7: There are times where she she sounds a little snobby
Speaker 7: or elitist herself. I wouldn't say she's the worst character.
Speaker 7: She's not the guiltiest of that.
Speaker 6: At the school.
Speaker 7: There's definitely people who are like the antagonists and stuff,
Speaker 7: are do that a lot more than she does. But
Speaker 7: I mean, even from her kind of lesser position that
Speaker 7: she has at the school, where she's, you know, the
Speaker 7: outcast of the school. Even she will sometimes throw out
Speaker 7: a line or two where it's like, all right, it's
Speaker 7: a little judgy.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I think that is just a product.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean i'd have to like read in between
Speaker 2: the lines a little bit. I do at the what
Speaker 2: is it like the Newcomers bank Hid, like the at
Speaker 2: the beginning of.
Speaker 6: The school year, the start of term faced?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 8: Know open bar. Oh yeah, it definitely tastes yeah, why, it's.
Speaker 6: Like that's the exact what I was thinking of. So yeah, she's.
Speaker 8: Which sounds recognizable as well.
Speaker 2: You know, if it's an open bar and everything is read,
Speaker 2: you're not going to get the expensive stuff.
Speaker 6: They're not shelling out that much money for the open bar.
Speaker 2: No, no, absolutely not. How much of the main character
Speaker 2: is like you, but like just bigger, grander. I mean
Speaker 2: that's in writing and in like many theatrical kind of things.
Speaker 2: I'm a big pro wrestling fan actually, and they often
Speaker 2: say that you know your character in that sport even
Speaker 2: though it's like ninety percent theater is just like take
Speaker 2: something from yourself and blow it up times one hundred.
Speaker 2: That So, how much of the at least the main
Speaker 2: character is you, and how much of it is just
Speaker 2: you know, this is what people want to read?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I like to.
Speaker 7: I never really want to have what we in the
Speaker 7: writing community called a self insert, which is essentially where
Speaker 7: the author just takes themselves and makes a fictional version
Speaker 7: out of it and to kind of live vicariously through
Speaker 7: a character. So I never really want to do that,
Speaker 7: but I do like to take, you know, a little
Speaker 7: a trait here or an interest there, and kind of
Speaker 7: put that into I really do that with every character
Speaker 7: that I write, though, Like every single character has at
Speaker 7: least one trait that I can relate to because that
Speaker 7: helps me build them as a character. So, for example,
Speaker 7: the main character shares my interest in plants. But what
Speaker 7: I say that I am like her overall in the
Speaker 7: way that she thinks about things. No, not really, because
Speaker 7: she tends to be a little bit more callous than
Speaker 7: I am. Like I would not want to necessarily be
Speaker 7: compared to her in that same Vein her best friend Fenn,
Speaker 7: for example, like I have like the aspect of his
Speaker 7: personality that kind of like wants to get along with everybody,
Speaker 7: and it's kinder than probably anybody else at the school,
Speaker 7: Like I amfuse a little bit of Not that I'm
Speaker 7: trying to throw myself flowers and be like I'm the
Speaker 7: kindest person ever, but like that little bit of like
Speaker 7: warmth I kind of took from I guess how I
Speaker 7: see myself. But then I also have, like you know,
Speaker 7: in another character, some of that snark or that like
Speaker 7: sharp wit I kind of mix, and then in the
Speaker 7: antagonist I will put in some of my flos in
Speaker 7: there and explore that. So I think there's a little
Speaker 7: piece of me in every single character, not just the
Speaker 7: main character. But I think probably she has more traits
Speaker 7: in common with me, just because I am spending the
Speaker 7: most time with her reson. But I think it's more
Speaker 7: taking those foundational traits and then drawing the lines together
Speaker 7: as they make sense with a character, rather than trying
Speaker 7: to make her an exact copy of me or something
Speaker 7: that I could relate to or you know, it's not
Speaker 7: I don't go into writing scenes with her being like
Speaker 7: what would I do in this scenario?
Speaker 6: Like I try to make her a fully fledged all
Speaker 6: of the characters really flush out enough where in any
Speaker 6: given scene I can kind of feel like, what would
Speaker 6: they do in this situation and how it make sense
Speaker 6: for the character that I'm built thus far.
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Speaker 3: Now let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you mentioned Wren, and I know this is
Speaker 2: gonna be spoilers, and I I hate you, but I
Speaker 2: have to know him and the main character. They have
Speaker 2: a history, if you will, history that they well can't
Speaker 2: seem to to really let go of. I don't spoilers,
Speaker 2: and I shouldn't be acting. But is it gonna like
Speaker 2: are they gonna come back together? Or is it you know,
Speaker 2: kind of I'm trying.
Speaker 7: To think of how I can answer this without false
Speaker 7: foot No, they are not the endgame couple, I will
Speaker 7: say there. It is explored a little bit both in
Speaker 7: this book and there so there is a sequel to
Speaker 7: this book as well.
Speaker 6: I'm actually working on a book two currently, or I.
Speaker 7: Just finished my adits for it, and it is their
Speaker 7: relationship is explored a little bit more throughout that book
Speaker 7: as well, or.
Speaker 6: Kind of in in the background.
Speaker 5: Not is it?
Speaker 6: But they're not.
Speaker 7: They're not the the sort of couple goal of the book.
Speaker 8: Oh okay, okay, now I have to keep reading.
Speaker 7: You are not the only one to think that they
Speaker 7: might be though, I've had most of the people be like, oh,
Speaker 7: so they're going to get together at the end, and
Speaker 7: I'm like, no.
Speaker 2: I mean that's it's kind of what you expect, you know,
Speaker 2: with the how like the usual teen dramas, et cetera go,
Speaker 2: it's like we know an old flame and you know,
Speaker 2: get rekindled and in the end, you know they can
Speaker 2: like it's it can just be friendship. Because of the histories,
Speaker 2: I will.
Speaker 7: Say they like friendship is their main, like the kind
Speaker 7: of foundation of their relationship. And I did want to
Speaker 7: explore I think a lot of times in fiction we
Speaker 7: look at the romantic relationships and that's like the end,
Speaker 7: I'll be all and that is the main relationship.
Speaker 6: We we give a lot of attention to it.
Speaker 7: So I did kind of want to explore with Fenn
Speaker 7: and Rose how that platonic or romantic kind of those
Speaker 7: lines can get blurred and the relationship still has a
Speaker 7: lot of value even if it's platonic. And it doesn't
Speaker 7: have to be romantic to be or I guess it
Speaker 7: doesn't have to currently be romantic to be impactful.
Speaker 6: Or you know, a very strong relationship that they have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, because that's European. That's also just the sign
Speaker 2: of a very good writer. Like there are definitely some
Speaker 2: blurred lines between Rose and Fenn, you know their interactions
Speaker 2: is like will they won't they? There's the history.
Speaker 6: Well I was also because it is a fantasy world.
Speaker 7: I was kind of like, would they even perceive of
Speaker 7: relationships as clear cut as we tend to in our
Speaker 7: society of like you have romantic relationships and you have
Speaker 7: friendships and that is it, but like, would romantic relationships
Speaker 7: even work the same way in this fantasy world? You know,
Speaker 7: it's it's really anybody's like you get to make up
Speaker 7: all the new rules for it.
Speaker 6: So I kind of had to.
Speaker 7: Walk that line up, like it has to be recognizable
Speaker 7: readers who do come from this world and are going
Speaker 7: to have certain expectations, But also I wanted to play
Speaker 7: with like it's not our world, so you know, it's
Speaker 7: maybe not entirely fair to the characters to expect them
Speaker 7: to behave in the way that you know, to people
Speaker 7: might in in our society.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, I get that. I mean if you're
Speaker 2: going to create a fantasy world, then you know, like
Speaker 2: by all means break all the rules.
Speaker 7: Yeah, which is to say that a book to Polly
Speaker 7: Emory also gets explored.
Speaker 6: So there's there's all sorts of them.
Speaker 2: Really did I did notice that It's a shame that
Speaker 2: my my wife isn't able to get back into their
Speaker 2: quirining because this is this is up her alley. But
Speaker 2: there is some how do I put this like gender
Speaker 2: identity love thing because one professor, the one that gets
Speaker 2: a verbal beating on around around or at chapter ten,
Speaker 2: like where I left off, goes by by they I've
Speaker 2: seen it a few more times. And is that something
Speaker 2: that you purposefully have written?
Speaker 6: Yes, they are, I.
Speaker 7: Think again, because it is a fantasy world. I was
Speaker 7: very interested in making a world that where gender is
Speaker 7: a little bit more fluid. They use in this world,
Speaker 7: you know, a plethora of there's a plethora of gender
Speaker 7: identities and pronouns that are used. So there are characters
Speaker 7: that explore that in this world, or I guess represent that.
Speaker 6: But I don't know.
Speaker 7: I explore might not be the best word because I
Speaker 7: don't go into that necessarily as a storytelling aspect, But
Speaker 7: they are you know, fully slush out characters that kind
Speaker 7: of just exist and do their thing. But yes, a
Speaker 7: gender is gender and sexuality both are very, I guess,
Speaker 7: very different from in our society, at least in how
Speaker 7: we kind of have the the dichotomy and the binary
Speaker 7: that we adhere to a lot of the time.
Speaker 6: They don't necessarily have to.
Speaker 7: Because it is a fantasy world, and it's my fantasy world,
Speaker 7: and I'm a queer woman, so I wanted to make
Speaker 7: a very queer friendly world where people have magic and
Speaker 7: people are just people in all shapes and sizes and pronouns,
Speaker 7: and are just you know, getting up to mischief and
Speaker 7: mayhem and magic as.
Speaker 2: They are the best triple.
Speaker 8: And there is mischief, mayhem and magic.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I do. I do like that, And
Speaker 2: I guess what I like most about it is how
Speaker 2: casual you have written it in and because nowadays, in
Speaker 2: you know, regular society, Gosh, I do wish I could
Speaker 2: just live in those books sometimes there's so much fuss
Speaker 2: about it, or at least online. I don't know how
Speaker 2: that is in the real world, if you know, and
Speaker 2: you know it comes with I'm Dutch and I know
Speaker 2: that here it does live but not as much as
Speaker 2: it seems to be in the States. So it's very,
Speaker 2: I want to say, very refreshing, how casual you are
Speaker 2: about it, Like you're not making a big deal about it.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, they are, they're them, They're a you know,
Speaker 2: a character in this book, who are you know? Who
Speaker 2: do magic? And that's that's really It's like it's it's
Speaker 2: part of them, but it's not like the main thing.
Speaker 2: And I do find it very refreshing. I gotta saying,
Speaker 2: you know, from all the buha and fuzz that everybody
Speaker 2: always makes about it, it's just like, yeah, this and
Speaker 2: that's it, but that's not what it's about, right.
Speaker 7: And I think part of the reason that that's not
Speaker 7: what the story is about is because I am a
Speaker 7: cis gender woman. So I don't really feel like that's
Speaker 7: my story to tell, to like go in and delve
Speaker 7: into the nuance of those topics, because that's just that's
Speaker 7: not my personal reality. And I wouldn't want to take
Speaker 7: those stories away from the people who have them as
Speaker 7: their lived experience. But obviously people, as I said, of
Speaker 7: all you know, shapes and sizes exist in our world,
Speaker 7: and I think.
Speaker 6: They should exist in fantasy.
Speaker 7: Too, and you know, they have their own stories and
Speaker 7: they have their own wants and desires and motivations, and
Speaker 7: so that was kind of as I was building characters,
Speaker 7: it was just very natural. I think also because another
Speaker 7: reason that it isn't necessarily a huge focal point in
Speaker 7: the story is because in this world gender is so
Speaker 7: fluid and it's just an accepted thing. So there's not
Speaker 7: really there's never really going to be a big hella
Speaker 7: baloo made out of it because in that world, or
Speaker 7: somebody is like, oh, these are my pronouns. That's just
Speaker 7: what people use. There's no there's no like, oh but
Speaker 7: what about this, Like everybody is just kind of comfortable
Speaker 7: and aware and we'll just roll with it like that's
Speaker 7: that's a big part of their culture or just in
Speaker 7: general in this world. So yeah, I was as I
Speaker 7: was making the characters, that was something that just I
Speaker 7: kind of went with what felt most natural for each character,
Speaker 7: and you know, so there it is. It is very
Speaker 7: casual for I think a lot of reasons because I
Speaker 7: just and I think it's also good for people to
Speaker 7: get representations sometimes that is just showing people living their
Speaker 7: lives like people of various backgrounds and ability and gender identity, sexuality,
Speaker 7: like just living their every day lives and that every
Speaker 7: day lives might have murder, mysteries and magic, but you
Speaker 7: know it is they're just there and they don't have
Speaker 7: to you know, be a lesson or be you know,
Speaker 7: some beacon of representation.
Speaker 6: They can just be people.
Speaker 7: And that was kind of what I was trying to
Speaker 7: focus on when I was writing them as just people
Speaker 7: being people. Yeah, because that is really, at the end
Speaker 7: of the day, that is what people are.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's it's about the story. It's about
Speaker 2: the magic. It's about the Avengers. It's not about them.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you know they go through those avengers,
Speaker 2: they practice the magic, but it's not about them. You
Speaker 2: said you were finishing up your second book, second book
Speaker 2: in the series. Can you was a little about that
Speaker 2: or is it like really no.
Speaker 7: It's I can't say too much about it because some
Speaker 7: things aren't set in stone yet, so there's a lot
Speaker 7: about it that might still change. But it does follow
Speaker 7: Rose at another year at Done Hollow, and this time
Speaker 7: with a magical tournament taking place. So there's some other
Speaker 7: magical schools that come into the picture, and some other
Speaker 7: forms of magic that we get to explore through some
Speaker 7: new characters, and there are still the ghosts and the
Speaker 7: necromancy and a little bit of that horror element as well.
Speaker 6: Nice, So that does come back. But beyond that, I.
Speaker 7: Don't want to say too much more because I don't
Speaker 7: want to spoil the ending for you, Envy.
Speaker 6: You know, some of that stuff might change from book one, sorry,
Speaker 6: from book two, like from where it is now.
Speaker 7: But I will say that it is a little a
Speaker 7: little darker and a little sexier than Book one.
Speaker 6: Is kind of the vibe for book two.
Speaker 2: Okay, so close the blinds and turn off the big lights.
Speaker 7: Yeah, my close family is not allowed to read book two.
Speaker 8: We'll put it that way, okay, Okay, get a little smutty, okay.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So in the book one it is so this is
Speaker 6: adult fantasy.
Speaker 7: It's labeled as adult, and book one, I think a
Speaker 7: lot of people are look it reads a little bit
Speaker 7: ya because they are I mean, they're younger, they're in
Speaker 7: college and everything. It earns it's adult rating. In book two,
Speaker 7: so that is why the whole series adult.
Speaker 8: Okay, yeah, well then I know my wife's gonna love it,
Speaker 8: and probably most of my female audience.
Speaker 2: I definitely have some friends who are gonna absolutely.
Speaker 7: If they're Romanticy fans, they hopefully will be fans of well,
Speaker 7: hopefully the whole series, but book two really is geared
Speaker 7: more they're Romanticy people.
Speaker 2: I'm actually I'm gonna at least send the link to
Speaker 2: your book. I'm gonna send it over to my sister.
Speaker 2: She's not, like, really a magical practitioner, but she does
Speaker 2: love a good story. And I think since she is,
Speaker 2: what is she a believe? She doesn't I mean anyway,
Speaker 2: she's some sort of sexuality as well. I don't, I don't,
Speaker 2: I don't know. She's my sister, I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: busy myself with that. But she's very very open minded
Speaker 2: and free thoughts, you know, gen Z. Of course, I
Speaker 2: do think she'll she'll definitely like it. I mean, I
Speaker 2: know my wife is going to absolutely just devour the books.
Speaker 6: That's such a compliment.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, absolutely, any plans for like another series, like
Speaker 2: are you are you going to make writing your your thing?
Speaker 2: Or is she's going to be more of a psychs project?
Speaker 7: I mean, hopefully hopefully I can make it work full time,
Speaker 7: that would be ideal. I do have plans for I
Speaker 7: don't know about future series, but definitely future stories sometimes
Speaker 7: set in the same world to explore different parts of
Speaker 7: the larger world that dun Hollow is set in, rather
Speaker 7: than I think in this book it's a very contained setting.
Speaker 6: You're really just at dun Hollow. You don't get to
Speaker 6: explore much else.
Speaker 7: So I definitely have some thought and story ideas and
Speaker 7: plans around that. I do have another project that I've
Speaker 7: just started working on now that I've completed my edits,
Speaker 7: but I really can't say that much about that one
Speaker 7: because it is very very early days.
Speaker 6: So yeah, that's definitely there's more in the works. After
Speaker 6: I read these stories.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I'll just have to have to keep
Speaker 2: an eye on it. So you're the plan is to
Speaker 2: really like do more of a world's expansion, because we
Speaker 2: do hear about the the other kingdoms, So is it going.
Speaker 8: To be like more more worlds?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I would love to.
Speaker 7: I mean, it really depends on what I'm able to write,
Speaker 7: what it is selling in the market at the time,
Speaker 7: you know, that kind of thing, So very much depending
Speaker 7: on that. But I do have a lot of ideas
Speaker 7: that are set in various times throughout the world, so
Speaker 7: some of them will There's a lot of little throwaway
Speaker 7: lines actually in this book that I tossed in there
Speaker 7: because there are other story ideas that I have and
Speaker 7: they are meaningless to anybody but meet at this point,
Speaker 7: but I would love to explore them more and tell
Speaker 7: more stories about that so that it really does feel
Speaker 7: like a very interconnected, lived in world that has like
Speaker 7: its own history and everything. Because I am a giant
Speaker 7: history nerd and a giant language nerd, Like I'm all
Speaker 7: about linguistics, so I do have like languages and histories
Speaker 7: and cultures and magic systems made up for all of
Speaker 7: these different places in the world, and.
Speaker 6: I may or may not, you know, get to explore
Speaker 6: those so hopefully fingers crossed.
Speaker 2: Oh so you have the world like build already, you
Speaker 2: just have to get it down on paper.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the ideas stage. I'm great at the ideas stage.
Speaker 7: It's the drafting and editing and actually getting a book
Speaker 7: written that well, we'll have to see about. But yes, yeah,
Speaker 7: there's there's a whole there's a whole world to explore
Speaker 7: in the larger setting of this book.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, I am very much looking forward to finishing
Speaker 2: the book. I think you do.
Speaker 8: I don't really have any plans for tomorrow.
Speaker 2: So yeah, if I don't finish the book by tonight already, well, if.
Speaker 6: You do finish it by tonight, I will take that
Speaker 6: as a huge compliment.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a chapter ten. Looking at the pages,
Speaker 2: I believe I'm on about a third. So yes, the.
Speaker 6: First half of the book is much longer than the
Speaker 6: second half.
Speaker 7: So once you hit I think click page, the chapters
Speaker 7: get a lot shorter. There's a lot more packed into
Speaker 7: You're through the longest part already.
Speaker 2: I think I did notice that in the first couple
Speaker 2: of chapters are really setting the scene and kind of
Speaker 2: building up the characters and the relations between the characters,
Speaker 2: setting up the spooky ghost the gross stuff.
Speaker 7: Really yeah, the ghosts are probably way spookier than they
Speaker 7: need it to be, like Bay, grosser than they needed.
Speaker 6: But I had a lot of fun writing the scenes.
Speaker 2: Oh I bet, I bet, I'm actually streaming this life.
Speaker 2: I wasn't intending on doing this life, but I really
Speaker 2: got a got the question in the in the chat,
Speaker 2: where can we find your book or books? With time?
Speaker 7: So I do have a website that should have all
Speaker 7: of the links updated hopefully. Also, I'm so the website
Speaker 7: is Emma McDonald author dot com.
Speaker 6: And then I'm also on.
Speaker 7: Instagram under I think it's I'm a McDonald underscore author actually,
Speaker 7: and that has ma link tree with all of the
Speaker 7: links in various places that you can buy the books
Speaker 7: depending on what country and region you're in and where
Speaker 7: it might be available.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, I was fortunate enough to get
Speaker 2: a copy in in my email. But it's it's it's
Speaker 2: worth it's so for that is am I McDonald's author
Speaker 2: dot com. Yes, awesome, And.
Speaker 7: That's an AC for McDonald because sometimes people spell it mc.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean Americans, you know, that's the
Speaker 2: only McDonald that they know.
Speaker 6: That's true.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I get I feel like I did that a
Speaker 7: lot because I'm in the States and people are always
Speaker 7: misspll it.
Speaker 8: So that might just beive me think awesome, Well I am.
Speaker 2: I'm definitely going to keep an I out, definitely going
Speaker 2: to finish book one. Any idea of when you're gonna
Speaker 2: be publishing book two. I know you're like you're still
Speaker 2: in the editing phase, which is the siest face of all.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not fun.
Speaker 7: I think I don't have an exact day, but I
Speaker 7: believe the goal is to have it out by October
Speaker 7: of twenty twenty five, so first one year after book
Speaker 7: one came out, so I think sometime just in time
Speaker 7: for Halloween next year.
Speaker 6: I guess this is what I would say.
Speaker 2: Of course. Of course, that was a question that I
Speaker 2: had in my mind, like did you specifically pick October?
Speaker 7: That was not me, That was the publisher and the
Speaker 7: marketing team decided when it was going to be published.
Speaker 7: So I think they probably figured witchy spooky story a
Speaker 7: perfect time for Halloween. So that wasn't my choice, but
Speaker 7: I think that was an intentional choice.
Speaker 2: I mean they yeah, they did.
Speaker 8: They did right, They did catch the vibe. Yeah, So
Speaker 8: is there anything that you wanted to tell us?
Speaker 2: Anything that I should have asked?
Speaker 6: Maybe that's a loaded question. I can't think of anything
Speaker 6: off the top of my head.
Speaker 7: I feel like we've covered all things witchy and writing
Speaker 7: processes and.
Speaker 6: Books one and two. I feel like that covers all
Speaker 6: the big things.
Speaker 5: Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean once you're once book two is published,
Speaker 2: you are of course more than welcome to come back on.
Speaker 2: I would love to also promote your your book and hopefully,
Speaker 2: you know, turning into a series, and I'm actually reading
Speaker 2: like kind of a girly book. You know. Also how
Speaker 2: you described Wren, it's like every girl's every girl's dream,
Speaker 2: you know, Carrie, just you know, handsome and every girl
Speaker 2: wants him, and every guy wants to be him, and it's.
Speaker 6: All the guys want him to everybody wants.
Speaker 2: I mean, the way you describe him, I can't blame them.
Speaker 2: I really can't blame them, and I'm I'm astray, dude,
Speaker 2: but even I'm like, Okay.
Speaker 8: I get it, I get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, No.
Speaker 5: This was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was great. I'm gonna get right back to reading.
Speaker 6: I have to no greater compliment than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know for sure. I still have to do
Speaker 2: another another life stream and room room reading with you
Speaker 2: in a moment, but after that's straight reading. I'm keeping
Speaker 2: my phone on side, and then it's gonna I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna say, I'm gonna ignore the wife. But I shouldn't
Speaker 2: be doing that. Maybe I don't go that far invoke
Speaker 2: the wrath of the fire. Fay. No, thank you, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: so thank you very much for coming on. This was
Speaker 2: great having Yeah, which you writer, there are too few
Speaker 2: of those.
Speaker 7: Well, hopefully there'll be more of us in the future.
Speaker 7: If that's john revis it gets more.
Speaker 8: Popular, well you're setting a bar, that is, that is
Speaker 8: for sure.
Speaker 5: Thank you?
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2: And yeah for everyone who has been watching. For everyone
Speaker 2: who has been listening, thank you so much. Do visit
Speaker 2: her website Emma McDonald author dot com. And it was
Speaker 2: Emma McDonald underscore author on Instagram.
Speaker 6: Yes, I can confirm that for you quickly.
Speaker 7: I feel like I should know that off the top
Speaker 7: of my head, but unfortunately I do know.
Speaker 5: It is. Yeah, m A.
Speaker 7: McDonald underscore author on Instagram and that has all of
Speaker 7: the links listed in my bio for anybody interested.
Speaker 2: Yes, I found you. I'm gonna follow right away. So
Speaker 2: why am I reading these kind of books? And I
Speaker 2: actually I'm actually liking it. I keep surprising this though.
Speaker 2: Yeah again, thank you everyone for more than we do
Speaker 2: with the Gray Armed Pagans and The Grand Pagans Podcast.
Speaker 2: Go to our website ww dot Grey Armed Pagans dot com.
Speaker 2: Don't forget to like, share, subscribe, leave something nice in
Speaker 2: the comments, you know, do it of your own world
Speaker 2: building in the comments, because why not, you know, or
Speaker 2: if you they can say what.
Speaker 7: School they'd like to go onto. There is actually a
Speaker 7: quiz for that as well. Yeah, I actually will put
Speaker 7: that in my like tree so people can access that
Speaker 7: if they would like to.
Speaker 6: There is a quiz you can find out where you
Speaker 6: would land Dunholm.
Speaker 2: Well, I know my wife is going to take that
Speaker 2: quick right away because she can't stop taking those Harry
Speaker 2: Potter quizes. I do love her, but sometimes anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thank you again. I'm definitely going to finish the book.
Speaker 2: I am looking forward to part two already, even though
Speaker 2: I haven't finished this one. Yeah, when you actually finished one, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll definitely.
Speaker 8: I'll leave it like a review. Can I do that
Speaker 8: on your website as well?
Speaker 6: Leave on good Reads or story graph? I don't know
Speaker 6: what you prefer to use. I just love to get
Speaker 6: a review there.
Speaker 2: I should have an account on good Reads, so I
Speaker 2: think that's most easiest, awesome. No, when I have finished
Speaker 2: it by tomorrow morning, I I'm probably gonna have to
Speaker 2: have it sync in a bit first because it's I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm getting there even chapter tens like things are you know,
Speaker 2: we're getting there. Yeah, thank you all so much again.
Speaker 2: This has been an amazing and I am. Yeah. I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to having you on again when you have
Speaker 2: finished part two. So until then, everyone, Yeah, have a
Speaker 2: good evening, have a good day, have a good wherever
Speaker 2: you are, whatever you are, and I will catch you
Speaker 2: all next time. Bye bye.
Speaker 4: This was yet another amazing episode of the Greyhorn Pagans podcast.
Speaker 4: We thank you all for watching.
Speaker 2: We thank you all for listening.
Speaker 4: Remember to like, share, subscribe, and hit that notification bell
Speaker 4: so you will be notified whenever we.
Speaker 6: Upload something new.
Speaker 4: Support us on Patreon for early access and for everything
Speaker 4: else that we do with the tribe. For everything else
Speaker 4: that we do with the podcast, find us on www
Speaker 4: pagans dot com.
Speaker 6: For now, we thank you, and until next time,