Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where
we left off with a Michael Thomas interview with the
OIG inspectors. Question okay, and with the round you also
don't need to speak with them. You just have to
make sure that they're in there and they're alive, Thomas,
just make sure. Yeah, for the round, just make sure
that they're in there. Question okay? And at all times
do two officers needed to do the rounds and the counts?
Answer supposed to be yeah. Question. And what's the primary
purpose of conducting counts and rounds Thomas, to make sure
there's a body inside the cell? Question okay, And like
you said, no one has escaped Thomas, Yeah, make sure
somebody's in there. Question. Now, are cell counts and rounds
documented Thomas? Yeah? Question okay? And do the CEOs sign
documents after they conduct rounds and counts? Tom? Yes? Yes. Question. Now,
in this case, from twelve am to eight am, there's
two people that are assigned to the shoe correct Thomas, yes, question,
and two people have to actually conduct the rounds correct Thomas, yes. Question.
So if you and Noel are the only two officers
in the shoe? Were you both responsible for documenting the
round sheets and the count slips? Thomas documenting the count slips,
not the round sheet. I mean, if I'm not mistaken,
there's no direct responsibility. Whoever wants to do it or
do it. It's not assigned or numbered that has to
do this or number has to do that. The only
thing that we have to do is sign a count slip.
As far as signing a round sheet, he gets cut off.
So both have to sign the counts. But for the
round sheets, if one person signs it, are they basically
signing for both of you? Thomas? Yeah, if you're going
to they sign it for Bothes, So both people are
responsible for that signature. For the rounds, Thomas, Well, because
I sign it, she can sign it. It doesn't make
a difference. Question. But she's signing on behalf of the
both of you, Thomas signed that the rounds weren't completed. Yes,
question okay? And what do you do with the documents
after they're signed? So let's talk about rounds first. After
the round sheets are signed, can you just explain to
me what a round sheet is? Do you keep everything
on one document Thomas, for all three shifts are all
on one document. Question, so starting on each date from
twelve am he gets cut off by Thomas. If it
says twelve am, I can't remember the exact date. It
should start from one or maybe it's twelve oh one
and continue on. Question okay, and what about count? Sorry?
What do you do with those sheets after your document?
The thirty minutes Thomas cuts them off? They stay there.
I guess they get sent to the lieutenant's office at
the end. They get sent to the lieutenant's office at
the end of the day. Question okay, And who collects them? Thomas,
Internal usually collects them. Question and what is internal? Thomas,
how do you explain internal? The staff member that rides
up the elevator and at the end of the day
you collect five security sheets, round sheets, a bunch of
different paperwork he gets cut off? Is internal like part
of control? Thomas? No, it's a person in an elevator
because inmates can't ride the elevators by themselves because we're
in a high rise. Question okay, Thomas, So it's not
like a compound center. So the officer on that usually
collects all the rounds. If somebody else hasn't done it.
The officer on the elevator will usually do it, which
is called internal question. Is it a lieutenant or an
officer or either? Answer by Thomas, it's an officer. Question,
it's an office okay. And do you call anyone with
the numbers for either counts or rounds? Thomas? You call
control center? Question? Do you call them or did they
call you? Thomas? No, you call them? Question you call them?
And how do you call in the control center? Do
you ask for someone? Thomas? No, you call CNA. I
forgot and don't ask me what CNA stands for. Because
you have a control center and then you have another
person and if it's still two, because it used to
be one at a time, but you have the control
center and then another person in there, and the person
is called CNA, and you would call them and they
would have a sheet they would call for the count
that they could verify for the count question. Is it
just for the counts not for the rounds? Thomas, it's
just for the counts? Question? Okay? When you call, do
you give them a number? Thomas? Yeah, you call and
give them a number? Question okay? And is it just
one overall number? Thomas, Yeah, it that's an overall number
question for the shoe, so it would be you wouldn't
say per tier Thomas. No, No, they just say one
base count of the whole shoe. Question okay, So on
August tenth, during your shift from twelve am to approximately
six thirty three am, when did you conduct rounds in
the shoe? Thomas on August tenth, I didn't question. No
rounds were conducted. Thomas, No, I don't recall doing any rounds.
Question okay. When did you conduct cells during your shift
in the shoe? On August tenth? Thomas sells question, sorry,
cell counts? My bad? When did you conduct the counts
during your shift? Thomas? I didn't question, You didn't okay,
and didn't know well Thomas, No, she didn't question. No,
she didn't. So no one conducted rounds or counts on
August tenth, twenty nineteen, mister Thomas, No on my shift,
no question, okay, prior to six thirty three am. On
August tenth, twenty nineteen, when was the last time you
conducted a round within the shoe? Mister Thomas I he
gets cut off. Would you have conducted rounds on August ninth,
twenty nineteen, Thomas, yeah, prior the day the day prior question,
and do you recall if you actually conducted any rounds
that day? Thomas, I probably did it for the rounds
and then my counts. I probably did a couple there. Yeah,
question a couple Thomas. I know I did my count
I don't know how many rounds that I did. Question Okay,
do you know if you did the twelve am, the
three am, and the five am Thomas, Yeah, I would
assume I did. Yes. Question, So if we go back
to the video, we'll be able to see that you
did those Thomas, You'll see if I did it. Question
all right, so your belief is the August ninth, you
did actually conduct those rounds. Thomas, I would assume I
did my counts. Yes. Question. Okay, we're all in the
rounds that were documented conducted on August ninth. Thomas, I
don't know. I don't know. Question. Would you guess that
they weren't, Thomas, I guess that they were before anything
else before I said that they weren't, I would guess
that they were. Some rounds were probably conducted. Question. Okay,
some were conducted, so maybe some weren't, Thomas, Maybe some wasn't.
Nobody's perfect question? Okay, all right, question one person has
to do the round. Where's the notebook? Thomas, that's the
round sheet question? Okay, So this is August tenth, twenty nineteen.
The round sheet chose twelve through it was only signed
up until six six thirty, different dates, different tiers. Okay,
can you just explain? Are these is this for the
overall shoe and the different tiers listed on it? Mister
Thomas the yes question? All right? Now he gets cut
off by Thomas. It's not labeled at different tiers. No,
it's not labeled at different tiers. Well, yes, each paper
is a different tier. Question. Yes, So like this says
Tier G, that one is Tier H Thomas. Yeah, question
correct Thomas, each thing's a different tier, question tire k Thomas,
No tiar L question, that's a different count. Okay. So
these are what's signed after a round is conducted, Thomas. Yeah.
Question all right, and these are signed, but none were
actually conducted, Is that correct? Thomas? Yes? Question Okay, are
any of these signatures actually yours? Thomas? No question? Okay,
So whose signature? Whose initials are these? Thomas, it's Noel's question.
All right, but as you mentioned before, you are both
actually responsible for signing. Thomas. No, we're both not responsible.
Question I know, but responsible for Thomas cuts them off signing,
he gets cut off conducting them. Thomas. Both are supposed
to be conducting. Yeah, both are responsible for conducting. Question. Okay,
so why didn't you guys conduct the rounds? Thomas? I
couldn't tell you. I was tired that day. As you
can see you by the paper, I do a lot
of overtime. I was just tired, just exhausted that day. Question. Hum,
all right, can you just initial that date? Sir? Thank you?
And you said that you also didn't conduct any of
the cell counts on the shoe on August tenth, twenty nineteen. Correct, Thomas,
cell counts? What do you mean sell counts? Question? The counts?
So that was the rounds? These are the counts Thomas counts? Yes? Question, Sorry,
the inmate counts. I don't know why. Somebody wrote, Okay,
so the twelve am, three am, five am, none of
those were conducted, Thomas, No, question? Are the the three
where they? Can you just tell me what it is
we're looking at here? It looks like, this is the
overall twelve am count. Thomas cuts them off. Institution count. Question,
So this is the institution count and this is for
all three of those counts. Twelve am, three am, five
am Thomas, yes. Question. All right, awesome, mister Mitchell, who
is a lawyer and the number doesn't change or anything? Thomas, no, Mitchell, okay,
all right. So is that the time of the count Thomas, No,
that's the time of the counts on either one of them.
That's not the time of the counts. Question. Look at
the bottom, Thomas, Yeah, the time when it was printed.
The time it was printed question at the top and
at the bottom is the time of the count? Thomas? Yeah?
What time? Question? The first one was at twelve forty
nine was when it would have been cleared? Is that correct? Thomas? Yes? Question,
And then this one would have been three. It looks
like Thomas three twenty four. Question three twenty four. I
don't know what the three nineteen on here means, Thomas,
it means good verbal GV means good verbal. Question. Oh, okay,
so good verbal at three nineteen Thomas clear, accounted question.
And the next one was at five thirty. So that's
the overall count. Can you just tell me what are
these pages? Thomas? That's the hospital which is the suicide room.
That means that three inmates were out of their cell
that were down in the suicide room. Question Okay Thomas,
I mean those four inmates. Question. And what about this?
What's that? Thomas? That's just the paperwork that's in the
computer system saying that they were taken from one place
to another. Question Okay Thomas, they were taken from their
cells to the hospital. Question okay. And these are the
actual count slips, Thomas, these are the actual account slips.
Question all right? Can you find which count slips were
the ones used from the shoe on August tenth? Thomas,
I would say, Za, question. I think it might be
the next page. Okay, So that's Za, the very last page.
And two signatures are those? Thomas mine and Noel's question
you and Noel? Okay? And you actually did sign this Thomas, yes?
Question okay? And it says eight ten nineteen. And what
does that time? Say Thomas twelve? Oh one question? Who
would have filled that part out? Thomas? He gets cut off.
Can you tell Thomas, Yeah, that looks like my handwriting. Question?
So your handwriting would have filled that out, all right,
And did you have a conversation with Noel at the time, Thomas, No,
I don't recall any conversation with her. Question. You don't recall.
So was it like, hey, we're tired, let's just fill
this out. Thomas, I don't recall. It could have been
I don't recall saying that, but it could have been
something to that nature. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap
up right here, and in the next episode dealing with
the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
All of the information that goes with this episode can
be found in the description box.