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Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where

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we left off with a Michael Thomas interview with the

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OIG inspectors. Question okay, and with the round you also

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don't need to speak with them. You just have to

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make sure that they're in there and they're alive, Thomas,

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just make sure. Yeah, for the round, just make sure

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that they're in there. Question okay? And at all times

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do two officers needed to do the rounds and the counts?

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Answer supposed to be yeah. Question. And what's the primary

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purpose of conducting counts and rounds Thomas, to make sure

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there's a body inside the cell? Question okay, And like

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you said, no one has escaped Thomas, Yeah, make sure

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somebody's in there. Question. Now, are cell counts and rounds

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documented Thomas? Yeah? Question okay? And do the CEOs sign

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documents after they conduct rounds and counts? Tom? Yes? Yes. Question. Now,

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in this case, from twelve am to eight am, there's

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two people that are assigned to the shoe correct Thomas, yes, question,

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and two people have to actually conduct the rounds correct Thomas, yes. Question.

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So if you and Noel are the only two officers

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in the shoe? Were you both responsible for documenting the

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round sheets and the count slips? Thomas documenting the count slips,

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not the round sheet. I mean, if I'm not mistaken,

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there's no direct responsibility. Whoever wants to do it or

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do it. It's not assigned or numbered that has to

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do this or number has to do that. The only

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thing that we have to do is sign a count slip.

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As far as signing a round sheet, he gets cut off.

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So both have to sign the counts. But for the

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round sheets, if one person signs it, are they basically

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signing for both of you? Thomas? Yeah, if you're going

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to they sign it for Bothes, So both people are

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responsible for that signature. For the rounds, Thomas, Well, because

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I sign it, she can sign it. It doesn't make

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a difference. Question. But she's signing on behalf of the

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both of you, Thomas signed that the rounds weren't completed. Yes,

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question okay? And what do you do with the documents

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after they're signed? So let's talk about rounds first. After

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the round sheets are signed, can you just explain to

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me what a round sheet is? Do you keep everything

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on one document Thomas, for all three shifts are all

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on one document. Question, so starting on each date from

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twelve am he gets cut off by Thomas. If it

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says twelve am, I can't remember the exact date. It

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should start from one or maybe it's twelve oh one

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and continue on. Question okay, and what about count? Sorry?

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What do you do with those sheets after your document?

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The thirty minutes Thomas cuts them off? They stay there.

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I guess they get sent to the lieutenant's office at

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the end. They get sent to the lieutenant's office at

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the end of the day. Question okay, And who collects them? Thomas,

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Internal usually collects them. Question and what is internal? Thomas,

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how do you explain internal? The staff member that rides

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up the elevator and at the end of the day

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you collect five security sheets, round sheets, a bunch of

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different paperwork he gets cut off? Is internal like part

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of control? Thomas? No, it's a person in an elevator

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because inmates can't ride the elevators by themselves because we're

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in a high rise. Question okay, Thomas, So it's not

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like a compound center. So the officer on that usually

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collects all the rounds. If somebody else hasn't done it.

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The officer on the elevator will usually do it, which

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is called internal question. Is it a lieutenant or an

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officer or either? Answer by Thomas, it's an officer. Question,

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it's an office okay. And do you call anyone with

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the numbers for either counts or rounds? Thomas? You call

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control center? Question? Do you call them or did they

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call you? Thomas? No, you call them? Question you call them?

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And how do you call in the control center? Do

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you ask for someone? Thomas? No, you call CNA. I

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forgot and don't ask me what CNA stands for. Because

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you have a control center and then you have another

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person and if it's still two, because it used to

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be one at a time, but you have the control

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center and then another person in there, and the person

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is called CNA, and you would call them and they

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would have a sheet they would call for the count

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that they could verify for the count question. Is it

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just for the counts not for the rounds? Thomas, it's

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just for the counts? Question? Okay? When you call, do

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you give them a number? Thomas? Yeah, you call and

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give them a number? Question okay? And is it just

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one overall number? Thomas, Yeah, it that's an overall number

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question for the shoe, so it would be you wouldn't

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say per tier Thomas. No, No, they just say one

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base count of the whole shoe. Question okay, So on

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August tenth, during your shift from twelve am to approximately

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six thirty three am, when did you conduct rounds in

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the shoe? Thomas on August tenth, I didn't question. No

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rounds were conducted. Thomas, No, I don't recall doing any rounds.

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Question okay. When did you conduct cells during your shift

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in the shoe? On August tenth? Thomas sells question, sorry,

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cell counts? My bad? When did you conduct the counts

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during your shift? Thomas? I didn't question, You didn't okay,

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and didn't know well Thomas, No, she didn't question. No,

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she didn't. So no one conducted rounds or counts on

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August tenth, twenty nineteen, mister Thomas, No on my shift,

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no question, okay, prior to six thirty three am. On

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August tenth, twenty nineteen, when was the last time you

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conducted a round within the shoe? Mister Thomas I he

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gets cut off. Would you have conducted rounds on August ninth,

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twenty nineteen, Thomas, yeah, prior the day the day prior question,

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and do you recall if you actually conducted any rounds

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that day? Thomas, I probably did it for the rounds

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and then my counts. I probably did a couple there. Yeah,

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question a couple Thomas. I know I did my count

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I don't know how many rounds that I did. Question Okay,

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do you know if you did the twelve am, the

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three am, and the five am Thomas, Yeah, I would

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assume I did. Yes. Question, So if we go back

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to the video, we'll be able to see that you

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did those Thomas, You'll see if I did it. Question

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all right, so your belief is the August ninth, you

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did actually conduct those rounds. Thomas, I would assume I

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did my counts. Yes. Question. Okay, we're all in the

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rounds that were documented conducted on August ninth. Thomas, I

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don't know. I don't know. Question. Would you guess that

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they weren't, Thomas, I guess that they were before anything

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else before I said that they weren't, I would guess

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that they were. Some rounds were probably conducted. Question. Okay,

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some were conducted, so maybe some weren't, Thomas, Maybe some wasn't.

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Nobody's perfect question? Okay, all right, question one person has

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to do the round. Where's the notebook? Thomas, that's the

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round sheet question? Okay, So this is August tenth, twenty nineteen.

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The round sheet chose twelve through it was only signed

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up until six six thirty, different dates, different tiers. Okay,

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can you just explain? Are these is this for the

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overall shoe and the different tiers listed on it? Mister

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Thomas the yes question? All right? Now he gets cut

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off by Thomas. It's not labeled at different tiers. No,

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it's not labeled at different tiers. Well, yes, each paper

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is a different tier. Question. Yes, So like this says

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Tier G, that one is Tier H Thomas. Yeah, question

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correct Thomas, each thing's a different tier, question tire k Thomas,

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No tiar L question, that's a different count. Okay. So

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these are what's signed after a round is conducted, Thomas. Yeah.

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Question all right, and these are signed, but none were

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actually conducted, Is that correct? Thomas? Yes? Question Okay, are

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any of these signatures actually yours? Thomas? No question? Okay,

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So whose signature? Whose initials are these? Thomas, it's Noel's question.

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All right, but as you mentioned before, you are both

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actually responsible for signing. Thomas. No, we're both not responsible.

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Question I know, but responsible for Thomas cuts them off signing,

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he gets cut off conducting them. Thomas. Both are supposed

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to be conducting. Yeah, both are responsible for conducting. Question. Okay,

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so why didn't you guys conduct the rounds? Thomas? I

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couldn't tell you. I was tired that day. As you

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can see you by the paper, I do a lot

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of overtime. I was just tired, just exhausted that day. Question. Hum,

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all right, can you just initial that date? Sir? Thank you?

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And you said that you also didn't conduct any of

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the cell counts on the shoe on August tenth, twenty nineteen. Correct, Thomas,

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cell counts? What do you mean sell counts? Question? The counts?

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So that was the rounds? These are the counts Thomas counts? Yes? Question, Sorry,

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the inmate counts. I don't know why. Somebody wrote, Okay,

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so the twelve am, three am, five am, none of

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those were conducted, Thomas, No, question? Are the the three

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where they? Can you just tell me what it is

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we're looking at here? It looks like, this is the

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overall twelve am count. Thomas cuts them off. Institution count. Question,

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So this is the institution count and this is for

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all three of those counts. Twelve am, three am, five

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am Thomas, yes. Question. All right, awesome, mister Mitchell, who

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is a lawyer and the number doesn't change or anything? Thomas, no, Mitchell, okay,

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all right. So is that the time of the count Thomas, No,

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that's the time of the counts on either one of them.

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That's not the time of the counts. Question. Look at

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the bottom, Thomas, Yeah, the time when it was printed.

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The time it was printed question at the top and

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at the bottom is the time of the count? Thomas? Yeah?

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What time? Question? The first one was at twelve forty

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nine was when it would have been cleared? Is that correct? Thomas? Yes? Question,

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And then this one would have been three. It looks

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like Thomas three twenty four. Question three twenty four. I

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don't know what the three nineteen on here means, Thomas,

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it means good verbal GV means good verbal. Question. Oh, okay,

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so good verbal at three nineteen Thomas clear, accounted question.

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And the next one was at five thirty. So that's

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the overall count. Can you just tell me what are

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these pages? Thomas? That's the hospital which is the suicide room.

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That means that three inmates were out of their cell

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that were down in the suicide room. Question Okay Thomas,

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I mean those four inmates. Question. And what about this?

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What's that? Thomas? That's just the paperwork that's in the

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computer system saying that they were taken from one place

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to another. Question Okay Thomas, they were taken from their

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cells to the hospital. Question okay. And these are the

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actual count slips, Thomas, these are the actual account slips.

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Question all right? Can you find which count slips were

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the ones used from the shoe on August tenth? Thomas,

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I would say, Za, question. I think it might be

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the next page. Okay, So that's Za, the very last page.

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And two signatures are those? Thomas mine and Noel's question

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you and Noel? Okay? And you actually did sign this Thomas, yes?

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Question okay? And it says eight ten nineteen. And what

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does that time? Say Thomas twelve? Oh one question? Who

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would have filled that part out? Thomas? He gets cut off.

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Can you tell Thomas, Yeah, that looks like my handwriting. Question?

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So your handwriting would have filled that out, all right,

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And did you have a conversation with Noel at the time, Thomas, No,

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I don't recall any conversation with her. Question. You don't recall.

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So was it like, hey, we're tired, let's just fill

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this out. Thomas, I don't recall. It could have been

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I don't recall saying that, but it could have been

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something to that nature. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap

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up right here, and in the next episode dealing with

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the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.

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All of the information that goes with this episode can

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be found in the description box.